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mask131 · 1 month

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Greek mythology talk... About the incompatibility of modern sensibilities with Ancient Greek mentality.

Don't worry no rape or sexual talk. We'll do something more joyful... DEATH!

I want to talk about Thanatos, and about how the treatment of this personification in modern media reflects a fundamental fracture between modern mindset (well... modern American mindset let's be honest) and Greek mythology.

There has been a recent streak of interpretations of Thanatos as a fair deity, in all the senses of the term. Beautiful, needed, just, benevolent or neutral. And that Thanatos would be interpreted in such a way is very logical and... yeah kind of needed. We are currently living (or we have lived) a strong cultural shift when it comes to Death - where fiction has done its best efforts to destroy our fear of death, make us accept or embrace it in various way. We have gone through a lot of Death personifications that are all about being respectable or charming or funny or honorable entities: Pratchett's Reaper, Gaiman's Death of the Endless, Guillermo del Toro's Angel of Death, etc, etc... We are living in a culture that works to make Death a neutral principle, a force of nature beyond morality, or a benevolent and pleasant though grim and sad thing. Again, it is something we do need after millenia of us mortals being taught to fear and escape our own mortality, and this same fear or disgust of death causing us to do all sort of horrible things.

That being said... While it makes sense that such a way of thinking would be reverberated onto the Greek Thanatos, it poses a big problem. Thanatos was never meant to be a benevolent, fair or even just entity. That's actually a counter-interpretation of the Ancient character. And that's what I mean by how modern mindset has a hard time grasping the ideologies and philosophies behind the Greek myths.

Ancient Greek society was one of the main reasons behind Europe's fear of death. It is one of the roots of the "death is evil" mindset. And not accepting this is not just denying a reality, but also completely misreading the ancient myths. The Greeks feared death - and as such Thanatos is considered and called a "dreaded" deity, because all the gods associated with mortality were supposed to be terrifying. The same thing goes with Hades: he who must not be named, he who must not be seen. And unlike Thanatos Hades is actually a fair and honorable god - but still he was feared and avoided precisely because he is associated with and rules over death, which itself is a negative principle. Talk about death, you attract death (out of a superstitious mindset) and the Greeks would avoid that at all costs - for their main goal and ideal in life was to live. Remember: eternal life, immortality, was the purest and most perfect form of existence ever (hence why the gods are superiors to mortals). Death was never seen as pleasant or seducing in any way.

More than that: Death was filth. It is something typical of many Ancient societies, but the Greeks had it going VERY strongly. When someone died, it soiled the place and the people. Hence why there was a need for purification. Hence why murderers were more likely to be cursed and banished than rapists for example. Death was filth, a disease, a stain, something foul and vile, which needed to be cleansed. And the mere idea of the dead returning to the world of the living was one of the worst case scenarios ever - which is why Hades' threat in the Persephone myth was taken so seriously. It would not just be an "upset of the balance", it would be the end of humanity because the mere SIGHT of the dead returned would cause the living to go crazy of fright or die of terror or be broken out of shere repulsion. And it would soil the living world forever...

All of that to say: Thanatos, the embodiment of death, was not in Greek mentalities a good guy. There has been a long talk about "Let's un-demonize Hades", I myself participated in this talk, and I couldn't agree more. We cannot ignore that Hades was a feared, dreaded god that was avoided and recognized as a sinister force - but he was not evil, not a bad guy, not a Greek equivalent of the devil. He was just a neutral force of nature, someone performing a dirty but needed task, and someone who we feared because of what he could unleash and thanked for not unleashing this. He was feared and avoided, but the same way a prison warden or an executioner tends to be treated - we don't want to hang out with those people, but when they do their job by the law we thank them for being here. (Well for the executioner, it's debated depending on if you are for or against death penalty but that's another story)

Thanatos on the other hand... Its bad. Thanatos is not fair. Thanatos is not neutral. Thanatos is not just "acting by the law". Thanatos is a deity that is dreaded by all living beings and that terrifies them - and for a good measure! Thanatos is supposed to be all the darkness and horror and ugliness and violence and filfth of death combined into one person. It is Hades that maintains the order and the balance: not Thanatos. In several texts we have Thanatos described as an enemy of humankind, as an entity who delights in ending lives, as a god who enjoys more his job when he gets to kill young people, as an entity who sees his job as a privilege and will never let a mortal escape him without a good fight. Why does Zeus, when he wants to offer a peaceful and glorious end to his son Sarpedon, seds both Hypnos and Thanatos to him, not just Thanatos? Because, the text precises it as such - Hypnos is the one who is "painless". Aka, Thanatos is the pain. Death is a suffering in the Ancient Greek mindset, and this suffering is named Thanatos. Without Hypnos by his side to soothe his evil and veil his brutality, Thanatos only brings horrible diseases and brutal murders and vicious disasters. To die peacefully "in one's sleep"... That's Hypnos, not Thanatos.

And it isn't just Thanatos - he is affiliated with the Keres. And everybody forgets the poor Keres... Thanatos is sometimes described as drinking the blood of funeral sacrifices, making him look like a gruesome vampires. This is because the idea of a death as a bloodthirsty-vampire was typical of Ancient Greece - and can be found back within the Keres. These female spirits were in charge of death on battlefields and during wars - they were the female counterparts of Thanatos, the embodiment of brutal murders and death by weapons and manslaughter. And they were depicted as Erynies-like entities, a mix of vampires, frightening ghosts and corpse-eating birds, with an horrifying appearance, who terrified all those that saw them, and who spent their time ripping away bodies and drinking the blood of the living.

All of that to say, the embodiments of Death in Ancient Greece were deeply unpleasant. It was horror entities, and the "rehabiliation" of Thanatos does not answer the same questions and needs as the rehabiliation of Hades in modern perception of Greek mythology.

I want to insist that I do understand, and I accept and I can agree with a reading of Thanatos as a beautiful, fair, just or benevolent entity. Either as a subversion of Ancient Greek mythology (and it is not because we need to be better taught about the source material that we can't do subversions fit to modern days), either as a simple continuation of our own modern culture. Because we do have an entire aesthetic of the "beautiful Angel of Death" (or the "beautiful Lady Death"), AND we do live in a world where the arts and the philosophies rely on a multi-continental idea that Eros and Thanatos are a couple, a duo, twins. As such, making Thanatos a "dark Eros" is defendable, logical, expected.

But the problem still stays that the idea of Eros and Thanatos as a couple could NOT have existed within Ancient Greece, and this is something that needs to be understood. Eros and Thanatos had nothing to do in Ancient Greece. Aphrodite did not belong to the Underworld. The twins were Hypnos and Thanatos, sons of Nyx the Night. As such, if you want to do something truly faithful to the Ancient Greek mythology, you will need to do Thanatos as a petty, stubborn, evil, wicked, ugly, terrifying, horrifying thing - on various degrees and nuances.

It does not mean one needs to stick to this idea, of course, people can do anything they want in the end cause if we were bound by millenia-old tales when it comes to modern retellings we wouldn't have anything new or creative today... However I do strongly believe that people should be aware and recognize that having a "fair Thanatos" is in itself a subversion and reinvention of the Ancient Greek myths, and is not at all faithful to the Ancient Greek worldview in any way. "Fair Thanatos" can exist, and has existed for a very long time... But to pass it off as the "real" or "original" Thanatos of the Ancient Greeks is a misinformation and a lie. The Ancient Greeks hated and feared death. They thought it was filthy and ugly and disgusting and repulsive. And it might be hard to accept for us today, since we know that death is just a neutral thing and unescapable part of the cycle of life and how the world works... But that was the Greek mindset and the Greek worldview essential to understing Greek mythology - the same way we have to accept that the Greeks believed all waters came from the Ocean which was not an ocean but a gigantic river surrounding the world, or that we have to accept that the Greeks believed Black people were black because they lived in lands devoid of night and thus had their skin burned by the endless sun.

It clashes with our modern knowledge and sensibilities and morals, but if we do not know and inform ourselves about these fact that were basics and fundamentals for Ancient Greek poetry and culture, we will completely misread the Ancient Greek myths.

#greek mythology #greek gods #thanatos #hades #greek myths #ancient greek myths #ancient greece #death #personification of death #keres

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isagrimorie · 6 months

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The way Verna’s eyes shone in the dark made me think of the starlight eyes of Dream of the Endless.

And that’s what I’m thinking of Verna now as another personification of Death of the Endless.

She’s Verna of the Endless but more capricious, she is the Fates and the Fury.

She is Death.

#personification of death #added to the collection #there’s the machine personification too #the fall of the house of usher #verna #death of the endless

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eternal-candle · 1 year

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- E-offering to Lord Thanatos.

Lord Thanatos was the god or personified spirit (daimon) of non-violent death. His touch was gentle, likened to that of his twin brother Hypnos (Sleep). Violent death was the domain of Thanatos' blood-craving sisters, the Keres, spirits of slaughter and disease.

#deitywork #greek mythology #Lord Thanatos #Thanatos #Thanatos deity #personification of Death #witchcraft #e offering #e-offering #cthonic #cthonic deities #cthonic deity

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theniftycat · 9 months

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My three girlfriends.

And yes, they smoke weed.

#personification of death #jean cocteau #orpheus 1950 #le jeune homme et la mort #the sandman #death #maria casares #Marie-Agnès Gillot

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atheostic · 1 month

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The twins who tricked the Maya gods of death

youtube

#Youtube #latin america #latin american mythology #mythology #outwitting death #religion #ted ed #youtube videos #personification of death #mayan mythology

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rebelmeg · 8 months

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Not Yet

by rebelmeg

Chapters: 16/16 Fandom: Iron Man (Movies), Marvel Cinematic Universe Rating: Teen And Up Audiences Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply Relationships: Tony & Death, Minor or Background Relationship(s), Maria Stark & Tony Stark, Ana Jarvis & Edwin Jarvis & Tony Stark, James "Rhodey" Rhodes & Tony Stark, Happy Hogan & Tony Stark, Pepper Potts/Tony Stark, Harley Keener & Tony Stark Characters: Tony Stark, Death - Character, Maria Stark, Edwin Jarvis, Ana Jarvis, James "Rhodey" Rhodes, Happy Hogan, Jarvis (Iron Man movies), Dummy (Iron Man movies), You (Iron Man movies), Harley Keener, Other Characters Mentioned Additional Tags: Near Death Experiences, Personification of Death, Tony Stark Needs a Hug, Hurt Tony Stark, Tony Stark Has Issues, Child Neglect, Accidents, Explosions, Drug Abuse, Mugging, Canon-Typical Violence, Canon movie events, Depression, Tony's Metal Children, References to deleted scenes, Grief/Mourning, Canon Relationships, Afterlife, Hurt/Comfort Summary:

Tony Stark is a particular beloved of Death. There are so many times he returns to her throughout his long and difficult life, hurt and ready and sometimes even willing to finally die. But every time she tells her favorite soul the same thing.

"Not yet."

Chapter 16

Summary: Tony visits Death one last time.

Notes: For @tropetember 22 - major character death

BUT DON'T PANIC! IT'S NOT SAD! It's just the end of a long, good life, and the start of a happy afterlife.

#rebelmeg's fanfic #tropetember #tony stark #personification of death #tonystarklives #he lives a very long and happy life #yes he does finally pass away in this chapter #but it's a positive thing #mcu #fanfic

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deerayled · 2 years

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Ray explains the event which led him to be able to communicate with Death.

Goodness, I can’t believe it took me so long to finally post this second part. I thought a little origin story was in order before we can kick off the funny comics.

#webcomic #webtoon #original story #comic #comedy #death (character)#personification of death #deerayled #funny comic #original work #original character

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mckiwi · 1 year

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Stephen Strange was a doctor, a good one at that– a great one. He and Death had never been on good terms. She took his family from him, so he took his patients’ lives back from Her. He always stood outside of Death’s door, guarding it, keeping it locked away from others as best as he could. But Death comes for everyone, in the end.

He should be dead. By all means, that wreck was supposed to have killed him. As he hung there suspended by nothing but seat belts, with blood rushing to his head and the cold-water biting into his skin, he knew he would close his eyes and never open them again. And yet, he did. If it wasn’t the wreck that killed him, then surely it would be the sight of his mangled hands. Why is he here? Surely Death would’ve taken him when She had the chance. Years he’d spent, cheating Death out of lives She had worked hard for. Well, he wouldn’t be able to cheat Her anymore, not with this new life, anyway. Maybe he had died, after all. Isn’t having nothing to live for just as good as being dead?

Stephen Strange was a sorcerer– definitely not the best, or even close to it, but he was decent. He’d found peace at Kamar-Taj. He found peace in the ancient books he couldn’t yet read and the sound of rain in the courtyard. He could heal his hands here, start his life anew and save people again. Then came Kaecilius and Dormammu.

It was hard to remember his oath to do no harm while staring at a dead man. A man that was dead because of him, no less. Stephen offered up this man to the claws of Death so that his own might be spared another day. Soon followed The Ancient One, accepting Death’s invitation after centuries of denying it. Sometimes he’d wonder why she looked almost relieved.

Stephen Strange was the wielder of the Time Stone. He locked himself in a loop to save the Earth, and all the lives he’d reversed in the process. Life and Death had a certain balance, and he was sure to keep to it. That old man on the street making stir fry? Stephen took a spear through the gut. The woman watching funny cat videos on her phone? Stephen was blasted into atoms. His life, over and over, in exchange for theirs.

During one loop, as Stephen was choking on his own blood, taking his final breaths, he thought he heard Death speaking to him. You don’t have to do this, you know? I could end this. You could end this.

Stephen Strange was a human man– and a human man shouldn’t have been able to experience fourteen million different lives and still be able to function. With each life came a death, then the cycle repeated. Despite what your kind thinks, I’m not cruel. Some see me as a bringer of peace. I could give you that. No, he wasn’t allowed to die. Not yet. The brain is an organ, too. It can kill you just as easily as any other if not properly cared for.

Fourteen million times now he’d robbed Death of his soul. He stood at the door and waited. Taunting, never coming inside, never even indicating that he’d wanted to. Occasionally he’d end up giving Death a few sacrifices, such as the likes of Tony Stark or Natasha Romanoff. Giving up such sacrifices took a toll on Stephen, much more so than he probably even realized himself.

Stephen Strange was a Master of the Mystic Arts, a good one at that– a great one. He and Death had grown closer over the years. She’d cut things short when the pain became too much to bear in the loop with Dormammu. She’d save him the agony of having Thanos shred his soul with the Soul Stone. He often dreamt of Her, and all the ways he’d finally get to be taken into Her arms forever. He’d spent years ripping people away from Her embrace. Now he understood why they’d be so upset once they came back.

In the process of trying to save America Chavez, he’d have to visit an old friend. To dreamwalk into his dead variant’s body, he’d first have to do something. He knocked on Death’s door. She answered with a smile and held out Her hand. He took it.

#mckiwiwrites #doctor strange #personification of death #several other characters are mentioned #talk of death #implied/references suicide #kind of?#car accidents #time loop #dreamwalking #near death experience #dr strange #stephen strange #doctor strange fanfic #dr strange fanfic #stephen strange fanfic #marvel fanfic #marvel #fanfic

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sictransitgloriamvndi · 5 months

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#art #etching #franco prussian war #prussian army #war #macabre #image of death #skeleton #allegory #personification of death #battlefield #henri de grandmaison 1880 #illustration

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letsgethaunted · 1 year

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The Grim Reaper

It is said that when it comes our turns to die we must do it alone... but what if that’s not true? What if Death comforts you in your final moments on earth, patiently waiting to accompany your soul to the next chapter. Or, is Death more sinister? In this episode Nat spooks Aly by researching the existence of the Grim Reaper as a real entity! Does the Grim Reaper claim lives, warn us of impending doom, or assist us to the great beyond? Featuring personal accounts from people who have had real encounters with entities described as "the personification of death" as well as photos and videos of Death itself, this episode is to DIE for.

#The Grim Reaper #Let's Get Haunted #Grim Reaper #personification of death #death #Spotify

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xpi-x-elx · 5 months

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He’s 7 when he sees the man for the first time. Pete's playing in the ocean and a strong current pulls his feet out from under him. He sucks in a gasping breath before his head dips below the surface. It's quiet under the water. Pete watches as the sun's rays dance across the ocean floor, he thinks it's beautiful. He doesn't remember being pulled from the water but his mother's grip is crushing and her sobs rock his body. Over her shoulder, a man is watching him intently. He has dark eyes and sharp features. He holds Pete's gaze for a long moment before turning to walk away.

He's 12 and his mother lies in a hospital bed. Her hand is cold where it rests in his. The steady metronome of the monitor lulls his exhausted body. Pete's mind is still heavy with the fog of sleep when he opens his eyes. The man is there. He's holding his mother's hand, soft eyes trained on her face. Pete blinks and they're both gone.

He's 15 and his father is hitting him. Pete's not sure he’s going to stop this time. It wouldn't be so bad. But then his father is stepping away and Pete slumps to the ground. He's vaguely aware of a door slamming in the distance but his thoughts feel syrupy. Pete's head is heavy. It lolls to the side when he no longer has the strength to hold it up. The man is leaning against the wall, a cigarette pressed to his lips. He watches Pete unblinkingly as smoke swirls in lazy plumes around him. There's a weight to that fathomless gaze and Pete knows who the man is, why he’s here. He's so, so tired, maybe he can finally rest. His lips curve into a smile at the thought. Pete thinks he sees a flicker of something pass over the man's placid face before the world goes dark.

He's 18 and his knuckles are bloody. His father is deathly still beside him. He knows the man is there before Pete lifts his eyes to meet him. The man's face is alight with vicious satisfaction, a cruel smirk playing at his mouth. Pete thinks he's beautiful.

He's 28 and it's hard to breathe. His chest lifts and falls in ragged, painful gasps. The wound in his gut is pulsing to the beat of his heart. Someone crouches down next to him and it takes a while for his eyes to focus on the familiar figure. Pete smiles up at him, “I knew you'd come.”

The man frowns and swallows thickly. “Yes.”

Pete reaches out a trembling hand. The man simply looks at it, unmoving. Pete thinks he sees something akin to remorse cloud the other's eyes. “It's ok, I'm not afraid. Not if it's you.”

The man hesitates only a moment longer before clasping Pete's outstretched hand. The pressure in his chest lifts, the pain is gone. They walk together, hand in hand. It feels like peace. It feels like coming home.

#my writing #major character death #kinnporsche the series #pete saengtham #vegas theerapanyakul #personification of death #child abuse #near death experience #fanfiction #guess the author

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sunshineghostgirl · 1 year

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-a quick thing from a book I will probably never write.

For the first time in a long time Val was thrown back into the memory of her death.

- The medical examiners told Val’s uncle that her death was quick and painless like falling asleep. It might have been if the Dick Bag of Death (DBOD) wasn’t the one assigned to guide her to the after life.

- The asshole know as DBOD, wasn’t there when Val’s soul left her body. She just stood there looking at her cold body.

- She studied each scrape, brush, scar, cut on her body. She fully understand what was going on. Didn’t know where she was. Her uncle and aunt were sobbing and no matter how hard she yelled for them, her screams fell on deaf ears. Val tried to walk over to her aunt but she was rooted in place.

- So she went back to examining herself. Both legs broken, covered in scratches, part of the legs were missing skin all together.

- Her aunt asked the medical examiner a question, he handed her a pair of gloves, she put the gloves on and walked over to Val’s body, taking her nieces hand in hers and just held it. Val felt herself breaking. She remembered how gently her always was with her, Aunt Cass’s hands were always warm. Whenever Val fell, off her bike, tripped over a rock, or was tackled by the neighbors giant dog aunt cass always had her hand encased around Val’s pulling her up and pulling her close. Whenever Val was scared, nervous, sick, aunt cass would hold her hand. For them that’s how they said “I love you, it’s okay, you’re safe”.

- Aunt Cass squeezed Val’s hand three times to say I love you. Val fell to her knees. The one time she needed to feel her aunts hand squeeze hers, when she needed the reassurance that she was safe Val couldn’t feel like. Val’s heart shattered, she couldn’t breathe, the floor swayed under her. Val felt like she would fall even though she was already on the floor.

- Val had read enough to understand that she was dead. Watched enough tv shows and saw enough art to understand that she would never feel her aunts warmth again. Val felt cold, colder than she has ever felt. As if her blood just froze, all life gone from her.

- Val’s uncle Mark walked over to Val’s body tears flowing down his face. Val wanted to comfort them. Tell them that she’s okay, there wasn’t any pain. And tell them “hey I didn’t go to hell right away!” She wanted to make them smile. The no pain was an obsolete lie but Val’s emotional pain over powered her physically she was experiencing.

#tw death #death tw #oc character #my writing #Death and Val #morgue #death #tw morgue #morgue tw #personification of death

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