#book alicent | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

bunnyshideawayy · 9 days

Text

“Rhaenyra and Alicent’s relationship wasn’t equal”

and that is the exact reason the narrative the show presents doesn’t work.

Rhaenyra is a true born princess, a dragon rider, her father’s favored child, and named heir to the throne. Rhaenyra is above Alicent in every way politically until she is married to Viserys and then Alicent is Queen through marriage only, but as we are shown in both show and book canon she takes pleasure in exorcising her power and station as Queen. Alicent in show was a noble born lady who had been aged down and forced to play into the many roles of all of Rhaenyra’s ladies in wait AND given Laena’s part. in the book Alicent is 10+ years Rhaenyra’s senior, known in Jaehaery’s court and then Visery’s through Otto. already we can see no matter how you spin it their relationship would always be imbalanced. they are in completely different classes and held to completely different responsibilities.

presenting their relationship as if it has equal footing serves to take away from the political scheming and ambition of each character and tries to give us this one note story of girl bosses and petty jealousy.

Rhaenyra and Alicent already have a complex and dramatic dynamic, they both have plenty of both justified and unjustified reasons to dislike/distrust each other. they don’t NEED the forced character swapping, age changing, and plot rearranging to give that to them.

this scene in particular was so book canon imo. even with the show age swapping and character changes this scene, the dialogue, everything about it encapsulated the fight between Alicent and Rhaenyra- their political and personal differences, their fight for their family, the scheming afterward with Otto/Daemon. it was possibly one of the most book canon moments in terms of characterization for either of them.

76 notes · View notes

alicentsgf · 1 year

Text

Let's talk in depth about book Alicent. because even though i read the book 3 years ago I didn't engage online about it until the show's release and um. wow. some people have a very different interpretation of her to me. and also... some of those interpretations show a fundamental misunderstanding of the text, a tendency toward indulging the misogyny present in Fire and Blood, or both.

People are saying the writers changed a lot about Alicent's story and 'made her a victim'... they didn't. It was always possible to read the book and perceive that she was in many ways a victim. Honestly the biggest thing they changed was her age, probably to assist the interpretation they'd chosen, but the larger elements all stay the same; in both versions she's worked in service of the crown since she was young (as a type of companion either to Jaehaerys or Rhaenyra) and she and Rhaenyra initially have a good relationship (according to one source in F&B - this supposedly changes when Aegon was born and not named heir). So making it Rhaenyra we see her close with just makes the emotional tethers that might have been there anyway more visible. After all, Rhaenyra Does spare Alicent's life in F&B, and whilst she says it's for Viserys sake, Alicent at that point had been at the very least complicit in the deaths of most of Rhaenyra's children. Rhaenyra having such a strong former bond with Alicent is going to give this event in the show a lot more weight. It's not hard to see why they made this change, because it adds to the tragedy of the story immeasurably.

The fact is everything we see of Alicent in F&B is up for debate to some extent. Like, for example, did she seduce Viserys? of course certain sources tell us yes, but Fire and Blood is brimming with asoiaf-typical misogyny; it all reminds me somewhat of the story of Anne Boleyn, her story molded into something unrecognisable by history in order to make her the instigator. In truth, we have no way of knowing if Alicent wanted Viserys or not, but we do know she probably didn't have to seduce him. She was widely regarded as being the most beautiful woman - it wouldn't have taken a lot for Viserys to notice her. People, characters and readers alike, assume that because she wasn't a good political match he must have been persuaded, but Viserys was a selfish man, (that is indisputable, we see it in many of his provable actions), so it fits with his character to choose a slightly unsuitable wife on the basis of his own lust. The age gap in the show only serves to demonstrate visually the power imbalance that was at least somewhat present in the book anyway. And yes, this like most things in the book is up for interpretation, but I will say this: I seriously do not respect people calling her 'evil'.

The text never presents Alicent as evil. Even in the worst of her actions she is never legitimately shown to revel in the pain and suffering of others. At most you could argue she was ambitious, but I don't even believe that on the basis of one specific thing: it was her, not Otto, who asked Viserys to betroth Aegon to Rhaenyra. This was not a crazy suggestion in the book, as it was presented in the show; they were only a decade apart, and it was the Valyrian custom that the eldest son would marry his eldest sister, as Aegon the conqueror married Visenya. Alicent wanted this without stipulating the expectation that Aegon would rule instead of Rhaenyra. Viserys reportedly dismissed Alicent on the basis of believing she only wanted Aegon a step closer to the throne, and it can be read that way, but personally I don't think so. I think she was exhausting options to try to protect him after she realised Viserys was never going to name him heir.

Ultimately, Alicent would have been stupid to ignore that her children's lives were at stake. Especially in Fire and Blood where she was much less familiar with Rhaenyra. Nothing in Rhaenyra's actions suggested she wouldn't be capable. She reportedly had no affection for her brothers where she doted on Helaena, suggesting she already saw them as threats. She had demonstrated herself willing to accept physical harm to them in favour of her own sons. She was later thought to be at least complicit in the death of her husband Laenor, who had by all accounts been a good, kind husband to her… and then she married Daemon. Even before this he had been an obvious threat to Alicent's children; a violent man who'd always lusted after power, with a known hatred for Hightowers and who'd never been kind to his nephews by Alicent. Even if Alicent didn't believe Rhaenyra capable of murdering her sons, she would have been stupid not to believe Daemon able.

The truth is even in the book this crisis was set in motion by Viserys. Once he'd refused to marry Aegon to Rhaenyra the bomb was built and ticking away, it was only a matter of time. Even if Rhaenyra's heirs had been indisputably trueborn, Aegon and his brothers and any descendants they had would have been symbols for those who wanted to oppose the Crown to rally behind as soon as Rhaenyra or Jacaerys disappointed them, no matter if Alicent's sons had personally bent the knee. The situation only became more dire when it was clear that Rhaenyra's heir was not trueborn.

Fire and Blood isn't even really quiet about Rhaenyra's first three sons being bastards. To me it read like Rhaenys' Baratheon blood allowed those who wanted to believe otherwise to delude themselves, as Viserys does in both versions. After all, in the book Laenor being gay is an open secret. But the thing is… it doesn't even really matter if they were or not. With so many people believing they were bastards, they were pretty much as good as. Eventually, and most definitely after Rhaenyra's death, there would have been some form of conflict. Because if Jace, an assumed bastard, ascended the throne it would throw into question the claims of almost every lord in Westeros, many of whom would have older bastard brothers. and if a bastard who didn't even look targaryen could sit the highest seat in the realm over a trueborn silver-haired son of a king like Aegon, what's to stop the bastard brothers of any lord from laying claim to their seat? Aegon would have become a rallying point for that dispute whether he liked it or not, and Jace would have been forced to dispose of him if he wanted to maintain power.

In light of this, it's really no wonder Alicent repeatedly voices her animosity over Rhaenyra's sons questionable births. It's very telling that in F&B every cruel comment she reportedly makes about or to Rhaenyra references it. and I say "reportedly" because one of the worst of her quotes, her saying 'mayhaps the whore will die in childbirth' about Rhaenyra, people quote as fact… if you do this I will laugh in your face and ask if you read the book. because Alicent did not say that. or rather, if she did, Fire and Blood would not be able to tell us either way because the quote is attributed to her by Mushroom, one of Rhaenyra's supporters who (apart from being a famed liar) was with Rhaenyra on Dragonstone at the time.

The other two quotes used to argue her supposed evilness are from slightly less questionable sources, and honestly, yeah, it does seem likely to me Alicent implied to Rhaenyra her bastard sons' blood was worth less than that of her own trueborn sons'… but at that point, with the horror she'd experienced on account of Viserys upholding Rhaenyra and her sons' questionable claims, her reacting in this way is perhaps cruel and prejudiced, but not evil. And almost justifiably cruel in my opinon; for all she knows the woman she's talking to directly ordered for her six-year-old grandson to be brutally murdered in front of her, her daughter, and her other grandchildren, directly leading to her daughter's madness and later suicide. Was she going to be respectful? Is it fair to expect that from her? This focus on the term 'bastard blood' overshadows the rest of the quote: “Bastard blood shed at war. My son’s sons were innocent boys, cruelly murdered. How many more must die to slake your thirst for vengeance?” Why is Alicent being a bit of a bitch treated as a worse sin than Rhaenyra ordering the brutal murder of a toddler, or at the very least excusing it.

The last quote mentioned to back up claims of alicent's 'evilness' is her telling her granddaughter Jaehaera she should slit the throat of her husband Aegon III in his sleep. By this point it seemed to me Alicent was no doubt consumed by bitterness and would have attacked Aegon herself given the chance, but even without condoning her words or actions we can see how she became like that; all of Alicent's sons are dead and she wants all of Rhaenyra's gone too. Wasn't it "an eye for an eye, a son for a son"? - Rhaenyra's side set the precedent, the idea that it is justifiable to take one innocent life in exchange for another, no matter if its the life of a child who just happens to have been born on the other side of a war.

Alicent by the end of her life had certainly been driven to cruelty in her grief, twisted into something ugly by the world and locked away to rot.

And yet her final words weren't steeped in bitterness or violence. When the fever sets in she accepts death, even welcomes it. She speaks of seeing her children again, and King Jaehaerys. So doesn't that say she was never driven by hatred at all? That there was never any kind of innate evil nature? At least that's my interpretation. This is the same girl who spent her youth reading to a dying king for no clear reward, and felt such affection for him that she mentioned him at the end of her own life, perhaps pining for the time before her marriage. (No doubt in the show she will mention Rhaenyra instead). This is the woman whose daughter and grandchildren visited her with such reliable frequency her grandson's killers knew to wait in her rooms for them.

So what was so evil about her? That she quite understandably saw Rhaenyra and her sons as a threat, and preemptively acted to protect her own? As much as people like to project ideologies onto these characters, neither Alicent nor Rhaenyra's motivations were ideological, that much as clear.

I may have many reservations about House of the Dragon's execution of it, but the decision to present Alicent as a victim of the world she inhabits was not only the right choice, but also kind of the only choice. HotD is presented as objective truth, where F&B is a collection of biased accounts dripping in the misogyny of the men relating them, and so HotD had to be a critique of its own source material. I admit to having my own bias, and my analysis is at least slightly skewed in Alicent's favour because I'm responding to the most negative interpretations of her. And they are all just interpretations. But in my opinion, those adapting the text looked at Alicent and saw her, where clearly many readers didn't. They asked "what if this woman is misunderstood?", "what if this woman had no real choice?", "what if the men of this world just chose to ignore her complexity, because she was a woman?" and those were absoutely the questions to ask.

#alicent hightower #book alicent #house targaryen #house hightower #fire and blood #f&b spoilers #pro alicent hightower #hotd #house of the dragon #hotd meta #anti viserys i targaryen #fire and blood meta #alicent apologist til death #yes even book alicent

775 notes · View notes

radicalsansa · 6 months

Text

TB is claiming Show!Rhaenyra and Book!Alicent in the same universe so I will be claiming Book!Aegon and Show!Alicent (not that Book!Alicent didn't absolutely annihilate everyone but they're different kinds of slay)

#hotd #anti team black #pro team green #house of the dragon #anti rhaenyra stans #anti rhaenyra targaryen #aegon ii targaryen #hotd aegon #aegon targaryen #asoiaf #pro alicent hightower #leave alicent hightower alone #alicent hightower #show!alicent hightower #book alicent

117 notes · View notes

protector-of · 8 months

Text

Portrait of Queen Mother or Stepmother Alicent depending on your Team (I am team neither)

Excuse the horrid calligraphy 💀

#asoiaf #valyrianscrolls #fanart #a song of ice and fire #house of the dragon #alicent hightower #fire and blood #team green #book alicent #she will slay you

50 notes · View notes

thesilverlady · 5 months

Note

Were Alicent and Helaena loved by the Smallfolk?

they weren't hated by all means but loved is an exaggeration and new readers love nothing more than gasping straws. Here's my reasoning:

First and only mention of Alicent being "loved" by the smallfolk as far as I recall was when when she crowned her daughter

"Queen Alicent, beloved of the smallfolk, placed her own crown upon the head of her daughter, Helaena, Aegon’s wife and sister. After kissing her cheeks, the mother knelt before the daughter, bowed her head, and said, “My Queen.”

f&b claim characters like Baelon the Brave, Alicent, Helaena, etc to have been “beloved by the smallfolk” then never explain WHY they were beloved by the smallfolk. This is why I think the only person in f&b that was truly loved by the smallfolk was Alysanne because she actually did shit and and the maesters who were fond of her in later years (as she embraced the faith) wrote for her kindly.

For Alicent, the whole "beloved by the smallfolk" was really just a passing compliment. Had she done a single thing to have evoke worship for them the maesters wouldn't have missed the chance to mention it. In my opinion she was probably passive, so they had nothing to add about it, plus a new queen was to be crowned and attention was shifted on building up Helaena's image for the history books.

Now onto Helaena:

“Though plumper and less striking than most Targaryens, Helaena was a pleasant, happy girl, and all agreed she would make a fine mother.”

^ this is all we know about her. I can buy that she was probably in higher opinion of common born because of the pleasant attitude but to say she was loved by them is again a stretch. The claim only comes because of how the events of the war are narrated - which brings me to the next important thing; how you view the maesters affects how you read every single event from the story.

I've mentioned in the past than I'm very much a maester conspiracy truther for the whole asoiaf verse, and while I don't think everything the maesters mention in f&b is a straight up lie it's obvious to me their wording is carefully chosen to paint a favoring narrative.

I'm in humanities studies; so examining philosophical, religious, political texts and catching propaganda is something I've been very used to hence my attitude towards the maesters in asoiaf/f&b - they're a manipulative organization that seeks power and control. They've been on top for many years once upon a time and they want to go back to those golden days.

Back to Helaena though, since I didn't finish, it's important tor remind that the smallfolk never saw Helaena after b&c, it's once again the maesters who simply tells us about their supposed feelings:

"That it was so quickly believed shows how utterly the city had turned against their once-beloved queen. Rhaenyra was hated; Helaena had been loved. Nor had the common folk of the city forgotten the cruel murder of Prince Jaehaerys by Blood and Cheese, and the terrible death of Prince Maelor at Bitterbridge."

here's few contradictory to this statement:

"Rhaenyra was hated" Yet the maesters earlier confirmed the people in King's Landing cheered when she took over the city.

"Helaena was loved" again makes no mention as to why she loved; what good deeds did she do for them? Why not mention them? simply because they don't exist. Anyone the maesters like is 'beloved' by the smallfolk

"Common folk hadn't forgotten the terrible death of Prince Maelor" Guess who did the terrible death of Prince Maelor? ding ding the common folk.

To highlight the obvious biased, let me include Rhaenyra's reaction to Prince Maelor:

To highlight Mushroom, who loved the queen well, tells us that Rhaenyra wept when Maelor’s small head was placed before her as she sat the Iron Throne. Septon Eustace, who loved her little, says rather that she smiled, and commanded that the head be burned, “for he was the blood of the dragon.”

Do i really need to say it? It's clearly stated: one loved her well and the other little. So what's the truth of this scene?

and you may wonder what this gotta do with the original question? why do the maesters even matter over whether Alicent or Helaena possibly being loved by the common people?

It matters because the first hand accounts one (a septon) favors aegon and the second (a court fool) favors rhaenyra and the two others (orwyle and munkun) are both maesters of the citadel based where? oh right in oldtown, the seat of house hightower