#clone wars meta

[fanfoolishness]

I like to imagine that in the future, people remember the clones. After Palpatine falls for good on Exegol, imagine an explosion of freedom and knowledge in those days after the final defeat: imagine archaeologists and scholars plumbing the depths of Imperial and First Order records, trying to figure out what had happened so it could never happen again. And through it all they find the clones’ story woven into everything, until a new field emerges of Clone Studies, a loose alliance of military history buffs and research biologists and anthropologists and ethicists.

They catalogue the Kaminoans’ research; they review the clone memorials on Coruscant, on Zeffo, monuments as large as a massive wall or as small as a quiet statue, from people throughout the galaxy who were grateful for what they did. They study the great tragedy and betrayal of the chip, finally understanding the scope of Palpatine’s plans and bringing them out into the open, sharing the truth that the clones never chose to betray the Jedi Order and Republic they had served faithfully. They study old war vids and oral histories from people of long-lived species or whose grandparents remembered the clones; they build, memory by memory, a sense of the culture, the camaraderie, the brotherhood, the loyalty. They collect vids of battle songs and in-jokes and an interior language shared among them, springing up over the years.

They find and list their names, self-chosen or given by their brothers: Rex, Fives, Howzer, Echo, Tup, Gregor, Wolffe, Cody, Boil, Waxer, Cut. They study the clones whose differences defined them and knit them into a family whose ties could not be broken, Hunter, Wrecker, Tech, Crosshair, Omega. They study the discarded who nevertheless still had value - 99, Emerie, the clones who were culled in infancy for being wrong. There are specialists who devote their entire branch of study to the only male unaltered clone and his infamous exploits throughout the galaxy, so alike his father’s. They study the years of the clone rebellion, a fight that paved the way for the next wave of fighters and the next after them.

The clones are gone. That is undisputed. Their kind came for a little while, and then vanished, burning brightly; their tale was a tragedy, but one unique in all its seeming sameness. There are conferences and holovids and books. There are debates and research firing up young scholars about a time only their great-grandparents can remember.

In the future, after all the clones are gone, there are still stories.

#the clones #clone wars #the clone wars #the bad batch #Star Wars #clone force 99 #I’m just having feelings okay #Star Wars meta #clone wars meta #bad batch meta #clones

[mamuzzy]

I only wanted to answer in reblog but it got so long i decided to make a separate post. But it had me thinking about media consumerism and how it could affect the open-mindedness for different shows soooo...

Here is a guide to...

HOW TO GET SOMEONE TRAPPED IN THE CLONE HELL

... not entirely a guide but more like an observation.

If we want to look at the problem with the fast-paced media consumer viewpoint, I think starting with the Bad Batch it's actually not a bad idea for someone who never watched Star Wars animated media before. It's sad but cartoons, animations can repulse people to watch things because they link them to child stories, something only a child would watch, also most of the people prefer live action instead of animated stuff. Especially if the said movie/series is quite old. cont. under the cut...

There could be a reason why people are not interested in clones

If a friend, family member, boyfriend/girlfriend/whatever only saw the movies and were not interested in TCW before, had not seen it as a child on TV, they will probably have prejudice against the clones. - They weren't the main characters in the movies therefor we have not seen them interacting that much with the main cast. - But even if you don't know star wars, you will probably know the clones for Order 66, white armored assholes who murdered the jedi aka good guys. And when the movies came out, inhibitor chips weren't in the picture. ---> this observations came while watching TCW with my dad who didn't like the clones because for this exact same reason: the clones basicly serve antagonist without question in a world where rules were set: jedi are good, sith are evil. -> I don't care that it is more complex that. It is what was shown. While he enjoyed the clone-centric episodes, he still stood at his point. They killed the jedi. End of story. - People have different interests :'(((((((

THE CLONE WARS 2003

Why do I recommend this first.

You can always say it's made by the same guy who made Samurai Jack. Strategically speaking Clone Wars 2003 would be a good starting point despite not being canon anymore because TCW is adapting some of the stories shown here. It recaps well what happened between Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith. Also this is the first media where Asajj Ventress and Grievous were introduced, and where you can actually see Grievous in his prime, an absolutely terrifying foe who actually can mop the floor with the jedi. Lots of jedi were introduced here which later also appeared in TCW. Why is this important: Having familiarity with the characters shown in memorable scenes helps that you will recognise them later in other media. Like... Hey it's the jedi dude who stripped in the middle of a fight! Hey, aren't these the same guys who mutated an entire village out of fun who kidnapped Echo??? And so on. TIME: 25 x 5 minutes episodes full of action so it keeps up the interest, and... FORDO. 5 minutes of full clone badassery. While TCW emphasises on the theme that the clones are living, feeling human beings who can die exactly like a human, in CW2003 they are shown like really the badass super soldiers (especially the ARC Troopers) who were bred for war. How much time it takes an episode to watch is an important factor. Because someone who binge watches 10 x 1 hour long netflix series under one day without sleep, drink, eat is not a guarantee that they will be able to sit through 133 x 22 minutes episodes. The sheer numbers will scare them away, nobody has a time watch 133 episodes when you can watch like... 5 different series instead! STORY TELLING COMPARED TO TCW: CW2003 goes for mostly visual story telling instead of talking. It's suspenseful, it's scenic, it's extreme, sometimes silly (rocket-launcher clone in the elevator with zero fuck given is still my favorite) but it's guarantee that you will remember. TCW episodes are varying from episodic to two-to-four episode arcs, it has silly comic relief episodes, it has serious dark episodes, obligatory beach episode, obligatory valentine day episode, obligatory school festival episodes obligatory-just kidding lol , so the lenght of one story can be varying, so is the quality of them. So unless you have a hyperfixation, or are a completionist, or interested enough, the episodes - in psychologycal term -, won't urge you the continue. Because in one 22 minutes episode you got a complete story without cliffhanger it won't make you think, because all the questions asked in the beginning of the episode was answered at the end. It won't rush you to continue, because you know that probably the next episode will be about an entire different conflict. You can stop anytime without the feeling of "just one more episode, just one more episode". Also, it doesn't help that you know how the story will end if you saw Revenge of the Sith. The forementioned uglyness... It took me years to finish TCW. I hated when it came out back in 2009 despite loving Star Wars and CW2003 and only after a decade picked up my interest again, it still took me years to finish it anyway. Back then, I really hated how everything got quickly 3D in neglection of 2D. But can't say it's ugly because it's old, it was ugly when it came out! You really have to force yourself to accept how it looks until you are fine with it, because your eyes got used to it. Also some episodes were boring, not entertaining, I just lost interest and only came back later to continue and I even forgot what happened before. I can't remember most of the arc expect those I was interested in to rewatch it again in the last years. Yes, the quality will improve. Season 7 is beautiful. The visuals of Bad Batch is also beautiful. But between season 6 and season 7, years passed.

THE BAD BATCH

Why do I recommend TBB for someone who ain't got time for shit™:

- TBB season are 16 episodes long. It's friendlier than 133 number wise. - There are only a few main characters to follow. It's important because when there are a large cast of characters, it's easy to get confused who is who and with literal CLONES as main characters, it's hard to distinguish them from each other. I know I can distinguished them, because I'm so fixated on them that every single verbal and non-verbal gesture they make will shoot me into outer space. - The Batch uses popular character tropes, different looks, different voices and tones, so they are recognisable, therefore, you will remember them for the rest of the show. So it will be a chance that you will fall for at least one member of the batch. And then you'll be thirsting mess over one character and eventually you'll be staning all of them, and eventually you will seek out more contents,fanfics, fanarts, headcanons with them that will attract TCW characters or events as well that will lead further deep down into the clone-hell. --> You can start showing the Bad Batch arc TCW where Jesse, Kix, Rex, Cody is also present, so there are plenty of topic and characters to talk about later. Also... Who is this Echo guy, how did he end up here? You can show the Domino Squad episodes, Kamino arc, citadel arc... - This could be a double-edge sword, but TBB are shown resemblance to Delta Squad, Omega Squad and Null ARC troopers. You know Delta Squad from the Video Game, Republic Commando, while the Omegas and Nulls are the main characters of the book series with the same name by Karen Traviss. I say it's double edged, because without these fantastic characters we wouldn't have The Bad Batch, but also I can understand the fans who wanted the Deltas adapted properly instead. - In season 1, the "fillers" add to the story and the characters as well and they won't get episodic-amnesia. (they may have TCW amnesia though... yes, I look at you Echo.) - In Season 1, there is a clear conflict which shadow always lingers even if the plot of the episode does not directly touches it. - Returning characters from TCW like Rex and Gregor could make the consumer ask the questions: who are these guys and why are they important? Rex is cute, is there more episodes with him? Oh yes, my dear prey friend, there is a whole series about him. - I only say season 1 because I'm not entirely satisfied how season 2 were handled while I enjoyed the first one. My hyperfixation for TCW last year literally started with Bad Batch. The trailer was so misleadingly awesome I wanted to watch it before season 2 would come out, but I wanted to finish TCW first (finally!). Season 6 and Season 7 were basicly binge watch and it got me interested again in the previous seasons too.

STAR WARS: THE CLONE WARS 2008 (movie)

Why do I recommend this before TCW - It has Fox - Because sitting through a one-night movie is still easier than watching 133 episodes while maintaining the same quality of the show. - It has Fox - It shows the story how Ahsoka is introduced as Anakin's padawan the first time and we get a glimpse of their initial relationship and dynamic. - It has Fox - Basicly two arc in one movie but the introduced characters stay the same the entire time so you have time to get to know them, recognise them, and later you can remember them. - It has Fox - It has Fox.

TALES OF THE JEDI

It has that one episodes with the clones where they train Ahsoka. Possible questions could be asked: wtf happens at the END? Where is the rest of it? You can instantly show the last arc of season 7. Which would lead to another questions: wtf are the mandalorians, why Maul is here, wtf happening with Rex during O66, why is he hesitating to shoot Ahsoka? Now you can show the Chip conspiracy ARC with Fives! This Fives is a nice guy, is there more episodes of him? Oh boy~

And if they are interested in watching TCW with you..

- Watching together as spending time together usually helps. I think discord also has a function where you can stream movies to others. - You don't have to watch it in the exact order the episodes came out - Show arcs. There are lot of clone centric arcs. I literally collected all the episodes where Echo and Fives are present. --> Dad remembered Echo the whole time and he felt sorry for him. I showed the episodes in such order that his story could be followed easely. ------------- I know. I get it. Every episode is awesome. Every character is awesome. They are. They are all blorbos. They are our blorbos.

#this is probably my longest english written post lol #tcw #clone wars #the clone wars #star wars meta #clone wars meta #star wars #the clone wars 2003 #tales of the jedi #the bad batch #tbb #republic commando #repcomm

[mearchy]

trying to figure out how communications and SIGINT work in star wars

(I’m so fr how the fuck does a comm unit work. someone help)

#i’m no longer able to avoid asking these questions #while writing this godforsaken story #someone help??? #star wars #tcw #the clone wars #gar #grand army of the republic #star wars meta #clone wars meta #mine #my meta

[inky-for-a-bit]

Thinking about that line in the leaked tales of the jedi teaser- "The best way I can protect you is to teach you how to protect yourself" (Anakin is saying this to Ahsoka). Man this line is making me feel things. Maybe it's just the music and visuals (cough cough and hearing Matt Lanter as Anakin again). Or maybe it's the Clone Wars nostalgia because good lord that line makes me think about the Padawan Lost arc. Just thinking about how Anakin's desire to teach Ahsoka to protect herself leads to Ahsoka saying the famous "All I had was your training, and the lessons you taught me. And because of you, I did survive. And not only that, I was able to lead others to survive as well." Just thinking about how we might just see the training that taught Ahsoka to survive not only in that arc, but in the Wrong Jedi arc, and the Siege of Mandalore/Order 66, not to mention through the rebellion era and beyond and forever because Dave isn't killing her off anytime soon lol. And I'm thinking about Anakin, how he needs his loved ones to survive, the sternness in his voice when he says the "train you to protect yourself" line and "again" after Ahsoka is knocked out by the clones. He has to prepare Ahsoka because he knows that she's being thrown out into a war as an inexperienced little padawan and he can't lose her. Anakin has to push her now because he can't bear to lose her. Remember how he dealt with Ahsoka being kidnapped in the padawan lost arc? He would never be able to deal with Ahsoka's loss in general, but especially so if he felt as though he hadn't prepared her well enough. (Imagine how much he probably blamed himself for not training her well enough after she left the Order-) So he pushes her to get up and train again and again even though in the trailer we see Ahsoka failing over and over because he knows he can't always be there to protect her and so he needs to teach her to protect herself. And it all ties back to Anakin's need to protect his loved ones, not only for their sake, but because he isn't able to live with himself when he does lose them.

#am i reading way way too much into this one line in a 90 second teaser? #definitely yes #but shush i'm so excited for this show #star wars #tales of the jedi #tales of the jedi trailer #tales of the jedi spoilers #anakin #ahsoka #the clone wars #star wars meta #clone wars meta #star wars (tm) (pain) #rtwae

[chiss-ticism]

Death Watch is... a whole can of worms in that they're a ''''little'''' less sympathetic from the get-go in comparison to, say, the Separatists but I still feel as if they should've been written less as cartoonishly evil as they are and given even a smidgeon more nuance, if that makes any sense at all. It makes sense, to me at the very least, that Satine and the New Mandalorians kicking every single person off of the planet and onto their moon who wasn't willing to renounce their culture and other affects would radicalize a lot of them - especially considering that you've effectively put an entire group of people who already put heavy emphasis on retaining their warrior-like culture into one area, likely angry that they've been abandoned by their people, inside of what is effectively an echo-chamber

Warmongering aside (because I refuse to believe that each and every Mandalorian who was exiled or initially joined up with the Deathwatch was frothing at the mouth for their next kill from the very beginning), Mandalorian armor is typically passed down from generation to generation - each wearer having it melted down and custom fitted to themselves. It's like carrying around a physical representation of all of the people to have come before you. I imagine that that would mean a lot to some people and asking them to be rid of it in the name of Peace(tm) feels, idk, wrong man.

I get what Satine and the New Mandalorians were trying to do. I do. Comparatively, I even sympathize with their goals significantly more than those of Deathwatch by the time they first appear. But by going about it as quickly and haphazardly as she did, I feel as if, albeit unintentionally, the Death Watch was created almost entirely due to their cumulative actions - which is not to put blame on any of them for what the DW proceed to do, mind you. No one is responsible for their heinous actions but them.

Imo, it's clear that the radicalization that would no-doubt take place on account of having exiled an entire swath of people, a lot of which seemingly unjustifiably - though again, Deathwatch was given as much nuance as a puddle is deep so I can't particularly say for certain how many were justified and how many weren't- had taken ahold of Bo-Katan as it had everyone else who joined the Deathwatch. Pre Vizsla, while objectively an asshole, was a seemingly charismatic leader who was willing to stand up for what each of them saw as a better Mandalore - it didn't matter how he was going about things, the radicalization via echo chamber made sure of that, and if there were problems taken with his rule they could be dealt with later. When he died, and Maul took over in what was quite clearly a blatant power grab (what with him amassing an army of criminal organizations beforehand) - something Bo and Pre Vizsla had clocked onto well before the latter's death - Bo took the moment to separate herself from a group of people whose ideals (not their actions) no longer aligned with that of her own. When she says "No outsider will ever rule Mandalore!" I take it to mean less "This alien will never rule Mandalore" and more that someone who doesn't have (what she views as) Mandalore's best interests at heart

#There are plenty of reasons to dislike Bo #from how she smacks Ahsoka's ass on their first meeting #to her being complicit in/taking part in the burning of that village #to even just how high and mighty she can be #but there's something about how people take her leaving Deathwatch once Maul's taken control #as her being racist that bothers me immensely #I'm open to a conversation mind you #I've just seen that line of thought enough for it to get on my nerves ever so much #Star Wars #bo katan kryze #deathwatch #Death Watch #Pat rambles into the Void #bo-katan kryze #The Clone Wars #Clone Wars 2008 #Star wars meta #Clone wars meta

[adh-d2]

No but it's...

the way they naturally fall into eachother's roles when the other isn't there.

the instinctual head-tilt when Crosshair stabilized his rifle on Tech's shoulder, as if they'd done it a thousand times before.

It's the fact that Tech clearly told Phee all about his brother.

It's the sad, fond smile on Crosshair's face when Omega said Tech made her memorize all the plans ("of course he did").

It's the way Tech knew exactly where to look for that mirror.

#they were the closest brothers and I'll die on this hill #I just need them to be reunited #they are twins ur honor #the bad batch #tbb crosshair #tbb tech #tbb spoilers #the bad batch spoilers #tbb season 3 spoilers #sw tbb #the bad batch season 3 spoilers #the bad batch season 3 #tbb s3e12 #Juggernaut #tbb s2e9 #The Crossing #tbb s1e15 #Return to Kamino #tcw s7e2 #A Distant Echo #the bad batch meta #tbb screencaps #the bad batch screencaps #the clone wars screencaps #ADH-D2's Patented Bullshit

[bbygirl-obi]

considering shaak ti was like 6'2" i love the idea that female togrutas are taller on average than female humans. this is in part motivated by the fact that i love leaning into the carnivore/predator vibes of togruta bc i think we all deserve a lil more adventurous alien biology. but it is also in part bc i love the trope of younger characters being taller than older characters.

please see the vision: when ahsoka first passes 6'0" in height and is taller than obi-wan, anakin loses his SHIT and won't shut up about it. he's so fucking giddy about it bro. teasing obi-wan is like, his favorite thing to do aside from hang out with padme. the height jokes now that obi-wan is officially the shortest out of the trio are marvelous and anakin loves every moment of it.

but then... then ahsoka keeps growing. and soon she's 6'1" and anakin is getting a bit nervous, though he vehemently denies it when asked. and then she's 6'2" aka anakin's exact height and still growing and suddenly anakin doesn't find the height jokes funny any more.

...and then, one day, she inches past anakin. and suddenly anakin finds himself the butt of all of the jokes he made about obi-wan, but it's a million times worse because he's used to being the tallest. please please PLEASE imagine all of the different expressions (and colors) that would cross anakin's face the first time ahsoka rests an elbow on his head or, gods forbid, calls him "shorty."

tldr: i think ahsoka deserves to be tall and buff enough to carry her masters like this, as a treat:

#you know once anakin gets over the indignity he would LOVE her being able to carry them like this #i just think togrutas should embrace being apex predators idk #togruta #togruta biology #star wars #sw #ahsoka tano #ahsoka #anakin skywalker #anakin #anakin and ahsoka #ahsoka and obi wan #ahsoka and obi-wan #obi-wan kenobi #obi wan kenobi #obi wan #obi-wan #the clone wars #tcw #meta #star wars meta #sw meta #tcw meta #the clone wars meta

[winterinhimring]

So I recently saw a post with a screencap of this scene in it:

And good heavens. Is this not a perfect visual metaphor of Obi-Wan's role in the entire Star Wars universe? Supporting the wounded Light, unable to stop her from dying, but still steadfastly good and patient up to and through the darkest hour, waiting (though he doesn't know it, yet) for that Light to be reborn in a padawan?

#star wars #the clone wars #daughter of mortis #the force #obi-wan kenobi #the guiding light #was his callsign for a REASON #winter says things #winter screencaps the clone wars #meta

[jaguarys]

Vader is just truly the most character ever because you can make every single thing in his life a comedy or a horror or a tragedy or a melodrama and no matter what you're correct

#personal #star wars #anakin skywalker #darth vader #star wars prequels #star wars ot #star wars the clone wars #sw prequels #sw #vader #anakin #star wars anakin #fandom: star wars #type: meta

[david-talks-sw]

Debunking more myths in the GFFA: the Jedi and the clones.

I wrote a post debunking the various myths about how "the Jedi condone slavery", a while ago. Something I had omitted (because it's such a big topic) was the following two statements that concern the clone troopers' relations with the Jedi:

"The clones were genetically bred to have accelerated growth, so they're technically child soldiers."

"The clones were slaves of the Jedi."

Both the above statements are inaccurate, let's explore why. 

"The clones were child soldiers"

Let's get the easy one out of the way first, because it's a logic that cuts both ways. If age is our only determination of the maturity of a Star Wars character, then Grogu is not a baby. He is aged 50, and is thus a middle-aged man.

Who cruelly eats the babies of a woman...

... and knowingly tortures animals for his own sadistic pleasure.

Of course, I'm kidding. Grogu's none of the above things.

The narrative frames him as a cute baby who does innocent baby stuff. Him eating the eggs is played off as comedic, as is him lifting with the frog. To this day, some fans still call him "Baby Yoda".

Conversely, despite the clones being 10/14-years-old, their actions, behaviors, way of thinking, sense of humor, morals etc, are all those of an adult.

Like, Ahsoka is technically older than Rex in this scene.

The scene doesn't portray them as peers, though. This isn't written as "a teen and a tween talking". No, Rex looks, acts and behaves like a grown-up and is thus framed as such by the narrative.

You can make the argument "they're child soldiers", but (unless you're doing so in bad faith) you'd also have to argue that "Grogu's an adult".

"The clones were the Jedi's slaves"

Nope. For all intents and purposes, they're in the same boat as the Jedi, who George Lucas stated multiple times had been drafted to fight in the war.

Again: both the Jedi (monk/diplomats untrained for fighting on a battlefield) and clones (literally bred en masse only to fight) are being forced to fight by Palpatine and the Senate.

Though, on paper, the clones were commissioned by Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas, it was actually done by the Sith (who either manipulated or assassinated Sifo-Dyas then stole his identity, depending on the continuity you choose to adhere to). The rest of the Jedi had no idea these clones were being created.

So while the clones are slaves... they're not owned by the Jedi.

They're the army of the Republic, they belong to the Senate. This isn't exactly a scoop, they refer to the clones as something to purchase...

... and manufacture.

As far as the Senate’s concerned, clones are property, like droids. 

Like there's a whole subplot in The Bad Batch about this very point: after the war, the clones are decommissioned and left out to dry because they literally have no rights, they served their purpose.

The only trooper to ever canonically blame the Jedi for the clones' enslavement is Slick, who the narrative frames as having been bribed and manipulated by Asajj Ventress into betraying his comrades.

Also, the only canonical Jedi shown to ever be mean, dismissive or mistreating the clones in any way, is Pong Krell.

And it's eventually revealed he’s in fact a full-on traitor, hence why the story frames him as an antagonistic dick from the moment he's introduced. He doesn’t represent the Jedi in any way.

We know this because the other Jedi we’ve been shown are always prioritizing their clones’ lives over theirs, if given the chance.

Finally, if we wanna get even more specific... as Commander-in-Chief of the Grand Army of the Republic (GAR), the clones belong to Palpatine. 

Palpatine who is a Sith Lord. 

Palpatine who arranged for the creation of the clones and had them all injected with a chip that would activate upon hearing a code-word...

... and forced them to murder their Jedi without hesitation or remorse.

When you bear all that  ⬆️  in mind and when you read this quote by George Lucas...

"The Jedi won't lead droids. Their whole basis is connecting with the life force. They'd just say, 'That's not the way we operate. We don't function with non-life-forms.” So if there is to be a Republic army, it would have to be an army of humans."    - The Star Wars Archives: 1999-2005, 2020  

... narratively-speaking, everything falls into place.

Sidious knows that:

If he orchestrates a war designed to thin the Jedi's numbers, corrupt their values and plunge the galaxy into chaos...

If he wants to draft the Jedi - peace-keeping diplomats who’d never willingly join the fray - to fight in his war...

... then the only way they won't resist the draft and abstain from fighting is if they think joining the conflict will save lives.

So he creates a set of cruel, sadistic villains for them to face, opponents who will target innocent civilians at every turn...

... and instead of lifeless droids, he prepares for the Jedi an army of men... living, mortal people who, despite being well-trained, will be completely out of their league when facing the likes of Dooku...

... Ventress...

... Grievous...

... Savage Opress...

... or the defoliator, a tank that annihilates organic matter.

Thus, in order to save as many clone and civilian lives, the Jedi join the fray despite knowing that doing so will corrupt their values. 

And as the war rages on, a bond of respect is formed between the two groups.

Clearly, the Jedi don't like the fact that the Republic is using the clones to fight a war, but for that matter, they don't like being in a war, in fact they advocated against it.

However, it's happening regardless of their issues with the idea or personal philosophies. Said The Clone Wars writer Henry Gilroy:

"I’d rather not get into the Jedi’s philosophical issues about an army of living beings created to fight, but the Jedi are in a tough spot themselves, being peacekeepers turned warriors trying to save the Republic."

And bear in mind, the Jedi are basically space psychics, the clones are living beings that they can individually feel in the Force... 

... so the Jedi feel every death but need to move on, regardless, only being able to mourn the troopers at the end of every battle.

We see this in the Legends continuity too, by the way.

(that is, when the writers actually try to engage with the narrative)

Also, if you ask the clones, they’re grateful the Jedi have their backs.

When Depa Billaba voices her concerns about how the war is impacting the Jedi's principles, troopers Grey and Styles are quick to make it clear how grateful they all are for the Jedi's involvement:

So the clones aren't the Jedi's slaves. If anything, they're both slaves of the Republic (considering how low the Jedi's status actually is in the hierarchy).

Only I'd argue the clones have it much, much worse. 

The Senate sees the Jedi as "ugh, the holier-than-thou space-monk lapdogs who work for us"... but a Jedi has the option to give up that responsibility. They can leave the Order, no fuss or stigma. 

A clone trooper cannot leave the GAR! If they do, they’re marked for treason and execution. Again, they’re not perceived as “people”.

And it doesn’t help that the Kaminoans, the clones’ very creators, see the troopers as products/units/merchandise. A notion that the Jedi are quick to correct whenever they get the chance.

How The Clone Wars writers describe the clones' relationship with the Jedi.

George Lucas hasn’t spoken much about this subject aside from the quote from further up. But to be fair... the Prequels aren’t about the clones’ dynamic with the Jedi, so it makes sense that he wouldn’t talk on that subject so much.

He did mention that part of The Clone Wars’ perks is that he could:

“Do stories about some of the individual clones and get to know them.”

But that’s as far as it gets. 

So for this part, I'm just gonna let Dave Filoni, showrunner of The Clone Wars and the upcoming series Ahsoka, and TCW writer Henry Gilroy - both of whom worked closely with Lucas - take the wheel. They make themselves pretty clear on how the clone/Jedi dynamic is meant to be viewed. 

Here’s Henry Gilroy:

"In my mind, the Jedi see the clones as individuals, living beings that have the same right to life as any other being, but understand that they have a job to do."

"The clones see the Jedi as their commanding officers on one hand, but also, at least subconsciously, they look to them for clues to social/moral behavior."    

"Some clones may find themselves getting philosophical leadership from the Jedi that helps them answer some of the deeper questions of life."    

"We thought this was a great opportunity to show how the Jedi interact with clones. Specifically, Yoda in a teaching role of the clones, who were socially new, who kind of grew up— who were created to fight, and he really broadened their horizons and helped them realize there was a great big universe out there that was bigger than just fighting and killing."    

And here’s Dave Filoni’s comments:

"I truly believe that the Jedi try to humanize their clones and make them more individual, as Henry says."    

"I think we saw that in Revenge of the Sith, when the Clones were colorful and named under the Jedi Generals, and then in the final shots of the film with Palpatine and Vader near the new Death Star, the ships are grey, the color and life is sucked out. The Stormtroopers are only numbers and identified by black and white armor or uniforms in A New Hope." 

"The soldiers have become disposable to the Emperor."    

"That is something the Jedi would never do."    

"Yoda teaching the clones much like he taught Luke. ‘Cause that was kind of natural for [the Jedi], a natural instinct to take to these clones like they’re students."    

None of the above quotes from two different writers of The Clone Wars, who had many interactions with George Lucas, frame the Jedi and the clones’ relationship in a negative way. 

How much more proof do we need that "the clones were slaves of the Jedi” isn’t the intended narrative?

My point being that while the clones' ordeal is indeed horrible, the Jedi have nothing to do with it. The narrative of The Clone Wars always frames it as the fault of the Sith, the Senate and the Kaminoans.

If you go by the intended narrative, the Jedi were the clones' teachers and brothers-in-arms. The clones and the Jedi were not just comrades.

They were friends.

#long post #But most of this is GIFs used for evidence #meta #SW meta #jedi #Jedi Order #in defense of the jedi #Clones #The Clone Wars #on the jedi's involvement in the clone wars #TCW #Clone Troopers #Rex #Cody #Plo Koon #Mace Windu #Obi-Wan #Yoda #Dave Filoni #Henry Gilroy #Grogu #George Lucas #flashing gif

[h4lftruths4ndhyperb0le]

tcw fans will be like “this is my comfort character” and it’s a clone who appeared in two episodes (and died in the second), had a single line of dialogue, and was given no characterization outside of fanon

#it’s me #i’m tcw fans #hound my beloved #wooley my child #clones #clone wars gave me emotional attachment to a bunch of clones #sw clone wars #tcw meta #tcw #star wars tcw #clone wars #clone troopers #star wars #star wars fandom #star wars meta

[maidenvault]

A really underrated part of how the inhibitor chips are handled in canon is the fact that they can't be removed without an invasive procedure that has some risk. Whenever a character has his taken out it’s never necessarily an easy choice, a symbolic reminder that it takes bravery to choose not to be controlled by a system, and it gives these moments a lot more emotionality and impact because it’s not just a convenient plot device to restore or preserve their agency.

The most heroic moment Fives has is when learns he has this thing in him and he doesn't even hesitate to tell AZI to get it out, even if trying might kill him, because it so brazenly defies the way all clones have been positioned as powerless pawns whose individuality and choices ultimately won't matter in the big plan. When Rex has been activated and manages to get out just enough words to tell Ahsoka what to do to help him, it's a pretty powerful way of showing how much he trusts her at the end of their journey together throughout the war. Wrecker is the most hesitant to have his removed because he's scared of surgery but sees it's what is safest for everyone.

And thinking about it this way makes me appreciate why Rex's resistance has generally only been acting to help clones that have already willingly turned on the Empire, even though they always try not to hurt the others who may still on some level not be in control of themselves and, some could say, also need help. It makes me understand why the Batch couldn't just try to capture Crosshair at some point in season 1 and make him get his chip removed, something he'd never agree to while still under its influence.

It's implied that the Kaminoans subjected the Batch and Omega to a lot of scary and probably painful tests and procedures as they grew up - so much that Omega understands Echo being triggered by waking up hooked up to monitors and she dreads going back to being used in a lab. Fandom plays this up for angst in fanworks and rightfully calls the Kaminoans horrible for denying them agency over their own bodies in this and many other ways. Even if for a much better reason, the clone troopers who've left the Empire don't really have the right to treat their brothers that way and risk their safety when they're not in a state of being able to consent to it.

Just as none of the clones can reasonably hold themselves accountable for things they've done because of the inhibitor chips, they also can't be considered responsible for saving each other from being controlled by them. It's the Emperor and the Kaminoans that did this to all of them.

#captain rex #arc trooper fives #crosshair #tbb crosshair #tbb wrecker #clone troopers #meta #my meta #star wars

[spacingstars]

Sometimes, I find myself breaking down Kix’s character, turning over his traits, his patterns and behaviors… and more and more I find the personality construed by fandom for Kix to be so wildly jarring from what we do have of Kix.

Kix has, roughly, 17 minutes of screen time across the entirety of TCW, which, when compared to the likes of Fives and Rex, who clock much more screen time than most other clones, this doesn’t seem like a lot—but when you factor in most clones' screen time, we get a lot of Kix, and there’s a lot you can learn about him if you pay attention to the moments he does have on screen.

And to illustrate my point, and because I genuinely love Kix, I’m taking it upon myself to examine what we do have of Kix—both for my own purposes, creatively, and because I also happen to enjoy being neurotically intense about my favorite characters.

From “The Deserter” (S02:10) which is also Kix’s debut episode:

1. Kix speaks with a softer and gentler affliction in his voice compared to other clones (as seen with Jesse, who debuts alongside Kix and contrasts him in being more assertive.) I generally extrapolate this to be reflective of a softness that underscores Kix’s mannerisms. 2. When confronted by Suu, Kix doesn’t react with aggression of defensiveness (even if he’s also escorting an injured Rex and has a rifle pointed at him,) instead he opts to gently, and slowly, explain the situation, (in fact, Suu cuts him off and it is Jesse who has to explain, Jesse, who speaks quickly and in a more assertive manner than Kix did.) Kix’s tone is also likely influenced by caution. 3. The most notable scene in this episode that Kix appears in is when he’s tending to an injured Rex—I say notable because I think it informs much of how Kix treats his patients, even when they’re being uncooperative. Because in this scene, Kix is nothing but gentle an caring towards Rex, even when Rex tries to order Kix into letting him back into the fight despite the nerve damage he’s taken from the shot to his chest. When he pulls rank on Rex it is done so firmly, but kindly, and his face is one of sheepishness. If this scene shows anything, it’s that Kix is patient.

From Kix’s debut episode, what can be described about his character is that he’s much more reserved and gentle in comparison to the much more assertive personality of Jesse—from his mannerisms to the tone of his voice. He will be firm, but he is not unkind. He also shows patience towards his patient, even when said patient is, initially, being uncooperative.

From Umbara (S04:07 - S04:10) which is when Kix gets the most screen time:

1. The first moment of note Kix appears in is when he raises concerns to Rex about the pace Krell has had them marching at, that this pace is taking its toll on the men and they need to rest. Kix raises these concerns respectfully, secondly, Kix is doing his duty as a medic, which, is fundamental to his character, finally, Kix cares about those around him and he does what he can to ensure the welfare of these men. (And also, I think it’s quite telling that Kix doesn’t press the issue after Krell scolds them for it, as noted before, Kix does not have an assertive personality.) 2. When Kix is taking care of an injured clone he’s dragged into cover Kix retains his professionalism and keeps himself together even under stress. Kix comforts his patient instead, and I think it speaks of that gentleness I keep mentioning that Kix says, “You’re gonna be okay, buddy, this’ll ease the pain.” Kix is comforting, and he holds himself together under stress because he has his brothers to take care of. 3. I think it’s also notable that when Torrent is starting to express their distrust in Krell, though you can tell Kix is beginning to get frustrated with the treatment of the men (expressing that with Krell’s plan, casualties will be high,) his comments are not nearly has harsh as those of Tup or Jesse. Once again, Kix is shown to be more reserved, and I see it as him maintaining his professionalism in raising these concerns, even as he is beginning to grow frustrated with this poor treatment. 4. The note of Kix beginning to grow frustrated with the treatment of his brothers will be expanded upon throughout the Umbara arc; especially in light of Kix taking his frustration and horror out on the wildlife of Umbara for feeding on the corpses of his brothers. If I am to extrapolate, those dead clones serve as a reminder to Kix; a remainder that he, more and more, has been unable to properly care for all his injured brothers. These clones are a reminder to Kix of the brothers he could not save. This is the first crack within Kix, due to the stress of Umbara, and I have to emphasis, this is not Kix’s normal pattern of behavior. 5. Continuing the thread of Kix beginning to crack under the pressures of Umbara, there is a moment in Umbara where Kix is tending to an injured clone—one that’s in his arms, and this clone gets shot to death in Kix’s arms. This is directly Kix being unable to save a clone’s life despite being right there, because Umbara is that overwhelming—to such a degree that he’s forced to leave behind the injured in this moment, even if he can save them. And this is another crack in Kix’s composure, because he snaps at Rex, he drops his professionalism and his respect, and even resorts to barbed comments against Rex for ordering him from tending to the injured because Torrent needs Kix alive. This is not Kix’s normal behavior, this is Kix, stressed and crumbling under the weight of Umbara. 6. The last notable scene Kix appears in, and this is the moment where Kix finally breaks under Umbara’s pressure—it’s the moment where he starts haphazardly firing his blaster at the enemy. This is intended to be shocking—because this is not how Kix nominally acts, he’s in immense distress, and it takes Tup pulling him into cover to get him to calm down. Kix holds his composure for so long, and when he does break, he breaks hard. 7. To cap off the Umbara thoughts, though Kix does have more scenes, he is relegated to a background character for the most part—but, I can only imagine what was going through Kix’s head when he had, under the orders of Krell, fired upon other clones, it is completely counter to who he is, both as a person and as a medic, and I imagine it cuts deep—as it did for all clones involved in that moment, but for Kix… some of that hurt I imagine would be coming from how he’s meant to save his brothers lives, he’s the medic… and yet, in that moment, all he did was take theirs.

Umbara shows that Kix—who has been shown to be a respectful, kind, and helpful clone who just earnestly wants to do his duty in providing his brothers with the care he needs—is broken by an inability to help.

From the Chip arc (S06:01 - S06:04):

1. Not much to be said about some of Kix’s first appearances in this arc, as Kix is doing what he does as a medic (and expressing concern for Tup.) But the scene where Tup is in the infirmary, and Kix is confused about what’s wrong with Tup, I do think that Kix being willing to say that he can’t figure out what’s wrong, and that if they want answers, he’ll need to be sent back to Kamino, is indicative of Kix is aware of the limitations in his knowledge and is willing to humble himself. 2. This is more light-hearted scene (at first, anyway,) and is mostly conjecture on my part but I find it too amusing to leave out. That is the scene in which Kix is checking himself out in the mirror at 79’s. I do not think this is indicative of Kix being conceited about his looks—rather, I think it’s indicative of something else entirely in light of how he also talks in this scene. When he realizes someone else walks in, he talks with a deeper tone that I can only describe as Kix trying to present himself as being cool and mysterious. All the while he’s nonchalantly brushing his shoulders off. It’s so funny to me, especially when he realizes it’s Fives who just walked in, and immediately he tone switches to his typical inflection—and his mannerisms return to the typical ones we’ve seen of him. (Yes, I also think Kix had the haircut he does because he tries to present himself as cooler than he actually is, I imagine he grew embarrassed by this insistence given he grows it out later on—Kix is a dork, I said what I said.) 3. And yes, Kix immediately jumping to concern, before offering his help to Fives—even if his duty would insist that he turn Fives in because of the attempted assassination—I think, this is because Kix fixates on Fives’ distress, and he focuses on how to alleviate that stress, so even as it’s clear he’s confused by what Fives has gotten himself into, Kix still offers his help, and gives it freely in getting Fives in direct contact with Anakin and Rex at his behest. It’s a strong moment for his character, and his face when he asks what he can do to help… it’s so earnest. He’s loyal to his brothers.

And finally, there is the Echo arc of season 7, (S07:01 - S07:04):

1. When their gunship gets shot down, Kix is the first to notice that Cody was injured in the wreck and is trapped; I put this down to Kix being attentive and keeping track of the head count of the party he’s with, something done because he is the team medic and he is responsible for the well being of those around him first and foremost. 2. Then there is the scene at the campfire, which, firstly shows the bond Jesse and Kix have given the ease of banter between them and the comfort between them in their interactions. Secondly, I find it interesting how when Wrecker strangles Jesse, while Rex resorts to more direct action (trying to pull Wrecker by his collar,) Kix kind of just hovers, it’s a pretty… non-violent action when Rex and Jesse both jump to the defensive with the batch (Rex, even more directly, later on, when he actually punches Crosshair.) Similarly, even when Crosshair shoves Kix away, Kix shoves back before getting stuck in a headlock, and even after getting out of the headlock, at most he puts his hands on Crosshair to keep shoving him away. Generally, Kix is a lot less confrontational compared to either Jesse and Rex are in regards to the batch—which, circles around to my point of Kix not being as assertive, neither will he be overly aggressive towards allies. (This may be extrapolated as Kix refusing to take more direction action against another clone, given Umbara. But, that’s just extrapolation; a theory, a musing on motives.) 3. (Also yes I am aware that Kix makes jabs about the batch and I mostly construe this to be that Kix can be judgmental about others when he’s skeptical of them, I have my reasons as to why I’m not putting a lot of weight on this but it’s tied to a critique of the arc’s writing, which is not what this is about.)

In summation, Kix is shown, repeatedly, to be someone whose kind and helpful—what matters most to him is the care and well being of his brothers. He’s earnest in that care, and he’s got a softness that underscores a lot of his mannerisms and speech. He does his best to hold himself together for the sake of his brothers. He gets frustrated and breaks down in the face of mounting casualties and an inability to help his brothers. He’s respectful and professional in how he conducts himself as a medic, and even if he pulls rank, he’s firm but kind about it—he expresses patience in how he handles those under his care. Additionally, and in my own conjecture of his character, Kix tries to present himself as cooler than he actually is, suggesting a level of dorky insecurity to him. He’s also shown to lash out and make barbed comments when he’s incredibly stressed, and Kix carries judgment towards others when he’s skeptical of them.

What Kix is not is a hard ass medic whose sick of everyone’s shit, who berates and scolds his patients relentlessly—complaining about how they make his job harder. He is not quick to anger nor does he easily take his frustrations out on those around him—especially those under his care. He does not constantly throw his rank around to get those under his care to do what he wants.

It is a far cry from Kix’s character, and I think it’s a damn shame Kix’s actual character gets ignored in favor in fanon, because honestly, Kix as he is in canon is incredibly interesting—carrying a host of traits that can be explored and examined in their own right.

(Also, in quick references, I’ve narrowed down two videos that compiled Kix’s screen time across TCW, this one which clocks at ~14 minutes, and the second one with clocks in at ~17 minutes.)

#help I'm star wars posting #Clone Medic Kix #Star Wars #Fandom Stuff #Long Post #Space's Fandom Stuff #do I need a meta tag now #technically? #Fandom Salt #Fandom Nonsense

[blackkatmagic]

I am fully in support of all of those posts that critique fandom's obsession with making the clones completely Mandalorian in every way curse you Traviss, and I think it's valid to take a second look at the impulse, but I also take umbrage with the idea that the clones have nothing to do with Mandalorian culture at all. Literally the most visible clone in the whole of TCW wears jaig eyes, used the same way the Mandalorians use them, and so do multiple other clones. Multiple clones also picked Mando'a names for themselves, or wear traditional Mandalorian hairstyles, and Boil isn't the only clone who wears some sort of Death Watch insignia (which is fascinating in its own right).

There's just - nuance to all of it, I think. The clones aren't wholly Mandalorian, but they aren't not Mandalorian either. Whatever canon you want to take re: Jango and the trainers he picked, the clones clearly picked up bits of the culture from them, whether because of or despite them. Especially considering Mandalorian culture was largely spread through conquest originally, and adoption, the clones have as much of a right to it as anyone, and writing that off or ignoring the fact that at least some of them clearly do consider themselves part of the culture in some way removes a lot of the grey area from them as their own thing, imo.

The clones are a grey area, as a whole. I think that's part of the tragedy of them. They don't have one people who are their own except other clones. They don't have one specific homeworld or culture. They were created literally to die as cannon fodder, and they made themselves into a people despite that. Taking away one of the major pieces they incorporated into their lives (in strict canon, even if you want to ignore everything Traviss ever touched) is weird and overlooks a lot of what's presented about the clones in TCW.

They don't have to be perfectly Mandalorian in every way. That's just as much of an injustice to them. But removing the Mandalorian bits entirely strips away a lot of how they clearly see themselves, too.

#kat rants #meta #star wars #finally saw one too many 'how dare you portray the clones as mandos' posts whoops #anyway #the way the clones incorporate and relate to their mando heritage is fascinating and it deserves more than to be brushed off #just because some bits of fandom take it to the extreme #clone troopers

[obiwanwhat]

I know someone has probably said this better but. There's really so much about Luke & Ahsoka interactions that can be explored. Because honestly they have every reason to resent each other?

Anakin was arguably much more of a father to Ahsoka than he ever was to Luke (even if he was more of an older brother figure to Ahsoka than an actual father figure). He trained her and built her lightsabers and had a dumb nickname for her and made dad jokes and like - everything Luke ever could have wanted out of his dad. She knew him when he was still Anakin Skywalker and not Darth Vader. She knew Padme!! Padme also was kind of her mom! Luke doesn't even know Padme's name until sometime post ROTJ - it's possible Ahsoka was the first person who could have told it to him.

Not only that, but she had the Jedi Order. She was trained by the Order at its peak, raised from infancy in the rituals and knowledge that Luke now must piece together from whispers from ghosts and whatever old texts he can scrounge up from the corners of the galaxy the Empire somehow missed. He is doing all of this on his own with no guidance, no oversight, meanwhile it's knowledge that came to her as easy as breathing.

And she walked away from all of it. Everything Luke has ever wanted - a relationship with his parents, proper Jedi training, the Jedi Order itself - she had without ever asking for it, and she walked away from it without a backward glance. And she's still walking away from it - she's not a Jedi, she won't claim that title, she won't join Luke's new Order. Maybe she shows up from time to time and tells him some stories and shares from knowledge, but she won't train him, and somewhere deep down he knows that he will never be as much of a Jedi as she is even though she doesn't claim that title anymore, and part of the reason because is she won't help him.

And for Ahsoka's part. Anakin returned from the Dark Side for Luke. He couldn't - or wouldn't - return for Ahsoka, who he trained, who knew him and loved him and would have died for him. He tried to kill her and would have if Ezra hadn't saved her. But this boy, who shares nothing with Anakin but a name and half his DNA - he was enough to bring Anakin back. She wasn't, not with everything they shared, not with all the times she'd almost died for him, and he'd saved her, and she'd saved him. How do you not kind of hate someone for that?

And besides, he's trying to bring back the Jedi Order. The Order that cast her aside as soon as it was convenient for them, the Order that allowed Anakin Skywalker to become what he did and was too blind to see a Sith Lord under their noses and that died for those mistakes. And sure, he's trying to do it differently, he's trying to do it better, but what does this boy know of better? What can he know of the sins of the Jedi Order? When he speaks of the Order with stars in his eyes, what can he know of the pain that she suffered? That so many suffered? How can he correct what he doesn't understand?

I just think it would be cool to see more of that explored in canon.

#i know we won't get any of this in the show because disney is a coward and refuses to just recast young luke but it's cool to think about #ahsoka tano #ahsoka show #star wars ahsoka #ahsoka #luke skywalker #star wars #star wars tv #star wars rebels #the clone wars #the mandolorian #darth vader #anakin skywalker #star wars meta #jedi meta #nothing can ever be simple AU

[adh-d2]

One of my favorite pieces of canon continuity is that clones cannot lie for shit

#the bad batch spoilers #tbb spoilers #the bad batch #the clone wars #sw tbb #sw tcw #tbb Echo #arc trooper echo #captain rex #arc trooper fives #clones clones clones #tbb season 3 spoilers #tbb season 3 #the bad batch season 3 spoilers #the bad batch season 3 #the bad batch screencaps #tbb screencaps #clone wars screencaps #tcw screencaps #tbb s3e14 #flash point #tcw s7e2 #a distant echo #tce s4e9 #plan of dissent #tbb meta #the bad batch meta #star wars meta #ADH-D2's Patented Bullshit