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david-talks-sw · 6 months

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"Bring in the flamethrowers!"

The above moment from The Clone Wars gets brought up a lot to illustrate Ki-Adi Mundi or the Jedi's moral decadence, a fall from grace caused by the war.

Figured I'd point out a couple of things in support of Ki-Adi!

1) Simple answer: the situation called for it.

The Geonosians attacking Ki-Adi were:

enemy fighters

with the element of surprise

who could fly and were thus harder to hit with the clones' blasters, hence why more wide-ranging weapons like flamethrowers were called for, as the clones were getting picked off one-by-one.

Time was of the essence, men were dying, Ki-Adi made a choice.

Wanna know what Jedi choose when a Geonosian isn't actively trying to kill them? They save its life (and get praised for it by their peers).

2) In-universe, the Geonosians are assholes.

From Attack of the Clones - The Illustrated Companion, 2002:

"Geonosians are a physically intimidating race conditioned to live and work in caste-segregated hives. The vast majority of Geonosians are subservient to the ruling caste, and throughout Geonosian society, there is evidence of a biologically engineered class system. Some Geonosians have wings, while drones do not. [...] The blind obedience of menial Geonosians makes them an easily exploitable workforce for the upper classes, who have built a highly profitable business manufacturing Battle Droids, Super Battle Droids, and Droideka Droids for the Trade Federation and its allies."

"For unusually intelligent Geonosians unlucky enough to be born into the lower castes, participating in the games provides the only chance they will ever get to escape the misery of their downtrodden lifestyles and the rigid social expectations of the upper classes. Triumph in the arena is often a hollow victory, however; while lower- and middle-class Geonosians may win the right to talk to their superiors, they can never earn their respect."

Okay, so the winged upper class are obviously elitist bastards, but how is that even remotely relevant--

-- oh. But hey, two of them don't have wings! Those are members of the drone caste, and they're all begotten underdogs, so--

"If there is one thing that unites Geonosians of all classes, it is their xenophobia. A traditionally isolationist species, they fear espionage attempts by rivals eager to learn the secrets behind their latest droids."

-- oh. Huh.

Bottom line: yes, they're sentient... but they're xenophobic, have an elitist caste system, and earn their living by forging weapons that melt your insides or blow up planets.

Now sure, this notion has been explored and deconstructed in Star Wars: Rebels...

... and I'm not entirely sure if the quoted info still holds true in current Disney canon (the lore is from 2002, after all), but if you ask me?

On a normal day, ol' Klik-Klak would be actively trying to murder the entirety of the Ghost crew for daring to even step their dirty non-Geonosian feet on his pure red planet.

3) Out-of-universe, the Geonosians are just "bug aliens". Nothing more.

The production team of Attack of the Clones referred to them as the "termite people". The script describes them as "winged creatures" who are heard "chuckling" once Anakin and Padmé are sentenced to a gruesome death. At some point, the storyboard artists considered introducing the Geonosian workers like you would a horror monster.

Hell, the whole Lucas decided to base them on termites is because his house was besieged by them.

They're not people, which is why they're not designed to look like people. They're purposefully dehumanized so that when one of them gets killed by our heroes, it's ethically "okay" and the audience doesn't need to stop and think "oh my God, that's murder!" or "hey! that's racist" whenever a clone calls one of them a "bug."

A similar logic is applied to the stormtroopers, who have face-covering helmets that dehumanizes them.

Functionally, a stormtrooper is a fascist goon, nothing more.

Same goes for the Geonosian. It's a bug alien, that's about it.

4) The flamethrowers were probably just added because they're cool.

Dave Filoni described how the decision to add flamethrowers came up, and it doesn't sound like George had deeper storytelling motives:

"You know, we're going through the tunnel with the Geonosians and George is like: “Yeah, well, here, we'll have the-- the tunnel and the flamethrowers. Yeah. How about that? ‘Bring in the flamethrowers!’ have Ki-Adi Mundi say ‘bring in the flame throwers!’” And it's like “flame—- What? Flamethrowers?!”" - Dave Filoni, “Return to Geonosis” Featurette, 2010

It sounds like he came up with it on the spot.

The flamethrowers aren't indicative of "the moral degradation of Ki-Adi and the Jedi Order." They're likely just in there 'cause they're cool (and if you've played Team Fortress 2, you know that's true)!

At the end of the day, when it comes to the Geonosians, I think that there's a certain irony to how their story ends.

They gleefully created the battle droids that tore the galaxy asunder and the Death Star, a weapon that enables the Empire to commit genocide... but fell victim to genocide themselves, at the hands of an even bigger monster.

They reaped what they sowed. They're not meant to be mourned.

And it's nice to see this aspect of the narrative doesn't get ignored as much as I would've expected.

I came across this video that basically rips into Ki-Adi for using flamethrowers, and I was ready to roll my eyes when I scrolled down to the comments section...

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... but then, a happy surprise!

Most of the comments disagree with the video's stance! For once, logic prevails over anti-Jedi bias.

So yeah, that put a smile on my face.

#Ki-Adi Mundi #geonosians #geonosis #the clone wars #in defense of the jedi #on the jedi's involvement in the clone wars #tcw #clone wars #star wars #jedi master #21st Nova Corps #commander bacara #for the record: I'm an engie in TF2 not some WM1 Pyro

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brianhanes · 1 year

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Why Star Wars Attack of the Clones Wasn’t That Bad

A lot of times Attack of the Clones get slack from Star Wars (especially Original Trilogy fans) but it honestly was a decent film even if it wasn’t great for Star Wars standards.

1. The Prequels faced a very high standard

As previously mentioned, the Original Trilogy is one of the best trilogies of all time. Many consider it to be the best trilogy in cinema history. They were known for having great acting, stunning graphics, and a compelling story. This means people expected to see all the same from the Prequels and anything it fell short on caused people to ignore it’s strengths.

I’d honestly argue Attack of the Clones had better pacing than A New Hope. I’m not saying it was a better movie but for me, many of the scenes that took place in the middle of the film (in the Death Star) were dull. We also need to keep in mind the Vader vs Ben Kenobi duel was poor and the movie made stromtroopers look like a joke with them constantly missing. But nostalgia can fix many things. Don’t get me wrong, the start of the ANH was very strong and the end of it (trench run and celebration scene) brought about some of the best moments in cinema history.

2. It reduced the sting of Jar Jar

The main reason and many viewers enjoy Attack of the Clones more than the Phantom Menace is because of Jar Jar Binks. That character had constant, over-the-top comedic scenes that just weren’t funny. Many thought he killed the movie and Attack of the Clones was at least watchable in most scenes. More so, it made such an annoying character become a mature senator. He ended up being more mature than Anakin!

3. People Took it Too Seriously

This honestly is the biggest reason people didn’t enjoy the film as much as they could have. Attack of the Clones is easily one of the funniest if not the funniest Star Wars movie of all time. I watched it as a kid, so I was able to see this, and I watched it again as an adult and enjoyed it even more. It isn’t a Rogue One type of story and shouldn’t be treated that way.

4. We get to see Anakin simp as soon as it starts

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When I rewatch, this scene always has me cracking up. Perhaps some people had gotten so old that they forgot what it was like to be young. If you understand what it’s like to be a teenager and young adult, then much of what Anakin does should make you laugh. I’ve known so many Anakins in my life and honestly don’t know what we’d do without them bringing flavor in this world.

Anakin loses it with Obi Wan all because he’s flipping out about some girl. But it’s not just about that, he’s a young man who wants to prove who he is. Like many recent high school grads in the work force and college graduates. Anakin at this time was 19, still a teenager who wants to rush too quickly which gets him into trouble. I myself have had to learn this lesson so many times, to slow down.

Every time I hear Anakin impulsively say, “WHY??!!” I bust out. Even Jar Jar gulps in fear when he witnesses Anakin’s outburst. And pay close attention, you’ll notice Anakin is still staring at Padme when everyone else has moved on. Lucas knew exactly what he was doing lmao.

5. Anakin is so realistic

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People like to make fun of prequel dialogue even if they believed Anakin was a decent or good actor, but I have another argument, the dialogue wasn’t even that bad. At least not as bad as many people were making it out to be. For me, realistic acting is never bad acting because the point of acting is to mimic reality.

Let us think about Anakin’s past shall we. In the last movie he was a slave. Taken away to join a group of detached monks for ten years. For all his highschool age and younger years he never learned how to deal with women he liked. He never kissed a girl, probably had no idea what flirting was, and wasn’t trained on dating etiquette. Whether people would like to admit it or not most of us wouldn’t figure out and many of us still haven’t in better circumstances found out how to talk to people we are attracted to.

I knew awkward adults in college and high school when it came to women. Why then is it strange for Anakin to be awkward when they who at least had more opportunities to learn about dating approaches were just as awkward?

PADME!!!

6.The first conflict was fun

I did not watch Attack of the Clones in theaters, it was a bit before my time. The first Star Wars movie I watched in theaters was Revenge of the Sith, but I was still quite young then. I don’t know how people initially reacted when the saw the movie. but it had a strong start. There was a conflict, we knew a bounty hunter wanted to hunt down Padme. Anakin had simp tension, and an epic chase ensued throughout the Corsucant streets.

7. Anakin killing the Tuskens was also realistic

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Remember when I said Anakin was only 19? There are soldiers who at 19 snapped and wiped out villages. Killing men, women, and children. More so, Anakin himself is a former child soldier. Who was recruited at 9. Jedi in the Clone Wars TV series fight at 14. Anakin in a legends comic killed someone at 10 years old. Perhaps that could have been more fleshed out, but when you are fighting at such a young age your mind is at risk.

Not to mention they just killed his mother in cold blood. I also loved the scene itself. Seeing Anakin rage and slash up Tuskens was great. I thought his acting was amazing. He was clearly ticked off and people often blame others when big incidents happen (like how he blamed Kenobi). Some people criticize Padme for staying with Anakin knowing he slaughtered tuskens of all ages. But Padme’s reaction was realistic.

I recommend people watch a movie called “What’s Love Got to Do With It?” about Tina Turner. It’s incredibly underrated. Women stay with abusive men all the time. In this case, she had a clear way to justify it because they killed his mother and Tuskens had terrorized the local villages for years. The Tuskens themselves have probably cleaned out households, so while Anakin’s actions weren’t justifiable they are not surprising and remember Anakin is from Tatooine.

For all we know, he may have heard bad stories about them for years even while he was gone away as a Jedi. He might have been anxious about his mother well before the movie.

8, Jango Fett vs Obi Wan

This fight was epic and Jango gave us everything Boba didn’t in ROTJ, an amazing fight! Jango was the first to really show us that you don’t have to be a Jedi in Star Wars to take them on.

9. Jango vs Obi Wan in Space

Ok honestly, this was one of the best dogfights in Sci-Fi history. There I said it. It was phenomenal 10/10 the entire time. And it even did things to make it stand out as a showdown such as...

10. Seismic Charges

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Jango’s use of a homing rocket was also a nice addition to the space showdown.

11. No Dull Moments

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How anyone can watch Anakin riding that animal until he gets bucked off without laughing is beyond me. It’s gold and the CGI only makes it more comical.

12. The sand joke

Big deal, Anakin said sand is rough, course, and irritating. Is that not true? Sand really has all of those qualities. Is it more irritating that he said everything is smooth on Naboo, perhaps but is it that big of a deal. I’ve heard plenty of people make weird statements before and remember this is a monk who was not able to party, date, or do anything wild.

If you live a socially deprived like you might make lame statements too. All we can reasonably expect Anakin to do well is fight well and he did that. Outside of that, we could somewhat expect him to conduct himself professionally, but there is always an immature person out there. Like many young people, rock stars, class clowns, and others. There is always that person, why can’t it be Anakin.

13. The Droid Factory

This was a visually stunning scene with great action. We also got a good humor bit with R2 and 3P0. They are always 100 percent on character. Their argument about leaving the ship was noteworthy as well.

Also mentioning humor, when Obi Wan said he wanted to be left alone and Anakin literally wanted to ditch him after he was captured, I was in stitches. Seriously felt like a comedy skit. Padme of course does the mature thing and emphasizes that they need to rescue Obi Wan and lets Anakin know that she’ll be looking for Obi Wan. Anakin then has no choice but to also look for his master.

Maybe he was seriously, lol. Perhaps he had been nagged one too many times. Perhaps he was yanking her tail and knew Padme would insist. I guess Kenobi would have to hope that was the case.

14. The Arena creatures

A great nod to Star Wars in general. Creatures have always been an essential part of Star Wars and Anakin never missed his mark. Especially when Anakin took command of one of them. That was iconic.

15. The Arena Battle

Here Lucas did something really novel. In other depictions, we always only saw one or two Jedi around. Lucas gave us a scene with 200 Jedi fighting together as a group against a massive droid army. Like the Battle of Hoth, speeder chase, Mustafar duel, Phantom Menace duel, and Battle over Coruscant this was a staple moment in Star Wars.

Though the scene itself might not have been cinema gold, the idea was. it really deserves to get remade more in Star Wars video games. I hope to see more scraps like this in Tales of the Jedi’s next seasons.

17. C3PO switched out

Hilarious, who’d ever imagine fighting him? Him nearly blasting Gunray made it even better.

18. The Clone Troopers

One of the most beloved aspects of Star Wars. What later became a staple of the Clone Wars 2003 miniseries and 2008 Clone Wars series. It all started here and there was something special about the early clones. While the second phase of clones was my favorite (episode 3 timeline), I really enjoyed the uniform, professional, and mysterious vibes we got form the early clone troopers.

19. Count Dooku

One of the most iconic, beloved, elegant, and unique Sith Lords of all time emerged. Dooku is a staple Star Wars character (like Maul, Vader, Grievous, Jango Fett, Luke, Obi Wan) who is listed in many fans top 10 Star Wars characters. Not only is he an amazing villain but he makes for a great anti-hero or anti-villain in the Tales of the Jedi tv series. And they picked someone who was 80 years old yet still seemed powerful at all moments and someone who they can still make a lot more content about in a new show.

20. Mace Windu

Mace Windu is a classic prequel character. He has been shown in countless tv shows, comics, and novels. He is known for his dogmatic nature, being a mighty force user, and exceptional duelist. Mace really shows us what it’s like to look at an intimidating Jedi Master. His showing against Jango Fett further displays his dominance.

Dude is just OP!

21. Yoda in action

I’ve heard that people reacted by cheering in the theaters while watching Yoda’s first lightsaber duel. I remember watching the documentary and seeing how the Prequel devs created a unique acrobatic fighting style for the legendary Jedi master. He dueled in a way that made him seem terrifying and inspiring despite his size.

He showed he had the force feats and saber skills to easily match a lethal Sith Lord who just beat two top tier duelists. This was another groundbreaking moment in Star Wars much like Obi Wan’s duel with Grievous and the fight in the Phantom Menace with a double bladed lightsaber user.

22. Geonosians

Star Wars has many fascinating cultures and races such as the Wookiees, Ewoks, Mandalorians, and Twileks but what makes Geonosians particularly inspiring is their insect like appearance. More so, most of them seem to have an ability to fly and they have unique weapons that make them lethal warriors. The vicious nature of Geonosian warriors was further explore in the Star Wars Republic Commando video game which came two years after the release of Attack of the Clones.

23. Kamino

I don’t know how I skipped this but I skipped it. Kamino was an awesome water world. Similar to how Mustafar was an awesome fire planet and Naboo was stunning. Bespin was a gorgeous land in the clouds and Hoth was a nice arctic tundra. Kamino is another fine addition to Star Wars’s collection of intriguing locations.

24. It builds up beautifully with Revenge of the Sith

Especially the scene where Anakin has his vision and his mother dies. It really explains the peril he feels when Padme is also at risk. Anakin didn’t have a lot of people that he loved that weren’t involved in the Jedi Order. And that really matters because all the Jedi that he knew (even the ones he liked) constantly reminded him (whether intentionally or not) of the rules and obligations he desperately wanted a break from.

The scene where Anakin vows to never again let someone he loves die and how he reacts to his mother’s passing is huge. It really lays out why he isn’t willing to risk Padme’s death in Episode 3 and how his biggest issue is an inability to accept that some things are beyond his control. Furthermore, it laid out the foundation for the story of Darth Plageius the Wise.

My rating of ATOC is 7 out of 10 stars but I honestly enjoy it more than that rating.

25. Obi Wan’s sass

Ok how did I miss this? Anakin doesn’t get to hog all of the comedic points. Kenobi definitely deserves to join in on this fun. If you didn’t notice his blatant sarcasm during the “rescue attempt” I really don’t know what to tell you.

26. The Fireplace Scene

One of my friends mainly agrees with me, he tells me most of the scenes in this movie are decent. Some were a bit cringey but they made sense (like how Anakin acted around Padme) but the fireplace scene was just atrocious. I’m going to argue with him. I’m going to argue it was delicious. But seriously, this is an all or nothing scene.

Either you love it or hate it and I love it to pieces! Perhaps not so much if you care about Anakin’s dignity, I mean he really went way to far here. Like I said, the sand quote wasn’t embarrassing, it wasn’t an odd thing to think though uncommon to express. But the I CAN’T BREATH, you’re in MY SOUL TOURMENTING ME! That would get a man ghosted very quickly.

Still, fighting in the battlefield and almost getting killed alongside each other might change things. I mean, maybe Padme was intending to ghost and friend zone until that happened. Being a hero, slashing droids in half, that definitely can win a woman over.

And to be fair, if a woman meets with you in a nice gown and you’re supposed to “protect her” I’m not quite sure what her real motives are.

27. Deathsticks

Brilliant, brilliant, absolutely BRILLIANT! Seriously, drugs in Star Wars were makes it feel much more real. But what’s even better about this is Kenobi himself uses his trademark jedi mindtrick to convince a man to clean himself up, stop selling drugs, and change his life. That’s inspiring, Lucas was dropping golden nuggets and making people laugh in a Star Wars movie.

28. Little Boba

This was honestly a nice touch. Boba at this point in the story a goofy little kid, it added personality to his dry yet cool persona we saw in the OT. Which was appropriate for the Original Trilogy, but it is important to know that people are people, there is a reason they act however they do.

Boba Fett yelling, “Get him dad. Get HIM. FIRA.” It wasn’t that bad and hey he was a kid, just rooting for his father. Boba also showed maturity by doing as Jango ordered without hesitation and being able to operate the Slave 1 on his own even managing to use it to hurt Obi Wan.

The most important scene here was him witnessing his father’s death, it completely explain how he became such a ruthless and cold bounty hunter later. But like his father Boba had some values, unfortunately AOTC didn’t do a good job showing the values Jango had or how he passed them down to his son.

29. Dexter’s Diner

It was a nice dive into a more casual aspect of the Star Wars universe. I felt the same way about the glimpses we got into Coruscant, the Jedi Temple, Naboo, and the public transport in the film. The nice thing about Star Wars is getting different themes and narratives each movie. it can’t be all doom and gloom like Revenge of the Sith, Rogue One, and you get it.

30. Look at what it led to

I pretty much wrapped it up but I want to add this. I’m not focusing on projects that came out Revenge of the Sith, which in my opinion was the best movie lore-wise (not in general) in Star Wars history. Attack of the Clones and the Phantom Meance may not be the best Star Wars movies by any means, but they were decent (well TPM is decent without Jar Jar) but lore-wise I think the Prequels as a whole are on another level to anything else Star Wars.

Star Wars Republic Commando (2004)

One of the best video game series of all time. It was outright phenomenal and delved more deeply into the mysterious, sci-fi, war, and clone aspects of the Clone Wars that Attack of the Clones introduced us to.

Star Wars Clone Wars (2003) Volume 1

This series was epic and action packed. It really showed us the huge battles, vast frontiers, mysterious worlds, great array of vehicles, and different climates that were shown in Clone Wars battles. This is a distinct vibe from the later Clone Wars which has more of an episode 3 vibe. The biggest difference is by then both the CIS and Republic are much more developed and begin to fight in more populated and crowded worlds.

The 2008 Clone Wars series initially gave us a blend of both feels that were in Episode II and III but eventually (post season 3) became more centered on the Episode III tone of war. The same was true with the second volume of the Clone Wars (which makes perfect sense) but the first volume is largely regarded as the favorite. And what really made it special was that peculiar vibe the era had, you never knew what you were going to encounter.

When invisible droids engaged Yoda on Illum or when Ventress dueled Anakin something about it was so new and fresh that isn’t easily implemented in other eras. And for good resaon, they all have something special about them.

Star Wars The Clone Wars (2002)

It was a phenomenal vehicle based video game that existed in a Star Wars setting. It had a compelling story, epic battles, unique vehicles, and diverse multiplayer modes. This game just showed how much potential the AOTC era had.

Star Wars Republic (2002-2004 content)

While Republic initially came after The Phantom Menace and many of it’s great comics were inspired by the character Quinlan Vos, much of it’s content that came after 2002 was influenced by Attack of the Clones. But likewise Attack of the Clones was influenced by the comic series.

Many people though Aayla Secura was created in Attack of the Clones, but she actually first appeared in Star Wars Republic back in 1998. Still, the Clone Wars timeline brought many interesting storylines to this series.

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