#the same person who said that shippers who don't think they're going to be canon have internalised homophobia

[theophagie]

Bnha break weeks are hell save me Horikoshi there's idiots in here.......

#i don't support all bkdks some of you are horrible people............ #the same person who said that shippers who don't think they're going to be canon have internalised homophobia #and that got all pissy that people brought up ryoutoutsukai/dual wielding = bisexuality in slang thanks to the fantasy au #now saying that izuku being bi would. and i quote. ''bring nothing to the story except checking a representation box #that's already been checked and followed up on with a different character'' and that ''what we need is a fully explicitly gay mc'' #shocking. completely unexpected. who would have thought. #mytext #salty #bnha #animanga

[strangertheories]

It is my biggest pet peeve when (mostly) straight people try to make queer people feel guilty for shipping two same gender characters together or say it's problematic to ship them, so I've made a little list debunking their ideas. I'll be talking a lot about Byler but this also applies to Elmax, Ronance, Steddie and queer ships in general.

"Why can't people be friends anymore?" Why can't a guy and a girl be friends either? Why aren't you saying this about Chrissy and Eddie shippers? Unless the issue is that they're gay.

"You're assuming Will is gay based on stereotypes!" Of course, the horrible stereotype that gay guys like men but not women, how problematic of me.

"You're fetishizing children!" No one says this about M*leven shippers. The fact that you view a queer relationship as inherently sexual and adult is sexualising young people much more than shipping Will and Mike does.

"Men will be scared to be affectionate to their friends in real life in case people think that they're gay!" First of all, I doubt some straight guy is going to stop hanging out with his friend because some random person on the internet drew Steddie fanart. And second of all, why are we treating straight men's fear of being perceived as gay as a perfectly valid and normal fear? (I elaborate a bit on this point in the reblogs)

"Why is it okay to say Mike Wheeler is gay but not say Robin is straight? You're erasing his sexuality!" First of all, when did Mike say he's straight? Sure he said he loves Eleven (which I doubt he does anyways) but bi people exist. Plus, there are so many straight characters and ships out there. Straight people don't look up lists of shows with canonical queer representation or watch a show because it has a straight girl in it. Lesbians like myself look up to characters like Robin and they are meaningful to them. No straight person feels seen in their heterosexuality because of Mike Wheeler. The only exception in my opinion is when people headcanon straight characters who are dating trans people as bi like Tao from Heartstopper because that comes off as transphobic.

"They're too young to know that they're gay and you're forcing a sexuality on them." I've known I'm gay since I was eleven or twelve which is the age they are in S1. And yet again, why aren't you saying this about straight people! Everyone accepted that Dustin and Lucas liked Max in S2. Yet Will is too young to know who he likes... Interesting.

"Grown adults wanting two young boys to kiss each other is pretty weird." The issue with this is again the hypocrisy. Adult M*leven shippers don't get told this. Mike kissed Eleven in S1 and it was completely cute and non-sexual because they are children so of course it isn't sexual. Hell they even made out when they were 13 and no one complained. Why would that be any different if he kissed Mike instead of Will? Yet again, people view queer people as being inherently sexual but queer people get cute little crushes or want to kiss people sometimes too. It's not a sexual thing. It's the exact same as a straight person doing it.

Anyways that's my rant done. It just annoys me when half of their arguements saying why it's wrong to ship these characters are just masked homophobia, even if the person saying it doesn't realize. Feel free to add more to this in the reblogs, this is just what I've seen.

#stranger things #byler #byeler #will byers #mike wheeler #steddie #ronance #elmax #jargyle

[ladykailitha]

Look, considering I've only gotten involved in Stranger Things after season four and therefore haven't been around the fans during other new season filming starts, but my brothers/sisters/nb in fandom what the honest fuck is going on right now?

I have been a part of other fandoms when new seasons started filming and the worst I'd seen was BBC Sherlock. And you lot are behaving worst then they did.

And Jesus fuck, that's a fucking low ass bar.

(Again I am ship and let ship, kinktomato, and headcanon free for all)

But this is just what I've seen in my small deliberately secluded corner of the internet so forgive me if I get some things wrong.

Ronance fans have turned on Steddie fans.

Steddie fans are trying to eat each other over who tops and who bottoms between two horny, barely out of their teens, men.

Eddie is confirmed dead.

Dustin is trying to become Eddie.

People want Will dead because Noah Schnapps said some stupid shit regarding genocide.

And Argyle isn't coming back.

I'm going to give you my feelings on these so buckle up lets go:

1- Steddie and Ronance fans have turned on each other. And I know this because I doom scroll through steddie tag. That Ronance fans think Steddie fans are delusional and that they're going down after season five airs and there will be more Ronance fans because they're perfect for each other.

Where to even begin on this? First, never tell a shipper that their ship is never going to be canon because they don't care. Just ask all the Destiel, johnlock, and merarthur fans. Steddie fans are just going to ignore all but the most salient parts of season 5 if Eddie doesn't come back and write AUs for the rest of their lives. You know, like they have since the last scene on the Piggyback faded to black?

Secondly, I don't think I've seen much Ronance without Steddie. Granted I only read Steddie, but it seems that the two ships are tied pretty heavily together. The fruity four comes to mind. So maybe it's that they're getting tired of being a side ship next to a massive one like Steddie. Who knows. But apparently they're bitter.

And I say that because they keep tagging their anti-Steddie posts as Steddie to make sure we see it. Honestly, I just block them and go about my day. But seriously, I've never understood people's need to be shitty like posting hate on the tag for that thing. If you don't like it, fine. Block and move on.

Thirdly. Lastly. Maybe. I don't like Ronance. I saw the charms when I first joined the fandom and it was cute. Until the more I read and I realized that most of the time they don't bring up that Jonathan is even a person let alone Nancy's current boyfriend. That most of the time Steve is written wildly out of character about not caring that they're a couple and that he just wants them to be happy. Like, one Jonathan is severely under used in the fics I've read. Like Will doesn't have an older brother anymore. It's all Steve or Eddie. Which considering how you like your flavor of queer for Eddie or Steve (gay/pan/bisexual) Will talking to them about being gay makes sense, but Jonathan showed us in the last season that he is going to protect Will no matter what. Then blip! in fanfics, he's gone.

And then the whole Steve being okay with Robin not only dating an ex-girlfriend of his, but the ex. The one he thought he was going to marry. The one he dreamed a whole fucking future on. That was still hurt by two fucking years later. You either think very lowly of Steve or you just don't care. Because if you think Robin and Steve are the same person/share the same braincell/ride or die for life, there is no way even if Nancy threw herself at Robin would she even consider it. (I can write a whole ass post just on this by the way, don't get me started.)

2- This is the most recent bullshittery due to a current event about Sub Eddie. This is the worst discourse in any fandom and the worst offenders on either side tend say the most homophobic shit imaginable.

And it's pointless. Whether you think Steve is a top or bottom, whether you think he's dom or a sub. Same with Eddie. Everyone has their own flavor they prefer and they won't always match up with yours.

Personally I write them whatever feels natural for the story. But here's the major crux of the matter. I don't believe a little nerd in Bumfuck, Indiana has any idea what flagging is. I'm sorry. Left pocket, right pocket. Doesn't matter. The likely of him even knowing what BDSM is is pretty slim. I grew up in a small town. There will be some people that know, but that's because they know adults in the scene.

Don't like, don't read. Seriously, guys. Let people enjoy what they want to.

My personal feelings on the matter is that Steve is a bottom/sub because he deserves to be taken care of and Eddie would absolutely want to be that person for Steve, in and out of the bedroom. Again, you do you, beau.

3- The tombstone. Sigh. It was hard to see that. Not just because it confirms he's dead, but because it's been defaced. Most likely like fans have said, "BURN IN HELL" the poor bastard.

Having a tombstone doesn't necessarily preclude Eddie's return. There are several ways he can still comeback Kas! theory not withstanding. But the wank here is people jumping on Steddie shippers and Eddie fans in general pointing and screaming "see!"

Like we didn't have campaigns for Barb and Bob and (Billy). If someone's favorite character has died, don't be dicks when they want them to be resurrected a la Jim Hopper. Because that right there is the main reason people will still hold out hope until the final scene fades to black, okay?

I guess this one is just be nicer to each other, okay?

4- *sob* like holy fuck. Dustin you sweetheart. The long hair, the torn Hellfire t-shirt, the rings. The horns and sticking out his tongue. That poor boy needs several hugs STAT! And of course, people can't leave well enough alone on Facebook, I couldn't tell you how many of the comments were "steddie fans are going to make this all about them, aren't they?" Even though there wasn't a single comment by a Steddie making it about Steve/Eddie. But so many eye rolls. The other half were death threats against Noah Schnapp.

Which brings me to...

5- Noah Schnapp said some really shitty things about Zionism and the attack on Gaza. There is no escaping that. He said them. He double downed on them. And while yes it sucks he said those things, let's not forget he's still young and stupid. He's barely 18/19 years old. I remember being that age and saying stupid fucked up shit, and hoo boy does this make me grateful I was well into adulthood when the internet became a thing (24ish).

There are a lot of reasons to be upset by his comments and I get that. But death threats and calls for his dismissal/boycotts just seems excessive to me.

One, because the story began with a kidnapped little boy and a runaway little girl. If you get rid of one of them especially this close to the end it would fuck up the story. Now if there was more than one season left, sure. But this is literally the end. And for all we know, Will's character may already be doomed by the narrative. So calling for it now isn't go to do anything. Especially since they already had all the scripts written and would have finished filming if it hadn't been for the strikes.

Two, one person on the cast said something stupid and hurtful and you want to boycott the entire show for it? Like, what did David Harbor, Joe Keery, Maya Hawke, Millie Bobby Brown and all the others do to deserve you boycotting their show? If the last season tanks it could seriously hurt their careers, but hey Noah Schnapp said something bad, so fuck them?

I'm going to stop there, because this is another one I can go on and on about, but yeah. Don't hurt other people in your rush to vilify an 18 year old.

6- Eduardo Franco recently said that he didn't get a call so he didn't think he would be back. He was sure that ship had sailed.

Fans are upset, naturally. Argyle was a sweetheart and deserves better than to be cut from the story like that.

But thanks to the incident with David Harbor and Jim Hopper supposedly being dead, a lot of fans are saying he's only saying that because it's a "secret" he's coming back. Which would make sense for Eddie or any of the other character died. Martin Brenner, for example, but not Argyle. There would be no need for subterfuge. Plus, he would already be out in Georgia if he was coming back.

It's sad that he was done dirty this way, but if they split up the filming like they've done before there is still a chance he might get to come back, but as far as the current filming is concerned, yeah Argyle isn't coming back.

***

Just... be kind to each other. Remember that the other people on the end of the URL is an actual person with feelings. That people can like what they like so if they aren't hurting you, don't hurt them, okay?

#my writing #stranger things #ladykailitha rants #tw wank #fandom wank #season 5

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

So, sokkastyles makes this post about people who criticize Zuko for “I’ll save you from the pirates” act like he didn’t changed and if his redemption arc was non-existent or something. Which is somewhat valid, some people act like Zuko didn’t change and he did grow as person for the most part.

I pointed out “Most people don't pretend Zuko never changed. 'Cause he did. It's just annoying when people romanticize Zuko tying Katara to a tree and stuff when it isn't romantic. It's like romanizing Aang kissing Katara in EIP, it isn't romantic, he kissed her without consent”.

Then sokkastyles said this:

no, it is not like that. A cartoon villain tying the hero to a tree is not like kissing someone without their consent. People romanticizing it is fine, actually. What's not fine is for you to compare what in canon is a nonsexual act to Aang violating Katara's consent, and then tell zutara shippers they are

"annoying" for doing something you don't like that's totally harmless. Go away. You are annoying.

Then after some brief discourse they blocked me and posted this https://www.tumblr.com/sokkastyles/747582627682336768/tying-someone-to-a-tree-is-just-as-bad-as-kissing?source=share

Maybe, just maybe I’m overreacting, but grabbing someone by the hand and tying them up is pretty serious offense that could happen, and is just as bad if not worse than kissing someone briefly without consent. But that’s just me, what do you think?

It really is comparing apples to oranges - but not in the way that idiot assumes.

The Ember Island kiss was "non-consensual" in the sense of "Aang didn't verbally ask to kiss her first" (which is common and normal to some degree no matter how much zutarians lie that "Well, EVERYONE asks first", especially considering they had consensually kissed twice before) but not in the sense of "Katara very explicitly rejected his advances and Aang FORCED himself on her."

She asked for time to think, he jumped the gun, she got mad, he realized it was a bad move and felt awful.

Meanwhile, the zutara tree scene is literally Zuko holding Katara hostage, taunting and threatening her. It's not sexual, but it is hostile - and zutara as a ship only exists because of people MAKING that scene sexual and writting fics of Zuko full on raping Katara. THAT is the base of the zutara ship, no matter how much they deny it. The pirate scene, in zutara fanon, has always been "What if Zuko raped Katara and that made her like him?" That has been the consistent fanon zutara spin on that scene.

Now, zutara fans would tell you "But it's fine to do something like that as long as you know it'd be abhorrent in real life. Fictional characters are not people that are truly able to consent to literally anything, good or bad, that happens to them in a story" - and let me be clear here, they're right. Katara and Zuko are not real. The victim, the criminal and the crime itself aren't real. Claiming "liking zutara is supporting rape" because of those fics would be like saying liking Avatar is the same as supporting the use of child soldiers in a war, or that the writers commited real child abuse against a fictional 13-year-old when they created Zuko's backstory.

But, of course, they can't just end it at the reasonable part. Them enjoying non-con subtext/fanon for their ship is fine because it's not real - but one poorly timed kiss means Aang is the devil and that anyone that likes Kataang is a raging misogynist and RAPE apologist, even though zutarians are the ones constantly going for rape for THEIR ship.

You see why no one takes these people seriously?

#anti zutara #pro kataang #pro aang

[theophagie-remade]

I've been kind of following the Gundam lesbians vs Bandai controversy from the sidelines (ie: the main characters got married (offscreen) at the end of the series and the production team is supportive; Bandai censored the explicit mentions of marriage in a recent magazine and then said that everything is up to interpretation) and. In general it's a really good example of how oftentimes it's not authors who should mainly be blamed for the lack of unapologetic queerness in anime and manga (or anywhere else, for that matter), but those companies that they work for

Which leads me to

And as a side note I want to reiterate this but anyone who calls them "queerbait", "yuribait", etc is a stupid dickhead because Toga is bisexual and in love with Uraraka. THE QUEER IS THERE

At this point it no longer makes much sense to wonder whether the romantic undertones to Uraraka and Toga's relationship are accidental or not. I won't claim that they will definitely end up together together (although I've seen enough Japanese fans go crazy for how proposal-esque Uraraka got to, like, at least entertain the thought lol), but what I want to say is. Everything that happened between them is deliberately meant to be read as queer, romantic, and mutual. Uraraka may have not said "I love you" back to Toga in these same terms, but through her actions and words she has reciprocated her feelings. Yes, even if Those Assholes say that she's just lying, that anything that isn't spoon-fed explicitly confirmed is just a "delusional interpretation"

Even then, the supposed line between text and subtext is... a bit eyebrow raising, innit. Toga being bisexual and having feelings for Uraraka is text. Exchanging blood being equal to kissing to her is text. Her insecurities are text......... Uraraka wanting to give Toga her blood, thinking that her smile is beautiful, and that she's the cutest in the whole world is text. I feel like that strongly suggests something at minimum, no. And. Can we really call it subtext, or even coding, when characters do everything short of dramatically shouting "I gay-love you!" to each other? These are more of my personal feelings, and I know that this happens because We Live In A Society, so we tend to feel like things like these must be outright defined so that our queer interpretations can gain validity and the right to exist in the eyes of the majority (= the cishet audience), but... I do find this way of engaging with media rather stifling, especially because... people who hate us to begin with won't care if two manga girls declare their love to each other. Chances are that they will get angrier, actually, or that they will look for excuses to deny their love ("the author was pressured by crazy shippers", "akchually the wording is ambiguous", "the degenerate West is corrupting the purity of the East", you name it)

Still, I know. I know that there's a lot of hunger for undeniably canonical queer relationships (for obvious reasons! understable reasons!), but to circle back to the beginning of this post, pushing back against the system is hard. Bnha's ending is still a ways off, and no one can predict the future. We don't know if Horikoshi plans to stress even further/more bluntly within the manga that Oh, They 👭🏳️‍🌈, we don't know if Jump would allow him to, we don't know if such a thing would be met with opposition elsewhere/afterwards (see: what Bandai is trying to do now, after everything has been said and done).

Regardless, sought after explicit confirmation or not, they do have something, something that is very much there to anyone who's willing to embrace it for what it is: mutual, queer love. And they're sooo real 🩷💛

#bnha #togachako #animanga #mytext #and now we finally go to sleep. eepy....... #if tomorrow i'll wake up look at this again and find any typos i will end it all #long post

[bebx]

Honestly, I don't get how people can think that Sylki won't be endgame. Are they forgetting that it's Disney? Or that the writer is a Sylki shipper? Let's be realistic. I agree that it would make zero sense, but this argument is lame, because we know Marvel doesn't care and they're capable of doing that. I wouldn't be surprised if they rushed it and pulled "actually Sylvie has been in love with him the entire time, but she's been hiding it, trying to push him away, because she thinks she doesn't deserve love. But she got over it now." Not to be rude, but I feel like everyone who believes that Sylki won't happen is delusional. I really want Lokius to happen, not Sylki, but even the idea of Sylki not happening is too good to be true. I feel like those leaks are true.

the leaks, which came from several people who claimed to have seen the entire season (and they all said the same thing), were correct about Marvel’s revealing that Mobius has 2 sons in episode five. I know it’s just a “rumor” and there’s no way to know if they really did see the entire season, but tbh I expect Marvel to pull the Sylki endgame in the finale (like how those leaks also said they would do that, getting Loki and Sylvie back together in the last episode).

if I had to guess, I’d say it’d go exactly the way you said, that Sylvie was always in love with Loki all along, but didn’t think she deserved to be loved, hence why she tried to push him away.

I would love to be wrong, but I guess we’re all finding out soon.

also I wouldn’t call anybody delusional for thinking Sylki won’t be endgame or that Lokius will be canon, unless it’s in a joking manner where I’m also making fun of myself. but in all seriousness, I don’t think anybody is ever “delusional” for having opinions about which direction the show will go based on what was actually showed so far in the series. because if this weren’t Disney, I’d say Lokius would absolutely go canon, after all those hints and everything they gave us so far. Sylki parting ways as friends and Lokius going canon as a couple are very highly unlikely, but it’s not entirely impossible either.

as for the writer, if you mean Eric Martin, dude’s a troll (and I say this with respect lol nothing against him, I’m sure he’s a good person with good sense of humor), he’s always liked both Sylki and Lokius posts because he knows fans monitor his likes and I fully believe he’s doing it on purpose just to (playfully) mess with the audience. so I wouldn’t take whatever he liked on social media as a “confirmation” of anything, not even his personal opinion about which ship he thinks is “better”.

*and even if he does personally ship Sylki, it’d still be unfair imo to assume he only made Sylki endgame solely because he personally liked the ship. if he’s a professional writer, I’d like to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that he had other reasons behind his writing choices that had nothing to do with his personal feelings, since after all, the characters belong to Marvel, not him. so his personal preferences shouldn’t be the only factor in deciding which direction things should go. (to be clear, what I mean is: it’s perfectly okay — and it is a good thing — to write a story based on how you, the writer, personally prefer, but I don’t think he’d make Sylki endgame just because he liked it without any other reasons involved when it’s still Marvel’s show and he was hired by Marvel, not his show, if that makes sense.)

#my inbox is open #sylki #lokius #sylvie #loki #mobius #loki series #loki season 2 #tom hiddleston #loki x mobius #loki 2 #loki s2 #loki show #loki tv #loki laufeyson #loki odinson #marvel #mcu #mcu loki #sylvie laufeydottir #agent mobius #mobius m mobius #mobius m. mobius

[borzoilover69]

I think after the events of Act 6, the character that makes the most sense to me for Dave to end up with is Jake. And I mean this in a CANON! IT FITS THE STORY AND THE CHARACTERS! Kind of way. Not just in a shippers be shipping kind of way. I think they would understand each other. They both would need to grow and mature a bit to make their relationship work, and I think they would care so much about making it work that they would.

Jake liked to travel around as grandpa harley. He liked to go explore, pilot ships, adventure. Dave seemed to like just keeping to himself, and do his own thing, join others sometimes. Jake and Dave would both go their separate ways and come back to each other like no time had even pasted by. They have this opposites attract thing about them but at the same time they are both actually sensitive. Maybe more like two sides of the same coin

I mean.. i guess??

I think i see the the "splitting and then coming back like no time has passed at all" applying moreso to John and Jake than it does Jake and Dave. Dave at heart seeks attention, and even if their bond is superficial at most, I can definitely see him going from "Idgaf about jake english" to "oops! i gaf about jake english" and feeling impacted when Jake starts ignoring him.

In all realness. it wouldnt work longterm. You said it, Dave just sort of likes keeping to himself and works best when someone is ordering him around to do things. Jake however is someone who needs to be constantly enriched by his surroundings to sustain interest, without it becoming too suffocating. When Jake realises Dave will just follow along with what Jakes doing without necessarily challenging or really adding to it, he'll get bored and ditch Dave, or try to aggravate Dave into leaving FOR him because god forbid he communicates.

Hence why Dirkjake technically "work" in the way that Dirk will continue to push Jake back and Jake will continue to bite back because if there's one thing that Dirk and Jake like it's conflict and combat on their own terms due to how engaging and direct it is.

Dave and Jake are both super immature and refuse to really change in my eyes. Like yes, they're aware of their flaws. But being self aware that you're a jackass doesn't always equal that you stop being a jackass. And I don't think they'd work longterm because they recognise the other person is intolerable and if there's anything Jake really fears its being seen as a person.

HOWEVER. There is I guess a silver lining? Ish? I'd see it as they'd feel comfortable telling the other deep secrets or personal reflections on their self through a haze of vices, not because they really trust the other or feel deeply connected, but because THEY DONT CARE WHAT THE OTHER THINKS OF THEM AT ALL. They are not really anything to each other. "The only reason i trust you with my secrets is because i dont care that much about what you have to say or what you do with it because youre just as bad as me and not in a way i pity you but i recognise my aspects in you and also youre not connected to my other friends in a way i care for. We could entertain each other but one of us is going to start biting and the others going to get hurt and thats fine."

Their asses are not fixing each other. They're aware they both suck. This means they're also aware the possibility of sustaining a relationship longterm is low. But there is some comfort, in people that look like your best friend but not really and with none of the quirks that resigns their best friends to the best friend role.

#borzoi meta #asks #borzoi talks #davejake #dave strider #jake english #they just wouldnt care longterm i just think #dave nad jake as people are too aggravating and concerned with themselves #to ever care about anyone “normally” longterm. also dave would lowkey piss jake off with his polit talk and kind of blunt behaviour #meanwhile jake would piss dave off because of how much he skirts things after a while. #or maybe itd enamour him i can see dave being enamoured by jake but dave will never be as interesting as dirk is to jake #its easy to fall into that “oh theyd care enough” but weve seen how jake cares and it doesnt work. #*gestures vaguely. #i still ship them though. theyre enabling each other man. thats good enough #homestuck #home2t4ck

[metanarrates]

i have a lot of mixed feelings regarding trans headcanons in orv, or in general in fandom spaces because of how often its taking transmisogynistic jokes and bending them to actually have a cool and awesome meaning instead of just reading fiction with transgender characters. how do you feel about this as an everyone in orv is transfem poster (not accusatory tone i am genuinely wondering your take on this)

I think it's complicated because i Do agree that most trans headcanons in fandom are rooted in transphobic ideas, especially when it comes to transfem characters. I actually personally wouldn't trust most people who headcanon characters as trans unless they're able to point out when something in the text is transmisogynistic. and orv does have transmisogynistic stuff in it. the whole joke with nirvana and the entire scene with the pink kids is based around transfems being predators and men in disguise. I really don't want to hang around other orv fans unless they're able to point that out. (also, i would Definitely not trust anyone who refers to those characters as trans icons or whatever.)

I'll also fully admit that I don't remember the revolutionary arc all that well. at the time when I first read it, I just simply assumed that jang hayoung was meant to be a trans woman, and any issues kim dokja had with recognizing her gender was interesting because of how it tied into the metafictional elements about how characters can change beyond a reader's perception. from my recollection, and from the readings of other people in my life who have read the novel, it seemed canon that she was intentionally transfem. similarly, I felt like the plot point of "yoo joonghyuk has a female alter ego" was taken pretty seriously, rather than being a meanspirited joke. if I'm not remembering that right, though, please let me know.

orv in general has a problem in depictions of lgbt people. there's the abovementioned transmisogyny with nirvana and the pink kids, and there's also the undeniable fact that "kim dokja and yoo joonghyuk are gay but haha Not Actually" is leaned on a little bit too much as a joke. I have a similarly complicated relationship to the idea of shipping them for that reason - I think their relationship is meaningful and rich, but I really dislike that the fandom seems to just take that joke as an uncritical BL trope, rather than discussing how it's sometimes a bit homophobic. again, I don't trust joongdok shippers who aren't able to discuss this.

at the same time, though, I do think that if you're aware of the problems in the text, it's possible to construct a lot of rich meaning out of applying queer lenses to the text. there's a lot to dig into regarding how the story depicts gender, for example, and how it depicts transcendence and self-actualization. you can't credit the authors here - like I said, their writing has several issues with lgbt people. but as long as you aren't advertising the story as Queer Fiction, I find that it's extremely valuable to discuss how a trans reading might cast an interesting light onto a character. and on a more personal level, I think having these sorts of open discussions about both the problems and merits of trans readings, as well as the issues present in a text, do tend to make a lot of trans people feel more welcome in fan spaces. both are necessary for making a story and space that may be hostile towards them feel more welcoming.

yes, I do agree that it would probably be better to read fiction with better trans characters. those stories are out there! this is also why I am wary to praise singshong for jang hayoung's character - I don't think orv exactly Deserves a reputation as a trans inclusive story, especially when there's a lot more of those that are much better at it out there.

but at the end of the day, there are going to be trans people who do like orv, all the same. I'm one of them, though I will say upfront that I am tme and therefore much less affected by the story's problems. my fiancee is transfem and she likes it. a lot of my mutuals who like orv are trans. I don't think it's such a bad thing that we've constructed these community readings in a work we already liked for its other merits. we're going to be here anyway. as long as we do our best to be respectful and point out problems as they arise, I think it's a good thing that we're having these sorts of discussions.

#narrates #orv #transphobia discussion #transmisogyny discussion #tldr; yeah this is a necessary discussion to have and its why I try to be careful about how i discuss this as well as who i associate with

[mlobsters]

saw a post yesterday (3 months ago now) that was like finale reactions from not-wincest shippers saying wincest won - but wincest shippers said it wasn't even wincest. which brings me around to my pondering how there's this divide of the ship into wincest / weirdcest / gencest which I'm still not totally sure the difference between the last two. but like, if I'm talking about wincest, I'm not talking about them with fucking required? it's just the dudes in a not-strictly-familial-platonic relationship. which to me, canonically, even in the most literal reading they've got a queerplatonic situation, so that qualifies

i think what i'm boggling over is that (sometimes?) the ship isn't the ship (the key is the key, man) it's like, ship+what they're doing with their dicks.

which led me to reading fanlore's gen and slash and smarm etc articles -> looked for a gencest article, reading the gen sam & dean one and the sam/dean one which is understandably packed with the related shipwar-ish stuff and i'm reminded i just. shouldn't read what anyone has to say about ships and this show. I feel like I'm rarely on the same page as anyone else, which is impressive in a fandom this large. i still don't really understand how the lines between them get drawn. but after all that i read, it sounds like people aren't really in agreement out there on the internet either.

so, this has been in my drafts since december and another post/reply got me to open it back up, someone saying if you want to tag the non-sexual situation it's gencest or weirdcest, not wincest. but I think now my personal understanding/interpretation is that those are just a subset of wincest, not standalone. I think another component of why it gets under my skin too is the inherent devaluation of queerplatonic relationships. a definition borne of the aromatic and asexual communities

and who's to say it isn't romantic? if the lines and beats are romantic, does it stop being so because they're brothers? would we have the same splitting up of the ship if they weren't related? (can guess what my answer would be)

ANYWAY. this was supposed to be how one ship has been split in a way I haven't seen before and find really weird. I can see how say, on tumblr, it's nice to have a tag that's just the qpr relationship, but not to the exclusion of the main ship.

I thought on AO3 it would be more clear cut, but of the 282 tagged with "Gencest | Emotionally Incestuous but Non-Sexual Dean Winchester and Sam Winchester" only 118 are tagged with Dean/Sam. and in the 79 works tagged "Weirdcest | Dean Winchester and Sam Winchester Appear Incestuous to Others Due to Lack of Boundaries", 40 are Dean/Sam.

and while I like the expansion of the tag name to include a definition, what even is emotionally incestuous :p and if there's incest in your definition, how does that not fall under the ship rubric

but being that there's 34,387 works tagged with Dean/Sam, and while there's more things tagged with gencest pre-2020, the majority is 2019+. and weirdcest is nearly exclusively 2021+. so, large consumer of fic that I am, I am sure things that would fall under those labels weren't tagged as such in the main tag.

going back to fanlore, the article about qprs:

Queerplatonic relationship tags are canonized in freeform tags on AO3, but uses in relationship tags are synned to the / tag.[4]

and the reference is:

Cisco Ramon/Caitlin Snow (Queerplatonic) has been made a synonym of Cisco Ramon/Caitlin Snow. Works and bookmarks tagged with Cisco Ramon/Caitlin Snow (Queerplatonic) will show up in Cisco Ramon/Caitlin Snow's filter.

which honestly made me laugh. that's a very specific situation!

but I think a lot of this, for me, circles back to what is a ship even, and why doesn't love for each other above all else+life partners qualify

and yet, look at me the hypocrite, because I tag stuff with "sam and dean" that are the canonical qpr things, but I wouldn't tag wincest because I know a lot of people would have it filtered. whereas anything remotely shippy in xfiles canon, I tag with msr. *facepalm*

and the advice/explanation I've received about tagging other people's posts, canon gifs, what have you; as wincest - that you might be putting their personal squick right in their notifications. so, don't do that! and I've internalized those rules.

and I guess there's plenty of people that watch the show and think they're just regular brothers ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

spn fandom is a minefield even with my skirting at the edges of it.

I don't know what anything means anymore

#supernatural #i tag it because i want it to be caught by people's filters that wanna filter it but this also has no need to be in the main tag #sigh #wincest #gencest #weirdcest #fandom wank #I'd say I'll regret actually posting this but no one cares about my opinions so i guess it works out for the best 😂 #queerplatonic #qpr

[utilitycaster]

The wildest part about the reaction to Ashton’s comment is that Laudna herself didn’t even seem to take it personally? Her reaction to it seemed more like “ok that’s not true and I’m going to push back on it, but you’re clearly having a self destructive dark night of the soul and I want to make sure you’re okay”. Like give our girl a little more credit here.

Hey anon,

Hope you don't mind but you are getting a heavily edited and more measured part of the threatened rant because like. Yeah. That's the thing isn't it? Laudna is the one who sought out Ashton while they were drinking. And when he slips into self-pity, she tells him to snap out of it, but she's not mad. I happen to agree with this meta that Ashton isn't saying "I know loneliness and you don't"; they're saying "I know the very specific loneliness of not knowing where I came from". (I also think there's a possibility that they're saying "I know the loneliness that comes from knowing the people who weren't there when you came back to life could have been and chose not to"; it's not that Laudna didn't wake up alone the first time, it's that she was alone because everyone else was dead whereas the Nobodies could have chosen to stick by them and did not.) And then, the next day, he apologizes (something Imogen does not do), and she tells him not to be too hard on himself.

Laudna clearly looks on this conversation positively. She even brings it up when she talks with Imogen in that manner - she doesn't say "wow can you believe what that asshole said?" but rather focuses on Ashton's compliment to her. I mean, it's nothing new, for people to carefully ignore any context that might more sympathetically frame a character they hate, or to defend how perfect and traumatized their Mary Sue-ass interpretation of a female character is in such a way that it denies the actual agency and emotions of that character as portrayed on screen, but it's just as stupid every time, as is the constant insistence that the best way to have a ship is to isolate two characters such that they only have each other, that they're the only ones who can ever truly understand each other.

You know, I've seen people draw parallels between Laudna telling Imogen the choice is up to her regarding how they proceed tomorrow, and Imogen telling Laudna that the choice was up to her during her resurrection. And here's the thing: Imogen's appeal to Laudna during the resurrection failed. The goal of bringing Laudna back succeeded, but Imogen's specific attempt was a minor hindrance, not a help.

I can't help but wonder if Laudna leaving things to Imogen might end up the same; that they keep going on, together, but these hairline fractures keep building up and never healing, and perhaps one day there will be too many.

Shippers keep saying this is so beautiful because it's about giving each other choices when they've never had any, but that's patently untrue. Laudna had no choice in Delilah, but really, given how normal people even in small towns like Heartmoor Hamlet have been towards her, or the fact that she's not significantly weirder than Weva Vudol, or the fact that every shopkeeper in Exandria is, canonically, fucking bananas, there's a lot she could have done in those 30 years. I mean, she somehow made it to Gelvaan which is not exactly something you fall into from Tal'Dorei without making some kind of decision. Imogen had no choice in her powers but otherwise she's had no shortage of choices. In fact, that's quite literally what Laudna is saying: Imogen always had the option of going to live in a cottage and raise horses. Imogen has always had choices, and doesn't need to kill the gods to free herself.

For that matter, could you not draw a similar parallel between Laudna's transformation at the hands of Delilah without her choosing, and Ashton, who was part of a ritual as a young child below any reasonable age of consent that permanently changed them physically? Or FCG, who was quite literally programmed to be who they are? If you take off the shipper goggles and actually remember that there are five other characters, suddenly these parallels become far more widespread.

But also: here's the thing about leaving all the choices up to the other person. It protects you from the possibility that they might say no to you. It reframes things: had Laudna not been successfully resurrected, she's not saying no to Imogen; she's making her own choice, even though the result is the same. If Imogen goes with Otohan now, well, then Laudna can tell herself that it was Imogen's choice to side with the woman who murdered her, but at least she has the thin comfort that Imogen didn't exactly say "no" to a direct appeal; that it's merely an implied rather than explicit betrayal.

It's just...I know this campaign is a little weird in that this massive world-ending event is happening comparatively early; but also, Imogen and Laudna have known each other for two years. And obviously Imogen isn't Vex, she isn't Vax, she isn't Fjord, she isn't Beau or Yasha, but like, you know what all of those people did when they were facing a dangerous situation and thought death was imminent? They, through word or action, looked at the person they loved and didn't just say "I love you", they said "I'm in love with you", "can I kiss you," or opened the door naked. They said "I might die tomorrow and I cannot go forward without telling you that this is something more than just friendship to me," knowing that it was possible that, on the last night of their life, the person they loved might turn them down. Hell, Keyleth did initially turn Vax down, and he still did it.

Imogen and Laudna? They spent the night the same way they might have at the very beginning of the campaign - before the campaign, even. Laudna said she loved Imogen in what, episode 6? They've been sharing rooms and beds for two years. Nothing has changed in their relationship. And it is my suspicion that nothing will, until one of them actually asks something of the other. And again - that's all it will take for me to go from "this is boring and empty" to "ok, this is a ship" - for them to be able to take a risk.

I could quite honestly go on but like...this reply, which I got shortly after Laudna's death (when I said there was value in a story in which she remains dead) has haunted me since.

It really explains everything, doesn't it? It's why people were mad when I said it was valid for Imogen to be upset at Laudna about the gnarlrock; it's why they were mad that I said that there was no canonical basis for the people of Gelvaan or Relvin mistreating Imogen (in fact, it outright contradicts what we've seen in canon); it's why they hate Ashton right now. It's why if Imogen is interested in the gnarlrock as a way to find relief from her powers and gets mad at Laudna for breaking it, she sucks, but if Imogen considers starting the apocalypse to find relief from her powers it's totally fine. It's why they'll harass people for saying "you know, it could be an interesting story if Laudna dies permanently," and then turn around and offer more sympathy to Otohan - the character who would have been responsible for that permanent death - than they do to Orym, the character who has lost two family members and nearly his own life to her. Because Otohan might have murdered Laudna, but damn, at least she seems to ship it.

They don't see Imogen and Laudna as separate characters who can grow and change - they don't even refer to Laudna as her own fucking name, just as part of a portmanteau - and they are terrified whenever the two have even the slightest conflict (not unlike Imogen and Laudna themselves) because it means that the characters interact with people other than each other. Laudna dying permanently isn't a character death to them - it's "throwing [the ship] away." Laudna having other conversations and relationships is a threat to the ship, even if Laudna enjoys it - in fact, especially if Laudna enjoys it. Other people coming into Imogen's dreams with the express purpose of helping her is a threat. Because if either of the characters ever realize that this codependency isn't serving them, and that they have other people who will stand by them and won't leave them to their loneliness...well. The constant reassurances that they have each other might no longer be enough if they have other people.

That's why the shippers are mad at Ashton. Yes, because it's a possible competing ship; but also because they pointed out that Laudna had six people by her when she woke up, not just one, and that opens the door to Laudna realizing she has other people who will stand by her, and who aren't openly and repeatedly entertaining an alliance with her murderer. They do not actually give a shit about how Laudna feels.

#answered #Anonymous #long post #critical role #critical role spoilers #me @ laudna: girl your security blanket is full of asbestos fibers #anyway for those wanting more rants in this vein please feel free to ask me why this is not comparable to caleb and veth's relationship #or uh. really anything about why it's like. not good or interesting as a ship

[cellard0ors]

I don't know if this is the same anon twice or if two different anons are asking the same question in a different way, but my personal NSFW head canons for hackearney are thus (and spoiler alert, I've written a good few of them):

Travis:

* LOVES Laura's breasts. They're one of his favorite things to play with and touch.

* Enjoys taking Laura from behind, but is still a wee bit self conscious about it - because what was once considered taboo is now vanilla doesn't change the fact that Travis grew up during that taboo time. If his Ma knew he'd fantasized about that sort of thing growing up...😬

* Honestly could care less about his own pleasure. Sure, he enjoys blowjobs and the like, but his partner's pleasure is what really gets him going. It's how he's always approached sex, because while he enjoys it, he's never taken much from it. EXCEPT, of course, when it's Laura - from that he takes everything, because it means so much to him.

* Travis loves going down on Laura - this is just a hackearney staple in the ship, tbh - I just agree with it like every other shipper 🤣

Laura:

* Dirty talks - otherwise he doesn't make much sound during sex past groaning

* Knows Laura probably has sex toys but doesn't like to think about it. Partly due to jealousy and partly due to the frustration that he can't just magically appear when she feels like sex

* Worries about his age and sex drive thanks to their age gap. There's been a few sex fails and he feels they're all his fault - Laura tells him otherwise, but it's a concern.

*... clearly the only solution to the problem is to make sure he has sex with Laura as often as possible.

* Dated quite a bit before Travis - even before Max! Most of the relationships were the innocent kind of puppy love adolescents can have - sharing kisses and all - but as she got up higher in her teens she went farther than most pretty quickly. That being said, while she enjoys sex and her previous lovers weren't too shabby they're nothing compared to Travis.

* Sex with Travis makes Laura feel like her previous sexual encounters were trash - mainly because Travis is so good at making her cum. He's like an evil sex demon...

*...an evil sex demon she loves!

* Is good at blowjobs and can deep throat but only at certain intervals - it's definitely harder with Travis who is...bigger...than her previous partners.

* Laura is LOUD. She tries not to be, because it's almost embarrassing how energetic and loud she can be during sex. She doesn't want to sound like an overeager porn star, but it does seem to come across that way - again, especially with Travis.

* Laura was loud with Max and her previous lovers - with Travis she's damn near deafening.

* Loves Travis hands! Everything about them - she wants them all over her body.

* She's also a fan of his nose. It's funny, because she's pretty sure he hates it, and she's pretty sure the feeling of it against her folds is one of the greatest things she's ever felt.

* If it was up to her, she'd probably have public sex with Travis - but considering he's surprisingly shy and vanilla, she has to take her time in coaching him into that idea

* Thought she didn't like dirty talk until Travis introduced her to it. She loves the filthy things he says during sex and loves to egg him on - adding her own dirty talk to the mix.

Together:

* Enjoy the aftermath as much as the actual act. The cooling down of their bodies, the slowing of their heart rates, the snuggling...❤️

Think those are the basics. Might be more, but those are the building blocks of how I approach them. 😉

#hackearney #travis x laura #my writing #cellar answers

[hyperactivewhore]

how do you feel abt klaroline? i always hated them together; i love the them both but i hate them as a couple

Short answer? I hate them.

Long answer? Well, apart from the fact that they're obviously a screwed up ship made only to please fans (Candice literally confirmed it) and that made Klaus and Caroline incredibly ooc, they just don't make sense and their personalities are too different. And their fans are a big no, the most I've encountered are so toxic and the major problematic part of the fandom (not all of them, before anyone starts crying).

Klaus wasn't in love with Caroline, he just had a weird obsession with her and Caroline was attracted to him in a sexual way, but she was in love with Tyler. They were never "romantic", they had a physical relationship that revolved about Klaus wanting to fuck her.

And once he did, he never bothered to check on her or even give her his condolences after her mother's death. If Klaus loved Caroline, as their shippers assure and swear, he wouldn't have treated her like shit. I mean, even when Stefan asked him if he was still in love with her, Klaus looked close to laughing imo and that should answer everything. And yeah, he asked him if he was gonna do the right thing by her, but that doesn't mean he's in love with Caroline: caring about someone doesn't equal romantic love.

And once more, after that, Klaus forgot about her again. If they were in love, one of them would have seeked the other at least in those seven years Klaus had the hollow inside, or they would have, idk, said "I love you" when he was literally dying. But they didn't, because Klaus was still in love with Cami, the woman he said he'll carry with him forever, and Caroline still wore her wedding ring and she literally said she would love Stefan forever.

So if they were made endgame (thanks god it didn't happen), canonically Klaus would still be thinking about Cami and Caroline would still love Stefan. And don't get me with the whole "however long it takes" because Klaus is always saying things he doesn't mean to get what he wants. His family was a mess and Caroline wouldn't have been able to stand that, especially because Hayley and Rebekah didn't like her, and knowing the personalities of the other siblings they wouldn't be fans of her either.

If somehow that wasn't enough, when Hayley told him she understood what he was going through after losing Cami, Klaus snapped and literally called Camille his true connection, comparing her to Elijah. The quote is literally "you want to commiserate with me, Hayley, but our experiences of grief are not the same. Your husband is dead. It hurts, but we both know the person you share a true connection with is still breathing. So you and I are not the same."

He compared Cami, who was very dead at that moment with Elijah, the man Hayley loved romantically the most. So if that isn't enough proof Klaus loved Cami the most of all his love interests, then I don't know what it is. And he literally sacrificed himself for Cami in s2 when Mikael attacked them. He didn't know the stake wasn't gonna work and that he would come back, so yeah.

I love Klaus, I don't like Caroline but still. Their characters are good, but not meant to be in a relationship. Klaus always put his family first, a family that hated Caroline; so if he had to chose and he would have to eventually, he would, without a doubt, chose his family over her.

So anyway, yes. I love talking shit about klaroline, one of my favorite hobbies.

#klaus mikaelson #caroline forbes #anti klaroline #hayley marshall #camille o'connell #elijah mikaelson #haylijah #the originals #the vampire diaries #tvd #to #niklaus mikaelson #klamille

[kataraslove]

I just really hope that the new ATLA movie will be interesting, bright and exciting, that it will pay tribute to all the characters, but especially to Katara. And there will be kataang in it: wonderful, respectful, supportive relationships. And a huge number of pro-Katara, pro-Aang and pro-kataang new fans will come to the fandom. I hope that the time will come when a respectful and competent and deeper gaze of the canon and canonical characters will dominate the fandom, and the toxic z/tara will remain in the minority (I have nothing against zutara as a ship but I am against lying about characters and hatred, and, unfortunately, I saw most of this in the z/tara fandom). Let the era of peace and kindness finally come for the fandom, as Zuko would say.

one can only hope for that, anon! after that leaked image of adult gaang came out, i saw antis do a complete 180 about their perceptions on kataang. so who knows? however, considering that it's been 15 years, i don't think perceptions on here - or in other places - are really going to change much from people who vehemently despise kataang. i think every interaction and scene between katara and aang, no matter how positive it is, will be spun to be made as if it's negative. i mean, we literally saw their reactions to a COOKBOOK that stated that aang liked to cook for katara. "wow, i can't believe you need a cookbook to confirm that aang does the bare minimum," or, my personal favourite, "katara has to literally baby aang by controlling how much sugar he eats!"

that being said, i'm not interested in changing the minds of people who genuinely believe kataang to be an abusive relationship. what i do want instead is for the adult gaang movie to provide a fandom environment in which kataang shippers are not afraid to admit that they ship kataang. for a whole week after the leaked image was released, there was a kataang renaissance that occurred on twitter, with viral kataang tweets and people coming out and admitting that they enjoyed kataang. much like the kataang renaissance that occurred after the legend of korra first aired (with canon confirmation that katara and aang had three children before bryke ripped that perfect family perception to shreds), i want that same thing to happen following the adult gaang movie, except in a much larger scale, with much more fandom content.

at the end of the day, though, what i really want is for katara to be done justice by this movie; for her to receive the recognition that she deserves after 15 long years of absolutely null. i do believe that she will receive justice in the form of good writing and canon recognition - the signs are all there - but at the same time, i am a little cautious just because it is bryke behind the wheels. those two, in their efforts to explore what they believe to be nuance, tend to leave out a whole bunch of details. simply put, they're not the best writers, and even worse, they've been horrible at receiving criticism in the past. so i hope those are attributes of theirs that have changed over the years, as they've matured and gained more industry experience. i think it has, just based on the things that i've heard from the two, and the fact that they're now part of a gigantic hollywood megacorporation and streaming service that is dependent on the success of avatar studios. speaking of which, you have no idea just how much paramount is riding on avatar studios to become a commercial success. the fate and future of avatar studios are absolutely reliant on this adult gaang movie becoming a huge commercial hit.

... which is my other area of concern. just what are bryke willing to do to ensure that the movie will be a huge hit? what plot points will they introduce? what will they do with the characters? i don't think that they're going to pander to fandom demands (have certain ships become romantic) because they said that they're not going to do that. at the same time, however, what exactly are they going to do? katara and aang aren't the most popular characters in the series, their romantic relationship is an area of contention and controversy among the fanbase; from a business standpoint, how exactly will avatar studios handle this? i don't want any cheap, convoluted, soap-opera. i also don't want a marvel movie in the form of avatar. i want fulfilling character arcs and dynamics and plot points that stay true to the themes of avatar the last airbender. as we've seen with the kyoshi novels, we know that the spirit of avatar can be replicated if the right creative voices are in the writing room, holding the pen.

i suppose that's something that bryke will have to deal with and figure out. no use losing sleep over things we know nothing about. just based on the things that i've seen and read, the contextual clues over the years, the new content from avatar studios, i think we can expect the best, especially as kataang shippers. however, i do approach this whole scenario with some (read: a lot of) caution.

but i absolutely agree with you here (and what you said about zutara shippers):

And a huge number of pro-Katara, pro-Aang and pro-kataang new fans will come to the fandom. I hope that the time will come when a respectful and competent and deeper gaze of the canon and canonical characters will dominate the fandom.

i long for a future in which katara fandom analysis isn't essentially, "she's horribly mistreated by the gaang as their resident Mother. that is, until zuko the liberator comes save her. this is why she would be a perfect firelady." if nothing else, please let the outcome of the movie allow for nuanced perspectives of katara's character.

#kataang #but tbh i've kind of reached that fandom threshold where i'm like idrgaf what you say this is MY interpretation in which i have every right #to hold #sometimes i think about the adult gaang movie and kind of worry but then shrug my shoulders and go 'eh that's a bryke problem' #i just hope they don't sellout their artistic integrity for business god i hate when creators do #like say what you will about lok but that was all their stupid decisions that were subjected to fierce budget cuts #like i respect them in that sense that they will make the Worst Writing Decision Possible (losing the past lives) with their full chest #anyway long story short i think bryke has a lot of potential so long as they're not writing shit #i wholeheartedly believe in u kenneth lin

[sparkles-rule-4eva]

https://www.tumblr.com/bebeiaarts/673335597863256064/my-headcanon

Went ahead and read this post. And laughed a little, ngl.

It's basically a defense post for shipping Sonic with human girls, and a hate post towards Sonamy/Sonally shippers. Called 'em all "fanbrats." Immediate generalization, assuming all of us are the same.

I'm a Sonamy shipper, not Sonally. Why I don't ship Sonally? All I've seen of Sally -- while she's generally a good person -- she's very controlling, especially of Sonic himself. She doesn't like Sonic for who he is; she's constantly trying to make him more serious and their personalities clash an awful lot. But does that mean I hate on and judge Sonally shippers? No. It's just a ship with fictional characters, peeps. Lighten up. I don't get triggered if I see others making art for them and stuff. I just move on because it's not for me.

Ah, yeah, Amy's worse qualities HAVEN'T disappeared? Sorry, could someone remind me of a time during the IDW comics, during Frontiers, during MOSTH, when Amy was making Sonic uncomfortable with stalker-esque behavior? Right. There wasn't any. It's a little something called character development and maturity. Happens as one grows older.

And this isn't the first time I've seen people complain that they're turning Amy into Sally 2.0. Actually, they're not. Amy Rose has a heart for people that Sally never did. In IDW, Amy took over the Resistance and changed it into the Restoration because Knuckles disbanded it on a whim, and she couldn't bear to see so many people displaced and in trouble. Because she's got that heart and LOVE for people. That passion.

Amy loves Sonic exactly for who he is. (I've talked a little about this before but will gladly elaborate for those who refuse to see.) She outright said to him, "I can't change you. I don't want to change you."

She loves that he's an adventurer. She loves that he has a heart for people like she does as well. She loves everything about him -- through anything.

Another person claimed they didn't ship Sonamy because "Amy only loves the hero facade Sonic puts on." Sorry, remember that episode in Sonic X where it showed Amy was well aware of Sonic's dislike/fear of water, and instead of getting angry or disappointed with him, she made him a good luck charm bracelet to make him feel better? Or that time when she scolded Knuckles for making fun of said fear? Or when he was badly electrocuted to the point of unconsciousness and she stepped up to take care of him? Or when she dove into a giant mass of water after him, knowing she might not be able to save him but not wanting him to be alone? I could go on and on.

That love of hers, that passion, is also for people in general (he's just #1 in her heart, according to Sega). In Frontiers, she showed concern for him when he appeared to be struggling. She shared her desires to share her love with the world, even if it meant taking them apart, and he encouraged her to do so, adding that he wanted to hear all about it when she got back.

Pardon us for feeling like Sonamy is more canon after Frontiers. I'd like to see YOU come up with a platonic explanation for "Wish we were sharing an umbrella, Amy," and "Amy, I should've made up my mind sooner."

Also, it's pretty unlikely Amy is still 12. They stopped confirming their ages years ago. With how much has been happening, I wouldn't be surprised if they're all aged up several years.

"Thinking we know better than Sega themselves." Bruh, "Sega themselves" have confirmed time and time again that Sonic has feelings for Amy. The only reason (besides the mandates lol) he hasn't confessed to her is because

Sonic isn't good at dealing with feelings

Sonic isn't ready for a relationship at this point in his life/doesn't need one

Sonic loves Amy, and Amy loves Sonic. But they're both aware that Sonic doesn't want a relationship for the time being, so they're fine being friends.

Pardon the rant, lol. And jsyk, this isn't necessarily a persuasive speech. If this convinced you to ship Sonamy, cool! If it didn't, I don't care. Again, these are just ships with fictional characters. I have fun with them. I don't get outraged if people don't ship what I do. If you don't like it, move past this post and keep scrolling. See if I care. 😂

#sonic the hedgehog #sonic #sth #sonic rant #sonamy #anonymous asks #anonymous #anon #anon ask #ship wars #i guess lol #sonally #sonic posting #sonamy vs sonally #i don't intend to make posts like this a habit btw #i got mildly ticked off but i try to keep my blog mostly fluffy #with angst i guess here and there haha #only when the canon and fanon require it #but i don't normally like arguing around #especially about simple things like this #im passionate about sonamy but not about ship wars lol #no thanks lol #not a fan of fandom drama #sonamy defense

[psychewritesbs]

Maybe I'll regret sending you this ask but it's like a thorn in my side and I need to get it out because I can't stop thinking about this so here I go 🙇‍♀️

If I don't see the romantic subtext in Gojo and Geto's dynamic, does that mean I'm not really understanding what Gege is telling? I like their dynamic, they're complex characters and so is their dynamic, but not because there is romance there. Of course, if I read and look to see romance there I find it... but I'm looking to interpret it that way. So when I see "the subtext is there", "the dynamic is ambiguous", I start to question my interpretation... I don't know if it's because my reading comprehension has already been attacked when I said their relationship isn't canon. I really tried to see that ambiguity since I started reading the manga but in the end I felt like I was reading too much... that I was actively searching for something that was supposed to be in plain sight.

P.S: I have seen ships with ambiguous dynamics in SNK, HQ, Naruto (NARUSASU, I don't even ship them but I understand 😅) and I never saw this war between shippers and non-shippers...

Nooooo anon 😭. Please, I promise I don't bite too hard.

So, first of all, thanks for sending this. I'm ngl, it makes me sad to think that I might have contributed to someone feeling like I would make you regret asking about something you don't see.

Second, I'm going to make this answer about perception because the purpose of my blog is psych.

Third, as a lead up to the psych stuff, it goes without saying that one of the reasons I don't talk about shipping in jjk is precisely because shipping is highly personal, and a lot of people in this fandom take their interpretations about the story as absolute truths, to the point that they gaslight anyone who doesn't agree with them.

It's like we're all just deploying domain expansions and the one person with the strongest sense of self wins. Right?

But this is a HUGE irony because Gege has gone on record in an interview saying that one of the themes at the core of jjk is that there is no such thing as an ultimate truth where someone is right and someone is wrong.

(source)

And to me this gets at a much larger issue that I taco'bout under the cut.

So this is the thing, right?

If you don't see the subtext in stsg, there are a lot of factors affecting your perception. Gender, sexuality, background, etc etc...

The thing to keep in mind is that you don't see the world as it is...

So I love that second angry anon brought up the idea that someone who is straight would very likely see gjhm as a romantic pairing, because it's true!

This is really complicated because, yes, heteronormativity is at play here, AND that doesn't mean a straight person is being homophobic for not seeing the stsg subtext without putting on pink-colored fujo glasses.

That said, I have seen the jjk dudebros be total dicks because they think that, because they are straight and the target demographic, the only way the story should be perceived is as if most all characters are straight and you are delusional to think otherwise.

And I'll be honest here, I'm a bi/pan woman. I am also a fujoshi. I've read quite a bit of bl/yaoi, and I think that has influenced why I don't see the romantic subtext without looking for it.

Basically, I've read really long threads by stsg fans that were meant to provide evidence for why they are canon that I was just like "this is all a subjective perception" and that is not to say they are wrong.

More like, YES. I couldn't agree more with you. It's there if you look for it. I am not sure if you saw this, but someone else came through sharing the same sentiment as you.

For me, little details like the battle taking place on December 24th, and Gege recommending bl before, point at a certain ambiguity that Gege might want to create without confirming anything.

It's funny that baity anon said stuff like "Gege is throwing irrelevant breadcrumbs at these shippers" when the same could be said about stsg according to many, many, MANY people.

Who is right? Who is wrong? If a group of people can see it and another can't, who owns the ultimate truth?

If Gege doesn't explicitly say "stsg is the other dynamic that is canonical along with mechamiwa", then who gets to have the authority on how to interpret the story? And who gave them that authority? And why are they ignoring subtext that doesn't suit their agenda?

I'm asking both sides for the sake of being a devil's advocate btw lol.

The thing is, it's all subjective, and there is no such thing as an ultimate truth where someone is right and someone is wrong--what there is is people arriving at conclusions based on their own logic according to who they are.

In the end, we're all looking at jjk through our own subjective lens, which is inevitably made up of many different factors.

That ramble aside, I hate that your reading comprehension was attacked because you can't see what someone else can see. That's just lame af because it tells me this is someone arrogant enough to take their opinion as absolute truth, and insecure enough to make someone else feel bad for questioning their interpretation.

As someone who has been internet-mean and who has wrongfully thought she owned the truth about something in the past, I apologize that someone has made you feel this way.

The reason this is a bigger issue than just shipping is because this issue is prevalent across fandom.

jjk dudebros will have you believe that if someone reads jjk for anything that is not battles is wrong.

Others will gaslight people and call them dumb for being open about how they don't understand how Gege explains certain things.

By the way, Maki is better than Toji according to some, but not to others.

I'm telling you, for jjk being a story about how there is no absolute truth, we sure are attached to our interpretations as being the ultimate truth.

All I know is that I don't want to be part of the problem and that starts with me making space for understanding why someone would disagree with me or think differently than I do.

Here's the last thing I'll say, anon.

If you don't see the stsg subtext as romantic, then you are indeed missing out on a romantic interpretation. If that's not something you're interested in... that's no one's "problem" but yours.

As long as you aren't seeking to minimize someone else's perception, then it's your interpretation and yours alone.

For me, I see this:

And I fucking love this spread because I see deep and intense longing. I get the sense Gojo is looking really hard for any semblance of Geto in this body.

Do you see something romantic? Yes? No?

It doesn't really change anything, does it? It just means someone reads into something you don't see.

The fact that you are questioning whether you are "really understanding" the text "right" tells me you have the humility to look to adjust your perception and be open to other ideas.

There's a difference between saying "I don't see it" and "I don't see it and neither should you because I don't see it, and if you do, you are delusional!"

Which one are you?

Which one will you be moving forward?

Thanks for coming to my TED talk looool.

I went on a raaaaant bahaha.

I just... man... this is the kind of problem that shipping in this fandom creates. As you said... imagine just wanting to mind your own business and someone who ships a certain pairing comes and tells you you are an idiot for not reading the same way as they do. OR viceversa, you're shipping along, minding your own business and someone tells you you are delusional for enjoying a ship.

Come on....

It really is a matter of perception and we're quite literally spamming domain expansions on each other as a way to impose our personal truth on others as absolute. It's really ironic and funny ngl.

This reminds me...

Idk if you've seen any Gundam shows, but at least the ones I've seen, usually the plot revolves around how war and conflict is the result of two sides of the same coin being unwilling to accept a different point of view.

So anyways. As I said in that baity ask... I'm at a point in my life where I'd rather focus on holding the tension of opposites. It's just where I'm at.

Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts anon!

Don't let others define your perception! If you do, you've already turned your back on the only person whose perception matters most--you.

#ask the mental gymnastics anime girl

[findafight]

It is tiring to be regarded as a 'homophobe' when you claim to not like a queer ship or say you do not think a queer ship is going to be canon & should not go canon. ST fandom has this type of fans especially Bylers and recently Ronancers. Sorry that I do not think Byler has a chance of being wrapped up in a nice way when the writers actively refused to even breakup Mileven in this season and intentionally added a confession scene on the show from Mike to El. We literally have 1 season left with everything else going on in a limited time frame but I am expected to be okay with the possible resolution of this whole thing, and should expect a nice wrap up where we supposedly will see Mileven break up, Mike and El moving on from each other, there will be a time for them to adjust to that, for Mike to consider dating Will HECK even for Will to consider confessing and dating Mike, for the writers to make that all believable to the audience in a nice way within the narrative.... and I am expected to like Ronance when Stobin is one of the most important platonic relationships on the show and we canonically know Nancy and Steve's break up was bad, and that Steve still has feelings for Nancy. I want to see representation, I really do but it feels like the fandom itself is bending any logic and sensibility to make a ship seem reasonable and make sense within the narrative... when it really does not.

God. Yeah. Like sure queer people can have internalized homophobia or intra community basis (like bi/a/trans phobia) etc but to say someone's a bigot just because they don't like the a fictional ship, or even that they just don't think it will be canon, is just silly and causing problems on purpose.

The intense blr shippers have really turned me off the ship, honestly. I have a few asks from them saved as drafts just to get them out of my inbox, and they're saying the same as others "we're fighting homophobia" "you're just as bad as people saying why don't we shut up about blr and ship mlvn if you don't think this has been part of a grand and epic master plan for the greatest romance ever" as well as just not understanding what the very specific phenomena of queerbaiting is, all telling me I don't belong in the ship because I don't ship it correctly. So. Makes me feel bad and really disappointed. People who ship mlvn (which my original post was also tagged, because it discusses them too) DIDNT come to my inbox and call me names or a fake shipper when I said I thought they should break up. Make of that what you will.

As much as Will and Mike getting together would mean to people, putting that much emotional weight and expectation and emphasis on a single aspect of a show, a single ship, is not healthy. It also, if it does happen, will not be the epic romance planned from the start they think it is. (We remember tjlc, right?? RIGHT??) If it happens it will possibly be slap dash and rushed, because you're right. There's a lot happening, the show struggles with ending/starting romances, and they are NOT the only characters that matter. The breathing room required for both Mike and El AND the audience to make the breakup feel real and that enough time has passed to not make Mike look like an asshole for immediately dating his ex's brother (and for Will not to look like an ass for dating his sister's ex?!?) Is now insufficient given how short the seasons are, and as you said, they should've broken up in S4 to pull that off.

And then the fandom would likely feel a bit cheated after building it up so much in their heads, only for it to be a bit of a flop. But I guess a lot of people don't mind how Nancy and Jonathan got together, so with the way some of the people in my inbox were talking about El then it could be like that too. Just. Not giving a shit if someone, a character I personally love, was really hurt and betrayed by her recently ex boyfriend and her BROTHER.

Pretending it was all fine because romantic love is the most important thing ever to them I guess. When it's not, especially in the show! Non romantic bonds are so important to these characters! It would just ruin it for me, because what I was originally saying was that Will, Mike, and El all mean so much to each other and actively try to not hurt one another (even if the do accidentally or end up hurting themselves) and that, because Will and El are siblings now, Will might think twice about dating Mike so soon after he broke up with El. It would make them look cold hearted and selfish tbh. That's why a good ending would be Will feeling comfortable enough to come out, and being accepted by his friends. (All of them not just Mike) and that final emphasis on the Party as a whole rather than individual Romo relationships.

It's actually very important to consider other people's feelings in everyday life, I think. Sure, ultimately they shouldn't dictate all your actions, but there will be consequences for some of them. They can lose friendships, or other relationships. It can also make a character look REALLY BAD.

For rnce, people go on about how Robin absolutely does not need to consider Steve's feelings in pursuing a girl. (Ignoring other issues people have with the ship that have nothing to do with Steve, lol) And sure. Okay. For every girl but the one that broke his heart, cheated on him, and who he still has feelings for that Robin herself encouraged. People are out here saying they could be endgame without completely ruining stobin's friendship like huh??? Do they understand Robin "what if we just combined" Buckley? Do they not care about the most important relationship in her life? Do they not care about her beyond how she can hype up Nancy instead of one of those icky boys?

A problem I have with rnce is that a lot of the writing saying it could be canon (which, lbr, it won't be. While I think blr may be canon just in a kind of disappointing way, I don't think there's any chance of rnce happening, especially with Vickie right there blushing and flirting with Robin) only focuses on how it would be good for Nancy, or if it's trying to make it seem good for Robin ignores their personalities and other relationships. Like Nancy isn't annoyed by Robin until Robin's speech gets them into Penherst, or that Nancy wasn't dismissive of Robin's ideas, and Robin wasn't clearly nervous and apologizing for being annoying in order to get Nancy to like her (tbh I think Nancy should have been the one pursuing a friendship with Robin instead of the other way around but alas). Tbh I could go on about how Nancy and her relationships and her needs/wants inside those are often misdirected? Misidentified? By fandom, and how that feeds into Robin being reduced to someone who supports Nancy (which, if people complain about Robin considering her bffs feelings about her dating someone, shouldn't they complain about her becoming a glorified cheerleader for Nancy...oh. it's because it's romantic. And some parts of this fandom value that most.) In rnce, which strips Robin of her personality and makes it boring. But this is already long haha (Not to mention it'd be super weird for Nancy to be dating her ex she cheated on and never actually told she cheated on him's best friend. Awkward!!)

I used to not mind rnce that much, tbh. I didn't get it and did think it was weird but the art was cute! And now it's sort of an alarm bells for people being weird about stobin.

Steve and Robin's relationship, like so many platonic relationships but more glaring with just how obsessed with each other they are, is often devalued by the fandom by virtue of the idea that a romantic partner needs/should be someone's number 1. Even though those two want to combine, and are seen taking active roles in trying to get them a romantic relationship, and are really the first person the other felt they could be completely themself around. They're the most important person to the other, regardless of their romantic relationship status.

#stranger things #mike wheeler #will byers #robin buckely #nancy wheeler #steve Harrington #el hopper #stranger things meta #findaanswers #anonasaurus #fandom wank #kind of? #finda's rambles #anti ronance