#I mean the creators said that was the canon ship anyway

[antimony-medusa]

One of the things that I think sometimes gets lost when we talk about what's appropriate in fandom spaces is the notion that things can be appropriate in one space, but not for another. And that doesn't mean that the thing that's inappropriate in that setting is wrong, it just means that it's rude in that space. I think people want a single set of rules that's appropriate everywhere, but the thing is, you have to be able to assess the situation, and adjust your behaviour accordingly.

So an example. I have a fairly popular text post that was me asking about c!phil and religion in all innocence, and someone said "the only thing I have to say about c!phil is that he worships on his knees, thank you and goodnight". And I reblogged it like "I can't believe I forgot about how this fandom does phil analysis", cause it was at the height of the dilfza memes.

Anyways that's obviously a phil-is-happily-married/oral sex joke, in an oblique innuendo way, and on this site, where Phil is not here, and his friends are not here, with it being clear I was talking about the block man character, and we make jokes about sex and profanity (a very popular url scheme for a long time was "[name]shugecock" (or smalldick, depending on the joke)— that's a fine joke to make. I'm an adult, I can make sex jokes about fictional characters on the sex joke fictional character social media site.

If I was to make that joke in Philza's twitch chat, a) in his face, b) with his wife modding, c) in an enviroment where people aren't prepped for sex jokes, d) with it being not clear if I was talking about the cubito or about the real guy, that would be wildly inappopriate. I would be banned in every chat Philza mods in and I would deserve it.

That doesn't mean that it's inappropriate to make the joke in the first place though, just because I wouldn't do it at a Phil meet and greet. It means you gotta learn to read the room. (And like, sometimes it's hard to learn to read the room, but you can do it by pure brute-force memorization. I did.)

This is the same theory that underlies the fact that you can call your friends a bitch in a friendly way, because you are friends and you know each other's boundaries, but if you call your boss a bitch, you will be fired. There are rules about workplace appropriateness, and there are rules about what's appropriate in front of kids (I teach teens, I do not swear in front of them, I swear a LOT in front of my roommate), and there are rules about what's appropriate in different fandom spaces. Participating in an exchange about pregnancy and babies with your favourite blorbo of the moment? Great. Showing the actor gift art you got of him pregnant? No. Bad. Go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect two hundred dollars.

The thing that concerns me is that I think there are slight signs that as we get more comfortable with sexy jokes and offcolour remarks as a MCYT fandom (QSMP is the big banner example but it happens with other smps), we're taking what's appropriate in one space (tumblr, home of the brain worms, where I have seen the blog "philzaswetpussy" on my dash), and we're bringing it into places that it's not appropriate (sure, slimeariana is clearly canon, but maybe don't put the actual dicks-out fan art in the art tag on twitter that slime checks). Cause we can obviously tell that the rules twitter is going with are silly for here, so it's full speed ahead for roier/spreen etc, but the trick here is that it's full speed ahead HERE, or in fandom servers, and not necessarily in the streamer's faces.

We have a bunch of situations where creators have said that it's not their place to weigh in on shipping or nsfw etc, and people have taken that as a go ahead and that's fine, but thats still something where I'd like, caution people that just because they said "not gonna look at it not my deal", that doesn't mean that like, you should make it difficult for them to avoid looking at it. Talking about scitties is an honourable tradition, but telling scar that he makes you question your sexuality in his TTS— I made a horrified noise in real life and the cats came to look at me.

And I'm talking about the shipping, but this is also a thing with like— sometimes I see a streamer and I go "my friend you just vividly described neurodivergent symptoms" but it is ABSOLUTELY not my place to say that in their chat. It might not even be appropriate to make comments about it on my blog, with the amount of followers I have. I have to keep the "streamer just described the ADHD experience again :pensive:" comments for the group chat. And we all nod and go "yeah sounds like streamer", and we do not put it in his face, cause that's inappropriate.

We get to have fun with the fictional characters, including off-colour fun, but we still have to remember that there are real people who don't know us who are steering those fictional characters around, and it can be profoundly weird to see some of the (stuff that is appropriate in fandom spaces!) just up in your face in the regular fan art tag.

Just think about the space you're in, and who you're in front of, and if a CC notice is actually likely, and if a CC notice would be Very Bad actually with what you're doing, and keep the "world's sluttiest absent father" bracket (with associated slutty fan art) for here, not with the streamer tagged on twitter.

#discourse #medusas banger posts #fandom meta

[eddiezpaghetti]

It has come to my attention that SOME OF YOU who read my last Byler post remain UNCONVINCED. So I'm gonna tack onto it this:

I'm older than fucking God and air, and I've been out and proud since 2007. Yes, I know what homophobia is, and yes, I know what queerbaiting is. I know about Supernatural and Teen Wolf and Sherlock and blahdyblahdyblah. No new ground is being covered here. I thought I made that clear in the original post, but, clearly, I did not.

I am aware of queerbaiting and homophobia, and I'm still wholeheartedly certain in Byler being canon anyway.

Okay, so there are three types of relationship I want to discuss when it comes to queerbaiting. They're all, like, "queer relationships that could have happened, but didn't".

First off, queer-coding. This isn't really a thing so much anymore, but it still crops up every once in a while. I'd argue it probably happens most with male-male relationships in family shows these days. First example that comes to mind is Mr. Smiley and Mr. Frowny from Steven Universe. You can't make a relationship canon because some shitty overhead bastard overhead said no, so you get as close as you can without compromising the show. Can't make someone gay? Well, now their comedy routine is a blatant allegory for a romantic relationship. Boom-shaka-laka. This is something I don't see being a problem with regards to Stranger Things, but I want it to be there as contrast, a demonstration of one of many things queerbaiting is not. However, one could argue that, thus far, Will Byers is, canonically, queer-coded. It's pretty fucking heavily implied in the show, and the creators have confirmed it, and you're gonna be able to see it if you're not FUCKING BLIND, but word of god is not technically canon which means that interviews don't technically make something canon, blahdyblahdyblahdyblah, technicalities, Robin has been explicitly stated in the text to be queer while Will has, thus far, not, outside of good ol' Show-Don't-Tell. Of course, anyone with two brain cells to rub together can tell that that's going to change by the end of Season 5, but, hey, for what it's worth, I'm throwing this out there.

Alrighty, Thingamajingama Number Two: "Oops, I accidentally made the greatest love story known to man." AKA, a genuine, honest-to-goodness mistake. Unfortunately, we do live in a heteronormative society. Sometimes people who don't think about being gay much write a friendship that's incredibly compelling and don't even consider the possibility that it could have been read as romantic. Something something Top Gun something. This is, again, not queerbaiting. This is Steddie, this is Ronance, this is Elmax, this is your favorite flavor of non-canon ship this week, this is not Byler. The creators know DAMN well what they're doing. They've talked about it. We know this. Nothing new here.

Which brings us to the topic of discussion here. Actual queerbaiting. This usually starts out as an "accidental greatest love story", and then reacts to fan response. And when I say "reacts", I mean like a goddamn chemical reaction. Like bleach and ammonia, bitch. It's noxious and it's gonna kick your fucking ass without mercy. This is when a creator is like, "Hey, let's get our queer audience invested, but we're not actually going to give them what they want because our straight audience isn't here for that/we personally think it's gross/we don't give enough of a shit to want to research a goddamn thing to write a real gay character," blah blah blah whatever excuse they want to come up with this time.

And when you think "queerbaiting", I want you to think "bullying". Because that's what it is. It's lucrative bullying, like beating us up and taking our lunch money, but it's bullying all the same. And it's a real goddamn thing, even if people misuse the word a lot, often when they mean one of the two above, sometimes when they mean "bury your gays", which is another homophobic thing entirely that I'm not going to get into here. Queerbaiting is the thing we're focused on, and it's real, and it's bullying. And here's the reason I want you to think of it as bullying:

They

Think

It's

Funny.

They are actively making fun of us.

That's why Dean had the "Cas, get out of my ass," line in Supernatural. It's why the "Do you like boys?" line happened in Teen Wolf. It's why "Lie with me, Watson," happened in the RDJ Sherlock Holmes movies. Because "It's just a joke, mate." "It was just a prank, bro." "You didn't really think it would happen, did you?" "You should see your face."

So here's probably the biggest reason I don't think it's specifically queerbaiting in this specific instance of Will Byers and Mike Wheeler.

Stranger Things has never, not once, made a gay joke. Ever.

Every single time queerness comes up, it's dead serious.

Lonnie calls Will a fag, and the show is not at all reluctant to show what a goddamn horrible person he is. And when Hopper latches onto that, it's not as "Hahah, is he gay, though?" It's because he's trying to determine a potential motive for Will's disappearance, and even if someone had interpreted it as a joke, Joyce immediately has a line that functions as snapping her fingers in front of the audience's face and yelling "FOCUS" when she says "He's MISSING." Basically outright saying "This isn't funny!"

Troy calls him a fairy, along with targeting Lucas and Dustin for their skin color and disability respectively, and Mike gets damn near murderous. Troy is portrayed as a goddamn monster and the show portrays it as justice when El makes him piss his pants and later breaks his arm.

Steve calls Jonathan "queer" as a slur and gets the shit beat out of him for it.

Billy's father is revealed to be homophobic and abusive in the same breath.

Mike says "It's not my fault you don't like girls!" and we're shown how devastated Will is and Mike immediately follows him to beg for forgiveness.

There is a joke in Robin's coming-out scene, but it's not at Robin's expense. It's at Steve's. Specifically for being heteronormative.

Jonathan has multiple scenes where he's trying so hard to tell Will that he's always going to love him as he is, whether he's gay or not, without pressuring him to come out before he's ready.

Even when there's a little bit of ribbing at Robin's expense, it's always because she's an awkward nerd who's nervous around pretty girls, just the same as Lucas and Dustin are teased when they both first develop crushes on Max, and even then, even then, it always comes as a package deal where they make fun of Steve's girl problems at the same time.

Stranger Things is an emphatically pro-gay show. It may not be the core point of the show the way it is in, say, Our Flag Means Death, but there is nothing less than respect for its queer characters. Its queer characters are always taken completely seriously. No one is making fun of us. They never have. That's why I have serious doubts that this is queerbaiting. It would come completely out of left field for the bullying to start in Stranger Things' final season.

So it's not at all likely to be queerbaiting because queerness is taken completely seriously. The creators have talked about Will's queerness, at least, so it's not an accident. And queer-coding would be silly to expect from this show when it's already on its final season. Like, what is Netflix gonna do? Cancel it? Not to mention all the explicit queerness that's in there already. And no one's gonna "What about the children?" a show that's had sex scenes in it since the first season.

There's no fakeout here. It's gonna happen. Breathe.

#byler #Part 2 I fucking guess. #Wasn't planning on making a Part 2 but here we are. #I seriously just want you guys to feel safe. #I'm not naive. I do not say any of this shit lightly. #But I've been around the block long enough to know what queerbaiting looks like and this ain't it. Promise. #Will's already been confirmed as in love with Mike for fuck's sake. You don't think the other half of the equation's gonna follow through? #There has only ever been one other situation where I've gone 'Okay this is going in gay places' with no doubt whatsoever without being told #And that was with Daja in Tamora Pierce's 'Will of the Empress' when I read it at like sixteen or whatever #and she wound up having whole-ass fuckin' gay sex. #I was right then and I'm right now. I swear.

[bones4thecats]

Them With A Reformed Sinner! S/O

Type of Writing: Random Idea Name: Them With A Reformed Sinner! S/O Characters: Adam, Lute, and Emily Idea-Giver: Random Thoughts

A/N: This is mainly about how they meet and my take on how Season two may go, y'know with God being introduced and holding a meeting on what happened during Extermination Day. Anyways, have a great rest of your days/nights!

⚠️ Trigger Warnings: Mentions of Death and Non-Canon Events ⚠️ Spoilers for: S1 ⚠️

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Reformed Sinner! Reader ; 'Died' with Sir Pentious ~ Fox-Demon

🎸 Adam, despite what many in Heaven think, doesn't bother memorizing all of his descendants and what they do. He only sees them after they die during the Extermination

🎸 You were one of Sir Pentious' helpers when it came to making his creations, such as the Egg Boiz for example. And, when he had begun his charge up his ship to take on Adam head-first, you were one of the people inside of the ship, holding his hand as he said his so-called final words; Fire.

🎸 When you both awoke after falling onto a ground, you couldn't lie, you were horrified. After all, who just dies from being blasted by an angel and suddenly appears in a new land?

🎸 It took you a little more processing than your college, but, when you did finally come to terms that you were in Heaven, due to your actions in Hell against Adam, you were quite pleased

🎸 This action just allowed Heaven to realize their faults in judgement; Reformation was possible!

🎸 You and Pentious were taken to the main judgement room where Charlie and Vaggie were months prior and that was where you met your unknowing future spouse

🎸 Adam had just barely dodged the attack from Niffty and escaped back to Heaven with Lute on his tail as he swore revenge on the residents of the Hotel

🎸 He had then healed up and was required to go to the meeting where their Father, God, had set up to discuss the day's events and whatnot. And anyone could tell that he was both pissed and pleased

" And Adam. What in the name of Earth were you thinking?! I only allowed Extermination on the one condition that is happened when I decided it to be necessary, not for you to do it six months prior! Without my knowledge nonetheless! And, who are these two?! " " They're the first reformed sinners! My Father, meet Sir Pentious and Y/N L/N. "

🎸 Adam glared at you two, remembering how you stood beside Charlie as they declared war upon one another. And he remembered how determined you stared him in the eyes as he blasted you two nothing alongside your friend

🎸 Once God had calmed down and motioned for you, Pentious, and Adam to step forward and announced for everyone else to exit the room, the first man and grown more nervous than before

🎸 When the creator of life had placed you three at a table and told you guys to speak to one another without any malice or hatred, and, in turn, basically apologize, Adam straight-up asked why

" Because Adam. They are new members to our home, and that means we must treat them with the same amount of respect that we treat the natural Winners. Now, apologize. " " But- I- Ugh... fine... I'm sorry... " " Apology- " " Forgiven. And we apologize for attempting to kill you in return. We just- felt the need to protect our friends more than we had any value for each other's lives. "

🎸 He was shocked, you were apologizing for trying to kill him?! He had tried killing you! You must have been trying to deceive him, that is what foxes were known for; deceit.

🎸 Forcing a smile despite his confusion and wish to throw out colorfully decorated questions at you, Adam just pushed through the meeting second by second. But, he'd have to ask you questions later on. He just had too.

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Reformed Sinner! Reader ; 'Died' fighting along Alastor ~ Chickadee-Demon

🗡️ She did not want to be here in the slightest.

🗡️ Why was she needing to tell her side of the story?! You and your little friend, Alastor, had attacked Adam, nearly killing him in the process, much to everyone's shock

🗡️ Lute was not amused with how you kept a small smile when mentioning your fight against Adam and how you had stood your ground during, smiling with full teeth- ones matching the Radio Demon's, though yours were more white

🗡️ The Father of Humanity just looked at you and your snake friend before smiling gently and motioning you and him to come closer so he could look into your eyes

🗡️ He could tell when someone was lying by looking deep into their eyes, it was something about their soul being based off of a piece of him that made it work

🗡️ Lute watched with narrowed eyes and your wings come flying backwards with force as your eyes turned white with black spots littering, oh how she hoped you and Pentious were banished back to Hell

" They pass. Their seems to be no amount of sin left within them, well, there is a hint, but a hint I can forgive. " " WHAT?! "

🗡️ Smacking her hands to her mouth, Lute slammed her head into the stand's top, making a loud thump echo throughout the room signalling her shock if the word was not enough

🗡️ The exorcist looked at you and Pentious and gritted her teeth as he began to tear up with joy as God summoned his little Egg Boiz back into existence, though they took on a more heavenly-egg form than an demonic-egg one

🗡️ Looking at you especially as a small bird landed on your large piece of feather-like hairs that stood up from your head, her heart began to pound heavily as her mind screamed at herself for the interior action

🗡️ Why in the name of Heaven was her heart pounding at your smile and gentle nature with the Egg Boiz and your little bird friend?!

🗡️ Whatever the reason was, she didn't want to think about it anymore. After all, such an action could be perceived as unholy, resulting in her demise to Hell

🗡️ Holding her spear closer, Lute nodded as God dismissed everyone and Emily hugged you and pet your bird as she spoke to Sir Pentious, asking you guys some stuff about the Hotel and who you guys believed could be redeemed next

🗡️ Lute almost bumped into you, but she stopped herself, allowing one question to burn in her mind as she began to walk away to where a certain female demon was;

🗡️ Why did you seem so cute?

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Reformed Sinner! Reader ; 'Died' protecting Charlie from Adam ~ Hyena-Demon

💞 You were known to be very aggressive around those you deemed not worthy of your presence, and as one of the most dangerous demons in Hell when angry, even those in Heaven saw this come out

💞 This happened when Adam had tried to lay his hands on Charlie during the meeting, though you were far faster and more dangerous than Vaggie when it came to this time

💞 You had jumped the gun and kicked the first man away, shocking everyone. And when you barked for the two females to be sent back with you to your home, Sera just nodded and made a portal for you guys to leave, much to Adam's annoyance

💞 Emily had barely even met you, and it saddened her. But, seeing you defend Charlie from such a powerful heavenly figure made her heart skip a couple beats

💞 Wait- why was she thinking you looked amazing protecting the Princess of Hell?! Was this unholy?!

💞 She hadn't heard about or from you until Extermination Day, which was when Adam and his exorcists had descended to attack and kill as many sinners as they could

💞 And in Adam-ly fashion, they had went to attack the Hazbin Hotel first, much to everyone else's annoyance

💞 You had noticed that Adam was about to kill Charlie, so, you threw yourself in front of her, making his large attack hit you and in-turn kill you, and that action prompted the angry outburst of your closest friends, Alastor and Charlie

💞 Surprisingly though, you and Sir Pentious, who had also died protecting the Hotel and your friends, had appeared in Heaven before Sera and Emily

💞 Emily had looked at you both in awe, adoring your new look; your fur and tail was more well-kept and your ears were fluffier with the skin inside being shaped like tiny pink-tinted hearts to match your hand's markings

" Y/N! Oh my goodness, you got reformed! How awesome is this?! "

💞 The angel squealed and hugged you as you chuckled nervously, still adjusting to the bright surroundings. To be honest, you expected to close your eyes and never open them again

💞 Sir Pentious held onto you from behind as you led him throughout the building and during the meeting with your Creator and the rest of his heavenly council, and you had to admit, watching Emily gleefully talk about you and your friend was nice

💞 Maybe you could get used to your new afterlife here?

💞 Maybe Emily could hang out with you even more!

💞 Maybe this could be the start of a whole new relationship? Oh no she's going full on romantic, isn't she?

#Hazbin Hotel #Angels #Heaven #Hazbin Hotel x Reader #Angels x Reader #Heaven x Reader #S/O! Reader #GN! Reader #Demon! Reader #Angel! Reader #Sinner! Reader #Hazbin Adam #Hazbin Adam x Reader #Hazbin Lute #Hazbin Lute x Reader #Hazbin Emily #Hazbin Emily x Reader

[ladyluscinia]

What Exactly Did David Jenkins Say?

Look, I'm still staunchly of the opinion that Word of God statements and creator interviews are overvalued in fandom, especially when they get pulled out mostly as gotchas without then continuing to analyze whether or not the show canon is successful at getting across that same message. Death of the Author is good, actually, and we should remember that. But they are worth looking at in the context of evaluating intent vs execution, and for future speculation - just, like, please with less of the whole mile high pedestal idolizing and backlash cycles.

But if overvalued "Word of God" is annoying, then overvalued "supposed creator statements that have gone through three rounds of telephone and any given blogger has only heard about a quarter of them, which they'll use confidently anyway" is worse. So, since I'd already looked up interviews for various reasons...

Here is a fairly comprehensive list of interviews David Jenkins has given and statements he's made during them, presented without commentary (save curating which statements get highlighted). All provided with links. I definitely missed some, so if you have any that you want to add, please do - though if you could trim off any commentary and save it for tags / your own post with a link that would be cool.

Also, again, just because he said it doesn't make it incontrovertible canon that only a blind person wouldn't understand. Some of these even arguably contradict each other. The creator's intent doesn't always translate to what the show is doing, nor do you even have to think it was a good idea.

(Listed in chronological order from oldest to newest - post contains spoilers below the cut)

Pre-S1

Gizmodo - Feb 22, 2022 - with Cheryl Eddy (io9) - Link

Why this story - Really, it was the enigma of Stede that drew him in. "I think actual pirate stuff is fine, but it's not necessarily my cup of tea. And I think Taika [Waititi] felt similarly. But hearing about this guy and reading about him and seeing that, you know, he left his family, then he met Blackbeard, they hit it off, and we don't know any of the details in between. So filling those blanks in, and having a very human story, and then being able to do it with the pirate genre, that was like, 'Oh, this would be cool.'"

Post 1x01 - 1x03

Polygon - March 5, 2022 - with Tasha Robinson - Link

David Jenkins, Taika Waititi, and Rhys Darby interview

About Stede running off to sea - "Stede thought he could outrun his baggage, and you can't outrun your baggage."

About S1 - "I don't think there was enough improv on set! We had an insane schedule, with a huge amount of plot. We were budgeted and designed as a one-hour show, but with a half-hour production schedule, which means we really had to chase these episodes to get them shot. And then there are certain emotional beats that we really needed. So trying to find places to find the fun was hard."

Mashable - Mar 5, 2022 - with Belen Edwards - Link

About the show concept - "It was Jenkins' wife who first told him about Stede's adventures; she thought it would make a good TV show."

On casting Rhys Darby - "Stede did a terrible thing to his family. If you cast it wrong, he's a very hard character to get behind," Jenkins said. "Very quickly, the only person I thought of for this was Rhys [Darby]. He has this childlike quality that's endearing."

About the story - "Seeing them discover a need for each other that neither anticipated and charting how that relationship goes is the meat of the story." + "If you're on this ship, you're running from something, and you're running to something that you can't be on land"

Mentions of matelotage - "In fact, one of Jenkins's favorite pirate facts that he learned while working on Our Flag Means Death was the term matelotage, which was a civil union between same-sex pirates. "The more you look at it," he explained, "the more you write to the fact that this is a queer-positive world.""

Discussing piracy careers - "Something else that astounded Jenkins about pirates was "just how fast it all moved — their lives were quite short," he said. "Your career [in piracy] wasn't very long.""

Post 1x09 - 1x10

Decider - Mar 24, 2022 - with Kayla Cobb - Link

David Jenkins, Taika Waititi, and Rhys Darby interview

Pitch for the show - "That was in the pitch," series creator David Jenkins told Decider. "That was the reason, to make them fall in love with each other."

About the romance - "The main thing to me was to side-step coming out," Jenkins continued. "I just want a romance. I want a Titanic romance between these two people. We don't have to do the coming out story and then the non-binary story for Jim [Vico Ortiz]."

About S2 and the show - "The show is the relationship," Jenkins said. "So, we end in a place where there is this breakup. What happens after a breakup between these two people who, one’s realized he's in love and the other one is hurt in a way that he's never been hurt before? What does that do to each of them in an action, pirate world with them trying to find each other again? So again, I really love those rom-com beats."

Collider - Mar 24, 2022 - with Carly Lane - Link

On making it a romcom - "It's the only reason to make the show. If you didn't do that, it would just be weird. I mean, you're using the rom-com beats. You're using these like they're together. And it's funny because so we're so habituated to be like bromance, bromance, bromance, and it's such a simple move to put them together."

Discusses focusing on romance - "I guess I really... I get kind of bored. How much pirate can you do? They're going to rob stuff. They're going to steal ships. There's only so many pirate stories you can do. So if you're going to do a workplace story, I mean, you're essentially having this... You'd have this same amount of relationships in Grey's Anatomy in the ER. So it's standard. It's the most standard. We're making a soap opera on a pirate ship, and to use those soap opera beats... I like it, and I like the flavor in a comedy when you have something that's played genuinely up against very ridiculous things."

Discusses history and kissing scene

Discusses importance of going home to Mary - "Yeah, that was the problem for me in the story. I knew that I wanted to have the end where he goes home, because you need to give Mary her day in court. I just wanted to know from Mary's perspective what happened and then to see that, yeah, they're friends."

Is Lucius dead? - "You got to wait."

EW.com - Mar 25, 2022 - with Devan Coggan - Link

David Jenkins, Taika Waititi, and Rhys Darby interview

Pitch for the show - "To me, [Stede and Blackbeard's relationship] is the reason to make the show," Jenkins explains. "When Taika and I were first talking about it, he was like, 'Oh yeah, that's the show.' I first started reading about Stede and how he befriended Blackbeard and we don't know why. Very quickly, it was like, 'Oh, it's a romance.'"

Polygon - Mar 25, 2022 - with Tasha Robinson - Link

Discusses 3-season intent - "I think three seasons is good. I think we could do it in three."

Discusses acts within S1 - "To me, when you see him get stabbed, and the blood runs through his fingers, it’s like 'Oh, no, the clown got stabbed! And not comedy-stabbed, he got stabbed stabbed!' That to me is cool. And then having Blackbeard find him as the end of what would be the first act of our story felt good to me."

Discusses kiss scene filming and the national moment around gay rights

What to focus on a rewatch - "I think Con O'Neill does such a great job. He's such a complex character, and it's such a tortured relationship. And that's a love story too, between him and Blackbeard. It's a very dysfunctional story, but it's fun to watch. Watch that maybe, on a rewatch, looking where their relationship ultimately goes."

TV Insider - Mar 25, 2022 - with Meaghan Darwish - Link

Discusses show pitch - "When I was pitching [the show] to people, I'd be like, 'Okay, so it's about Stede and Blackbeard, and then they hit it off and then they fall in love.' And then people are like, 'Okay, cool,' Jenkins shares. "And then they really fall in love, and become intimately involved."

Discusses historical inspiration

Discusses S2 direction - "But when [Stede] goes to find [Blackbeard], he's gone and his crew's been abandoned. And so watching them try to negotiate that, that's a good rom-com beat," he adds.

The Verge - Apr 15, 2022 - with Charles Pulliam-Moore - Link

Discusses being surprised by queerbaiting legacy - "...part of me knew that, yes, Stede and Ed's romance was going to be real. But one part of me felt like, 'We're going to do this story, and they're going to kiss, and maybe that's not even going to be that big a deal. Maybe it'll just be a blip.'"

Discusses writing romance - "I'd never written a romance before this one, but I think with Ed and Stede, the question's always 'what's the need for each other?'"

Discusses falling in love and Stede's accidental seduction - "It made sense to have that love be almost like a teenage version of falling in love — one with all these intense and conflicting feelings. They're middle-aged, but Stede's young. Ed's young. Emotionally, they're like 16, and they've both got a lot to learn."

Discusses Con O'Neill as Izzy - "He plays an exhausted quality that's really lovely because this character could just be generically evil, and the way Con plays, it is like, he's credible. I believe that he can do some damage if he wanted to. My favorite thing I've seen about the show is somebody saying that Con's playing the only human with a bunch of Muppets. It does feel like that a bit where he's like Charles Grodin in The Great Muppet Caper."

On Izzy being in love with Blackbeard - "I think Izzy's deeply in love with Blackbeard, and it's a very dysfunctional kind of love, and he's like the jilted spouse who's losing his man to fucking Stede Bonnet, and he can't believe this is happening."

Discusses masculinity and piracy as an escape from that

Discusses diversity and trauma based stories - "And the consensus in that very diverse room was that we wanted to show that isn't just wallowing in trauma. We don't have to do a coming out scene or focusing on the trauma of it — not to say that those stories aren’t valid."

Gizmodo - Jun 20, 2022 - with Linda Codega (io9) - Link

Musing on fandom response to the show - "I'm wondering if the fact that because the queerness of this show isn't gaslighting the audience, and isn't a function of wanting to do something, but not being able to produce the results because of network standards. I think we just happened to be in this lucky spot where the show is actually queer… and I do think that people are responding to that."

Comparing fanfiction to writing - "And Con O'Neill's audition was one of those things I would go back to. I would watch that and be like… Oh, right, that's the show. And in a way, you're writing fanfiction for a certain actor and character because you want them to do something, and you're like–" at this point, it must be said, Jenkins let out a maniacal little giggle. He’s just as thrilled to show off Con O'Neill's ability to seem both deeply exhausted and menacing as the rest of the fandom. "And you [as the writer] you're like… And then Izzy does this now."

EW.com - Dec 13, 2022 - with Devan Coggan - Link

Discusses The Chain sequence - "I had initially wanted that end sequence to be like the FBI raid in a mob movie, where the feds come in, and they've got boxes of stuff, and everyone's running, and someone makes a dash for it," Jenkins explains. "So, it's like a mob movie or FBI raid story, and then it's also a story of Stede's lover coming back."

Pre-S2

Collider - Oct 2, 2023 - with Carly Lane - Link

Discusses fan reaction to S1 - "I thought that they'd kiss, and people would be like, 'Oh, cool, cool!' I kind of thought people would know a little bit more [about] where we were going, but then in hindsight, no, people have been hurt and burned on so many other shows and then made to feel silly."

Discusses starting S2 dark - "One of these characters is very, very damaged and has never made himself vulnerable in this way before, and I don't think [he] would react very well to having his heart broken in this way. I don't think it would be cute, and I don't think it would be funny. I think it would be scary as hell to watch a very damaged guy that we've established in Ed, who killed his dad and thinks he's not capable of being loved, deal with rejection and see that Stede really hurt him."

Discusses adding more female characters

Discusses S2 needle drops including "This Woman's Work"

Discusses 3-season arc

Post 2x01 - 2x03

Mashable - Oct 5, 2023 - with Belen Edwards - Link

Discusses fandom response to S1

About the canon gay relationship - "To watch the explosion of enthusiasm around [the kiss] was disorienting, almost," Jenkins said. "I thought people would react to it, but I didn't think the reaction would be that big. And then it was moving, because I didn't realize that this audience felt so unserved in general, as far as storylines go."

Insider - Oct 5, 2023 - with Ayomikun Adekaiyero - Link

Tease on leaning into the Stede / Ed / Izzy love triangle - "I think Izzy, in a certain way, got the worst deal in the first season," the showrunner tells Insider. "He gets jilted and then he still is in spurned spouse territory at the beginning of the second season."

Discusses Izzy's arc - "What is that relationship about? And I think by the end of the season it kind of becomes a little unexpected of who they are to each other and what they mean to each other," he teases

Discusses addition of Zheng - "He likens Zheng's way of pirating to a successful tech startup, compared with the garage sale vibe Stede had going on the Revenge."

Discusses introducing Hornigold - "I thought Hornigold was the most obvious because he was the person who made Blackbeard what he is. And Blackbeard has a father complex, so it's natural that he's going to bring his former captain back," the show creator said. "It's a struggle with him because he and dad figures don't historically do well."

Discusses importance of the mermaid scene

Inverse - Oct 5, 2023 - with Hoai-Tran Bui - Link

Reveals he didn't commit to the romance until shooting 1x06 - "Jenkins always intended his pirate comedy to end with a romance, but he'd envisioned it as an unrequited love. "It was going to be about Stede learning what love is, and Ed making himself vulnerable and getting burned," Jenkins says of his original pitch. But Darby and Waititi's choices in the scene, which they played without diffusing the tenderness with a joke, made him wonder if they could take the show in a new direction."

Discusses mermaid Stede idea from S1 - "We talked about Stede as a mermaid very early on in the writers' room," Jenkins says. "At some point, yeah, I want to see Rhys Darby as a merman." + "They wanted us to come up with a Season 2 pitch during Season 1. And that was one of the ideas we hit on, and I can't quite remember how we got there, but it was us asking, what is a pirate world? Are there mermaids? Is there magic in this show? With pirate stuff, I don’t know that I want there to be magic, but there was a way where it was something really beautiful about a mer-person, and I like the idea that their coming together would have a mythic size to it."

Discusses historical divergence

Discusses matelotage and pirates as weird outsiders

TV Guide - Oct 5, 2023 - with Allison Piccuro - Link

About the shipping culture - "It's the meat of the show, so it's great to have people bought into the central romance. If it were a bromance that we were trying to make look like a romance, that would suck."

Discusses playlists he makes

Discusses opening dream sequence - "I just like that it started with something badass. Stede, Blackbeard, and Izzy are on an arc together. Whether they're in stories together or not, their ultimate arc is together. I think, by the end of this season, the last episode, that first scene will be gratifying. I won't say why, but their fates are tied together."

Discusses Kraken arc - "But I think the thing that's good about this show is that it can go to really sweet comedy land, but I want there to be, like, if someone loses a body part, for instance, they lose a body part. To do justice to the fact that this guy is a killer and a monster, and dealing with heartache that he doesn't know how to deal with, I think you really need to go there."

Discusses Izzy in S2 - "I mean, he's jilted. He had a partnership with Blackbeard, and he knows he can't live up to this person that Blackbeard fell in love with... Who is that guy? What are his hobbies? What does it look like when he's not totally subsumed with his boss's love affair with somebody, and heartbroken?"

On S2 reunion - "The second season is them being a little bit more mature... It's the thing where you're in your 20s or 30s and you're like, "Well, should we move in together?" They have to make up some time because neither of them have been in a functional relationship before."

About genre of pirate stories - "...is a show about multiple relationships. That's what I want to see when I see this show. I don't want to see a bunch of pirate things that I've seen in other things, I'll just go watch another thing if I want to see that. That's not really my thing. I like the genre, but it's a very hard genre to budge. I want to see relationships in a pirate world."

Discusses the A Star is Born aspect of seeking fame / retiring

Mashable - Oct 7, 2023 - with Belen Edwards - Link

About the mermaid scene - "You need something expressive for when they come back together," Jenkins said. "Their reunion moment has to feel big and mythical. This is not a world where mermaids actually exist, but their love for each other has that size that you can get [a mermaid] in there somewhere."

About Kate Bush - "I love Kate Bush, and I love that song, and I know Taika loves that song," Jenkins explained of the choice. "So I wanted to find a place for that song somewhere in the second season."

Polygon - Oct 9, 2023 - with Tasha Robinson & more - Link

Compares S2 and "Golden Age of Piracy" stuff to Westerns, lists 5 he was thinking of - "Every Western that’s good is that story," Jenkins says. "'This way of life we made is coming to an end. It can't last. It's a blip in time. We created this thing because we need it to exist. We're outlaws, and we need a culture that suits us, but it's running out of time.'"

Gizmodo - Oct 9, 2023 - with Linda Codega (io9) - Link

Short tease on leaning into the love triangle

About Stede, Edward, and Izzy - "I think the three of them are on an arc together that's pretty inseparable," Jenkins said in an interview with io9. "And to watch Izzy try to process what's happened [in season one]… to watch him kind of grow and figure out what's his own story, if he can separate himself from this kind of toxic relationship, is interesting to me and I think gives him a lot of room for growth."

Post 2x04 - 2x05

IndieWire - Oct 12, 2023 - with Sarah Shachat - Link

Discusses directing and show creation

"The limitations of the show also naturally push it back towards moments with the ensemble and plot problems that it would frankly be irresponsible to tackle if you had a giant budget and a fully working ship-of-the-line to sail and then blow to bits. "That's the fun of the show to us, I think. If you open this up and you're like, unlimited budget, that would be terrible because I think you can get seduced," Jenkins said. "[It could be like,] 'Oh man, it's all leading up to a climatic battle on the sea.' And those things are great. But that’s not this show.""

"The nice thing about that, though, is you get to be the lo-fi show that’s like, 'Hey, we’re making The Muppets.'"

PopSugar - Oct 12, 2023 - with Victoria Edel - Link

About S2 Stede - "I like the idea that he learns and grows and he doesn't just stay a bumbling captain. He might be ridiculous, but he is getting better at it."

Discusses genre challenges - "How do you have a show that's a romance show but it's also a workplace show and they're criminals?"

Discusses Edward's redemption - "But Blackbeard still has to come back and apologize and be part of the community again, and give his little press conference. It was fun for us to look at that in the context of piracy, where they all do terrible things to each other. But even by their standards, what Blackbeard did was a bit much."

Discusses Izzy in S2 - "When Izzy shoots Blackbeard and they all mutiny on him, that's Izzy breaking up with Blackbeard. And they're both having their own journey in the wake of it, and Izzy's having his own redemption arc. He's trying to figure out, "Who am I if I'm not Blackbeard's first mate? Who am I outside of this relationship?"" + "If Stede's Spongebob, he's Squidward. I don't know what that makes Blackbeard. But there's a real pathos to Squidward."

Discusses trauma-based narratives - "As a diverse room in terms of sexuality, socio-economic background, and race, we thought, "Wouldn't it be nice to have a non-trauma-based story for these characters who don't get that historically?""

Variety - Oct 13, 2023 - with Hunter Ingram - Link

Discusses three act structure and making Stede work for a relationship - "The way I like to look at a season is in threes. The end of the first act is when they find each other, and this is the beginning of the second act. They've found each other, but they are pissed. Stede thought it was going to be [Kate Bush's] “This Woman's Work,” but, in reality, it is this headbutt –– literally."

Discusses the central romance - "It was always part of the pitch... that is the reason to make the show. The pirate genre is fun, but I wasn’t dying to make a pirate show. Taika wasn’t dying to make a pirate show. But the thing that was interesting to me was that Stede finds love, and he finds it with Blackbeard."

Discusses 2x04 plot - "This episode is based on a very, very thumbnail sketch of "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?." Anne and Mary are Martha and George, and they are Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton."

Discusses adding historical pirates

Discusses Buttons exit - "I just love the idea of him turning into a bird: I love the idea of Buttons somehow being the one character that is able to figure that out."

Discusses Izzy and the crew's trauma plot - "We liked the idea that there is something about trauma and getting past that trauma, even on a pirate ship. They have been through two very different ways of living and they have to get used to each other again. But it's also a family that was separated, and becoming one family again is painful."

Discusses bringing characters back - "We could bring Calico Jack back, who, if you remember, was hit by a cannonball last season. Anyone who is that fun to play with and wants to keep playing, you always find a way to bring them back."

Polygon - Oct 14, 2023 - with Tasha Robinson - Link

Discusses 3-season arc and how keeping them apart with some plot device was never in the cards - "at the end of the first season, they're 14-year-olds, emotionally. In this season, it's more like they’re in their late 20s."

Discussing New Zealand production and ensemble cast writing - "It's pretty organic, because as we're going through and tracking everybody's journey for the season, we're watching the thing that holds us together — what stage of Stede and Blackbeard's relationship are we in? Because the overarching arc is, are these guys going to learn how to settle into a relationship?"

"The second season is more overtly about romance, and more a relationship story."

Energizing aspect of fan reaction

S3 is about "love is work"

Gizmodo - Oct 16, 2023 - with Linda Codega (io9) - Link

About the story - "I want to see them become a functional couple or fail to become a functional couple," Jenkins said. "Those are the most interesting parts of the show."

Discusses fandom engagement - "...ultimately the writers are also "the fans in the room." He goes on to say that, "We're fans of the world. We're writing fanfic about our own characters, our own worlds… It's paid fanfic, but it's fanfic." He gives another example: "If you're writing a season of Succession, you're writing fanfic Succession. You're just getting paid to do it. We, as writers–" it's clear that he's not just talking about the writers in the writers room, "become fans of the world and we all have things we want to see these characters do. What we do is not that different."

Discusses the A Star is Born aspect of seeking fame / retiring

Discusses Zheng Yi Sao

Villains of the series - There are a lot of new villains this season, but, Jenkins says, ultimately, "the antagonist on this show is normalcy… These pirates have a way of life that they're not finding in normal life. They've found a way to live and support each other and be there for each other. And that's always threatened by these larger, tyrannical forces that want to shut them down."

Post 2x06 - 2x07

Mashable - Oct 19, 2023 - with Belen Edwards - Link

Discussing drag performance in 2x06

"It is nice to see with Izzy's arc, where he finally breaks through whatever he's been doing to himself. He lets himself have that moment, which I just love. It resonates for Izzy, and I think it resonates for Con. Just personally, it made me feel good to see how it turned out."

Consequence - Oct 19, 2023 - with Liz Shannon Miller - Link

Discusses intent for romance - "...telling a love story in a serialized medium like television has its perils, largely because it's tough to know how much you can draw out any unresolved tension. "I think we take it episode by episode and we try to not piss people off in taking too long and doing double beats and triple beats," Jenkins says. "You can only do Will They or Won’t They for so long. Then you have to deepen it.""

Discusses pirate setting - "The emphasis on relationships also fits into the show's high-seas setting, which Jenkins finds similar to post-apocalyptic narratives. "It is a little bit like you're doing Mad Max, except there's relationships," he says. "Stuff's shitty, so you gotta try to find some joy. Of course, people are going to have a need for each other in these extreme circumstances, and I like the idea of these characters finding some level of a healthy relationship in these extreme circumstances.""

Discusses Jim x Archie

Discusses 3-season arc

Polygon - Oct 21, 2023 - with Tasha Robinson - Link

Discussing gender and power dynamics in Jackie x Swede / Zheng x Oluwande / Blackbeard x Stede + A Star is Born aspect

Jim not being jealous of Oluwande - "I think that relationship was always seen in the room as a friend relationship that got romantic."

About adding a villain - "I think a lot of the internal forces in Our Flag are the villains." + "I think this is a story about the age of piracy coming to an end. This way of life is coming to an end. And every Western that's good is that story: This way of life we made is coming to an end, and it can't last. […] I think every story about outlaws is about trying to preserve a way of life against normative forces that are kind of fascistic."

Historical accuracy - "The balance of the show is 90% ignoring history, and then 10%, bring it in, whenever we're like, Ah, gotta move the story forward! Remember, the English are out there, and they're really bad!"

Post 2x08

AV Club - Oct 26, 2023 - with Saloni Gajjar - Link

Killing Izzy was always the plan - "We wanted to show the depth of that character. Izzy is one of my favorites. He's like middle management who is in a sort of love triangle [in season one]."

Discusses how they really wanted the happy ending for S2 - "I think with season one's end, it was a gamble to leave it the way it was. Everybody stomached through it. Now if it turned out they didn't want us to make more, I just didn't want to have another story where the same-sex love story ends in tragedy, unrequited love, or if one or both of them are being punished."

Discusses S2 progressing the 3-season romance - "They’re a couple who is like in their late twenties right now as opposed to being teens at the end of season one." + "It was an interesting tension of, which one gives up their dream? A lot of times in relationships questions can come up, like who is going to give up on their dream to take care of the kids? Obviously, no one wants to, but someone ends up giving up more than they want to at some point. What's wonderful about a mature romance, and what I'd want to see more of in season three, is Ed and Stede making these tough decisions." + progressing past the getting together point

Discusses parallels, Republic of Pirates, and Zheng Yi Sao

Short bit about fan response

Collider - Oct 26, 2023 - with Carly Lane - Link

Discusses Ed leaving fishing - "I like that he had a little prima donna moment where he thought he could go and be a simple man, and then it's revealed that he really isn't a simple man; he's a complicated, fussy, moody guy. No, he's not gonna be able to catch fish for a living. For him to be told that, "At your heart, you're a pirate. You have to go back and do it," he doesn't want that to be true, but it was true."

Discusses Izzy's speech to Ricky - "I wanted to give Izzy a proper eulogy for himself. He gives a eulogy for himself, but it felt true writing it."

Discusses Izzy's death scene - "In a way, it's very much for Ed, that speech. The "we were Blackbeard" is claiming that he is also Blackbeard, that Blackbeard is not just Ed’s creation, and I like that for him, too, because he's worked so hard for that — and then just to say, "You can give it up." There can never be a Blackbeard again as far as Izzy's concerned because he's dying, and they did that together."

Discusses Republic of Pirates / music parallels from premier to finale

Discusses finale wedding - "We knew we wanted a matelotage in the season, which is the real term they had for marrying crew members. And yeah, they've always been in relief to Stede and Ed, and they're a little bit ahead of Stede and Ed in how much they can talk about things. So to have a bunch of family things in the season, like a funeral and a wedding, and have the parents kind of watch the kids sail away, felt right, and all of those things seem to work well together and build on each other."

Discusses retirement ending - "That will-they-or-won't-they is interesting to a point, but the real meat of it is always like, "Can they make the relationship, and can they do better than Anne and Mary?""

"Frenchie's in charge of the Revenge" + teases Stede struggling to give it up

EW.com - Oct 26, 2023 - with Devan Coggan - Link

Discusses Izzy's death and telling Con - "It feels like the logical end of Izzy's arc. It's heartbreaking to me because he's my favorite." + "I told him in the middle of shooting because I didn't want him to find out at the table read, obviously. I also didn't want it to leak. He was lovely about it."

Discusses Izzy's final arc - "You know, I didn't expect him to become kind of a father figure to Ed. I think we hit on that while we were breaking the [final] episode. He's in such a weird position: He's like a jilted lover, and then he's a middle manager who has to work for a terrible boss. He gets thrown away, and then he comes back. He really develops, and he becomes a part of this family. I think the biggest surprise was the extent that he was a mentor to Ed. They were both Blackbeard. They both made Blackbeard happen."

Discusses the happy ending intent - "With this season starting so dark, I kind of wanted to reward them for the work that they've done and the character growth that they've had. I wanted to leave them in a place where they're really going to try and make this work. I don't think it's going to be easy for them, necessarily. They're both still immature."

Discusses the wedding - "We knew we wanted a matelotage in the second season, and pretty quickly we landed on Lucius and Black Pete. It seems like they were ready for that. We made up a ceremony and everything, where they call each other mateys, and it was just fun to make our own version of a pirate wedding ceremony."

Discusses potential S3 and Frenchie's Revenge - "But it felt like a good place to end the second season. It felt like a contrast to the first season. If it turns out we don't make any more, I'm comfortable with that being a resting place."

Variety - Oct 26, 2023 - with Hunter Ingram - Link

S3 endpoint - "I love things in threes," he says. "That first act, second act, third act structure is so satisfying when it is done well, and you don't overstay your welcome. I think this world of the show is a big world, and if the third season is successful, we could go on in a different way. But I think for the story of Stede and Ed, that is a three-season story."

Discusses the draw of a "Golden Age" and it's ending

Talks about father figure Izzy and wanting a real sense of loss - "There is a nice parallel to have Ed treat him so badly at the beginning of the season and then come all the way around to where Izzy is this sort of father figure he doesn’t want to lose — because Ed usually kills his father figures."

Gizmodo - Oct 26, 2023 - with Linda Codega (io9) - Link

Teasing future Izzy - "Jenkins looked slightly sad himself, saying that "Ghosts exist in this world." I told him not to make promises he couldn't keep."

"Jenkins said that he doesn't see Izzy as a pure antagonist in season one because on some level… Izzy was right in his hesitations about Stede."

Discussing Con O'Neill & Rhys Darby acting

Jenkins confirms the season was always 8 episodes due to budget cuts

About S2 finale vs S3 - "The first season ends on such a downer, so it made sense to end the second season in a kinder spot." + "I think there's plenty of story left for season three, but I think that it was important to end this as if it was the end of the show, and on upbeat note and avoid the kind of "kill your gays" trope. I don't want to see Stede and Ed punished for giving it a go. I want to see them really say, 'yeah, we’re going to we're going to try to have a relationship'."

Teases S3 revenge against Ricky and going to the Americas

Vanity Fair - Oct 26, 2023 - with Sarah Catherall - Link

About the ending - "It's bittersweet. There's death and there's the rebirth of Stede and Blackbeard's relationship; there's a funeral, there's a wedding, and the idea that this family is going to keep fighting even as they lose members. And then it's about belonging to something." + "A lot of times, with this narrative of characters, same-sex relationships end on a dour, downbeat note, where one of them dies and it's unrequited or it's unrealized; something horrible happens and they're punished in a way. So it was important to leave it open and a lot more show to go, but also leave it in a place where it's happy."

Discusses Izzy as a mentor / father figure - "We felt like Izzy's story had reached its conclusion, where we put him through enough. And then there was the realization that he is kind of a mentor to Blackbeard and that he is kind of a father figure to Blackbeard." + "And it's also a pirate show, so he's got to die."

Discusses filming challenges - "It's a big show; it's basically a one-hour show that we're doing on a half-hour budget."

Discusses adding Zheng Yi Sao

Is the show a queer romance? - "For this show, it's important to me just to write a really bold-bodied romantic show that happens to be between two characters of the same sex. I think that the story beats don't matter, because if you've been in love and you've been hurt and you met someone you love—hopefully we all know what those feelings are."

Blackbeard's arc in S2 - "...the second season is about Blackbeard's midlife crisis. And then when they both have their midlife crises, they can open a B&B together." + "I don't think Stede and Blackbeard are ready to be married. They're emotionally saying: 'Let's give this a go.'"

Discusses historical piracy as "counterculture" that's been straightwashed and whitewashed

Did he feel responsibility to the fan community? - "As opposed to responsibility, it feels more like relief—that people feel seen and they feel good about it and they liked what we did. And so it feels like, Okay, somebody's out there and wants the show. The makeup of the writers room looks a lot like the makeup of the fan base. So as long as we're true to our stories in the writers room, I think we just feel excited that there's somebody waiting on the other end to enjoy it."

Paste Magazine - Oct 26, 2023 - with Tara Bennett - Link

Discusses whether fandom expectations felt weighty - "I think particularly for this season, that "bury your gays" thing… I didn't want to end on a downbeat for Ed and Stede. We did that in the first season. I like that there's a lot of different flavors. It's even a little melancholy because the Republic of Pirates got blown up. But there's still more good things."

Discusses production and plotting - "I wanted to start at the Republic of Pirates this season and end at the Republic of Pirates. And I knew I wanted the Republic of Pirates to be destroyed, ultimately. Within that, we are making a one-hour show on a half hour budget, on a half hour schedule."

Discusses planning the ending - "In terms of ending this season, it all felt right just in talking through it when we were in the room. It felt pretty intuitive. When you get to the third act of the story, things kind of settle in. There's gonna be a funeral. We always knew we wanted a wedding at the end of the second season. And I knew that I wanted Stede and Ed to start an inn together. So once you have those beats, it's kind of locked in."

Discusses Izzy's arc - "It's kind of a strange arc in that I knew we were going to put him through all these things, and I knew he would ultimately die. But I think him becoming a father figure to Ed in the last episode didn't really dawn on us until we were breaking the last episode. Asking what would this man say to Ed at the end because they've been together through everything? He went from a troubled and downtrodden employee to a jilted lover to a discarded employee, to someone that is just trying to find his footing again—no pun intended—to actually becoming this guy's parental figure on some level. And he's one person who kind of raised Ed right, because Blackbeard usually kills his parental figures. So, it felt right and it felt like that's how the mentor dies. The mentor in a story usually dies in the second act and then our hero has to go on and try to do it without them. It felt like the right journey for Izzy and a gratifying one for Con."

On leaving open for S3 - "I don't think it was a very hard thing to do. I think it was more that I felt a responsibility to leave Ed and Stede in a good place, at least for now. It's not gonna go well. They're not going to run a business well. Ed's too much of a talker. Stede can't focus. It's gonna be challenging."

Vulture - Oct 28, 2023 - with Sophie Brookover - Link

Discussing Izzy as a "father figure" and his S2 send-off being a priority

Meaning of piracy - "...what our pirates stand for is a life of belonging to something larger than they are in the face of a crushing, slightly fascist normalcy."

Re: Con O'Neill & Izzy's death - "I had to tell him about halfway through the season"

Third season about the work of a relationship between still damaged main characters

Discusses middles as about change and transitions, and wanting characters to change instead of reset, have them experience permanent consequences

About the final scene - "...Ed and Stede as the parents kind of watching the kids take the ship. Frenchie's the captain now..."

Objective of the crew - "...have had terrible things happen to them at the hands of colonial forces, so they want some payback. Party, plunder, and payback — the three P's."

Metro Weekly - Nov 1, 2023 - with Randy Shulman - Link

Discusses historical premise of S1 and easing into the romance

Discusses S2 genre - "In the second season, it was great because we know it's a romance and we can lead with that. It's a workplace show essentially. I wanted it to be more in the vein of early episodes of Grey's Anatomy or something where there are all these relationships on those shows. That's what you’re following — relationships and friendships that are taking place in a hospital, procedural. That's Grey's Anatomy. This is less procedural for the pirate stuff — and you need the pirate stuff."

Discusses not being into pirates - "But I'm like you. I'm not a big pirate person. In general, it's a big creaky genre that's hard to budge" + "Pirates of the Caribbean, those movies are great. That's not necessarily what I hunger to see, but in that genre, it's great. You're not going to beat that, especially on something that's lower budget. We've seen a lot of this stuff, so it's fun to take it then and don't do any of that stuff."

Discusses adapting historical piracy - "You don't want to see them punch down. You don't want to see them do terrible things to people who don't deserve it, which is not what they really did. So, in the show's world, I think piracy is like a stand-in for something. I think it's a stand-in for being an iconoclast and an outsider and queer in some ways and just different." + "Yeah, I mean, the British are there to be Stormtroopers, or Nazis in an Indiana Jones movie. I mean, they're in there to die essentially."

Discusses diversity staffing

Discusses performative masculinity

Discusses Izzy's death, happy endings, and openness to S3

#trust me i appreciate the irony of making an extensive word of god reference when i want people to stop blindly promoting word of god #(and also when i'm currently very irritated with the creators) #and fyi showrunners talk A LOT but i was already committed so this was more work than i was expecting #i'll even use a small bit of my extra hour of destiel day to post this (most of it was assembled while watching supernatural) #our flag means death #ofmd #ofmd meta #david jenkins #word of god #ladyluscinia

[burst-of-iridescent]

I'm writing this as a big Katara stan. I just found out that a new film about an adult Gaang is planned to be released, and Katara, like Aang, will be given a leading role there. I am so excited and glad that finally Katara will be given due respect as a character!

But for some reason, after searching on Tumblr, I saw joy about a new film in the entire Atla fandom except for our zutara community. on the contrary, there is a lot of discontent and bitterness. But why is that? Is it because zutara won't be in the movie? Well, yes, zutara is a fanon ship, it will never be anywhere but our fanfics and fanart. But after all, Zutara is not in the original ATLA show, and we still love it! This is no reason not to rejoice at the opportunity to see our favorite characters on the screen again, to see Katara again (God, I'm screaming with delight😍😍😍😍). Yes, there is a chance that the writing will be bad, but there is always such a chance before the release of any film. I'm just so happy to see Katara again, and the whole gaang too, and her new design for this movie seems so great to mе!

i mean this genuinely, anon: i love that you love katara so much, and i am really happy for you that you're looking forward to the new movie. i truly hope you enjoy it.

i don't want to speak for the rest of zutara fandom, but i can't share your feelings because - to put it point-blank - i don't trust the creators with katara's character. ever since they lost their writing team, nothing they've created post-atla has proven to me that they understand katara's character, or how to create a good arc for her. it's telling that the only post-canon comic featuring a decent story for katara (katara and the pirate's silver) came out in 2020, twelve years after the original show ended (and which was also, notably, the first comic that bryan and mike were not involved with).

i'm sure some people are salty that they won't see canon zutara, but personally i'm relieved that i won't have to see bry.ke ruin romantic zutara like they did with their friendship post-atla. i'm sure they'll do their damnedest to fuck up what remains of zuko and katara's platonic relationship in the new movie, which is why canon ended for me with the final agni kai. no magic pointy rock or canon ships in this household, thank you.

i wish i could share your excitement for the movie anon, but i just don't have faith in bryan and mike to do justice to the characters (especially zuko and katara) after everything they've said and created over the last decade. like really, calling zuko a bad boy in the year of our lord 2023? please watch your own show.

besides, nothing they can do for katara in this movie will retcon what they did to her in LOK. i already know she ends up as a sad, lonely housewife without any real power, impact or legacy; that can't be changed, no matter how they try to "fix" it. it looks like the movie has been delayed so my hope is that it just gets cancelled in production. atla has been milked to filth anyway; leave the og characters alone and do something new with the universe, or just let it rest in peace and find another story to tell.

#anti bryke #anti kataang #anti atla movie #zutara

[your-name-is-jim]

What a Kirk/Spock shipper sees in a Kirk/Female-Love-Interest story [PART 2/2]

Part 1 <- Please read Part 1 first. Part 2 won't make sense otherwise!

This panel is absolutely AMAZING and you all deserved to see it :D

So, what were we talking about? Oh, yeah, Laura just proposed.

As you can see, Jim is panicking not sure what to answer, so the first thing he does is calling his two best friends. There are so many things going on here; I'll try to mention everything I care about!

"Starfleet is getting a lot better at partners of equal rank working together."

This is an important part of this comic: apparently, in this story Starfleet isn't encouraging relationships between officers with a different rank. I know it's sort of implied in canon too, but it's not always clear if it's actually against regulations or if it's fine when the ranks are close.

As a K/S shipper, this detail just gives me an in-universe reason why Jim and Spock aren't considering dating each other in this story: a commander can't probably have a relationship with a captain. I mean, we already know from canon TOS that Jim avoids relationships with the members of his crew, so this just adds a layer to a potential forbidden love story between them. Yeah, I know this isn't what this comic is trying to do, but what can I say? Fans don't stop shipping something just because they learn it's not allowed in-universe… if anything, they can find it more exciting! :D

"We could teach at the Academy. Mind you, she laughed at that idea."

Oh, wait. Jim actually talked to Laura about their possible future together! It looks like he's thinking about them as teachers at Starfleet Academy. Hmm… this sounds familiar:

2277 — Accepts appointment to Academy faculty, moves into San Francisco apartment

This is from Kirk's biography in Star Trek official website. Between The Motion Picture and The Wrath of Khan, Jim accepts a job at the Academy. We see it at the start of the second movie, after Saavik takes the Kobayashi Maru test.

Wait, who's the other teacher here? :D

Okay, okay, in that era Jim is an admiral and Spock is a captain, so their ranks are still different, but except for that… They both teach at the Academy. And it's literally what Jim proposed to his love interest Laura in the comic! With my Kirk/Spock goggles on, what I read in that panel is "If Laura and I got married, we could both do this thing that I'm totally going to do with Spock in the future." LOL

Did the comic creators notice the parallel? Probably not. However, we K/S shippers have special skills for finding accidental implications about our ship everywhere, so here it is :)

"Your thoughts, please, Mr. Spock."

I said I had a lot to say about that single panel, so of course I can't skip the last line! A human woman has just proposed to Jim, and what does Jim do? He asks for Spock's opinion. This says a lot about Jim and Spock's friendship, and it's very sweet on Jim's part, but it also makes me think about Jim's love life. What about Jim and Laura's romantic feelings for each other? Does Jim want to spend the rest of his life with her? Perhaps the reason they don't talk about it (not even with Bones!) is that it's implied that Jim loves her and she loves him, even if they never say it. However, I still think it's interesting that Jim's discussion on the matter is mostly "logical".

Anyway, I swear I won't post every single panel of this comic, but Spock's reply is an absolute gem you all must see:

"I AM SOMETHING OF AN EXPERT ON THE SUBJECT OF JAMES T. KIRK."

(dkjflsdjlkdjglk brb losing my mind again)

Ahem. Okay, Spock. Noted. Also, wow, nice make up. Did I say that the art in this comic is great? Good.

"I believe someone of equal status would offer you the best possible chance of happiness."

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I find interesting his use of "equal status" instead of the more specific "equal rank". Status makes me think less of their official position in Starfleet, and more of how two people actually see each other. It's not just about Laura and Jim being both captains; it's about them seeing each other as equals.

Anyway, Jim jokes about Bones and Spock finally agreeing about something, and the conversation continues.

Jim's best friends are both encouraging him to marry Laura. In this panel, I zoomed in on Bones because his words are especially interesting. Based on everything we've seen so far, it looks like having a romantic partner when you're in Starfleet is a pain in the ass in general in this comic; however, Bones is pointing out that for the first time, Jim has someone who really understands. Of course, that's because she's a Starfleet captain too.

About Spock, I won't share the entire conversation, but I just want to say that as a K/S shipper who likes to think Spock is secretly in love with Jim in this era, I find his dialogue where he's supporting Jim's relationship with Laura totally reasonable. It's important to remember that this comic takes place close to the end of the five-year mission. We know that Spock is going to run away after that, trying to erase all his emotions in Gol. So, in this specific part of his story, I find pretty in character that he'd tell Jim to find happiness with someone else. That's what he'd do, regardless of his own feelings.

So, Jim knows his two best friends think he should say "yes" to Laura. What happens next?

During a mission, Jim meets his ex Carol Marcus. She is surprised to find out that Jim is considering settling down. This is not completely related to this analysis, so I won't post it, but I found interesting that Carol knows about every single woman Jim dated before he became captain (the only one she doesn't name is Ruth), and she even says "And that woman in 1930, what was her name?" Just… how the hell does she know? LMAO

At least Jim hasn't told her about Miramanee and Rayna (well, technically he doesn't even remember the latter), but seriously, Carol does know a lot about Jim's private life, even if it's clear she doesn't want her or their son to be part of it. (Not really related to this plot, but in case you're confused about the timeline: David is a child in this era; however, he doesn't appear in this story.)

Anyway, this is what she eventually tells him:

So, I like to think that Carol is genuinely trying to help Jim here, because the spiteful ex girlfriend is another thing I don't really want to see in 2020. I want to think that the creators meant well; however, what happens in the story is that, despite Jim not seeing himself outside the captain's chair, and despite his best friends telling him to marry the captain that is just like him… Jim keeps thinking about Carol's words.

He knows from Starfleet that he's going to be promoted to admiral the moment he reaches Earth. What is interesting here is that Jim could refuse the promotion and be a captain with Laura. This is definitely a different situation from everything else I've seen before. It's obvious to anyone who has watched TOS movies that Jim is not happy as an admiral. He didn't really want to be one. He doesn't want to be one in this comic series either (you can see it explored in Star Trek: Year Five main story). However, thanks to The Motion Picture, we also know that he will accept promotion at the end of his five-year mission. This isn't a canon divergence story: the writers can't really change any major event, so they have to work with what canon offers.

What I find interesting is that in this 2020 comic, Jim finds himself in the opposite situation he is in Gene Roddenberry's The Motion Picture novelization from 1979. In Roddenberry's novel, it's mentioned briefly that Jim starts a relationship on Earth with a vice-admiral, a woman that was basically asked to use her charm to keep Jim grounded. Jim could refuse promotion, but he finds himself lost, without his ship, without Spock, and eventually without Bones. So he tries to convince himself that a life as an admiral with a perfect woman by his side will be good for him (it will not; Jim himself will realize a year later that his lover was an "Enterprise-surrogate").

Now, I understand trying to write something fresher and more modern in this Valentine's Day special, but I confess that I find a little hard to believe that Jim would accept a promotion as admiral if the alternative was keeping both a starship AND a wife. Also, let's not forget that Spock and Bones are both telling him to choose the married captain life. So, while I totally get from a writer's point of view that if you can't change canon, you have to work with what you have, I'm also not sure that Carol reminding Jim that he's always wanted to challenge himself is enough to make him doubt everything.

I guess I can sort of see that as part of a bigger problem: Jim knows he can't be a captain for life; during his first date with Laura, as we saw in Part 1 of my analysis, he talks about it.

"I've been thinking lately about whether I could ever stop being a Starfleet captain. Whether I could ever want to. A friend of mine talks about 'infinite diversity'. That applies to the Federation, too. But here I am, only built for one thing."

So, Jim knows he has probably avoided the subject for too long. Carol is forcing him to think about it. And, more implicitly, we could say Spock and his IDIC philosophy are also making him think, even if it's not what Spock would have expected. After all, Spock told Jim to marry Laura (in the comic), and he'll tell him that being a starship captain is his "first, best destiny" (in The Wrath of Khan).

Anyway, Jim eventually decides to meet Laura and talk to her about his personal concerns. First of all, we find out that the two of them haven't called each other for six weeks. Laura is still waiting for Jim's answer, and she didn't want to call him. If you ask me, their lack of communication is yet another a big clue that perhaps getting married is not a great idea.

Well, now Jim is at least trying to talk to her.

Aaand that's how she breaks up with him.

I'm not sure how to feel about this. I mean, in a sense, Jim doesn't say "I decided to be an admiral instead of marrying you", but Laura definitely sees it that way. I think he was genuinely looking for help, but that just proves that Laura isn't the right person for him. Why marrying someone you can't communicate with? They are such a great team as captains, but it looks like that doesn't apply to their relationship. I pointed out other clues in the previous parts, and now we got this. It's interesting to see that Jim in this comic can have a normal conversation about his future with Spock, Bones, and even Carol Marcus, but not with the person he's supposed to build a future with. Unless something changes between them, it can't work out.

Anyway, this isn't the end.

A year later, when Jim is an admiral on Earth, there's a sudden emergency. A miniature black hole appears out of the deep structure of the universe (don't blame me for the science, I'm literally quoting the comic LOL) and it's attracted to Earth gravity. Short story: they're all going to die, but fortunately the Drake (Laura's ship) can cause an anti-matter implosion that will shunt the black hole outside their reality. Unfortunately, that also means the Drake will have to go inside the black hole. Laura evacuates her crew and asks Admiral Kirk to give her the order to proceed. Reluctantly, Jim tells her that he knows she'll do it, and he gives the order.

Now, please appreciate The Motion Picture aesthetic:

Okay, I know I could have chosen a panel with Jim and Laura, since this is literally their love story, but I did say this analysis was going to be biased, so here is Laura with her two closest friends instead; they would never let her risk her life alone! <3 They are very obviously meant to be a parallel to what Spock and Bones are to Jim, which is very cute to see. Now, Laura, listen to me: I know the three of you have different ranks, but you may die in a few seconds… And I just think that the few times your friends appear in this comic, you have a lot of chemistry with them, sooo maybe you should forget about Jim and just smooch one of them, or both… just saying :)

Ahem. Anyway, after Laura and her girlfriends disappear into the void, there's another timeskip. This time it's 15 years.

Oh, damn.

I said in the premise of this analysis that one of the reasons I decided to read this comic despite shipping Kirk/Spock is that, in my headcanon, Kirk and Spock get together after The Motion Picture. Until this point, this comic hasn't really gone against my headcanon. I can genuinely believe that Jim had another girlfriend during his five-year mission; it's not a big deal. Unfortunately for me, this comic has its last part taking place around The Final Frontier era. Dammit.

Well, it's just one comic. I read until this point; it'd be illogical not to read until the end, right? Nah, it's not logic. It's human curiosity. I know I won't like it, but I still want to see it.

Also, if there's something that I really don't want to see in modern media anymore, is female characters dying just to make male characters suffer. I can accept that in TOS show because it was made in the 1960s, but even TOS movies got better about it! Characters like Saavik and Gillian can have their own lives without having to die for a man's pain. It's not a coincidence that the writers had to kill Spock to make Jim suffer. Without digressing too much, I just wanted to say that K/S bias aside, I went into this comic hoping to read something different from another dead woman for Jim. I'm very glad that, at least about this, the comic creators didn't disappoint me!

So, in this story, it's been 15 years since Laura's disappearance (actually, it should be more, but I'll try not to nitpick, despite being the trekkies' favorite hobby :D). Anyway, the one with the whales The Voyage Home happened, and Jim is not an admiral anymore. He's happy to have a starship again, but he hasn't stopped questioning his life decisions.

We can also see that, 15 years later, he's reading the book Laura liked.

HOLD IT! WAIT WAIT WAIT! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??? WHAT THE--

*inhales deeply*

(Friendly reminder to myself that what is obvious to me may not be obvious to everyone else, so I need to explain. Fine. I'll try.)

The screenshots I posted are from The Wrath of Khan, right after Spock's funeral. What Jim is doing there is reading the end of the book that Spock gave him for his birthday. He's mourning Spock.

In the comic panel, Jim has a new pair of glasses, because it takes place a little later in the timeline. But, except for that…

It's the same scene.

The same fucking scene.

I mean, come on! I can't even post the "they're the same picture" meme, because it's not funny if they're literally the same picture! Even the bookmark is the same!

The comic creators literally took a canon scene about Jim reading Spock's book after Spock is gone, and they redrew it with Jim reading Laura's book after Laura is gone. In a Valentine's Day special. Where Laura is Jim's love interest. They made a romantic scene with Jim and a woman that was originally about Jim and Spock.

(Brb, I'm going to chew a pillow until I calm down.)

So. Well. If you wondered why I thought there was something about Kirk/Spock in this comic… you have your answer. Perhaps the artist didn't think anything about it. I certainly do.

And I guess someone could say, "But Jim is still reading Laura's book 15 years later! That's true love!" Why yes, he's not reading Spock's book 15 years later, because he didn't stay without Spock for 15 years; he risked everything and lost all the most important things in his life to save Spock's soul.

Anyway, back to the comic. Starfleet receives a signal from the edge of Federation space. It's the Drake. Laura and her friends are alive.

Jim and Laura have a reunion after a long separation. Since they're both captains now, Jim thinks they are given a second chance.

Oh, whoops.

It's her turn now. It looks like being away for 15 years has changed her (as you can expect, honestly), and she's now glad to become an admiral. In this comic, that means Jim can't marry her. So, this is how the story ends:

So. Um.

This isn't a bad ending, but I also wouldn't exactly call it a happy ending. It's certainly not a happily ever after story. I'd call it open, maybe hopeful? Honestly, pretty much what I'd expect from a love story between an original character and Jim, so I can't say the writing is disappointing about that.

On the other hand, I can't personally imagine middle-aged Jim being so eager to start a romance again with someone he hasn't seen in 15 years who broke up with him 16 years ago. Perhaps he felt guilty about Laura's disappearance because if he had married her, they would have been part of a colonization fleet somewhere else and the incident wouldn't have happened the same way? Maybe. Personally, I would have found more believable an ending where Jim asks her to have dinner together or go for a walk, and then something romantic happening as they get to know each other again. But I can see why the creators wanted to bring up the marriage proposal again, just to close the circle. The comic is just 32 pages, so they did what they could.

"Unless there's someone else." "Not so much. I've been really busy."

Busy with what? Oh, right: Spock's death, Spock's body on Genesis, Spock's rebirth on Vulcan, the time travel (okay, that one wasn't 100% Spock-related), Spock's brother… Honestly, just say there's been a lot of Spock in your life, Jim, because that's the truth :)

On a more serious note, I guess that dialogue could mean that Jim has someone, but "he's been too busy" to do anything serious with them. However, as a K/S monoshipper I don't really like the idea of Jim being in an open relationship with Spock, so Jim's character in the entire scene in the end is just a big NOPE for me. Sorry.

That said, I found very interesting that in a few panels they show very clearly the "captain" rank on Jim and Laura's shoulders, to point out that it's the same. They can't be together forever, but they can have fun for a few days as captains. Because of that, I went back to the start of the last timeskip, just to check out something:

Fascinating.

This is a pretty detailed panel, where you can see the ranks on the shoulders of Jim's friends; the colors of their pins are also pretty good, close to the ones in the movies… except for Spock's.

Oh, please. Did you really expect me not to pay attention to this? :)

Captain Kirk and Captain Spock.

And unlike Laura, this is what they are until the end! The end of a very long life! Generations? What's Generations? Spock will eventually become an ambassador, but that's just a different job. How did Spock himself put it earlier in this comic?

"I am something of an expert on the subject of James T. Kirk. And I believe someone of equal status would offer you the best possible chance of happiness."

Did the comic creators just play themselves? I don't know, I'm quoting their own story here! LOL

And what about Jim's words from the same scene? :D

"Starfleet is getting a lot better at partners of equal rank working together."

Partners. Of equal rank. Working together.

That's literally what Kirk and Spock are since the end of The Voyage Home! Without an expiration date!

The comic creators made a big deal in their universe about relationships being better between two captains, and how good Jim and Laura may have been for each other if they had married as captains; and now they can't have their happily ever after because Laura is going to be an admiral… But even if the comic tries to hide it, we know there is a captain in Jim's life. And to make things better, Jim lost his admiral rank to bring him back. Listen, I'm a huge Old Married Kirk/Spock fan, so there's no way anything can make me forget that in the last TOS movies they're both captains. And there's no way I can forget that Jim risked his entire career (and everything else!) for Spock, and that's literally why he's not an admiral anymore.

This is almost ironic in this Valentine's Day comic. If it hadn't been for Spock, Jim would have still been an admiral, and he could have married Laura. Whoops. Too bad.

Speaking of admirals, I didn't notice it at first, but there's also something about this line Laura says in the last panel I posted…

"And don't you dare 'Admiral' me."

Ah, yes, a typical thing you tell someone you're planning to have sex with. Right, Laura? Agreed :)

Honestly, at this point I should just stop checking this comic, because I wonder if I'd just end up finding a Kirk/Spock version of every Kirk/Laura Rhone line LOL

By the way, I have other thoughts to share now that the story is over, but there's one more thing first. Do you remember the last panels of the comic? Middle-aged Jim and Laura kiss; END.

Okay. After that, the comic has a picture of the cover, with Jim and Laura kissing when they're younger.

And then it has this:

dklsfjlskjflskjlksjlkdlkgjdlfgsnfjekniuwanf LISTEN, HOW--

Just how am I even supposed to say anything that makes sense about this…??? I'm just… I can't…

Okay. So. We're talking about a Valentine's Day comic. It makes sense for it to include a cute Valentine card. I also get that Spock's iconic line has become so mainstream that it can be quoted out of context. And you can make parodies.

But… But… A Star Trek TOS fan can't really forget the original context of "I have been and always shall be your friend"? Someone could just not think about it, I guess… But, well, I know that at least I can't forget that this is literally Spock's line to Jim rewritten in a romantic Valentine's Day version. I can't possibly NOT think about it!

And I know it's very possible that the people who worked on the comic story weren't even aware of this extra, but the fact that I'm seeing this after reading about Jim Kirk's romance without happily ever after… Jim kisses a woman he can't stay with forever, and then there's Spock's "I have been and always shall be your Valentine". It's just so fucking funny. I can't. If I was feeling a little down after seeing middle-aged Jim wanting to marry Laura, now I'm laughing again. Thanks, Spock's silly Valentine card. I needed it! :D

Anyway, what did I say about this comic taking things originally created for Kirk and Spock's relationship and making them romantic when they're not about them? I can believe that sometimes it's a coincidence, but this card? Please… In a sense, this is the perfect ending.

---

Conclusions.

I started this comic with a question: in 2020, how do you write a story about TOS Kirk falling in love? I wanted to see this attempt. Overall, I think the creators did what they could. Laura is different from every other woman in Jim's life; they didn't kill her off, and they also didn't force a happy ending. I think they did a good job with the canon limitations they had, especially in 32 pages.

Do I believe that Laura could have been a good match for Jim in different circumstances?

As a temporary girlfriend? Yes.

As a lifelong partner? No.

Of course, I'm aware my answer is biased, but I can try to be a little more "logical" about it.

First of all, I think that the comic itself supports my interpretation: of course, like in every story, different people are going to see different things; however, as I already pointed out, Jim and Laura never say that they love each other, and before the marriage proposal their relationship is pretty casual.

In The Original Series, Jim isn't lucky when it comes to romance because the women he falls in love with can't really understand his nature as a space explorer. Sometimes they can, like in Carol's case, and that's why they break up with him. Laura is the opposite, because she's just like Jim. But here is the thing: I think Laura is too much like him.

What would have happened if Jim had accepted to marry her at the end of the five-year mission? They would have been both captains. On different ships, though. Sure, they could have been part of the same colonization fleet, as Jim says in the comic, and maybe it would have worked for a while. However, would they really have seen each other as much as Jim needs?

I don't know about Laura, but we see multiple times in canon that behind his mask as a starship captain, Jim is definitely more lonely than what someone may think.

First of all, don't get me wrong: in these screenshots from The Naked Time, Jim is single, so of course his attraction to Janice Rand is related to that. It's not the same situation he'd be in if he were married to Laura. Early in the series, he has thoughts about his yeoman exactly because he doesn't have anyone else. Contrary to his fame as a womanizer, TOS Jim in canon always has one woman at a time in his mind, never more.

So, why am I sharing those lines? To show that when Jim is always inside the Enterprise, he does feel lonely. He needs a romantic partner's physical touch. However, we also know that Jim does not want a relationship with one of his subordinates, so Janice Rand and the rest of his crew are off limits.

Laura is good for him because she's part of Starfleet, and not a subordinate. But is that really enough? From what I've seen in the comic, no. At the end of the day, it looks to me that Jim and Laura don't really know how to plan a future together. Perhaps it's because they're so similar, but they don't really think of themselves as a couple, especially Laura. There's Captain James T. Kirk and Captain Laura Rhone; they both love their ships, so they should get married? That's not how it works.

Their relationship is casual. Jim doesn't want to define it. Are they friends with benefits? Are they in an open relationship? Either way, when Laura decides to marry him, she asks around if Jim has someone else, and only after that she asks him. Jim, on the other hand, doesn't talk to her for six weeks after her proposal. He talks to Spock and Bones immediately, but not to her. He even talks to Carol first.

Then, when Jim finally tries to talk to her about his problems, she doesn't listen. Their lack of communication is the cause of their break up.

16 years later, what we see is even worse. It's obvious that Laura has just different priorities. Maybe it's because of what happened to her lost in space, but I'm not sure. If they had married at the end of the five-year mission, would have Laura always refused a promotion to admiral? Would she have tried to get a promotion with Jim? Based on what we see in this comic, it doesn't look likely to me.

Now, as I said, different people are going to see different things, so I'm sure that someone really invested in this romance can imagine that Jim and Laura are really meant to be, and they can get their happy ending after their retirement, or in other ways. However, I admit that Jim and Laura's huge communication issues make hard to me to picture a long happy relationship between them. They should both try to get better, but in those 32 pages there was no hint towards that direction.

There's another thing that makes really hard to find any love interest for Jim as a plausible "happily ever after" option: the stakes. I know that it's just a single comic, so the creators had to focus on a few things; however, I couldn't help but notice that Jim and Laura never really save each other from dangerous situations. They work together as a team, and Jim watches Laura disappearing into the void, but does he do anything about it? Does he try to reach her inside her ship before she disappears into the black hole? Does he try to bring her back from the void? No, he doesn't.

In TOS show and movies, Jim Kirk risks so much for his crew and his ship that a Star Trek fan can't believe that a new woman is the love of his life, unless Jim is willing to do for her everything he does for his friends. And honestly, after The Search for Spock… how can he even come close to do that?

And it's not just about Jim's actions. There's his language too. At the start of the third movie, Jim refers to Spock as "the noblest part of myself". What could he say about a love interest that is as deep as this?

Let's be honest here: the reason it's so hard to write a story about Jim Kirk's true love is that the real love story for him has already been written. You may not see it romantically, but Kirk and Spock's story is absolutely a love story. And when a character has someone he loves so deeply, it's not easy to convince the audience that he could have someone new to love as deeply. In Jim's case, the combination of his personality and his canon life makes it almost impossible.

Anyway, before I end up not so accidentally turning this analysis into a complete Kirk/Spock ship manifesto, I'm just going to mention one silly thing about the Valentine's Day comic. Please, don't take it too seriously, I'm half-joking :)

So, there are two kiss scenes in the story: one when Jim and Laura start to spend a lot of free time together, and one in the last panel. Well, I can't believe Jim isn't holding Laura's shoulders when he kisses her! That's just the basis of the way Jim kisses women! D:

Different Star Trek characters kiss in different ways; it fits their personalities. And because the rest of my TOS posts are probably too gay for these gifs, I'm dropping them as references here:

Sorry, but if Jim Kirk doesn't grab someone's shoulders before a kiss, it just kills my immersion! :P

Okay, a little more seriously: Jim doesn't always kiss women the same way; however, his "shoulder grab" is common enough that you definitely notice it if you pay attention. Because of that, I think it would have been nice to include it in the Valentine's Day comic.

After reading this comic, what kind of person would I consider perfect for Jim?

Well, my answer is obvious. However, I'll try to elaborate.

First of all, this story definitely convinced me even more that Jim can only be really happy with another Starfleet officer (or at least someone who's been deeply involved with Starfleet). He also needs someone who understands him as a space explorer, without trying to keep him grounded. And someone very smart, of course. These are all traits Laura has. But they're just the basis.

I don't think Jim needs someone in command of their own ship as a lifelong partner. As I said before, I can't really imagine it working out. Another starship captain would have their own goals and their own ambitions; that doesn't mean Jim shouldn't marry someone with specific plans for their own career, but I think these plans should keep the two of them close, not on different ships. Jim needs his partner physically at his side; if he could be happy in a long-distance relationship, I believe we would have seen at least one working out in canon. But it's never the case. Working on different starships from the same fleet would be a little better, but in my opinion not enough, unless it's for a short period of time.

And there's also the matter of his partner's personality. Jim is a natural leader; that's why he's so good at his job. I don't think he needs a similar kind of leader as romantic partner. This is just my personal opinion, but I believe they would just fight about everything they disagree about. I think he needs someone calmer in his life, not someone who'd encourage emotional outbursts.

More importantly, he absolutely needs someone he can communicate with. If he can't talk to his partner about everything important, they're not the right person for him. That doesn't mean they can't have disagreements or miscommunication issues, of course, but they shouldn't happen all the time, and Jim and his partner should be able to talk about them and make up.

In conclusion: someone at his side on his ship, smart, calm, trustworthy :)

Now, I know what some of you are thinking about: what about the "no relationships with subordinates" personal rule Jim has? How can Jim be in a relationship with Spock (or anyone else on the Enterprise) if he's everyone's superior officer? Well, first of all, I already said that after The Voyage Home, Jim and Spock are both captains. And before that… I think that Spock in the comic phrased it the right way. Jim can find his happiness with someone of "equal status". I think it's pretty clear, in my opinion, that Janice Rand and Spock aren't the same kind of subordinates to Jim. Just think about it: which members of the Enterprise call their captain "Jim"? Bones, Spock and (occasionally) Scotty. These are the three people I believe are "equals" in private to Jim, no matter their ranks when they're on duty. Because of that, a relationship between Jim and Spock could work pretty well.

By the way, another thing the Valentine's Day comic made me think about is that in TOS movies, Jim sort of does with Spock pretty much everything he does with Laura in this story. Not the same way, of course, but does it matter? Spock is his own person, he's not Jim's copy. That doesn't mean he can't indulge Jim, have fun himself… and try to stop Jim from doing dangerous things "for fun", as an old spouse would :)

Okay, perhaps throwing each other into the water doesn't count as dancing, but it's so much better :D

In conclusion, this is the way I can read the Valentine's Day comic as a Kirk/Spock shipper:

Jim mentions Spock on his first date with a woman.

Jim questions his life choices as he thinks about Spock and IDIC philosophy.

Jim does with Laura everything we see him doing in TOS show, except for playing chess (just the thing he does with Spock).

Jim says Laura and him are a good team in Starfleet because they had a lot of sex (is that true about other people he works well with??)

There haven't been many ladies or gentlemen in Jim's life because he's busy (not because he's not into men, apparently).

"Starfleet is getting a lot better at partners of equal rank working together." Good for your future with Spock, Jim!

If Jim and Laura got married, they could both teach at Starfleet Academy, something Jim is totally going to do with Spock someday.

Mister "I am something of an expert on the subject of James T. Kirk" Spock.

Also, Mister "I believe someone of equal status would offer you the best possible chance of happiness" Spock, which is actual foreshadowing of his own future status with Jim.

Hey, look at Jim reading a book that reminds him of his lost love! I wonder where I've seen LITERALLY THE SAME PICTURE???

"Don't 'Admiral' me". This is totally not similar to what Jim tells Spock in The Voyage Home, of course.

Hey, we're both captains now! Just for a few days, but isn't that great? I wonder if anyone else is a captain now, and forever? :D

"I have been and always shall be your Valentine". Totally not a Kirk/Spock line, I don't know what you're talking about! :)

Okay, okay, that's all.

As a Kirk/Spock shipper, I won't deny that I'm a little jealous of this Valentine's Day special comic, because I wish we could get something with amazing art like this where Jim is in love with Spock. On the other hand, Star Trek: Year Five comic series has a few scenes about Jim & Spock's friendship that I really liked. Platonic, sure, but good enough for my K/S goggles!

Thank you so much for reading this post until the end! I hope you enjoyed my analysis! Live long and prosper!

#star trek analysis #star trek: year five #star trek: year five valentine's day special #star trek comics #james t. kirk #laura rhone #spirk #star trek tos #star trek the original series #k/s #kirk x spock #space husbands #my gifs

[razer-kun]

'Nother idiotic social media post I wanna give my thoughts on. This time, it was on TikTok. So this person was criticizing some nswf audio that someone else made of Alastor from Hazbin Hotel, specifically that Alastor is canonically asexual (which the creator of the audio is aware of) and so he shouldn't be used in those kinds of audios. The caption on the crticizer's video literally says:

"Pro tip! When a character is canonically asexual, don't use them as NSFW audios! Hope this helps!"

Now my thoughts. . .

1. The person understands he's asexual and even acknowledged knowing he is, and just wanted to make an nsfw audio for fun. He's fictional, so let it go.

2. If it's perfectly okay for canonically straight characters to be in gay nswf audios or gay characters to be in straight audios (thought that's less frequent), then an asexual character being in gay/straight audios is fine too.

3. The person isn't even saying that they headcanon him as straight/gay. They just did a simple audio for people to enjoy. And even if they did headcanon him as straight or gay, people headcanon straight characters as gay all the time. Why is headcanoning a character as their non-canon sexuality suddenly a problem now? If you wanna play it that way, go to the bsd, mha, and every other anime fandom and start knocking skk shippers, bkdk shippers, and every other fanon ship/headcanon. Just keepin the same energy.

If you've seen the post, you may also have notice that the creator limited comments. . . Hhhhaaaaaahhhhh!!! Why am I not surprised? 😆

Edit: So I did some considering, and. . .

Lots of people responding are assuming I'm okay-ing the invalidation of ace people by means of straight headcanoning. . . I don't think I said the person headcanoned Alastor as straight. I haven't listened to the audio, so idk if he was straight or gay in the audio.

Also, you're fighting with feelings. "An ace fictional character being hearcanoned as gay or straight makes me feel invalidated. Um. . . who's to say a straight person who sees straight characters headcanoned as gay or a gay person seeing gay characters headcanoned as straight wouldn't feel the same way.

Dgmw, as a gay, I don't pretend to know how ace people feel, and I understand there isn't a lot of ace representation in media. And don't take this as me advocating for ace people being invalidated or discriminated against, b/c I respect nice ace, gay, bi, etc people as much as the next nice person. But you can't fight with feelings because anyone can feel anyway, and just because you felt attacked or hurt by that post, that doesn't mean that person was intentionally trying to be offensive. Just because there, unfortunately, isn't a lot of ace representation, doesn't mean that only you can feel hurt by character headcanons. Now, me personally, I'm not exactly hurt by gay characters being headcanoned as straight, though that doesn't mean I won't comment on what a dumb headcanon it is, but that's me.

Also, I apologize if people feel offended by the post, but the truth is people get horny and make lots of nsfw fanarts, fanfics, and audios. It's the internet. People say, do, and post heinous shit every day. Every search engine and not-for-children website should come with a "possible offense" warning.

#tiktok #hazbin hotel #alastor #hazbin alastor #anime #bungo stray dogs #my hero academia #attack on titan #gay #straight #asexual #ships #dumb ships

[queerplatonicshipshowdown]

Quarterfinals, Match 1

Balloon and Suitcase (Suitloon) from Inanimate Insanity vs. John Doe and Arthur Lester (Jarthur) from Malevolent!

Propaganda for Suitloon:

I think of them as queerplatonic, because theyre incredibly close and are pretty much each other's support systems. Balloon is Aromantic (technically canon? one of the creators said he was so im rlly hoping it is canon) so this is NOT a romantic ship. They dont have any romantic interactions, but you can spin every scene how you want. I just think they're in a QPR and are heavily supportive and understanding to each other. (Since like. half the people in the show fucking hate Balloon, and not many people seem to like to let Suitcase speak for herself)

Propaganda for Jarthur:

The inherent intimacy of having a guy (John) inside your (Arthur) head who you don't know the history or goals of but still bond over the atrocities you go through in your shared body. And sometimes he's an arsehole but you know that he wants the best for you and it's so much more than any other relationship they could have and in the end they always have eachother and I'm jealous of a sad British man and the voice in his head. They're friends and each others world and everything and I want what they have. OH DID I MENTION THAT ARTHUR IS FUCKINF BLIND AND JOHN IS HIS ONLY ACCESS TO SIGHT? IT'S BEAUTIFUL. Like John always takes such care to describe their surroundings (no seriously he starts waxing poetic). I mean yh he withholds it sometimes but every door has its issues. Anyways yh I love them and they deserve the world.

They are extremely close, both literally and figuratively. John is inside of Arthur's head, and they often fight in ways that have been referred to by the fans as 'divorce moments' but they still very clearly care about and love each other, in a way that is explicitely non-romantic. Their love is desperate and aching and they're not just friends, but they are definitely not dating, and a LOT of the fandom interprets them as queerplatonic.

Oh, the special kind of affection and friendship that can only bloom between a 1930s private detective and the eldritch entity that ends up possessing his eyes and left arm. 95% of this show is Arthur (the detective) bickering with John (the eldritch entity) like an old married couple, and falling in and out of trust with each other. Despite that they are both fiercely loyal to the other and by the point the podcast is at now they seem to trust each other implicitly - Arthur has to rely on John to guide him since John can see out of the eyes of their body and Arthur can't, but when they fall into an abandoned mine and are reunited (long story) they immediately fall back into that old, trusting rhythm. They share a body and their initial goal in the podcast is to be separated, but by the point we're at now they're not too fussed about it. They're making plans to go out to dinner and the movies. Also, Arthur is aro-coded - there's a big emotional arc that involves him accepting the fact that he never had romantic feelings for his wife, even during the birth of their child or her death, and how that doesn't make him a bad person or diminish the love he felt for that child.

They have fought gods together. Also they're positive plural representation. What is there not to love????

#tournament #tournament poll #tournament polls #poll #polls #tumblr poll #tumblr polls #tumblr tournament #qpr #queerplatonic ship showdown #queerplatonic ship #queerplatonic #quarterfinals #suitcase #inanimate insanity suitcase #balloon #inanimate insanity balloon #suitloon #inanimate insanity #john doe #malevolent john #arthur lester #jarthur #malevolent #rusty quill

[longing-for-rain]

I know you said no bait asks, and I promise this isn't, I'm genuinely curious to hear an opinion from a Zutara shipper who seems pretty rational. (I am not a kataang fan either by the way so I'm not trying to argue that or anything.). Do you believe that Zutara is a feminist relationship in comparison to Kataang? And what are your reasons for being so strongly invested in Zutara?

Hi, thanks for the ask. I’ll do my best to explain my feelings on this, but to summarize, I think there are two questions here that aren’t inherently related: a) is Zutara feminist and b) why do I like it so much. I know this might surprise you, but even though Zutara is my OTP, I don’t consider it inherently feminist. Let me explain though because that doesn’t mean it’s a bad ship at all.

Obviously, I really like the characters together. However, I won’t go ahead and say it’s the “feminist” choice over kataang, because personally I think that discussing whether a female character has a feminist narrative should not center around which man she ends up with. The primary focus should be on her narrative independently. And if she doesn’t have an independent narrative, well…that’s not feminist at all.

But I’ll answer in more detail below because I think this is an interesting distinction.

a) Is Zutara feminist over Kataang?

Like I said above…no, not inherently. I think what this question is getting at is which relationship gives Katara as a character a feminist narrative, which is a tricky question. Only one of these ships is canon, so we only know how one relationship would have played out in the eyes of the creators. Everything else is up to the interpretation of fans.

First things first, I absolutely do not think kataang, as portrayed in canon, adds to Katara’s independent narrative as a character, and certainly doesn’t contribute to any potential feminist narrative of her character. There are many instances of Katara being damseled and/or generally reduced in complexity whenever she’s placed in a “romantic” situation involving Aang. Despite Katara also being a main character, the “crush” is portrayed entirely through Aang’s POV. And post canon, Katara ends up being relegated to the role of a healer who stays home at the South Pole (this is why I could never get invested in LoK). Which, if you paid attention to her character at all, was something she explicitly stated she didn’t want to be and fought to escape. Ending her story that way reversed any “feminist” narrative set up in ATLA. So no, this is not a narrative that centers Katara and her ambitions at all.

Now onto fanon content.

The beauty of fanon is that it’s completely up to interpretation. Fans can give the characters whichever narratives they want. This goes for both Zutara and kataang. Just because your ship is canon doesn’t mean you have to adhere to canon; many canon shippers write “fix it” type content or otherwise make changes to the canon relationship to make it more appealing to them. I’m sure there are kataang shippers who rewrite their canon relationship to give Katara a feminist narrative, but to be honest the ship just doesn’t appeal to me at all so I haven’t seen those, but I’m not saying they don’t exist.

Now, Zutara. Even though there are definitely some hints in the series, there was nothing explicitly romantic between these characters in canon. So, fans are free to interpret how a relationship between Zuko and Katara would play out, and therefore Katara’s narrative within that relationship. Some people do make a strong effort to give Katara a feminist story, and in my experience, this is often a direct response to canon. But on the other side of the coin, some people absolutely…do not. It’s a big ship with lots of content. Some of it gives Katara’s character a feminist narrative, some of it…does the exact opposite of that. I think anyone familiar with the ship is probably well aware of some of the unsavory tropes associated with it so I won’t get into that.

But anyways, for any ship, there is a variety of content featuring Katara. Sometimes she’s a great warrior, sometimes she plays an important political role, and sometimes she’s just treated like a slave. Sometimes she has her own wants and ambitions and sometimes her story revolves entirely around whichever male character the author is thirsty for. Sometimes she’s treated as a complex human being and sometimes she just exists to be a fetish. Which again, goes for literally any ship and character you can think of.

So when asking yourself if Katara is given a feminist narrative, asking which man she’s paired with is asking the wrong question. Instead the focus should be on Katara herself and what the message of the story says about her.

b) Why do you like Zutara?

Although you can probably tell from the above, I do consider myself a feminist and enjoy analyzing media from that perspective. But honestly, that has little to do with why I like this relationship so much.

Sorry if this answer is boring, but I just…like them. Everyone has different tastes. For me, I was immediately drawn to them watching the show as a kid, because I’m a sucker for that sort of hurt/comfort dynamic they had going on in books 2-3. Growing up and taking a closer look, I also found that I see Zuko and Katara as having a lot of similar values and personality traits that I feel would make them compatible in a relationship. Also, there’s the fact that I just really like Katara and Zuko as individual characters so I like the fact that Zutara allows me to explore both characters by themselves, as well as how they interact together.

But if I’m being real, the final Agni Kai scene is what sold me. The emotional intensity of that scene just had me hooked for life. It’s really not much deeper than that, but yes, I’m extremely obsessed and emotionally invested in this ship.

And yes, I do write a lot of Zutara fic and do my best to give Katara independent goals and ambitions and agency as a character. I do my best to write her in a way that portrays a feminist narrative because I personally find that important. But that’s something I could apply to any ship. I don’t think it’s inherently feminist to ship Zutara, because like I said earlier, it completely depends on the individual fans and how they interpret it. I like interpreting it in a way that gives Katara individual power and goals, but that’s just me. Not everyone writes Zutara the same way.

Hope that answers your question ❄️

#katara #zutara #fandom salt #ish #pro zutara #kataang critical #well more like canon critical #ask #anon #analysis #atla #feminism

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

Hello ! I'm fairly new to the fandom: a friend of mine advised me to watch the original series before watching the live action (I'm not American and I had never heard about ATLA before that).

So I wasn't there when the fandom seemed to be torn by the ship wars, like two decades ago. I keep seeing Zutara's fans claiming that their ship was the original endgame except that there's no evidence in the show (at least with my "virgin Atla eyes") and all I can see are interviews of the creators/showrunners saying that Kataang was the endgame all along.

I guess my question is this : is there an actual interview of them entertaining the idea of Zutara at the time (even just to shipbait) ? Because I've been in several fandoms where creators/writers would do that just to keep the audience interested (*cough* Riverdale - yeah you can judge me...).

You say that Nickelodeon promoted the ship wars. In what form ?

That was a long ask. Thanks for reading me!

Okay, so here's what you need to know to fully understand that mess: back when the show was first airing, lots of zutara fans had fully convinced themselves that either the story was going to be changed to make their ship canon (because "it's more popular than Kataang") or that Zutara was TOTALLY planned to be the endgame from day one and that's why some many people liked in the first place (because "there's no way this is all in our heads" - spoiler, it was).

And this wasn't a case of fans simply disagreeing on theories about how the show was going to end - lots of people were being AWFUL to each other on fandom spaces, and the behavior was not exclusive to zutara or even just the other non-canon ships. Everyone was calling anyone who disagreed with their takes stupid and bragging ahead of time of how THEIR ship was going to be canon instead. And because the internet was not at all as inescapable as it is today and information was much harder to verify, some people were making "100% legit claims" that their parents or uncle or cousin or whoever worked on Nickelodeon and had fully confirmed Zutara would indeed be a thing.

Nickelodeon, being the shameless corporation that it is, realized that ship wars could mean A LOT of money because people would keep watching if they thought there was any chance of their ship becoming endgame. So, whenever there was an episode in which Zuko and Katara would interact, they made sure to not only include it in the promo for the episode, they'd describe it as "sharing a special moment" or "growing closer" even when that was not what was going to happen in the episode itself. They didn't do that just with Avatar either, and would spend years pulling simmilar things with the hit shows ICarly and Victorious, both of which had ship wars too. In hindsight (and even back then if we simply compare the promos to the episodes) it's obvious that Nick's promos should not have been taken seriously, but Zutara fans latched onto them as "proof" anyway (and some Nick exec laughed all the way to the bank).

But then the finale happened, Kataang and Maiko were endgame, and Zuko and Katara were never even stated to be interested in each other like that. The ship just wasn't a factor in the story - much like Kataang and Maiko fans had said it wouldn't be, because it was obvious what the writers were actually going for.

So, instead of admiting they let their enjoyment of a fanon ship get a little out of hand and that, even though they had every right to like it, it simply never had any chance of being canon and they shouldn't have insisted otherwise when the truth was so clear, they went for a different approach: just double-down on the lie that they had inside knowledge about the show's writting and production, and make up a whole conspiracy about how the lead writer and "true creator" Aaron Ehasz and everybody else had been building up to Zutara from day one, but then Bryan and Michael or "Bryke", the evil showrunners, meddled at the last second and forced them to change everything.

They also claimed there were things like a "deleted" scene in the finale, with Iroh saying Katara would be perfect for Zuko, or with a kiss between the characters, or Katara telling Aang she loved someone else, ya know, all kinds of copes. Nickelodeon made it worse by airing some "fun production facts" during re-runs, plenty of which were obviously fake - but one mentioned "Zuko was going to be Katara's original love interest" so plenty of people were willing to pretend it was all 100% legitimate. And the icing on the cake was an "interview" in which Ehasz supposedly confirmed all of the conspiracies, "proving" zutara fans had always been right about everything and it's the Kataang and Maiko fans that were lying to themselves.

Unfortunatelly for these people, pretty much EVERYONE has a social media presence nowadays, and it's really easy to not only get in contact with writers and producers of the shows we like, but to also PROVE that what you're telling everyone is indeed what that person said.

And there's tons of videos and screenshots of everyone involved in writting and producing the show saying, including the ones that like Zutara, saying KATAANG was the planned endgame from the start, and Aaron Ehasz has repeatedly said that the supposed "interview" in which he validates the zutara endgame conspiracy and "calls out" Bryke is completely fake, and he's happy MAI got to live happily ever after with Zuko.

Finally, we got access to "the series bible", aka the original plans for the show, and we got to see everything that was cut or changed: Uncle Iroh was originally going to be a twist villain that would betray Zuko, Azula was still going to be a prodigy and Ozai's favorite child but she'd be Zuko's older brother instead of his younger sister, and there was a cut love triangle between Aang, Katara... and TOPH, who was going to be a super buff dude, much like we see in Ember Island Players and in the opening sequence of every episode because yes, they had already designed that character AND started book 1 when decided "Wouldn't a blind girl that looks delicate but can wreck people's shit be more interesting than this generic guy?"

But even now that disproving this Zutara endgame conspiracy is easier than ever because we can just ask the people who made the show, some people continue insisting that all these writers and producers, again some of which DO like Zutara, are lying for no reason - or because "Bryke is forcing them to hide it all."

They're just desperately trying to save face and pretend that they didn't spend over a decade lying to themselves and their buddies, and sometimes using this conspiracy to justify bullying, threatening and doxxing people.

It's VERY sad.

#anti zutara

[egg-emperor]

Everyone's always thinking that like absolutely all Eggman's creations should be related to him because of Sage but she's still the only one in game canon where he's actually referred to himself as her parent/seen her as his child. That was kinda the whole point of the story of Frontiers and the development. Ya know. That it wasn't something that has happened before in game canon. I thought people who claimed to be big Frontiers fans before I came to like it too would realize that lol

Metal Sonic still hasn't been referred to or interacted with by Eggman as if he's his son in the actual games. He's never called himself his father in game. He hasn't even been nice to him for a single moment actually. In Japanese Colors, Eggman also outright rejected being called father by Cubot, so he clearly only accepted them as being like "brothers* to Sage to entertain her while he was making the proposal to her promotion to being integrated into the Eggnet, making it all the more appealing and not because he wants them as his sons

The absolute closest thing before that, of him assigning any type of familial dynamic to any characters in game canon at all is with the E Series, saying that they're like brothers to each other. But he was anything but fatherly towards them and you know, the way he was so terrible to them is the major plot point and kicker of Gamma's whole story and ignoring that would diminish the importance of that story. So I wouldn't say that counts at all but you know- it's the clooosest if you're gonna reach

Anyway all this to say I don't subscribe to the idea that all of Eggman's creations are literally all like his children just because he's their creator. I actually ship many of his robots with him and think they can be shipped together without people saying it's weird too. It's like how you could say Shadow is like part of the Robotnik family with how Gerald calls him his son and how he's been said to have something of a sibling bond with Maria- yet Eggman very obviously doesn't see him as family just because he was created by his grandfather lol

Not all of them have the same dynamic. I don't know why the family type roles always have to be forced in places they don't exist. I mean do what you want in fanon ofc but people are acting like it's canon fact or a strict set of rules to follow and it's really not because it's never been enforced in canon at all. As of now, it still stands that the only creation of Eggman's that are like family to him is Sage and I still don't even feel it counts with Orbot and Cubot, it's just Sage that sees them as her brothers

It's like how Orbot and Cubot were calling Metal big bro in Rise of the Wisps but Metal doesn't see them as family back and Eggman doesn't see the three as his sons either lol. In the events of Colors, he was actively and vocally rejecting the idea of Cubot being like family to him and he doesn't call himself Metal Sonic's father in game canon. So just because some of the robots may see each other as like family, I don't see it as that literal and they're still capable of having completely different dynamics with each other that aren't familial at all

I also think that really restricts creativity and freedom for how to explore their interactions and dynamics for absolutely no reason, when it's enforced that they're all literally family and see each other as such and it's all wholesome and happy and if anyone steers from it, it will be met with negative responses. Because it's not canon at all and people should be allowed to interpret and portray them and their dynamics in other ways, or in a less wholesome way if it can work but that complicated or toxic way suits best.

I dunno again just some random thoughts and rambling

#dr eggman #eggman #dr robotnik #dr. eggman #orbot and cubot #sage the ai #metal sonic #my post

[artheresy]

I have like very very specific feelings about Blade and Dan Heng’s dynamic/complicated situation and of course by extension the situation that occurred between Dan Feng and Yingxing and it’s like super particular, not in the way I think I’m objectively correct or fully indulging in fanon but a secret third thing. And the worst part is that I quite literally cannot for the life of me verbalize/write down my feelings and viewpoint to the full extent

They are just so complicated and full of so many tropes I love and it oof, it hurts very deeply. I like just reread the Passerby of Wandering Cloud relic set and I’m hmmm

I will say something as best as I can, I will never stop thinking about “Pairs of objects are destined for an eventual reunion.” In general that whole relic set wrecks me emotionally on a scale that I haven’t had since I read Stormbringer from BSD. They have such a complicated dynamic and I enjoy it so deeply, and see the thing is that they have such contradictory feelings that I don’t know the direction Hoyo will take it in but I am strapped in for the ride either way.

Also theres something like this fixation certain people have on separating the two and fixating on how they’re on their own paths AWAY from each other and I just,, I can’t understand that fixation because first off, even without talking about past selves, just talking about the current selves, the connection between them is extremely important when it comes to characterizing either of them. That is a significant part of their characters and where they currently are and a refusal to acknowledge that even without any shipper goggles confuses me. Additionally, as I brought up before, “Pairs of objects are destined for an eventual reunion” even as Blade and Dan Heng rather than Yingxing and Dan Feng, their paths are destined to cross. Given the earliness of the Xianzhou arc, heavily doubt this is any kind of “eventual reunion” as said by the relic seeing as its not like this is the first time they’ve met and those weren’t the this spoken of reunion. And additionally, I can’t help but think about Dan Heng specifically whether with knowing intent or not, carries multiple tokens of his past from the bracer itself to the jade pendant to literally Cloud Piercer. The weapon that makes him feel safe and yet he also has unfinished business with the creator

Speaking of that line, I’ve seen some people who think that he knows Blade made it. I personally heavily think he doesn’t know, given word choice to how he feels about it etc. But hmm I wonder if we’ll see what happens there. And that voiceline is just yet another thing hammering home how these two are destined to continue to have their paths intertwined.

And I’m trying to find the post again but I saw someone talking I think about the translations of the relic lore for that set and referring to the whole Pairs of objects line and they talked I think about how that statement is not meant to merely represent the actual objects but more so to represent Dan Heng and Blade themselves which may have been obvious from the start, but after reading that I felt like someone had expanded my mind and I can’t stop thinking about it, I can’t

Anyways anyways, I don’t think these two are by any means solely characterized by each other and they shouldn’t solely be seen as only existing in proximity to the other, but I don’t get people who for some reason hate the idea of them being connected in any manner bc of hating ships that they outright disregard and deny like key important parts of their canon. I mean people will do what they do and there’s no reason trying to put logic behind every single thing or whatever, but maybe that’s also just because I feel insane about their lore and again have this specific idea and view of them in my head. Maybe I’ll be able to put it into words better one day

Everything I ranted about arent even the full extent of my feelings about this particular topic regarding them. I just feel so specifically that I don’t know how to put it in words. If only sounds alone could convey my thoughts

Theres so much more I could rant about, so much more I could say but its like 4 am and I cant properly formulate thoughts without tangents starting in the middle of them

#they make me sick #i hate them #and yknow what #its the stuff i went over in this post why I will never be solely liking fengxing/xingyue #the connection between current blade and dan heng is just as interesting and heartbreaking to me as that gay shit yingxing and dan feng had #anyways imma try to sleep #im so tired #blade honkai #hsr blade #honkai star rail #hsr #dan heng #renheng #hengren

[suchawrathfullamb]

Help me understand the situation if u don't mind , u said the fall was not romantic right I'm saying the same , he knew he couldn't go back because he was literally forced again in a situation where he couldn't have anyone other than Hannibal, I am queer myself so I don't know what heteronormativity u talking about. I saw the gallery scene after Ur post but weren't they talking about just killing each other , I always read an analysis from early 2015s that support my claim . All I see is Will forced in situations where he has no one left other than Hannibal. I am really trying to see that " dark romance " but all I see is one man's desperate attempt to stay sane . I mean Will married Molly , and was happy with her , bored maybe but happy(not my words I read a meta about it ) he didn't even visit Hannibal for 3 years u know, and after the dragon attack to his family his first instinct was to kill Hannibal , so I am struggling to see any reciprocation from his side.

Heteronormativity has nothing to do with being queer or not. If you don't know what that is, research it, I'm not obligated to educate you. But it is something that everyone who grew up on our society falls under, it's inevitable until you actually unlearn that behavior.

The gallery scene talking about killing each other? How on Earth is that interpreted this way? Saying you read a meta means nothing in terms of being canon or not, unless the creator of the show wrote it.

Will had "no other option"? Who obligated him to stalk Hannibal and his whole life history in Europe? Who obligated him to speak to Hannibal after 3 years? Who obligated him to execute a escape plan?

Will had plenty of options, but chose Hannibal instead.

It is canon he was far from happy with Molly, he states that when Hannibal suggests the Dragon was targeting his family and he cackles and says "of course not", after figuring out that the Dragon targets happy families. He also very much left them to die, as Hannibal stated himself. He had all the reasons to believe they could be in danger but chose to ignore and leave them unprotected. He doesn't say I love you back to his wife, and the show's direction made sure we saw zero affection from Will to her, to depict the distance he had.

You said we can't "water down" the relationship in your other ask, yet you yourself did it in this one by saying he's "just a man trying desperately to stay sane". How is it just that? How is he so desperate to stay sane yet keeps WILLINGLY choosing to go with Hannibal?

How do you interpret Will talking to himself through Abigail's "ghost"? "Still want to go with him?" "yes", "we were supposed to leave together", "god knows where I'd be without him"??

How is he staying sane by continuously avoiding to just end Hannibal the multiple times he had the chance? If this isn't about THEM but just about "a man desperate to stay sane", then why on Earth does he keep going after Hannibal, saving him, stalking his whole life, obsessing over him, going back to him no matter what? If it was "just a man trying desperately to stay sane" the show could've ended in Season 2 after Will and Jack trapped him. Why did he call Hannibal and saved him?

What does Will's sanity have to do with him wanting to run away with Hannibal?? *he stated that, just saying cause it seems you are forgetting scenes.

Anyway, you asked if the fandom would accept you not shipping them but seems like you're not accepting that we ship them and it's canon 🤷🏻‍♀️.

#ask the lamb #this is hilarious to me #baffled #hannigram #nbc hannibal #hannibal #will graham #murder husbands #hugh dancy #hannibal lecter #mads mikkelsen

[ladybugpowermakeup]

Okay. Okay. Hear me out. Because I'm Greek mythology trash.

An Odyssey AU for Miraculous Ladybug. Think about it. Adrien is the most Odysseus character I've ever seen. Fake piano playing? Hiding in a fountain? I mean, it practically writes itself. And Marinette as Penelope is equally as perfect - she creates, but she's smart enough to pull it all apart at the end of the day.

Now here is where things get a little strange: Telemachus. Being an avid MLB fanfiction reader (and ignoring all of seasons 4 and 5), I'm very well aware that Adrienette's kids are supposedly going to be Louis, Hugo, and Emma. Now tell me, what could Emma be short for? That's right, Telemachus. So hear me out - Adrien was drafted into the war *Before* Emma was born, so he never knew he had a daughter and his last request for his child was to name them Telemachus. But when she was born a girl, she was nicknamed Emma. Hugo and Louis don't exist in this version, obviously.

So we have our main family, what about everyone else? Well, we have Adrian's two crewmates, Polites and Eurilochus. Or in this case, Nino and Felix. Nino is his friend who fought at his side and is tragically killed along the ride back, causing Adrian to go into a spiral of grief, whereas Felix is his somewhat suspicious and angry second in command who can't understand why Adrien is being so reckless with his own life and that of the crew to get back to his wife and child. So eventually he starts straight up sabotaging the trip to try and get through to Adrien, which doesn't ever work because when Adrien is in love, he doesn't notice other people.

As for the people they meet on their travels:

Circe is Lila - this one feels pretty self explanatory, except for the fact that Lila would never care that much about the nymphs around her, so I'm thinking she lives alone on the island and basically functions as a non-water siren - she draws men in with comfort and beauty and then turns them into pigs.

The wind god Aeolus is just Trixx - they're weird and whimsical and would absolutely give someone a bag of wind with the word "gold" written on it.

Calypso is Chloe, left there alone on this island for "protection" from her overbearing father, a minor deity. Again, this just kind of makes sense in my brain. And she gets a little bit of a redemption when she finally willingly lets Adrien go home.

When the crew of the ship go down into the underworld, they meet "Tyresius", who in this case is Master Fu. Weird cryptic old wise guy who's maybe dead? Yeah. That fits.

And finally we have the deities themselves. Like I said, Trixx is already accounted for, so we have three main ones - Posideon, Athena, and Hermes.

Posideon is most definitely ShadowMoth - not really any meaning behind this, we're just making him mysterious and powerful and angry at Adrien for seemingly no reason. But he's doing his best to keep this man from reaching home, possibly because early in the journey, Adrien was instrumental in killing a sentimonster, which canonically is kind of a piece of the creator.

Athena and Hermes are two of a pair - Tikki and Plagg, obviously. Wisdom and trickery, sounds just about right to me.

Anyway, this has been on my brain. Enjoy the weird crossover! If you do anything with it, please tag me!

#miraculous #mlb au #Miraculous Ladybug #mlb #rants from regina #miraculous ladybug #fanfiction #greek mythology #the oddyssey #oddyssey au #no i dont know either #adrien agreste #marinette dupain cheng #miraculous fanfic #fanfic #fanfic ideas

[burst-of-iridescent]

at the moment, 5.7k people are following the kataang tag, not 2.9k, as you said, why would you lie? in addition, even on Tumblr (which remained almost the last popular zk place among all fan platforms), Zukka is ahead of Zutara in popularity, and a lot of talented and popular creators of fan art and fan fiction are now concentrated in the Zukka and Maiko fandom. It is fundamentally a mistake to focus on the popularity of the ship, because shipping should be for personal pleasure, but this only shows that most people are ATLA fans (namely fans, not casual viewers) they actively love ATLA and did not see zutara in the canon. In addition, can you give evidence of your words that «almost all of the main cast and most of the writers» love zutara? From the cast, only Dante actively confessed his love for zutara, but he also spoke about his love for zukka, Mae Whitman not against Zutara and joked about it, but she also said in podcast that she also loves kataang, the rest of the actors did not speak at all about their preferences in shipping (except Grey DeLisle who prefers zucest).

none of the screenwriters has ever confessed his love for Zutara, on the contrary, Ehasz has said several times that he loves Maiko, he also wrote almost all the most significant maiko and kataang episodes. The only one of the 13 main writers of ATLA who spoke about sympathy for Zutara is John O'Bryan. Zutara never featured in any of the original scripts, and in ATLA's "bible," the only love triangle that was originally planned was Aang-Katara-Toph (who was a boy in the original script). In a recent interview, Ehaz also answered the question of how he feels about zutara vs kataang, that he, as a professional screenwriter, "follows his characters" and their final canonical choice of love interest is the choice of the character himself, not the writers.

.

i wrote 2.9k the first time around by mistake. the original post has since been amended to reflect the actual numbers of the kat.aang tag, though frankly the disparity between the two tags is still so large that i don’t even think it matters. anyway, my bad. thanks for letting me know.

many cast members and former writers on the official atla podcast, braving the elements, have talked about shipping zutara — including, but not limited to, dante basco, jack de sena, michaela murphy, joshua hamilton, and john o’bryan. grey delisle, mae whitman & greg baldwin have also spoken about being zutara shippers. i’m not sure why them liking or showing support for other ships somehow means they don’t ship zutara, because people don’t need to ship only a single couple to prove they’re “real” shippers lmao. i like azutara, sukitara, ty luko & even book 1 kat.aang myself; that doesn’t make me any less of a zutara shipper.

i’m also not sure why you expect me to do the work of providing evidence for you when, given the fact that you’re here, i’m certain you have just as much access to google as i do. this information is freely available online. feel free to fact check me.

and let me say this again, in case it was not clear enough: i truly do not care about zutara’s popularity. even if none of the cast and writers shipped it, even if the tag only had 10 people, even if every single wonderfully talented writer & artist & AMV editor & GIF maker in this fandom left, i would still ship it. because it’s a better story, because it is more thematically and narratively cohesive, and because it makes me happy.

and if you disagree with that, that’s fine by me. but somehow trying to “prove” to me that zutara is unpopular and no one likes it is not only a) factually false it’s also b) not going to do a damn thing to change my mind lmao. the opinions of other people have never been a reason for me to ship zutara, and they never will be.

#zutara

[snazzilystoopid]

This isnt a headcannon post, but I actually wanted to give my view on something. And PLEASE do not hate me for this 😭

....

COLE X VANIA IS NOT A BAD SHIP.

Okay, sure its not the best. But it's also not the worst..

*coughcough Greenflame coughcough* (JUST MY OPINION!! I see them as brothers.)

Now, let me explain.

So, it's kinda obvious that the creators felt bad that Cole hadn't gotten a love interest and decided to throw in Vania somehow idek but ANYWAYS

To put it simply, yall hate on her bc she "ruins" your headcannons??? Some of you ship Lava, or Bruise, or you hc him as aroace, but you also forget Vania is quite obviously not his love interest. Sure, most fans would think that she is, because she takes an interest in Cole, and they work together to stop Vangelis, and he hugs her in S16, and all of that, but that doesn't mean its fact.

(He literally said at the begining of motm that he "doesn't even like her like that" to Lloyd.)

I personally don't feel like Cole wouldn't want to date/be with someone right now, though I don't hc him as aroace.

I feel like Conia could've worked if they just gave them more time. I mean I think the ship is adorable, but they weren't given enough screen time together and they didn't give the two enough time to build an actual relationship.

Like Jay and Nya, for example, they had to go through ALOT just to end up together in Skybound.

I'm not saying they should've introduced Vania earlier, but I just feel like if their friendship had more effort put into it, Cole and Vania could've at least become close friends at most. If I'm being honest, if Conia was canon, I acc wouldn't mind it.

AND TELL ME WHY A COUPLE MONTHS AGO I SAW THIS TWITTER ACCOUNT BASHING SOMEONE FOR BEING HAPPY OVER THE FACT THAT COLE HUGGED VANIA IN CRYSTALIZED??

It's not that deep 😭

I thought the hug was cute tbh, and NO I personally don't think it's the best ship, but it's amazing in it's own weird way. So stop hating on it. Pls. And thank you 🥰

(If they aren't together, they're at least definitely besties. Sorry not sorry.)

#cole x vania #cole brookstone #lego ninjago #lloyd garmadon #ninjago #ninjago fanart #ninjago fandom #ninjago fic #ninjago headcanons #vania ninjago #conia #master of the mountain #ninjago motm #princess vania #queen vania #ninjago vania #ninjago vangelis #motm