#i just love being queerbaited by disney | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

alex-travaganza · 5 months

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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa did you see the new pnf short?

this is news to me. i’ve been focusing on my mental health (playing red dead redemption 2 and nothing else) for the past week so i’ve been offline but i gotta check this out…

what

i am so hype for this. i love it so much. it is amazing and i want more right now. please don’t read under the cut there’s definitely not a multi paragraph conspiracy theory underneath

I AM NOT ACCUSING ANYONE OF ANYTHING… i am just SAYING MY PEACE

us shippers are rejoicing, as we rightfully should, at this amazing w. but i just gotta be that one guy, i gotta poop on the party. could this be bordering into… and forgive me for uttering these words… queerbaiting?

i know the idea of being queerbaited by an evil scientist man and a secret agent playtpus is ridiculous and hilarious, but r we getting johnlocked just a little bit? maybe just a little…. because i’ve always been of the opinion that perryshmirtz will most likely never be a canon storyline for a bunch of reasons, and as much as i’d like that to happen, i can see how some oblivious straight people (so… probably a lot of the writers let’s be real) could reasonably watch all of phineas and ferb and think there’s absolutely nothing homoromantic going on between the two of them. like of course there’s jokes about them being like couple in the same way we get it for buford and bajeet, but, at least when it was airing at the time that it was, that was neverrr going to be acknowledged as anything but funny funny haha joke. like i love dwampy but this show is not crowned for its thoughtful and progressive takes there is SOOOOO much racial stereotyping and ignorant shit in pnf. relationships between two men were not going to hold the same narrative weight as a hetero relationship

so yes i think it’s a bit of a stretch to say pnf in itself is queerbaiting with perryshmirtz, but THESE SHORTS… this is like……. a lot man it’s a lot man it’s a blessing and a curse. i hope it’s just a couple folks who like perryshmirtz putting those bits for funsies but i’m getting suspicious. i’m raising my eyebrows up and down, feeling as if i’m seeing flags of a.. pinkish hue… reddish, perhaps.

and this is disneyyyy cmmmonnn all these hip new queer kid shows? they’re doing pretty good. of course, we aren’t going to ruin our precious precious phineas and ferb IP for the foreign market by putting a gay relationship in the actual show, but it couldn’t hurt to draw in a few tumblr and tiktok queers from our homoromantic little shorts, eh? ehh? it’s a big market, kids aren’t just tuning in on cable tvs anymore to watch phineas and ferb, we need a little more outreach. it’s all about streaming babbbyy it’s all about that disney plus! get those queers watching the new seasons of phineas and ferb when they’re finished binging the owl house!

are you understanding my friends? i am no messiah of perryshmirtz. that’s liz. but maybe, i shall be a mere messenger spreading my annoying takes amongst the land. or maybe it’s not that deep because 8 year olds watching phineas and ferb don’t care. but it’s a free website baybe

#you all follow me for my opinions right #or breaking danville #or perrysmirtz loss #either way you’re getting my opinions #perryshmirtz #phineas and ferb #heinz doofenshmirtz #perry the playtpus #asks #ask #thank you:#anonymous

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cursedvibes · 2 months

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jjk having queer-coded villains seems to be an intentional choice. what are your thoughts on this

Honestly, I think the queer themes and characters we've gotten in jjk are pretty great. Yes, some of them are villains and that is a common harmful trope, but first of all it is not just the villains and second you have to look at how their queerness is portrayed and implemented into their characters.

We have characters like Kirara and Hakari and I think you can count Tengen too, who are queer(-coded) and not villains. Their queerness is pretty explicit in case of Kirara and Tengen with Kirara having clearly transitioned and being some flavour of trans and Tengen also openly stating she's lost interest in gender and is if anything a gnc woman. Queerness is also not their entire character, just one minor aspect of it that is honestly not that important. Tengen being responsible for the creation of jujutsu society and Kirara rebelling against the school and then choosing to aid the kids in the Culling Game is much more significant than their gender. Tengen corrects Yuki about being a man and then we move on, it is not actually a big deal. Yuki is more concerned with Tengen's actions than her gender.

The comment from Panda insisting that Kirara is a guy was weird, but it isn't brought up again, everyone just doesn't gender Kirara when seeing them without making a big deal about how "weird" it is for a presumed guy to have boobs like you might've expected in other pieces of media. The implication here I think is just that Panda hasn't seen Kirara in a while nor knows them very well. The comment was unnecessary in my opinion, you could've shown in a better way that Kirara transitioned, but the way it is treated afterwards makes it better. I think it especially helps that we see Hakari so accepting of Kirara, it is something normal and their relationship is loving. Kirara's gender or presumed sex is no issue at all between them and the other characters just roll with it too.

Same could be said for things like Geto and Gojo's relationship for example, the most prominent example of queer-coding in jjk as is also heavily displayed in marketing for season 2 of the anime. Obvious choice, they are by for the most popular ship and tapping into shipping sells. Their the sasunaru of jjk. I don't think you could call it queerbaiting though because contrary to sasunaru you don't have this "jk they both ended up marrying some random women like the heterosexual men they are" and there are literally no confirmed relationships in jjk anywhere except for the people who are married (and those usually don't love each other). stsg have as much ground to stand on as Kirara/Hakari or Muta/Miwa. They are milking that money cow, but with the way it is handled in canon, it doesn't bother me much ignoring their fanbase.

Another aspect we see in stsg that also applies to how we see queerness in some of the villains is that their relationship (of whatever nature that might be) is there to humanize both Gojo and Geto. There is actually some meaning to it, not just shipper bait or an insane villain being gay and that being included as another aspect of him being reproachful like you see with many Disney villains. Geto's bond with Gojo (and his family) is portrayed as the last bits of sanity left in him and also any criticism you'd leverage against that could apply to Gojo as well, a main character.

Similar with the queerness of the other villains. It is either an unimportant detail of their identity or it is actively used to humanize them. Uraume's gender is purposefully unconfirmed, nobody even makes any assumptions and that fact is about as important as their hair colour. It's just part of their identity, nothing more. It is not portrayed as predatory or used for any "trap" jokes. At least not in canon, the fandom is its own beast and I think their behaviour comes from what they are used to seeing in other media not due to anything done in jjk.

Kashimo falls into the same category of unconfirmed gender. Fans and some fantranslators assume Kashimo is a man based on what they looked like in the past, but it is actually never confirmed in the manga. Neither Hakari or anyone else ever genders Kashimo. There being no assumptions made or their possible gender or androgynous appearance discussed. People just roll with it and it isn't made to stand out in the story. I don't think you can even call Kashimo a villain, more like an antagonist similar to Higuruma was one with selfish morality. Their gender or appearance doesn't play into that at all.

With Kenjaku I guess you could see them taking over Kaori as predatory towards Jin, but it is played different than the common tropes. For one, Jin is as it seems aware of the change, just chooses to ignore it. It isn't played as a "man tricked other man into sex" or "man disguised as a woman", in fact the story goes quite out of its way to state that Kenjaku isn't (cis) male actually. Both Wasuke and Jin address Kenjaku as a women, even when they have suspicions. Kaori stays in some form with Kenjaku, she isn't just a cheap disguise and pregnancy overall is an important topic for Kenjaku both in good and bad ways. When Kenjaku says "thank you for getting along with my son" it is the first big step towards giving Kenjaku more depth than just them being a big bad mastermind. Kenjaku cares in some way for their child and doesn't just see him as a test subject. So the time in Kaori's body clearly had value to them as well beyond just getting a vessel for Sukuna. Same goes for their meeting with Takaba for example, which is the biggest example we got so far of Kenjaku being proven to care about other people and gaining depth through it. Their relationship with Tengen could count as well.

So the queer aspects we got of Kenjaku are there, but they aren't shown in canon to be something strange, quite the opposite usually. I think you see it best when you compare Kenjaku to Orochimaru, who clearly, as stated by Gege too, is a big influence for the character. Orochimaru has the body of a woman in the first part of the series, takes over the bodies of children and shows interest in Sasuke that is often seen as gay. Orochimaru is portrayed as predatory particularly towards children/boys, a persistent stereotype of gay and/or effeminate men as well as trans people. When Orochimaru reveals in the fight against Hiruzen that he inhabits the body of a woman, the characters around are disgusted and not only because this means another person's body was violated, the uncertainty of Orochimaru's gender unsettles them. You see the same thing in Boruto. Multiple characters make mean or disgusted comments about Orochimaru because they can't tell their gender and the whole "are you a man or a woman, a father or a mother" gets pushed a lot, often used as a joke. Mitsuki is being supportive and corrects people, but that doesn't stop Orochimaru's gender being brought up almost every time they feature in the series. "omg I can't tell this person's gender this is so weird and creepy" don't you have more pressing concerns like the fetuses swimming in those tanks or the human cloning?

Compared to that, Kenjaku is handled much better. There is no weird fixation on children, they have only taken over adults from what we've seen so far (due to the size of their brain and it being a real organ I think that is even a necessity) and the bodies are also mainly there for practical needs, Kenjaku isn't shown lusting after them no matter the person's gender. Choso goes from assuming Kenjaku is Yuuji's father to calling them a parent. It isn't commented on, we just assume Tengen informed him. Kenjaku being revealed to be Yuuji's mother isn't shocking because "wtf that's a man in a woman's body", it is more so about the implications of them being related. It is also used to show that Kenjaku is actually not a cis man (everyone at that time even doubting Wasuke uses she/her naturally with Kenjaku not objecting to it despite not really pretending to be Kaori) and by being his mother they have a closer personal connection to Yuuji. The fandom usually puts more harmful tropes into this moment than there actually are in the manga. I'm pretty sure Yuuji was more concerned about Kenjaku actually being related to him than Kenjaku being his mother aka exhibiting a gender he might not have expected. The "my father is your mother that's so mind-boggling and weird" is something that only exists in fandom. I don't see a reason why Choso or Yuuji would care and everyone else even less.

Takaba putting Kenjaku in a nurse outfit is also only portrayed as another fun part of their shenanigans, being neither overly sexualized nor seen as off-putting or weird. I think it was actually put there because Gege wanted to emphasize once more that having a female body doesn't unsettle Kenjaku, they see it as normal. It is part of their identity, but that itself isn't the thing being made fun of, it's a joke about sexy nurses that's detrimental to Takaba if anything.

In the same way, Kenjaku being pregnant with Tengen isn't made a big deal either beyond what it means for the Culling Game or the merger. It isn't a strange pregnant man, just another instance of pregnancy symbolism in this manga where cursed wombs are quite a common thing. And Kenjaku's whole deal is motherhood, birth and pregnancy down to the choice of their name, which is derived from an ambiguously gendered or Virgin Mary-adjacent bodhisattva. These pregnancy themes are shown as both a good thing and a bad thing depending on the context and not on principle as disgusting or bad. Kenjaku's gender fluidity has thematic relevance, but it isn't mocked or portrayed as bad by itself.

Beyond Uraume, Kenjaku and maybe Geto depending on how you look at it, I don't think there are any other queer-coded villains? Mahito was a high school girl for a juju sanpo, but that episode was more wholesome if anything and I think it was just there to show his fluidity in sex and gender. Once again not mocked or brought up as a reason for why he's evil (she isn't even that evil in that high school AU).

So yeah, I don't see a problem here, I actually wish more mangas or animes would portray queer characters this way. Make sure villains aren't the only queer characters, don't make queerness their entire character trait and treat the characters with respect.

#asks #jujutsu kaisen

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busyxfangirling · 6 months

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The second season is honestly becoming increasingly harder to watch because what are they trying to do?

The show is titled Loki but he feels like a side character is his own show, I know many MANY things are happening but literally Loki is not the central figure driving the story.

My expectations were low but I did not know Disney could do this much worse!!!!

What the FUCK was episode 3 with the Miss Minutes thing and weird little Ravonna/Victor attempt???

Marvel is just getting worse and worse with what they're putting out, I want the character or even narrative driven stories back where people were well fleshed out, had consistency and their actions made sense to who there were!!! This feels like just trying to sell shock value because you know you have a base of consumers who will stay to see what happens to their favourite character.

They are absolutely ignoring all the material they have available to them to work with! This Loki has only experienced things till the Avengers movie, there is so much character deep dive they could do! What is the point of giving them their own show and then not talking about them at all??

I'll come to the queer things later cause boy do I have a list for that, but first of all, Loki is not a new character in any capacity??? He has been loved and is arguably the biggest fan favourite since his introduction, the amount of theories about him and what people would like to see is very well known!! Right in front of them is his still unclear feelings in his adoption, about being a Jotun, loosing his family and the complicated relationships with them. I can see they are acknowledging his God of Mischief status a little bit but!! Trickster!! Let us see him be a wild card properly!! Not in the sense of betraying his new TVA family - that's what it is and you can fight me on that- but being chaotic!! Yes, using his magic like with Brad!! SHOW ME HE IS A GOD!!!

The worst thing is how lost everyone feels, like I'm not talking about the whole free will conundrum everyone is going through, that is spectacular! Unfortunately it is not coming across, we literally don't get to hear any of the characters talk about what they think of it. There was the key lime pie moment but no follow up to what that is for Loki? It's just one crisis after another, maybe rehash some of what has already happened, bring back the seriousness of this!! The entire multiverse is at stake but we'll make it look like whimsical wishy-washy stuff??!??!!!

Don't get me wrong, I am LOVING the time travel aspect of it, where it looks like Loki/Mobius are on cute dates. But then make it real, the fucking queerbaiting is ridiculous. The throw-away comment in season one about looking being bi was just that and nothing else. And I'm not saying this cause aww they look cute together! But also cause the development of their relationship has been as such!! They have been very dependent on each other and that's not being addressed at all.

I know there are multiple posts about a possible betrayal and my fear is that they're going to try to use that to basically change everything about the characters again, a lot of OOC based on the fact that oh yeah they're going through an existential crises so it makes sense.

Sylkie made barely any sense to me even apart from the whole selfcest issue- they just imposed a the structure of what a straight relationship should be where there was barely any chemistry. S1 E3 had them as really good chaotic siblings/twins and then adding the romantic tones to that really ruined it. Trying to bring it back, possibly, is just weird cause so far they want very different things. These people just don't align together, stop forcing them to? The fact that they refuse to even talk about that kiss shows that they are keeping it open and not just acknowledging that "hey, we don't want the same things in life and I'm happy for you, you matter a lot to me but a romantic relationship is not happening. Also cause you know, we're the same person, lol."

Sylvie as a character is also very confusing rn, there is honestly no need for her to keep coming back in this way??? I'm going to reserve further opinions because half the season is left but I dont expect anything to really get better.

#loki #marvel #lokius #loki season 2 #loki spoilers #mobius #kang #loki tv series #sylvie #rant

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rocksandaces · 7 months

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Subtle but consistent representation is not queerbaiting

Forgettable, negligible representation with little impact on the plot, done just to have a pairing - this is queerbaiting

Good Omens is not queerbaiting because Crowley-Aziraphale relationship had a huge impact on the plot. And if you say it wasn't obvious from the beginning I would recommend watching the show with more attention

Most Disney/Pixar animations is queerbaiting even though their representation is much more obvious than Good Omens (mostly talking about season one). Yeah, Lightyear had a confirmed same sex couple. Too bad it didn't affect the plot in any way and was in like 3 seconds of the movie. Same with Onward, as much as I love it, having a minor female character mentioning having a girlfriend is cool but it's not something you can really be proud of. Same with Avengers: Endgame. It doesn't affect the plot, it's just there so you could say "hey, we have a gay couple in the movie!". Wow, thank you. If only I could remember their names

Nobody wants just representation. People want good representation that affects the plot, is relevant and fun to watch. That cannot be cut out when you want to release it in a homophobic country. Look at Nimona and Ballister/Ambrosius ship. It has some issues, but their love is an essential part of the plot as they are forced against each other. You cannot cut it out or ignore it

If I have to rewatch the movie to find one sentence when character mentions being quuer, the movie doesn't have good representation

#lgbtq #queer #queerbaiting #gay #lesbian #good omens spoilers #good omens season 2 #good omens #nimona #ballister x ambrosius

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akajustmerry · 2 years

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even though its had some benefits, i really hate how the lines between fandom and entertainment industry are becoming more and more blurred because tiktokers and Instagrammers can build whole careers off basically being shills for Disney. I hate how when I was growing up in fandom you could post your opinions/make memes/fanart and there was next to zero chance of the creators of the media seeing it. now these companies mine fandom interaction to generate these storyless high-budget fan-service media that are just designed to generate money and more fandom interaction. i genuinely find it loathesome that the joy of creating fan stuff has become a commodity. i don’t think its a good thing that there are “professional marvel influencers” who are paid in part by disney to influence fandom. i hate that companies use gifs/fanart/ fan works to promote their content and make money. i hate that shows are edited and adjusted because the production company saw that fans online predicted something. i hate that fans of media post funny predictions and their ideas are stolen by these big companies. i hate that these interactions have fostered a sense of entitlement like, “we posted about how much we loved y character so they shouldn’t have been killed them”. i hate how fans misuse the “social contract” and “queerbaiting” and how it leads to these stupid interviews where creators are asked about fan discourse they have nothing to do with. i hate how younger fans seeking to build influencer careers and clout are so desperate to get endorsement by these companies they’re pushing anti-intellectualism that’s ruined people’s ability to criticise media in a normal way. i hate that the unpaid labour of fandom is so well known that it was weaponised in jdepp’s court case to make the world more unsafe for survivors of abuse. i hate how late capitalism means we can’t even enjoy being a fan of something without the intervention of corporations. while there has been some progress in terms of representation because of corporate interaction with fan culture, i still ultimately hate how late-capitalism is ruining sincere storytelling and how we interact with storytelling.

#fandom #text #// okay to reblog #/

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youreyesdontglow · 2 years

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So. I just watched the school for good and evil movie. As someone who has been a fan of the book series for nearly ten years, here are my thoughts on it:

Pros:

Agatha and Sophie have great chemistry, as do Agatha and Tedros. Sophie and Tedros... Don't! Which is also good!

Lady lesso and Dovey are amazing. 10/10 casting

I actually liked most of the changes to the plot. The second book was never my favorite so I'm sort of glad they skipped over it and completely omitted the Sophie/Tedros. In the movie it's clear Sophie was never really into him besides the idea of him as a prince.

In the same vein, I liked how they changed Rafal. I never liked him very much as a character and making him a whole ass creepy adult instead of a blonde twilight-esque immortal teen was for the better.

The soundtrack and costuming was so campy. I love it. Got Jumpscared by the Eurovision song at the end though

Hort was perfect in every way. He's such a loser I want to study him under a microscope

Cons:

Really could have used more world building. I get it, it's a movie and there's only so much things you can fit into two and a half hours (in fact I'm a bit impressed they fit as much as they did in) but a lot of the charm of the books is from the world outside of the school and the magic system! It's what separates it from stuff like ever after high or Disney's descendants.

The actress they cast for Agatha, while perfect for the role in every other way, was simply not ugly. She could not sell me on her otherness. Visually she fit right in with all the other princesses at the good school.

While I loved a lot about Lesso and Dovey, I don't like that their friendship was removed. They're my Baby's First Lesbian Ship and I love their dynamic in the books, which the movie didn't even try to match.

If I'm remembering the books correctly, it seems like they gave Agatha's mom's backstory to Lesso instead. Bit of an odd choice, but it gives me hope for the retconning of the sisters thing. Speaking of...

The sisters thing

Yes, they're sisters in the books. Disappointing, I know. I've been reading posts of people experiencing what I like to call "sister reveal syndrome" all day.

I've seen a lot of people complain about the movie being queerbaiting. I totally understand where they're coming from. The movie didn't delve into the whole romance vs friendship plotline that the books had, which makes the true love's kiss at the end really seem like it was meant to be romantic.

In the books, one of the biggest themes is that platonic or familial love is just as important, if not more so, than romantic love. My personal feelings about it aside, the kiss at the end of the book made sense and was clearly not intended as romantic. The movie just didn't hit the same mark so it's completely understandable that people would be disappointed in Agatha and Sophie's relationship.

But like I mentioned earlier, it really does seem like the movies are planning on retconning the sisters plotline. Due to the casting Agatha doesn't look a lot like Sophie's dad or her mom (unless when Sophie's mom turned herself prettier for stephen she also... No, they wouldn't.) And they implied Lesso fills the role Agatha's mom is meant to. And no mention was made of Galvadon being related to the fairy tale world in any way.

Overall, I did enjoy the movie a lot. It isn't like the books, but I don't think that's a bad thing.

#the school for good and evil #tsfgae #sophie of woods beyond #agatha of woods beyond #sge tedros #sge #the school for good and evil movie spoilers #sge movie #sge movie spoilers

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peachyqueenly · 6 months

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Cookie Run, Queerbait, and why the concept does not apply to SeaMoon... 2!!!

//This is a repost of an older post, as something else came up that I wanted to add to this analysis. If you don't want to reread the entire thing, feel free to skip to the section headed with 'Queerbait: Lost in Translation'.//

There are a lot of issues with the way Devsis, the developers behind Cookie Run, handle diversity in their games. Most notably, it falls into the common trap many, MANY gacha games do in that it partakes in a lot of orientalist tropes. But one debate I’ve seen that I just cannot get behind, as a lesbian, is the idea that they have queerbaited-- most namely, with SeaMoon.

Below the cut, I will explain why: what queerbait is and what it looks like, queerbaiting vs coding, and why comparing WlW tropes from other countries to queerbaiting is unfair (and also maybe don’t apply a Japanese literary concept to a Korean game, more on that later). All in a bid to show why it is not only wrong to compare SeaMoon to queerbaiting, it is harmful.

SeaMoon, for those unfamiliar, is the name popularly given to the ship between Sea Fairy Cookie and Moonlight Cookie in Cookie Run. Aside from the ocean and the moon being a common motif for romance in fiction already, the game had hinted at their romance in a lot of in-game and side material. Most namely, Sea Fairy’s line about Moonlight’s heart ‘being the warmest’ and the “I want you Everyday” music video with their moment together + the lines that went along with that moment...

Your love brought spring to my endless winter...

For more examples of where their romance was suggested, I recommend this doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LPJU8yBYD8Ng7lhh_lR0bA2XRwmJTtbRceGuKahFxFs/edit

The point is, most WlW in this fandom caught onto the romantic ramifications of the ship long before Moonlight was expanded on in Kingdom and the recent updates all but confirmed their mutual affection towards one another. The two of them even got matching costumes and a bond story that was as close to romance as Cookie Run would do (as it is ultimately not a romance centered franchise).

With who they are established...

Queerbait: What is it?

Queerbaiting most popularly is understood as a marketing gimmick where creators and multimedia companies suggest queerness to draw in LGBT people and allies, only for the rug to be pulled out from underneath fans. Though it has other meanings, especially in other cultures as I'll explain more below. Whether this is utilizing the ‘bury your gays’ trope, the rep being constrained to insignificant side characters/moments, or just not existing at all.

The two most popular examples of queerbaiting would be recent Disney movies and Voltron. Though special shoutout to Harry Potter, as if we didn’t have enough reasons to hate the book series and JKR. As the stuff with Dumbledore was an obvious retcon to go ‘look how progressive I am!!!’.

Voltron’s last season had two key things regarding queerbait: the Klance drama (the ship between Keith and Lance) and Shiro’s bait and switch with his partner.

To the show’s credit, Shiro was actually gay. Even revealed to have had a partner he was engaged to. However, this rug was pulled out from underneath fans when they actively killed said partner. He was given another partner in the epilogue, but the fact he was revealed to be gay only for his partner to be killed off (coupled with the next thing) upset many queer fans.

Klance is a lot more insidious. In the run up to the final season, Netflix and the crew actively promoted the show using Klance and its popular support. Despite the fact they knew the relationship was never intended to be canon. This is one of the most explicit examples of queerbaiting out there, and is foundational to understanding the specificity and insidiousness of the marketing ploy.

For Disney, I would like to focus on the Star Wars sequels and Beauty and the Beast (2017). The last movie of the sequel trilogy had the creators talking about how there would be queer rep... leading many queer fans to believe they were talking about Finn and Poe for obvious reasons, something the creators never corrected/confirmed. Only for the rep to merely be two background characters in one scene.

As for Beauty and the Beast, Le Fou was celebrated as Disney’s first openly gay character, leading folks to believe they’d explore him having feelings for the titular bad guy. But that was never really explored in any meaningful way, and the rep we got of him was a ‘blink and you’ll miss it’ moment between him and an unnamed character. Arguably he could fall more into coding, but the fact Disney actively marketed him for his gayness is where it bleeds into queerbaiting.

In general, queerbaiting is a more modern problem, as companies feel they can say the word gay now. But are still wishy-washy on actual depictions of queerness. So we get them celebrating their inclusion, even if it’s ultimately little to nothing.

Queerbaiting vs Queer Coding

This is when an important distinction needs to be made: what is queerbaiting and what is queer coding. Queer coding is when media uses subtext, but never explicitly says, a character is gay. A good way to understand this is to compare 90′s disney movies to modern ones.

As discussed above, modern Disney will often go on about having queerness in their movies only for it to be minimal at best if not existent. 90′s Disney meanwhile never marketed their movies as having LGBT elements, but many fans could see the way in which queerness came through from characters like Ursula (literally modeled off a drag queen), Scar, and Hades.

Queer coding can be seen as a product of the Hays Code era-- where positive depictions of ‘perverse sexuality’ (including homosexuality) was not allowed in film, relegating a lot of queerness to the roles of villains (hence the association Disney villains have with it). That, or queer creators had to find ways of coding their heroes in ways that went under the nose of cishet audiences.

Queer coding exists in a net-neutral space. As queer coding, while in many ways is outdated in a world where media can show explicit LGBT rep, was integral to the ways in which queer creators told their stories for years. And actively influences the way many queer creators continue to tell their story (for better and for worse). It can also perpetrate stereotypes against queer people, as we saw with the Disney villains, however.

Still, this is different than the relatively modern concept of queerbaiting as that is largely a negative phenomenon. Queer coding was a tool used and is still used by actual LGBT people, while queerbaiting is more often than not the work of cishet folks or corporations wanting to make a quick buck.

Queerbait: Lost in Translation

Another element of queerbait I did not previously address is how its more commonly understood in the context of cultures' media (such as in Eastern countries like Korea and Japan). As the financial reasoning behind the idea isn't as front and center (for a myriad of complicated reasons regarding how explicit queer rep can be from country to country). Though this definition of queerbait can also apply to US and English based media.

To some, queerbait also applies to coded LGBT relationships that are primarily centered on or meant to appeal to straight audiences (WlW rep meant for the male gaze, MlM rep meant for girls).

In other words, fetishized LGBT coding.

I would personally argue (as a queer non binary lesbian) that this meaning is less insidious than the money making logic behind modern queer baiting that happens in the US mainly, but its for an important reason...

A lot of this queerbait relies on elements of coding still. While the way many Western viewers see queerbait in American media relies on using explicit queerness as a marketing ploy. To compare, let's look at idol/sports anime and the previously mentioned Disney movies.

The idea that idol/sports anime is queerbait is... contentious. And one I'm not entirely sure I even agree on. But it is undeniable that some of its more WlW centric scenes appeal to the male audiences that view these shows or games. Still, nothing is ever made explicit. It utilizes elements of queer coding originating from the yuri/gl genre that was built up by queer people themselves.

To some, this may be more insulting. For me personally though coding has always been a net neutral, and this form of coding is just more on the negative end for me. Still, there is something there for queer people to take away.

Meanwhile, the way in which disney queerbaits its audience is by saying their character is LGBT then... doing nothing with it. Not even elements of coding. Just-- 'yep there's a gay character in our movie come watch it'!!! Its a lot more soulless compared to the previous one, and therefore to me is more insulting.

Why SeaMoon falls more into Coding

With the two elements defined, let’s explain why SeaMoon falls more into the realm of coding rather than baiting.

First off, the way the devs write romance is consistent with how they wrote SeaMoon. Most of the ways in which things were left vague before Kingdom could be explained in the devs unfortunate habit of not elaborating on things they really should elaborate on. On top of romance in general being coded rather than explicit in the franchise.

As an example, lets discuss the two closest things to M/F romance we have in the franchise-- PureLily (Pure Vanilla and White Lily) and MintCocoa (Mint Choco and Cocoa).

PureLily became more explicit in the same update as SeaMoon (with Pure Vanilla wondering aloud if he still loves her), but in general the way their relationship was shown before the Crunchy Dreams event was largely through subtext (how the two spoke of one another, PV’s garden, etc) and outside material (the love quiz).

This also applies to MintCocoa. During the days of OB, the game itself did not elaborate much on either of the two’s characters (just as they didn’t with Moonlight). With most of their romantic subtext (like SeaMoon) being in outside videos, media, and merch. Kingdom in general seems more willing to elaborate on romance, as we saw in the story that came with Cocoa’s release.

And secondly, the devs never really threw SeaMoon around as a way of saying ‘look how progressive we are’ or to appeal specifically to LGBT fans. Anytime SeaMoon was included in media, it was often alongside other coded relationships such as MintCocoa or things like RaspRose (Raspberry Mousse x Rose). And even the times they did do things like promote themselves during pride month, they never used SeaMoon. Instead they used the Hollyberry kingdom (due to its bg having same-gender couples dancing and having drinks together).

The way SeaMoon was treated up until the recent Kingdom update was more in line with queer coding rather than queer baiting. Which is NOT perfect, as media should go beyond coding in the modern age. But it is not as bad or as insidious as queerbaiting implies.

Not as insidious as either definition of queerbait; as nothing about the relationship between them is really centered on being for the male or fetishized gaze either. They're Cookies... in a series where romance is not a focus. While one could argue their romance is stuck more into the background compared to say MintCocoa and PureLily, it still isn't designed to be fetishized (in canon, what fandoms do with SeaMoon and other LGBT ships is its own matter).

Extra Note on S Class Comparisons

S Class is a trope in Japanese media where two girls will often have a very close bond, akin to romance. However, it is ultimately still platonic and disappears upon either graduation from school or marriage. It is over 100 years old, with some of the first pieces of the genre being in the early 1900′s. And was a major influence on the yuri, more commonly called GL now, genre.

Before anything else, I want to offer a brief aside that maybe we should be careful when comparing a Japanese literary trope to a Korean game. Comparing the two countries can be a very... very touchy subject matter. Especially in the context of this being a genre that rose in popularity during the colonization of Korea by Japan.

I do NOT think you can compare SeaMoon or anything in CR to S Class tropes. But I will discuss it just to clear things up, as I find comparing the trope to queerbaiting problematic.

It is more akin to queer coding rather than queer baiting. Why? Many of the authors who utilized the trope were queer themselves. In fact, “Obuko Yoshiya, a lesbian Japanese novelist active in the Bluestocking feminist movement, is regarded as a pioneer of Class S literature”. Again, a key factor that separates coding and baiting (being that queer creators will often code but won’t bait).

The genre is at its worst stifling and harmful to the modern day GL genre in Japanese literature, and extremely heteronormative. But to compare it to things like queerbaiting or to entirely dismiss it as a form of WlW rep in the context of how it was used by actual queer people in Japan is entirely unfair to the genre; queer rep does not look the same in every country.

S Class also evades the way in which queerbait can mean being meant for the male gaze, as it is a trope whose origins lie earnestly in media meant for girls. That does not mean it can't be used to appeal to the male gaze, but it is not where it started.

Ending Notes

Are the devs perfect in their representation of SeaMoon and WlW? Of course not, there is a valid conversation to be had on how queer relationships constantly being merely coded rather than explicit is annoying and hurtful. And more and more queer people have this critique of the concept of queer coding. On a personal level, I can forgive it in this specific case cause its in line with how the devs do romance in general. But if it bothers you that it was merely coded for the longest time rather than explicit, that’s entirely valid.

But the idea the devs ever queerbaited audiences is unfair and actively makes many WlW feel invalidated in how they easily saw the coding present in the two’s relationship. Again, queer coding is a net neutral phenomenon while queerbaiting is mostly negative. To subscribe such a notion to what is important rep to so many WlW is hurtful.

Sources

https://www.animefeminist.com/escape-yuri-hell-flip-flappers-critique-class-s-genre/

https://bookriot.com/what-is-queerbaiting-vs-queer-coding/

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LPJU8yBYD8Ng7lhh_lR0bA2XRwmJTtbRceGuKahFxFs/edit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_S_(genre)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queerbaiting#:~:text=Queerbaiting%20is%20a%20marketing%20technique,romance%20or%20other%20LGBTQ%2B%20representation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer_coding#:~:text=Queer%20coding%20is%20the%20subtextual,character%20in%20media%20as%20queer.

#cookie run #cookie run kingdom #crk #sea fairy cookie #moonlight cookie #seamoon #media analysis #lgbt writing #lgbt #queer coding #queerbaiting #crob #cookie run ovenbreak

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desertsongpdf · 1 year

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VIDEO ESSAYS (part ??? 1/2) [parts: 1 / 2 / 3 / 3.5 / 4 / 5 / 6], *=personal fav

ronald reagan & the biggest failure in physics (1) / george bush vomited & set physics back by a decade (2) / bill clinton & the day physics died (3)

the man who almost faked his way to a nobel prize (1) / suspicions are swirling and bell labs is burning (2)

the man who tried to fake an element

air: an honest review

what if you put your head in a particle accelerator

the most successful scientific theory ever: the standard model

the five kinds of paradox

disney channel's theme: a history mystery*

music theory and white supremacy*

the power of nostalgic music

we tracked what happens after tiktok songs go viral

why spotify playlists never truly shuffle

will toledo and the rise of car seat headrest

kid a: the greatest left turn in music history

how trailer music tricks you

why steve lacy is annoyed.

the postmodern horror of tiktok's encanto discourse*

the queer history of weimar germany

queerbaiting celebrities: an over analysis*

why queer relationship dynamics are harder: the stable marrige problem

queer rage & the christian right

overanalyzing the barbie movies with a queer marxist theory

the gay appeal of toxic love

queering cinema (by any means necessary)

the tragedy of being rich

what the internet did to garfield*

your college essay didn't get you accepted, you're just rich

why are you so angry? part 1: a short history of anita sarkeesian / part 2: angry jack / part 3: perception is everything / part 4: an autopsy on gamergate / part 5: 'the good guy' / part 6: talking to angry jack

the modern diogenes: a guide to slavoj zizek

stimulating alternate voting systems

men are miserable: tiktok's depression pipeline

the broken mythology of great men

so you're having an existential crisis

why is gen z humor so weird?

how to be correct about everything all the time

useful idiots and the groomer panic

why extinction loves the ugly - the 'cute' defence

paris saint-germain: a legacy of failure

why did sebastian vettel get called out on national tv?

an introduction to match fixing in football

the debacle of blue clay: used once and never again

atticus is everything wrong with modern poetry*

how the publishing industry failed 'lolita' (as told by terrible book covers)

the death of the teen fantasy era

recreating the fashion of my immortal

hijacking the dead? terry prachett & the trans 'debate'

this best-selling novel was a total hoax

the little book of cosmic horrors

the absurd 2nd century space opera you'll never read

fantasy is very pro-monarchy (and that's weird)

anti-smoking campaigns on tiktok

why did our brains shrink

the origins of the anti-christ

world war one performance tier list

the psychology behind conspiracy theories

why are there two a's?

i fixed the alphabet / i fixed the alphabet more

hangman is a weird game

the curious history of ignorant tattoos

the arguments for god's existance tier list

projecting 'boris is a wet wipe' on houses of parliment

buddhism is kinda out there, man

mortis - internet mysteries

the universe iceberg explained

reviewing every mental illness

#video essays #some of these are so good i loveeee all of the jack saint and alexander avila ones 10/10

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hitchell-mope · 1 year

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Phrases I think [tumblr] needs to learn.

They are. Temporal context. Periphery demographic. Queerbaiting. Collateral damage. Three of which a lot of people use incorrectly to their advantage. And another that I’m 90% sure they’re ignorant about the actual meaning of. So for the purposes of this post I’ll be listing them along with the meanings and some examples. Like so:

Temporal context. Understanding that when a show, film or book is made and/or set more often than not influences its contents. For example. Stranger things. Friends. Harry Potter. Original star trek. Classic doctor who. You cannot and should not approach these with a 2022 mindset because things made and set twenty or a hundred or hell even five years ago are never going to match the current morality system you’ve cultivated through social media. Either continue being mad that a show set in Reagan’s America hasn’t said the words gay or lesbian to describe its two lgbt characters yet or acknowledge they’re doing a helluva lot more than an actual show from the eighties would’ve done, move on and enjoy what they’ve done so far. Trust me. You’ll be so much better off if you do

Periphery demographic. Why we aren’t getting actual canonical lgbt characters in mainstream Disney movies while the current old guard are still around. It’s all very well and good to go on about how “don’t they know what I would’ve done for representation as a kid?” But they don’t. Because they don’t care about the Tumblr demographic. They care about entertaining the five year olds and the parents with the money to spend on the film who might not want to take the kids to see it if there’s anything they might find objectionable in it. And sadly. Quite a few believe that lgbt content kids films is poisonous to their precious offspring. It’s a truly, truly, horribly shitty belief system. But still. It’s the ugly truth.

Queerbaiting. I’ve heard of it. I’ve never seen it. And all the pairings I’ve seen labelled as it. Ain’t it. Destiel. Supercorp. Swan queen. Byler. Johnlock. That’s not queerbaiting. That’s fans latching on to something that isn’t there and going ballistic and quite frankly terrifyingly entitled when it doesn’t happen. Just because you think a character that’s only ever been interested in the opposite gender is secretly gay and in love with your obsession doesn’t make them gay or make you right. No matter how much meta, fanfic or gifsets you make and consume. Clothes, eating habits, hair and way of speaking doesn’t make someone gay. Do you know what does? Actually being homosexual. Which Dean, Kara, Emma, Mike and John are not. Headcanons are fine. But if you have to change every single little thing about a character to enjoy the show. Then you shouldn’t be watching said show.

Collateral damage. Audrey Rose in descendants. Lindsey Lister in Gilmore Girls. Side characters (Lindsey) or antagonists (Audrey) that exist to be a background character in the main characters story. Unfortunately. Many fans latch onto these characters are bleat about how they deserved better. When they didn’t. Especially in Audrey’s case. Lindsey existed purely to show that Dean Forester, that poor poor mistreated boy, wasn’t over Rory. Audrey existed as the stereotypical bitch that the boy leaves for the better option. And when they tried to give her depth. Her still didn’t get wet. I hate Audrey. Always have. Always will. And I don’t care about Lindsey. But they served their purpose. And fans should leave it at that.

So there you go. Four phrases that [tumblr] should learn. If you do. Then you might wind up being ever so slightly calmer than you were before.

#temporal context #periphery demographic #collateral damage #supernatural #anti destiel #arrowverse #supergirl #anti supercorp #once upon a time #anti swan queen #stranger things #anti byler #sherlock bbc #anti johnlock

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