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ultrahpfan5blog · 1 year

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The Flash Season 6 - Restrospective Review

So I finally finished season 6. Two more seasons to go before I catch up. Season 6 is a difficult season to judge because its an incomplete season, with Covid cutting the season short by 3 episodes. So the Mirrorverse arc was left hanging going into season 7. But as a season as a whole, I think there are a fair amount of upsides, particularly in the first half of the season, leading into COIE crossover.

Eric Wallace took over as showrunner starting this season and he obviously made a clear decision to split seasons into multiple arcs. I definitely think its a wise decision because the quality of villains and their ability to sustain a full season was dubious. I actually think the Bloodwork arc benefits greatly as a result of this decision. I don't think anyone considers Bloodwork to be one of the top villains that The Flash has ever had, but he works quite well for an 8 episode arc. It makes for a fun, B Zombie movie type vibe which was definitely different for the show. I honestly do think the first half of this season is excellent. I think they did a decent job showing the parallels between Ramsey and Barry's situations. And I think this half of the seasons pulls some excellent performances from the cast. Certainly, Carlos gets a chance to flex in 'Kiss Kiss Breach Breach', which is a completely Cisco centric episode. 'License to Elongate' is a pretty fun Bond type episode with Ralph and Barry, with Ralph taking lead. And it was actually quite a sweet episode, honoring Barry as a character. Grant has one of his best performances in the 'The Last Temptation of Barry Allen Pt 1'. There is a sublime scene between Grant and Jesse in 'There will be Blood' which really harkens back to why that relationship was so great in the show.

There is only one complaint that I have with the first part of this season, which is that Caitlin gets completely sidelined. The show makes an obvious specific decision to let Frost take the prominent role, which is fine, but given that the first half deals with Barry trying to help prepare all of team Flash for a life after him, I feel an episode with Caitlin, who was such a long time friend, should have happened. Barring that, I honestly find the Bloodwork arc to be a lot of fun. The Zombie apocalypse type finally makes for a pretty enjoyable climax. This half of the season introduces two new characters who went on to be part of the main cast in future seasons. Those two being Allegra and Chester. I know people have mixed opinions on both characters but I liked both of the bat. Allegra is pretty significantly involved throughout the season and becomes a part of team Citizen and Chester pops up in a handful of episodes and becomes more prominent towards the end of the season.

The first half of the season also introduces Nash, whose primary purpose in the first half of the season is to bring about the start of Crisis. COIE was an ambitious crossover and I do applaud the CW for attempting something so big. While I did enjoy COIE, as a Flash fan it was a bit disappointing because Barry is sidelined in at least the first couple of episodes. He becomes more prominent in the last three episodes, but given the Crisis tease was on Flash for years, it is a bit annoying how the focus is shifted away from him when it really should have been a Flash prominent crossover. We do get some of our last Oliver and Barry moments in this crossover, which was great. Its good to know we will get some more in season 9 but those scenes in the crossover are great. There are some characters who are missed during the crossover, like Cisco, who was always a prominent part of the crossovers in the past, but only appears in The Flash episode.

The Mirrorverse/Black Hole arc is the arc which is a bit inconsistent. Its also unfortunately incomplete. There are some good elements and bad elements about this part of the season. Oddly, its a great part of the season for Candice Patton but a poor one for Iris. Candice gets to play a semi-villainous character in playing Iris' mirror duplicate and she does seem to enjoy it, but Iris is shortchanged as a result because she ends up spending the entire back half of the season trapped in the Mirrorverse, pretty much doing nothing. Everything in the Mirrorverse is pretty boring because it is just a rinse and repeat of Iris and Eva having the same conversations. The show also repeats some beats of Barry losing his speed again and again repeating the beats of him not being fast enough to stop villains, which is frustrating as a viewer after having watched several seasons of similar arcs. I do think that there is a set of 4 consecutive episodes that are all pretty strong for different reasons. 'A Girl Named Sue' is a fun introduction to Sue. She and Ralph and have instant chemistry which is a lot of fun. 'Grodd Friend Me' is cool as well, as we get to see speedster Grodd, albeit for a short time, and then 'Death of the Speed Force' sees the welcome and last return of Wally West. It will be nice to see him again in season 9 as this was his last appearance on the show so far. Then we have 'The Exorcism of Nash Wells' which was a cool episode which gave some of the OG's, like Grant, Carlos, and especially Tom, some room to flex and gave some depth to Nash, which was missing till this point. 'Liberation' also has a pretty strong fight scene between Mirror Iris and Barry, which is pretty brutal.

The actual story of team Flash facing off against Black Hole is interesting. Its cool to have them dealing with an organization rather than a single person. Problem is that they narrative purpose gets split because there is Black Hole and there is Eva and her mirror duplicates and Barry gets lost a bit in that muddle because he isn't intrinsically involved with either story. Barry's story in the back half deals a lot with the death of the speed force and the creation of a new one. Because the narrative is split in three different direction, each plot seems too slow. Ralph and Sue were some of the most entertaining parts of the back half, but end up absent for episodes at a time. The multi focus is what makes these arcs less effective. A lot of cast members are absent for episodes at a time. Like I mentioned, Ralph is absent for several episodes. Cisco is absent for several episodes. Joe is absent for a few episodes. You also see some of Eric Wallace's more annoying tendencies, such as sidelining Iris for such a long period of time, starting this annoying recurrence of Cecile feeling everyone's emotions and telling the audience how they feel, and starting promising arcs and ending them abruptly. An example of that is the Mirror duplicate Iris arc. The show starts something promising with Mirror duplicate Iris becoming independent and sentient but it doesn't go anywhere eventually and feels a bit pointless. This becomes a trait that became very prominent in season 7.

The season finale was obviously not designed to be the season finale, but it works ok because it at least ends the Black Hole arc and has a fun sequence with multiple villains vs multiple heroes. It is also obviously evident that Danielle Panabaker's pregnancy probably ended up messing with whatever arc was planned for the character because she is barely present in the back half for obvious reasons.

The cast is all excellent. Like I mentioned, the cast is given a lot of chances to flex. Grant gets some strong episodes and he feels a lot more centered in this season while in season 5, it did feel like he was sometimes not the main character. Candice Patton has fun in a villainous role. Carlos, Danielle P, Jesse are strong. Danielle Nicolet does overdo some scenes but does well overall. Hartley Sawyer was great and its disappointing that he left in the way he did. Its a shame because we never got to see that Ralph and Sue arc come to fruition as a result. Tom Cavanaugh is great as always but Nash Wells is easily the least developed version of Wells. The character never really formed any major connections with other characters on the show. The only connection the character has is with Allegra and even that doesn't get properly explored until very late in the season. He does have a brief reappearance as Thawne, which is always great, though he seems more bloodthirsty then usual. But its always great to see Barry and Thawne face off. Sendhil Ramamurthy gets to have some fun chewing scenery as Ramsey/Bloodwork. Victoria Park as Kamilla gets a more prominent role this season and while I still prefer Gypsy as a romantic interest for Cisco, she is a likable character. Kayla Compton and Brandon McKnight are likable as Allegra and Chester. Efrat Dor is effective as Eva but even she is limited by the fact that she spends majority of her time locked in the mirrorverse. Eric Nenninger as Joseph Carver is fine. Natalie Dreyfuss is charming as Sue Dearborn.

All in all, I think its an enjoyable season. I think it is on part with season 5. I think its reputation got dinged because of the fact that its final episodes had to be shifted into season 7 but its overall a solid season. I rate it a 7/10.

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fancyfade · 2 years

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Nightwing Annuap vol 2 #2 So, it's sort of a triptych. The first part has them in high school. (Ignore the issues with this.) So her origin now has her and Dick being captured by Crazy Quilt (instead of her saving Bruce from Killer Moth) and...a boner joke. Then we get to college and Kory (who shouldn't even be on Earth) pretends he's out because she's jealous? Basically she's Lori Elton. Then we get to The Killing Joke... 1/3

The Killing Joke part is the worst. So, Babs is shot, and everyone's there, except Dick's on Tamaran. (His last mission to Tamaran was during COIE; the aftermath was, um, not pretty.) Then he does show up right after she gets out of the hospital to invite her to his wedding (so, three in-universe years later and she's been Oracle for most of that time, and, you know, after the rape). And he sleeps with her instead. Which, oh yeah, is what inspired her to be Oracle. 2/3

In short, Oracle is no longer about Babs. Oh, she does mention knowing Kory was Dick's first, but that's not how Oracle's abilities work. Unless Dick blogged about it or Gar did. The latter, I can believe. Wolfman then got control of Nightwing and introduced Liu, who is seriously a female Terry Long, hopefully exiling this cursed annual from canon forever. 3/3

oh yeah i read that annual I just didn't know it was by andreyko

it was really not good for anyone's character. it was so unnecessary in every way. I have no clue why anyone thought that was a good idea

i see wolfman was trying to prove he could be equal opportunity creepy

#anon #ask #nightwing 1996 #dc comics #rape mention #barbara gordon

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archidrews · 4 years

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barry: [shares his dead dad story AND recognizes dylan thomas]

jefferson: i have a son now

#this was it. this scene broke me #jefferson pierce #black lightning #barry allen #the flash #jackie watches coie #crisis on infinite earths #coie part 3 #coie spoilers #coie

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rants-at-midnight · 4 years

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CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS (3) THOUGHTS:

Let's start off by saying how this episode was DEFINITELY better than part two (2).

Cisco being the voice of the Fandom and going "clearly I wasn't consulted because that's nonsense", when everyone told him the villain's name is Anti-Monitor? Brilliant. 😂😂

The West-Allen scenes were absolutely beautiful. 😍

"I will always run home to you." 🥺

Barry being the paragon of love? Poetic.

I was really disappointed when Oliver wasn't mentioned as a Paragon but then DCTV decided to give us OLIVER AS SPECTRE AND I'M HERE FOR IT!!! 🙌🏻

Kate and Kara scenes were on point as usual. Those gay vibes are multiplying with every scene. 💯

Earth 90's Flash and Black Lightning were amazing. That flashback though! 😢

(Wasn't Earth-1 Barry supposed to Vanish in the Crisis though? I mean we've literally been set up for this since S1 and then that didn't happen?!)

But let's talk about how "Earth 666- San Francisco" came up on my screen and I shouted so loud that my brother woke up? 😂😂😂

LUCIFERRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gotta be honest, wasn't expecting him there. But HE WAS THE BEST PART OF THE EPISODE.

Lucifer showed up for 2 minutes, flirted with Mia, John and Constantine and then went away. Iconic.

Also, was anyone else getting the salty exes vibes from Lucifer and Constantine? 😂

(However, wasn't Lucifer supposed to be in Hell though?! What's the timeline there? I have questions!)

That Lyla twist? Damn! Also, Pariah finally did something other than standing around being cryptic.

That LEX LUTHOR ENDING. WTFFFFFFFF. I DO NOT ACCEPT THIS. UGHHHHHH. Someone please take away Lex Luthor and give me Superman back. AGHHHHHH.

The multiverse is gone and done for except for our seven paragons. Can't wait to see where they go from here (time travel seems like the only option now, tbh).

And now I will scour the internet for every tiny spoiler I can find and go through theories on a hourly basis until the two part finale next month.

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msbeccieboo · 4 years

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Crisis Part 3 thoughts

Because these eps don’t deserve a full brain dump 😂😂

JOHN THOMAS DIGGLE MY MAN WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN I’VE MISSED YOU SO MUCH 😍😍

Dig straight in there shouting at everyone over Oliver and Lyla, YAAAASSSS! “I wasn’t there when he needed me”😭😭 You’ll be there when he needs you the most, Dig!

Larry is the Paragon of Love? LOVE? *confused face* Paragon of lov(ing) his sister, maybe.

Oliver is not one of the Paragons…nice, he’ll be better!

Does MG have any attention span whatsoever? This episode was like Larry speed-reading through a comic book.

The rando 7th Paragon dude lives in Ivy Town and just wants to be with his wife and baby daughter…please let this be foreshadowing Oliver’s ending somehow!

Destroying Black Lightning’s Earth, outside of his show, just means some of this isn’t sticking

Larry has another hero take the fall on his behalf again…not Paragon behaviour…ISTG Larry!!

Dig, Mia and Constantine teaming up to save Oliver’s soul is everything!!

The Oliver scene was so bloody short! Steve really got a nice break during these last two eps, didn’t he!

Us: expecting a big battle to get Oliver’s soul returned. Dig: “Yo, Oliver come back!”. Oliver: “Oh hi man!” 😂😂

The Quiggle hug, followed by the Mia hug was lovely 😍😍

“Take a hike, Crazy Eyes” I DIED 😂

Oliver didn’t even hesitate to become Spectre, just “Ok, bye Mia!” *Boom! Sparkly eyes!*, which, while absolutely wasteful of a potentially meaningful character moment, was just further proof of Oliver being the ultimate hero in the multiverse.

Oh, b-t-dubs..he now is immortal and has more powers than any of the other heroes put together 😏😏 Which, while pretty meaningless and unnecessary for us actual Oliver fans, is a massive fuck you to the whiney naysayers who've said for years that Oliver isn’t a real hero cos he has no superpowers. Powers that I still fully expect him to give up by the end of the show. Your leads could never.

Evil!Lyla serving everyone’s arses on a plate was epic (evil and bad and wrong etc, but still epic!) Then killing the Monitor! Time for Oliver to get these so-called heroes in line!

That ending 😬😬🙈🙈

So everyone on every Earth, save for the handful of Paragons, are dead, every world has gone, and it’s gonna stay that way? Of course not! They still have 27228 CW hero shows with full seasons to fill!

Ending on that ‘cliffhanger’ was just ridiculous! There was no shock value, as it’s so absurd, because it’s so clearly not going to play out that way in the end. Therefore what is the point? They could have angsted us up real good over the xmas hiatus, but I probably won’t even give it a second thought now.

The ending (and the whole episode, really) was completely devoid of heart...they didn’t even try to put any emotion in there when everyone ‘died’, and any other attempt at an emotional moment elsewhere in the episode was so rushed and interspersed with the next random arm of the story, that it never really hit. (And this is coming from a massive crier 😂😂)

We get Oliver in a suit in one of the next eps!! Who says Spectres can’t be snappy dressers too 😂

#Arrow #Crisis on Infinite Earths #Arrow spoilers #Oliver Queen #Mia Smoak #John Diggle #COIE part 3 #beccie's brain

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super-gayy · 4 years

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soooo who’s gonna write a Lucifer x Constantine fanfic ?????

#crisis on infinite earths #lucifer #tom ellis #the flash #coie part 3 #supergirl #arrowverse #arrow

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llamakween · 4 years

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Look at how excited she is

#coie #crisis on infinite earths #supergirl #batwoman #the flash #arrow #part 3 #part 4 #legends #legends of tomorrow #black lightning #kara danvers #kate kane #superbat #batgirl #my heart #omg #love her so much

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olicitybishop-clairmont · 4 years

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John Diggle reminds Lucifer Morningstar of his brother Amenadiel.

Luci said it himself.

#crisis on infinite earths #crisis on infinite earths spoilers #crisis on infinite earths part 3 #coie liveblog #coie lb #dctv #dctv crossover #arrow #supergirl #batwoman #dc legends of tomorrow #black lightning #smallville #the flash #the flash spoilers #the flash 6x09 #lucifer #lucifer fox

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typicaltimmeh · 4 years

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Best Moments of Part 3:

John having a very bad day, what with his brother Oliver dead and wife Lyla missing.

Lucifer. Fricking. Morningstar. His universe is officially a canon of the Arrowverse (albeit on an alternate Earth from Earth-1). Probably not involved with the heroes again, but still... nice.

Earth-90 Flash makes a comeback, and a callout to his love-interest Tina.

Vibe is back (albeit forced).

Oliver’s purgatory is Lian Yu. Because of course it is. And Oliver resigning to becoming The Spectre to help the multiverse.

Barry Allen of Earth-90 temporarily taking Barry of Earth-1s speed, ensuring a Flash died in Crisis. And Barry having to watch a lookalike of his father die.

Lyla being possessed by the Anti-Monitor and killing The Monitor

Pariah moving his idle ass, sending the 7 Paragons to the Vanishing Point.

B-Heroes and protagonists getting absorbed by an anti-matter wave that came outta nowhere.

Lex Luthor lazily writing his name into the book of destiny, like some child trying to add rules to a contest. And saving his ass.

The major question I have: If Earth-90 Barry helped destroy the anti-matter wave generator, how did this new one come about?

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superherocaps · 4 years

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#crisis on infinite earths #coie #coie 3 #part three #part 3 #supergirl #kara danvers #kara zor el #melissa benoist

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bookolicitynessa · 4 years

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Oliver stopped as soon as he saw John and Mia. My brotp and my favourite father and daughter relationship on TV lives!

#arrow #queen family #brotp #oliggle #coie lb #crisis on infinite earths #part 3

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ultrahpfan5blog · 1 year

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The Flash Season 5 - Retrospective Review

Well, I finally made it to the Eric Wallace era in my rewatch. The Flash season 5 is in the rearview, but there are still 3 seasons left in the rewatch. I probably won't be caught up until like a month into the new season. In any case, season 5 rewatch was interesting. To me, season 5 is filled with a lot of faults. There are issues with the character arcs with almost every arc. In spite of that though, I quite enjoyed season 5 as a whole. Its definitely a significant uptick from season 4 because it is at least never boring to me.

I think what season 5 got right was tone. The Flash traditionally has always been the strongest when leaning into emotions. Season 3 struggled a bit with the doom and gloom tone, and season 4 especially struggled with the oscillating tone with trying to humorous and then also having some pretty dark elements. Season 5 gets the balance right, being closer to what seasons 1 and 2 were in tone. And a big part of that was the refocus on bonds between family, blood or otherwise. This season felt like the entire Flash family was very much united and at ease with each throughout the season. Obviously the center of the show was the introduction to Nora and her relationships with both Barry and Iris. The WestAllen family dynamic is one of the strongest aspects of the season. It isn't without its issues from a writing POV, but it certainly gives a lot of emotional drama and there are some good arcs for each of the characters and their relationships. Even the side characters have emotional arcs. Caitlin/KF also has a refocus on her family, with both her mother and her father coming back into the mix. Ralph feels more integrated into the team Flash dynamic as compared to season 4, Joe and Cecile have an arc of becoming a working couple together, and Cisco too has a self reflective arc about what he wants with life and about finding love. These arcs largely play to casts strengths and so they are more emotionally involving then they might otherwise be. Even the Cicada storyline is a family based storyline and there is a bit of a mirror reflection between Orlin and Grace with Barry and Nora. I also think the new Wells worked fairly well as he had his own active storyline where he investigated Nora and discovered the Thawne secret.

I also think the humor is a lot more consistent this season than it was in season 4. In season 4, it felt like the cast and writers were overdoing due to the criticisms of season 3 being too dark. Season 5 feels like the humor and heart were more smartly balanced with emotion. Certainly the Elseworlds crossover was one of the funniest crossovers because it really utilized the comedic chops of Grant, Melissa, and Stephen quite well. There are some pretty strong episodes. The show celebrated its 100th episode in this season with 'The Past is Prologue' which was an excellent episode apart from the ending result of the Cicada fight. The scenes with Barry, Thawne, and Nora are excellently acted and play a key role in the finale of the season. It was actually pretty clever. The Time loop episode 'Cause and XS' was also pretty good. The show embraces its goofy roots with 'King Shark vs. Gorrilla Grodd' which was a blast, with surprisingly decent effects for a show of its budget. I feel the finale was quite strong and emotionally moving, with a nice tease for COIE. There aren't any episodes that I particularly disliked this season, despite my issues with certain character arcs.

There are definitely some big issues with the season and the various character arcs. Starting with Nora, who has the most major character arc. While the character is overall likeable, there is an inconsistency in how she is portrayed. While she is a late 20's adult, the characterization often feels like that of someone in their late teens, early 20's. That is sometimes a little grating. She is also shown to be impossibly naive at times. Iris benefits greatly from having moved out of team Flash leader role, even though she is nominally called that a few times. But this season does feel like Barry is back in the role of leader of team Flash as he should be. Its good to see Iris being more of a journalist and establishing the CCC. However, she does have moments towards the end of the season where she again throws Barry leaving her to go into the speed force in his face and not understanding Barry's distrust for Thawne, which makes her seem a bit callous. Cisco's self reflection arc, although well acted, feels out of character for him. I didn't really buy him deciding to let go of his powers because the show didn't really convince me, in this season or the next couple, that he wanted to let go of the team Flash life. I think this story arc was partially because Carlos was thinking of leaving so they made this as a contingency plan but it didn't really work. I liked seeing Caitlin's KF origins gets explored with the re-emergence of Thomas/Icicle but what should have been a multi season arc is wrapped up in 2 episodes. And there is a tease for Caitlin's mother which never panned out to anything. Sherloque has this random romance with Renee Adler which is extremely throwaway. The character also didn't quite have the bonds with team Flash that previous Wells' did. The show struggled at times on what to do with Ralph. I think Sherloque filled the shoes of what Ralph may have otherwise been doing. So it does feel like he is in the background for large parts of the season. He is involved in the beginning, when investigating the identity of Cicada, and towards the end, when he figures out the connection between Thawne and the dagger. In between there are episodes like 'Goldfaced' where he is prominent but there aren't too many of those. Then the show also got into this bad habit of having Cecile constantly promoting realizations due to her abilities. It gets a bit annoying. Joe is absent for about half the season due to Jesse's back injury and he is missed. Barry's character is largely consistent and more matured this season. He does feel like a dad. There are times where it does feel like he cedes the lead character role to Nora this season.

I think the biggest issue with this season though is Cicada. On paper and in theory, a meta human serial killer is a great idea. It makes perfect sense to flip the threat. The idea of Cicada being an uncle who is going after metas due to what happened to his niece is also a good idea. However, the show unfortunately didn't execute the character well. For one thing, the dagger becomes an OP device and it renders team Flash consistently useless against Cicada, barring KF. So again there is a sense of repetition of Cicada constantly beating them and getting away. The show oversells the character by saying that none of the heroes across the multiverse could stop Cicada, which became quite silly given that the dagger is only supposed to work on dark matter. Then there is a Cicada II/Grace, who is not given any depth at all because she really only turns up for the last third of the season. Unfortunately, both Chris Klein as Cicada/Orlin and Sarah Carter as adult Grace/Cicada II, ham it up way too much. The background villain, Thawne, ends up being more compelling, but that is not surprising given that Thawne has been the best villain in the show's history so far.

But overall, despite my criticisms, I think the season overall retains a pretty strong emotional core and at the center of that is Jessica Parker Kennedy, who was just inspired casting to play Barry and Iris' daughter. We saw teases of her in the previous season, but here she is an absolute delight and she looks so much like what Grant and Candice's daughter would look like. Its quite funny to think that she's older to both of them but she definitely doesn't come off that way in the show. Grant and Candice both get to play more matured and emotional roles as parents this season and the WestAllen family dynamic is key to the success of the season. As always, Carlos, Danielle Panabaker, Hartley, and Jesse bring a lot of heart and humor to the table. Tom Cavanaugh now delivers his fourth iteration of Wells, and despite an unnecessary french accent, is great as always and his is at ease when playing Thawne. Its his signature role. Danielle Nicolet blends into the team and is likable. Overall, season 5 is like a 7/10.

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incarnateirony · 2 years

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Let's talk some more realistic expectations on "But can Jensen be Batman in GK?" because. Technically. Everybody's right. But everybody's wrong.

I've been telling people for a few weeks at this point, on twitter, not to hang their hat on it. To clown, because it's possible, but recognize there's a honky red nose involved.

DC canon is. Sloppy. Like, I love it. But it's a mess. This is my mess. Kind of like the drawer I shove all my random shit in. I love that shit. But god damn, is it a mess.

So for example. Titanverse is not the same as all HBO verses. the Cartoons can be assigned to miscellaneous continuities depending which one you're talking about when. Arrowverse is its own thing. Gotham Knights, while airing on the CW, is not actually Arrowverse, despite also being Berlanti.

Do you already have a headache? Good! It's gonna get worse.

See, back when Batwoman was first pitched at the CW, Pedowitz was like, no, we have no intention of actively including Batman in Batwoman. The TLDR is because The Batman was in development at the time, and it was considered a conflict of interest. Because, well, a major Batman Centric IP was being delivered. There's some caveats of Batman, Actually* in Arrowverse below but they're. spotty.

This is similar to why people generally assume Jason being held back from Gotham Knights is indicative of a Red Hood project for Jensen. Or back how Arrowverse killed off all the Suicide Squad characters back when SS was being developed.

Basically, once someone licks an idea for it to be a titular character in a major project, that character is suddenly banished from other universes while the project is in development and generally relevant.

At the same time, Batman did kind of. Pop up. In other ways in Arrowverse. Someone pretending to be him. His suits, his legacies. Bruce namedropped, on a magazine cover. Like he's there. But wiggling out active use was just. A mess.

On the other hand, even before Superman & Lois became a thing on CW, Superman cropped up in Arrowverse with permission. Why? because the major stuff had passed through Nov 2017 into early 2018 for the hype to not kick Justice League in the dick.

In fact, Crisis on Infinite Earths 2, 3, 4, 5 (2019) and Elseworlds Part 1 (2018) literally just. used him. Why okay then? Because the last big Batman movie had aired in 2017. In 2019 Superman's only movie bit was a cameo at the end by a stunt dude in a blink or you'll miss it thing, and then sure this year there was the director's cut of justice league, but that's. Back to just the 2017 project. Same movie, put back out, director's cut.

So suddenly, it was okay for CW to use Superman, as a character, once there weren't actual titular projects around him and, once he really got pulled into the TV verse, ironically the movie verse had to be a lot more reserved in how they used him. Before that, he had "unseen" roles in Supergirl, or mentions. A hallucination event. And a few VERY limited moments in season 2 of supergirl like. Yes he showed up but I can promise you they had to wrestle for that right and ensure how limited they'd keep his actual presence -- I believe it was 4 eps in late 2016/early 2017. From there. Mentions and pictures through the next two seasons. Then the next year was when CoIE went down, a few flashbacks before that. The game was on again where they could use it. By that 2019 period.

Justice League itself was also touchy to freeze all use of Superman on because it was first announced in 2007. TEN YEARS before it. Script and development purgatory hit again and again. Delays, options, circular treatment, reannouncements in 2014, and round and round and round we went. It got picked up for pre prod early 2016, and finally got to actually. like. filming second quarter of 2016. And by then Supergirl was like. Already on track for itself. But then Superman was yeeted back into oblivion on CW for a few years until Justice League had been milked of its worth, then boom. Crisis on Infinite Earths. Superman & Lois. ANd so on. Releasing the Snyder cut is just wringing extra money out of the same successful release, so it's not really a conflict.

This is all a very long example of "How and when can a product make use of a major DC character".

So while there's a theoretic Red Hood project, there's a freeze on use of Jason Todd to avoid conflicts of interest. But that freeze won't be eternal, once that project runs its course.

Animated bits, for example, run in a different time period. Even while The Batman was in development, Batman was ALL OVER in cartoons from 2017 to current. Like. Justice League, DC Super Heroes, the Lego ones, the weird scooby doo one, teen titans go. Death of Superman (to further fuck your heads up with the superman fuckery above), Reign of the supermen, another Justice League one. The weird Batman vs TMNT. Red Son. More justice League. Injustice. Right now the Super Pets thing has Keanu Reeves voice batman. because why not

And that doesn't even account for shit like. The web series or truly bizarre one offs like the general lego movies, or the batmobile in Ready Player One. Or the Space Jam cameo???????

So LIKE???

CAN Batman show up in Gotham? ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE.

The likelihood is increased right now with ZERO titular Batman works in development. There's the announced Penguin Spinoff. There's the GCPD one. There's whatever Red Hood shit Jensen's sitting on. But Batman, 100%, could have like. A death scene. Or flashbacks. Or recordings left behind. Or other shit like that as cameos that cement him into the world better.

That's not to say "LET'S ALL BET ON JENSEN GETTING A BATMAN CAMEO", again. But while the licensing and rights are COMPLICATED, it's not a hard no. It's not the same universe as Arrowverse. It's not any of that. It's a world of its own, being rendered when there's no Titular live action Batman pieces in development, in which case it's comparably easy to make use of, as opposed to them having to try to slapfight for Suicide Squad characters when there's a movie for it coming out. Batman already coming like. Pre-installed Dead even has a "limited use" argument they could pull, as in, like, not even actively engaging this universe as much as there as a symbol, similar to the random pics of Superman/Clark Kent spewed around Supergirl. Or the hallucinations. And, yes, a few episodes he did in fact show up in, before they even made their own Superman show.

Can it happen? Yes. Hang your hat on it? No. Are people MASSIVELY oversimplifying this in an attempt to give a resolute answer or a false clarity? Absolutely.

Hell this already happened

that's about it. but it happened. it was just a stunt guy too so they don't have a real actor for him

the batman that showed up in Arrowverse wasn't Batman, beyond this shit. It was Hush pretending to be Batman. So I mean. Or the Kevin Conroy one from CoiI?

even if you ascribe Christie or Conroy as the Bruce Wayne face in Arrowverse. Gotham Knights isn't arrowverse. so we go back to headhurty again. because then we're back to "period they were allowed to use Superman a little they got to use Bruce A Little but then Batman got his own movie so he disappeared again but they got to keep using Superman, basically. but by the time GK is airing or Batwoman wrapping they can probably use batman again that's more than a hazy flashback with no real actor or Alternate Douche Wayne."

#gotham knights

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lonestarfangirl2014 · 3 years

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LONESTARS GUIDE TO THE WAYNES AND KANES OF GOTHAM CITY PART ONE REDUX

BRUCE WAYNES UNCLES AND AUNTS(Including by marriage) EDITION

WAYNES

“Waynes never stay down. We RISE”

The Wayne's are one of the so called first families of Gotham

also known as the Founding Families of Gotham or more simply, the Five Families are the five families affiliated with the creation of Gotham as a city.

AGATHA WAYNE

First appearance: Batman issue 89 February 1955

Agatha has been discribed as Thomas Wayne frail elder sister. She occasionally visits Bruce when he’s a adult. On Earth Two where she originally debuted it’s been said that she helped out the next person on this list with young Bruce whenever she could.

It could be possible that either Agatha or the next person on our list was the one to inherit the families gotham based ancestral home based on earth two/Golden age Bruce buying a mansion to live in shortly before becoming Batman

Agatha has a counterpart on new earth/post COIE who is said to be the only sibling of Thomas Wayne(still as a older sister.).

It is unknown if she has ever had kids. On Earth Two there is evidence that Bruce has at least one possibly 1st cousin on his fathers side who I will talk about in another post I’m planning on making about Bruce’s cousins.

PHILIP WAYNE (Not to be confused with Martha’s brother of the same first name whose farther down this list)

First Earth-One appearance: Batman issue 208 February 1969

Originally introduced in the earth-one era of comics it is later revealed that a Philip Wayne did exist on the earlier earth-two in Secret Origins Vol 2 #6 (September, 1986)

On both Earth-One and Earth-Two Philip Wayne was the one who took young Bruce in after he was orphaned.

It is unknown who is older between him and Thomas but based on the appearance of Earth-One Philip(white hair and mustache) I would say that Philip was the older one at least on that earth where both he and Thomas took charge of the family business AKA Wayne Enterprise.

On Earth-Two Thomas was the one to inherit the family fortune suggesting that he was the eldest of the two Wayne sons on that Earth. Earth-Two Philip is only seen once and it’s only a silhouette of him.

It is unknown if he has ever had kids. On Both Earth-Two as well as as Earth-One there is evidence that Bruce has at least one possible paternal 1st cousin on each. Both of them I will talk about in another post I’m planning on making about Bruce’s cousins.

Vanderveer Wayne SR.

first appearance: Powerless episode 3

For the sake of this post I will say a Fourth Wayne sibling to my knowledge has never appeared in the comics HOWEVER a paternal Uncle Of Bruce was introduced in the short lived TV show Powerless as Vanderveer Wayne SR.

Vanderveer Wayne, Sr. was the original boss of Wayne Security, before passing the job to his son Vanderveer Wayne Jr and taking a position on the board of directors of Wayne Enterprise.

Patricia Wayne

First Appearance: Pennyworth episode One

The elder sister of Thomas Wayne. She has been described and shown to be a typical rich party girl who according to Thomas apparently likes to cause scandals that drag the Wayne name through the mud. The foolish sibling to Thomas responsible sibling. They bicker and she calls him names but like any typical siblings they still love eachother.

ON PRIME EARTH/NEW 52 it is said that Thomas Wayne was a only child. As of may 4 2021 none of the other Wayne siblings has so far made a appearance in Any Comics set on Prime earth. But hey screw Canon right?

KANES

“We Stand TOGETHER”

The Kane family was cited as being so rich that the only parts of Gotham that were not owned by them were those owned by the Wayne Family.

NATHAN KANE

First mentioned in Batman Incorporated(don’t quote me on that) taking place on New Earth And is confirmed to exist on Prime Earth as well.

Not much is known about Nathan. We don’t even have a proper picture of him. What we do know is that he is the eldest son(Batman Incorporated vol 1 #4)and he was the one who inherited both the family fortune as well as the family Crest Hill Estate after family Patriarch and Matriarch Roderick and Elizabeth/Elisabeth(seen it spelt both ways) both died. He is called the golden scion of the family.

On New Earth He married the original Batwoman aka Katherine Webb-Kane the year Batman became active in Gotham. He was apparently 40 when he started dating 25 year old Kathy Webb-Kane, 43 when he finally married(the year Batman age 25 debuted in Gotham) and 47 when he died.

Kathy Webb-Kane/ Katrina “Luka” Netz.

First Earth-One appearance: Detective Comics #233 (July, 1956)

First Earth-Two Appearance: The Brave and the Bold #182 (January, 1982)

First New Earth Appearance:Batman #678 (August, 2008)

First Prime Earth Appearance:Batman Incorporated Vol 2 #10 (June, 2013

The Original Batwoman!

Strap in because this is a long one.

On Earth-One her history is as follows: Kathy Kane was a wealthy heiress who gained great acrobatic skills during her career as a circus trapeze artist and stunt cyclist. Becoming infatuated with the Batman, she fashioned herself a costume and secret hide-out and started operating as Batwoman. At first she upstaged Batman and his sidekick Robin in capturing crooks. However, Batman eventually learned her true identity and tracked her to her secret cave hide-out. Showing her how easily it was for him to learn her identity, Batman pointed out that criminals could probably do it just as easily and tried to convince her to drop out of crime fighting. Disobeying Batman's advice, she tried to capture mobster Curt Briggs. During this caper, Batman went missing and Briggs, struck with amnesia, left thinking he was Batman. Ultimately the real Batman reappeared, and Biggs was turned over to the police. Afterwards, Batwoman went back to retirement. However, Kathy Kane became tired of the dull life of a rich heiress and came out of retirement once more in order to recapture a criminal named Elton Cragg. It was during this case that Batwoman gained super-powers and after her heroic deeds, she convinced Batman to let her continue her crime-fighting career. Ironically, around this time, Kathy started dating Bruce Wayne and she started to fall in love with Batman, unaware that they were the same person.

When Bruce Wayne was framed for a crime he didn't commit, Batwoman teamed-up with Robin in order to clear Batman's name. During an undercover mission, Batwoman was captured by a criminal leader and was rescued by the Dynamic Duo. When both Batwoman and reporter Vicki Vale were nominated Gotham City's "Woman of the Year", both tried to upstage each other to get the lead in the contest. With the help of Batman and Robin, both Vicki and Batwoman captured Moose Molloy's gang and both were crowned woman of the year. When Batman and Robin were trapped in a cave in, Ace the Bat-Hound guided Batwoman to help free them and capture the criminal Dr. Midas. Batwoman next helped the Dynamic Duo capture Firefly, aided them in preventing Lex Luthor from atomizing Superman, and helped them capture the Spinner. Batwoman later met with Bat-Mite and working together, they captured some crooks to save the Dynamic Duo.After this adventure, Bat-Mite became infatuated with Batwoman and tried to become her sidekick, creating chaos for everyone until he realized his mistake and left. When trying to solve the mystery of who murdered Professor Lacy after his discovery of a living caveman, Batwoman was saved by the caveman who sacrificed himself to save her from Lacy's killer: Harbin, Lacy's assistant. When Kathy Kane purchased a mystical belt, she becames a target of the criminal Star-Man. The belt sucked Batwoman's life energy from her body and she was saved by Batman and Robin, who arrived in time to stop Star-Man.

When Kathy's niece Betty Kane came to visit her, the young girl learned of her aunt's double identity. Kathy agreed to train Betty to be her sidekick, thinking that the young girl would eventually lose interest. However, to her surprise, Betty proved capable and became Batwoman's sidekick Bat-Girl. On their first mission, the two women helped Batman and Robin defeat King Cobra and his gang.Batwoman then became a victim of Luthor's experiments, who manipulated Kathy and gave her super-powers to fight her allies. After a long struggle, Superman managed to break Lex's control over Kathy and she returned to normal.When Batman and Robin were briefly transformed into alien creatures, Batwoman was one of the few who actually believed they were the real Dynamic Duo, until they were restored to normal.She later helped Batman and Robin capture the "Rockets" Rogan Gang. Later, after Batman and Batwoman were captured by the Moth, they were rescued by Bat-Girl and Robin. Later, Kathy went on a date with Bruce Wayne to an amusement park that was previously the location where the Justice League of America recently had a battle.As Batwoman, Kathy joined Batman on a trip to Washington D.C. to testify to the Senate Committee, leaving their young sidekicks to defend Gotham City in their absence.She next aided Batman and Robin in capturing the criminal known as the Vulcan.

Kathy's romances with Bruce Wayne and Batman became rocky, first during a period where Bruce Wayne was briefly transformed into a child, he made it appear that he's seeing another woman in order to keep Kathy away,and later when Batman, while under the effect of a love potion, fell in love with a woman named Elsie.Kathys romance woes became more complicate when Alpha, the Experimental Man fell in love with her, until the artificial man sacrificed himself to save her from falling off a cliff.

When helping Batman and Robin solve a murder during Mardis Gras, she got into a feud with Vicki Vale over who is the right person for Batman, forming the first of many competitions for Batman's affections.She later helped Batman capture Catman.

When she and Batman were briefly transported to another dimension by invaders from that world, their mortality was in question unless they were freed. During this period, Batwoman managed to get Batman to warm up and admit some of his feelings toward her before they were rescued by Robin and Bat-Girl.

Batwoman's feud with Vicki Vale heat up again when both women tried to determine if Mirror Man's assertions that Bruce Wayne was really Batman were true. When Batman scolded Batwoman for getting in the way of his attempts to capture Catman, she faked her intentions to join the criminal as Cat-Woman, until Catman seemingly died in the battle.Batwoman and Bat-Girl later helped the Dynamic Duo end a feud between the Joker and Clayface,and helped Batman and Robin capture the Terrible Trio

Once more suspecting that Batman and Bruce Wayne are the same man, Kathy Kane was convinced otherwise when Superman posed as Batman. However the plan went awry when a bomb goes off seemingly killing "Batman" and necessitating Superman to pose as the ghost of Batman for a time.

When Batman was briefly transformed into a gigantic creature, Batwoman teamed-up with Robin and Ace the Bat-Hound to track down the crooks that have the cure. After this, Catman reappeared and discovered his costume had mystical properties that gave him nine-lives, allowing him to continue on his crime spree. With her Cat-Woman costume, Batwoman helped Batman and Robin capture him.

Following this adventure, Batwoman went into retirement and disappear from Batman's life almost entirely. She become the owner of a circus, but often longed to return to her former crime fighting career.

Batwoman came out of retirement to aid Batgirl(Barbara Gordon)against Killer Moth and the Cavalier, but her return was never intended to be permanent.Kathy Kane was then present at a surprise party for Bruce Wayne at Wayne Manor.When Batwoman was later disintegrated into nothingness on Barbara Gordon's doorstep, Batgirl and Robin teamed-up to find the cure and restore Batwoman to her normal form. Shortly after this, Batwoman met the Huntress from Earth-Two and aided her in capturing Catwoman, Poison Ivy and Madame Zodiac. When the Freedom Fighters of Earth-X searched for a group of criminals known as the Warmakers, their search led them to the carnival owned by Kathy Kane. Kathy, as Batwoman, aided the Freedom Fighters and Batgirl in defeating the Warmakers. In her last recorded adventure, Kathy Kane was murdered by the League of Assassins who were being manipulated by Ra's al Ghul. Her death was eventually avenged by Batman.

Katherine Kane was also known as Batwoman in the Earth-Two timeline. Her history and career are said to reflect that of her Earth-One counterpart, except for that version's untimely death. When Kathy adopted the role of Batwoman, Batman wanted her to retire from the role for fear that she would be hurt in her costumed exploits. Kane would continue to operate in her costumed identity until she learned that Batman had become deeply romantically interested in someone in his unmasked identity. While Wayne never revealed his identity to her, or explicitly told her of his private life, she said she knew of his change in his attitude to her and assumed as such. She largely retired from her costumed role soon after this. Years later, she learned that Wayne was the original Batman when his costume identity was revealed to the general public after his own demise. Not long after this, Kane resumed her costumed identity when she learned of the presence of a "new" Batman. When she found him, Kathy learned that this Batman belonged in the alternate timeline of Earth-One, but the emotional shock of seeing Batman alive was still great. However, Kathy realized that he was not the love of her life reborn, but was a completely new person.

On New Earth her history is as follows

By age 25, Kathy Webb was an underground film director, a poet, and something of a wild child. But when she met Nathan Kane(who we already established as being a brother to Martha Wayne) , he bought her a circus, and she fell head-over-heels in love with him. They were together for seven years and married for four of those same years(thus making her a aunt by marriage to Bruce,Kate, Beth, And Bette) before he died of a stroke. After this, she was approached by a secret organization called Spyral to find out Batman's secret identity. Assessing the information on the Caped Crusader, she decided the best approach was to make him chase her. To that end, she brushed up on detective skills, martial arts and motor-biking, got a costume and started calling herself Batwoman. Her plan worked, and within a few months they were an item. However, Batman was careful not to give her his secret identity, and in fact worked out hers first. This, coupled with her feelings for Batman, lead her to try and break off ties with Spyral. However, her employer, the mysterious Agent-Zero, turned the tables on her, forcing her to break off on both sides, which she did. She was believed to be killed by the Bronze Tiger on behalf of the League of Assassins. The second Batwoman Kate Kane(who like Her cousins Bruce and Bette is Kathy’s relative by way of marriage) investigated the murder, but could not find anything. That was because she was never killed; after a staged death, she worked behind the scenes with Spyral to stop Leviathan. She eventually succeeded in shooting Talia al Ghul during her final standoff with Batman, before claiming that she would not be meeting Batman again, leaving to continue leading Spyral.

On Prime Earth she is Katrina "Luka" Netz one of Spyral's oldest members and the daughter of the former Director of Spyral Herr Netz. Kathy presumably being a alias that she used. Based on what I read in the comics I believe her role as Batwoman is still be canon due to nightwing recognizing her voice at one point and if not then at least her marriage to Nathan Kane is still canon.

PHILIP KANE

First appearance: Batman vol 2 issue 21 August 2013

Introduced during Zero Year(the volume he’s introduced in isn’t in the hardback version however) on Prime Earth Philip Kane ran Wayne Enterprise in Bruce’s absence. While Bruce was traveling the world training, Philip held down the business with his adviser Edward Nygma(we all know how well that turned out)

He had studied to be a geologist as a younger man, he was on a Expedition in northern Mexico when his father Roderick learned that he was dying and had came to get Philip to take him back home. Philip and his father fought because he didn’t want to go. Their fighting resulted in Philip splitting his head open which resulted in him getting a metal plate in his head.

He had given up that dream to take up the responsibility of helping to run the family business. During the Time that Bruce was abroad Philip managed to in his own words “Finally Merged the families” with both families companies(Kane Materials/Kane indrustries, Wayne Industry)seemingly merging into Wayne Enterprise.

Philip was the one who had Bruce Wayne declared legally dead which Bruce originally didn’t want to reverse. Philip Kane was also the one who was able to mostly track where Bruce was during his training. Not even Alfred knew where he was.

Philip was unfortunately blackmailed like many other citizens of Gotham by Red Hood One into joining the Red Hood gang. Being branded “Red Hood 347”, Philip did the bidding of the gang leader until Kane turned. During Batman’s assault on Red Hood One at the Ace chemical processing plant(which ironically on new earth used to belong to the Kane family as Kane Chemicals before being sold and the company Renamed Ace Chemicals )Philip gave his life to distract the Red Hood while the villain was going to kill Batman.

Trivia:Philip Kane was the one who originally own the Giant Penny whose forging he had overseen himself.

THE UNSEEN UNNAMED PARENTS OF MARY ELIZABETH(Bette) KANE

No names or appearances have ever been given for these two.

Bette’s mom was mentioned in one issue of Batwoman and that was it. Seriously it was one where it's implied she already gave up on her daughter surviving her injuries and so she was off panel implied to be talking to the doctors about donating bettes organs or something when Jacob kane was rambling besides a comatose bette. Yeah it was implied that they moved out to the west coast and lived in California because I believe that's where bette grew up in most continuities.

Next up is one every one who kept up with Bat related related comics since 2011 should be very familiar with

JACOB KANE

First New Earth Appearance: 52 #7 (August, 2006)(in a photograph alongside his second wife)/Detective Comics issue 854 August 2009

First Prime Earth Appearance: Batwoman Vol 2 #0 (November, 2012)

A lifelong soldier, Jacob had been a field officer with USSOCOM for most of his career, leading numerous tactical operations across the globe

He and his first wife Gabi are parents to twins Beth and Kate Kane

Jacob has earned the following military awards: the Army Achievement Medal, the Kosovo Campaign Medal, the Afghanistan Campaign Medal, the Iraq Campaign Medal, the Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal, the Global War on Terrorism Service Medal, the NATO Medal for Kosovo, the Kuwait Liberation Medal, the Presidential Unit Citation, the Meritorious Unit Commendation, and an Army Aviator Badge. Jacob has worked extensively with military intelligence services.

The Kanes often moved due to the nature of Jacob and Gabi’s work. Jacob was frequently away from home, since his duties included intervention in various international military crises.

They eventually moved to Brussels in Belgium, since the parents were now serving at NATO. However, the family was soon torn apart due to a terrorist attack. Gabi took her daughters out to celebrate their twelfth birthday, and they were kidnapped by heavily armed men. Military intelligence eventually located the hostages, and Jacob was put in charge of the tactical unit sent to rescue them. However, they were too late, as his wife had been executed and his daughter Elizabeth was believed to be dead. He rescued Kate himself, but she was traumatized by the sight of her dead mother and sister.

Colonel Kane plays an important role in his daughter’s Batwoman operations. He provides her a one-man command, control, and communications center. They stay in constant radio link, with the elder Kane being able to run searches, provide advice, and generally work in the background using his considerable knowledge, contacts and experience. Colonel Kane primarily uses his connections and his intelligence-gathering and management skills. He has access to numerous databases that are normally only accessible to military and law enforcement personnel to provide intel to his daughter.

Jacob is the next kane sibling most people would know about in part thanks to both his comic appearances In multiple bat comics as well as his appearance on the arrowverse batwoman tv show.

Gabrielle Kane(knee Goldstein in the arrowverse)

First New Earth Appearance: Detective Comics 855 September 2009

First Prime Earth Appearance: Batwoman volume 2 issue 27 March 2014

Captain Gabi Kane is the mother of Kate Kane (who later became Batwoman) and her identical twin Beth Kane. A member of the US Army’s 525th Battlefield Surveillance Brigade, she married another soldier, Jacob Kane. Both Kanes worked extensively with military intelligence services, and often moved as a result, even after their children were born. On Prime Earth When her sister-in-law Martha died she went to the funeral with both her husband and Kids. She reminded her husband that not all of Martha was dead(referring to Bruce) Eventually, the Kanes moved to Brussels, Belgium, since the parents were now serving at NATO. The family, however, was torn apart due to a terrorist attack. As Gabi was taking her daughters for their 12th birthday, they were kidnapped by heavily armed men. Military intelligence eventually located the hostages, and Jacob was put in charge of the tactical unit sent to rescue them. However, they were too late, as Gabi had been executed. Jacob rescued Kate himself, but she was traumatized by the sight of her dead mother and her supposedly dead sister.

TRIVIA: Gabi had a tattoo of the Special Forces arrowhead insignia on her right bicep; her daughter Kate later copied this.

Catherine Hamilton-Kane

First New Earth appearance: 52 #7 (August, 2006)(in a photograph alongside her husband)/Detective Comics Vol 1 #856 October, 2009

First Prime Earth Appearance: Batwoman Vol 2 #0 (November, 2012)

Heiress to the Hamilton arms fortune(called Hamilton dynamics in the batwoman tv show), and second wife of Jacob Kane.

Cathy is a jet-setter and socialite involved in politics.The Hamilton fortune was built upon guns. Catherine family owned the enormously successful Hamilton company, which apparently became a household name during the days of the Old West Firearms. Appears to care greatly for her niece by marriage(one can assume she might feel the same for Bruce if and when she finds out he’s Batman) if the way she reacted to finding out about Bette being a vilgilante in the comics is any indication.

#dc comics #batman #batfamily #kane family #wayne family #agatha wayne #philip wayne #van wayne #Patricia wayne #philip kane #jacob kane #kathy kane #Katherine Hamilton #gabi kane #waynes and kanes #info #bat lore

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