#and lots of queer media seems to be made with straight people in mind (at least as a considerable portion of the audience)

[fitzrove]

I think I'm struggling creatively because as time goes on I find less and less motivation to write (and read, tbh!) stuff that's

good wholesome queer representation

escapist everything-gets-better fantasy ("because life is hard enough why would you write about miserable things")

palatable to people who disagree with me

And obviously I'm nowhere near finishing even a single original thing yet ahdfhajf but I've been looking at publishing videos that people who have experience in the industry have made and. Man no wonder that so much milquetoast stuff gets put out nowadays

#not to be a hater and controversial but #the fact that its often straight people judging whether queer representation has problematic elements (and similar situations) #and lots of queer media seems to be made with straight people in mind (at least as a considerable portion of the audience) #and ugh in general/unrelated like. i just want to write litfic about the human condition XDD and structural inequality #but if i do it with fanfic nobody will read it because my most popular fics will always be ones where white men kiss each other for 3k word #obviously i'm grateful that anyone reads anything i write aggdhfh it's very nice to be heard #but fr my most popular fics are NOT my best ones #and yeah like if i write original fiction it's unlikely to do well in publishing because there's no hot sexy straight romance or wholesome #soft high school good representation queer people:3 #maybe i can put in a red herring twink guy idk #also i'm just so bitter about linguistic inequality still XDD like. in a video abt fantasy tropes the person making the video hates they #said that they hate 'overly long fantasy names' that they can't pronounce #which just made me go 'silence anglo' mentally because omfg super often those names are just BASED ON CULTURES YOU'RE NOT PART OF #(disclaimer i know not all english speakers are ignorant hahfjsdhjfj) #but yeah its funny when old english inspired names are too hard for modern english speakers like welcome to being anyone else lol #its somehow considered a minimum requirement of knowledge to be able to pronounce names like george and matthew correctly #but then for other languages it's a special courtesy if people say names right #afujishgfis and this is just one example #rant #writing #literature

[goblintoothfairy]

I've just started working with teenagers who come from rough backgrounds, have mental health and behavioural issues, and struggle to stay in school. A couple of the boys can be pretty bigoted - racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, you name it - but one especially is.

We took a few of them out to do some activities and had a pretty fun day. This kid who didn't know that I'm queer and trans was saying all day about how he liked me. Then he gets back to the centre and out of nowhere starts talking about how he hates gay people, how he beat up his brother for being gay and how it's not natural.

So I sat down with him and we talked about it. I listened to him say a bunch of slurs and spout more homophobic shit before telling him that I'm not straight.

I didn't know how he'd react - a few people thought he might get violent. But he listened, and asked questions. About my identity, about when I 'chose' to be gay, all of that.

We talked for a while, and he concluded that he was OK with lesbians existing but he was still disgusted by gay men. Evidently we've still got some work to do on that. Then he said: "But I hate trannies, though."

I didn't know how to react for a second. I hadn't planned on coming out to him - I didn't think I could do it safely, partly because of his beliefs and partly because of wider attitudes about trans people in the UK at the moment. But I told him: "I'm trans, actually."

He put his head in his hands and seemed embarrassed. Good. His mate looked at him and asked why he decided to say that.

And surprisingly this kid listened to me again, and genuinely seemed to want to have a discussion with me. He told me about his beliefs about trans people and I heard him out, and then challenged them. I talked to him about dysphoria: "how would you feel if you woke up with tits tomorrow?" We discussed my nonbinary identity (predictably, he made an attack helicopter joke). And I told him about how I don't feel safe at night because of being trans - something he could relate to, in a sense, cause these kids deal with a lot of violence.

Sure, he was still saying a bunch of homophobic and transphobic stuff. But he told me that even though he doesn't like queer people, he likes me. And I think that that cognitive dissonance alone could spark a change of attitude in him. It's going to take time, and a lot more conversations. But I have faith in him, I think, and I'm proud of him for sitting down and talking with me.

It's really fucking scary being a trans person in education right now. Hearing about the education guidance targeting trans kids, reading all of the TERF rhetoric in the news and on social media, hearing about all of the shit going on in the US... It's enough to make you want to quit, and I don't blame queer educators for quitting. But even though it can be shit being the unofficial representative of your entire community, I'm honoured that I can be here and hopefully, eventually, change some of these kids' minds.

#trans #transgender #education #queer education #lgbtq #queer #lgbt #tw transphobia #tw transphobes #nonbinary #uk education #schools #teachers #teaching #personal #tw homophobia

[gleedyke]

Here comes my two cents on anti-Neil Gaiman posting that I hope comes across civilly and that if you choose to interact with you are also polite about.

Everyone has the right to like/dislike a creator and to separately like/dislike their work. I happen to like this particular creator quite a bit, and I do notice that not everyone GOmens posting does, which again, of course, is fine. Disagree with choices made, that's healthy, but the way I keep seeing "us (fandom) vs him" mentality on any type of post feels bad. This isn't a defense of him; I don't fucking know him, nor does he need that. I'm actually quite happy when I hear folks say they simply don't follow/interact with him if they dislike him. That's great energy, but the rest of us seeing it all over is less great. Thought some reminders posted into the void would help lighten up the energy around here, or at least get it off my chest lol.

1. I've been properly queerbaited by media. This is not fucking that. Take a deep breath and heal with me.

2. A lot of vitriol towards Neil, and frankly Michael and David too, seems to be about being straight men creating this. Have we still not learned to mind our business on this front. You don't know them, we don't know them, but everything we've ever seen from them proves they're on our side. You wanna be mad at a straight man for actually fumbling the bag Steven Moffat is right th- sorry I forgot this isn't about him I tried not to bring up Sherlock in point 1 I really did. ANYWAY. I'm not implying anything, but I have learned to mind your business a little when telling someone why they can't create something queer. That's all.

3. This is his story, and it's not over. It took so long for him to get an adaptation made that he actually wanted to do, and he's doing it. I point y'all to Percy Jackson (I know there's some overlap in demographics here) and how much better the new series is just because Rick Riordan is more involved in adapting it. Having an author of the original work handling the adaptation this thoroughly is a gift regardless of how you feel about him. Additionally, he's writing the rest of the story that he and Terry Pratchett didn't tell. In Terry's honor. For himself. For all the people with beat up original copies. For all the people who have just joined because they realized there is something magical here. But above all it's still his. Take a deep breath and remember this is a love story, and if you still are not content in the end there's always AO3 my friends.

TL;DR vent away on your Tumblr if you don't like Neil Gaiman, nobody is gonna like everyone and certainly nobody's perfect. But before spreading negativity against him on every corner of the GOmens tags, I encourage you to remember how essential he is to the work regardless of your opinion. And remember that those who do like him and his work are also doing so with the best of intentions. Aren't we all. Peace and love this new year. Wait and see. Etc.

#good omens #gomens #neil gaiman #i almost didn't tag this bc i don't actually feel comfortable up on this soapbox but i would like at least somebody to find comfort in it

[blue-grama]

Jesus motherforking shirtballs

Or: I am asking every business journalist to take one (1) gender studies class before I tear my hair out.

This interview came across my dash and it's a lot of fun, particularly Apo's "dad joke" actually being a hilariously cringey pickup line, but one aside by the writer made me wince.

ASDKHGKJ. This is not the first time I've seen an article about BL or gay romance in general speculate that the reason female audiences enjoy gay male romance is because there are no other threatening, icky girls on screen. I find this exceedingly irritating and misogynistic and I'm gonna rant about it. Now, look. Maybe there are women-identifying people out there watching mlm romance because they are threatened by beautiful actresses. Maybe. I haven't met every woman in the world. But this reasoning is, in my opinion, some male-gaze bullshit and needs to be smacked down. A non-exhaustive list of reasons to like mlm romance that AREN'T based on some weird idea of female competitiveness and insecurity: 1. Queer people... exist? Look, the LGBTQ+ community alone isn't the reason KP had huge international success. Just numbers-wise, it was probably watched by more straight people than not. But ignoring that audience makes absolutely no sense, especially because sexuality is fluid and many viewers interested in LGBTQ+ media may be uncertain/exploring. Cultural anthropologist Thomas Baudinette has talked about how many "straight women" exploring BL turned out not to be so straight. It's a thing. (Here on Tumblr the LGBTQ+ audience is THE thing, but there's a lot of selection bias here, obviously.)

2. A good romance is a good romance

In my personal (and admittedly limited) experience, cishet men have a hard time grasping this, but give me a good, swoony romance and IDGAF about the genders involved. I've noticed this is very common among my female-identifying and nonbinary friends, regardless of their sexual attractions in real life. Good chemistry is good chemistry, a good story is a good story, and honestly it's kinda insulting to silo LGBTQ+ romance off as something you need a particular reason to watch, if you're someone who likes watching romance. 3. Female gaze

Look. Mile and Apo are blisteringly hot individuals. It's interesting this article mentions the action sequences and not the inherent appeal of, say, these two humans exploring each other's bodies in front of God and Deutsche Bank:

Perhaps it's a family publication.

But to get a little more thinky about horniness: If you're a female-identifying person interested in men, it can be a tough slog out there. I'm coming from a western perspective, where romance is looked down upon in general. (Asian media seems more willing to look at the romance audience and go "hmm... $$$!" instead of "ugh, girl stuff.") And even when you get romance-driven stories, the male gaze is fucking ubiquitious. I remember having my mind blown some years ago by Outlander -- a show I did not make it through otherwise -- because the wedding episode in the first season has a sex scene in which the camera lingers on the male lead's face. That is some female gaze shit that you just do not see. I just spent a couple minutes checking in with the sex scenes in Bridgerton, probably the biggest romance-genre hit in the U.S. in some time, made explicitely for a female audience in mind, and even there, the camera spends FAR more time on the female leads' faces in sex scenes. Presumably the idea is that the female viewing audience will be inserting themselves into the scene and imagining her pleasure as their own, but ... show me a man's O-face, you cowards.

KP (and BL in general) does that.

I mean, quite literally. But also figuratively - men are posited as objects of desire, and the viewer is the agent desiring them. Taking a straight female as our theoretical viewer: We're so, so socialized to see females as the objects of desire and men as the agents of desire that even media made with straight women in mind parks the camera on the female lead. BL turns that on its head. The female viewer isn't watching a stand-in for herself being desired. She's actively desiring. I hope it's clear that this is miles away from "other girls are threatening." It's about being the one with agency for once.

4. Removal of the burden of one gajillion years of patriarchical bullshit

This is like a trauma response or some shit, istg, but sometimes it's nice to watch a romance not weighed down by 300,000 years of hetero gender relations. How many times have we seen a female character who is just a male fantasy or who starts out great but gets ruined by bad writing and it's like... fuck. Someone has probably written about this a lot more eloquently and intelligently than me, but sometimes it's just like, geez. Leave women out of it. Let us rest. I'm joking a bit, and this entirely elides the fact that non-het relationships can be just as abusive and problematic as a het relationship out there in the real world, but in the realm of fantasy I do think there's an appeal to stripping away at least part of the gender discourse. Especially for a fully escapist show like KP -- personally, I love a good female character, but I did not have any problem with the dearth of them in that series. Don't make me worry, even subconsciously, about the mafia's maternity leave policy, okay?? Contrary to idea that the mlm aspects save some sort of self-insert space for me in that romance, I as a woman-identified person did not want to be anywhere NEAR that hot mess. I wanted a world that touched on exactly zero of my real-life concerns.

Ok, maybe one real-world concern: How to find a small animal vet at an inconvenient hour.

Anyway, like I said at the start, I can't possibly explain everyone's motivations for watching KP or BL or anything, really. The world is a rich tapestry and sexuality is not a simple binary. But boiling it all down to, "women are insecure" ain't it and I would love to see that explanation permanently retired from casual use. EDIT: I forgot the link to the original article.

#kinnporsche #thai bl #lgbtq media #yelling about things that pissed me off over my morning coffee #please feel free to add thoughts bc i'm sure there are many more reasons people like this genre and this is a rant #not an academic thesis #romance #ps I just really enjoy the female and queer gazes as like things that exist #lotta resentment to straight male gaze supremacy from my quarter #mileapo

[rowanwithaz]

"Can't People (of the same gender) Just Be Friends Anymore? "

This is gonna be a fun one.

I kinda never went over this in my, "Deku Is Straight" post,and I guess it is a little different; but it's still a very popular argument against just queer ships in general. So,I will bring up how queer shippers get treated in most fandoms and just some problems in the media when it comes to representation; but it will mostly be about GreeNade and BNHA.

(⚠This post is not supposed to be hating on any one! It's absolutely fine if people view certain relationships as platonic,but what's not okay is having double standards and being a godamned hypocrite about it. This is just addressing issues that seem to pop up mainly against the queer shipping communities; not some kind of hate post. I encourage everyone to try and have an open mind and to try and be respectful of everyone's opinions.And as usual: as long as something is legal,ship away!⚠)

Broship

If you could not tell the ones on the top are taking about this scene:

And,from what I'm reading,they didn't get it. Bakugo didn't do it for "humanity" he didn't do it because Izuku is just a good friend of his. His.Body.Moved.On.Its.Own. He wanted to protect Izuku so badly that his body made him do it. He also copied Izuku,like when Izuku's body moved in its own...? Y'know,like,the scientifically proven thing you do when you love someone in a romantic way?

(*Also,when Izuku does this for Ochaco he second guesses himself and forces himself to do it unlike with Kacchan. Just found that interesting; and Izuku even says "it wasn't like last time" because he had to force himself to move. His thoughts also get cut off before he can come to a conclusion...hmmm,interesting.*)

Which Izuku has done this about a million times and even admits to it,

but chapter 285 is where Bakugo mirrors Izuku(he has,I believe in some other moments in the manga,I can't remember for sure; but this is the chapter it's most apparent in.) ,he also does the analyzing thing Izuku does.

Okay,now that is the significance (there is so much more that makes it so beautiful but that was just some of the quick stuff) So,can we really call this "friendship" ? Honestly,I guess,if you don't know anything about the relationship prior to this scene...actually no that's wrong. My Aunt saw this scene and asked if they were canon,she had not known anything about bnha/mha at the time. And when I gave context she was like, "so they're gay,?"

So, yeah. That scene even with no context; looks like someone dying for the person they love. But,perspective.

Here's the thing I'm addressing in this post. It isn't, "Guys,they don't do this for their other friends and they mirror each other on accident and the author himself doesn't refer to them as friends,ect,ect." There is too much that supports them being romantically interested in each other,but that's not the point. The whole "Friendship is dead,isn't it?" because people can see two dudes/girls liking each other romantically is.

And that moves us to the next section of this post.

Double Standards

The only time when someone says something like this Is when it's between people of the same gender. They aren't mad at people for shipping Momo with Izuku because they're just friends,that's okay because...don't tell anyone this is a secret antis have...they don't care as long as it's straight.

If it's queer it's "Friendship dead :(" but if it's someone like Melissa it's okay. It's honestly so...pathetic.

"Boy and boy have to be friend or my life is over 😠" or "Gal Pals or my life is RUINED 😨" Like, I have never seen someone get mad about straight ships like this. Honey,if someone said, "WHY can't a guy and girl just be friends for once?" Everyone would laugh in their face. Which is actually something I wish was normalized more. Once I had a dude friend and my whole family made fun of us and I literally cried because I had just figured out I liked girls a lot more than boys and I was having this thing pushed on me. That does not happen with gay people,actually get this,being called gay is still used as an insult.

(*That first one though...Like do they not know there are several canon trans characters and bisexual characters in bnha? And the Izuchako drawing 💀 I cried I was laughing so hard the first time I saw it.*)

If you know about the sonic idw comics,there are these two characters Whisper and Tangle. People instantly started shipping them because they were so cute with each other,but other people were mad because "two girls just can't be friends anymore" and it pretty much happens in every show that isn't LGBTQ+ centric.

Because people aren't going to read/watch Heartstopper and go, "Uh,these guys are straight why do you keep shipping them?" And as much as I love that we are getting stories and shows all about the queer experience, it does still piss me off that if it isn't something like a queer romance drama and or comedy people get mad at queer people for being in other things. People will be like, "You have shows that are centered around being queer,stop bringing it into our stuff," and it's exhausting. Like,there are billions of T.V shows,moves,books,comics,ect,that have nothing to do with a romance centered plot but they throw in this random hetro relationship that doesn't add to the characters or plot.

And that's one of the reasons I love BloodBubbles and GreNade,they add to the characters and parallel the story into their dynamics. I think all romance in stories should be like that. If a romantic relationship doesn't add anything but a little *smooch* *smooch* then it is ultimately useless. I understand if people like the *smooch* *smooches* but don't act like the relationship is well developed and needed. With a romance centered plot the romance is obviously needed. But does it mean it's good? Hell no. Most romantic movies have the characters fall in love in a week. That's just my opinion though.

Conclusion:

Stop using the "can't two people of the same sex/gender be friends anymore" argument,it just shows how much you do not know about queer people/relationships or just relationships in general. Queer people should be able to be represented in (God forbid) a Shonen and just media in general that isn't just a romance show. Everyone has different thoughts,opinions,and experiences,that shapes them into having a different perspective on things; but just because they have a different perspective doesn't mean it can disprove a plantain fact: Straight people have representation. Straight people do not need to fight for it either. So,stop fighting to be oppressed so badly.

Sorry to get so serious in the end...here this might lighten the mood!

This is the angle number for 285! The chapter Bakugo's body moved on its own. I find the angle number being about kindness very interesting. :)

That worked right? Also,I like doing the conclusion in a bigger font,so I'll probably be doing that from now on when I'm wrapping my posts up.

#mha #bkdk #dkbk #bnha #dekucchan #greenade #togachaco #blood bubbles #dekugou #izukats #silly antis #lbtgq #Antis really are so funny #I appreciate their opinions #Without them everyone would be so much more happier #And if I can't be happy no one can

[akkrosu]

Thank you, @recentadultburnout, for tagging me and asking for my nine favorite TV shows! I might have gone a little overboard because I haven’t been tagged a lot before, but please indulge me.

This is going to be limited to QLs, if only because I couldn’t think of a single piece of Western (or straight) media I love and/or remember well enough to be able to put on this list. The ones I have chosen are below, in no particular order.

1. The Untamed

This one belongs here both for being a fantastic story and for being the reason I even discovered any of the other series on this list. My entire “obsessed with Asian queer media” thing started all because a friend once told me, “Let me show you what I’ve been watching recently.” What can I say, drunk Lan Zhan got to me.

2. Moonlight Chicken

One of the most beautiful, thought-provoking and mature series I’ve ever seen, QL or otherwise. P’Aof is a genius and I would have to hide in shame if I didn’t have at least one of his works on this list. He created a narrative of six real people trying to figure out life and how to be happy and there is so much strength in every single one of them.

3. Not Me

With at least three watchthroughs one of my most-watched BLs. I mean, OffGun and the social commentary and political action and the queerness of it all and the characters. Ugh, I love this show. Plus, the music and musical editing were phenomenal.

4. Where Your Eyes Linger

Probably my favorite Korean BL ever? Also the KBL to really get me into KBLs, so it already deserves a medal for that (I was missing out on so much). I’m a sucker for good yearning and forbidden relationships, and this series gave me everything I wanted. And, again, the soundtrack. The instrumental of See U playing as Kang Gook storms Tae Joo’s dad’s house lives rent-free in my mind.

5. HIStory 3: Make Our Days Count

Yes, it’s the other HIStory 3, the one everyone ignores because ‘he went out to buy salt’. Look, don’t judge me, I own up to my love for this series. It’s not the show’s fault all anyone ever remembers is the tragic ending. It’s also such a beautiful story about a total dork falling in love with a lonely nerd and defying all odds to be with him. Plus, the best sibling relationship ever. And (spoiler) said dork dying doesn’t invalidate everything else the series tells us. Yes, it was sad, but I can deal with the sadness. And sometimes, the sadness is as much part of a show as it is of life.

6. The Eclipse

This series haunts me to this day. I was obsessed with it, and I still am. Akk is one of my favorite characters ever written, and First portrayed him beautifully. So did Khaotung with Ayan. The sheer existence of P’Golf baffles my mind to this day. These 12 episodes gave me everything I’ve ever wanted.

7. The Eighth Sense

I take back what I said about Where Your Eyes Linger. This is my favorite KBL. I’m not even sure I can explain why. It’s just so honest. And so, so queer. It made me cry so many times, and the storytelling was magnificent. Plus, it’s one of the few full-length KBLs we have.

8. We Best Love

The cups in my profile picture are the ones Yu Zhenxuan and Pei Shouyi drink out of in the flashbacks of the second season, so... yeah.

This was my very first QL that wasn’t a bromance, and so I’m very biased. I’m almost mad at myself for making this my first one, because sometimes it feels like nothing else could ever live up to it. I admit to having a special love for season 1, even though season 2 seems to be the one people talk about a lot more. It’s just perfect, everything about it. Especially Gao Shide’s mom.

9. My School President

What a phenomenal show. I remember how much I was looking forward to Fridays during the time this was airing, and each week it gave me everything I wanted. Gemini and Fourth are fantastic actors, the friend groups made me cry all the time, it’s one of the cutest things I’ve ever seen, and there are some absolute bangers in there, musically speaking. Gun and Tinn will always have a special place in my heart.

Some honorable mentions because it’s really hard to pin down exactly nine:

Never Let Me Go – I spent a lot of time debating whether to put this or MSP in this list because I love them both equally. And because they aired around the same time, they are sort of irrevocably tied together in my mind.

Big Dragon – I loved this significantly more than I ever expected to, and I can’t be impartial about Yai to this day, because I love him with all my heart. This was such a messy, weird, chaotic show, and yet it somehow gave us such beauty and sappy people in love.

Step by Step – It doesn’t get to be on the list because it hasn’t finished airing yet, and so it could still fuck up, but if it keeps going like this, it is definitely going to become one of my favorites. (Same with Be My Favorite, honestly.)

I don’t know many people around here, and certainly not many I wouldn’t feel awkward tagging, but I’ll just be awkward anyway and kindly ask @ellaspore and @biochemjess if they feel up for it. I wanna know! (No pressure, though.)

#the untamed #cql #moonlight chicken #not me the series #where your eyes linger #history 3: make our days count #history 3: modc #the eclipse #the eighth sense #we best love #my school president

[delistravaganza]

I swear I relate to everything you have written about the enemies to lovers trope and lesbians.

it’s not even about lesbian representation, at least in fandom, of course that’s important but it’s not the point here, it’s about having wlw stories that are as...complex? Messed up? Intricated? as straight or even (in more recent years) mlm romantic storylines are allowed to be. I feel like I am constantly hungry of complicate stories with lesbian or bisexuals female characters involved in messy relationship. But almost every popolar ship that I meet on fandom or tv shows either is watered down, made all soft and sweet and not threatening and so not complicate enough to be appealing. (or in the fews that are not like that in the original media they get made in this way by the fandom- it’s so unnerving). it seems to me that’s it is either “tragic dead lesbian” or “soft sapphic story all is sweet uwu”. As someone who love stories with romance only when the romance is very complicated and not necessarily healthy and full of ambivalent feelings (don’t judge me as you said it’s just a matter of preference ashahaha) I sometimes read slash (mlm) fanfiction on ao3 that feature very complicate and not necessarily healthy dynamics and I go damn I wish that there was a fanfiction exactly like this but with two women instead of two men.

I get this 1000%. To be fair, I don't think it's just the wlw couples being UwUified in recent films and shows, this happens to all queer representation because of the pressure to create "good rep". To some extent, it's even happening with straight pairings because people are more aware now of sexism and what it really means to consent, though everyone still seems to be willing to let this knowledge fly off if teh guy iz HOT.

But there seems to be a particular issue with writing f/f interactions that are manipulative, dark or somehow more adult, not necessarily meaning sex but rather a more nuanced portrayal of the relationship. Whereas all the straight toxic romances went to specific (and thriving) genres such as "dark romance" (which at least seems to be more self-conscious as the Reylo fic I mentioned before), and we get glorious epics of m/m fanfiction stories (and books that feel like fanfiction), it sometimes seems like the women characters are treated as little girls.

Even in a dark, creepy, cannibalistic, adult-oriented show such as Yellowjackets, I found myself more interested in the hypothetical Jackie/Shauna pairing because oh boy that was complex! than in the actual lesbian pairings involving Tai, who is a great and somewhat nuanced character except when it comes to her (sanitized) relationships. Is it really just me favoring problematic and unhealthy dynamics or is there some truth to this? (It may be me.) Is Tai a bit tamed down because she's gay AND black?

Also, to be completely fair, I think that I have more expectations when it comes to wlw plots, maybe because I subconsciously think of them as more "me" than the others. I've read a lot about how women use slash to slip away from the narrative and write more freely, and the fact is - I've read a lot of trash when it comes to m/m. And I definitely don't remember it with the resentment I save for f/f media like First Kill ("you fucking set out to be everything I wanted and turned out to be a pile of dog shit!").

I have also read extremely interesting books featuring f/f dynamics on the latest years, which I could post here instead of whining à la Louis de Pointe du Lac, but the fact is that these books already set out to be a work of literary merit and weren't written to dwell on the romance or possible romance itself. I'm not even counting MBF here as I read it a while back for the first time, but it could be an example - I don't know, but it definitely wasn't written with UwUification in mind. I'm still thrilled at how much the marketing DID and DOES UwUify our girls and their relationship. Sometimes the marketing is like: Wouldn't you just love to have such a special friendship like these two? Uhhh what? No, thank you, I had my share of that shit?!?

Oh, and also - I'm not even sure it comes down to self-identification either. I said I identify with Catradora, but the fact is I don't necessarily identify with either Catra or Adora. I just identified with their feelings, and I felt empathy for them, and I worried and I suffered and I felt frustrated and I so, so, so hungered and feared for their fights and God, you should really check this one out because it's really on the edge between UwU and dark, and I think it's this mixture what made it work in today's world. It seemed to appeal to both parts of me - the one who lowkey wants the positive, young-and-healthy-oriented rep she didn't have as a teen, and the more prevalent one who prefers angst and twisted things. And yes, it's a cartoon. A cartoon did what many real, adult-oriented shows and books couldn't do with me.

But Catradora probably also worked because we, the audience, were purposefully kept in the dark about them, so we got to experience their story as it developed and without any clear expectation as what the end would be (compared to: here's your wlw romance of the day! Ship them! Hope they don't die!), something I'm sure you wouldn't be able to achieve now that all the info is out there.

Anyway, I'm rambling now and already taking too much time off work. But I find this topic fascinating. If anyone else wants to join in the conversation or point me somewhere that isn't Buffy/Faith or Catradora or Villanelle or Nicky/Lorna (YES I STILL SHIP THEM AND WILL ALWAYS DO) or our Neapolitan toxic friends, please do. And as always, nice talking to you. <3

---

P.D.: Here's a long video analysis that I really liked that tackles why "good" LGBT representation is boring (not wlw representation exclusively).

#queer representation #my brilliant friend #yellowjackets #jackie x shauna #catradora #f/f #sapphic #first kill #wlw

[emblazons]

I think the thing that makes me sometimes "doubt" Byler endgame is how the writers seem to treat Will in the narrative by either making him nonexistent, sidelined and unimportant overall with often minimum screentime. Idk. A lot of ppl tried to explain why it was necessary for him to be sidelined but that resulted in the audience thinking that Byler has no chance of becoming canon and that Will is just a useless background character. Add the monologue moment in S4 and Mike constantly talking about all in S4, how do you explain the duffers will make the narrative fit in what they have showed so far in the show? Most ppl will think Byler came out of nowhere and if Will gets a huge moment regarding fixing/saving the world ppl will think it came out of blue and there was no buildup. It takes really pains to prove Will's importance and Mike's love for Will. And not sure if the writers will manage that.

—so I’ve answered some version of this kind of doubt several times on this blog before, so I’m going to direct you to those posts, so as not to reinvent the wheel:

Will's Taking a Backseat in S3 + Dustin companion piece

The Duffers, Show v Tell, and people missing subtext

The Duffers Aren't Writing "Casual TV"...they're writing for themselves and people like them

Why people assume ST is written poorly (like other shows)

General Audiences, Media Literary, and "Catching" Byler

Why I Don't Understand "Duffer Doubt"

On: "Objective" Byler (and ST) Commentary

The Duffers, the "GA," and how your value system affects how you go about interpreting (or missing things in) media

Mike & Will's 3 season arc (and how it fits in the wider narrative)

On: M&R being "2 Straight White Guys" writing a queer story

+ a cut for more thoughts about how Will really wasn't all that sidelined lmao

That said: if I’m honest, I fundamentally disagree with the premise that the duffers somehow need to “make the narrative of Will fit into s5,” as though he hasn’t been integral to the Hawkins connection to the UD since literally day one.

That, combined with the fact that he was barely even in season one outside of flashbacks (and yet still managed to carry all of S2) + hasn’t really been sidelined at all if you know how to read emotional beats and not just “action” ones? Like, sure, him not being front and center was true in S3, but given that he is the center of all of Mike’s emotional decisions across all of S4 and is now quite literally holding the “main relationship” (which it’s not, but we’ll let that go) together…saying he’s not central to what’s to come given his active connection to El, Mike, every single Byers, the rest of the Party and now Henry/Vecna as we file back into Hawkins is insane.

IMO, the real problem (and at the risk of sounding like every byler critic on the internet) is that the show is made of an ensemble cast who have all had their rounds in the spotlight over the seasons…which means that Will is not going to always be at the fore front of the action, because this is not The Will Show and not every season is written with his story as its primary narrative core. That said, if you are paying attention to the emotional and even supernatural beats of the show, you can clearly see where they’ve set Will up to hold an important and even critical role in the final season—

—especially given that characters like Henry and Vecna didn’t even technically exist 2 seasons ago, and yet now hold primary weight in the story and in the minds of this “general audience” people love acting like matter most to the Duffers (even tho they have repeatedly said they don’t lmao).

I personally do not give a damn about what “the GA” thinks is possible given that half of them were mad when Will was central to the story in S2 (the 'S2 was my least favorite season / the season I don't watch much of people) and half of them couldn’t even tell he was gay, despite being plain as day to anyone who doesn’t need every single beat of the story spelled out for them….and that the duffers literally and repeatedly make fun of people for doing I throughout the show.

All that said...I respect your right to doubt, but…of all the things I could doubt The Duffers being able to pull off in the minds of this nebulous “GA” everyone thinks is so stupid they haven't picked up on any subtext or plain narrative (which I could make a strong case they aren't...which is why they pitch such a bitch lmao), making Will central to the 5th season after all the pains they’ve taken to flesh out both his connection to the UD and his romantic feelings/sexuality is not one of them.

It's not as nearly "blindsiding" as people seem to think it is—because the second you stop thinking everyone is heteronormative, you realize a lot of people who just aren't as loud as the naysayers on the internet see it plain as day.

#finally getting to the marathon of asks in my inbox lmao #that said... I'm not sure how many more asks like this I'm gonna answer tbh #I don't know how many ways I can say the same thing like #its giving someone trying to evangelize a person who has made up their mind not to believe LMFAO I'm not gonna convince you #not if you're not open to being convinced...or want to tunnel in on your doubts to protect yourself #I can't reinvent the wheel lmao #asks

[in-deep]

If you could only pick one piece of Byler evidence to convince someone that Byler is endgame, what would you pick?

First off - I wrote this stream of consciousness style so please be kind aha.

I’ve been thinking a lot about this question and I think it’s simply the fact that if Mike is in fact straight, then what is his character arc?

Let me explain.

A lot of the GA view Mike as a glorified side character - sidelined after S2 to fulfil the role of El’s incompetent boyfriend whilst simultaneously leaving Will (his best friend) behind and treating him like a dick. The GA also view Mike as straight. For many GA viewers, the idea that Mike is gay/bi, let alone in love with Will, seems implausible and were it to happen, it would come out of nowhere.

Which leaves the question of: what is Mike’s character arc?

From this GA perspective, he doesn’t have one. He’s destined to make up with El in S5 and support her independence, and kindly turn Will down and go on with being besties like the supportive guy they remember him being in S1/S2. If anything, his character has regressed from the early seasons into a douchebag - a mouth breather. 

Not to mention that from this perspective, he has no real internal or external trauma to be unpacked. While this is obviously untrue as it has been made clear by the Duffer brothers and even within the show (Mike’s suicide attempt, Wheeler family discussion around his behaviour at school) that he is struggling with depression, that doesn’t seem to play into their predictions on his ending. If anything, many GA viewers don’t really view his character’s conclusion in S5 as something important because to them, (just to repeat my earlier point) he’s just a glorified side character.

Of course, if you watch the show carefully and focus on Mike, you’ll quickly realise that his character is dealing with a lot of the direct pressures of heteronormativity and internalised homophobia:

His family is your classic nuclear family, Nancy talks about the Wheeler family dynamic extensively in a heart-to-heart with Jonathan 

S1 has a lot of homophobia - all of it is about Will, but a lot of it is targeted and directed toward Mike

There are multiple times he is visually shown to come to realisations about his feelings toward El and Will, respectively. Now I won’t analyse those in this post because technically, none of the contents of those realisations have been made clear to the audience, it’s just my own interpretations. I’m sure this will come back in S5, though.

To show Mike’s queerness in S5 is not changing his sexuality, simply just revealing what has been shown to the audience the entire time. Stranger Things is brilliant at show vs. tell. They tell us something, and then show us something entirely different or even something that directly contradicts what we were told. Much of the GA don’t pick up on this (and tbf I don’t really expect them to, it’s intended to be subtle!).

To reveal concretely that Mike is queer and in love with Will would change everything. It would be shocking! The GA would lose their minds - and many people would, at first, struggle to believe it. But upon rewatching the show, it would all make sense. It would turn what many view as an unimportant character into one of the most well thought-out and planned queer stories in media history (definitely an exaggeration but bear with me aha, I’m not normal about these boys).

What people thought to be an incompetent boyfriend and an absolute dick to his best friend for two seasons in a row would turn out to actually be a deeply traumatised boy struggling to remain on the “normal” path (quote from Finn Wolfhard on Mike), within the bounds of heteronormativity. A boy who desperately wants to play DnD and Nintendo with his best friend, but realises that what he feels for him isn’t “normal”. It would reveal so much about Mike and all the things we never got to see from his perspective.

And in terms of my predictions, I’m absolutely a believer in Mike being Vecna’d, and we’ll finally see Mike’s point of view on all of this. Just imagine Vecna taunting him about how he failed to be normal. He failed to do the “right” thing. He’s been in love with Will since before he even realised it.

So yeah. Byler is real. Byler is endgame. And I’m 10000% certain that Mike is going to become an extremely popular character once we get his insight. He’ll also absolutely need a hug once all is said and done. I will be hysterical. 

But at least he’ll have his cleric <3.

A really good video on Mike's internalised homophobia that essentially sparked me to write this post in the first place, and I highly recommend if you haven't seen it yet, was this one (@lesbianmindflayer) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6IOlmBEEgE&t=80s&ab_channel=LesbianMindflayer

But yeah! What would you pick as your one piece of evidence?

#byler #byler analysis #mike wheeler is gay #mike wheeler is bi #mike wheeler is queer #mike wheeler #byler is endgame #byler is real #stranger things 5 #st5 predictions #mike wheeler needs a hug #i will defend mike wheeler as long as i breathe #i love him so much #let him play dnd and nintendo with will pls #just one scene in s5 of them getting to hang out pls #duffer brothers ill do anything

[livebloggingmydescentintomadness]

Do you think Misha is really straight? Because that would mean Cockles wasn't real all along.

i've been kinda-sorta avoiding answering the asks i have along these lines, partly because i have real life stuff going on, partly because i'm obsessed with ofmd, and partly because i haven't really wanted to get into my feelings about it, because i'm still a little upset.

but look. not to overhype my credentials, but as one of the leading cockles experts out there... misha is not a straight man. i don't like calling him a liar, but he's not a straight man. i know too much about him, i've watched him do and say too many queer things for it to be even a possibility in my mind.

look, this is what happened. misha came out as bi. without prompting, he named himself as bisexual. if you watch the video, there is simply no way for it to have been a misunderstanding or for him to have misspoken. he came out.

that was on a friday, and he didn't post the "i'm straight" tweets until monday, after a full weekend of interacting with con-goers who treated him as having come out, and he never corrected them. some people claim that he was upset about the attention his coming out was getting, but i've heard of no accounts of him telling anyone "there's been a misunderstanding", only that he was potentially distressed about the media attention.

before misha's tweets, stands, the company that sells spn merch and is, i think, owned by misha (or at least closely tied to him?), sent out an email pushing bi spn merch with a reference to misha's coming out. stands posted a tweet about supporting "a queer man". that tweet was soon deleted. later that same day, misha's "i'm straight" tweets were posted, after more media outlets started reporting it.

i don't know what happened exactly, but i suspect that misha has a lot more trauma than any of us know about. we know that he was homeless for years as a child, we know he was bullied, we know he self harmed as a kid, we know he had a really difficult family situation and he moved around constantly, changed schools constantly, had a hard time making friends, was fat as a child and bullied for it.

it's pretty easy to observe that misha developed his characteristic bombastic overconfidence (calling himself "the overlord", etc) as a way to compensate for his actual insecurity, that he insulated himself from his pain and loneliness by intentionally standing out as "weird" by choice instead of by force. when we get glimpses of misha's underlying pain and vulnerability, it becomes pretty easy to see just how much of his personality has been deliberately constructed as means of self-protection.

and my point in saying that, is that despite all the confidence he projects, i think misha is genuinely terrified of coming out and being publicly known as queer. i don't know if this is due to general cultural homophobia or if he has personal trauma at the hands of homophobia, but when you examine all the pieces of his life i don't think it's difficult to imagine that he has at some point been traumatized by homophobia and it's left a lasting mark. he's very quick to stand up for other queer people, but he seemed damn near fucking terrified to call himself bisexual, even in a room full of his fans, a large number of whom had just identified as bisexual too. he's made "weird" his brand, has never hesitated to do bonkers off-the-wall shit, but it took him until the age of 47 to develop the nerve to come out.

i don't know if the backpedaling was due to personal trauma or professional worry, but i think he started panicking and dove back into the closet. personally, i feel like he should have foreseen it being picked up by the media, considering that he is famous, but i can't be angry or disappointed in him for going back into the closet. whatever the cause, i'm sure that it's a valid one.

mostly, it just... makes me really sad. like i said, i've seen enough over the past nine years i've been a cockles scholar that i know he isn't straight. and i just find it fucking heartbreaking that this man carries so much pain and fear in his heart that even after he worked up the courage to say it out loud, it still has such a powerful hold on him that he felt the need to lie about who he is.

it's just... fuck, it's just an utterly miserable thing to have to witness. you could see both the joy and the terror in him when he came out, and i was so happy for him and so proud of him. i'm not not proud of him now, but it just makes me so profoundly sad.

i haven't been able to laugh at any of the jokes and memes about it, because i care about him as a person and i genuinely think he carries a lot of unresolved trauma here. now he's the butt of a thousand jokes, and if he ever does choose to come out again it's going to be so much harder and messier for him. he has such a kind heart, so he probably feels like he's let his queer fans down, he probably feels terrible about lying, he probably has no idea what to do now.

i just feel really awful for him and i wish he could the have peace and freedom he deserves.

#misha #cockles ask #wank for ts #homophobia tw #anonymous #ask

[celluloidbroomcloset]

Hi, other anon! First ranty anon here. Thanks for adding the bit about Rhys and Taika! In my head I included them in the cast and crew who helped shape their characters but actually didn't put that in the rant... 😅 And I gotta rant again, sorry! Please yell at me if I'm annoying. I just gotta rant at somebody.

But of course canyon op downplays their contributions! They're straight, they don't count! Only Con does since he's the only queer one in the "main three" cast! Besides who cares about how wonderfully adorable and romantic their little ad-libs made Ed and Stede! Nobody cares about Ed and Stede!

/sarcasm

Never mind the (admittedly slim) possibility that either Taika or Rhys or both could be queer and just publicly identify as straight. I don't know or care if they are or aren't, that's their business. But downplaying their contributions to the show just because they identify as straight is not the best look. Same with trying to villify Jenkins for his original plan (which still doesn't matter because he scrapped it) just because he's cishet.

"Jenkins never meant for this show to be so kind to queers!" they say as if Jenkins had nothing to do with the casting of so many queer actors and the hiring of the astoundingly diverse writers' room. He asked for queer writers and actors to help him shape this! Why does canyon op try to paint it as queer actors subverting a straight showrunner to make something awesome when he asked them willingly to contribute? Is it not better that this cishet man went to members of the community to help him make his show a wonderful celebration of all types of queerness because he recognized his limitations? Do they not realize just how rare it is to have that? Do we not want more awesome queer media that treats the community with love and respect, no matter who makes it? Why try to paint one of the few truly good things we have like it's just barely dodged being yet another lame "queerbait" when it's anything but?

(sorry again but I just saw their additions and justifications and like...did you not read your own tags, canyon op? you are trying to turn people against Jenkins with your post and you are twisting his words to turn him into a villain and downplay his involvement and make the show entirely the result of the cast dodging around him and...I'll stop now. sorry! 😆)

I think the original poster blocked me, which I'm more than fine with, but I still do find it quite funny that I literally didn't realize they were going for a "David Jenkins bad!!" narrative.

It's hard to say who shapes what in a show like this; again, it seems pretty indicative that Jenkins is collaborating with others and not simply forcing through everything himself. The whole point of allyship is for those in positions of privilege and power to use that to hold the door open for others who aren't. (I know there are lots of people who take issue with Taika, for different reasons that are perfectly legitimate, but he has undoubtedly held the door open for others, and it seems that Jenkins has too.) So to criticize Jenkins for making a poor choice and then deciding he could make a better choice, and that turning into what we see on OFMD, seems not at all about allyship or queer rep, but about personal animosity.

Same goes for Taika and Rhys. Again, plenty of actors can and would categorically refuse to do the queer romance. Others would be entirely uncomfortable with it and try to brush it off. I know nothing about these men personally, but every interview has them talking about how proud they were and are about what they've been able to do. (It's also, TBH, unusual to see two straight male actors being so openly loving about each other, which I think is nice to see.)

What struck me and so many others about the first season is that...they actually did that. I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop and it didn't. They're gay. It's a romance. There are bisexuals and trans/nonbinary people and asexuals and polyamorous people. The cast is hugely diverse. One of the leads is a biracial indigenous man and the other is the whitest man on the planet and they're shown falling in love (look at media history sometime and let me know how common THAT is). The big villains are toxic masculinity and colonialism. Classists get burned alive. Racists get their hands stabbed.

It is very much not a perfect show, and there are things it could do better, but what it does is fucking remarkable. You will not find someone more leery of white male artists than me, and it is always possible to be disappointed by a direction a show takes, even when its first two seasons are so good. But we should embrace it when art is done right and this show, so far, is done right.

I sure as fuck will not let a teeny group of dingbats mad that it doesn't conform to the story in their heads ruin that.

#ofmd #guess i had something to say #feel free to send asks always #never mind that this show gave me insight into my own queerness #that's a personal thing and not everyone's experience #but don't fucking tell me it's queerbait

[teamfreewill2pointo]

Is there any proof that CW imposes or asked Misha to be bi or imply it? Or anyone that has worked for the CW?

Sorry if I misunderstood this ask, but I think you have it backwards? Tinhats believe that the reason that their celebrity/public figure is not publicly out is due to PR. This is true to some extent.

DJ Qualls only recently came out, even though it was well known that he liked men. There were many rumors about Kevin Spacey before he publicly came out. There's a leading man that I hear many rumors about in queer circles and on gossip pages, but I'm not going to post his name here because I think people are entitled to their privacy. I don't know much about this man, but these rumors seem more credible than any CW actor, in part, because this leading man has more to lose.

More than that, the CW wouldn't be the one deciding if an actor should come out or not. Often this is a decision that an actor makes based on their ability to land certain roles and their fear of landing those roles becoming endangered if it is publicly known that they like men. These are usually actors who are playing leading men in romances.

DJ's career wasn't challenged by him coming out now, although it could have been negatively impacted had he come out earlier.

PR is something that people often over- and underestimate in fandom depending on their approach. I think a lot of underestimating comes from people not realizing that officials are involved in certain projects or how they are involved. For example, Kings of Con isn't just something a pair of friends are doing, but they also have investors. Those investors probably aren't controlling R2 to a high degree, it's just that R2 are being mindful of how their content will be perceived by their investors.

There's a lot of PR around casts all being friends and loving each other. Most of the time, this is PR. But at the same time, if there are people who are fighting in the cast, that information gets out. It's really well known that David Duchovny and Gillian Anderson had lots of conflicts on the X-Files set, something that they have now both admitted in public. Samantha didn't return to the Sex in the City revival due to conflicts with her actress.

Multiple people, including people who are known for being open and honest and not bowing to PR, like Mark Sheppard, have talked about how genuine J2 are and how they have a real friendship.

For example, there are antis on both sides who try to claim that anytime J2 do something affectionate and brotherly together, that's just PR, but PR doesn't work like that. PR wouldn't forced them to get meals together in the evenings outside of the con, especially when they aren't announcing that they are getting the meals together.

If they aren't announcing it and we are finding out about it from third parties, or a casual mention as part of a larger story, then you know that it's not PR.

I expect when the revival really kicks off, we are going to see more brotherly posts from the Js about each other, and that will be PR, not because they don't genuinely have that relationship (they do!), but because they are promoting that relationship to support more Supernatural. (See 2015 social media.)

So if Misha was queer, there would be no problem with him coming out based on the type of actor that he is and the current climate. In fact, him coming out as straight put a lot of egg on his face, and was bad PR. This was a choice that Misha made. Nobody told him to do any part of it, and definitely not anybody from the CW!

#cast #misha collins #behind the scenes #pr

[willel]

I am going to be honest, as a queer person it also irritates me when I see the GA talk about Will, especially in the context of his sexuality and them not noticing it and saying he must like Eleven. But at the same time, I have to agree with the GA on one part, and that is the way the show wrote things in terms of Will's sexuality (and his whole character... but that's another topic), they made it so subtle that most of the audience missed Will was gay. He doesn't even come out to Jonathan, and the fact that the scene between them both was also an afterthought left a bad taste in my mouth. The van scene happens so quickly into the episode too, so it has like a couple of minutes at most and then the audience's focus is shifted to the main plot. It isn't centered or anything, it kind of seemed like they just wanted to show it and then quickly move to the 'real things' to me. That's ofc partly dependent on how the Cali plot is overall written and their lack of screentime and focus compared to other plotlines, but the scene feels very out of touch with everything else going on, and on top of that the confirmation is not that obvious either, so it feels sort of weird. Most of the audience didn't notice the scene and didn't understand it because of the writing choices imho, so I really cannot fully blame the audience for their criticism and lack of noticing things.

But the thing is, it was not that subtle at all. You didn't have to be a super analyst to see the signs.

I am someone who likes critically thinking about the media I consume, but I often completely ignore the romantic aspects of characters. Most popular media these days boil down to a straight romance with a love triangle that didn't need to exist but the writers couldn't think of any other way to make it exciting.

I also don't put a lot of thought into character sexualities because it's always either a case of super straight no question about it, straight but the writers thought it would be fun to imply they're not, or gay in an almost stereotypical way that executives wanted to cash in on.

To me, Will was none of these things. He was just... an average kid in the closet. I started to pick up on it in season 2, mostly nearing the end. Joyce was teaching him how to dance at the ball but she was the lead which is usually what a guy does. Will clearly and obviously had no interest in dancing with that girl and it wasn't because she called him zombie boy. And finally, "every smile you fake" playing when he was on screen as the Mind Flayer, who was just inside his mind, was hovering over the ball.

It was then I went, "Ah, Will isn't straight. Not sure what he is exactly, but it's not straight. And the monster probably knows it. "

How can anyone not notice those things? You have to be blind not to see the signs. I don't think the writers need to be particularly overt and blast it in peoples faces, people should be able to pick up on those clues in my opinion. Especially how awkward Will was being with that girl compared to every single one of his male friends.

And then you got season 3??? How can anyone possibly think "It's not my fault you don't like girls!" and Will's absolutely devastated reaction to it could mean anything else? You really think a teenage boy would be on the edge of tears and have an emotional breakdown in the forest just because his friend said he doesn't have a crush or a girlfriend?

I mean I know teenage boys are emotional, but it was SO obvious what was being laid down and anyone who denied that was being purposely obtuse. People were arguing about it on reddit for years leading up to season 4 even though it WAS SO OBVIOUS.

And then in season 4???? No one has any excuse anymore not to see what was going on with him. It wasn't not subtle at ALL. I think even the straightest person you ever did see knows how a coming out scene might look like even if the words "I'm gay" are never said. That was the Will and Jonathan kitchen scene in a nutshell.

Maybe the writers could've done a few things here and there to make it even more obvious for the less observant people (like the cut script of season 2 when they had Will looking at Mike across the room dancing with El, though I feel they cut that because they were probably still debating on who would Will actually be interested in, Mike or someone new)

But I will not give the audience a pass at this point for missing what is right in their face. Especially when some of that audience is actively malicious against LGBT+ anything.

I do not advocate dumbing down our media or making things so overt that it's out of place so that people who refuse to analyze their media even a teeny tiny bit won't have to think at all. If a general audience member later realizes WIll was gay and says "Oh I didn't notice!", then their first thought should be, "Dang, I really missed that? I should rewatch and actually watch the show this time."

You don't need a big brain to consume Stranger Things. It's not as deep or complicated as some shows can get. But also, people shouldn't treat Stranger Things as the summer popcorn flick where they just go into the movies, laugh and giggle, and then forget everything as soon as the movie is over. There are too many people in the GA who treat it this way, ESPECIALLY after what season 3 turned out to be.

#ask #Anonymous

[cbk1000]

HI!! ID LOVE TO KNOW UR THOUGHTS ON THIS (if u dont mind me asking)

Why do u think so many women gravitate or feel more comfortable reading/writing mlm fiction?

I don't think it's that they necessarily feel more comfortable reading/writing m/m fiction, I think it's that so much of media revolves around men that m/m ships are overwhelmingly more numerous because it's slim pickings for female characters. I saw a post on here a while ago that broke down all possible ship combinations using the Marvel fandom as an example, and there were infinitely more choices for m/m ships simply because there were so many male characters. Fandom is also a space, in my experience, with a lot of queer people, so I think a lot of what you're seeing with the preponderance of m/m ships in fandom is simply a lot of queer women wanting to tell queer stories, and having, in many fandoms, more, and more well-developed, male characters and relationships between men to explore. And too I think it might be that we see a lot of intense male relationships portrayed on screen, and have even coined a whole phrase, 'bromance', to make sure people understand that the romantic elements they're seeing are not, in fact, actually gay, because God forbid. I imagine seeing a story that looks queer, only to be told that it is not, is frustrating for people who have spent a very long time waiting for representation in media, and fandom gives them the opportunity to redo those stories by making them explicitly gay.

When we're talking about traditionally published fiction versus fanfiction, while I have read some gay novels written by men who, I think, are gay (I won't list them as examples of gay fiction written by gay men because off the top of my head, only one author I'm thinking of is for sure out as gay, and I'm not positive about the others, and it's none of my business how they identify), most of what's available in the m/m genre does seem to have been written by women. But romance as a genre has always been dominated by female writers. It's the one genre where they aggressively outsell male writers. Any romance, regardless of the sexuality of the main pairing, is more likely to have been written by a woman.

Also, I think, no matter how open-minded they are, straight male writers are less likely to write in detail about a gay couple. They might have a gay couple or character on the side, but most of them likely are not going to set out to tell a story about men being in love with one another. There will always be exceptions to this, of course, since it's a generalization, and Sebastian Barry is one such example of a male writer who, so far as I know, identifies as straight but wrote a novel about two men falling in love for his son, shortly after he came out as gay. But men, even those who are not anti-LGBT, have still usually been socialized not to act in ways that might be perceived as gay, and writing a gay romance is going to be perceived as pretty gay. So you narrow down your potential pool of writers a lot when you take out the majority of straight men, leaving mostly women, who don't have to worry that they'll be taken as a gay man if they write about one, and gay men, who are kind of, you know, already gay. Obviously there are a lot more female writers, gay and straight, than there are gay male writers, so again the chances of a woman writing m/m are just higher based on sheer volumes and the fact that romance stories are overwhelmingly a space made by women for women.

#writing #fic #slash

[faejilly]

a while ago i watched someone react to 1.03 and were praising izzy for being an ally and like i love izzy but almost every time she brought up alec’s sexuality it made me super uncomfortable bc who would really want to be constantly in fear that your sibling is going to out you in a very homophobic society while trying to be supportive? and like there’s no way that izzy doesn’t know that the clave is homophobic and she still brings up it up all the time, it just seems weird that she can understand that the clave is racist but can’t comprehend that it is also homophobic, and she never really dropped the topic despite alec being uncomfortable with it

#mood

HOWEVER

The question arises... was Alec uncomfortable, or were pretty much all the queer viewers uncomfortable?

There's a thing with most media, but TV shows & movies especially, which have so many people involved in making them, and so many constraints behind the scenes that we the viewers may or may not know anything about, that sometimes the way a scene appears to the viewer is NOT the way it was intended/the way the characters take it.

Shadowhunters is a particularly egregious example of this, being a (relatively) cheap YA melodrama on a third-rate network whose entire production staff got swapped out between seasons 1 and 2, so 'lol what is consistency or planning?!?' is visible everywhere.

SO.

Is Izzy in-universe actually clueless/dangerous Straight People™️or were the writers/showrunners clueless Straight/White People™️who had no idea that half of their 'rule of cool' / 'quick banter' / etc. came across as micro-aggressions to the audience?

You can go either way, it's all a question of which you think is more fun/interesting/necessary for your own peace of mind/enjoyment of canon. (Fandom is supposed to be fun after all.)

A lot of people settle on 'they are that bad in canon' and write a lot of fix-it fic or 'nephilim have to deal with CONSEQUENCES!' fanworks, and those are great! A lot of other people go with "clearly everyone else in canon acts like they have positive relationships, so this is a failure of execution and I'm going to write fic/make art assuming that these people are who they SAY they are, and figure out what that looks like to me" and those are also great!

Just decide which one you're doing when you start, because combining both in one fic gets... a little weird? Hard to follow, at least. 🤣

SO: Is Alec uncomfortable? How does he deal with that, what does that say about his relationship with Izzy, with other nephilim, with the Clave & Council & Alicante? How does that contrast with how he feels interacting with the downworld, which is canonically a lot more self-aware and accepting of queer people and minorities?

If Alec isn't uncomfortable with Izzy's behavior, if no one else seems to pick up on it, why? Do we go with other people's reactions in canon and assume that she is in fact very careful with what she says where and it seems overt to us the viewers because we're allowed to see it? (Much like inter-party banter over comms in heist movies or tv shows; no one else ever hears it or sees it, so we can see and hear it for storytelling purposes, not for 'reality' purposes.)

If that's the case, what does their relationship look like to people in public? How different are public-facing Alec & Jace & Isabelle from what we the viewers see of their private relationships to each other?

Do you want to assume some mish-mash of both? It's more subtle in the setting than it seems so we can see it, and also Alec knows she means well even if we don't? OR SOMETHING ELSE ENTIRELY?

IDK, I have no conclusions here. I mostly assume that the show is a disaster, and these people all seem to like each other, so how can I write them that fits the results rather than all the dumb-ass details? (I like a lot of authors/artists who go the other way though.) This is encouraged by the fact that the technical/magical worldbuilding is nonsense so I'm making up shit all the time anyway, might as well add characterization to that too! 🤣🤣🤣

#jilly answers #Anonymous #sh critical #my sh rambling #isabelle lightwood #alec lightwood #lightwood family feels #shadowhunters #tangential tuesday #sort of #sh meta

[elcorhamletlive]

I'm someone who ships by*er and I don't really agree with some of the things on your blog when it comes to shipping, but I love your take on how the duffers have written themselves into a corner with will. I do think a lot of people who ship by*er just want will to be happy but they've set it up in a way where he has no other love interest than mike so either by*er happens, will gets some random bf/love interest thrown in during s5, will dies, or he ends up being the only single party member. For the last 3 it's gonna be disappointing for queer audiences or people who just like will's character in general, him getting a bf in s5 isn't that bad but it's still going to feel a bit like they just had to give him someone so they made a character last minute. And with will being the "gay kid in love with his best friend" would be something that a lot of queer people have gone through and have seen in media so if they make it unrequited its just gonna be another "gay kid in love with his straight best friend who doesn't like him back" story which I know a lot of queer people are sick of seeing, so its gonna be a bit unsatisfying.+ if byler doesn't happen and mlvn ends up being cannon they're are probably a good amount of mlvn shippers who are going to be celebrating it, bragging about it, and have it be a "in your face" moment to by**rs because of the lasting ship wars which is going to feel like "you get your happily ever after straight romance while we get this unrequited gay story again" to a lot of people. (Sorry if this ask Is a bit long or just repeating a lot of the stuff you already said)

Hey! No worries about the ask being long. I appreciate the civility, even if we disagree on several points.

Like I said, I understand the logic b*l*r truthers are working with. I just don't agree with their base perception: I really don't think mutual b*l*r would be a good narrative choice, at this point; I don't think it was a set up and I don't think it works for Will. I understand why shippers wouldn't agree, but if I think about Will as a fictional character, I think him moving on from Mike and dating someone new would fit thematically with his arc much better than his feelings having been reciprocated all along. Ideally, this would have happened earlier (or at least a new character for this role would have been introduced earlier); but I still think it can be done in season 5, if the writers want to. Lumax happened in the same season Max was introduced and I thought their storyline was lovely.

Either way, even from a representation-focused perspective, I'd have issues with B*l*r becoming canon. I don't like the idea of a character's sexuality (Mike's, in this case) being treated as a "plot twist" deliberately written to catch most of the audience by surprise. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I've seen people act as if it would be the most progressive, revolutionary thing to happen in television, and I just... don't agree. It happening only in the final season would also, indirectly, imply that they held back on actually writing the romance for fear of alienating a homophobic audience - which, I mean, not a great priority to have.

When it comes to Mileven, I think that there is such a difference in perspective that is hard to have a conversation. Again, I really appreciate the civility in your ask, but when you say: "If B*l*r doesn't happen and Mileven ends up being canon", I'm just like... Mileven is canon. It has been canon since the very first season. Some B*l*r shippers have this idea in their minds that both B*l*r and Mileven are on equal levels of possibility, that it's a Jancy/Stancy situation where it could go either way at this point, and I just don't see it, sorry. I've heard B*l*r shippers pestering Mileven shippers for "proof" of their ship, and the people who say this seem to not realize that it's the equivalent of asking for Jopper "proof", or Lumax "proof". These ships don't require proof because they're not theoretical. They're in the text. Those are our main couples; we're going into the final season. It's not going to change (and I say this as someone who doesn't care about any of the aforementioned characters as much as I care about Will, so there is no shipper bias coming from me).

I think your concern about shippers gloating is legitimate, and I see how such gloating could be very hurtful to B*l*r shippers who are emotionally invested in the idea that the only good way to finish Will's story is having him get with Mike, but there are multiple points of view to regard here. There are no innocent sides in a ship war. I have seen Mileven shippers being egreciously homophobic about B*l*r and about Will - this is inexcusable. However, I have also seen B*l*r shippers being misogynistic and ableist towards El; and just behaving in an antagonistic manner in general, towards anyone who disagrees with them. Obviously this isn't every shipper, but, when this kind of behavior exists, it inevitably sets the tone and creates an environment where, yeah, there will be a lot of gloating when B*l*r doesn't become canon. I can't say I don't get it - I had several discussions with B*l*r shippers, prior to vol. 2 coming out, in which I was consistently talked down to, called a homophobe, and told I didn't understand anything about filmmaking or media literacy. When vol. 2 dropped and it turned out I was right and all those people were wrong, yes, I did enjoy some schadenfreude; and I expect to feel the same on season 5. So I can't blame other people for feeling similarly, sorry.

#anti byler #antibyler #if you're a reasonable shipper who doesn't engage in this kind of behavior i'd advise you to have fun in your own lane #and to not build much expectations from canon