#and there is NOTHING WRONG with the fact that bruce doesn't kill. this isn't to bash bruce for not killing. but i think it would be

[starry-bi-sky]

idle clone^2 food for thought (cw gun tw murder) and. thinking about how danny in canon is very protective of his people. and as a collective fanon we like to make him go Batshit when his people are severely injured.

and im just mmmmm,,,,, danny would kill if damian (or anyone in his family) got extremely hurt. but only under very specific circumstances. like they've been backed up into a corner and can't get out and it's either kill or be killed. like his go-to is non-lethal force but then someone takes out his little brother, whose breathing but not getting up and hurt badly, and there's nowhere for them to escape and these guys are gonna do much worse soon.

but there's a gun nearby and within danny's reach, and the guys who have them trapped are gloating and only half-paying attention because what are they going to do now? they have him trapped.

and they hurt his little brother.

and danny doesn't see red. everything just goes into cold, static focus instead. and he puts a bullet through the stomach of the first guy he sees.

And i'm just picturing Danny with this stone cold fury on his face, his hands shaking, as he looks the main guy (who know he's a clone) in the eye and says "your first mistake was thinking i'm batman"

#dpxdc #dp x dc #dp x dc crossover #dpdc au #danny fenton is not the ghost king #dpxdc crossover #dc x dp #dpxdc au #clone^2 #tw murder #tw gun #“your second mistake was attacking my brother” #“please i have a family” “so do i” #i think it would neat is all. clone danny is very similar to bruce in many ways. but not this. #and i think it would be a very neat (important?) contrast is all beyond the other differences #because they're both vigilantes. they both love their family. they both are protective. they both are so similar to each other #and yet so different. i think there should be at least one major difference between them both. danny doesnt agree with murder and is usuall #the 'i would die for my family' type. but under specific circumstances he would flip the script and become 'i will kill for them' #and there is NOTHING WRONG with the fact that bruce doesn't kill. this isn't to bash bruce for not killing. but i think it would be #a neat distinction between them both. thats all. #bruce is not the 'lesser' person for not killing. #“i dont kill based on my respect for life.“ ”my respect for life ends with my brother/family.” #“and you hurt them. so now all bets are off” #stay tuned yall i may or may not post a rare thomas wayne au post today

[artemismoorea03]

DPxDC Prompt: Green Lights

(This might go from a prompt to another oneshot thing but we'll see how it goes)

Bruce has no idea about Danny's powers when he gets the call about his cousins in Amity Park. Jack Fenton, Maddie Fenton, Jazz Fenton, a couple of High Schoolers, and a high school teacher were killed. All that's left is his 14 year old cousins and while it's a long shot given how many other kids he already has they're reaching out on the off chance that he wants the kid.

If he doesn't the Mayor of Amity Park has offered to adopt him, but from what he can hear over the phone, the kid isn't happy with this.

"No! You can't send me with Masters! I can't go to Masters! Please, y-you can't!"

Bruce didn't hesitate. "I'll take him in, it'll be no problem what so ever."

---

When he meets Danny he learns he's 15, the age Jason was when he died and close in age to the rest of his kids but he hardly looks 14. He's thin, scared, and scarred. Danny seems hesitant to talk to any of the kids and the kids are torn. Damian is pissed to say the least.

No matter how badly Damian treats him or acts towards him Danny doesn't react. When somebody apologizes for Damian's actions Danny just gives the quiet reply of; "Believe me when I say nothing Damian does is anything compared to what I would have experienced if other interested parties had gotten their hands on me."

This raises flags.

One of many.

-

Danny has scars. They learn this when Danny pulls off one of his hoodies and his shirt pulls up to show the amount of scars. He's got more scars than most of them - if not all of them. Burns, cuts, electrocution scars and countless others. When they ask Danny about them he just shoves back on his hoodie as fast as possible and runs to his room.

He doesn't come out until the next day and even then he's distant.

-

Every room Danny enters gets cold - they blame this on the tension in the air given Danny is the only one who doesn't know their secret.

Danny's teeth are weirdly shop - they blame this on bad dentists.

Danny has scars - given what Bruce heard about 'Vlad Masters' over the phone he fears it was abuse from either Masters or Danny's parents (in a way, he's not wrong).

Danny has nightmares - they blame it on the accident that took his family and friends (they're not fully wrong)

But then people in the family notice that Danny's eyes glow in the dark. It's not the fact that they're glowing that bothers them, it's the fact that they're glowing Lazarus Pit's Green.

#dpxdc #dpxdc prompts #I'm tired #sleepy bee #and so is Danny #let my son rest #chances are the Wayne's now think Danny also died in the accident and was brought back or a clone #meanwhile Danny is just waiting for Vlad to show up and cause trouble

[redhoodinternaldialectical]

Every time I learn something new about Batman: War Games I lose my mind a little bit more cause just, just fuckin, look okay so here's the thing:

Stephanie Brown tries to implement a contingency plan of Bruce's just after he fires her from being Robin and because of that gets tortured to (almost) death and no one knows she survived.

THIS STORY RUNS IN THE NEWS:

So, you know, anyone who might be paying even half a fucking ounce of attention to news about ROBINS would definitely absolutely notice this!!!

And then very very soon afterwards Jason comes back and specifically targets Black Mask to ruin the criminal empire he tortured Stephanie to get

As a way to torment Bruce about the fact that he doesn't take care of the nastiest criminals and they continue killing people

And how Jason should have been the last to die

and SOMEHOW

these two things are in no way related and Jason has nothing to do with or say about Stephanie Brown, fellow Robin, fellow martyred soldier, fellow child dead due to Bruce related villains.

HOLY DEAD SIDEKICKS BATMAN, DO YOU COMPREHEND THE MAGNITUDE OF MISSED OPPORTUNITIES HERE????

please walk with me down a timeline in which:

Lost Days Jason at first just tries to go after the Joker and can't because who he's really mad at is Bruce.

Then he sees Who Really Killed Stephanie Brown and the utter horror of another Robin dying on Bruce's watch (not just dying, but tortured to death!) is what convinces him to try to straight up kill Bruce via car bomb

Roman Sionis is no longer merely a tool against Batman, but another figure to demand vengeance be brought upon, another attempt to give Bruce a chance to right his wrongs and do what needs to be done

The confrontation with him and the Joker being all the more tragic due to how obvious Bruce's answer would have to be once Jason knows Bruce isn't going to avenge Stephanie either

Does Jason, once he escapes the rubble after UtRH is over, kill Black Mask anyways? Does he decide to avenge her himself? Or does he think that she too would demand that of Bruce, and find his death by a different hand unsatisfactory?

If he doesn't kill Black Mask, then when Steph is back, I feel confident he approaches her, tries to reach out to the other dead Robin, almost certainly makes the offer now that he can ask her. Does she take him up on it, gaining an ally and slipping into a far darker role? Does she instead refuse, either appealing to forgiveness or far more interestingly refusing both vengeance and forgiveness? How would Jason handle a refusal, which I gut instinct feel is more likely?

If he does kill Black Mask, then when Steph is back Jason drops his corpse at her feet like a loving housecat with a dead lizard and she has to grapple with her feelings about having someone really and truly avenge her!!! Like how DO you react to someone who you have been warned is wildly dangerous and mentally unstable coming up to you and saying, "I'm glad you're back, like me. I'm sorry you're back, like me. I made sure you could rest knowing he was dead, because I know what it feels like."

Like no matter how each character reacted to this happening there would be so much high stakes emotional shit to explore with both of them!! Revenge I feel like is such a pivotal thing for both characters, they mirror each other in so so many ways, they could be really interesting together if DC would just fucking let them!!!

Jason had a criminal father who he missed and wanted to avenge. Stephanie had a criminal father who she wanted vengeance on.

Jason started off as a fairly gentle soul who progressively became more violent and more hopeless as he was exposed to genuine horrors during his time as Robin. Stephanie starts off violent, angry and rash and finds her own courage and hope through her time as a crime fighter despite of the horrors she's been through.

Jason went to Africa and died there after Bruce failed to save him. Stephanie was taken to Africa via a fake death in order to save her from Bruce and the vigilante lifestyle.

I just...

There's just...

There's SO MUCH HERE I am genuinely fucking confused as to how this is not all deliberate?? And it's all just left on the cutting room floor because for no reason apparent to me they all just decided Stephanie and Jason were not gonna interact!

AAGHHHH!

#jason todd #stephanie brown #dc comics #damian's tomfoolery

[dcxdpdabbles]

The ballad of Jane doe has me in a choke hold. The lyrics really feel to me and I had an idea of an alternative universe where Jason as Robin and beheaded by Joker as a way to avoid irl identification? Idk he’s insane. 

But the lyrics that really spoke to me were: Oh Saint Peter, let me in!

You must know where I've been

Won't you tell me at last who I am? 

(This can be either Jason revived and never getting his memories back and asking maybe maybe Danny someone who is kinda his minder who he is but Danny never knew him so he can’t say or Batman in a desperate but frustrated way when he’s all vigilante and stuff while fight and takes off his helmet for dramatic effect and maybe Jason never aged and still 15 or he just doesn’t have a head so Danny made one of ecto that is supposed to look like him) 

And I'm asking "why, lord?"

If this is how I die, lord

Why be left with no family

And no friends? 

(Jason never having his memories cries out for any information but maybe someone is blocking his search or some other factor, Jason not having any memories mourns the thought of family and maybe in a fight he’s yelling angrily about the unfairness of his situation and having no one, maybe even a vent to Danny if slimmed him spinned right) 

I’ve got no celebration

Just this consolation

Time eats all his children

In the end 

(Jason not remembering his funeral and his only consolation is his missing head or a scar on his neck from the beheading and this can also relate to clockwork and you know the Kronos correlation, how time has no favorites and everyone will be forgotten just like him in the end of their days wether it be their death or the last time their name is said) 

A melody floats through the air

When silence falls, does no one care? 

(frustration of no one telling him who he is and and maybe there will be a fight scene where he takes off his helmet and asks if anyone- anything cares about his existence in front of Bruce or the batfam) 

how Danny plays into his either this is alternate Jason and Danny being one person and Danny being in an accident which kills him half not and half did or Danny is dead Jason’s minder and they get teleported to another universe where canon is idk :)

I'm not going to lie. This song goes hard for Headless Jason.

I like what you wrote about this being Danny as his alt! Jason, but I also like the idea that Jason's family are descendants of the original Dullahan. He just didn't know it since he didn't know his bio mom.

Anyway, the family gets one extra life, which his bio-mom used up before, and that's why she died in the explosion that took Jason's first life. He wanders Gotham the first year as a zombie because he doesn't have his head until Danny finds it and helps reunite him.

But that year, Jason forgot who he was, and he was filled with nothing but questions and anger. Danny decided to be the bridge between worlds and stuck around to help him. Instead of Jason ending up with the League of Shadows, he is in Ghost King Phantom's court and is living in a small house on the outskirts of Gotham, trying to learn his new ghost powers.

Danny is super excited since this is the closest he's gotten to another Halfa since Vlad, and yeah, it's a little scary that they can't get his head to stick on his body since they've been apart for too long, but Danny is working on it.

In the meantime, they have Jason wear a red Biker helmet that he never takes off. Nothing can go wrong with that! The fact that Joker used to do the same thing as Red Hood meant nothing to Danny and his roommate, who enjoyed gardening, cooking dinner, and sitting together to watch a movie!

The occasional cuddle here and there! Slight domestic bliss sprinkled in!

No, Jazz, that isn't his undead boyfriend. That's just his roommate! So what if they are the same age? Danny is technically hiding from his parents, so he never ventures too far from his property!

Jason likes being in the boonies with him just fine.

#dcxdpdabbles #dcxdp crossover #dead on main #dullahan is my roommate Au #I had fun with this and rolled with it #Part 1??? #May write this later #i know the song is a lot sadder but I like fluff more #Danny found his head in his garden one day #It just appeared #He is hald dead so he thought it would be polite to return it

[felidacy]

The effects of Tim's blood consumption and consequences

Tim scars

Tim compared to every other vigilante in the family has the least amount of scars, but makes up with it in the fact that the ones he has are the most gruesome. The batfamily always wonders how that is possible when in too many cases they saw him getting very badly hurt or almost dying, yet far too quickly he seemed fine again to them. And even when Alfred -- ever strict -- performs check-ups on him, there is truly nothing wrong.

The blood consumption and healing cycle system is nothing complicated. The more fatal a wound is, the more blood he needs to take in. The longer he waits with consuming blood, the slower the healing effect is. It is simple with some handicaps that he learned down the line through trial and errors and causes the dilemma of Tim needing to know when he is safe to drink blood. This is all so Tim has some edge to himself and may seem powerful, but in actuality because of his fears and desire to belong he chooses to hide it away instead. As such, Tim is still a quite human-ish vigilante.

A few examples from the story and what scars he should have

Like in many of my AUs, one headcanon of mine is that the Joker Junior case with Tim is happening here as well. While the joker serum certainly had an affect on Tim, he was also kidnapped for days and hungry. Starved he was more on edge and lost more of his rationality, which is why he shot the joker and nearly killed him. (Jason won't know for a while that both his siblings in fact did kill that awful name and he still pulled through. That even Bruce tried even when he doesn't want to acknowledge it) This causes some new tension with Bruce again, but that gets blamed on the Joker serum later on though Bruce in typical fashion holds that against Tim at times anyway. It gets better with time but Bruce is awful with emotions and a hypocrite. While kidnapped Tim was heavily tortured and with the lack of blood to heal him, I believe that Tim has muscle spasms because of the electro shocks at times and Glasgow smile scars in the face.

Like stated in the previous post, after the attack of Jason and because of the Pit blood Tim will have a scar left on his throat. It took his body a while to get every last remnant of the Pit out of his body again (Vampire metabolism works different than humans one, which is why Jason needed to learn to adapt around the Pit even years later.) and as such it takes Tim longer to heal. It were the months after the attack that got to Tim, not even the attack itself unlike many believe.

When Tim was gutted, he took higher responsibility in saving Pru than to even consider drinking blood from Z or Owen. Honestly, it was because Tim always refused to drink blood from people that he cared about that he didn't (he was called stupid for it by Pru, but they both knew that Tim would have accidentally kill the person then just because he wouldn't be able to stop.) As such, the gruesome scar remained there.

Handicaps

The spleen + Pit Water effect

When Tim became Red Robin and therefore more distant from the family in an act of more independence, he rarely let Alfred check up on him anymore or even just shown much of his body any longer. Or that is at least what the family believes, in reality is far less of the suspected teen angst.

At the time when Tim lost his spleen he wasn't put in the Pit to be revived, however Ra's at that point had an unhealthy obsession with the teen (like in canon but worse because Ra's was able to tell Tim wasn't quite human) and did not want to lose such an interesting new asset. As such a little amount of the Pit was put into Tim.

This does not give Tim any rage-episodes or just in general higher aggression/bloodlust, however because of that Tim does need to consume more blood than before and if he doesn't drink enough, that puts Tim in great pain just like if he were to drink Pit infested blood itself.

Pit infested blood

Tim's invulnerability isn't perfect as stated through hints. Jasons blood has changed because of the pit and at best only puts Tim in more pain. The slowing down of the bloodflow and cauterization that takes place is a high risk play, seen as -- if he can't get blood quick enough the effect sinks drastically.

Blood of the dead

Drinking blood of the ones that are already dead, no matter how long ago that occurred, is never a good idea. It doesn't put Tim in pain or heats his unnaturally cold body up, however it has the similar effect of sickness. Tim is unable to consume blood of any kind then for a long while because his body will violently reject it.

Now, one would think that is easy to avoid especially after Tim learned that. Funnily enough it happens a lot though. (It isn't really that funny, but his siblings would taunt him for that if they knew.) A vampire easily slips into a haze and when animalistic instincts take over it becomes significantly harder to distinguish between the living and the dead, as bizarre and easy that sounds.

#tim drake as a vampire #batfamily #dark tim #tim drake #I will forever have a Joker jr brainrot and I die for any content about it #just some headcanons #I put tim through so much pain #swear I love him very much but I just wanna beat that small boy up anyway #it's been a while since I thought about this AU idea

[theconstitutionisgayculture]

You know what I like in superhero stories? When they answer the question of, "Why don't the villains just use their talents for money?" with "Because they're too dysfunctional, too selfish, or too crazy to use their talents honestly."

Because isn't that how it is some of the time? Where you have brilliant people who can easily make a ton of money, but they want it all NOW so they use crime to get it, or they blow it all on hedonism and need more, or something else that ends with them being criminals? Doesn't it also make them such good foils to heroes who often also had a bad hand but chose to do the right thing and put others first, even when it brought great sacrfice?

One side actively chooses to do good, regardless of whether it rewards them. The other side actively chooses to do evil, No matter how much it punishes them.

YES.

Good and evil are choices and the best characters reflect that. To continue beating the Batman horse to death, Bruce Wayne with all his resources and iron will dedication to his cause, could have easily decided to lash out at the world for what happened to his parents. In fact, considering his resources and an upbringing that was more isolated from society than is the norm for most people, I would say most people in his position, in the most corrupt city in the world, would have turned to vengeance and hate. But instead, he made a choice to do the opposite. His vow wasn't to make the people responsible for his parent's deaths suffer. His vow was that no other child would ever have to suffer what he did. His mission is pure. It is noble. And it can never be fulfilled. That's what makes him compelling. That's what makes him a hero.

And that's why all the "Esleworlds" and "What Ifs" where Batman is a murderer and a violent psychopath feel like a water damaged old daguerreotype compared to the vibrant 8k photograph that is the real Batman. Because choosing hate and evil is boring. It's the easy thing to do. It's common and it's commonplace. Reading about people like that does nothing to inspire. It does nothing to make a bad day a little brighter. There's nothing to admire. Nothing to strive towards. True heroism, the choice to do the right thing when the wrong thing would be easier and more satisfying, is noble.

And nobility is something that comics have been seriously lacking, lately.

Now let's contrast that with another dead horse, the Joker, in the deadest of all the Joker's own horses, the Killing Joke.

In that story, at the very end, Joker is offered a choice. Even after everything he's done, to some of the people Batman cares for the most, Batman still offers to help him. He offers rehabilitation. To work with the Joker to get him the help he needs so that one day he can heal and be something other than the monster he is. He tells the Joker he will stay with him so he doesn't have to be alone anymore. And the absolute brilliance of that story, the thing that turns Bruce from a hopelessly naïve idealist into Batman, is that the Joker actually considers it. And the offer that Bruce makes, the way he phrases it, "we can work together" "you wouldn't have to be alone anymore", is him giving the Joker exactly what he's always wanted--Batman's full attention. All he has to do is make the hard choice. To work on himself. To change. To heal and be a better person. And in the end he chooses not to try. And he doesn't just reject it because he's evil, or because he can't understand that what he's doing is wrong. He rejects Batman's offer because he thinks it's far too late for that option. He's done too much, become too much, to ever go back. He chooses to spurn the thing he's always wanted most and to stay on his current path because he thinks trying to go back would be impossible. Which once again brings us back to Batman. Because if you'll remember, the path Batman chooses is also impossible. He can never redeem Gotham. He can never prevent every child from losing their family to violence. He knows this, and yet he still chooses to try.

Once again, that's the difference between a hero and a villain. A hero chooses the right thing. A villain chooses the easy thing. A hero is noble. A villain is common.

Modern comics are common.

[pinepickled]

some big UTRH meta

or whatever

so I reread UTRH and I have thoughts, particularly on the actual theme and reasons behind UTRH being the way it is. The long and short of it is one thing and one thing only: what does Bruce care about more?

Firstly, let's talk about the setting of UTRH, particularly in respect to the other Bat's brood. Jason is dead, of course, but also at this time Barbara has been paralyzed by the Joker. Stephanie is dead. Cassandra, Tim, Dick, and Barbara have all cut off contact with Bruce due to his deep grief and inability to cope after Jason's passing resulting in him pushing them away.

I'd like to focus on one thing, though, and it's the fact that Joker, as seen in the papers Talia gives Jason, hasn't been contained in the slightest. At. All. Still alive, still kicking, still hurting people under Batman's watch. He's even gone to the heart, one of the eldest of Batman's children, Barbara Gordon. He put her into a wheelchair through nothing short of bloody, torturous violence. Joker has done at least 2 horrific things to two separate little kids that were supposed to be protected and loved by the Bat when UTRH starts.

Knowing this, we can see where Jason's idea of the Joker needing to die takes root. Batman claims that killing the Joker would be wrong on the simple moral ground that killing is wrong, that exerting great power over others isn't ethical. What Batman doesn't know is that he ultimately exists in a comic, which we'll get to later. Jason can see plainly that Batman is incapable of doing anything substantial to keep Joker from hurting more people, and he knows he's willing to do what Batman cannot. What's the obvious conclusion here? What can be done to stop the Joker from making another Jason Todd? Another Barbara Gordon?

The man says it himself.

Not only does Jason bring up what Barbara has gone through because of the Joker, he also brings up the 'graveyards' that the Joker has filled, the thousands of innocents who have suffered at his hands. Jason isn't just thinking of the Batfamily here, he's thinking about the average Gotham citizen who's lost a parent, a spouse, a child, because of the Joker.

Now you may be saying, 'But Pine! Killing is wrong because (long, long list of political reasons that vary based on your brand of progressivism)" and normally i'd say you're right! In the real world where people are not a means to push a narrative or tell a story, taking life is wrong in any circumstance!

But, you see, the real life New Jersey doesn't have a psycotic clown going around killing people and being thwarted by a man in a bat costume. Although Batman's reason for not killing the Joker is a sentiment that exists in real life quite well, it just can't be used on it's own to justify why Jason is wrong. This is a world where aliens go around saving the Earth in spandex or shirtless. the real world way of things is extremely loose at best.

The real way to look at this, aside from the capital punishment argument, is through the lens of family. Parents go to the ends of the Earth for their children, everyone knows it or so we're told. Losing a child is one of the greatest pains that anyone can go through. Jason isn't telling Batman to suddenly be glocking every random villain that crosses his path, he is begging his FATHER to do what fathers DO. He says it plain as day that the familial love goes at least one way, that if the roles were reversed then Joker would be dead in the ground. He is begging Bruce to give him a real answer, be honest about why he won't do it.

In the world these characters live in, where the impossible happens daily, where a man with so much power and so much nobility had the worst thing taken from him, Batman avenging Jason makes sense. Especially when the boy himself is begging for it. It's not to prove Batman loves him because Jason knows he did, he knows he deserves to be avenged.

He looks so damn young in that last panel.

But this isn't just to say that Jason is completely opposed by the logic of the DC Bat universe, or even by the Batman himself! There are multiple times in the story where Batman second guesses himself, so close to being able to give Jason the love he wants but always shying short.

Allow me to explain.

Time and time again, Batman has been ineffective. He cannot stop the Joker and it keeps coming to bite him in the ass, especially when it comes to the batkids! Jason was fucking killed, one of the few comic book characters who died and was going to stay dead. He has plenty reason to be upset, and it is very lucky for Bruce that Jason only ever wanted him to kill the Joker and not everyone else he's failed to rehabilitate, such as (appearing in this story alone) Black Mask, Mr Freeze, Clayface, and im sure there are more!

Not even to mention that Alfred actually does somewhat see the logic in Jason crossing the one line no bat crosses. In this panel, Alfred is reminiscing on Robin!Jason being """dangerous""" and the reason, as Jason observed it, for why the crazy 'dress ups' like captain nazi and joker and the like were so bold whereas other street thugs weren't.

In the universe of Batman, Alfred Pennyworth finds himself seeing the logic in Jason's ideology even though he knows that it opposes him and Batman morally! Also, let me say again, in real life Jason's actions would be morally reprehensible but it is a Batman comic, not real life. Bruce and Alfred privately doubting their own ideology despite fighting Jason is another way to push a narrative, the narrative that even though the Wayne family grieved, even though Bruce to that day was not over Jason's death, even though Bruce resorted to self destructive behavior, reclusiveness, seeking out the scarecrow just to see his greatest fear, to see Jason, again.

And in this panel, we can see that Bruce's ideology actually does start to cave! Batman and Alfred are telling each other a story of son and father, of a father being proud when the son overtakes him. Is this not blatantly saying that Jason's new way of dealing with Gotham criminals is the way that surpasses Bruce, that could actually make a difference instead of repeating tired cycles? Or at the very least, that Bruce thinks it is so? On some level?

Check out that silence in the middle. Bruce, Alfred, and the empty Robin!Jason suit. All three of those people are thinking the same thing.

UTRH is a story about doubt, about times changing, and about DC itself. It's a sort of meta comic, expressing Judd Winick's and ultimately our, the fan's, discontent with the Batman storyline. Nothing has changed, nothing has resolved. Things happen and then a reset button is pushed, like it never even mattered at all. The one character who did matter, who's reset button wasn't pushed to erase his trauma, is being used to criticize DC and Batman in one fell swoop.

UTRH wants the cycle to end. UTRH wants a new Batman. UTRH wants an end to the 80 year retcon.

UTRH wants Bruce to be a kind, loving man again.

Capital punishment is the last thing on the minds of the writers.

#jason todd meta #jason todd #under the red hood meta #under the red hood #bruce wayne #batman #the red hood #red hood meta #long post

[evilwickedme]

So the thing is Jason never asks Bruce to kill the Joker in UTRH. He asks why Bruce didn't kill him and questions Bruce's slippery slope argument but he doesn't tell Bruce to kill the Joker. Instead he tells Bruce he will kill the Joker and Bruce must choose between allowing him to do so or killing him to stop him. Jason is not asking Bruce to kill the Joker but to accept the killing of the Joker or he must kill the Jason to defend the Joker. 1/2

The sad thing is Bruce throws a Batarang in desperation. It doesn't seem like it is aiming for anything it just happens to hit a wall and ricochet. Also in the original story Jason never sets off a bomb not did he ever intend to set off a bomb. He tied the Joker to a chair with bombs so the Joker would not move while he was fighting Batman. Joker broke free after Jason was struck got his gun and fired at the explosives. Jason only planned for Bruce to do nothing or attack him. 2/2

okay so I will admit I misremembered the dialogue from utrh and that's on me for not getting up to check bc I spent nearly six hours being cat-upon but hey I have the comic next to me now and I'm even using a laptop instead of the shitty chrome mobile browser to type this up

so basically yes you are correct and I misremembered what happens in the scene as jason asking him to shoot either jason to stop him or the joker to kill him and while that's a great scene that's not the scene that actually happened. I was referencing the comic, not the movie; the movie's good, but I like the comic much better and I thought I was clear I was talking about the comic, so I'm not sure why the aside about the bomb was necessary, I don't really have much to say about the change in this context

I do feel more confused in a way now, though, as to your point, bc if it's about the issue of morality, either there is no difference between inaction (not preventing a killing) and action that leads to the same result (killing the same person) or there is and the inaction is better, so morally like. the same exact things are standing in between jason and being right? or even like we should be more on jason's side?

bc again from my actual irl pov not only is killing the joker wrong, but inaction that leads to his death is equally wrong - you are morally compelled as a human being to do whatever you can to stop the evil that is right in front of you as long as you are capable of it, and bruce is obviously capable of it. but within the fictional framework we're in, jason is asking his father to care about him. that's all he cares about. he places himself in a position where bruce can either admit he's going to let jason kill the joker, kill jason, or, unspoken but very real, he can kill the joker himself. but putting all that aside...

the reason he's doing this is still like what I said in the last ask, "there is no line drawn for jason between the fact that bruce didn’t avenge him and the fact that bruce didn’t prevent other people from dying". If anything, this idea is stronger when jason is just asking him to do the same thing he did before: let others die through inaction.

so yeah, factually I misremembered some of the important dialogue from this scene. but like, emotionally? jason still cares that bruce didn't kill the joker, and he still wants bruce to know why the joker is dying at his hands. the joker isn't going to die in some anonymous alleyway and be left to rot without jason confronting bruce first. because at least in utrh a random drug dealing pimp who's making everyone's life worse being killed by jason is a small favor he can give to the world. the joker, however, is standing, quite literally, in the way between bruce and jason. it's just... it's completely understandable, and within the framework of the story, morally justifiable.

#I guess I just don't understand where the 'but' comes in #like how does this negate anything I was saying? or am I missing something? cause this just feels like an infodump #and if that's it: valid! but I'm looking for the point and I'm not seeing it #anyway since the last ask I responded with misremembered info I've blocked it from being reblogged #fuck I love that feature #jason todd #bruce wayne #batman #utrh #batfam #dc #gail speaks #ask #anonymous #jason todd my beloved #jt

[baticorngirl]

I love how Shadow War is progressively making less and less sense.

Okay but why? He's been away from the Lazarus Pits for like, a year at the absolute most. Probably less, I'm not sure. But either way, definitely not enough to even BEGIN to erase the previous insanity it's given him.

Rightttt.... this. Because Damian has not been changing for the better for the last three years, and this definitely isn't just only happening now because in this case it gives Damian more angst. Ugh. And that isn't even considering the fact that, at the end of the day, Ra's THINKS that by killing everyone, he's the one doing good, not Bruce, who is supposedly indirectly destroying the earth by stopping them. Damian stopping killings, in his eyes, would be destroying the earth as well. It's DEFINITELY not going to inspire him, at least on its own. He'd need something else to actually make him realize that what he was doing was wrong in the first place, and then maybe Damian could inspire him to change.

He's just as much a villain with good intentions as people like Poison Ivy.... but after Respawn's ridiculously OOC backstory, I'm not exactly surprised that this writer doesn't understand that.

I mean... if he gives you a decent enough reason to... yeah your Pre-Morrison self would probably at least consider doing what he tells you.

God, why is Talia acting so cold to not just Bruce but EVERYONE... Bruce is supposed to be the edgy one here, not her lol.

Okay so basically he has no reason at all to trust you. I don't care what weird crap is going on with your genes, you two still hate each other. That's not how genes, hatred, or trust works.

Also, the Fandom has enough of an issue thinking Tallant and Ibn are the same as Damian just because they're brothers, can we not have actual CANON do this for a half-brother he only met like a month ago?

Look, I know I'm a Talia fan so I may be kind of biased, but why the heck is Talia being blamed? I thought you two literally stated a couple seconds ago that she had no involvement whatsoever. Is this because Respawn wouldn't have been created if she would've let Damian get tortured instead? Because if so, just.... Wow. I would say that Slade is insane, but I'm pretty sure considering he's a murderer we kinda already knew that, but.... the writer is definitely portraying this as correct, so I think he might be a little out of it too to be honest (not that I'm necessarily surprised about that, either).

She's no more at fault than Slade is, and I stand by that.

Also, they still haven't explained why Ra's wouldn't just use anesthesia. It's completely possible that, assuming he was careful, Talia would've allowed it on Damian then. It's way easier, AND less sadistic. Both of which Ra's would usually be pleased by if he's characterized correctly.

Although actually, this experiment specifically... okay fine, that probably can't be done "carefully". But he has a million other people he could do it on instead! Creating an entire clone is super unnecessary. Like his gazillion super loyal assassins, for example?

All I can really say at this point is that I'm glad it wasn't torture, because they're screwed up Talia's characterization enough as it is.

Then why did you literally threaten Deathstroke again only a few panels ago.... Damian, what are you even trying to achieve at this point?

Also, there's like a 99% chance Respawn and you have different lying techniques. He's just your half-brother, who you weren't even raised with. That means a grand total of nothing.

#damian wayne #talia al ghul #batman #bruce wayne #slade wilson #deathstroke #ra's al ghul #al ghul family #batman comics #dc #dc comics #robin 2021 #deathstroke inc #shadow war #deathstroke inc. spoilers #robin spoilers #shadow war spoilers #dc shadow war #dc spoilers #anti respawn #anti joshua williamson #tw mentions of murder #tw torture #baticorn talks

[hintofelation99]

Jason Chaperons Damian's Field Trip

Damian and Jason in the Batcave trying to murder each other

Jason: I'm going to kill you demon brat!

Damian: Ha! I'd like to see you try Todd!

Fighting continues for the next two days

Bruce: That's it! Jason, Damian, no more fighting. You two are going to bond even if it kills you!

Jason: Again?

Bruce: Not the time Jason!

Damian, rolling his eyes: And how exactly do you expect me to bond with this barbarian?

Bruce: A trip to the art museum.

Damian and Jason look confused.

Bruce: Damian's class is going to the Gotham art museum next Friday. I was going to chaperon, but since you both decided to try and stab each other in public I have some PR matters to attend to. So, Jason will chaperon.

Damian: That is absolutely ridiculous father. Is it not enough that I am already forced to see subpar art with snot nosed brats? Now I have to take the zombie?!

Jason: Watch it brat!

Damian: Tt

Jason and Damian glare at each other.

Bruce: No, your brother is taking you to see world renowned art with your peers.

Jason: C'mon Bruce, world renowned? It's the Gotham art museum.

Bruce, glaring: Fine. Country renowned.

Jason raises his eyebrows.

Bruce: Don't push it. I'll call the school and let them know that you're taking my place.

--> The Next Friday <--

Jason: Damian! Get your ass down here!

Damian: I am right beside you Todd.

Jason: Where's your tie? And your blazer? Where's your backpack?

Damian: Calm down Todd. I have never been late for school and I do not plan to deviate from that today.

Jason: Whatever. Just be ready in the next five minutes, I want to get coffee first and we are not going to be late.

Damian: Pennyworth has already brewed a pot of that infernal drink.

Jason: And Tim has already called dibs on the entire pot. That kid is scrawny, but when it comes to coffee he's vicious.

Damian: Tt.

-------

Damian: STOP THE CAR RIGHT NOW TODD!

Tires screech as Jason whips into a parallel parking spot in front of the school. Damian's entire class watches this happen. They look terrified.

Damian, jumping out of the car, cursing in Arabic: Are you trying to murder me?!

Jason, casually getting out of the car with a Frappuccino, shrugs: I told you we wouldn't be late.

Damian: WE ARE THIRTY MINUTES LATE!!

Jason, shrugs: Oops.

-------

Teacher: Ok class! This is Jason Todd, he is Damian's older brother and he will be helping out on the field trip today. I expect you all to be on your best behavior today! Now Mr. Todd, would you like to tell us a little about yourself?

Jason, feet on a desk not paying attention, glaring at Damian.

Teacher: Mr. Todd?

Jason chokes on Frappuccino, stands up.

Jason: Uh, yeah, sure. Um, my name is Jason Todd, feel free to just call me Jason. Uh, what else?

Teacher: Maybe give us a fun fact about yourself?

Jason: Sure, sure. Uh I recently spent some time down under.

Teacher: Oh, in Australia?

Jason: Yeah, let's go with that.

Damian facepalms

-------

On the bus, kids screaming and throwing things at each other. Damian and Jason sit at the front near Damian's teacher. Jason has his eyes closed and looks tense.

Teacher: Uh, Mr. Todd? Jason? Are you alright?

Jason: Just peachy.

Damian: Pull it together Todd. You are embarrassing me.

Jason: Listen demon spawn, I'm trying to keep it together and not maim a rich brat. So why don't you shut up.

Damian: Tt. Everyone knows you are too cowardly to maim a child. However, I do admit that the loud and confined environment could cause stress... Here. Take these.

Damian hands Jason headphones. Jason looks confused.

Damian: Grayson claims that music can have a calming affect.

Jason: ...Thanks brat.

-------

Teacher: Ok class we are here! Remember to stick with your groups. Group one is with me. Group two is with Mrs. Smith. And group three is with Jason.

Kids break into groups, each group has seven kids.

Jason: Group three over here!

Damian rolls his eyes as the other six kids approach.

Jason: Be nice. Ok kiddos, we're starting at the uh American Rural Avant Garde exhibit. What the fuck is that crap?

Teacher: Oh my! Um, Mr. Todd. We do not encourage such strong language.

Jason: Wha- oh! You mean crap, so teach' that's my bad.

Teacher: Uh, no I uh-

Jason: Anyway c'mon demons let's go look at shitty art.

Teacher, chanting under their breath: The Wayne's donate a lot of money. The Wayne's donate a lot of money.

-------

In the cubism section.

Kid 1: Mr. Todd! When's lunch?

Jason: Call me Jason kid, and it's only ten? Lunch isn't until one.

Kid 2: But I'm hungry!

Kid 3: And this is boring!

Jason: It's not that bad, look at this thing! It's- oh shit is that a Picasso?

Kid 4: Uh, yeah?

Jason: Fuck that asshole, let's go get ice cream.

Damian: Todd! That is not in the schedule, we can not skip a section just because you dislike the artist!

Jason: See, that's were you're wrong baby bird. I'm in charge and I say that Picasso is an asshole and we're skipping his shit.

Damian: We are already in trouble with father, if we exhibit bad behavior he might force us to spend more time together.

Jason: Look kid, Bruce sent me here because he wants us to bond. The greatest form of bonding is breaking rules and skipping school. So, really, by skipping we're actually doing what he wants.

Damian: Tt. I suppose that sounds accurate.

-------

Jason: Time for lunch kiddos.

Kid 2: But we just finished our ice cream break?

Jason: No, we just finished the seeing the museums second floor. Right?

Kid 6: No we-

Jason: No no, we finished the second floor. The whole ice cream thing, that's our little secret. Right?

Kids: Ohhhhh

Jason: Now you're getting it!

-------

Damian glares at his lunch

Jason: What's wrong kiddo?

Damian: Tt. It appears that I might have, accidentally, taken Drake's lunch instead of my own.

Jason: And? What's the problem?

Damian: Drake, packed that abomination that he calls a sandwich.

Jason: Oh, god. He packed a peanut butter pepperoni sandwich again?

Damian, looking at the lunch with complete disgust: Yes.

Jason: Here, take my PB&J.

Damian: ...

Jason: Timbits taste in sandwich's is a crime against humanity. But I'm not vegan, so if worst comes to worst I'll eat it.

Damian: ...Thank you Todd. I- I did not think you cared about my dietary choices.

Jason: Just because we fight sometimes doesn't mean I won't have your back kid. Yeah, I guess being vegan is a choice, but it's a choice that I'll always support.

Damian quickly hugs Jason before taking his sandwich and pretending nothing happened.

Damian: I appreciate the support. Thank you, brother.

Jason: No problem baby bird.

-------

Jason: So, we have an hour before we have to get back on the bus. And, uh- oh shit! Ok, so apparently we had an assignment. Uh, the instructions say to draw your favorite work and write why you like it. What the fuck kind of bullshit assignment is that?

Jason: Uh, ok we're doing a speed draw. Everyone just pull up your favorite work on the museum website and try your best.

--> 40 Minutes Later <--

Jason: Ok, hand me your sheets and let's head to the bus.

Damian, hands his assignment in.

Jason: Whoa, huh.

Damian, looking nervous: What Todd?

Jason: Nothing, just this is a really good drawing kid.

Damian blushes: Of course it is.

Jason smiles and ruffles Damian's hair: Good job brat.

Damian smiles and heads to the bus

------

Both in the car, about to drive back to the manor.

Jason: You know, I actually sorta had fun today.

Damian: Your presence was... enjoyable.

Jason: We're never telling that to Bruce, right?

Damian: Obviously, if father thinks that his plan worked he will be completely insufferable.

Jason: Agreed. Y'know, sometimes field trips go long.

Damian: Oh?

Jason: Yeah, I mean, it wouldn't be too weird if we were an hour or so late getting home.

Damian: If we were to be late getting home, how would we spend that time?

Jason: There's a cool arcade that should be open right now.

Damian: I do not believe that I have ever been to an arcade.

Jason: Well, that needs to be fixed right now. You down baby bird?

Damian: I- uh I am down, is that the correct usage of the term?

Jason: Hell yeah.

---------------------------------------------------

Based on this headcanon.

#also the peanut butter pepperoni sandwich is curtesy of my brother #he got dared to eat one in high school and decided he liked it #his wife was v disappointed when she realized he still eats them #batman #bruce wayne #incorrect batfam quotes #damian wayne #robin #jason todd #red hood #field trips #brotherly bonding #batbros #mypost

[stxleslyds]

MY TOUGHTS ON PART THREE OF RED HOOD BY CHIP ZDARSKY :)

A DC RENDITION OF THE SONG “MOTHER KNOWS BEST” FROM TANGLED.

Here I will leave the links to my reviews of Part 1 and Part 2

Well, here we are, three issues in this story of only six parts and i still cant tell if i like it or not. What i know for sure tho is that Zdarsky never read any Red Hood books, i had my suspicions but now i am at least 95% sure.

This Jason has been nerfed. We had a perfectly balanced Jason back in 2005 he was smart, skilled, confident and strategic. Then from 2011 to 2020 (let’s put the fact that Lobdell is trash aside for a moment) Jason was skilled, he had the whole “chosen one” thing going on with the all-castle, and in some moments you could even see him being quick witted and confident. But now in this first half of this story he is extremely insecure, his skill set and expertise is barely there and is presented as just reckless. 

The other day i was talking about how DC treats Jason, how they just can’t decide on who he is, what motivates him or what he wants. His personality is a whole ass mess, it was fine in 2005 and 2010 when Winick wrote him but then Lobdell from years 2011 to 2020 just couldn't decide what he wanted to do with Jason or his relationship with Batman and his rules. After Lobdell finally left Jason was passed around people who either only read Lobdell's work, or didn't read anything from him or didn't take into account Jason's life because their book was set in a future that may never happen. 

What i am trying to say is that Jason doesn't have a personality, and writers don't really add things to the Jason that we “know”, what they do is start his story from zero over and over again. There is no consistency to Jason's character and while you could argue that maybe this new start could be the definite version of Jason Todd/Red Hood i will point out that this nerfed version of him is a major disservice to the character that he was when he was brought back to DC.

It’s simply not nice. 

And in this particular issue the “Jason isn't that good at this whole vigilante gig” is even more pushed because of the whole “batman knows best” bullshit. I am not getting this (anthologies) book with a Red Hood story just for Batman to come in and be like “I am actually good at this job, you know nothing AND i have the moral high-ground”, this is NOT it.

If you are reading a Red Hood story chances are that you will be interested in Red Hood not Batman. 

Oh one more thing, Jason was an excellent Robin. He was kind, smart and skilled. I liked the flashbacks in UtRH because it showed Jason being all that but he also understood a couple of things about the kind of criminals that Gotham had, your common thug is easily scared of the concept of Batman but the dress-ups knew that no matter what they did the Bat would never kill them, that’s what Jason thought about criminals there.

This Robin Jason is treated rather poorly by Zdarsky at times, he feels insecure and inferior to Dick but he is also dismissive of him and the Robin mantle in the first issue, now in this one he is shown as way too reckless (which is kinda bad because it feeds into DCs favorite trope of “Jason’s death was Jason’s fault”) and his stance on “low level” criminals is weird, like it was made clear that drug related criminals are Jason’s biggest issue, thieves were not. 

Those are my general thoughts on this issue and the current state of Jason’s characterization. I have some panels from this issue that i want to talk about in more depth tho, so here we go. 

The issue stars were we left off once more, Tyler defends Jason and when Batman asks who he is Tyler says that he is the Blue Hood, that was really sweet of him, that child is adorable and he needs to be protected. 

Once the Bat distracts Tyler Jason tells the Bat that the man he killed was Tyler’s dad. 

There are a couple of things i want to point out from these panels, Jason feels incredibly guilty, not about killing Andy but about leaving Tyler in a situation that is similar to the one he was left in when his own mother died. He still believes that Andy was not a good man and deserved to be dead, after all he was drugging his own son and was the reason Tyler’s mom overdosed and is now in the hospital. It just hits incredibly close to home for Jason and i understand completely. 

The other thing i want to point out is that Jason says “I know your rules. No killing in Gotham” so, this is (to me) confirmation that Jason hasn’t killed in a long time and that he has been sticking to the Bat's rules (at least in Gotham). Andy (a drug-dealer) is the only person that Jason has killed since the events of UtRH (that are apparently canon in this story because it was mentioned in the first issue). 

Following this conversation the Bat says that he will take care of Tyler’s mother (yikes, i really thought in my last post that Jason was the one who would have tried to get her the help she needed, to me it seems more appropriate if Jason does it given that this is his story but what do I know) 

This is where this Red Hood story transforms into the Batman show.

Not only will Bruce take care of Tyler's mom but he will clean up the mess and shut down the making of the drug all by himself. Jason tells him that he will do it but the Bat tells Jason that if he wants to do it they will have to do it together because there is no way he is letting Jason out of his sight, he made a mess!

Yes, nothing like making the lead character look incompetent at his job. Love that for Jason.

Before the team up starts Batman and Red Hood go to Leslie's place to leave Tyler with her. This is a good moment only because there is a dog involved, well…Tyler, Jason and a dog are involved, best panel in the whole issue? I think yes.

Maybe I have a couple more panels that are my favs in this issue, here they are, a lil bit of positivity in this extra bitter post.

Now I will be honest, I hate Batman (Bruce’s Batman, love Dick Bats he was the MVP) so him saying that he is helping a Robin makes me want to shoot him. You are not helping; you are overtaking, as you do. Never a team player, the Batgod must always be the center of the show.

Back in the new cave Bruce talks to Jason about the drug and who he thinks might be behind it's production. He also makes sure to let Jason know that he is very smart and might be the only person outside of Crane's circle that knows how analyze a very unstable compound…weird flex but okay. He also teases Jason about his detective skills. Yay.

Flashback time! Get ready!

Robin Jason and Batman are at a crime scene and Jason doesn’t seem to be in the mood to play CSI: Gotham with Bruce.

At one moment Jason says “and then we will stomp the guy who did this” (“this” being murder), which makes Jim Gordon (who came to see if batman was done playing Sherlock Holmes) uncomfortable, so Batman tells Jason to wait for him. As Jason is going he sees someone acting suspicious.

Back to present day Batman and Red Hood are visiting the woman that created the compound that makes Fear Gas, the interrogation starts well but because this is the Batman show and Jason is bad at reading people and asking questions we have a scene that shows Jason being a bit too much.

I honestly thought that the first question was fair, but then after they leave the office they were in Batman basically goes on a rant about the things that Jason missed.

Ok, I get it Batman = good vigilante. Red Hood = Incompetent.

Zdarsky is honestly trying to make us believe that Jason hasn’t picked up any of those things, in his years as Robin with Batman AND Nightwing? They both taught him, there is no way Jason doesn’t know the basics of how to read people. Also do you guys remember Jason in UtRH and Lost Days? That guy read people perfectly, how is UtRH canon in this story, did Jason lose his skills in the explosion when he blew up the Joker?

As if that wasn’t enough Batman calls Red Hood reckless after they don’t agree on what to do next.

To this I say the following: Never again make me believe that Jason will willingly work with Batman. They don’t work together and neither are willing to meet each other halfway, even less let the other lead. This makes the idea of Jason following the Bat’s rules and him being part of the “Batfamily” the joke that it actually is.

They don’t work well together anymore; bring duality back to Gotham 2021.

Back in the past where the previous flashback is resumed we have Jim telling Batman that the new Robin seems a bit too rough around the edges. Did Jim ever meet Dick as Robin? I mean, don’t get me wrong, Dick was a sweetheart but he also beat criminals alongside batman every night. It just doesn’t feel like what Jason said was that much of a violent statement or anything, maybe I just don’t get it.

But don’t worry if you don’t get it, because we are shown Robin Jason going after that suspicious man, he is beating him asking if he knows anything about the murder or what exactly he was doing so close to the crime scene when Batman arrives. Through Batman we are told that that man was no longer a criminal, to which Jason says this, “…The guy is a jewel thief! He will always be a thief” and Batman responds “I refuse to believe that. Didn’t I meet you in the middle of stealing the Batmobile’s tires?”

I can’t believe Bruce went full “It’s over Jason. I have the moral high ground” on Robin Jason.

I mean Jason is OOC, we know this, but he has to be that way in order to make Batman look better when compared to a child. DC hates Jason Todd #Confirmed.

It kinda reminds me of that thing DC does with Dick and Barbara, Dick is skilled and smart as long as Barbara isn’t in the room, if she is then Dick will forget to check if there is someone inside his apartment and then be thrown across the room by her and then be told that he sucks at putting security in his living space.

Moving on...back to the present one last time Jason is interrogating a man while he dangles him from the edge of a building (did Dick teach him that? I bet he did.) After getting some information he calls Oracle so he can make sure that the place he is going to is safe. Oracle tells him the she will help him but she did not like the fact that the last time she helped him someone ended up dead.

Now, fair warning, Barbara and Jason big NO for me and after Geoff Johns and his antics in Three Jokers I have zero love for their “team-ups”.

Jason says this, 

Believing in him? Excuse me? Chonky, baby, she only helped you find a building.

All I can do at this point is pray to whichever god or whoever hears that this does not lead to Jason pinning for Barbara. We don’t need it (Barbara doesnt need it), I might be overreacting, I hope I am, but nobody wants that kind of drama right now, thanks.

When he arrives to the place he was looking for I think everyone can tell that it’s a trap, everyone but Jason apparently. 

How on earth does Jason not realize it’s a trap up until it’s too late? Are you joking? Is this a Red Hood story? Are we really doing this? Just how incompetent is Jason in Zdarsky’s eyes?

Freeze…is it Freeze? I don’t care but he is there, he freezes Jason and that’s the end of the issue.

Listen, I wish I could say that this is the worst Jason has been treated and that this book is horrible, I wish but I can’t. I can’t do it because this isn’t the worst characterization or book of Jason, this is still a pretty good story, could it be better? Yes.

I mean this story is written by someone who obviously doesn’t know Jason and that sucks but it still isnt the worst characterization and it messes me up. Three Jokers was worse than this, certain plot decisions in Future State: Red Hood were worse than this (in my opinion) and Lobdell’s New52 RHatO was pure trash (that is the worst book, just horrible please dont read it). 

I am saying this only to make it clear that even tho this issue was painful (mostly if you don’t like Batman) I still have hope that it can turn out to be good. I cant help it, i want and need this story to be good and there is still time for it to get better. 

Alright thats all i have to say, let me know what you thought about this issue and my review, bye!

#jason todd #red hood #batman urban legends #urban legends red hood #dc comics #red hood outlaw #robin jason todd

[ursie]

I saw the worst take on The Batman(well that's a lie, there's definitely worse takes, but this one was annoying enough to stick in my mind)

It was specifically a take from a leftist youtuber(yes. It was a white man) and while it was not entirely negative (like he thought the movie was better than other batman movies and was glad to wasn't alt-right leaning propaganda. Overall I think he said he liked it) he WAS of the opinion that it was liberal propaganda

He thought that the movie was saying the current system of government was fine, and that the system isn't broken. That the mayor lady being poc and wanting to better Gotham was saying that the system is fine it just needs good politicians

He was right abt one thing, that the movie somewhat involved power fantasy with Bruce going about getting revenge on low rank villians and eventually discovering that it wasn't random gangs that killed his parents and are at the root of the problem it's widespread corruption and powerful men exploiting faults in the system. That Bruce isn't some unflinching paradigm of violence, that he gets hurt and sometimes is wrong

But specific the part that bugged me is how he represented the new mayor, because by god did he have the most insufferable take

The movie is a first step. That's the point. It's on the path to healing, Bruce just figured out the difference between justice and revenge, he just figured out what the fuck classism is, he just found out that the corruption isn't poor people, it's exploitation. No there wasn't widespread systemic upheaval because that doesn't fucking happen in a week. This is a first step. The mayor being a progressive woman if color isn't justifying the systems in place, the movie outright critiques the systems that allowed the corruption to happen in the first place. The mayor lady does not represent the status quo in a fancy hat, she represents a promise for a better future, she is there to say that this isn't the end, that this city isn't irreparable

Furthermore he said that the movie didn't hold cops accountable, which I admit it could hav focused more on how that system is broken but I do disagree with his overall view on that front. The film's opening lines are of the old mayor arguing for more policing and a war on drugs and he's wrong! The whole must is manufactured and there to give some people prestige while fucking over victims and innocents. The film explicitly states that he is wrong, hell the DA proves that the justice system is injust!

This guy's take just really bothered me because what did he expect? Did he want the movie to be explicitly communist? Come in dude that's probably not gonna happen in a mainstream movie like this(and his insistence on a black woman getting elected justifies the system... It's weird. Like tf did he want her to do? Stage a revolution? The film takes place over a few weeks/month tops, get a grip)

There was even more to his video but I think this is long enough already lol. Like I'm not saying the movie was perfect, but I am saying some of his criticism comes off as bad-faith

No no I totally understand I think people need to understand that while we want a different status quo and want to work towards a better one we still like. Live in the world we’re in and need to fight for short term victories as well. Like I’m not pro Biden but a republican in power is worse to me in the immediate due to the fact they personally want me to die and not have healthcare. So while voting isn’t a great solution it’s better than nothing and you can argue for systematic change and short term change at the same time. So like. Applying that nuance to films (which will never be like. Socialist propaganda I’m sorry it’s just not gonna happen) the film can say hey the system is bad but she’s the first step in making it better and B as a character is going the system failed and I am picking up where it failed and trying to help not because I think the system is gonna change but because I think it’s the only right thing to do. I think people forget what a compassionate character B is. He’s not trying or expecting everything to change because that’s not the world he lives in but because he loves Gotham, and it’s people, because everyone deserves to be saved, he’s going to save them anyway everyday. The point is that Gotham is damned and B is going to push that boulder up the hill everyday nonetheless because there’s nothing else he would rather do-because someone needs to do it-because everyone in Gotham deserves someone fighting for them.

#I kinda went off on a tangent but like in summary the entire point is B is always against a corrupt system like. #of course they didn’t cure corruption in the 1st movie #like. that’s not the world they exist in #asks #anon #long post #ask to tag #tw politics

[coffeestainedcamera]

Batman (the spoiler-laden talk)

This Saturday, friends and I watched it at a local theater and then went to a Nando's next door. Never had anything of theirs before, but those chicken skewers and fries are good, I can see the hype. In terms of actual movie talk, it's under the cut.

I was told this was a noir detective story, but it definitely owes a lot to horror films as well and indeed, Matt Reeves has some experience on them, given his Cloverfield experience. It would be wrong not to have horror influences in a Gotham story, between the fact that you can't spell the town name without "Goth" and the fact that some of Batman's rogues seemingly owe a lot to the genre. It is most blatant with Joker's killer clown schtick, but we also had a number of creature feature moments and Ivy possibly drawing some inspiration from vampires. Riddler's turn from mob adjacency in the comics to a serial killer originally felt off, but Paul Dano's portrayal was perfect.

Part of this Riddler's intimidation factor was in the unpredictability factor of Dano's take. You don't know when he'll be screaming, but his calm state is so polite and vaguely childish. That sharply contrasts with the violence his character inflicts on people who are admittedly horrible but also have relatives that aren't knowingly in on their corruption. It works, even with the cut-aways from the worst of it to avoid the R rating. Honestly, letting my brain fill in the blanks made it even more horrifying. Also, some excellent mouth breathing there.

I think focusing on that was the sound design decision that made his introduction so terrifying. There is one guy doing mundane things at home, and just dead silence for a while. Then, I hear the mouth breathing from the theater speakers. Nothing yet, but he is not alone, so where's the source? Then, something stirs in the shadows and next thing we see is him getting jumped with the carpet tool. I nearly dropped my water bottle at that point.

His character's radicalization of only 500 people online is also pretty terrifying. Sure, he isn't a mega influencer crank like Joe Rogan. But there were still followers rabid enough to literally dress up as him and shoot people after he blows up an entire seawall to trap them in a cramped space. Given the potential shooting scare we had in high school, I was actually sweating a little at that part. It was also a major turning moment for this movie's Bruce Wayne, coming to think of it.

Robert Pattison's take on Bruce is a mess of a human being. He speaks in a very quiet and monotone manner and doesn't really emote until later in the film, which makes sense with his nocturnal loner ways. In the bat gear, it is all about intimidation, as there's a note of gravel to the few words he speaks at the crime scenes. It goes away during Bruce's more emotionally open moments with Selina, and I haven't really noticed it during the Alfred scenes. Perhaps it is a sign of trust, even when they are not on good terms in the beginning. Also nice to see the writers portray the character as very fallible, between his failure to notice the mob money swirling in the revitalization project and not always getting riddles right.

Gradually, emotion begins to sneak into the performance. At first, just the increasingly obvious strain as he keeps trying his darndest to catch Riddler. Then some rage. And then something resembling emotional availability, as we see with his farewell to Selina and the moment when Bruce takes Alfred's hand.

I also loved Kravitz's portrayal of Selina, and wish she got more screentime. Part of it was just the fact that I like the character, but I also just think that her performance had range here. I think my favorite scene was the one where her character finally confronts her father. It starts off with quiet rage, as Selina is about to descend on the man who killed Annika, then a "naive girl" portrayal that we as an audience can see through, and all of that rage exploding when she is alone with him. It's such a drastic difference from when we see her calming down Annika and talking about taking in strays.

The arc where she chases Annika is also one of my favorite parts of the movie, as it first and foremost her own criminal drama (as seen when she tells Bruce to sod off in the club sting and chooses to chase after her lead, rather than a Riddler one). We see her character grow increasingly desperate to find her, and in the process learn more about Gotham's mob scene. Additionally, while it at first doesn't seem directly relevant, the tie before Falcone, Waynes, and Riddler's dirt on Thomas Wayne was an interesting plot twist.

Also vaguely obsessed with the costume design decisions here. Like, this portrayal of Selina is just trying to survive and probably steals for it. It makes sense that her mask is literally just a modified balaclava. The Batman suit features likely off-the-rack combat boots, as it is year two. Plus, a more traditional look like from the King/Janin era would look out of place in a movie that blatantly owes a lot to horror flicks. Riddler's mask is blatantly homemade and reminds me of slasher villains.

So, in short, I loved this to bits. Like, there were no weak links in the cast and the writing is there for them. As a fan of the more horror-adjacent portrayals of Gotham, the wait for a sequel will be a bit of a pain. In the meantime, I really need to see Lighthouse and Kimi.

#batman #dc comics #long reads #media analysis #comics #dceu #dc movies

[epermochi]

It's so tiresome these discussions about Talia on twitter, I saw one person say that there is no redemption for her because according to the person "Talia was the bad guy from the beginning" and that fans should be more concerned about the fact that the character is stereotypical and that she doesn't need to be a moral role model (as if any of these simpletons who talk shit know who Talia really is, but that's just a thought of mine). The fact that is a Mena person (the op who posted) is justification enough for how she is portrayed, which is somewhat ironic since the op is a D*mi@n stan who sees nothing wrong with M*rrison's writing.

i genuinely believe the people who say talia has always been bad either never read any of her classic stories OR they read it with a bias. for example, i've seen people whose first introduction to the character was morrison's retcon say that in tec 411, her debut issue, she's just pretending to be shaken by darrk's death to manipulate bruce into believing she was a good person even though that clearly wasn't the case as classic talia wasn't a killer or an assassin. the only time she wanted to kill was when the people she cared about got hurt (i remember there was an issue where she thought ra's was killed) and she wanted to avenge them.

most damian stans only care about talia as long as she serves some purpose for damian, mainly wrt damian's appearance and angst level. from what I've seen most of them are fine with throwing talia and ra's under the bus as long as damian isn't pulled along with them into the orientalist mess morrison created, from which damian to some degree got away from when he became robin—a development that also coincides with artists beginning to whitewash him into a bruce jr. so while most damian fans love to complain about his appearance for example, at the same time they're totally blind to how it's linked to the orientalist narrative that created him and which to this day influences his writing (see e.g. WFA).

also just because someone is MENA, it doesn't mean they can't be racist or they can't enjoy racist writings. again, damian fans are a really good example of how poc might also eat up white saviorism just as much as white people do.

#btw im not really sure who you are referring to in the ask #I'm just speaking in general #by whitewashing i don't really mean just his skin tone because obviously damian was introduced with a light skin tone #but his facial features were characteristically asian #but when he has become batman's sidekick his features has started to resemble bruce's a lot more

[umbylievable]

More details on my ridiculous gay rich joker au:

He won the publishers' clearing house sweepstakes. There was an extensive investigation undertaken to make sure he hadn't cheated. In fact he had not and just entered because he woke up one day and thought "wouldn't it be so HILARIOUS if I won?" and it turns out he was right

Initially he pops up at the wayne manor just to let bruce wayne know that HE KNOWS he's batman because he thinks it'll annoy him. It does, at first, but as bruce wayne gets accustomed to his nonsensical visits he had to get more creative with his "ruin batman's life" plans

The final of said plans is to make bruce fall in love with him and THEN get a marriage proposal and THEN on the eve of their wedding seduce bruce's best friend clark kent and allow bruce to catch them in the act thereby BREAKING HIS HEART and RUINING HIS FRIENDSHIP!! Obviously it never actually comes to fruition because a) turns out being loved is nice and b) clark can't stand him.

He's gnc just for the lulz bc it makes these boring gotham socialites uncomfortable

He learns how to sew just to make increasingly ridiculous avant garde "ACAB" and "FUCK 12" pieces to wear to fancy gotham galas where he knows he'll be photographed. This, predictably, makes him a target of corrupt police violence and forces bruce to double down on his protection

He tries at least ten times to tag along w Batman as his new Robin but he is permanently grounded after trying to shoot firefly with a supersoaker full of paint thinner and nearly blowing up a city block

Later in their relationship, the joker decides that sitting at home doing nothing is not at all fun BUT sitting at wayne manor with alfred dressed like a 50s housewife and pretending to film a cooking show while dumping soap powder into a mixing bowl is very fun, especially when the stove catches on fire and alfred has to call the fire department

Naturally alfred hates him, ofc

Although in this au the Joker isn't the one who "killed" jason todd, Jason still doesn't come over to visit because he thinks bruce's entire prison abolitionist thing is bleeding heart liberal bullshit and he wants to beat the joker to death with a tire iron

Dick on the other hand is the most affable about the whole thing and even refers to him as Countess and sometimes he and Barbara (she's still disabled in this au but it's from an accident and not that gross misogynist bullshit the canon likes to tout) come over to hang out with him so Alfred can take a break from supervising him

The Joker's never actually had a stable home life or friends and family like this so he actually has a wonderful time just doing normal domestic shit like trying to make pasta or talking on the phone while watching the same television show or violently beating dust out of the rugs or making grocery lists

He takes his coffee with however much sugar it takes to make it thick like a syrup which he then dunks various types of cookies in, his favorite being funfetti (of course)

Definitely buys various drag queen-esque over the top wigs to wear to events and also just to wear while sitting in bruce's plushest chair drinking wine out of a soup bowl

Eventually he and bruce develop this cute little couples thing where when bruce is looking grumpy, he says "looks like you need a dose of my new and improved joker venom!!" and then pretends to stick him with a needle while making a ridiculous sound effect and no matter what's wrong it always tickles bruce enough to make him smile.

When it became clear he and bruce were dating, damian asked the joker if he expected him to call him dad and the joker was like "I would actually prefer not to be perceived batsy jr" and so for like three years damian literally pretends he doesn't exist and it absolutely delights him. What a commitment to a joke. What a great kid.

#i realize none of you asked and thats exactly why im providing

[kate-read-that]

Everyone knows there's two groups in Scott's town: bikers and players. On one hand, bikers are a mess to be around: always looking for trouble, making noise, partying all over the city.... a mess. Th issue is, most have good grades and know enough about machines and motors and such to give classes to the mechanics from town.

On the other hand, players are nice looking, kind hearted, smart boys that never make a fuss and are always there to help the community however they can. Most are football players, runners and basketball players or all of those at the same time. They're a charm to be around, if you're lucky enough to get in their circle.

"Welcome to Pop's, please sit wherever, its early yet" says Peter to his friends, careful to keep equilibrium on his rollers.

"Thanks Mr, we'll take the same table we usually do" Steve laughs and goes sit at their usual table with the rest.

Serving the table next to them, pretty blond looks at Peter with adoration.

"Is Claire still trying to get you to ask her out, Peter" MJ asks, fully knowing the answer already. Peter whines.

"I've tried to discourage her in a million ways! I'm bi, but I'm not interested in her, I dont know why she doesnt get it!"

"Man shes hot and funny, what is there not to be interested about?" Sam asks, one broe arched in disbelief.

"If you like her, ask her out! That'll get her off me" Peter begs while writing down their orders, even thought theres no need.

They always order the same food and wait until Peter finishes his turn to go so something around the city, and tonight's no exception, until new company arrives.

The door opens to Tony S., major douchebag of the city, and his friends, the major dumbasses, Nat, Clint and Bucky B. Peter's friends instantly look awkward and pissed, and the other persons in the diner look at Tony's and his friends with dread. Who know what they might be up to. The fact that they cant be thrown off high school because his amazing grades pisses off a lot of people.

Peter swallows and calms himself. He hopes Tony wont cause problems in the diner, because that's the last thing he needs and tmhe really doesnt want to kick anyone out. Besides, he isn't sure how he would kick them out if he had to.

Despite his nervousness, he rolls to them and smiles politely: " Welcome to Pop's, please sit wherever, today is not as full"

"What about you sit on my lap, darling?" Tony claimed he was bi a long time ago; more than claimed, he was caught having sex with some guy under the major's statue. Peter counts to five so he doesnt reply to that.

"Choose whatever table you want, I'll go serve you right now" he then turns around to give the cooker his friends orders, hoping he doesnt look too startled.

Tony usually mocks them in high school, and they mock right back, but he has never said anything sexual to him. It's strange, thinking of him that way, like someone you can have sex with. Peter shakes his head and rolls back to Tony's table.

Nat and Clint are too busy signaling at each other to notice he's there, and Bucky is checking something on the other side of the diner. Peter is too shy to say something when no one is paying attention, so he waits until Tony tells his friends to shut up and order already because they're making Parker loose his time.

Peter looks at him surprised, but smiles and starts taking notes. Clint has a little bit problem to order, because his deaf and his parents couldnt teach him to talk until he got in school, but he manages. Peter likes Clint, he's nice and seems a good person, but he doesnt understand why he mixes with the rest.

Nat is adopted and she's always in trouble for this thing or the other, she's always quiet but when she talks is like she's always trying to test you, somehow. Bruce had to give her math classes for a while and he said she's actually not that bad, but she still scares Peter.

Buckys parents are cool, they let him leave alone, which sounds incredible, but hes always argues with teachers and missing class, and hes always inappropriate and rude to people.

And Tony's parents are as rich as it gets, but they like to live away from big cities so they're here until tony graduates. Peter doesn't know much about them, except that they no longer pick Tony up when he gets arrested so one of the members of their staff does it. His uncle Sam is a cop, and he says theres nothing sadder than parents that dont care about his son enough to get mad at him.

So Peter tries to be kind to them, but it's so hard when all they do is mock him and his friends. Besides, Tony always has the expression, like he's to good for everyone else! It drives Peter mad.

"I'm going to have the Burguer 6, with chips and a piece of that ass" Tony pretends to read seriously from the menu, but his friends dont laugh. Peter's tired of the jokes, but he needs the job and Tony is not going to ruin this for him.

"Sure thing, dude, maybe when hell freezes. What else?" The others do laugh this time, to Peter's confusion, and order their meals.

.....

"Dude he absolutely hates you" Bucky seems to find this hilarious, even though hes Tony's best friend and he should support him, dammit!

"Of course he had to wear shorts, not like I could keep my mind straight or something" Tony moans, watching Peter roll away like the cute doll he is.

"You're like an animal dude" Clint says, little sloppy but understandable.

"Pathetic" Adds Nat, as if Tony needed confirmation of the screw up.

"And besides, since when is your mind straight?" Bucky laughs at his own joke, like the idiot he is, Tony thinks, while checking the other side of the diner again.

"At least I dont stalk Rogers from here like some kind of pervert" Tony smiles wide at Bucky's affronted face, blushing and frowning. "Whatever".

"Dude, just tell him you're into him and ask him on a date, this suave shit is not your style" Clint signs, too tired to try and talk. Tony signs back "Suave is totally think you jerk!"

"Not when you care" Nat interrupts as direct as always, looking seriously at him. "Food here is good but if you did yourself a favor and went straight to it we wouldnt have to come here and hear you whine"

"Straight?" Bucky chimes again, entertained. Nat hits him in the back of the head "Idiot."

"I will, alright? I will"

Rught then, Peter comes back with their drinks and Tony leans back.

"I dont know what I like the most, you coming to me in those cute rolls or you going away in that killer short"

All his friends look at him exasperated, and Tony cant believe he actually said that to Peter. Hes never going to get a date with his cheesy fucking lines.

But Peter laughs. Not a big laugh, okay, but a short, cute one that he tries to hide.

"Maybe youd like me better without both, huh Tony?" He leans towards Tony a little, his hand on Tony's shoulder for a second.

Hes gone just as fast as he came, leaving the whole table shocked.

Tony knows he should close his mouth, but he cant believe Peter Parker just legit flirted back at him. What the hell? He needs a cold shower right now, and his friends need to stop looking at him.

"Did you pay him to say that or something" Tony knows Bucky is trying to be funny, but truth is he cant explain that act either, and when he looks at Nat and Clint for help, they're just staring at him like a third head just grew out.

...

Peter is hyperventilating.

"I cant believe I flirted back. What the hell is wrong with me?" His friends are looking at him like he just told them he likes to dance hula naked in december, and Peter cant blame them

"Huh, maybe the fact that you've had the hots for him for years?"MJs voice cuts the air. Peter looks at her in disbelief.

"I have not! He's arrogant and careless and despective and rude and..."

"And hot and intelligent and funny, in your opinion" MJ adds, smiling "I've seen you laugh at his jokes when you think no one is watching, and you cant deny hes hot and smary"

"Maybe you should date him"

"Dont be ridiculous, I'm leaning to girls in this period of my life. And he's into you, not me"

Peter couldnt believe MJ. He did not have the hots for Tony, and Tomy was not funny, not all the time anyway, and Tony Stark was not into Peter in any way, shape or form.

And yet he had felt so good flirting with him. Seeing his amazement when Peter had answered. For once, Tony was not in control of everything and playing his jokes, he was shocked.

And Peter did that to him.

So Peter decided, what the hell, let's try this out. If he ends up being an asshole, my friends will kick his ass for me.

"If you like him, go ahead, but he looks like too much trouble for me" Steve said, looking worried. He and Bucky had been childhood friends, but they bad separated later in life and Steve didn't like to be close to him or his friends, Tony included.

"Yeah, and if he's a jerk to you well talk to him" Sam smiled threatingly, clapping his hands.

"Nat is really nice to be around when you meet her" added a blushing Bruce, who had been crushing on the ginger since they met but was way too shy to say or do anything.

Peter kept working until he had to deliver Tony's food. He tried not to show he was nervous and he definitely didnt check his ass before going out the kitchen with the food.

"Number 6,8,12, and 3 for you guys, with chips for everyone and a piece of ass for Anthony" he looked at Tony intently, trying to guess his reaction. For a second Stark just stranded there, shocked, until he slapped Peter's ass so strongly all the diner turned around. Or maybe it was because Peter had let out the loudest moan a boy his size could produce.

Peter thought he was going to kill himself. What was that?? One thing is flirting,but that? He was so losing his job. Trying to keep as much dignity as he could, he said "That's more than a piece, and it hurt, you idiot" and he turned around and left, head high and eyes burning from shame.

....

Tony was going to kill himself.

"Dude, what the fuck? He was kidding you dumbass" Bucky, again, was laughing at him. Although this time Tony couldnt blame him, fuck it. What the hell was that?? It's not like Peter's bubble butt didnt deserve one or two good slaps, but Peter worked there!

On the other hand, how could have Tomy anticipated that Peter was going to react like that? That moan could have brought people from the death, nd it certainly brought some of Tony's parts as well.

"It seemed like he liked it" Nat said, like she was reading Tony's mind. She was trying to keep herself from laughing, while Clint signaled that he was scarred for life.

Tont got up without knowing what he was doing. People weren't looking directly anymore, but he knew they were still totally focused on his movements. He got in the staff room without problems. Apparently Claire was too shocked to say nothing about it.

As soon as he got in he saw Peter, sitting in a corner, head buried on his lap.

"Dude what the hell? Are you alright?" Tony rushed to him scared. Peter just laughed.

"You're kidding? I'm si getting fired after that. What the fuck, man? In which world is that an appropriate way of flirting?"

"So we were flirting?" Tony wanted to confirm, and he realized now he sounded like an ass.

"Oh my god you slapped my ass but you dodnt know we were flirting? Dude! You're all class arent you?" Peter frowned at him.

"Didnt seem like you cared" Tomy knew he was being a dick, but he couldnt help it when Peter was right there, all long legs and blushed and nervous and biting his goddamn lip making it even redder than usual. If possible, Peter got even more red. "I liked that a lot, but that doesnt mean you can do it in my job, you idiot"

"What about my place? When you finish here?" Tony knew he was going to be totally rejected after that but he had to try, right?

"Ah, no, I'm not letting you win after that. You're taking me on a date first, and if you behave I'll let you take me to your place and well see what happens" Peter said, knowing full well he was going to be ditched.

"Deal"

"Wait, you sirious?" Peter opened his eyes in disbelief.

"What, you're not?" Tony arched his brow.

"I am, I am. Okay, deal"

"Can I ask you something, before I leave?"

"What?"

"Would you wear those shorts to our date?"

#starker #tony stark #peter parker #diner au #biker!tony #waiter!peter #not my best work #not my best writing #but #not the worst #long scene #fanfic #kinda #i guess #fanfiction #be kind lol