#fandom discourse I guess?

[diazsdimples]

What do u say about these supposed hard core fans that are shipping buck Tommy? They gonna make the writers keep that homophobe around 😰

I am entirely the wrong person to ask about this.

Firstly, I ship Bucktommy AND Buddie. And this is possible! You are allowed to see Buck be happy with a man for the first time (how fucking good!!) but also wish upon the nearest star that he ends up with Eddie in the end. I truly believe Buddie is endgame but at the moment, I am more delighted at the fact that Buck is happy, with a man, experiencing a positive queer relationship.

The reason I ship Bucktommy is because look! at! how! happy! this! boy! is!!! I will ship ANY person that makes my little blorbo as happy and blushy and giggly as Evan Buckley is when he's with Tommy Kinard. He is SMITTEN. Do I think they're endgame? Not at the moment, no. Would I be upset if they were? I'd mourn the fuck out of Buddie, but I would be glad that Buck is finally happy and comfortable in a relationship. His happiness is paramount.

For the reasons why Buck's bisexual arc is more important than a ship, please read this post. It talks about the importance of representation in current media, and my own experiences of coming to terms with my bisexuality just before this arc was aired. What we're seeing with Buck's story is revolutionary, really. We haven't seen this kind of thing happen in media much at all and it is so important to show.

For any issues regarding Tommy, please read this post by the lovely @slightlyobsessedwitheverything. They beautifully go through all his appearances and break them down for us and I would urge you to read it with an open mind.

Now, about Eddie. I am an Eddie girlie (gn) through and through. That is my babygirl and I adore him with every fibre of my being. I would love nothing more than to see him go through a queer arc. However, right now, Eddie is not in the place to do so. We saw from the last episode that he's an untapped reservoir of Catholic guilt, and it's gonna take a lot to work through that, before he can have any kind of realisation re: Buck. He's very much in his comphet days but is starting to take some steps towards undoing some of his old habits, like getting Marisol to move out when he realises they're moving too fast.

With this in mind, I think it would be too rushed and too early for Buddie to get together right now. Yeah they've had many seasons of being married and living out of one another's pockets but given the stages of life they are both in, I feel it wouldn't end as well as we'd like it to. Eddie isn't in the right place for it. Buck is exploring his sexuality. They need time to learn and grow and do some serious thinking and realising before they can even begin to contemplate a relationship together.

Regarding the "homophobe", I am assuming this is referring to Edy Ganem and not Lou Ferrigno Jr. I would like it noted for the record that I cannot stand Edy and therefore cannot stand Marisol. If Meddie were to be endgame, I'd fume. They have no chemistry. They do not suit one another. And I don't believe Edy should be given a platform to spread her hateful rhetoric, and I hope the last we see of her is 7x07. I'm a little mad it wasn't 7x05 but there we go.

However, Tommy and Buck's storyline and Eddie and Marisol's storyline are entirely separate. The only thing that links them are Buck and Eddie, and their friendship. I don't believe that Tommy's existence means Marisol is going to stick around and I find it a little odd that you do. Buck can and has had relationships that aren't Eddie. Eddie can and has had relationships that aren't Buck. Buck being in a relationship does not mean Eddie will also be in one. Tommy's existence does not confirm Marisol's continued existence.

My current best case scenario is Eddie being single by the end of 7x07 (please god), and Buck and Tommy continuing their relationship, so Buck has the opportunity to learn and experience same-sex relationships while Eddie has the time to deconstruct his true feelings, get therapy, work through 30+ years of repression, and then they'll be ready.

ALSO I DO NOT WANT BUCK TO CHEAT ON TOMMY WITH EDDIE. WE ARE NOT HERE FOR THAT.

Best case scenario, sometime towards the end of s7 or beginning of s8, Buck and Tommy decide that they both want different things out of life, have an amicable split that doesn't leave either of them hurt, Tommy sticks around as a recurring character because he's ingrained in the 118 again, Eddie's doing his therapy thing and then maybe mid s8 him and Buck can start coming to some realisations with a potential for Buddie moments towards the end of s8. Honestly anything else would seem too rushed.

The final point I'd like to make is that I find it extremely odd that you call people who ship Bucktommy "supposed hardcore fans". Shipping anything other than Buddie doesn't make you any less of a fan. Actually, I'd argue it shows a bit more commitment to the characters as you're willing to be open to them growing as humans and expanding on the personalities that we love. If Buddie is the only reason you watch the show, I feel you should re-evaluate your motivation. This show has so many great ships, such as Bathena, Henren and Madney, as well as Buddie and Bucktommy, and considering this is an ensemble show, we should show all of them as much love as the other. These characters are so intertwined with one another and that's what makes this show so worth watching. Watching for 2 characters and 2 characters only is not getting the full enjoyment out of it.

I hope this answered your questions and gave you something to reflect on. As I say, I'm not the right person to ask about this as I too ship Bucktommy, currently have 2 Bucktommy fics in my drafts and watch them kiss at least 10 times a day. And for future reference, I will be unfollowing/blocking people who throw tantrums about not getting Buddie so far, or who believe you can only ship Buddie and feel superior for doing so. Have a good rest of your day.

#james answers things #james says things #bucktommy #buddie #evan buckley #eddie diaz #tommy kinard #fandom discourse I guess? #911 abc #911 season 7 #911 buddie #911 spoilers #anon #asks #this ended up a lot longer than I thought it would #but this question pissed me off a little dskjdsk #thank you for coming to my TED talk

[tenisperfection]

i think a way to calm the people's irrational fears is for the writers to come out and say from the show that BL is not a romance. it doesn't matter what we see on screen not being romantic(and it really isn't from either person) that can easily change in S6 as they develop their relationship but if they do the same thing they did to Lena and be like they're just friends then the fears will stop.

I don’t think the writers need to say anything—what do you even expect them to say? For Tim or Kristen to come out and say “Hey folks, we know a section of you are absolutely terrified of this new character being Buck’s endgame love interest so don’t worry she’s not and she’s just here doing her thing and won’t get in Buck and Eddie’s way?”

If they’re asked—and they’ll probably be asked if Lucy sticks around—they’ll probably leave it open or say whatever they want, and I think as a viewing audience we need to get used to the fact that showrunners lie in interviews. I wasn't around at the time but from glancing back at articles that came out when Lena was introduced, they made it seem like she was a love interest for Eddie too. Remember when Tim said Eddie won't have PTSD from the shooting because he went to war? Remember where we are now?

This isn't really directed at you but if you can't construe anything romantic between them from what you see on screen, why worry about what they say in interviews or not, especially when we know they aren't always truthful? If Lucy is a character we'll see going in S6, they'll develop her however they want and however she fits into the story. They've also told these stories for five years now, so going off of where things are, I don't believe she's Buck's endgame love interest.

Also, and this isn't meant to be rude, but if you're not personally worried about this, don't pay attention to people who are. Curate your dash, unfollow people if they're being irrationally worried, etc etc. I don't think we need to be worried about people who're worried, lol, and some people literally always will be about every single thing. I'm saying nothing new here but if worry about a new character and her relationship with one of the mains is a major part of your viewing experience, you need to think about why that is. I have fun watching the show and there are perfectly valid things to be critiqued, but I'm not worried about Lucy or BL or what's going to happen. I'm having so much fun and it's a spectacular season and there's so much content to delve into that I really am not interested in anything else, especially how to calm down people who are worried about something none of us have any control over.

#fandom discourse i guess? #911 fox #911 spoilers #asks #anon

[rosesradio]

honestly the biggest thing i’ve learned during my time here on tumblr dot com is that interaction is loads more genuine than media consumption.

like idc if you ship the most bloodthirsty animalistic incestuous cannibals, if you’re a nice person to talk to that compassion & love shines through over any fiction & i’d defend you against anyone that consumes solely “pure” media but is awful to everyone

#does this make sense #peace and love on planet earth #fandom discourse #proship #I Guess Or Whatever

[skellagirl]

Gordon/Barney/Alyx is really really funny to me conceptually bc it's like, two hot geniuses in their 20s who look at the 40-something smartass who hangs around and go 'yeah that guy. we both want him carnally'

#and they're SO right #half life #half life 2 #gordon freeman #alyx vance #barney calhoun #freemance #valhoun #freehounce #idk what the hell their poly ship name is sorry lol #(me. posting about a ship with an age gap on the 'can't be normal about age gap ships' website: #SURE HOPE THERE ISN'T ANY AGE GAP DISCOURSE IN HERE) #this was the first time I've drawn any of these characters in LITERAL YEARS and. wow........ #feels so crazy that this was the fandom that got me to join tumblr in the first place (in 2011!!!!) and I used to draw them ALL THE TIME #interests change I guess #but I think I'll always come back to hl and portal occasionally. they're too much a part of my dna at this point LOL #my art #description in alt text #oh my god I just went back through my half life tag and the last time I drew these three was when I drew that freehounce meme LMAOOO #how serendipitious

[coockie8]

I’m pissed because we did not spend decades upon decades before the term proship was even a thing building fandom up into what it is today just for a bunch of entitled, snot nosed little shits to come around and say the space belongs to them now and we’re no longer welcome.

“Proshippers” created fandom years before “proship” and “antiship” were even concepts. Antis don’t get to come in and change the narrative now that fandom is “mainstream”. This is where the weirdos (affectionate) gather and it’s always been that way.

I miss the simple days when, for the most part, people just minded their own damn business. I miss when the worst thing someone could say to me over shipping royed or something was “they’re not even gay, you freak!”, instead of immediately accusing me of literal pedophilia over a cartoon. I miss when fandom was chill and not a morality crusade.

I miss when people could tell the difference between a series of lines on a screen and a real person.

::Edit::

I am not saying old fandom was a paradise full of rainbows and shunshine where everybody always got along.

I am aware that old fandom had a lot of issues, those issues just aren't what this post is about, so I didn't address them. Yes, old fandom was horribly homophobic and misogynistic. I'm queer, I'm aware.

You think I didn't get Flamed? You think I've never gotten death threats in old fandom? Doxx threats? A plathoria of mysogynistic and homophobic slurs thrown at me left and right? I fucking know old fandom had issues too. But old fandom issues are not what this post is talking about!

This post is simply lamenting the days before I was being endlessly called a literal predator over pixels, and lines on paper.

#proship #proshipping #proshippers please interact #long post #anti bs #fandom discourse #just anti things #I'm *tired* #antis dni #venting i guess

[pumpkinpaix]

Regarding #EndOTWRacism’s summaries of 2023 OTW Board election candidate positions

Before I begin, let me say now that while I am a volunteer with the OTW, my views are personal and should not be taken as any kind of official statement from the org, its leadership, or other volunteers, especially not the candidates in question. My focus here is on the Asian candidates for obvious reasons, but this post is not meant as endorsement or disavowal of any of the candidates, whose bios and platforms can all be read here.

Do not take this as an excuse harass the mods running EOTWR. I cannot make myself clearer.

--

I am making this post to express my extreme disappointment with End OTW Racism’s post purporting to summarize the platforms of the candidates for the upcoming Board elections. It is no longer rebloggable, but can be read here.

The way that the candidates with Asian names were spoken of is deeply insulting when compared with how candidates with English-language names were discussed. Asian candidates had their platforms misrepresented, their expertise downplayed, and their lived experiences reduced down to “bringing an international presence” to the board, which was then further caveated with, “diversity alone is not going to solve the issue of racist harassment currently allowed in the OTW’s policies and enforcement practice”. While it is true that diversity alone is not a solution, it’s pretty offensive to essentially have “remember! Just because they aren’t white doesn’t mean you should vote for them!” tacked on to one of the Asian candidates’ platforms. 

End OTW Racism seems more concerned with whether or not candidates used the buzzwords they wanted to hear rather than with how racism is discussed holistically within the statements. While I can appreciate that EOTWR has a specific agenda, to say things like, “[s]he does not mention racism, racist harassment, or hiring a DEI consultant in her platform, so outside the outreach and support she mentions, there is not enough for us to conclude that these would be priorities for her” regarding Zixin Z.’s position, directly following the statement, “[s]he also mentions the need for outreach towards non-English-speaking fans and has a desire to provide support to volunteers from minority groups” is fucking laughable, especially after the initial mistake of stating that Zixin Z. only wanted to do more outreach to Chinese-speaking fans. Again, I understand that people make mistakes and that this mistake has since been corrected, but I hope it prompts some reflection on the sort of biases that would lead to such a mistake in the first place. It may have been completely innocuous, but in charged discussions about racism, please understand that it gives an impression that is difficult to shake. I do thank you for not trying to hide that this happened. 

Why is Anh P.’s lack of discussion on TOS/PAC a point against her, while Zixin Z.’s years of experience on PAC, her role as a mod on Weibo, and her background in nonprofits don’t even warrant a mention? For that matter, why did none of the Asian candidates’ skills or experience warrant mention? Qiao C. and Zixin Z. have both been volunteers with the organization for several years now, and Anh P. has years of moderation and volunteer experience elsewhere prior to her work with the OTW.

It is so fucking frustrating that despite each one of these candidates specifically talking about the need for diverse voices, they had their platforms essentially passed over because they didn’t use the right words, and it is particularly fucking aggravating to see that EOTWR will use Chinese issues as props when trying to press OTW leadership on the racism that occurs within the org, but then completely fail to connect the dots on why these candidates are running because the wrong language was used. Zixin Z. is one of the Weibo mods, for fuck’s sake. 

The entire post feels like an exercise in virtue signalling, from every time it was brought up that a candidate did not provide pronouns in their platform statements, despite every one of them having pronouns provided in their bios (why mention this detail at all? You could have simply used the pronouns), to what felt like willful obliviousness to the anti-racism stances in the Asian candidates’ platforms. It feels like the concern starts and ends with racism in Anglophone terms, on Anglophone terms.

I can respect the driving ideas behind EOTWR, even if I disagree with the way that EOTWR pursues their goals. I do believe that we want the same things in the end, and therefore chose not to interact with the many posts I have seen about the protest. However, I saw the summary post and could not let it pass without speaking.

For a protest group supposedly dedicated to ending racism in the OTW, this felt incredibly hypocritical, conscious bias or not. In my most charitable frame of mind, I can see this as misjudging and overcorrecting to ensure that there was no favoritism shown to the obvious non-white candidates lest EOTWR be accused of tokenizing– again, it is true, that diversity in and of itself is not a solution to racism. 

In my least charitable and most bitter frame of mind, I feel inclined to wonder if EOTWR, much like the OTW itself, is uncomfortable with the lack of influence they could exude over an international candidate. It would be much, much easier to push their agenda forward with more culturally familiar candidates, particularly white ones. Guilt and public scrutiny are powerful weapons and easy to wield against those with perceived privilege in our current atmosphere, often to the detriment of the actual discussion at hand in my experience. I know that’s cynical. It’s hard not to be. (For clarity's sake: I do not know the other candidates' races. This is a hypothetical.)

This isn’t a demand for an apology. I think we fetishize the capital-A Apology to the point where I find them sort of meaningless unless they are given freely. I don’t need EOTWR to agree with me, and I don’t really want to keep talking about it. Rather, I would prefer that EOTWR take action to do better as they continue in their campaign. What that action is is their decision. If they truly mean to stand against racism in the OTW, then I’d like them to demonstrate it.

--

DO NOT HARASS EOTWR MODS. I AM FUCKING SERIOUS ABOUT THIS.

#endotwracism #votetoendotwracism #organization for transformative works #otw #ao3 #archive of our own #fandom #otw board #otw elections #discourse #racism #end otw racism #i'm so so sorry everyone #but i'm upset i really am. #mine #mymeta #i guess. #i mean it i don't really want to talk more about it okay. i will probably mute this post #even if i reblog it a few times #long post #statistically average

[incorrectquoteswwdits]

It fits for all sides of the fandom!

#ofmd season 2 #ofmd s2 spoilers #ofmd season 2 spoilers #OFMD #I’m sorry I guess I’m just a multi fandom blog until WWDITS comes back #Izzy hands #OFMD meme #meme #Don’t start any discourse it’s just a fun meme

[antimony-medusa]

Oh no no I did not have to sit through Charlie saying “full penetration Minecraft sex” repeatedly and whatever the hell is going on with Foolish’s unwilling love triangle and Wilbur’s TNTduo handjob analogy (which I then transcribed, it was about sex) for people to get into the tags and say that the creators are uncomfortable with romantic or sexual depictions of their characters. Those men are fucking on-screen.

#like obviously don’t show it to them #but they made it PRETTY CLEAE that this is gay sex island #qsmp #wilbur soot #charlie slimecicle #Charlie slimesicle #Quackity #discourse #I guess #fandom meta

[starrbar]

One thing that always baffles me and that I legit continuously forget about because it's such a weird concept to me is that lots of people think that to "ship" a pairing is to view it as completely healthy and ideal for both characters involved, and to thus want it to be canon.

But that's... just not the case with so many ships??

Think of it this way. I could legitimately see a ship as "relationship goals" and "should be canon", but I could just as easily see it as a thriller or toy train crash or a way to vent about my own, real issues that I've had to overcome.

When I watch a horror movie, I don't necessarily want my favorite characters in it to die. And even when I do want people to die, it's not because I think it's a good thing?? It's because I know it's fake and it's fun to watch or think about. It's fun to play superhero punching the bad guy. It's fun to play games where you set people on fire or make a giant fish swallow them.

And when I "ship" something ungodly toxic or downright awful, it's not because I'm under any impression that it represents a relationship that should be imitated or strived for. It's because it's thrilling. It's exciting. It's weird. It's even uncomfortable sometimes, but it's uncomfortable in a therapeutic way.

I've never seen someone ACTUALLY glorifying the unhealthy aspects of their favorite ship. I only ever see people playing toy trains or coping with trauma.

And it's goddamn bizarre to me that so many people think of "shipping" as an inherently prescriptive thing when it's actually just a game.

It's just a game.

It's JUST A GAME.

#shipping discourse #fandom discourse #proship #I guess #that's what proship means right? #god why am I here #starrspeaks

[alexa-nowak]

Fandom culture has changed so much, I honestly just don't get it anymore

It used to be absolutely normal to like morally questionable or straight up irredeemable characters, there was no "if you like a bad guy, you are agreeing with the bad guy" in my 2013

Now nearly in every fandom villain lovers are getting bullied, fandoms are busy protecting pixel's feelings, while severely hurting real people's mental health with this neverending flood of toxicity

And it genuinely upsets me, because villains and the whole concept of liking "against the good guys" characters in media/ literature/ art/ etc was always a safe space for outcasts and people who felt rejected by society, for being queer, for just being different and unable to fit in for any reason

And seeing that even inside online fandom culture villain lovers are getting nothing but this bs is heartbreaking

And all this discussion about "healthy relationship with imaginary bf" is the whole different bucket of crap that I would waffle about at some point

How these people are doing in literature classes, I mean, every other classical book has some kind of toxic love story, do they need a trigger warning for every book or something

#yes it's about ascended Astarion #yet again #ascended astarion #villain #villian lover #fandom discourse #anyone knows what df has happened to society #and media literacy i guess #i am so glad there is no fixing path for Minthara

[quadrantadvisor]

I feel like these days we get so much criticism of the dynamics in 2012 that the characters get kind of flattened by the fandom, so I wanna say that 2012 Raph is not just a one-dimensional bully character, he's got a lot more caring and emotional intelligence than he gets credit for. Yeah, he has an obvious protective streak, but even beyond that, he's always his brother's number one supporter, even when he disagrees with them.

He's highly critical of Mikey's desire to make human friends, but when Mikey goes out to do it anyways and it blows up in his face with Bradford, Raph is the one to comfort him and tell him he deserves better.

He thinks Donnie's crush on April is delusional, but helps him out at every chance he gets, removing Donnie from embarrassing situations of talking him up in front of April. When Casey comes into the picture, Raph tells him point blank that it doesn't matter that they're best friends, and it doesn't matter how bad Donnie's chances are, Raph's on Donnie's side in this.

And when Leo starts sneaking out to see Karai, Raph is the one who notices, tells him off, and tries to get him to stop. He doesn't tell anyone else, though. He wants Leo to make good choices, but he respects him enough to let him make bad ones without getting the rest of the family involved. They'd all be on Raph's side, but he doesn't need them to all gang up on Leo like that, even if he's not listening.

Basically, Raph cares about his brothers, including their emotional well-being, even when it's not obvious. And yeah we should criticize the writing and how harsh it gets and how there's no resolution to the ways certain characters are treated, but I get tired of seeing complex characters be villainized and sometimes I just wanna read fanfiction that is nice?????? So that's my thesis I guess lol

#i just love him and want better for him #everybody writes him so mean and he is fr my little guy #i guess this didnt need to be written so confrontationally and could just be a character study #but based on fandom shit i really do forget sometimes that Raph is a good brother! #everyone acts like he is exclusively an asshole and its legit exhausting #he was my first favorite in that series and i want better for him #idk ignore me #tmnt #tmnt 2012 #raph 2012 #tmnt 2012 discourse

[angstydiaz]

911 fandom be normal about women challenge

#911 spoilers #fandom discourse #i guess #PLS I BEG #911 fox

[rakkuntoast]

said this on birdapp earlier cuz I've seen it but if you're planning to redesign Tallulah for the love of god don't take away her curly hair. you can separate her from that man if you change the beanie and sweater (even so people draw more the mushroom hat and the sweater depends on the artist) but her curly hair is part of her identity <- read her admin saying that short and curly hair is canon for Tallulah

that man doesn't own curly hair, his isn't that curly to be honest. not to the extent people draw Tallulah's hair anyway, she's also like one of the few eggs that is constantly drawn with curly hair

I could go on a tangent on how curly haired people (me included btw) struggle with self image and how it always end up with permanently straightening the hair but I feel like it's a conversation for another moment

but yeah the main point is please don't take away her main traits, same goes for her being mexican and having hearing aids

#qsmp #discourse #qsmp tallulah #this feels very silly to say but idk as a curly haired person that identifies with Tallulah cuz we share it #it just kinda sucks that the few canon traits that she has are being erased just for that man #when changing her clothes and beanie is more than enough #I'll defend curly hair until the day I die. so many times ppl have called mine messy and not classy or elegant sucks ass #ask to tag #cuz idk what to put #btw I've talked with curly haired ppl and we barely get curly hair in media. it sucks that the crumbs we have are getting erased :/ #cuz of a fuckass white man #qsmp fandom crit #I guess

[balanceoflightanddark]

Here's a friendly reminder that Azula got as good as firebending as she did through hard work. Not luck nor eugenics. She was a prodigy and worked her ass off.

Putting aside the fact that I couldn't imagine Ozai allowing his weapon to get lazy, it's a canon fact that she pushes herself for perfection. You don't get that by being lucky. You get that by becoming the best. And it's pretty insulting to try and tear her down, thus rendering all her efforts null and void.

Maybe this is imposter syndrome talking, but Azula should never be seen as second-rate just because she never beat Katara. Nor should her victories be downplayed. She's the third-best firebender in the series, and she should be respected as such.

#azula #princess azula #azula meta #atla #avatar: the last airbender #i don't know #i guess this sort of discourse bothers me a little #maybe this is just my imposter syndrome talking #atla fandom problems #i guess

[queerplatonic-msr]

What I wish the She-Ra fandom was:

People who acknowledge that Catradora is abusive and probably shouldn't have been romanticized in a kids show, but still enjoy it as the dark romance turned wish fulfillment wlw it is.

People who believe that Adora, Catra, Glimmer, and Bow should all be living happy fulfilling lives full of queerness by the end of the show, but that Catra should be living that life away from the people she traumatized. 

These two groups are friends. 

What the She-Ra fandom is: 

People who are in complete denial that Catradora is abusive. 

People who think Catra is irredeemable and should die. 

These two groups hate each other. 

(If you are actually a member of the first two groups though please hit me up I would love to have an spop community like that!!!)

#potentially the spiciest post I've ever made #what do i even tag something that is in a way both pro and anti catradora #guess ill use both #spop #catradora #anti catradora #spop fandom #fandom discourse #she ra #she ra and the princesses of power #princesses of power

[elloras]

in the red earth and pouring rain (x)

#last emo edit for this song i swear! #needed to get it out of my system #ted lasso #roykeeley #roy x keeley #and i guess #anti roykeeley #at the same time #flashing tw #* #roy kent #keeley jones #no 'roy was selfish' discourse on this post please #it's an incredibly reductive take imo but also i hate fandom Discourse and don't want to get into it #hopefully the gifset says what i'd say