#i will not take criticism about how I talk about christianity from christians but

[vettelsvee]

THIS IS THE LEAST I COULD DO | Sebastian Vettel

f1 masterlist | history series masterlist | season 1

history series season 2: part 1 | part 2.1 | part 2.2 | part 3 | part 4 | part 5 | part 6

summary: sebastian is back on track… sort of. diana is back as well —better said, she’s welcomed to red bull racing as a race engineer intern

word count: 4716

warnings: a not so good behavior from certain person towards diana. i remind you that this is a fictional work and everything represented here is just pure fiction.

taglist: [@theseerbetweenus @annewithaneofthegreengable @vincentvanshoe @formulaonebuff] if you wanna be tagged in each part just tell me in the comments <3

a/n: welcome back to history! hope you like this season even though is not my fave (for now, 2010 season is my top 1), but the ending is 📈

feedback, as well as reblogs and comments, are truly appreciated!

2023

"The first time I met Diana was in Jerez, in February 2009, during the presentation of the RB5. Sebastian and I had to present the car we would be using that season and she had come for a first contact with the team. I swear Seb talked to me about that intern too many times to the point I wanted to shut him up," explained the Australian, laughing. "Do you remember when, because of you, I thought Diana was your girlfriend? And then I asked Christian and he said yes!"

Sebastian Vettel remembered that as if it had happened a couple of minutes ago. His obsession with the young woman who was now his wife grew during the 2008 winter break, even though they had no contact beyond the messages they shared on that fateful Christmas Eve. When the German found out from Britta that the girl would be joining them in the Andalusian city, and no matter how much he tried not to care, he couldn't help but wish the day would come soon to see Diana Wagner again.

"You talked about her all the time, Seb," Webber continued. "It was normal for me to think she was Hanna."

"I know, I know," the German insisted in a playful tone, hitting the older man's arm. "Leave it alone and focus on what we have to talk about! I'm hungry and sleepy, so you better wrap this all up as soon as you can."

[...]

2009 February 9th

Jerez, Spain

It was February and Sebastian, who seemed to have paid no attention during Geography classes in high school and was apparently unaware of the climatic differences between countries, was surprised at how the sun shone powerfully in the clear sky over the city of Jerez. He was eternally grateful to be able to enjoy much milder temperatures than those in his native Germany, where winter was potentially colder than in the south of Spain.

The two Red Bull Racing drivers arrived in a golf cart driven by a circuit worker to an area near the circuit offices, from where they would depart to carry out that presentation that Sebastian was not looking forward to doing.

This time they weren’t alone but accompanied by Karina, a Colombian woman in her early thirties who worked as the team's public relations from possibly that moment since Sebastian, despite being the rookie, had heard of some of its members. The woman, however, was totally unknown to him no matter how hard he tried to remember.

The fresh air blowing through the city of Cadiz was hitting them directly, something to be thankful for as sweat was starting to invade their bodies due to nerves, especially the younger one. After all, it was his first contact being, what many people considered, the young man who would lead Red Bull Racing to success.

Red Bull Racing’s chosen one.

To say that Sebastian felt pressure from the expectations that fans, journalists, and especially those not so admirers of the Formula 1 world who tended to criticize, had placed on him was an understatement.

The moment they stepped out of the cart, that internal tingling increased. They were barely taking their few belongings when they were already surrounded by the press, and as they approached the room where they would meet with Christian Horner, who would come out with them on stage, the media, with their cameras and microphones ready to capture any situation to manipulate or sell it as they saw fit, surrounded them overwhelmingly, as if they were criminals.

Webber seemed used to so many people paying attention to him, although he felt a little annoyed by the treatment they were receiving. Vettel, on the other hand, felt like he was losing air incredibly surprisingly, and all he wanted in those moments was for a bubble to surround him and take him out of there. His anxiety was escalating, but all he did to cope with the situation as best he could was to wonder if he was really prepared to face fame in such a way.

If the season had just begun, he didn't want to imagine how that same situation would unfold a few months later, when half of the calendar was complete.

"I think they know us a little around here, don't they?" the younger of the two commented ironically, turning his head to Webber as he tried to put aside his intrusive thoughts.

Mark just nodded, sharing the same opinion as the boy. The Australian was much more serious than him and, at that moment, he wasn't in the mood for much joking, although deep down he felt sorry for the pale face and droopy eyes of the German. That event was not only important for Red Bull but also for them, especially for himself. Since it had been announced that Sebastian Vettel would replace David Coulthard at the end of his very first full season as a rookie, the pressure had started to overwhelm him incredibly.

Flanked by the security that had been hired for the event, Sebastian and Mark, along with the woman accompanying them, managed to navigate the growing crowd of journalists that began to accumulate in the vicinity of the venue. As they got closer and closer to the room where they would be expected, the intensity of the flashes and the impertinent voices faded away. As soon as they arrived they came across a too nervous Christian and a much calmer Britta.

"Damn, you finally made it."

The blue team director headed towards the drivers as soon as they crossed the door and the room closed.

"Were you lost or something?" the British insisted.

"No, no," explained Vettel somewhat agitated. "The press had set us up big time."

"Don't overdo it, Sebastian," Mark replied to the younger one. "This is nothing compared to what you might encounter after a race."

Christian listened carefully to the absurd dialogue the two teammates were having, trying to extract some importance from it that wasn't just a stupid argument for the reporters. As soon as he got tired of them his posture stiffened, his features became serious, and he didn't hesitate for a second to interrupt them when he saw on his wristwatch that they should have been on stage five minutes ago.

"Okay," the man began, filling the room with a sepulchral sound. "You arrived later than expected, and your nonsense conversation made us delay everything even more. Besides, I don't think Karina has explained anything to you along the way, so I'll have to tell you now, clearly and concisely," he added.

His gaze turned to the Colombian, who until that moment had been talking animatedly with Roeske. Quickly, the younger one stood up and adopted a much more serious posture, with her shoulders raised, her back completely straight, and her arms static, as if she were a figure from Ancient Egypt, totally hieratic except for a smile that she couldn't help but let escape from her lips. There was no need for any indication from Christian to know that she had to explain in detail to Sebastian and Mark what each of their roles would be in the presentation:

"Okay, guys, the presentation will be divided in three main parts. First, we'll have a brief press conference where you will be answering, together with Christian, some general questions about your expectations for the upcoming season. Then, we'll move on to a photo session with the cars, where you'll be posing for photographers and anyone who feels like seeing you," Sebastian, at this last part, added a disgusted grimace that was suppressed from a distance by his public relations. "We'll finish with Mark," she pointed to the Australian, "announcing that the preseason tests will be taking place this very week, and with Sebastian," she now addressed the blonde, "explaining that today, exclusively, you'll be driving the RB5 for the first time."

Both drivers listened carefully to everything, without putting any impediment, and nodding constantly to make sure Horner saw them taking it all in.

"During the press conference you have to be careful with what you say," Karina continued, and Sebastian felt that the message was directed especially at him. Did the girl know something about his constant screw-ups with the media? "Avoid any kind of controversial comment that could be interpreted negatively and, above all, those that could be misunderstood."

"Your answers should focus on the team and, especially, on what we expect for this upcoming year," Christian included. "Remember that there are many cameras and microphones recording everything, and if the press already misinterprets and questions everything we say..."

"It's better to tread carefully," Webber interrupted.

Sebastian, listening to all that, realized he wasn't prepared for any of what he was about to experience, but he would do his best to do the best job of presenting himself there, in front of all those people, and give the best version of himself not only for himself but for the people he worked with.

The tension increased when one of the Red Bull members who decided to come to Spain opened the door, letting the noise of the flashes penetrate the walls of the room. Christian, Mark and Sebastian were about to go out on stage, and as much as they were focused on the role they would have to play shortly, Sebastian was startled when he felt a tiny hand take his wrist.

Britta knew her client was the focus that day, and she didn't want him to make any mistakes that could not only cost him his newly acquired job but also his reputation.

"I need you to listen to me carefully," her voice was quiet, but completely firm, to the point that even she herself was alarmed. Her hand was still holding Sebastian's, and for the moment, she had no intention of letting go. "Don't mention Diana under any circumstances. Understood?"

The boy frowned, surprised by Roeske's warning. He knew he had to be careful about what he said, but he didn't expect such a direct warning, especially when it was about Di.

He loved Britta, but he hated the version that had appeared in recent months: the one that thought the only thing that mattered to him was the Austrian even though, in a way, she was right.

"Why, according to you, can't I talk about Diana?" Vettel replied cautiously. "Besides, I was only going to talk about the team that I know nothing about and the upcoming season, which I don't expect anything from."

The German sighed and, after lowering her head to gather some patience and calm before facing the boy again, she looked at him seriously.

"Sebastian, I know you perfectly," she revealed. "You're a big mouth, and when it comes to Wagner, you tend to say more than you should. By the way, I totally forgot: important: Diana’s coming today."

The guy, who had his feet supported only by his heels, stumbled and was about to bump into a table next to him. He hoped his “workmate” would be in Spain, but he hadn't thought it would be possible for her to stop by the RB5 presentation.

"Diana is going to be at the presentation? Here, today, at the event? Really?"

The young man tried to keep calm as best he could, but his stammering showed otherwise. Britta responded to him seriously, explaining that Christian Horner mentioned it that very morning just before Webber and he arrived.

"I don't know why he didn't tell anyone before," Roeske confessed. "Maybe he wanted to avoid distractions... So please: be as discreet as possible when she appears, and do not mention her name under any circumstances. Remember: try to think with your brain, not with your dick."

Seb nodded, laughing and processing the information. While it was true that he already had his own limits set, and he knew he had to be careful, the news of the Austrian being there, paying attention to everything he said, took him completely by surprise.

"Don't worry, Britta," Vettel managed to say. "I won't say anything. Thanks for letting me know."

The PR smiled at him conspiratorially. Before the boy left the room, she hugged him, and she didn't let him leave until she reminded him that he was the best and, again, to focus on Red Bull Racing and the months ahead.

As soon as he stepped onto the improvised stage, the cheers were so loud that Diana, who was approaching the circuit entrance, almost drowned in the deafening noise coming from inside.

As the girl approached the circuit entrance, the growing crowd of journalists and motorsport enthusiasts was overwhelming. She knew perfectly well what it was like to be anxious for the launch of a new car, and the RB5 had caused a stir throughout Formula 1. The cameras moved back and forth at a breathtaking speed along with the flashes. You could even hear some reporters asking questions to the people around the Jerez Circuit.

The bleached blonde, still queuing up to access the event, saw Christian Horner chatting animatedly with Mark Webber and the German who had brought so many smiles to her face every time she reread his messages.

As soon as she crossed the gates and made her way to the area reserved for the Formula 1 team, she was pursued by one of the security guards who was strictly controlling access.

"I'm sorry, miss," the man explained, tapping Diana's shoulder somewhat aggressively. "Without a credential or an invitation, I can't allow you access. If you'd be so kind as to come with me..."

Diana felt a wave of frustration washing over her. Quickly, she took off her backpack from her shoulders and opened it aggressively to search fiercely for something to corroborate that she was part of Red Bull. At the same time, the man's patience, standing there completely upright with his arms crossed, began to fade.

Again, the Austrian looked towards the stage, and saw the three men chatting animatedly, pointing at the cars under their feet.

Time was running out quickly and, with it, Diana's chances of being able to do something.

Without thinking twice, the girl closed her backpack and slung it onto her back as quickly as she could to, at that moment, start running. She didn't stop to look back, trying to dodge everyone present and the security guards who had started chasing her as best she could. Every step she took was a reminder that she needed to improve her physical condition.

In the midst of the chase and her nervousness, Wagner began to hear someone calling her by her last name. After stopping and taking a quick look around to try to figure out where the female voices were coming from, she could see Britta Roeske, a little way to her left, waving her arms, trying to get her to approach. Diana heaved a sigh of relief and, relaxing her pace, approached her savior.

"At last, Diana!" the German exclaimed, opening her arms to hug her. "Horner and I didn't know if you would make it on time."

"Yes, I'm sorry," the girl began to explain in perfect Spanish without realizing that Roeske wasn't understanding her. "It was my fault. I thought the taxi ride from my hotel to here would be faster, but..."

"Honey, can you talk to me in German, please? I would even settle for English."

Diana lowered her head when she realized she had been speaking in Spanish the whole time and, trying not to die of embarrassment, repeated, now in German, the reason for her delay, all thanks to the incredible traffic jam that had formed a few streets before reaching the circuit.

At the same time she listened to Vettel's PR, her eyes began to wander towards the stage, where the drivers and the team principal were chatting animatedly and trying to interact as much as they could with the audience. Her heart began to beat strongly when she heard Sebastian say that he was very excited for the opportunity they had given him months ago to be part of Red Bull; she felt the same way, and it was all thanks to the guy who was giving that speech.

"Wow, it looks like Christian had a luxury skiing vacation," Diana commented when she heard the story Roeske had told her about Horner's trip to Switzerland. "I wish I did."

The German's gaze became completely curious at the girl's last words. Her instinct of something being wrong had been activated, and she was determined to try to find out more about what seemed to be worrying the blonde.

"And yours?" she inquired, trying not to make a big deal out of it. "Is there anything exciting you have to tell us? Tell me you have a boyfriend," she said excitedly, although she regretted it because it seemed a bit intrusive.

"Nah, quite the opposite. It's been very quiet," she lied.

Her forced smile was telling everything to the older woman. Diana didn't want anyone to know, for the time being, the truth about her father's health, so she had to hide it as much as she could.

Roeske became concerned when she saw that Diana's eyes became somewhat watery; moreover, the tone of voice and expression that had appeared on Diana were a bit... worrying.

"Well, we all need to rest from time to time. If you ever need to talk to someone or vent about something," Britta added, trying to let the girl know that her help was there for whatever she needed, "I'm here. We haven't talked much, but that doesn't mean I can't listen to you."

Diana didn't know what to say. Although she hadn't had much contact with Sebastian's right-hand, she quite liked her. In fact, there had been a few occasions when she had wanted to approach the woman to exchange some inconsequential words with her, but her shyness always won.

Christian Horner's voice penetrated the room, making everyone, apart from the two German-speaking blondes, engrossed in the explanation of the purposes and objectives that Red Bull Racing would pursue starting the following month. Sebastian was listening attentively while trying to remember the faces of the people in the front rows, something he loved to do whenever he had any public appearance. However, his gaze began to wander a little further back when he spotted a blonde head next to Britta. Diana was having a conversation with her, her hands were moving constantly.

Even in a crowded place where he was supposed to be the center of everything, Diana Wagner captured all his attention.

To his surprise, he didn't mind at all.

For a moment, everything around him faded away, existing only that girl who, no matter how much he tried to forget her for more than obvious reasons, he couldn't. When she made eye contact with him and waved shyly, a mocking smile formed on the German's mouth, who began to feel a strange tingling in his stomach.

"Hey, Seb, are you still on Earth? Damn, I think we lost him, Christian."

Mark, upon asking Sebastian a question and receiving no response from the German, decided to throw another sarcastic remark while giving him a light tap on the arm to get his attention. Horner leaned closer to the young man's face and passed his free hand in front of him; immediately, Vettel blinked rapidly and forced himself to focus his gaze on his boss, who was subtly indicating to him to say something.

"Are you listening?" the Australian insisted again.

"Come on, Seb. We're in the middle of the presentation!" Christian shouted now as calmly as he could. If that was what he expected from the young man, what six years they had ahead of them... "Did a cat eat your tongue, or did you get lost in the clouds of Valencia?"

"We're in Jerez, but yes" the German hurried to say, earning some good laughs from the audience. "I'm sorry, I got distracted by a fan out there," he said, specifically pointing to the area where Diana and Britta were. "Where were we?"

Despite the murderous looks Britta was starting to throw his way at that moment, all Sebastian noticed was Diana's blush and her shy demeanor, clearly embarrassed, and flattered by Sebastian's words.

After a successful presentation and a much more acclaimed question session than expected, Christian Horner announced that the surprise of the day would be that Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber would be driving, for the first time, the RB5 for the crowd and the press present. The audience exploded in cheers, applauses and even started chanting, eager to see two highly acclaimed Formula 1 drivers in action.

Horner, immediately after stepping off the stage, tried to put on his best smile as he approached Diana, who was with Britta backstage. With a quick wave of his hand, he gestured for her to come closer to him.

"Be careful, okay?" Roeske whispered before the girl moved away, "Whatever he says or he does, don't lose your nerve. Nod and try to say yes to everything even you don’t agree."

Diana nodded, feeling sure of herself for the first time in her life in that world, although a little nervous. Then, she followed Christian's hurried pace, who seemed to be taking her to a more secluded place on stage where they could talk privately.

"What's this all about, Horner?" the blonde demanded, crossing her arms and trying not to let her guard down, "I thought we had discussed everything when you called me last month."

"It's nothing, Diana," the Brit clarified quickly. "I just want to talk to you again about the details of your joining Red Bull. After all, it's not the same to talk through one of those strange devices as it is face to face."

Roeske watched from a distance the conversation between the two, trying to decipher what they were saying, but it was impossible. She knew that Christian Horner had one of the most important roles in the team and that anything he wanted could be possible. At the same time, she was worried about Diana and how she would be treated. She wasn't her mother, and she wasn't trying to be, she was sure she already had one, but the fact that Sebastian spoke about her every time they saw each other had ended up generating in her a kind of special affection for the girl who seemed to matter so much to her client.

If only he wasn't so stupid and confessed what was on his mind, things would be so different...

"First of all, I want to tell you that we are extremely excited to have you on the team. Your skill and determination are undeniable," confessed the team principal. "Seb told us that it was you who came up with his strategy in Monza, and let me tell you: Rocky was completely impressed by it."

"Yes… well, it wasn't that big of a deal, but thank you," she said, trying not to give importance to a merit that publicly wasn't hers. "I am also very excited to join your team and have the opportunity to not only learn from the best, but also to become the best."

Had she gone too far by saying that last part? Perhaps the furrowed brow of the man in front of her was an indication that she had, but she couldn't care less.

"I'm glad to hear that, Wagner, but I want us to talk about more serious matters."

"I know," the Austrian replied.

Diana didn't want to show weakness, but she knew she had to control herself a little and think before saying whatever came to her mind no matter how right it was. That frankness seemed to bother the team principal, whose expression went from joy to anger in a matter of seconds.

"Diana, let me be clear," he muttered. "The conditions to be on this team are simple, but non-negotiable, so I hope they are clear to you from this moment on. You will have to dye your hair blonde as soon as you see the slightest reddish tone in it," how did he know that blonde wasn't her natural color? "Also, you have to come to work impeccably every day and only wear the team polo with a skirt and medium heels," who the hell had come up with those stupid rules? "I don't want you to socialize with drivers inside the paddock unless it is strictly necessary, as it will happen with our two.”

What were those stupid rules? Who invented them and thought they would be great if they wanted to promote equality?

"Your performance will be closely monitored," Horner continued, not giving Wagner a chance to express her apparent disagreement. “And, if you don't meet the expectations we obviously won’t count more on you.”

The young woman's discouragement was incredible, but her ambition was even greater. If she had to live from then on with those impediments to make her dream come true, she couldn't care less.

Christian knew he had gone too far with his way of expressing himself, but his pride was such that it prevented him from apologizing to the newcomer. Calming down a bit, and trying to calm the waters, he looked directly at Diana, and although he did give her another ultimatum, this time he did it much more calmly:

"I want you to know that I’ll try to trust you as much as I trust Sebastian with him recommending you," he acknowledged. "His word has proven to be much more reliable than that of many people not only with more experience in this sport. If he says you're capable, I’ll believe it too. But first, I have to see it myself."

The blonde tensed at the man's last sentence.

"Sebastian and I are just friends, Christian," she defended herself for no reason. "In fact, I would say we're not even that."

"I’ll try to trust you, Diana," he finally revealed with great effort what he had wanted to tell the young woman from the beginning, "and I'm sure more people will if you keep working and improving as you have been doing so far."

"Then why do I have to do everything you've asked me before?"

All the girl wanted to do at that moment was to calm her anger at the bipolarity that the man had shown in those moments. She knew there was a vast background behind those words and that, possibly, they didn't come from him but from some superior who wanted to test her.

"Don't screw it up, please," he simply said. "For God's sake, do not to screw it up."

The tension that had accumulated in the place dissipated as soon as Sebastian appeared, bursting in with a bottle of water in one hand and his helmet in the other, his driver’s suit open to his waist and sweat drops falling heavily from his forehead. His eyes lit up when he saw Diana, and her heart skipped a beat.

Without wasting a second, the driver placed his helmet and protective gear carefully on a nearby table and rushed to his friend. She couldn't help but smile as he wrapped his arms around her and they united in a hug that Diana wished would never end, while she kept repeating "thank you" in his ear.

It was the first time they had seen each other in person since November of the previous year, and a simple, insignificant caress was saying everything they hadn't said, and even more than they wanted to say because, at that moment, they were afraid to be honest with themselves and with each other.

Sebastian, without letting her go, gently stroked her hair and began to kiss her forehead affectionately, earning some giggles from the girl that were music to his ears.

"This is the least I could do, Di," he said when he pulled her away from him a bit, but without letting go of her chest. "You deserve this and much more, and I'm going to fight to give you everything you deserve. I promise."

#formula 1 #sebastian vettel #sv5 #f1 #formula one #vettel #sebastian vettel fanfic #sebastian vettel fanfiction #sebastian vettel x oc #sebastian vettel x female oc #f1 fanfic #f1 fanfiction #sebastian vettel fic #history #emma stone #diana vettel #history sebastian vettel #sebastian vettel history

[butterflybastard]

“if they treated islam that way instead of christianity everyone would be upset but because christianity receives that treatment nobody cares”

I've seen this mentioned many times the last couple of months and I can’t help but want to cackle every time I hear it. the reason being, I've been simultaneously raised christian and muslim pretty much since I was a born until I became a teenager and rejected both religions (it’s a long story I'll spare you the ramblings).

anyways being raised that way has left me with twice the religious trauma (neat!) and I think and hope an insightful perspective regarding this statement about how it’s super “unfair” that Islam gets treated “better” than christianity. to me christianity and islam are unsettlingly similar expect for a few major differences. the first of those differences being (you guessed it!) discrimination. the disdain, violence, exclusion, disgust and hatred that are targeted at muslims is ya know dangerous. on the other hand in the current year and place where I live there is no discrimination towards christians (if anything they most of the time do the discriminating). 

soooo criticizing, ridiculing and or rebelling against both of these religions comes with potentially very different consequences. what are some of the consequences for christianity? you’ll give people hurt by christianity comfort and or tools/motivation to break free from a religion that was probably forced upon them and some christians feewings get hurt UwU. 

for islam tho? any criticism risks being used as the ammunition used by islamophobes to discriminate and harm innocents. maybe you think I'm making too big a deal out of this point but I'd like to point to the whole “narcissistic abuse” thing and ask you if you’ve ever wondered how that has impacted folks with npd. of course I think both people who have been hurt by islam and people who have been abused by someone with a stigmatized and demonized disorder absolutely should be able criticize that which has, and those who have, hurt them. but! I also think they owe it to those folks who have to deal with the fallout to at least try to criticize and vent in a way that doesn’t just transfer your pain onto them (and further stigmatize and demonize people). 

so to the people who cry about shit like bikinis with the father, the son and the holy spirit printed on it and whine that this would never happen to islam and it’s unfair that christianity gets treated this way, I request that you cry harder and less loudly, because I assure you that your little tear puddle of righteous indignation is infinitesimal compared to the oceans of unending pain your funky little cult has caused countless innocents. 

and to wrap this incoherent mess of my opinion and my feelings up. i think people should be free to follow their own religions and I also think people who have suffered by the hand of those religions are allowed to make art, jokes, sexually explicit material and what have you about those religions to cope with their trauma. but I personally draw the line at obliviously and ignorantly using coping strategies that happen to further contribute to discrimination, stigmatization and demonization of vulnerable people. and lastly I think I should be allowed to hunt the christian god for sport and eat his bones : ) 

#religious trauma #time for my excuses incase this post is hot garbage!! I'm dyslexic and English is not my native language #I try to stay far far faaaaar away from religious things to not be triggered so I'm not sure I've used the correct words for everything #still feel free to (preferably gently) correct me if I miss the mark or add onto this post if you feel like it #though I don't really wanna keep talking about this and especially not debate about this #so please keep that in mind if you wanna reply #not that I think anybody will but I gotta cover my bases just in case #also #is that last sentence genuine or joke? honestly whatever is funnier and numbs the pain better #i will not take criticism about how I talk about christianity from christians but #npd people are allowed to grab me by the ankles and throw me into the sun if my nonsense and potential fuckups were irritating #if you are christian and have npd... you can roundhouse kick me into a dirty pool? #it's 5 am and I'm slowly loosing the plot to my own rant #this is not a foolproof opinion and I haven't polished this rant enough so I know I messed up parts of it but it's how I genuinely feel #at the moment #I'll edit bits of this if I remember tomorrow but I need these thoughts outta my head to sleep #rabid ramblings

[sapphsorrows]

"people only pick on trans people because they're easy targets" yeah no shit they're easy targets just like flat earthers and antivaxxers. what they believe is absolutely fucking insane when you think about it for more than 2 seconds.

the idea of trans is no different from the idea of predestination.

predestination says only those who have been chosen by god will be saved and will go to heaven. how do you know you're predestined? there is literally no way to tell externally. there is no test you take to make sure you're predestined. you just have to put your faith in jesus and know, internally, in your heart, or whatever. funny how literally everyone who believes this also happens to be one of the ~chosen ones~.

the idea of being trans is that some people are born in the wrong body. how do you know you're born in the wrong body? there is literally no external way to tell, aside from maybe a few "am I trans?" quizlets (which as we all know are 100% accurate always and only made by professionals and not 12 year old furries). you just look inside, or whatever, and somehow "know" or you decide for yourself. then, based on your own self-reporting, which you have no way to externally verify, you expect people to bend to your will and you expect society to give you special privileges that no one else gets. no other man gets to pee in the ladies' or compete in women's sports but once you self-id as trans? well, right this way "ma'am", pay no mind to the women cowering in fear of you. their rights don't matter nearly as much as your feelings. funny how damn near everyone who believes in this also happens to be trans themselves, will a few outliers.

even "gender critical" transes like mr. blaire white and ms. buck angel will talk in hours upon hours of videos about the importance of gatekeeping and protecting women's spaces, yet /they/ demand the exact same privileges as every other "fake" (in their words) trans person on tiktok. do you seriously think "fake" trans people are going to listen to you and suddenly not go into the women's? No! are you fucking kidding me? it's so much easier to tell a buck or a blaire to fuck off than it is to a delusional fetishist who will 100% either hurt you or make a scene. there is no "true trans" because EVERYONE claims to be truly trans, everyone from bruce jenner to the "IT IS MA'AM" gamestop dude.

it fucking baffles me how youtube skeptics - people i used to admire, people who taught me how to think critically about shit - will spend all damn day dunking on flat earthers and creationists but will turn a blind eye to the trans cray and will even go as far as to support them. they think they're so above it all and they can't be fooled, but they have been, and I keep waiting for them to snap out of it - just like I waited for my own family to snap out of christianity - but they haven't.

if you seriously think a dress and some hormones and plastic surgery will make a man into a woman, you're insane, and you're no more crazy than a youtuber who thinks antarctica is an ice wall or a pastor who still prays to his "sky daddy". you have no right to make fun of these people for the insane shit they believe when you believe in this nonsense. you are quite literally the pot calling the kettle black.

and if you're one of those people who's like "oh well i know they're not actually women i just call them that to avoid hurting their feelings" im sorry but you're still in this cult, you're physically in but mentally out and the only way to really get out is to call a spade a spade, admit the emperor has no clothes, admit you were fooled just like me - just like all of us - and speak out against it.

#trans cult #gender critical #peak trans

[mossbone]

The recent Dracula Daily updates are interesting to me. This book is infamous for being about the vampiric Horrors, as defined by their sexual immorality and hedonism; unlike our Heroes who are proper and British and christian. And yet...here we see the horrors being compounded and enabled by the rigid social structures emphasizing morality. And for all Bram Stoker's biases, I think that was intentional.

Firstly, the horror is compounded by the Need for Propriety. Lucy is sleepwalking, in nothing but her nightgown! How awful! So awful it is unthinkable as an option to Mina until she sees undeniable proof Lucy left the house. When that is proven true, "ever growing fear chilling my heart" Mina feels turns to "a vague, overmastering fear obscured all details." She then runs through the streets and finally turns to the cliffs, not fearing like Lucy's mother, to see her in danger of falling of the cliffs, but simply fearing to see her safe in their favorite seat—exposed to all the town.

She in fact sees in shadowy detail, an unidentified man leaning over Lucy. Yet..the whole update is strewn with Mina's massive and unfortunately justified fear for her friend's reputation, maybe more than her safety. Did someone take advantage of Lucy, enact some violence or violation of her while she was sleepwalking? Irrelevant, compared to the question: will anyone see them and assume they were up to some promiscuity? After all, she can't help but be "thinking how the story would become distorted—nay, infallibly would—in case it should leak out." There is the psychological horror on top of the nights events, which were traumatic enough.

An indictment of the present state of late Victorian values and their strict judgments already. But then. The consequence of our young heroines being unable to share their story is that Dracula continues to work unnoticed. He will get more victims, he will continue to grow in power and terrorize Lucy and whomever else he wants. Just like Jonathan being trapped in an increasingly abusive work contract because he feels he must stay to the strict matters of politeness [an imbalance of power that work relationships had then and continue to fucking have], here Lucy and Mina are trapped in very clear physical danger because they cannot share the predator hunting them without surely being accused of being a liar and a whore.

Of course, the loved ones of our protagonists are not of that malicious nature at all. If only they could talk to each other freely, Jonathan and Arthur and Lucy's other suitors would obviously not blame her. And Mina, or likely anyone, would help Jonathan recognize the red flags as what they were. But such close communication is impossible given the heavy expectations of the day.

Social standards were very bad and restrictive in 1897, and I think Bram Stoker consistently criticizes how they are with his novel, even while it serves as a cautionary tale against immorality. The solution to sexual abuse and immorality, in his words, is not punishing people for suffering from them or talking about them. I think he is saying this masterfully, as well, by allowing the audience to feel the visceral fear and helplessness through the perspective of the narrators so closely. Unlike many novels of the time which had people near the protagonist serve as cautionary tales and indictments of society, he forces the reader into those shoes through intimate first person narration.

Anyway. Good chapters, huh. Sadly still relevant.

#dracula daily #dracula spoilers #dracula #jonathan harker #mina murray #lucy westenra #dracula daily spoilers

[manykinsmen]

toro rosso reject to five time world champion, or, welcome to the meat grinder: a complete(ish) history of drivers maligned by the red bull family in f1

okay so with all the red bull propaganda floating around, i wanted to explain why that team in particular rubs me the wrong way in the most objective way that i can (i say most objective because i know it cannot be perfectly objective and also i do not want it to be. how we feel emotionally about things is important and i firmly reject any culture that insists that human suffering should take a backseat to pretty numbers). a lot of research went into this and the typing up of this post alone has taken me several days. i have striven for accuracy in my reporting of information, so please let me know if you spot anything incorrect or any typos surrounding dates/numbers.

i will also preface this by saying that no team in formula 1 is an emotionally healthy environment to be - fundamentally most motor racing shouldn’t be set up to have multiple driver teams (i will make an exception for series where they literally share or swap control of the car like endurance racing or extreme e). it doesn’t make sense and almost always ends badly. formula 1’s set up in this regard is the worst of the worst. i am also deeply critical of the entire concept of junior teams and driver academies, which, with a very small handful of exceptions, have been an unmitigated disaster and a breeding ground for psychological problems. this is across all teams that employ them, red bull, mercedes, mclaren and ferrari in particular. red bull operates the biggest machine in this regard, far eclipsing even mercedes, which creates a situation in which the problems of these systems play out on an industrial scale under their banner.

so let’s have a look in detail at the drivers that have succumbed to the red bull meat grinder, going all the way back to 2005. we'll do this mostly in bullet point form for my own sanity and i am going to give their ages at the time, because i wholeheartedly believe it is relevant, given that many of red bull's victims are very young drivers - all but four of them were under 25 when they raced for the red bull family in f1, and it is now widely understood that the human brain doesn't finish developing until after that age, leaving them particularly vulnerable to psychological and emotional strain. this is gonna be long, so buckle up.

a quick notice that we will only be covering individuals who have driven for red bull or toro rosso/alpha tauri in at least one f1 race, not any purely test or developmental drivers, anyone from exclusively from the feeder series or any other motorsports series. please bear in mind that there will be a whole host of other wronged individuals who exist in this category. we will be excluding david coulthard, mark webber, sebastian vettel, daniel ricciardo, max verstappen, sergio perez and yuki tsunoda as these drivers are either currently with red bull/alpha tauri, and therefore their story with them is not complete, or left/retired from them voluntarily, on (mostly) good terms which is not the norm. these individuals have been excluded as outliers. we will also not be talking about liam lawson as there is not enough information about his circumstances. we will also not be covering any unconfirmed rumours of stress-related alopecia afflicting multiple red bull family drivers.

content warning: some of this stuff is very upsetting and in many instances likely meets the definition of psychological/emotional abuse and workplace bullying. i will highlight which specific sections mention night terrors, eating disorders, suicidal behaviour, and the death of anthoine hubert, but please bear in mind that this entire document is varying degrees of unpleasant to harrowing.

a * indicates that driver holds at least one world championship in some form of motorsport series. ** indicates that they are an f1 race winner.

christian klien, red bull (2005-6), aged 22-23

klien was inherited by red bull from jaguar racing, which they bought out, whom he had raced for in his rookie season. it was a relatively unremarkable rookie season, though klien was noticed for his consistency in finishing, retiring just four times.

red bull replaced him after only three races with vitantonio liuzzi (this was because they had two drivers and only one seat, having signed both, - the other was occupied by veteran racer david coulthard - and couldn't decide which they wanted). they flip-flopped between the two drivers over the course of the '05 season.

despite this, klien scored points in two of his three races (the third being a dns with an electrical issue), and twice more over the season.

red bull subsequently bought out minardi, which they renamed toro rosso, to solve their three-driver problem and klien was confirmed for the red bull seat alongside coulthard for the '06 season.

klien qualified in the top 10 for the opening two races of the '06 season and scored points in bahrain. in malaysia he dnfed after colliding with kimi raikkonen. at this point he was viewed by red bull as failing to live up to the expectations of his much more experienced teammate (coulthard had been racing in f1 for twelve years at this point).

despite two further points finishes, mark webber (also more experienced that klien, racing for five years) was signed from williams for klien's seat in '07 before the end of the season and klien was sacked with three races to go, with reserve driver robert doornbos filling his seat.

klien declined a drive for red bull in the indycar series in the united states because he felt his formula 1 story wasn't yet over.

though he admits, he handled his sacking poorly, he has said in 2023: "there was so much going on behind [closed] doors that I was really, really frustrated with the situation and the way it [was] brought up to me, it wasn’t very nice."

he never raced in f1 again, though he was a reserve driver for honda, bmw sauber and hrt from 2007-10).

he went on to pivot to endurance racing, which he has had a long career in, continuing to present, and has written a monthly column for pitpass.com since 2012.

robert doornbos, red bull (2006), aged 26

doornbos originally raced in f1 for minardi alongside christijan albers in the '05 season.

when minardi was bought out by red bull to become toro rosso, neither driver retained their seat at the end of the '05 season. albers moved to spyker, whilst doornbos was left without a seat.

however, christian horner had been a previous team principal of doornbos in f3000 had been recently appointed sporting director of red bull and found doornbos a seat as red bull test/reserve driver.

he was promoted to the red bull second seat for the final three races of the '06 season following klien being dropped.

although he qualified in the top ten in his first race, he failed to bring home any points and was ultimately passed over for the '07 season in favour of mark webber.

doornbos has been quiet about his time at red bull.

he remained as red bull test driver for the '07 season, and raced in two seasons of champcar/indycar. he has been retired from racing since 2010.

vitantonio liuzzi, red bull (2005), toro rosso (2006-7), aged 25-27

we've covered much of liuzzi's story in covering klien's but here are a few extra details:

in the '06 season, liuzzi was given a seat in the newly created toro rosso team.

he scored the team's first points in an eighth place finish after a long battle with nico rosberg in a williams and david coulthard in a red bull (note that this is the standard that klien was failing to live up to in the same season).

liuzzi was confirmed for the '07 season, which went rather badly for him, including crashing into the "wall of champions" in Canada. liuzzi failed to score at all in the first half of the season and there was constant speculation that he and/or his teammate scott speed would be replaced by sebastian vettel and/or champcar champion sebastian bourdais.

after bourdais was announced to have been given the '08 drive in the mid-season, liuzzi's performances actually improved and in china, he overtook mark webber in the red bull to finish fifth.

liuzzi blames his sacking from toro rosso as a problem of too many people having the ear of didi mateschitz, red bull owner, particularly gerhard berger who owned a 50% stake. in 2023, he said: "actually, I stepped out of toro rosso because of berger. in 2007, for politics, he took me out of red bull. if not, i would have stayed there for a really long time. it was done in a bad way… it was really not a fair situation. it was a big shame." he has also been critical of the lack of clarity and constant changes of which criteria were used to judge the drivers' performances.

liuzzi went on to race for force india and hrt between 2008 and 2012, before moving to the superstars series, gt series and eventually formula e.

liuzzi has been retired from racing since 2017.

scott speed, toro rosso (2006-7), aged 23-4

scott speed was a divisive presence in f1, given that he routinely went on the verbal offensive with other drivers and his own team. much of this was attributed to a brash american attitude, though scott has later come out to say that he regrets his behaviour, which he says was a result of the stress he was under at the time.

speed drove for toro rosso in the '06 season, having been a test driver for red bull in '05 at the canadian grand prix. his early races went poorly, with a 13th place finish in bahrain and a retirement with a clutch failure in malaysia.

in the australian grand prix, it looked briefly like speed had scored his first points before he was given a twenty-five second penalty for overtaking under yellow flags, dropping him out of the points from ninth. he was also fined $5000 for using inappropriate language to david coulthard during a hearing with the FIA.

at the french grand prix, speed suffered back pain and breathing problems as a result of a friday practice accident, but raced regardless.

despite a terrible season in which he scored no points, and which saw wild speculation of his replacement, speed was signed again for the '07 season, despite klien not even being offered the demotion to toro rosso.

speed's '07 season was similarly disappointing, with two separate collisions with alexander wurz (who you might remember as current gdpa chair).

the european grand prix would be his last race with the team. it ended in him spinning off in the wet. there were unconfirmed reports afterwards of a physical altercation with franz tost, toro rosso team principal, which tost has always denied. speed accused the team of wanting to get rid of both himself and liuzzi.

despite things seeming to calm down over mid-season testing, at hungary '07, it was announced that speed would be replaced by sebastian vettel.

speed reportedly said that "no amount of money" would see him work with red bull again, but in 2008 he went on to drive for red bull in nascar (it is unclear if he meant red bull in f1 or red bull more broadly). he has also called his contract with toro rosso "absurd" in an episode of beyond the grid.

he raced in nascar until 2013 and has since raced in both rallycross and formula e. he briefly attempted to raced in the indianapolis 500, before deciding that it was too dangerous following the death of his friend dan wheldon. he has not raced since 2021 and now hosts the red bull podcast.

sébastian bourdais, toro rosso (2008-9), aged 29-30*

bourdais' initial foray into the world of formula 1 came before his champcar success, in 2002, with tests for both arrows (who were on the verge of bankruptcy) and renault, where he was ultimately passed over in favour of franck montagny.

he returned to f1 in 2007, gaining several tests with toro rosso after his fourth consecutive champcar title, which would unify with indycar in 2008.

in 2008, he was announced as teammate to sebastian vettel at toro rosso. in his debut race, despite qualifying seventeenth, he managed to overtake his way into fourth place before his engine failed with three laps remaining. having completed more than 90% distance, he was classified eighth and later inherited seventh after rubens barrichello was disqualified.

bourdais went on to bring home points again at belgium, where he qualified ninth, held onto fifth for most of the race and was briefly third, before toro rosso made an incorrect strategy call to stay on dry weather tyres and he was overtaken by several drivers on wets, leaving him seventh. bourdais was visibly close to tears after the race.

at italy, he qualified fourth, but a grid-box problem saw him forced to start from the pitlane. despite being lapped by his teammate, he set the second-fastest lap of the race. in japan he was the victim of a controversial fia penalty (few commentators agreed with it) for causing a collision with felipe massa and was dropped from sixth to tenth (then out of the points). this was, in fact, so controversial after a string of bad fia calls throughout the season that they were forced to release "stewards only" footage to justify the decision. many, including martin brundle, still believed that massa should have been penalised instead.

bourdais was confirmed for toro rosso in the '09 season alongside rookie sebastien buemi, replacing sebastian vettel moving up to red bull following david coulthard's retirement.

despite two points finishes, buemi outscored bourdais and impressed the team greatly. bourdais later struck buemi's car at the spain gp, taking evasive action from a spinning jarno trulli, forcing the retirement of both cars. he then collided with kovalainen in britain and suffered mechanical failure in german, after qualifying last by over a second.

in july, toro rosso announced that bourdais would be replaced by jaime alguersuari for the hungarian grand prix and onwards, with franz tost saying that bourdais had "not met expectations". bourdais had a viable case to sue toro rosso for breach of contract, who later settled with him for $2.1 million to avoid litigation.

bourdais has largely been quiet on his time as part of the red bull family, but has recently accused the team of "poor sportsmanship" and "dirty tactics" in their use of second-driver sergio perez.

following his retirement from formula 1, bourdais has competed in multiple le mans series races, including winning the 24hrs of le mans in 2016. he also returned to indycar and is currently racing in imsa sports car.

sébastien buemi, toro rosso, 2009-11, aged 20-23*

aka, the tale of three sebastians, none of them spelt the same.

buemi was brought into toro rosso in 2009 from the feeder series and his first season with them went, honestly remarkably well. he scored points on multiple occasions, outscored teammate, and rival seb, bourdais and achieved three top ten qualifying positions in a row. he was named best rookie of the season.

he continued to produce results at this level in the '10 season, in spite of one truly spectacular incident in free practice of the chinese grand prix when his suspension failed and jettisoned his two front wheels while he was travelling at over 300kph. one of the wheels went over the safety fence and almost hit a camera man. fortunately no one was hurt. he even outscored teammate alguersuari, with eight points to alguersuari's five.

in 2011, he again produced good results, scoring a total of fifteen points, almost double the previous year. however, despite this and in a surprise move, both he and alguersuari were dropped in december 2011, despite having verbal confirmation from toro rosso that their seats were safe. according to alguersuari, the reason given was that they "weren't winners". this move came so late in the season that neither alguersuari or buemi were able to negotiate for seats at other teams, which may well have been available to them, as they were already filled.

buemi himself has remained fairly quiet about his time as part of the red bull family.

he was retained as a red bull test driver in 2012 and continued to be included on their list of test drivers as recently as 2022.

since leaving f1, buemi has won the world endurance racing champioship on four occasions and the 24 hours of le mans on three. he is one of the most successful drivers in formula e's history, being crowned world champion in 2016, and still races within that series. he is one of the most decorated drivers currently racing outside of f1.

(a personal aside here, buemi's success has as much meaning to me personally as pierre gasly's win after his demotion. imagine being told that you are not a winner, only to go on and win five world championships).

jaime alguersuari, toro rosso (2009-11), aged 19-21

(serious content warning, this one contains descriptions of night terrors and discusses seeking psychological help)

at the time of his arrival, jaime alguersuari was the youngest person ever to race in f1 and only the seventh teenager. he was also the first f1 driver to be born in the 1990s. he is the son of jaime alguersuari sr., a minor motorcycle racer.

alguersuari had little success in the second half of the '09 season, suffering from mechanical failures and retiring in five of the last eight races.

despite this, he secured the drive for '10. in malaysia, he scored his first ever points with franz tost praising his skills and saying he "drove an incredible race". he scored points on two further occasions, completing the series with five and finishing just behind teammate buemi in the standings.

in the '11 season, alguersuari started out badly in the races, in either finishing outside of the points or retiring, despite qualifying impressively.

by the canadian grand prix there were rumours that he would be replaced by daniel ricciardo, who had completed a race for backmarker team hrt. in canada however, he finished eighth for his best ever result.

alguersuari significantly improved, scoring points in seven of the last thirteen races, bringing home a total points haul of twenty six, more than five times his score from the previous year and outscoring teammate buemi.

despite having impressed across the paddock in general and being tipped as a great racer of the future, alguersuari was dropped alongside his teammate, as covered above. alguersuari has repeatedly insisted that he had multiple verbal confirmations that his seat was safe from toro rosso.

since being dropped, alguersuari has been, and continues to be, vocal about the mistreatment of himself and other drivers by the red bull program. here are a few excerpts:

"none of the drivers that are racing for red bull would have had that chance without them. that is crystal clear. but what is also crystal clear is the way they sacked me and my team was not the way they should have done it [...] it was a very quick phone call lasting just one minute. it was a very tough thing, and i didn’t understand why. i still don’t understand why even today [...] they played their cards, and i wasn’t smart enough to move out at the right time. i did have an opportunity to move in abu dhabi in 2011 – that was the contract I needed to sign – and that was the only opportunity I had to sign that contract. i didn’t sign it because i wanted to be faithful to the people who had helped me since i was 15.” - 2023

"i tell you something – when i sleep, i still have very strange dreams of that time, especially about the impotence and the frustration of never making it, of seeing mr. [helmut] marko always angry, telling us off. as if we were children. [...] i have not been able to erase this.i have done therapy, when i retired several psychologists helped me… now, even so, strange things come to my head. and sometimes wake up, like, crying, having dreamt of having done a great lap only to see the face of mr. marko, angry [...] this has created a trauma – and I am convinced that buemi and many others are also going through it." - 2022

alguersuari was prielli test driver 2012-13. he was later one of the founding drivers of formula e in 2014, alongside former teammate buemi and ex-toro rosso drivers liuzzi and vergne. after only a season, he was forced to suspend racing activities after suffering from unexplained fainting spells, which were later resolved. in 2015 he retired from motor racing entirely, at the age of 25, having "fallen out of love" with it. he is now a professional dj and staged a return to competitive karting in 2021. he continues to be a vocal supporter of buemi and spanish compatriot carlos sainz jr.

jean-éric "jev" vergne, toro rosso (2012-14), aged 21-24*

(serious content warning, this one gets very upsetting and talks about eating disorders, extreme dieting, weight restrictions and hospitalisation).

vergne took part in the goodwood festival of speed, driving an f1 car, in 2010. after this, it was announced that he would test for toro rosso in the young drivers test of the same year. he went on to drive in selected free practies in 2011.

he was confirmed to race for toro rosso ahead of the '12 season, alongside teammate daniel ricciardo. in this season, he scored points on only four occasions and after the european grand prix was ruled by the fia to have caused an avoidable collision with heikki kovalainen, resulting in a ten place, double grid drop penalty and a fine of €25,000. he crashed out on one other occasion and had two retirements due to suspension failure. despite a poor showing in that season, he outscored teammate ricciardo with sitxteen points to ricciardo's ten.

in his second season, despite finishing higher in the standings, vergne scored fewer points on fewer occasions. of his five retirements, three were caused by mechanical failure and one was caused by tyre failure (a problem which plagued the entire grid that season and led to questions about pirelli's suitability as manufacturer). he was outscored by teammate ricciardo who scored twenty points to vergne's thirteen and was subsequently promoted to red bull ahead of vergne for the '14 season.

the '14 season proved to be particularly unlucky for vergne, with five dnfs total, all of which came over the course of eight races. despite this he scored points on seven occasions, giving him his best driver's championship finish with twenty two points, giving him 13th place, more than doubling team mate kvyat's score of eight. all but one of his retirements were from mechanical failure, with the final dnf being caused by collision with pastor maldonado (this was no fault of vergne's and collisions with maldonado were a problem that plagued the entire grid this season).

at the end of the '14 season, vergne was initially to be dropped in favour of max verstappen. sebastian vettel's not-unexpected move to ferrari opened up a space at red bull alongside ricciardo, to which kvyat was promoted, despite vergne reporting that the seat had been promised to him in the event of vettel's departure. this would have left a space for vergne at toro rosso, however, he was ultimately dropped from toro rosso and the seat went to carlos sainz jr. vegrne failed to secure an f1 drive for the '15 season and has not raced in f1 since.

it was reported that in the '14 season, between the australian and malaysian gps, vergne had been hospitalised after starving himself to meet new weight regulations (valtteri bottas, then at williams, has also spoken about the eating/exercise disorder he developed around the same time due to the same regulations). this was particularly a problem for the taller and/or more stockily built drivers - vergne is 6ft, tall for an f1 driver. he weighed 69kg to kvyat's 61kg. mclaren even rejected the idea of signing nico hulkenberg because of his weight. adrian sutil, another tall driver, accused other, smaller drivers of repeatedly blocking rule changes aimed at improving conditions for taller/heavier drives.

jean todt, then president of the fia, dismissed the concerns of the drivers at the time and said, specifically about vergne: "i think normally you can do a good diet and not to have to go to hospital because you have been losing so many kilos. i don't think you go to hospital because you are on a diet."

vergne has said about his time with the red bull family: "i will not attack them, because without them I would not be where I am at the moment, but it is a really difficult story for me. when I started in formula 3, [helmut marko] called me and said: ricciardo has shown you how to do it. if you don’t win the championship, you can leave. [vergne says about a second phone call] i was starting on pole and eventually i won that race, but Marko thought it was unacceptable that i had not also taken the fastest lap. that’s just how he is.” - 2019

"since it was announced mid-year that I would be out of toro rosso it would have looked very bad if, when vettel decided to leave for Ferrari, that he had called me back to go to red bull. during this frank conversation with helmut, i said what if vettel leaves. he told me vettel would not leave. And I said but what if. and he said you’d be the next one to go to red bull. but so yeah… we found out on the saturday or the friday that vettel was going to ferrari and red bull wanted to respond straight away and they announced kyvat in the morning without talking to anyone. it was a tough moment and then of course franz tost wanted to keep him, he wanted an experienced driver together with max but once again red bull could not say we are going to keep vergne and there was another driver coming with carlos sainz so they put him in the car. i wish helmut would have done it as it did with many other drivers and wait until the last race of the season to tell them because if he had waited, with the grands prix i had done before Japan [and vettel’s announcement], i was in a much stronger position to go to red bull racing than kvyat.” - 2021

"i did not smile for three years." - 2019

vergne moved to the newly formed formula e, where he has raced ever since. he is the only driver to have won two formula e world championship titles, which he did back to back in 2018 and 2019. he currently races for ds penske alongside fellow champion stoffel vandoorne.

daniil kvyat, toro rosso (2014), red bull (2015-16), toro rosso/alphatauri (2017, 2019-20), aged 19-25

(serious content warning, this one's really fucking heavy and involves depressive episodes and possible suicidal behaviour. also, sorry if you're a sebastian vettel fan, he's partly to blame here).

kvyat first came to the attention of the red bull junior driver program in 2009, after winning the karting winter cup in the kf3 category. he remained with red bull throught his time in the motorsports feeder series and was given a drive at toro rosso for the '14 season, alongside returning driver vergne.

he had an average rookie season, scoring points on five occasions, with a best finish of ninth, which was significantly outscored (as expected) by his more experienced teammate. all five of his retirements were caused by mechanical failure. depsite this, he was advanced to red bull ahead of vergne, who ultimately failed to secure a drive in f1.

kvyat's '15 season at red bull was impressive for a driver with limited experience. he scored points on all but five occasions and achieved a second-place podium finish, become the second-youngest driver ever to achieve this (at the time). he failed to start on one occasion and dnfed on another due to engine failure. his other dnf, however, came after crashing into teammate ricciardo, whose race was significantly impeded as a result.

despite ricciardo's race win, kvyat outscored his teammate in the '15 season by three points.

in the '16 season, kvyat was demoted to toro rosso after just four races, one of which he failed to start. despite scoring points in bahrain and finishing in third-place in china, red bull opted to swap kvyat and toro rosso driver max verstappen after kvyat's home race of the russian grand prix, in which he finished fifteenth. he struck the ferrari of sebastian vettel at the end of the first lap, retiring vettel's car and severely impeding his own race.

after the chinese gp, vettel slammed kvyat's "suicidal" driving, following his collision with teammate kimi raikkonen on turn one while taking avoiding action around kvyat, despite the stewards taking no action and many suggesting that vettel was in fact to blame. vettel finished second and was in the cool down room ahead of the podium with kvyat when he laid into him on live television. he subsequently dubbed kvyat "the torpedo".

after the russian gp, many news outlets and social media accounts noted that kvyat appeared morose and depressed, as well as reporting that he had removed all information from his social media bio to say "just a human". multiple social media posts from fans described kvyat as looking "suicidal" or stated that red bull/toro rosso must be on "suicide watch".

of the swap, christian horner said: "dany will be able to continue his development at toro rosso, in a team that he is familiar with, giving him the chance to regain his form and show his potential."

kvyat, who many continued to note looked extremely depressed for the rest of the season, score on only three occasions with toro rosso in the '16 season. despite this, and despite speculation that he would be dropped altogether, he was re-signed for the '17 season.

the '17 season went poorly for kvyat, who was plagued with mechanical failures as well as retirements due to driver error. he scored points on only three occasions and was replaced by pierre gasly from the malaysian gp onwards, although he returned for the us gp to replace carlos sainz jr, who had moved to renault, before being replaced again by brendon hartley, with helmut marko confirming that kvyat would not be returning to toro rosso for the '18 season.

despite being considered for williams in the '18 season, kvyat failed to secure a drive and spent the season as ferrari reserve driver.

kvyat rejoined toro rosso ahead of the '19 season, replacing pierre gasly who had been promoted to red bull. he raced alongside rookie teammate alex albon. he put in strong performances, finishing in the points on ten occasions and bringing home a third-place podium at the german gp. however, two of his three retirements were caused by collisions, in one of which kvyat was deemed by the fia to be at fault, adding to his growing, but largely unfair, reputation at "the torpedo" (in the other, ricciardo locked up and collided with kvyat, reversing into him whilst attempting to rejoin the race).

despite his good results, he was outscored in the early part of the season by temmate albon, and kvyat remained at toro rosso whilst albon was promoted mid-season to replace pierre gasly who was demoted.

kvyat continued at toro rosso, now rebranded as alphatauri in the '20 season. despite scoring well, scoring points in seven of the seventeen races (including one shock third place podium, toro rosso’s first since sebastian Vettel in 2008) and retiring only twice (once in a collision, which may have been caused by a tyre puncture rather than driver error, and one with suspension failure), he was outmatched by teammate gasly who claimed the team's first win since sebastian vettel at the italian grand prix. gasly finished the season with more than twice kvyat's total points (seventy-five to kvyat's thirty-two).

alphatauri chose not to renew kvyat's contract for the '21 season, electing instead to give the seat to the rookie yuki tsunoda. kvyat was reserve driver, alongside zhou guanyu, for alpine in the '21 season but has not raced in f1 since.

kvyat has been vocal about his poor treatment by the red bull family, saying: "from toro rosso to red bull, not easy of course. it’s a different f1 team, the top and the midfield has a different mentality. also, very difficult times for the team. everyone was very stressed. It was the opposite of now, now they have a dominant car, at the time, it was one of their worst cars. christan [horner] wasn’t happy. helmut [marko] wasn’t happy. so, they were difficult times at red bull. so to basically help them get through their shittiest times, and then they get rid of you.. but whatever, it was still a great chapter.” - 2023

he also said: "obviously the decision in a way was a bit of a shock also for myself.  one week I was standing on the podium and then suddenly there were a few decisions made around. as i said, the bosses make them and I have nothing else but to accept them and do my best job possible now in the team i am with – and it is toro rosso. it should be ok – i think I have done everything correctly until now. and nothing will change from my side [...] i really felt betrayed then, it was a knife in the back, but that’s part of life. sometimes that happens, it’s normal. it is now in the past." - 2023

"the truth is after 2016, i didn’t really want to be there [at toro rosso]. zero motivation. i didn’t like working for them and every time i woke up, i was like, i have to go drive the car again with them. so it wasn’t very enjoyable at the time. in 2017, it was difficult because I had zero motivation and carlos was extremely motivated. and then if you go with this mentality against a motivated carlos, there’s no point. so for me i wish i had a chance with someone else in F1. red bull gave me a lot but since we had our issues, it was very difficult. and I didn’t have a lot of motivation to be there." - 2023

although kvyat entered the world endurance championship in 2022, he was forced to withdraw after the fia introduced limiting conditions to the ability of russian drivers to compete following the russian invasion of ukraine. kvyat called these conditions "unfair and descriminatory." he made three starts in nascar in 2022 and is currently testing in formula e, with a view to gaining a full drive in the '24 season.

carlos sainz jr., toro rosso (2015-17), aged 20-23**

sainz, son of successful rally cross racer carlos sainz sr., joined the red bull junior team in 2010 while racing in formula bmw. he then moved up the feeder series, taking part in the f1 young drivers' test in 2013. he joined the toro rosso team ahead of the '15 season.

in his debut race he qualified inside the top ten and ultimately finished ninth, scoring points. he went on to score points in seven of the ninteen races, only finishing an additional four. all eight of his retirements were caused by technical issues. despite his good results teammate verstappen more than doubled his score and was ultimately advanced to red bull over sainz early in the '16 season.

during his second season at toro rosso, he scored a total of forty six points, two and half times his score of the previous season and more than 2/3 of the teams total points.

in his third season for toro rosso, sainz continued to improve his scores, including a fourth place finish for toro rosso in singapore. despite this, sainz publicly commented that it was "unlikely" that he would stay with toro rosso during the austrian gp. this was refuted by christian horner who insisted that sainz would race for toro rosso in the '18 season.

despite scoring forty eight of toro rosso's fifty two points at that point in the season, sainz was "loaned" to renault from the us grand prix onwards, following the departure of jolyon palmer. he went on to end his relationship with red bull at the end of the season, leaving toro rosso for a full drive at renault.

though sainz has not spoken openly about his relationship with red bull, helmut marko said:

"we did not send sainz away and it is not for nothing that we were once very early to sign him. verstappen and sainz were very well matched, but we had no opportunity to offer him more [than a place at toro rosso]. he was not convinced of the future prospects at toro rosso. he felt he was not moving forward and he did not want to wait any longer. we first loaned him out and then we canceled the contract completely. after all, we did not want to stand in the way of his future." - 2021.

marko has also been critical of the involvement of carlos sainz sr. in his son's career, saying that his father is "one of those motorsports fathers who doesn't look at it objectively, which is understandable, and just always does what he thinks is best for his son." - 2021

sainz's time at renault was regarded as unsuccessful but later moves to mclaren and then ferrari proved fruitful. sainz still races in f1 with ferrari and is now a multiple race-winning driver.

brendon hartley, toro rosso (2017-18), aged 27-30*

hartley arrived in f1 as an fia wec champion, which he had won in 2015.

he had previously worked as a test driver for both red bull (2008-10) and mercedes (2012-13). he was dropped from his role as red bull test driver at the end of 2010, with red bull citing his failure to win a race during that season of formula renault 3.5 (for context, fellow test driver and teammate daniel ricciardo won the series).

he was initially brought in to race in the stead of pierre gasly at the 2017 us gp. gasly was absent in order to compete in the final round of the super formula championship. hartley's qualifying performance was marred by an engine grid drop penalty and he eventually finished the race in thirteenth.

he remained a toro rosso driver for the rest of the season, replacing kvyat. he failed to score any points, and retired in two of the three remaining races with mechanical failure, as well as taking a ten place grid drop penalty for changing power units.

in the '18 season, hartley scored points on only three occasions, finishing the season twenty five points behind teammate pierre gasly. he retired on five occasions, three caused by technical issues. overall his season was marred by a host of car related issues and associated grid drop penalties.

toro rosso announced hartley's replacement with alex albon at the end of the '18 season.

of his time with in the red bull family, hartley has said:

"of course, I would have liked to have stayed longer and kept progressing. i developed a lot during that season and I was doing a very good job at the end of the year. we didn’t have the car to finish in the points all the time. i learnt so much from that season.  some things were tough. [...] sometimes some of the questions the media was asking or rumours. Sometimes you are under the microscope. i didn't always enjoy that. but again, it taught me a lot and it made me a lot stronger as a driver coming out the other side of that.  i look back really only positively. absolutely no regrets. i gave it my best shot. there are only 20 cars on the grid." - 2023

hartley went on to drive a brief stint in formula e. he has continued in endurance racing and now holds three wec titles and three 24hrs of le mans titles, and like buemi is one of the most decorated drivers racing outside of f1.

pierre gasly, toro rosso (2017), red bull (2018-19), toro rosso/alphatauri (2019-2022), aged 21-26**

(serious content warning, this one covers the death of anthonie hubert).

gasly joined the red bull junior drivers team whilst competing in formula renault 3.5 in 2014. he was named red bull reserve driver in 2015 and made one appearance in formula e at the 2017 new york eprix, racing for renault. gasly made his debut in f1 for toro rosso in 2017 at the malaysian gp, replacing daniil kvyat, however he was forced to miss the us gp as he was racing concurrently in the super formula championship, the final round of which clashed. he failed to score any points in the five races he drove in in the '17 season, but did finish every race.

in the '18 season, he was given the drive at toro rosso alongside brendon hartley. he impressed, bringing home a total of twnty-nine points (compared to hartley's four) and scoring points on five occasions. three of his five dnfs were caused by mechanical failure, and of the two collisions, one was not gasly's fault as grosjean's tyres created a smoke screen eliminating both gasly and hulkenberg who were unable to see.

gasly was promoted to red bull for the '19 season, after daniel ricciardo left the team to go to renault. despite finishing in the points on nine occasions, with only two retirements (one due to mechanical failure, the other crashing into toro rosso driver alex albon), gasly was demoted to toro rosso ahead of the italian gp (the thirteenth round). this was after poor qualifying results, a couple of crashes and being lapped by teammate verstappen at the hungarian gp, who was much outperforming him (surprising no one). both christian horner and helmut marko confirmed that gasly would stay at red bull until the end of the season when rumours that gasly would be demoted began circumlating, but this proved to be false.

christian horner said of the demotion that the team needed to be able to "make an informed decision as to who will drive alongside max [verstappen] in 2020" and that "we desperately need [gasly] realising more of the potential of the car."

an ex-f1 senior systems engineer at red bull, although he professes to have heard this second hand, has also claimed on social media that Gasly got “quite vocal with adrian [newey] over the set-up of the car. it became a bit of a shouting match in the garage and then once that happened you know in front of Marko and that it was back to the sister team you go.” - Dan - EngineMode11 (on social media)

ahead of the belgian gp, his first race since being demoted, gasly's "best mate", anthoine hubert, was killed in the f2 support race. gasly was particularly affected by the death. christian horner sought out gasly ahead of the race and, self-reportedly said: "so all i could do was try to offer some support and say that anthoine was doing exactly what he wanted to do, and 'if he had the opportunity to be racing the formula 1 car that you're in tomorrow, he would have grabbed that opportunity with both hands."

despite the demotion, gasly achieved five more points finishes, including one second-place podium, toro rosso's best finish since sebastian vettel in 2008. he scored thirty two points for toro rosso (and ninty-five overall) compared to teammate kvyat's ten in the same period.

gasly was retained by the team for the '20 season and following the rebrand to alphatauri, again alongside kvyat. he scored points on ten occasions, with three dnfs (twice due to mechanical failure and once in a multi-car pile up). his early success, even before his win at the italian gp, led to widespread speculation that he would be promoted back to red bull after showing much improvement.

at the italian gp, gasly finished first, scoring toro rosso's second ever win. this was made possible through taking advantage of an early safety car and lewis hamilton receiving a penalty. even so, gasly demonstrated skill in overtaking lance stroll and holding off a charging carlos sainz jr. though franz tost praised gasly, he dismissed the possibility of him returning to red bull any time soon. he scored 75 points total that season, outscoring kvyat.

gasly dedicated his win to anthoine hubert, who he revealed had texted him ahead of the '20 belgium gp with the words "prove them wrong", which became a personal mantra.

despite his success, and the firing of alex albon, gasly was passed over for promotion to red bull. instead, the seat went to non-red bull family driver sergio perez.

he continued to impress in the '21 season, scoring a total of one hundred and ten championship points and securing a third place podium, as well as outscoring rookie teammate tsunoda (as expected), and was again passed-over for promotion in favour of retaining perez, who had received mixed reviews.

a visibly frustrated gasly did not score as well in the '22 seson, partly owing to an uncompetitive car. he scored only twenty three points and left alphatauri of his own volition for a drive at alpine in the '23 season. he was replaced by rookie nyck de vries.

gasly has been vocal about his treatement by red bull, even during his time at alphatauri (which many believe to be part of the reason he was repeatedly passed over for promotion).

of his time with the red bull family, gasly has said: " "from the moment I made my first mistake in a car, i felt like people there slowly began to turn on me. i'd had a crash in winter testing and from that moment on the season never really got going. then i had a tough first two races with red bull and the media just ate me up. anything i said in the press was twisted into an excuse for my form, and nobody really stuck up for me. the car wasn’t perfect and i was doing my best to try to improve and learn each week. but here’s what i’ll say about it – it was a difficult time for me at red bull because i didn’t feel like i was really supported and treated the same way as others there have been. And for me, that’s something i just can’t accept. i was working my ass off every day, trying to get results for the team, but i was not being given all the tools i needed to succeed. i would try to offer solutions but my voice wasn’t heard, or it would take weeks to see changes. for whatever reason, i was never going to be a fit in that seat — it was just never going to work. i’m not the type of person to start stuff in the media because i am truly grateful to red bull for the chance, as well as for everything they have done for me in my career. i really am. but i’m allowed to tell my truth.” - 2021

gasly now races at alpine alongside esteban ocon.

(personal aside, i find what christian horner said to pierre after anthoine hubert's death horrifying and morally bankrupt. if someone has lost their best friend in a racing accident on the same track they are due to race in the following day, there should be no form of pressure on them whatsoever to race. staff at red bull have repeatedly referred to, directly or indirectly, drivers wanting to cancel a race or to choose not to race personally following a major accident as some kind of cowardly. this is simply not true and it is my opinion that they should be publicly reprimanded by the fia and their peers for such behaviour).

alex albon, toro rosso (2019), red bull (2019-20), aged 22-24

albon became part of the red bull academy in 2012, but was dropped the same year. initially he was contracted to appear in formula e in the '19 season, racing with nissan, but his contract was cancelled to allow him to race for toro rosso in f1.

in his debut season, albon raced for toro rosso for only twelve races before being promoted to red bull, to replace the demoted gasly. his results had been fair to good, scoring points on five occasions, with a best finish of sixth. he retired only once in a collision that was no fault of his own.

after being promoted ahead of the belgian gp, albon finished in the points on all but one occasion, with a best finish of fourth, though he failed to gain a podium place (the goal for red bull at the time). his fourteenth place finish came after being struck and sent into spin by hamilton.

in the '20 season, albon finished in the points on all but four occasions, gaining two third-place podiums. both dnfs were caused by mechanical failure. he brought home a total of 105 points and finished seventh in the championship. despite these ostensibly good results, especially for someone who had only raced two seasons in f1, albon was dropped ahead of the '21 season after being significantly outperformed by teammate verstappen.

about his time at red bull, albon has said: "this isn’t to throw shade at anyone at red bull racing or max or anything, honestly. but the car is set up in a unique way that is built around the lead driver, and that’s max. and, look, i totally get why. i mean, when all is said and done, he might be the greatest driver of all time. but he has a very distinct style of driving, and he likes the car set up a certain way that’s hard for a lot of drivers to sync up with. of course, you can tinker and tweak your own car, but just the red bull in general is suited to max’s style. i like a lot of front end and nose. I’ve been teammates with george and charles and i've always had way more nose than them. and when i got into the red bull … i mean there was so much nose on the thing that if you blew on the wheel the car would turn. if you play call of duty, or a game like that, turn your sensitivity up to the highest it will go. that’s what it’s like to drive that car." - 2023

he has also said "it was the experience that was missing." - 2022

albon remained at red bull as reserve driver for the '21 season , as well as taking on a coaching role for rookie alphatauri driver yuki tsunoda, before securing a drive at williams for the '22 season. he continues to race there.

nyck de vries, alphatauri (2023), aged 28*

prior to racing in f1, nyck de vries raced in formula e for mercedes, where he was crowned champion in 2021. he also served as a test driver for mercedes f1, williams and aston martin.

he made his debut in f1 racing for williams in 2022 after being called up as reserve driver to race in place of alex albon, who was suffering from appendicitis.

he impressed during his debut, scoring points after finishing in ninth and being awarded driver of the day by fans.

despite much speculation that he would sign for williams in 2023, replacing nicholas latifi, de vries was successfully poached by alphatauri, replacing pierre gasly.

de vries failed to score any points in his races for alphatauri, with his highest finish being twelfth. he retired once due to driver error. after early speculation that he would lose his seat, he was dropped less than half way through the season after the end of the british grand prix, alphatauri forgoing the typical season's grace afforded to rookies. he was replaced by daniel ricciardo.

though de vries has yet to speak in any detail about his time with the red bull family, christian horner has said that the decision was made to replace him after daniel ricciardo performed well in eleven laps of testing. he said: "it all happened a little quicker than expected, bearing in mind we hadn’t completed the test [...] helmut spoke with nyck – you know, he was the one that obviously had recruited him – so he was the one that spoke with nyck about lap 11 of the test it was becoming a difficult situation for nyck, but there was a high expectation on him because, whilst inexperienced in formula 1, he’s obviously a very experienced driver. i think there was a general feeling that nyck wasn’t quite hitting the mark. and then the question was, what are the options if we were to switch things around? the situation was clear. It was a question of, okay, what’s the point in waiting? that would have meant obviously leaving him in the car until after the summer break."

de vries has since returned to formula e with mahindra racing.

so there you have it, the complete(ish) history of red bull crimes against their drivers, going all the way back to the beginning. i hope that you take this information and use it to make an informed decision about whether you personally want to support red bull and/or alphatauri in f1 (as teams, not the drivers individually). i personally cannot support any red bull family team in f1 because of this history of psychological/emotional abuse of their drivers and work place bullying. i am aware that this behaviour is not unique to red bull, but red bull display possibly the most extensive history of it, despite only coming into being in 2005. likewise they have made no effort to correct or acknowledge their wrongdoings.

#red bull #christian klien #robert doornbos #vitantonio liuzzi #scott speed #sébastian bourdais #sébastien buemi #jaime alguersuari #jean-éric vergne #jev #daniil kvyat #carlos sainz jr #brendon hartley #pierre gasly #alex albon #nyck de vries #good god this post took forever to write and was emotionally draining as all hell #but it's super duper important for people to know and to see all the information written down in a single document is incredibly important #it conveys the sheer industrial scale of the meat grinder #whatever you think of the drivers as racers there is no excuse for the treatment that they have endured #every single driver on the grid deserves dignity and respect as a human being

[familyabolisher]

re: this post, would you perhaps be able to reword it? i understand the words you're using individually, and i think i might kind of get what you're trying to say, but it's just one very long sentence and so i'm having trouble parsing it! (wait--i just reread it. initial question canceled, mostly--now: what alternatives might we have available to us?) and what does this section: "it feels all too easy to jump from that to then just stymieing our ability to actually describe the textual violences necessary to the discursive construction of that normativity in the first place" mean, exactly? thank you as always for running this blog. :-)

What I’m describing is a critical phenomenon wherein people will approach (usually canonical) horror texts which reify hegemony by ‘identifying’ with the monster who is generally figured in terms of alterity in some capacity; by extricating, for example, a queer narrative out of what is in fact a homophobic one, and treating this as something of a ‘reclamatory’ practice in which one ‘relates’ to that which the text figures as monstrous. The most common instance of this which I see is people’s discussion of Carmilla as an erotic lesbian romance; other examples include Dracula, or Frankenstein, or the socially currency invested in the idea of a ‘madwoman in the attic’ (ie. Jane Eyre).  

I don’t think this is like, a practice that we need to do away with entirely, lol – but I do think that a) there are marginalised writers + filmmakers who are making horror with actual teeth, with actual radical edge, and we don’t need to keep pretending like this approach of reclamation-through-identification with a monster in a v normative work is all we have available to us when politically subversive horror does very much exist, and b) this critical practice is often vvv limited in its discursive scope, and tends to lack the kind of materialist analysis that I would consider necessary in talking about literatures of alterity/marginality/violence.

When I talked about stymieing our ability to describe the textual violences necessary to the discursive constructions of that normativity in the first place, I meant that overfocusing on these texts as “reclaimed” articulations of an essentially queer (or otherwise ‘othered’) imaginary can inhibit our ability, as critics, to describe how those texts in fact do not think of their monstrous figures as worthy of a sympathetic or appreciative narrative. I mentioned Carmilla above – we can talk about Carmilla as erotically lesbian, sure, but how far down the line in talking about it as a Queer Narrative do we lose track of the fact that the text itself asserts the sexual norms of white Christian hegemony to necessarily succeed over the perversion of the corruptive, predatory lesbian, or as an Anglo-Irish work positing Carmilla as an Irish woman (and thus a contaminant threat to Anglo-Irish society)? At what point in adulating Dracula as articulating a particular form of queer, effeminate Jewishness destabilising and threatening Jonathan and Mina’s persistent heterosexuality do we lose track of Dracula as having grown out of the fear that the new waves of Jewish immigration in London’s East End were vampiric sources of contagion, or its possible relationship to the antisemitic smears that grew out of the Jack the Ripper murders? Or like, taking Bertha Mason (or ‘the madwoman in the attic,’ because truly, v few people using this phrase are actually thinking about Bertha Mason lol) as a kind of feminist paragon – at what point do we begin to overlook the fact that Jane Eyre is a v racist text?

These aren’t necessarily contradictory approaches – like, for example, you can talk about ‘identifying’ with Dracula as emblematic of British Jewish assimilation and the discontents thereof whilst also talking about Dracula as an antisemitic text, even if the analysis in the former isn’t especially coherent – but the focus of the ‘identification’ treatment is often incredibly limited in its scope, and those limitations can often be detrimental to one’s ability to talk frankly and honestly about what a text actually says and does. A very good example such limitations is that of Frankenstein; an identification with Frankenstein’s monster as an entrypoint for textual analysis obfuscates the way in which Frankenstein constructed a discursive template by which the ameliorationist argument against the immediate abolition of slavery could be argued for. (The linked post lays this out v clearly, but the cited source is Mary Mulvey’ Roberts’ ‘Mary Shelley, Frankenstein, and Slavery,’ in Dangerous Bodies: Historicising the Gothic Corporeal). What I basically mean is, when we talk about relating to, identifying with, ‘reclaiming’ the monster, we have to have a real grasp on what it is we’re trying to impose such a practice on, and what the actual substance of the source text has to say for itself. I’m not one for assuming a text as a body with a set of metaphysical properties that we as critics are tasked to find – I think the relationship between text and reader ought to be dialectical – but part of that dialectical process means situating the text in its material social context and responding appropriately.

#ask

[dreikit-23]

There is a Rampant and Vicious Cycle in the Online Left That Needs to Be Addressed

Every leftist needs to understand that not every proclaimed leftist is a safe person or one that is acting in good faith. Many people in this sphere --even if they are minorities themselves-- are Abusers. Let me be clear: they are Abusers REGARDLESS of --NOT because of-- them being a minority. Despite this, many of them have weaponized their standing as a minority in order to get away with their behavior and achieve what they see as some form of power and control over others. Let me be clear. I am referring to those that:

Manipulate and lie about pressing situations (especially when it's to harm another person or demographic)

Excessively use idpol to either elevate themselves to holier than thou levels ("listen to ___ people but only when it's something I agree with, which just so happens to devolve from constructive change to making others grovel and plead forgiveness endlessly before me") or belittle others (ie their skin color, gender, queerness, disability, neurodivergence, religion, age, etc.) in order to discount their point or not treat them as equal human beings; yes, even if their skin tone is white or if they are men, abuse does not have to be backed up by systemic issues in order to be abusive or at the very least harmful (sidenote: this does not apply to people talking about their experiences as a minority that is otherwise not experienced or understood by others, the issue I'm pointing out is when it's twisted to cover everything not directly tied to their identity and proclaim themselves as the only ones allowed to be the voice of reason, therefore shutting up everyone else and to avoid any constructive criticism or discussion)

Act on rage and at times even trauma to bring forth harmful ideals (ex: truly hating every person of a demographic, wishing for a genocide, making actual death or rape threats towards someone or a group, conversion, etc)(sidenote: I'm not discounting those that have trauma and even have harmful thoughts, just please seek help and understand that it is not healthy nor sustainable to paint or alter reality to be in line with what trauma makes you believe)

Actively try to get others they don't agree with to either permanently leave the internet or commit suicide and even celebrate when either happens

Excessively test others on their "purity" on unachievable standards to the detriment of everyone and Leftism as a whole (purity culture is fueled by christian culture in order to disguise doomerism, accepting defeat when change is not possible, of which is the very thing that will kill leftism)

Infight over weird made up issues (remember how divide and conquer is a war strategy? To split hairs and discount others for non-issues is to do the work of conservatives and nazis for them)

Shut down people or discussions over minor slights such as using an incorrect word/phrasing or any numerous perceived mistakes (example I've seen here: berating a person with schizophrenia (or a trans person or any other minority) for using a derogatory term for themselves when they're talking about how everyone else is speaking over them and not listening), ignoring the hypocrisy or not taking into account any number of mundane causes such as non-native english speakers, generational gaps, being in the process of learning (either recovering from harmful beliefs or simple ignorance), using those terms to prove a point (such as that example I mentioned above), neurodivergence, etc.

Not letting others talk about their experiences of oppression when those experiences don't match theirs, instead opting to call those people bigoted for contrived reasons

A rejection of nuance, intersectionalism, and even reality to better suit their goals (ex: claiming that every trans man benefits from the patriarchy and can never experience misogyny)

Misuse of therapy speak and terminology in order to water down those terms and render them near meaningless so they can weaponize them under the pretense of their original use (ex: gaslighting), or to cut off any need to connect or sympathize with other human beings and instead speak to them like a PR message (refer to this video by Zena and Poppy for reference)

They never speak on true leftist/progressive ideals or positive change, they only engage in destructive discourse or any behavior listed above

Making baseless dangerous accusations towards someone they don't like. Before you go harr harr you're doing that, I'm not calling out any specific person and am merely listing dangerous behaviors I've seen people here act out. What I am referring to are when someone casually calls someone specific a predator (or whatever else) with absolutely zero proof and expecting everyone to believe them no questions asked. This has been shown to ruin people's lives

Any other similar behaviors not included in this list (as well as classic logical fallacies), but what I've mentioned above should paint you a good picture

Every example I've pointed out were REAL EVENTS I've seen from people that proclaim themselves as leftists or even just progressive, and sometimes are even minorities themselves (some even infight against their own communities using the behaviors listed above, often out of internalized bigotry)(an example of a real event that happened here recently were when several people were making rape threats towards a trans man by the username of @a-faggot-with-opinions). To be blunt, I'm pointing out exclusionism in practically every form, asexual discourse, transandrophobia, TERFs/radfems, TEHMs, tankies, "cornbreadtube", nationalists and ethnonationalists, and all else I don't have the terminology for For many of the people that fall under that bullet list I would hesitate to even refer to them as leftist or progressive, as they never seem to actually show they act on it or even believe in it, only making an appearance in those communities for their own destructive personal gain; hell, often times they have ideals that directly go against what those communities stand for! Examples include TERFs with white supremacist beliefs, transandrophobes that are misogynistic, ethnonationalists that are antisemitic, puritans that are ableist, the list goes on forever. Once you know what to look for, you can see the hidden or overt bigotry behind their false "progressive" statements

No one is infallible No one is better than everyone else You are not immune to propaganda No one is immune from behaving abusively

These people are dangerous, whether they actually qualify as abusers --as I've been referring to them as such for brevity and impact-- or are people that are engaging in hurtful or fully abusive behavior (use this paragraph as a disclaimer, I of course can't know if someone is an abuser in real life unless there is documented evidence of such). Regardless, they are hurting the left and are letting the right win

If you see any of these behaviors either 1) take caution if you're unsure, 2) block them, or 3) if you have the fortitude, call them out. Either way, use your best judgement and think for yourself (or discuss with good faith leftists if you're uncertain). And remember, often times (albeit not always) they are actually fully aware of their disgusting behavior and are choosing to act maliciously, not ignorantly.

Stay safe, log off, do what you can to support your local community and leftism as a whole, don't let these people distract from the real issues at hand. Have empathy, if you don't have empathy then act in compassion, if you don't or refuse to do either please do not engage in politics. Misanthropy has no place in matters concerning humanity.

And remember: we have to stand together in unity so we can create a better future for all

#politics #leftism #online left #discourse #tw abuse #tw rape mention #tw genocide mention #tw bigotry #racism #transphobia #transandrophobia #purity culture #vent #this goes for several issues I haven't mentioned whether due to a lack of proper wordage or expertise due to not being part of those groups #I'm a non-native english speaker who is autistic be aware of that if I do misphrase something #Poppy and Zena: Wholesome Degenerates is an excellent youtube channel please check them out #if anyone argues here in bad faith feel free to use this post as a free block list #had so much to say but now I can get back to shitposting les go

[what-even-is-thiss]

could you share your thoughts on Christianity and the lgbt community? Not in a like "'oh yeah well how are you this and that if you're REALLY Christian"' kind of way, I'm asking from the perspective of someone who's been struggling with their spirituality because I don't know how I can believe and god and also be gay. Feel free not to answer this though, you shouldn't have to explain yourself to random people every time you mention your religion

There’s not a lot of mentions of what we would consider to be homosexuality in the Bible. Paul mentions it most explicitly but there’s some important things to remember about Paul. First, he’s just some guy. He did important work spreading the religion but that doesn’t mean that he’s right about everything. Second, his only exposure to homosexuality likely came from the Roman elite. And the way they did it usually involved raping slave boys and hiring young prostitutes. They didn’t usually have same sex relations in the way we think of them now. Men didn’t generally have romantic relationships with each other into adulthood and a full adult citizen being passive during sex was considered to be scandalous. Any actual romantic relationships between adults of the same sex were likely kept secret or at least weren’t talked about loudly. So Paul is living in this environment. And people aren’t completely separate from the environments they live in.

For the most part stuff in the Bible that’s translated as condemning homosexuality is referring to certain cultural practices common in the Mediterranean at the time that we also wouldn’t like today. Such as pederasty, also known as a romanticized form of pedophilia that even people at the time in cultures that practiced it heavily criticized. Consenting adults often did have romantic or sexual relations together but they weren’t commonly open about it.

Overall, the Bible just doesn’t have much to say about liking someone of the same gender if you look at instances outside of things alluding to some of the worse stuff the Greeks and Romans did. So if the Bible doesn’t say much about it, that leaves it up to us to logically deduce our personal feelings about it.

Okay. So what are the two main commandments Jesus gives us? Love your neighbor as yourself, and love god with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. Basically: love God, love others, love yourself. These are said to be the rules that all other commandments stem from and supersede all other commandments in terms of importance.

So. Does being queer stop you from loving God? Loving others? Loving yourself?

Science is real. It helps us learn more and more about the universe God created all the time and science has proven time and time again that being queer isn’t a choice and that people are happier when they live more authentically.

God made you the way you are. You cannot control whether you’re queer or not. So it’s not a mistake in you that can be “fixed”. If humans were made in the image of God, you too are an image of God. So some tiny part of God, however small, looks like you. All of you. Including the queer parts.

So then. Are you loving God? Including the parts of God that are like you? Are you loving your fellow humans? Including your fellow lgbt humans? Are you doing your best to love yourself? Every part of yourself?

I don’t take the Bible fully literally. You can’t. It contradicts itself constantly. But even if you did, the world it was written for and the society that made the oral traditions it was based on no longer exist. At least not in the exact same way they once did. What the Bible does have in it is stories that can give us examples and have informed the formation of our culture as Christians. Christianity has changed a lot over the last 2,000 years. Many forms of it have come and gone. Ultimately it’s up to us as modern Christians what kind of world we want to be apart of and contribute to and what culture we want to make among ourselves. I can’t pretend to know the true nature of God but I do know that God inspires me to reduce suffering and speak up for injustice where I can.

Ultimately your interpretation is up to you. But I personally don’t see needless self flagellation over something you can’t control as an act of justice or love. Just a form of self torture that’s ultimately not adding much to the world. Adding some of your own happiness to the world in my opinion isn’t a problem.

If you want to know how being queer has affected my faith, I’ve never doubted for a second that being lgbt+ is fine. To be honest I’ve been more afraid of secular society not accepting me than God. God and I have wrestled before, but almost never over that. I am how I am and if God didn’t want me to be this way he probably wouldn’t have flipped the gay switch in my brain.

#roman said a thing #religion mention

[tanadrin]

The Gish Gallop was a term coined I think on the 2000s internet for a rhetorical maneuver where to buttress an argument you provide a ton of low-quality evidence; that the evidence is bad means it should be easy to refute, but the very large volume means it will take much longer to explain why it's all wrong than it did to copy-paste a bunch of links, and to a certain kind of very naive onlooker, it looks like the galloper is winning--after all, the one interlocutor has presented a ton of evidence! The second interlocutor has to spend so much time bending over backwards to refute it! Surely the first guy is more knowledgeable and authoritative. You aren't going to look at all that evidence yourself, of course--who has the time?

But listening to Dan McClellan talk about the Gospel of John this morning, it occurs to me that I don't think this is disingenuous. Not entirely. I think this is just the style of argumentation a lot of Christians (of a particular religious flavor) are used to. And I'm not just talking about in non- or para-religious matters like evolution. This is how Christianity understands the Bible.

This week's Data over Dogma is about the theology of John, and why it is non-trinitarian (because the Trinity is a much later doctrine developed as a kind of political compromise, maintained only because it had state backing) and does not actually identify Jesus with God (the theological developments are more complicated here; but suffice it to say it was not at all a given that "authorized bearer of the divine name" and "actually God" were the same being in 1st century Hellenistic Judaism, and indeed the distinction between the two had developed in Jewish thought precisely to avoid the awkwardness of anthropomorphic figures proclaiming themselves God in some of the older sections of the Hebrew Bible).

The funny thing is, there are a ton of passages in John that get trotted out as proof texts that Jesus is God. There are very good reasons in the case of each one to doubt that that is actually the correct reading; but of course, if you don't know anything about Greek, all you have are modern translations produced under the assumption of the dogma of the Trinity--mostly for devotional readers of the Bible who would be outraged if the Trinity wasn't in the New Testament--and you have been raised in a cultural and/or educational milieu where it is simply a default assumption about the way the world works that the Trinity is a timeless concept that has been in the Bible from the beginning, it sure looks like one side is spinning up tendentious arguments based on silly semantics that have nothing to do with the religion you learned as a kid.

But this exegetical approach (really, eisegetical) is common to many topics in traditional Christian theology. There are a ton of passages from the Septuagint that the Gospels warp to be about Jesus, even though, in their original context, this doesn't make any sense; sometimes even they're based on obvious mistranslations, like having Jesus ride into Jerusalem on the back of two animals simultaneously because you don't understand appositives. And you can poke holes in any individual bit of this exegesis, but psychologically having a ton of low-quality evidence for a thing is a pretty effective bulwark against thinking critically about that evidence; for every individual argument you knock down, the person you are arguing against is probably thinking, "yeah, but what about all that other stuff," even if they can't actually name all that other stuff in the moment.

And it's not mendacious! This is the stuff of true belief; this is how you get breathless Christian commentators saying the Bible couldn't possibly be written by human hands, because it so perfectly predicted Jesus even in the Old Testament--and the evidence they point to is, to anyone not steeped in traditional Christian exegesis, and especially to Jews who have their own exegetical traditions, absolutely barmy. Like really pants-on-head crazy stuff. But of course even now it is still being processed, in many parts of the world, through a two thousand year old tradition trying to reconcile it all and to normalize it all, and--to bring it back to discussions of evolution on the internet in the 2000s--I can't help but think of all those people who talk about the experience of thinking evolution was so obviously nonsense, because all they were exposed to was the fundamentalist strawman of it. When they finally sat down and began to read about it on their own, from unbiased sources--often with the intent of criticizing it--they realized how distorted their understanding was, and how limited their supposed outside view.

(If there are general lessons to be wrung from this situation, I think it's simply "beware of echo chambers." Social consensus in a bubble can make bad arguments feel much stronger than they really are, especially if you are not exposed to the actual opposing view. Be on guard against mistaking "quantity of evidence" for "quality of argument," especially if you're not gonna evaluate that evidence yourself. Also all religious traditions are fundamentally eisegetical, because in order to keep holy writ relevant to the community its meaning has to be constantly renegotiated. So, uh. If you want high-quality exegesis, ask an academic, not a theologian.)

[traegorn]

The uselessness of Witchcraft Author "Blacklists"

Every once and a while I see a "Witchcraft Author Blacklist" either in the tags or getting passed around here on Tumblr, and never in my life have I thought it was a remotely useful thing.

Because every single time, they lack and semblance of nuance. Like yesterday I ran across one that literally equated Scott Cunningham with Stephen Flowers. Yes, Cunningham, a person who wrote some things that need to be read critically is, apparently, as bad as a literal fucking Nazi whose books help fund the AFA.

Like are there Cunningham books I wouldn't recommend? Absolutely. Should most of his works be read with a critical eye and take into account the state of the community and available information when he was writing them? Yes. But... like... there's a huge fucking difference between these two things.

Also, this list claimed because Cunningham wrote about Wicca his works were somehow homophobic. Have there been homophobic Wiccans? Of course - but Cunningham, an openly gay man, was not one of them.

Additionally, there are people who get included on these lists where I wouldn't recommend anyone read their books to learn witchcraft per se, but their works have important historical significance.

Like Gerald Gardner - should anyone learn from Gardner? Fuck no. His works are full of misinformation and outright bullshit. But it literally is where the modern witchcraft movement was birthed, so there is value in understanding where we came from.

Aleister Crowley falls into this category too - harder even. Crowley was gross as heck, but how can you understand what in the modern community is still descended from his works or propagating his gross ideas... if you're unfamiliar with his works?

Also, he's super dead, so it's not like he's benefiting from someone reading his stuff.

It's just so deeply frustrating that people make these lists to start with. Like, I have written or talked about how certain authors should be avoided -- but I always do my best to include context, reasons, and explanations why. I will specifically explain why I don't think they're valuable to read. Making a laundry list where you make unsourced or unexplained claims about a huge list of people doesn't help someone understand what might be wrong with them.

Also, my recommendations are usually about how a new witch shouldn't read their work, because it's about not having the experience to see what is and isn't bullshit in what they read yet. They don't have that baseline yet. That doesn't mean that some of these books might not be significant or worth reading at some point in their journey. Just not at the start of it.

It's just... a complete lack of nuance. Like I don't recommend Silver Ravenwolf because her books are, frankly, poorly researched and bad. I don't recommend Stephen Flowers because he's a fuckin' overt WHITE SUPREMACIST whose publications have been used to fund the AFA. These are not the same. When we pretend that they are, we are doing a massive disservice to all of us.

It... it honestly feels like Christian purity culture repackaged. If you can't handle nuance, I don't think you can really handle that much witchcraft to start with. The world isn't black and white -- there are overt evils out there, but most everything else is a shade of gray and pretending otherwise is poisonous.

#witchcraft #witchblr #beginner witch #baby witch #blacklists #wicca

[burr-ell]

"the tendency of this fandom to only engage with what THEY want these characters to be#as opposed to what their creators are trying to do and the stories they want to tell" slap this on a bumper sticker, you just summed all cr discourse (about PCs at least) in 2 sentences

It truly is maddening (and it's not by any means exclusive to the CR fandom). The reason why the discourse always goes the way it does is that at the end of the day, the loud fanwanky people only see what they would do, if they were self-inserted into the story, as a valid choice; and they are, more broadly, fundamentally disinterested in what others think or feel. There are several examples of this, and the variety of spaces within the fandom that produce these ideas is an indicator that this isn't endemic to one specific group of people.

-Keyleth is an important character whose feelings and choices are validated by the other PCs and cast even if they still disagree with them, in spite of how she and her preachiness get in the way of the Murderhobo Jubilee? It's not because the cast are all friends and they genuinely believe Keyleth is valid and are interested in how these discussions and choices can guide the story. It's because Marisha is the DM's girlfriend, and also here's my totally unbiased theory that my pet favorite players Sam and Travis secretly hate Marisha and Keyleth.

-Vax's presence is still felt and nodded to in the post-canon VM oneshots? It's not because he was an important character who mattered. It's because Liam wants to make everyone talk about his tragedy because he has Main Character Syndrome. Scanlan Wishes for Vax to appear at the wedding? It's not because he cares about Vex or because Sam and Liam wanted a sweet tribute to Vex and Vax's relationship and by extension Liam and Laura's friendship. It's because Liam thinks Vex's life should always revolve around Vax, and Sam wants to enable him and jerk himself off as the one who facilitated it.

-Beauyasha and Fjorester become canon? It's not because the players wanted it and it happened naturally. It's because there was a secret behind-the-scenes push to "force" those ships to become canon instead, and like, Dani Carr is some sort of shipping puppetmaster who made the players do it, and "they" (whomever "they" is) decided to sink Beaujester or Widojest because it was "obviously" going to become canon before the pandemic hiatus gave them time to "make the corporate-approved ships happen".

-Beau and Caleb try to reform the Empire and dismantle the Cerberus Assembly from within? It's not because it makes sense for their stories or that people who would take this position regarding a corrupt government might have a valid perspective that differs from your own. It's because the people at Critical Role Productions LLC are all spineless neoliberal cowards who won't commit to real activism. The best activism, after all, is violent, and violent revolutions have always resulted in stable aftermaths, and the real world has never demonstrated that this mindset is foolish.

-Relatedly: Caleb doesn't kill Trent personally? It's not because the most poetic justice would be to deny Trent the thing he wants most from Caleb. It's because "Limo Brain" is too obsessed with tragedy to have the stones to do "what needs to be done".

-Asmodeus, DnD Satan, turns out to also be CR Satan? It's not because it fits with the cosmology and the lore; it's because Matt Mercer is too attached to the "establishment", and the Prime Deities should have actually turned out to be the bad guys because of my personal baggage about Western religion and Christianity they're a little mean to my blorbo sometimes.

There's a pattern here: fans had expectations that they'd built up for themselves after projecting and building up fanon and deciding what players meant before they explained themselves fully, and when the players strayed from that, they were derided for all manner of reasons. I think we're seeing that same pattern play out in C3 as the story progresses in a way that fans dislike, and in fact we have seen fanwank spread whenever someone does anything that interferes with personally catering to a) the favored ship and/or b) the favored philosophy. (Orym, Ashton, FCG, Percy, Pelor...all valid when they affirm the Fandom Opinions and all disdained when they don't.)

Don't get me wrong, I think there's a place for comfort stories that deliver a personal catharsis. And I'm not going to dismissively say "well if you want it so bad make your own" because, as an artist, I am very familiar with the fact that creating is hard and draining and sometimes you just need to consume instead. But when you become so wrapped up in yourself and your feelings to the point where your perspective is the only valid one, someone else's feels like a betrayal when it isn't. It's always "They aren't doing what we wanted and here's why they're terrible people because of it" and never "Hmm, why is this what the cast wants? Let's examine that."

This isn't a new phenomenon, but I think it ultimately stems from not assuming that other people can differ from you in major ways in good faith. There are a lot of reasons for that (some more understandable than others), but I think you rob yourself of the potential to enjoy something new when all you do is demand what you already want. No matter what you're doing or where you are in life, you tend to become a better and wiser person when you open your mind to what other people have to say, no matter how mundane the subject matter. Sometimes the stories people have to tell are challenging—and the only healthy way to deal with that is to engage with them on their own terms.

#critical role #cr discourse #asks #long post #for the record i think VLD fandom became such a shitshow partially for this reason #but also. and admittedly i'm biased. VLD was basically a show for no one #this by the way is part of why a faction of fe3h fandom capes so hard for crimson flower (which is basically a glorified bonus route) #and absolutely abhors the idea of byleth being religious and enjoying her job as a teacher #and why some cr fans are so vehemently opposed to the prime deities being good and characters being connected to them #religious trauma that leads a character to reject religion and that being framed as a valid choice is okay to want to see #but it is also just as valid for a character to find religion to be a healing and positive experience #seriously 'gods bad' stories are not that difficult to come by. they're just not doing that in THIS story and you're mad about it #instead of doing the work of finding a story that WILL do that meaningfully

[creature-wizard]

"Paganism isn't a Burger King or a Chinese buffet, you can't just pick and choose what you want" is bad rhetoric, and here's why.

I recently got an anon message telling me that paganism isn't like a Burger King or a Chinese buffet; you can't just have things your way or pick and choose what you like, and that "everything was organized a certain way for a reason" and that you "change the system at your own risk."

I pointed out that this is an incredibly historically-uninformed take, because there's never been a time or place in history where paganism was pure and unchanging, and there were many reasons for things being the way things were, most of them just not that deep or mysterious. (For example, politics.)

Anon sent a follow-up message stating that they were talking about cultural appropriation, which... strange if true, given that I hadn't been posting anything about appropriation recently.

In fact, it seems that the post this person was responding to was a post about pop culture witchcraft, given that the OP of that post got an anon message with the words "Chinese buffet analogy" and "pop culture paganism" in the same sentence. (It seems this person doesn't understand the difference between witchcraft and paganism. Common beginner mistake, but also, oof.) Said post wasn't encouraging any kind of appropriative behavior, but go off I guess, anon.

In any case, this kind of restaurant rhetoric isn't even good for safeguarding against cultural appropriation. It doesn't actually explain why cultural appropriation is a problem, and functionally just tells people to stay with what they they've been taught and don't question it. If anything, it reminds me of conservative Christian rhetoric telling people that they can't be Christian and pro-LGBTQ+ because "you can't pick and choose which parts of the Bible to follow." (And I think we can all agree that we're better off when Christians decide to ignore this kind of sentiment.)

And speaking of conservative Christianity, people trying to get away from that kind of crap are generally not the kind of people who appreciate being stuck in shitty little boxes and being told they have to follow the rules Or Else. If you use this line on them, sooner or later they'll probably decide that this whole notion of cultural appropriation is a bunch of xenophobic, dogmatic crap, and they're not going to care anymore.

And if it does work on them? If they do internalize it? Congratulations, you've just taught them that policing people's practices for Not Being Pagan Enough is the way to go. This is how you get people harassing each other and putting each other down over total non-issues. It also means that they're less likely to think critically about their own beliefs and practices, and realize that maybe, just maybe, they're actually kinda shitty.

We should be able to explain to people that being mindful of cultural appropriation is about respecting other people's boundaries, access, and general welfare. We should be able to explain the actual harm that cultural appropriation does. Here are some examples:

The high demand for white sage among neopagans has contributed to overharvesting of white sage for commercial sale. This has resulted in ecological damage and made it more difficult for Natives to access the herb.

Ancient astronaut theorists twist and distort myths and traditions from numerous non-white cultures to make it seem as if they support a pseudohistorical narrative in which aliens supposedly built structures such as the Great Pyramids and Puma Punku. This narrative is linked with far right conspiracy theories in general. Those who speak out against the appropriation of their cultures' myths are regarded as unenlightened or agents of the conspiracy.

Commercializing aspects of marginalized culture to sell to the masses is essentially a form of exploitation; large companies benefit while they get nothing. Basically, if you wouldn't support intellectual property theft, you shouldn't support this kind of thing.

Said commercial products typically reinforce harmful stereotypes and misconceptions about said cultures.

In reality, there's no reason why people shouldn't pick and choose what they want provided they are minding boundaries. If somebody wants to worship Freya and Mercury and ignore other Norse and Roman gods, it literally hurts nobody.

There are many things that paganism is not. Paganism is not an unchanging monolith. Paganism is not decreed to us by an infallible authority. "Paganism" genuinely isn't even a very useful term to talk about Europe's rich tapestry of polytheistic beliefs with. But one thing that it is, is up to us, the living practitioners.

#cultural appropriation #paganism #paganblr #critical thinking #pagan

[thestrangestthing89]

There are thankfully only a handful of people who swear this is a conservative, Christian show but it's interesting to me considering how negatively the show depicts religion.

S1 - There aren't any direct references to religion but subtle hints. It's implied Hawkins is a typical middle class suburban neighborhood. It's 1983, Reagan was president, and there are hints of the towns Christianity through the bullies. When Will goes missing there are several comments that make it clear that the people in this town aren't surprised. The middle school bully makes a comment that he got "killed by some other queer" and says his father was talking about it. Parents in the town talk about Will being gay. We see Steve's friends - the high school bullies - also making homophobic comments about Jonathan and his brother. The bad guys are homophobic. They also all lose fights this season. The show takes an anti-bullying stance and you are supposed to feel for Will and his friends here. He's a child that's gone missing and the people in the town don't seem to care much or act surprised by it.

There are a few exceptions to this - Joyce mentions to Hopper that Lonnie called Will gay slurs because she is also worried he got killed because he's gay. Hopper takes this seriously during a time when absolutely no one would have criticized him for ignoring this situation. Plenty of people were ignoring gay people dying during this time. No one would have batted an eye at a cop acting like this didn't matter. But Hopper pays attention and puts together a search team. So there are a few people in town who do care - Scott Clarke being one of them. And obviously the rest of our main cast doesn't care what people say about Will because they help to look for him all season. The good guys aren't homophobic. The good guys care about Will. And this includes all of our main characters - the people the audience are supposed to root for go against homophobia and bullying.

(Edit: I forgot to include a conversation between Joyce and Lonnie. When Will's fake body is found Lonnie wants Joyce to see a pastor and Joyce says no. Lonnie is trying to convince her she is crazy. He's the bad guy, and the first thing he wants to do to "fix" the situation is to get Joyce to talk to a pastor. It's another negative association with religion. Joyce is right here. She isn't crazy. And Lonnie isn't being comforting when he says this. He's being controlling and dismissing her feelings. It's clear from what we see of Lonnie that he's an asshole. He abused Will and Jonathan (and likely Joyce as well), he tried to turn Jonathan against his mother when Will went missing, he exploited an opportunity for money. He's not a person we are supposed to be rooting for.)

S2 - This season has a more direct reference to Christianity and it's the Reagan signs on some of the front lawns in Hawkins. This isn't surprising considering again, it's a middle class suburb. Reagan was a popular president at the time and got elected by popular vote twice despite his mishandling of the AIDS crisis and a number of other issues. His name is synonymous with the Christian right. During his time in office, the pro-life movement started to take hold, and he cut back on welfare reform and disability rights to name a few of the problematic things he did. Basically, anyone who wasn't an able-bodied, straight, white, middle class Christian male was struggling and yet he won twice. These days, his name is often compared to Trumps - they openly hated the same groups of people.

This sets the stage in a subtle way for what's going on with the main characters. Because our characters are all outcasts - gay, black, disabled, poor, etc - they are struggling to fit in to mainstream society (which makes it so ironic this show is mainstream). Even Hopper who is your typical straight, white, leading man struggles to fit in - his daughter died and he is coping with depression and substance abuse issues. Things no one discussed openly at the time and were viewed as shameful.

So we have the Reagan sign on the Wheelers front lawn. This tells me that at least Ted is a Reagan supporter which makes sense given this is an upper middle class white family. I am skeptical of Karen (or anyone else in this family) being conservative but I will get to that in S3. Dustins house has a Mondale sign so they are democrats which makes sense - Dustin has a disability and his mother is a single parent. Reagans policies would have hurt them. We don't see the politics of the other boys families but I think it's a safe bet to assume they are democrats. Will's family is poor and his mother is also a single mother. Not to mention that there are hints both Joyce and Jonathan suspect he is gay and they love Will so much, there is no way they would have ever voted for someone like Reagan. And even though the Sinclair's are also an upper middle class family they are black and while no group of people votes in the exact same way, Reagans policies were incredibly racist. Lucas mentions struggles to fit into Hawkins because he's black in the book Lucas on the Line. His family wouldn't have fit into this town even though they are financially well off. It's a mostly white town and that would have absolutely resulted in them being on the receiving end of racism on a regular basis. So even though their family technically conforms, people would not have accepted them.

So we know that our main characters don't fit in and we know Reagan represents all things Christianity and conformity. One of the main themes of the show is "forced conformity is killing the kids" a line directly stated by Eddie in S3 so more on this in a bit.

Something else happens this season that isn't a direct reference to religion but an adjacent theme and it's the conversation Nancy and Jonathan have with Murray. They are trying to figure out how to take down Hawkins lab and get people to believe them. Nancy doesn't understand at first why presenting the evidence they have won't work. And Murray says - people don't want to see whats behind the curtain. It's comforting. They like the curtain. - So they water down the story so the town will understand it in a way that they won't resist. This, I believe, is essentially what the writers are doing with this show. They are watering down that this has been a show that is anti-conformity from the beginning and there are signs of it in S1. But they know if they come right out and say that a main storyline is a queer coming-of-age story, a lot of their mainstream audience isn't going to watch. So up until now anyway, they have been subtle about it. But the audience is starting to notice something is off, especially with Mike in S4 because things aren't adding up.

S3 - It is now the summer of '85 and while there aren't direct references to Christianity, we still get some hints of conservatism. The only reference to religion is a passing comment that Dustin's new girlfriend Suzie is a Mormon. There is also a passing comment made by Max in S2 that there were Mormons at the door when Billy questions her. It was Lucas and she is trying to hide him from her racist brother, so she lies and says she was talking to Mormons. These comments are pretty neutral even though Dustin mentions Suzie's father wouldn't approve of him because he isn't Mormon himself. At the time we are seeing this moment, it's hard to tell if Dustin is telling the truth (everyone thinks he's making up his girlfriend this season.) But we see more of this in S4.

And then there is the comment by Karen Wheeler about Margaret Thatcher. She's on the phone with someone and says "I don't know Cath, maybe if I was Margaret Thatcher that'd be an another story." (this is in episode 5 by the way). A lot of people take this comment to mean Karen is conservative but I feel like it's so vague. We have absolutely no idea what the context of this conversation is or even who she is talking to (presumably one of the mothers from the pool). It's unclear if she was saying something positive or negative. We don't know what she is talking about, all we hear is her say Thatcher's name. So I feel like it's a leap to assume it was a conservative statement she was making.

I have a hard time believing that Karen is conservative (or at least not ultra conservative like a lot of Reagan supporters) for a few reasons. One of which is the contempt she has for Ted. She is frequently rolling her eyes at him or annoyed in some way and we know in canon he is the guy who represents conformity. However, Karen doesn't. This season especially she is shown to not be happy with her life. She is supposed to be a conservative housewife, but she almost has an affair and makes a few interesting comments. One of which was during her conversation with Nancy about her job. Nancy is discussing her misogynistic bosses and Karen gives her helpful and supportive advice about not fitting in. It seems personal, and from what we know about her, this sticks out. Because she seems like she is a typical housewife. I always felt like there was more to her backstory, but she seems to relate personally to Nancy's story of being an outcast at her job.

There is also her relationship with Mike. In S1, we see her trying to connect with him emotionally and get him to talk about his feelings about Will going missing. Karen is clearly someone who her kids can talk to, even if they resist sometimes. And her kids don't exactly fit in or represent conformity. She has been shown to be worried about her their safety repeatedly, Mike in particular, and we never see her trying to force them to conform in any way. And this is a thing that someone in her position would have absolutely been teaching her kids - conservative, Christian values. But we don't see anything like this or any hint of this. So I don't buy the 'she's conservative' theory. I don't think we've seen enough evidence of that. And while the Wheelers are probably a family that goes to church on Sundays, I don't get the impression this is a major influence in their lives. There is no religious paraphernalia around the house and this would have been a very common thing for a family that was pro-Reagan to do. I feel like they are passively conservative. It's the popular, normal choice and Karen and Ted are the epitome of doing things because they think they are supposed to. But this hardly makes them die hard believers.

S4 - This is where religion becomes more direct. Eddie is reading a Newsweek article about the dangers of D&D. During this time Satanic Panic was spreading. People feared for the moral values of the US during a time of extreme conservatism. Eddie clearly thinks this article is a joke. He's mocking anyone who conforms and it's clear Dustin and Mike agree. They are outcasts and they know D&D isn't dangerous. Eddie makes them feel like being different is ok.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, we have Jason. He's your typical straight, white, christian male and fits in perfectly. He's the star of the basketball team and has the perfect cheerleader girlfriend (at least on the surface). He's the opposite of Eddie. And he is the villain in this story. THE GUY WHO CONFORMS PERFECTLY IS THE VILLAIN. He gets progressively more insane as the season progresses. He's charismatic and he quotes the Bible to rile the town up to hunt Eddie and Hellfire club down. They are all in a panic about the murders that are happening and the cops aren't doing a great job containing things (they also don't have all the information to be fair). But by the end of the season, Jason is completely unhinged and holds Lucas up at gunpoint. He's also part of the reason why Max ended up dying. It's Satanic Panic that drives this attitude forward. People are panicking over the loss of morals and blaming that for the reason why bad things are happening. Which I think will make for an interesting lead-in next season with regard to a more openly gay storyline.

On top of this display of religious fundamentalism, we see Suzie and her family. They are Mormons and we know her father is strict with regard to religion. However the family we see is chaotic. Suzie's sister Eden mocks Suzie for basically being a goody two shoes. Eden also has no hesitation about getting high and clearly is not abiding by Mormon values. Suzie doesn't always either. If there is a cause she believes in - like helping Dustin - she only has a little bit of guilt about going against her father and her religion. Her father is pretty much a joke. He's a fumbling idiot the kids need to outsmart in order to get the information they need. It's not exactly a positive representation of religion. Suzie shows that even though her religion is important to her, she is capable of thinking for herself. She hacks Dustins school computer and a government computer (although she doesn't know all the info about what she is doing here) with little hesitation. Her religious morals aren't exactly stopping her from doing something illegal or unethical. She's a hacker above all else.

At the end of the season we see Ted - the dude who represents all things common - reacting negatively to the news about what's going on in Hawkins. The guy who represents conformity is questioning the "propaganda" the news is coming out with to describe the situation in Hawkins. He is questioning the status quo. This is meant to show how even Ted is noticing something isn't adding up about the "normal" explanation of things. Something, at this point, that the audience should be questioning especially with regard to Mike. Because if even Ted can see something is going on here, then surely the audience can too.

The series has gotten progressively more direct about its anti-conformity theme which is why it makes no sense for them to suddenly forget this in S5. This show has always been about and for outcasts. The Wheeler family is a cautionary tale that Nancy said in season 1 was so depressing. She wants the opposite of this, which is why her and Steve and their 6 kids is never going to work (there are a lot of reasons why this is never going to work). And it's also why Mike and El aren't going to be endgame. Those relationships are there to represent conformity and none of the characters in those relationships are happy. They are the expected, normal relationships. If they wanted the audience to like these relationships they would have been written more positively.

So it's funny to me when people say the show is never going to go against the status quo because they have literally been doing this from the start. It's what the entire show is about. All of the characters are outcasts. All of them. So if people are claiming to like and support them, then they need to get behind the anti-conformity theme. And if they can't do that - this show is simply not for those people and it never was.

#byler #anti mileven #mike wheeler #gay mike wheeler #will byers #stranger things #jancy #anti stancy

[anamericangirl]

I saw some edgy girl on Tumblr who was ''crying'' because of the first communion.

She was talking about how the dresses reminded her of wedding dresses and how those girls are ''brainwashed'' from a young age to be wives.

I wanted to write to her about how she's projecting so hard. No one in the western countries is telling women to stay in the kitchen and have babies in truckloads.

What about other religions TODAY which actually promote patriarchy, arranged marriages, and child brides?

Yeah every time people claim christians or conservatives just think women should be staying in the kitchen and having babies are referencing such an outdated take that no one is even saying. Which just shows how much of an echo chamber they live in.

But yeah the only religion it's ok to criticize is Christianity even though there's other religions out there actually doing the things they pretend to care about.

#anon #answered

[ladymacbeths]

macbeth related posts/articles/essays masterlist

hi! here's a list of almost every single anaysis Thing I've come across in like two months of being insane about the scottish play. Most are about lady macbeth/the gender theme btw.

‘He has no children’: The centring of grief in The Show Must Go Online’s Macbeth - Gemma Allred: on the misogyny that frequently surrounds conversations around Lady Macbeth

this post by @amillionmillionvoices: Same topic as the previous one, but goes more in depth, explains ladymac’s motivations as mostly coming from love not self-serving ambition.

this post by @dukeofbookingham: also explains the prior point very prettily— that ladymac is (mostly) motivated by love, but also makes the case that many of it is guilt born from not fulfilling societal expectations

On the character of Lady Macbeth - Dr. Emil Pfundheler: paper that explains the same point made in the previous post, using the text to explain. Written in 1873 so explains gender as a dichotomy, but once you take that out, its points are very good.

Characteristics of women: moral, political, and historical - Anna Jameson: aka Why Lady Macbeth is not inherently evil— same topic and the other two, but focuses a bit on the fact that she is A Woman. Not my favorite, but worth reading I suppose. Also includes analyses of many female Shakespeare characters. It does include some very bad history in the beginning— Gruoch did not orchestrate Duncan’s murder. That’s something Hector Boece made up.

Lady Macbeth: “Infirm of purpose” (from The Woman’s Part: Feminist Criticism of Shakespeare) - Joan Larsen Klein: on how she both fits and doesn’t fit the idea of a reinassance wife— doesn’t fit because she isn’t aligned to god (this read more like a Christian analysis than a feminist one if I’m being honest), but fits them because she behaves like one, only subverts them because she’s like, the evil murder girl version of the Wife. The essay right after this one is also very good.

The Hysteria of Lady Macbeth: required reading if you wanna play her Btw not kidding. Analyzes her character thru the lens of freudian psychology. Screws up the text of the play a bit but provides an actual in-depth explanation of how sonnambulism works. Note that "hysteria" is not a current psychological diagnosis, but a symptom of other conditions. Still extremely interesting.

The Macbeths - G. K. Chesterton: analysis of their relationship, makes some interesting point on the differences of the nature of their ambition and desire to kill the king

Shakespeare’s tragic frontier; the world of his final tragedies - Willard Farnham: this one is long but oh boy does it go deep. Talks about the lore of the witches, explains historical context to find out how the real events were so screwed up, makes an interesting point about Macbeth’s conscience against Lady Macbeth’s, and lastly talks about the tragic world of Macbeth compared to other tragedies.

Women’s fantasy of manhood: a Shakespearean theme - D. W. Harding: exactly what it says on the tin, using ladymac and her skewed (and I’d call romanticized) idea of what a man is that she pushes on Macbeth. So yeah, talks about the gender theme. Also talks about Goneril from Lear, Cleopatra, and Volumnia from Coriolanus and how they fit the theme— although ladymac is the only one who goes downhill from it.

Unnatural women in William Shakespeare’s Macbeth - Elizabeth Klett: I’ll be honest I didn’t love this one a lot. Basically talks about how every woman in Macbeth defies gender roles. Doesn’t go too deep however. But the book has a ton of essays analyzing female characters in classic lit.

#macbeth #shakespeare #william shakespeare #lady macbeth #classic literature #english literature #classic lit #billy shakes #king lear #coriolanus #there u go. the result of 2 months on insanity #i hope this helps someone or that u have fun at least. i did #also if anyone wants to add anything about any of These feel free bc i dont know much about. most of the things discussed

[papirouge]

I gave up on being pro life publicly and online. The genocide in the Congo and in Gaza have proved it to me that many western women who run those pro life accounts don’t care for children. Many babies have been lost due to hospital bombings. More children are displaced with no families.

I’ve tried reaching out when they talk about saving children in generic posts because very real babies are losing their lives by IDF terrorism. And I get blocked or I get told “that’s different/ they’re Muslim/they should have left already/I don’t care” over and over and over again. The countless videos are already out that have children begging and crying for their families they lost or the homes that can’t be saved. Some of the worst messages I read criticized and blame the Palestinian men too that they should be protecting the kids, so when they die, it’s actually Palestinians fault. Not the IDF. Meanwhile those “young men” are just teenagers because their parents are dead. The Congolese topic is worst. Many are begging people to stop buying the iPhone 15 to raise awareness over the issues there but I got told by one girl who likes to call herself an anti woke submissive wife that she couldn’t care less about the Congo, she’s going to do whatever her husband wants, if that means ignoring genocide then that’s what she will do too. It’s her god given to have freedom over dead bodies l…

I’m fed up. I’m sick of the hypocrisy. I’m sick of seeing stupid homestead content of how they’re at peace taking care of a home as they purposefully condone genocide. If some hacker group exposed all these “submissive Godly trad wife” accounts as being agents for Israel to distract the west from IDF war crimes, I wouldn’t be surprised the least. Their apathy is demonic

@not-your-average-prolifer is the only pro life blog who passed the vibe check as far as I know. She reblogged posts about the emergency of pregnant women in Palestine and also post about mental health of middle east women. I think she is left leaning (correct me if I'm wrong!) so I'm not surprised to see her with more empathy about whatever's happening to women abroad, unlike Conservatives who are extremely stupid & uneducated when it comes to foreign affairs, if not straight up xenophobic.

I hope for every single Christian I know to never open their mouth about uwu Christianism is from Middle east uwu ever again the next time someone calls Christianism white man's religion or I'll go berserk on them. They better shut up forever. They had no problem to keep their mouth shut witnessing the martyrdom of our brothers - they better keep it that way permanently and stop summoning their struggle once it's convenient to them. YES, they proved they definitely consider Christianism a white man thing, considering our little care they have for our (non white) Christian brothers overseas. They better keep them out of their mouth permanently.

"They're Muslim" it's been well documented that there are Christians in Palestine. But even if they weren't, Christ wants everyone to be saved and accept him as their lord and savior - refusing to extend some basic empathy to people being bombed and killed in their sin is not the way to go. Never forget that Jesus didn't heal or saved only Jews, but also pagans, prostitutes, etc. It's insane how so unemphatic "Christians" have become.

Christian Palestinians are actually some of the oldest Christians - like, where do they those idiots think Jerusalem was?? where did the Pentecost happen? IN MIAMI?? KANSAS?? "They should have left" WHERE?? aren't the ppl pulling out this argument the same crybabies whining about woke culture destroying western civilization? Why didn't they leave the western zone already??? Also aren't they the same against immigration and how men fleeing their country are lazy cowards? so why are they mad at Palestinians sticking to their land?? Damn, Western politicians/diplomacy have the opportunity to do the funniest thing possible and mass import Palestinians in western countries to abide Zionists requirements in Israel 💀

And LOL oh so now Palestinian men are supposed to protect children? what are they supposed to do when the IDF is bombing their house? Take weapons to defend/get back their land and shit? Oh my bad, that makes them terrorists (and let's be clear : what happened on October 7th is unjustifiable but let's not act like the Hamas wasn't called terrorist much earlier than that). It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't. If they do nothing, they're cowards, and if they do, they are terrorists - because in this case, resistance is defiance. Ultimately they just want to deflect from their own lack on empathy and find a rational explanation to that.

Conservative scrotes are the LAST people who should lecture anyone about defending the children when there are acting bullying kids young enough to be their grandchildren calling them wokes, leftists, or whatever. I won't even start about gun violence and how deflective they are about protecting the children only to protect their precious right to carry. Ghouls. They only care abt unborn babies because they are unable to call them out on their bs yet. Once they do, they'll cuss them, call them woke, and all sort of -ists.

On TikTok there was a Christian girl saying how Christians are "too emotional" and how we should keep supporting "God chosen people" (Israel). I already made a post calling out how this "god chosen people " narrative didn't stand now that we were in the NEW COVENANT. But let's follow her train of thought: isn't humankind made from God image? Where do emotions come from? Didn't God himself have emotion? Why? What's the right or wrong place to have emotion? She and all the clown who agreed with her would never be able to reply those questions. We've all seen the videos. I did what I could to avoid them but they're quite unavoidable at this point. What's the correct emotion after seeing 2 kids younger than 10 carrying a third one crying while one of his foot was hanging with only one tendon?? This girl, along with every single Christian unmoved by this disaster has to shut up. Their heart is a stone and they should stop trying to lecture people who still have a heart made of flesh. We're not the same. Christ is PEACE. Not war or violence.

And girl, you really shouldn't even engage with women labelling themselves "anti woke submissive wife" 💀 why would you expect them to care about anything but their idol (husband)? Stay focus on what really matters. Peace and God. We're in the end times and God is slowly but surely unfolding the truth. The masks are slipping. Take note of all the so called who remained silent witnessing satan action, take proper action, and go on.

#answered #Christian