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#rwbyjnorq
kitkatopinions · 11 months
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Do you think Glynda would have been the only one to side with Ozpin, or at least not hold much of a grudge against him, treating him empathy, after his big secret reveal in V6? She's already displayed a great deal of uncond trust towards him when she talked with Ironwood about him having doubts about Ozpin
Honestly, if the only thing that changed was Glynda's inclusion and the same writers were still doing the same things... I don't think Glynda would've sided with Ozpin at all, because the writers love to write "and then RWBYJNOR think blah blah blah," or "and then RWBYJNORQ want XYZ." They struggle to do plotlines where people can disagree without being framed as One Hundred Percent Bad In The Wrong Needs To Change Might Be Evil. I feel like if they had Glynda be a more prominent role and involved in the story up to V6, they would've had her also be so furious and disappointed in and angry at Ozpin just like Qrow, even if it didn't make any sense.
Logically though, what I think would happen if the writers cared about consistency and making their characters have an original thought, I think that Glynda would be the most on board with Ozpin and have the least problems with him out of anyone.
I think Qrow should've sided with Ozpin, but been personally very hurt by Ozpin's lack of trust in him, creating conflict for them to work through later. I think Yang should've been against Ozpin, resolving that he can't be trusted because he lied to them and (however temporarily) icing him out and not looking to him as a leader. I think Weiss should've been mostly on Yang's side, albeit with a bit more sympathy towards Oz, sort of in the camp of "I get where he's coming from but clearly we can't trust him to be honest or to always have our best interests at heart." I think Blake should've actually taken the stance of "you guys don't know what it's like, maybe he should've told the truth, but it's easier to say 'you should trust us' than it is to actually trust people after you've been hurt so many times, I've been there and I get it" and she should've been way more sympathetic towards Ozpin because of her backstory. I think once Jaune heard about it later, he should've had problems too and been willing to work with Ozpin, but hesitant with him and frequently doubting the legitimacy of his claims and tending to rely on himself and Ruby and not really think of Ozpin as any sort of reliable guide to be consulted in plans. Ren should take kind of the same stance as Jaune, albeit with a more logical thought process of "we should only do what he says if we think he's right, everything else doesn't matter as much." And I actually think Nora should've been fully on board with Ozpin, easily assuming that he only lied to them and/or didn't trust them because he'd been hurt in the past, and that she doesn't really care and still likes him. And I think that Ironwood should've - when he eventually heard - been somewhat hurt as well, but understand the logic of it, but also just resolve to work all the harder himself, knowing that Ozpin is not always a safety net and knowing that Ozpin doesn't always share everything important. And Glynda would fully on Ozpin's side except unlike Qrow (who I feel has a very emotional and personal connection to Ozpin and would fall back on believing in Ozpin because he loves him more than because it logically makes sense) and Nora (who I honestly think is just a very loyal follower with strong intuition and a good judge of character but doesn't really have much logic behind 100% trusting Oz,) Glynda would instead completely get where Oz is coming from, completely understand why he did the things he did, completely agree with them, and just keep trusting him completely. As for Ruby (who is the most important person here,) I think that she should've been kind of in-between and not sure what to think, feeling confused on how she's supposed to react, trying to make everyone happy at once, and be understanding but also a good strong leader herself, and tries to rely more on herself instead of others in the wake of what happened.
Basically, if I was the RWBY writer, I think Glynda would side with Ozpin because that's what I think makes the most sense for her character. Everyone should be having different reactions because what Ozpin did is nuanced, not just pure evil, and I think that with what Glynda was like in V1-3, the natural thing and what would make the most sense would be her understanding and supporting Ozpin. However, I think if the writers included her, she wouldn't side with Ozpin at all, because they didn't want it to be a nuanced conversation and a chance to show the range of their characters where some people agreed with Ozpin, some people didn't, and some people were kind of in-between. They just wanted to say 'Ozpin is bad and dumb and we should all be against him,' and so they couldn't have Glynda do anything but agree with Team RWBY... Unless they made her into one of those characters that temporarily disagrees with Team RWBY so they can all be like 😮🫢😞😠 and then they either take it back later of become an antagonist.
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unofficialadamtaurus · 11 months
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This thought isn't entirely formed, and I can't make sense of it, but it's really weird how the writers use suffering as a cosmetic signifier for villain status instead of a symptom that reveals the true evil sickness... that is capitalism and hoarded power.
Adam has a branded eye revealed before his death, it shows the disregard for faunus life and how a global conglomerate built capital and shaped the landscapes of society through faunus exploitation and abuse, but adam's suffering as a faunus is just a reason for his madness. Ozma is cursed by god to live as a parasite, watched his children get murdered, and was hunted for centuries by his abuser in a never ending cycle of suffering, but that is all just background stuff for why he lies and trusts no one. Even Cinder was raised in an orphanage where living conditions are abysmal thus showing the lack of social protection and welfare for children, she got human trafficked and wore an electrical collar thus showing how there is canonically a market for slavery, and the huntsman that wanted to help her had no legal channels of freeing her, but that is all just set dressing for why cinder craves power.
I am so confused, because these characters are supposedly hate sinks, especially Adam in particular. Miles has gone on record going on about how he hates adam and he is disgusted while writing adam. And like, my dear old man oz aint getting peace and they said cinder will never change. So, why write them like this? Why give the bloodthirsty monster a wound that shows how he survived a more despicable monster? Why show the lying man behind the curtain's heart of gold that remains beating through centuries of agony? Why reveal that the evil pawn with no purpose fights for the control she never had in life? Bruh, if the writers wanted us to root for the heroes and hate the villains, then just have villains that enables and thrives from systems of abuse and exploitation. Why is rwbyjnorq+ always out here fighting victims of the systems? Is Nicholas Schnee too expensive to model and animate? Is the punk in hope-punk suppose to mean being a cop and protect the systems against villains that are rude about being traumatized? Miles please sit, this is an intervention.
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bestworstcase · 2 years
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What are your thoughts on Jacques as a character? Do you have any?
“you think running off like your sister is going to make the schnee name stronger? it won’t. siding with her only divides us.”
rwby does a neat thing in v4 of utilizing slimeball-in-chief jacques to do the heavy lifting of foreshadowing ironwood’s tailspin into fascist tyranny—which is, of course, a bit of emotional sleight-of-hand to misdirect unwary viewers, because ironwood has hitherto been framed as sometimes misguided but having his heart in the right place, whereas jacques is a smug, child-abusing bastard of a capitalist and we don’t want to agree with him when he calls ironwood’s power-grabbing self-aggrandizement what it is. this is a role jacques reprises to great effect in v7, wherein his campaign for the council seat is a cynical performance of giving a damn about mantle but also makes him one of the most effective critics of ironwood’s increasingly dictatorial regime; he is, after all, the inciting force behind the council’s attempt to take ironwood to task for his unilateral and secretive actions of late, even going so far as to literally give robyn a seat at the table.
not to argue that jacques gives a flying fuck about anything but maximizing the SDC’s profits and flexing on someone he perceived as an obstacle to that goal—because he doesn’t—but, his role in the narrative is to be sort of the canary in the coal mine for ironwood’s hero-to-villain arc.
and that makes the remark quoted above very interesting to me, because: that is the exact rhetoric that undergirds the rwbyjnorq approach to internal conflicts. how many times have we heard variations on “salem seeks only to divide us” or “we can’t let salem divide us” or the kids fretting out loud that arguing and disagreeing only plays into her hands?—and here is that same rhetoric coming from the mouth of one of the most unpleasant characters in the entire show, whose foremost narrative role beyond facilitating weiss’s character development is telegraphing that ironwood is bad news.
it’s such a breathtakingly clear illustration of how easily the specter of “division” can be used as a tool of manipulation and control, how readily it goes hand-in-hand with a cynical emphasis on the appearance of unified strength above everything else, and how division in and of itself is a morally neutral quality. jacques is, of course, not wrong that weiss stirring the pot by leaving to be a huntress and shirking her nominal responsibilities as the future CEO of the schnee dust company could rattle investors and raise some serious questions about the long-term stability of the SDC; but ethically and emotionally it is also something that weiss must do, because the SDC as it is now is not worth preserving and living under her father’s thumb will destroy her.
so she leaves—divides the family, if you will—and finds her own way, and later returns with the inner strength and emotional support she needs to reconnect with the parts of her family and the schnee legacy that she values without sacrificing herself in the process.
which all feels very, um, pointed wrt the current ozma/salem unity/division power struggle over the fate of humanity and the obvious parallels that can be drawn between jacques’ abuse of his family and the god of light’s abuse of his creations.
anyway
i also appreciate jacques as a character who is just, profoundly and satisfyingly awful. he’s very like adam in that regard; whatever redeeming qualities he once had, he left behind long ago in pursuit of his self-centered goals and what’s left is a person who has decided with total confidence to become the worst version of himself, and there’s always something enjoyable about watching that sort of character cause problems for everyone else.
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nexyra · 3 years
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James Ironwood, for character ask? 👀
Aaaa thank you so much for the ask ♡ More rambling incoming !! Sorry for the wait btw, I've been both pretty busy and tired ;;
If you hate James Ironwood and don't wanna hear one good thing about him tap out now please ღ
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My fav ship(s) for the character
I am not a super big shipper when it comes to James, but there are still some I like more than others soo here goes :
I think Ironwitch is a pretty good one. It's not necessarily a ship I'd search content for but I think these two would work well together ! Glynda is stern and honest and a no-nonsense kind of woman. She has the strenght to stand up to James when he slips or gets too stubborn when faced with the high stakes. At the same time, we've been shown that she cares for him and she knows he's only trying to do what's best for people. She has faith in him but also the ability to stand at his side as an equal. She seems to be the more steadfast of Ozpin's circle : loyal, you know you can trust her, and she will not crumble. This is the kind of personnality that I think James both admire and feel safe with. And the other way around, I think James is a good match for Glynda too. On a day to day basis, he's serious enough to not annoy here, but he's also a softie in some aspects and that's a nice combination to smooth out Glynda's edges.
Ironqrow is a completely different dynamic. The "we're annoying each other" dynamic is not one I'm particularly interested in usually xD But these two certainly had strong & interesting moments so it's a pretty valid ship !! Despite how they might butt heads because of the difference in their upbringing they (prior to V8) clearly trusted each other with their life. Even if Qrow jokes about shooting himself if he had to be one of James' man, when everything goes to shit there is no doubt in his mind that James wasn't responsible. Similarly, while James talks of shooting Qrow for his misbehaviour, when push comes to shove and we meet a tired Ironwood, run ragged by the pressure he's under... the only thing he does is hug him and reiterates how glad he is to see him. So again, they clearly have a lot of faith and trust in the other, and that's solid ground for a relationship.
My least favorite ship(s) for the character
Same spiel as always, shipping kids and adults is a big no from me; so any ships between Ironwood and RWBYJNOR can qualify here. That said, among the less uncomfortable ones, here are those I don't really like
This one is again because I love their relationship but platonically only, I'm talking of Winter Soldier. The reading I like best is not that Ironwood is Winter's Jacques 2.0, nor that he groomed her; but that he was an important father figure in her life. Protective and caring, who tried to help her escape with what he knew. I don't see James recruiting Winter as a way to gain a strong ally. But rather that Winter wanted to detach herself from her family name, and make something worthwhile of herself all on her own. And that the military is what Ironwood knows and understand, so naturally it's a career he'd see as a good path. Just like Winter then proposed it to Weiss. I like to think they care about each other a LOT and they're their own tight family in between the lines, even if professionalism might throw a wrench into it. For short I love them together but not romantically please =)
I don't know if there's a ship name for this, but Salem x James Ironwood would be a big nope from me too... In general, let's just assume I ship Salem with nobody because abuse.
My fav & least fav platonic relationship(s) for the character
Fav platonic relationship would be (have been because we dont talk about V8?) with Winter. Fooor the reasons I've explained above I suppose x) I (again) love the trust they had in one another and the quiet support.
There was also his relationship with Oscar that I really liked during V7, although it has been soured a bit by the (valid) reading from some people that Ironwood sought out Ozpin a lot through Oscar, and given his identity issues it is not ground for a greatly healthy relationship. Their interactions were still very intersting though ♡ I consider Oscar to be the kid who went at trying to appease James' fear or make him reconsider his decisions the best way. There was true understanding and hope for a working relationship here. I do feel that Oscar put in more work than James however (emotionally) and I wish there had been pay-back instead of a gunshot.
For my least fav relationship ? Probably Robyn or Watts ? Robyn was always very antagonistic toward Ironwood since their priorities are so different. And I overall just don't really like her after V7 so there are very few relationships with her I'm interested in (the exception is her ship with Fiona I think it's cute). Meanwhile, Watts is just a petty asshole hell bent on ruining Ironwood because he didn't pick his project. I'm not very interested in hate relationships, and since theirs wasn't deeply explored anyway, it's even more the case here. Their fight was great though, one of my favorite RWBY fights !
My favorite thing about the character
Well this was completely proven wrong by V8 buuut as of V7 I liked that he was a deconstruction of the military general (dictator) trope. Sooo you can guess how i feel about V8 X) In general among RWBY, several of my fav are fav BECAUSE they look like one trope but also have key differences that from the get go make the character stray away from said trope. For example I'm not a fan of the princess tsundere archetype at all, but I loooved Weiss in V1 BECAUSE she was extra-willing to listen and change her mind, and you could very easily tell that it was her upbringing speaking more than herself in most occasions.
Similarly, I wasn't a big fan of Ironwood before V7. I didn't hate him you know and he wasn't lower than most characters in my Tier list but I also didn't particularly care. But you know what ? I've aaaalways had a really soft spot for the "angsty angry traumatized teen". And RWBY made the mistake of extending that soft spot to "tired adults trying their best" (only to repeatedly beat them up/make them villains after making me care about them but what can you do uh)
Soo in general, I loved that Ironwood was trying so hard. I loved that he was tired and in over his head but learning and listening and trying to do good and be better despite his fears. I liked that he told his entourage about Salem and was loyal. I liked that he cared about helping the people above his own image and the way people perceived him. I liked that you could tell this was a terrible situation all around, and his decisions WERE questionnable but we could SEE that he meant WELL and was genuinely trying so hard despite how scared and tired he was.
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My biggest criticism for the character
Well this won't be a surprise but in general I just wished he had stayed a morally grey character we were allowed to feel for instead of a cartoon black villain. I didn't need James to be THE Hero or anything like this despite some accusations levelled at those who like him. Him becoming one of RWBY's antagonist is honestly fine by me ! It is interesting. But I'd have preferred they kept him ambiguous and trying in his own way. (And smart because V8 Ironwood was dumb af)
I can be a tad overprotective of his character since he's just... so despised, so I think that I have inadvertently distanced myself from any of his flaws... somehow like "people are already yelling all of them so I don't need to add to this shit show" you know ? skjfkd But I KNOW he has them and it would still have been good to develop his flaws, just... not like that
But yea I'd have liked it if V8 Ironwood DID diverge from RWBYJNORQ and became an antagonist but not an iredeemable villain. LIKE,, we redeemed Hazel and Emerald and IRONWOOD is where the writers draw the line by saying "nope this one is rotten" ?? What ?
When was their writing at the peak according to me (ex : best season)
V7 definitely ! Ironwood carried V7 so hard haha. His character was fleshed out and given nuance and made to struggle and evolve and I loved him in that volume.
A song I think fits them & why
Hunger • Monsters & Men Human • Rag'n'Bone Man Way down we go • Kaleo Beekeeper • Keaton Henson Thistle and weeds • Mumford and Sons Castle of Glass • Linkin Park It's all so incredibly loud • Glass Animals
A headcanon to make up about them
His metal parts impact his metabolism so Ironwood is terrible at holding his alcohool and very little manages to knock him out. He's a workaholic. His low tolerence for alcohool is a great tool whn friends need to put him to sleep.
His joints crack and hurt in the cold, his metal parts as well and they are an hassle in the sand. James like to keep his room temperature warmer than the average atlasian because of this, otherwise he has to spend 30 min every morning simply unwiding muscles to move around efficiently.
He's not a good singer but has a nice low voice for telling stories. If he had kids, he'd probably avoid lullabies but compensate with bedtimes stories.
What I would change about them if I was making a re-write
As always, I'm kind of reflecting along the way as I write this, and one thing I'm thinking right now is... Doesn't it take away from the atlas arc message ITSELF to just pile up so many "standard bad guy" stuff on Ironwood ? Like, I wanna ask... why do we hate him ? Is he an antagonist because he lets fear get the best of him ? Because he's a classist who doesn't care about Mantle like some fans argue ? Because he's too stubborn and wants to be THE hero ? Because he doesn't listen to others ? Because he abandonned Mantle ? Because he kills peopke left and right ? Because he wanted to bomb a city ? I think you might see where I'm going with this : his status as villain is kind of messy. V8 just kept piling-up flaws and villainous actions onto Ironwood with no concern for whether this was a lenght he would go to (using the certainty that he would go to any lenghts to enact his plans), ,or whether these were one of the initial flaws/failings that led to his "fall" as an antagonist. What lesson is Ironwood supposed to learn ? Personally the very first time I yelled at my screen "No ! Why would the writers choose that ?" is when Ironwood shot Oscar. When answering criticism against medias, many people tend to look at it only through the lense of "well it makes sense in universe" or as if there were no other ways for the story to devolve. But at the end of the way, everything in a story is a choice from the writer even if it is influenced by the characters' personnalities. If I took the scene where Ironwood shoots Oscar, someone might tell me "he's crippled by his PTSD, he COULD do this." Maybe, that's a reading I can somewhat understand at least. But the writers have the power to NOT put his character in such a position. When I saw the wreck that was V7 finale, I ranted to my bestfriend about it and at no point did i say "why did Ironwood do that", I said "why did the writers make him shoot Oscar, the only point narratively would be to make irredeemable" Aaaand that's what they went for and I obviously didn't care for it. So if I had to rewrite it; I would have kept Ironwood's "mistakes" more focused. If he's wrong because he wants to abandon Mantle, because he's (understandably) scared and doesn't want to take risks; then stay focused on that. It's what makes RWBY leave, and out of all his V8 actions that's really the only thing RWBY needed to tell the whole world he wasn't an ally anymore apparently. - Don't make him shoot Oscar point blank, instead Oscar can simply fall because he flinches away from Ironwood's outburst; and a distraught/guilty Ironwood can decide that he doesn't have the time or capacity to help because of the tense situation. (Killing and not saving someone don't hold the same moral weight at all). - Don't make him kill people left and right or bomb cities, maintain the flaw of Ironwood struggling with his PTSD and his fear and not being able to take risks. - Don't paint him as a black villain, and eventually write V8 in such a way that RWBYJNORQ show taking risks might lead to a bigger victory, which was the volume's theme anyway. For example, following Oscar's destruction of the whale, a growth can occur that would bring back together the two anti-Salem factions : Oscar's risk put Atlas out of harm's way, which leads to Ironwood seeing that maybe there WAS a way to save Mantle as well as Atlas despite Salem's presence and he might have jumped the gun too quickly because of his fears. I'm not sure, I haven't thought about this extensively honestly but I hope you see what I mean. I think it would have been more focused & more in-character to focus Ironwood's failings on his fear; and the fact that he cares for the people and the greater good sometimes at the cost of the individuals. The idea that by sacrificing individuals too much you forget the people you're fighting for in the first place, could have been interesting to dig deeper into. Keep to the idea that Ironwood is somewhat disensitized to the individuals suffering for the sake of the greater good, instead of making him just
callous & uncaring.
My guess for their MBTI/Enneagram
I think pre-V8 Ironwood was an unconventionnal ENFJ. Aka, the type of character no one would type ENFJ because they go by stereotypes and Fe stereotypes are just enneagram 2 everywhere (aka nice, kind, helpful) whereas Ironwood has an enneagram tritype very common among xxTJs so that's what he looks/behaves like, but the way he thinks (what's best for the people, ethical values derived from an Atlasian upbringing) align more with Fe cognitively I think I'm going with ENFJ 6w5 1w2 3w4
Starting from V8 though, Ironwood veered clearly into ENTJ territory (types aren't supposed to change but I wouldn't say RWBY is the most consistent media when it comes to characters' personnalities)
One aspect that I think would be nice to delve deeper into ?
I understand why they didn't care to, but it'd have been interesting to get a few backstory hints for Ironwood. How did he lose half his body ? How did Oz recruit him ? Or some pieces about his upbringing ?
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rwdestuffs · 3 years
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Volume 8 is a poor man’s Infinity War.
Think about it. The main teams in both situations (RWBYJNORQ and the Avengers/GotG) are in separate squads trying to do their own thing.
Here’s our main issues:
In Infinity War, the main teams are split up because they can’t get to one another. They didn’t have a choice in splitting up, and thus, there wasn’t an opportunity in the first place to have interactions between characters like Tony and Steve. While yes, Thor goes off on his own on his own will, it is out of necessity.
And on top of which, each squad is doing something proactive.
Team Cap is trying to get the stone out of Vision so that they can get rid of it and stop Thanos. Team Iron Man is confronting Thanos directly. Team Guardians is also trying to attack Thanos and get back Gamora before the Soul Stone location is revealed. Thor, Rocket, and Groot are trying to get a weapon that can kill Thanos. They are all effectively doing something.
And Thanos’ squad are all split up trying to retrieve the stones. And they are also proactive in trying to do so.
And in the end, it is through Thanos’ direct actions that he is able to succeed.
Now, let’s compare this to Volume 8.
In Volume 8, the only one separated from the group that wasn’t by choice was Qrow, and later Oscar. Oscar gets to come back in the last quarter of the volume, so it’s very not like Thor’s reappearance in Infinity War.
Both squads are separated by choice. They actively chose to split up. This means that character interactions that were sorely needed can’t happen. There’s no Blake interacting with Yang, there’s no Nora and Ren interactions. And the few interactions that each team does have is hollow at best because it kinda comes out of nowhere. Take Ren’s resentment at the situation that they’re in for example. It’s brought up, and then dropped. There was hardly any buildup to it, and it doesn’t even go anywhere. Or take Nora’s sudden “I need some time” thing near the end. She was the one who initiated the kiss, if anything, it should be Ren who says that he needs the time to process his feelings. Especially since his semblance is literally suppressing his emotions! It would make more sense if he needed the time to process given all that he’s been through, and what his literal soul-based superpower does. Ren needs the time to process his feelings. Not Nora.
Or heck! Take Blake’s encouragement of Ruby as another. They deliberately nerfed her character to justify her belief in Ruby’s ability as a leader and a fighter. But the for a majority of the time, RWBN is in a mansion… Not even talking about what to do or about their own relationships, they’re drinking tea. At this point in time, Team Cap has gotten a plan set in place on how to get the stone out of Vision’s head and what they need to do to make sure that it works. Team Iron Man is already en-route to take the fight to Thanos, the Guardians are off to Knowhere to keep the reality stone out of Thanos’ clutches.
This is why people kinda touted JORY’s part as being better. By virtue of actually doing something, they kinda got the better arc by default. Sure, the interactions were really bland, and the discussions of what they have going on with members of the other squad are bare-bones, the fact that they actually do something is a virtue in of itself.
Salem, on the other hand, has her hands on another of the relics, but can’t access it. Emerald and Hazel are having second thoughts about the side that they are on, and Cinder is… Just being herself.
Now, don’t get me wrong. I do like the Emerald defecting thing. I really do. But I kinda wish we spent more time on it, and that we got to see what she did to be trusted with her weapons when they got to the mansion.
Qrow, at this point, is trying to come to terms with his involvement in Clover’s death, and like… It was Clover’s own fault. He followed a clearly unlawful order, didn’t take a prison transport, and prioritized the “suddenly declared traitor” Qrow over the literal agent of Salem who was right there, and gave the three character a hard time, and only two of them are now conscious.
So, Robyn’s whole thing about him being the better person kinda feels like it comes out of nowhere, mainly because we never really got that interaction between Robyn and Clover to really have her make that conclusion.
Both stories also have a “Save the android who has the ability we want to keep out of the bad guy’s hands” thing going for them. But there’s a stark difference between the two deaths.
With Vision, his death comes at the hands of Wanda, his love interest. The person whom they both confide in each other with, and the person who he trusts with his life. So when Wanda kills him to keep the stone out of Thanos’ hands, it’s tragic. And when Thanos uses the Time Stone to undo all of that, and make her efforts all for naught, it’s even more tragic. Wanda had to see her soon-to=be-husband die twice.
But with Penny, her death comes at the hands of… Jaune. A character that she barely had any interaction with. Instead of it being Nora, the person who reassured her that the virus that was hurting her was only a “part” of her and that it didn’t define her, it was Jaune. Instead of it being Winter, the person whom she was effectively partnered with since Ciel was forgotten, it was Jaune. Instead of it being Emerald, the person who killed her the first time, it’s fucking Jaune. A character whose most significant interaction with her was boosting her aura so that she could fight off the virus.
Now, both endings are kinda similar too.
Except where Infinity War’s ending was done and it was blatantly clear that it was because everyone was separated and that it was because Thanos had basically already won, and the fact that it was also because the war against Thanos wasn’t over yet, this ending makes it clear that the war for Atlas was lost. And while the show does also show us that the war for Remnant is far from over, the way they did it makes it feel as if they wanted to emulate Infinity War, but had no real idea as to what made it work in the first place. It’s a lot like a lot of the other things they tried to emulate. Like the “Introduce your character by having them stop a robbery” thing. They know it works, but they don’t know why or how it works.
This overall helplessness and the idea that the bad guys win sometimes was done better in Infinity War because they knew what they were doing. And yes. I do acknowledge that it’s unfair to compare a multi-million dollar movie that was ten years in the making to a single volume that was likely thrown together with the hotpot of notes that were left behind, and that Infinity War also had more than a bunch of underpaid animators working on it, but still! It feels like they had this whole thing worked out in Volume 7. Penny had the maiden powers, Winter was in conflict with what Ironwood was doing, Qrow was feeling guilt at not being able to save Clover, the main teams had to look for Oscar again, there was a set up for team work that needed to be done, it felt like a lot of things were thrown in for the sake of the plot, only for it to not be capitalized on in later moments.
Ruby’s squad wanted to save everyone, and didn’t have a plan until Oz decided to show up again and tell them what the relic could do. At least Jaune’s squad had a plan. And given how his last few plans worked out, it’s a miracle that it actually worked.
The separate hero squads in Infinity War all also had plans of their own. Yeah, they all failed, but at least they actually had a plan. With this, only one team had a plan, and it got derailed because Oscar got kidnapped by a grimm that can only break aura in a single hit after a few in-universe minutes of being petted by Salem.
This volume tried to be Infinity War, but ended up being Dawn of Justice… And we already had that volume in the form of Volume 4. This show needs to stop trying to juggle too many things at once and start focusing on one big thing, and also needs to close up the things that they haven’t really closed up.
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19-bellwether · 3 years
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in less disappointing news im just now realizing this volume can basically be summed up as "Team RWBYJNORQ's terrible, awful, no-good, very bad day" and thats kinda funny.
Soon to be followed up by "Volume 9: Team RWBYJNORQEPCN's Plunge Into The Abyss."
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itsclydebitches · 4 years
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Wait Raven joined Salem?! I can't remember this but then again I have a shaky memory at best. Do you know which episode(s) cover it? (Idk why I care, I actively decided I'm not watching volume 8 after 7's train wreck but I'm admittedly still invested in some of the characters. I only like Raven because I love her outfit and weapon lol.)
Lol that’s as good a reason as any to like a character :D
This was back in Volume 5 after Yang and Weiss had left Raven. She’s the Spring Maiden but has been passing off her second in command, Vernal, as the Maiden instead, hiding the powered-up eyes behind her mask. Cinder, Emerald, and Watts approach her about opening the vault for Salem. It’s partly coercion - we’re not giving you a choice here - but also partly teaming up - Raven is ready to kill Qrow and this attack can do that. So they head to Haven together: Raven, Vernal, Emerald, Mercury, Cinder, and Lionheart all facing off against RWBYJNORQ. Ruby asks Raven to re-join them, she refuses, and everyone fights with Raven going after Qrow. Eventually she, Cinder, and Vernal go down to the vault, Vernal is killed, Raven beats Cinder since her personal plan all along was to snag the relic, but Yang convinces Raven that the lamp would be too much of a target on her back so she should let her take it instead. Then she leaves. 
So it’s not a team-up in the sense of, “Boy do I want to help Salem take over the world!” but it is a “I willingly teamed up with her in order to further my own agenda.” Raven is terrified of Salem and, much like Lionheart, decided that helping her was the best option if the end result kept her safe. So to summarize: Raven is a deadly bandit (Oniyuri grimm attack) who abandoned the Salem fight (taking the bird powers with her), killed the former Maiden for her power, kidnapped and tried to ransom Weiss, gave Yang incredibly misleading information about Ozpin, let Vernal carry the danger of being the “Maiden,” teamed up with Salem’s group, attacked the protagonists, got Vernal killed, tried to take the relic, decided it was safer for her if Yang carried that threat instead, and then ran. Hence my previous disbelief that she’s been treated with/animated with more care and empathy than Ozpin, who did exactly what the group did in Volume 7. Or Ironwood who (prior to randomly murdering people) was just trying to save lives. 
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bridgyrose · 3 years
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That certainly was an episode. Ten bucks says that by the end of the volume, Salem is back and manages to wreck Atlas with whatever remaining grimm are nearby since Ironwood isnt even going to wait til the whale is fully gone before going after RWBYJNORQ again. 
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neptunevasilias · 4 years
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Ok so I have some Thoughts on that part at the very beginning of the trailer with Salem and Cinder, however I have not seen any of the blogs I follow say this so I’ll make my own post I suppose.
Something I haven’t see people acknowledge is the entirety of what Salem says: “This game is not yours to win, it’s mine. All you need concern yourself with is your ability to act when I tell you to.” I feel like people skip over that first sentence because upon first watching the trailer it seems like she’s saying it to RWBYJNORQ, not Cinder. So first off, what does that sentence mean?
Well, the entirety of this meta is based on this post, which to sum up states that in order to keep Cinder under control, Salem needs to walk a fine line between making her efforts feel appreciated, but also condemning the fact that she did this of her own free will. Otherwise, Cinder might leave, either because she doesn’t feel welcome or because she feels like she can(and maybe even should) strike out on her own, possibly both.
So let’s go back to what Salem tells Cinder in the trailer. The first sentence is particularly interesting. There are two possible meanings to it, although I’ll get to the second meaning later. But on a surface level, Salem is saying that the “game”(the war) is not about Cinder, it’s not something for her to get glory from. It’s about Salem, so Cinder should know her place. And I don’t think I need to explain the second sentence. In summary, she tells her “I’m the hot shot here, all you need to do is what I tell you to do.” That... doesn’t do either of the things I explained in the paragraph above. It doesn’t make her feel appreciated for her efforts, but it also doesn’t necessarily condemn the things she did on her own. All it’s saying is “from now on, do as I tell you,” without anything about Cinder’s behavior the previous three volumes.
This is why I think Cinder going to officially leave Salem’s faction this volume, maybe even early on in it. Because Salem already has a good chance of failing this volume, and losing Cinder would just be another failure if that ends up being the case. In fact, losing Cinder might end up being being a contributing factor to why she fails.
Of course, there’s also the fact that Salem is quickly becoming Cinder’s new evil stepmother. I’m not the first person to say all of this, and I also don’t want to spend too much time talking about this, so I’ll keep this short: Cinder has an “old” set of characters that match her allusion, and a “new” set of characters. Atlas was her old evil stepmother, Salem her fairy godmother, maiden powers her carriage, and Ironwood her Prince Charming. Now, though, Salem is turning into her evil stepmother, the rest of her faction(particularly Watts and Tyrian) her stepsisters, and Neo her fairy godmother. And because Salem is now becoming the evil stepmother in Cinder’s story, she is bound to leave the faction sooner or later.
So back to the scene from the trailer. Pay attention to what Cinder says, and how that scene is shot: “Without you, I am nothing.” It seems like she’s submitting to Salem, but her eyes are hidden. 
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This is a classic way of showing that a character is hiding something, is not being honest, or is emotionally closed off. All of this could apply to Cinder. Remember, what Salem has just told her does NOT follow what was previously outlined for what she would have to say to Cinder. And Cinder isn’t above lip service, she could very well be saying what SALEM needs to hear, therefore beating her at her own... game.
This is what I mean by the (possible) double meaning behind “this game is not yours to win, it’s mine.” This meaning is not one that Salem intended, it’s more a meta interpretation of the line. The first meaning explained earlier in the post is watsonian, and this one is doylist. Basically, while the in-universe “game” that Salem is referring to is the war between her and ozpin/ruby’s factions, the one that she is unknowingly referring to that the writers may be nodding at is the manipulation battle between her and Cinder. Because (in my opinion) Salem may have unknowingly said the wrong thing to Cinder, and Cinder is paying lip service to Salem, which Salem presumably buys. Thus, Cinder has beaten her at this game. This makes what Salem says ironic, because the game really was Cinder’s to win.
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the8worldking · 4 years
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RWBY Volume 7: RWBYJNORQ And Ironwood situation
Recently I’ve been seeing discussions of the “who was in the right/wrong at the end of volume 7” coming back. And I’ve decided to put my input on this. I believe that BOTH sides are in the right and wrong. Let’s start with Ironwood’s decision to flee. What he is right about is his descion to ensure Salem can never abstain what she truly wants, the maiden and staff of creation. He’s thinking about the entire war and not one fight, like most generals do. And Grimm can’t survive the altitudes he’s trying to raise atlas to, so that one problem taken care of. Now he’s wrong for abandoning millions to die by Grimm or the extreme cold of atlas’ tundras. That many lives lost is truly horrific and the general would defiantly be haunted by that action for the rest of his days. And another thing is his isolating of atlas. He says he has the resources to help the city survive, but how long would they last? To the point where there would be panic rising and possible riots from the frustrations. And his belief of “being out of Salem’s reach” isn’t exactly factual. Yes normal Grimm wouldn’t be able to surveive the altitudes, but this is SALEM, queen of darkness/Grimm we are talking about! She is capable of editing and improving Grimm as we’ve seen in show. I’m pretty sure she has a contengency plan for your little “high ground” tactic. Cause she’s full on ready to SMACK atlas back down to the dirt. And now for RWBYJNORQ’s aids of things. They are right in morality. They are thinking of the innocents civilians, and sticking together instead of being divided like Salem wants. But they are wrong in believing in the things they could do to save atlas with little to no time at all. There’s still ALOT of work needed to be done to amity arena before it could launch, the time needed is well beyond what Salem would allow. So calling for help isn’t an option. Plus standing your ground against Salem, who probably made much more horrifying Grimm types in large quantities, would be really bad decision. And the exhausted army from helping mantle isn’t gonna do well in a fight like what’s about to come. Salem played the game better, and pushed both sides against a wall. Ironwood has a VERY SHIT plan while RWBYJNORQ has NONE! Thus making ironwoods VERY SHIT plan, the best by default. However, RWBYJNORQ has there morality and hope. And their best plan is to save as many people as they can from atlas inevitable doom. And thanks to the didvide between both, Salem’s win is assured. Both sides will get atlas and mantle destroyed. Or save one and destroy the other
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nitw · 4 years
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rank rwbyjnorq and penny! (gee i wonder who #1 will be, mr. leo "qrow" branwen)
LISTEN i suck at ranking characters....they're all so good and i may have a personal bias towards qrow BUT they're all great dude............don't make me choose :c
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kawaii-kozume · 4 years
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Okay, okay, okay.
Here's my take on Ironwood this season and it's really short so, I'm sorry.
He's doing the thing that pits the needs of many vs the needs of few. Out of fear and unknown.
He decided the needs of many outweigh the needs of few.
Now, why did he go that way?
The relics and winter maiden are endangered by Salem coming. He *will* do what it takes to stop Salem and keep those things safe. He cannot see a future where they finish evacuating Mantle and those things are safe. And in all fairness, can FNDM see a future where that happens? I can't.
Okay, so now, was Ironwood right in making the call he did? No. But would it have been fair to the rest of the world to lose what RWBYJNORQ worked so hard to save? No.
In all honesty, everything's a loss right now and we can only hope that something comes along that gives our protags the upper hand, or we *will* see the fall of some loved characters.
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swapauanon · 4 years
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If I were to change on thing about “As Above, So Below”, I would’ve had a scene of Ironwood reaching for Due Process, before Weiss burst into the room, with the implication being that he was going to permanently deal with the Atlas Council and Robyn Hill right then and there until Weiss unknowingly saved their lives. I wouldn’t draw attention to it, I’d just position the camera so that eagle-eyed viewers would realize he had a hand on his gun when Weiss entered the room.
I don’t know if it would’ve shut up his stans, but it would’ve made him a heck of a lot scarier.
Edit: Also I’d add hints of “Lionize” to the score of any scene where Ironwood is suspiciously generous to hint at the twist that all of his gifts to RWBYJNORQ come with a catch.
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helihi · 5 years
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The Good, The Bad, and The Dirty: RWBY Vol 7 Ep 2
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#EveryoneWhenIronwoodSharedHisPlan #EveryoneWhenOscarLiedToHim #EveryoneWhenRubyLiedToHim
Overall rating of the episode: 7/10
Spoilers ahead.
The Good
The first part of the episode reveals one of the main conflicts the characters are going to deal with this season in 3 parts:
The gang is cuffed in the back of a police truck, treated like criminals, with no explanation to what’s going to happen to them and no voice. They land in Atlas Academy, and are escorted and watched over by unfriendly guards. However, as soon as they meet Ironwood, Winter, and Penny, they are uncuffed and treated as guests. The people in charge are known allies.
Ironwood openly shares his plan with them: the first part, completely rational and smart. Let’s build the first satellite to restore worldwide communication, a win for everyone! However, the reveal that Ironwood plans to reveal the existence of Salem to the world, it causing panic, and his willingness to sacrifice Mantle for Atlas safety is deeply concerning.
While Ironwood is honest about everything with RWBYJNORQ, Ruby and Oscar lie to him. They are very smart about what to lie: Oz not having a plan at all and Jinn having 1 question left.
Don’t get me wrong, I understand why they wouldn’t share the bad news with Ironwood; he’s clearly not stable and all the policies he has chosen to enforce are out of fear, not for the wellbeing of his people. This will come and bite everyone in the ass in the end. I do think that Oz wasn’t the smartest with dealing with Salem in the past, but I’m not sure suddenly revealing to the world who Salem is like that will help.
That Schnee reunion was so freaking sweet, and everything I expected them to be. While I can’t wait for them to talk, I’m also afraid of any tension dwelling between them. Winter’s authority and rigidness makes her cold to most, but when it comes to her sister, she melts.
Winter is not the winter maiden like everyone believed. 👀 The way Winter refers to her blatantly shows that she’s not the maiden. I’m slightly inclined to believe it’s Willow because of the reference of the maiden’s“condition”, but that’s just a stab in the dark. We don’t know that many people from Atlas to be sure.
Robin Hill is formally introduced by the other captured Mantle citizen, and the unstable reality of the kingdom is shown again. Happy huntresses, eh?
I’m glad the writers included their outfit change as a canon “upgrade” the characters should take advantage now in Atlas.
I’m happy to learn more about Ironwood’s squad, and wonder if the god faunus and Blake are going to bond or discuss the reality of Atlesian faunus.
Good introduction for Waligui Watts as a character. He doesn’t give a shit about anyone, but himself. He was one of the elite people of Atlas, it appears to be. I wonder why nobody suspects him. Raven did imply he had fallen from grace. 
The following scene with Tyrian having murdered a person is a perfect contrast to Watts calculative methods and his tendency to do harm without direct violence.
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The Bad:
I honestly felt that the wonky movements of the captured dude at the back of the van was completely unnecessary and cheap. You can be funny without alluding to the loony tunes. He was an obvious expositional character, and that’s cheap
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The Dirty:
Overall the chapter was very informative, and though I’m thankful that it’s the same length as the first chapter, it felt kinda short. Some characters where just in the background doing not much.
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Final Rating: 7/10
A/N: WINTER IS BACK. NOW GIVE ME BACK KLEIN. WHERE’S WEISS’S REAL FATHER.
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rubyneo · 4 years
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ok just accidentally had a thought,, ren,, but! trans. solidarity w ruby and blake? they ride the down w cis bus and salems the first to go, even if shes a milf. :(
bro i straight up love nonbinary trans ren. here lemme. lemme give u the run down of my gender headcanons for rwbyjnorq
ruby - trans girl
blake - nonbinary
weiss - demigirl!
yang - trans girl
ren - nonbinary
jaune - trans boy
nora - trans girl
oscar - trans boy
qrow - nonbinary
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yoshimickster · 5 years
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Rwby Volume 6 episode 5 “The Coming Storm” Micksterecap: The Not-much-Happening(spoilers)
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Hey everybody, hope you had a happy Turkey day! I did, despite the MASSIVE mess I had to clean up, EITHER WEITHER-let’s GET to the Micksterecap!
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We start out with Cinder returning to Little Miss Mauve (I know its malachite, but malachites are naturally GREEN dammit) who tells her that Team RWBYJNORQ was headed to Argus, and through the most BASIC of basic ass deductions realizes they were going to Atlas.
With that, Cinder than walks out of their with noooooooooooo catc-
LilMiss: You know you turned out to be quite the interesting customer *DRAMATIC PAUSE OF DRAMATICISM* Cinder.
Oooooooooooooh crap she knows who she is, well that’s okay its not like she told anyone who might want to kill her for leading an attack that got their boss/implied lover kill-
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2:42 Oooooooooooooh boy, BUST OUT THAT MAGIC CINDY-its fightnin’ time!
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2:49 LilMiss: Maybe put away the GOOD glasses.
Chaps:...wait if we knew the mute ice cream lady was gonna try and kill the skeleton handed burnt face lady in a HUGE scuffle...why’d we leave the good glasses out at all?
LilMiss: THAT’S WHAT I’M SAYING-whoever the hell our busboy is they are SO getting a stern talking to!
Neo starts it out with a classic SMASH AND SHATTER-
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Neo than hits left, hits right, while Cinder blocks every other hit, making Neo pull the EVER FAMOUS-
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BOWL TOSS MANEUVER!
LilMiss: Okay seriously, who left my nice glass bowls out for these bitches to smash? THIS IS A BUSINESS!
Cinder strikes punches, Neo umbrellas away AND THEN CINDER REMEMBERS-
3:38
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Cinder: OH YEAH-i have magical superpowers, the FUCK was I doing?!
But all good bar fights come to a close as Lil Miss tells them to take it outside-
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3:47 
LilMiss: Please take this outside or my...associates will force you to.
Cinder:...w...wait, why should I be threatened by you and your gang of mooks? I have the powers of ancient magic and she’s got some OP unexplained mirror quirk, why the hell should EITHER of us be threatened by you?
LilMiss: Because the plot SAYS SO!
Cinder:...EH-I’m easy! TOSS ME NEO!
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3:52 SMASH!
LilMiss: Okay everyone, let’s treat this as a learning experience, when setting up meetings between two people who want to kill each other, do NOT make the meeting in your bar full of breakable glass.
Chaps: Yeah we could’ve set this up WAY better, now we’re gonna have to call the cleaning guy for just ONE stupid meeting, not to mention we’re gonna have to patch that window-UGH-mondays.
Outside Neo pulls a QUICK DODGE-but Cinder’s too smart for that, as she AUTOMATICALLY blasts a fireball at Neo’s umbrella,  UNDER WHICH REVEALS-
4:08
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GAH ROMAN’S HAT ITS ROMAN’S HAT...wait, where the hell was she keeping that thing? Was she using her illusion powers on JUST her head and her tattered clothes for this whole fight, JUST to remind Cinder that her boss/boyfriend died in that attack? There’s EXTRA, and then there’s Neopolitan folks!
After a brief and pointless sword on umbrella fight-
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-heh, love those swords, Cinder ONCE AGAIN remembers-
4:39
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Cinder: Oh yeah, I have superpowers...fuck, where IS my head today?
Cinder than calmly tells Neo that they both have a common enemy in Ruby, and decide to start a BLOODPACT to kill her, RIGHT before this scene
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Cinder: Okay then, let’s talk.
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Cinder:...right.
Jesus Cinder, forgetting you have powers, forgetting your co-worker’s a mute(CANON), where the FUCK is your head today?
A. THEN. CUT. TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-
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5:11 Brunswick farms, formerly a BUSTLING agricultural scene, now a (possibly literal) ghost town where team RWBYQOM(pronounced Ruby Com for you filthy casuals who didn’t know) is staying for the night!
After Ruby briefly wanders why the a completely intact town wasn’t ravished or incomplete like MOST villages. The team busts inside a locked house where ITS REVEALED-
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5:54 NOTHING! 
Qrow: Aw dammit, no bad guys? Busted down a door for nothing. Ah well-WHERE’S THE BOOZE?
After Maria rightfully tells them to shut the door they broke, Ruby than looks at-A PHOTO!
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6:42 HOO boy, if “A series of Unfortunate Events” has taught me anything, its that the people in a mysterious group photo are either all dead, part of a secret society, or BOTH!
Weiss: *SCREAMS*
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7:03 CALLED IT!
After blanketing a LOGICALLY traumatized Weiss-
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7:21 How the hell can a screen shot look so cozy and so terrified all at the same time?
-Qrow than comes in telling everybody that EVERYONE in the village is dead, and because of the heavy snow they can’t leave. Yo Qrow, do that have a Semblance equivalent of Meta-cuffs yet, like from the Flash? Because your Misfortune power is getting a LITTLE irksome to our main cast.
Making the best they got, everybody decides that no-one besides Qrow goes out alone while looking for supplies, and BLAKE-
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8:22
Blake: Yang and I can go search for other vehicles.
-capitalizes on a chance to get back on Yang’s good side, which LOGICALLY-
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-either Yang sees RIGHT through it, or is STILL logically mad at her high school love interest for abandoning her. MAN am I glad I’m not these kids.
Ruby than takes-
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-her OBVIOUSLY still traumatized potential girlfriend on a food search. Look at her, she looks like one of those victims on a cop show. THUS LEAVING OSCAR-
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9:10 -left alone with a totally not mysterious old lady, whose totally not gonna tell a story that in NO WAY ties into anything in the plot...totally.
Blake and Yang continue their not-date of looking for vehicles in one of the sheds-WHERE THEY FIND-
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10:18 A CART-that they can put Yang’s now-useless motorcycle on if and when they find a car with snow tires! Well that’s nice, I’m sure Yang isn’t gonna see anything els-
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10:22 GAH-possibly real, possibly just trauma Adam-RUN!
After realizing it was just a PTSD flashback(OR WAS IT) Yang mentions how that attack still effected her, and I’m SURE Blake wouldn’t make her mad by comforting Yang wron-
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11:21 Blake: I’ll protect you.
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Yang:...what?!
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH-bad move on Blake folks, she starts out strong by saying she’ll be by her side but then FUMBLES at the last minute implying that Yang isn’t someone who can take care of herself and needs protection. I don’t know HOW Blake will come out on top this season, but we still got half-way to go.
After that Yangsty scene where they decide to hook the flatbed...TO Bumblebee instead of putting said cycle ON the flatbed with a vehicle behind it-HA THEN CUT TO-
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11:50-Ruby and Weiss(who ISN’T wearing a blanket, continuity, WHAT’S that?), who lucky for them find a FULLY stocked liquor cabinet and bar, which I’m sure Ruby has NO problem with at al-
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Ruby: On second thought, maybe we should keep this room closed. I’m just...not sure how well my uncle’s taking all of this.
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Weiss:...Oh.
God DAMN this is a bad day of discoveries for Weiss, first she sees TWO dead bodies, THAN realizes that Ruby has negative feelings about her uncle’s drinking problem. BUT MORE THAN THAT-the show FINALLY addresses that Qrow’s drinking problem...is a problem, instead of just “TEE HEE-he’s drunk!”
After that, bla bla bla, serious conversation about still going to Atlas given the fact that Salem is an immortal killing machine and their quest may be ultimately fruitless, going into a room with a spooky door that obviously holds Satan-BUT ENOUGH ABOUT THAT-
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13:20 FUCK YEAH-Three Brothers Beans, SHRIMP flavored! Because when you wanna start a barbecue and only got enough cash for either beans OR shrimp, Three Brothers got your back with a great combination. Three Brothers, available at all Just Rites close to abandoned villages.
After Weiss begrudgingly agrees to eat poor people food, CLOSE IT OUT-
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*CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAK* *SLAM!*
Weiss: Hey Ruby, did you just hear a door slam just now?
Ruby: All I hear is how mother-flippin’ TASTY these shrimp-beans are gonna be! 
So yeah while it had a cool opening fight scene, YET another build-up episode to this season’s big bad Grimm, and I guess its fine but I just want more scenes of the team KICKING ASS y’know? Either way, an okay mostly expository ep but I hope next week is better. SEE YA NEXT TIME on Micksterecap! And if you wanna donate to my Paypal or Kofi, just ask me first! I’d put the links up but this recap is two hours late as is.
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