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#your fave deserves growth
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SOLDIER from TEAM FORTRESS 2 deserves growth and a brighter future!
Requested by @kaz3313
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seyaryminamoto · 5 months
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hello! I really like your meta about Zuko, and I'm so glad that I finally found a person who also thinks that Zuko in book 3 is a much worse person than he was in the book 1. I always thought that something was wrong with me, since literally no one sees this obvious fact for me! But I would like to ask you: What do you think about Katara in book 3? the fact is that she was my favorite character in books 1 and 2, and the way she was written in book 3 upset me a lot. it seems to me that they spoiled her character, but I can't explain why. Please share your thoughts!
Glad you've enjoyed my extensive meta on the fandom's fave, haha. I did write a lot about him, always nice to know my thoughts on the subject are still deemed relevant.
As for Katara... well, I have thoughts on her, too. My experience with her character is quite similar to yours, I'd say, because I too felt a lot better about her character in the first two seasons of the show compared with the third. I don't usually give this a ton of thought, but after your ask, I figured I'd try and figure out what exactly went down with her that made people like us feel so uncomfortable with Katara's portrayal at multiple points of Book 3...
For starters, I'll say I vibed with Katara a lot when I started the show for reasons beyond her being a great character or being written wonderfully: she could very well have been written mediocrely and I would have loved her anyway simply because I ran away from anime to ATLA in an era where anime kept shoehorning incest undertones into every sibling relationship, even in shows that didn't have that as a core subject. It happened at least twice that I can remember, I kept seeing people raving about shows where it WAS the core of it (I still do not understand the Oreimo deal, like, the minute I read that show's title I puked in my mouth and knew I'd never watch it), and I just needed... safety from that concept, I guess?
So when I went into ATLA, and the first sibling relationship you're exposed to is Sokka and Katara, two siblings who very much act like siblings? I was thriving. It was thrilling. I felt so refreshed that I think I didn't care much about the flaws of Book 1, despite my inability to sense direction for most of it, because thank the universe, it was a sibling relationship that made sense to me!
With that as an opening, I'd say that, initially, I thought Katara was fine for most of Book 1. In Book 2? She fell off the radar for me a bit simply because other characters are introduced that just appeal to me so much more than she does. I vibe better with characters like Azula, who tend to be the type of female character I just LOVE, and with characters like Toph, she's a tomboy, I was a tomboy (... was? x'D maybe I shouldn't use past tense...), so I gravitated much more towards those two by no real fault of Katara's core personality traits. Back in Book 1, there aren't as many main characters, so you don't have a lot of variety to choose faves from. It's not that strange, I think, that once the cast broadens, people's interest in certain characters can scatter too.
But then Book 3 happened, and I just couldn't enjoy Katara outside of episodes where she wasn't that important. The Katara-centric episode of Book 3 stand among my least favorite episodes of ATLA altogether, and among the least likely episodes I'd ever want to rewatch. I literally skipped over The Painted Lady in my first rewatches of the show, every bit as much as I skipped The Great Divide or Avatar Day, both of which annoy me a lot in the first two seasons. The Puppetmaster? Not even close to being an episode I could enjoy. Even the Runaway, that's supposed to be Toph-centric, ends up making me count down the minutes for it to end and I'm not even going to get started on The Southern Raiders and the absolute can of worms that episode is...
So, with all this being said, if we peel this particular cabbage open little by little...
After mulling it over, I've grown to suspect that Katara has major inconsistency issues since day one that most people don't particularly like to acknowledge, and that flew over most of our heads from the beginning of the show. She's pretty much portrayed to us as an empath, someone who has so much heart that she can't help but feel everyone's pain and suffer with them all the time. The fandom 100% acts like that's who she is (while also obsessively adultifying her unnecessarily, and forcing her into the mom!friend role, which... we'll talk about that later)
But this is also the same character who, when her brother banished Aang from the Southern Water Tribe as early as in episode 2, protested in a very particular way once Aang was gone. Which one of these statements sound more accurate to Katara's character, and a suitable protest for her to proclaim upon witnessing this injustice against Aang?
"Aang is alone! How could you send him away on his own? He could be in danger, Sokka! He's just a kid!"
"The Air Nomads are gone, Sokka! Where do you think he'll go? He doesn't have a home to go back to and you just sent him away!"
"You happy now? There goes my one chance at becoming a waterbender!"
If you ask the fandom? They'll most likely think that her reaction was either #1 or #2.
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Surprise surprise: it was actually #3
I'm not saying she didn't show empathy towards Aang while Sokka was ranting at him, because she did. I'm not saying she wasn't willing to be banished along with Aang until Sokka asks if she'd choose pretty much a total stranger over their family and tribe, because she was. She absolutely did all those things.
... So why would she focus only on how he represented her one chance at becoming a waterbender once Aang is gone?
This feels off to me. I've never particularly liked that line. And you could absolutely say that Katara has every right to be mad at losing her chance to reclaim an aspect of her culture that she cannot connect to, but the way it was framed here? It absolutely makes Katara look more selfish than she actually was. The wording is not good. The show doesn't emphasize, at this point, that bending is such a core and crucial part of their culture and that Katara feels a major responsibility in being the ONLY person in the South Pole that can keep it alive. So it just comes off as a child's tantrum. Sokka's concerns were 100% valid too, even if he went about them while being a jerk (he is, indeed, an older brother...). He wasn't even wrong in the end about how dangerous Aang was to their tribe, since Aang's mishap with Katara on the ship gives away his position to Zuko, and it results in Zuko ramming a huge ship into their home and nearly killing people in the process. But you DON'T see the show fully framing it as though Katara and Aang did something wrong -- it was an honest mistake. We know it was. Sokka is framed as unreasonable for being so paranoid even though later events in the very episode prove he wasn't.
And that's... the crux of the issue with Katara's writing. If you ask me.
There are far too many instances where Katara makes mistakes that she's not held accountable for, that she doesn't apologize for, that run against the core logic and principles of her character and they either get shrugged off or overlooked. There are far too many situations where she acts out, and is a jerk at her jerk of a brother, even unprompted on occasion, and it's supposed to just be funny. One particularly stood out to me when I revisited it a few years ago, I can't really remember what for (maybe when I was writing Jeong Jeong's arc in Gladiator and I had a look at the fishing village...?), but it's the famous flashback episode in Book 1: The Storm.
The scene in question is... humorous. Supposedly. Katara is trying to buy fruit in the market but then realizes they have no money to pay for it. Not only does Katara piss off the vendor, but the vendor actually takes her rage out on Sokka once she realizes these kids won't give her any business: he gets kicked in the rear, as the transcript's description says. No one protests the woman's violent reaction, not even Sokka. Katara most certainly doesn't do it. But that's not all there is to it: Sokka doesn't hold what happened with the fruit vendor against Katara, they have a conversation on how they have no money and no food... and Katara offers him the golden ticket solution to their problems:
"You could get a job, smart guy."
Am I too feminist for thinking it's insane that Katara expects her brother alone to get the job? That she's not saying the THREE of them should get jobs? She and Aang are BENDERS! That's an asset most people aren't likely to find in any would-be employees in the central Earth Kingdom! So... wouldn't it be logical for all of them to do it? But no, instead, Sokka alone has to get the job?
And yes, I know, Sokka is the provider, Sokka is the protector, Sokka would do ANYTHING for his sister and the people he loves: you ask the fandom, though, and that's Katara instead of him. Moments like these simply do not exist in the fandom's eyes and, if they do, they're just excusable because Sokka is boring/weird/annoying/insert-demeaning-nonsense-here and Katara is a queen who can do whatever she wants.
Then, the consequences arrive once Sokka gets a dangerous job on a fishing boat and nearly gets killed in a storm. Aang is the one who shows concern about the potential storm when the fisherman's wife brings it up: from all I can see in the transcript, there's nothing from Katara. Sokka says they told him to get a job, so that's what he's doing, and there's no manifestation of concern from either of them about maybe joining him on this fishing trip to ensure he's safe. Instead, Aang is haunted by his past and Katara goes with him when he leaves, which, yes, is very important for context on the Air Nomads and Aang's life... and yet we don't really NEED for this scene to be Katara and Aang only. It could've included Sokka too. The plot of the second half of the episode would change? Likely. They could've come up with another idea, and not shown us a Katara who doesn't show concern for her brother's safety or any remorse when her unfair demands or expectations from him could result in catastrophic outcomes :') yes, she worries about Sokka's safety once the storm hits, but there's no sign of her feeling responsible for Sokka being out in the storm at all. No apology. Which is ironic, because Zuko apologizes to Iroh in that very same episode, hence, an apology from Katara to her brother could have mirrored that side of the story well, and they REALLY loved doing Zuko-Gaang parallel scenes like that, so it would have fit perfectly! Didn't happen, though.
Point being... Katara's compassion and empathy are not absolute. It's important to keep in mind is that they don't need to be! But precisely because she falters with them in moments where she REALLY shouldn't, with people as important to her as her own brother? It becomes very difficult to believe that she's the empath the fandom is convinced she is, and that the show's narrative tries to push her as.
The real reason why her failure to show compassion to Sokka in "humorous" situations feels so unnerving isn't because she's a typical little sister who takes her brother for granted (which is a perfectly logical/believable behavior!): it's because there are no consequences for it. Maybe at some point or another there were? But I for one can't remember many instances where Katara failed Sokka and it was framed as her fault and her responsibility. Let's look at other Book 1 instances that exemplify what I mean:
She freezes him to the deck of Zuko's ship, which puts Sokka in MAJOR danger, and she just tells him to hurry up as if it weren't her fault that he's frozen in the first place. We don't even see her making efforts to thaw him out of there when she IS the waterbender so it seems logical that she should be able to help with that (and if she's too inexperienced to do it? The least she can do to help her brother out of a dangerous situation is to TRY???). But apparently it's funny that she doesn't help him when it's her fault! So this is fine!
She endangers the entire group over the waterbending scroll, which, of course, the pirates had no right to have anyway and it's reasonable that she'd want it for herself... but she antagonized a group of fully adult, dangerous, potential murderous pirates, against Sokka's constant warnings that they shouldn't pick that particular fight. As far as I can remember? Her apologies on that episode are exclusively about how she hurt Aang's feelings by being jealous over his greater talents as a bender. Basically, nothing for Sokka, no apology for not listening to him about danger, making it worse when the very final moment features Katara proudly telling her brother that she won't steal things... unless it's from pirates. So lesson not learned because it's funny, again, to never acknowledge that Sokka has a point.
She actually cares about Sokka's fate in Jet! But the thing is... the narrative doesn't frame that as Katara's fault. Because it's not. Jet made his choices and he did awful things and he captured Sokka, lied and gaslit everyone, because he had a goal to fulfill and he used Katara to make that happen. As angry and upset as Katara is, it's not exactly shown that Katara is sorry for having trusted Jet when Sokka could have ended up paying a deadly price for it. She's angry at the betrayal, even in Book 2 it's constantly framed as though Katara is upset at him as an ex-girlfriend would be upset at her ex-boyfriend for lying to her rather than, you know, being pissed at him for nearly killing her brother + an entire village. My point is, the narrative framing never holds her responsible for Jet's choices. Which, again, she's not. But she IS responsible for her own choices... and one of those choices was disregarding Sokka's warnings about Jet. THAT was her fault, and her responsibility. She jumped to conclusions and assumed that Sokka was bitter and jealous that Jet was the charming cool leader Sokka could never be. There were no apologies to Sokka over that, either.
I could go on, and on, and on. The truth is, I bring all this up to show with solid evidence that Katara's writing was always a little... unstable. Weird. Disconnected from logic in many regards, I'd say. It's not logical/compatible to tell us that this character has the BIGGEST heart of the entire cast when she fails to show that heart to none other than her own brother, who is inarguably the person who she knows best and with whom she should share the closest relationship, even as her friendship with Aang grows and thrives. That makes no sense, thematically speaking.
Is it meant to be comedic? Yes, every bit as much as Iroh sexually harassing June was done for comedy's sake. That's not an excuse for characters behaving in ways that are thematically contrary to what they're supposed to be portraying... and along with that? No excuse for them facing zero consequences for that behavior. Which is, in fact, my main issue with these flaws from Katara: I have no issue with the writing choices in the scenes I listed just now! I take issue, however, with the lack of follow-up and consequences that you can BET, 100%, would have befallen Sokka if it had been him instead of Katara acting that way. He faced consequences even for things he didn't do, for comedy's sake: he wouldn't have gotten away with disregarding Katara's safety as often as Katara did with him, no chance at all.
Ultimately, these scenes in Book 1 are kind of ignorable in the larger scheme of things (or at least, that's how the fandom has always acted). Not a lot of people take any of this as major proof of characterization for Katara. You won't see a lot of fic writers showing her acting like this. Canon, though, often would go down this route for funsies, and the comics certainly did it plenty too, that I can remember. Part of the issue here is that, as funny as it is, it also makes Katara feel stale as a character, as does the Sokka-Katara dynamic, at large, because there's no progression for it. That's probably my greatest gripe with the Great Divide, believe it or not: it fakes being an episode where Sokka and Katara are going to be confronted over their conflictive tendencies, and the ONLY potential development in that basically-filler episode SHOULD HAVE BEEN Sokka and Katara learning to be a bit more harmonious and respectful of each other? ... And that's just not what happened at all. The status quo remains exactly the same after that episode, and it continues to be like that until the end of the show.
The real reason why Sokka and Katara are deemed the healthy siblings is because, of course, compared with the other main set of siblings in the show, these two appear to get along wonderfully. But the truth is, their relationship is not as dynamic as it deserved to be. And that's part of why Book 3 ends up failing in ways Book 1 might not have, while having similar flaws: Book 1 is when you're still getting to know these kids, and that's why I find its flaws far more forgivable than anything that comes later. When there's basically no development for that connection at all, Book 3 winds up falling flat with characters like Sokka and Katara and the bond between them.
All this being said... I'm not saying that Katara is terrible in Book 1. I still stand by the fact that I really enjoyed her character in many instances of this season, there absolutely are situations where she sasses Sokka that still make me crack a smile, and genuinely humorous situations that don't paint her in a questionable light over her lack of concern for her brother's safety. Her fight to earn the right to be trained as a waterbender is deeeeeply flawed but it's not her fault, it's more the misogyny of the writers/creators that decided that a betrothal necklace from his past would make Pakku unlearn all his sexism and get over his bullshit right after beating up a girl who was fighting tooth and nail to make him acknowledge her. That he only acknowledges her because he wanted to marry her grandmother is... uh... fuckboi behavior even when he's well over 70 years of age? XD
So, yeah, Book 1 still has my favorite Katara of the entire show even though I REALLY wish she wouldn't get away with things that other characters wouldn't get a pass for (... well... other than Zuko...). I can't enjoy her as much as I enjoy other characters because I really don't like it when characters aren't held accountable for serious mistakes they made.
Moving on to Book 2, though, and leaving behind my greatest gripe with Katara's Book 1 writing (lack of direct consequences/self-reflection on her part), Book 2's biggest sin when it comes to Katara is the beginning of the "mothering" trope. I honestly did not feel motherly vibes from Katara towards anyone in Book 1. Sokka is very often the one playing the responsible role, while Aang and Katara are seeing the world, practicing their bending, doing reckless and fun things. The entire thing about Katara being the mom friend started in Book 2 when she suddenly becomes the epitome of responsibility (well... kinda) when Toph joins the group. She still does sketchy stuff with zero consequences (I'll forever complain about how ice is not cold in this show, the kids she froze to the wall may have been dicks, but freezing someone alive that way should have resulted in serious health repercussions, just as ANY case of freezing someone alive should have, ffs, be it Zuko in Book 1's finale or Azula + Katara in Book 3's...), but once Toph is part of the group, she becomes the cool girl who's "one of the boys", and now Katara is "the mom". This dynamic gets forced into the story pretty much right after Toph joins the group. And after that? It doesn't really change for the better often. There are only a handful of instances where Katara wasn't acting wholesome and comforting and kind and compassionate in Book 2 (... particularly with Sokka, ofc), but the point where her dynamics, even with Aang, start to feel motherly is definitely Book 2.
And this adds to the issue, in the end: Katara's appeal as the main girl in the show is suddenly gone because Toph is here, and she's a way more unique character that the writers definitely were having fun working with, probably more fun than they had with Katara. So they had to find a new niche for her, I'd dare guess. Thus, instead of actually building up an awesome and solid friendship between Katara and Toph, they mostly just clash and collide. Toph is basically the ONLY character who gives Katara grief and isn't framed as in the wrong for it, which is its own set of issues (namely, Toph not being challenged enough by the narrative, which stunts her character growth), but among many things, we suddenly get shown that Katara is a girly girl who likes makeup and she ropes Toph into this when nothing we've seen so far suggests that Toph would be comfortable with that. Katara pushes her into doing things because they're the "girls of the group"... and it doesn't often look like Toph's feelings on anything are important when Katara is pushing her around for whatever purpose. I'm not saying Toph hated the spa day, she certainly had fun eventually, but even when the comics made a "Katara and Toph's day out" story, where Toph got to choose what to do for once, the story devolved into Katara's show anyway, and things concluded with Toph deciding they're better off doing girly things together when they want to hang out because Katara is just too intense for the things Toph would like to do.
This isn't even in the show, but it's basically a response to Tales of Ba Sing Se to try and even out Katara and Toph's one-sided dynamic, where Katara calls the shots of their entertainment... and even then, Toph doesn't really get what she's looking for. But Katara does get that out of Toph because all she wants is a girl to do girly things with and Toph provides that in the end, no matter how much of a tomboy she may be. Toph might just want a friend who loves the things she loves, and who knows, Katara could be that person! But the story never leads her in that direction so we never see that happen. And that's why that particular friendship never really... clicked for me. Their dynamics don't really feel enjoyable to me as they were written in the show, even though they very much could have been.
That's one thing I'll always give ATLA: the character potential and synergy they captured with that cast could be absolutely incredible. Team Avatar is so iconic because they really could work well off each other. A lot of teams in other media just aren't this good (... one of my main reasons to not enjoy Voltron and drop it in season 1 was my absolute failure to find any synergy between those characters, it felt like they all hated each other and I honestly did not enjoy their dynamics in the least), but Aang, Katara and Sokka have great synergy due to their different personalities in Book 1. Same when Toph joins them in Book 2. Zuko ABSOLUTELY could have been better in the group than he was if Book 3 hadn't devolved into the Zuko Woobifying Show by the second half, where the only writing priority was making him friends with everyone, and making them all feel sorry for him and have compassion towards him. But, broken down to his core traits, Zuko's personality would have resulted in solid chemistry with everyone else's if they'd gotten off that agenda anyway! So ultimately, ATLA has a big win in this respect that a lot of TV shows would LOVE to recreate but they simply haven't struck the right kind of balance in character traits.
Hence why the way they wrote Toph and Katara's dynamics kind of feels like a betrayal to me. Those two could have been a lot of fun, they have EVERYTHING it takes to be entertaining characters with not a ton of things in common and yet building a solid friendship that hinges on their differences. I've seen a fair few examples of that kind of dynamic in other media, and it absolutely would be possible with Toph and Katara. It's really unfair that they couldn't capture their dynamics in such a way that both characters would SHINE, rather than constantly resorting to conflicts between them that never seemed to truly be resolved.
So: Toph should not be a problem for Katara. She should enhance her character and doesn't because of writing failures. One of the core failures is "mom friend Katara", of course: there's nothing inherently wrong with Katara stepping up and taking care of people she loves, but there's something very wrong with it when she's suddenly portrayed as this motherly figure when she's doing things that Sokka had been doing just fine in Book 1. Main reason why this is the case? Sokka got dumbed down to full-time class clown for whatever reason in Book 2. While he has good moments, a lot of times they went WAY overboard with making him a source of comedy this season and that, too, contributes to mom friend Katara. Since Sokka is being so meh? We even feel relieved that Katara is there to keep things together because nobody can expect the other three to do it, right? But... Sokka was doing it in Book 1. And there's no real development to explain him NOT doing it anymore once Toph joins in besides "Katara is now the mom friend and Sokka is just here to be funny". It's not organic development: it's forcing tropes that just don't fit. And while Katara's mothering doesn't feel as unpleasant as it could here, it ultimately forces a new interpretation and portrayal of her character that honestly isn't all that interesting, most of all when the other characters are constantly portrayed as "more fun" while she's just here to keep them in line.
It just isn't the same Katara we met in Book 1, and it shows in spades. Book 1 Katara would have been hyped to join Aang and Toph in chaos while Sokka screams at them to behave themselves. Book 2 Katara is the one trying to keep the other three in line, and there's genuinely zero development that led things to that stage. It's not organic storytelling. There's no growth that leads to that, and so, it feels off.
But the core problem of all these flaws in Book 1 and Book 2 is that they roll together and snowball into something far greater that then proceeds to just... disrupt everything we thought we knew or understood about Katara. We've been told she's a kind person above all else, someone who cares about people close to her, someone who embodies hope and strength and love...!
... And then Book 3 starts, and we're actually facing a Katara who shifts into a wholly different person with the speed of a whiplash that we're left not knowing who tf this is anymore.
"Mom friend Katara" absolutely comes back in Book 3, why lie? She takes care of people, she tries to provide, she tries to be nice and sweet and then also enforces discipline on Toph (particularly) when she's being irresponsible!
But the reason why The Runaway is such an unpleasant episode is because Katara's behavior is dialed up to a thousand, and the conflict between her and Toph feels WAY too similar to what it was when they were barely getting to know each other in The Chase. Why are they STILL clashing over such things? There are occasional glimpses of friendliness there in The Runaway, sure! But they're not so strong that you actually feel like that friendship supersedes their conflicts and their propensity to bicker and argue and hurt each other. Toph blatantly calls her out on her mothering and fully canonically confirms that Katara is The Mom Friend™. Where Toph is annoyed but eventually complies with doing what Katara wants to do in Tales of Ba Sing Se, this time Katara makes a huuuuuge fuss over Toph's misbehavior and her scamming Fire Nation people. And you could argue that Toph has every right to do it, or that Katara is right to be worried, just like Sokka used to worry about such things in Book 1...
But what we get is a stale dynamic that repeats the same problems we saw in Book 2, as well as Katara coming off as rather hypocritical because she, too, did dangerous shit and picked dangerous fights where she shouldn't have, and ignored everyone who told her not to do it: she gave Toph that kind of grief over things Katara was willing to do back when Toph wasn't in the group (see the pirates thing), and she will try to stop Toph from having fun on her own terms when nobody has ever tried to stop Katara from doing that in hers. Of course, any Katara advocate would read this and go "you're missing the point: Katara was sad and upset that she was being LEFT OUT! That's why she was so mad about this!" Then the irony of the matter is that this argument STILL reflects poorly on Katara. She gave her friend a tough time, called her a wild child and a crazy person, went through her personal belongings because "she could tell Toph was hiding something from her", so she fully disregarded Toph's privacy... all because she couldn't say "Wait, you guys went scamming Fire Nation people? Damn, why didn't you wait for me! I would've gone too!", and there you go, problem solved! Katara's not left out anymore!
Yes, of course, that's not how it WORKS, people can struggle to identify what they feel...!
... And now it's my turn to say that that's not the point.
The point is that Katara said and did hurtful things to her friend. Things she eventually regrets, yes, but that she didn't have to do at all. This is the same person who fed Appa a bunch of food that made it look like he was sick, all be it to keep the group from leaving the Jang Hui river village so she could go out of her way to heal the injured and sick without telling anyone what she was doing. That, too, was a choice she made with no concern regarding how the rest of her team might feel about it: was she doing something nice? Sure! But it's not fundamentally different from Toph doing whatever she wants with zero regard as to Katara's feelings on the matter. Katara KNEW she was stalling their journey and that Sokka wanted them to move on: she didn't care about his feelings or priorities, and the story eventually frames Katara as being in the right for feeling that way. Here, she's in the inverse scenario, only it's with Toph rather than Sokka, and instead of realizing that she, too, has made choices that were irresponsible/dangerous/risky and STILL went all out with them, down to fighting whoever opposed her choices? Katara just doubles down until she, again, breaches boundaries and overhears Toph and Sokka's conversation, WHICH IS ANOTHER CAN OF WORMS DUE TO THE SOUTHERN RAIDERS FOLLOW-UP...
The thing is, Katara as a mom friend is not even a good thing. It's not conducive to fun or interesting storytelling, not in Book 2, not now. It doesn't make Katara a more interesting and dynamic character. The way she's portrayed isn't so she looks tragic for taking this role, it's all about forcing these kids into tropes that don't necessarily add up to who they have been so far. Katara's mom friend status is NOT treated with any compassion. It's not handled as a sore, difficult subject outside of the ONE conversation Sokka has with Toph that Katara overhears. And it's not centered on Katara's tragedy, on how she overcompensates for her mother's absence, it's centered on Sokka accepting her as a motherly person and encouraging Toph to do the same thing. The people who saw further depth in it probably haven't looked at the script itself in a long time: you CAN see more to it, but that's not the point of the scene. That's not where it's going. And the fact that such a tragic situation is what conduces Katara to take up the mom friend role actively makes it look like... she shouldn't have it. Why would she be the mom friend if she's just overcompensating for Kya's death? If she's taking up responsibility by thinking that no one else will (a blatant lie because, again, in Book 1 there's NO SIGN of this behavior and it's Sokka who's in a role of responsibility compared to her), it suggests that EVERYONE ELSE ought to step up and stop "relying" (and Sokka very much uses that word) on Katara being the mom friend. It's not a healthy thing. It's a coping mechanism that seems to be actively damaging Katara: and the story doesn't acknowledge it that way.
So... "mom friend Katara", dialed up to a thousand in Book 3, absolutely has a connection with why her character loses its sheen by this point in the story. There's no attempt to deconstruct this coping mechanism by Katara. No indication from the rest of the team that maybe Katara should get to be a kid just like them and stop being so uptight (even though VERY often she's not that uptight but the show very much tries to pretend she is). It's Katara's initiative to do a scam, it's not Toph or Sokka or Aang who think she needs to join in on the fun, she basically inserts herself in it. So basically, those three take the route of saying "that's what she's like, we just gotta bear with it", instead of actually helping her. If we'd seen that? Mom friend Katara would actually be a fun element to witness deconstructed by the story. And I'm not blaming either Katara or the other three for this:
This is EMINENTLY a writing problem.
Mom friend Katara is not a good trope. It could be if the point was to help her break free from it. It's not. It's simply weak writing that can't handle two girls with proactive, aggressive personalities and a ton of agency, a lack of creativity in realizing how much potential there could be in making Toph and Katara the absolute best of friends. It's seriously a disservice to the two of them that this trope literally blooms over Toph joining the show and then NEVER gets resolved or chased away. And when you have characters like Sokka or Aang kind of joining the bandwagon of "yeah, Katara's a mom!" when the two of them traveled with her in Book 1 and she WASN'T that at all? It makes matters infinitely worse.
So, if you ask me? This is the first thing that makes Katara feel more unpleasant than ever before in Book 3.
The second thing is even worse.
We return to accountability, as well as to illogical flow of thought when it comes to the writing of Katara: in Book 1, we see a hopeful girl who never speaks ill of her father or betrays any manner of displeasure or distrust towards him. No sign of her being conflicted by what Hakoda is doing: the focus is entirely on Sokka's feelings on the matter once it finally comes up in Bato of the Water Tribe, and Katara is a secondary matter, if even that.
This would be fine if Hakoda hadn't come up at all as a subject throughout Books 1 and 2. If Katara had never had the potential opportunity to see her father in any of these instances and had backed out from them for bigger reasons than... plot reasons.
For reference: she's excited, just as Sokka is, when Bato says he can bring the kids to meet their dad again. They're HYPED. We see no sign of Katara being upset at Hakoda for leaving at this point. The only portrayed reason why she and Sokka decide not to go see Hakoda is because they think Aang needs them more and they decide to forgive him for hiding the map. Katara, from the get-go, is not as angry at Aang for hiding the map as Sokka is. Clearly, Sokka wants to see Hakoda far more intensely than Katara does: even so, there's no sign anywhere here that implies that Katara harbors resentment or dissatisfaction towards Hakoda.
Book 2 gives us a similar situation: Katara declines going to see Hakoda and offers to be the one who stays in Ba Sing Se so Sokka can go see Hakoda himself. Sokka is soooo thrilled and thanks her and calls her the best sister ever and Katara very much says she is, indeed, the best. Which she's allowed to, worth noting, I'm not saying her reaction to Sokka's praises was bad, it's actually funny: but what I AM saying is that she knows how much this matters to Sokka and that's why she makes the offer she does. It's also VERY convenient! Because logic dictates that, if Sokka stays behind, he realizes the Kyoshi Warriors aren't themselves far faster than Katara does (even though, to be fair, Katara didn't really have much time to realize it at all), and we wouldn't have Aang suffering over Katara's imprisonment because the one in chains would be Sokka and then Aang might just go "oh okay it's just Sokka, I can go cosmic if it's not Katara"
... yeah I'm being sarcastic I actually don't think Aang wouldn't have saved Sokka, but they very clearly had Katara stay behind first and foremost for this specific purpose...
But Katara's acknowledgement that this is a good thing for her brother makes you REALLY wonder how much of a secret grudge she was supposed to feel towards her father at this stage of the story. The truth, in my opinion? She wasn't actually supposed to resent Hakoda as she did, let alone quite so harshly.
My sister personally told me that she thought Katara's anger at Hakoda was a fine storytelling choice when I told her I didn't like it. She told me Katara herself most likely didn't realize how hurt she had been by her father's leaving, that it wasn't until she was around Hakoda again that she understood she resented him at all, and that she had a lot more pent-up rage and frustrations than she had EVER acknowledged, and they burst out frequently in Book 3. Which, you know, is one possible explanation that tries to make this whole thing more palatable. From a human standpoint? This is valid.
... From a writing point? Not so much.
A Katara who struggles to understand her heart (which... is odd, tbh. As far as they portray her, Katara tends to know exactly what she's feeling, why she's feeling it, and she acts on her emotions rather than brains more often than not) would be portrayed as confused over her own rage at Hakoda. She would not have been written as a snappy teenager who hates her dad. She would have snapped at him and then apologized by reflex, unsure of what's come over her. We would see Sokka trying to mediate between them too, probably asking Katara what's her deal, and she would have no idea how to explain it. Katara would be avoiding Hakoda, knowing she loves him, not knowing why she seems to hate him now, afraid of saying things she shouldn't. Every time she snaps at him, she should worry about what she did, she should fear for Hakoda's feelings, she should reflect on what's going on inside her heart...!
... But that doesn't happen. And that knocks SO HARD on the concept of empath/compassionate Katara that it basically turns her into a whole different person.
As I've said countless times so far: it's not about Katara being perfect. I don't WANT her to be perfect. But I DO want the show to acknowledge that she's not. I want the flaws to REALLY read as flaws. I want other characters to react to those mishaps on Katara's part, and I want HER to reflect on what she's doing and realize she's messing up, just as she does when she hurts Aang's feelings in the Waterbending Scroll, which is most likely the best situation where Katara actually owns up to the exact mistake she made and feels genuine, palpable, obvious remorse for it. But when you feature Katara lashing out at Hakoda, and everyone just staying quiet because "uuuuh, awkwaaaard...", it feels off. Aang asks Katara, outright, what's her problem with her dad! And Katara goes "What? What problem?" She's acting like she's not even aware of the fact that her behavior is out of place, basically gaslighting Aang into pretending that she didn't do anything rude or mean to Hakoda. Aang literally saw it with his own eyes and is the ONLY person to bring it up.
To make matters worse? Katara has been with Hakoda for WEEKS. It's not like they just crossed paths two seconds before Aang opened his eyes. The implication is that she's been behaving like this, or her behavior has been deteriorating towards Hakoda with no one worrying about it or trying to make her reason with it. for that long. Sokka didn't do anything. Hakoda just took the teenage rants and left her alone because that's what she wants. And when the one person brings up that she's not acting like herself? Katara pretends nothing's wrong and acts like everything's fine and she's not acting any differently from herself. Whether she actually is just lying to Aang or ALSO lying to herself is a matter of debate... but what it suggests is she's unwilling to confront the gravity of her choices and how she can be hurting her father with them.
This is NOT to say that Katara has no right to be angry about Hakoda abandoning her in the Tribe. She has every right to be upset and feel forsaken. Their mother died, and Hakoda left with all the men of the tribe, and Sokka was left behind, tasked to protect everyone, and Katara apparently felt responsible for the whole village too: as valid as Hakoda's quest to fight in the war might be, it's not out of this world for Katara to harbor frustrations and resentment over what happened.
What IS out of this world, and particularly, not appropriate to her character, is that her way to convey those feelings was something she gave herself to, completely, only to reason with it once Aang was missing so that the episode would conflagrate her problems with Aang and Hakoda into the same thing.
This is basically a dark expansion of what we've seen in Katara's treatment of Sokka since Book 1: where it was typically "humorous" when she was a jerk to him and paid no price for it, this time it's not humorous. This time, you're supposed to see her being a jerk and then go "aaaaw, poor dear," even if you're not supposed to get mad at Hakoda because he is very much a decent dad. The show was trying to have its cake and eat it too with this situation, because Katara DOESN'T apologize to Hakoda for being unfair to him: HAKODA APOLOGIZES TO HER. Hakoda acknowledges the pain he caused Katara and the damage his leaving has wrought upon his children by apologizing and explaining how much he missed them... but Katara does not acknowledge the pain she inflicted on her father by acting out when he wasn't doing anything wrong. Is this teenager behavior? You could chalk it down to that, but that's precisely why teenagers can be a pain in the ass! And that's very much how Katara is being portrayed if she's unwilling to acknowledge she acted out and hurt someone she loves!
Her problems and resentment towards Hakoda magically go away after that single conversation. After this? She loves him. No hard feelings left. If her problems with Hakoda were this deep and difficult to navigate and work through, either she bottled them up in the rest of the show and stopped them from affecting her father... or she just got over it that quickly. Which would be very unrealistic because Hakoda apologizing for leaving doesn't change the damage Katara suffered through because he was gone. A single apology doesn't fix everything that people read into Katara's deep anguish in this scene and episode. And yet that's very much how the show portrays it: Katara is 100% fine in every single other interaction with Hakoda she gets past the first episode of Book 3. Does that make sense? Is that good writing? No, actually: it's literally digging up a problem, making it up last minute with zero lead-up to it, where the ONLY way to read "lead-up" is to pretend that Katara always had ulterior motives to avoid going to see Hakoda, even though we NEVER were shown that she was hiding anything, something that could be VERY easily shown in the story if they'd always had this in mind. The truth is that they didn't. They made it up for this episode, forced it in there, didn't even write it right because nobody reacts to Katara's behavior reasonably except Aang, and she gets away with it without even having to apologize. That's... not good form for any character, let alone Miss Responsibility and Empathy, is it?
This is why it's such a problem that Katara acted as she did towards her father. It's not because this is an unthinkable flaw: it's because there's very much no lead-up to it, kind of like there's none with Korrasami's big reveal in LOK's finale. It's because there's no follow-up to it either. It's because we don't see Katara living up to her supposed core character traits, where she should have a realization that her choices and actions and behavior have hurt someone else, someone she cares about. None of that happens.
And I will say: it's different when it comes to her clashes with Zuko and her reactions to him in the second half of Book 3. This is basically the MAIN thing the fandom gives her grief for and I hate them for it: she has every right and reason and justification to show no empathy or compassion towards a person who, as far as she could tell, took advantage of her compassion in Ba Sing Se, of Aang's compassion frequently across Book 1, and paid them back for all of it by joining forces with Azula and showing no concern to help Aang when Azula almost killed him. I am no fan of Iroh's... but Iroh jumped in to help Katara and Aang escape, at risk of being captured. Zuko stood beside Azula and did NOTHING to help those two leave. He showed zero concern for Aang's survival. He saw his sister potentially murder someone and had ZERO REACTION. So, no offense but full offense: Katara's unwillingness to trust Zuko is JUSTIFIED. Not only is it justified? It's CORRECT. It's the only writing choice that makes sense. Sokka getting over it relatively quickly feels off to me, no matter if the Boiling Rock adventure isn't as bad as others might be. Aang not holding a grudge for too long kind of fits because it is Aang... but Katara being that mad at Zuko? That's 100% fine. It fits. It works. And anyone pretending that what I said about Hakoda applies to how she treated Zuko is just completely biased in Zuko's favor.
Katara and Zuko do not have a secret magical powerful soulmates bond in canon. Their one instance of bonding comes after multiple instances of the exact opposite thing. Katara and Sokka were 100% down for leaving Zuko to freeze to death in the North Pole, and the ONLY reason why Zuko survives is because Aang can't let that happen to him. It's AANG'S compassion that saved Zuko. Katara felt none, AND SHE DIDN'T HAVE TO FEEL ANY. Let's not forget that!
Moving on to Book 2, Katara actually makes her first offer of kindness to Zuko and Iroh in the Chase when she offers to heal Iroh after Azula's attack. Zuko's reaction is to lash out violently and yell at her to leave: who, exactly, would feel inclined to think this poor beautiful sad boy just needs love when you OFFER HIM kindness and his reaction is, in a manner of speaking "go fuck yourself I'll handle this on my own"? And it's worth bringing it up because it feels like the fandom is hilariously misled into thinking the Gaang magically knows what Zuko is up to and how he's growing and evolving, as if they were part of the audience: they're not. The last time Katara saw Zuko before Ba Sing Se is literally when Zuko refuses her help. We're also talking about Fire Nation people: Katara has every right and every reason to believe that Zuko is refusing her help, not out of personal, internal strife he's dealing with and has no idea how to handle... she very much can read this as "inferior Water Tribe peasant, you will not heal my uncle with your wretched waterbending!" Because... let's be real, that's what Zuko looked like to Katara across Book 1. She has no real reason to think he's any better or different from that until their catacombs scene...
... And he stabs her in the back and joins Azula there. Right after "bonding" with her.
So let's be VERY clear on that respect: Katara has no real reason to forgive Zuko. She has no real reason to feel empathy outside of the show constantly trying to push that she's kind and compassionate with no boundaries, even if she forsakes that kindness and compassion at random whenever the plot requires it. But her death threats to Zuko? They're completely fine by me. I'd be pissed if she had acted any differently, and if anything I hate how easy Zuko had it to befriend everyone but Katara.
... Not to say I'm happy with how he befriended Katara either, but anyway...
As this isn't Zuko meta, we're not going to get into the true core glaring issues in The Southern Raiders, because ultimately, that episode paints Zuko in a disgusting light that his fans are constantly gaslighting themselves about. He was not beinga heroic good dude helping someone he connected profoundly with. His behavior leaves so much to be desired and proves he hasn't unlearned a lot of toxic things he had internalized. He didn't unlearn them in this episode, either. But the GREATEST sin Zuko commits in this episode, without a doubt, is bringing Katara on a journey that ultimately did NOTHING for her. The only person benefitting from it was Zuko himself. I've seen people pretend that Katara finally found closure: she did not do such thing. She learned what kind of scum killed her mother, but she did not forgive him nor did she kill him. Closure would mean peace. Katara did not find peace with the situation. She's shown troubled, sitting at that pier, miserable, when Aang talks with her, she's STILL angry. That's not closure. It never was.
What it was, however, was the journey where Katara thanked Zuko and forgave him because..! Uh... because...
... Why, exactly, did Katara forgive Zuko here?
He brought her to her mother's killer: she found no closure from it. In fact, she learned the VERY disturbing truth that she hadn't realized so far: HER MOTHER DIED SPECIFICALLY TO SAVE HER. Her mother sacrificed herself for Katara's sake. She CANNOT find peace with this reality in a single afternoon because holy shit, who would? Katara KNEW her mother had died. It's not until Yon Rha tells her what happened that she understands what happened in the igloo. Katara herself, her waterbending skills, and the target she painted on her own back because of something 100% out of her control, something that is NOT evil and that the Fire Nation was hellbent on destroying, are the reasons why Kya was murdered. This is DISTURBING SHIT to deal with. And the show completely sidelines this revelation and the dark impact it could have on Katara, which, seriously, is HUGE, way worse than what happened with Hakoda, because it very much could have triggered a profound self-hatred by Katara towards her own skills because how tf could her bending cause her mother's death?! Not to mention the obvious: who was that source? Who told the Southern Raiders that there was a waterbender? Who the hell is responsible, beyond the Fire Nation, for her mother's death?
There's A LOT to unpack here.
And none of it matters because Katara is just supposed to forgive Zuko for exacerbating and worsening her trauma regarding her mother's death :') funny how that works.
This IS the point where Katara should make a display of darker sides of herself that she didn't know or understand. THIS is where Katara turning dark like Aang did after Appa vanished would make PERFECT sense. With this revelation about Kya that's beyond disturbing: not with Hakoda... and certainly not with Sokka.
The cusp of Katara's worst is, by far, her behavior with her brother in the Southern Raiders. I know a million excuses have been made for this moment: my problem is NOT the fact that she lashed out at him as she did and said something DEEPLY hurtful. It's the fact that KNOWING, SEEING HE'S IN PAIN...
... does not matter to her one bit.
Instead of a trite scene with Zuko spouting shit he does NOT mean (aka "violence wasn't the answer... but lol go kill my father okay??"), we deserved a scene with Katara and Sokka talking this out. People pretend it's fine as it is: it's not. Katara has spent the ENTIRE show disregarding her brother's feelings in a myriad of ways: this time, it was way more painful and way more hurtful and SHE KNOWS IT. It's not funny. She's not amused. She's not being a shithead little sister. She's ANGRY. She's UPSET. She has every right to be! What she DOESN'T have a right to do is hurt her brother DELIBERATELY and then escape every consequence from doing that.
There's very much no way to spin that moment into making Katara a decent sister. There's no way she remains true to her core values of being empathetic, kind and wholesome when she will insidiously, vindictively hurt her brother this way. And what I said earlier about her overhearing Toph and Sokka in the Runaway? It actually gets a follow-up in this scene: Katara telling Sokka that he didn't love Kya as she did is basically her WEAPONIZING the information that was NOT meant for her as her alleged evidence that Sokka didn't care about Kya as much as she did. As if his inability to retrieve Kya's memory was NOT a manifestation of trauma, as if it were something he's FINE with! He's not! How guilty must he feel for that? Does that matter to Katara at all? Why... nope. Because all that matters at that point is her own rage, her own feelings, her own fury. Which is, then, entirely against the character we've been told she is.
The lack of apology or follow-up to this horrible moment will never stop being one of the absolute biggest misfires in one of the WORST written episodes of this show. Yes, I said it. The more I ponder The Southern Raiders, the more I realize it's an immensely flawed speedrun to establish a friendship that simply doesn't add up. Katara and Zuko becoming friends after this journey requires some wild, absurd leaps of imagination that, boiled down to basics, don't make any sense. There's no reason for Katara to decide she'll forgive Zuko after she regains enough clarity. Why does she forgive him? Because he proved he'd rather make her happy than defend his nation anymore? Ironically, at no point does Katara show any appreciation of the fact that Zuko is setting aside his firebending supremacist attitude completely for her sake. So maybe that's not it.
Ah... is it because of how he, and he alone, was ready to help her go on this journey of revenge...?! Why, ironically, the only reason why ONLY Zuko goes on this journey is incredibly artificial and fake: this IS intended as Katara's "field trip" with Zuko. None of the field trips make sense, from a logical standpoint, as duo journeys. I've mentioned it to a few people: Sokka and Zuko could have brought Toph with them to the Boiling Rock, a metal location where her abilities would be VERY useful, used her as a false prisoner and turned her in as a captured ally of the Avatar's, who 100% will bait him into coming here to rescue her so that the Fire Nation can get him next! A cover as strong as that one might actually get them further along on that rescue attempt than what they did in canon. But this CANNOT BE... because it was Sokka's field trip with Zuko so nobody else is invited, even if they're very much not doing anything else (as is the case with Toph). Aang? Why didn't everyone join the firebending discovery with Zuko and Aang? They weren't doing ANYTHING in the Western Air Temple at the time. They very much could have gone with them too. But they don't. And that's exactly why Katara's trip works exactly as it does: it's the solo journey with Katara and Zuko, and the ONLY way to make it work is to show Sokka and Aang completely opposed to the concept of finding Yon Rha. I'm not saying I think Sokka and Aang would have been on board if they're allowed to remain IC... but they could have wanted to go on this trip with Katara regardless of not agreeing with what she wanted to do. Hell, as is OBVIOUS: Kya is Sokka's mom too. His opinions, his feelings on this subject, should matter just as much as Katara's do, and fuck anyone who pretends otherwise. These two are NOT supposed to be the well-known unhealthy siblings Zuko and Azula, who each got one parent in their corner and therefore the other parent treated them like they were worthless or a monster. Hakoda and Kya were parents to BOTH their children, and any narrative or interpretation that attempts to say that ONLY Katara's opinion on Kya matters is immediately ruled out, for me, as absolute bullshit spouted by someone not worth listening to. Point blank.
Also, the fact that Zuko USES Sokka to gain this information about the southern raiders, and then doesn't even extend the chance to Sokka to join them? When Sokka is basically his new best buddy? That... does not make sense. It basically portrays Zuko as a disloyal asshole who takes advantage of his friends for his purposes and tosses them aside, disregarding their feelings whenever it suits him.
So Sokka's treatment at the hands of this episode is just deplorable. Both Zuko and Katara are HORRIBLE to him... but Katara is our focus here, she's actively hurts Sokka and then proceeds to not care. Because that's how she has operated so far, and that's how she always will.
Hence: we have a long, long tradition of Katara not treating Sokka fairly all across the show. The reasons why it's not a fair or balanced relationship at all is because Sokka typically pays the price for being a dick to Katara: either she inflicts the punishment herself, such as when he's disrespectful in the Drill and she smacks him with the slurry, or the narrative inflicts some magical punishment instead that CONSTANTLY proves that Sokka is not allowed to be a dick without facing consequences for it. Does he ALWAYS learn the lesson? Sure he doesn't! But the consequences for it NEVER stop. He doesn't get away with being a jerk to his sister. That's forbidden. But Katara? She's allowed to get away with it every single time! And the reason why it gets worse and worse is because we went from relatively silly/comedic things, in which Katara did not apologize because "it's funny that she didn't apologize", to NOT funny things at all, such as this scene in Southern Raiders. Even just a troubled glance at Sokka, or a slight hesitation after seeing how hurt he is, would be enough for me: there's NOTHING. She doubles down and keeps charging ahead. Zero thoughts or concerns given to her brother.
If this isn't why you have issues with Katara, well, I don't know why it might be the case in your case x'D But I absolutely attest that the combination of "mom friend", "selective compassion particularly when it comes to her brother" and "absolute imperviousness to consequences for her mistakes" are the things that fully caused my initial appreciation of her character to shift into ambivalence and then into full blown dislike once I reached Book 3.
Worth noting: THIS IS A COMPLAINT ABOUT THE SHOW'S WRITING. Boiled down to basics, written by any more competent hands, I don't think Katara would have acted the way she did often, ESPECIALLY in episodes like The Awakening or The Southern Raiders. I categorically refuse to write Katara in my stories as someone who gets free passes for EVERYTHING she does. I also refuse to portray her as the mom friend, particularly in Gladiator. There's a lot of depth you can give this character! So much you can do, so much worth exploring... and canon just settled for stunting her and then only bringing her out to play in ways that make her unpleasant, not particularly bright and extremely resistant to character development even after allegedly learning lessons (see how her initial behavior around Hama, who shows red flags often, isn't all that different from how it was with Jet? There's only a handful of moments where it looks like Katara MIGHT be wary, and yet they're quickly overcome by her excitement, which Hama manipulates in her favor until she does the bloodbending reveal). So I'm NOT saying Katara had no potential... but I am saying the show itself failed her, big time, because of how she was written. A quick glance through the transcript of the Puppetmaster to confirm my memories that Katara shows no sign of concern over Hama when Sokka finds her suspicious reveals that, after Hama shows them her comb and that she's from the Southern Water Tribe, Sokka, and Sokka alone, apologizes for suspecting her of being sketchy. Nothing from Aang, even though he was part of it too. Nothing from Toph, either. And certainly nothing from Katara. Only Sokka apologizes. As usual.
So... what does this tell you? What does this tell any of us? That Katara's development is... erratic, at best. That it's not linear isn't a bad thing, but that it contradicts itself non-stop, that her core traits come and go willy-nilly as the plot demands it, that her motivations to do things (like forgiving Zuko) don't add up to her experiences or to any lead-up we've witnessed, is most certainly not good.
If I were to rewrite ATLA, the main characters I'd want to rewrite into making a lot more sense than they do, and making their arcs actually logical, are Zuko and Katara. I'd definitely add a few rewrites for Iroh, particularly to make him WAY more accountable for shit than he ever was, and to show he's not universally loved and shouldn't be, since people would have very reasonable grievances with him. I'd also rewrite a handful of things with Aang, too. Toph, full-stop, deserves a growth arc of her own beyond getting stronger and getting used to having friends. Girl has the range. They just never let her explore it. And of course, I'd change a fair few elements of Azula's writing as well. But I feel like no characters would warrant a deeper intervention than Zuko and Katara, precisely because they constantly fail to live up to all the stuff people keep pretending they're flawless exhibits of.
And this is one more issue we've got going on with Katara:
The fandom ABSOLUTELY has been unfair to Katara. A lot of people hate her for no reason. A lot of people who potentially have unexamined racism making their hearts' choices for them and they despise her just because she dared not have fully-white skin. A lot of people pick completely ridiculous things to get angry at her, such as people who HATE HER because she's "rude to Zuko". Just, fuck off. That's about the stupidest reason to hate this character and stupid reasons for that have been heard plenty.
But Katara's fans have become... reactionary. They appear think that any criticism to her character NEEDS to be fought off with "she was right tho" or "she has every reason to act this way" or "she's HUMAN she's allowed to make mistakes you heathen!! That's what a flawed character is like!"
Here's the kicker, though: if you have justifications and excuses for every little unpleasant thing Katara EVER does? You're basically taking a dump on her character yourself and saying she IS flawless.
Flaws in characters are bad things that cannot be justified. They can be funny! They can be annoying. They can be infuriating. But they're things that inconvenience other characters, that hurt them, that show they're not above or beyond doing harmful things! All of what I listed in this crazy long post are Katara's flaws. The reason why I don't like the way these flaws were handled are all the things I already have talked about: no accountability for flaws is basically saying that these flaws don't matter. No follow-up, no lead-up, means Katara is allowed to be as much of an ass as she wants to be and nobody cares: THIS IS NOT FAIR. This is not how ANY character should be written. This is the core reason why I've spent years feuding with Zuko and Iroh: they get away with shit they should NOT get away with, EVER. They're not held accountable for so much they should be. This happens to Katara too. particularly in her dynamcis with her brother. And when people see those flaws and just start listing reasons why it's actually okay? All you're doing is dehumanizing these characters to pretend everything they EVER do is fine.
Also worth noting... character flaws are the way characters grow. If a character is DEEPLY flawed, you know what kind of work you have cut out for you as a writer. If you're writing a story heavily steeped on character development? Then those flaws are VITAL to the work you have to do in order to develop these characters!
But when Zuko is unnecessarily violent and you're told "it's because his culture and family are!", you rightfully assume that as he drifts away from Fire Nation ideology, Zuko WILL grow less violent. Then, you watch how he picks an unnecessary fight with Aang in the finale because everyone's being lazy, an EXTREMELY violent fight at that, and you contrast his earlier behavior with it and... where's the difference, exactly? How did he grow or learn better if violence is STILL his immediate reaction to anything he doesn't like?
Thus, when Katara's flaws get overlooked, ignored, disregarded? What kind of development does Katara get, if none of her flaws are addressed in a way that makes it look like she's genuinely learned any lessons? At least, none of the worst, biggest, glaring flaws were addressed. None of the things that she SHOULD be troubled by and that she shouldn't be happy with herself over, especially after seeing how she hurts people with her actions. This isn't cool. This isn't a fun way to write a character. And it's so glaringly unpleasant when you can so very easily contrast this with the well-known terrible flaw Sokka displays early on: sexism! And then he gets his ass kicked by Suki and he learns to respect the Kyoshi Warriors... and we never see him displaying that particular flaw again. THAT is what growth looks like! What can we point to with Katara that remotely compares to this? That she accepted Zuko? Yeah, no, that sincerely could not count any less. Her personal arc CANNOT be about Zuko. That she got over her mom's death? She didn't. So that's not it either. That she helped Aang save the world? So her personal arc was about Aang and not herself? Was her whole role in the story to play Aang's cheerleader, then? Because if that's it... she was doing that just fine at it since day one. She's the only person who faithfully believed the Avatar would return well before Aang turned up in her life, if the first episode's introduction is to be believed.
So... what, exactly, was Katara's arc? If it's just her waterbending skills, then she's as stunted as Toph, unexplored and underdeveloped and left to just strengthen her fighting skills while Aang and Zuko and Sokka are getting full character arcs, even if very lowkey but very much effective in Sokka's case, where they develop and grow (or they should) into the men they're supposed to be to end the war! Why don't Katara and Toph get similar arcs? Why aren't they challenged on a level that actually provides them with lasting, solid, provable growth, where you can look at them where they started out and see how they ended up and conclude their journey was beautiful?
I insist... writing. Weak writing. Failures to understand/develop characters properly. And of course, lack of accountability in storytelling. I wrote that one focusing mostly on Zuko... but it's very much applicable to every character who fails to own up to the things they should and deserve to face consequences for.
Anyway... this is what I'd say about Katara atm. I'm not 100% sure this is everything because I might have overlooked some stuff that also made Katara's character kind of backfire (while I'm no Kataang hater, I 100% agree that the ship should have been written better too, and after writing them whenever I have, it's honestly kind of ridiculous how such an easy ship could get fucked over so badly by weird writing choices...). Whether you agree with these assessments or not, ultimately, there are valid reasons to feel offput by Katara and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Most of all when you DID appreciate and cherish the character once before, but her fans just jump to the conclusion that you must be a mindless hater to think she's anything but flawless (this, while claiming they love that she's flawed, then they proceed to reveal they have no idea what a flaw is...).
(final note: SORRY IT TOOK ME FOREVER TO ANSWER! Super lengthy answer to make up for it, I hope :((( sorry)
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dangaer · 2 years
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i think one of my favourite dynamics is simply the despite. i will love you despite what you may show me, i will love you despite who agrees. i will be there for you despite how much you think you don’t deserve it. there’s something so interesting in the dynamics that follow even the following: i will hate you despite how much you have done to every one else, i will be mad despite how amiable you’ve become. i will trust in my grief despite the way you wish i’d just let go. 
we have a lot riding on the what if’s and almost, but the relationships starting out following certain consequences are also important to me too
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wardenparker · 2 months
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CONGRATS on 2.5k!! You deserve every follow! ❤️ For the co-writer (along with @absurdthirst) of the Whiskey fic that made brain go BRRRRR and got me into reading/writing our fave corndog, how about our Agent with the prompts: "Should we make it official?" and/or "Put me down!" Have fun!
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Agent Jack 'Whiskey' Daniels. 2,300 words. "Put me down!"/"Should we make it official?" (Sequel to: "Wait! Please don't go!"/"There is no 'us'." ) Co-written with @absurdthirst
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When Jack hits the door, heads turn. The sharp, confident gait of a man on a mission who will not be stopped just shimmers in the air around him. Eyes sharp and narrowed, they scan the floor, looking for someone. For you.
“Can I help you, sir?” It’s the weekend, so a greeter is stationed at the door of the upscale retail store, to help direct customers through the maze of shelves and displays. It is the middle of the city so there are plenty of different kinds who come in every day, but this is definitely the first cowboy that’s ever set foot inside the Lexington Avenue Sephora.
Jack says your name and throws the woman a charming grin. “She’s helped me before so I’m hoping to see her again.” He lies, knowing that you won’t talk to him otherwise.
"Sure! Of course." The new girl smiles warmly, blushing a little as she's easily taken in by the charm that drips off of Jack like dew drops. "She's in fragrances today. All the way at the back of the store."
“Thank you kindly.” He tips his hat like a gentleman and starts for the back of the store. The past two weeks have been miserable. He’s drank, he’s raged, he’s blamed you for expecting too much. Then, when you rejected the bouquet of flowers he had sent to your parent’s house after misusing Statesman resources to find where you were, he had come to a hard truth. He had done you wrong. He hadn’t spoken from heart, not made himself uncomfortable for the sake of growth. Holding onto the fear of losing you if he loved you had caused him to lose you. And no surprise, he had loved you, because he is miserable without your voice in his ear, your fragrance on his sheets and your love in his heart. Now, he’s here to get you back.
You're there in the last aisle, helping a young lady find a specific gift she came looking for, in the uniform dress that you hate but tolerate for the sake of your new job. It doesn't pay well enough and it doesn't distract you enough to dull the constant aching hurt inside you after having walked out of Jack's place, but that's why you had started it the second after arriving back at your parents' place. To try to forget him. It isn't working. Not at all.
"I'll be right wit—" The figure looming a few feet away was only a shadow. It's the second you look up that your mouth runs dry and you feel sick to your stomach all over again. "I'm not sure I can help you, sir," you manage, hating the way your heart wings with so much hope. Hope that he wouldn't be here unless he had come for a good goddamn reason. But you have to stay strong. "You might want to try elsewhere."
“But sugar—” Jack drawls, grinning in pure relief at seeing your pretty face again somewhere else than in his dreams or the photos that haunt his walls. “You’re the only one who can help me.”
“Then you’ll have to wait.” Jack’s appearance has thrown you off completely, but you manage to finish up with your customer and take a deep breath — even hide your shaking hands behind your back — before you look at him again. “You came to my work?” Your voice is incredulous. Quiet. “It had better because you’re out of cologne.”
“You blocked my number and your daddy— well, I didn’t think you’d want there to be a brawl on your parent’s front lawn.” He huffs, annoyed that the old man had waved a hammer at him. He knows he could disarm him, but that would make you even madder at him.
“Ginger helped you find me?” You guess with disappointment. But Ginger is his friend. You can’t blame her for being on his side. “I left Jack. And I did it on purpose. Hell, we didn’t even have enough of a relationship to call it a breakup.”
“We had a relationship.” Jack snorts. “We have one still, this ain’t over, sugar.” He promises, “Not by a long shot.”
"We can't do this here." If he wants to have it out all over again, the least he can do is pay you the courtesy of not getting you in trouble at work. This is definitely going to get you in trouble. "I'm not going to lose my job because you can't take no for an answer."
“I love you, sugar.” Jack breaths out, finally saying the words he’s needed to for a long time. The words you deserve.
If there had been anything in your hands, you would have dropped it immediately. As it is, you feel like crumbling – falling down on the spot or running to him – something utterly undignified that would definitely get you written up at minimum. Your eyes mist and your shaking hands tangle around each other, but you can't break down on the sales floor. And beyond that? As much as you want to believe him, to let the anger and the heartache drip away so you can just go home to him where you want to be? It seems completely unbelievable to you that you walking out his door was somehow the magic tonic he needed to learn those damn words.
"My manager is watching," you murmur to him, glancing past him to the petite ice queen several yard away who has zeroed in on an employee not forcing product on every single person in the store. "We can't—it's not—you have to go, Jack."
“I’m not leaving.” He frowns, tossing the overly made-up manager a single look before focusing on you. “Did you not hear what I said?” He asks. “I love you, sugar. I need you.”
"I heard you." The water pressing at the back of your eyes is proof of that, and the way your voice cracks, but you can feel your manager's eyes drilling into your face and that gaze is angry. "I heard you. And we will talk about this, but I can't afford to lose this job and that might happen if you don't go."
“You don’t need this job.” Jack reminds you. You hadn’t had it when you left, so it’s not like you’ve been here for years.
"I have bills to pay," you remind him, rolling that tick in your jaw backward a little and swallowing the bitter pill that you decided to take all on your own. The undefined thing you had going with Jack had come with a big allowance, but it wasn't a sugar situation. That would have at least been a title. "Therefore, I need to keep my job. And the girl who just got hired can get sent out the door just as easily."
“You don’t need to worry about that.” He shakes his head and reaches for your hand. “Come on, sugar.”
“Why, Jack?” You have to keep your voice down as you snatch your hand back, but it’s still a hiss. “So I can be your stay-at-home friend-with-benefits again?”
Jack has many, many faults and one of them is impatience. His jaw clenches and he knows that he needs to get you alone to talk to you, others starting to warily gaze your way. Instead of answering you, Jack drops his shoulder and scoops you up like it’s nothing.
“Oh my fucking god, Jack!” The screech it earns from you is nearly instant, knowing that you have absolutely just lost your job over his stunt and not really knowing what in the hell he plans to do now. “Put me down! Right now!” He’s stronger than you and you don’t stand a chance of wriggling free in the dress you’re wearing. It will be up over your head if you even try.
“Nope.” His gait is just as determined as he passes by your manager, her jaw on the floor. “She quits.” He tells her and continues on to the door and outside.
“JACK!” Your shit is still in your locker and that’s going to be a black mark on your resume, but right now all you can do is beat your fists on his back and shoulder in protest. “What the hell are you doing? Put me down!”
By his Bronco, Jack finally relents, bending down and setting you on your feet. “Now, we can talk.”
Huffing and puffing like you’re about to summon a personal tornado, you don’t even hear him for all the blood pounding in your ears. “What the fuck was that?! Do you know how embarrassed I’m going to be when I have to go back in there and get my purse?”
“It’ll be the last time you go in there.” He predicts and he smirks at you. “And you’ll be flustered too badly to even think about what those crusted old biddies think.”
It’s a reasonable threat, considering how good he is at flustering you. The whole reason you’ve been so upset is because you do love Jack and you wanted this to work out. But standing out there on the street pressed between him and his Bronco? You feel like you’re about to be sold a familiar looking head of cattle after your own just happened to go missing.
“So what’s the play here?” You work very hard to keep your tone skeptical. “You tell me how much you need me so that I’ll come back to you and then nothing really changes? As usual?” He did say the words, but you’re so scared to believe them. To believe him. There’s a chance he doesn’t mean it and that terrifies you.
His eyes narrow, aware that he deserves that little barb but he shakes his head. “No. That’s not what’s going to happen, baby girl.” He huffs. “You are going to go get your purse and then I’m taking you home, where you belong. And I’m going to make you scream my name before you fall asleep on my chest as we plan.”
That all sounds…ridiculously good, actually. It would be a relief to go back to him. To not have to miss him anymore and feel like your heart has been split in two. But all you do is raise one eyebrow in a show of disbelief. “Plan what, exactly?”
“You’re marrying me sugar, today, tomorrow, or the next day.” He growls, smashing his lips against yours and moaning in relief when you melt against him. Pulling away to caress your cheek. “What do you say, baby girl? Should we make it official?”
“Do you…really mean it?” Months of telling him that you wanted to know where you stood with him — wanted commitment from him — only to be sidelined or waylaid or otherwise put off for just a little while longer, they all melt away in the face of the biggest offer of commitment he could possibly make.
“Gotta ring in my pocket.” He confesses, leaning in and brushing your nose with his. “Sugar, I’ve been such a damn fool.” He murmurs. “I thought I could avoid losing you if I didn’t admit I love you. And I just hurt you, something I never wanted to do.”
“That doesn’t make a whole lot of sense cowboy.” It makes Jack Sense, which is not much at all, but still your arms twine around his waist right there on the sidewalk. “But I’m just gonna brush past how long it took you to show up at the party and embrace the fact you’re here at all. Because I didn’t want to leave. I miss the hell out of you.”
“I’m a damaged soul, sugar.” He admits softly. “But I want to be better, I want to give you everything.” He sighs and leans in to kiss you again. “Come home?”
“Everyone is damaged somehow, cowboy.” Melting measurably more with another press of his lips to yours, you lean into the solid wall of Jack’s body completely. “We just have to talk about things from now on, so we don’t get more damage along the way. Okay?”
“Whatever it takes, baby girl.” Jack promises, wrapping his arms around you and holding tight. “I’m never letting you go.”
You’ve cried so much these last few weeks, it’s almost startling to realize that the tears in your eyes now are happy ones. Ecstatic. Overjoyed at having your Jack back in your life, and for the right reasons. If you were separated by more than a few inches it would have been a lunge to kiss him again, but as it is you wrap up in him and hold on tight. “You really have that ring? Because I’m gonna flash it everywhere when I go back into that damn place to get my purse, and then you’re gonna take me home. Our home.”
“I sure do, baby girl.” He has to take one hand out from around you and it almost kills him, but he wants to prove how serious he is. Pulling a small black velvet box from his sports coat. “Tell me what you think. If you don’t like it, we can go pick out any ring you want.”
"How could I not like it?" It's from him and that's all that matters. But the second he pops the little velvet box open, the tears in your eyes spill over and your heart is in your throat. "Baby...it's...it's...I love it. I love you." It's beautiful, and it's real, and he means it.
Leaving was the hardest thing you ever had to do, but if it was the kick in the pants that you both needed to know that the love you have is real? Then it was worth a little ache.
______
Master Tags: @pixiedurango @chattychell @winter-fox-queen @lady-himbo @artsymaddie @princess76179 @paintballkid711 @missminkylove @pedrosbrat @ew-erin @sarahjkl82-blog @sharkbait77 @justanotherblonde23 @lv7867 @recklesswit @mylittlesenaar @f0rever15elf @gallowsjoker @steeevienicks @athalien @sherala007 @skvatnavle @thatpinkshirt @jaime1110 @girlimjusttryingtoreadfanfics @goodgriefitsawildworld @greeneyedblondie44 @littlemousedroid @harriedandharassed @churchill356 @ajathegreats-blog @haylzcyon   @beardsanddetectives @kirsteng42 @ladykatakuri @adancedivasmom @madiebear @tanzthompson @emilianamason @bigsdinger @xocalliexo @pedr0swh0r3 @avaleineandafryingpan @charlyrmv @avidreader73 @iceclaw101 @loveslide @elegantduckturtle @becsworld @julesonrecord @its-nebuleuse @itsrubberbisquit @mikeyswifie @guelyury @lizzie-cakes @for-a-longlongtime @vabeachazn @purplerain04 @weho2kcmo @madnessofadaydreamer
My Masterlist!
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kingdomoftyto · 10 months
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I've started and deleted three drafts now trying to get my thoughts into a coherent recommendation, but there's just so much.
Let's start with the basics: You should read the graphic novel if you're a fan of the original show. You just should. It's new content of your old faves, and I'm telling you now that the art and writing are great and that you should give it a shot based on that alone.
But as for exactly why I'm losing my mind over it this much...?
It... feels like watching the show. But a version of the show unafraid to explore its own worldbuilding. A version of the show where continuity and character growth matter. A version of the show without jokes written by people far too old to understand mid-2000s teens.
And it is actually, honest-to-goodness funny. I went in fully braced for a badly shoehorned "fruit loop" one-liner, and instead I got incredible deadpan asides like this:
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The art, too, manages to perfectly ride the line of looking enough like the original style to be convincing, but improving on the expressiveness of the characters' faces and actions to elevate it to something arguably better than the show:
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(Like, I'm being so serious when I say the fight scenes are among the best I have ever seen in comic form. I'm the kind of person who tends to go for anime over manga because the fights are harder for me to follow in little sequential snapshots, but I can tell exactly what's happening in these battles AND they still look super cinematic and cool.)
And the story. Man, the STORY.
I won't spoil any of the plot here, but it's... really good. A little winding and goofy toward the beginning, but once things get serious, it really grabs you and refuses to let go til it's done. (Much like the best episodes of the show! Funny how that works.) It has a satisfying conclusion, but it also leaves a massive door open to continue telling more stories in the setting.
And I want more stories in this universe. The threads being dangled here might be even more enticing than those left by the original show. There is potential here for an INCREDIBLE series of comics.
We just have to prove how badly we want it.
If you can't buy the book yourself right now (it's relatively cheap for a graphic novel--I think it was about $15 even with tax from my Barnes & Noble), then please at least let other fans know it exists (I wouldn't have had any idea if not for tumblr) and keep the hype going on social media. I'm stoked to see that DP is trending on tumblr, at least, and I hope the same is true elsewhere. It's a small thing, but it's something corporate decision-makers take note of.
Fingers crossed we get to see more someday. This is one series that deserves to come back from the dead.
But, whether or not we get that continuation: welcome back, Phandom. Congrats and happy release day. 💚
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cosmic-walkers · 1 year
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Another thing i hate about the hyporcitical misogyny in the game of thrones fandom and the hotd fandom, is fans who are supposedly 'feminist' actually cheering when women they dislike, or who aren't fandom faves literally face rape or something similiar as a 'punishment'.
There were already tons of people laughing at alicent when viserys was raping her and making jokes like 'she's never had an orgasm' 'she deserves every part of what viserys is doing to her' and it's like, wow way to make rape a punishment.
the same happened to sansa and cersei. the walk of shame was most certainly a form of sexual assault even if it wasn't explicitly stated and…so many fans just loved it. a lot of fans are like 'she gets what she deserves' and no--no she doesn't. a woman getting raped or assaulted or the equivalent isn't 'what she deserves'? that's humiliating. IDGAF if that was the point it's still wrong.
next, we have sansa who went through what she went through by ramsay and people are like 'finally, she's gonna be stronger now' but her rape should not have been a plot of character growth or punishment.
and now i see alicent antis saying stuff like 'alicunt deserves her own walk of shame' or 'i want alicent and helaena to be raped in the brothel' first of all, that's demented. second of all, helaena hasn't done anything to garner your hatred like that.
same with blood and cheese - tons of rhaenyra and team black stans are EXCITED to see jaehaera threatened to be raped? like they are 10000% excited for it and some want to see it happen. what is wrong with y'all?
the only time people actually care about the assaults women go through is if they are fandom favorites. which is really really bad and speaks to the lack of media literacy and comprehension for fans. this fandom's respect and appreciate for woman is literally only 'if she's a girl boss and can ride a dragon and be cool and intimidating them i love and support her but if she's not she deserves to be raped and abused'.
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cupcakeslushie · 1 year
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Really loving all this lore for your seperated!AU, it's probably my fave AU actively updating within the fandom rn! You've talked a little about the krang, but i more so want to know Donnie's reaction to finding out aliens are a thing. The Krang themselves have a strong focus on power/strength, so i'd assume that their existence/tech would be of great interest to him. Would he want to try and catch one to dissect, for science?
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@hotcrosscorgibuns So I’m changing things up a bit and Donnie will have the front seat when it comes to the Kraang! Mostly for those exact reasons you mentioned—their focus on power vs weakness really parallel his struggles growing up with Draxum. And since Leo’s arc in the movie will be pretty much taken care of by the time the Shredder is defeated, the movie plot will be vastly different in my AU (except for the time travel aspects)!
@lollobumy Leo and Raph will have their major character arcs in the final battle with Shredder and the movie plot will be more focused on Donnie and Mikey’s arcs. This means in regards Raph getting Kraangified we wont see that, and instead another brother will be, and it’ll be in a slightly different way but I wont say which brother it’ll be, or how the process will be different 🤐!
BUT Raph will still have his time to shine (be traumatized), and will sacrifice himself to save Leo, it’ll just come into play earlier and be different than the escape pods scene. Raph will even come out of the Shredder arc with some physical changes 🤐. And Leo will still have his arc of growth fulfilled, but since his personality is so different in the AU it’ll be less about him growing to become responsible and finding what his particular value is that he brings to the table, and more about him accepting his place in the family and that he deserves their love and support despite his bloody past.
Thank you anon for your concern about my water intake! I actually have a bottle right next to me that I’m working my way through! ❤️
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@buckybarnessparearm We will see the brother’s getting their own chance to protect Raph eventually! He cares for them so much, that they can be pretty over-protective themselves when he needs them to be! The smarter villains eventually learn to not go too hard on the big guy if they wanna make it out of the fight with their jaws unbroken lol.
Raph and Leo will be super close after the Shredder is defeated. And actually tho in the beginning, there may be that barrier stopping them from being close emotionally—in the field and dojo they fight and train seamlessly like they’ve been training together their whole lives. It’s just the emotional side that gives Mikey and Donnie a headache—and no matter what they do, they only ever seem to make things worse. The family is horrified at first to realize that Leo’s mind’s been so effected by magic, but at the same time it’s almost a relief that there’s an explanation as well.
@organisedchaosstuff Raph’s self worth and guilt is pretty bad. He tries to hide it, and he’s good at it for the most part, until it’ll blow over and cause everyone to realize how much he’d been struggling.
I’d say in both AUs they comfort each other the same ways, physical comfort in turtle piles, and words of reassurance and love—finding each other after a dispute, and talking things out—apologizing when necessary (in Sep!Leo’s case that’s quiet often, unfortunately). Also Mikey and Raph really try and push fun group activities like going out and playing basketball, or teaching Donnie and Leo how to skateboard. They all even decide to take Donnie to the natural history museum after hours just to see him go nuts.
Feral!Leo finds comfort in the familiar, so fav movies and his favorite old blanket go a long way in calming him down. He’s most calm when he has sights on everyone, and knows they’re all safe in the lair.
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troius · 5 months
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Mayuri of all people getting so much positive focus in the last arc is still baffling to me. I know he's the author's fave and lots of ppl like him bcs he's *quirky*, and i just don't get it at all. He's horrible and insulting towards Nemu and genuinely unpleasant, he //should// have gotten his commeuppance with the Quincies (ik Yhwach does't really care and Uryu let the affair go but still, dude is still a shinigami Mengele, he still tortured a bunch of quincies and brutalized Uryu's grandfather, and that NO quincy whatsoever came after him reeks of favouritism) and while yeah, he restored the stolen bankais, I don't get how his science gimmick personnality is supposed to be endearing enough to absolve him of the awful stuff he stoll does as a guy on the morally good side (Szayel was awful, what Mayuri did to him is still monstrous and far worse than a lot of villains have done), dude has so little growth. Uryu should have killed him or at least seriously wounded him, as retribution or as a means to prove his loyalty to Yhwach/Jugram, or *something* so Mayuri doesn't just get to /walk free/ and get served his narrative desserts. I genuinely thought Nemu's arc was going to learn how to free herself of him and gain autonomy and independence, and to see where it ends is really disappointing for her. She deserves so much better.
I think I'll have more to say on the Nemu side of things later, so I'll hold back on that for now.
But as concerns Mayuri, I mostly agree with you. My one point of difference would be to suggest that I don't think his personality is supposed to "absolve" him of his moral depravity-- the story has stayed pretty clear in painting him as a bad person, and I think you're supposed to hold that in your head at the same time as he's fighting for the (alleged) good guys. Done well, you could even see it tying into the moral ambiguity in the conflict that has been infrequently raised throughout the arc.
But where the story gets into trouble, I think, is in Mayuri's presentation. He's such a quirky and interesting character, and has so much of the author's soul in him, and the story just sort of coasts on that? It would be one thing his objectively entertaining presence were examined in the story as something that allowed him to abuse his power. But the critical eye just isn't there. And contrary to Carneades, I think we can know enough of virtue to know this isn't it.
And perhaps, in a work that is intended for the youth, it might not be the best idea to make a person so morally bankrupt the de facto protagonist of a battle.
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allisoooon · 1 year
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“Allison’s trauma doesn’t excuse—”
See, that’s where we’re running into a miscommunication.  You’re looking for an excuse.  I’m looking for a reason.  You have an idea that I don’t buy into—that in order to enjoy or appreciate a character, they have to be fully innocent.  If they did something bad, it has to be someone else’s fault or else they are dismissed.  I’m not looking at whether a character is innocent.  I’m looking at whether a character is engaging.  What makes a character engaging?  What makes us care about a character?  Internal conflict.
Without a character’s best battling their worst, they’re not very interesting.  Piling on traumatic backstory won’t do it.  Your fave is engaging not because of their pain or their virtues, but because of their flaws and how those flaws interact with their redeeming qualities.
And when I say “flaws,” I don’t mean it in an especially negative way.  I love gemstones.  Love them. I’m wearing an emerald right now. Thing is, it’s a pretty cheap emerald. No clarity whatsoever, but the color is pretty rich.  It has a lot of flaws.  Technically, these flaws are called inclusions because they are internal instead of external, and I like that term because it removes the negative connotation.  Inclusions are very expected in a stone like emerald, and I’d rather have a stone like this than one that’s flawless but indistinguishable from a million other stones.  I love going into those new agey “crystal” shops and just admiring everything there, finding stones that speak to me in much the same way as people shop for clothes or shoes.  No two of them are alike.
I’m not interested in analyzing a character with no depth, and flaws, or inclusions, are what give them depth and their natural beauty. Inclusions make us relate to them. Inclusions make us root for them to shine past them because if there’s hope for Allison, there’s hope for me.  If all you’re looking for is an excuse, you’re missing out on all that.
Don’t get me wrong—get the fuck away from toxic people.  Don’t stick with them just because they are hurting and you feel sorry for them. But in fiction, we’re free to explore these things in safety.  Engaging in fiction means engaging with characters who are deeply flawed.  Characters who don’t deserve redemption until they’ve earned it (which is the whole point of redemption anyway).  Characters who make more progress than is realistic to expect from the toxic people in your life.  That exploration of internal conflict and growth is why we get attached to characters and write fiction in the first place.  It’s what makes a great story.  It’s what makes a great character.
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pinkandpurple360 · 6 months
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Triggering material: Dangerous SA victim blaming rhetoric of the HBoss fandom that’s sending a dangerous message and hurts real people:
Pretend this isn’t about your ship or your faves, just listen objectively.
[character] guess who, of HBoss is not a victim of r*pe / SA by [character] because:
The guy doing it to him is an abuse victim himself
This is not an excuse.
The guy doing it is sad and crying. His mascara is flowing. He’s on anti depressants.
I’m sad you think that’s an excuse to SA someone regularly.
The guy doing it doesn’t mean it.
Still doing it.
The guy doing it is a queer man!
His victim is a queer man.
The guy doing it has repressed sexual urges he needs to let out, his wife and him didn’t have a good sex life and she’s a bitch. He makes him feel better.
Hell fucking no. Just no.
You’re playing into the stereotype of gay men being sexual predators.
You’re defending the sexual abuse of a queer male character. An abuser can be any orientation. How many lgbt+ victims are afraid to speak out on their SA by another lgbt+ person, in case they also fuel stereotypes, do you think?
The guy doing it is offering him something in return
He’s holding his job and entire livelihood over his head and knows he can be killed by him at any time.
The guy doing it doesn’t understand consent cause he’s very sheltered, he doesn’t mean it. He’s actually in love.
Id argue that he doesn’t understand love because he’s sheltered, he actually just thinks consent doesn’t really matter. And a victim shouldn’t worry about the abusers rationality.
He (the main character) is just a sex worker so he can’t be a victim of SA, you’re a prude who hates sex workers
He is not willingly a sex worker this is not his choice of work, he has no choice in the matter. And sex workers have higher rates of SA and r*pe than any other member of the population!!! Sex workers are human beings who get to say “no” who shouldn’t have to sleep with people who abuse them and who people they find repulsive. They should choose who they want to be with, on their terms. Sex workers do not have to be down for everything!!!
It’s kinky and meant to be dark
If it’s meant to be dark it should stay dark, and stop trying to make the SA a comedy and then into a sad romance. It also worryingly, correctly portrays something sex workers have to deal with, Johns imposing increasingly violent, damaging, possibly fatal kinks on them with each session, and coercing the person to go along with the elevating kinks out of their comfort zone because they know that they can’t really decline.
He’s the top, he’s tough and he’s masculine. He’s confident in his sexuality. He can’t be a victim of SA
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Girl. Go home. That is sick. This is the worst fucking one for me because when are we going to let the myth die that only effeminate or weak virginal people can be victims of SA
He deserves it because he’s hypersexual to other people too, and he stole from the guy and played with his heart.
Nobody. Deserves. S.A. No matter what. Scream. Also being objectified in this manner actually triggers an unnatural hypersexuality as a way to claim back a feeling of control over the situation. That is no excuse either, but it shows that SA only leads to more SA.
(Some micro-aggression about bisexual/Pansexual or polyamorous people or anyone who is promiscuous in general, being down for everything from everyone at all times)
Stop.
He’s a bad person too! He’s just as toxic!
Bad people don’t deserve SA. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE A GOOD PERSON TO BE A VICTIM OF ABUSE
The guy doing it thinks He likes that sort of thing.
He was told “Stop it.” In that same scene. He won’t stop.
He’s a grown man who can make his own decisions.
You can be any age or gender and be a victim of SA, his decisions have been taken away from him. That is not something to be ashamed of. Small decisions being available don’t downplay big decisions not. His abuser is a grown man too.
Ok, it is SA, they need to break it off, make character growth, and then they’ll get back together healthier. Redemption!
“He can change!!” “I went back to him Martha, he changed just for me!” Once you get SA’d by somebody, PLEASE NEVER GO BACK TO THEM. YOU DONT OWE THEM SHIT even if they’ve changed. The reward for you not being shitty anymore isnt the love of the person you abused.
He secretly wants it and enjoys it, he’s playing hard to get. He hates himself too much to admit he loves it and is afraid to let it develop into love…the guy doing it is the real victim here.
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Jesus fucking H Christ hopping on a pogo stick Batman go to gilded jail
I know this last one is probably what the writers are trying to do but that doesn’t make it any less fucking disgusting and vile.
Lust shouldn’t be about force. And there’s no going back once you have forced that.
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fyorina · 2 months
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(uh, this is rlly long im so sorry qwq)
OMG THAT LAST CHAPTER HAD ME FEELING SM CARINA U CANT DO THIS TO ME !!!! LITERALLY THE FIRST FEW PARAGRAPHS IN I HADTA WALK AROUND BC I WAS SO OVERWHELMED I LOVED IT SM !!! N THOSE LAST FEW LINES. DONTDOTHISTOME I S A W THE "BEAST AU COMPLIANT" TAG ON UU IM GONNA SOB MY EYES OUT DURING IT I JUST KNOW !!!
gonna leave some of my fave few lines n my thoughts abt them from this chapter (ok these arent all of em, bc if i put all of em it'd be the whole 50k words of this series SO ITS JUST THIS CHAPTER)
"because how could he possibly belong amongst people who are so unfailingly good that it makes his tainted heart stick out like a sore thumb?"
STOP NO DONT DO THIS TO MEEEEEE throughout the whole fic u perfectly captured his thought process n how he denies his own capacity for change n how he HAS changed from when he was 18 BUT THIS LINE MADE ME TEAR UPPPPPP
"He is so completely and irrevocably in love with you that Dazai doesn’t think he’ll ever be able to live in a world without you. The thought alone makes his skin crawl and his chest cave in."
self-explanatory
“Are you calling me ugly?” 
u gorgeous, gorgeous man ilysm yes you look like a rat but i'll swaddle u up in blankets n clean u up
the whole graveyard scene. DO YOU WANT ME TO CRY HELLO
“You were a kid, Osamu. You’re not some incarnate of evil for ending up where you did, you were failed by all of the adults in your life,”
ok nvm crying this hit me like a truck
"Humans cannot live without a heart, so if he’s to give you his, it’s only fair that you give him your own—though realistically, yours has already been his for a long time."
i feel like this mightve been ur fave line, but if it wasnt IT STILL IS MINE BC OH MY GODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD QWQ
ranpos lil rant was so funny he's literally me frfr
“Yeah… ha, look at us, in jail at the same time! Couple goals, huh?” 
i giggled
PLS READER INVITING EVERYONE JUST TO AVOID GETTING INTERROGATED UMMM RELATABLE LMFAO
these are just some of them BUT JUST IN GENERAL, UR WRITING IS JUST MAGICAL ITS EVERYTHING IVE EVER WANTED TO READ N I LOVELOVELOVEEEE THIS SERIES N ALL UR WORKS (n u /p) SM !!! I CANT WAIT FOR UNREAL UNEARTH, I JUST KNOW IT'LL BE AMAZING !!!
RED HOW MANY TIMES MUST I TELL YOU NOT TO APOLOGIZE I LITERALLY ADORE YOU IM GOING TO WEEP OMG
honestly the first scene of dazai’s pov was one of my favs to write because it pisses me off so much whenever he’s excluded from the ada panels in the manga fjsjdjsjjd so i NEEDED the opportunity to hit home that that is his FAMILY idc what asagiri says the ada is that boys family and he deserves it 🥹🤞
UGHHHHH STOP BECAUSE WHENEVER I WRITE CANONZAI ITS SO HARD TO KEEP ON THAT THIN LINE OF HIS INABILITY TO ACCEPT HIS OWN GROWTH WHILE ALSO HAVING HIM ACKNOWLEDGING ODA’S LAST WISH FOR HIM SO I REWROTE SO MANY OF HIS POVS SEVERAL TIMES BECAUSE I FELT LIKE I WASNT GRASPING IT ALL PROPERLY
the graveyard scene was one of the 3 scenes i started writing for 🥹 i literally was weeping when i finally got to it
AND ALSO THE YOU WERE A KID LINE UGHHHHHHHH BRO when i tell you that’s something that i literally want to scream at him and shake his shoulders like he was FOURTEEN WHEN MORI BROUGHT HIM IN AFTER HIS ATTEMPT !!!!! FOURTEEN !!!!! HE WAS A BABY IT MAKES ME SO SAD WHEN HE FRAMES HIMSELF AS SOME IRREDEEMABLE MONSTER WHEN HE ONLY TURNED OUT THE WAY HE DID BECAUSE HE HAD NO ADULTS IN HIS LIFE SETTING HIM ON THE RIGHT TRACK ugh im gonna weep again i will always be dazai’s #1 defender, i will fight him himself idc he was only a lil baby :’)
oh my god fun fact i actually almost deleted that line about the heart, i don’t even know why like i was rereading it right before i post and i second guessed myself because i was like ‘i don’t think it rlly flows’ but then i decided against removing it because i liked the line in general SO IM WEEPING AGAIB
bro ranpo needs a promotion for real the headaches this man must get because of people not listening to him 💀
HDOSJDJSJDJJD THE COUPLES GOAL LINE WHEN I TELL YOU I SNORTED WRITING IT HELPPPPP I WAS GIGGLING SO HARD
RED ILYSM IM BUNDLING YOU IN THE SOFTEST BLANKETS AND GIVING YOU A FOREHEAD KISS
i’m so excited for unreal unearth like honestly it’s my pride and joy, i’m so pleased with how my beast!dazai characterization has come out so far and i’m hoping everyone else is going to like it too 🥹 if not ill simply die HAHAH JK JK JK no but really i’m so very excited for it
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acourtofantumbra · 9 months
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🚨 Ok, I've got something to SAY about lightsingers!!! 🚨
I know the "are lightsingers evil?"... or even just an easter egg... debate has sent this fandom into a tizzy a few times over. We're not on the ship controversy (pun intended), we're on the SS Earnest & Nerdy Close Reader.
My fave part of my TOG/Complete SJMU reread has been zeroing in on two groups of women/females that have long since itched my brain - priestess and witches... I also yearn for a Manorian book after all these years and I have been waiting for their... "boat hangouts" since I started my TOG reread. IYKYK.
Imagine my surprise when this description of a half dead Manon - a witch, yes, but a half Blackbeak, half Cochran heir, and witch queen - paralleled the one fleeting description we get of Lightsingers from Cassian while he, Nesta, and Azriel hunt for the mask (gotta love Manon's beautiful face casually being referred to as a mask) in the Middle in ACOSF.
Both of these scenes warrant a longer close read with more screengrabs (but I'm tired and have a gnarly cold a I can't kick) because both essentially question what it means to be evil... this is an oversimplification, but whether evil is in your nature or if intent is the deciding factor. But here's the lowdown:
In the ACOSF scene, Cassian literally just described witches, "not the human kind," who live in the bog/Middle before describing Lightsingers. Wow, what a fun coincidence. And when Nesta asks why the Prythian powers that be let the Middle and its creatures live, Cassian basically says that it's not right, or their call, to punish something for doing what it was born to do... unlike the inhabitants of the Prison who earned their spot there and needed to be removed from society and have their considerable powers leashed.
In the EoS scene, Dorian asks Manon (after she makes it clear he looks tasty af) if witches are partially human, to which she replies, "Not in the ways that count." Ok, ominous. Then Dorian remembers that witches have human, Fae, and Valg parts, but that "Valg blood had shaped the witches." But when Dorian asks Manon if she feels more human or Valg, Manon immediately responds saying that both the Valg, and Erawan, are her enemies. Nuance!
Things I think are interesting? Many have brilliantly speculated about Nesta's potential witchiness and her being smack dab in the middle of this big parallel is both very fun and, I suppose, unsurprising. The Dread Trove Mask and the allusion to Manon's beauty being a mask has me 👀 Also for all this talk of "oh no a Lightsinger will lure you and control you against your will..." might some of that lore been wrapped up in what it is the mask can essentially do? Granted it can only raise/control the dead, but that would qualify as "horror" to me. I think Prythian, Midgard, and Erilea are victims of the worst game of telephone ever.
Big picture? Every time a character says "oh yeah, we were taught x was evil," pretty consistently we're learning that was some big ol' Asteri (or whatever they're calling themselves on that planet) propaganda. And Cassian being taught that Lightsingers are evil when, by this reading, they could be very important witches? Well, that would make a lot of sense for someone raised by Illyrians who infamously hate witches (and women). Cassian is, of course, our sweet evolved himbo, but he might not know some myths he's always believed were fake news.
Anyway, this deserves a nice, long investigation, but my brain is already succumbing to NyQuil and my IQ is dropping by the second.
I leave you with this moving quote from Manon #growth
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ninjasmudge · 1 year
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What's your favorite thing about Wukong, MK, and Mei
And what's your least favorite thing about Macaque (as he's your favorite)
HM.
one of my fave things abt mk is how hes come into his own, owning his powers and self even though self doubt. hes a lil people pleaser, but hes not, like, a little somft uwu boy and he gives people many chances because he actively chooses to, and thinks they deserve them, but once its become too much hes happy to tell people thats e-fucking-nough as much as the censors will allow
fave thing for mei is probably her self confidence and aesthetic, she falters for sure but she has this fucking feral energy i adore and i hope nothing tames that, i dont care about how character growth is usually portrayed, you can be capable and not have to dim your fire. i understand the stuff with calming down to do the training at the end of s4 but she was also the only one with enough guts to tell him to fuck off. she got no stars but she was also the one to kick azure deadass in the face and steal swk (their trump card) back and if she hadnt, they might not have got swk back at all
fave thing abt swk is his tits his vibes. i actually like a lot abt swk fr, i like that hes a funny little guy, but you can still see bits of a more dangerous god under there, who can make the hard decisions noone wants to make because SOMEONE has to do it. hes a person with very firm convictions, even when he knows theyll get him a lot of hate. was he gonna kill the host? maybe, in hindsight its easy to say she didnt have to die, but realistically, one person vs the entire earth is a no brainer choice that noone else would have wanted to make
unpopular opinion and possibly hypocritical but i dont want canon maq to be too soft. stay a bastard. stay jagged. tbh im not sad over younger shadowpeach, and i know im a mean fucker but just in fiction, purely soft sweet relationships are pretty boring to me and i dont want that back at all. i want them to heal a little, tolerate each other, but i dont want maq to suddenly be sweet and sorry for everything. i got faith in lmk to not ruin his character tho.
also i liked his s3 outfit WAY better than his current one
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aydaptic · 4 months
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After re-entering this fandom after 5 years, I’ve realised two things about Gavin
1. He should not be as hated as he is. Can people not like him? Sure but the level of hate he has, I thought for sure that if I ever posted anything positive about him that I’d be bombarded with hate in seconds
2. I’m 100% convinced that a majority of the hate for him comes from people who feel like they have to despise him because
- They want to fit in with the people who do
- Have no critical thinking skills/empathy whatsoever and only see “character wasn’t nice so he is evil”
- Gavin hurt their fave so he deserves to die (was in another fandom that was notorious for doing this)
I’ve gotta be honest. Growth is realising that many of the reasons that Gavin gets hated for is legit bull.
He may not be nicest character in dbh but he is not as irredeemable, evil and a pathetic excuse for a human being as people make him out to be.
All of this.
I've mentioned before how "disliking" him is perfectly fine, but "hating" him? That's being a slave to your irrational emotions and being incapable of rational thought. I made a list of all the reasons I've come across for "hating" him and none of them are good reasons. His haters are borderline obsessed and constantly bring him up in unrelated topics to shit on him. They have legit issues and should seek help.
The most common reaction to Gav is simply not knowing/remembering who he is bc he only has about 10 minutes of screen time.
Meanwhile, characters like Chris (a character I also like) -- who massacred peaceful androids in Capitol Park -- hypocritically only get love bc "he's not mean to Con" (...and bc he's black, so nearly everyone nowadays is scared to be labeled "racist" for saying a single bad word about him.) I've said it before. Morally, Chris has done way worse than Gav ever did. It's not even close.
Gav is the most publicly hated character in the fandom and it's indeed undeserved. It doesn't matter that he gets a lot of fan creations when 9/10 of the ppl making them won't hesitate to throw him under the bus if the groupthink hate wagon's need arises. It's pathetic.
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valentineemoryy · 1 month
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Stuff You Can Find In My Tyrus Fanfiction:
[ as stated in the beginning of my fanfiction that isn’t out yet, but hopefully this will get the Andi Mack fandom hyped for fresh content ]
- i ADORE the tj and amber siblings theory so that'll be prominent in this
- i hate the trope in tyrus fan fiction where cyrus is full of angst and despair because it's so fanon it becomes uncomfortable, so if you're expecting that i'd back out now
- there won't be a mass amount of ambi in this (as much as i do ship them) because i feel it takes away from the main ship too much and has been overdone in tyrus fics a million times
- they are all aged 16/17 in this, so they're juniors (i think, i'm from england where the grade system is different so bare with me) BUT there will be no hardcore smut ! there'll definitely be implied sexual tension but it will go no further because as a woman i feel uncomfortable writing mlm smut
- aroace jonah my beloved <333
- EMO MARTY
- sapphic iris my baby !!!
- kira redemption arc that we deserved (only slightly though - can't fix every mean character)
- i probably won’t mention them much (this may change i might give them p l o t) but libby and walker are dating and i LOVE them and don’t take criticism (also meaning queer libby my love)
- dumbass trio
- and so many side plots and depth/growth for your faves <333
[ if this appeals to you, follow me on wattpad !! - @valwritesthings
i’ll keep anyone updated on how developments going, but it’ll take a while because 1) slowburn and 2) you guys deserve a well thought out and written, completely perfected storyline ]
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sunbeamah · 1 month
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If you don't mind me asking, can I ask your top 5 (or top 3) favorite characters from JJK? And why you loved them? And your top 5 favorite moments from the series? Sorry if you've answered this question before....Thanks....
I don't mind you asking at all!! Actually I'm very glad you asked! :) I love talking about jjk and I think I've annoyed everyone I talk to irl far too much about it at this point!
Oh and please put your top 5 favourite characters and scenes in the replies!! (That goes for anyone reading this as well-- I'm curious to see what everyone's is!)
MANGA SPOILERS (UP TO 255) BENEATH THE CUT!! (ALSO IT'S LONG AS HELL UNDER THERE!)
My favourite characters (you can all probably guess but I'm going to list them anyway!!)
Choso
Chances are, if a character is an eldest brother and has dark hair and eyes, he'll be my favourite! Dick Grayson, Uchiha Itachi, Portgas D Ace, Iida Tensei (favourite male chara based on vibe alone haha), Kamado Tanjirou, Mori ohshc (it's old ik ik but I was in love w him!).
But beyond that, I just adore Choso. His devotion to his brothers, his awesome use of blood manip, how intense he is and how tired he looks-- he's awesome!
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2. Yuuji
Again completely unsurprising! I also tend to go for upbeat, spunky and happy characters as my favourites. He goes through so much, but still manages to maintain an iron resolve and hold onto others, and to create and protect special bonds with others. I truly admire this about his character-- and I hope he gets the happiness he deserves. If not, I'm always willing to write it for him hehe.
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3. Maki
Maki is so cool to me, I enjoyed the chapter with her and that sumo guy so so much-- imo he was her first real mentor! (Sorry Gojo!) I love how relentlessly strong she is, how tough she's had to become and how, no matter what was happening, she held onto her own resolve. Everything she did being for Mai absolutely stole my heart.
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4. Nobara
Nobara saying she "only has so many chairs for people in [her] life", vs seeing just how many chairs were there, waiting for her to find special people to fill them absolutely broke me when I saw it animated. I was legit crying. I love how assertive and aggressive she is, and how she's still a very sentimental and protective person. Her admiring Maki was so cute, I could never let those scenes go!
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5. Sukuna
I have to give it to him, he's a great villain. I was skeptical about this at first-- I love Nanamin and Gojo and Miguel and Yuki and so many others so much! -- but looking through the screenshots of the manga I have, 70% of it is Sukuna. He's very attractive, so relentlessly evil and just so strong, too.
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Now for my favourite scenes!! Sorry if this is way too much to read!
Red Scale
The entire episode. I've rewatched it so many times and screamed at all the same parts. I love the fighting, the animation, blood manipulation coming in clutch, the memories that don't exist-- everything! It's just such a fun episode to watch! And on top of that they're my two faves, of course I love it!!
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2. Higuruma Hiromi saying "let's have a retrial"
Listen-- I don't know why, but something about that panel is SO attractive to me. I was screaming at his later scenes (I wanted Sukuna's head on a pike and his ass on the executioner's blade), but that early shot of him just refuses to leave my mind.
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3. Maki sumoing with Miyo
IMO he was her first proper mentor, and I love the growth that we see in her, and the insight into her mental state since losing Mai. My heart broke for her in that scene, so getting to see something more personal of her, how she struggled with everything that had happened to her and all her responsibilities, and how she was able to overcome it by focusing on the present, on what she could and could not see-- rather than everything she had to do.
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4. Yuuji, Nobara and Megumi going crazy at the end of s1
I will never get Megumi's crazy smile and laughter out of my head-- he let LOOSE!
Nobara's "game of chicken" had me giggling like mad, yelling at the screen, cheering, everything!
Yuuji and Nobara's black flashes cemented this scene pack for me-- I just love it! Their powerups, their growth in this short period and their teamwork! I love to see it hehe.
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5. Todo's locket opening to reveal Yuuji and Takada-chan
Todo is so genuinely special to me. I have never seen a more delusional character, and I don't think I ever will. I've loved him since he asked Megumi what his type of woman is, and every time he's on screen I can't help but laugh. This scene in particular made me cry with laughter-- the whole episode I was clapping and cheering, mimicking his poses, texting incomprehensible messages to my friends. Todo is everything man.
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