#In the original comic it's Superboy-Prime's reality punch | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

balis77 · 5 months

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You know I feel like whenever people talk about something that's been going on so long the quality has decayed because the creators just keep throwing out more stuff, they're usually talking about long runner cartoons like Spongebob or Fairy Odd Parents, or shows that went way past the point of original planning and lost the original plot like Walking Dead or Game of Thrones.

But you know what's probably the ultimate example of "We've been going so long and through so many writers we've lost all semblance of sanity"? Fucking comics. You have any idea how absolutely deranged mainline DC and Marvel have gotten over the years, using the same narrative for their main titles for so long?

Eddie Brock got retconned into having cancer, then retconned into thinking he had cancer because the symbiote wanted him to think he had cancer so he wouldn't take it off, only it turned out it did so so well it actually gave him cancer

Wally West once accidentally murdered a whole bunch of superheroes at a superhero mental health facility because his powers randomly overloaded in a way that never happened before or since. It was a whole mystery as to who could've done it and not only was Wally not one of the suspects the whole time, he was thought to be one of the victims, and there was absolutely 0 foreshadowing or clues to any of this being the case.

Jason Todd initially came back to life because a multiverse variant of Superman (Superboy Prime, long story) punched reality so hard it retconned him into never dying in the first place. Except everything else played out the same so he literally had to break out of his own coffin even though he never died.

Scarlet Witch and Quicksliver have been retconned back and forth from being Magneto's kids like a dozen fucking times. And note, the idea that they could be his kids in the first place was itself a retcon since they were initially labeled as being the kids of two completely different superheroes from Golden Age.

The symbiotes went from being "Strange alien slimes that act as symbiotic suits for people" to being the spawn of the god of darkness, who's original appearance for them was... a bunch of dragons. Not the symbiotes possessing dragons just... symbiotes perfectly formed into the shape of dragons. And two of these dragons wound up on Earth in ancient times and were the basis for Grendel and his mother from Beowulf.

Spider-Man once discovered Gwen Stacy had an affair with Norman Osborne, and because of the goblin formula in his body the kids from that affair aged rapidly to adults who Osborne then sent to kill Peter by telling them that Peter was their father and killed their mother. Mary Jane even told Peter she knew about the affair beforehand... except this was so unpopular it got retconned to being even more ridiculous, because actually the affair wasn't real, Norman had Mysterio hypnotize MJ into thinking it was real by disguising himself as her therapist, the kids were actually clones he made (and weren't in on any of this), and the whole thing was just a needlessly elaborate bit to fuck with Peter Parker.

In both DC and Marvel vampires are real. Not like, "there was a scientific experiment that made someone with vampire-like abilities" (Even though this has happened in both. Characters like Man-Bat and Morbius just coincidentally super-scienced their way into similar traits), not any kind of mutant or metahuman infection, but like, just normal, Bram Stoker-style vampires are real and always have been. Dracula is a character in both. Hell in Marvel he fought alongside Captain America in World War 2 against the Nazis. Jubilee got turned into a vampire for a while because Dracula's son bit her.

#comics are fucking weird #Honestly I maintain that though good stories do come up now and again dc and marvel comics are best used as a mythos to draw from #because all this happening in the same universe is absolutely fucked man #DC comics #Marvel #spoilers for a lot of events #long runner shows #comic books

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ectonurites · 2 years

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are you telling me that only the boys get the Lazarus side effects??

Jason: yeah, dying and coming back after a dip in the league's evil mountain dew turns you evil for a while, but I'm getting over it

Cass: being too cool for school is inherent protection from the evil murder phase

Well, no.

Lets... go over a few things.

More or less, everyone dumped in a Lazarus Pit gets side effects! But they do not last nearly as long as you're probably thinking they do based on what you just said here about Jason... for like anyone as shown in main comics canon.

Like I just can not stress enough that the vast majority of what most people think about pit madness- especially in relation to Jason- is fanon (also I thiiiiink Arrowverse shows could have had an impact here? because as I recall pit madness worked differently there. But that is its own separate universe). The canon of it is 'yes there is initial rage and instability that comes from using the pit, how long it lasts can vary' but pit madness lasting longer than like a day or so and being something that continually effects a person longterm after a single dip? That's just not really a thing in the comics. It's fanon, or derivative of stories outside of canon. (Now there are examples where repeated use may have longer lasting/different effects, and then there's unique situations like with Nora Fries where due to experimentation done to her body beforehand- and the fact she’d been dead a long time- she reacted to the pit differently, but I'm talking about normal circumstances single use)

I've done some more in-depth discussion about Jason's resurrection in this post that I think is relevant here. Also worth noting is that the Lazarus Pit is not even what brought Jason back from the dead. The Lazarus Pit healed Jason's mind, but was not the actual thing that brought him back! That was Superboy-Prime punching reality. The pit not actually resurrecting him is even true in New 52 canon (though New 52 canon never really elaborates on why he woke up in his grave that I recall, but his secret origins story [Secret Origins (2014) #5] confirms that he did come out of his grave first on his own and then Talia put him in the pit)! Like, the Lazarus Pit being what resurrected him is only really the case in the Under the Red Hood movie.

Versus like Cass? Cass died and was actually brought back purely by the pit. She wasn't dead for long, but she was still dead when she went in! And she did have madness for a hot sec upon coming out of the pit- but it's the sort of thing that for her wore off during the length of one conversation with Shiva:

(Batgirl (2000) #73)

(Also Batgirl (2000) #73, just a few pages of Shiva talking later)

That's... more along the lines of how pit madness is shown to actually work in most instances of canon I've ever seen/heard about. Like I do think Cass probably got over it quicker than some others, but it's just not the sort of thing someone really deals with super longterm! I recall one instance during Batman and Robin (it’s directly linked in the post I linked above) in which Damian basically says Pit Madness is the type of thing that’d wear off in less than the length of time it takes to fly from England to Gotham.

Jason's preboot comics content like... in no way implies that the pit really has anything to do with his behavior post-resurrection- his behavior is rooted in anger over the situation with Bruce & like... trauma over the fact that he did die. In the New 52 Secret Origins issue there is a line about Talia: "She recoils. Part of her is afraid of me. Good. I'm a little afraid too." In Jason’s narration as he comes out of the pit that could be interpreted as related to immediate pit madness, but that's still not something shown to be longterm.

Fandom just latches onto the pit madness concept with Jason specifically, and I definitely in large part blame the UTRH movie for it- because of the emphasis put on the pit within the movie & that line where Jason alludes to the possibility of the pit turning him 'rabid' while taunting Bruce (a line that does not exist in the comic, and even within the context of the movie still feels more like Jason just trying to mess with Bruce rather than a genuine possibility).

Like, I don't entirely hate pit madness as a concept to explore in fandom in general- because the idea of effects that come from something like that that're more longterm is definitely interesting! But I do personally hate how a lot of fans use pit madness as an excuse for Jason's canon actions/a way to absolve him of the blame for things he very much so chose to do (typically with the purpose of reintegrating him into the family). And like... if all the characters who've had Lazarus Pit dumps (Cass obviously as already mentioned here, but also some more examples are Kate, Dinah, Diana, Shiva, Riddler, and fucking hell even the Joker has gone in one before and his pit madness made him temporarily sane) got the same sort of treatment/exploration with the concept then I prob wouldn't care as much, but the fact that it's just Jason definitely does bug me.

Soooo yeah. It’s not that just the boys get Lazarus side effects, it’s that many fans apply the concept to Jason while not being aware/understanding what they’re doing is for the most part not based in canon, and also not being aware of the other characters it’d need to apply to if it were.

#sam explains

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redrobin-detective · 3 years

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Robin, hon, can you explain to me why there is bad blood between Bruce and Jason?

I could go on and on and on but in the name of both our sanities I will summarize.

Bruce found orphaned street kid Jason stealing tires from the Batmobile, adopted him and made him Robin (which pissed off original Robin, Dick, bc it wasn't Bruce's mantle to give away but I digress). Things are good for a while. But Jason had a lot of unresolved anger and depression from year living on the streets, he became reckless in the field and was overly aggressive with criminals (esp those who abused women or children like same boy). Bruce, angry and worried, pulled him from heroing to get him help. Only Jason didn't listen and when he heard his birth mother was in trouble, he ran across the world to go help her only to be caught by the Joker. He is beaten half to death by the clown and left to die in an exploding building. Robin II and Bruce's son is dead.

It's a tragedy, Bruce mourned Jason so hard almost falling apart as Batman and Wayne. Tim Drake, avid Batman fanboy who uncovered their IDs through investigatory work, tries to bring Batman and Nightwing back together to help stabilize Batman. Once the dust settles, Tim is chosen to be the new Robin, Dick and Bruce have started to reconcile and real healing is beginning to happen. All is well right?

Wrong! Turns out Jason has been brought back to life (pick your version, Superboy Prime punching reality from the inbetween space he's trapped in or Ra's al Ghul stealing the body and Lazarus Pitting him). Jason comes back mundo scrambled and it takes him awhile to get his bearings under him. All he knows is when he looks around, Batman has replaced him with another Robin and appears happy as can be. Underlying anger issues + genuine hurt feelings + post resurrection mind fuck means Jason is Pissed. He dedicates himself to learning the deadly arts Batman never taught him.

He returns in the Under the Red Hood comic (chef's kiss) as the criminal vigilante, Red Hood, who uses terror and murder to become Gotham's premiere crime lord. He lets Bruce and everyone know who he is, as dramatically as possible, with heart breaking results.

This ended up being a very long explanation to say: Jason had some tension with B before he died, blamed Batman for letting him die and then quickly replaced him not long after. He believed B didn't love him and saw his Robins as expendable pawns used to uphold his moral high ground version of justice that didn't fix Gotham. It's why Jay went on his murder spree to "do what Batman couldn't and save Gotham". He's especially mad Bruce didn't kill Joker, the man who murdered him.

Ofc Jay doesn't know everything, doesn't know how deeply and painfully Bruce mourned Jason, even years later. Didn't know that he did his best to prevent another Robin from happening and Tim basically forced his hand. Couldn't understand how close B came to killing Joker, not just for Jason but for paralyzing Barbara and torturing Jim Gordon. Jay brings up good points but in his post-Lazarus Pit single minded focus rage, all he could see was that his father didn't avenge him and took it personally.

From Bruce's end, his spunky, smart, big hearted child died and what came back was wrong. Red Hood Jason was hard and cruel and spat on Batman's number one rule to not kill. Bruce's greatest grief is shoved back in his face and B, who has never handled negative emotions well, doesn't do much to explain himself to Jason. In the end, he puts Gotham first by trying to stop Jason's murder spree not knowing he's reinforcing Jason's ideas on not being loved. Jason also attacks Tim which Bruce takes very personally bc he will NOT lose another Robin. Not even to his own child.

Once Jason calms down a bit and has some conversations with B, they come to an uneasy impasse where he's a part of the fam always but he's not quite ready to let go of the past and be a Bat or Bruce's son again.

#phew that was long #under the red hood is a masterpiece comic #Judd Winnick is a stupendous storyteller #he also did superman/shazam and YJ graduation day so good shit #anyway I needed to give ome background lore on why B and J are mad at each other #but really its just grief and misunderstandings combined with sharp objects and gotham in the middle

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sapphyreblayze · 4 years

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I know I don’t post on here that much these days, but I have Jason Todd related thoughts, and need to preserve them in a concise format, which twitter isn’t very good for. Though it’s less a thought and more a theory.

Jason died again at the end of Under the Red Hood, and I have proof.

So, I’ve had this as a headcanon for a while because, well, let’s look at the sequence of events at the end of the UTRH comic; Bruce slits Jason’s throat with the batarang, and then the building blows up. There’s no way someone should be able to survive that. But that’s not really proof is it? It’s a comic after all, people survive incredible things all the time, and the only way we know someone is dead is by seeing them dead. But beyond that, let’s look at the final page in the trade paperback, when the building blows, which is what really committed me to this headcanon.

Notice that particle effect? That’s the same effect we see in Batman Annual #25 when Jason is resurrected in coffin; therefore, you could very easily theorise that Jason is being resurrected once more here, hence the repetition. But I was still reluctant to categorise this as any more than a headcanon; until I read through the original monthly version of Batman #650, which includes an extra page not included in the trade paperback. This page.

Bruce, modern Bruce in his all-black outfit, on his knees, mourning Jason, surrounded by echoes of other Bruce’s from different timelines (this happened when Infinite Crisis was happening btw). That isn’t meant to be Bruce in Ethiopia (we can see 80s Bruce in the background in his grey and blue outfit). That’s Bruce in the rubble on Crime Alley.

And look at that textbox, ‘We’ve been here before’.

How else is one supposed to read that? Clearly, the intention here was that Jason died once more, Bruce failed him once more, and was reliving that grief all over again. Furthermore, that swirly Infinite Crisis void offers a possible explanation behind his second resurrection; in Batman Annual #25 the narrator says that Jason was never supposed to die in Ethiopia and his resurrection was a cosmic correction of sorts. But what if the Superboy Prime Reality Punch over-corrected? Jason was never meant to die, so now he never can.

That latter bit is just my speculation, trying to offer an explanation based on the evidence, but as for the main idea of Jason dying again at the end of UTRH? I think it’s well past the point of mere speculation. Because I say again, tell me, how else are you supposed to interpret that final page? What else could it be implying? And the fact that it was cut from the trade paperback speaks volumes. Because UTRH ended up not being a one-and-done, and Jason ended up becoming a recurring character, they wanted to bury his second death and pretend it never happened. And since the One Year Later timeskip happened, it was very easy to do just that. They never touched on the fallout so just... ignore that it happened.

But it clearly did, and I’m in pain. Bruce and Jason’s relationship is just a sea of tragedy, isn’t it? Death follows them everywhere, and they keep losing each other, both literally and metaphorically.

#jason todd #under the red hood #bruce wayne #batman #red hood #meta analysis #fan theory

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northoftheroad · 3 years

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Hi, I'm a bit confused with the timeline, was Tim already Robin when Jason woke up in his grave ?

I honestly don’t know what the story is supposed to be about how and when Jason was resurrected. Originally it was some time-wimey universe changing stuff after Superboy Prime punched holes in the reality... And Jason woke up six months after his death.

Batman vol 1 Annual # 25

I'm not well enough versed in Jason's post-death story to say what's been going on since. Jason was dead dead for over 15 years before anyone thought about reviving him. So any effort to puzzle his resurrection together with Tim's debut as Robin relies on retcons. But if he was resurrected after six months, there is a good chance Tim at least was training.

It's always tricky to transform from publishing time to in-story time. Dick's two years as "Ric" in our time has in Nightwing been confirmed as a few months for him. (I've seen someone argue that five years in comics is one year for the characters. Dick was Robin for 43 years in comics and eight-ten years in-universe, etc.)

For the readers, less than a year passed from Jason was killed until Tim came along. And I don't think that period is supposed to be more than a couple of months for the characters.

For instance, in Batman # 436, Dick visits the manor and the cave some time after Jason’s death. It's the last story arc before Tim is introduced. He thinks about how it was two years since he left. (At this time, the story was that he left after Bruce decided to let Robin “die”, in Batman # 408.) Those two years encompass a lot. Dick became Nightwing and didn't have much contact with Bruce; Bruce worked alone as Batman before he found Jason; Jason trained to become Robin, was Robin and was killed; and a period after Jason's death.

#robin #jason todd #tim drake #batman #dick grayson #nightwing #red hood

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batgirlgeek · 2 years

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For your send me a character:

Helena Wayne (Huntress)

Jason Todd (Red Hood)

Kate Kane (Batwoman)

Hey Kat!

Ooh, you gave me three, I like that ^^

Okay, so I’ll in order:

Helena Wayne

Favorite thing about her: She’s Catwoman and Batman’s daughter, what’s not to like about that??

I’m kidding (slightly). I actually think her backstory is really cool. She’s determined to do good as Huntress after her mother’s death and I think that’s awesome of her

Least favorite thing: She doesn’t appear in a lot of things anymore (at least as far as I can tell)

My favorite canon relationship: Honestly, I had to look this one up and I’m going to have to say I don’t have one because Helena’s only officially had one relationship (Helena Bertinelli is a different story)

My favorite non-canon ship: This is probably going to be cheaty but in my Batfamily series on Wattpad, Helena meets a guy named Daxton in college who turns out to be Hugo Strange’s son who she later marries so I’d say him

Sexuality I head canon: Ok, I’m projecting but I could see her as asexual or aromantic. There’s been some argument for her being bisexual and I’d say all the power to them (better yet, she could be both lol)

What I’d do if I could spend a day with her: Hm…probably just hang out, go shopping. She seems like a nice person to spend time with :)

Random fact about them that I like: I read the trade Huntress: Origins a while back (which complies issues of her 70s series) and she’s mentioned of being a lawyer and I think that fits her so well ^^

Jason Todd

Favorite thing about him: I just think he’s cool.

Least favorite thing: The Three Jokers story. I didn’t buy it but I did see it and I didn’t like what they did with Jason in that story (also Babs and Jason…not sure how I feel about that)

Favorite canon ship: I think Rose and Jason—I haven’t read anything with them in it but I just think I like the idea of them if that makes sense?? (I should really read more comics, I know lol)

Favorite non-canon ship: I just became aware of this but he was friends (and at one point pen pals) with Kid Devil and I feel like that ship is cute. I know a few people follow me from Wattpad (including you @blackcat2907 ) so some people may remember in my Batfamily series that I had Jason and Cass as a couple. I do have fondness for that pairing but I don’t ship them anymore so that’s kind of off the table lol

Headcannon sexuality: I don’t think I have one for him. I just see him as a straight

What I’d do if I could spend a day with him: Maybe go see a Shakespeare play, I think he’d like that :)

Random fact I like: His original reason for being resurrected was because Superboy Prime punched reality. I know it’s well known but I just find it hilarious XD

Kate Kane

Favorite thing about her: I always think her color scheme/costume is really cool!

Least favorite thing: The Batwoman tv show. Now, I haven’t seen it so I’m neutral to it but there’s been some murky stuff happening behind the scenes and I don’t like that :/

Favorite canon relationship: Easy. Her and Renee Montoya

Favorite non-canon relationship: I’m not very familiar with Kate in the shipping space so I don’t have anything to put here

Sexuality I head canon for her: I’d keep her as a lesbian. It just feels right for her and is an integral part of her identity

What I’d do if I could spend a day with her: I feel she’s the type of her person you could just drive around the city with and just chat. That sounds nice

Random fact about her that I like: I think it’s neat that she’s now considered Bruce’s cousin (but I’m less thrilled that her and Bette Kane’s relationship in modern comics has shifted from niece and aunt to cousins)

This was fun—I’d love to answer more. Batfam/Batman villains will work but other fandoms would be cool too :)

-Bat

#my asks #ask game #batgirlgeek #ace positivity

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aftermathdb · 4 years

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DEATH BATTLE Review: Winter Soldier vs. Red Hood.

Our second Live-Action DEATH BATTLE, and we have a big one!

Winter Soldier′s Preview.

So, we open up on the usual commentary that these comic book superheroes get.

With Boomstick pointing out just how often the whole “Dead parents, strong sense of justice” trope has been used.

It’s times like these that make you appreciate All Might for just wanting to help people.

But, as the hosts go on, Bucky… Eventually perished.

Or, so we thought. See, comic books… Actually yeah. Just that.

Bucky got resurrected as the Winter Soldier.

He got equipped with all sorts of things, like all sorts of training, and the Infinity Formula, which gave him some extra boosts in most areas, and basically was a knockoff supersoldier serum.

Downside: all the brainwashing meant that he clashed with his old mentor, Captain America.

After a bit of overview on how deadly he is, we go into an animated segment that talks about his arsenal.

After emasculating Wiz on his robotic arm, they go over just how powerful the arm is.

Unlike the movie version, which is made up of Vibranium, the canonical metal arm isn’t as impressive. But it’s still a powerful weapon. As mentioned earlier, it’s equipped with all sorts of additional weaponry, and is likely made up of a similar alloy as the Iron Man armor.

As far as feats are concerned, they mostly cover who he’s fought, like Wolverine, Daredevil, Iron Man, and Captain America, of course.

But eventually, Cap used the Cosmic Cube to restore Bucky, and get him back on the side of the angels. The guy even took up the old Shield and Stripes when cap died for a time.

Even still, Bucky’s road to redemption is a tough one, and is filled with self-doubt. But despite that, his sheer resilience makes him a hero in his own right.

Red Hood′s Preview.

We open on a few notable sidekicks throughout history, such as Tails, Diddy Kong, Chewbacca, and Kazooie. After a bit of snark, we go to the classic, the original, the Boy Wonder: Robin. Dick Grayson.

But after their falling out, Batman needed a new sidekick.

Enter: Jason Todd, who was basically introduced to Bruce by trying to steal the tires off of the Batmobile.

The kid had a rough life, so Bruce thought that training him to be Robin would put him on the right path.

Unfortunately, as Boomstick put it, he was in a literal “Dick measuring contest” and didn’t live up to expectations. So, DC did something drastic. The fans had a choice:

Jason could live…

or die.

As history has taught us, Jason ultimately perished…

And then Superboy Prime came along, punched reality, and brought him back to life.

In the words of the great Boomstick “Take that, fanbase! Your contribution means nothing!”

Anyways, understandably pissed that the Joker was still alive, Jason decided to destroy Batman, in an attempt to prove that his merciful ways were more destructive than anything.

(Sidenote: Why hasn’t Gotham done anything about Joker? Like, what?- Does that old Diplomatic Immunity that he has keep him from getting the electric chair or something?)

Regardless, the hosts go over Jason’s arsenal and skills. He obviously has his cowl that’s his main thing.

On top of his usual guns, explosives, and knives, he also managed these… “All-Blades” to fight off the supernatural.

He also uses the same Venom as Bane.

After the typical joke of “Why is the Symbiote here?” and a jab at Wiz’s physique (or lack thereof) Wiz goes over the benefits, and the downsides of the steroid. Boomstick attempts to get superpowers by drinking it, but it’s something to inject, not consume. So… he barfs all over DUMMI.

Yeah, I kinda wish that it was a better segment.

Regardless, with this drug, he’s fought off powerful monsters, torn through alien tendrils, and even broke free of Supergirl’s grip.

He’s survived numerous things, dodged bullets, and lived through a ritual called “The Cleansing”

Be it because he was worthy, or because he was just plain stubborn, this proves that Jason is one tough SOB.

And they go over some impressive feats.

Still, Jason eventually managed to mellow out, and even teamed up with Bats and the rest of the Batfamily.

So, in the end, the best case scenario is that Red Hood has managed to land in that “Anti-Hero” sweetspot, and at worst, he’s a violent vigilante who takes the law into his own hands.

The Battle Itself.

Ismahawk is doing this battle live. Winter Soldier will be portrayed by Tyler Tackett and Red Hood will be portrayed by Tim Neff. Red Winter by John Scigulinsky, and audio led by Chris Kokkinos.

So, we get a really interesting story here, one that I assume would be an Ismahawk reference- I’d have to check out more of their channel to confirm, but basically Bruce calls Jason accusing him of gunning down some members of the League of Assassins, only for Jason to 1: Deny that it’s him, and 2:

Have some lunch.

Unfortunately, this is a DEATH BATTLE, and this season’s theme seems to be “This guy messed with my food, so I’m going to kill them” so Winter Soldier shows up.

After a brief firefight, Red Hood manages to retreat, and Winter Soldier is confronted with a battle.

After disarming his disarmed opponent, the two start doing some hand-to-hand, and they eventually take the fight to the kitchen.

We eventually go into a knife fight, and it is glorious. Like, really awesome choreography.

Anyways, Winter Soldier manages to get the Red Hood into a pickle, but the ex-Robin manages to push him off and disable his arm.

Minor complaint: That is clearly a wingding. They could have at least stylized it a bit better to make it look more distinct from Nightwing’s.

Anyways, with this brief advantage, Red Hood manages to get Bucky on the ground, but Bucky fights back with the ONE THING JASON SHOULD HAVE LOOKED FOR AND THROWN AWAY THE MOMENT HE SAW IT:

A Crowbar. Naturally, this causes some major strain on Jason’s psyche, and makes him lash out a lot more.

Anyways, the Winter Soldier takes a moment to recover his arm, while Jason picks himself back up and goes for his last trick: Venom… The drug, not the Symbiote.

And after roiding out, we get Winter Soldier’s only line in the actual fight:

So, Jason starts beating around Bucky for a bit, even managing to bring him down to the floor.

So, yeah.

Finishing blow in

5…

4…

3…

2…

1…

Verdict + Explanation.

Anyways, Wiz says the line of “This was an even match”

And to his credit… Yeah. It really was.

They were about even in all areas, and Jason’s only major advantage was stealth. But outside of that?- Bucky blew him out of the water.

Yeah, Jason had training from monks, assassins, and Batman, but Bucky’s trained with commandos, assassins, and Captain America. He took experience easily.

And when it came down to defense, Jason was out of luck.

A knife breaks when hitting the bionic arm, but the same attack cracks the Red Hood’s helmet.

Jason also had no real ways of stopping the arm for good. He could disable it for a time, sure, but it wasn’t going down so easily.

And as for breaking the grip from Supergirl?- Well, there’s a lot of context to that.

1: She wasn’t expecting the Venom. and

2: They weren’t fighting to begin with.

There’s no way that the Venom could actually match a Kryptonian’s raw strength.

Overall impression.

For the second Live-Action fight, I gotta say: That was awesome. I really did enjoy the lighting, and the choreography was really well-done.

I feel like there were some missed jokes here and there (For example, I would have enjoyed Boomstick making the comment of “Guess how I voted” when bringing up the vote to kill Jason), and the animated segment in Red Hood’s preview felt like it wasn’t informative enough. It was more of a joke that, in my opinion, fell flat.

As for easter eggs in the fight itself, like I said: I’d have to go back and try to find those for myself.

And the music felt a little muted. The first time I watched this, I was wondering if there was any music at all. Subsequent viewings does confirm this, but it really feels like the music was a bit muted.

And I gotta say: That Chekov’s Gun moment with Bucky’s actual gun was my favorite part.

9.3/10

Next Time…

Y’know, I’m glad we’re getting some Soul Eater and all, but…

Couldn’t they have at least made it Agent Venom instead? Switch it up a little, like c’mon…

Is there a fight that you want me to review? - Send an ask/request, and I’ll look into it!

Do you want to read my fanfic based around DEATH BATTLE itself? click here!

Thank you for reading, and I hope to see you next time for…

A duo two-on-two.

#Death Battle #Deathbattle #review

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sassyminnesotan · 5 years

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God I love comics

"How did Jason Todd come back to life?"

“Well, short answer, his body was put into a Lazarus Pit, a long-established plot device that can bring people back from death or near death"

"Ok, odd, but that makes a decent amount of sense for a speculative fiction genre story."

"Long answer, Superboy-Prime (the bratty child version of Superman from an alternate dimension) reached critical levels of angst, punched reality (??? don’t ask), causing fragments of time to shatter and happen differently than they originally did. Later we learn that the time-punch caused the timelines to shift so that now Jason Todd didn’t quite die in this timeline (he only died in the first place because DC infamously left his fate up to a fan vote). Though the timeline didn’t line up perfectly, meaning that Jason had to dig himself out of his own grave. Yeah. So he pops up out of his grave, but he has like no memories. He’s found by Talia al Ghul (Batman’s ex and mother of his only biological child, which is a whole other can of worms, don’t worry about it), who ends up dipping him in the aforementioned Lazarus Pit to restore his health and memories. And that’s mostly how Jason Todd came back to life. Somehow, this is one of the best back-from-the-dead stories DC has ever pulled off.”

“..........wtf”

#in which i say things #comics #dc #jason todd #i like to pretend i'm funny

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thecomicsnexus · 4 years

Photo

BATMAN: A DEATH IN THE FAMILY BATMAN #426-429 DECEMBER 1988 - JANUARY 1989 BY JIM STARLIN, JIM APARO, MIKE DECARLO, ADRIENNE ROY, MIKE MIGNOLA, ANTHONY TOLLIN AND OVER 10,000 PHONE CALLS.

Jason Todd finds out his biological mother may still be alive and he discovers there are three possible women that could be his mother. He then decides to meet each other to find out which one is the one. But at the same time, the Joker escapes Arkham and decides to make some quick money by dealing with terrorists. Both missions will collide into each other and change Batman’s life forever.

SCORE: 8

This story was a big deal when it came out, and for Batman fans, it still is. But it has been cheapened by DC’s decision to bring the character back from the dead. I assume this is not spoiler, as it is in the covers.

I will talk more about the plot in the spoiler section. I feel like in general there is a lot of lazy writing in this story. I think the idea was good, but there are many things in the story that didn’t need to be this way. I would have just removed everything about the middle east, and I would also tried to find an alternative to yet another “diplomatic immunity” plot.

Jim Aparo did his usual iconic style here, but that also means that many characters look too much alike, which is a shame. Especially when Jason doesn’t really look like a teenager.

So, something I can discuss outside of the spoiler section, is the whole gimmick of this story. The phone number vote.

From Wikipedia:

Jason Todd, the second character to take the Robin persona, was introduced in Batman #357 (March 1983). He was initially depicted with a personality and origin identical to that of predecessor Dick Grayson. However, the history-altering events of Crisis on Infinite Earths and Batman: Year One allowed editor Dennis O'Neil, writer Max Allan Collins, and artist Chris Warner to revise his backstory and personality. The changes caused Todd to grow increasingly unpopular with fans during this period; unlike the cheery and optimistic Grayson, this new characterization of Todd was depicted as foul-mouthed, impulsive, and bad-tempered.

Aware of Todd's unpopularity, O'Neil and writer Jim Starlin began discussing ways to retire the character, and before long, began to consider killing him altogether. During an editorial retreat, O'Neil recalled the success of a 1982 segment of Saturday Night Live, in which Eddie Murphy encouraged viewers to call the show if they wanted him to boil Larry the Lobster on air. O'Neil proposed a similar idea involving Todd to publisher Jenette Kahn, who liked the idea. O'Neil would later state:

We didn't want to waste it on anything minor. Whether Firestorm's boots should be red or yellow ... This had to be important. Life or death stuff.

— Dennis O'Neil

On the back of Batman #427, an advertisement was run featuring Batman carrying a severely wounded Robin. In the ad, readers were warned that Robin would die of his injuries "because the Joker wants revenge", but that they could "prevent it with a telephone call". Two 900 numbers were given: one (1-(900) 720-2660) which would let Robin live, and another (1-(900) 720-2666) which would cause him to die. The numbers were active for 36 hours, beginning on September 15, 1988, at 8 A.M. EST and ending on September 16, 1988, at 8 P.M. EST. Readers were charged 50 cents per call. Approximately 10,614 votes were cast during this period. When tallied, the final results were extremely narrow, with 5,343 votes in favor of Jason's death over 5,271 for his survival—a margin of just 72 votes. O'Neil would later admit to having voted in Todd's favor, as he felt that Batman was incomplete without Robin and feared killing Todd would lead to backlash.

"A Death in the Family" was written by Starlin. The artwork was illustrated by Jim Aparo, inked by Mike DeCarlo, and colored by Adrienne Roy. John Costanza handled the lettering, and Mike Mignola designed each issue's cover. The four-part story line began in Batman #426 (December 1988), and concluded in Batman #429 (January 1989). Two versions of issue #428 were prepared: one that would be used if readers voted in favor of Todd's survival, and another to be used if he was to be killed; the latter version ended up being used. The story line was later collected in trade paperback and hardcover form as Batman: A Death in the Family after its conclusion.

When it was first released, "A Death in the Family" generated massive media coverage and backlash over the decision to kill Robin, a beloved comic book character and pop icon. Newspapers such as USA Today and Reuters published articles about it, the latter of which would state that "a group of comic book artists and writers has succeeded in doing what the most fiendish minds of the century... have failed to accomplish". Frank Miller, author of The Dark Knight Returns (1986), was highly critical of the story, describing the "toll-free" number voting as "the most cynical thing [DC] has ever done". O'Neil and his team were caught off-guard by the amount of attention the story drew; according to him, it lasted four straight days, and was unlike anything the team had previously experienced. The story line was a bestseller in both the standard single-issue and trade paperback format.

In retrospect, Hilary Goldstein of IGN called "A Death in the Family" one of the best Batman graphic novels ever written. He described the story as "worth the price of admission", and considered letting readers vote on Todd's fate to be one of DC's strongest decisions. Both Goldstein and NPR contributor Glen Weldon agreed with the choice of killing Todd, as both felt the character was poorly developed and inferior to Grayson. Screen Rant praised Aparo's cover for the collected version, describing it as "iconic" and perfect for showing such a grim, sad moment.

From DC in the 80s:

For Batman, we did Death in the Family -- which was their best-selling book that year -- but it turns out they had all these licensing (pajamas, lunch boxes, and stuff like that) and the licensing department was very mad, everybody got mad, and they needed somebody to blame -- so I got blamed. And within 3 months all of my work dried up - Jim Starlin

Spoilers after the break...

So one of the reason I say there was too much lazy writing in this story, has to do with all the coincidences. The Joker just happens to be in the same places as two of the possible mothers. And not only that, Joker even knew Sheila when she lost her license for doing abortions. I understand why Sheila betrays Jason (she was also taking money from the poor in Ethiopia and didn’t want any problems with the law), but it was never explained how the Joker and Sheila knew each other.

There goes mother of the year!

To be honest, while Jason’s death was brutal, I always felt it was the right thing. Being Robin was child endangerment, Starlin was right in that. But it also seems like Jason magically became Robin, without much thought to it. I tolerate the pre-crisis version more than this one, but the people to blame for how he ended up being... are Max Allan Collins and Jim Starlin.

There were two versions of issue #428, and the material ended up being used for Batman Annual #25 (Infinite Crisis tie-in... more lazy writing, by the way).

But to me the idea of using diplomatic immunity once again was ridiculous, and just the idea that the Joker would become ambassador and kill everyone in the council... while representing Iran... is also quite stupid, because it would be considered an act of war on all other countries.

There is also another idea happening in the last issue. That the Joker knows who Batman is. This would make sense as it was too much of a coincidence that Jason died in that same explosion (Batman even mentions Jason to the Joker). The issue may have been edited to remove all references from the Joker that he knows who Batman is, you can read more about it here.

Both Joker and Robin would drop off the radar for an entire year, a year that was quite important for the Joker, as the Batman Motion Picture created bat-mania around the world. In fact, I am lying, the Robin concept wouldn’t take long to start resurfacing (in just a few months we would have Batman: Year Three). But the consequences of this story were felt for years, until people at DC started basically publishing fan fiction, with reality-punching Superboy prime.

If I had to vote, I would vote for Jason to die. Mostly because I know now, how much potential him dying gave to the batman and robin mythos. Having that dead Robin there is a reminder that what they do is dangerous and has no place for amateurs. I wouldn’t vote for Jason to die again now, as it wouldn’t mean a thing. Like death in comics.

#mike mignola #jason todd #robin #batman #joker #superman #dc comics #comics #review #1988 #1989 #modern age #a death in the family #jim aparo

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sebeth · 5 years

Text

Young Justice: A Bat Family And The House Of Al Ghul

Warning, Spoilers Ahead…

Seriously, turn away if you aren’t up to date with Young Justice: Outsiders – particularly episode 6.

You have been warned…

The current Young Justice season has shown the following members of the Bat-Family:

Batman (Bruce Wayne)

Nightwing (Dick Grayson)

Oracle (Barbara Gordon)

Robin (Tim Drake)

Spoiler (Stephanie Brown)

Batwoman (Kate Kane)

Jason Todd

Damian Wayne

The House of Al Ghul has the following representation:

Ra’s Al Ghul

Talia

Sensei

Damian Wayne

“Rescue Op”, the latest episode of Young Justice: Outsiders, dropped a few bombshells on the Wayne Family and the League of Shadows. Now is a perfect time for a recap and speculation post.

Batman: Has grown tired of the limitations imposed on the Justice League by the United Nations and Lex Luthor in particular. Bruce resigned from the League and formed Batman Inc. Green Arrow, Batwoman, Katana, Hardware, and Plastic Man have also resigned from the League and joined Batman Inc. Robin, Spoiler, and Arrowette resigned from Young Justice in support of their mentors.

We haven’t seen Batman since the mass resignation so we are unaware of his future plans.

Batwoman: Has made one brief non-speaking appearance. I’m assuming Kate’s origin is similar to her comic book version. She should re-appear when Batman returns on the scene.

Nightwing: Left Young Justice at the end of season two. The death of Wally West, his best friend, laid a heavy burden on his shoulders. We have no idea what Dick has been up to during the two-year time gap between season two and three. The use of hypnos in an early episode hints as adventures with Spyral, a spy organization.

The season opened with Dick breaking up meta-human trafficking rings. He’s in a relationship with Barbara Gordon. It appears Dick will/has formed the Outsiders as of the latest episode – Brion and Halo stated they’d work best “outside” the Young Justice team.

Oracle: Has been paralyzed for less than a year. The prequel comic had Babs active as Batgirl in year six. We aren’t aware of the circumstances of her paralysis but it’s most likely due to the Joker. The only question is if we will receive a “Killing Joke” flashback or if it’s only referenced in a comment. Babs is strictly working with Nightwing at this point but will she organize the Birds of Prey in the future? I would love to see Huntress and Lady Blackhawk in the YJ-verse!

Dick and Babs were both aware of Bruce’s “Batman Inc” plan but are not actively participating in it.

Robin: We’re not sure when Tim became Robin. I’ve always felt it was shortly before season two started due to the anxious protectiveness Dick had of Tim in the first episode. Tim should be around 16-17 years old in the current season. He resigned along with Batman in the first episode. Tim’s romance with Wonder Girl is on the rocks due to the resignation.

Spoiler (Stephanie Brown) – Like Kate, she has only been featured in a non-speaking role. Steph was part of the mass resignation of episode one. I’m assuming Steph’s origin is true to her comic book roots: daughter of Cluemaster, adopts the Spoiler identity to foil his crimes. A significant difference is her early adoption into the Bat family. Trust me, Steph wouldn’t have been able to join the team without Batman’s approval. Steph’s resignation suggests she has a much smoother relationship with Bruce in the YJ-verse. Another difference – Steph isn’t romantically involved with Tim. Is Cassie doomed to be the “Ariana” of Tim and Steph’s future romance? Or will Tim and Steph simply be BFFs?

Finally, Jason Todd!

Jason was seen briefly in season two as a memorial hologram. He had died sometime during years two and four of Young Justice. We’re not sure of the exact time or circumstances.

I would set Jason’s death in year four. Dick would be approximately 17 years old during the fourth year of the team. Dick, traditionally, is around 17 to 19 years old when he breaks off from Bruce and forms the Nightwing identity. Jason would have a brief tenure as Robin and a member of Young Justice before his death- allowing a very new to the role Tim to join the team in year 5.

We’ve never been told the circumstances of Jason’s death. It’s a safe bet the Joker was involved in some way.

Let’s recap the various versions:

Post-Crisis: Jason searches to find his birth mother. Sheila Haywood, said birth mother, betrays Jason to the Joker. The Joker beats Jason with a crowbar and leaves him to die in an exploding warehouse.

New 52: Very similar to the Post-Crisis death.

Under The Red Hood movie: Similar to the traditional death minus the mom.

Batman: Arkham Knight: The Joker kidnapped, imprisoned, and tortured Jason for many months. Joker appeared to murder Jason in a video, causing Bruce to stop searching for him.

Now let’s discuss the various resurrections…

Post-Crisis: Superboy Prime punched the walls of reality causing alterations of the timeline. One alteration was Jason’s resurrection. A massively brain-damaged and physically injured Jason awoke in his coffin. He dug himself out of his grave and wandered the streets of Gotham in a semi-catonic state. Talia discovers Jason and brings him to the League of Assassins. Jason has muscle memory but no intellectual capabilities. In other words, Jason can fight but not communicate. After months of no progress, Ra’s orders Jason to be sent to a home. Ra’s orders Jason will be taken care of out of respect for the Detective. A desperate Talia throws Jason into the Lazarus Pit. Jason emerges with full mental capabilities but an insane amount of rage. Talia furthers Jason’s training but also amps Jason’s rage – she sends him like an exploding bomb into Gotham. Prime targets: Bruce, the Joker, and Tim. Jason and Talia have a brief, icky, sexual relationship.

New 52: No Superboy involved – Talia straight up throws Jason into the Lazaurs Pit. She still serves as Jason’s mentor but no sex was involved. Jason’s return as the Red Hood and his roaring rampage of revenge happened before the New 52 began. We never receive the full details of Jason’s revenge but Jason comments about his rough treatment of Tim and Roy jokes about a “duffel bag of severed heads” so we’ll assume it was similar to the ‘Under The Red Hood” arc.

Under The Red Hood movie: Ra’s resurrects Jason due to his guilt over unleashing the Joker. Jason’s death was never intended and Ra’s resurrected him to make amends. Unfortunately, Ra’s couldn’t contain Jason’s rage and banished him from the stronghold.

Batman: Arkham Knight: Never died but still full of rage and bitterness due to Batman’s “abandonment” of him.

Jason is seen briefly in “Rescue Op”. He’s masked and wearing a red hood. He fights Nightwing. After Dick’s team leaves, he mutters “Grayson”.

Ra’s comments: “Oh, your memory is finally returning. Excellent.”

Let’s speculate:

We can safely assume Jason died at the hands of the Joker. It’s a universal constant. I feel it was a true death as the “faked” death of Arkham Knight doesn’t work well in universe with a Superman and a Martian Manhunter. If Batman didn’t have Jason’s actual corpse in his arms, he would have called in his entire Justice League team to find his son. And if he didn’t, Dick would have.

More questions: Was Dick in space when Jason died? Did Dick and Jason work together in Young Justice? Did the brothers have a better bond in the Young Justice universe or was it the more typical “overshadowed by Dick’s greatness” combined with Dick’s bitterness over being replaced route?

As for Jason’s resurrection…

We can rule out Superboy Prime and timeline alterations.

The Lazarus Pit is the obvious solution. However, Jason is very much in his post-grave but pre-Lazarus dip state. Has Jason been immersed in the Pit? If not, what caused his resurrection?

If Jason has been immersed in the Pit, why such a half-assed job? And where’s the rage?

The Young Justice comic book had Robin (Dick) accidentally drop Ra’s – causing the man to fall to his death. Talia and Ubu threw Ra’s into the pit and he emerged fully intact with no memory loss.

If Jason still has memory loss after the Lazarus pit – is it due to the massive head trauma caused by the Joker’s crowbar? But, again, Ra’s had died in the Young Justice-verse and been resurrected in prime condition. Talia and Ubu had to travel back to the Lazarus Pit – meaning Ra’s was dead for hours – that would also cause brain damage and he came back in perfect health.

My theory is an outside force caused Jason’s resurrection. Talia discovered Jason wondering the streets and brought him back to the League’s stronghold.

It would explain Jason’s current state. I have no idea what the “outside force” would be though.

Jason has been healing and training with the League but has not been immersed in the Pit.

Ra’s al Ghul stated in “Recue Op” that he is no longer the head of the League of Shadows or a member of the Light.

A power struggle occurred and Ra’s lost. Ra’s only has his own family – Talia, Damian, and Sensei – along with a few loyal operatives on the island. Who has assumed control of the League of Shadows?

I listed a few suspects when I covered “Rescue Op” – Cheshire and Lady Shiva. I even theorized over the introduction of Cassandra Cain. I completely forgot the most obvious suspect – Nyssa al Ghul.

Nyssa is the older sister of Talia. Nyssa lost most of her family in concentration camps during World War II – mainly because of Ra’s outright refusal to help her.

“Batman: Death and the Maidens” is Nyssa’s origin and revenge against Ra’s. She murders Ra’s al Ghul and Talia and assumes control of the League.

The trio of Nyssa, Lady Shiva, and Cheshire would be a terrifying triple threat. And if Shiva has coerced Cassandra to help? Very bad times ahead for Ra’s and Talia.

Let’s talk Talia. She only has a brief appearance in the cartoon but received a two-issue spotlight in the comic book series.

Talia is a more multi-faceted and likable character in the Young Justice-verse than she is in the mainstream DC universe.

Talia wants Bruce to love her but realizes he doesn’t/can’t – at least not the way she wants him to. She’s frustrated that her father doesn’t understand or accept this. She wants someone to see her as something other than Ra’s al Ghul’s daughter or Batman’s lover. Talia is very tired of the endless conflict between Batman and her father.

I believe Talia discovered the resurrected Jason. She brought Jason home with her so he could heal. Talia has been patiently waiting for Jason’s full recovery. In the comics, Talia didn’t push Jason into the Pit until Ra’s threatened to send Jason away. Clearly, this isn’t a worry in the YJ-verse so Talia would have no reason to immerse Jason in the Pit and risk the resulting insanity/rage.

Initially, Talia rescued Jason in the comics so Bruce would be grateful to her. Cartoon-verse Talia likely has a similar motivation.

What would cause Talia to throw Jason into the Pit – restoring his full mental capacity even at the risk of rage and insanity?

Two words: Damian Wayne.

Talia was holding baby Damian in her arms during the episode. Why introduce both Jason and Damian together unless their storylines intertwine?

I feel Ra’s successors in the League are going to pursue the remaining Al Ghuls. The League, by its various nature, is a bloodthirsty affair – predecessors aren’t allowed to live out their lives in peace. And Ra’s isn’t a “chilling on the beach” type of guy.

Damian is a newborn and I’m assuming he was conceived the old-fashioned way. None of this Talia drugged Bruce or stole his genetic material stuff. It wouldn’t be true to the Young Justice version of Talia.

Talia has a newborn and a price on all the Al-Ghul heads. Talia realizes Damian needs to be with his father for his own safety. Talia is unable – or unwilling – to leave Ra’s side. It’s possible an ambush goes very badly. A desperate Talia throws Jason into the Lazarus Pit. She orders the now fully restored Jason to bring Damian to Bruce.

Jason may not even engage in a “roaring rampage of revenge” against Bruce. Mainstream-Talia’s manipulations helped cause Jason’s revenge (“You remain unavenged”). Talia has no reason to amp Jason’s revenge in the YJ-verse – she needs Jason to get Damian and himself to Gotham asap.

Jason’s rage may not even kick in until after he hands Damian over – it could be days or weeks later when Jason discovers the Joker is still alive. Enter the Red Hood.

If Jason does go all revenge-driven Red Hood, I am going to be seriously annoyed if he focuses his anger on Dick and not Tim.

Bad enough Dick stole the founding of Young Justice and the Kon friendship from Tim, if he takes the “replacement feud” I’m going to have a fit.

Dick is the original Bat-Family thief – first Barbara has multiple accomplishments stolen from her history in order to make her Dick’s “true love”, and then Dick steals the founding of Young Justice and Superboy from Tim!

I love you, Dick, but stop stealing your sibling’s stuff. They are allowed to have accomplishments and storylines without you hogging the action!

#Young Justice #Young Justice Outsiders #Jason Todd #Talia Al Ghul #Dick Grayson #Red Hood #Nightwing #Bruce Wayne #Ra's Al Ghul #Tim Drake #stephanie brown #Robin #Joker #Nyssa Al Ghul #Batman #Barbara Gordon #Oracle #League Of Shadows

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thedcdunce · 5 years

Text

Mister Mxyzptlk

“But I have yet to begin to shenanigan! And I shall shenanigan again and again!” - Mister Mxyzptlk

Aliases:

Clark Kent

Ruppletat

Mister Mxyztplk

Mixelplik

Gender: Male

Eyes: Black

Hair: White/ Balding

Race: Imp

Powers:

Magic

Abilities:

Journalism

Weaknesses:

Power Limitation

Mental Illness

Universe:

New Earth

Prime Earth

Base of Operations: Zrfff, 5th Dimension

Marital Status: Single

First Appearance: Superman Vol 2 #11 (November, 1987)

Powers

Magic: Mxyzptlk is nigh-omnipotent and can do virtually anything imaginable; he can manipulate anything and everything under him.

Teleportation: Mxyzptlk can disappear and reappear anywhere instantly with a thought.

Gesturify: Mxyzptlk can manipulate logic and the fundamentals of reality on a multiversal scale. He can create structured lifeforms with full complexions that don't exist just by thinking, and in that regard, he can also make any living organism vanish and become non-existent at a single thought.

Metamorphosis

Immortality: Mxyzptlk is able to use magic to survive most attacks, making him impossible to defeat without exploiting his weaknesses. He can regenerate and heal himself instantly and has high tolerance to pain.

Flight

Cosmic Awareness

Abilities

Journalism

Weaknesses

Power Limitation: Mxyzptlk's actions are also governed by restrictions that he establishes for himself. If Mxyzptlk decides that he will return to the 5th Dimension if someone convinces him to spell his name backwards, then he is obligated to comply with the regulation. Once banished, Mxyzptlk must remain in the 5th Dimension for a minimum of ninety days before returning to Earth. When Mxyzptlk is banished, all of the damage he caused would be reversed and any of his spells or magic used on Earth will fade.

Mental Illness: Mister Mxyzptlk has an irrational compulsion and attachments towards practical jokes and things of a prankish, immature nature. He rarely takes fighting seriously and normally spends his battles goofing off or playing games, uninterested in harming or killing his enemies.

History

The history of Mister Mxyzptlk is unknown before he introduces himself to Superman in his most known form, although it is suggested that he visited the universe before in other forms.

Origin

According to one story, young Mxy was drawn to Earth and encountered Young Justice, years after his adult self first visited Superman. This Mxy was a serious student who was disbelieving of Young Justice's claims that he would go on to be a prankster for Earth's greatest hero. He vowed to never become that person. Unfortunately, this changed history so that the Earth was destroyed, so the boys Robin, Superboy, and Impulse had to indoctrinate Mxy with "Three Stooges" videos, changing him from the serious student to the silly prankster. However, when Superboy encountered the adult Mxy after this adventure, he seemed to have no knowledge of their encounter.

Post-Crisis

Mxyzptlk first appeared on the Post-Crisis Earth in Metropolis posing as a dashing young man named Ben Deroy, who convinces Lois Lane to marry him. Superman quickly learns that he's really an imp from the 5th Dimension. The imp agrees to go home, undoing everything he has done magically, if Superman can get him to spell, type, or say his name backwards. He then proceeds to make up a name for himself on a giant typewriter, choosing "Mxyzptlk" as he figures it will be nearly impossible for Superman to accomplish. After putting up with Mxy's antics, Superman grabs the giant typewriter where Mxy left it and defiantly said that the imp could never type the name forwards. Mxy used his magic to type the same exact keys — but Superman had rewired the typewriter, so Mxy had to go home. After he was gone, some scientists theorized that he would not be able to return for 90 days.

On Mxy's next visit to Metropolis, he revealed that the "rules" to send him back would change each time. This time around, Superman had to get him to paint his face blue, which he eventually was able to do.

The next time Mxy stopped by, he found that Superman was missing. He decided to have some fun with Lex Luthor instead, but Luthor double-crosses the imp, teaching him what a lie is in the process.

Mxyzptlk later uses his new experience with lying the next time he visits Earth. He decided to force the Flash into an around the world race against Superman, promising to leave only if Superman wins. Flash won the race, and Mxy revealed that secretly that was the real condition for his leaving.

Although Mxy exclusively annoys Superman, it has been implied that he has traveled to other universes to continue his amusement. As such, Mxy decided he did not have the time to pester Superman, but wanted to give him a hard time anyway. He appears to Luthor, and gave him a lump of "red Kryptonite" which turns Superman into a human. Mxy said it will work so long as Luthor does not tell Superman. Superman enlisted the help of Starman to steal the rock from Luthor while posing as the Man of Steel. Mxy dropped by to tell Luthor that "Superman" was really Starman before popping back out. The rock was useless to Superman, however, and as Clark Kent he angrily confronts Lex Luthor. Luthor bragged that Mxy gave him the kryptonite, figuring that he can tell Clark and Clark can tell Superman without the "rules" being violated. Unfortunately for Luthor, this breaks the spell, and Superman was restored. Mxy showed up again in Luthor's office, angry that Luthor told. Luthor accused of Mxy of lying about the rules, thinking that Mxy must have "really" meant that if he told anyone the spell would fade. Superman interrupts them before they could piece together the truth, and Mxy gets Superman to punch him out so he can get back to the other dimension.

Superman ended up being just as blind to Luthor's secret as Luthor was to his. Mxy's next encounter puts "Lex Luthor II" into his old body and uses his lying ability to torment both Luthor and Superman. Superman managed to defeat him and send him home again.

Mxyzptlk's next encounter was a minor one, occurring when an enraged Superman became convinced that Mxy was responsible for a dead body in his image appearing his old tomb. Mxy turned up to confess that he was not responsible, but given how much turmoil Superman had been under, he wouldn't heap on any more.

On his next visit, Mxy tried being "nice" by granting people's wishes — although the results of the wishes are disastrous: a woman who wishes her dough would rise faster results in it flooding out into the street; several people's desire to have a river view apartment cause their building to stand up and walk over to the river; and many, many people all win the lottery all at once. Mxy was distraught when he finds that Lois has broken off her engagement with Clark. He tries to put them back together, resorting to everything he knows how, but they all fail. He told Superman that he never used his wish, so he can wish for Lois to get back together with him. Instead, Superman wishes Mxy would return home.

Mxyzptlk was therefore happy when Clark and Lois got back together. He showed up at the church in both his new, cutesy form and his classic form to wish Superman the best, promising a visit sooner or later.

Mxy's next visit was pretty harmless, however. He arrived during a funeral and having no real understanding of mortal death, thinks the whole thing is rather hilarious. Superman was not amused by Mxy's mocking the subject of death — so Mxy makes fun of Superman's new costume and powers instead. He then decided to learn about death and earn the admiration of the world by recreating Superman's battle with Doomsday only with himself fighting the creature. Unfortunately, the creature is a little too good, and it succeeds in actually killing Mxy. The imp ends up at the desk of the "supreme being," Mike Carlin, the editor for the Superman books at the time, who restores him to life in the comics.

Rebirth

Mxyzptlk was captured by a transdimensional booby trap created by Mister Oz, putting him in a negative space prison. Mister Oz commented that because fifth dimensional beings were immortal, it would be 2,000 Earth years before either Mxyzptlk's girlfriend or Bat-Mite realized he was gone. Mxyzptlk gloats to Oz that Superman will come looking for him; when he doesn't, Mxyzptlk suffers an emotional breakdown. In the depth of despair he says Kltpzyxm, and finds out that it can crack his prison. However, it is very painful for him to do so. He pushes through the pain and, after saying Kltpzyxm with multiple heads, escapes the prison.

However, Mxyzptlk finds that Mister Oz prepared for this possibility. To escape, Mxyzptlk turned himself into a physical and mental duplicate of Clark Kent. However, the inconsistencies of those who remembered Clark Kent caused him to confront Superman and his family. This encounter prompts him to remember who he truly is. Eager for revenge at being forgotten, he kidnaps Jon Kent, Superman and Lois' son. Mxyzptlk also reveals that both the New Earth and Prime Earth Supermen are actually two halves of the true, complete Superman, who was split into two separate people during the Flashpoint. The two Supermen save Jon and become a single, complete version of Superman, while Mxyzptlk escapes to another dimension, as his actions have brought the attention of an entity even he fears.

Fun Facts

Mister Mxyzptlk reveals that he can move from one alternate reality to another and that the name he uses has different spellings and pronunciations depending on the reality he is in: Mxyzptlk, Mxyztplk, Mixelplik. The pronunciation on New Earth was mix-yez-pittle-lik.

Mxy did not only plague Superman in the DC Universe, but it was hinted at that he was also the character Impossible Man from the Marvel Universe. This was a joke when he is shown in another universe having fun with his four "fantastic" new friends, and that it was "impossible" for him to always remember what he looked like from one universe to the next.

Mister Mxyzptlk is the name he adopts after he introduces himself to Superman and says that his real name would never translate into any Earth language.

Mister Mxyzptlk is sometimes simply known as Mxy.

Mister Mxyzptlk has an irrational compulsion and attachments towards practical jokes and things of a prankish, immature nature. He rarely takes fighting seriously and normally spends his battles goofing off, uninterested in harming or killing his enemies. It has been demonstrated that this is an aspect of Mxyzptlk's interaction with a three-dimensional reality such as the Earth-dimension. The more time he spends in the Earth dimension, the more prone he is to engage in puckish behavior.

#mister mxyzptlk #clark kent #ruppletat #mister mxyztplk #mixelplik #dc #DC comics #thedcdunce

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hellzyeahthewebwieldingavenger · 6 years

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No Comicstorian, Marvel DOESN’T need a reboot Part 1: DC history

Youtube channel ‘Comicstorian’ recently put out a video detailing why he feels the PS4 Spider-Man game proves why Marvel needs to reboot their history.

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I was so gobsmacked by how misinformed his views were I felt compelled to debunk his statements in two parts, the first being a coverage of DC comics history of reboots.

“This game proves that Marvel should do what DC does and soft reboot their continuity every 4-7 years”

This is the first and probably biggest point of bullshit spoken about and I suspect my points will apply to the rest of the video’s arguments.

The idea of this one game adaptation ‘proving’ Spider-Man, let alone ALL OF MARVEL COMICS, needs to reboot their continuity is laughable at best. Did Batman the Animated Series prove Marvel needed to reboot their history? Did X-Men the Animated Series? Did the X-Men movies? Did X-Men Evolution? Wolverine and the X-Men? The 1994 Spider-Man cartoon? The Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon? The Raimi Movies? The MCU?

All of those are wonderful adaptations of the comic book characters (mostly) but none of them led to anyone rebooting anything, reorientating maybe but not rebooting. Moreover if all those more public and serialized stories were awesome and modernized the characters why does this ONE GAME prove that NOW we need to do this for Marvel?

It doesn’t prove anything, it’s just his ‘feelings’.

But there is a bigger issue with this point of view.

Comicstorian is mind blowingly out of touch with the nature of DC’s reboots.

Broadly speaking it is understood that a hard reboot in comic books is something like Crisis on Infinite Earths wherein the majority of old stories for a character are thrown out and the fundamental building blocks of them are changed or remixed in major ways.

Even for a character like Batman his origin as recounted in the Golden Age was significantly different when it came time to reboot him in the 1980s post-crisis, even though it retained the same basic ideas and story beats. For Wonder Woman and Superman this was an even bigger deal as for the most part their whole origins as understood in the 1980s were burned down and started over representing a drastically almost opposite direction for their characters. And of course 90% of their then established history was just outright deleted, in Wonder Woman’s case this being 100%. Every post-crisis WW story is the ENTIRE HISTORY of post-Crisis Wonder Woman, nothing was carried over from pre-crisis.

A soft reboot by contrast is something more like what happened in the 1990s with Zero Hour. In Zero Hour the then established lore and histories of every character were retained near identically and only smaller details were changed or tweaked. Those could have big knock on affects but those were not deliberate on the part of the authors.

Why am I defining what a hard and a soft reboot is? Because Comicstorian claims that DC engage in them every 4-7 years and this is objectively untrue.

The FIRST reboot DC technically engaged in was in the 1950s when they created Barry Allan, a new iteration of the Golden Age hero the Flash, thus dawned the Silver Age of comics.

Whilst the intention to create a new version of the Flash was deliberate, calling this a reboot as we understand the term today is kind of weird because back in the 1950s the notion of a sequential continuity that mattered in defining who exactly the characters were simply didn’t exist for DC comics. They just had general ideas of who every character was and then just did whatever they wanted, even recycling ideas every 5 or so years because it was felt that the readership would rotate in and out within that time. no mention of such similar plots occurring was ever brought up even though technically they were happening to the exact same versions of the exact same characters who’d experienced near damn the same things before.

That type of storytelling just didn’t exist for the characters. Basically Barry Allan was created as the new Flash, interacted with Superman and Batman the way Jay Garrick did all the while handwaving that Jay Garrick was just a comic book character because the writers were like “Fuck it. No one cares and it doesn’t matter.”

Except fans did care and thus it wound up mattering. Fans wrote in asking how Jay Garrick could be a comic book character in the DC Universe when they’ve seen stories where he wasn’t and where he wasn’t and how the fuck Barry Allan thinks he’s the first Flash.

This is when DC ‘rebooted’ their continuity by establishing that the Golden Age stories happened on ‘Earth 2’ and all the silver age and beyond stories were on ‘Earth 1’, with the exact point of transition for individual characters varying. This was never the authorial intention by anyone. As far as 1950s Superman writers knew or cared up until that point they’d just been writing the same Superman who showed up in 1938. Same deal with Batman though DC tried to claim that Earth 2 Batman was the guy who didn’t have a yellow oval on his chest and Earth 1 was the guy who did.

With the concept installed they then went wild with it telling stories about Earth 1 and Earth 2 and how they were similar yet different, e.g. they married Earth 2 Superman and killed Earth 2 Batman whilst they remained committed to Earth 1 (their main versions) Superman staying single and Earth 1 Batman obviously staying alive.

This wasn’t a reboot that occurred due to freshen things up or anything. It was just the Flash writer not giving a shit and doing what he wanted and DC pulling an explanation out of thing air to justify it.

Their first true reboot was in the 1980s when they did Crisis on Infinite Earths and in the story combined Earth 1 and Earth 2 whilst deleting parts of it and every other universe so that they could reshape their whole line of comics.

Did they do this just because you know the old continuity had been around for awhile and it was time to freshen things up and make it more modern?

No they did it because the writers of DC didn’t want to deal with the insane contradictory mess the old DC universe (that hadn’t had much planning and developed haphazardly) and also because they wanted their universe to be more like Marvel’s.

Remember that. the biggest reboot DC ever did was because they wanted their universe to be like Marvel’s because Marvel’s, which was like 20-25 years old at the time, was more successful.

Then the next reboot was Zero Hour in the mid-1990s. Did THIS exist to freshen things up and modernize it?

Fuck no.

Zero Hour mostly existed to pay off a Green Lantern storyline and more significantly to just clean up continuity snafus that had cropped up because DC hadn’t perfectly planned out everything the first time they rebooted in the 1980s.

Then came Superman: Birthright in like 2003. This was originally meant as a non-canon update of Superman’s origin by uber Superman fanboy Mark Waid, recycling ideas from a failed pitch he (and Mark Millar and Grant Morrisson) had made in 2000 to also reboot Superman.*

But then it was folded into DC’s continuity effectively replacing Superman’s origin story from the 1980s by John Byrne although DC kinda sorta pretended like BOTH origins counted and like between them this is Superman’s actual canonical origin and Birthright contradicted nothing.

Except it did and they later explained that Superman’s history, along with other alterations to the DC universe pre-2006 had occurred due to Superboy Prime punching a fucking wall which causes reality altering shockwaves or some shit like that I don’t know.

That idea cropped up in the 2006 event comic Infinite Crisis which was a direct sequel to Crisis on Infinite Earths and another soft reboot of DC’s history but kind of a bigger one than in Zero Hour. Whilst Birthright was an unintentional reboot of just Superman, Infinite Crisis was a deliberate soft rebooting of the entire DC universe.

Because it was just again time to freshen things up, modernize the characters and inject some creative energy into the universe?

Lol noooooooooooooooooooooooooooope!

Infinite Crisis existed primarily out of the mind of writer Goeff Johns and to a lesser extent Dan Didio, EIC of DC Comics.

In not so many words both have more or less admitted their desire to work for DC was specifically to restore Barry Allan and Hal Jordan as the Flash and Green Lantern respectively after the former died and got replaced in Crisis on Infinite Earths and the latter went evil and got replaced in the 1990s Ron Marx run of GL.

And when you know this and look at their statements and work before and after Infinite Crisis along with what actually happens and the unsubtle metacommentary within the story it becomes obvious why the story really existed.

The story existed because John and Didio, like Waid, Morrisson, Millar and probably other people at DC,were butthurt that the versions of the DC characters they grew up on had been rebooted way back in the 1980s in COIE.

And there is plenty of circumstantial evidence supporting this.

In the 2000s DC had slowly but surely already been working in silver age elements back into the DC universe, for example Superman was dealing with lots of different types of kryptonite, reintroducing his cousin Supergirl and his dog Krypto and getting steadily more and more overpowered. This is in spite of the 1980s reboot specifically wanting to restrict kryptonite to just the green kind, powering down Superman and make him distinctly the lone survivor of Krypton.

The Superman 2000s pitch by Waid, Morrisson and Millar is very revealing because it makes it very clear that the Superman/Lois Lane marriage (something that was born very directly out of the new directions of the post-crisis era) needed to go so they could get back to the Supes/Lois/Clark love triangle. In fact the proposed story of the pitch was all about Superman rebooting his history in order to save Lois’ life which would mean undoing their marriage. Along with that the pitch made Superman even more sci-fi and powered up again evoking the silver age all of them have been on record as adoring.

Even if you were unaware of this Morrisson’s All-Star Superman story was built off the back of being a love letter to the silver age Superman stories and his Batman run adopts a Silver age story as a key foundation stone for the story he wanted to tell.

Johns equally makes his adoration of the silver age obvious in almost everything he does, even referencing how great a new silver age of superheores will be in an episode of Smallville he wrote.

When Johns personally wrote Superman’s rebooted origin after Infinite Crisis he re-established various silver age elements into Superman lore, including his being Superboy as a teen, his membership in the Legion of Super Heroes, Lex Luthor being a childhood friend of Clark��s and him losing his hair as a result.

The big takeaway from Infinite Crisis? It existed because DC’s staff wanted to recreate the status quos they loved as kids and because they hated the post-crisis stuff for the most part because it erased those versions. This is especially true of Mark Waid who is candid about how mad he was that Superman got rebooted by John Byrne and asked at a panel in his youth when the ‘real’ version (pre-crisis version) was going to come back.

Wonder Woman herself underwent a kind of reboot too under J. Michael Straczynski’s tenure where her history got futzed with. This wasn’t an isolated incident.

Then DC did their second (or third if you wanna count the Earth 1-2 shit) hard reboot in 2011.

The story was Flashpoint and it set up the New 52 era. The Nu52 was again Silver Age inspired but used shitty 1990s tropes at the same time. Because Jim Lee had been given a position of power in DC by this point.

What followed was for almost every character five years of near solid deterioration. Wonder Woman and Superman got fucked especially hard, not only because they were shipped together (thus fulfilling a stupid Silver-Bronze Age ship born out of Diana being able to not die during sex with Clark) but because their characters were just....broken.

Diana devolved into this kind of Xena/300 character who had a biological Daddy (just like in the Silver Age) a mother with blonde hair (just like in the Silver Age) and generally began to have her narrative revolve around the men in her life like Ares, Zeus, Orion, her brother, Apollo, Superman, etc (just. Like. In. The. Silver. Age!)

Now that wasn’t the case for Superman. He just went back to being an isolated alien God whom Lois Lane didn’t think much of and being overpowered as fuck. They just added him this lame young and unsure of himself bullshit to make him more like post-One More Day Spider-Man. A reboot trying to make a DC character more like a Marvel one, who’d have thunk it?

Meanwhile over in Batman Barbra Gordon went back to being able to walk and became Batgirl again in essentially the identical costume she had in the Silver Age and Bruce Wayne briefly dated rarely seen Silver/Bronze Age girlfriend Julie Madison.

Barry Allan meanwhile was the one and the only Flash, Wally West the defining post-Crisis Flash had never even held the mantle and was not going to.

Basically if Infinite Crisis was the powers that be warping the DC universe to more resemble what it was like when they were kids in the Silver Age then the Nu52 was them just erasing the DC universe and replacing it with their shitty Silver Age fanfiction. It was what they obviously had deep down wanted to do back in Infinite Crisis if they’d been allowed.

And I cannot stress this enough, it failed.

It failed spectacularly.

It was the single most promoted DC reboot ever with TV adds, they made an effort to court the digital comics crowd, they had new #1s to entice new readers, they got rid of all their old history to (in theory) REALLY entice new readers.

And their sales spiked...at first.

Then gradually died and died and died.

Except for Batman, the character who famously changed the least from one reboot into the next, retaining most of his over all history.

It got so bad that DC reintroduced the pre-Flashpoint Superman (complete with his wife Lois and now with their new son Jon) and had them co-exist in the primary DC universe alongside nu52 Superman.

Then they killed Nu52 Superman off and had pre-FP Superman decide to fill in for him.

And this was all part of an initiative called DC Rebirth in 2016. What was DC Rebirth?

DC Rebirth was an effort to essentially reinstate a lot of the history and directions of the DC characters from the post-crisis/pre-flashpoint era (so like 1986-2011) BACK into the DC universe via you guess it, soft rebooting it.

Was this just because it’d been 5 years now so it’s time to freshen things up?

Jesus Christ no. DC Rebirth existed as an apology for having rebooted in the new 52!

Again Superman was a microcosm of this. Not only was the pre-flashpoint Superman, the guy with most of the history from 1986-2011, now the primary Superman but in a 2017 story called Superman: Reborn DC cosmically integrated him into the prime DC universe so that his history now stated he had ALWAYS been there as the main defining Superman and all that happened was he wore the nu52 Superman’s costume for awhile.

His history though was essentially the one we got from after Infinite Crisis so in effect they reverse rebooted Superman because the 2011 rebooted version of him was so aweful.

Wonder Woman got much the same treatment with ANOTHER new origin for her but one more in line with her Golden Age and Post-crisis origin that threw out the trash from the 2011 nu52 origin.

Sales and critical acclaim for DC over all increased after Rebirth and fans were loud and vocal about how much they appreciated DC essentially fixing what they’d broken in 2011, with Superman being perhaps the biggest example.

Superman had something like 7+ reboots across his 80 year history and the DC universe over all about 6 across the same span of time.

Meanwhile Marvel between 1961-present has never rebooted their continuity and...has usually outsold DC.

In fact the only DC title that regularly tends to outsell major Marvel titles is Batman. That character who again has been altered the least reboot to reboot.

What is the big takeaway from all this? Well

a) DC didn’t reboot (be it soft or hard) every 4-7 years. The Earth 1 and 2 concepts showed up something like 18ish years after the DC universe began. COIE occurred around 20 years later. Zero Hour was 8 years after COIE ended. Infinite Crisis was 12 years later. Flashpoint/the New 52 was 5 years after that and Rebirth was 5 years after that

b) Reboots never occurred for the sake of keeping things fresh or a sincere desire to generate new creative directions. They existed either to plug holes by careless writing (Earth2 and Zero Hour), purely corporate reasons (like making things more like Marvel), an attempt to recapture nostalgia (Infinite Crisis, New 52, Rebirth) or a desire to ‘fix’ whatever older reboots ‘broke’ (Infinite Crisis/New 52, Rebirth)

c) Reboots are not creatively healthy, they just lead to more and more retcons and reboot turning everything into a clusterfuck

d) Maintaining a fairly consistent continuity is actually creatively and financially more sensible hence DC is routinely outsold by the company that has never rebooted

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