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canary3d-obsessed · 3 years

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Restless Rewatch: The Untamed, Episode 23, second part

(Masterpost) (Other Canary Stuff)

Warning: Spoilers for All 50 Episodes!

Nature Abhors a (Power) Vacuum

Jin Guangshan, Nie Mingjue, and Lan Xichen have gathered to decide what to do about the remaining Wen people and also what to do about the Yin metal. They have not invited Jiang Cheng to this discussion, or blowhard Clan Leader Yao, despite those clans having been hit particularly hard by the Wens in the course of the war.

The three of them have a conversation about what to do with the Wen captives, showing their different attitudes towards killing.

Jin Guangshan: Killing is awesome, particularly in project management. It's just so efficient. Nie Mingjue: Killing is necessary, and a little bit fun, too. Lan Xichen: Killing is necessary, sadly, but we can randomly spare some women or old people, as a token sign that we’re not monsters. Kind of like when you have a fancy dinner and include a tofu dish for the vegetarians. Nie Mingjue: Nobody likes tofu, Xichen.

Jin Guangshan says he's looking for the Yin Iron and that they can't let any Wens or "ambitious people" get a hold of it. By ambitious people he means Wei Wuxian, not himself and his murder kid. Lan Xichen realizes this right away but doesn't, you know, do anything to contradict him. Jin Guangshan says he's asked "A-Yao" to look into it. Which is smart, because A-Yao is already in cahoots with Xue Yang, who actually has the piece of Yin Iron they're looking for.

Getting Jiggy With It

Then Jin Guangshan introduces Meng Yao, now renamed Jin Guangyao, in a weird twist on generation names. He has given him the name of a sibling or cousin of his own generation (starting with Guang), rather than a name of the next generation (starting with Zi). JGS says that JGY just recently learned about about being related to him, although we know perfectly well that's not true.

And they both talk like he appreciates JGY's efficiency and helpfulness, but that's not why JGS has him at his side. He has taken him in because he is a steel-eyed murder bot, not in spite of it.

(OP does not believe that Jin Guangyao could have been a good person if only his dad had let him hold Jin Ling that one time, as some have argued. Dude killed his own child because there was a chance he might be disabled in a way that could lead to gossip. Dude is a stone cold killer.)

(more after the cut)

In the language of CDrama costume (which is not, precisely, the language of actual historical clothing), Jin Guangyao has chosen to dress as a minister instead of as a chevalier. This is partly an artifact of his mother's ideas about a gentleman. It also suggests that he’s content with the sort of career that's available to a bastard of a noble house--not inheriting the noble title, but having enough favor to rise in power.

It may also be a ruse to make him seem like he's not a strong cultivator and not a strong fighter, when in fact he is both, at least by the time he’s throwing death chords at Jiang Cheng, much later in the show.

Mingjue makes all kinds of grumpy faces and snarky remarks to let everyone know that he fucking hates Jin Guangyao. Xichen agrees to his “nice refugee camp with only a little death” plan, with no qualifications.

Now we get to see Jin Guangyao's manipulation of Lan Xichen. Lan Xichen says that Nie Mingjue wants a plan that’s more killy, because he believes in punishing evil. JGY deliberately misunderstands this, pretending that Lan Xichen said he, JGY, is evil, kind of forcing LXC to reassure him and take his side in an argument that isn’t actually happening.

They have a little handholding while bowing, and then after Lan Xichen leaves, Jin Guangyao puts on his evil face and has all the prisoners killed behind the big closed door.

This is done in such a violent fashion that the blood apparently flows up several stairs to the door, and over the tall raised threshold, before flowing downward toward the camera. Some evil is so extreme that even traditional Chinese doorway architecture can’t stop it.

Run To the Rock

Then we go outside to where Wei Wuxian is standing on a rocky outcropping, thinking it would be a good strategic spot to choose if he's ever in a battle where he wants to commit suicide right quick.

Lan Wangji comes to join him and admire the view, not knowing yet that this view, or one a whole lot like it, is going to be seared into his memory for most of his life.

Lan Wangji is becoming more and more committed to Wei Wuxian, more and more inexorably joined to him, but he still doesn't agree with him. So they each have this comfort in each others' presence at the same time as being massively in conflict.

Wei Wuxian asks him what he thinks of all the politicking and murdering. Who is good and who is evil? LWJ doesn't answer because WWX is leaking black smoke, so he grabs him and tells him to concentrate. Lan Wangji is, incidentally, wearing Princess-Leia quantities of lip gloss.

Lan Wangji asks if Wei Wuxian would like to learn a new tune, "Absterge" according to Netflix. The fuck? [op looks it up in the dictionary]. "To cleanse, especially by wiping." Also known as aftercare. Netflix. Honey. This word is MIDDLE FRENCH. Will you knock it the fuck off?

So anyway, instead of answering his question about who is good and who is evil, LWJ asks if he wants to learn a song called "Cleansing." Wei Wuxian says “hey babe, are you fucking kidding me?”

His actual words are "you doubt me too?" meaning "you think I also took the missing 4th chunk of Yin iron to make my ugly tiger amulet, rather than obviously having used that giant sword I pulled out of the turtle?"

Lan Wangji mentally replays Wen Ruohan's questions in his head--the questions he barked at Wei Wuxian right before choking him unconscious--which Lan Wangji also feels entitled to know the answers to. Fuck you, Lan Wangji. He answers WWX with "when did you forge your amulet?" Which is his way of saying "yes, I doubt you."

Wei Wuxian kindly refrains from saying "while we were on a break, bitch" and instead tells him the exact truth--I found a yin iron sword in the turtle--but says it in his patented "make it sound like a lie" way.

LWJ keeps grilling him, eventually coming out and saying dude, you knew the sword was Yin iron, why did you need to use it?

This is the crucial question--why WWX broke his first promise, to Lan Yi, which was to try to get rid of the Yin Iron. He won’t tell anyone the answer, which is that he needs to use it because he can't cultivate normally, because he lost his golden core. He made a lot of promises before that happened, and he probably expected to keep them. But without his core, everything changed; without his core, he’s a different person, so it’s maybe not fair to expect him to honor his previous promises.

I’m reminded of my grandfather, who was the oldest son of an old southern US family, with lots of expectations as the firstborn. He went off to WWI as a soldier, expecting to die. He didn’t die, and so from that point on, he regarded his life as a gift. He felt could do whatever he wanted with it, and let go of expectations from before the war. He moved to Paris and took up with a glamorous divorcee 7 years older than him (my Grandma, eventually).

The actual point of that story, other than OP having cool grandparents, is that when you think you’re going to die, and then you don’t die, your ideas about what you owe to people can change quite a bit. Wei Wuxian expected to die in the Burial Mounds; he expected to die at Nightless City; he expects it, over and over, and each time he doesn’t die, he gets further and further from being what everyone else wants him to be. And--a lot like soldiers returning from a war-- NOBODY in his life knows how to talk to him about it.

Wei Wuxian tells Lan Wangji to back off, Lan Wangji says why aren't you letting me help you, and they are once again on the edge of the same fight they keep having. Lan Wangji does some impassioned arm holding while Wei Wuxian says he's not like Wen Ruohan.

Romantic Duet #1

The argument is interrupted by screams and killing, so they go to check it out, and find the Jins hunting down some prisoners for sport. They arrive in time to save two people. Yay?

Jin ZIxun acts like a jerk, as always. The new element is that per Jin Guangshan, anyone concerned with Yin Iron shouldn't be alive. He says that the Lan and Nie clans agreed, and challenges Wei Wuxian. Lan Wangji stops him from responding, grabbing his wrist.

The Jins leave and Wei Wuxian refers back to their earlier conversation, saying there will be more resentful spirits now and that "Rest" is the music to play, not "Cleansing."

He gives Lan Wangji a long look and then pointedly removes Lan Wangji’s hand from his wrist, by holding his hand, which is some next-level mixed signaling. Lan Wangji totally deserves it at this point, though. He keeps pushing and pushing WWX about his cultivation method, but he refuses to discuss the underlying morality of it, or the morality of the killing going on right in front of them.

WWX walks off, leaving LWJ to stew in his own juices surrounded by a bunch of fresh corpses.

Lan Wangji fails his saving throw against the guilt trip, and sits his ass down to play Rest, just like Wei Ying told him to. So switchy! Wei Wuxian, out of sight but not out of earshot, hears him and accompanies him on Chenqing.

This scene is slightly ridiculous and a whole lot sublime. Ridiculous because it's their first time playing music together, so it's a super slow, romantic, extended scene, but they're surrounded by corpses. And not the helpful, friendly, third-wheel-on-a-date type of corpses.

It's sublime because the occasion of their first beautiful, literally magical duet is an argument. And they are joining together to play beautiful romantic music - as a service for the dead. And they are doing it while they are on literally opposite sides of a literal killing field. And Lan Wangji is sitting literally in the middle of a wide open road; the sort of road that they will both reject, metaphorically, later in the show. There is so much about their conflict and their journey that is encapsulated in this one musical moment.

Lan Wangji, by playing the song Wei Wuxian said was needed, is telling WWX that he took his words to heart, that he is listening, even though they're at odds.

WWX, by stopping and playing with him, is acknowledging this. And by settling the dead souls together, they are both reinforcing their dedication to doing what's right even as they both struggle with knowing what that is.

When Other Friendships Have Been Forgot, Ours Will Still Be Hot

Now we have the sworn brothers thing. I understand, plot wise, why this has to happen, but why would Nie Mingjue ever agree to this? Lan Xichen's puppy eyes are just that persuasive?

If they ever crack your spine, drop a line If they ever cut your throat, write a note If you’re ever in a mill and get sawed in half, I won’t laugh (HA HA HA HA)

Tedious Party Time

Now there's a cultivation party, which is about as excruciating to watch as it would be to attend.

Everyone is lining up to praise Jin Guangshan. To be fair, he did provide shelter for most of the smaller clans while the war was going on. So being grateful is appropriate, but Clan Leader Yao practically breaks his own neck kissing Jin ass. Yao says JGY’s contribution was the greatest of the war, adding, "fuck Wei Wuxian; everything is his fault."

The Jiangs show up wearing mourning belts that show off their itty bitty waists, and Jin Guangshan makes shifty eyes like a cartoon landlord when he sees them arrive.

JGS praises Jiang Cheng, and asks when his fancy clan-leader ceremony is going to happen. Jiang Cheng says he's still in mourning so it's not appropriate. JGS is like “Oh...yeah," as if he totally forgot about all the Yunmeng slaughter, and talks up his friendship with Jiang Fengmian. He acts comforting while WWX manages not to barf.

Then the Lan clan shows up and there is nice encouraging chit chat between LXC and JC...

...and just, SO MUCH mournful staring between Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian.

Then the Nies arrive. Jin Guangshan tells Nie Mingjue he's late, and that everyone's waiting for him. That might be true in the script but it’s clearly bullshit on the screen, where the Lans and the Jiangs are still milling around looking for the coat room.

Nie Mingjue--who, let's remember, JUST swore to be brothers with Jin Guangyao--looks at him like he's something that fell off a garbage truck. Lan Xichen jumps in to maximize the discomfort by pointing out that Jin Guangyao should address Nie Mingjue as Big Daddy Da-ge from now on.

Then the Jins offer Nie Mingjue the giant fire throne because...he's the leader of the Sunshot campaign, I guess? Of course it's all a manipulation tactic, designed to make him say he won't sit there, so that JGS can elevate himself to head cultivator, or something? And sit in front of the throne but not on it? Cultivator succession seems kinda arbitrary.

I swear to god, it wasn't until I was clipping this episode that I realized Wen Ruohan had two thrones and they're in different rooms from each other.

Finally everyone goes to sit down, but because there hasn't been enough fucking awkwardness, JGY stops WWX to ask him what's on his mind. WWX asks him why he's not carrying his sword, which made me laugh and laugh. Wei Wuxian must have been just waiting for a chance to ask someone else that question for a change.

Jin Guangyao says he threw it away, because it was just a random sword, but he really means he had it made into a sneaky murder belt, that he will be using again in 13 to 16 years. They both fake-laugh and trade Mean Girls insults pretend to like each other.

Everyone wanders around toasting each other. Lan Wangji goes to find Wei Wuxian, after first making sure that his hair looks good.

Wei Wuxian is lying around on the steps, sprawling and drinking wine, and not, incidentally, looking for Lan Wangji. He continues to not seek him out and Lan Wangji continues to chase after him.

Wei Wuxian says "how about playing Cleansing?" but Lan Wangji says he's learning a new score. It looks like it's going to be another argument, but then Wei Wuxian smiles and kind of praises Lan Wangji for being stubborn.

Awkward Marriage Proposal

Just then everyone inside starts cheering for Jin Guangshan to give a speech. Jin Guangshan is making a move to marry Jiang Yanli to his son, which is a big time power grab, given that the Jiang Clan is 1. vulnerable and depleted 2. has control of the Yin tiger amulet.

We get a very rare glimpse into Jiang Cheng’s inner mind, where he thinks that saying yes isn’t a great idea, but isn’t sure what to do. This marriage would make his sister happy, but could destroy the Jiang Clan's independence.

Fortunately, Wei Wuxian joins the party just in time to fuck up Jin Guanshan’s plans. Will this teach Jin Guangshan not to invite Wei Wuxian to parties? It will not.

Soundtrack: Friendship, by Cole Porter (from “Anything Goes”)

Bonus:

#the untamed #the untamed gifs #wangxian #restless rewatch the untamed #canary3d-original #my gifs #words:2750

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ouyangzizhensdad · 4 years

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Phoenix Mountain Kiss and Consent/Boundaries in MDZS

The following opinion, expressed in the recent mdzs controversial opinion thread on twitter, is actually one I’ve meant to address for a while:

Even if most of fans loves the 'stolen kiss scene' in the Phoenix Mountain in the novel, that was a sexual harassment.

People in the fandom, especially those who were introduced first to the novel through cql, have a tendency to criticize the Phoenix Mountain kiss scene, saying it was non-consensual. My problem is not that they are wrong. The kiss is (or starts as, at the very least) non-consensual. My problem with this criticism is that people point this out as if it were a mistake. As if mxtx had meant to write a romantic kiss and had instead fumbled it all up and made it not consensual by virtue of not being woke, not being a good enough writer, or being too influenced by bl tropes. And that readers are too unsuspecting or not educated enough to realize the wrong mxtx committed.

Here’s my hot take: The kiss is non-consensual because it was written to be non-consensual. mxtx is not trying to pull the wool over our eyes. The reason why we, as readers, can infer that, is because the non-consensual aspects of the kiss are important to the events of the plot, some of themes explored in the book, lwj and wwx’s relationship after wwx’s return, and lwj’s character arc. mxtx uses this moment and its aftermaths, amongst others, to make a point about consent and communication in relationships--one of the central themes of the novel. Shocking, I know. Arguing that consent and communication are a main theme in mdsz: now that's a controversial opinion.

Now, I won’t argue mxtx always manages to develop this theme with utmost finesse. You can critique and disagree with her treatment of the theme throughout the novel (taking into consideration, as well, how it’s not just explored through lwj and wwx’s relationship). That being said, isolating events in the novel like the Phoenix kiss scene to mark them as Good or Bad without considering the context in which they happen and are explored within the novel is just bad literary analysis :/.

Let’s first consider this simple statement: the non-consensual aspect of the kiss is not accidental--mxtx knew it was non-consensual when she wrote it, and she wasn’t trying to hide that fact.

By the time we reach the Phoenix Mountain competition, lwj has accepted his feelings for wwx, and that these feelings will not be returned. After all, in the xuanwu cave, wwx took great pains to ‘reassure’ him that he is super-straight-and-totally-would-never-flirt-with-him. Yet, wwx continues to ‘flirt’ with him--tossing a flower at him just before the competition--which we can gather is a source of, um, great torment for him.

We are not privy to lwj’s thought process leading to the stolen kiss. What we know for certain, however, is how he reacts to and perceives his own actions after the fact. Through wwx’s unreliable narration, we can still understand that lwj immediately regrets his actions and feels uncontrollable anger towards himself and his lack of self-restraint. While wwx has more complicated and contradictory feelings bout the kiss, lwj clearly sees his actions as wrong and disrespectful. He is scared of what he has been capable of doing unto another person--pushing wwx away the moment he sees him after the kiss.

The person spun around. It was Lan Wangji after all. However, right now, his eyes were bloodshot, his expression almost frightening. Wei Wuxian was startled, “Wow, so scary.”

Lan Wangji’s voice was harsh, “Go!”

Wei Wuxian, “I just came here and you want me to go. Do you really hate me that much?”

Lan Wangji, “Stay away from me!” [chapter 69]

As readers, we are told that the Phoenix Mountain kiss, nor its implications, is not something to consider lightly. The fact that lwj’s reaction after the kiss is written in, and that it is so intense for someone usually so reserved, or the fact that we learn that more than a decade later he is still ashamed of himself and describe himself as having done something wrong (or, very wrong 很不对 ), all prove that the non-consensual aspect of the kiss is not an accident and is not downplayed as something to expect from someone in love with another person.

蓝忘机闷声道：“我，那时，自知不对。很不对。” [chapter 111]

I can already hear some people ask: even if it was not an accident, why chose to include a non-consensual kiss between the two romantic leads? if not because it is a bl trope/weird kink, why did mxtx chose to put this in her novel? what do we gain by including dubious consent or non-consensual interactions in our fiction?

The long-short answer is: because the act of crossing boundaries is a very productive story-telling device for any piece of media focusing on any type of interpersonal relationships. Crossing boundaries--willfully or unintentionally--is a source of conflict, internal and/or relational, which can drive the plot forward, shape character development and relationships, as well as be useful for certain thematic discussions.

Current discourses regarding consent in English-speaking, mostly-western spheres of the web tend to be very polarized, painting people who cross boundaries as bad. The solution presented (i.e. how to not be a bad person) tends to be an invitation for everyone, within any relationship, to constantly negotiate consent verbally and honestly: to constantly disclose boundaries, to constantly ask for permission, etc. While I do not dismiss the value of these suggestions, it is an ideal representative of certain socio-temporally specific cultural expectations of what communication is, how communication should happen, and how relationships should be like, etc.. Human relationships are messy, people are flawed and hurt each other, and we have complex internal lives (for instance, someone might not realize their wants or limits until they are faced with them). Instead of having media show us only a specific type of idealized relationships where boundaries are never crossed, ever, they allow us to explore the implications of boundaries within interpersonal relationships. Or, sometimes, media and fiction just aim to represent or are influenced by this very real part of human relationships, and use it as a way to create conflict within the narrative and relationships (sometimes in a interesting manner, sometimes in a very gross manner).

In mdsz, the Phoenix mountain non-consensual kiss is a two-fold source of conflict: internal (lwj) and relational. While wwx remains unaware until he and lwj are together of the identity of the person who kissed him, the implications of the kiss ends up shaping their relationship both before and after wwx’s rebirth.

A source of (unknown) conflict between lwj and wwx after he is summoned back from the dead is the fact that lwj believes wwx is aware of his feelings. But this conflict is further compounded by the fact that lwj has once forced his feelings unto wwx, and is utterly afraid that he would dare to ever do it again. That is why, every time wwx initiates physical contact, or flirts very deliberately with lwj, lwj never goes further than what wwx has initiated. Sometimes, he even de-escalates their proximity or level of intimacy (usually by asking wwx to “ 别乱动” or, famously during Drunk#2, by literally knocking himself out) --out of fear that he, again, would lack self-control and do something wrong to the man he loved. He never presumes he has the permission to push their relationship further than what wwx is offering. Without that added source of conflict, would it have been reasonable to expect lwj and wwx to have realized their mutual feelings earlier, even with the issue of lwj not being aware wwx does not know of his feelings?

“In the beginning, the reason for behaving in such a manner was to let Lan Wangji be disgusted with him and kick him out of the Cloud Recesses, and they would never have to meet again, going their separate ways. Lan Wangji couldn’t possibly tell what his real intentions were. Yet, [..] even when faced with Wei Wuxian’s various actions, tricks, and pranks, Lan Wangji never once lost his temper, reciprocating with restraint and courtesy.” [chapter 99]

That is all true, of course, until Drunk 3. Here again, the ghost of the stolen kiss plays a part in accentuating the conflict. Without it, would lwj have jumped to conclusions as quickly? And, plot-wise, the shared perception of wwx and lwj that they have taken advantage of the other is a source of conflict that does multiple things--it gives wwx an incentive to go look at the temple at night to distract himself from his guilt and sadness, instead of going the next day with lwj (at which point jgy would have had perhaps already left) and it keeps wwx in the dark about lwj’s feelings until lxc reveals to him the events of the past he has forgotten. Here again, issues of consent are clearly taken into consideration as a source of conflict, shaping both characters’ motivations and the events of the plot.

Finally, the theme of consent/boundaries is an important aspect of lwj’s internal struggle, particularly in relation to his father’s choices. The kiss is part of his journey.

It is not coincidental that the Lan motto is “Be Honorable”/”Self-restraint,” and that lwj is presented as the model Lan disciple. This element is part of the context that gives narrative and thematic meaning to the non-consensual kiss. When lwj forces a kiss on a blindfolded wwx, lwj goes against the values he holds dear and the teachings that were imparted unto him--prime internal conflict.

But what is also interesting, to me in any case, is how consent is the thing that ultimately differentiates lwj’s choices from his father’s.

How willing was Lan-furen to be saved by Qingheng-jun? to be taken to live in seclusion in the Cloud Recesses? to be married to him? to have children with him? The novel never tells us clearly. However, the novel gives us an idea of how lqr, lxc and lwj perceive their parents’ relationship. For lwj, we are given an insight into his perception indirectly during the following conversation between him and lxc.

[Lan Xichen] spoke, “Wangji, is there something on your mind? Why have you been so tense?”

Of course, in most people’s eyes, the ‘tenseness’ probably looked no different than Lan Wangji’s other expressions.

Lan Wangji’s brows sunk low as he shook his head. A few moments later, he replied in a low voice, “Brother, I want to take someone back to the Cloud Recesses.”

Lan Xichen was surprised. “Take someone back to the Cloud Recesses?”

Lan Wangji nodded, his expression pensive. After a pause, he continued, “Take them back… and hide them somewhere.”

Lan Xichen’s eyes immediately widened.

[…]

“Hide them somewhere?”

Lan Wangji frowned softly. “But they are not willing.” [chapter 72]

Indirectly, we come to understand that lwj draws parallels with his father situation: they both want to protect someone by taking them to the Cloud Recesses, but these persons are unwilling. The unsaid question here is, would I choose to do as our father did?

The non-consensual kiss is part of lwj’s journey, through which he comes to understand that, despite his strict upbringing and disciplined lifestyle that was supposed to keep him from becoming like his father, he is capable of being his father (or at least who he thinks his father is). He learns that he can understand what sort of passionate feelings could bring someone to do something that goes against not only the wishes of his clan members, but the very wishes of the person they love, for the sake of keeping them safe or for the sake of having them by their sides. And at the end of that internal journey, lwj chooses not be like his father--to put wwx’s decisions and wants and needs first. After buyetian, lwj offers his protection and confesses his feelings--and wwx rejects him. lwj respects wwx’s choice, while still going against his clan to protect him. He brings wwx back to Mass Grave Hill knowing full well that wwx would not survive long the wrath of the four great sects seeking revenge against him, and goes home to receive his punishment.

Overall, what I tried to say in many many words, is that the Phoenix Mountain kiss is not non-consensual by accident. It is not because mxtx is an awful person or is not educated enough, or because she thinks dubious consent is romantic. The fact that it is non-consensual is addressed within the narrative, fuels internal and external conflicts, and is as well woven into the plot structure and the themes of the novel. The kiss is not an outlier element, added to titillate a readership--it exists as an integral part of the novel.

I’m not saying it’s not okay to decide that you do not want to engage with any content that includes non-consensual interactions or dubious consent because that triggers or irks you regardless of the way it is handled. It is totally valid to not personally enjoy or have criticisms about choices mxtx made in exploring these themes, in presenting the internal and relational conflicts around consent/boundaries, or even in the way she decided to write the scenes that figure dubious consent. However, it is not really helpful to divorce an event from its context within a piece of media in order to brand it as either Problematic or Unproblematic, Good or Bad.

Note: Much more could be said about the theme of consent/boundaries in mdzs; this is not exhaustive in the least.

Note2: Much more could be said, in relation to the question and theme of consent, about: the cultural limitations of Westerners to engage fully with a text written for a chinese audience; the limits of fan translators to fully understand the nuances and themes of a novel and to communicate them in a different language; about the place dubious consent and non-consensual interactions has had in the romance/erotica genre for a long time, and no, not only because Misogyny or Homophobia.

#re: controversial mdzs opinion twitter thread #mdzs #mdzs meta #excuse my english lmao #wangxian #this is 2k i'm sorry

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ibijau · 3 years

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I guess the question I have for the nhs is a half demon au is: what reason are we going to give for lxc to marry him after he comes back from visiting his mom? Also is he going to save wwx?

wwx did well for himself while nhs was off to live his little demon life, but he is the first person nhs visits upon returning among humans, because he's heard some concerning rumours...

On AO3

Small feet ran to the entrance of the cave, only slowing down at the very last moment and stopping just shy of actually coming in.

“Xian-gege, there’s a person at the gate,” Wen Yuan announced, careful to not actually shout.

Wei Wuxian smiled to himself, proud as always of this most excellent young boy he was helping raise, who obeyed rules much better than Wei Wuxian himself had ever done in his life.

“What sort of person?” Wei Wuxian asked, still hunched over his latest prototype. He was getting somewhere with this, he knew it. He just had to figure out how to…

“It’s an odd person,” Wen Yuan announced. “He says he’s here to see you.”

That was hardly news. Most of the visitors they'd had these last five years had come to the Burial Mounds to see Wei Wuxian. Sometimes, Lan Xichen would also come to see his brother and give them money. And in recent months, some people from the area had started coming to see Wen Qing in hopes she might cure them. But still, people mostly came for Wei Wuxian, either because they wanted to kill him, or because they wanted to join him. Either way, they were usually rejected.

“Did that man give his name?”

“He didn’t,” Wen Yuan announced, sounding indignant that anyone would be so rude. “He says you have to come see him, and then you’ll know him, and you’ll let him in. He sounded very sure.”

That intrigued Wei Wuxian enough to make him look up from his work and walk up to join Wen Yuan. A lot of people knew him, but there weren’t that many he knew, few of which would be sure to be allowed on the Burial Mounds, fewer still who would wish to be there at all. Jiang Cheng was the only person that came to mind, but he’d been around a few times in the years since Wei Wuxian had left Yunmeng Jiang, and Wen Yuan knew him well. Who else, then?

“That man, did he have any trouble walking?”

Wen Yuan shook his head. So it couldn’t be Jin Zixuan then. With his wooden leg, the climb to the gate would have been difficult anyway, and he would not have come unannounced.

“What did he look like?” Wei Wuxian asked, growing puzzled enough to consider meeting the stranger.

“He has a nice face, but it’s weird because of his eyes,” Wen Yuan said. “And he’s dressed with very good fabric, even better than Jiang-gege. And there’s a lot of teeth when he smiles.”

Without a word, Wei Wuxian started walking, with Wen Yuan following him. He didn’t like that description at all. He had hardly met him personally, but he’d heard about that boy in the Jin sect, that Xue Yang who was apparently trying to reproduce some of Wei Wuxian’s creations, with some success. He had an odd smile, Lan Xichen had said once when talking about him, so maybe…

“Oh, and there’s one more thing,” Wen Yuan said, slapping the side of his head. “I should have said first! But he has a mark on his forehead, it’s very red and looks a bit like a flame.”

Wei Wuxian froze.

“Xian-gege?”

“Go get Lan Zhan,” Wei Wuxian ordered. “Tell him there’s an emergency and I need him at the gate immediately. Wen Ning too. And tell Wen Qing to take everyone else to the hideout. No matter what, none of you are coming out until we come to get you. Go! Now!”

Frightened to see him so serious, Wen Yuan didn’t ask any question and scampered away as fast as his legs would take him. Wei Wuxian for his part hurried toward the gate after having made sure he had everything he’d need for a fight, knowing thing might turn vicious if he was right. He cursed as he walked, and hoped to be wrong about the identity of their visitor.

When he reached the gate and saw the man standing there, Wei Wuxian almost believed for a second that he’d been wrong indeed. The stranger, who had his back to the gate, was too tall, his shoulders too broad. But then, hearing that someone was approaching, the man turned to look at Wei Wuxian, and there was no mistake possible.

“Wei-xiong, it’s been a while,” Nie Huaisang said, smiling as if they were old friends who hadn’t seen each other for a few years. “You look worse than I remembered, but better than I expected.”

“Nie-xiong, it’s pretty bold of you to come here after what you’ve done,” Wei Wuxian retorted. “Couldn’t you have made it easier for everyone and stayed dead?”

Nie Huaisang's smile got wider, showing just a little more teeth than a mortal's would have. He looked better than he'd done last time Wei Wuxian had seen him. Healthier and a lot more confident. And why not? Last they'd been around each other, Nie Huaisang had been terrified someone might try to kill him, but he'd now proved just how difficult that would be.

“I would have, but some news reached me that forced me to rejoin the human world after all these years. Wei-xiong, won’t you let me in?”

“I hope you understand why I’d rather not. You have a history of slaughtering people I’d rather not see repeated.”

Nie Huaisang frowned and pinched his lips, looking almost sincerely hurt by the reminder of his past deeds.

“I’ve been told your shijie recovered,” he said in a softer tone, sounding more like the boy Wei Wuxian had studied with in Gusu. “And that Jin Zixuan too is… well, he’s alive, right? Don’t they even have a son?”

“They’re both doing as well as they can, no thanks to you.”

Again, Nie Huaisang looked wounded by the accusation. Wei Wuxian remembered how his old friend had been after the reveal of his true nature, the way he’d desperately tried to hide what he was, the terror he’d expressed in every letter they had exchanged… Still, what had been done couldn’t be changed, and Wei Wuxian hadn’t survived this long by trusting just anyone.

If anything, it was Nie Huaisang’s example who had taught him to be wary.

“Wei-xiong, you remember when we were in the Cloud Recesses together, and we made realgar wine a little before you were kicked out?” Nie Huaisang suddenly asked and though surprised by the change of topic, Wei Wuxian nodded. “All the other Nie disciples with us were quite stunned,” Nie Huaisang reminisced with a sad smile. “They’d never seen me drunk before. It’s a skill I’ve always had, though nobody at home really knew why. I can eat anything, drink anything, and never get sick… anything but realgar, which affects me badly, I’ve found since.”

Without thinking, Wei Wuxian nodded again. Realgar was used to ward off evil, and it was said to have a particularly strong effect on demons. That particular time, Nie Huaisang had only had one small sip because he’d found the smell of realgar wine unpleasant, and just that single sip had made him violently sick, and so irritable he'd bitten Jiang Cheng who'd only wanted to check on him… though of course most people would be in a bad mood after vomiting that much. At the time, none of them had thought there was anything odd with that.

Yet if he’d had more wine than that, Nie Huaisang might have died, or attacked his friends.

“It wasn’t the time of year for realgar wine,” Wei Wuxian noted, feeling himself grow more curious than angry. “So find a better excuse.”

“It wasn’t the season for it, and I didn’t notice the difference in smell,” Nie Huaisang agreed. “But the person who helped me recover from my wounds assured me that my blood was tainted by realgar, and I’ve learned since that there are ways to cover the taste, or to increase the effect. And Jin Zixun was ever so insistent on making me drink that day. Funny, when we’d never been close. Or indeed when I had been promised that he wouldn’t be there, since I didn’t much care for him.”

It was something that had always puzzled them indeed. Not just Wei Wuxian, but Lan Wangji too, and even Jin Zixuan and Jiang Yanli when they’d had a chance to speak about that. As far as everyone had known, Jin Zixun had been in hiding at that time, terrified that Wei Wuxian might try to kill him for what he’d done to Wen Ning and his family. And Jin Zixun had been quite vocal regarding what he thought should be done to Nie Huaisang, too.

Odd that he’d come to a Night Hunt where were present not only Wei Wuxian’s beloved shijie, but also the terrifying demon that terrorized everyone.

It sounded a lot braver than Jin Zixun had ever been known to be.

“It’s easy to blame a dead man,” Wei Wuxian remarked.

“And it’s easy to blame a demon,” Nie Huaisang retorted. “Especially for someone who’d have the demon’s trust. Funny also how this incident ensured that Qinghe Nie became isolated and despised, just when it was considered the one sect which might have stood against Lanling Jin’s ambitions.”

Wei Wuxian shrugged. He’d personally also profited quite a bit from this conflict between the Nies and the Jins.

It had distracted everyone from what he was doing in Yiling. By the time the Jins had emerged fully victorious from that political battle, Wei Wuxian’s presence in the Burial Mound had been secure, while the Jins had been too busy securing their new power to think of attacking him. Besides, with him no longer part of Yunmeng Jiang and thus not involved in politics, and with his actions having made it clear that he wasn’t a threat, everyone had found it easier to leave him alone. Sometimes someone would still wonder if he should be annihilated, but a few words from Lan Xichen or Jiang Cheng seemed to usually be enough to put an end to that, at least for now.

Everyone might start thinking differently if he associated with a demon though.

“Supposing I believe you,” Wei Wuxian said, and he was ready enough to believe Nie Huaisang, demon or not. “I’m not sure what I can do for you.”

“Don’t think of it as you doing something for me, Wei-xiong. Think of it as the two of us teaming up to protect our families. You see, demons gossip just as much as mortals do, and I’ve been hearing a few worrying things while living with them. There’s a reason I know your shijie has a son, you see.”

Wei Wuxian shivered, but before he could ask for details, Wen Ning and Lan Wangji arrived at last. They were both stunned to see Nie Huaisang, though Lan Wangji had to be the more shocked of the two, since he would actually recognise the young man, while Wen Ning had never met him before.

Smiling faintly, Nie Huaisang bowed elegantly to the two newcomers, as if this were but an ordinary meeting between old friends.

“Lan gongzi, I did not expect you had really come to live here!” Nie Huaisang exclaimed with something like real joy. “I suppose gossip these days carries more truth than I’d have expected.”

“Fine, I’ll bite,” Wei Wuxian said. “What have you heard about my shijie and her son?”

“Let me come in,” Nie Huaisang replied. “And then we can talk.”

It felt like a trap, and maybe it was one.

Even after having disappeared for years, Nie Huaisang knew Wei Wuxian’s weaknesses. It had been a mistake perhaps to write to him back then, to confide in him, to stay his friend when the rest of the world shunned him… but Wei Wuxian too had needed a friend after the Sunshot Campaign, and Nie Huaisang had never judged him for what he’d done, not even before his demon blood was revealed.

This was a mistake.

And yet, Wei Wuxian opened the gate.

#nie huaisang #wei wuxian #demon nhs #mo dao zu shi #mdzs #jau writes #I am procrastinating on so much shit lol #so y'all get this

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crossdressingdeath · 3 years

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I know you'll probably disagree with me, but i rlly hate the Cloud recessess ending. It's just....

Those elders killed wwx. The Lans were 100% ready to murder both at Qiongqi path but also at the siege. They see him as the guy who corrupted their precious jade. They all preach righteousness, but the whole madam Lan thing is iffy at best and i do not believe that everyone there fully believes the rules. Hell, i have a special bone to pick with the " do not gossip" rule, seeing as gossip had been the main info route for women in patriarchal societies.

I just don't think that after wwx killed Lans in the siege they'd be all that willing to forgive him and take him in w open arms. The juniors and kids love him, yes, but people who saw the war....

Not to mention the whole " do not speak to WWX " rule. I've seen ppl say it's a joke but it's On The Wall. It's supposed to be followed. Even if it was intended as a joke - which i don't believe - it's very cruel for someone w rejection and trust issues.

I also hate it from a very personal perspective. I see Wwx as ND, and, as an ND myself, all those rules terrify me. From the no running and the proper posture ones, i can pretty well imagine they forbid stimming. The Lan curfew would fuck anyone with insomnia and there's smth deeply ucked up abt the " do not grieve in excess". I get that they're supossed to be a paragon of the best things at all time, and that LJY is very UnLan like, but for someone w anxiety who CAN'T follow those rules, it would be a nightmare.

...Some points:

First, the Lan elders did not kill WWX, nor did they attack him unfairly. They weren’t looking at him as the man who corrupted LWJ, either, or at least that wasn’t their primary concern (I will never forgive CQL for suggesting they were or it was); they were looking at him as a traitor to the sects who was raising an army to destroy them. Remember, that is the information the Lans had. Every source they had except for LWJ (who the people he would have gone to would have known was biased and who presumably everyone knew had recently been in close contact with WWX where he could have been manipulated or enchanted in some way), sources which included multiple sect leaders (one of whom was WWX’s brother) and LXC’s dear friend, swore up and down that WWX was a major threat, and let’s face it, WWX didn’t do much to dissuade people from thinking that! Acting like the Lans were maliciously targeting WWX is doing them something of a disservice, I’d say. They acted based on the knowledge they had available; note how the Lans are the first to offer WWX their help once they’re given reason to believe he may not be a villain! And even aside from that, saying they killed WWX (and not JGS and JGY’s manipulation or JC’s army) feels a bit like scapegoating, honestly. Of the four sects, the Lans are quite possibly the least responsible for WWX’s death. If it would hurt him to live with or around anyone who held any responsibility for his death his only option would be to live as a hermit, which would be far worse for him. And yeah, the Lans aren’t perfectly righteous all the time and some morally dubious things have been done by Lan sect members; they’re human, after all! Some of them will only be as moral as their sect leader demands they be! That doesn’t mean the sect as a whole is bad, especially with LXC, LQR and LWJ in charge. Certainly I’d say they’re still better than the other sects, all things considered. One ambiguous situation that may or may not have involved some members of the previous generation doing some fucked up shit doesn’t mean WWX would for sure be mistreated!

As for gossip... there’s a difference between sharing information and gossiping. There’s no evidence that the Lan women are blocked from... y’know, freely communicating and sharing information between themselves. We have no reason to believe they are reliant on gossip. Also they presumably go out night hunting just like the men? Men and women are kept separate in the Cloud Recesses, but I get the sense that that’s more like... school stuff than anything else. The women aren’t exactly locked up, they can be cultivators! The society is still sexist, but that doesn’t mean they’re kept from going out and doing things. And I need to make this clear: there is a fair chance that the rule against gossip saved LWJ’s life, because it kept word of him defending WWX from the sects from spreading to people who would not be willing to let bygones be bygones. Gossip sucks! It hurts people! A lot of this story (and more to the point the suffering of the characters within the story) happens because of gossip! The Lans banning gossip is pretty clearly supposed to be a good thing, I’d say.

And yeah, maybe after WWX killed a bunch of their sect the Lans wouldn’t accept him with open arms as if nothing ever happened! And that’s fair! I can’t imagine where WWX could go where that wouldn’t be the case, unless he and LWJ chose to abandon the cultivation world forever. But you know what else the Lans won’t do? Try to execute him. Or from what we see in the extras even dwell on the past that much. No, the Lans aren’t going to immediately forgive WWX and bring him into the fold without a moment’s hesitation, but you know what? They accept his marriage to LWJ! They let him supervise the juniors on night hunts! They consider him part of their sect! Honestly, that is all WWX can really ask and far more than he’d get from any other sect. There are consequences for what WWX did, even though he wasn’t the villain or necessarily trying to hurt anyone, and frankly people not being entirely comfortable with his presence is very much reasonable.

The “do not speak to WWX” rule may not be a joke, but it’s also pretty clearly not a serious rule. No one takes it seriously. The juniors (the only people WWX really talks to anyway aside from LXC and LWJ) only pay it the minimum lip service of talking to him off the path. WWX himself sure as hell doesn’t care! He clearly finds it pretty damn funny. And I don’t think a guy who has never liked him once again proving he does not like him (in a way that is clearly temporary given how later LQR invites WWX to the Lan family banquet with... reasonable amounts of grace, thereby implicitly accepting him as LWJ’s husband and therefore his own family by marriage) counts as a rejection or a breach of WWX’s trust? Like, LQR has literally always hated WWX. He isn’t preventing WWX and LWJ from spending time together or shutting WWX out of the Cloud Recesses or even making a concentrated effort to keep people from talking to him; he’s venting his frustrations, but if he really intended to block WWX from taking part in life in the Cloud Recesses he would’ve done a hell of a lot more than just make a rule who no one WWX likes follows anyway. It’s a temper tantrum, that’s all, and clearly that’s what WWX takes it as. I mean, if nothing else you can’t ban people from talking to the sect heir’s spouse indefinitely. That’s just not sustainable.

As for the rules... banning people from running in the Cloud Recesses and demanding proper posture during lessons doesn’t suggest to me that they wouldn’t allow stimming? ‘No running’ at least is a common rule... most places. It’s distracting, and can be dangerous. And the rule about sitting properly doesn’t mean “Don’t move at all ever”; it means... well, “sit properly”. Don’t slouch or sprawl across the floor. I see no reason why that wouldn’t preclude means of stimming that wouldn’t be disruptive (and given this is in a classroom environment “not disruptive” is kind of important). I mean, those rules certainly don’t suggest that they’re any worse than other sects, and given this is the sect that has magic music for calming people’s minds if any sect would give allowances for neurodivergence it would be this one. Also I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a song to put people to sleep, or medication that can help; this is a world with magic, after all, and if there’s a song that can put spirits to rest there are probably songs for human medicine and care. And of course there’s an element of conflicting needs; maybe the rules would screw you over, but frankly firmly enforced rules keeping people from running around or sprawling out of their seats would’ve been a godsend for me in school, given how much trouble I had focusing with people making noise around me. At the end of the day, is it guaranteed that the Lans would make allowances for people with needs that conflict with the Lan rules? No. But I’d argue it’s more likely that they would than any other sect. This is ahistorical fantasy ancient China, too; you can only expect so much in the mental health department. Still, a sect that literally invented magic music for calming the mind actually seems like the best choice for people with anxiety and such. There’s a reason why there are multiple fics that essentially set the Lans up as mental health experts in the setting!

Basically, a lot of your arguments seem to be issues that WWX would have in any sect. Unless he wanted to give up on the support of a sect altogether, they’re all things that he would have to work through or come to terms with. And of course... the most important point is that WWX is happy in the Lan sect. The extras make that clear. He has a home, duties that he enjoys performing, the love of his family and the support of his sect. He’s happy. I just... I do not understand why people keep feeling the need to try to make it angsty when the novel makes it clear that he genuinely enjoys his life in Gusu, and more than that that if he ever decided he didn’t enjoy it he could leave at any time. You have to remember that: if WWX wanted to leave... he would. He and LWJ would just go, and only come back occasionally so that LWJ could visit his home. Hell, LWJ would insist on leaving for WWX’s sake. So like... the Lan sect wouldn’t suit everyone, but WWX is quite content there and doesn’t want to leave. He’s happy and free to come and go as he wishes; there really isn’t anything to be concerned about there.

#mdzs #wei wuxian #anon #asks

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paradife-loft · 4 years

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1&2 for general, ships, characters & story

General

1. If you had to join a sect, which would you join?

Ahahaha oh, oh no, the difficult question!!! *covers face*

Tbh I would. join the Lan sect and then be like, the most problematic Lan ever to Lan XD (”But James, don’t you have a reflexive fight me!!! response to rules and authority....?” yes maybe so shush now that’s why I said problematic.)

Like the thing is. I DO like being a nerd, and I DO like the idea of cultivating with music certainly moreso than with swords look I do not enjoy physical exertion a lot of the time, and I semi-regularly become full of emotion and start wailing to whoever’s nearby about wanting to live in somewhere as beautiful as the Cloud Recesses??? It is SO lovely there. Also the only other option I was considering, the Jiang, tbh gives me the impression that I would die miserably of humidity in Yunmeng sooooo :/

But also for real I am... a lot more chill with following rules when I agree with them about their purpose being to better you ethically and also to form a cohesive community, and I’ve chosen to adhere to them by my own will? Uhh, demonstrably lmao. But yeah I’d definitely still be Arguing about things and eating hot peppers in Caiyi town and playing the “it’s not really drinking if you neutralise the alcohol” game ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

2. Your three favorite characters?

*lies dramatically on the ground* How am I supposed to pick just threeeeee???

But ok, so, Jin Guangyao, and then *spins the roulette wheel for today’s picks* probably Lan Xichen and Wei Wuxian, averaged out?? But I have a lot of feelings about Everyone ;u;

Ships

1. What’s your OTP?

*chinhands* Surely we all know this by now :P

2. What’s your NOTP? Or any other ship you hate?

Uhhhhh hhhhhhh hahaha ngl I usually feel guilty talking about notps in public??? Probably bc often as not it’s more about “90% of the content I see in the fandom is relatively fluffy and/or mundane and/or lacking in meaty conflict and therefore bores me to tears” oops.

But I will say tbh that I have a pretty visceral unhappy NOPE reaction to LXC/NHS in. Probably 95% of contexts ever. Unless I feel particularly into reading, like, sex-as-self-harm fic on any given day, lmao.

Characters

1. If you could date any character from MDZS, who would you pick?

Lol, none of them.

2. If you had to kill a character, who would you kill?

Save a sex worker or POW, toss JGS off a cliff :) (predictable answer but hey) (I mean, this is distinct from an answer to “who would I kill at a point in the story prior to their actual death,” but. I would be remiss at existing if I didn’t take the opportunity to say I would kill JGS given the slightest excuse.)

Story

1. If you could make one major story change, what change would you make? Why?

Ahhhh, hell. Actually, you know what? I would slightly revamp Qin Su’s character to have her be aware of her parentage since roughly the same time as JGY is, and have them both separately keeping that a secret from one another for roughly the same reasons. She’s disturbed by the letter from Bicao simply because of the implications around someone wanting to make this knowledge public. (On the other hand: she DOES still ask JGY about how Rusong died, and IS still angry and horrified by the attitude he takes to that question and the implication that he was the one who orchestrated that death, because wtf just because his parents were siblings doesn’t mean he should have been anything other than a happy, perfectly loved, alive child??? Get a fucking grip!)

...And then I think. if she does still end up dying* then it’s probably gonna be directly NHS’s fault, in this context? Because “oh okay I was not expecting her to be chill with that, that’s an unpleasant surprise; well I still gotta ruin JGY’s marriage somehow SHRUG”. But on the other hand I really really don’t love all the women dying, so maybe instead he just reveals her complicity publicly and destroys her reputation and turns her into a pariah? :/ Which is still unpleasant but at least isn’t. death.

Anyway the reason why is like. Partially just aesthetic preferences!! I like “morally questionable power couple” much better than I like “evil dude and morally pure innocent victim wife”. (I in fact very much dislike the latter. Looking @ u, late Numenor.) And also partially - I very much like the additional resonance of “JGY underestimates he sweet and kind people around him and doesn’t notice that they can also have sneaky ruthless streaks” that this would add re: Huaisang? While also for that matter foreshadowing the Huaisang reveal?

And, yeah, a lot of other changes I would “like” to make, honestly fall more into the genre of “things I would like as fix-it fics” rather than changes I want to make to the base story, because so many of the pieces I’ve gone “augh but what if that were different!” are just. structurally important to MDZS’s tragic and other thematic elements. Messing with this aspect to Qin Su’s story doesn’t have to make the base plot non-tragic, but does improve on a few issues I have with e.g. morally polarised female characters who all die anyway.

2. Which character would you bring back to life?

!!???!!? when are we talking, here! in what fashion?

....okay, so for the sake of not making my head explode with potential options, I’m going to limit this to cases of characters who are 100% confirmed dead, being brought back either as a fierce corpse or via sacrifice-summon, generally within the main timeline of the story (i.e. not several decades post-canon).

And of that set under those conditions, I’m gonna pick Jiang Yanli. Look. I LOVE the possibilities of fierce corpse!Jiang Yanli. As a scenario it’s both incredibly fucked up but also the possibilities for really emotional reconciliation between all three Yunmeng siblings in the present timeline??? Logistically I think this would have to take place in a bookverse-style “LWJ carries WWX off to the burial mounds post-Nightless City battle” situation... so like, in a fit of practically qi-deviating rage-grief, WWX reanimates JYL’s corpse right as she dies, a la Wen Ning? and then part of what he’s doing, half out of his mind, during the missing time in the Burial Mounds is working on bringing her spiritual consciousness to put back in there.

........there’s definitely more logistics to be worked out, most notably “where is she during the intervening decade?” but. I love the idea of Jiang Cheng’s anger being not only “you killed my sister” but also “YOU TURNED MY SISTER INTO A FUCKING ZOMBIE”. I love the idea of, eventually, her being ACTUALLY PRESENT to express some of her own opinions and feelings on how WWX & JC fighting over her death (& fierce corpse status) is rly fucked up. make them deal with her as an actual person who’s inconvenient in her wants and needs and willingness to always extend a hand to others, not just a place to hang all their messy emotions on! give her eventually a chance to bond with Jin Ling, and the awkwardness and grief about how much of his life she missed, interspersed with “!!!!! I get to have this back! feelings!”

Because also just in general, I’d really love to have her around to interact with all the characters in their fucked-up “one timeskip later” iterations, and her perma-dying really just robs us of that chance and it’s very rude!

Bonus: holy fuck what would it be like for all her talents and skills and weaknesses to suddenly be completely reversed? Extremely physically strong and capable now! But more likely to scare people than charm them. Can she still, like, taste food properly? Who knows. But wouldn’t THAT be a juicy situation to explore for her! :O

#stripedroseandsketchpads #about me #ask meme responses #no good things for the poor sad cultivators #ask a James

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inessencedevided · 4 years

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Once you're done with the entire show, could you maybe do sorting for all the characters? I usually know the house for each character, but I have literally no idea with The Untamed. WWX for example I can equally see him as a Gryffindor, Ravenclaw or Hufflepuff and my brain hurts trying to decide.

First of all: I'm so so sorry anon! This took ages to answer! I hope you're still out there to read this! I started answering ages ago and then trailed off because I had to think about it. So here goes:

Thank you so much for this opening! I LOVE sorting non-HP characters into Hogwarts houses!! And for some of these, I’ve already done so in my head ages ago :D

Disclaimer: I’m mostly going off live action canon here, but will make some comments about the novel from time to time.

Disclaimer 2: Obviously, these are extremely subjective. If anyone disagrees, I would love to hear your counter arguments! I love discussing these things!

Wei Wuxian

GRYFFINDOR!

I know you said you weren’t sure but in my book, he’s a textbook Gryffindor. I’m not saying he doesn’t have Hufflepuff or Raveclaw traits (his sense of justice and his “out of the box thinking” kinda genius come to mind), but those aren’t the main drive of his actions imo. WWX follows his confiction and he often does so without even considering a second option or a compromise, especially before his death. And he is not afraid of deviating from the law or societal expectations to do so. This alone could also make him a Slytherin. The reason I wouldn’t place him there is the way he acts very much in the open. He doesn’t try to bring about change by quietly working in the background. He openly calls people out on their bullshit, even when it is clearly to his disadvantage and might just come back to bite him in the ass. Imo, WWX is a brilliant example of how a gryffindor might be driven to doing some very questionable shit given the "right" circumstances.

Lan Wangji

Now, he’s a different story. I have a lot more problems sorting him, maybe because he is not our point of view character. And he's the reason why it took me so long to answer this ask. My conclusion might be controversial, so let me work up to it. Slytherin? His most slytherin trait, imo, is his determination and drive, which I think stems, among other things, from a desire to prove himself. However, I believe his main reasons for this were family loyalty and (somewhat headcanon territory) the rejection he must have felt at his parents absence. And I don't see him as cunning either, as that always carries a certain level of deceitful intent, even if it's not malicious. And deceitful? That's one thing lwj certainly isn't. So, Slytherin is not a good fit for him. Ravenclaw maybe? He is certainly very intelligent, but that intelligence is more due to his studious nature and his focus, imo. And wisdom and out-of-the-box-thinking are not traits I would associate him with, especially in his younger years. So gryffindor then? He is certainly brave in many ways. He is enduring and stubborn, both gryffindor traits. But he also someone who takes his time to arrive at decisions, unless he is under extreme emotional duress (losing his mother or the love of his live). His bravery, to me, seems to be deeply rooted in his deep deep devotion. He goes through extreme, long lasting pain for the few people he holds close to his heart. In the end it all comes down to his heart, his loyalties, his devotion. Ironically, even more so in the book than in cql. And that loyalty, that steadfastness, that devotion is extremely hufflepuff.

So here you go:

HUFFLEPUFF! (There is no yellow:/)

(And now I really wanna write that AU :D on first glance, lwj would make such an unusual hufflepuff, with his cold and aloof behaviour. I want to play with this idea now!)

Lan Xichen

HUFFLEPUFF!

Aaaahhh! Now I really like the idea of the twin jades of hufflepuff. :D and Lan Xichen is a bit more obvious right? He certainly has the intelligence of a ravenclaw, but his defining characteristics are his devotion to his duty, his kindness, his fairness and his willingness to carefully consider all sides. A hufflepuff to boot. No wonder, I love him so much.

(And now I can't help but imagine lan Xichen, welcoming his little brother at the hufflepuff table, beaming with pride. And later, making sure that they eat at least 1 meal per day together because he knows his brother doesn't make friends easily, even in a house as theirs. Until there's a certain rebellious and bright eyed gryffindor, with a penchant for DADA ...)

Jiang Cheng

He, too, gave me a hard time sorting him. Ravenclaw, I discarded immediately. Gryffindor came next. He's definitely brave in his own way. Going on after the devastating loss of his entire family is brave beyond anything I can imagine, but his motivation why he did it, I believe, was a mixture of family loyalty and his competitiveness and drive to prove himself worthy. Thise are hufflepuff and Slytherin traits, respectively. I would tip the scale towards the latter, simply because his inner conflict is so defined by his feelings of inferiority, his feelings of never living up to his parents expectations. He's in that weird place of being both extremely privileged and emotionally neglected. It reminds me of Draco, come to think of it. So, my favourite angry grape, I'll place in ...

SLYTHERIN!

(He's even rockin' the snake aesthetic already :D)

Jiang Yanli

With her association with cooking and motherly love she seems to be a rather obvious hufflepuff. She is certainly brave, too, enduring her family's near destruction and moving on, or standing in front of her adoptive brother and defending his place in her family and in society. But again, it's very much tied to the people she loves. So yeah,

HUFFLEPUFF!

Nie Mingjue

The jock to end all jocks and still he's got a heart of gold. He's kinda the cliche gryffindor and I can't find a reason to not place him there. So *head barely touches him*

GRYFFINDOR!

Nie Huaisang

SLYTHERIN!

If the twist at the end didn't happen, I'd have placed him in Ravenclaw, as it is, he is such a quintessential Slytherin and also, just ... my favourite kind, especially in cql, where he just fuvjs off to paint his fans and leaves others to do the heavy lifting. He got what he wanted, revenge for his beloved older brother. It reminds me a bit of Horace Slughorn (minus the people collecting). He doesn't want to be at the top. He just wants a comfortable enough life and the possibility to reach his very specific and not at all mainstream goals. A legend. (In mdzs, where he becomes chief cultivator, he's still a Slytherin, albeit a slightly less interesting one.)

Wen Qing

Now, she is another hard one. Another fiercely loyal person (although that's a common trait in mdzs/cql), she also had to show incredible resourcefulness to survive and still stick to her principles throughout her life. But to mention that she invented and su subsequently performed the first core transfer in history. (In the book, it is specifically mentioned that the essay on this subject was written by her). In short, this woman is s genius in her field and forward thinking and incentive. All of those are textbook Ravenclaw traits. So, with her we have ...

RAVENCLAW!

Wen Ning

Puh, he is hard. I know, with his timid behaviour and gentle nature, hufflepuff comes to mind BUT ... he strikes me as a neville. As in, his bravery lies in the fact that his own insecurities hinder him constantly and yet he overcomes them every day in a hundred small ways. He is brave precisely because he is afraid of so many things. And, like Neville, when his sense if right and wrong demands it, he takes a stand. His rescue of wwx and jc extremely dangerous circumstances and the core reveal come to mind. So, even though he probably argues with the hat to place him in hufflepuff, I'll place him in ...

GRYFFINDOR!

Jin Guangyao

SLYTHERIN!

Do I have to explain this?

Luo Qingyang

I know, she's a much more minor character than the others but I love her and this is my post, so she's in it. Do i have to say it? I hate to be the "Gryffindors ftw!!!"-one (as a proud snake), but yeah, Nie Mingjue was goddamn right when he said that she's got more backbone than half the cultivation world combined. My queen snapped and removed herself from the narrative and I love her for it!

GRYFFINDOR!

Let's get to the juniors:

Lan Sizhui

Now, maybe the hufflepuff does run in his family because I do think he belongs there, too. His defining characteristics are shown to be kindness, fairness and filial piety, even though he also has a mischievous streak and does not shy away from confrontation when he thinks his warranted (politely defending "Mo Xuanyu" in front of the Mo clan comes to mind). So yeah

HUFFLEPUFF!

Lan Jingyi

His brash and outgoing nature would make him a good gryffindor fit, certainly. However, the trait I associate with him the most is his nonconformity and that in a sect where that is highly unusual. He might not be as much of a social butterfly as Luba, but he still reminds me more of the kind of eccentricity associated with ...

RAVENCLAW!

Jin Ling

Now he's hard. Maybe because he postures a lot though that's something that's true for a lot of these characters. He tries to imitate his uncle but has non of the trauma to back it up, though he is an orphan and,in his position, probably pretty lonely which leads to the kind of breakdown we see him having over his confrontation with the person who killed his parents and he can't even really blame and so he just... crumbles. And non of that really helps me in my search for a house for him. I don't really see him as a Slytherin because while he loves to posture and play his privileges, he mostly crumbles under pressure and I don't think there's conviction behind it. He's certainly not sly either. Rabenclaw? Nah. I see neither outstanding amounts of eccentricity or wisdom. Gryffindor? Maybe. He's certainly impulsive. And he displayed bravery both in Yi City and even more so in the Guanyin temple where he had to face the fact that one of his uncles, the men who raised him, would kill him to achieve his goals. Still, what left the biggest impression on me was how, after his own world had just completely changed, he send his dog away because wwx would fear him. And how he then tried to get his uncle to talk to wwx. So I'd tentatively go with

HUFFLEPUFF!

Ouyang Zizhen

Another hard one because we don't know him very well in canon. But what we do know is that he is very emotional (passionate one might say) and has no qualms going against his father in a fit of teenage rebellion. I love him for it but that's not that much to go on. Both of these point to gryffindor however, so that's where he goes. :D

GRYFFINDOR!

So ... that's where I'll leave it. I know I missed the Yi city arc but it's getting late and I'm tired. 😅 If anyone wants to add them, feel free!

Congrats of you've made it this far down! :D

Please, do come and discuss these with me!

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pumpkinpaix · 5 years

Note

hi again! previous anon here, just remembered a question. there's something that's been nagging at me about the show's lan parents storyline — LXC tells WWX that story about his parents and it seems like it's meant as a parallel for LWJ and WWX. But the Lan parents thing sounded like a super toxic/unhealthy relationship? like their mom was literally being kept against her will... maybe i'm just missing the nuance for the parallel? would love to hear your thoughts on this!

(ask con’t, sorry it’s long) i’ve just gotten out of a bad relationship not too long ago and gets really leery of cdramas portraying control as love (ie one love interest preventing the other from leaving, or clear power imbalances as with period dramas). i really don’t think that’s what’s happening here but got kind of uncomfortable too at the “i want to bring someone back to gusu/hide them away” line LWJ had earlier. might you have an alternate interpretation? i’m almost sure i’m misreading!

So a couple things first: thank you so much for asking me this question because my thoughts about the untamed/mdzs have been so much and turbulent that having a specific thing to focus on is really helpful, AND it’s also really flattering that you think I??? would have worthwhile thoughts???? about this really complicated thing.

Second: I want to make sure to say that no matter how strongly I feel about my interpretation, no matter how long I spend composing this response, you are not obligated to change how you feel. If that line still bothers you, it still bothers you. Our experiences are different! And it’s okay! That being said, haha, buckle up I guess, because WOW do I have a lot of things to say.

Spoilers up through episode 43, obviously, with allusions to the novel. I will try to keep any details about things that happen post-43 vague.

Let’s begin with this moment:

“Was he right to do this?” || “I don’t know.”

[id: image 1 is a screenshot of lan xichen asking “was he right to do this” and image 2 is a screenshot of wei wuxian responding “i don’t know” from episode 43 of the untamed /end id]

I think we need to think about how to answer this question before we can answer your question: how can we interpret the relationship between lan wangji and lan xichen’s parents? Was it moral? Was it okay? Was it right? This is clearly a question that lan xichen has been wrestling with his whole life. And from this scene, I think that he’s made his peace with the fact that it’s always going to be a question for him, not because the inherent morality is unclear, but because of the emotional subjectivity he’s always going to hold for it. He doesn’t expect wei wuxian to have an answer because he doesn’t have an answer himself.

Something that I remember from the novel that doesn’t make it into this scene, though, is what wei wuxian says after lan xichen asks, “can you understand why my father acted this way?” and he nods, is the explanation he gives: he hated the person who had murdered his mentor, but he also loved her so much he couldn’t bear to see her destroyed. Unable to live with himself, he married her, swore to protect her, and then imprisoned her for the rest of her life. Tormented by his contradictions, he then locked himself away as well. lan xichen agrees.

lan wangji and lan xichen were raised without their parents—largely, they were raised by their upright uncle, who, due to his brother’s behavior, took up the responsibilities of sect leader and parent at the same time. (It’s really no wonder that lan qiren has such a vicious dislike for wei wuxian: he loves lan wangji so much, and he’s so afraid to watch the child he raised repeat history. Beyond that, I think it’s pretty safe to say that lan qiren probably harbors not insignificant resentment towards his brother for the harm he did to both his children and to lan qiren himself.) Lan qiren is not married and as far as we know, never has any romantic entanglements after he begins raising the lan brothers. So where does that leave lan wangji and lan xichen in terms of models for romance? All they have is the fraught relationship between their parents.

lan wangji is not good with words. He expresses himself primarily through action, which we see time and time again. When lan wangji says to lan xichen, “there’s someone I want to take back to the cloud recesses. take them back and hide them away,” I think he’s trying to explain (with words) his feelings for wei wuxian in the only way he knows how: by making a reference to the only romantic relationship to which he and lan xichen were firsthand witnesses. lan xichen canonically understands wangji better than pretty much everyone: he sees straight through him at Biling lake when he invites wei wuxian and jiang cheng along to hunt the water spirits because he knows lan wangji wants wei wuxian to come. He asks if he wants loquats even when wangji refuses them. So when lan wangji says that, lan xichen first repeats the statement carefully to make sure he understands what’s at stake, and then he says something very crucial: “you only fear that he isn’t willing”.

I think this says a lot— specifically, that both lan xichen and lan wangji understand firsthand the pain their father caused and what exactly was wrong about it. I think what lan wangji is saying between the lines is, “I’m in love with someone. I want to take them home with me. I want to hide them away from the world to protect them. I fear this makes me like our father, whose love led him to do such terrible things to our mother, and by extension, to us and our uncle. I can’t repeat his mistakes.” And lan xichen, understanding all of that, gets to the heart of lan wangji’s inner conflict: wei wuxian is not willing, and lan wangji refuses to follow in his father’s footsteps, no matter how tormented he feels about the person he loves, no matter how much he wants to.

Every time lan wangji tries and fails to get wei wuxian to return with him to gusu, it’s with the intention of trying to help him, trying to protect him from the other sects, trying to pull him back before he does something unforgivable, much like his father’s motivations for bringing his mother back to gusu (“he swore that this was his beloved wife and that anyone who wished to hurt her [for her crimes] would have to go through him”), but unlike his father, lan wangji never forces wei wuxian to do anything. He never keeps him locked up, never forcibly kidnaps him. Not only that, but lan wangji is also willing to fight wei wuxian when he believes that wei wuxian is doing something inadmissible: heis the only one to stand against his initial forays into demonic cultivation, and physically confronts him on the roof at the nightless city. Would he have actually followed through on killing him, had things gone differently? Maybe, maybe not, but at the very least, it shows that he, unlike his father, was willing to try to destroy the person he loved when he crossed the line.

Anon, you’re right that there’s a parallel between the lan parents and wangxian, but I think the key is how they parallel each other. Lan wangji doesn’t repeat his father’s mistakes. When he finally does bring wei wuxian back to gusu and hide him away to protect him, wei wuxian is not there against his will, and, I think also importantly, lan wangji is with him. It’s no accident that lan wangji’s residence is the jingshi, the place his mother was imprisoned for his whole life, and it’s no accident that he brings wei wuxian there. But lan wangji doesn’t lock him there and abandon him like his father did with his mother: he’s there with him the whole time. Lan wangji, when all is said and done, is finally ready to stand by wei wuxian in spite of everything he did, unlike his father, who couldn’t do so with his wife: couldn’t destroy her, couldn’t stand with her. lan wangji makes his choice. “I regretted that I couldn’t stand with you at the nightless city.” The parallel is one that emphasizes contrast in spite of similarity.

All this ties vaguely into bigger themes present within the story, particularly the tensions between freedom/restriction and parents/children. These are like, two whole other essays haha, so I won’t get too deep into the weeds (unless you or anyone else wants to ask me!!! bc, anon, believe me, I would BE WILLING!!!) but:

1. lan wangji and wei wuxian are fundamentally very similar people, even if their personalities are not. They have incredibly strong moral compasses and want nothing more than to be righteous and to live with clear consciences about their choices. The difference is in how they go about that. wei wuxian chafes under rules, breaks them when he finds them unjust or unimportant, and thinks that he doesn’t deserve to be punished. When lan wangji finds that his moral compass conflicts with the rules he chooses to live by, he prioritizes his own sense of justice, much like wei wuxian, but he also accepts the punishments that are given to him without complaint. wei wuxian cherishes freedom over all while lan wangji lives under strict regulation, but the point is that they both take it too far. wei wuxian is righteous to the point of arrogance, flaunts his peers’ judgments and warnings to his eventual downfall. lan wangji, after doing what he thinks is right, allows himself to be punished without protest so severely he’s bedridden and imprisoned for three years. I would say neither of these approaches is… ideal, and I think that’s part of why wangxian feels so profound. They temper each other’s worst weaknesses. (rereading this, i’m not sure i’m 100% behind everything I just said lol, but again, an essay for another time)

2. Like lan wangji is paralleled with his father, wei wuxian is paralleled with his mother, zangse-sanren: free-spirited, mischievous, and ultimately meeting a tragic end for the choices she made out of that desire for freedom. He too is able to eventually escape his mother’s fate, just as lan wangji escapes his father’s. The parallels between parent and child are strong for almost all the mains, though not all of them manage to free themselves and achieve some measure of happiness, and this in itself relates to the even bigger questions of what matters more: your heritage, or your actions? Your heritage, or your upbringing? What can you do to avoid making the same mistakes as your predecessors?

I’ve already talked about this wrt wei wuxian and lan wangji, but the same goes for characters like jiang cheng, jin zixuan, wen qing, wen ning, mianmian, jin guangyao, su she, nie huaisang, jin ling, lan sizhui, ouyang zizhen, xiao xingchen, song lan, xue yang etc. like the list is endless. Part of why mdzs/the untamed is so heartwrenching is watching history repeat itself while the protagonists, who are also acutely aware, are nearly powerless to stop it. The juniors end up being the breaking from all that: willing to defy their parents, make their own decisions about right and wrong, recognize that a person’s actions should speak louder than the rumors that run on their account.

tl;dr: the lan parents’ relationship is toxic and hurtful to everyone around them. wangxian absolutely parallels it, but in a way that highlights how they differ from their predecessors, tying into larger thematic issues of the story.

eek that was almost 2k words yikes!! I hope my enthusiastic rambling helped you see that “take them back, hide them away” line in a different light haha, but I want to say again: you’re not obligated to take my interpretation as fact, and you also don’t have to think everything about wangxian is perfect to still like it. We all consume and like imperfect stories! I totally get your feelings on weird power dynamics/inequalities in relationships because… it’s abusive? it’s terrible? It hurts to see?? esp given what you said about your own experience, like yeah, for sure!!! but for me? when lan wangji says, “I want to take someone back to the cloud recesses—take them back, hide them away”, it reads as a really powerful, self-aware expression of what it means for someone like him to fall in love.

EDIT 16 APR 2020: I find myself only agreeing with ~85% of this after many months of reflection. /o\ *hides face* leaving it as-is because it’s what I wrote at the time, but! you know. I have changed some of my views.

#the untamed #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #wangxian #陈情令 #魔道祖师 #meta #mine #anonymous #asks and replies #this is so long i'm so sorry!!!#this is also an open invitation for everyone to come talk to me about the untamed/mdzs #please #let me put my literary and film analysis training to any use at all please #mymeta

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lotus-mirage · 4 years

Text

The Untamed episode 50 liveblog

Wow. D: I can’t believe I’m almost done with this. I will probably wind up at least watching some of the animated version, but for now this is the end! Aaahh

So Jin Guangyao didn’t make a move, then.

Focus is squarely on Nie Huaisang now. He did it on purpose then?

‘Didn’t have a clue’?

Okay, but was the rest of it him, too? He seems pretty shaken right now honestly.

He pushed the sword further in??? D:

Oh that’s a horrible confession to make. That he didn’t want to hurt Lan Xichen, I mean. That’s absolutely going to hurt the guy after Jin Guangyao finally passes.

It’d almost be kinder to tell him that he was using him too, frankly. Almost. I don’t know. Yikes.

Oh jeez that background shot of Jin Ling D,:

I keep forgetting he’s here watching this too yikes

Wait what’s he doing

How the heck did he do that???? He’s been bleeding out for at least a few minutes already!

Is he breaking the seal thing!?

Uh oh

Is he going to stay? It looks like he’s at least considering it.

???? I thought he wanted him to stay!?

Okay now these are the dramatics I was expecting from Nie Mingjue

Jin Ling D,:

Where’d he go? Is he still in there?

I still don’t know what to make of Nie Huaisang

Oh! Was he the last person he had to get revenge on?

Well there’s literally everyone else

:,( at Jiang Cheng just watching him

He’s leaving!? D:

How many child actors did they have for like one scene each??

Oh Nie Huaisang was holding the hat?

Wait is that blood

Not sure what he was feeling there. It was interesting though. Huh.

I’m D,: at this entire conversation with Jiang Cheng and Jin Ling. It’s so good.

Oh flashback?

Did he get himself caught on purpose!? D,:

Ahhhhhh

Hahaha was that an interrupted confession? It sure felt like one.

Ahhh Lan Sizhui :,D

Oh good they’re telling him

Ahhhhhhhhh

they’re hugging ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

‘Sad but thrilled’ is a good description

Hahaha this is fantastic

Okay the leg hug is a little awkward but the sentiment is nice

Ahhhhhh

Oh! They’re going back to Qishan together! Oh that’s so nice.

There is a lot of ‘person in black and person in white walking off together’ in this show

WAIT WAIT is he not going too!??

?????

WHAT

?????????????????

is this a flashback or a time skip what is happening

I mean very pretty but what

Okay these are new clothes so assumedly not a flashback

Good they didn’t split up

Oh I recognize this shot

Several of these shots actually - they’re used in either the opening or the ending I think

Oh good Nie Huaisang’s here too. We might actually be getting an explanation.

Okay that ‘Thou shall not befriend the devil’ was very threatening please clarify.

They laughed but I’m not sure if it was actually a joke

...okaaaay

Oh good they’re confirming it even without him

More or less

?? Okay what’s going on now. I’m on edge after that whole-

Shoot they are splitting up!?

??????

Okay so it’s not forever but??

Oh he’s playing the song!?

Thank goodness they’re implying it’s not for too long.

Wow is he in another outfit already?

That’s very pretty

?? What prompted the pause in music??

Okay he turned around was that them meeting back up?

Oh.

Oh thats the end. :,(

End notes:

Okay I had to do something but I am back half an hour later and watching the ending and it is giving me very strong emotions wow

Okay so.

First off: very good series - I was confused a whole lot but it made me feel things and I love it.

The ending was really well done, I think - there was a lot of ambiguity but it wrapped up enough of the emotional threads in a very effective manner.

Wow, uh. Hmmm. What to say.

Thoughts on characters/plot threads as I remember them:

I found that the strongest emotional thread of this show was probably the family/grief aspect. Mainly the family aspect, but the two were often combined. It showed up absolutely everywhere - it was both Wei Wuxian’s driving factor and in a way Jin Guangyao’s? Moreso the lack of it in the latter’s case. And a complicated issue with both (especially with their parents). On second thought this may hold true for a lot of the cast.

It did kind of feel like Wen Ruohan was kind of not a character and was just there to drive the war forward (and thus the characters and plot). Which is fine? But it leaves me feeling like the driving force behind the war was a little hollow, which is eh.

The Wen remnants were super compelling, though. That entire arc hit hard and made sense as a logical effect of the war.

I don’t really know how to feel about the post-timeskip stuff as a whole. On the one hand, I enjoyed myself a lot? It was great fun. On the other hand a lot of it contrasted sharply with the mass death at the end of the last arc.

The characters themselves were mostly pretty great (with the exceptions of, like, the Wen antagonists, some sect leaders, Su She and Jin Zixun).

I always have a hard time talking about main characters (in this case WWX and LWJ). I think it’s because we know so much about them that it’s hard to pick a single subject to talk about with them??

Anyway, they were really great. They had unique dynamics with each other and with all the other characters that evolved as they did. Neither were static characters and each step they took made sense?

Jiang Cheng is a very flawed character and he made me feel a lot and he’s my favorite. After a certain point he just had so many strong emotions, many of which conflicted each other and it was just entirely compelling and relatable. I feel like he is the strongest character outside of the main two + Jin Guangyao, although that may be my bias speaking.

Jin Guangyao. I totally forgot to think about story structure with him, frankly - didn’t see why he kept getting so much screen time and was constantly developing as well. I didn’t realize he was going to be a full-blown antagonist, let alone the antagonist, way past when I should have. He’s a sympathetic character, and the audience is reminded of this even as he does all these awful things. Yeah, he keeps finding himself in terrible situations but he also causes a lot of innocent casualties. I don’t totally know how to feel about him fully, but I think that’s the point.

Lan Xichen is also very flawed, but like. In a gentler way? I’m not sure we really see enough to know him as well as we could, but we do know that he’s trying and he cares, and sometimes that sucks for him.

Nie Huaisang is frankly a bit of an enigma. Unlike Jin Guangyao, he doesn’t exposit or drop masks where we can see him. I think he’s very interesting but maybe too underutilized in the majority of the series for me to say much else about him. I did really like the banter he had with Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian, though.

Not sure I have as much to say on the other characters. Oops.

Lan Sizhui! Best boy. I love him.

Wen Ning is also best boy. He’s adorable. And also terrifying sometimes.

Wen Qing was fantastic. I liked her character so much and was very sad to see her go.

I was very surprised by how much Jin Zixuan grew on me. Props to that.

Jin Ling was also great. I loved his interactions with basically everyone. Also I feel like with maybe the exception of maybe Lan Xichen the ending probably was the worst for him. Smack dab in the center of the family drama, if you can count multiple set-ups and murders that.

I kind of simultaneously wish Jiang Yanli was more and am kind of content with how she was? I mean some of her role is a little... overly-limited, but she’s still a fairly important aspect of the story and continuously makes her own decisions and the like.

Madame Yu was a more interesting character to me than her husband but was also much more antagonistic. It’s an interesting duality where I want to see more of her but also want her to not interact with the other characters much, which doesn’t make any sense.

Xiao Xingchen and Song Lan didn’t have much of an impact outside of the Coffin Town bit, but frankly that was painful enough that it’s fine!! It was well done and their situation was awful but that hurt enough already!

Xue Yang is a character. Very well-portrayed and I feel like the actor had a blast but I feel like he didn’t have a giant impact either? He was a cool and scary villain.

Overall, it was a great show with a lot of interesting characters! It was great at emotional storytelling, except for when there was whiplash. I loved the music and the costuming, and the actors were great. Some of the special effects were a little wacky (looking at Lan Xichen’s instrument and the Wens’ dog thing), but some of them were really cool (see: Wen Ning’s entrance into the temple). Sometimes the politics-talk grated my nerves a bit, but that may be mostly a personal preference thing. The fighting also took some getting used to, but was impressive in some areas.

The show made me feel a lot and I am still feeling both the mixed bittersweet feelings from the show and that oh-shoot-the-story’s-over hole-in-the-chest feeling right now, but I don’t know how else to talk about that.

It wasn’t perfect but I enjoyed it a lot and am very impressed by it.

Let me know if I missed anything - there’s a lot and I am totally open for discussion.

#the untamed #mdzs #untamed liveblog #my thoughts

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kyohiba · 5 years

Text

snow white + prince cursing. jiang cheng and wen ning fix it post canon au

WEN NING TAKING A BLOW TO THE CHEST FOR JIN LING N JC TAKING AN ARROWN TO THE HEART FOR WEN NING LMAO

ssyifpfff🌙 i dig it, havent thot much of it tho

May 16 ssyifpfff🌙 but the idea of wen ning trailing behing sizhui and jc trailing behing jin ling n thm meeting while they keep their respective babies safe os *kisses filgers* DOLCE

May 16 i feel like a whole 4th eye of mine opened to that... but my mind probably wont be able to focus much. i hate how i can only hyperfixate in one or two ships at time

ISNT IT SO DOLCE? FORTÍSSIMO!

yeeting patriarch jiang cheng's hostility decreasing as they kept meeting...

yeeting patriarch perhaps wn and jc could get my ass more than jc with huaisang !?

but nothing will ever get ur ass more thn jc/happiness will it

jiang cheng n huaisang is v Aesthethic bc huaisang is a pretty pretty hoe

ssyifpfff🌙 bUT W WEN NING THERES A LOT OF ANGST

May 16 jc + happiness is all that matters

but... the sweet angst road of wn and jc...

yeeting patriarch IT CAN AND IT WILL LEAD TO HAPPINESS !?

and yea the Appeal of jc ano nhs is that huaisang is Very Pretty plus his scheming charm. but we arent given much canon background to work on this. not that it matters, lord knows we built the content when we really want to make anything

but The Flavor, of the canon background content for jc and wn Is There And It's Stronf

yeeting patriarch nevermind what i said im already ass deep into it. i love both jc and wn way too much, the appeal got me immediately

ssyifpfff🌙 ALSO BC WUXIAN DITCHED BOTH OF THEM FOR THT WANGJI D LMAO

May 16 ssyifpfff🌙 them bonding over how dumb wuxian would act "he would float in the water n pretend he drowned" "yea he told a-yuan he needed to be buried in order to grow big n tall like a raddish" they look at each other n want to laugh but jc doenst know if hes comfortable enough for tht n wn doenst know if hes allowed to

May 16 yeeting patriarch REPRESSED DUMB BABIES LAUGH TO UR HEARTS CONTENTS TOGETHER :(((((

but oh god, the way jiang cheng is,

their road would be So Long

yeeting patriarch another slow burn, uh...

and then so much confusion and conflicted angsty feelings along the way when everything is better because jc was almost forgetting that..........wen ning is dead :) hes a corpse. what future awaits them. this is terrifying

yeeting patriarch ...why cant i have anything nice and just soft. i need to throw angst in or i die?

ssyifpfff🌙 its awful its a terrible idea to ship tht what r u doin

May 16 ssyifpfff🌙 but wen ning being a pure boy, dogs would love him, dogs would gather around him bc he has a Good Aura, n jianc cheng just observes from afar thinkin How can he be so approachable whn hes a fierce corpse

May 16 ssyifpfff🌙 like it would have to start w jc thinkin wen ning is less thn a human u understand

May 16 yeeting patriarch

ssyifpfff🌙 SAJGDASDF

May 16 IM CRYING imagine one day jiang cheng finds wen ning, on the floor, on top of him there are like four different dogs all swaying their tails all that hyper bullshit dogs do.

the incident repeats quite a few times

yeeting patriarch jc notices dogs are drawn to wen ning?

ssyifpfff🌙 he notices MAYBE?? hes not a dangerous zombie after all???

May 16 he lets it slip and asks how wuxian reacted to it

as wwx is terrified of dogs

and wen ning is like. where we... spent most of our time... there were no dogs

(awkward silence timel

ah. ruined it again.

okay 2 take

when they're on those night hunts, wen ning + sizhui & jiang cheng + jin ling

fairy starts being Too Friendly towards wen ning

both jiang cheng and jin ling were initially taken aback by it

yeeting patriarch but as the time goes on... it Softens their heart

ssyifpfff🌙 iT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE BC FAIRY IS A SPIRITUAL DOG N IT WOULDNT NVR BE FRIENDLY TO AN EVIL GHOUL SO IT RLY MAKES THM SEE THT WEN NING ISNT A BAD GUY

May 16 ssyifpfff🌙 also take 2 on tht dog thing, wen ning is like "ah wei wuxian made me chase any dogs away, i quite like dogs but i had to" to remind jc of the puppies he had to give away bc of wwx lmao :)

May 16 yeeting patriarch THEY START REALIZING WEN NING IS THE PUREST ANGEL... and opening up, in their tsun ways, with him

yeeting patriarch i like how the canon wen ning art is him with a ginger cat, but for the sake of jiangning we made him a dog person

i honestly picture him being the snow white os mdzs, just all animals gathering around him

bird perching on his shoulders, deer eating from his hands. jiang cheng confused af

hes Prince Not Charming

ssyifpfff🌙 Prince Cursing, if u will

May 16 yeeting patriarch WEN NING SNOW WHITE OF MDZS AND HIS PRINCE CURSING JIANG CHENG IM YELLINGGFFKDJSKSK

yeeting patriarch jiang cheng going thru the trees and shit then he finds wen ning all surrounded by all animals cutely around him, the birds singing, some squirrels on the top of his head, a butterfly kissing his nose and suddenly the scene seem to have 💖Sparkles 💖 around. jiang cheng is like *rubs his eye and looks again* What

ssyifpfff🌙 "hey you... you have some animals on you" n wen ning was just super still he only focuses on jc "Oh yes. they do this sometimes. its ok i enjoy it"

May 16 ssyifpfff🌙 "everytime i wake up theres a few little ones on me, they must think im a rock or something" jiang cheng, internally, seein all the animals: CLEARLY THEY ENJOY IT TOO???

May 16 yeeting patriarch JIANG CHENG MACHINE BROKE

ssyifpfff🌙 MEAN JIANG CHENG.EXE STOPPED WORKING

May 16 PRECISELY HENSKLDGSKLS

i would like the idea of, somewhere farther into the future,

some cultivator bitch being mean to wen ning and by instinct jiang cheng ends up standing for wen 5

wen ning*

but then hes a sect leader and...

yknow how it wouldnt work

yeeting patriarch BUT A NYARI CAN DREAM!?

THEY CAN AT LEAST BE ... LIKE.... PHILTATOS

ssyifpfff🌙 MOST BELOVED

May 17 jiang cheng has responsibilities but thEY CAN BE LIKE YOU KNOW.... CASUAL

ssyifpfff🌙 they dont gotta marry. not every couple can be wangxian

May 17 PHILTATOSSSSSSSS

tbh im all in for casual couples too

yeeting patriarch not everyone needs or can have Marriage

hmmmmmm the more jc starts seeing The Light in wn, when they're at the middle of the road,

yeeting patriarch more tangled his emotions get?

he was supposed to LOATHE wen ning but then he sees what happened wasnt wen nings fault. hes angry, who to blame then? wuxian! but it also isnt entirely wwx's fault he lost the control, the dark cultivation is a dangerous path after all... and wwx had a lot on his shoulders... and most of all: it was the only path he could follow without his golden core :) the very golden core that now resides inside jc. who should he blame? who should he hate?? Himself???

yeeting patriarch goddammit can i stop with the suffering

me: snow white au hehe you, chaotic bastard: what if jiang cheng hated himself lmao

i hate specifically tht iT MAKES SENSE

ssyifpfff🌙 HE SPENT. OVER A DECADE BLAMING WEN NING N WUXIAN N TO REALIZE HE WAS WRONG, HE WASTED ALL THOSE YEARS. WHOS HE GONNA TURN THT HATE TOWARD??? HIMSELF OFC!!!!! OF COURSE!!!!!!1

May 17 HOLD UP THAT I GRAB BOTH OF US TO JUMP INTO THE HELL HOLE BUT I CAN ALSO SAVE US

listen up,

one day all those feelings that keep growing and bottling up inside jc overflow and he explodes in yelling and tears and etc

wen ning, whom was with him, witness all that

yeeting patriarch and tries to soothe his state of mind

yeeting patriarch telling him that it's no one's fault. none of them couldve known what would happen. all sides had their good intentions here and there, but unfortunately fates can twist it in a way they never expected

BUT THEN jc returns with an "then why do u look like u blame yourself as well?" BECAUSE WEN NING DOES

yeeting patriarch sorry apparently the half brain cell i have working, only does suffering hours

"THEN WHY DO U BLAME URSELF"

nyari u sAID U COULD SAVE US

ssyifpfff🌙 wen ning is like "..............." jiang cheng: i know it wasnt anyones fault but then what am i supposed to feel? who am i supposed to hate??"

May 17 yeeting patriarch IM LAUGHINGS O MUCH IM NOT BRSTJINENSKS

wen ning is like No one. there isnt any1 to blame anymore

ssyifpfff🌙 im franctically tryin to make it bETTER NYARI LEND ME A HAND DAM IT

May 17

MY THROAT HURTS IM TOO BROKE LIKE (MANIC LAUGHTER)

yeeting patriarch okay lemme get myself back together and try to offer some fix it

yeeting patriarch me: *shaking, weakly offering a tiny ass pink hello kitty band aid* This Will Fix Everything (the hell hole im offering the band aid for is like 17cm)

yeeting patriarch wen ning goes confident mode again and says that he cant help it as much jc and wwx, all of them will feel guilty no matter what anyone says. they tried their best but it backfired and they will need, they have to, learn how to live in terms with it. not forgetting, but still forgiving themselves and each other

wen ning obv has the wisdom of some1 who has died, seen death, been death, and come back to life

he has an appreciation for the little things no others would have

if any1 could emotionally guide jc it wOULD BE HIM1!

ssyifpfff🌙 "i have regrets too, but theres no choice for any of us but to live w them n learn"

May 17 ssyifpfff🌙 ALSO

May 17 ssyifpfff🌙 i think wen nings sensibility woULD BE SO GOOD FOR JC, hes always tense he needs a break of him just being so still tht birds can perch on his shoulders

May 17

WEN NINGGGGGGGGG

yeeting patriarch he'll literally become jc's heaven sent angel... his solace and calm

like, after that breakdown and the things wen ning said

yeeting patriarch jiang cheng actually does feel... Lighter

wen ning boutta be jiang chengs therapist

ssyifpfff🌙 its what he needs

May 17 but as jiang cheng starts dealing better with his internal demons

he starts seeing more too that wen ning isnt only light

wen ning carries his pain too, inevitably

and jc starts to help wn as well

yeeting patriarch each other's company start being the healing they needed?

woke

ssyifpfff🌙 jiang cheng teached wn confidence and wen ning teaches jiang cheng stillness and softness

May 17 i teared up here

after The Wen Ning Effect, and jiang cheng softening. people of his sect start to be... less afraid of him? AND BETTER, the respect level only grows!

jiang cheng realizing there is strength in softness too

that to be tender doesnt mean to be weak

of course his actions arent Oh, Super Obvious as he is a tsun

yeeting patriarch but u can feel The Difference on his aura

YOU HAVE TO BE SOFT TO BE STRONG JIANG CHENG

ASKJDAJSDGF

ssyifpfff🌙 I KNOW THAT WHEN LOVE IS LOST..............

May 17 yeeting patriarch I LOVE HOW IN SYNC WE ARE MY MIND ALSO WENT SOFT TO BE STRONF .MP3

ssyifpfff🌙 WE'VE KNOWN IT ALL ALONG THE TRUTH IS............ YOU HAVE TO BE S

May 17 yeeting patriarch ME, ON THE FLOOR, SOBBING, SINGING ALONF,

ssyifpfff🌙 EXTREME MOOD RN

May 17 yeeting patriarch we did done it again and again... i cannot believe it

honestly if the ppl in his sect see tht jc has the ghost general over for tea they'd be like Wow sect leader cheng rly is amazing

ssyifpfff🌙 hes so fearless

May 17 im tearing up again

HMMMMMMMMM his relationship with wen ning also being a bridge for some fixing for his relationship with wuxian...........

takes so much time and it's slow

but

after he took it all in, and especially wen nings words that he shouldn't forget to forgive, and has to live with it

he starts Understanding the events. that is was inevitable. and that the anger would not help nor be good for any of them

yeeting patriarch that for the ones around them (like jin ling) they need to... overcome it

*sobbing* wen ning even helping him to overcome his inferiority complex !?

yeeting patriarch making jc see that this and this sides of him are greater and make up for this and this other ones. that he, too, was of vital importance on here and there

tht the ppl around him look up to him, tht they dont compare him to wuxian, tht the strenght he has shown isnt just coming from his golden core but from his choices as well

from his leadership

also jiang cheng realizing yanli wouldnt want him to hate

ssyifpfff🌙 the worst part abt yanlis death is tht we dont ever hear her last words

May 17 ssyifpfff🌙 she doesnt get to finish sayin thm, we dont know what she was gonna say to wuxian n i firmly believe tht if she has finished n she had said she didint blame him, thn jiang cheng wouldnt have been as hung up on hate as he was

May 17 yeeting patriarch

yeeting patriarch tbh yanli... she just Understood more. faster than the two dense dumbasses

SHE WAS SO BRIGHT

AND MATURE

ssyifpfff🌙 I MISS HER EVERYDAY

May 17 and it's like. Obvious she wouldnt want them to be that way. she would want them to understand the terms of the situation and overcome it TOGETHER

IM SO SAD SHE DESERVED BETTER :(((

but after jiang cheng learns how to deals with his demons,

and most important of all: Grows (emotionally)

he starts seeing things a bit more like his sister would

yeeting patriarch WWYLD (What Would YanLi Do)

yeeting patriarch hmm now what's left is his daddy issues

WWYLD!!!!!

sadasdfsf the fuck jiang dad

ssyifpfff🌙 can u believ wen ning is jiang chengs love+fear era

May 17 hmmmmmmmm let's say that as he watches himself raise jin ling he starts to understand his dad couldn't be easy on him. and that he Had To be softer on wwx's for his situations

i cant go deeper on this one because his dad messed up

yeeting patriarch but let's say that was really the case,

ssyifpfff🌙 yes theres no excuse for his dad, he had a soft spot for wwx n his favoritism showed

May 17 ssyifpfff🌙 its more like, its important for jc to Know it doesnt matter, he grew up to be a good leader n tht proved his dad wrong

May 17 IT'S HARD TO FIND A SITUATION OUT OF HIS DAD REASONS he messed up

BUT!!! YES!!!!!!!

learn to let go of those feelings towards his dad

yeeting patriarch and the day it finally fully clicked inside him that he became an amazing sect leader, he proved it

it's also important that he could realize having wwx golden core inside him means as if wwx really kept his promise

he stayed by his side

yeeting patriarch a very important piece of wwx will always be with him

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