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autisticcassandracain · 2 years

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Batkids ranked from best to worst candidate to take over the Batman mantle according to my very objective (/sarcasm) opinions:

Cass: Cass is loyal to the bat symbol before all else; the bat pulled her out of an aimless, guilt-ridden existance and gave her purpose, a chance to help others, and she takes this very very seriously. She's canonically the most similar to Bruce out of everyone, and values the no killing rule more than him. She wants the job so bad, because to her, Batman is everything she could ever hope to be. Continuing the bat symbol into a new generation, to help and inspire others like her, would be the greatest honor for her. Becoming Batman would be the natural conclusion of her arc.

Dick: Has canonically been Batman and did very well at it, better even than Bruce, canonically. But Nightwing fits him better. He adapted to the Batman mantle, and eventually stopped being miserable in it, but it was a choice made out of necessity, not personal drive. Nightwing was his own creation and fits him like a second skin. He can do Batman, he can do it well, but it won't be natural for him like it would be for Cass.

Steph: There's a fucking curveball for you. Honestly Steph is here bc other than Cass and Dick I don't think there's a good choice for Batman, if Bruce kicks it and neither of them are around I think Batman should just die, but for the sake of this list we will look at how much I'd enjoy seeing the other kids take up the mantle in canon. Steph becoming Batman would be so funny. It'd be a great storytelling opportunity because there's no way she should even be in line so what happened? How does she deal with it? But most importantly, once again, it'd be SO FUNNY if Steph got the mantle of Batman after Bruce treated her as shittily as he did. That's what you get old man.

Tim: idk he'd handle the job badly and would be miserable but this is my list and I don't really care about him so he's here as a placeholder. If Tim became Batman I'd be annoyed but not enraged. So there.

Duke: Perhaps an unpopular opinion among Duke fans but I fucking hate the idea of Batman!Duke. It can work in very specific Elseworld circumstances like Dark Knights Metal but in the mainline continuity? Absolutely tf not. Duke's whole Thing is a radical departure from the batfam's status quo. He's thematically and literally attached to daylight, he has superpowers. Both of those are already wildly antithetical to Batman. In addition: his current hero identity is an homage to his mother. Why would he throw that away? Batman!Duke could be interesting for an arc or two, because all this WOULD make for interesting narrative conflict, but permanently? It'd be a wild misuse of Duke's character to take a character designed to defy the status quo and stick him in a mantle that exists to uphold it. If Bruce dies and Duke's the only one that could take over, Batman should die and Signal should take his place.

Damian: FUCK Batman!Damian all my homies HATE Batman!Damian. All those arcs and character development about how blood doesn't define him only for him to let blood define him, just on the other side of his family? You're all so fucking boring and you should feel bad. And while we're here, no he shouldn't be Nightwing either, that's only slightly less bad, why would stepping from one Dick Grayson legacy mantle to another denote character growth? I have OPINIONS on this. Damian should create his own identity to show that he's grown into his own and found his own path outside of his families. Also 90% of the arguments for Batman!Damian hinge on blood relations which is weird and creepy and also very very very boring.

Jason: I don't think I need to explain this.

Any variant of sharing the mantle: Every time the 'who should be the next batman' debate comes up there's always SOME motherfucker insisting that x and y can just share and two things to that: 1) coward, are you gonna hand out participation trophies next? 2) Batman should not be a status symbol. The batfam should not be a hierarchy with Batman at the top. That's the most boring way possible to approach the Batman mantle. I get that's what DC does in canon, but in canon, they won't ever let Bruce die permanently anyway, so what canon does is kinda a moot point. And frankly? Pretty much all 'x and y should share' arguments seem to be based in the idea that Batman is automatically a better, more prestigious mantle than all others, and that being deprived of it means you're worse than whoever took it. They want everyone to hold the mantle simulaneously because they don't want their fave(s) to 'lose'. It's not a competition of skill, it's a matter of narrative satisfaction. And the only character whose arc would be actively strengthened by becoming Batman is Cass. She shouldn't get it because she's the best fighter, or lose/share it because she's not the best detective; she should get it because it would be a perfect bookend to her arc of self hatred and self determination via the bat. Everyone else is better off with a solo identity or a different legacy mantle. So no, sharing is not a magic solution; it's a cop out.

#Batman isnt a competition but if it was cass would win #My posts #Infodumping #Cassandra cain #Dick grayson #Duke thomas #Stephanie brown #Damian wayne #Tim drake #Jason todd

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stxleslyds · 3 years

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You always seem down on the idea of the Batfam. I mean, it is hard to take seriously when writers make Bruce hostile or downright abusive towards his kids, or when Batfam members never interact. But do you think the concept itself is good, and it's just been the victim of bad writing? Or do you think the Batfam is a bad idea that can never work?

Hi there Anon! Thank you for the ask!

Hmm, this is a difficult question. Maybe I can answer this better if I do it in parts because the concept of “Batfamily” is used in different ways currently. A way to separate them can be, DC’s Batfamily, Fandom’s Batfamily and Fandom’s Batfamily lore being introduced in comics’ canon.

DC’s Batfamily:

My rejection of this version of Batfamily comes from all angles, it is not a good concept within comics lore anymore, it’s badly written and used to hide and move on from truly horrendous actions done by Bruce towards the rest of the family, and DC uses the concept of “Batfamily” that fandom has become so attached to, so they can profit off of it without writing anything of real essence with it.

Why did I say that the Batfamily isn’t a good concept anymore? Well, because the Batfamily that I first came across in comics included, Bruce, Dick, Alfred, Barbara, Tim and Cassandra. It was rather small and their books interconnected and had pretty solid relationships with one another. Dick and Tim got along and spent time together, Barbara mentored Cass so she could become Batgirl and so on and so forth. The family was smaller and more connected. But they still had problems and bad habits then. So, I liked them as a group of people that worked together and the name they received was “Batfamily” as a way for DC to profit from it.

Right now, the Batfamily is huge, I don’t know if you have seen those splash pages with all the members of it for Rebirth and Infinite Frontier, but those promotional pages were crazy big, characters like Harley and Clownhunter are now considered part of the “Batfamily” and all that. Then there is the kind of characters like Cass, Steph and Kate who are all connected to Batman but that haven’t been appearing in books for very long, so putting them on that page really feels like DC is trying to prove that their “Batfamily” actually has women on it, but it’s just for show.

And then there is Dick, Jason, Tim and Damian, the most recognizable faces of the Batfamily aside from Bruce and Alfred (but Alfred is dead now so he doesn’t really count), all of them have had issues with Bruce or are indifferent to the existence of one another. Yes, Tom Taylor has included Tim in Dick’s book but here is the thing, it feels like he put him there just to make fans shut up about the lack of content with both of them acting as they used to do. But its false and lazy, Taylor just brought Tim to the book but we don’t get to see Tim and Dick interact in ways that can explain why they drifted off, it kinda seems like all those years where Dick and Tim were pulled apart never happened to DC and that makes me think “cash grab”. I would have loved to see them interact again if it meant that we would have some solid story for them to develop their relationship once more.

At the end of Rebirth, Damian was pissed off at Bruce and they had a fight and Damian left the manor completely. Bruce beat up Jason, then gave him a hug but still told him that he was banned from Gotham and all that abuse and manipulation was swept under the rug when DC came out with Urban Legends: Cheer, all they did with that story is lie and made-up stories about Jason wanting Bruce to go on a killing spree so Gotham can finally be the home to his beloved family (lies, lies, lies).

On top of all that we have the neglect, abuse and manipulation that Bruce had going on with Dick, ever since Bruce manipulated Dick into joining Spyral his actions haven’t faced any consequences (the family still believes that Dick was the one who lied about dying). And as recently as the end of Rebirth, Dick suffered from a head injury that left him amnesiac and Bruce absolutely didn’t care enough to look after him when he was so vulnerable and alone. DC had the audacity of having Bruce say that he was looking after Dick while Dick went from one villain manipulating and hurting him to another, and if we look at Batman’s run, we can see that he spent some of that time in a weird pit or playing catch the pussy with Selina in a tropical island.

So, taking all those things into account, I honestly believe that the Batfamily is a concept that absolutely does not belong in comics. If it were to be taken seriously then DC should come up with (organic, not forced) stories that make these characters connect once again, but they have to be careful, just because they can connect it doesn’t mean that everyone gets along and they have group chats and eat dinner together of Fridays, that would be a blatant lie and just too out there for their kind of dynamic, so, they should take things slow, start re-building what once was an make it better (if they want to make it work and feel like less of a cash grab).

I heard that there is a book with Cass and Steph being mentored as Batgirls by Barbara coming out in December, that to me is a good thing, what was done in Robin #5 was awful, Jason didn’t have or want to be there, Tim, what the hell was Tim doing there? The only ones that have gotten along with Damian and have had a solid relationship with him were Dick and Steph. Dick had a very nice moment with Damian in that issue, but Steph didn’t, they preferred to have Jason wanting to hug Damian instead (what the actual hell was that?).

Fandom’s Batfamily:

Fandom is a place where people can take any concept from anywhere and transform it into whatever they please. This fandom is just like any other in that matter, but I have noticed that sometimes the Batfamily Fandom tends to blur the lines between what’s fanon and canon. Their lore is so deep and established among people that they sometimes (willingly or not) make new readers or other people believe that how things and perceived in fandom is how things actually are in comics, and that is a huge problem.

Things like “Dick sent Jason to Arkham when the Joker was just a cell away”, “Jason has pit madness and when he gets mad his eyes turn glowy green”, “Dick was a horrendous brother to Jason before Jason died”, “Jason would be good friends with Tim and Cass”, “Jason is the only one that sees the world differently from Bruce and the other robins because he is the only one that comes from a life with no luxury” and so on and on and on…

All of those things are sometimes treated as the absolute truth by fandom and no matter how many times people have debunked and explained that those things aren’t part of comics’ canon because they are simply not true, fandom stills treats those things as the basis of their Batfamily lore.

That lore would be actually fascinating if people didn’t lose sight so easily of the fact that at the end of the day none of that lore can be applied to comics’ canon.

When you enter this fandom things can be extremely confusing and the way some of the characters are characterized are completely different to their canon characterizations, I knew that the Dick fandom was writing about was not real, but I had no idea that Tim being a coffee addict that hasn’t slept in five months and is an absolute genius in everything and anything that he does was completely out of character for him, I just thought that was true to his character in comics too. Something like that happened to me when I took a peek at Jason’s side of fandom, by that time I had read Red Hood/Arsenal, UtRH and New 52 RHatO (yeah in that order, Red Hood/Arsenal wasn’t finished yet though), with the already conflicting characterizations of those books, the first look that I had at fandom’s Jason confused me even more. After considering all those I decided that the Jason that I wanted to see and actually looked appealing to me was UtRH Jason.

Not all people in fandom read comics and that is ABSOLUTELY VALID, I have zero problems with people not liking the comic characterizations of the “Batfamily” characters, but that in itself also creates a rift between fans themselves.

Fandom’s Batfamily lore being introduced in comics’ canon:

This is obviously the intersection of the other two points and this is the biggest problem that I have with the Batfamily concept. The fandom lore has been leaking into comic’s canon for a while now but right now we are kinda drowning in it. Decisions that have been made recently in DC like, Jason giving up his guns, the group chats in Nightwing issues, the family dinners that were hinted at in Cheer #6, and Bruce having had at the ready a Red Hood suit for Jason with a Batman logo in its chest, have been proof enough that DC is planning on skipping any kind of solid writing for these characters to actually get along. We are never going to see these people sit down and talk about their differences and respect each other’s work ethics.

We are never going to get stories of actual essence that prove that these characters understand and care for each other, we are just going to be told that “all is good” and now everyone loves one another and they will build from there.

That is a problem for me.

And it also takes away duality from Gotham’s vigilantes, I know I say this too much but it’s the truth, putting all these characters under the ruling of Batman makes them all bland. Jason shouldn’t be part of any sort of group that involves Bruce! My god, I don’t want to see them interact anymore! Bruce has been absolute trash to Jason ever since he came back from the dead and I am tired of DC trying to make them be on good terms!

Jason and Bruce not getting along can co-exist with the fact that Jason isn’t a villain to Batman’s legendary hero. Jason is his own character, with his own morals and he doesn’t need a bat symbol on his chest or book logo to be relevant. Same with Dick, Tim and Barbara, let them be characters that can stand on their own because they have already done that!

Barbara as Oracle worked WITH Batman if she wanted, she had her own logo and had passed on the mantle of Batgirl because he had grown out of it.

Dick is Nightwing and has become an even better hero than Batman could even aspire to become, he has contacts with everyone in the DC universe, has led countless teams, he doesn’t NEED a batman logo on his book or to be constantly dragged back to him just to make the Bat more compelling.

Jason, my sweet Jason, he had his own logo! It was gorgeous and then Lobdell had the audacity to stamp a Batman logo in the middle of the book name and in Jason’s chest! Have we gone absolutely mad? Why did they do that? Lobdell’s constant back and forth with Jason and his feelings for Bruce, he respects him and he doesn’t, he kills and he doesn’t… each issue felt like a new take on the character! It was crazy!

And that has happened with everyone in the “family”. I will end this by saying that Bruce/Batman being at the centre of this “Batfamily” dynamic is the most laughable thing in the DC Universe. Batman isn’t family to any of the people that they constantly surround him with, he is a piece of shit.

Anyway Anon, I hope this answer doesn’t ruin your day and that you understand that even though I really don’t like the “Batfamily” concept, you and everyone else are allowed and encouraged to think differently!

Hope you have a marvellous day Anon!

#jason todd #red hood #dick grayson #nightwing #tim drake #damian wayne #batfamily #batfam #dc comics #asksss

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bigskydreaming · 3 years

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Dick has said it out loud explicitly, to Damian, that the mantle of Robin was his to pass on. Why do people still feel entitled to talk over him?

IMO? For the exact same reasons that people harp on so much about it being a retcon that Robin was Dick’s mother’s nickname for him and that originally he based the name on Robin Hood. To be perfectly honest that doesn’t make a damn bit of difference in regards to the fact that either way the point is still that Dick created Robin and it wouldn’t exist without him.....but the constant attempts to minimize its emotional significance to Dick and any kind of special attachment to it that he has and that the others can’t claim to share....

IMO these are just attempts to distance Dick from the mantle and make him seem less relevant or important to its very existence....freeing up people to focus on the importance of Robin as a symbol and a mantle to everyone else but without having to attribute any special credit or significance or respect to Dick as the originator of the mantle and the character that the other Robins are literally the legacy characters of.

It’s pretty annoying and very shortsighted IMO as actually, emphasizing the connection Robin has to Dick’s first family just enhances the weight and poignancy of Dick ultimately giving each of the other Robins his blessing when he didn’t have to and thus literally choosing them as his new family even without having to rely solely on a connection to each other via Bruce.

Of course people don’t seem to really want to do that either....given how rarely Dick’s blessing even gets acknowledged amid all the angst about who replaced who and who was fired and who wasn’t. It’s kinda ironic...I know so many fans HATE the version where Bruce fires Dick and so whatever they can not to acknowledge it and dismiss it as a retcon....and the ironic thing is? I get it. I totally see why it’s not something they want to run with and to be quite honest I can take it or leave it myself. I like exploring versions of events where Dick was fired, I like exploring ones where he wasn’t. Both have room for digging and delving imo.

My only beef with people who are soooo loud and quick to always dismiss the firing as just a retcon that doesn’t count.....is that in the pre Crisis version of events where Dick voluntarily gave up Robin and decided it was time to move onto a new identity....he gave Robin to Jason himself. The significance of that version of events isn’t JUST that it was Dick’s own choice to move to a new identity and that there was no conflict between him and Bruce about it...it was equally of significance that the Robin mantle was still viewed as inherently his, made by him, and his and his alone to pass on to a successor.

There is no version where Dick gave it up voluntarily but had no role in choosing Jason. The very premise of that mix and match honestly makes no sense because why make such a fuss about Bruce not having overstepped and fired Dick when it was never his place to say what he could claim as his identity or mantle on his OWN (fire him as his partner, sure that was always Bruce’s right, but tell Dick he couldn’t be the hero persona he created for himself? Fuck off Bruce LOL).

But my point is that mix and match makes no real sense because why preserve Bruce’s character from stepping between Dick and the mantle he created to honor his first parents....only to then turn right around and have Bruce still treat it as a Wayne family hand me down that Dick had outgrown when it was only EVER a Grayson family hand me down whose only connection to the Wayne family was through Dick being a member of both families and a bridge connecting them?

Whether Bruce fires Dick as Robin and gives it to Jason or JUST gives it to Jason without Dick making that choice....the one isn’t any better than the other because in both cases the actual offense is still the same: it was never Bruce’s to do ANYTHING with other than what Dick wanted done with it. Take on a new partner? Sure. But give him the mantle made of Dick’s work, Dick’s past, Dick’s every action as Robin? Nope.

So really the mix and match only serves one real purpose, for anyone who is intent on dismissing the firing as just a retcon but sees no need to uphold Dick choosing to give Robin to Jason instead of Bruce doing that...when Bruce doing that is literally part of the exact same retcon they’re so intent on discarding!

The only real purpose that mix and match serves is to keep Bruce centered in the Robin succession with his choice to give it to Jason being the basis of Jason associating Robin with Bruce. It keeps Bruce as the person Jason thinks of and feels connected to every time he thinks of why he’s Robin at all....because Bruce is the one who gave him the symbol that was already well known and full of meaning when Jason stepped into those shoes.

And then of course at the same time the mix and match also ‘lessens’ Bruce’s offense to Dick in taking Robin against his wishes WHILE also suggesting that Dick has less basis of feeling resentful of Bruce passing it on to someone else without his say so because it’s not like he was using it anymore right? And that was his own choice right?

But so what if it was? That doesn’t make it any less his creation and his legacy. It doesn’t make it any less a Grayson family connection and somehow more a Bruce Wayne family connection.

And that’s my beef. That’s the big irony of how flat out counter intuitive the mix and match retcon thing is and always has been. It only accomplishes half its objective....keeps the later Robins more connected to Bruce via it than they are to Dick via it....because it ultimately still runs through Bruce. But it fails to accomplish its secondary objective simply because refusing to acknowledge that Robin is intrinsically tied to Dick Grayson and not Bruce Wayne like....doesn’t actually make it any less true.

And that’s why imo the question should never have been “does your fic go with the version where Dick gives up Robin or the retcon where Bruce fires Dick” ...no, the right question in my mind should have always been “does your fic go with the version where Dick gives Robin to Jason or the retcon where Bruce gives it to Jason.”

And here’s the sticking point:

People always point to Bruce and Dick’s initial connection as the basis of their entire Dynamic Duo partnership. They understood each otrher via their parallel experiences losing their parents to murder. Bruce saw himself in a young Dick Grayson and he wanted to help Dick figure out a way forward to life after his parents’ death by drawing upon his own experiences.

But at the same time, they aren’t the same. Even with Bruce guiding Dick forward through his trauma and grief by following a map made of his own prior experiences, the end result was not the same for both....but it still used some of the same road marks on their respective journeys.

And this is why the Dynamic Duo were always emphasized as partners, as complementing each other, balancing each other....things they could only do because they were not the same and even using similar coping mechanisms to deal with their PARALLEL tragedies....produced entirely different results.

Both used their tragedies, their traumas, their PAIN to fuel their pursuit of justice and desire to help protect people. Both built new personas for themselves to use in their shared missions here....personas which embodied what they wanted to accomplish in these guises while at the same time reminding them why they were doing this.

But the personas they created ended up looking very different despite being born of similar crucibles...because they prioritized different things....and because they were honoring different people.

No matter how much Bruce and Dick have in common due to circumstances they are very different people who are both products of the families and places they come from....and thus even when using similar PROCESSES to build something out of their parallel tragedies, what emerged from the fires once they were done creating from their traumas.....don’t look the same. Aren’t interchangeable.

And neither are their creators.

Bottom line, it in my opinion flat out does not work to attribute more connection to Robin and the succession of that mantle to Bruce than Dick.....because Bruce would never, COULD never create that specific mantle out of his grief and pain any more than Dick ever would or could have created Batman out of his. Because they are too different. They needed different things out of their journeys forward, they were commemorating having had different journeys behind them, they were walking a shared path side by side but you can’t switch the clothes they made to wear going forward anymore than you can switch their footprints beneath their feet....they don’t fit into what the other made because it wasn’t made BY them and it wasn’t made FOR them.

So riddle me this, Batfandom: how does it make sense to focus on their parallel tragedies and how they moved forward from those in similar ways and on a shared trajectory, emphasizing how this is the entire basis of the Batman and Robin partnership from its very inception.....

Only to then view the role Bruce’s grief, his loss, his pain played in birthing the Batman mantle as something sacrosanct, undeniable....these things go hand in hand, there’s no separating them even when others end up wearing the Batman mantle as well, even through multiple generations....

But at the EXACT SAME TIME....treating Dick’s grief, HIS loss, HIS pain and the role all THAT played in birthing the Robin mantle....as something that barely comes up as a footnote the second you put the costume on anyone other than Dick? Something the others never even feel inclined to THINK about when reflecting on the mantle they’re wearing and where it came from and why it exists?

Why is the one rated as so less significant than the other....if the entire point of Batman and Robin is that both heroes were born from the ashes of tragedies so similar they understood each other in ways most other mentors and sidekicks never came close to?

How’s that work exactly?

Look, you’ll never catch me arguing that Bruce isn’t and shouldn’t be central to the Batman mantle, mythos, succession, etc. And I loved Dick as Batman too. But it ultimately should always come back to Bruce no matter how many people add to it in their own ways. Because it’s not just about what Bruce made.....it’s why he made it that matters too. The act of creating Batman is as important to the story of Batman as the created Batman.

And those very same reasons are precisely why Bruce shouldn’t be regarded as central to the ROBIN mantle, succession, etc.

To dismiss the Graysons as not being definitive to the greater Robin mythos is to say Thomas and Martha Wayne bear no special significance to the Batman mythos.

I love that being Robin connects these siblings and ties them all together as part of the same family. I love it being a shared family tradition that encompasses all of them and marks this family of choice as having been specifically chosen by not just it’s patriarch but each other.

But it’s not Bruce’s family tradition and it’s not a Wayne or even a Batman hand me down.

Because it doesn’t even come from Bruce’s family.

It comes from Dick’s. He brought it with him. It’s what connects him to what came before life with Bruce because as everyone knows but so many people often forget to give MEANING....

Dick Grayson, for as much as he is Batman’s son and is undeniably Bruce’s family, had a life of his own before he ever met Bruce.

He didn’t begin with Bruce Wayne. He didn’t come from Bruce Wayne.

And neither did Robin.

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forevercloudnine · 3 years

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arkhamverse riddlebat ship meme

(Continuing with the questions that @heroes-etc picked out for me, this set being from this ship meme.)

3. who is more afraid about the other leaving them?

Edward, hands down. Arkhamverse Riddler is maybe the neediest take on the character I’ve ever seen. Which is saying something, because the panel from “Questions Multiply the Mystery” where he writhes around on the floor begging for attention is permanently burned into my mind. He also clearly doesn’t take rejection well, as evidenced by the graffiti in his cell shown in a promotional image for Arkham Asylum (2009). J'ai aimé, j'ai souffert, maintenant... je hais. “I loved, I suffered, now I hate.”

It didn’t make it into the game proper (too subtexty, maybe, given a general lack of non-Batman people this could be referring to), but from my perspective it might as well have, since I experienced all the games second hand by sitting on the couch next to my brother while he swore at the Riddler challenges. Anyway, if perceived rejection has you writing French poetry on your cell wall in what looks concerningly like bodily fluids, then you probably won’t deal well with the concept of actually being dumped.

5. who is more likely to drunkenly confess?

Also Edward, given that he’s calling Bruce every five minutes. And if he’s not calling Bruce directly, he’s talking ABOUT Bruce in a public broadcast to all of Gotham. Eddie is the king of freudian slips sober, so one can only imagine what he would say in vino veritas. If he does get drunk, let’s hope for his sake that he opts to communicate through his private line to Batman rather than over every screen in Gotham.

6. who is more likely to push the other away (for any reason)?

Bruce, also hands down. Arkham Knight really goes out of its way to hammer in that Batman’s callous treatment of Riddler has wreaked havoc on Edward’s psyche, even if arguably Eddie had it coming. Riddler’s mole in the GCPD talks about this:

JT Walker: It used to be funny, you know [...] And then one day, it just wasn't funny anymore. It was pathetic. He stopped taking care of himself, got that crazy look in his eyes. I swear man, he's broken. You broke him.

Bruce’s subconscious gets a dig in on this topic via Joker hallucination.

“Joker”: Good for you, Bats! Eddie doesn’t need help. No, no, no. Beat ‘em up. Lock ‘em up. That’s the best medicine.

Even my brother, who would attempt to stab Arkhamverse Edward in the face War-of-Jokes-and-Riddles style if the games let him, felt guilty on Bruce’s behalf when Eddie started ranting about his photographic memory.

Riddler: I can summon your sneering features at will. That is, when they don't burst unbidden into my brain [...] I can remember every time you've hurt me. Sometimes I wake up, Dark Knight, to the feel of your hands around my neck, your carbon fiber created fists smashing my solar plexus.

I think because of this trait, one of the only ways this ship would work in Arkhamverse is if they came to an agreement during Arkham Origins (since Edward is... more or less... a vigilante in that game, albeit one that Bruce considers distasteful), well before their relationship gets to where it is in Arkham Asylum. The other way is if Bruce actually took the lesson Arkham Knight hammered over his head and tried to fix the damage done after faking his death. (In my mind there exists a many chaptered fanfic where after Batman “disappears” he moves to the second Batcave the games put under Arkham Asylum and takes on Joker’s “Eric Border” persona from the comics to become an orderly there. Whether it’s scarebat or riddlebat varies depending on my mood, but what’s consistent no matter what is that I have five WIPs on ao3 and I can’t write it until I finish at least one of them).

7. who picks fights more often?

Obviously Arkhamverse Edward is the most irritating person who has ever lived, so he kind of wins by default. But Bruce definitely holds his own in instigating unnecessary conflict with loved ones in this continuity. I’ll cut him some slack during Arkham Knight because one could argue that he spends most of the game half-possessed by an evil clown ghost, but it’s not like he’s much better in ANY of the other games. The bit in Arkham City where he lies to Talia’s face about being willing to spend the rest of his life with her so that she’ll give him access to the Lazarus Pit — even though if he was just honest and asked for it she probably would have helped him anyway, given that she DIES protecting him in the climax — is probably the best example of how he will infuriate people who love him for no logical reason. It’s a symptom of the post traumatic hyper vigilance, probably.

So if Edward did get the closeness to Bruce that his subconsciousness seems to be gunning for, he could look forward to the physical violence and public humiliation being replaced with the same well-intentioned gaslighting and emotional manipulation Bruce gives everyone but Alfred in these games. Actually, is Alfred the only one who’s even aware that he’s alive after Arkham Knight? Bruce, please tell your kids that you aren’t a pile of ash in the crater that used to be Wayne Manor.

9. who is more likely to withhold their feelings for the other?

The obvious answer is Bruce, because he keeps his emotions locked in a lead box buried like twenty feet beneath the floor of the Batcave (probably along with a bunch of kryptonite, since Superman is flying around the Arkhamverse somewhere). But honestly Bruce doesn’t seem to have a problem getting it on with supervillains in this continuity. He and Talia chat pretty casually about a recent romantic rendezvous in Metropolis when they meet in Arkham City. His emotional distance from Selina in Arkham Knight seems less like him withholding his feelings from her, and more like him not being over Talia’s death (or Joker’s, which... the narrative certainly focuses on more than Talia’s...).

So I think Edward would actually be more likely to withhold his feelings for Bruce. Even if Bruce approached him first, he’s too obsessed with the possibility of Bruce humiliating him to take any positive interaction (especially a romantic overture) at face value.

Riddler: You left me battered and demeaned in Arkham City. I am the Riddler, Batman. I don't suffer humiliation. I pay it back.

He’s not really wrong, either. Batman does humiliate him in Arkham City (by misleading Edward into thinking he’d let him die, no less); it’s the same embarrassment Edward inflicts on his own victims, so it’s not like he doesn’t deserve it per se, but it’s definitely not Bruce taking the higher ground.

Sticking him in his own trap is pretty vindictive, and Riddler’s weird commentary about not letting Batman have bathroom breaks during his revenge trials in Arkham Knight hints that Cash and the other guards might have made his (clearly unlawful!) punishment even more humiliating than we see on screen.

Riddler: Rule the seventh. Bathroom breaks will be administered on a discretionary basis. Should we find ourselves at a pivotal moment in your arduous journey to self-realization and defeat, I expect you to hold it in. Rule the eighth. Any accidents resulting from my strict enforcement of the seventh rule are to be considered your fault entirely.

So would Edward withhold his feelings for Batman? Yeah, probably. And it would probably take a lot of time and effort for Bruce to convince Edward that any feelings on his part weren’t just an attempt to humiliate Riddler further.

#riddlebat #edward nygma #riddler #arkhamverse #ship meme #every day #every day i think about the checkmate line

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redjaybathood · 3 years

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Alright, I said I wouldn't torrent it but here we are

it's not a full description of all options but rather my thoughts on it while watching. tl;dr version is: that was surprisingly fun! I would not say it's a good movie, a lot of stuff does not add app and their morals are actually more questionable than mine because I'm a honest "kill the Joker and move on with your life" kind of girl and they... are not that. But let's get into it:

1) "Robin cheats death" here we go!

So, Bruce finds Jason in the rubble, real banged up, and is hysterical. He is laughing, I suppose it should be from relief, but due to really flawed (read: half-assed) animation it reads more like deranged. It doesn't tell anything about the story but God, does it take me out of it.

Then, the POV switch.

Finally, finally we get Jason's story as told by Jason himself. And it's, you know, a story of a psycho killer (qu'est-ce c'est).

Ok but seriously: we start from depiction of his wounds, and then he rants at the frozen smiling faces of Batfam: Barbara, Dick, Bruce and a dog. So I suppose everyone is trying to keep positive, to help Jason get through it. And meanwhile, he is narrating about their faults. It does create a negative image. I mean, yeah, it's normal to lash out after horrific traumatic event, and often it's those who closest to you you're lashing out at, even if they're trying and have good intentions and all that. But you're seeing this, and you don't think: yeah, he's he's having a hard time, but that's not who he is. You're thinking: what a dick! Exaggerate much? Nobody asked you to go after the Joker!

I mean, I assume that's what an average person would think. It's framed in a way that is repulsive. And it's shown like it's true forever and ever: that's his own thoughts and in no way he's ever contradicts himself, feels conflicted or guilty about it.

Though personally: he's very uncharitable in his description. But is he wrong tho?

What makes it worse is how messy it all is. You really get the feeling: this guy is having a psychotic break in a bad way. And to polish it off, you get Jason completely going off the rails here at the end.

But God, do I love this version of Jason anyway?

It's not what I want from him or even think that could realistically happen. I mean, did the slower (as opposed to a dip in a Lazarus pit with an instant healing effect and psychosis as a side-effect) rehabilitation period and disfigurement really would have mattered that much? I am sorry, I do not think that having severe burns on his face is what would tip Jason over the barrel. The only way I see that being probable if Talia AL Ghul finishing school of young assassins actually came equipped with mental care (and that's why he's better - more rational, more focused on a mission with a clear goal and a time-frame, and a certain code - in the comics). And I just don't see it happening.

Also, the bandages? Is he still not healed enough to take them off, meaning he escaped the Manor as soon as he opened his eyes or maybe as soon as he was able to stand? Then this boy is good! Found arms and ammo, mowed down the same drug dealers he made his underlings in UtRH... All without any training from LoS, money, resources, backup... And Cheeta right under the nose of Batman and GCPD, Riddler...

Middle finger to the Black Mask! How could I not love it! I mean, shooting a rocket launcher at Black Mask, dropping him off a building and blowing him up with a conveniently placed gasoline truck? Holy shit, this man is a genius!

Ok, when Talia shows up with intentions of adopt and/or mmm make Jason Damian's father, I am starting to laugh again. How totally ridiculous this is?? What's her motivation here? I doubt it's "that boy my father and my beloved helped to fuck up is in need of a family and I can save on a babysitter". I mean, Joker is not her goal, it's her motivation for him.

And Jason's inner monologue! He's sour that Bruce left him home alone to fuck his girlfriend? Really? I think that as far as you don't ditch him if you have already made plans or make him sit on your crush's knees (that's totally a comics canon thing; Bruce made Jason sit on Selina), I don't think he would care who you fuck. And I certainly don't think he would care more than "asshole move" comment level. Not this weird grudge.

And I am so fucking sorry, but his narration is just... You can fit so many deliciously fucked up fics in this bad boy.

Though I prefer to think that Jason played himself: staying with Talia to twist Damian against both parents turned into Jason, actually, being twisted around a certain baby's finger. That's just how cute Damian is, I don't make the rules, that's what happened. I don't see him reuniting with Bruce ever or even having a mom-son relationship with Talia, ofc. I bet he rather kidnaps 3 yo Damian and goes off to live on a farm. Growing tomatoes and cucumbers and maybe even potatoes. Having a milk cow, maybe making cheese. Certainly there is a turkey and nobody in this household celebrates Thanksgiving.

That's how Damian and Jon meet, but that's just another story.

(actually, no, that's what I am using to fool myself into thinking that's not a total trash of a movie and they did not write Jason as a bitter, unreasonable, blood-thirsty man who will never be happy and dies alone, probably; that's just a vibe this Jason is letting off, imo)

2) Bruce saves Jason and dies

That's actually a very nice Jason. I would do without Bruce saying "Promise you won't kill Joker/killing won't bring you peace" (like, Bruce is speaking like someone with experience, is there something we don't know about this Bruce? Otherwise it's just a chicken soup bullshit and I would rather he focused on Jason's wellbeing rather than his rule)

2.1 Catch Joker

So far so good. Tentatively, it's the best variant. Sanest one I think. and prettiest. And funniest. It's an experience I would recommend 10/10. I cannot put it into words.

The ending hits hard. Joker is good in his role as a villain here. He makes Jason doubt, he makes you doubt Jason doing the right thing.

If Jason reaches his goal, isn't he losing?

But wait, there's more?

It turns out Jason here is even more crazy than the previous one? It turns out all his clever schemes to take over Gotham underbelly without killing is a delusion? Because he did all that - only by killing a shit tonne of people in the process and blacking it all out?

And we're supposed to believe in Joker's words, right.

Eh, I won't. Joker is a professional gaslighter - Bruce is really an amateur beside him.

It ends on a question: will Jason kill the Joker? God, I hope so! I would prefer it ASAP. But after monologue it's fine too. Like: so did I kill all those people? Alrighty, nothing stops me from killing Joker then. I am going to do my job, and fill accomplished, and then, only then, I will find a safe space to freak out.

Yeah, that would have been a HE for me, believe it or not.

2.1.2 Kill the Joker.

Whaaaat? Another choice? And I can kill the Joker? I mean, does it really have to be a multiple choice question? For intrigue, I suppose.

I waited since the eighties for that picture. Joker, lying in a pool of blood with a round hole in the middle of his forehead.

Why so sad though? Like, why everyone feel like it's actually Batman who died or something. And what's up with Luthor?

Oooooh, and it's "shit on Talia's character" time! Nice (not).

Again, though: it does not feel real. Why would Talia seek Jason out with a zombie Bruce and make them fight? That's dumb. It's even dumber than her actually having sex with mentally incapacitated zombie Bruce.

Going in, I thought this movie really hates Jason. Turns out, it really hates Talia.

2.1.2.1 Life

I mean, it's the nicest ending for Jason I expect from this movie? And it has absolutely heartbreaking ending for Bruce. Nice one, DC/Warner Brothers!

2.1.2.2 Death

That's actually an okay ending for Jason and a good one for Bruce: Bruce, being in a position he was, lost any hope, and choose to die rather than be further corrupted. I am at piece with this ending.

Jason - we know he could heal, and get his life around, so that's what makes this option heartbreaking. And yet, at this point of his story, after he killed Joker and, possibly, quite a lot of people too, without even knowing it... It's okay to end the line here.

Next: I cannot believe I am doing this, but.

2.1.1 Saving Joker

So this part confirms that Jason did kill people. I knew choosing to save Joker is a bad move! Wasn't this movie supposed to convince me it's not?

But no: Barbara rejects Jason asking for help and Dick tries to arrest him, and everything ends like after the Joker dies. Alright then, why shouldn't he kill Joker? He should. He probably would have better off not killing Bruce though.

2.2 Kill the Joker

So. How funny it is that the most stable and mentally healthy Jason so far is the one who planned to kill the Joker right from the start?

The question it's asking: what if Joker is really a changed man? What if he really is trying not to be that Joker anymore? Should Jason spare him?

My answer is obviously no.

But this is actually a non-negotiable. You can't opt out of killing Joker here. That's telling.

What you can choose, is between allowing to be taken into custody and trying to fight his way out.

2.2.1 Hands up.

That's my batshit Jason right here. I love him. You are doing great, baby! And look rough and handsome too.

2.2.2 fight his way out

Red Robin time, finally! A bird of prey, if you will.

And of course he is crazy and kills criminals indiscriminately.

I think his money are tighter, somehow, and style is less florishing than the Hush one but it does the job. Criminals losing heads for this Red Robin.

Up until he gets really unlucky.

2.2.2.1 heads

(Two-Face has to do good and save Gotham from Red Robin)

Not today, Satan!

I would do without a kid, just after saving Jason, trying to read him a lecture and pointing a electric gun on him.

That's a Tim Drake making Jason come back to Jesus? Ughhh but I will forgive it for an absolutely ridiculous Batkid.

2.2.2.2 tails

(Two-Face has to kill Jason)

That is actually even worse! Two-Face is the one who reads a lecture to Jason and makes him change his ways!

A bit anticlimactic, tbh. But the moral of this branch of the story is: killing Joker is good and great but you probably should stop at him. And I have no issues with that except for how they never showed what it would look like.

3) that's a retelling of utrh

#death in the family #jason todd #bruce wayne #joker #honestly a great food for fanfiction and yet I have not seen any stories inspired by this movie

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whetstonefires · 3 years

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Hi Whetstonefire. I have a question about the comic where Nightwing cheats on Starfire with Barbara: What happens directly after that? Does Starfire find out that Nightwing cheated on her? And, if so, how does she react? I've read online that (according to Marv Wolfman) Starfire is the opposite of everything Batman taught Nightwing to be and that Batman taught Nightwing to be repressed and cold. What did Nightwing contribute (emotionally) to the relationship between him and Starfire? (Cont.)

(Cont.) From what I can tell, from online, Nightwing was adamant about standards of mercy and monogamy - how do you think, if Starfire were to be written as her own character and not written around Nightwing and his emotional needs, she would handle and react to that? (This bit is an FYI for other readers: this is just speculation, not hate. Sorry about that.) Sorry about the questions! Have a nice day!

Okay there are so many separate questions packed in here! I may miss some of them lol and I do not want to put in the hours it would take to produce an orderly response to all this, so this post is going to be a mess.

Initial query and important point: the cheating story was out of continuity. Like, literally, not just by ‘being rejected by the fanbase,’ it was just this weird retcon oneshot that seems to have been some sort of fuck-you to Nightwing or his fans or something. So no, it had no in-setting fallout lol. It, in more ways than most comics, didn't exactly happen.

It was just this weird thing where Dick hooks up with Babs before giving her a wedding invitation, which is both out of character for him in general and out of step with where he was leading up to the wedding--he was desperate to get married so they could have some Normal Stable Adulthood Happiness; the choice to recharacterize him as a fuckboy who regards it as a loss of freedom isn’t congruent, on much more than the level of principle.

As far as how Kori would feel about it, if she had learned...that is very hard to say. Apart from how it would require her to reinterpret everything about where their relationship stood at that point, the data is very unclear, and I don’t even have all of it. Gonna back up to cover some of the rest of the ask, get some context here.

So this actually brings up two of my biggest gripes with Wolfman’s NTT--weird Kori characterization and the weirdly negative interpretation of Batman as parent that backwashed heavily into other titles and influenced the character for the worse, in ways we're very much still dealing with today. 😩

The latter is pretty self-explanatory, though Wolfman’s take that the main thing Bruce taught Dick was repression does shed light on some writing choices and make others funnier. But Kori. Oh my lands.

So, item one, I wouldn't say that Kori is overall opposite Bruce, or even of his philosophy? There are just some very major points of opposition. She isn’t emotionally buttoned-down like at all, especially about positive feelings, although considered realistically with all the bullshit they’ve piled into her backstory she absolutely leans on repression to cope and stay positive, which makes her a lot like Dick actually.

To an extent, she was clearly written around foiling Dick’s Batman-derived traits in the same way that Robin was written to foil Batman, bright and glad and aerial. A Flamebird to his Nightwing in theme if not in name.

You could do some interesting stuff with that, and the bildungsroman aspects of this period of Dick’s life, like he has two roads forward in terms of how he’s going to define ‘adulthood’--does it necessarily require becoming more like his mentor-father, for good and ill, or can he make Kori in part a destination, as it were, and create an adult self that is derived from who he has always been as well as the man he’s modeled himself after?

To an extent I think this even was one of the things going on in ntt but like. Only a little bit.

(Given how much like Bruce Babs is in most of the ways Kori isn’t, especially once she’s Oracle, you could make a case for her as love interest being like. Symbolic of his not being in a rebellious phase? That gets weird and oedipal really fast tho lol.)

Okay stepping down one meta level lol, the thing about answering the 'what would kori' question here is that her character is deeply bound up in her culture, about which we are told and shown a great many contradictory things. Any attempt to read her as an independent character has to tackle not only the gender stuff you allude to and these inconsistencies, but how much of the sheer mess of her is rooted in racism.

'Fantastic' racism, technically, because Tamaraneans aren't real, but the 'taming the savage' narrative that kept surfacing between them and the language used in reference to it is just. The existing racism of presumably the writers, placed in Dick's mouth, and it's super gross. I hate it so much.

(I had a faint hope when they cast her for live action it was with a deliberate intent to directly tackle and better that history, but lollllllll nah. At least they didn’t double down in it tho! Can you imagine, with a black actress, in this day and age....)

So to predict and comprehend Kori, you have to make a lot of calls about Tamaran as a civilization. I like to slightly privilege stuff established earlier if there's no good reason not to, so while much is made over time of her inappropriate rage and the violence she was raised to normalize, I think what she says in her first appearance is good to keep in mind: in her culture, kindness is for friends and cruelty is for enemies. She doesn't understand why the Titans seem to have this backwards.

Kori is not a merciless person. She’s very empathetic, as a rule. With people she loves, she is self-destructively forgiving. That's not a trait only Dick benefits from--her family keeps betraying her in new exciting ways, and she keeps letting them.

Her arc of growing away from that habit is however greatly crippled by centering Dick in the narrative and by the awful 'civilizing' overtones that keep coming into it. When she comes back after the 1986 breakup, still married to Karras, she brings with her a commitment to doing things the Earth way--to eschew lethal force as more than a compromise with her friends’ values, but as a deliberate choice.

This deserved a lot more space and time than it got, and the fact that it didn’t get it is only somewhat due to her being subordinated to Dick and to general writing fail; a lot of it’s just the team book problems of everything happening to everybody all at once.

I mean, Dick’s journey later on to deciding he loves her enough to date her even though she’s married and it’s technically against his principles was packed into this absolutely heinous issue where he was inspired by a woman refusing to separate from her husband who’d just threatened to kill her and their kid with a knife, until being stopped by Nightwing. Because he’s apologizing for what he did.

This is his inspiration for accepting Kori’s marital status! It’s supposed to be heartwarming, as far as I can tell! Not heavyhanded messaging that this is a self-destructive terrible choice in which Kori will inevitably harm him somehow! This issue is pro ‘consensual open relationships under certain circumstances’ and also ‘giving abusers another chance’ as expressions of love. Welcome to the 80s ig.

(Notable is that the wife in this issue was black and the husband and son both looked very white, so it’s probably her stepkid and she probably wouldn’t get to keep him if they separated; this is not even vaguely treated as a factor.)

Point is, everyone was getting too little space to actually go through the amount of development they were getting, and it was clumsily handled; it’s not just her.

In an overlapping period Gar processed his issues with his adoptive father with whom he constantly fought and their shared trauma over the rest of their family (the Doom Patrol) having died violently not long ago via a batshit several-issue storyline where Mento went crazy, created supermutants, and abusively mind-controlled them to attack the Titans. It is literally all like this.

Back to the infidelity thing, now. So much to unpack. So like I mentioned above, their first big breakup, while partially driven by Dick’s existing conflicted feelings about their different ideas about things like ‘killing in battle’ and ‘her identity and loyalties being tied up with her home planet,’ is explicitly over different takes on monogamy.

When Dick is breaking up with her, Kori makes it clear she thinks it’s totally reasonable to have both a husband and a love, since Karras also has someone he loves and they’re both fine with it, but the story doesn't really explain how nonmonogamy works on Tamaran, or even if it's practiced outside the context of political marriage. They do do a sort of...soulbond fusion dance...thing, as part of the ceremony, so marriage is definitely serious business. There are so many levels of cultural difference that get poor to no development.

But to return to the weird ooc retcon cheating story: because of this context, no matter what her personal norms are, Dick specifically casually sleeping with someone else would be something for Kori to be mad about, because of the hypocrisy.

Then there’s the Mirage Incident, which I haven’t read through properly and which was very poorly handled by the writers. Kori is upset about Dick having slept with someone impersonating her and there’s a general vibe of this being treated by Dick’s social circle as unfaithfulness even though he was in fact sexually violated by deceit; it famously sucks.

We still don’t learn a lot here about Kori’s ideas about monogamy, from what I have seen, because her focus is mostly on feeling like Dick doesn’t care about her enough or in the right way since he couldn’t tell the difference. Which is an understandable feeling, even if it’s not an appropriate reaction to have at him at this time.

What Nightwing contributed emotionally........hm. This is a mess, honestly; he was all over the map, and not just because of having Brother Blood in his head. I cannot speak definitively on this, it’s too inconsistent.

For most of their relationship, Kori was the more intensely invested one, the one to initiate and the one who was shown at length to be excited to come home at the end of the day to their shared apartment because her boyfriend was there to see and talk to. If we set aside his more egregious white male bullshit, Dick was pretty emotionally available most of the time, though? They were cute.

Since they split up a lot of ink has been spilled making him less into her in retrospect, but he was pretty invested--leaving her coincided with mental breakdowns both times, and it wasn’t even mostly because she was doing his emotional processing for him, because she wasn’t, although it’s fair to say he often fell into using the relationship as an emotional crutch. Kori was definitely doing the same thing though so...it wasn’t the most balanced relationship in fiction history, but apart from slight codependency and the racism, it was decent enough.

She gets more evenhanded development than most superhero love interests, honestly, because she was costarring in a team book. She had her own storylines. She had other friends.

Mostly both of them just needed some space to finish growing up and stop being retraumatized long enough to process some of the existing trauma better, and I think they could have gone on being good for each other for a long time.

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lostplay · 3 years

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Game 21: Batman The Telltale Series: The Enemy Within To say Telltale got around when it came to licenses is an understatement. One of the biggest reasons it fail was because it was always taking on too many projects, and for a long time, I thought it was because Telltale didn’t actually care about making a good choice system or care about the material at hand. On revisit, I have found time and time again, the opposite is indeed true. Telltale crafts a lot of these stories well, and try to help set up their own versions of characters, plots, and world building. While The Enemy Within is a great example of Telltale creating something new from old, it sadly still has a lot of technical problems and decision issues that plague it’s otherwise great tale. Enemy Within being effectively the second season of the Telltale Batman universe, we are given a small glimpse of what happened and what choices we made during the first game. Aside from a few off handed mentions in the first episode, the choices you made in the first game just feel irrelevant after the fact, and the choices that did matter, matter very little. This isn’t much of a testament of the choice system in this game, as it kinda has a similar, but different problem. The majority of choices in Enemy Within just don’t really feel they impact much or really feel like conflicting choices. Most of the choices seen either contribute to an overall relationship dynamic or just feel so weighted one way that it’s a clear choice for most people to go with the other option, often leaving 70/30 polls at the end of these episodes. On the technical side of things, Enemy Within does look better than it’s previous season, but sometimes models can feel a bit off pending on movement timing. Fighting has been far more refined to feel like a fighting sequence, but there is still a lot of one missed key deaths that have seemed to cause Telltale to increase the leeway on key accusation instead of Heavy Rain’s far more interesting flown combat script system. It does feel like Enemy With takes 1 step forward tho and 2 steps back; as they have a number of fights that do feel pretty stunning to actually playthrough compared to the stilt action of most telltale games. Detective work is pretty much thrown away after the first episode too, as the second season is far more interested in a certain dynamic more than anything else.

Relationship dynamics are always the most interesting part of telltale game’s as the iconic, “____ will remember that” is often a trope found in a lot of them. So, of course, the iconic duo, Joker and Batman would have a larger focus on their relationship dynamic compared to everyone else in this series. While Joker, aka John Doe, played a minimal role in the last season, he is brought in heavily for the second season. Perhaps what is the most compiling thing about John Doe and Batman is more so how there relationship dynamic can change so drastically pending on your actions as both Bruce or Batman, making the origins of Joker itself far more multiple choice, and either far more connected to Batman than before or someone that was simply a lost cause. While the relationship with Joker and Batman has always been a prominent dynamic in the series, it was never something that was established with Bruce/Batman having all the power. John Doe is honestly just a really mentality unstable patient that is looking for support, and in this way telltale actually makes us empathize with him. Not to say that their isn’t other relationships or characters in this story that aren’t interesting, as I do enjoy these versions of the Riddler and Harley compared to how we usually get them. Still every relationship takes a backseat to John Doe and Bruce/Batman, and really that’s what makes this season far more interesting than the last.

While I don’t think we will find this version of Telltale’s Batman any time soon, I honestly enjoy my time with both games, and consider the overall experience a positive one. Any problems I had with this season were often minimal in comparison to the majority of Telltale’s other works, and while I do think it was both enhanced and suffered from the focus of one relationship, I don’t think I would trade that unique approach with the usual same old same old. It’s both a testament to Telltale’s writing skills and the staying power of these DC characters.

#Batman Telltale Season 2 #Batman Telltale #John Doe Batman #Batman The Enemy Within #LOSTLEAD8R #Lost Reviews #lostleader

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akimmito · 4 years

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I’ll still be with you

First | Previous | AO3 | Next

Master List

Chapter 3: Moon

Initially, I would only be in Paris for a couple of days, but that night changed everything.

No matter how much I think about it, I can't see that it was otherwise.

Nor do I want it to have been.

Red Robin jumps off Wayne Tower when he hears Red Hood calling for a backup in a showdown against Penguin's some goons, he's the closest to his location and the others are busy on the other side of town dealing with their own problems.

Nights like that, cold and with bright silver clouds that insist on hiding the moon, remind him of that night in Paris, of her blue eyes illuminated by a moon that managed to escape from the spongy trap in which it was. He smiles a little, even though he should be more focused on his mission, but the feeling of running and flying through the skies of Gotham is something he will miss, his nights are numbered.

Stopping the Penguin's goons isn't easy, they managed to cause them a couple of problems but they finish fast enough to hear Batman's words perfectly. Tim barely registers what Jason says next to him, focusing solely on Bruce's voice.

"When everyone's done, we'll see you in the cave."

Cold, distant, like a dagger lazily embedded in a lung. The tone he occupies when one of them has disappointed him, lately it's Damian who has received it, even though the teenager has stopped being the ten-year-old brat who came to the mansion, but what for them was four long years of struggle for Bruce it was just a few months. He didn't see Damian's growth, nor did he see his downfalls, nor did he see what ended up throwing down the barriers that had been created years ago between him and everyone else.

Batman doesn't see that his Robin is capable of leaving the nest, he just needs to realize that his wings are strong enough to fly alone. Tim had a hard time, but perhaps it was because of the chains with which he tied his wings himself, convinced that he needed them.

Back in the cave, Tim waits for Damian's arrival. They're not the closest, years of conflict don't disappear in months, but the last year has been difficult for Robin, stumbling again where it was already leveled ground and he cannot avoid the guilt generated by the thought that it was his obsession with bring back to Bruce what has generated the unhappiness of the youngest.

When Damian arrives, their gazes meet for a brief moment, but it's enough for him. Tim leaves the cape and hood on the back of the chair and walks out, not wanting to hear the inevitable debacle in which the Batman-Robin relationship will end, a relationship of partners that he fought so hard to reestablish and that, without being able to do anything to stop it, it has crashed into an unbreakable wall. This time it's not Damian's fault, no, it's Bruce's fault.

He enters the mansion and walks aimlessly, stopping in the dining room as he lets himself be invaded by the memories of his adolescence being Robin, then becoming Red Robin, the moments when he felt lost and the few times he thought were if not happy, enjoyable.

It feels as if tomorrow everything will disappear in front of his eyes, but it's only the inevitable goodbye to the only place he had ever considered home that forces him to reminisce about those times. These were not simple times, there is nothing simple about being a vigilante, but it was fun.

He settles into a chair and waits, the what? He's not sure, but he knows to wait. Learn to trust your instincts, she had said, you trust the facts too much, sometimes what the soul says can be right. Five months have passed since the last time they met, it will soon be her birthday.

"Master Tim."

"Alfred, how is Damian?" He doesn't look at the butler, knowing this is the last time he speak to him.

"Master Bruce has seated him on the bench indefinitely." The old man goes to the kitchen leaving Tim alone again, at that moment he directs his gaze towards him. He lets out a sigh before standing up, his gaze now fixed on the finely varnished table. "You know, Master Tim? The day you first arrived at the mansion, I didn't think you would become so important to this family. "

"Alfred..."

"Please take good care of yourself. Don't forget to sleep at least four hours a day, eat all three times of day, and send me photos of the family you will form. "Tim feels his eyes sting when he sees Alfred's kind smile, especially when the man hands him a small package of his name.

To: Timothy Jackson Drake-Wayne

A memory of: Alfred Pennyworth

"I...Thank you…."

Tim hugs the butler tightly, feeling the hug, clinging to his understanding and affection.

"As soon as I settle in, I will get in touch with you.” He assures the man who became an example for him, Alfred was always a constant in everyone's life, always close, supporting them in the most difficult moments and comforting them when the anguish overcame them. The cornerstone of the Wayne family.

"I'll be waiting."

Tim allows himself a small smile, he will miss Alfred very much. He may be the person he will miss the most in the whole family, even above Dick.

"Al... Oh, Tim. Something happens?" Dick looks curiously at the hug, the atmosphere in the dining room feels gloomy, and it gives him the feeling that not only has he interrupted an important moment but he also just learned something that he should not, even if he does not know what it is.

"I'll go, Dick."

"You go? Why?"

"Master Tim has a very important mission." He smiles again, but without the shadow of goodbye reflected in his gesture.

A very important mission, indeed.

The next days he occupies to put Wayne Enterprise in order, weighing in whether to leave everything in the hands of Bruce or place Damian as a direct heir. He also begins to appear less and less as Red Robin, not for his family, but so that the city does not suddenly feel the disappearance of one of its vigilantes.

Subtly and gently he loses himself in his routine, cutting off communication with the family. The only thing that interrupts his final preparations is an unexpected visit from Dick, catching him off guard after returning early from a patrol.

Nightwing awaits him on the roof of his building, holding a box of cakes and two coffees.

The two guards settle on the old theater, both with a coffee and cakes in the middle of the two.

"When you go?" Dick breaks the silence, his gaze is fixed on the dark horizon.

“Two more weeks, there are still projects I need to oversee on Wayne Enterprise, plus an upgrade for the steeple that I want to get finished.”

"Alfred said it's an important mission, does it really require you to disappear?" Dick looks at him worriedly and Tim can't help wanting to tell him everything, to trust his brother like he used to, but he can't it.

"Yeah.”

"When you will return?"

"I'll not come back…"

They are both silent, focused on anything but each other. The truth told is too awkward and sour, the realization that it might be the last conversation they have and that they will never see each other again weighs heavily on their shoulders.

Small drops begin to fall on them, but neither is fazed.

"Tim. Take Damian with you."

"What?"

“He… Damian hadn't killed anyone, not even by accident, in three years; It sure feels bad on its own, but B doesn't make it any easier. I tried, Timmy, but I can't help him and if he keeps wanting to prove himself to B, it'll get worse. ”The rain begins to fall more insistently on them and is their signal to get up.

Tim lets him into his residence, allowing him to settle in while he goes over the words spoken by the older man, he removes the hood and leaves it on one of the sofa, revealing the dark circles and the paleness of his face.

"When was the last time you slept?"

"Five days, I need to finish everything..."

"You must rest a little."

Tim smiles bleakly and settles on the couch across from his brother.

"I'll rest when I get out of Gotham… About Damian, are you sure you want me to take him?" He examines the older man's face, his mask has been removed, and his expression lines reflect the tenseness of his entire body. "The last word is his, but if he accepts, you will no longer see him. You adore it, if you could you would have adopted him."

"And that's why I want the best for him, if I take him to Blüdhaven it will be the same. I never get rid of B nor in another city, will the same happen to him... I want Damian to be happy, to find his own path without fear of disappointing someone, without the expectations that being a Wayne puts on him. "

"Fine." He gets up and walks into his little secluded workroom, the only computers that aren't connected to either WE or the cave or the bell tower, has his own technology designed by him and funded by Drake Inc., no way let Batman know about the information stored there.

And if you are taking Damian, he must include him in his plans and let her know.

"Tim, what are you doing there?"

"You asked me to take Damian, I must have everything ready to offer to come with me."

Later, he goes into his work ignoring Dick, even ignoring the goodbye and the request to rest; Tim has all his concentration focused on the new documents that he must write and the legal papers that he must forge in case of taking Damian with him.

Damian won't accept it, least of all coming from me.

If I have the documents ready tomorrow, I will look for him... I hope this doesn't delay my plans.

------

Tag list: @incredulous-reader @dnsakina

#ml x dc #maribat #maribat au

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juiceboxman · 3 years

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Thoughts on the Snyder Cut of Justice League

Watched the Snyder Cut a few days ago, here are my thoughts. SPOLIERS AHEAD:

1) Characters are presented WAY better. Batman is less goofy, Wonder Woman has more kick ass scenes, as does Aquaman. Snyder REALLY got Mera right, woman straight up nearly gave Steppenwolf an aneurism which I applaud Snyder for showing because it shows how much of a BOSS Mera is. Cyborg has an actual story arc which is great. Flash is still quite awkward but he has a good heart so once you get used to his awkwardness he’s pretty good

2) All the footage is original Snyder film plus reshoots he done. You can tell which is reshoots depending on quality of CGI and Green Screen. Martian Manhunter was very obviously one of these editions, which I’ll get to later. Most of Whedon’s scenes are gone, which is good for the most part cause outside of the ethical issues that taints those films with Whedon’s behaviour on set, they just straight up conflict with the tone. So less quippy jokes and weird creepy scenes (like the one where Martha was talking how Clark referred to Lois as “the thirstiest girl he’s ever known” like...have you met Clark Kent? What on gods green earth would make you think he would say ANYTHING like that let alone to his MOTHER??? Also that weird scene where Flash was lying on top of Wonder Woman, cause Whedon is weird) however there was one scene (with Bruce and Diana touching the mouse at the same time) which felt quite Whedony. One scene I would have liked to see that would have gotten kept in was Batman’s whole “save one person” speech to Flash. Think that solidified Batman as a veteran hero and makes him look like a person who actually wants to help people rather than punch people, which a lot of batman writers tend to forget to mark on. Without that, nobody gives Flash any guidance in this film and I was disappointed in that

3) Cyborg was great. His powers are clearly and well defined, honestly the way Zac presented his abilities made this dude look super scary. But he has a good heart and Ray Fisher CRUSHES IT. Honestly when Victor teared up in the car with his mum, I was sold. Like this big charismatic quarterback being brought to tears...you just don’t see that in a lot of films, with men typically being presented so stoic and tough. I’m glad we got to see that. Fisher is a fantastic actor and I’m happy he got way more scenes in this movie. Hope to see his Cyborg show up again some day

4) Movie looks stunning. Snyder really has a great visual style. Like the whole scene where Vic is playing football is just gorgeous. Also the Flash’s powers look really cool, love his running scenes

5) I don’t think Martian Manhunter should have been in the movie. Narratively doesn’t really fit and it creates some serious plot issues within the universe. Questions like “why didn’t he do anything in MoS?” Or “why didn’t he do anything in BvS?” having him in this movie kind of feels off. Like how he imitated Martha to give Lois a pep talk, like thats a very serious moment for Lois- do you not think she’s going to bring that up with the real Martha??? Also, the ending with Martian Manhunter was just so weird. Like just showing up to say “Good job, Bruce. Oh, here’s my superhero name. Call me!” felt quite fan servicey and the CGI for him looked bad imo. Think in future should try full body makeup if they wanna do Manhunter in the future

6) I don’t think the Cut had to be four hours, there was just a lot of pretty shows, a lot of slow motion (seriously, like way too much slow motion. Reminds me of that bit from Garth Mangenari’s Darkplace where they talk about how because episodes were 8 minutes shorter than they should have been they just made everything non dialogue slow motion to drag out the time) and a lot of information is repeated. Think with a good editor this could be cut down to three hours, which I think would make a more concise and better film

7) Villain’s are more compelling. Steppenwolf is more interesting, we actually get to see some Darkseid and I think Snyder does a great job at showing the threat level they pose. Also actually gives a reason why Darkseid is interested in conquering earth, which is pretty neat. All in all the lore in the movie is pretty tight

8) I don’t buy how Superman will turn evil. Like you’re telling me this good little farmer’s boy loses his fiancee and then decides to nuke the world? Nah, I don’t buy it. I would however have bought it if the resurrected Superman showed some emotional development complications. Which I initially thought they were going for as Clark had issues remembering who he was, but after five minutes he was back to normal so crisis averted. Shame cause I think that would have been interesting, see a Clark Kent who on paper is the same guy but now he has no empathy. Would have been really tragic and would have shown the price of ressurection

9) I would have liked an explanation in the movie as to why Superman had a black suit. I know Snyder has said in interviews about how the suit is a call back to his homeworld, because at the time of its destruction everyone was basically dressed in black. However there’s no explanation as to why t is this case in the movie. In the comics, Superman had to wear the black suit because it was part of the ressurection procedure. Not so much in the movie, another case of fan service that didn’t make much sense

10) Epilogue stuff was interesting. At that point in the end I felt like Zac was just pitching movies. We get Ben Affleck’s Batman movie with Deathstroke. We get this super weird apocalypse movie with a rag tag justice league which I would honestly love to see. Also throughout the movie you get a lot of set up for the Flash’s movie, referencing the time stuff so I think that if the Flash movie ever gets out of development hell it’ll be Flashpoint. A lot of it did feel a tad fan servicey. Snyder said he put the joker in there at the end cause Ben and Jared never played off one another, seeing them on screen together I think Jared is definitely the perfect Joker for Affleck’s Batman. Think he could dial it down a little- like don’t be sending used condoms or rats to you co-stars please and then years later denying you ever did that shit

All in all, the movie was too long but I found myself enjoying it quite a lot. Fare better than the Frankenstein movie Whedon and WB cut together four years ago. I really don’t think they should have rushed into Death of Superman story so quick, or try to rush into a shared universe quite like in BvS either. That said if you don’t like Snyder’s style, you’ll probably not like the film. I personally like his style and I really enjoyed it, though I can admit it is a bit flawed.

Its actually quite remarkable that this movie got made in the first place. I think if it wasn’t for the massive fan pushback and the fact that a worldwide pandemic occurred, this movie would have still been a pipe dream. I don’t think we’re getting any of the movies pitched in Snyder’s epilogue.

Like this movie going to streaming is not going to break even the $70 million dollars pumped into it and the audience that wanted this movie in the first place is too small to justify making more movies like this. There’s also the fact that WB put little to no money in marketing for the movie, so they’re trying to bury it for whatever reason. Like most people had no idea this movie was happening, but they know about all the Star Wars and the Marvel Shows. That’s bad marketing and you can’t help but feel its deliberate

In conclusion, I really liked the movie. I thought Zack did a great job under the circumstances and I’m glad he got to finish it. I know he had to step back because of a family tragedy so I’m really happy he got to finish his movie

#justice league #zack snyder #snyderverse

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taffystake · 4 years

Photo

So......Are you ready for the encore?

Taffy’s Take: Dark Nights Death Metal #1

Written by: Scott “Hallowed Be Thy Name” Snyder

Pencils by: Greg “Panikiller” Capullo

Inks by: Jonathan “Motorbreath” Glapion

Colors by: FCO “Fixxxer” Plascencia

So....it has all finally come to this. The finale. The ultimatum in a long saga of stories that started in the original Dark Nights, began showing its hand in No Justice, and was fully fleshed out with Snyder’s Justice League run. And it opens with a resounding boom that rivets your attention straight to the story and won’t let go until the pages run out.

We open with Sergeant Rock, preparing himself and an unknown audience for a conflict to come. When or where this is set is somewhat unknown, but the massive futuristic assault rifle he levels to emphasis his last line says that Rock is somewhere in the modern day.

After the credits page, featuring a map of the current world of the DCU and a message that calls Death Metal an “Anti-Crisis”, we cut to Wonder Woman, hard at work deconstructing the invisible jet with a buzzsaw-like device in the literal depths of hell (Originally Themyscira) when someone interrupts her over approaching people. Said person is the flaming, green-covered skeleton that Swamp Thing has become in this world and he says that someone is coming with prisoners. And as Diana walks through her prison to meet these people, we get to see the absolute myriad of villains entombed in the place, including Joker. Once they reach the quartet, we get to meet Batmage, a red-suited Batman, a cloaked figure, and.....Bat-Tyrannosaurus. After some very terse banter, Diana is forced to throw this unknown prisoner into the pits of Tartarus. But before he is cast into the depths, he mutters something to Diana that makes her recognize the person for a moment.

After that, we are shown Castle Bat and given a backstory of a specific field within that area and the rebels who died within the tunnels underneath it before pulling back to a panel of a castle, with The Batman Who Laughs’ twisted Robins and Joker dragons dominating the structure. And then we meet The Batman Who Laughs’ League, composed of pairings of heros and Dark Multiverse Batmen. We have Harley Quinn and Dr Arkham, Aquaman and Bathomet, Wonder Woman and Batmage, and Mister Miracle and Darkfather. With each of them, we get a small question about their current work, with the most noteworthy being Mister Miracle revealing that Superman has almost succumbed to the Anti-Life Equation. Content with their briefings, The Batman Who Laughs begins to explain how Perpetua, the god who created their multiverse, has destroyed another of their universe, leaving only 8 before The Batman Who Laughs and Perpetua can remake the multiverse however they desire. Before we can hear more, we’re dragged into Diana’s perspective as the true Batman engages in a psychic link with her, trying to advocate for a small victory rather than the sweeping final win that Diana desires. As her thoughts turn towards what happened to result in the current state of the universe and her lack of memory about what caused it, The Batman Who Laughs interrupts her as he can tell that she is hiding something.

And at that moment, an explosive arrow fires out of the nearby woods and nearly vaporizes The Batman Who Laughs. Sacrificing one of his Robins, we soon see Bruce stride out to exchange threats with The Batman Who Laughs, who takes with some jest before ordering an entire squadron of Dark Multiverse Batmen to kill Bruce. While the enslaved Justice League does their best to take advantage of the distraction, their Dark Multiverse minders are quick to detain them from any rebellious actions. So Bruce is left alone, simply standing in this field to face down an army. And as The Batman Who Laughs monologues about how disappointed the brave men and women who died in this field would be at Bruce’s actions, he asks him what he would say to justify himself.

His answer?

One word.

“RISE.”

And so, with a BLACK LANTERN RING ON HIS FINGER, BRUCE WAYNE SUMMONS AN ARMY OF UNDEAD REBELS TO FIGHT THE DARK MULTIVERSE BATMEN JUST PURELY TO DEMONSTRATE WHAT HIS METHOD CAN DO TO DIANA BEFORE RIDING OFF ON A SKELETAL MOTORCYCLE AND LEAVING ZOMBIE JONAH HEX TO CONTINUE LEADING THE ASSAULT.

And now, as the audience both in the know about all of that and not in the know but hyped as hell because BRUCE WAYNE WENT FULL FUCKING NECROMANCER sits in the afterglow of that amazing moment, we cut to a single page depicting the planet Ossex as the Main Man, Lobo, unearths something from underneath the living bone of the planet.

Having made it back to Themyscira, Diana is quick to continue with the rebellion, setting off into Tartarus to see who this mystery prisoner is. And its...Wally West, with a Dr Manhattan-style hydrogen atom drawn into the forehead of his costume. And with Wally, we finally get an explanation of what the hell is going on. See, with the traditional multiverses, they are created using the positive energies that were explored in the Justice League run, things like the Speed Force, the Emotional Spectrum, Imagination. The inverse, stuff like chaos magic and the forces of doom that Perpetua wished to bring to power (and succeeded at doing) are what Wally calls Crisis Energy. And whereas the positive energies wish to create a strong united universe, Crisis Energies wish to simply make only one thing, one moment, one person important. And so, when Perpetua was trapped after her attempts to make a universe of war out of crisis energy, she did her best to instigate crises and came back empowered with all that energy. Meanwhile, the league, empowered by the slightly failed efforts of Dr Manhattan to ‘fix’ the multiverse, gathered all the positive energy they could and then, between the last issue of Justice League and Death Metal, the two forces clashed. Which, since they were basically smashing tow inverse forces together, resulted in both sides burning themselves out.

Now, that block of text could be extremely dry feeling, but it works really well in the two page spread, with the word balloons beginning to form an infinity symbol as images of past crises ranging from the original Crisis On Infinite Earths to Emerald Twilight to Dark Nights Metal in the background.

But back to the story. With that explanation done, Wonder Woman begins to theorize potentially going back to those crises and gathering this information for themselves in order to reshape the universe themselves. Resulting in....”The first Anti-Crisis” The Batman Who Laughs interrupts with, striding into Tartarus to cut his own deal with Wonder Woman to let him take control over Perpetua. If she helps him, she gets all the people Perpetua has trapped and their own planet. And after that, he emphasizes how she can’t out-plan him, how he’s already prepared for her to knock him out, use the invisible jet she was being forced to deconstruct and melt down to give her armor that would render her undetectable. Wonder Woman is quick to counter that despite all the knowledge The Batman Who Laughs says he has, that entire plan is what Bruce would do. So he is quick to counter, stating so then she’d make a weapon, some sort of sword?

But it seems The Batman Who Laughs didn’t account for two things. One, for Diana to have already made her weapon before he showed up. Two, she didn’t need to make a sword. And so, with a pull of its ripcord, THE CHAINSAW OF TRUTH CLEAVES ITS WAY THROUGH THE BATMAN WHO LAUGHS IN A SPLASH PAGE OF PURE ENERGY ERUPTING OUT OF THE DEMON WHERE THE CHAINSAW IS CUTTING THROUGH HIM!

The comic ends with two quick one panel stories. The first, with Batmage executing a final plan that The Batman Who Laughs had in place to unleash a final Bruce Wayne. Which only sounds mildly menacing, unti the art shows both a button with a watchmen-style frownie face and the final Bruce Wayne in silhouette, a glowing hydrogen atom on his forehead.

The other is a cut back to Sergeant Rock, still continuing with his tirade from the beginning of the comic before he is taken out of the moment by Batman coming to retrieve him for the big fight. And as Batman promises One last fight with everyone together, we get to see in silhouette that Sergeant Rock is missing his everything below his torso, revealing himself to likely be another resurrection from Bruce’s Black Lantern ring.

So, in summary, IM PUMPED TO SEE WHAT HEIGHTS THIS THING HITS! THE BIG MOMENTS WERE SO DAMNED COOL! THE ART IS STILL THE ABSOLUTE ALL KILLER NO FILLER THAT CAPULLO ROCKED OUT WITH IN THE LAST DARK NIGHTS METAL EVENT AND I CANT WAIT TO SEE WHAT NEW SPORES OF MADNESS HE GETS TO CREATE FOR THIS STORY!

And while I’d like to be pure hype beast, that feels a little disingenuous when I do have some small moments that seem like they could be tweaked. Both of the long exposition scenes for the Dead Bats and the Positive Energy vs Crisis Energy could have potentially stood for another pass just to really tighten them up, but I will also admit that both those scenes kinda deserve to be long-winded. The Dead Bats to make sure that the setup for Batman with a Black Lantern Ring summoning an army at that point works and the Energy one because its explaining the entire setup for the rest of the event series and it helps lull things down so that the hype of Chainsaw of Truth can hit like it should.

So yeah, this thing is absolutely something any Scott Snyder fan, any DC fan, heck Id almost venture to say anyone interested in comics read. None of the story elements of the comic intrinsically need you to know the backstory behind them, but there are definitely rewards for knowing DC continuity in general and Scott Snyder’s previous works in this arcing story. So yeah, I am going to sit here, vibrating in anticipation as I await the next issue of Death Metal from the Cowboys From Hell on their encore tour.

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ty-talks-comics · 5 years

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Best of DC: Week of October 30th, 2019

Best of this Week: Tales from the Dark Multiverse - The Death of Superman - Jeff Loveness, Brad Walker, Drew Hennessey, Norm Rapmund, John Kalisz and Clayton Cowles

We all know the story of the Death of Superman.

It was one of the few times that Superman fought a threat that pushed him to his limits, ultimately meeting his “end” before a triumphant return after he had been presumed dead. However, what would have happened had Superman not come back as soon as he did? What if someone wanted revenge for his death and saw his passing as a failure on the part of his friends and allies? What if that person were Lois Lane, fueled by the anger of losing her loving husband, enraged enough to become the change the world needed without its greatest hero?

The book begins with Tempus Fuginaut questioning why the darkness keeps returning, why it seems to keep attempting to poison the rest of the multiverse and he is at a loss. He breaks when he mentions worlds that are already dark because of tragedy and get darker still. We then cut to Superman’s battle with Doomsday and his eventual death right up to Lois cradling his body. Where the original story sees her crying and appreciating all that the rest of the heroes were doing while the fight was going on, this book sees her turn to them in fury. She asks why none of them were there for him, why none of them helped him fight.

Brad Walker does an excellent job of conveying Lois’ emotions. Here, she is shown to be far more angry, her eyes showing a pain that honestly, I don’t think we’ve ever seen from her character. Her tears are well detailed, dripping down her cheeks with maybe some bit of mascara mixed in for effect. Her brow furrows and she lashes out at Batman in particular once he tries to comfort her.

What’s most interesting about this take is the idea that those closest to Clark had been shunted to the side in favor of the League who Lois saw as attention seekers with no regard for his real family. In the original story, Lois and the Kents were in the forefront and were absolutely devastated at the funeral. In this story, Lois is barely able to see the proceedings as the crowd blocks her and some members of the League stop for photos (maybe, Hal Jordan stops and waves at someone). Lois is further disgusted as Lex Luthor (with luxurious long, red hair) unveils a golden statue of the Man of Steel and promises to “live up to the hope” of what Superman believed humanity was capable of. Lois feels that Clark would have found it all s disgusting.

Time goes by and the world turns back into the cesspool that it was before Superman even lit the sky up with hope. There are headlines that crime has skyrocketed and Lois can do nothing but look at it all with despair. Lois Lane had always been a giant beacon of hope, even before she met Clark, but something about his death and the way that world handled it just broke her. Her body language at her desk and later, Superman’s grave give off heavy feelings of sadness and depression. She can’t even have a good night's rest without thinking about him and the shoddy state of the world after his passing. Superman gave so much to humanity and they’ve all just pissed it away from her point of view.

She visits Ma Kent and comforts her as the Kents couldn’t even go to their son’s funeral to say their goodbyes. As they embrace, Martha tells Lois that Jonathan fell into a coma after a heart attack and you can feel her brokenness as she laments that “her boys are gone.” It rips at the heart to see, a testament to Brad Walker’s emotional art and Loveness’ amazing script. She stays with Ma Kent for an unstated period of time before making her way to the Fortress of Solitude to deliver Superman’s cape back to his Kryptonian home.

She puts herself in a fetal position before the statues of Jor-El and Lara Lor-Van and suddenly the form of Eradicator appears before her. John Kalisz is given a ton of space to shine as this is one of the most visually dynamic sequence of pages in the book. Eradicator shimmers with a bright and vibrant shade of red accentuated by a white form. Energy surges around him in the form of circular marks, like bubbles as one exhales while swimming underwater. Even without a mouth, his eyes emote for him. Showing his own anger and lament after failing to save Superman in time.

Lois, with tears in her eyes, offers her body as a vessel for his power as he cannot sustain it in his current form. He is reluctant at first, thinking that her body wouldn’t be able to take it, but upon seeing her resolve and want to finish Superman’s mission, he allows her to take his power. She is then showered in his energy in a bright blast as he dissipates into her. The Fortress of Solitude is destroyed with the red of the explosion contrasted by the blues and whites of the ice. Things simmer down for a moment before another single beam of light shoots out from the ice, revealing Lois in her Super-form.

Her costume is amazing. Mirroring the bloody logo that made the Death of Superman story feel so visceral, she already feels like a different “hero” altogether, choosing to forego bright colors in favor of a black bodysuit and Superman’s torn cape. She vows to make the world better, to make it a world that deserved Superman. The way that she goes about it very similar to Injustice Superman’s approach, but instead of raising an army, she is the army. She takes down predatory banks, ends wars, feeds the hungry, kills the corrupt and does so without a hint of remorse. She begins to wonder why Clark never used his power in that way. The questions swirl around her mind as she wonders if Clark was truly naive or if he was just afraid of truly Saving humanity for whatever reason.

Many have asked similar questions over the years with the only real answer being that Superman wants humanity to advance on their own with him being a guiding hand, but not a firm one. Lois, only fueled by revenge, doesn’t have the same restraint. Eventually she finds Lex Luthor, knowing that he’s been the cause of all of the world’s troubles since Superman’s death. He doesn’t bat an eye as he admits to his heinous crimes; funding wars and conflicts, struck down climate regulations, created child soldier and even murdering his secretary just because he could. He expects Lois to bring him to justice, claiming that he owns far more judges than she could stop.

In a terrifying moment, she bursts through the glass window separating them and grabs him by the throat. Luthor is unable to speak, unable to stop her at all and the motif of tears continues as she tells him that Superman was Clark Kent. Luthor’s face, abject terror mixed with the loss of breath is both horrifying to see and absolutely gratifying considering his actions. She flies him past Earth’s atmosphere as quickly as she can, burning him to ash and bone in her hands before continuing her mission.

These are my favorite pages in the book. Loveness wrote it in such a way that all of the emotion is able to be carried by with little dialogue and the few words that are spoken were powerful. Walker made sure to draw these pages with an amazing amount of depth to them. Lois’ boiling anger is painted on her face through her tears, her body language indicates that she feels her actions are righteous and the ease that she’s able to keep hold of Luthor as she destroys him shows a level of control over her new powers and it is amazing. Kalisz makes no bones about showing how Lois’ inner darkness has taken over, showing her shrouded in fire and feeling nothing about what she has done.

The training wheels are taken off by this point as Lois has seemingly gone on a tear through the rogues gallery of almost everyone; burning Intergang, Cadmus, Ra’s al Ghul, Ares, Black Adam, Deathstroke and finally the Joker which draws the ire of Batman. He confronts her about what she’s done, leading to them having a fight. Batman does his best, but she tells him how much Clark actually held back against him, even going so far as to say that Clark pitied him and wished that he would stop being Batman. Bruce looks at her with a seething rage, saying that “he doesn’t stop” to which Lois says that she knows. While we don’t see the aftermath of their conflict up close, we do see her heat vision make a huge blast before she flies away.

This stuck out to me because, unlike Injustice that went out of its way to show all of the brutality that Superman inflicted upon the heroes of the world, we can interpret similar actions from how she was able to easily kill Batman alone. We don’t need to see what happened to know that it was heinous and that she likely had cut a swath through the other “glory hounds” as well. As she looks out to the vast emptiness of space, she sees her own truth. Humanity can’t be saved because they don’t want to be. Batman was the pinnacle of that and now that he’s gone, she’s finally realized it. Batman was one of the greatest humans to exist, but he was too wrapped up in his own emotion and damn anyone that tried to stop him.

What would a Death of Superman retelling be without the “pretenders?” Granted, I think this bit of the story took some liberties, but it was still horrific to see. She goes after Cyborg Superman and immediately sees through his ruse. They have a tussle and as it appears that she’s about to lose, Steel and Superboy show up only to be crushed and heat visioned to death. I suppose Superboy’s clone DNA doesn’t make him as invincible as Superman, but I don’t think Cyborg Superman has the power to control metal at will to crush Steel either. Lois proceeds to fight Cyborg Superman for God knows how long, not caring about property damage or the amount of people killed.

She looks around, seeing all of the damage and suddenly, in a black suit, Clark returns. He apologizes for how long it took and sees that she’s been fighting Cyborg Superman, then he takes a look at the crowd of people and sees that they’re afraid of her and he questioned why. Unfortunately, this leaves him distracted enough for Cyborg Superman to blast the pair with a ray of Kryptonite Energy, killing him and leaving his face frozen with terror at Lois. She kills Cyborg Superman and cradles his body again, this time knowing that she’s the one that kills him.

I loved this book because it was absolutely masterful. Lois Lane is such a great character that rarely gets stories of her own these days, aside from her current ongoing series by Greg Rucka and Mike Perkins. She is always portrayed as a strong character and seeing her succumb to a weakness like rage is refreshing in a dark way. One criticism I could draw is that this story focused very little on her journalism, but in contrast, how often do we get a super powered Lois Lane?

Brad Walker, Drew Hennessey, Norm Rapmund and John Kalisz absolutely killed it in the art department. It was brutal without blood and the motif of tears and fire was a nice addition. Waller has such a distinctive and sharp style that is accentuated by Hennessey and Rapmund's inks and elevated by Kalisz' colors. This book was high quality and beautiful.

High recommend!

#dc comics #comics #tales from the dark multiverse #lois lane #superman #death of superman #dark multiverse #batman #lex luthor #jeff loveness #drew hennessy #norm rapmund #brad walker #john kalisz #comic review

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prettylittlebrownskingyal · 4 years

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Your commentary on titans 👌👌 give us the full review

My main problem with Titans is that there is (a.) no logical and solid justification for these characters and their actions and (b.) this may just be the film nerd in me— but there’s no emotional payoff.

What irks me more is that the cast is incredible. They’re likeable and capable of handling emotion and they can clearly deal with more than they’re given.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure from writers to showrunners to directors and crew— a lot of work and time and energy has been put into the production of this show. But these characters are so iconic and in my nitwit opinion, it’s almost painful to see their potential go to waste.

And I say potential because there are moments— mystical and magical, full of hope and wonder and rich comic goodness that make you want more. But they fall flat.

“Families can be fucked up.”

Titans is supposed to be about family. They literally end the last episode with the song “We are Family.” So why would these people— who supposedly view each other as found family— abandon each other at every given opportunity?

They gang up on Jason in the tower when only moments before they were all fired up about saving the kid from Dr. Light. Gar gets left behind by himself with an unconscious, cleary dangerous super clone. Donna and Dawn fully agree to let Dick rot in prison.

These actions do not reflect people who care for each other. Who want to protect and keep each other safe. Why would this be the core emotional catalyst for any development whatsoever when no actual families are portrayed?

Also, here are two established families featured this season and there were no attempts to have them act as foils for each other even though that would have made clear sense. The Wilsons and the Waynes. Two kids that share stoic father figures that are linked to their trauma. Rose and Jericho have no relationship. No communication. No reason to trust each other. Also, why does Rose immediately give up her life for her father?

Dick and Jason’s relationship had some moments that could have been great to both of their character developments. Dick is his best when he’s being a big brother to Gar and Rachel. Why not let him be the same for Jason?

Here are some things I’d do differently.

1.) No Conner storyline

Conner, Krypto and Eve’s episode (episode 6) was quite possibly the best of the season. It’s because a family dynamic is clearly established. (It’s a little weird, I’ll admit) But these characters rely on each other. They look out for each other. They care. (“You didn’t abandon me”// “Can I call you mom?”// “Hot dogs? Get it?”– i ate that shit up)

That being said, it also feels like Conner was just created so they’d have someone to save Jason from his fall.

The introduction of CADMUS as another antagonist when Slade is a major, overpowering one feels like too many things to juggle at once. If they’d held out, Conner and CADMUS would have been great as the main focal point for a whole season.

2.) More Jericho

Jericho was essentially the highlight of the season. I can’t tell if it was the way he was written or the way Chella portrayed him but that’s what Titans really needs.

humanity. kindness. friendship and family ties.

why couldn’t he have had more time with the Titans? why couldn’t he have a relationship with Rose?

I’d have let him explore his abilities more. His relationship with his mom, with Slade, with each of the Titans.

They needed to have actual bonding with him. Not just a shoddy backstory.

3.) Better treatment of Rose

Rose Wilson could have been so much more than just a plot point. More than an informant. All she did this season was eat cereal, say “i’m out” and then solve a major fight plot point in fifteen minutes. We needed more of her training, her relationships, her justifications to just pick and fall into a life of an assassin.

She and Jason had some decent moments of believable cheesy teen behaviour between them but not enough to cover the gaping hole in Jason’s storyline.

4.) Jason needs more emotional moments!!

Not going to lie, I wasn’t sure Curran Walters could do big emotional scenes or make me care as much as he did. But he did. He’s got the bratty, troubled Jason down but he needs to be more fleshed out.

Like Rose, he feels like a caricature of a troubled teen. Where’s his interaction with Bruce? His backstory? His impulsivity and need to prove himself to Dick should be established but it’s not.

That scene where he learns that Rose has been using them all along? That was better than most of what we’ve seen him do.

5.) Donna as a big sister// Donna’s relationship with loss

You’re telling me “older smarter prettier”// “you can crash at my place” Donna Troy who took care of Dick would not look at these kids and want to help? After all Diana’s taught her? WACK

Also Donna and Garth’s relationship? It felt forced. He literally said “I love you” and then died. C’mon man, really? At least give them a pre-established relationship.

6.) Kory?? what happened y’all?

She felt so underutilized this season. Anna Diop is a star. She delivers her performance so well. The moment she heals Conner, her rushing to save Rachel— she has this essence of kindness that fits so well with her strength and the potency of her powers.

She’s a gifted, royal powerhouse.

So why give her a runaround, stretched out storyline? Why make her kill someone she cared about?

7.) Hank and Jason?//Dawn, Donna and Kory?// Dick & Gar

The dynamic between these characters whether seen or hinted at could have literally carried full episodes. Why consistently break them apart? Or make them fight or ignore each other? Why not let them play into each other, learn from each other? INTERACT??

8.) Bruce// Dick’s version of Bruce

I like Iain Glen as an older version of Bruce Wayne. I like that he’s a bit quirky, snarky, an asshole and he says things like “no shit.” But he doesn’t serve much of a purpose and he feels like an instant solution in certain situations. Plus he has no interaction with Jason.

That being said, the use of him as Dick’s voice of reason/subconscious does hone in on the question that Dick keeps trying to run away from— “What would Batman do?” That works for his character. It works for his growth. Their dynamic is wonderful but ultimately, not necessary.

9.) Donna dying?

That WHOLE scene was so out of place. Why would that have happened after the climax of the story? As an extra source of angst?

Again, the Titans are separated by death. Again, a sense of a family is built up and torn down. No one should have to die for a real sense of familial bond to be established.

10.) Deathstroke’s character//takedown

He’s supposed to be the main antagonist and they all have beef with him. Rightfully, everyone should have gotten a chance in that battle. It happened way too quickly and was very anticlimactic for the old Titans.

Also, Slade killing one of their friends with one, single bullet to the chest literally does nothing for me. Especially since Aqualad is supposed to be a Titan. There’s no real conflict, no tangible establishment of hate. Where’s the torture? the real hurt?

11.) Gar, Dick and Hank and their repeated storylines

they all went through the same arcs again. Dick with his Batman struggle. Hank and his own darkness. Gar and his struggle with control and being controlled and experimented on.

This season should have been about Dick coming into his own as Nightwing. About Gar finally having some normalcy and a place that he feels safe in. He should have gotten some redemption as a hero. Hank (and i hate to say, i hope i don’t sound ridiculous but) should have gotten some resolution with Dawn. Either they’re in or out because the back and forth they do with each other is incredibly toxic and they’ve been established as smart enough to see that.

It wasn’t all bad though and I’ll probably end up doing a re-watch sometime. Since I’ve pretty much spouted asshole nonsense, here are some of the best moments:

The end of the first episode where they’re all standing around their cars and laughing? GOLD. More of that cheesy, established friendship.

Jericho hugging Dick, Dick being unsure how to deal with warmth and forgiveness. Everybody say thank you to Chella for improvising that.

Kory and Donna being detectives and arguing over jelly doughnuts? Yes, please! I love them together. How they clearly knew each other, how they worked well together to take out Shimmer.

Kory speaking Kryptonian. Anything that furthers her development brings me joy.

Conner saving Jason. That was pretty comic book like— I liked it.

All the scenes Krypto’s in.

Hank telling Dawn that he knows what Jason’s probably feeling. That was emotional and heartfelt. Also, Hank going “Atta boy” when they were on the phone with Slade. I’m really upset they couldn’t have a brotherly relationship because their characters are quite similar.

Gar, Jason and Rachel interacting like friends/teammates/siblings. Their dynamic works. I’d love to have seen the three of them take on a challenge together.

#ar.txt #asks #prettylilanons #ar watches Titans #i have more thoughts but i can't form them right now.#Anonymous #titans #dc’s titans

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aion-rsa · 4 years

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How Batman Evolved During Tom King's Run

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Bruce Wayne's adoptive father is the key to Tom King's conclusion to his run on Batman.

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This Batman article contains spoilers.

Tom King did the impossible. In a comics industry founded on the bedrock principle that only the appearance of growth should ever be shown, he’s told a massive, three-year, 85-issue story that has Bruce Wayne actually develop as a character.

With Alfred’s death earlier in the final story arc, "City of Bane," many would have expected Bruce to shun his supporting cast and dedicate himself to revenge, leaving Gotham littered with shattered criminals as he pushed his grief through his fists and his enemies’ faces. But that’s not what happened.

We got a chance to talk with King about character growth, how his epic tale developed, and what’s next for Batman, Catwoman, and King himself in the DCU.

Den of Geek: You talk about Vision, Omega Men, and Sheriff of Babylon being a thematic trilogy, right?

Tom King: Yeah.

Can we look at Mister Miracle, Heroes in Crisis, and Batman the same way?

Oh yeah, 100% yeah. That's what I think of it. Yeah. I'm glad someone noticed.

It's about heroes managing trauma, right?

It is. I call it the Trauma Trilogy. That's just too easy, maybe. I feel like the first story about my war experience and [the main characters of each book] were all someone naively going into a situation and finding it much more complicated than they thought. And then these three were all about, I’ve said this publicly a billion times, about this nervous first-season-of-the-Sopranos breakdown I had in 2016 when I first started on Batman, and sort of how I recovered from that. And I sort of wrote it three different ways. Yeah, it's like some fancy dish, you know. The Trauma Trilogy.

Read More: How Batman Will Change in 2020

So the breakdown in 2016 happened after you had already started on Batman. How far is what ended up on the page drifted from what you initially conceived it to be?

I mean it's pretty close. There's some stuff that didn't quite pan out. Batman isn’t like a series like Mister Miracle or our upcoming Strange Adventures that we're doing. You have to write Batman with some degree of compromise because it's a much bigger platform and overlaps a lot of other books. You have a lot more eyes on it in terms of editorial control. And so yeah, it wasn't entirely a straight line, but considering it was 85 issues of DC's best-selling comic, I think it was a lot straighter than I thought it would be in terms of going from one spot to another.

It was always supposed to be about a love story and that was there from day one. I remember talking about that with my first editor, Mark Doyle...being like, “What is this book about?” And me literally just searching and searching until I found an old clip of the Batman ‘66 TV show. It was just like, “Oh man, I love this." The Catwoman, Batman dynamic.

And it hadn't been in the books in a long time. Not since, like, Judd Winnick, New 52 stuff. So that part about it, the fact that it was just one big love story. That was the same and Bane was supposed to be the main bad guy. But the stuff with Flashpoint, Batman evolved as we went along. I'd say that's the thing that's evolved the most.

We talked that second arc, I think, about Bane, Catwoman, and Batman being three sides of the same shitty coin. But now with Thomas included in there, it feels like it's kind of four points on a graph, labeling each axis. You've got like Batman who had privilege but lost everything at a young age. You have Thomas on the other end who had everything for most of his life and then lost everything. You've got Catwoman, who was born into nothing and kind of hangs on to everything but keeps it at arms length. And you've got Bane, who kind of grabs whatever he can and crushes it to death. As Thomas evolved into this, does that sound like what you were thinking at all?

Yeah, I do think they all represent this idea of who's top of the mountain in their own way. I guess you could say who does Gotham belong to? Bane sees Gotham as a prize that he has to win. Thomas sees Gotham as a burden. For Catwoman, Gotham is just who she is and she's sort of queen of that city. And then for Batman, it's ... I mean that's what the whole question is. What does he mean to Gotham?

With Alfred's death, was it kind of a backdoor way of you taking a look at Bruce's origins? You know, using the death of a father figure to kind of shock him out of being Batman the way that he was shocked into being Batman?

Yeah, but it was also a way to show what the difference is between Bruce losing his parents when he was young and connected to them, and Bruce losing Alfred having been raised by Alfred. To me that was a tribute to sort of Alfred's parentage of Bruce for all these years and him guiding him through that trauma. Because you expect Batman in that moment to bury himself in anger and go insane and do all the things that drove him to be Batman in the first place. But instead of that, he hears Alfred's voice and he composes himself. To me it's sort of about the maturing of the character and maturing of it through the love of Alfred. I know I said this in the book, there are no good deaths. There's a nobility to death if you've treated your children right.

Read More: Batman and Catwoman Face Thomas Wayne in Final Tom King Issue

Well, I would quibble with that only because I think you could have killed Batman at any point in the last 85 issues and whatever was happening would have been a hell of a way to go. Right? Like he has a heart attack on a ferris wheel with Superman. That's a pretty okay way to do it.

Wait I did kill Batman! I killed him in annual number two.

Oh yeah! Yeah.

I gave him my ideal death. He dies instead as an old man surrounded by his family.

And that's the good death.

That's a good one. That's as best as you can do with no other choices.

After 85, it feels like that's kind of the direction, right? Batman for so long has been that traumatized little boy, to the point where it's almost a parody, and many of your predecessors have done something interesting with that. But it always feels like the traumatized little boy has been the dominant perception of him, at least in my adult life. Is this your way of kind of trying to push him through it?

The story of Batman is unending conflict. I'm sure whoever comes after me will embrace the Batman of their own and I bless him for doing it. I know James [Tynion IV, the writer taking over Batman with #86]’s stuff is going to be, from what I've seen, amazing. Batman's not a story that I have the power to end. I just kind of come in and take the reins for a while and then pass it onto someone else as brilliant as James and Tony [Daniel, the artist on the first arc].

But I can sort of, I don't know, tell my story. I don’t know, maybe I'm too old to write Batman. Frank was 29 when he wrote The Dark Knight Returns. I'm 41. But it seems like as you get older and you actually see your parents pass, you see your loved ones pass, you realize that everyone has to go through that trauma. Right? You sort of realize that it can become part of you and something you're proud of as well. The grief never leaves you. It never leaves Batman. It's a wonderful metaphor. But also there's a certain joy to that grief because it sort of unites you with your lost ones.

So hopefully, as you go on, you sort of mature into that. I hate to say that the greatest hero America's ever created, which is Batman, never got a chance to mature into it like the rest of us hopefully get to do. Yeah, I mean that's what that's about. He says, when I was a child, I did childish things and now it's time to grow up a little bit.

Read More: Why Tom King Is Leaving Batman

So the action sequences have been phenomenal through the whole thing. There have been some stellar fight sequences, especially Jorge [Fornes'] last ten issues. Every time he comes in it's incredible.

He’s ridiculous.

They've been phenomenal. When I think back on the run, what I think is going to jump out at me are going to be the quiet moments. The double date, 12 Angry Batmen, Bruce and Selina grabbing a beer and watching football at a bar. What do you think was about those quiet moments that let you make them sing?

I mean, the first thing is the art. All three of those things you mentioned, you've got Lee Weeks...there's not a lot of people who can draw a dynamic room with just 12 people talking. Clay Mann doing the double date. Just him elevating himself and becoming the best artist in comics while I was watching. And then Mikel [Janin]. I've been with Mikel for five years now since Grayson. He did the first Batman I did and he’s doing the last.

It's really hard. I mean, as dumb as it sounds, it's probably easier to draw a dynamic fight scene than a dynamic quiet scene. So those guys are doing the heavy lifting.

As far as the other stuff goes. You know, it's ... DC Fontana died yesterday, right? The Star Trek author, and she's famous for saying, “Star Trek is not about objects. It's about characters.” Like, that's her thing. If you're writing an episode of Star Trek, don't make it about the thing. Make it about the people's relationships. So I think that that's what those moments are about is we've had a lot of conflicts. Fantastic, amazing conflicts about things. But I try to make my conflicts about the characters. Just trying to follow what she told me to do. What she said. Not that I ever met her but I remember what she said to do.

So looking back, is there an issue that stands out in your mind as something that you just absolutely nailed? Like, it's the Batman/Elmer Fudd issue, right?

No, I hate it. [laughs] I love that issue, but there's two typos in it. It still drives me crazy. I'll never manage to get them to fix those. When I first got the comp finished, I threw in the trash I was so pissed. "Oh, I ruined this one. Oh well. I'll try again next time." And then I won awards for it, it was ridiculous.

All three of the annuals I really like. I like the dog story that David Finch and I did in the first annual, which was suggested by my daughter when she was like five.

And I liked the second annual, which has sort of the first dates and the beginning of the end of the Catwoman/Batman relationship. That annual's the jumping off point for the whole Batman/Catwoman series. So that's how much I like it, I'm trying to copy it.

And I like the fourth annual I did with Jorge, which was just sort of like a chance for me to do a thesis statement on what Batman is. And there was seven days of Batman in seven different genres and then it continued sort of forever. I like those three.

Read More: Why Tom King's Batman #86-106 Would Have Been About

Similarly, is there an issue that you wish you could get another crack at?

Oh man, there's a ton of issues I wish I could ... I mean, I look at the dialogue and I’m like, "Oh, I could have done that better."

It took me a while to learn how to work with Joelle Jones, who's one of the most talented artists out there right now. And I think, I feel like I did a Wonder Woman issue with her and I feel like I wasted two of them first of all, because the story I wrote turned out to be very similar to a story that Joe Kelly had done. I hadn't read the story but I was very...I would have changed it if I had known. I sort of understood how to write for [Joelle] by Batman #44, which I think is really nice, but I think it's 39 and 40, the two Joelle Jones issues, I wish I could have another shot at doing well.

I really liked those.

TK: They're beautiful! They're drawn beautifully, but I don't know, we could have done something...it was really fine, but I feel like it could have transcended. I missed it.

I guess. The Justice League flirting between the two of them in the cartoon is high on my list of preferred pairings. So like the way that you played with that made me happy. Is there a character you feel particular ownership of now? Like if somebody comes in and changes Kite Man, are you going to throw the issue across the room and scream, "Fuck no, that's not how this is supposed to be done."

No, I think that's kind of silly. It's kind of like when you sign up for this gig, that's part of the agreement and coming into comics is realizing that this is a medium that extends to other people and no one has benefited more from that than me, who's twisted the work of Jack Kirby and Marv Wolfman and Bob Kane and Bill Finger for my own benefits. I feel like denying that to others would be hypocritical.

Gotham Girl's named after my daughter Claire. Claire Clover is her name. So I do like her. Like I have in my daughter's room a David Finch piece or a page that he did and a page that Clay Mann did they gave to me for her. So I like her because she's named after my daughter.

Wow. That's got to be pretty sweet.

I know. I try to tell her brag, brag to your friends! But does she brag?