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lurkingteapot · 11 months

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Every now and then I think about how subtitles (or dubs), and thus translation choices, shape our perception of the media we consume. It's so interesting. I'd wager anyone who speaks two (or more) languages knows the feeling of "yeah, that's what it literally translates to, but that's not what it means" or has answered a question like "how do you say _____ in (language)?" with "you don't, it's just … not a thing, we don't say that."

I've had my fair share of "[SHIP] are [married/soulmates/fated/FANCY TERM], it's text!" "[CHARACTER A] calls [CHARACTER B] [ENDEARMENT/NICKNAME], it's text!" and every time. Every time I'm just like. Do they though. Is it though. And a lot of the time, this means seeking out alternative translations, or translation meta from fluent or native speakers, or sometimes from language learners of the language the piece of media is originally in.

Why does it matter? Maybe it doesn't. To lots of people, it doesn't. People have different interests and priorities in fiction and the way they interact with it. It's great. It matters to me because back in the early 2000s, I had dial-up internet. Video or audio media that wasn't available through my local library very much wasn't available, but fanfiction was. So I started to read English language Gundam Wing fanfic before I ever had a chance to watch the show. When I did get around to watching Gundam Wing, it was the original Japanese dub. Some of the characters were almost unrecognisable to me, and first I doubted my Japanese language ability, then, after checking some bits with friends, I wondered why even my favourite writers, writers I knew to be consistent in other things, had made these characters seem so different … until I had the chance to watch the US-English dub a few years later. Going by that adaptation, the characterisation from all those stories suddenly made a lot more sense. And the thing is, that interpretation is also valid! They just took it a direction that was a larger leap for me to make.

Loose adaptations and very free translations have become less frequent since, or maybe my taste just hasn't led me their way, but the issue at the core is still a thing: Supernatural fandom got different nuances of endings for their show depending on the language they watched it in. CQL and MDZS fandom and the never-ending discussions about 知己 vs soulmate vs Other Options. A subset of VLD fans looking at a specific clip in all the different languages to see what was being said/implied in which dub, and how different translators interpreted the same English original line. The list is pretty much endless.

And that's … idk if it's fine, but it's what happens! A lot of the time, concepts -- expressed in language -- don't translate 1:1. The larger the cultural gap, the larger the gaps between the way concepts are expressed or understood also tend to be. Other times, there is a literal translation that works but isn't very idiomatic because there's a register mismatch or worse. And that's even before cultural assumptions come in. It's normal to have those. It's also important to remember that things like "thanks I hate it" as a sentiment of praise/affection, while the words translate literally quite easily, emphatically isn't easy to translate in the sense anglophone internet users the phrase.

Every translation is, at some level, a transformative work. Sometimes expressions or concepts or even single words simply don't have an exact equivalent in the target language and need to be interpreted at the translator's discretion, especially when going from a high-context/listener-responsible source language to a low-context/speaker-responsible target language (where high-context/listener responsible roughly means a large amount of contextual information can be omitted by the speaker because it's the listener's responsibility to infer it and ask for clarification if needed, and low-context/speaker-responsible roughly means a lot of information needs to be codified in speech, i.e. the speaker is responsible for providing sufficiently explicit context and will be blamed if it's lacking).

Is this a mouse or a rat? Guess based on context clues! High-context languages can and frequently do omit entire parts of speech that lower-context/speaker-responsible languages like English regard as essential, such as the grammatical subject of a sentence: the equivalent of "Go?" - "Go." does largely the same amount of heavy lifting as "is he/she/it/are you/they/we going?" - "yes, I am/he/she/it is/we/you/they are" in several listener-responsible languages, but tends to seem clumsy or incomplete in more speaker-responsible ones. This does NOT mean the listener-responsible language is clumsy. It's arguably more efficient! And reversely, saying "Are you going?" - "I am (going)" might seem unnecessarily convoluted and clumsy in a listener-responsible language. All depending on context.

This gets tricky both when the ambiguity of the missing subject of the sentence is clearly important (is speaker A asking "are you going" or "is she going"? wait until next chapter and find out!) AND when it's important that the translator assign an explicit subject in order for the sentence to make sense in the target language. For our example, depending on context, something like "are we all going?" - "yes" or "they going, too?" might work. Context!

As a consequence of this, sometimes, translation adds things – we gain things in translation, so to speak. Sometimes, it's because the target language needs the extra information (like the subject in the examples above), sometimes it's because the target language actually differentiates between mouse and rat even though the source language doesn't. However, because in most cases translators don't have access to the original authors, or even the original authors' agencies to ask for clarification (and in most cases wouldn't get paid for the time to put in this extra work even if they did), this kind of addition is almost always an interpretation. Sometimes made with a lot of certainty, sometimes it's more of a "fuck it, I've got to put something and hope it doesn't get proven wrong next episode/chapter/ten seasons down" (especially fun when you're working on a series that's in progress).

For the vast majority of cases, several translations are valid. Some may be more far-fetched than others, and there'll always be subjectivity to whether something was translated effectively, what "effectively" even means …

ANYWAY. I think my point is … how interesting, how cool is it that engaging with media in multiple languages will always yield multiple, often equally valid but just sliiiiightly different versions of that piece of media? And that I'd love more conversations about how, the second we (as folks who don't speak the material's original language) start picking the subtitle or dub wording apart for meta, we're basically working from a secondary source, and if we're doing due diligence, to which extent do we need to check there's nothing substantial being (literally) lost -- or added! -- in translation?

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queer-reader-07 · 4 months

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maybe this is just me, but i'm kind of very happy that neil has confirmed with the s3 announcement that crowley and aziraphale really aren't talking.

there's no secret plan there's no time stop there's no body swap. they are not talking.

because i was always of the belief that the story would be better if they truly had a falling out. if there was not some secret plan behind the final fifteen. if it was really just that they both said the wrong things at the wrong times. if aziraphale just made the choice that crowley could never follow him on. if crowley waited just slightly too long to confess his feelings. if it really was just that it fell apart in real time.

i never wanted some secret plan because i want to see them both grow independently of each other. i want to see aziraphale realize just how much he hurt crowley, just how bad heaven really is. i want crowley to realize that he can be his own person independent of aziraphale. i want him to set some fucking boundaries.

idk i just think that their eventual reunion will be so much better knowing that they really weren't talking. knowing that it's a true and proper reunion, that it really will be about them making up with each other.

i don't know what neil has in store, obviously. but knowing that one little fact is reassuring to me. and i know that whatever happens in s3, it will be amazing. i'm so fucking ready.

#not happy because i want them apart #but happy because i just know it'll make for an amazing story #i hope this makes sense #good omens s3 #good omens #crowley #aziraphale #good omens meta #(sorta idk this is just random thoughts mostly)

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westwing19 · 7 months

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We’ve had Meta Dad, we’ve also had Galacta Dad, now get ready to be bombarded by thoughts of Morpho Dad with Kirby since the puffball is the butterfly’s favourite landing place in game cutscenes 😄.

Aw yes more love for the pink puffball ✨

The morphodad thoughts ended up getting kinda sad so here's some silly stuff I made to make up for it. I hc Morpho to be the best at parenting, so I imagine they'd disapprove of some of the shenanigans Kirby gets dragged into lol.

#ask #kirby #morpho knight #meta knight #using metadad as an example but all the other characters would get Kirby into just as much trouble #my usual hc is that morpho is taking care of void as a part of its duties or whatever #so that sorta turned into morpho having taken care of kirby in the past and continuing to watch over him now #which made me kinda sad :')#meart

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nevertheless-moving · 14 days

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been writing cosmere fanfic and you know what? I think I get it now brandon. I too am unable to write Kaladin Stormblessed interacting with someone without them falling a little bit in love, regardless of my intentions.

#same sorta thing happened when i tried to write wayne. the man just makes dick jokes. i'm not in charge here.#nevertheless meta #stormlight archive #nevertheless cosmere #kaladin stormblessed #cosmere

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notfreetoday · 7 months

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The Importance of Amae in My Personal Weatherman

Masterlist || Language Analysis Part 1

I have seen a lot of discourse in the English-speaking fandom surrounding Segasaki's apparent dismissal or trivializing of Yoh's desire to pursue his manga, and most of it is negative. His comments about wanting Yoh to remain dependent on him, or that Yoh does not need to earn money are seen as patronizing or controlling at best and oppressive at worst. It appears that Segasaki does not understand nor respect Yoh's need for independence, and that is what strains their relationship.

But what if I asked you to consider that Segasaki's behaviour is actually an invitation to Yoh to reinforce their relationship? And what if I told you that Yoh's withdrawal from Segasaki constitutes a rejection of that invitation, and it is that rejection that strains their relationship instead?

Of course, the end result is the same - a strained relationship - and in reality there is never one side wholly responsible for this. The point of this is to simply challenge the cultural notion that a successful relationship is the coming together of two equally independent individuals, as opposed to the co-creation of a relationship formed by two interdependent individuals.

"If only you could stay drunk forever..." "It's okay to feel down again for me too you know" - Segasaki, Ep 4, Ep 5

This isn't about Segasaki wanting to keep Yoh is helpless and dependent on him, but about wanting Yoh to be able to be true to his feelings and express his own desire for affection honestly, without having to hide behind "I hate you" or rejection.

Or, let's try and talk about how Segasaki and Yoh reinforce their relationship through the use of amae (featuring a brief mention of tatemae/honne) who am I kidding this is not brief at all

First: Cultural Context

The way people conceptualize and make meaning of the Self differs between Western and East Asian cultures, and this plays into the differences we see in the basis for our self-esteem, the personal attributes that we value, and even what constitutes the behavior of a mature individual. Broadly speaking, Western cultures tend towards the Independent Self Construal (whereby the Self is a distinct entity separate from others) whereas East Asian cultures tend towards Interdependent Self-Construal (whereby the Self is connected to and defined by relationships with others). Thus, in the West, expressing one's individuality is very important for one's self-esteem, and being able to communicate clearly and confidently is valued and a sign of maturity. Conversely, in the East, one's ability to integrate and become a member of the group is prized, and contributes significantly to one's self esteem. In order to be seen as a mature individual, one must learn not only to read a social situation but also how to modify one's behavior in order to respond to the changing demands of that situation, with the ultimate goal being to maintain group harmony.

tl;dr - In East Asian culture, behaviors and attitudes that emphasize interdependence and promote group harmony actually play a big role in reinforcing relationships and one's membership towards the group.

Segasaki is an expert at this - his "public mode" that Yoh refers to actually shows us how good he is at social interactions. This is the Japanese concept of tatemae/honne (crudely translated as public self/private feelings) - which I could link to a bunch of articles for you, but I'm going to suggest you check out this 9 min street interview instead. At 6:41, one of the interviewees comments that another is sunao, or "honest" (we'll cover this later too) and at 6:49 specifically talks about how reading situations is important as an adult. Segasaki reads the room well, but most importantly, he reads Yoh well.

Yoh is not good at this, at all. In Ep 6, we see that he does not integrate well with the group, and he doesn't realize how he might appear to others when he stares and sketches from afar. Yoh does not read the room well because he doesn't pick up on social cues and does not adhere to social norms (I'll point these out in Ep 6's corrections). He cannot read Segasaki, and especially cannot read Segasaki's amae, or his attempts at reinforcing their relationship. Part of this is because his low self-esteem causes him to withdraw from Segasaki's affection as a means of self-protection, and so he valiantly tries to deny his feelings for Segasaki. As Man-san commented in Ep 4, Yoh is not sunao - he has difficulty with being true/honest about his feelings, even to himself.

Sunao is another term that usually pops up when talking about feelings/relationships. It can be used to describe one's relationship with oneself, as well as the relationship with another/group. With oneself, it is usually used to mean "being honest/truthful/straightforward/frank/open-minded about one's feelings". With another person/group, it is usually used to mean "to cooperate/listen/be obedient, or "to be humble/open-minded". In essence, the word encompasses an ideal virtue that is often taught from early childhood - that we should treat both ourselves and others with humility and honesty, because that is how we accept ourselves and stay in harmony with other. This is what becoming an adult, or gaining maturity, means (not gaining independence, as adulthood is often equated to in the West - do you see a running theme here 😂). Of course, that's actually really hard to do, so you'll often hear children (and immature adults too) chided for "not being sunao" (this can therefore sound patronizing if you're not careful). We'll revisit this in a little bit.

Second: What is Amae?

Amae is a key component in Japanese relationships, both intimate and non-intimate. It happens every day, in a variety of different interactions, between a variety of different people. But it is often seen as strange or weird, and those unfamiliar with the concept can feel uncomfortable with it. This stems from the difference in self-construal - because independence is tied so strongly to an individual's self-image in the West, it is very hard to fathom why behavior that emphasizes interdependence could be looked upon favorably. It is telling that every possible English translation of the word "amae" carries a negative connotation, when in Japanese it can be both negative or positive. The original subtitles translated it as "clingy", for example. Other common translations include "dependence", "to act like a child/infant", "to act helpless", "to act spoiled", "coquettish", "seeking indulgence", "being naive" etc.

From A Multifaceted View of the Concept of Amae: Reconsidering the Indigenous Japanese Concept of Relatedness by Kazuko Y Behrens

*Note - the word "presumed" or "presumption" or "expectation" or "assumption" used in the above definition and in the rest of this post, can give the impression that all of amae is premeditated, which adds a calculative component to this concept. Whilst amae can indeed be used in a manipulative manner (benign or otherwise), it is not the case for every single situation, and often amae that seeks affection is often spontaneous and without thought, precisely because the situation allows for it to appear organically. This is the amae that Segasaki and Yoh most often exchange - so think of these assumptions and expectations as "unconscious/subconscious" thought processes.

Third: Amae Between Segasaki and Yoh

Yoh shows a lot of amae when he is drunk:

He whines, buries himself into Segasaki's embrace, refuses to move or let go of him, and keeps repeating "no". In these interactions, Yoh wants Segasaki's affection, but instead of asking, he does, well, this, and he presumes that Segasaki will indulge his behavior. Leaving to get some fresh air might not be as obvious - but it is a form of amae as well, because Man-san is his guest, not Segasaki's, and he shouldn't be leaving Segasaki to entertain her. The expectation that this is okay, and that neither of them will fault him for it, is what makes it amae.

Segasaki obviously enjoys indulging Yoh when Yoh does amae, because he recognises this as Yoh's request for affection from him. It's not that Segasaki enjoys Yoh in this drunk, helpless state; it's not even that Segasaki feels reassured by Yoh's requests for affection. Segasaki knows Yoh likes him, and recognizes that Yoh is struggling with those feelings. That Yoh is actually able to do amae to Segasaki is what delights him the most, because it is something that requires a lot of trust in Segasaki and a willingness to be vulnerable in front of him. This is how amae reinforces relationships - when a request for amae is granted, both the giver and the receiver experience pleasant feelings.

That said, an amae request can also be perceived negatively - if amae is excessive, or if the person responding feels they are obligated to do so. In Ep 5, Man-san chides Yoh for his amae - the fact that he expected to do well from the beginning, and became upset when he failed. He told her about his unemployment, presuming that she would comfort him, but alas.

Segasaki also does amae - but unfortunately Yoh misses many of his cues, and so neither of them really gain pleasant feelings from the interaction (ok so maybe Segasaki does, but I will argue that is more because Segasaki also enjoys it when Yoh obeys him - see @lutawolf's posts for the D/s perspective on this!).

Did you catch it? Segasaki wants Yoh to pass him the Soy Sauce, which, clearly, he is capable of getting himself. He tells Yoh to feed him, because he wants Yoh's affection. And the real kicker - he asked for curry, and expected Yoh to know he wanted pork. In all these interactions, Segasaki presumes that Yoh will indulge him and do for him things he can do himself perfectly well (and even better at that) - this is what makes this amae. But look at Yoh's reactions:

Yoh just stares between the Soy Sauce and Segasaki, between Segasaki and his food, and then just at Segasaki himself. He doesn't recognise any of this as amae, and in the case of feeding Segasaki makes the conclusion that this is somehow a new slave duty he's acquired. And therefore, he does not gain pleasant feelings from it.

In Ep 3 we see a turning point in Yoh's behaviour - his first (sober) attempt at amae (the argument in Ep 2 is debatable - it's not amae from Yoh's POV, but Segasaki responds as if it were, with a head pat and a "when you get drunk, you talk a lot don't you?").

Here, Yoh wants to express his desire for Segasaki's affection, but he can't bring himself to say it aloud. Instead, he dumps bedsheets on Segasaki's lap, as if the bigger the scene he makes the greater the intensity of his desire he can convey. It is the presumption that Segasaki will understand him that makes this amae. And then, we get this:

Not only a happy Segasaki and a sweetly shy Yoh, but also a Yoh who's emboldened by Segasaki's response, and who finally, for the first time, reciprocates touch, and considers the possibility that Segasaki might actually like him.

With every episode, Yoh gets more and more comfortable with doing amae towards Segasaki, because Segasaki picks up on his cues and always responds to them. In Ep 5, Yoh's amae comes out naturally, triggered by the stress of his unemployment, and we see it in all those moments he sounds and acts like a child, and as I mentioned, Segasaki spends the whole episode reassuring Yoh that his amae is welcomed, and that Segasaki likes responding to it. If you've been wondering why the relationship between Segasaki and Yoh can, at times, feel somewhat parental in nature - this is it. It's because Segasaki sees the contradiction between Yoh's childlike insistence that he does not like Segasaki and his desire for Segasaki's attention and affection, for what it really is - Yoh's struggle with accepting himself. When Yoh is able to be sunao, he does amae naturally, and Segasaki responds to him in kind.

Now, all we need is for Yoh to recognize when Segasaki does amae, which will likely happen soon, given that Yoh has grown with every episode.

As always, thank you for reading :))

#my personal weatherman #taikan yohou #体感予報 #segasaki x yoh #MPW language analysis #sociolinguistics #japanese language #japanese cultural tidbits #mytranslations #MPW subtitle corrections #my meta is creeping into my sub corrections #need to get it out here instead #sorry for the length #tbh posting such crazy long posts and expecting that people will actually read it #can be considered amae too 🤣🤣#Ep 6 corrections will be out next #I just needed to get this out before 7 #and i sorta made it

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laikabu · 29 days

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assuming the first image is also utaya, i’ve looked up desert lands near the himalayas as well as other deserts in nepal and the environment matches up pretty well. cool

#dungeon meshi #delicious in dungeon #kabru #dungeon meshi meta #sorta #dungeon meshi spoilers

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amber-laughs · 2 months

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there is just no universe where catelyn likes jon i’m sorry. she knows about R+L=J? ned made traitors of her and her children, put jon’s safety above their’s and is now an even bigger threat to their lives. she hates him. Rhaegar wins and he’s prince jon? he’s still the product of the event that the entire country had to go to war for and probably got her father killed in the process. at the very least she resents him. maybe even hates him. modern au? he’s just the cousin with the teen mom that gets high with her son in the basement and sneaks arya razor blades or whatever. she hates him!

#turns out i’ve already posted the bottom half of this post verbatim lol #their relationship is too fractured from even before his conception #i’m sorry y’all she’s never playing mommy to that boy #even tho he’s my son who deserves all the love and affection this world has to offer #that one girl who really doesn't play about jon and catelyn #jon snow #catelyn tully #valyrianscrolls #asoiaf crack #well kind sorta #catelyn stark #game of thrones #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #asoiaf meta

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saintbleeding · 8 months

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[ID: Transcript excerpt from MAG 142: STATEMENT GIVER: "No! No, I’m not! Of course I’m not – It felt like – Like I was throwing up all those feelings again, and I wanted to, to scream, but instead I just sat and calmly told him my life story, and he just watched me. His eyes, like – His eyes were li-like drinking in every fragment of my misery. I can’t – It – (pause) And then it was over. And he looked – He looked at me like he’d just eaten, like, a perfectly cooked steak. You know what he said, he said “Thank you.” Thank you, just like that, like – like reliving the worst parts of my whole life were just a bit of a favor that I’d done him. And then he left, and, and I-I just sat there, and cried for a while. (sniff) That wasn’t the end." End ID.]

the argument can and has been made that maybe jon tells jess tyrell he works at the institute as a mechanism to maybe accidentally-on-purpose get caught or externally stopped. and that is tasty and i dig it. but also i cannot help but think that there is a distinct possibility that he says this, like this, as some sort of internal coping device: you don't have to face up to the full scope of the ramifications of your actions if you don't explicitly acknowledge that you think it's wrong what you're doing. (after all his grandmother likely a) never apologised and b) seemed to sleep just fine) like. this just feels like such an attempt at distancing and compartmentalising and turning it into a sterile little transaction.

augh babygirl you are so unwell

#tma #the magnus archives #tma s4 #jon sims #jon jarchivist #mag 142 #saint meta #sorta? ish?#described #no UR procrastinating on actual work!!!#jonblogging

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77dekiru · 2 months

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MHA 414: What Izuku’s and Tomura’s Memories Mean…

As the connection between All For One and One For All become stronger (a consequence of the current plan to transfer the vestiges) Izuku’s and Tomura’s memories are beginning to blend together. And each of the memories shown are equally as important as each other.

Izuku’s first memory being his fight with Shouto at the Sports Festival is especially important, because it foreshadows what Izuku will have to do in order to save Tomura…

His fight with Shouto during the Sports Festival was the first time that Izuku was able to save someone.

Not saving someone physically, but being able to save their heart.

Izuku will have to save Tomura both physically and emotionally in order to truly save him. His first memory from his subconscious being of him saving Shouto explicitly shows that.

Izuku won’t be able to save Tomura’s heart through violent means.

Tomura’s first memories shown are also important, as it foreshadows what will eventually allow Tomura to let himself accept Izuku’s help. Each memory are of significant moments that he had with the league, all of them being moments that had a lasting impression on him.

His first time meeting Dabi and Himiko, who were the first people from the outside (people who weren’t directly under All For One’s influence) that he accepted into the league.

His memory of Spinner challenging him, and what Tomura’s goals are (Spinner seeking reassurance from Tomura)…

Tomura’s first thoughts throughout the series have consistently been of the league, and what their wants and needs are. Tomura views them as exceptions from his destruction. He wants them all to have a future where they can live how they see fit.

He wants them to be happy.

Tomura will have to accept that he cannot have both the league's happiness and the destruction of everything.

He will have to choose, but before Tomura can do that he will have to accept the true reason behind his anger, which isn’t what AFO manipulated him into thinking.

Tomura's anger (which drives his want for destruction) stems from his inability to understand how people are able to ignore the suffering of others.

Tomura isn't able to ignore it. He never has.

His inability to ignore others suffering is what made him originally want to be a hero.

Tomura doesn’t understand how people are able to turn a blind eye and go on with their lives despite seeing injustice happen right in front of them.

(How could his family ignore his suffering even though it was happening right in front of them? How could people have walked past him even when he was alone scared and covered in his family’s blood…?)

His anger also stems from a place of hurt.

Tomura copes with no one reaching out and helping him by thinking that he was being punished for killing his family. He copes with people ignoring his suffering by convincing himself that he wanted to kill his family.

(Which stems from his resentment of his family ignoring his suffering, and the sense of relief Tomura felt after killing his father, knowing that he will no longer have to be subjected to his abuse.)

Tomura thinks that his destruction is something inherent within him. That he’s inherently bad.

That he will never feel good again…

Tomura doesn’t see a future for himself where he can be happy.

Izuku will have to prove to Tomura that he isn’t any of these things, and that he does have a future where he can be happy…

Which will be what allows him to truly save Tenko.

#im sorta out of it rn so sorry if none of this makes sense lmfao #i tried my best #mha #my hero academia #mha spoilers #mha 414 #bnha #boku no hero academia #bnha spoilers #bnha 414 #shigaraki tomura #midoriya izuku #meta

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