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katsona-the-katsequel · 2 days

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Background Events: Persona Experimentation

Unethical experimentation on Persona Users has been happening since the beginning. But how has it evolved until now?

Warning: Some speculation will be involved.

TW: Human Experimentation

The Beginning

We don't have an exact date for when experiments related to Personas and the Collective Unconscious began. Phil and Nyarly's bet had been going for some time by the time IF took place. However, if we had to place a true beginning to the experiments, we would have to go with Stephen and the Demon Summoning Program. Along with Kyouji Kuzunoha, he's the only SMT character who's also canon to Persona. Makes sense, considering his weird transcendent nature. The tale may vary between franchises, but the Persona version goes like this:

By unknown means, Stephen managed to create the Terminal System to travel through computer networks. Since he's in a wheelchair in IF, then this Stephen also managed to connect to the Expanse (located in the Collective Unconscious) with the Terminal System. Since he didn't have a way to communicate with the demon who crossed and no Persona to defend himself, Stephen was was attacked and subsequentaly crippled. All of this had to have happened before 1996 for the timeline to make sense (Side Note: This also tells a lot about Stephen, since the incident had the perfect conditions for an Awakening).

The incident led Stephen to create the Demon Summoning Program, probably for personal use, since there was no upcoming war to prepare to (that Stephen could have known of). For some unknown reason, Stephen chose to upload the only copies of the program in the computers of Karukozaka High School. Was he an alumni? Did Stephen realize teens had more probability of connecting with the Expanse? Were Karu High's computers just that good? Who knows. Only Hazama and Tamaki took the program serious enough to use it, even if it was against each other. But that's a story for another time.

Like St. Hermelin would in a few months, Karu High briefly made the news before the entire incident was forgotten. That is highly suspicious on itself. My assumption is that there truly were some experimentation going on before this, amd they made sure to silence the press and make sure the students didn't snitch. Since Tamaki managed to hide among the student population as another victim (probably with Stephen's help), they never questioned her on her abilities nor disappeared her.

But who are they? Well...

SEBEC

The first formal organization seeking to gain a foothold in the Collective Unconscious was the Japanese branch of SEBEC, leadered by Takahisa Kandori. Their story goes like this:

When Kandori took over as head branch of SEBEC, they began to undertake the creation of a device capable of transporting matter from one place to another. Kind of like a portal. This had the main objective of helping to lower freight costs of imports and exports. Maybe even erasing them entirely. Key contributors were Setsuko Sonomura (an engineering specialist) and Dr. Nicholai (a scientist). Kandori kept the project so under wraps that those involved basically lived in the installations. Together they created the Dimension Variable Accelerator System, or DEVA System. However, they also pulled a Backrooms and accidentally connected to the Collective Unconscious.

It is probably at this point that Kandori awoke to his Persona, which was hijacked by the real Nyarlathotep. And thus, Kandori became a puppet in The Great Bet while believing he was achieving world domination or something like that. "But, Kati," I can hear you saying, "all of that was about the Collective Unconscious. Aside from Kandori, there were no Persona Users working with SEBEC".

Oh? OH? So quickly you forget about him?

Takeda. The man, the myth, the barely remembered NPC. All we know about him is that he is Kandori's right-hand man, the head of security at SEBEC and a Persona User. We don't even know what his Persona is, only that its couldn't handle the combined forces of the St. Hermelin students. His existence does imply something deeper: SEBEC is already employing Persona Users to their cause. They probably didn't know much about the phenomena (understandable, since they had just finished the DEVA System) and didn't have a definitive way of figuring out who could be a User and who couldn't. For all they knew this could be random. And so, a not-so-stellar security guard rose to become the second-hand man of the main antagonist. Just because he had the same power as him.

As we know, Kandori and SEBEC failed. But what was the fate of the staff that worked on the DEVA System? What about the little knowledge of the Collective Unconscious they had?

New World Order

Due to Nyarly's meddling, the NWO was founded in 1979 after they found Kiyotada Sumaru's head. They might have had supernatural advice from an ancient head and the backup of one of the most powerful beings in the Persona Universe, but no real Persona Users. Not one of those people had their shit together. The closest thing they had was Chizuru Ishigami, who was a sorcerer (most probable given true power by the Rumor Curse). When the time was right, we can assume Nyarly guided them to the remnants of Kandori's fuck up. The NWO revived Kandori and began their recruitment of the now-lost scientists and inventors. The NWO gave more freedom to their researchers than SEBEC did, which eventually led to the beginning of true human experimentation.

We don't see the worst of it unless you play Tatsuya's Scenario, where the hints they leave us are enough to call for a second Doctors' Trial.

Yikes. And this was only one known experiment.

Like SEBEC before them, the NWO also fell. But they weren't the only ones running supernatural and unethical experiments in 1999.

Kirijo Group

With the creation of the Dark Hour, demons shadows weren't only a danger of the Collective Unconscious anymore, at least, as far as the Kirijo Group knew. Now those in the know had to watch themselves every night to avoid being attacked by them. They couldn't always rely on the perfected version of the Anti-Shadow Suppression Weapons. That must have been the moment when they began to hear rumors of supernatural events in Sumaru City, which led them to the crumbling NWO.

As it turns out, the entire Death Incident a couple of months ago left a huge vacancy for their supernatural research division. And these guys seem like they have fresh ideas that might just solve their self-created problem! A secret scramble must have taken place where the Nanjo and Kirijo Groups tried to covet all the info and personnel that had anything to do with the NWO. Those who weren't important enough to know the truth behind Kiyotada Sumaru's head and their self-proclaimed high-class greatness could have become the precursors of the Conspiracy.

And so, the Kirijo Group now had better scientists, inventors and researchers than before, and more willing to dab on unethical territory. With the need for defense, the former NWO scientists must have suggested they try to create their own Persona Users, like the ones who kept barging into their labs back in Sumaru. Thing is, no one there knew how a Persona User came to be. They did seem to have the power to control a shadow to do their bidding... maybe all they had to do was link (whatever that meant) a human with a shadow. The survivors of these experiments would become bodyguards for the Kirijo Group's excursions to Tartarus. No one would last long, though.

Skip a couple of years and the unexpected happened:

A natural Persona Awakening.

Note was taken of the factors that had to do with the event: the User was a child and she had been in a highly stressful situation. This is how the Kirijo Group rounded up the 100 children they would experiment on to create Artificial Persona Users. All of them dying except for three: Takaya Sakaki, Jin Shirato and Chidori Yoshino (and Sho Minazuki). This violation to the Nuremberg Code probably fell to the side when Mitsuru found and recruited two natural Persona Users on her own. Nothing like flushing dozens of children's lives down the toilet.

We must remember that the Kirijo Group didn't know everything about Personas, and so believed that the stressful situation with a dash of fear of death was necessary every time the User wanted fo summon their Persona. And so Evokers were created. Better not think of the trial and error that led to those inventions. Nor the one that helped create Persona Suppressants.

Who cares if three failed lab rats ran away? Now the Kirijo Group had true Persona Users with them.

A lot happened after that, but that is a story for another day. What about the hypothetical precursors to the Conspiracy formed from the high-profile members of the NWO? The ones that fell through the cracks during the power vacuum?

The Antisocial Force

For once, this wasn't Nyarly's fault. The basic rich bitches would have remained basic rich bitches if it wasn't for Yaldabaoth. The creation of the Shadow Operatives and the less restrictive hold on Kirijo Group employees probably made all that Persona and Collective Unconscious experimentation more of an open secret in the science community. And like hypnosis, this is one secret that most didn't believe until they witnessed it themselves. Not all were skepticals, and those interested were recruited by Masayoshi Shido for the creation of the Antisocial Force.

They would be the new oppressive entity in this area, suppressing information and giving stitches to snitches. This wouldn't stop "Cognitice Psience" from becoming an increasingly popular field. Who knows what kind of experiments happened in and out of the Antisocial Force. They couldn't have been the only ones.

If there is one thing the new Kirijo Group managed to contain, was the knowledge of the creation of Persona Users. The Antisocial Force didn't even have the research from the original NWO scientists that would help them create Artificial Users. Yaldy had to put an already-Awakened Goro Akechi in Shido's path for them to have a User. And even with an actual User, they couldn't replicate the circumstances that could have helped create more. I doubt Akechi was very helpful with that, though. Can't have any potential substitutes for his job.

Nah, the Antisocial Force's forte would never be Persona Users, but rather humanity's cognition.

So, what was the order of events?

Stephen created the Terminal System and began working on the Demon Summoning Program.

SEBEC began working on the DEVA System.

Stephen completed the Demon Summoning Program.

SEBEC finished the DEVA System and, after Kandori's Awakening, began to recruit Persona Users (at least one other than Kandori).

After SEBEC's fall, the New World Order recruited the staff that worked in the DEVA System.

The NWO began to experiment with demons and humans.

The Kirijo Group hired all the scientists and inventors from the NWO.

The Kirijo Group began to create Artificial Persona Users.

After Mitsuru's Awakening, the Kirijo Group focused on children experimentation.

The Antisocial Force began to recruit experts in cognitive psience for personal experiments.

#persona 1 #persona 2 #persona 3 #persona 4 #persona 5 #smt: if...#stephen #takahisa kandori #nyarlathotep #mitsuru kirijo #goro akechi #i have connected the dots #masayoshi shido #tw: human experimentation

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katsona-the-katsequel · 14 days

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If we were to seriously consider a Protag Swap AU, then most of the protags are fucked.

Let's consider P5 for this scenario, since its the most well-known story. The protags considered are Naoya, Tatsuya, Maya, Minato, Kotone, and Yu (and remember, the events of P5 also shape them as they go). Of course, all of them defended the woman and got sued.

I can see everyone but Maya becoming friends with Ryuji and Ann. Those two would get babysitter vibes from Maya instead of reliable older sister (sorry, queen, but maybe you shouldn't have unironically adviced them to Live, Laugh, Love. You're also not a student and have nothing to do with Shujin). We only have Naoya, Tatsuya, Minato, Kotone, and Yu left.

Out of all of them, only Minato, Kotone and Yu would give Akechi the time of day. The rest were either weirded out by his attitude, too annoyed by his plastic smile, or decided it wasn't worth it to get too close to someone investigating the Phantom Thieves (or all of them at the same time). Without the Akechi confidant, the others lost a lot of intel and clues the Phantom Thieves actually got to put the pieces of the mystery together and an ally for the Third Semester.

Kotone never began the Kawakami confidant due to not being invited to Operation Maidwatch. Shame, because she would have reacted a lot like Akira did in lots of main events. I also don't want to put her through the interrogation torture.

Now that I think about it, Yu would have been a smidge more reluctant about the regular Change of Hearts business that the Phantom Thieves undertook. If the circumstances and story aligns, he would go with it in the end, but the entire story and general vibes wouldn't have the same impact than when Akira did it. Minato's Joker is a bit more stoic and way less flashy and passionate about the Phantom Thieves' mission, seeing more like a necessary duty.

In the end, only Akira could do it.

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