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eemoo1o-tfrmoo · 9 months

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Snotlout Jorgenson and the art of defiance*, defamation, and daddy issues

* I will be including his demeanour as a doormat alongside this. I will not be discussing his dissipation in this post as well.

Today, I will be studying Snotlout in (RTTE) and his issues with rule abiding and control management and how his relationship with his father affects this.

The episodes in particular I will be deriving my sources from are:

Reign of Fireworms (1x07)

Team Astrid (2x01)

And, Darkest Night (6x10)

Additionally, an episode I will also be looking at, though only briefly, includes:

Big Man on Berk (1x05)

Firstly, we look at Reign of Fireworms for his acts of defiance towards leadership, with his vast background of defying Hiccup in reference.

(Wow, Tumblr really ate the quality on my already crunchy gif.)

Admittedly, this is a shy example in comparison to anything else I could have picked. Snotlout is known for defying orders and challenging leadership (with Hiccup and later Astrid respectively). However, what makes this episode so different is how Snotlout is so indecisive over the twins’ leadership. Allow me to put a pin in that for later.

Unlike other instances of rejecting leadership, Snotlout reacts similarly to the other riders over the twins’ new roles as Island Rulers, but the main difference between Snotlout and the others is that Snotlout seems to hold no filter over the matter, which is shown with how he is the first to protest, insult, attempt to rebel, and even propose to off the twins.

However, unlike the rest of the riders, Snotlout’s perspective on the twins’ leadership is quick to change when —

The twins give him a job that he likes: “sergeant at arms”.

This job is significant, and as such a role of power. This is seen throughout the episode where Snotlout is the one to throw all of the other riders (save from the twins, but eventually including himself) in jail.

Snotlout is the only one of the riders (with perhaps the exception being Fishlegs, but we don’t see much of that) to take his job, and the twins’ ridiculous rules, the most seriously.

However, once he throws himself in prison — claiming that “he was framed” — he is quick to side with the other riders’ rebellion again.

The main rule that Snotlout is seen sticking to most is the “no S” rule. At first, he seems adverse, with the twins calling for his as “Notlout”, and him completely missing the point, asking who that is and shrugging.

However, once fully embracing his role as “egeant at arm”, Snotlout is heard attempting to remove any S’s from his speech as often as he can. Until he throws himself in jail.

The “throwing himself in jail” aspect of the episode is only used to get the riders all together again, and as a gag, but if we look at it more earnestly it’s sort of telling of how seriously Snotlout took the role and how he was playing into the role so much that he became a different person from his regular self.

Such evidence could be seen in how he claims “I was framed!” instead of “I wa framed!”.

I’m not implying that I think Snotlout has DID, but I am implying that I think his father (and other adults of Berk) — and the first movie — has something to do with this.

As far as I recall, in the first movie, Snotlout was the leader of the teens, and bully of Hiccup. I think it’s also implied that he’s the teen (or all of the teens are, excluding Hiccup) who’s well revered as being what a Viking should be for being strong and hard-headed, but now those are the characteristics that many on Berk frown upon him for. (The civilians even cheered for his death in the Defenders of Berk finale — another gag at Snotlout’s expense.)

I believe it’s also said or at least implied in the first film that Hiccup wants to be like the other kids, specifically Snotlout, and that Snotlout and Astrid were a thing, though the latter seems more expendable for my point to be made.

Now, Thawfest seems to be the only place where Snotlout can prevail over Hiccup (resented family name aside), and as such live up to his father’s expectations to some degree. We even see this inferred with how Snotlout is panicking in the final race over how “he can’t lose”.

We move onto the Defamation element of my analysis, with the few points I’d just made, and as such we skip to the episode Darkest Night.

In this episode, each of the riders (with the exception of Astrid and Hiccup) pitch each of their ideal realities if they’d never gone to Dragon’s Edge.

In Snotlout’s reality (after intruding on the ending of Fishlegs’) is one where he is promoted from Berk’s official weapon tester to their official weapon inventor.

Comparatively, this would be like a drug tester suddenly becoming a pharmacist, or a stunt man inexplicably becoming a choreographer.

The original job (weapon tester) in and of itself is telling of how Berk now views Snotlout. And while no one really mentions how dangerous or implicative the job actually is, we can see for ourselves the danger the job includes in both the twins’ reality and Race to the Edge’s first episode (as the twins’ reality starts off with a clip from the first episode where they place a wheelbarrow of sharp objects next to Snotlout’s pile of pillows whilst he’s testing out a catapult).

I don’t think this job would have been distributed to anyone smart enough to decline it, or at least well-liked enough to dissuade the distributor of said job to offer it to that person. As such, the job is very implicative in how Berk views Snotlout, whether he’s aware of it or not.

Now, in the episode, with the promotion Snotlout gives himself, he emerges from an explosion which is reminiscent of how the first film introduces the rest of the teens, only this time Snotlout is alone.

Unlike the others’ unrealistic realities, Snotlout’s is more like a fantasy than anything.

Not only does this fantasy feed into Snotlout’s egotistical point of view (as this is entirely centric on him, and other characters that are shown in this fantasy don’t pass the Snotlout-based Bechdel test), but we are also reminded of the time when Snotlout was well-liked: the first film, before Berk befriended dragons (though the dragons are still their friends in Snotlout’s fantasy, because as defamed as Snotlout’s image now is in contrast, I don’t think he’d give up Hookfang for the world — inexplicable explosion in the beginning of his fantasy aside), and even in Astrid’s alternate timeline where Berk hadn’t befriended dragons, and Snotlout is also well-liked by Stoick and others.

Firstly, Snotlout states that he invents this superweapon, though what is depicted is an unimaginatively unusable combination of all pre-existing weapons, though in the fantasy everyone adores the ‘invention’. I have the sense that while this isn’t stated to compete with Hiccup’s fire-sword, it is an attempt, because in the real world Hiccup inadvertently overshadows Snotlout in every possible aspect. Even Thawfest, however fleetingly.

In Snotlout’s fantasy, Gobber — who is very infamous for not taking Snotlout seriously or viewing him with any high regards — is the first to interact with Snotlout the Inventor by being completely enamoured with his invention, and praising him profusely on it.

When Hookfang appears in the fantasy just after, his tongue is hanging just marginally out of his mouth and his pupils are large and rotund, and he flies off whilst allowing Snotlout to remain standing on him.

The pupils of a dragon are shown time and time again to be easy tells of their mood. Narrow for hostile or under the influence of mind control (via Death Songs, Bewilderbeasts, Red/Blue/Green Deaths, so on), and wide/large for comfortable, adoring or even playful, as well as under the influence of dragon nip.

However, what makes Hookfang’s expression here most odd — as fantastical as it is — isn’t the very adoring way it’s depicted, but rather the shape of his pupils. We’ve seen Hookfang’s pupils dilated before, but they aren’t ever as round as they are here.

The dragon with the roundest and largest pupils that we know of is actually Toothless (the Night Fury, and as such the Light Fury). While Toothless’ pupils go a bit squarer as the movie series goes on, in the way they are depicted in Race to the Edge they are round, and as such so are Hookfang’s here.

This is obviously another way of showing that Snotlout wants what Hiccup has. In a way, he wants Hookfang to see him like Toothless sees Hiccup.

(A note worth adding us that in Snotlout’s fantasy, there’s even a metal statue of himself on Hookfang which he kisses the cheek of. This feeds into the egotistical side of things, but also serves as a callback to the Riders of Berk episode When Lightning Strikes.)

There’s also this golden, smoky hue over Snotlout’s fantasy which is lacking in the others’ concepts for an alternate reality, which perhaps could symbolise how this is an ideal, self-serving idea, and that these would have been golden memories for Snotlout, if they were to exist.

Next, we see Astrid fawning over Snotlout and then, the moment he is to land, his father scoops him up and says “You make me proud to be a Jorgenson, boyo!”, which is a recurring theme in Race to the Edge with how Snotlout expresses a true desire to hear this.

Which brings us, briefly, back to season one, with the episode Big Man On Berk.

In short, as stated in @jesse-the-writer’s post here, Snotlout seeks validation from men he deems strong, such as Thor and Dagur, due to his faulty relationship with his father.

He idolises them (Dagur more so in and before Riders and Defenders of Berk than after), in a manner similar to how he idolises his father, and in doing so he ignores how they write him off (Thor and Dagur), or forget his name countless times after being corrected (Dagur), or even insult his dragon (Thor) by laughing it off awkwardly and sometimes agreeing.

And all of the above is reminiscent of how Spitelout treats him (mostly in Riders and Defenders of Berk, but in a few instances of Race to the Edge also).

Psychoanalytically, the way parents treat their child pays a big role in how they view and act in relationships. This source focuses on romantic relationships, however some key elements can be attributed to platonic relationships, also.

“For instance, if your parents were not very affectionate and hardly ever hugged or kissed you, you may have an aversion to affection as an adult.”

I recall in the Defenders of Berk episode Scauldy, that when Astrid finally returns Snotlout’s affections/serial flirting (albeit in an insincere but well-acted way), Snotlout is immediately deterred and as such disgusted by her advances.

This is seen again with Ruffnut in the second and third film, and how he is quick to move on from and disregard her when she finally shows interest (albeit in both him and Fishlegs).

This shows that Snotlout actively pursues relationships (assumably romantic) where he is led to believe that his affections will not be returned or where they outright are not. Seeing as Spitelout, too, is not very affectionate, this could be a direct cause to Snotlout’s inability to find mutual affection very favourable or at the very least pleasant.

(A note worth mentioning is that in the season six episode Mi Amore Wing, Snotlout is the most visibly disgusted by the extreme affection shared between Mala and Dagur.)

Now, the most important question: is Snotlout aware of his father’s bad parenting? For that we go to the episode Team Astrid.

(The true villain of How To Train Your Dragon was Hiccup all along.)

Well, of course he is.

I think there’s something to be said for the change in Snotlout’s design. I won’t go too much into the theory here, but when Snotlout was younger he looked more like his father which shows that back then he was probably more blindsided to his father’s bad parenting ethics.

However, now that he is older he looks less like his father (squarer jaw, lighter skin, less freckles, shifted teeth), albeit still related in some way, which could be seen as a metaphor for how Snotlout is still looking up to his father, but is more aware than what he once was about what is so inherently wrong in their relationship (if not directly).

(This theory of mine also includes the idea as to why Spitelout has Deadly Nadder over a Monsteous Nightmare, which is briefly explained in the tags of this post here.)

As such, Snotlout clearly wants revenge that “the world owes him” (a line which could also double as him being owed for passing this opportunity up to actually listen to one of Hiccup’s orders, a trait which he gets better at in most instances as Race to the Edge goes on).

The way that Snotlout also puts emphasis on “I” and “him” here also implies that this is what Spitelout’s influence and presence over him is: a means to correct and shape him in a way that puts him down and never allows him to meet expectations, at least not fully. As such, this affects his ego and desire to be known, seen, as well as his view on relationships that hold a mutually professed affection whilst he still craves and shows a longing for his father’s approval and praise which deters him from anyone else’s (causing him to seek out relationships that are not mutually beneficial).

However, while I believe that Snotlout and Spitelout’s relationship isn’t beneficial to either parties, and as such toxic but not purposefully so (in fact I can imagine Spitelout’s relationship with his own father having been quite similar, but there is no evidence to support this, as far as I recall), I do not believe that it is inherently parasitic (otherwise I would be quoting the twins’ ramble about such relationships from Living on the Edge).

To sum up this analysis, I bring you these points:

Defamation: Snotlout was once well-liked amongst other Berkians for being strong and courageous but since Hiccup befriended the dragons Snotlout has since been pushed aside for the reasons he was once held in high esteem for.

As such, this makes him envious of Hiccup, and Hiccup’s relationship with Toothless, as Hiccup is now the one that everyone likes.

Defiance: This means that he is all too willing to prove and make a fool of himself due to this as well as trying to show to his father that he can amount to his expectations, and as such disregard most orders.

This makes Snotlout very willing to abide rules when he his put in a position of power above others, as seen in Reign of Fireworms. However he can sometimes get too carried away and disassociate himself from the role the more seriously he takes it.

Daddy issues: His and his father’s relationship is the reason why he chases relationships that treat him as the underdog despite his own ego, that either have him pursuing the forever unreciprocated (i.e. Astrid, and later Ruffnut) or even those that he idolises but is always disregarded (like Thor and Dagur), which could be seen as him trying to recreate his and his father’s relationship or perhaps search for the affection he has never properly received, but is immediately deterred once potentially finding or receiving it.

A part of Snotlout sees what is wrong with his and his father’s relationship, as seen with how he wishes to enact revenge through treating his father as he did him.

I think that the damage caused to Snotlout and his relationship with his father isn’t entirely reversible, I do believe that their relationship could reform. However, I don’t think them finding a means of doing so is entirely possible.

#httyd #race to the edge #snotlout jorgenson #character analysis #spitelout jorgenson #big man on berk #thor bonecrusher #reign of fireworms #team astrid #darkest night #analysis #my analyses #fuck spitelout #spitelout neutral post #hookfang #gifs #original post

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rosiethedragongeek · 2 years

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I wanna finally talk about why I hate Spitelout, since I talk so much about how much I hate Spitelout

Every time I try to make this post I make it way too long, so I think I'm gonna do bullet points to try and shorten it lol

(Keep in mind, all quotes are paraphrased, I didn't remember/look for exact phrasing)

TLDR; fuck spitelout jorgenson

--RIDERS/DEFENDERS OF BERK--

--Thawfest--

Spitelout is shown to be super supportive of Snotlout the entire time he's winning, and then yells at him and is verryy disappointed in him when he begins losing

this image set right here

once Snotlout wins Thawfest Spitelout is proud again

Hiccup realizes that Snotlout is actaully scared of what will happen if he loses to the point where he lets Snotlout win (he had no qualms when he knew that Snotlout would just be disappointed and bitter)

'Snotlout your dad looks really mad rn'

'What do you know? He always looks like that'

--Race to Fireworm Island---

Snotlout works Hookfang to the point of death because Spitelout keeps telling him that 'rest is for the weak'

How hard has Spitelout worked Snotlout then? How hard does Snotlout work himself?

When he sees Snotlout clearly distressed over his potentially dying dragon, his best friend, instead of comforting his son Spitelout tells him to get a new one

--RACE TO THE EDGE--

--Astrid's Team--

"I get to point out every one of his mistakes!" implying that Spitelout often points out all of Snotlout's mistakes

Hiccup sees Astrid making Spitelout do pushups; "what did he do?" "he's Snotlout's dad" "enough said"

You can see that as them poking fun at Snotlout but I like to see it as protective Hicstrid

--Snotlout Gets the Ax--

He gives Snotlout the ceremonial ax to bring to the wedding (a big honor) in front of his friends and then lists all of the people he thought would be a better choice for the job who couldn't do it (including Griplout who has no arms) also in front of his friends

"hopefully you're smart enough to know what that means"

Hiccup and especially Astrid who have been blaming Snotlout for dropping the ax and trying to leave him to deal with the consequences on his own all episode volunteer to tell Spitelout it was their fault when it comes time to explain why they were late with the ax

"Then I guess I'll never be good enough for you"

Spitelout blows off Snotlout's emotional speech at the end and pretends there was no reason for Snotlout to be nervous in the first place, completely undermining everything Snotlout said

Seriously watch the way Snotlout and Spitelout interact in the begging (and ending) of the episode, and pay attention to Snotlout's body language like he's so nervous around Spitelout

--A Time to Skrill--

Snotlout is translating for everyone what Spitelout is saying and it's played comedically bc that's obviously not what he's saying the entire time

And he's constantly saying that Spitelout's talking about how proud of him he is

Probs bc Spitelout rarely tells him that

The scene at the end where Spitelout can talk again and he says something along the lines of 'oh we have a lot to talk about' (like he's jokingly mad that Snotlout's been saying he's been saying those things) and then grabs Snotlout's shoulder (which clearly hurts Snotlout) and they all laugh it off (including Snotlout)

It was annoying when he ignored Hiccup's plan and just ran into battle so -5 points

--Turn and Burn--

Snotlout clearly doesn't like what's going on/wants to go with Hiccup (look at his face when they split) but goes with Spitelout anyway bc that's just the effect he has on him

This episode was pretty mild though

--Notlout--

Convinces Snotlout that none of his friends are being honest about their intentions and that they're all vying to get leadership positions when Hiccup's chief

Makes Snotlout think that he has to do the same or he won't be good enough

"A Jorgenson doesn't ask permission to be great"

"He takes what's rightfully his" or smth like that

Gives Snotlout nightmares about his friends mocking and abandoning him

Makes Snotlout so anxious that his vision blurs and he hallucinates

'Whatever greatness I end up doing and trust me it will be great, it has to be what I want not what my dad wants"

--Darkest Night--

Snotlout's idealized version of a world where they never left Berk includes Spitelout being super proud of him

And him saying smth like 'wow dad it's so great that we've always had a great relationship with perfect communication' or smth

--King of Dragons-- (I can't remember part one or two)

Spitelout's just like I'm proud of you son and that's it like they don't actually resolve any of their issues

This is more of a gripe with the writers/directors than Spitelout but

--MISCELLANEOUS--

Snotlout holding a twig while Fishlegs and Throck name their hedge sculptures "i call this My Lousy Childhood"

Snotlout's obvious self-esteem issues

Snotlout's toxic masculinity

Snotlout's misogyny

"See ya wouldn't wanna be ya! Ha! That's how we say goodbye Jorgenson style! or at least that's how my dad says goodbye to me"

He makes Snotlout make faces like this:

And this:

fuck spitelout

Let me know if I missed anything, or if you disagree with something, or if any of my points need clarification! I know that doing it with the bullet points removed a lot of context from stuff

I just wanna hear what people think of this analysis

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