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eu-legends · 2 years

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What legends got RIGHT- and that TCW got wrong:

Clones.

Like. Dont even come at me if you dont know what the definition of the word clone even is. Clones are not twins. They aren't even IDENTICAL twins, they are CLONES.

With that bit out of the way, I would like to dive deeper into lore and WHY the change was a BAD IDEA.

Clones are manufactured in a lab.

This one isnt even lore. This is reality. All clones are lab grown. No, seriously. Thats what they are IRL.

Star Wars Legends Canon has been and always will be a SCI-FI film, based on REAL, ACTUAL SCIENCE. Because it was made by a science nerd, expanded on by science and sci-fi nerds. As such, one can reasonably assume that the resulting clones are ALSO lab grown.

...Which... they are. Its... its right there.... in the prequels...

Clones are canonically manufactured by Kaminoans. A species that SPECIALIZES in creating, not just clones, but specifically, clone ARMIES. These beings are not just using existing cloning technology we see in our science labs, they are in a sci-fi universe. They are leagues ahead of the existing science of the time. They are leading geneticists. They modify the clones they manufacture to a high degree in order to ensure absolute customer satisfaction.

If you are dealing with soldiers in war, dissent is not acceptable. Individuality is not approved. In fact, conformity and uniform and absolute obedience within the rank is not just expect, but DEMANDED with penalty of death. Thats just basic military function regardless of what country they fight for. This is BASIC KNOWLEDGE. And THESE are the kinds of products the Kaminoans are GUARANTEEING their customers. They are, in fact, guarunteeing a more reliable set of soldiers than can be gathered in any other circumstance precisely because these are CLONES who have been genetically modified to remove any form of dissent or disobedience whatsoever. They literally bred individuality OUT. That was literally the POINT.

Which is why when it came to arc troopers, where the Kaminoans were EXPERIMENTING with individuality for the sake of decision making and tactical advice in rare instances required, they had the arc troopers in COMAS and tried to REFUSE to allow anyone to wake them because they were TOO free thinking for the Kaminoan's product standards.

All of this aside, we also have the whole nature vs nurture argument that everyone just loves to throw out there to defend clone individuality. Which would be an excellent point..........if the nurture was different for every clone....... which they werent.... because they grew up in a lab.... by the same people.... being taught the same things.... by people with the same accent and vocabulary........

Basically, in scientific terms, they ARE the control group. NOTHING is varied.

So now lets go back to the fact of what clones are. It is an EXACT copy of the original. Which would be.... Jango Fett. Keep in mind, this lab isnt a sperm bank, its a clone manufacturer. They arent creating unique individuals, they are recreating the original and THEN modifying the genes to program out the natural impulses to do what they want so that they can be good little obedient soldiers. And then these modified copies of Jango Fett are TRAINED by Jango Fett himself. So every single one of these clones are gonna look, act, fight, and talk just like Jango Fett.... but without free will. And so when the CLONES begin to teach NEW clones that are ALSO exactly like them, once again, they just as well be learning from the original Jango Fett himself with preprogrammed loyalty- a loyalty that is programmed straight into their DNA sequence. Because if it wasnt.... the Kaminoans wouldnt sell the clones to anyone in the first place and we wouldnt have the Star Wars franchise as we know it today.

Now this is not to say that Clones are not individuals, because they are. Their unique experiences ON THE BATTLEFIELD, WITH THE JEDI AND OTHER SOLDIERS can and does impact the clone. This is where the NURTURE finally begins to make itself known.

But by the time the clones get to experience anything UNIQUE from the other clones, their personality is already hardwired and any variation is going to be minimal at most. And their voice and accent most CERTAINLY would not change anymore than you can expect a full grown New Yorker trying to speak like a southern gramma. It can be forced, but it wont stay that way for long.

Annd.... I think by now you can probably guess where Im gonna say TCW got it wrong.

Clones should not be recognizable outside of arc troopers versus regular clones....due to their armor. Clones would be uniformed. They will have the same taste because they are COPIES of JANGO FETT. They will sound exactly the same. TCW should not have even TOLD the voice actor which clone he was voicing. Maybe for script writers a specific word could be used to identify, but for the voice actor to do an actually convincing clone voice for the many clones OF JANGO FETT, he should not have even known how many clones he was scripting. For all he knew, it could have (should have) been just one clone throughout the entire series.

TCW completely ignored the GENETIC MODIFICATION that the clones went through that GUARUNTEED one outcome: obedient, reliable, efficient soldiers the republic could depend upon.

What's worse, is that TCW straight up ignores the very definition of the word clone and treats the clones as if they are twins instead. If the clones were more like twins, then they would have had to have been raised and trained by completely different people of completely different accents in completely different environments. And TCW doesnt justify the so called individuality of the CLONES with this kind of caveat whatsoever.

They also make the REGULAR clones far too individual and daring in voicing their own opinions. The Kaminoans would have never let that fly. They would have euthanized the clones and started over to get an absolutely perfect product production because, like it or not, thats what they are in Star Wars: A product for nations to buy for the sake of war. And yet, somehow, TCW thinks its completely fine and normal to have clones being capable of advancing rank. They CANT advance rank when free will and individual thinking IS MISSING FROM THEIR DNA. Like. Thats literally a selling feature. Filoni does know this........right.....?

And speaking of rank, lets return to the arc troopers, for a minute. These ARE special and unique, by design. Because Arc troopers are specially trained to be able to take on unique roles that regular clones cannot, and to be CAPABLE of making decision and giving advice- But even then, they ultimately have no free will aside from following orders. By DESIGN. Obedience and strict loyalty is STILL programmed genetically into them and once again, i would like to point out how the republic had to INSIST that the Kaminoans even SELL their experimental arc troopers.... because the Kaminoans still considered them TOO UNIQUE and therefore TOO HIGH A RISK to their reputation of being a reliable clone army manufacturer.

Arc troopers are SUPPOSED to be the smarter, quirkier, unique clones. But at the end of the day, EVEN WITH modified nurture to accommodate the unique roles arc troopers must fill, they are still COPIES OF JANGO FETT, TAUGHT BY JANGO FETT. Their differences are not gonna be that remarkable!

And yet-!! And yet, TCW ignores all of this and tries to claim it is SOMEHOW canon with the prequels.

Ok. Ok, lets talk about the other bantha in the room.

Order 66.

Before we even get started, lets go back to how real world militia units work.

If a soldier gets a command and fails to execute it, he is killed by whoever catches him refusing to do the order. This is standard procedure in every militia group in history. Ask any veteran in any nation and they will confirm this as fact.

What if the soldier's commanding officer is commiting treason and someone next on the ladder tells the soldier to execute his commanding officer? Again, standard procedure demands that the soldier kills the commanding officer or the soldier, too, will be killed for compliamce in a treasonous act.

THIS IS WHAT ORDER 66 IS AND ALWAYS WAS: A STANDARD FAIL SAFE MILITARY PROCEDURE THAT EVERY MILITARY GROUP HAS.

THIS is why order 66 was devestatingly effective in Legends. THIS is why legends didnt need any prior excuse for the clones to 'betray' the Jedi. Because acting on order 66 is an act of explicit loyalty to the republic by executing their treasonous commanding officers, the Jedi. The programming for such obedience ALREADY EXISTS IN THEIR DNA. The programming already exists in STANDARD MILITARY TRAINING. This is knowledge George Lucas expected his audience to come to the table with because this is STANDARD even in our world.

TCW spits in the face of anyone who has been in a militia group of any sort. TCW suggests that the clones and soldiers could never kill their jedi commanders unless they had a computer chip?!? hidden in their brain that SOMEHOW medical personel (especially JEDI medical personel) would just.......not notice? If they cant trust the clones to execute a basic fail safe miltary command for their nation, then they are not fit to be soldiers and should never have made it out of the Kaminoan factory in the first place.

And im not even gonna try to unpack the whole issue the chips bring up on top of it all.

so tl;dr? The title says it all. Legends got the clones right and Filoni's TCW did not.

~ Mod Purple

Hey, cutting in for Purple. Let's not even get into a regular clone some how commiting treason or another soldier walking away from the path of a soldier. Those two should be probably the biggest anomaly's ever and the first one should alarm every Jedi ever because they were told that a clone turning traitor is basically impossible. This would basically nearly cripple the Republic and order 66 because who is going to trust a clone when one went AWOL almost immediately after ATOC? Like I personally like TCW clones don't get me wrong but only if they didn't exist in SW or weren't actual clones or were maybe their own thing. I could probably accept it but it's so weird and random and doesn't even fit in the movies (just like most of TCW).

Also, a solution to this to make people more attached to clones: Make it the more independent clones like arc troopers, commandos, or commanders (Cody and such), or give regular clones small personality quirks, like one talks in a lower tone a bit, or one cleans his weapon often. One clone came out looking a bit older than the rest but is still good enough to be accepted by the Kaminoans because he was still skilled etc. They could have done so much more that would be rewarding to viewers. For example, one funny personality trait that Cody has is being more positive on things.

~ Mod A.

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