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theweeklydiscourse · 17 days

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This is an interesting line for several reasons, the biggest of which is Mal’s choice of hyperbole when expressing his love for Alina. The implications of this passage are sexual in nature, this is made most obvious by the imagery of “dancing naked” and Mal isolating aspects of Alina into “parts”.

He says “even the part of you that loved him” which to me, indicates a certain level of discomfort Mal still has with Alina’s sexuality and attraction towards the Darkling. This discomfort informs his division of Alina into parts, distinguishing his perception of Alina from “the part” of her that stepped outside of that role. When this is placed alongside his insinuation of Alina’s sexual attraction, it becomes clear that Mal has difficulty reconciling the two versions of Alina that have appeared.

It’s not a coincidence that the most exaggerated example he can conjure is dancing naked on the rooftop of a palace. Referencing the Little Palace functions as a symbol of Mal’s perceptions of Grisha, where the palace is a grand example of their perceived decadence and priority to the monarchy. Throughout the book, readers will see ordinary folk expressing resentment towards the seemingly better treatment that the Grisha get. Sometimes, the Grisha are portrayed as overtly spoiled and haughty individuals as well (even though they have less freedoms and are at a great disadvantage) To Mal, Alina dancing on top the Little Palace is meant to evoke a sense of careless hedonism and excess that he resented her for earlier in the book.

The “dancing naked” part is obviously a euphemism for sex, and it predictably aligns Alina’s relationship with the Darkling with her sexuality. The Darkling comes to be associated with maturity and sensuality, he fits into the archetype of the “dark older lover” who awakens Alina to a new world. Despite the fact that they never have sex or confirm their relationship under any title, the erotic nature of their relationship is in stark contrast with the comparatively chaste and childlike relationship Malina represents (Pretty ironic considering that Mal and Alina have sex in R&R)

This fits into the narrative of purity in Shadow and Bone. Alina aligning herself with the Darkling would mean embracing pleasure, power, and sexual desire, and that is something that the narrative deems as immoral or “greedy”. Inversely, going with Mal becomes the “pure” and humble option where she forgoes power and fame for Mal’s sake. This is where Alina is divided into two halves (in Mal’s view) there is the Repressed Alina, who he knows from childhood and wants to stay with, and the Sun Summoner Alina, whose maturity and newfound strength draws her further away from him.

The former was committed to staying with Mal at the expense of herself, while the latter found fulfillment and realized desire elsewhere. Repressed Alina is characterized as a sort of virtuous and humble person (even when that is quite the opposite) whereas Sun Summoner Alina is characterized as greedy and prone to corruption. This serves the narrative of purity culture in the trilogy by eventually framing Mal as the voice of reason in response to Alina’s supposed corruption.

According to the narrative, the worst thing Alina could be is similar to the Darkling. She can’t desire power or sexual fulfillment (from anyone other than her predetermined husband) and is left in a state of immaturity once she loses her powers. She will stay in the garden of childhood with a man that could never truly recognize the multifaceted nature of her identity.

#shadow and bone #Darklina #alina starkov #the darkling #s&b critical #lb critical #grishaverse #aleksander morovoza #anti Malina #malyen oretsev #the grisha trilogy #grishaverse meta #ruin and rising #darklina meta

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aleksanderscult · 1 month

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What kind of "Alina" did Aleksander want?

I've seen so many different people in this fandom give their own opinion about how did the Darkling wanted Alina to be.

Did he wanted her meek, weak and obedient?

Did he wanted her strong and powerful?

So I took the liberty of creating this post to analyze this issue through his own words, thoughts and actions.

I know how popular the "Aleksander wanted her submissive by the way he put that collar around her" theory it but it doesn't really stand because:

A) we will never know how things would turn out if Baghra didn't approach Alina that particular night but it actually seems that he wanted to take her with him to the north.

“The key to the Shadow Fold is finally within our grasp, and right now, I should be in the war room, hearing their report. I should be planning our trip north. But I’m not, am I?”

He couldn't keep the truth from her forever so at some point of that journey he would definitely spill the beans to her.

B) he forcefully put the collar around her throat because she showed resistance at the worst possible moment. The Darkling had already set the wheels in motion: the King was slowly getting sick and the whole country (and most importantly, their enemies) would know it (so he had to work fast before anybody got any ideas of siege, rebellion or war) and he himself would have to show his true colors and plans. By having Alina slip away and act all dramatically with Mal was a blow to his plan and stomach since not only he had Alina as an enemy now but he fell for her so her rejection hurt him on a personal level.

(that weekend MUST have been the worst of his life)

He didn't want her to take that power unwillingly:

Or steal her powers in a violent manner:

He had little time and little patience. He worked his ass off for centuries and tolerated so much bullshit from the monarchs. He wouldn't allow her to foil his schemes. But it's also interesting how his feelings got in the way too and, therefore, acted impulsively.

But! How did he want her?

Well, the very fact that he grew up around a very strong, powerful and stubborn woman is an answer by itself. Baghra's influence definitely played its part if you look at this from a psychological point of view.

“It seems that most men are after a significant other that will essentially replace their mum.

A recent study by eHarmony has found that 64 percent of men are in a relationship with someone who shares significant personality traits with their mother. Fortunately, it’s totally normal from an evolutionary, psychological standpoint.”

Many studies have shown that plenty of men and women search a partner that resembles their mother and father respectively.

It wouldn't be surprising if Aleksander was the same given how many centuries he spent with his own mother and how much of an influence the latter was to her son in his childhood.

There is an abundant amount of proof in the books that Aleksander wanted Alina to be strong, powerful, to embrace her true self and believed that there was more to her.

He thought of her as someone like him and could see himself in her, no matter how much Alina denied it.

Baghra raised him to value power, so seeing Alina shy away from it is strange and peculiar to him. She has the chance to change everything and she seeks things that are beneath her. Aleksander can't fathom that because he doesn't believe that she's meant for something as simple and pathetic as this.

He chastises her for the choices she makes and the wishes she has. She was destined to shine and be seen and here we are watching a girl trying to hide her potential.

If Aleksander wanted her submissive he would be glad to see her state in the beginning of S&S. She's weak, right? So a perfect victim to have that can't fight him back. But, in fact, he's furious, disappointed and unsurprised with her state.

Aleksander never wanted her meek or weak. He even admired her stubborness:

(there is a sense of admiration and annoyance here)

BUT he never wanted that stubborness and ferocity to be directed against him:

He even thought of her better than the men that surrounded her and believed that they couldn't measure up to her power:

The aftermath of their battle in the chapel is extremely interesting because we see the Darkling showing a genuine admiration for her powers and how quickly she (sort of) mastered them:

It also seemed that he showed understanding for the fact that she wanted to keep her freedom. Now that was a very good reason to fight him in his eyes. Since the Darkling himself believed in freedom and fought for it.

And, of course, he offered her a throne at his side. He didn't mind sharing power as long as she wasn't an obstacle to his plans.

He strongly believed in equality between them and according to the author he envisioned a future with her:

In order to have someone to keep your power under control then that person needs to be as powerful as you.

And then we have him at his most vulnerable state confess that he didn't lie about equality after all:

He talked about equality again and again. His disgust and anger every time he saw her weak from not using her powers was prevalent as well as his admiration every time she used her powers to their fullest.

The only thing in which he found her inferior to him was her knowledge of power. Which is understandable since Aleksander had much more time to understand it, study it and use it.

In RoW, his anger and disappointment for her state continues.

So:

1) He believed that she could rule as Queen and her life in hiding is not right for her.

2) He believed that she was meant to be powerful and strong and stood by that statement many times.

3) Didn't consider her life a worthy life at all.

The only character in the Grishaverse, the one that people keep saying that she wanted her weak, was the only one that wanted the opposite for her and considered her fate disgusting, wrong and tragic.

His plan of having Alina on an equal stand beside him continued in this book as well:

Which means that he wasn't lying when he said that he didn't intend to make a slave of her.

And of course her stubborness was a trait that he found annoying and admiring at the same time. It showcased how strong-willed she really was:

So according to his own thoughts and words, I would say that Aleksander actually admired her fierceness and determination. It showed strength and he found it attractive. In fact, it probably even enhanced his conviction that she was the right partner for him.

But he didn't want that hostility to be directed against him and his plans. Which is not weird at all because what kind of person would like someone to screw up his goals.

In conclusion: Aleksander was actually the biggest fan of "powerful Alina".

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eggsaladstain · 1 year

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I just love the way you write, so gonna pick your brain here: why do you think people are so drawn to Darklina? Is it the tragedy of it? The gothic aspect to it? The darkness (funnily enough) of it? Or is it just the chemistry between the actors? Thoughts?

hi anon, thanks for reading and thanks for the ask! i've been sitting on this for a bit because i don't really ship darklina and thus don't have many thoughts about them but then once i started thinking about them i couldn't stop so here we are.

i can't speak for anyone else but for me personally what i love about this pairing is the tension and symbolism and the epic two-halves-of-a-whole vibe they've got going on and there are also some interesting parallels between darklina and kanej, so despite not actively shipping it, i genuinely think it's one of the most interesting ships in the entire grishaverse and certainly the most complex and complicated relationship alina has.

i'll talk about both the books and the show because i think they each do a good job showing different aspects of their relationship, and i actually kind of think you need to take the books and show together to get the complete picture of this compelling if ultimately doomed ship.

please know, anon, that when i opened this ask, i had planned on a pretty short answer and then i ended up writing 2k words about this because yes, apparently i do have thoughts and yes, that is a threat.

let's dive in.

at its core, darklina is about the attraction and balance between opposites. he summons shadows, she summons light, they're two sides of the same coin, they're made for each other! but then we find out that the darkling is actually manipulating alina, that he's the one who created the fold, that he's her enemy, and instead of sinking the ship, it actually makes it even better because you get that added tension and forbidden attraction between good and evil, between the hero and villain.

in the books, their relationship goes from romantic to adversarial to the mutual understanding that they have a connection to each other that they will never have with anyone else. for all its faults (and there are many), the original trilogy does a fantastic job fleshing out alina's relationship with the darkling and showing the love, the animosity, and above all else, the undeniable pull between them. we really get a sense of alina's acute loneliness and desire to belong somewhere, not just before she discovers her powers, but even after she comes into her power and learns that despite her new tribe with the grisha, she's still different, she's still ultimately alone. it's no wonder then that she would be so drawn to the darkling, who understands her loneliness, who gives her the attention she craves, who looks at her like she is something special. even after she finds out the truth about him, she continues to reach for him through their tether because despite the manipulation and lies, he is still the only one who truly understands the weight that she carries, he is still the only one who truly sees and embraces the darkness within her. he's her mirror image, reflecting not only her capacity for good and her desire to save ravka, but also showing her her darkest desires and instincts.

their relationship doesn't have nearly as much nuance in the show, and i get it, they only had a limited number of episodes, but the decision to turn darklina into a one-sided obsession on the darkling's part in season 2 was a big misstep in my opinion. in the books, their relationship is built on a mutual longing between both of them and even when alina finally kills him, she still grieves for him, says his name, and sees him through his final moments so he's not alone at the end. i've written before how much i love the subversive ending of ruin and rising and i especially love the closure we get in the relationship between alina and the darkling. it's a pyrrhic victory, not a triumphant one, and the darkling's death is very much a loss for alina. she does not kill him because of vengeance or to save the world, she kills him as a mercy, to put an end to his relentless suffering. the final book also acknowledges, crucially, that while the evil is ultimately defeated, this evil was not some monster or demon but a flesh and blood man, a boy.

in the books, alina is in her late teens and while the darkling is centuries old, he looks to be only a few years older than her. i understand why they chose to age up the characters on the show and ben barnes is fantastic as the darkling, but the fact that they were visibly closer in age in the original trilogy means there was less of an overt power imbalance between them because while the darkling was still the leader of the second army, he was also a bit more approachable due to his appearance of youth. not only that, their relationship in the books has an innocence that it doesn't really have in the show because a 17 year old girl being friendly and flirting with a 20 year old boy is fundamentally different from a 25 year old woman pursuing a relationship with a 39 year old man.

a younger darkling is also SO much more tragic, especially since his entire character can be summed up in this absolute banger of a quote from ruin and rising: in this moment he was just a boy - brilliant, blessed with too much power, burdened by eternity. the tragedy of the darkling is that he was forced to bear the burden of his power and persecution when he was just a boy and he had to continue bearing that burden for centuries, and it's so much more tragic to see a life cut short at 20 vs 40 because of that innocence that we associate with youth, even if that youth is an illusion and even (and especially) if that innocence is a lie. the tragedy of the darkling is that he had so much power but at his core, he was just a lost, lonely boy, and it makes him a much better foil for alina because, had she not lost her power in the books, she may have gone down the same path and that quote could have just as easily applied to her.

now, having said all this, the show, for all it faults (and there are also many), does a much better job (more so in season 1) of humanizing the darkling. part of that is just due to the books being written in alina's POV, meaning we never really know how the darkling actually feels, so being able to see the darkling's actions and motivations through a more objective perspective in the show goes a long way in fleshing out his character. the other part is, of course, ben barnes and the way he highlighted the tragedy in the darkling's story and tried his best to elevate the character above a typical villain, despite the season 2 script doing him no favors. in the books, we only see the darkling through alina's lens so we don't ever truly know how he actually feels about her, but the show makes it very clear that the darkling's feelings for alina are real. maybe it starts out as manipulation, but the power imbalance between them very quickly turns in her favor as it becomes clear that he needs her, desperately, in a way that she doesn't really need him. alina may have felt lonely for 20-some years of her life, but for the darkling, it's been centuries. it's centuries of loss and persecution that have made him who he is, and it's no wonder then that he would be drawn to alina, a literal light in the darkness, and see her as his salvation.

as i mentioned earlier, the show makes their relationship much more one-sided with the darkling refusing to let alina go, even after she hurts him, even as she hates him. in their final confrontation after the fold, he knows she is there to kill him, but when his nichevo'ya has her by the throat, he tries frantically to stop it because in spite of everything he's done, all the atrocities he's committed, the one thing he will never do is kill her. he certainly doesn't deserve a pat on the back for this and his behavior towards her is objectively bad and creepy, but it also shows just how all-consuming his desperation is. after centuries of searching, he has finally found someone who is like him, and he cannot bring himself to give her up, no matter the cost to himself, no matter the cost to her. it's incredibly selfish, but it's also achingly human.

in the books, we don't really see this desperation until the end of ruin and rising when alina loses her power and the darkling realizes that he is now truly alone, that he has no longer has an equal, and alina herself realizes that his pain will be endless. in the show, we see this theme - his desire and his need for her - woven throughout his interactions with alina from the very beginning, culminating with her death at his hands, albeit under very different circumstances than the book.

this is why i say that the books and show complement each other when it comes to darklina - with the books, you see how alina was drawn to the darkling and how she genuinely cared for him in spite of everything, and in the show, you see how the darkling was drawn to alina and how desperate he was to save her from following in his footsteps.

there's even a set of complementary quotes that perfectly encapsulate why this ship is so compelling and why it's so doomed.

in ruin and rising, you have the darkling saying you might make me a better man and alina answering and you might make me a monster.

and in 2x08, you have the darkling saying let me be your monster. let me carry the hatred of this world. who will be there to save you? and alina answering, i will save myself.

the allure of darklina is that it's about finding the one person who makes you feel less alone, the one person who can save you and destroy you in equal measure, the one person who sees and accepts you as you are, even the worst parts of you.

the tragedy of darklina lies with the darkling, because he is driven by pain and loss and the desire to escape both of those things. this is a man who will never allow himself to love someone more than he fears the pain of losing them, and he only allows himself to love alina because he believes he will never lose her to the ravages of time, he only allows himself to love her because he thinks he will be safe from pain with her. now compare him to sankta neyar, another character who has also lived and lost for centuries. as i previously wrote about here, the darkling views love as a weakness while neyar views it as a strength, and it is because of this (and, you know, the atrocities) that he ultimately loses alina. and despite how much alina resists him, the darkling is unable to let her go, unable to stop himself from trying to save her, even when she makes it clear that she does not want or need him to do so. the tragedy of darklina is that this is the only way he knows how to love her.

now, let's look at kanej, which has more than a few similarities with darklina. much like the darkling and alina, kaz and inej also have twin traumas, they also understand each other in a way that no one else does, they have also seen and accepted the worst parts of each other. like calls to like applies to them just as much, and even the r&r quote fits them perfectly as inej does make kaz a better man and kaz does make inej a monster. in six of crows, kaz tells oomen, who stabbed inej, my wraith would counsel mercy but thanks to you, she’s not here to plead your case and in 2x08, we see kaz offering to buy out kesh and any other indentures after inej asked him to consider it in 1x01 (gifset here). and it's kaz who teaches inej to kill, who gives her the tools she needs to survive in the barrel, culminating in her vicious threat to pekka rollins at the end of crooked kingdom and her declaration that they destroy him in 2x03 when she finds out pekka killed kaz's brother.

kanej is such a great foil for darklina because where darklina said you might make me a better man and you might make me a monster, kanej said we will make each other better, and we will be monsters together. kaz and inej each put in the effort to overcome their respective traumas in order to be together and they each do violent, unsavory things in order to protect the other, and despite the fact that both crooked kingdom and 2x08 end with inej leaving, it's clear that the two of them will find their way back to each other in time.

alina doesn't end up making the darkling a better man, though on the show, she does become a monster, for mal by using merzost to bring him back, and for ravka, by using the shadow cut to kill the fjerdan spy. it's a really fitting evolution of her character on the show and the natural progression of her relationship with the darkling, that she would defeat him only to become him in the end.

as i said at the top of this, i don't actively ship darklina, but i am fascinated by the tension and complexity of their relationship and i love how the book canon and show canon build on each other to give us a complete picture of these two individuals who are so similar yet so different at the same time. they're parallel lines who will never cross. they're the sun and moon who can never share the same sky. they're the perfect tragedy.

#darklina #darklina meta #kanej #kanej meta #shadow and bone meta #sab meta #shadow and bone #grishaverse #the darkling #alina starkov #kaz brekker #inej ghafa #sab season 2 #ruin and rising #six of crows #crooked kingdom #meta #answer

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greensaplinggrace · 11 months

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“Character A didn’t love Character B because they hurt them” discourse is truly terrible because it assigns a moral value to love that simply does not exist. love doesn’t actually mean anything about someone’s character. it doesn’t make someone’s actions toward another any better or any worse, it doesn’t prevent atrocities, and it doesn’t prevent abuse.

love is a worthless emotion when it comes to morals because it simply holds no bearing on them. true love doesn’t exist. there is no better or more pure version of love. in the end love doesn’t mean anything. it’s a non-emotion. it’s the child of passion and affection and dedication. doing something bad doesn’t preclude a feeling of love, because a lack of love isn’t a requirement for immoral actions, and morality isn’t a requirement for feeling love.

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piolhyna · 5 months

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Unpopular opinion: Specially in the Aleksander fan club, but the Darkling for the good of a story (and his own lol) needs to change.

I know, the blasphemy. But it's true! Homeboy over here is heavily traumatized and emotionally constipated.

Do I want that for him forever? Life has sucked, he has a point. But jesus, even if his defense mechanism of shutting everyone out and everything kinda works, it's a miserable way to live!

I want him to see the good in people again, to have hope for a better future without blood, sweat and tears. I want him to connect with his emotions and to choose to be vulnerable and seek love without chains.

I remember from a meta from the wonderful @theweeklydiscourse that they thought Alina and the Darkling's story could have evolved in a direction in which Alina and her new perspective could make the Darkling see and hope for a better life, a gentler life. And that's what makes me so mad about the canon 😭

Give 👏 me 👏 that 👏 story. I want an inmortal that falls in love with life again. I want the Darkling to be in deep depression, to tell Alina "this would be what happens to you" and for her to be like "hell no. Watch this" and for him to be like "I WAS WRONG. I want to trust in people again. The happiness of having them is worth the pain of losing them"

Also controversial opinion, but I don't want the Darkling to rule Ravka?? My perfect ending will be for them to retire into an University of Grisha Studies. I want him to fund a new Little Palace free from the pain of the past, an actual school for the Grisha and people who want to understand the Grisha. No more politics, no more fights, that's toxic. I want them to build and protect the future through education of the masses. There aren't any fics about that peopleeeee 😭

#Long ass meta that came from nowhere #But really I want to know y'alls opinion #shadow and bone #Darklina #The darkling #aleksander morozova #alina starkov

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metvmorqhoses · 1 year

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you are just salty your fave psychopath was revealed for the inhuman emotionless bastard he is

So, now the psychopath is the one who, just barely alive, hurries to free caged and dehumanized people once again, after spending his literal excruciating immortality to try and keep them safe and reaping of it nothing but hatred in return.

Now the psychopath is the one who shows infinite patience and forgiveness towards the person he loves despite her being completely undeserving of it and not showing a grain of the same consideration towards him, not even out of basic human decency, instead accusing him of everything that even mildly inconveniences her and trying to kill or maim him every other minute.

Now the psychopath is the one who unrelentingly tries to shield her from a future living hell, from taking his place as universal scapegoat and readily awaits her with open arms nonetheless.

Now the psychopath is the one who, just mutilated by his own mother (not only in body, but in soul, since his hand was the link to literally everything he held dear), who coincidentally is also his life-long abuser and tormenter, hurries by her side and cradles her dying body, sobbing and apologising, instead of giving his own wound any consideration, only to receive a spiteful "stupid boy" in return.

Now the psychopath is the one that, even dying, even knowing he's about to be finished off by the only one who should have loved and understood him in all eternity, still tries to save her in all the ways he knows how.

Now the psychopath is the one who, even in death, cannot help but respond to her face of hatred with pride and a smile.

I see. The soulful ones are for sure your beloved heroes, Alina above all.

#enjoy them i guess #shadow and bone #the darkling #aleksander morozova #darklina #sab spoilers #anon #asks/replies #sab metas

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goblins-riddles-or-frocks · 6 months

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What do you think of "with her he was human again"?

Makes me kind of insane!

I mean I read it as genuine, that’s literally his own thought in his own POV. There’s no one to put up a front for.

I think that line confirms both that he was genuinely emotionally compromised beyond a completely cold possessiveness/desire to subjugate her. But also is the first hint towards his incredibly grudging redemption in RoW because he’s acknowledging that feeling human is something he actually wants!

Complete antithesis to “the problem with wanting is that it makes us weak” in a very quiet and subtle way.

#grishaverse #shadow and bone #people who think he was character assassinated in the KoS duology are simply incorrect #those books were VERY soft on him #rule of wolves #aleksander morozova #the darkling #darklina #alarkling #i ramble sometimes #all the bendy punctuations #a mysterious stranger has appeared #meta

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unabashedmoonlight · 3 months

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The thought of Aleksander doing all that and putting three amplifiers on her only for the making to be like "no <3" and just taking away her powers (really not sure on how this works because is it her greed if those are forced on her? does the making like run a background check everytime on what actually happened lmao) but yeah basically the very anti-climatic conclusion to all this affair with him getting absolutely nothing in the end . The mental breakdown. What would he even do after that 😭?

He would have to fake his death 😭. It would be just too embarassing to face the second army soldiers after that. That is if he is still sane, the chances of that being low shdshj.

Extra points if Baghra is still there to taunt him.

#the darkling #shadow and bone #aleksander morozova #alina starkov #baghra morozova #darklina #lol #my meta #?? is it lmao #my au

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sailor-hufflepuff · 1 year

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I’ve been musing more on my villain binge. As a teenager, I DID NOT GET why so many people liked villains. I wanted a knight in shining armor, treat me right, get along with my mama boy in real life, so why would I want something different for the fictional heroines I lived vicariously through?

Zutara was my first “villain ship”, although I would have passionately argued at the time that Zuko wasn’t a villain, he was an antagonist - not evil, but a child soldier who had been brainwashed into believing he was truly helping the world.

I found the similarities between him and Katara fascinating. The loss of their mothers, their love for their nations, the absolute conviction in doing what they believe is right… the way that, even fighting, they were equals.

Fast forward a few years to Loki. How an abused child desperate for attention did something half prank, half sincere attempt to protect his people from Thor’s wildly unprepared rule spun out of control in ways beyond his ability to handle. The psychotic break that came from his discovery of his true parentage in the worst possible way. I myself had a mental breakdown when I was seventeen when I discovered the truth of my own birth, so that struck me especially hard.

Then in “The Avengers” he was so OBVIOUSLY not in control. The blue eyes. The rote recitation. The signs of torture. The way his “master plan” involved being as obvious a target for the heroes as possible. This was not a villain, this was a victim desperately trying to mitigate the damage he was being forced to do.

Kylo Ren - Ben Solo - took me a while. I was pretty unsympathetic with him at first; I don’t care if your parents fought a lot when you were a kid, that’s no reason to turn into a Nazi. And then it was revealed exactly what Snoke did to him - he’d been hearing voices in his head SINCE UTERO. He could sense everyone’s thoughts and feelings and knew that they were afraid of him, but was too little to know why. He found out that he was the grandson of the second greatest evil thr galaxy had ever known - and that his family had lied to him about it. (See above mental breakdown at 17). And then his parents sent him away, his uncle tried to kill him, and in the ensuing fight everyone he knew turned on him. Where else could he go, but to the voice in his head promising safety?

Once again, this is not a villain. This is a victim, trapped in a nightmare, being used as a tool by a madman to cause harm, and suffering for it

Finally, the Darkling. I’ve written on this topic before, and so have so many other better skilled than I, so I’ll keep it simple. I don’t understand how we are supposed to view the leader of an oppressed minority, trying to prevent the genocide of his people, as a bad guy. Especially when he’s spent the past seven hundred years trying to do things the peaceful way, only to fail again and again and again. What choices did he really have? His actions were acts of war, and arguably caused the least loss of life possible.

So now, I see posts decrying women who ship villains. They say we’re supporting abuse. They say we’re taken in by a pretty face. They say that we’re just rebellious teenage girls, and when we grow up we’ll know better.

My experience was the opposite. As a teenager I was so obsessed with black and white morality, with being a good person, that I couldn’t see the nuances. I couldn’t see that often, the villains were right. I had no grace for those whose lives gave them few choices.

There are still villains I don’t like. Most, actually. Those who kill or hurt for fun. Those in it for their own power and gain. Those who take their pain and lash out against the universe with no cause. Bullies. I don’t like them. I don’t ship them. But I don’t judge people who do, because I don’t know what story they’re seeing. What traumatic event their identifying with. What injustice the villain is trying to correct that they have to deal with in their everyday lives.

We come to fiction for different reasons. Maybe we want a way to explore our pain. Maybe we’re looking for an escape from a dark world. Maybe we feel powerless, and want to live vicariously through someone powerful. Maybe we’ve suffered, and want to see a world where abusers are punished. Maybe we just want to look at pretty people.

All are equally valid. All should be respected. There is a place for all of us in this wonderful online world of fandom, and no one should EVER be belittled for what they like in fiction.

Because you know what? Fiction is first and foremost ENTERTAINMENT, and sometimes the villains have the best stories.

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grishaverse-chaos · 1 year

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oooh sab meta!! the colours of ravka are blue and gold, which are also the colours that alina initially wears as a sun summoner. however, the darkling insists that she wear HIS colour, which is black. even though he claims to want to serve ravka, and he claims he wants alina to do the same, he's actually acting in his own self-interest, and wants alina to serve HIM - the colours symbolise her allegiance on more than one level

#reason 368264737 why the darkling sucks #this might not have been intentional on leigh's part but i thought it added an extra dimension to the thing about alina's kefta #if blue + gold represents ravka as well as her position as the sun summoner!#shadow and bone meta #grishaverse #alina starkov #mayhem.txt #anti darkling #anti darklina #<- tagging for people who have those filtered #like obviously her wearing black is a way for him to have control over her -#but if blue + gold represents ravka then that makes the conflict more interesting #mayhem grishaverse originals

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eclipsxntice · 1 year

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Listen. I'm a Darklina and Malina and Malarklina (and malarkling yes i am shut up) shipper BUT BUT I'm re-watching S&B s1 and Aleksander and Alina's ship makes me so uncomfortable. The whole time all I could think of was: this man is responsible for Genya's YEARS of sexual abuse, manipulated Alina and countless others, used Zoya (who's younger by centuries) repeatedly and threw her away like trash when he didn't need her, said "the many uses of Durast" about David Kostyk which shows how others are objects to him because he could've framed it so much better like "the advantages of being a Durast." but despite his centuries of experience of evolved speech, he could've said it more eloquently. he didn't. guess why? Because he doesn't give a shit.

Like Alina said, Aleksander does not give a fuck about the impact of his actions so long as his goals are met and god I was mad and uncomfortable at this character I used to like so much.

Of course he's complex and has his redeemable qualities but that's why he makes an excellent antagonist but NOT the kind of person I'd wish on Alina.

Perhaps in an au where Alina is older (like by centuries ish) and weathered? Sure. I do love Darklina in that sense.

(Quick rec for the above:

Start a War by nymja {their tumblr is @gizkasparadise} on ao3 is an EXCELLENT piece of work. Darklina fans go read it).

But this Alina? No. Absolutely not.

It's clear that her and Mal are meant to be.

#personal #s&b #malina #darklina #s&b meta #shadow and bone netflix #malarkling #malarklina

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theweeklydiscourse · 8 months

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If Alina had actually passed the tests he'd given her, how do you think Aleksander would have told her the truth? When?

This is a good question! Addressing the whole truth of his identity, past and motives would have been inevitable considering his larger aspirations for him and Alina to become immortal companions, so what strategies would he employ to ensure that the big reveal goes as smoothly as possible?

First, we need to identify what exactly he’s going to tell her. I believe the whole truth is something that he’d tell her in two parts.

1. The truth about his motives with the shadow fold as well as the imminent coup d’état.

2. The truth about his immortality and him being the Black Heretic.

Both of these truths are alike in the sense that they pertain to the essence Aleksander’s character, but they differ in urgency. Informing Alina of the coup would be the most urgent given that the pressure to destroy the shadow fold increased greatly after Alina was discovered. In order for the plan to proceed, Alina should ideally know what Aleksander’s true motives are before they move forward with an enormous feat of Grisha power.

However, telling Alina the second truth would be akin to him putting his life in her hands. As such, his approach to telling her the truth would most likely require more time and caution. I can only imagine how that conversation might go for the two of them.

So what if Alina did pass the tests?

Even if she passed his tests initially, I imagine that Aleksander would still approach the issue with a high degree of caution. Their conversation on the journey to the Little Palace was a sort of placement test that let him subtly grade her, that is why I think he would conduct more tests incrementally to track her progress and milestones until she fully passed. But, if she had passed his initial test, I believe that Aleksander would have been far bolder with his hints and taken an approach that might allow Alina to draw her own conclusions.

For example, after Alina’s introduction to the King and Queen, Aleksander tests the waters by describing the King as a child. It’s an obvious slight at the King’s frivolous and incompetent ways that would’ve been understood by Alina after seeing his childish attitude firsthand. What if, instead of gasping and appearing visibly shocked, Alina responded in an affirmative manner? Perhaps agreeing with Aleksander or making a jab of her own? This might then lead into a conversation about the King’s failure as a ruler and allude to Aleksander’s future plans while also allowing Alina to ease into the subject.

We see the beginnings of an incremental approach to ease Alina into the world of Grisha. Getting her acquainted with her new home, giving her a friendly companion (Genya), and placing her among the rest of the Little Palace Grisha for daily events such as mealtimes and training. This stage is crucial to gaining Alina’s support and allegiance due to her upbringing as a non-Grisha as well as her low self esteem. Given that Alina’s introduction to the world of Grisha was both frightening and shocking, throwing her into the deep end right away would only cause her to flail and struggle, ultimately risking the entire movement in the process. So, she needs to spend a bit of time on the edge of the water, going from dipping her toes in to wading into the shallow end.

My estimate is that if all went according to plan (meaning that Baghra never meddled) then Aleksander would obtain the stag with Alina and take a number of months or even a year or two to train and acclimate to such a powerful amplifier. During this time, he would level with her about the true purpose of the fold and what her role would be in the movement for Grisha liberation.

R/relationshipadvice : How do I (500M), tell my potential girlfriend/life partner (20F) that I’m not actually 120 and that I’m actually an immortal revolutionary wizard who forever changed the geography and politics of our country?

As for the biggest truth of all, I often wonder how long it would take Aleksander to tell Alina the full truth about who he is. The idea of telling her most likely intimidates him into playing it safe and because of that I think it might take a number of years before he would be ready. However, Alina is not an idiot and has the power to observe things. The benefit of this is that it would allow her to gather information and draw her own conclusions as she gets closer to the truth. Aleksander is an understandably guarded person, but he will still leave breadcrumbs for Alina to follow and pick up on. But if I had to say, I’d think that he might wait for Alina to ask him outright (after a time) and then either bare his souls or let Alina’s questions reveal the truth throughout a long conversation.

#lb critical #shadow and bone #alina starkov #the darkling #s&b critical #aleksander morovoza #darklina #s&b netflix #darklina meta #grishaverse meta #grishaverse #anti leigh bardugo #shadow and bone season 2

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aleksanderscult · 4 months

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I loved your analysis! Can you analyse the (barely there, not enough) Darklina scenes from the KOS duology? I could not rationalize some of what was going on there.

First of all, I'm so sorry for taking that long to reply, anon! (Hasn't it been over two weeks since you send this or what??😭😭)

Second, thank you so much for your kind words! 💗💗

Third, you and I both friend 🤝🤝

'Cause honestly I didn't know what the fuck was happening in that interaction too 😭

I'll actually analyze the only Darklina scene we got in RoW. But if you want another one too, just send me an ask!

So! Let's dive in and analyze that hot mess, shall we?

(note: I had to go back and read this scene very carefully in order to understand what the actual fuck they were saying💀)

⚠️TW!: PTSD, trauma⚠️

The way he's so obedient with her even in this life 😭

If somebody else had ordered him to do that, he wouldn't obey. But Alina? Alina is a different story and this is the first time he hears her voice since his death in R&R.

'Any little victory'

Uhh....okay...??

You made him wipe his feet. I'm.... impressed??

(confusion levels 📉)

LMAO MY BOY WOKE UP AND CHOSE VIOLENCE

I always believed that the dynamic between Aleksander and Alina involves lots of teasing. But not in the fun sense. But in the sense of "I'm getting under your skin. My words to you sting".

And that's what the Darkling does here too. He's a prisoner. Their prisoner. So he tries to gain the upper hand by using his wits, his past with Alina and the latter's trauma against her to get even.

Pretty clever, huh?

See what I mean?

He tries to weaken her confidence and it's interesting that back in Keramzin he also tried to get even (and he did) by killing her mother figure.

Aleksander: "Wanna fuck with me? Wanna mess with me? How about that time when I burnt that orphanage and killed your "mother"?"

*Alina's sure confidence is gone and now the Darkling has the upper hand in her feelings*

OUTSTANDING MOVE 👌

Excuse me, Misha? Who the Hell gave you the permission to interrupt or talk at all??

Also, do you really expect from the Darkling to remember a little boy while he was too busy trying to rule a nation, win a war and persuade Alina to join him?

And if you also expect him to remember you from that time when Baghra went out to confront her son while you escorted her, then you're also wrong. 'Cause he was too busy being furious that his mother sided and helped the opposite side and too busy being distraught because he was watching her fall to her death.

You're not important, son.

Sit down.

LMAO THIS IS SO HILARIOUS

Misha you're still an infant. Please shut up.

I honestly liked him in the Grisha Trilogy (I found him a cutie) but now I want to slap him and everyone else in this duology except Aleksander

The Darkling has survived numerous murdering attempts against him. He was finally killed by Alina not because of some grand display of her powers but because the former was so heartbroken by Alina's fate (and his own because he would be alone) that he just gave up on his life. Basically he committed suicide.

Misha, you wouldn't be able to kill him even now that he's powerless and in chains. Probably you would stumble and fall in the effort or smth.

Uhh actually no, Mal.

Threating him only makes you sound like idiots, honestly.

Also, since when did Mal gained ✨wisdom✨?

Wasn't he the hot-tempered one in the trilogy who always got angry with the mere mention of the Darkling? And the one who wanted to kill him as well?

Alina, you know damn well what his name is.

Honestly, I think she didn't say it because she wanted to respect the fact that he trusted her to keep it.

And I agree that Yuri is a horrible name for him. Makes him seem like a fisherman 😭

Meanwhile Alina in S&B:

So either Bardugo kinda forgot these scenes or we're led to believe that these scenes weren't her being happy, but we thought she was happy.

(me casually ignoring that theory because I choose to believe only the things that MAKE SENSE)

The fact that Bardugo made Alina believe that she was unhappy when she was whole with her powers and surrounded by people like her but totally happy now that she has no powers (a part of her soul actually) and living with a man that slut-shamed her in a toxic, childhood place is umm... yeah. Not good.

So basically:

Aleksander: "You look different. You look like shit. What the fuck did they do to you? This is not you"

Alina: "No bro I'm happy now that I live in toxic conditions where the teachers mock me, Mal takes me out for a walk to forget my psychological traumas and I raise some Grisha children that will fade because they don't use their powers and some others that I probably am in no condition to raise. At least that's what the author said is happiness, bro."

Aleksander: "......."

Alina: "......"

The readers: "........."

ALEKSANDER IS HONESTLY ALL OF US FRR WITH HIS LINES

"In peace"

Yeah, having PTSD certainly is peaceful. And knowing that you abandoned your country and left its fate to chance certainly makes you sleep like a baby at night.

"We chose the life we wanted"

Alina, you didn't CHOOSE to lose your powers. And before that you didn't even know what you wanted to do with your life. It was a last minute decision for you.

"I fell pray to the same greed that drove you"

Girl, are we the only ones who did our homework??

In his POV in RoW he confirmed that he tampered with merzost in the past because he wanted to stop Ravka's wars. So as far as we know he never used power exclusively for himself.

"I paid the price for tampering with merzost"

Now hold a second. I thought that the reason Alina lost her powers is because Morozova wanted that said power to be shared by any otkazat'sya around. It wasn't that much of a punishment as much as a need for Morozova to share that power.

Unless it was..... both?

I just want a guy that will believe in me and my abilities the way Aleksander does with Alina, man 😭

He strongly believes that she could become a Queen even without her powers. And he's actually so right when he says to her that her wounds won't heal. Because no matter how much you try to convince yourself that you are alright. No matter how hard you try to persuade your mind that you're not broken, reality will always hit you. Some wounds never heal and Alina's certainly will not. She didn't lose a toy, she lost a part of her soul and witnessed many die. How the hell does she think she's suitable to raise children, when she herself is NOT okay psychologically?

"In the wake of your wars"

Excuse me. Why is the Fjerdan and Shu wars always the Darkling's fault??

"And maybe when our country is free, then that wound will close"

She sounds so brainwashed bye--

And just like I said, wounds like that never close unfortunately. It can only become more bearable with time. But not forgetable.

Ah yes. Bardugo makes us watch how cute their relationship is.

Am I supposed to take off my camera and snap pictures of them whispering with tears in my eyes: "They look so adorable"?

'Cause I won't.

The way Bardugo has made Mal unfazed by the Darkling's comments. A thing that completely contrasts his nature in the Grisha trilogy.

He also made him have "sassy" lines because we've got to like him somehow, right? 🤗

Still hate him

Basically, dear anon, the author has made Mal more "likeable", immune to the Darkling's insults, patient and witty in order for us to change our mind about him and finally like him.

(mission failed btw)

He is literally nothing like his trilogy counterpart and, if possible, she made him more annoying.

(how the hell she managed to do that, I don't know)

I just feel sorry for Aleksander who has to deal with all these jerks. If I were there, I would have helped him kill them and bury their bodies.

Because you let your heart and feelings get the better of you, Aleksander. Because you proved to be the most human of all these characters here. You let her come close. And that's what killed you.

(also, shut up Misha)

Alina, you could have said "no" to that invitation. So stop acting like they dragged you from the hair here.

"Do you think you could manage it?"

Do you, Alina? 'Cause really, what did YOU do to make the lives of Grisha better? At least he built a palace for them.

"It's not like you didn't get a fair try before. Hundreds of tries"

Yeah, and half of them failed because you got in the way. You refused to listen to him and, even if you didn't like the way he dealt with the persecution, you chose to run away (again) instead of deciding to stay and do better.

SHE DID NOT JUST SAY THAT ZOYA AND NIKOLAI COULD DO BETTER LMAO 😭😭

Zoya, the very fact that he mentioned you should feel like a badge of honor.

And yet Ravka is in its worst condition ever.

Sorry Alina but I don't see shit from them.

The fact that the Darkling keeps mentioning that he's eternal is to remind them that he has seen everything and done everything. He has more experience than they will ever have. Not to gloat about it. And yet Alina takes it as the latter.

And it's funny that Alina turns him down for the job saying he has no powers when Alina herself suffers from the same condition 😀

Finally someone with self-reflection.

THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING!!

PREACH!! PREACH!! 👏👏

When you have the "villain" exposing the true problem in the story, the flaws and failures while having the heroes screaming "EVERYTHING IS FINE. YOU'RE WRONG!" then you know that something is wrong.

How the Hell are they gonna provide eternal peace in Ravka and to the Grisha when:

They have no experience

They are too busy criticizing the villain instead of looking at their own flaws

They doubt themselves

(you can add to the list, guys)

And he's not shaken because he's talking with a Saint, Zoya. He's shaken because he's talking to Alina. She always had a way in getting under his skin. He said it.

"Fine. Make me your villain" fits here 'cause he never perceived himself as the bad guy but he knew that this is what others thought of him.

I think it still stung to him to know that others saw his every action in a negative light but he still kept going. And sometimes he even used it (at the end of R&R).

Alina still wants to believe that there's something redeemable inside him. Her POVs were always the "kindest" in the way they painted the Darkling.

MISHA COULD YOU PLEASE SHUT IT

What about his mother, huh??

Who, despite the abuse he suffered from her, he still cared about??

Alina?? Oh boy, he was in love with her, obsessed and gave her so many chances. Something that he almost never does unless he's desperate.

So PRETTY PLEASE STOP TALKING

Meanwhile the Darkling in R&R, chapter 11:

"I have regretted many of the things I’ve had to do in this war."

So either Bardugo forgot that or Alina did or Aleksander changed his mind.

Or (my theory) Bardugo changed his perception in order for us to feel less sympathetic towards him.

Nevertheless, at least he has a spine and knows where he stands.

And Alina wanted the Darkling to say it not for him but for her. So she can feel okay. Unless Zoya is talking bullshit.

YES ALEKSANDER WHY DIDN'T YOU LIE SO OUR HEROINES COULD FEEL BETTER ABOUT THEMSELVES???!!

HOW DARE YOU?? 😠😠

He tries so hard to persuade her that the reality she lives in will not pay off anything. First off, this is not who she is or what she was meant to become and second, why does she teaches children stories that are lies? Feeding them false hope, repeating a circle that others had also been doing.

"Do you *really* believe..."

He wants to make sure that she stands by that. He just can't believe that this is her opinion. Her choice.

He just wants her to shine people!! 😭😍

"Those stories tell us the only people who matter are Kings and Queens. They're wrong"

Now tell me, Alina, which stories do YOU tell them? What do you teach them? That the world is as rosy as the orphanage they live in, where they only eat sugar and play the piano? Do you imagine what kind of reality check will those children get once they live in the real world?

And here, ladies and gentlemen, we see the Darkling having reached his limits and saying "Fuck this shit I'm out"

Congratulations, Aleksander! You survived that meeting with these buffoons and their groundless arguments!! 👏👏

Here, have this! 🏅

He saw his chance (Alina holding Mal's hand) and seized it. But I think he really meant all those questions he asked to Alina.

So, dear anon, what we have here is the villain making his effort (again) to be heard and understood. He tries to make them see his own point of view: Ravka is in serious danger and Zoya and Nikolai are in no position to protect it. He, on the other hand, can since he has more experience and balls to deal with these issues. The Darkling is no pussy. He truly makes hard decisions when he must, something that essentially all rulers must do when the situation calls for it.

But! We have the good guys silencing him and threating him (even having a little child to do the last one) in order for the reader to understand what he has left in his wake. How much pain he has caused.

Mal has gotten ✨magically✨ wiser and calmer and has actual wits to repel the Darkling's insults in order for us to get to like Mal and see how much he has changed.

Alina sounds like a brainwashed woman who is convinced that her lifestyle is great! That wanting something more (idk. a throne and changing the world maybe) is sinful and unfitting of her.

Aleksander is the only one who thinks otherwise for her, though. Thank God, I mean!

He sought Alina out both to reclaim his powers and because he just wanted to see her.

Personally, in this scene only the Darkling makes sense. The others either want to feel good about themselves by threating him or want to convince him that "Hey, we're the good ones here. We know what we're doing, okay?" and his own ways are shit.

Dear anon, if you have any other questions or want me to analyze any other Darklina scene from this book or duology that I didn't include, then just say so!

And please any others who want to add something about this scene, feel free to criticise in the comments! 💛💛

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eggsaladstain · 1 year

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the darkling said i have loved and lost and i can bear it no longer, i will close my heart to anyone who is not like me, love is weakness, love is heartache, the joy of loving them is not worth the pain of losing them and i would spare her from this pain even if she hates me for it

and alina said i have loved him and i will lose him but not today, i have sacrificed everything but i will not sacrifice him, not again, i will bring him back to me no matter the cost, even if i have to let him go in the end

and mal said i have loved her my whole life but i don’t know who i am without her, i want a life of my own even if it means i have to leave her, but i will go trusting that i will be able to find my way back to her as i always have

and genya said i have loved him and i do not regret saving him but it came at a terrible cost, i have wandered underground in the dark with only the sound of his heartbeat guiding the way, i have survived unimaginable horrors and i am strong enough to survive losing him too

and david said i have loved her without knowing how to show it but i would like to try, i know metal and she is stronger than steel and more beautiful than rubies or emeralds, i have never known anyone braver and i regret leaving her side before, but i will do it just once more if it means i can save her

and wylan said i have loved him even knowing it might never be anything more, i left him the first time but i’m not leaving now, i want to hear about his day and i want to tell him about mine

and jesper said i have loved him all while hiding a part of myself but i will hide no longer, i do not know where this journey will lead us but i would like to find out, i have spent my life gambling and i will take a gamble on this

and nina said i have loved him even as he hates me, i have condemned him to save him and i will not rest until i am able to free him

and matthias said i have loved her despite a lifetime at war against her people, i should have known better than to trust her but i let myself anyway, she betrayed me and i should hate her but it’s not just hatred that i feel when i dream of her in the night

and inej said i have loved him as his shadow, close enough to be near but never touching, i want more for us and i will not settle for less, i will have him completely or not at all and i will not wait, i will live my own life with the freedom he gave me and we will meet again one day when i choose to return

and kaz said i have loved her when i could not love myself, i do not believe in saints but i believe in her, i have lost my brother and i would do anything to make sure she doesn’t have to suffer the same, i have given everything so she could have her freedom and i would rather watch her walk away than ever hold her back, i will wait for her and i will miss her every moment she’s not beside me, but i will try to make myself a better man by the time she returns

and sankta neyar said i have loved and lost and i will gladly do it again, i once closed my heart but no longer, i will endure the pain of losing my husband by cherishing the memories of the life we shared, may you all find a love that brings you joy that will outlive the pain, my love is my strength and my universe, i have lived for hundreds of years and what i have learned is this: there is only love, it is the only thing that matters and it is enough

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