#because even iroh says at some point that “[azula] is crazy & needs to go down” like... sir that is your niece | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

blackautmedia · 2 months

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For any fandom of your choice: 7.what character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them?

13.worst blorboficiation

16you can't understand why so many people like this thing (characterization, trope, headcanon, etc)

Oooh, these are good ones!

what character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them?

Purah from Legend of Zelda, 100%. "Hate" is a strong word, so more I'm very strongly indifferent to her. Really, I just get weirded out by the near constant hypersexualization with her, especially coming off of BotW making her a small child. Between her and Riju, it's really uncomfortable.

worst blorboficiation

Uncle Iroh. I'm tired of any old animated character of being compared to him for showing kids any degree of decency. Setting aside him being a war criminal and servant of imperial powers for years himself, there's the way they decide who is and isn't deserving of sympathy in who gets written off as "crazy."

I've seen some people point out how the comics try to address this with how he treats Azula, but I've never read them and can't comment on them.

We have no shortage of old animated dudes being loving, supportive people to kids without the same baggage.

Avatar is another one of those shows that falls into "has a lot of great things going for it, but is mired by an unwillingness to have a genuine understanding and dialogue about Orientalism and Imperialism."

you can't understand why so many people like this thing (characterization, trope, headcanon, etc)

I've been watching a lot of people play Persona 3 Reload lately and I don't know if this is really a "trope" per se but I feel people can be really insistent on stories constantly comforting and kissing up to the player character in games?

The number of people who frame this scene as Yukari "Trauma dumping" instead of "Yukari sharing this information because she was uncomfortable with how you were lied to, spied on, and had your personal information shared with others without your consent" comes to mind.

There are a lot of moments where characters are extremely emotional and blow up at you because they're going through a lot and they usually even apologize to you once they calm down.

There's a point where one of your teammates snaps at you saying "you think you know me!?" Mind you, this is minutes after they watched a video of their father being violently killed and they even explicitly apologize and remark on how overwhelmed and scared they feel.

And to me it's just kind of disheartening how I've seen four or five different instances now of people stopping the moment someone snaps at them in the heat of the moment in a game for them to go on a long tangent about how they hate this character now that they had a moment of being emotional.

I don't think it necessarily translates to how people treat their actual friends, but at the same time it's still a real problem for them when someone creates even the slightest bit of discomfort to me. Like do we not ever have friends that have breakdowns or rough moments or even moments of exhaustion where you can let them just do that without labeling them trauma dumpers or whatever?

I've had former friends who would actually do these kinds of things, so I'm always gonna side-eye it when I see it.

I'm not saying to put up with abuse from people, but I also find that stories that brush at even the slightest bit of emotional discomfort get met with so much pushback.

Persona games in general already written with a major power fantasy element in mind, so it's not like the game is ever short on imagining the player character as the bestest, most popular, most athletic, most amazing person ever.

Even several of reload's new scenes feel like they're trying to almost do damage control for characters at times, as if we needed an additional moment to help better "soften" the player to their actions as if what they did was so evil. It also gets doubly weird when you factor in gender and how these things get ten times worse when women are labeled horrible people for acting emotional in emotionally charged situations but nobody has that same heat for men doing the same thing.

Like I remember back when Skyward Sword was new how many people were so heated at Impa for her berating you…once? The game even gives you a moment to rub it back in her face when she's been grounded, but the trope of games constantly need to make sure nobody is ever mean to the player and if they are they're constantly berated by the story for it, much like Revali.

#tears of the kingdom #ask #persona 3 reload #breath of the wild #seriously why did they do revali and purah so dirty #I always welcome lets plays of P3 that aren't just the player being misogynistic to the cast

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kidnappedbycartoons · 2 years

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Azula deserved better.

You expect me to believe that Iroh, who is a literal war criminal and didn't realize the error of the Fire Nation until the war killed his son, can change, but fourteen-year-old Azula can't? She was failed by the adults around her. She didn't have an Iroh or Usra to guide her. No, she had Ozai. And look at Ozai!

I mean, look at her relationship with Usra. I didn't read the comics yet, but in the show, it's clear that there is some tension between the two. Anytime we saw Usra and Azula interact in the show, it was always Usra telling Azula not to do something or wondering what's wrong with her. And in the beach episode, Azula says that she can talk about how her mother loved Zuko more than her and thought she was a monster. You expect me to believe that Azula wasn't jealous of the attention and love Zuko got from Usra?

Also, I don't think Usra told Azula that she was a monster, but you know who I think put that in Azula's head? Ozai. She wasn't getting that much love and attention from Usra, so she sought it out in her other parent. She wanted his attention and the best way to get that was to show off the traits that Ozai favors. He's someone who leads with fear, he lacks empathy, he is ruthless, and so Azula became like that to stay in his good graces. Ozai probably told her that her mother thought she was a monster.

Also, Azula is clearly capable of care and is also lonely. We see this during the beach episode. Yeah, she is manipulative and toxic towards Ty Lee and Mai, but does no one notice that when Ty Lee is upset, Azula feels bad for her. We see this when Azula almost makes Ty Lee cry at the party and she quickly apologizes. And we see it again when they're at the beach and Ty Lee is talking about her home life and why she joined the circus. When she's not looking, Azula is looking at her with a face of concern but when Ty Lee looks back at her, Azula fixes her face so that there's no hint of emotion on her face. She does care for her friends, but she doesn't know how to because the only example she has to go off of is Ozai.

And during the beach episode, we see that she feels jealous because while Ty Lee can get all the boys to come to her yard, Azula cannot and finds it hard to talk to them. After taking Ty Lee's advice and managing to kiss a boy, she is talking about world domination and being the most powerful couple in the world, which scares him off. She doesn't know how to interact with someone if it doesn't have to do with the war and winning. And who is also obsessed with all of this? Ozai.

She also cares for Zuko. Now, is there a clear power imbalance between the two and has Azula been toxic towards him? Yes. But she does care a bit. When she lied and told Ozai that Zuko killed the avatar, she didn't even know that there was a possibility that Aang lived. She didn't find out UNTIL Zuko gave her that obvious lie. Up till that point, she was just helping him out with his standing in the Fire Nation. But when she found out that there was a possibility, it worked in her favor. And during the beach episode, she seeks Zuko out herself. She doesn't tease him that much, no. She comes to get him and bring him back to the group. And if she wanted to be the Fire Lord so bad, why would she bring him back? She didn't bring him back as a traitor like she was going to in the start of book two. No, she brought him back and helped to restore his honor. How would that help her? It doesn't.

All I'm saying is, if Iroh can change, why can't Azula change? If Zuko can change, why can't she? She didn't have an Iroh or Usra like Zuko did. She had Ozai. And look at how Ozai is. Iroh calling her crazy and saying she needs to be put down leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Azula deserved better. She could've had a redemption arc.

#atla #atla azula #azula deserved better #avatar: the last airbender

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frenchbotanicalposter · 2 years

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Tldr: I think Azula deserves help, but she's also a bitch.

Don't get me wrong, I think Azula's arc IS sad, and she deserves pity for what happened to her.

But like I don't think all of her tendencies are a product of abuse.

Azula KNOWS what she is doing is wrong, and we can see it displayed through their childhood memories. Every time she does something mean, there's no adults around. And when there is, she acts all innocent like nothing happened. Like with burning the doll? She knows it's bad, but has fun doing it, just look at the smile on her face. When she tells Zuko about Azulon going to kill him, she acts all innocent when Ursa walks into the room. But when she's telling Zuko? She's happy.

At the Agni Kai, she is smiling. Right along with Zhao looking like Zuko deserves it. Getting joy from it.

"Azula always lies." You think that came from one or two conversations? Zuko had probably been putting up with her lies and manipulation every time their parents weren't around.

"My own mother thought I was a monster. She was right though, but it still hurt." (Can't remember the exact line but it's basically that.) She HERSELF recognized that there is something fundamentally different between her and Zuko. She likes hurting people, and not just those outside of her loved ones. We see another good example with Ty Lee and the circus.

Now I'm also NOT saying that Ursa didn't love Azula. I bet you she did So Much, and I bet she always attempted to help her because she loved her, and didn't want Azula to end up like Ozai. But every time she got onto Azula for the behavior, it felt like an attack on who she is.

Even when she's hallucinating Ursa, Ursa says that she loves her. And I don't think Azula didn't know that. I don't think Ursa was afraid OF Azula, but was afraid FOR her. It's a big difference.

I don't think Ursa loved her less than she did Zuko. In the flashbacks, all we see is Zuko's relationship with their mom for the most part, because that's who we're meant to connect with and understand more. To see why he may not be as bad as he seems. Because in reality, the story IS about him more than it is about her.

Side note, some people think Iroh didn't love her as much as he did Zuko, and I guess that could be true in some ways, but I think he still loves her. "'She's crazy and she needs to go down.' Iroh obv doesn't love her because he wants to take her down." Yeah but like, haven't you ever loved a person, despite knowing that they're bad for you?

Azula could have killed Iroh. He could have died from infection. I think for him, that's the turning point in which he knows that Azula needed to be taken out of power, because she WILL kill anyone who stands in her way. He can't put her on the throne because she thinks the same way Ozai does.

And I don't care how smart Azula is, as a child, you can't fully comprehend all of the emotions and factors that go into a situation. She was fourteen and still couldn't understand why Mai and Ty Lee would turn against her. Sure, these behaviors were encouraged by Ozai after Ursa left, but as a teenager I thought I was always right, but now as a twenty three year old I look back and see how ignorant I was to things.

She didn't understand why Ozai didn't love her. If she was as smart as she thought she was, she would have figured that out already. But she's a CHILD who just wanted someone to love her. And after Ursa was removed from the picture? All that left was Ozai.

I bet she also didn't understand why her mom always got onto her for her bad behavior. Like I said earlier, she probably felt like it was an attack on who she was and hated her mom for that, not understanding that Ursa was afraid of Ozai, and dreaded the thought of her little girl ending up like him.

Zuko looks like Ozai, but is more like their mom. Azula looks like Ursa but acts more like their father. I bet as soon as Ursa saw what was happening, she tried her damnedest to protect Azula from him.

So yeah, do I think that she's brutal, manipulative, and likes hurting the people around her? Absolutely. Do I still think she deserves help? 100%. She's a child and deserves the chance to learn and grow and try to be a better person.

#atla #azula #avatar the last airbender #listen #i know if this blows up people are gonna be going for my throat #but also i think people need to hear it

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hello-nichya-here · 2 years

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Excluding the comics, did Zuko hurt Azula more than she ever hurt him overall? Coz I've been hearing that argument all over the place a lot lately...

Before I can even begin to explain my point of view on that, we need to take a look at how their dynamic works (and how it changed over the years)

In “Ember Island Players” Zuko says their family was happy - a long, long, LONG time ago. We don’t know how exactly Zuko and Azula acted towards each other, but looking just at that line we could maybe assume they behaved more like normal siblings.

In “Zuko Alone”, that family is already miserable 90% of the time and no one was even disfigured yet. Azula is the typical bratty little sister, and while she says some fucked up shit, she doesn’t really do anything that “evil” towards him - her worst offense would be sounding way too happy while telling Zuko their dad is going to kill him, but she did warn him. Even though she’s not really doing much bad shit to him, she’s not really being nice either, except for a ONE SECOND scene of the two of them playing with each other in the garden (we don’t know who asked who to play, or if their mother told them to play together) and that scene of their mother reading them the letter Iroh sent. Zuko deliberately avoids his sister and even though her teasing is usually pretty mild, he quite clearly takes it all very seriously and personally because their father favors Azula, but ignores him. However, Zuko does act a like a proper older brother once or twice (and basically does Ursa’s job of communicating things to the literal 8-year-old better than she did) by saying things like “How would you feel if cousin Lu Ten wanted dad to die?” or “He’s probably just sad that his only son is gone. Forever” when Azula is being insensitive about the idea/reality of their relatives dying.

In “The Storm” the show has a flashback with Azula seemingly enjoying seeing her Ozai burning Zuko’s face. We don’t really know if that reaction was genuine, a result of fear of the consequences if she didn’t react positively to it, or both, but it’s pretty fair to assume that if Zuko somehow found about that reaction, he’d probably be very hurt - but again, we don’t even know if he is aware this happened. What we DO know is that the trauma of that Agni Kai and of his three years of banishment made Zuko very bitter, angry and frustrated, to the point that he is lashing out at everyone (including Iroh, who we know he cares for) for the smallest of things, and he very clearly resents Azula for being their father’s favorite - to the point that he is angry at her for being “perfect”, instead of being pissed off at his father for his unfair standards (which makes sense considering Ozai basically brainwashed him into believing all of his misery is Azula’s fault)

On “Avatar State” Zuko instantly reacts negatively the second he sees his sister. Since she’s there on a mission to capture him, they spent pretty much the entire season being openly hostile to each other. The ONE TIME Zuko says something that might, maybe, perhaps indicate that, on some level, he believes it isn’t right for them to be at each other’s throats since they’re family is when he goes “Uncle, I know what you’re going to say: she’s my sister, and I should try to get along with her” implying someone tried to give him some sense of obligation to his sister (likely Ursa, considering she did agree with Azula’s “We’re brother and sister, we should spend time together”). Iroh then responds not with a understandable warning for Zuko to be careful since the idea of family quite clearly isn’t stopping Azula from trying to capture them, but instead with the infamous and terrible “No. She’s crazy and needs to go down.” Zuko doesn’t argue at all.

In “Crossroads of Destinity” however, Azula genuinely offers Zuko the chance to go home, he only joins the fight when Aang and Katara are cornering her, and she even gives him some emotional support after the battle is won. Unfortunately, in “The Awakening”, because Zuko doesn’t trust her for many reasons (some less valid than others) he lies to her about there being no chance of the Avatar having survived. Azula recognizes that as a lie, feels threatened, and tells Ozai Zuko was the one to kill Aang, so he will be the one who will be punished if he really is alive.

However, during the rest of his short return to the Fire Nation, Azula is being much, much nicer to her brother than she ever did before, warning him to be careful if he’s going to visit Iroh, asking the guys at the beach if they’re not going to invite both her and Zuko to their party, not letting him sulk on his misery at their old beach house, offering emotional support in the form of arson, answering his question about Sozin’s death, and pointing out to him that OF COURSE he’s welcomed at the war meeting - he’s the freaking prince. She still crosses a few lines every now and again and can still be a little bratty, but mostly she seems to have matured quite a lot, and to have no ill will towards him despite their recent conflict prior to Ba Sing Se. Zuko on the other hand, quite clearly still resents her and doesn’t trust her after all that happened, and his behavior is now the reverse of what it was like in “Zuko Alone” - he doesn’t really go out of his way to avoid her anymore, but never really tries to initiate any interaction with her, and he surely doesn’t offer any guidance, however limited.

On “The Day Of Black Sun” Zuko leaves the Fire Nation without so much as leaving a letter to Azula, and he tells Ozai that she was the one who failed to kill Aang - he does it for the sake of honesty, but the result still is that he carelessly told Ozai something that could make him furious at Azula simply because he didn’t understand that there’s a difference between being his favorite and being safe from his wrath. Since they’re on opposing sides again, they go back to constant fighting. In “The Southern Raiders” Azula attacks Zuko with the explicit intent to kill him, yet when he sees her falling “to her death” he looks a bit conflicted... only to then have a 100% negative reaction when she saves herself. In the finale, while the idea was not his, but Iroh’s, Zuko still does not hesitate for a second once given the mission to kill his sister, and while he shows no mercy, the music makes it all sound like a tragedy. The message is pretty clear: while he might not personally want any harm to come to Azula, Zuko sees her as a problem that needs to be solved - all that changes is what kind of problem she is (his personal rival or yet another soldier of the enemy). He also dismisses Azula when she says that she is sorry things have to end that way (she’s also in “battle mode” so to speak, and he is an obstacle to be dealt with), and she was quite clearly being sarcastic... but that line sounds a lot more genuine than even she had probably meant it to be when you consider the context of it all.

It basically comes down to what would be worse for you personally: someone who will (intentionally) do both good and bad things for you, which can be confusing, disappointing, hurtful, and maybe even make you a little paranoid/overly-defensive, or someone who isn’t really putting in any effort, and thus giving you no expectations, but also being frustrating if YOU are putting in effort in bonding with them, and who will also make dumb (but genuine) mistakes due to being too absorbed in their own problems and not understanding that said mistakes also affect you (which leads to them repeating said mistakes, which can be quite infuriating).

This dynamic is part of why I want Zuko to be the one to help Azula. He was too focused on his own issues to notice that his sister was begging for help AND genuinely trying to connect with him, so now that his life is more stable and he has undeniable proof that Azula’s life was NOT the easy, perfect life their father made him believe she had, it is the perfect time for him to open his eyes and try to correct his mistakes - but now Azula is in a position where she doesn’t trust anybody, especially not the older brother who left her, defeated her, and took her crown after she legitimately tried to help him. It’d lead to conflict, growth, and happiness after the storm is over and they manage to make things work at last, and I fucking live for that kind of story.

#asks #fire siblings #fire siblings meta #azula meta #zuko meta

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zuko-always-lies · 3 years

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So, question, because I see people saying it often that Iroh has the right to feel animosity towards Azula because she made fun of/derided Lu Ten's death (or something like that), but does she actually do that in that scene? Or does she express disdain for Iroh's reaction, which considering the culture could easily be interpreted as Iroh being the one to make light of it? (Pretty sure there's at least one instance in _Romance of the Three Kingdoms_ where one character absolutely annihilates an opposing force because his brother/father/friend dies, if we want a real-world example of the mentality. Or, like, all of _The Hagakure_.)

Does Azula call Lu Ten a coward for dying? Or does she say that Iroh is for not "getting justice" or revenge for his son's death? For not finishing the task and abandoning the cause Lu Ten died for?

Because one of these means Iroh's dislike could be justified (nevermind the fact that he wasn't present for this conversation, so if he knew about it, he would have only heard about it from Zuko). But the other is an angry/disappointed/disgusted child calling an adult out.

Good question! I think I should start by talking about what Zuko and Azula actually say about Iroh.

"The Western Air Temple"(featuring 13 year old Zuko!):

Iroh: (Iroh looks on, concerned) Prince Zuko, it's only been a week since your banishment. (Cut to a far back view shot of the 2) You should take some time to heal and rest. Zuko: (turns around and raises his voice) What else would I expect to hear from the laziest man in the Fire Nation? (Cut to a close up of Iroh's slightly appalled face as he looks down and sighs) The only way (Cut back to a frontal shot of uncle and nephew) to regain my honor is to find the Avatar. So I will.

"The Headband":

Zuko: (standing at the bars) You brought this on yourself, you know. We could have returned together. You could have been a hero! (Iroh turns a shade further away from Zuko.) You have no right to judge me Uncle. I did what I had to do in Ba Sing Se, and you're a fool for not joining me. (Iroh is silent.) You're not gonna say anything? (Enraged, he kicks a stool and bends a blast of fire at the wall.) Argh! You're a crazy old man! You're crazy, and if you weren't in jail, you'd be sleeping in a gutter!

Zuko says some pretty negative things about Iroh, right to Iroh's face!

Now, what negative things does 14 year old Azula say about Iroh? Surprisingly little, even though she clearly doesn't like him. She implicitly calls him a traitor a couple times(during times when he is, in fact, a traitor by all reasonable definitions), but never really explicitly does so. Beyond that, there's very little. This is the only thing I can think of:

Azula: So...I hear you've been to visit your Uncle Fatso in the prison tower. Zuko: (standing, incensed) That guard told you.

Which is actually way less harsh than what Zuko says about Iroh! If anything, Azula's behavior in the present suggests that she only rarely criticized, much less mocked Iroh's behavior to his face when she was younger.

Now let's turn to the meat of your question, "Zuko Alone." There are two scenes in that episode where Azula criticizes Iroh. The first comes before Lu Ten's death:

Ursa: "And for Azula, a new friend. She wears the latest fashion for Earth Kingdom girls." (As Ursa speaks, Azula picks up a doll wearing Earth Kingdom green. The Princess makes a face of disgust.) Azula: If Uncle doesn't make it back from war, then dad would be next in line to be Fire Lord, wouldn't he? (In the background, Zuko runs around practicing with his new dagger.) Ursa: (disappointed) Azula, we don't speak that way. It would be awful if Uncle Iroh didn't return. And besides, Fire Lord Azulon is a picture of health. Zuko: How would you like it if cousin Lu Ten wanted dad to die? Azula: I still think our dad would make a much better Fire Lord than (looking at the doll with disdain) his royal tea loving kookiness. (She holds out the doll and makes its head burst into flame. The screen flashes white and the flashback ends.

There are several things which seem to be driving Azula's actions here. The first is a reaction to the massive favoritism Iroh just showed toward Zuko. The second is a belief, no doubt inspired by Ozai's poisonous statements about his brother, that Ozai, who Azula idolizes, would make a better Firelord than Iroh. Finally, Azula is a confused child who is asking inappropriate questions because she's too young to understand proper boundaries. Nothing she says here is actually that serious, and I would expect a responsible adult(i.e. not Ursa) to either shrug it off, or to carefully reason with Azula in order to explain why what she is saying is problematic.

Now we turn to the other main scene, the one right after Lu Ten's death, and the one you probably actually wanted me to talk about:

Azula: (getting up and walking over to him) By the way, Uncle's coming home. Zuko: Does that mean we won the war? Azula: No. It mean's Uncle's a quitter and a loser. Zuko: What are you talking about? Uncle's not a quitter. Azula: Oh yes, he is. He found out his son died and he just fell apart. (leaning against a nearby pillar) A real general would stay and burn Ba Sing Se to the ground, not lose the battle and come home crying. Zuko: (angry) How do you know what he should do? (looking down, sadly) He's probably just sad his only kid is gone... forever.

You might note that, again, Azula doesn't say anything negative about Lu Ten. You've already noted that Iroh is thousands of miles away at the moment, so having him be "justified" in his hatred of Azula by a conversation he didn't hear doesn't make sense.

Azula is also very angry in this scene, quite possibly the angriest we ever see her at any point. That does suggest that she's taking what's happened, either Lu Ten's death or the abandonment of the siege, very personally. I don't know enough to comment specifically on this, but you are right in that there might be cultural background which specifically proscribes the achievement of vengeance as being of particular importance, and Azula is thus outraged that Iroh failed to fulfill his duty to his son.

But that not at the core of Azula's critique here. What Azula is attacking Iroh for is that he responded to a personal loss by abandoning his duty in the heat of battle, and she is 100% right on this, not only by the standards of Fire Nation cultural but also by the standards of modern western culture. Fun fact: Abraham Lincoln, Jefferson Davis, and Robert E. Lee(screw the latter two, but that's another story) all suffered the loss of children they dearly loved in the middle of the American Civil War, yet none of them abandoned their duty. Archibald Roosevelt(another problematic figure) had two brothers die in WWII, yet he continued fighting on the front line. John W. Geary literally had his son die in his arms in the middle of battle, yet he continued commanding his unit well enough to prevail. Hell, we can even turn to Joseph Stalin here, to some extent.

Again, the core of what Azula says here is absolutely correct. Iroh is a "quitter" because he responded to Lu Ten's death by falling apart and abandoning the siege when it seemed on the brink of success, rather than continue the operation until victory. I don't think we need to go further than that to establish that Azula is entirely justified calling Iroh out here. And again, she doesn't criticize or mock Lu Ten at all, instead only attacking Iroh's reaction to Lu Ten's death.

#Azula #Iroh #Ultranos #ask #anti-iroh #Zuko #Zuko Alone #Ursa

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fire-lady-ilah · 3 years

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I would be fascinated in any ideas you had about how the hunt for Aang would go with 'good parent Ozai' AU!

Ask and ye shall receive! (@tiktokonaclock, here’s that part two you asked about). This continues from where I left off in part 1.

At first, Ozai says no. He has good reason to do so, Zuko is the Crown Prince, should he and Azula die then he will be heirless— he doesn’t know if Ursa would be able to bear another child, nor does he wish for another. In a less logical way, his mind protests because that is his son. Sixteen, yes, but still very much a child. That isn’t even the age of conscription.

He knows that the Avatar is a child, Commander Zhao’s report said that he appeared to be twelve, travelling with two other children that were closer to Azula’s age. He knows that his children make a formidable pair, he has no doubt that, together, they could be able to take on entire battalions of soldiers.

They are his children and they are Ursa’s children. How could he just let them go out to face an enemy such as the Avatar?

Zuko has Ozai’s charisma and awkwardness (as they come together, though few remember the way the Fire Lord used to stumble over his words as a teenager). Zuko looks so much like his father that sometimes older servants even refer to him by his name. But Zuko is equal parts his mother. He has his mother’s kinder nature, and he has her drive. Ursa’s persistence is one of the only reasons the Fire Nation is flourishing as it is now. Ozai knows that it had been suffering near the end of his father’s rule, he knows that he is an amazing military leader, just as he knows that it is better to leave his wife in charge of the majority of domestic policies.

It is that persistence combined with Azula’s carefully crafted wording that she also got from her mother that makes both Ozai and Ursa cave and give permission for their children to hunt the Avatar. Sometimes, Ozai wonders if his life would be easier if he didn’t love his family so much.

Zuko and Azula leave the Fire Nation together. Zuko is sixteen and looks the very image of a Crown Prince, even if a few hairs escape his top knot and fall across his face. Azula is fourteen and looks every bit the Princess she is. A single hair escapes it’s place and she leaves it be. She would not dare call attention to imperfections, just as Ozai himself wouldn’t. He is full of pride as he watches his children board the ship (the second newest design, as advanced as possible while having already been tested. He would not let untested technology take his children from him permanently). Captain Jee stands on the deck, greeting them. Apparently he had been demoted from his position at some point for assaulting an Admiral.

(He remembers the day he discovered the Captain’s existence well. Zuko had been eleven and helping him look over military documentation that had been sent to him to approve. One of such documents had been Jee’s demotion to lieutenant.

“I remember him. He was Lu Ten’s friend.” He heard his son mumble as he touched the included portrait of Jee. Closer examination showed that it had been drawn by his nephew himself. His son had loved his cousin, and he was not against doing things to make him happy. If Jee was loyal to Lu Ten, it only meant he would be more likely to be loyal to Zuko.

“I will have him transferred to the palace guard.”)

He proved to be honourable in the guard and had quickly been promoted back to captain after Ozai heard the true reasoning of the assault through Zuko’s horrified voice. He himself cared little for the affairs of military officers, but if it made his son happy to sign the papers for the Admiral’s dishonourable discharge and imprisonment, so be it.

That action had only solidified Jee’s loyalty to his son (and by extension, his daughter).

Now, I’m conflicted on whether or not Iroh would go with them. I’m leaning toward yes. Neither of them have been hurt by their father, but Zuko is still the most naturally kindhearted person in the royal family and he is destined to be Fire Lord. Azula has more empathy than she does in canon (although that’s not saying much), I doubt Iroh would comment that she’s “crazy and needs to go down”. After all, Ozai loves both his children here. That means that he doesn’t intentionally harm their mental health, nor does he encourage competition between them. They both want to make both their parents proud. If nothing else, Iroh would go with them so that he could stop them.

Thus, shortly after the Crown Prince and Princess of the Fire Nation step onto the ship, the Dragon of the West follows. It is filled with the best of the Fire Nation to seek the only bender of all four elements.

A stark contrast to canon, no?

The hunt progresses somewhat like in canon, though not. Lo and Li instruct further Zuko and Azula in lightning bending.

(“Only a hair out of place, Princess Azula.”

“That means I shall achieve perfection soon.”)

Iroh takes over his nephew and niece’s firebending training, though Azula is a master in her own right and Zuko is nearly a master as well. He forces them back to their basics.

Zuko yells and stomps and Iroh is reminded of his brother at the same age, back before his brother became the monster he is now. The same brother he sees glimpses of when Ozai is alone with his wife and children, the same brother that he sees none of in the Fire Lord. Azula is silent and moves to do her basics without complaint. She unnerves him, but he still loves her.

He loves them both. And he loves what remains of his brother in Ozai, even if he would choose the balance of the world over the Fire Lord in an instant.

They visit Admiral Zhao first. He declares that he has already captured the Avatar and that he would be more than willing to transfer his prisoner onto the royal family’s better equipped ship.

The siblings visit the chained Avatar. Zhao speaks of what he plans to do.

That is the thing about Ozai loving his children. Loving them means protecting them from certain cruelties, at least more than he did in canon. Zuko and Azula both see the Avatar, only twelve, and Zhao’s words overlap with Azulon’s orders to their father when Lu Ten dies. After all, Zuko had been only a year younger then.

That night, the Blue Spirit and the Dragon Emperor break the Avatar out of the stronghold with dual dao and twin daggers as the Prince and Princess sleep in their luxurious cabins. If that isn’t completely the truth, no one says anything to suggest as such. The Blue Spirit is knocked out by an arrow to the forehead. The Dragon Emperor does not allow the Avatar to remove the mask.

(“How did you not see that coming, Zuzu?”

“In my defence, you were supposed to be watching my back while I pulled the Avatar away.”)

They meet the Avatar’s companions briefly before the Emperor gestures to the rising sun and they disappear.

It is only after the escape of the Avatar that Iroh begins to consider the siblings further.

They pen a letter to their father.

Ozai reads between the lines and wonders, just once, if perhaps he had sheltered his children from the reality of war too much. He does not wonder again because he knows the alternative would have been far worse.

Instead, Ozai speaks with his wife. Ursa is a complex woman, but the Avatar is the reincarnation of her grandfather and she has an actress’s mind (and thus she has a politician’s mind).

As their children chase the Avatar, the Fire Lord and Lady put their own plan into motion. Canon Ozai may be content to lay all responsibility on his children, but this Ozai is actually a decent dad.

The siblings are free to enter Fire Nation territory as they wish and have no reason to sneak into the temple, even still they do. They watch as a Fire Sage, one of the highest religious authorities in the Fire Nation, disobeys the Fire Lord to help the Avatar.

Zuko’s quick fingers undo the water tribe boy’s restraints as Azula’s undo the girl’s. They share playful smirks, after all, neither of them are in any danger. They are a powerful team and they have their father’s unwavering support.

(“Why did you just untie us?”

“Zhao’s a dick.”)

Avatar Roku emerges in place of Avatar Aang. He pauses in front of the children, the girl that has Rina’s smile, the boy that has her hair (his own hair), always trying to escape from its confines.

They do not waver. They do, however, run when the Avatar begins to destroy the temple.

The siblings believe the Fire Nation is the greatest in the world. They believe that it is their duty to spread their glory to the other nations. But, late at night, taking tea together, they consider that perhaps Fire Lord Sozin went about it in the wrong way.

(Great-grandfather says hi, Ursa reads aloud from their children’s letter. Not for the first time, Ozai regrets sending his children on such a dangerous mission. He knew that Avatar Roku had been spotted on Crescent Island, he knew that he had blown up the temple. How close had his children come to being blown up?)

The Avatar sets course for Omashu. The siblings make a stop in the Fire Nation while they’re nearby. They have a friend to pick up.

Parts: [1] [3] [4]

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meta-enthusiasm · 3 years

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You know what I am really fucking tired of seeing in popular media?

The "evil, hysterical woman in power" trope. The clichè that potrays women who are in a position of power as overzealous, unhinged, power hungry maniacs who are a ticking time bomb waiting to explode.

Female leaders are shown as less resonable and down to earth as their male counterparts, and are often villainized by either the fandom or the narrative of the story itself. They are doomed to fail because of their womanliness and need to be taken down before they enact their evil plans, preferably by a man, or a woman who performs the 'right' kind of femininity.

This trope relies on the sexist misconception that women are more fragile than men, more emotionally unstable and unpredictable.

"Women aren't cut out to be leaders, they should be nurturing and supportive and tend to their families. Having higher aspirations is against their nature and will eventually break them and drive them crazy."

That type of bullshit that was designed to keep women out of leadership positions and keep oppressing us. To keep us quiet and submissive.

Here are a few examples to further explain this stereotype:

Daenerys Targaryen is one of the most well known characters to fall victim to this trope. She is an abuse and rape victim, seeking to change the current social and political systems of the world because she knows how many people suffer under its injustice. ("Crush the wheel.")

For all her compassion and charity she has shown over the series, the writers decided that it would be reasonable for her to go crazy at the end of the show and, despite promising she wouldn't inflict more damage than necessary, kill thousands of innocent people whose government had already surrendered to her.

And guess who had to kill her in the end? Yup, another man. Her love interest, who was "forced" to betray her.

Next, we have:

Morgana Pendragon, from "Merlin". To remind you, she is an abuse victim who had to endure her father's controlling behavior and bigoted attitude towards people with magic abilities which, suprise suprise, she turned out to have. She had to watch as her father murdered and oppressed people just like herself, and when she challenged that behavior, he would come down hard with punishment. (Going so far as to actually throwing her in the dungeons for a couple days.)

Eventually, she rebelled against the corrupt system and had her genocidal father killed. She led a rebellion against Camelot after Uther's son (Arthur) continued to oppress magicians under his reign, and sought to create a better future for herself and her people.

So far so good, right? Well, no. The problem here is that she is the antagonist of the story. She is portrayed as being in the wrong for not quietly taking the injustice and watching it happen.

Halfway through the show, she becomes obsessed with power and status and desperately chases after the throne of Camelot. She is extremly vindictive, manipulative and cruel to others to archieve her goals. She is a "hysterical woman" who is out of control, emotionally unstable, challenges the patriarchy, and therefore needs to be defeated.

Her death was portrayed as tragic, yet absolutely necessary.

(Of course it had to be a man who killed her.)

Azula is the epitome of this horrid, misogynistic trope. She is a fierce, ambitious leader and highly skilled fire bender, respected and feared among her people. She is highly driven and succeeds at almost everything she sets her mind to.

Ever since she came into this world, she was better at everything than Zuko. She was a better fighter than him, a better bender, better strategist, better child. And that is precisely the reason why she had to lose in the end.

Despite coming from the exact same circumstances as Zuko, the story and the fandom at large see Azula as way less redemable and likable than him. Even though she is an abuse victim whose own mother hated her and is a literal child soldier, she doesn't get any sympathy from the protagonists of the story. The otherwise so understanding and wise Iroh even calls her "crazy", (which is, if you've done some basic research into misogynistic expressions, really fucking problematic.) and tells Zuko that there is no saving her. Why? He doesn't tell, but it's obvious that the writers made him say this because of their own internalized sexist beliefs. She isn't offered a way out of her toxic environment like Zuko was. She didn't get the support from Iroh because he had already given up on her.

To top it off, she has a nervous breakdown near the end and loses her remaining sanity. Because, you know, "She's craaaazy!! And SO unstable!! Typical woman." (Not to mention how this further stigmatizes mental illness and portrays it as something only evil people get.)

She was supposed to become the next fire lord, a position that carries utmost power and influence. Of course, such authority could not be given to a woman. That's why Zuko, a man, gets to be the next fire lord, and we are left assuming Azula will be spending the rest of her days in prison.

The writers assume the audience detests Azula and wants her to suffer. She doesn't deserve a happy ending, or the love and support that Zuko got.

Why? Because she poses a threat to the status quo, the patriarchy. She challenged the belief that men had to be the best and most efficient at everything they do, that women could indeed be better leaders and be happy with having a career and not be nurturing, motherly figures to the men in their lives. And for that transgression, for breaking gender stereotypes, Azula was punished.

(It's also why Katara, someone who performs the "right" kind of femininity by being nurturing, motherly, supportive, healing, doting, and is the care taker of the group, ends up taking Azula, the evil and perverted form of femininity, down. I believe @batboyblog has made a similar post about this.)

This is Carmilla from the popular Netflix show "Castlevania", and if you've payed attention to my previous points, it should be pretty obvious what her character represents and how her story ends.

Note that she is also an abuse and rape survivor who is represented as evil and cruel for being angry at what was done to her.

To top it off, she is also an example of the man hating woman stereotype, whose anger at the misogyny and sexism of the world is portrayed as an "overreaction" and as "too much".

At the end of the story, she had to be taken down by another man (Isaac) so that the status quo could be preserved, and the reign of a crazy bitch like her could be stopped. Horay, the day is saved from yet another unstable, selfish woman who would have brought suffering and pain over her country if allowed to rule. Hysterical women with their demand for equality.

Conclusion:

In all these examples, we can see female abuse victims thriving for power and status, for respect, being represented as something negative and something to avoid. Trying to fundamentally change a system that is rigged against women/female representing people is a fruitless endevour that will eventually fail and drive us crazy, because our minds aren't strong enough to handle this type of responsibility and status.

Holding on to anger and bitterness over what was done to us is the sign of a bad person, and the only morally acceptable path is to forgive/ignore our abusers and let the injustice continue to happen.

Strangely enough though, that same gaslighting, victim blaming mentality gets almost never applied to male characters. Men who seek vengeance are never portrayed as weak or crazy for giving in to the wish of changing a corrupt system/killing bad people. (Batman, the Punisher, Hawkeye, John Wick, Jason Todd, Erin, Scar from FMAB, Iron Man, and so on)

The reason why these stereotypes almost never apply to men but almost always to women is sexism. There is no other explanation for this. These tropes were specifically designed to make society believe that women aren't cut out for leadership positions and are happiest with domestic, easy tasks like watching after our children and taking care of the household.

Women who are angry, women who are dominant are to be feared and distrusted. They are represented as a danger to the general public and need to be taken down before they enact their evil plans.

Feel free to add further examples.

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hubba-bubble-otaku · 3 years

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LONG post warning:

Not_So_Random ATLA theory:

I don’t know if I’m the only one who thinks this... but we all know Ozai had absolutely no problem with killing Zuko after firelord Azulon ordered him to do so as punishment. We all know Ozai is evil as can be. So evil he shouldn’t even have the luxury of being sent to hell because all he would do is try to practice getting his firebending back. He even tried to send an assassin on Ursa’s ex boyfriend/fiancé when he thought she was writing letters to him. So yeah, evil asshole (along with many other very explicit names). SO I AM HERE TO ASK THIS: is it plausible to believe Lu Ten may not have really died in battle, but Ozai sent an assassin to kill him?

When you think about it, every character in ATLA had some level of depth to them and served in some way to the overall story. So Lu Ten –the son of General Iroh/the Dragon of the West/one of the most powerful fire benders– Lu Ten just dying in battle seems a little too simplistic.

The idea that Ozai hired someone to make sure Lu Ten did not return from battle... if Ozai didn’t use a fire nation native as the assassin (sit the f*ck down Sparky Sparky Boom Man)

it wouldn’t be a stretch to say Ozai could’ve had a few corrupt earth benders in his contacts.

BUT REALLY,

Azula was able to easily turn the dai lee, so Ozai could have probably easily proposed some gold/land to a few corrupt earth benders if not a fire nation native (and then probably instead of delivering said gold/land either had them executed or thrown into the Boiling Rock). Regardless, for the remainder of this post, let’s entertain the idea Ozai might have had his nephew assassinated. Why? Ozai not only hated his brother as a person (even before Iroh found enlightenment through the spirits) but Ozai was also consumed by jealousy because Iroh was the first born And favorite son AND the last one to be able to earn the title ‘Dragon’ because Iroh ‘killed’ the last living dragon. Ozai has always been second son, second in line for the throne, with no cool title like dragon⬇️

BUT Lu Ten is born - meaning Lu Ten is now second in line for the throne and Ozai is pushed back to third. Lu Ten was obviously older than Zuko so we can assume Lu Ten was born before Ozai and Ursa were arranged to be married.

The only reason Azulon even sought Ursa (granddaughter of Avatar Roku) out was probably because Azulon needed his second son to hold some type of significance.

Azulon to Ozai (probably):“Marry the granddaughter of the last avatar, give me some above average grandchildren, and you won’t be completely insignificant to me Ozai” (sadly I imagine that being the most FatherSon talk those two would ever have) - so Ozai obviously hated Zuko, liked(?) Azula, and hated Iroh and Lu Ten by association for being in his way of the throne along with Azulon. Is it completely crazy to believe Ozai sent some sort of assassin after Lu Ten, and ordered the assassin to make it seem like a ‘died in battle’ type of death? Assuming Iroh’s wife is dead because we never see her; I think she died in childbirth - Ozai KNEW that Lu Ten was the most important person in Iroh’s life, without question.

Ozai KNEW it would DESTROY his brother if Lu Ten died.

If Lu Ten is dead, Ozai would be second in line for the throne again. If Iroh was destroyed emotionally/psychologically, because of his only son’s death and deemed unfit to rule, Ozai himself has a higher chance of being next in line after Azulon dies. All Ozai cared about was the throne and the power that came with it. Think back to right after Lu Ten died. Zuko’s flashback in ‘Zuko Alone’ where they were all in Azulon’s chambers and Azulon told Ozai

“Say what it is you want. Everyone else go.”

Remember not just the proposal Ozai made, or the incredible performance by Mark Hamill, No. I want you to remember the tone and specific word choice / phrasing Ozai used in the following proposal :::

Ozai: Father, you must have realized as I have, that with Lu Ten gone, Iroh’s bloodline has ended. After his son’s death, my brother abandoned the siege at Ba Sing Se; and who knows when he will return home? But I am here father; and my children are alive.”

Azulon: “Say what it is you want.”

Ozai: “Father, revoke Iroh’s birthright. I am your humble servant; here to serve you and our nation. Use me.”

Azulon: “You dare suggest I betray Iroh? My firstborn? Directly after the demise of his only beloved son? I think Iroh has suffered enough; but you? Your punishment has Scarcely BEGUN!”

Azula quoting Azulon to Zuko: “Your punishment must fit your crime. You must know the pain of losing a firstborn son... by sacrificing your own.”

Zuko⬇️:

AND OZAI WAS GOING TO FREAKING DO IT WITHOUT QUESTION! HIS FIRSTBORN AND ONLY SON. This example alone proves that Ozai has no problem killing family (the fact he takes Ursa up on her offer for her to kill Azulon with an untraceable poison in exchange for Zuko’s life is only further proof of this).

(gives Ursa the biggest “Mother’s Day” - “Thank You” card in existence for not only putting up with a psycho husband BUT ALSO committing mega treason - all for her baby boy 💋 love you Ursa)

OKAY! I know I’ve gone into many tangents and gotten off topic maybeee one too many times with this -

BUT MY POINT IS :

there is no real reason in my mind that Ozai wouldn’t be diabolical enough to (and most likely did) intricately plan Lu Ten’s assassination all for his own personal gain. AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS THIS IS PROBABLE?

#lu ten atla #atla zuko #prince zuko #atla ursa #fire lord azulon #fire lord ozai #uncle iroh #atla azula #atla the search #atla #avatar the last airbender #phoenix king #sparky sparky boom man #fire lord #mother’s day

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sokkastyles · 1 year

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Hi,

Thank you for your response to my previous query. Hope you are doing well.

I wanted to ask about Azula and Iroh. I have come across takes that Iroh could have helped Azula, or the gift he gave her was wrong. I can't help but wonder, did Iroh have any sort of relationship with Azula, because maybe he could have helped her if he did.

I would like your thoughts on this, and I apologize if I made any mistakes in my question, I am not well versed on this topic.

We just don't know very much about Iroh's relationship with Azula. What we do know is that he felt positively enough towards her to get her a gift, and literally nothing else from his end until after she tries to kill him, at which point he says she's crazy and she needs to go down.

What we know from Azula's end is that she felt that her uncle was a lazy fatso who she wanted to die so her father could be firelord, that she burned a gift he got her simply because it wasn't what she wanted, that she mocked him as a quitter and a loser for mourning the death of his son, that she tried to imprison and kill him.

The problem with "Iroh could have helped Azula" is the same problem with saying Ursa could or should have helped Azula. First, we don't know that he didn't try, and second, before she tries to kill him, the only interaction we are shown is positive on his end (getting her a gift), so there's no reason to believe he felt negatively towards her unless you are looking for a reason to blame the victim.

Again, the only interaction we have between them before Azula tries to kill him is positive on his part. We know he thought enough of her to get her a gift. Just because Azula didn't like the gift doesn't mean Iroh is at fault for giving it to her, and it definitely doesn't excuse any of her actions towards him. To hear people talk about the doll, you would think they would have preferred it if Iroh got her nothing. People talk about Iroh giving Azula a doll like it was an act of abuse, and it's utterly ridiculous and pretty ugly, honestly. I wonder if the people saying this would treat their relatives in a similar way if they got a gift they didn't like?

And the fact that giving her a gift she didn't like is seen as this huge crime is one of the big reasons why I lean more and more towards thinking he couldn't have helped her, actually, and why, although I do think Iroh would want to help his niece, I don't think she would accept that help.

Someone who destroys a gift a family member gives them because it wasn't what they wanted is someone who is not going to want help from others if it doesn't validate them. Azula saw no value in the doll and didn't care enough about Iroh to have any sentimental value for the gift or at least pretend to, and indeed, felt enough hatred for him to destroy something he gave her upon the moment she received it. What do you think she would do if he tried to help her in a way that went against her worldview and conception of herself?

Just like with Ursa, the problem is that people are assuming that Iroh must have done something wrong offscreen to justify Azula's hatred and violence. Which is the literal definition of blaming the victim. It would be one thing if Azula's attitude towards Iroh was specific to him, but it's not. This is how she treats everyone in her life who is not Ozai. At some point, when people have to constantly insist that every other character except Azula is at fault for her badness, you have to realize what the common denominator is.

Often the excuse I see is that Azula is a child, but the thing is, we've seen Azula manipulate and hurt people older than her, including adults and her older brother. We've seen her manipulate her mother and lie to her face when she wants access to Zuko to hurt him. We've seen her try to manipulate Iroh, for the same reason. If Iroh were the type to make excuses for her, even in an attempt to help her, he'd probably wind up as one of her victims, too. Iroh is kind but he's also smart, and lived with a brother and father who behaved in the same way so he knows what it looks like when someone is not going to accept help, but is only going to be interested in taking advantage of you.

It is not healthy to feel an obligation to fix someone who destroys gifts you give them, insults you, and tries to hurt you, and it's definitely not healthy to insist that other people have to do that. And the people who insist Iroh should have helped Azula are all too willing to find fault in something Iroh did for her for me to believe that they actually want her to be helped. What they really want is someone to blame for her behavior.

Yeah, I've heard all sorts of excuses about the doll; that Iroh is horrible for enforcing gender norms on Azula, that it was only a gift of obligation and he didn't really care (again, do YOU treat your relatives this way? Do you teach the children in your life to treat their relatives this way?) But in the end, what is more likely, that a character who is largely a positive force in the narrative is secretly malicious in getting his niece a gift, even though the text evidence says otherwise, or that a character who is largely a negative force in the narrative who has absorbed hateful ideology from her father is, in fact, a person who does hateful things?

#azula #iroh

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captain-azoren · 3 years

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"the writers went so hard on making her this seed of evil since she was born" (I am playing Devil's Advocate). Maybe the reason why Iroh & Ursa treat Azula like she was born evil is due to the circumstances of her birth. For the comics explain that Azulon forced Ozai to marry Ursa so they could produce super-powered benders that would ensure the security of his line. But when Zuko failed to show the spark, Ozai almost killed Zuko in anger, with only Ursa's pleadings saving the boy . 1/3

"But what probably happened is that Ozai waited a year until Ursa recovered from pregnancy (and so Zuko would be weaned off by the time another baby arrived) and then forced her to have another baby to "replace" the failure. And so Iroh and Ursa, despite trying otherwise, view Azula as born evil since she literally exists to be Ozai's perfect daughter and Azulon's weapon. Especially since Azula was born with the spark and quickly took after Ozai. 2/3

But in effect creating a self-fulfilling prophecy since their neglect of Azula basically pushed Azula into Ozai's arms and gave her no means to push back against Ozai's indoctrination and grooming. And yes, Ozai groomed his daughter into becoming an emotionally/socially stunned, ruthless, genocidal, murderous, colonizing child general/solider by the tender age of 14 just so he could become supreme ruler of the world. 3/3"

That is one way of looking at it. Still, the backstory for the comics had not been thought of yet when the show was being written, so from a meta standpoint, I'm inclined to ignore the whole eugenics plot.

It's just that, what gets me is, the narrative never challenges Iroh, Ursa, or Zuko or anyone's view of Azula. Not in any substantial way. The most sympathy for Azula comes from Azula herself. We don't get to really see a moment where Azula gets to connect with anyone on a very meaningful level. Zuko, Mai, and Ty Lee don't comfort her at all during The Beach, and the mirror scene is all in her mind. The closest we get is when Zuko shows concern while Azula is falling, but that gets snuffed out pretty quick when she saves herself.

The major issue is that when characters say things like "She's crazy and needs to go down" or "What is wrong with that child?" we as the audience are never asked to question this, we're expected to accept this as the correct viewpoint because Iroh and Ursa are both framed as these scions of goodness that are beyond reproach.

It's not until the comics that Azula gets some acknowledgment as having been groomed and abused to be what she is, but the writing is such a mixed, messy bag. It still portrays Azula as having been a bad seed from birth because of this vague "spark" she had that Zuko didn't, and can't seem to decide if she herself is to blame for her own evil actions.

Again, the issue is that when Azula was being set up, so much focus was put on her having the aesthetics of evil that it ended up undermining her character when it was time to take a closer look. Instead of getting a story of a child soldier who was emotionally abused and groomed to be what she is, the narrative frames her as just being a smug, evil royal who is overwhelmingly powerful and threatening with an undercurrent of sadism.

This ended up working so well that people got way too attached to Azula being the absolute height of villainy to the point that they actively discourage giving her sympathy, despite all the ingredients for a sympathetic and tragic character arc all being ripe for the picking, which is why the comics are so mixed, because they just can't let go of Azula as a villain.

This is how Azula ended up being flanderized from a villain who was highly competent and smug to being a crazed madwoman who is constantly being portrayed as a sadist who tortures and rapes everyone. On that note, it's also why there's this huge glut of really unsavory rape/revenge stories centered around Azula.

Azula as a character exemplifies what is the biggest failing of what is otherwise a masterpiece of children's media; for all the themes of redemption and forgiveness, Azula ends up being seen as the one exception who can never and should never be given a second chance. Maybe at most a bit of sympathy, but only to make the protagonists look good, all because they wanted to create the most badass villain they could.

Azula not being given a chance undermines everything that The Last Airbender supposedly stands for. Aang and Zuko gave Ozai a chance. Jet got a chance, even Zhao of all characters was given a chance by Zuko. Azula is never extended a hand, never tried to reason with, at least not in the show.

I'm hesitant to hold out hope that Azula will get a real chance in the comics. I don't know if the franchise will ever challenge Zuko and Iroh's animosity towards her. When you really get right down to it, the worst thing Azula did was doing her best to survive living with an abusive parent, pushing her to succeed because failure was not an option for her.

I just want this franchise to acknowledge that Azula was a victim, and despite all the wrong she did, deserves to be helped because it's the right thing to do. I want it to stop treating her as irredeemably evil for being superior to Zuko, especially after Zuko disowns their father and has no reason to resent her anymore. I want the fandom to stop thinking that Azula is someone who needs to be torn down and humiliated for striving to be the best in an environment where coming up short meant being burned and banished. It doesn't matter how she was born, she still ended up suffering and no child deserves that.

#answer #Azula #avatar #atla #avatar the last airbender #meta

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softluci · 3 years

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atla hcs

i’ve been thinking about this for a minute, and i wanna do a set of headcanons for how i think the brothers (and eventually the undateables) would feel about certain avatar: the last airbender characters, or something along those lines. i actually just wanted to talk about lucifer and azula, so everything else here is a bonus. this doesn’t matter, but for what it’s worth: wherever the mc pops up, they will be gn, enjoy!

also: this kinda goes without saying, but there are most definitely spoilers in here. for which seasons? i don’t remember, i watched this show when i was nine, but proceed with caution if you have yet to watch it.

lucifer

if it’s one thing you are not gonna play with him about, it is princess azula. this man is an azula supremacist, and while he might not say those words exactly, anyone would be able to tell that’s the case if they talked to him about the show for longer than two minutes. he actually wasn’t even interested in the show until azula showed up, and he will readily admit this to anyone who inquires about it. what makes it funny is the fact that her first appearance is literally, like, ten seconds, so that means he saw her and immediately knew she was the best, which, like—real recognize real. is he projecting? am i projecting? yes, no. in that order. shut up.

he actually almost couldn’t hide how proud he was when azula almost killed aang, this man is deranged. the same way he takes her wins personally, he takes every loss of hers personally as well, so when she lost that agni kai? 🚶‍♂️

the average azula enjoyer believes azula should get a redemption arc, lucifer believes azula should simply get whatever she wants, and the difference between those two things is striking.

average azula enjoyer: i believe azula deserves to heal and redeem herself. it isn’t fair that she was left with her tyrannical, abusive father during formative years of her childhood, with no one to help her or show her what it means to be good. she cannot be blamed for the way she turned out. it especially isn’t fair that she gets no redemption for evil things she did at age fourteen, for a year, while the entire show is iroh’s redemption arc, and he was doing evil for decades—he is literally called “the dragon of the west” because of it. additionally—

lucifer morningstar, resident azula supremacist: everything azula did, she was right to do, because i would’ve done the same. there was never a point at which she was wrong, it’s just unfortunate that nobody could keep up with her, her father included. the only reason why she ended up losing, ultimately, is because this is a children’s show, and good is supposed to win out. it was plot armor. if this were realistic, she would’ve beaten everyone—at the very least, she would’ve beaten zuko in the final agni kai, it’s just that he broke the rules and brought backup. at the time of the agni kai, she was literally the strongest firebender in the show. that’s actually the only part of this lucifer is right about, but you can’t tell him that.

if you ask him what his favorite quote in the show is, he’ll immediately say, “i can see your whole history in your eyes. you were born with nothing, so you’ve had to struggle, and connive, and claw your way to power. but true power? the divine right to rule? is something you’re born with.” and he will do it so well that it’ll give you the chills.

in actuality, his favorite quote is, “i’d really rather our family physician look after little zuzu, if you don’t mind.” it’s just that it doesn’t have the same chilling effect as the first one.

does he like any other characters? does he even care about any other characters? he has a deep fondness for sokka because he reminds him of mammon. yes, and they are katara and suki, with honorable mention to avatar kyoshi.

does he hate any characters? no, but if you mention avatar kuruk or uncle iroh to him, he might get annoyed. is mildly frustrated by aang, but has the sense to cut him some slack for being twelve and the last of his kind. never speak of ozai.

mammon

toph supremacist. frequent user of the phrase, “toph is just fucking class.” knows for a fact that toph is the best and strongest bender in the entire show, and no one has ever managed to convince him otherwise. mainly because nobody really disagrees. like, have you ever even seen toph slander?

just like lucifer with azula, he wasn’t invested in the show until toph showed up, which, once again, is funny, because technically her very first appearance is only a few seconds long, so that means he saw her for a literal second and just knew. you can’t even be mad at that, real recognize real.

no one will ever see him more proud than when he’s talking about one toph beifong. he can’t get over her raw, unbridled talent, and he really never should. if you let him (so, if you’re levi), he will spend so much time analyzing her character and every single one of her strengths, from the fact that she’s the only one who knows when azula is lying, all the way down to the fact that even though she projects a tough persona, she can still be vulnerable, AND—

not only is she strong, but her personality is simply untouchable. this girl grows on literally everyone; like, even lucifer likes her, even though he’ll die before saying it out loud.

he gets so smug whenever someone asks him who his favorite is and it’s because he knows his taste is top tier, and what makes it worse is that no one can even disagree because toph is just that good.

will never admit it, but he was shaking and crying during the scene where it looked like toph and sokka were literally gonna die. was also gonna cry when toph almost drowned. basically: he is eternally grateful to suki.

his favorite line in the entire show is, “i am the greatest earthbender in the world! don’t you two dunderheads ever forget it.” it’s just fucking class.

does he like any other characters? he sees himself in sokka, he’ll tell you that much. he also knows that satan and lucifer like sokka because of him, and he found out because he heard them talking about it. to their joint dismay, they turned to see him standing behind them, grinning like an idiot, and they couldn’t even scare him into leaving them alone when he hugged both of them at the same time because, one, they didn’t really want to, and two, they couldn’t turn off their fondness for him fast enough ^_^. did they reciprocate his hug? did they stay like that for a little bit? did lucifer kiss the tops of their heads? maybe so🤨

does he hate any characters? not really, but he doesn’t particularly like azula because she scares him and makes him sad, like lucifer and doesn’t see her appeal. once tried to make a case for why she shouldn’t have a redemption arc and felt painfully human from the way he almost died. do not mention toph’s parents to him. the name ozai should also never be on your tongue.

levi

resident sokka enjoyer and suki appreciator. do not ever call sokka dumb in front of this man unless you want a proper lecture. unlike a few of his brothers, he doesn’t like sokka just because of his similarities to mammon. he also likes sokka because he relates to him on a personal level.

levi absolutely knows what it’s like to feel inadequate and outshined by people younger than you. he absolutely knows what it’s like to feel like your competence is overlooked. while he might be unfamiliar with how it feels to strategize for a war and lose a battle, but it is one of his biggest fears and it absolutely crushed him to see sokka go through that.

on a lighter note, levi has a deep appreciation for sokka’s comedic value, despite the fact that it can overshadow his intelligence. levi would actually venture to say that he likes sokka’s funnier side because it overshadows his intelligence to the point that it throws the opposition for a loop. this is the aspect of sokka that reminds him of mammon.

it also seriously warmed his heart to see how everyone missed sokka while he was away for sword training; he especially liked that episode because it was just an affirmation of the fact that sokka is an integral part of team avatar, which he really needed to see.

you know who else is an integral part of team avatar who needs to be recognized as such more often? suki. do you know how much pain levi is in every time he thinks about the lack of suki screentime . it’s a lot . suki is just too good for the amount of screentime she has, he’s sorry, but it’s true. this is evidenced by the scene of her literally running across prisoners’ heads to apprehend the warden of boiling rock. that scene speaks for itself—she and the other kyoshi warriors end up as zuko’s body guards for a reason.

he will never let anyone forget that if it weren’t for suki, sokka would still be a misogynist. she was an essential element to sokka’s growth as a character and everyone had better remember it or so help him. also , he is a firm believer in the fact that suki was the best love interest for sokka, with zuko as a close second. don’t ask questions. rip yue but argue with the wall.

his favorite line in the series?

“zuko’s gone crazy! i made a sand sculpture of suki, and he destroyed it! oh, and he’s attacking aang.”

it’s not profound or cool or anything like that, but it makes him smile and giggle every time he thinks of it ^_^.

does he like any other characters? he has a lot of love for toph and azula for the sole fact that the series improved exponentially after both of their introductions; he thinks both of them are in leagues of their own and seeing them in action just puts a smile on his face. he’s also inexplicably fond of king bumi.

does he hate any characters? not particularly, actually! he pretty much respects and appreciates everyone, except the guy who mutilated his thirteen year old son for speaking out of turn.

satan

just pick a girl. any girl. and from the way he talks about them, you’ll think they’re his favorite. he can and will go on about the girls of atla for the rest of eternity.

but since we’re being specific:

katara appreciator. azula enjoyer. basically, between him and lucifer, no tongue raised against azula shall prosper. he has a deep respect for each of their wraths. he also really must have a thing for angst because both of these characters just break his heart.

if you let him (in other words, if you’re levi), he will go on about how it’s not fair that people call katara annoying when, in reality, she just hasn’t healed from the trauma of seeing her mother’s corpse at age eight, followed by having to take care of her village, meaning she got literally no time to grieve properly, and—

call katara annoying in front of him and you might actually have to meet god for your shallow views of such a deep, complex character.

he will also go on and on about how katara would be the best bender in the show, if it weren’t for toph, who is untouchable. instead, he’ll talk about how katara almost killed pakku for being misogynistic and how she single handedly beat azula during sozin’s comet. you will frequently hear this man say, “katara aang’s master for a reason,” and he’s right.

similar to if you call katara annoying, if you call azula scary in front of satan, he’s bullying you. he’s sorry, but it has to happen. no way you’re scared of a traumatized fourteen year old, what are you, eight? or do you have no understanding of azula’s depth? both are unacceptable.

satan is the average azula enjoyer, times about seven. you simply won’t get away with speaking poorly of azula in front of this man, so if you’re like mammon and don’t like her, you better tread very carefully.

one time mammon tried to be like, “azula is too far gone to deserve redemption anyways,” and satan literally reverted to his demon form as he said: “if i were abandoned with my terrible father as a child, with literally no one to help me, and then my friends betrayed me, and then, as i was about to be crowned ruler of my country, my dumb fucking idiot brother showed up with his dumb peasant friend for backup, which isn’t even allowed, i might be mad forever too, actually—” and then he threw the nearest chair at mammon for his criminally bad take.

another reason why satan loves azula so much is because he’s convinced she’s a lesbian and satan is the most “let’s go lesbians!!!” person you will ever meet. you actually can’t convince him that she isn’t a lesbian. forget chan. nobody gives a fuck about chan.

what’s his favorite line in the entire series?

“trust me, zuko—it’s not going to be much of a match.”

like, come on. katara is just too good.

does he like any other characters (other than the girls of atla)? he’ll never admit it, but he has a lot of respect for sokka and a soft spot for him because he reminds him of mammon. he also has a lot of respect for aang because he reminds him of beel of how well he handled literally everything despite being twelve.

does he hate any—yes. never speak of avatar roku. or iroh. or ozai. for good measure, don’t mention general zhao either.

asmo

what lucifer is to azula, asmo is to ty lee. like do i even have to say anything else. but for what it’s worth, he also love, love, loves azula because she reminds him of lucifer, from her strength and class, all the way down to her descent into madness. and even though she breaks his heart just as much as she does satan’s. he may or may not have cried over azula in satan’s room while they were talking about her. unlike lucifer and satan, he can respect it if you don’t like her, but it’ll make him so sad.

but enough about azula. ty lee is where it’s at for him. her subtle strength and unwavering love is something to die for, and he will defend it against anyone, up to and including lucifer, and he’ll win too. asmo is not to be trifled with and neither is ty lee; he can make a strong argument as to why ty lee is the strongest character in the show, and you will have a very hard time trying to refute his points. (the main point being: it’ll be really hard to win a fight against someone who can paralyze you in a few seconds, bender or not.)

the fact that ty lee ran away from home because she was tired of the fact that nobody ever saw her as her own person is just something that tugs at asmo’s heartstrings. he thinks ty lee’s bravery is just something that can be so personal.

also—he has a massive appreciation for the fact that, even though there’s a war going on and ty lee is in near-constant danger, she still has the sense to maintain her appearance and worry about the skincare of not just herself, but also people she’s close to. that is a detail he will never let anyone forget.

never mentions it in front of lucifer but one of his favorite scenes is when she paralyzes azula to save mai. once again: ty lee’s bravery is just something that can be so personal.

he doesn’t have a favorite line in the series, but his favorite exchange of dialogue is between ty lee and azula, wherein ty lee is trying to teach azula how to flirt. he thinks it’s the cutest thing in the world.

does he like any other characters? of course! he likes everyone ^_^ . you’d actually be hard pressed to find someone he hates. ozai. it’s ozai. he has a real soft spot for mai because she reminds him of belphie. something about their shared aversion to affection is just so cute to him!

beel

aang supremacist, will hold steadfast to the fact that aang is the best character in the show and you will struggle to figure out how to convince him otherwise.

if you ask him why aang is his favorite, the first thing he will do is gesture to a picture of him and say, “look at the material,” like it’s the most obvious thing in the world, before diving into a ten minute in depth character analysis for this boy.

come on. he shouldn’t even have to explain himself. not only is aang one of the strongest, most competent avatars to exist, ever, he also mastered all four elements in a year, when he was twelve—he’s literally a different breed. and he managed to beat ozai in his own way, without killing him, as a means of staying true to a culture that could have literally died with him at any point in the show. aang is just fucking class.

he also admires aang for his near unwavering kindness and lighthearted nature. and for never going berserk and killing everyone he sees, especially after finding out his people were killed while he was in ice.

you have no idea how much pain beel was in when he found out that the air nomads were just gone. seeing a child find out that not only their family is gone, but also the entirety of their people and culture, just absolutely broke his heart. and that guilt aang was feeling? hit way too close to home for him.

he also thinks it’s really nice that aang was so quick to forgive zuko after everything, and the two of them ended up being really good friends. it just puts a smile on his face.

after some reflection with levi, he would’ve liked to see the full scope of an airbender’s power in the series; as in, he would’ve liked to see someone suffocated, but it’s okay, because aang wasn’t like that. and he heard it happens in the next series over.

anyway, beel’s favorite quote in the show...well, it isn’t really a quote, as much as it’s a dialogue between two characters. it’s the scene where toph asks, “do you really think friendships can last more than one lifetime?” and aang says, “i don’t see why not.” it could bring a tears to his eyes just thinking about it; and in the next series over when it’s proven to be true, he absolutely cried.

does he like any other characters? he’s actually really fond of zuko and mai because they both remind him of belphie. he also likes sokka for the same reason lucifer and satan like sokka. he has a deep appreciation for katara because aang would literally be dead without if it weren’t for her.

does he hate any characters? well, he doesn’t really like azula. he feels bad for her, but he doesn’t like her. but as for who he hates? take a wild guess.

belphie

zuko makes him sob is his number one. yes zuko is his favorite because of his redemption arc, yes he sees himself in zuko, no he will not explain any further than that, what’s your point🤨

in actuality, he will never be able to properly articulate how important it is for him to see that redemption is, indeed, attainable, if you put the work in. in a similar vein, he will also never be able to give words to how important it is for him to see that forgiveness is also attainable. it means the world to him. that is why it makes him cry. the feeling is overwhelming. i’m gonna cry if i think about it for too long.

he will cling to the fact that zuko is the best character in the show, and he will cling to it even when zuko embarrasses him by saying stupid shit like, “no lightning today?” and even when zuko is so awkward it causes him physical pain. that’s his number one and he’s not changing on it!

firm zukka supporter. will not argue. that’s all.

what’s his favorite line in the entire series? it’s one of the two you’re thinking of. make that decision for yourself.

does he like any other characters? he positively adores aang and will readily admit that it’s because he reminds him of beel. bonus points for aang because he also loves the dynamic between him and zuko. toph is a distant third, mainly because he just really likes her attitude. he looks at her and thinks, now this is someone who would not hesitate to kick lucifer’s ass.

does he hate any characters? you better believe it. he hates iroh because he reminds him of dia. he can’t really bring himself to like azula because she makes him a different kind of sad. and if you know what’s good for you, you will never mention ozai.

#can you tell i am also an azula enjoyer #doesn't matter because i'm correct but still #worth mentioning i suppose #obey me #obey me!#obey me headcanons #obey me imagines #obey me lucifer #obey me mammon #obey me levi #obey me leviathan #obey me satan #obey me asmo #obey me beel #obey me beelzebub #obey me belphie #obey me belphegor

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kidnappedbycartoons · 2 years

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Iroh's influence on Zuko's redemption arc

I know that Zuko's Redemption Arc is seen as one of the best in TV history. I mean, you can look up any top 10 list about the best Redemption arcs and there's a 90% chance that you'll find him on the list. And I love zuko. That doesn't mean I think he's without flaws. And I think his Redemption Arc has some flaws as well.

I know Iroh's well loved within the fandom. But I have my issues with him when it comes to Zuko and Azula. I said in another post that I don't like how he treated Azula, by calling her crazy and saying that she needs to go down. Because I found it to be very hypocritical of him. But when it comes to him and Zuko, I understand that Iroh loves his nephew, but he was a little too adamant about Zuko going down the right path, that it got to a point where it didn't feel like Zuko's decision to change sides.

Because, throughout the entire series, he's kind of like the angel on Zuko shoulder, always telling him the good and moral thing to do. And even in the Lake Laogai episode, Iroh starts to get pretty pushy about Zuko's destiny. He keeps telling Zuko that his destiny is up to him. But then he also keeps pushing him towards a path that he wants Zuko to walk. Like, he tells Zuko not to stir up any trouble, because it could affect all of the good things that are happening for them. And when Zuko says that these are all good things happening for Iroh and that he might want more than a nice apartment and to sell tea, Iroh says that there's nothing wrong with a life of peace and tells him to think about it is that Zuko wants.

And then when Zuko goes to steal Appa and Iroh finds him, Iroh asks if Zuko is following his own destiny or one that someone forced on him. And when Zuko decides not to steal Appa, Iroh tells him he did the right thing. Here's my thing. Is it the same thing to tell someone to choose their own path, to choose their own destiny, and then tell them that they did the right thing when they do what you want them to do?

Because after Zuko battles that illness and is happy helping Iroh out with his new tea shop, Iroh is happy. But these are all things that he likes. You know what I mean? When Zuko does what Iroh wants, he's happy. And when Zuko does what Iroh doesn't want, he's disappointed. When the two reunite during the finale, he literally says that he was sad because he thought that Zuko lost his way and then says that Zuko has found it again. How is he supposed to know that? Because throughout the entire series, he's saying that Zuko needs to choose his Destiny and what his honor means for him, but then when Zuko does something that doesn't match up with Iroh's idea for his destiny, it saddens him. But when Zuko does, he's saying that you've found your way. It feels like he's giving Zuko two options. Either walk the road that ozai has laid out for him or walk the road that Iroh wants.

And it's treated like that in book 3 anyway. Zuko's main conflict seems to be about whether or not he can mend things with his uncle. He's worried if his uncle thinks that he did the right thing. Hell, when Toph comforts him during the Ember Island players play, she tells him that Iroh would be very proud of him. I feel like, Zuko was really given a black or white choice. I don't think he really chose what he wanted.

Because when Zuko tells Iroh that he's the only one that can defeat Ozai besides Aang and that he needs to take his rightful place as Fire Lord, Iroh says that it would be senseless violence and that Zuko should be the one to become Fire Lord. I might have missed it when I watch the show, but when did Zuko ever say that he wanted to be Fire Lord? I don't think that was ever a goal of his. Hell, he was telling IROH to take his place as Fire Lord, so clearly Zuko wasn't even considering it for himself. But he goes back to fight Azula and take the throne, because that's what his uncle told him to do. And I have an issue with Iroh for saying that it would be senseless violence for him and Ozai to fight since they are brothers, just to nudge Zuko to go and battle Azula for the throne? When did Zuko ever train for this position? Never. He doesn't know the first thing about running a country. He was banished for three years, has his own issues to work out, and lacks social skills.

This is what I mean. I feel like Zuko's Redemption could have been so much better if it was Zuko having this internal conflict in himself without so much of his uncle's pushing. Because then it makes it seem like he's just walking the path that his uncle wants, because he's a good person and he's changed and he's wise and all that jazz. Zuko looks up to Iroh and when he went back to the Fire Nation, yeah, there were little moments where Zuko was unhappy being there and not being himself, but most of his scenes had to do with him seeking guidance from Iroh, feeling conflicted over betraying him, and wondering how to make amends. I'm not questioning the good in his heart, because we see that he does have that, but it just feels like so much of it was Iroh's influence. There's nothing wrong with guidance, but there is something wrong with pushing your wants onto someone else.

Like Zuko said, did Iroh ever consider what Zuko wanted? Or did he think that he knew what was best for him? I don't know.

Also, I typed all of this on my phone, so if it looks weird or if there's any spelling mistakes, that's why. This was a spur of the moment post.

#atla #avatar: the last airbender #iroh critical #zuko #atla meta

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bellatrixobsessed1 · 3 years

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I disagree that Ursa&Iroh played favorites. The ''she´s crazy and needs to go down'' line was in response to getting attacked by Azula and people in the real world don't respond kindly to getting attacked,besides if Iroh had shown interest in Azula he´d prob get killed on sight by Ozai. At that point he was only able to protect Zuko. Telling a kid to stop bullying another kid which Ursa did isn't favoritism. I understand that it's upsetting that Azula didn't receive the help she needed 1/2

2/2 But at that point no one could help her. But after the show I definitely believe it's possible to help her because then Ozais influence had been removed which was what preventing her from finding positive influences in the first place.

I feel like I’ve kind of talked in circles about this. But I’ll give it another go because there are new points and perspectives here! So I’ll start with the “she’s crazy and she needs to go down thing.” Honestly, yeah. That’s fair. I re-watched the show and that line came up after she shot him with lightning and I feel like that’s a realistic/human response to getting shot.

As for Iroh showing interest; I’m kind of iffy on this one. I feel like Iroh is more powerful than Ozai. I think that Iroh could have taken him. Though idk how power dynamics (fire lord vs his brother) would play in. “At that point he was only able to protect Zuko.” I think that this is actually a huge part of the problem. Azula was abandoned because literally everyone in her life was either focused on protecting Zuko or scared of what Ozai would do to them if they tried to intervene.

Come to think of it, I actually don’t think that I ever said that Ursa & Iroh played favorites. What I have said is that Ursa & Iroh were in difficult positions and that Azula was neglected because (on the surface) it seemed like Zuko needed help more. He was in more immediate danger so to speak so he was the one that they tried to save. And as mentioned; Ozai is the sort that isn’t to be crossed. And so they didn’t try because Ozai had her pretty much isolated.

“ Telling a kid to stop bullying another kid which Ursa did isn't favoritism.” I’ve also never said this. What I did say was that I don’t agree with Ursa’s approach. I 100% agree that it’s good to tell one sibling to stop bullying the other. Ursa’s problem is that (as far as we’ve seen) she never explained to Azula why she was getting yelled at. One of the key components to healthy discipline is telling the kid why what they did wrong is wrong so that they can learn. Ursa kind of just scolded her and moved on. And to a kid (even if it isn’t true) they’re just getting yelled at and they don’t know why.

“ But at that point no one could help her. “ To a degree I agree with this. However I fault them for not even trying. I get that Ozai is terrifying and dangerous. But that almost makes it worse; they know he’s dangerous and scary and they’re adults. Imagine how terrifying he is to a kid. I feel like Ozai has definitely scared Azula at some point. The thing that gets me is that they were brave enough to stick up for Zuko but they didn’t even attempt to help Azula. I would fault them less if they tried and failed. They were brave enough to go against Ozai for Zuko, so why not for Azula too? If this makes sense. I get that she was much more deeply tangled in Ozai’s clutches but tbh I feel like that’s all the more reason to try to save her. In real life CPS (ideally) wouldn’t just abandon a child in trouble because they were manipulated into trusting their abuser 100%. Of course Avatar doesn’t have a CPS and they were facing the literal king. But my point here is that they didn’t seem to have tried to help her at all and that’s where I take issue.

“ But after the show I definitely believe it's possible to help her because then Ozais influence “

I do agree with this 100% I think that she has a much better chance to heal and change with Ozai’s influence out of the way. I feel like it would be much easier to reach out to her since 1. Ozai isn’t a threat & 2. He’s not there to whisper in her ear and mold her anymore. The key would be to get her to 1. recognize that she was abused and that Ozai was her abuser & 2. to help her unlearn some of the things he pushed on her.

Bottom line: I don’t think that Iroh & Ursa were bad people I think that they were in difficult situations. More than anything I think that Ozai is the most responsible for what happened to Azula and that he’s responsible for much of the troubles in the family. Of course Azulon pit Ozai against Iroh so Ozai was in the same position that Azula is. The fire family dynamic is just so complex and multi-faceted that I don’t thing that the blame/responsibility is on any one member of it. I feel like it’s just a whole mess of things that went wrong. And that’s what makes the family so compelling and realistic.

I think that on principal we agree on quite a few things here. There are just a few slight (and some significant) differences. Thanks for the ask! I hope that this clarified a few things.

#Avatar The Last Airbender #Azula #Zuko #Iroh #Ursa #Ozai #Fire Family #Fandom Meta #Azula Meta #Azula Analysis #Azula Discourse

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