#but that doesn't mean that LXC never helps JGY! | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

symphonyofsilence · 1 year

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does Jin Guangyao play a villainous role in Wei WuXian’s story? yes. but is he also the Narrative’s special boy? also, yes.

I don’t remember the post, but the fact that Wei Wuxian, and by extinction, the narrative sympathizes with Jin Guangyao has already been brought up. He draws a comparison between himself and JGY when the crowd suddenly turns against JGY in Lotus Pier and wants WWX to deal with him, and again when the other Sect Leaders led by Sect leader Yao assume that the Guanyin statue is made to resemble JGY himself ‘cause he’s a narcissist, and when people are saying nasty things about JGY in a tavern after his death.

but another way in which the narrative sympathizes with JGY is that every time JGY is shown doing a shitty thing, it’s immediately followed by him being shown in a situation in which he is a victim, or has done something good.

he paralyzes Qin Su after she finds out some horrible truths about him and hides her in the creepy room where WWX finds JGY’s sworn brother’s head? A chapter or an episode after that we see him being trash-talked and cast out by other Nie soldiers when they’re drinking the water he brought, while he’s doing thrice the work they’re doing. we see him cleaning the battlefields and helping the commoners after battles, we see him voluntarily do the work of the servants as a deputy general when they lack staff, and pour people tea, while they rudely clean their cups when they take it from his hands (which NMJ does nothing about), we see him loyally arguing with LXC that he can't leave NMJ for his father’s sect after all NMJ has done for him, and learn that he has saved LXC. CQL shows him in his Meng Yao Era more. We see him repeatedly receive scorn when all he gives others is curtsey and smiles, we see beforehand the Nie Captain be an absolute bitch to him so I'm sure nobody in the audience regretted his loss, but even then we immediately get that jumping in front of NMJ and taking a stab to the chest to save him, and the teary banishment scene that cancels the "guy is now officially a scheming murderer" out.

He's being a bitch to NMJ in the Nightless City? He kills Wen Ruohan & turns out that he has been bravely spying for the Sunshot campaign all this time and they owe him their victory. But even then, he apologizes to NMJ, kneels down, and surrenders himself.

He's protecting Xue Yang? You have him explaining to NMJ why he can't go against his father's wishes, and how he's scared of everything and everyone because he was never given the luxury of safety, status & power, so he can practice that power freely. In the end, NMJ offends his mother and kicks him down the stairs (which he's well aware is a trauma for JGY). Which honor-bound ancient man wouldn't have killed the man who disrespected his mother and kicked him down the stairs? What would have NMJ done had this been done to him? But even then, in the book, the narrative does even more to make JGY sympathetic, LXC comes to NMJ to calm him down, and he says that JGY's in a difficult situation right now. His stepmother beats him & his father doesn't listen to anything he says anymore. Otherwise, he wouldn't have talked back to NMJ. & after that, NMJ's qi deviation happens when he drops eaves on this conversation between LXC & JGY:

I mean if you've tried to murder him thrice, shoved him down the stairs, & called him a whoreson, taken any opportunity to scold him, & you don't like it when he talks back to you, at least let him talk behind your back. He's not even lying or being disrespectful or anything.

He retaliates against WWX & LWJ’s attack by showing WWX as a villain and the way he has killed NMJ comes to light? a few chapters later WWX is surprised that JGY hasn’t visited LXC to demand a search but to tell him that he has prevented everyone from searching the CR and thinks it’s best if LXC, whenever it’s convenient for him opens the doors of the CR so JGY can get this search over with and shut the other sects up. And reassures him that he won’t let LWJ’s reputation be tarnished in any way. (At the stairs of Jinlintai, JGY knew fully well that LWJ was doing what he was doing because he was in love with WWX, as we learn at the Guanyin temple, but he loudly suggested that LWJ is being deceived in front of the crowd to save LXC's brother reputation.) The Donghua even has a wartime flashback from a young Meng Yao saving LXC, feeding him, hiding him, washing his clothes, getting beaten up by the Wen soldiers to keep LXC safe, and even then bringing back food for him with a smile.

He takes everyone hostage, twice (his hostages are children the first time) and is at the peak of his villain moment? You have the whole Guanyin temple thing happening. (which, personally for me, was what really elevated him from an interesting character to my poor little mew mew in my eyes.)

When JGY kneels down, WWX feels uncomfortable. He feels embarrassed on his behalf:

the same effect of inducing pity & sympathy for him is achieved in the show by somber music swelling in this scene, reaction shots, slow-mo, and a wide-shot of everyone in the temple as JGY kneels down to make him look especially small, while almost 2/3 of the shot is of the candles of the Guyanin temple. in the exposition scene when LXC kneels down to hear JGY out, the statue of Guanyin is between them. THE LOCATION OF ALL OF JGY TRAGIC EXPOSITIONS IS A GYANYIN TEMPLE! The temple of the bodhisattva of mercy who is considered to be the physical embodiment of compassion!

And the sympathetic reaction shots when he talks about JGS continue throughout the scene.

then we learn that he had to marry Qin Su because she was already pregnant and he didn’t want QS & JRS to have his and his mother’s fate and that the reason they had to rush things through like this and conceive a child was that JGS might have further caused problems for their marriage because he really disliked his son. and that if a political fall-out happened between Jin & the Qin clan, JGY would get the burn of it. (still a shitty act, but you can’t help but understand where he’s coming from & pity him), he goes on about his father kicking him down the stairs of Jinlintai on his birthday while celebrating JZX’s birthday, we learn about his childhood in the brothel, about JGS saying that he could save Meng Shi but he didn’t ‘cause she would be too much trouble, and that their son wasn’t worth mentioning, we see JGY & SMS deep connection, the show gives us some very good Xiao Shushu & A-Ling moments, & even though it’s been always clear & is especially clear during the whole Guanyin temple scene, we see truly see the depth of love, respect, and loyalty JGY has toward LXC.

We see him in the Villainous Friends chapter telling Xue Yang that he can vandalize people's shops and restaurants for no reason, only under the condition that he doesn't wear the Jin uniform. But it's immediately followed by the mention of the bruise on his head given to him by his stepmother because she can't vent her anger on her cheating husband, who JGY has to retrieve from brothels every night to ensure his safe stay in Jinlintai for another day. We see him massacre the He sect, and right after that, he goes to retrieve his father from the brothel and hears those awful things and you can't help but sympathize with him.

Because what is really important is that you understand Jin Guangyao. There are about 14 chapters in the book and 4 episodes in the show of JGY explaining himself while crying on the floor because it's less about "Jiggy eVIL" & more about look what the society who turned his back on him & his mother when they needed their help, and sneered at them when they tried to improve their situation, and never forgave JGY for being born has done to this man to make him do such horrendous deeds. (And his sword's name is Hensheng. Meaning "hate to be born". They made him never forgive himself for being born either.)

So by saying that X & Y has happened to JGY, and so what he does is for self-preservation, nobody's JUSTIFYING his genocides, & nobody's denying that JGY had a choice in everything he did. Even if his other option was to accept his place, sit down, shut up, and suffer in silence, NOT murdering a whole sect that includes children by doing experiments on them is the better option. The point is that it's not the point. JGY's atrocities are only means in the story to tell the cautionary tale of a classist, cruel society. The things that JGY has gone through cannot be erased from the conversations because "JGY EvIl. Periodt." The Narrative doesn't want the reader to do that! It's specifically structured to put the reason JGY's got to this point on the forefront every time he does a crime. The fight with NMJ's fierce corpse ends as quickly as it begins. The Climax of the story is mostly JGY's monologues. 14 chapters of monologues cannot be dismissed as JGY gaslighting LXC & shedding crocodile tears.

in a story that has Wei WuXian as a protagonist, and literally starts with the monster the society has made of him through rumors and has this theme going on through the rest of the story, especially with JC, and baseless accusations are the first thing that happens when JGY's secrets are out in the Lotus Pier, and then ends with society making a monster out of JGY after his death through rumors when Sect Leader Yao speculates that the statue's face is modeled after JGY himself (which WWX especially comments on), and in the tavern when people made such crude remarks that even those who were participating in the conversation felt uncomfortable, I think it's clear what and who the real villain is.

MXTX could have written people talking about literally any real atrocity that JGY has done, but instead, they talk about what he hasn’t done and read the worst out of his every action in life.

And actually, with everything that JGY has been through, he’s not even the worst case that could come out of his situation. He did have good intentions. For all his genocides, unlike Xue Yang, he didn't actually want to see the world burn. He did help the innocent common folk. He helped them during the sunshot campaign, and with the watchtowers, he fought against systematic corruption, and he treated everyone with respect. He rescued LXC and QS. We don’t know how many others he has personally saved. It's that the means he had to use to have the power to help the poor was incredibly dirty because he was playing an unfair game that was especially designed against him. (I'm not saying helping the poor was his only objective when he tried to gain his father's approval and a secure place in Jinlintai for himself. Though it's sad that he had to fight for these things at all.) The best he could honorably do was be NMJ's deputy general, which didn't save him from being bullied and people cleaning the cups they took from his hands. He knew that if he tried to help the innocent without having the political power to do that, he would end up like WWX. But what he didn’t know was that he would end up like that if he, unlike WWX, played by the rules of the game and compromised his morals anyway. There was no winning for people like them.

Dismissing the good that JGY has done, the real desire he had for helping the poor, and what he’s been through cheapens the character, cheapening JGY’s character to a one-dimensional Marvel villain, and dismissing the commentary that he represents on society as a whole is a disservice to the story. And that’s a crime cause the story is great.

his fall from grace, the heinous acts he had to commit to find himself the slightest bits of safety, security, and respect wouldn’t be that much of a tragedy if he didn’t want to be good and do good for people.

Then there is JGY's death and the framing of it. Here is a wonderful analysis by @sapphicdalliances of why his death wasn't justice and that was the point, how he died because of an act he didn't commit, and here are great analysis by @thatswhatsushesaid & @crithir about how his death is described as a gut-wrenching horrible scene framed through his horrified nephew & ward's eyes, both in the book and in the show, how it didn't bring the Nie brothers any closure either, and how through the lenses of LXC and JL, and by JC’s & WWX’s reaction we see his death as a tragedy.

His death is because of a dishonorable trick. His last act in life, pushing LXC away is an act of love and of forgiveness. In the CQL before that, he pushes Jin Ling out of danger, too.

As said in the aforementioned posts, after it, we don't see a victorious Nie Huaisang or Wei WuXian. In fact, neither of them is victorious.

WWX, and by extension, the narrative blames NHS for his scheming & risking innocent lives. WWX is especially appalled by NHS' treatment of Meng Shi's body. He points out that JGY, being a big liar with a considerable criminal record, will be forever accused of lying, no matter what. While he immediately after brings JGY's last genuine act toward LXC as proof that JGY couldn't have been lying.

In the CQL, he straight-up calls NHS the devil with the coldest tone he's ever had towards NHS.

NHS for his part doesn't seem victorious either.

Dare I say he even looks like despite years of scheming he was not ready for it when JGY pushes Shuoyue deeper inside his own chest. (Who would he be acting for at that moment? Nobody's looking at him. And he’s sweating!)

And I think there's a "no, he didn't" in his last "I don't know." To LXC (at least in the show) when he's insistently asked whether JGY was going to attack LXC or not and he insistently answers "I don't know". It's a confirmation without confirmation.

And then in, IMHO, one of the most beautiful and nuanced scenes, NHS finds A-Yao's hat, in the book, he bends down, picks it up, and quietly goes away (and that's the last we see of Nie Huaisang), in the show he wipes off the dust on it, and his hand finally gets bloodied, literally & metaphorically despite trying his best to not do his dirty work himself. And we get a flashback of A-Yao's childhood that I always assumed we're seeing through NHS because maybe JGY had told him that story. Not only does the order of the scene, combined with NHS' deep in thought look seem like it but also NHS cleans JGY's hat when in that memory A-Yao's mom tells him that he needs to take good care of his hat.

And that scene is especially beautiful because the show went out of its way to show their close relationship pre-time skip. And we see NHS keep A-Yao's principal by cleaning his hat when JGY himself is too dead to do that. Even when the reason for his death is NHS himself. And by NHS getting his hands bloodied while cleaning the hat, and staring at it with a deep, nuanced look, that combination of care & hatred is shown in that scene.

I think he feels empty. He's spent years after years planning this thing. It was his only drive. Now it's over. And it wasn't a grand, victorious moment. It just...happened. and it was something that needed to happen, in his eyes.

And he did love his san-ge for a long, long time before the betrayal came to light for him. And then he hated him for a long, long time. But at that moment with JGY's bloodied hat in his hand? I think that's the moment when love and hatred have both run their passionate course and they've finally reached each other in the middle and collided and ran out of strength and intensity and separate, clear meaning and they just take their exhausted leave together, leaving only a trace behind.

And most prominently we see a devastated LXC and JL. We see Jin Ling's flashback of when his Xiao Shushu gave him his spiritual puppy. We see him being the only one who could cheer JL up when he was down for days.

We see JL choosing to keep loving him despite everything.

His loss is felt and the memory of his good deeds keeps coming back in JL's narrative:

The Narrative doesn't just sympathize with him. The Narrative mourns him.

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evilhasnever · 9 months

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I am on record disliking "centrist" LXC jokes, because they have been disproven by canon analysis already in better essays than I can manage right now, but I also don't buy "I can fix him" jokes!

Rather than "I can fix him" syndrome, LXC's attitude (towards everyone: his brother! his friends! his uncle!) reads to me as "I want to do good and make the best of our circumstances (within my power)". That means, for example, encouraging Wangji to make friends but still following sect rules when it comes to punishment. It means supporting his brilliant friend's ambition and making sure his angry friend doesn't kill him first.

None of those things include fixing, because I don't think he is under any illusion that Clarity will fix NMJ - he'd have to change his way of thinking, first, and LXC canonically has given up on this or never even entertained the thought (as shownfor example when he does not argue further in front of NMJ's mulish responses about JGY's abuse in Jinlintai, or when he has to concede to NMJ and other sect leaders clamoring for the Wen slaughter).

As for JGY? He does not need fixing, and LXC is the first to recognize that. His goals are worthy and his methods, well... are often the only ones available to him. So what he needs from LXC is just support and understanding, and tbh JGY gives back as much and more than he gets (as shown in canon with the rebuilding of CR, being his confidant, etc.) So LXC does not try to change him, because he believes in the man he is now and in his overarching goals being in line with the greater good.

Basically, LXC does not try to change JGY because he believes him to be right, and he does not try to change NMJ because he knows he won't listen. So I don't get where this headcanon of LXC as the "I can fix him" man comes from when he is just a decent guy who helps the people he cares about, supports his little brother's unwise decisions and protects him from repercussions, provides palliative musical therapy to his friend who is bound to die regardless, and is emotionally present for the man he loves even when he cannot do anything else but offer him a handkerchief in times of struggle.

Basically, "I can fix him" implies a naivete and a rejection of the reality of their circumstances that is in fact not in line with Lan Xichen's canonical diplomatic skills and emotional intelligence.

#shhh shiome #I know it's just a joke but listen #it can bleed into characterization as naive optimism and impractical expectations or even himbo reads #bane of my existence tbh #lan xichen #I wrote this instead of getting ready for work so take with a grain of salt #jgy apologism #I guess

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poorlittleyaoyao · 1 year

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I actually laughed reading about how novel!wwx judges others but he is a little mean. Novel!wwx is actually an asshole! And I too am surprised that jl didn't even spare a thought for his auntie! There's a whole paragraph about how he wants to forgive jgy and wwx (very beautiful) but what about qs? I put in the 'wtf' box, where there's also lxc's treatment at the end of the novel where lwj 'leaves him be' because 'he can't do nothing to help him'. I know that lwj isn't the best at comforting people but his brother is in seclusion! In a similar situation he was 13 years ago!

I mean... at the end of the day, the reason Jin Ling never thinks about Qin Su is that this canon itself doesn't especially care about its handful of women. It's why Jin Ling thinks about his father but not his mother, it's why Wen Ning doesn't mention his sister outside of a story about how poor Wei Wuxian has suffered ever so much, and it's why Wei Wuxian doesn't think about either of the above people. And unfortunately, since every Doylist answer has Watsonian repercussions, it means that these guys come off as jerks who don't give a shit about their mothers and sisters and friends who cared so deeply for them. The drama makes an effort, but even it stumbles in the end, IMO.

(Having typed that all out, I wonder if that's a factor in my Jiggy brainworms: in a story full of guys who regularly forget their female family members, we've got this little guy whose driving motivation is honoring his mother. And yet, because we can't have nice things, he is simultaneously responsible for a good chunk of the chronicled violence against women in the series.)

LXC's treatment is part of the novel problem of it being Wangxian: The Book. Which honestly isn't even a problem, because that is exactly what the novel is supposed to be! It's not a gen fantasy epic that happens to contain romance; it is specifically a romance so people expect it to be Wangxian: The Book.

I was complaining awhile ago about Novelxian's blithe attitude towards his traumatic experiences (both those he experienced and those he inflicted), and one of the anons who messaged me posited that this was better for the story, because it meant Wangxian could have their romance unimpeded by baggage. I boggled for a bit because it was so diametrically opposed to my own preferences that it was completely alien to me. It was eye-opening, too, because once I thought about it, that anon's perspective is probably much closer to the average audience member's than mine is, and that's fine. Because this is, after all, the romance novel Wangxian: The Book!

Going to back to LXC, the problem is more that the surrounding plot and characters are actually really damn interesting in a way that doesn't always mesh with the desired romance tropes. Acknowledging the love interest's permanently traumatized elder brother or the ramifications of the power vacuum that just opened up following JGY's death and the adjacent scandals would REALLY bring down the vibe when it's time for Wangxian: The Book to send its couple off to their cottagecore happy-ever-after. So instead, our heroes just go "well, best not to mention it!" and look like assholes because, as with the deaths mentioned in the first paragraph, the story itself doesn't want to dwell on it.

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thepurplewombat · 5 months

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Character headcanon ask: LXC + JGY!

Okay, so it's finally cooled down enough that my computer has stopped making distressed noises whenever I turned it on, PLUS! we even have power for a few hours today, so here goes:

Lan Xichen

Sexuality Headcanon:

I'm gonna be honest with you, I don't give a lot of thought to characters' sexuality, at least not in terms of having headcanons for them. In my head, LXC is probably some flavor of bi, except that in practical terms, he's A-Yaosexual.

Gender Headcanon:

I think I've read one fic where LXC was actually a woman - not in the sense that he any flavor of trans, at least that was not the impression I got, he was biologically and emotionally a woman, but he was presenting male because of Political Reasons, and I thought that was quite interesting. But in general, I think he's a cis male.

A ship I have with said character:

Oh I don't know, I just don't know, who could I possibly ship the incomparable First Jade of Lan with - it's Jin Guangyao. Like, I'm not going to say that xiyao is canon and everyone who disagrees is wrong (even though they are) because everyone is allowed to be wrong on Beyonce's internet, but any version of Lan Xichen that isn't in love with Jin Guangyao is a Lan Xichen who is so wildly out of character to me that I just don't know what to do with him.

A BROTP I have with said character:

I think he'd get along really well with Jiang Cheng as friends - like, among the reasons that I don't think they work as romantic partners is that I think Lan Xichen would find being in a relationship with JC utterly exhausting. As a romantic partner, you feel somewhat responsible for managing your partner's moods, in a way that you don't necessarily feel the need to do in a friendship. I just think that the distance of a friendship would give him the opportunity to enjoy Jiang Cheng's cunty tendencies and temper, while not making him feel in any way responsible for managing Jiang Cheng's moods.

A NOTP I have with said character:

That being said, Jiang Cheng is not actually my NOTP for this character. I remain convinced that chengxiyao is a viable ship that just needs the right story to take off, and I'm sure that if I were to read a really good x!cheng fic, where Jin Guangyao is not demonised or erased, I would probably enjoy it.

No, my NOTP is Nie Mingjue. Mainly because I think he's an abusive jerkweed who reminds me of both my murderous ex and my late father (although to be fair to the Great Old One, he never tried to kill me) and I don't think that someone who is incapable of understanding that maybe other people have different priorities and points of view, is a good fit to be in a relationship with anyone who doesn't precisely share his values.

Oh and also Nie Huaisang. Just no. NOPE.

A random headcanon:

Not long after the end of canon, Lan Xichen disappears from his house of seclusion and is never seen again, because he's given the entire jianghu the middle finger and fucked off.

General Opinion over said character:

When I finished the book he was my favourite, and I was initially drawn into thinking more about Jin Guangyao because I was looking for stories where Lan Xichen has a happy ending, and a lot of the time, a happy ending for Lan Xicnen requires a happy ending for JGY as well. In the months since, he's been somewhat supplanted by JGY - it's not that I love him less, it's that I love JGY so much more (send help I am genuinely unwell about Jin Guangyao).

More general opinion - I think Lan Xichen should have the opportunity to go absolutely feral.

Jin Guangyao

My lovely boy, my sweet cheese, my rotten soldier, I love him so much.

Sexuality Headcanon:

I mean, canonically he loves both a man (LXC) and a woman (QS) so, bisexual?

I do think he has a complicated relationship with sex, because of his mother's profession and his father's...everything, but I think that like most of his traumas, he pushes it into a box and never ever thinks about it.

Gender Headcanon:

I think that when he was a small boy, his mother went on her knees every day and thanked all the gods and ancestors that he was a boy, because at that point she must have still hoped that JGS would come for them.

So I don't think that JGY has ever actually thought about his gender beyond 'thank the gods I wasn't born a girl'. Like, he could never allow himself to even consider anything other than being a man, because he was his mother's son, you know?

A ship I have with said character:

Xiyao. They're just so *clenches fist* I love them, your honor. Like, they just so obviously love each other - it's more obvious in CQL, but it's not exactly subtle in the novel either, and I just...my heart breaks for them and I love them so much.

I can also be convinced about Chengyao, because I think that Jiang Cheng and Jin Guangyao have got some things in common, and the ways in which they differ are very complementary.

A BROTP I have with said character:

I think that he and Wei Wuxian could have been great friends, if the stars had aligned properly.

A NOTP I have with said character:

Obviously it's a free internet and everyone can do what they want, but personally I can't ship my blorbo with someone who tried to murder him three times and hated him so much that even without knowing that JGY had killed him, he became a fierce corpse and escaped the grave to come after him. Just nope.

A random headcanon:

I don't think that JGY would have left the temple that night. I think he was genuinely trying, because at base he's an engine of survival, but honestly I think when push came to shove and he had to leave Lan Xichen and never see him again, I'm not sure he would have done it.

General Opinion over said character:

I love him. he's my favourite character in MDZS, and he's near the top of my list of all time favourite characters.

#Wombat answers asks #wishthefish #Jin Guangyao #my favourite son #meng yao #maybe he did commit some atrocities #but have you considered that I love him #Lan Xichen #LXC #My favourite son-in-law #best boy lan Xichen #a deeply fucked up but unfailingly kind individual #not a himbo #he just drank his Respect Meng Yao juice

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yunmeng-jiang · 9 months

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ok after thinking about it and reading a bunch of fic that involves this scenario, I think I've come to the conclusion that Nie Mingjue CANNOT be saved from going mad and dying by qi deviation in the canon setting (even in a canon divergence AU) unless he gives up his saber, which he would definitively not do as he sees that as a betrayal of his family's tradition. Even with two people playing Clarity for him on the regular (JGY's music only changes much later, after NMJ tries to kill him by kicking him down the stairs based on absolutely nothing but Bad Vibes and a fit of temper) he still burns all of Huaisang's things and becomes extremely violent and more and more unreasonable as time goes on. No one knows the truth about what's happening except LXC and JGY - he doesn't even tell Huaisang, who's going to have to deal with this later - and they're doing all they can to help, but they respect his decision to keep things private so they won't tell anyone either. That means no one is going to seek out someone like WWX or some other genius to get at the root cause of the thing. Probably the only person who even could do something about it would be Wen Qing, and NMJ hates the Wen so much that he'd never agree to that, even if this is in an AU where she survives because NMJ doesn't push to kill her and her entire family like he does in canon.

#nie mingjue #the untamed #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #cql #cheng qing ling #mxtx #mo xiang tong xiu #for real i don't see any way out of this #it sucks bc i would really like to see an au where he doesn't mentally deteriorate and die before the age of 35 or whatever #but i cannot think of a way to fix it without bending the lore around the sabers so much that it's unrecognizable

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truly-morgan · 9 months

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[The Lan headband]

XiCheng | Mo Dao Zu Shi Modern AU 03-04-2021

[#xicheng - modern]

What if Jiang Cheng knows that the Lans headband (modernised version of) is something important, but doesn't know to /which/ level it is important for them because Lan Xichen never told him (nor did lqr or any other lan). This is why he doesn't see anything wrong when lxc suggests he wear his (which is maybe more akin to a loose choker with a cloud pendant?) as a good luck charm and to help him feel calm his nerve at the next archery competition there families organised (including the llj and qgn family too).

jc is nervous to participate after a couple of years of not attending it, the pressure put on his shoulder by his mother to do better than wwx each time (and failing) being too much.

after years of not participating it is lxc who suggests he tries again, especially since now he doesn't always have his mother around to remind him to do better /all the time/.

So he accepts the suggestion of wearing lxh necklace since it has a weirdly calming effect on him, probably reminding him of lxh.

He casually arrives with lxh at his side, wearing the totally-not-a-choker very visibly around his neck. This causes various reactions from people around them.

Lwj: shoots a knowing look to his brother with a nod, probably knowing how his brother feels about jc

lqr: shocked that his nephew would let someone casually wear his "headband" like this, wondering if this is a declaration lxh is doing right here.

jfm & yzy: looking at each other, trying to check with each other if they remembered correctly what exactly this gesture /means/ from lxh sides. As jc something important to tell them?

nmj & jgy: both looking discreetly happy that their friend is /finally/ doing something and not just pining for the jc.

wwx: amused that lxh lets him wear his totally-not-a-choker the same way lwj lets him play with his headband (this probably cause lqr to nearly have a heart attack at the sudden information).

And all this time jc is clueless, stuck in a little bubble with lxh that is trying to reassure him that yes everything will be alright, they had been training together and he was doing really good when they were together. Plus they were here just to have some fun, he doesn't need to really try and compete against anyone else if he didn't want to.

It was only a couple of days after the competition (where he did pretty well for the first time in years) that nhs ask him about lxh-

necklace, finally telling him what it meant (knowing about it since lxh had explained it to him when he was younger). Pretty much that only family and their partner can touch it.

jc ends up a blushing mess, realising just now /how often/ lxh had let him touch it because he wanted to look at the cloud pattern on it or even let him /wear it/. He doesn't know what to do now that he even wore it /in front of lqr/.

of course, he's happy about it, because he may or may not be feeling more than friendship for lxh, but he still doesn't know what to do with something that sounded like a love confession, but an indirect one.

He asks him about it and only then does lxh properly confess to him, admitting he wasn't sure if he was feeling the same and that he was sorry for making jc uncomfortable about this. of course, jc has none of this apology, telling him that he isn't uncomfortable, but happy about it, confessing too at the same time.

They end up dating after this, jc being caught wearing his necklace more than once more because "it suits you and I really love seeing you wear it" managed to convince lxh a couple of times because he just loves seeing jc wearing it.

Original

#tweet archive #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #xicheng #lan xichen #jiang cheng #modern au #lan headband #fluff

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kikimochiiiii · 1 year

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My personal take on MDZS kins based on what I've seen (which is almost nothing)! Understand that this'll be very biased n uninformed, but it's just for fun and I cherish all kins! Please and thank you!💕

WWX: Fiercely protective over their homies/mother bear type; Live for the drama though, so they WILL pitch homies against each other; They will state that their opinion is ALWAYS right to assert dominance; They never feel silly enough; "What do you mean people don't have a bi panic every 20 seconds?"; The life of a party, for better or worse

LWJ: They are very accomplished and orderly; But ask them about that and they'll say that they hate how boring they are; They can recite all of their unrequited loves in detailed, dramatic stories; They have at least 1, if not multiple crushes where they hate the fact that they love them; once they hyperfixate on one thing, they'll never be able to tell you anything about anything else; Shy n sweet, we protecc

JC: "I HATE THAT I KIN THIS MAN, YOU DONT UNDERSTAND-"; Their family sucks so much and they absolutely deserve better; They always want affection but can't help but act grossed out by it; will fight WWX kinnies in a gas station parking lot; prayed to all the gods to be asexual because they hate hormones, but they couldn't be more thirsty; have killer fashion that makes everyone double-take; A fierce, chaotic beauty ppl don't forget

JYL: The mom friend; Is always the therapist/advisor/caretaker/friend/mom for everyone else; Girl, are you okay? You are overworked for real; Wishes they could be intimidating once in a while; LOVES ALL THE GIRLY FEMME AESTHETICS; "I'm so average TT TT" (is actually talented in so many areas wth); everyone is protective over them and they don't know why, but they like it💕💗

LXC: Oh my gosh, ARE YOU OKAY-; Have an emotional wall higher than Mt. Everest; The person with the most propriety; Perfectionism is their worst enemy; Have definitely dealt with toxic friends in their life, so please handle with care; the best listeners; Extremely artistic in some form or another; Are kind to all other kinnies, but will bloody take a bullet for JC kinnies on sight; No one shall ever know their music playlists...

NMJ: "I am who I am, and don't mess with me"; If people aren't genuine with them, they can't stand it; An open book at all times; Their face WILL show what they are feeling; They are just aiming to find a himbo or cute twink for their love partner (or both!); generally nice, but can whip out insanely painful insults, so don't test them; They are confident, and therefore, they are H O T

JGY: GOSH, WHY ARE THEY SO PRETTY??; Definitely were the reason for someone's bi or gay awakening; soft aesthetic e v e r y w h e r e; "A-Yao never did anything wrong!🥺"; Will 100% not snitch on you if you give them a favor or are just hot; Are all about optimizing their situation, if you catch my drift; They are the most loyal of loyal friends if they cherish you💗💕

NHS: "I was born to be petty."; They can recall everything they have a grudge against in worryingly great detail; They will exact revenge on you, so be nice; They have the absolute maddest make-up skills; Work in tandem with WWX kinnies to make chaos, but take a backseat more often; Either habe the highest standards or none at all with no in-between; Bring them to ALL of your sleepovers

WQ: Queen energy 24/7; "I fUCKING TOLD YOU SO-"; They are forever suffering from the incompetent, irresponsible people around them; They have dealt with creeps thirsting after them, and they all wound up missing, oops-; Will be a full-on bodyguard for JYL kinnies and MM kinnies on sight; They just hate men in general; Extremely smart and/or street smart

MM: Also constantly suffering from idiots around them; They are so pretty, but very modern n with the trend when it comes to fashion; They are so stable and sure in themselves, we love to see it; Definitely witnessed friends go through VERY cringe romantic relationships; Doesn't talk much in a group context, but if you start talking with them, they are an awesome friend💕💗; When protected by WQ kinnies, they'll insist that they didn't need up, but they'll secretly like it👀

WN: Classic shy and sweet TM; People were absolutely attracted to them before because they thought they fit a trope, and it was deeply upsetting to them; They are SO INDECISIVE; Their fear over making core decisions is immeasurable; They have an intense fear of emails; "Please don't perceive me..."; Can pop off when defending a friend, and it's very hot of them

XY: "Okay, but like, I'm just saying...a pocket knife would be good for self-defense because-"; They joke about concerning things in discord vcs at 3 am that everyone mutually chooses to ignore; Are adorably extroverted; "Omg you like candy too?! LETS BE BESTIES!!💕🎵"; Are oddly sweet considering they relate to Xue Yang; Definitely tried the goth look once, but they still looked like a cupcake; The hugging type of friend; Occasionally bratty for attention

SL: "Why do all these people lack common sense?"; Had 1 (one)(uno) crush and then never liked anyone ever again; Everyone calls their lifestyle dull, but they just say that they value consistency; You have to plan a meet-up with them 2 weeks in advance or else they will PANIK; Their form of love is helping you manage your finances; Are actually quite mature and wise once you get them talking

XXC: YOU ARE SO PURE, WHY ARE YOU ON THE INTERNET; Weirdly aged and ageless in personality; Also the mom friend, but they aren't burnt out, unlike JYL kinnies; Wear super cute, oversized sweaters, I don't make the rules; sweater paws HNNG; Sometimes a bit out of the loop, but they're doing their best; Jump around in a conversation; Found family is their absolute jam; An extreme empath, so they have to protect themselves from too much depressing stuff, like the news

Okay, that's it for now! I just picked out some of the MDZS people that stood out the most to me for now bc man, this is long, but lemme know if you want my take on any other MDZS character!

#mo dao zu shi #mdzs #wei wuxian #lan wangji #jiang cheng #jiang yanli #lan xichen #nie mingjue #jin guangyao #wen qing #wen ning #mian mian #xue yang #song lan #xiao xingchen #nie huaisang

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llycaons · 6 months

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ep49 (1/3): a shocking numbers of fans watched this scene where jgy cried a lot and fully swallowed his excuses. guys. guys.

oh wwx is annoyed as hell that jgy is dodging responsibility for everything he's done when he, wwx, never once denied his actions and bore the full weight of them and then some

more evidence for my 'jgy actively encourages lxc's crush even though he has no intention of ever reciprocating because it grants him power over him' hc!!!!!

oh jeex lxc looks like shit. I mean I guess he's had a rough couple of days. look at those eyes bags

lxc: I'm not your sworn brother anymore. jgy (realizing he's losing his grip on lxc): NOOOOO 😭😭😭😭😭

okay to be fair I'm sure there is some genuine grief for losing the friendship and camaraderie of the one person who has always vouched for him, saved his life, supported him, etc. lxc was a wonderful friend and a powerful, steadfast ally. wasted on jgy!

you can practically see the forehead vein popping here. I don't think an lxc who fully understands jgy would ever love him. if xiyao is happening in some fic, either jgy is lying or someone's being mischaracterized. not that social factors didn't play a role in the things jgy did, but if you ignore his sadistic and vengeful nature, his willingness to murder innocent people, his unrepentant manipulation and deceptive nature, you're losing a lot of his character. for him to be someone who doesn't hurt others, he'd have to be someone guaranteed safety and respect and a position from birth. but that's so antithetical to his role in canon it wouldn't be the same person anyway

huh. why hasn't jgy tried to harras lwj more? I guess he got what he wanted and beyond lwj sealing himself, there's not much a reaction jgy can provoke

WELL. pretty clear choices here. jgy you could have packed up and fled the country before trying to kill a bunch of people and kidnapping children

lxc: why were you so cruel and murderous??? dude?? jgy: I HAD NO CHOICE BRO 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺 you believe me right??? would it help if I did this 😭😭😭😭

compared to wwx's impassioned, rational, fair defenses of himself and the people he was trying to protect, this is so pathetic. wwx never denied what he did, never dodged responsibility. when he said he had no other choices, it was in defense of innocent people at risk of political persecution and mass murder, not in defense of killing people to maintain his own position, he apologized for the death of jxz and suffered his own death in retribution for even the best things he did

YOU COULD HAVE LEFT!!!! or idk, face up to the consequences of your actions

I am so so sorry to bring the marvel 'cinematic' universe into our beautiful liveblog today but this shot just screamed "Tony, you CHOSE to do that' to me

of course he ~nobly~ doesn't deny it ONCE IT'S ALREADY COME TO LIGHT. but he denied up until the breaking point because he's a slippery eel and it's impossible to get him to face any consequences for his actions!!! if I was lxc I would be exasperated to death too

NEAT FRAMING

ohhh this flashback is so skin-crawling. I really love how deathly pale the robes and jgy's face are. the red of the wedding robes and the decorations are so ominous and omnipresent, like something horrifying about to happen, like something inescapable. the music really adds to the eeriness of the scene

it always hurt so bad that qs was so excited for her wedding night. she was happy! she liked jgy a lot and always respected him and his mother! she was a good and kind and innocent person and she had no IDEA god I feel sick I hate him so much

jgy really never spared a single thought to qs's well-being. it was all about him, and his horror, and his choices, and his position, and the injustices enacted on him. self-centered to the very end. of course he didn't think he had a choice. he would never choose against his own self-interest no matter how many people he hurt. god, qin su should have lived. her suicide was such bullshit

oh my god SUCH bullshit. 'uwu but I worked so hard!' okay yeah I get it's a precarious political situation and the issue isn't even your fault but DUDE. you're placing your own power and ambition higher in importance than this woman's entire life. and you MUST have known you would have murdered any child you two had.

pretty sucky situation all around. shocking idea though. YOU COULD HAVE TOLD QIN SU

jgy truly goes through life as if it was a me-or-them battle for survival in every single situation. in his mind, whoever bore the burden here would be the one destroyed, and he never would choose his own destruction. and it does make sense based on his environment and upbringing. god, he's such a good villain. none of this at all excuses his actions ofc, but it's an extremely compelling and powerful motivator for a villain hell-bent on surviving, viewing every situation as battle to the death, and fully buying into being viewed as the victim of every scenario

another contrast to wwx! wwx hates being seen as someone who was hurt. he dislikes being viewed as weak or vulnerable in any way by his enemies (and often his allies), and the way he wins battle and arguments is though either his power or his own honesty. for someone who omits key information and lowkey manipulates many of his loved ones, his straightforward arguments are more often than not the complete truth

in case we needed a reminder of his active sadism at work. who gaf about his dad but those poor women were treated as murder weapons and then mass murdered themselves

oh I do not like this slap scene, and I'm glad lxc is horrified by it as well. the exposure of jgy's crimes has never retroactively justified the classism and oppression he fought against, nor does it grant permission to his social superiors to treat him like they're inherently better than him, such as with this slap

#cql re-rewatch #not to brag but this one is juicy

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annalacerda17 · 2 years

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I was looking for time travel fics on AO3 and was surprised to see how many fics have some character, usually WWX, time travel and "save" JGY from turning evil by being kind to him and telling him his father sucks and will never accept him, so give up and go be happy elsewhere. This take is so prevalent in fannon and it makes no damn sense.

Like, if kindness could prevent JGY from turning evil, cannon wouldn't have happened, because LXC exists and was always kind to JGY.

If some random person tells JGY his father will never accept him, he still wouldn't give up, because in cannon other sex workers at his mother's brothel said the same all his life, and cannonicaly, JGS had JGY thrown down the stairs of Jinlintai and JGY still didn't give up. It's not some stranger that'll convince him.

JGY is not as pitiful as he makes himself out to be. It's true that he was looked down on for a period of his life, but I think ppl miss the fact that he managed to become chief cultivator, he can't do that if is universally looked down on. He wasn't friendless or isolated, either: cannon shows clearly that he was bffs with XY, Su She worshipped the ground JGY walked on, LXC was always supportive of him, NHS trusted him before NMJ's death and even NMJ himself gave JGY many chances to change.

JGY wasn't forced into evil by society. He suffered injustices, it's true, but he was hardly the only character to have a sad past, nor was he the one with the saddest past. That would be WWX, and we know HE didn't turn evil because of it so no one else gets to use their sad backstory as an excuse for turning evil.

I don't think JGY became evil so much as he always was someone willing to do anything and cross any line to get what he wants, that is to say, power and prestige. He was always a manipulator who he weaponized his sad past to gain other ppl's sympathy. He was using and manipulating ppl since the beginning, it's not a behavior he learns gradually throughout the story. That's one of the reasons why, when JGY stans say he was good with kids, it makes no sense. JGY didn't care about kids, he was willing to kill his own son, his nephew whom he raised for 13 years, another 9 yr old child, and the juniors. He can charm and manipulate most ppl, including kids, but that doesn't mean he should be allowed near children, if anything, it's the opposite.

So, there is no world where JGY would be one of the good guys, because in peacetime his goal to be acknowledged as a Jin and reach the top is impossible. JGY would never settle for an average life, and he'd never settle for second place. He wants to be the most powerful, no compromises. JGY uses the war to climb the social ladder, and subsequently manufactures a number of tragedies that help him further climb the social ladder. He knows he's killing innocents, he even says so when he kills the Tingshan He sect, but he doesn't care, he doesn't feel remorse.

If someone travelled back in time and tried to recruit JGY to save the future, JGY would just use them for his own advantage. If they told him what happened in the future, he'd likely try to get them killed in order to be the only one who had the advantage of knowing the future, and keep them from interfering with his plans to reach the top.

#jgy #Jin Guangyao #mo dao zu shi #mdzs #grandmaster of demonic cultivation

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righteousinadversity · 2 years

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I read your post about the right thing not being easy and I concur. It got me thinking though. What do you think about LXC's response to the revelations at Guanyin?

Seclusion: Imo LXC going into seclusion felt more like he went into hiding from the fallout. It felt like self-pity leaving others to handle the consequences for his mistakes. However, I do make allowances for the sheer self-doubt and shock as well as seclusion being the Lan Go-To.

Self-pity: from what I've seen so far, LXC is entirely focused on the fact JGY lied to him and he doesn't know who to trust. This line of thinking, to me, seems to avoid the crux of the issue - his action and inaction. Yes, he was lied to. That's no on him. What is on him is his casual elitism and the assumptions that drive it. He doesn't evaluate core concepts like what it means to have authority, what is morality/righteousness/justice. And without going into these things, he cannot hope to change.

Let me know what you think!

About LXC, I have a lot of thoughts. First, I'd like to express, that I do not talk about the way he talked to WWX in the Guanyin Temple scene here. It's sort of a sore spot for me and is something that makes me very very angry about him. I'll probably rant about it soon, but I want to evaluate his actions on the general populace, especially the innocents.

Here's what we do know about his reaction after the events:

He attends the sealing ceremony of JGY and NMJ, though he seems very weary.

He subsequently goes into seclusion

LWJ wants to tell LXC about why JGY saved SiSi, in an attempt to assure LXC that while JGY was a terrible person, there were parts of him that weren't horrible (this is for LXC's benefit. Not in defence of JGY. I'll explain below.)

He is observed by WWX to be frail, and absent-minded while reporting the clan activities during the banquet.

Lan Wangji goes to talk with him, as LXC did during his own seclusion.

Well, there isn't a lot we can know from this about how Lan Xichen went on to act, what his motivations and thoughts were, or if he rectified himself. So most of this is speculation based on what we see of him.

First of all, the Lans and the Nies are far less culpable than the Jiangs or the Jins in the horrors we see. This is true for the Siege, and for everything after. However, their failure remains in the fact that they allowed such horror to happen while in significant positions of power.

NMJ accuses WQ of her inaction, but she was in absolutely no position to revolt. She was an orphan, who was brought up by WRH and held her position due to his favour. She was under the rule of a tyrant, and in no position to go against him when even the great sects only got their heads out of the sand when an entire sect was murdered. But both NMJ and LXC are in powerful positions, and they fought in a war to ensure that WRH's tyranny won't last. As people who have apparently strong codes of justice and morality, their actions and inactions are contemptible, especially so because they do not seem to see evil for what it is. Them allowing JGS to follow in WRH's footsteps makes one wonder: was the SunShot Campaign really about 'righteousness', or just revenge?

Lan Xichen is not a contemptible villain by any means. He is someone who will try to help others, as he does defend WQ in the beginning, and repays debts and expresses gratitude, as shown by him affording JGY the benefit of the doubt. Lan Xichen never actually hurt or schemed on others for his own gain. He separates grudges and gratitudes properly in his life. He never bears jealousy nor drowns in resentment. And of course, he never coveted others' power for his own benefit. Hence, he is already better than many of the assholes in the cultivation society.

However, as you have said, he has his flaws and faults. He, like the entire Lan Clan, really, hypocritically preach 'righteousness' but does not take any actual action to ensure that they 'shoulder the weight of morality'. The entire cultivation world fucked up with the Wens, and I have expressed my horror at that before. LXC as I have mentioned is slightly less culpable, but he does not go out of his way to do anything because he cares more about his relationship with NMJ than protecting the Wens. He is also not present at the siege, though undoubtedly as sect leader he would have been aware and also needed to give permission.

However, a similar situation again happens when he takes no action when another entire sect (Tingshan He, I believe?) is slaughtered down to the children by the Jins. Yes, this was almost a few months after WWX's death and LXC was probably taking care of LWJ, but again, he is in a position of power. What the hell was the point of the SunShot Campaign if they were just going to let things like that happen again? He and even NMJ, as leaders, do not investigate this. Especially as the leader of the sect that preaches righteousness... you can see how this does not seem good.

About casual elitism, yes, he, much like NMJ often display the same beliefs. They do not perceive from the eye of those that society tramples upon and hold onto the naive belief that if such people adhere to strong principles society will bend. Society never bends. They stand at the top of the pyramid and believes easily that it mustn't be so bad at the bottom. This is why he says WWX has changed. Because WWX, as a person, will adhere to society only as long as it is just; when it comes to societal niceties and moral righteousness, WWX will always always choose moral righteousness. The problem, of course, is that both LXC and NMJ often confuse the two, and think they go hand in hand. They are not terrible people for it; just sheltered and a little naive and never had to struggle for things.

However, this belief shapes his reaction to WWX, and believes him a threat enough to allow for a siege to be led on a group of innocents. I don't believe he didn't know. Maybe he thought cultivators were in the Burial Mounds as well, but, he knew there were civilians too. LWJ saw A-Yuan, saw uncle four, saw the Wens. He must have said something, but even LWJ realises in the Burial Mounds that no one will stand for the Wens.

But here's the thing: Inaction isn't as culpable as the crime perhaps, but when you're in a position of power, your inaction could mean the death of thousands. LXC either is naive enough to not know this or is willfully ignorant. His inactions allowed for a siege to be led on a village of innocents, and for thousands to be experimented on by JGS and JGY, and that fact cannot be changed.

But, this is also why I do believe guilt plays as much part in his seclusion as self-pity. I think he was finally confronted with his own decisions and the consequences of his actions and inactions. He is confronted with being lied to; but more importantly, he is confronted with the realisation that his judgement is compromised. His trust in JGY was betrayed, yes, but his trust in himself moreso. (This is why LWJ wants to tell him about SiSi; it is an attempt to assure him that while JGY was a ruthless murderer, the side of him that LXC saw and believed in wasn't non-existent.) He suddenly came face to face with every crime JGY committed, everything he in his bias to JGY turned blind eye to. That he, in his support of JGY, was even complicit in.

Again, we don't have much information on what he is contemplating in his seclusion. There is self-pity without a doubt, but I also believe there is self-condemnation. You see, LWJ and LXC were raised by a very rigid set of rules, with punishments for breaking them. LXC, much like LWJ, is confronted with the reality that the rules created by mortals can often lead to folly, that it might end up harming the innocents. That he and his clan failed to follow many of those rules, and even with the rules they followed, they failed to understand their true meaning and did nothing to prevent the massacre of innocents.

But! I think LXC, of all the characters, have the greatest potential to grow and understand, to repent and redeem himself. I have not much hope for even LQR, even as I write fics where LQR is more a tsundere-uncle than the hypocritical-stagnant man he often shows himself to be. But LXC as a person does try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I like to believe that he understands his own hypocrisy, and would want to do better. I think, that while his self-pity may cloud his mind, eventually, his good parts will win out because as I have said, he is no contemptible villain. I believe him worthy, and able of redemption, and while it would require introspection on his part, I don't believe it impossible.

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #lan xichen #lan xichen critical #lan huan #He I believe is more morally grey #Because of the fact that his sense of morality and his actions don't always align #Rant #This was... much longer than I originally planned #But so true #I have been having emotions lately #ask answered #ask

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plan-d-to-i · 3 years

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Hot take I never really see in the fandom, but Lan Jingyi is a bigger supporter of Wangxian than Lan Xichen. Lan Xichen just wants Lan Wangji to be happy whether that involves Wei Wuxian or not. He literally calls Wei Wuxian Lan Wangji's biggest mistake. Of course that's protective big brother mode being activated, but still seems like there is some resentment against Wei Wuxian. Lan Xichen also denounces Wei Wuxian at Nightless City. He tells Lan Wangji that Wei Wuxian essentially committed unforgiveable crimes and that Wei Wuxian is wrong like right after he finds out about Lan Wangji being in with Wei Wuxian. It's never stated if he was at the siege or not, but if he was after knowing Lan Wangji's feelings that's not exactly supportive. He'll always be civil to Wei Wuxian because he's like that with everyone, even people he hates. Also it would greatly upset Lan Wangji if his brother hated his husband. I don't think Lan Xichen hates Wei Wuxian, but that doesn't mean he likes him either.

Totally agree about JingYi!!! I love him so much.

LXC was not at the siege LQR was.

I honestly never gave that much thought to what LXC said to WWX by the temple pre fandom because he didn't let it affect his actions. To me clearly LXC's devotion is firstly to LWJ's safety, wellbeing and happiness. I've seen people say: how come LXC isn't blamed as much for what happened to WWX as jc hypocrites >:-/... LOL because LXC didn't grow up together with WWX?! LXC had JGY pouring poison into his ear about WWX's heart changing AND jc- the guy who was supposed to be closest to WWX- visits the Burial Mounds and comes back saying he's a traitor to the Clan, the YunmengJiang Clan will have nothing to do w him and he's the enemy of the entire cultivation world? What was he supposed to think? LXC spoke up for the Wens more than jc did and his home was burned down by them, his father died, and he was never helped by WQ and WN??!!? He didn't try to ban LWJ from bringing WWX into the Cloud Recessed to be healed in his second life, even after his identity was revealed; or from sheltering him and helping him and leaving with him. The guy has just gone through some harrowing days. He's found out his sworn brother killed his other sworn brother and made him into a jigsaw puzzle and did all this other terrible stuff. Now he's sealed his power and taken him as hostage. His little brother's boyfriend shows up and acts like he doesn't even know he's his little brother's boyfriend! LXC is holding on by a thread. Now none of this would be an excuse if he'd truly acted heinously BUT the reason I find his anger forgivable is that he didn't shut down communication. He doesn't tell WWX to go to hell and die or try to hit him etc. He actually explains everything and lays it out for him so WWX can finally understand what's happening. He calls him LWJ's only mistake, which may not be the nicest thing to hear but it makes sense in the context of LWJ protecting him ended in 33 strikes of the whip that kept him injured for three years...

"ZeWu-Jun had always been an image of grace and carried himself with a mild temperament, but when it came to his younger brother’s affairs, he could not help but lose his calm. Yet, upon closer inspection of Wei Wuxian’s reaction, his anger dissipated slightly, and asked again, “Was your memory…damaged?” (chapter 98)

I think people don't quite realize how impressive it is to still retain one's logic and relative calm in a situation like this. LXC is upset over something so personal: the wellbeing of his little brother. He could have so easily prioritized making himself feel better by just venting out all his frustrations and anger of these many years on WWX but instead he holds his anger in check and prioritizes his little brother's happiness by trying to clarify things and untangle any misunderstandings between WangXian:

Lan Xichen replied, “Whatever Wangji did then, if you can’t remember it yourself, then I’m afraid he would never bring it up in this lifetime, and you wouldn’t ask him either... Very well then, I shall tell you on his behalf.”

I don't get why fandom thinks he was so brutal?! He's not shown being mean again to WWX after things are finally settled between him and LWJ. He seemed to like and approve of WWX in his time studying in the cloud recesses. Now that the misunderstandings have been cleared up I can't see why it wouldn't revert to that. When the two bunnies are playing around him and LWJ, LXC says it's not bad to be boisterous, etc. Like jc's most heinous actions are perpetually excused w "omg it's sibling love" -EW no and LXC who actually shows a nice example of protectiveness and love gets dragged.

#this LXC thing is not aimed at u anon. I just wanted to clarify it a while ago 😊#mdzs #Lan Xichen #Lan Jingyi #Lan wangji #Wei Wuxian #mdzs meta

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pumpkinpaix · 3 years

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hi! so i was curious - and i apologize if it's disrespectful - but i've noticed how lan xichen calls lan wangji "wangji", his first name, and i was wondering, why doesn't wei wuxian call him just "zhan" instead of lan zhan? same with wei ying, unless the names are supposed to be said that way?

hi there anon! it’s not disrespectful at all. thank you for asking!

i just spent like half an hour trying to find @hunxi-guilai‘s post (I think it was hunxi?? maybe it was someone else god, i think i literally read it last year if I have made a mistake, please forgive me) on it to try and avoid reinventing the wheel, but i CANNOT alas, so I’ll try and be brief:

because mandarin is such a context-dependent language and all the characters that make up a name ALSO have meaning on their own, it’s confusing if you refer to people with a single character. you’ll notice that whenever people use names, they are always at least two syllables, even if only one character of the name is being used, such as with a’xian, or a’yao etc. the a’ prefix does two things: lowers register/formality and also removes ambiguity.

there are other diminutive forms as well: reduplication (xianxian) or the ‘er suffix (I don’t think we see this in mdzs at all, but for jiang cheng, you might see “cheng’er”), but again, there’s no situation where you would refer to someone by a single character (EXCEPT!!! apparently in some classical chinese forms, which i SWEAR i remember hunxi writing about, but i cannot find it!! there is one (1) instance of this in CQL, which you can see in wwx’s invitation to jyl’s wedding, where he’s referred to as just ‘ying’ -- but this is an exception and is also no longer in practice.)

so basically, if a name is two characters, you can say it alone if your relationship to that person is familiar enough to allow for first-name only address: Wangji, Xichen, Mingjue, Huaisang etc. BUT if the name is only one character, you must include the family name OR indicate in some other way that the name is a name. So: lan zhan, a’zhan, zhan’er, zhanzhan etc. but never just “zhan”. you’ll note that this holds true even for characters whose names are only one character: a’qing, a’tong, a’ding etc.

a note: diminutives are quite familiar, so I would be careful with these. they’re largely used between close friends (lxc calling jgy “a’yao”), family (jyl calling jc “a’cheng”), or to a child (jyl calling wwx “xianxian” when he’s pretending to be a child).

hope that helps!

(ko-fi)

#im actually really annoyed i can't find this post alskdfjls #this is a mess but i hope it helped you anon #mdzs #the untamed #names #mine #mymeta #er??#something like that #Anonymous #asks and replies

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xiyao-feels · 2 years

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thoughts on whether jgy met nhs for the first time during or after sunshot?

Just based off the timeline, I'm inclined to say it's certainly possible that it was during Sunshot, but it's likelier that it happened post-Sunshot.

So I'm assuming that if MY met NHS during Sunshot, it was while he was NMJ's deputy; it seems rather unlikely otherwise. And as I discussed here, I'm inclined to think MY was NMJ's deputy for around two to three months, starting around three months into the war. So the question becomes, what do we know about NHS' location during that period of time?

And the answer is...we know something! It's not exactly conclusive but it is something. On the same visit where LXC tells MY about the opportunity in Langya, NMJ gives him NHS' sabre to take back to NHS. (Indeed, bringing LXC NHS' sabre seems to be the reason he's there to overhear LXC and MY's conversation in the first place.) So:

He put the other saber in his hand onto the table. Lan XiChen smiled as he saw it, “HuaiSang’s saber?”

Nie MingJue, “Even though he’s safe there with you, he shouldn’t neglect his studies either. Tell others to supervise him when they’re free. Next time we meet, I’ll examine his saber and heart scriptures.”

Lan XiChen took Nie HuaiSang’s saber into his qiankun sleeve, “HuaiSang has been using the excuse that he left his saber at home. Now he will have no excuses for lazing around.”

(ER, ch 48)

And given that we know from earlier in the chapter that LXC is frequently out travelling and helping people while LQR has been staying and defending Gusu, it seems like this means that NHS is staying in Gusu at present. He's certainly not hanging around Hejian in a way that would mean MY could easily meet him! But that raises two questions, namely, how long has NHS been in Gusu, and, where was he before Gusu?

Starting with the second question, I'm inclined to think he was at the Unclean Realm: he doesn't actually have anything to contribute to the war effort, Hejian is described as not having "any space for maids and servants at all" in a way he'd probably find very unpleasant, and frankly I think NMJ would want to keep him safe, given what we see of their relationship in general and especially given that—since he sends him to Gusu to keep him safe—NMJ is clearly placing NHS where he'll be safe instead of making him stay with him or fight at the front. There's no reason for him to have NHS at Hejian for a few weeks or months before sending him to safety when he could just have him safe the whole time. (There's also the fact that LXC says NHS has been saying he left his sabre at home, not at Hejian, but this is a minor factor.)

However, just because he wasn't at Hejian doesn't /necessarily/ mean MY never met him. The fact that NMJ has NHS' sabre with him suggests to me that NMJ has been to the Unclean Realm at least once since NHS left. This isn't strictly speaking necessary—it's not impossible that there was someone he thought he could entrust NHS' sabre to to bring it to Hejian but who he couldn't spare to send to Gusu or whatever—but there isn't really any indication of this in the text, and while I acknowledge this is extremely subjective, to me what feels likeliest is that NMJ himself retrieved it while at the Unclean Realm for some reason. And given then that he had reason to return to the UR, it seems reasonable to think he might have needed to return more than once, if he had duties that needed seeing to or organizing or contributions to the war to organize or something.

Of course this assumes that NHS left for Gusu /after/ the war started and NMJ started fighting at Hejian, but I'm inclined to think so for a couple of reasons. First, as you yourself pointed out to me when I went ??? about the timeline at you, they have to take back Gusu and make sure everything is safe first, and that would of course have happened after Sunshot started. Second, if that were the case then by my reckoning of how long MY spent as NMJ's deputy, we're about five to six months into Sunshot at this point, and I just don't believe that NMJ would let NHS get away with not having his sabre for that long, nor do I think the tone of his and LXC's exchange fits that timeline. Although I acknowledge this is extremely subjective, imo the tone of their exchange fits better with NHS not having has his sabre for maybe a month, maybe two at the most.

This being the case, it seems possible that NHS was still at the Unclean Realm during part of MY's time as NMJ's deputy, and possible that NMJ visited the Unclean Realm during that time. (I do at least think that based on what we see about how they operate, it's fairly likely that if NMJ visited the Unclean Realm while MY was his deputy then he'd have brought MY with him.) And if those two things happened it does honestly seem quite possible that MY would have met NHS.

That said while I've tried to extrapolate as best I can from the text, this is all built on speculation on speculation, and the best I can get is a max two month window where NHS might have been at the Unclean Realm during MY's time as deputy, at which point it depends almost entirely on whether NMJ happened to return to the UR during this time...

...and it's also worth noting that WWX doesn't make any reference to NMJ returning to the UR during this time. I don't actually think this is conclusive evidence against it, because though WWX is clearly able to report on things that happen over longer periods of time as well as report more directly on individual events he's also clearly not living through events in real-time and we know we don't see everything that happens during the period covered by the Empathy flashbacks—even everything plot-relevant or relevant to NMJ and JGY's relationship: we don't see anything from, for example, Xue Yang's trial. But it's still true that WWX doesn't actually mention or even suggest that NMJ did return to the UR at some point during this period, and while that doesn't rule it out "not explicitly contradicted by the text" is not great grounds to build a theory on.

Timeline analysis aside, it's also worth taking a look at what we do see of NHS and JGY's relationship, and seeing if we can infer anything from that. Unfortunately, the evidence is inconclusive here too. I was surprised to realize it, but I think the earliest we see them together, chronologically, is in the scene right before JGY starts playing Clarity for NMJ, when NMJ is furious about NHS' fans. By this point NHS and JGY have clearly long since settled comfortably into a dynamic of JGY wildly indulging NHS, as he seems to enjoy doing for everyone he cares about; he's sent him fans, he intervenes to protect NHS from NMJ's temper (and the description of NHS' reaction seems in line with this being something that's happened before), NHS not only has an expectation of being indulged but is calling him san-ge ("Brother, what song? Can I listen?") and refers to a gift JGY gave him "last time", etc. (ER, ch 49). And this is, what, somewhere between two and three years since NMJ and JGY became sworn brothers? So it's no surprise that JGY and NHS have a well-established dynamic with each other.

On the flip side, while you could argue that the lack of any sign of interaction at the Phoenix Mountain Hunt suggests that they don't have much of a relationship at this point, it's not particularly strong evidence (JGY is very busy, and it's suggested that NHS is probably going to "stroll around Phoenix Mountain, enjoying the view" rather than joining in the hunt, which is what JGY is handling; nor is it definitely stated that they don't interact, we just don't see any mention of it), and of course it's totally plausible that they wouldn't have a strong relationship at this point even if they had met briefly before Sunshot.

We could ask whether NHS is the kind of character who would have been a dick about JGY's background if they'd met before JGY was recognized and taken into the Jin. But while that's not strictly speaking impossible, I don't actually think in this case it's likely? Imo the way JGY treats NHS suggests that NHS falls into the rarefied category of "wasn't ever a dick about JGY's mom" (until, of course, he was, in the very worst of ways), and we know it's not like that prejudice disappeared completely when he was recognized as Jin Guangyao, however much lightened it also very much was—if NHS could manage not to be completely terrible about MS and JGY's background after this, it doesn't actually seem that much if a stretch to believe he wouldn't be completely terrible upon being introduced to his beloved and respected older brother's respected new deputy. Moreover, we see NHS show a certain disregard for what you might call the importance of propriety—see just for one example his easy admission of his lack of cultivation skill and interest in WWX's idea of demonic cultivation during the lectures at Gusu—in a way that I think feels concordant with, for example, him not being the kind of person who feels the need to clean his fingers because the son of a prostitute handed him his teacup.

(Which is not to say, to be clear, that NHS would have seen him as an equal—he absolutely wouldn't have; he's his brother's subordinate. And I can totally see him behaving in rude or inappropriate ways, or accidentally making MY's life more difficult, or whatever. But it would be more in ways that are extremely self-centered and I'm-above-all-my-brother's-subordinates than ways that are specifically targeted at MY as being extraordinarily low—things like "asking intrusive questions" or "behaving thoughtlessly" or "pleading with MY to tell NMJ that NHS was totally training with his sabre, and then not getting MY into huge amounts of trouble when he doesn't", say. And this itself would be such an extraordinary step up from how people usually treat MY it would be worthy of unusual affection in and of itself.)

Basically everything I consider about their relationship is like this. For example, in the temple JGY reassures LXC that "You know how I’ve always been towards HuaiSang. When the time comes, I’ll definitely let you two leave without harm" (ER ch 100). The "always" might suggest that they only had a relationship after JGY was recognized, but only if you really really press the point. Or, JGY clearly doesn't consider NHS a threat: might this be more likely if he'd never met NHS as his brother's subordinate? On the other hand, NHS has never been exactly threatening, and if NHS treated him relatively well at that point maybe that would have helped keep him from considering NHS as a threat—etc. Honestly, I think from what we see of their relationship it's very hard to tell if NHS ever met JGY before he was recognized by the Jin or not, and while I think this is in part due to how brief any such meeting would have been, it's still honestly to his credit; it's very much not true of most of the people JGY knows, even including e.g. SMS and NMJ.

There is certainly an argument that his approach to JGY suggests that he views JGY as NMJ's subordinate but unfortunately a) I loathe what NHS does to JGY too strongly to properly evaluate it b) even if we do accept this, he could certainly have picked it up from any combination of his knowledge of JGY's former position, NMJ's own tendency to approach JGY in this light, and simple general classism.

Thematically....I think it comes out about the same either way: JGY can't escape his background, because society is fucking determined to break him and keep him in that fucking box. It does hit slightly differently if NHS met him before he was accepted into the Jin, I think, but they both work well with the themes and I don't think you can use that to make a judgement call here, or at least I can't. Tbh, I'm tired and I could be talking out of my ass, but I feel like you could make the argument that the ambiguity itself is thematically relevant. Did NHS meet MY before he was accepted into the Jin, and treat him decently despite his background? It doesn't matter: look at what he ends up doing with that background later on, when it's what he wants to do.

I do feel fairly certain that if they did meet during Sunshot, they couldn't have known each other long, or spent much time together. And if I'm just judging off the timeline, it seems likeliest that they met after Sunshot. But honestly, I really don't know.

#more than one tag could contain #ironically given the sender of this ask #I consulted heavily with fincalinde on the matter of the timeline and NHS-location implied by NHS' sabre #and the exchange NMJ and LXC have about it #as ever they were very helpful and very clarifying #any errors I subsequently introduced through my attempted analysis are entirely my own #I will add—#'I like it better' is not analysis #but given the inconclusive nature of the evidence #I'll add that I do actually like it better if they meet briefly during Sunshot #though I may have been influenced on this matter #by a certain excellent fic

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fincalinde · 3 years

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☕ any fic or meta that assumes jgy views lxc derisively/contemptuously or sees him as stupid/silly/incompetent in any way are inherently profoundly ooc, even if they also have him being affectionate/loving to lxc

Bold words!

I broadly agree with this opinion but I think it's helpful to look at why this kind of thing crops up. Ultimately the error is not simply due to misreading the source material, but is also the result of well-meaning attempts to replicate what is there in canon.

So two things are established in canon (by 'canon' I mean MDZS but I think this does also apply to CQL): JGY is exceptionally competent but lacks power and agency, and LXC is both privileged and kind. Basically: LXC means well, and JGY seethes with disguised resentment.

I can see how someone who is perhaps not experienced with close reading might leap to conclusions along the lines of: JGY's fear of everyone and his hatred and resentment is essentially the same as feeling contempt for everyone; LXC, because he is kept in the dark about some of JGY's actions, is therefore not an exception to this contempt even if it also comes packaged with love and affection.

The problem is that firstly, conflating JGY's fear and resentment with 'contempt' is incorrect. JGY is capable of contempt but it's not his driving emotion and it's certainly not universal; a close read doesn't turn up many examples of him expressing contempt, or even many hints that he's suppressing contempt. Anger, and fear, and even cruelty, yes. Contempt or derision? Infrequent at best, and generally not directed at his loved ones.

Secondly, even if JGY did feel contempt towards everyone he encounters, LXC is an exception. LXC is always an exception. I'm not going to get into a debate about what 'harm' means, except to say that what really matters here is what JGY intends to communicate. @confusion-and-more has made the excellent point that a good way of conceptualising what JGY is communicating when he says he has never thought of harming LXC is that he has never and would never turn on LXC, and I think that's a good summation.

So yes, writing JGY thinking of LXC with contempt or derision is illustrative of a misreading of the text and I don't have much to say in terms of how fic or meta of that type is executed because the premise is not grounded in the source material.

In terms of JGY simply seeing LXC as stupid/silly/incompetent, I think that is coming from a slightly different place and that's where we have not only a misreading but also a failure of execution.

The misreading as far as I can tell begins as reasonable extrapolation: JGY has lived a difficult life and is supremely competent with domestic tasks, and LXC has lived a difficult but privileged life and is therefore inexperienced with domestic tasks. What happens is this is then stretched far beyond anything canon can support, and LXC is framed as inherently naive rather than simply inexperienced in this particular area. The laundry thing is cute and humorous, but the man is not constantly smashing guqins because he can't control his strength (though I would pay to see that fanart).

Critically, there is no evidence JGY considers LXC incompetent or incapable of acquiring these practical skills. There is also no evidence that JGY connects LXC's lack of these skills to any inherent incompetence or naiveté. He accuses LXC of naiveté once to my recollection, at the most heated moment possible during Guanyin, specifically in relation to LXC trying to come up with off the cuff solutions to insoluble problems JGY has had far more time to grapple with. It's in the most challenging and stressful context possible, and not in relation to LXC's ability to wash clothes. Reading LXC's inexperience in one specific area as evidence that he is incompetent or silly or naive is completely at odds with the way he comports himself throughout the rest of canon and the way JGY responds to him—with a little reminder, also, that the laundry titbit is word of god and not even part of the text itself.

However, I do still want to make that distinction about interpretation vs. execution. Having speculated about why these misinterpretations occur, I might as well comment on pitfalls when attempting to write Xiyao. And it really is a pitfall and writing is hard! I think (based on the considerations I put into my own writing) there is this desire to portray their relationship as affectionate and playful and lived-in, which is absolutely in line with their canon interactions. But how to do this? Well, naive rich boy being cutely incompetent at an ordinary task while the streetwise poor kid lovingly assists and maybe judges them a little bit is a great trope, and on the surface it seems like it matches really well to that Word of God laundry factoid. So it's easy to fall into writing Xiyao into a pre-existing popular framework and lose sight of whether it is actually consistent with canon. It's especially easy with this particular canon, where one of the core themes is 'nuance exists'—a theme that is not a comfortable match with fandom's tendency towards absolutism.

Essentially the issue is that traits or behaviours these characters display on one or two occasions in very specific contexts are being erroneously extrapolated to draw sweeping conclusions about core character traits. This happens even when the rest of the available evidence in canon contradicts the conclusions. Coupled with the difficulty in executing the nuanced, layered relationship we see in canon when writing fic, it's not surprising that this type of mischaracterisation is prevalent.

#ask #paledreamsblackmoths #roquen meta

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