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laurasimonsdaughter · 2 years

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A wild (mother) goose chase for a lost fairy tale

In august 2020 Forbes published an article about how writer and illustrator Pete Jordi Wood had uncovered a “charming gay fairytale” that “has been lost for 200 years”. In particular a story where a sailor wins the hand in marriage of a handsome prince. Wood is quoted as calling it an “unbelievably and fabulously gay” plot, and: “an ancient tale with a positive portrayal, of a guy who can be read as gay or asexual, but certainly queer”.

Obviously I was wild to read it, but sadly Wood’s adaptation of the fairy tale had been published as a limited edition children’s book and virtual exhibition that I could not access. Even more disheartening, the folklore sources were not named on his website, and his research was only available in a limited edition essay collection and zine that I would have to buy.

To make matters worse, the Forbes article said that Wood had translated variations of the story from Danish, German and Frisian. That was absolutely too close to home for me not to go looking for it! Except I had very little to go on, because again, Forbes didn’t give sources.

The article said only this:

Wood called the story “The Dog And The Sailor”

The protagonist is an adventurous sailor with an overprotective mother who defeats a beautiful evil witch and wins the hand in marriage of a handsome prince.

Wood found it in the Stith Thompson’s six-volume Motif-Index of Folk-Literature under a tale type called “The Dog and the Sea” which existed in multiple languages (Danish, German, Frisian and others), but not in English.

It was first written down in the 1800’s.

I could find only one mention online with more information, on the Simmons University website:

“Originally a Danish folktale documented by the folklorists Nikolaj Christensen and Jens Kamp, this story has been translated into English for the first time by Pete Jordi Wood.”

The consequence of all this is that I have been hunting for this fairy tale for a very long time and with the help of two amazing Danish followers and a lot of frantic internet searches, I’m finally convinced that I have! So, if you want to follow me into my obsession, you can find it all under the readmore.

Of course the first thing I did was try to find this tale type “The Dog and the Sea” in the Stith Thompson Motif-Index, but it was a dead end. I couldn’t find any fairy tale called “The Dog and the Sea” or “The Dog and the Sailor” anywhere. What I was able to find was a podcast called “There’s a Story for That” that gave a recap and review of Wood’s “The Dog and the Sailor”. So now at least I knew the full outline of the story:

A beautiful, evil witch curses a faraway tropical kingdom, charming everyone into submission, transforming them into animals and sinking the kingdom to the bottom of the ocean.

An English boy called Ruan wants to become a sailor and his protective mother eventually lets him go after he fails at being a tailor.

She gives him her life savings, a medical balm and a dagger.

Ruan joins a sailing crew, shipwrecks in a storm and washes up on the shores of France.

When his money runs out he gets so desperate that he contemplates walking into the sea, but at that moment a curly haired dog emerges from the waves and offers to help him. He fills Ruan’s purse with money and instructs him to pay double for everything he buys.

When he has spent all the money Ruan returns to the dog, gets a thousand gold pieces and is instructed to get a ship and a crew.

They sail off, but the sea witch sends a storm dragon to sink them. The dog defeats the dragon while the crew hides below deck.

They find the dog grievously wounded, but Ruan heals him with his mother’s balm.

The dog tells Ruan to go out in a row boat and jump into the sea, much to the terror of the crew.

Ruan sinks to the sunken kingdom unharmed and the dog leads Ruan to the town, where a beautiful woman (the witch) comes to meet him.

She promises him half of her kingdom if he’ll be her spouse. Ruan refuses and stabs her to death with the dagger. She explodes into dust, leaving behind only a belt with silver keys.

Ruan enters the castle and the dog is already inside to lead him to the dungeon, where they find a caged lion.

The dog instructs Ruan to cut off his head and tail and swap their places. This turns the lion into an old man, the king.

The king praises Ruan for being the only person who managed to resist the witch. All the animals in the castle turn human, including the dog, who is the king’s son.

The king suggests Ruan and his son rule the kingdom together. Ruan wants to accept, but feels he has to return to his mother. So the king gives him a ship full of gold instead. By then the kingdom has risen to the surface again.

Ruan sails back to his mother, who praises him, but tells him to go back to marry his prince.

He returns and marries the handsome prince.

The next step was looking at the mentioned authors, I was lucky enough to come across a book by Stephen Badman, who had translated a large selection of the fairy tales Jens Kamp published in 1879 and 1891 and published them in 2016 under the title “Folk and Fairy Tales from Denmark – Stories collected by Jens Kamp”. I couldn’t be sure that the right story was in there, but it was! The book included a story called David Cotterson (David Husmandssøn), which was clearly Wood’s source, but did have notable differences:

The witch and the kingdom are never mentioned in the beginning.

The hero is called David, his nationality is not given, he has two parents and no parting gifts are mentioned.

He shipwrecks and washes up on the coast of England.

The helpful dog is described as “large, black and shaggy”.

The dog gives David first five hundred ducats, then a thousand ducats, and the third time two thousand ducats and the assignment to have a ship built.

Again the crew hides from a storm and the dog gets injured, but the dog gives David a flask of healing oil to cure him with. It is never said that the witch causes the storm.

The dog warns David explicitly that he will meet a beautiful woman near a golden castle, who would attempt to seduce him, but that if he gives her as much as a kiss all will be lost.

He gives David a sword an instructs him to cut her down, take her keys, and go to the castle where he will be waiting for him.

As soon as he kills the woman he hears his crew shout, because suddenly the land has risen to the surface again.

Only now it is revealed that the woman was an evil witch who had sent the land to the bottom of the sea.

Once transformed back into humans, the dog and lion explain that the evil witch had been the king’s second wife.

The king offers David half the kingdom as a reward, but David wants to go home, so they fill his ship with treasure instead.

David says goodbye to the prince and the king, sails home to England, sells his ship, shares the riches with his crew, returns to his overjoyed parents and settles down with them to live a long, happy life.

I personally really enjoy this folktale. It’s fun and quite unusual. I’ve posted a more complete summary here for extra context. Also, Badman’s translations are very pleasant to read, I really recommend buying this book. Now I’ve read his source, I’m inclined to agree with one part of Wood’s claims, that you could read it as asexual. It’s pretty rare to find a fairy tale like this that doesn’t end in a wedding. But the fact that this Danish tale doesn’t end in a marriage, unlike Wood’s adaptation, does rather dampen the “lost gay fairy tale” claim.

But there are other versions of this story! I thought it might possible that one of the stories might have ended with “rule side by side with my son”, which really would be very easy to read as a “gay marriage without calling it a marriage”. So, I wanted to see if Nikolaj Christensen had also collected a variant. Sadly, Christensen’s work is even more obscure than Kamp’s outside Scandinavia. Again, Stephen Badman has translated some of them, but I had no idea what the folktale would be called and I couldn’t exactly justify buying several books just in the hope that it would be in there.

As far as I could tell, there had been only one complete collection of Christensen’s work: Folkeeventyr fra Kær herred (Folk tales from Kær Herred), by Nikolaj Christensen, published by Laurits Bødker with Akademisk forlag; København (1963-67). The index is available online and it seemed to me that “Matrosen og kongen” (The sailor and the king) or “Et sømandsæventyr” (A sailor tale) had definite potential to be the story I was looking for.

So, I decided to ask my Tumblr dash for Danish help. And let me tell you, the Danes delivered. @violetdesolation messaged me that they had found the book in their university library and kindly offered to send me some scans. They found both “Matrosen og kongen” and “Et sømandsæventyr” for me, but noticed that the book they got didn’t include all the folktales in the index I found. We both looked for a dog that turned into a prince, but found nothing.

But by then a second helpful Dane had gotten their hands on the book and this time it was the complete version! They kindly offered to skim the whole thing for me and just to be sure I gave a whole list of story elements to look out for. And that is how we uncovered that “Et sømandsæventyr” (A sailor tale) was actually the story I was looking for! Only it was just different enough from “David Husmandssøn” that I hadn’t noticed! In this version the protagonist was Dutch instead of English and in the end it never even clearly says that the dog turns into a prince! But it was definitely a variant of the same story. It has many similarities with Kemp’s version, but a few key differences:

The protagonist is called Johan, only his father is mentioned, and they are said to be Dutch.

He shipwrecks and washes up in France, not England.

Johan actually tries to drown himself.

The talking dog is specifically said to be a poodle.

There are a lot of details missing, like the description of the storm that injures the dog or the specific method to transform the lion back into a human.

The witch is described merely as “beautiful” and while she does suggest marriage to Johan it is never said that no one else could resist her or that many have tried.

While the dog does say he is a transformed prince, the story never states that he becomes human again (hence why Violetdesolation and I didn’t find the story on first glance).

This king does not speak and this witch is not revealed to be his second wife.

As a reward Johan may choose between becoming a minister in the saved kingdom’s government or to leave with as much gold as he can carry, he chooses the gold and goes home, but his father is not mentioned again.

If you want to read the full story, you can! You can find the scans of the Danish text that the kind @violetdesolation provided here, and a full English translation can be found here, courtesy of the second Danish folklore sleuth, who preferred to stay anonymous. I also want to give a big shout-out to @ymfingsteadilyon who also offered to get the book from their library.

So now I had confirmation that this was indeed a Danish fairy tale first recorded in the 1800’s, that, while sadly lacking a gay wedding, did definitely invite being read through a queer lens. However, the article had claimed there was also a German and a Frisian version. Which probably meant there was also a Dutch version and I was determined to find it (and see if it ended in marriage).

It was at this point that I finally finally found the tale type with both “dog” and “sea” in it. The correct name wasn’t “The Dog and the Sea”, it was “The Dog in the Sea”, ATU type 540. To my intense frustration the most complete online ATU index had no examples in that category whatsoever, but at least I knew it existed.

And now I knew the correct name for the tale type, I found this. A German fairy tale encyclopedia from 1990 (the online version was behind a paywall, but I managed to find the book: Enzyklopädie des Märchens, Walter de Gruyter & Co, 1988/1990, ISBN 978-3-11-011763-9) that had a whole entry on this tale type including sources. My German was just good enough to understand these things:

This really was the correct tale type for both Christensen’s and Kamp’s stories and a summary was indeed given in Aarne and Thomson’s folklore classifications.

They presumed that Christensen’s version from 1855 was the oldest.

There were also Swedish and Finnish versions, but these deviated rather a lot from the Danish ones.

There was possibly also a Russian version that might fit this type.

There was also a Dutch version from a publication from 1900/1901.

So, what was this Dutch version they wrote of? The source given was “Huizenga-Onnekes, E. J.: Groninger volksvertellingen 1. Groningen 21958, 60-64; Vk. Tijdschrift voor nederlandsche folklore 13 (1900/1901) 200-202;”, but luckily I didn’t need to go looking for it. Because with the correct tale type I could find it in the Dutch folktale database.

And while it is correct that this story was first published in Dutch the 1900’s, the written source it was based on is from 1804. Which makes the Dutch version the oldest traceable source of this piece of oral folklore! Possibly explaining why Christensen’s version has a Dutch protagonist and why Kamp’s version is the most elaborate, being the most recent one. Because the Dutch version is far shorter and far less interesting:

The protagonist is a skipper who wrecks his ship and washes ashore in great misery.

A black dog comes up to him and offers help, which the skipper accepts despite fearing the dog is the devil.

When the ship is built the dog stays with the skipper so he can pay for everything, including a crew and provisions.

As they sail the dog keeps warning when there is to be a storm. First one that lasts half a day, then three days, then a week.

At last they reach a shore (not underwater) with a golden castle and the dog says it is his father’s castle.

The dog instructs the skipper to spend three nights in the castle and to be silent no matter how bad it gets.

The castle turns out to be haunted and the skipper is horribly tormented, but after the three nights the dog takes the skipper to a room with a large sword and instructs him to behead him.

Doing so turns the dog into a human, who explains that his father had cursed him to become a spectre of a dog.

He rewards the skipper with enough money to last him a lifetime and the skipper leaves with his riches.

This version was written down by 11 year-old Gerrit Arend Arends, who kept a journal around 1804 in which he recorded the stories that seamstress Trijntje “Soldaats” Wijbrands told him. The journal was discovered by his great-great-granddaughter E.J.Huizenga-Onnekes, who eventually published all 17 folktales in: Groninger Volksvertellingen I: Het Boek van Trijntje Soldaats (1928).

The story about the sailor and the enchanted dog is the 15th story in the collection and while it has no name there, I have seen later versions of it called “De dankbare hond” (The grateful dog) and “De hond die geen hond was” (The dog that wasn’t a dog).

So there we are! With a lot of kind help from unexpected places, my honour as a Dutch hobby folklorist is restored. Sadly we were not rewarded with a canon gay wedding from 19th century folklore, but a very good story nonetheless, that is indeed very inviting to read through a queer lens, and a rather triumphant end to a what started as a very wild goose chase.

EDIT: Since writing this, this tale type was added to Wikipedia, with additional interesting references! I wish I had looked for it there again between the beginning and the end of my search, because this took me so long it was published in between.

#the dog and the sailor #another one for laure goes off the deep end #and down the rabbit hole #danish folklore #danish fairy tale #dutch folklore #thanks to everyone who helped!#and the friends who had to hear me yell about this :P #and my sister for the editing of this monster post <3

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themirokai · 1 year

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I got this comment on a story from my Other AO3 Account this morning.

(Info redacted because I prefer keeping these accounts separate but no one follows me on the side blog I have for that account.)

The story was posted almost a year ago and is relatively “popular” by my average statistics even though it has tropes and themes that are big turnoffs for a lot of people (hence separate accounts). This popularity is undoubtedly because it’s a Marvel Loki story and that fandom is massive.

So there is obviously an algorithm or a bot scrubbing ao3 statistics and leaving this comment on fics that meet a certain metric with the main character of the fic inserted into the comment.

I had a little time to kill this morning so I decided to investigate further. And y’all this is so predatory. Come on this journey with me. It made me mad. It may make you mad.

First, if you go to Webnovel’s website, you HAVE to choose between male lead or female lead stories before you can go any further. WTF?

And that’s weird, but this gets so much worse. This is basically a pay-to-read site that has different subscription models. Which… okay BUT! The authors don’t get paid! Look at that comment again. They’re promising a supportive and nurturing community, but zero monetary compensation. It’s basically, “post your stuff here so we can get paid and you can get… nice vibes?” I mean look at this Orwellian writing:

Using the phrase “pay-to-read model” in the same sentence as “qualitative changes in lifestyles for authors” deliberately makes you think that you can get paid and maybe even make a living on this website. But that’s not actually what it says and authors will not receive one red cent.

Oh but wait, the worst is still to come. In case this breaks containment (which I kind of hope it does) this is where I mention that I’m a lawyer in the US.

I don’t do intellectual property or copyright law but I do read and write contracts for a living. So I went to look at their terms of service. It was fun!

Highlights the first, in which Webnovel gets a license to do basically whatever they want with content you post on their site. This is how they get to be paid for people reading authors’ writing without paying them anything.

Highlights the second, in which Webnovel takes no responsibility for illegally profiting off of fan fic. This all says that the writer is 100% responsible for everything the writer posts (even though only Webnovel is making money from it).

Highlights the third which say that by posting, the author is representing that they have the legal right to use and to let Webnovel use the content according to these terms. So if a writer posts fan fiction and Webnovel makes money from people reading the fan fiction, and the House of the Mouse catches wise, these sections say that that’s ALL on the writer.

So that’s a little skeevy to start off with but the thing that is seriously shitty and made me make this post was that these assholes are coming to ao3. They are actively recruiting people in comments on their fan fiction. And they are saying they are big fans of the character you’re writing about and that they share your interests.

They are recruiting fan fiction writers and giving every impression that you can make money from posting fan fiction on their site and hiding the fact that you absolutely cannot but they can make money off of you while you try, deep in their terms of service which no one but a lawyer who writes fan fic and has some time to kill will read.

I see posts on here regularly from people who don’t understand how this stuff works, don’t understand that they (and others) can not legally make a financial profit from fan fiction. And there are tons of people who will not take the time to dig into the details.

Don’t deal with these bastards. Fuck Webnovel.

#went down a rabbit hole #got mad #webnovel #this is a scam #how to ao3 #fan fiction #please spread the word #long post

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neon-ghost04 · 2 months

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Losers

#hazbin hotel #huskerdust #I’ve fallen down the huskerdust rabbit hole #husk #Angel dust #husk Hazbin #Angel fist hazbin #fanart #art #digital art #tumblr out here butchering the quality as always

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markvi-flamecane · 20 days

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I think tumblr maybe had a favorite moment from this one.

#game changer #brennan lee mulligan #Honestly I am also loving seeing just how far down the rabbit hole it gets this season #It's gonna take a lot to top bingo but I fully trust Sam and his crew to do just that #which is thrilling and terrifying

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beebox-illustrations · 1 year

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You will have to put up with my rekindled supernatural obsession…. Sorry guys 😬💚

Have a fantastic week!✨🌻

#supernatural #ah yes you will have to go down that rabbit hole with me guys #dean winchester #sam winchester #being adorable #learning how to make pancakes #bobby singer #being awesome #john being absent as usual #spn #beebox-illustrations #digital art #illustration #procreate #web comics #edit: fixed the ‘canned’‘ issue

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daenerys-targaryen · 2 years

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let’s talk about the early stages of hyperfixation where you can literally feel your brain getting doses of serotonin because of a show or a movie or a person or a character and mentally you’re like ‘ooooh no’ but it’s like a blackhole you can’t run or escape from so you just gotta ride it out knowing full well the next few months maybe even years are going to be spent mindlessly obsessing over this thing

#leah rambles #this is why i don't start new things i'm serious #this is why it takes me ageesss to watch something or listen to a new album or ANYTHING #because i KNOW my brain #i KNOW that the next weeks months maybe YEAR are going to be spent going down a RABBIT HOLE #ykwim #adhd tag #greatest Hits

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maddie-w-draws · 2 years

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ratatouille brother challenge

#jason todd #damian wayne #dick grayson #wayne family adventures #artists on tumblr #my art #fallen down a dc comics/ batfam rabbit hole #its great i need to peer pressure my friends to join me

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sketchy-noodles · 15 days

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For context, me and a few of my fellow crows on Phil’s Discord had this idea of “What if there were Minecraft crows that were specialized and adapted to live in different realms/biomes?”

And now we have End Crows 💜

Transcript & closeups below:

END CROWS

A guide by Philza Minecraft

PHYSICAL ADAPTATIONS:

Largest of all crow variants

Thinner with longer legs (LANKY)

Wings & feathers adapted for silent flight

Sharp serrated beak for eating chorus fruit

BEHAVIORAL ADAPTATIONS:

Social! Seem to flock in large groups

Allergic to water (like an enderman)

Enjoy taking dust baths!

Hoarders of shiny things (have a weird obsession with spoons for some reason?)

Prefer dark environments

Nest in End cities/trees

OTHER NOTES:

Purple glowing eyes

Feathers have an iridescent purple tint

Surrounded by particles

DO NOT MAKE EYE CONTACT!

Tattered fringe feathers

Longer legs

Velvety down feathers on legs & wings absorb sound frequencies!

Serrated beak!

DIET: omnivorous

Chorus Fruit

Endermites

Etc.

#philza #mcyt #philza minecraft #Minecraft #philza fanart #Minecraft crows #you guys have no idea how excited I am about this #i went down a rabbit hole so intense #and now you have to deal with my insane ramblings #enjoy #Shoutout to my homie Floating_buckets for the original idea #sketchy’s doodles

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tibbycaps · 3 months

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okay

#it seems ive gone down some sort of rabbit hole #grian

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justsomehazbin · 2 months

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"he never looks at ME like that"

#vox hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel vox #hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel fanart #cqart #lucifer hazbin hotel #alastor hazbin hotel #yes i absolutely got the idea after going down a rabbit hole of seeing alastor vs lucifer content

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pokeberry5 · 6 months

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girl experiences gender euphoria and is immediately slammed by grief

for @litttlittt <3. this was supposed to be a portrait of caroline hill, but litta mentioned tim looking like janet when dressed as caroline and identity issues and angst and things spiraled

something about tim not knowing if he's his mother's child or bruce's or neither's.

figuring out the looks:

i wanted janet to have that poofy 70s hair

#tim drake #dc #bruce wayne #janet drake #sart #i'm picturing this as transfemme tim hence “he” and also compounding issues about bruce treating him as a daughter #which is exactly the gender validation tim wants and needs but isnt sure he deserves #but this also definitely works for trans tim #she gets to process that she looks like her mom!! and her mom will never get to know her daughter #would she have wanted to know her daughter? even though she showered tim with love when she was around #she barely knew her son #gender idk he's a girl 👍 hope that helps #i went down a rabbit hole looking up vintage dior necklaces -- hopefully something martha wayne wouldve worn #-- but dior necklaces are COMPLICATED #i almost drew pearls but i think that wouldve been too cruel to bruce lol #(a decent amount of my art--even when it's not femme tim--gets tagged 'gender' and i dont know what im going but im glad 👍)

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thevoidstaredback · 25 days

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Enough Caffeine to Kill an Elephant

Listen. It was an accident. He didn't mean to! It just kinda happened.

So maybe he brought a drink with enough caffeine in it to kill an elephant within a few minutes, and maybe he forgot to put the sleeve on his cup so he could tell it apart from the others, but it's not his fault! He didn't think anyone else was going to have the exact same Yeti cup as him! It's not like he'd seen any of the others carry one before. Besides, he worked with superheros. They should be smart enough to check before drinking someone else's drink.

Danny had been summoned by the Justice League Dark a few years back in order to help with a world ending crisis and he just didn't leave. It's not like he could go anywhere anyway. His ghost half hadn't grown past fourteen and his human half had stopped visibly aging at eighteen. He'd had to leave town as Danny Fenton, but he'd stayed in Amity Park as Danny Phantom. When his parents died of old age, thank god, he'd closed down the portal, stuck around for a few more years, before traveling the world as Danny Fenton.

Anyway, he'd taken up residence in the House of Mysteries after the JLD had summoned him. Constantine, at first, had been wary, but he and the rest of the JLD had grown to accept him. He was an honorary member of the team.

At some point, just after Robin had become Red Robin, Danny had been introduced to the Justice League. He liked those guys, too, and worked with them sometimes. Though, he usually only went to bug them.

Red Robin had been very interested in the fact that his was fourteen and working with grown heros, like he was one to talk, but Danny hadn't explained anything other than saying that he had died and come back. The following conversation was an interesting one that lead to Danny knowing that Nightwing was the Batman he'd met and that Batman was lost somewhere. He'd confirmed that the man was not dead, but he hadn't offered to help look for him. He probably should have, in retrospect.

Back on topic! Everyone in the JLD knew not to touch Danny's drink. They'd all seen him make it before and had been horrified on varying degrees. It's not like it could kill him. He's already half dead! So long as he only drank this specific brew as Phantom, he'd be fine.

The Justice League, apparently, didn't get the memo. He blames Constantine because Zatanna and Raven can do no wrong. No, John, he's not biased.

The point is, Red Robin just had a sip of Danny's drink. The horror he now felt was akin to the fear he held when he'd told his parents he was Phantom. (An interaction that had gone very well, thank you very much.)

Danny knew the exact moment that the vigilante realized he grabbed the wrong drink. His eyes widened to an astonishing degree, and, if he'd been able to seen his eyes behind the mask, Danny knew that the man's pupils would've completely overtaken the irises. His hands started shaking, too. Oh, no. The man's already addicted to hellish amounts of coffee. This is only going to make it worse!

Quickly, and without drawing any attention, thank the Ancients, Danny rushed over. "You, um, you okay, man?" Obviously not, but he tends to talk when he's anxious and he was certainly anxious right now. He could've possibly just killed a man via poison!

"What the fuck is in this coffee?" Red Robin asked, going to take another sip.

Danny pulled the Yeti from his hand and gave him the proper one. "Enough caffeine to kill an elephant."

"Obviously not, seeing as I'm still alive."

"Yeah, I can't tell if that's a good thing or not."

"Excuse me?"

"I-I mean-! I didn't-! You know what I mean." Caffeine is poisonous in excess, and his drink was way beyond excess, but it's the only thing that works for him as a ghost! Superpowered metabolism and all that.

"Do I?" The laugh in his voice answered for him. He took a sip from his drink and frowned at it. "I don't think any coffee will ever be enough again."

"And that's my cue to get my drink very far away from you." Danny turned, fully intent on moving to the other side of the room. Besides, the meeting was going to start as soon as the Flash and Kid Flash arrived, which would be soon. Something about one of their Rouges getting out?

"What?" Red Robin asked, "Why?" If he was a little desperate to get another sip of that coffee, he'd rather not acknowledge it.

"Because you don't need anymore lethal coffee," he muttered, "The sip you took will already keep you awake for three days at least, and it probably jump started an addiction. Best to stop it now. Besides, I need to go have my crisis on how the hell you're still alive after even a sip of this stuff."

"Again, rude." The bird themed vigilante crossed his arms as best he could while holding his cup. "If it's so dangerous, why do you drink it?"

Danny took a deliberate sip as he locked eyes with the technically younger man. "I'm dead. I don't need to worry about my heart stopping or having a seizure."

"Excuses."

"No, it's not 'excuses'. I'm saving your life."

"You're a kid. If I can't have that coffee, then you shouldn't be having it."

"First, I'm older than you. Second, I already told you: I'm dead. This isn't going to hurt me. Third, you can't tell me what to do."

"There's no way you're older than me. You're like, ten."

"I'm thirty-eight!" He balked, "I only look fourteen because I died when I was fourteen. We've been over this."

Neither noticed the entire Justice League looking at them. The two they were waiting on had arrived a few minutes ago and everyone was ready to start the meeting, but they'd been distracted by the two's conversation. Was that true? Had Phantom really died so young? They'd all been made aware he was not living, but they didn't think he'd died so young! Though, that was probably the denial speaking.

The Justice League Dark had been fully aware of this and didn't really bat an eye. Though, someone should probably get this meeting started. A potentially world ending threat was the topic, and that was a pretty important thing to discuss.

Captain Marvel was the first to pull himself together, though that was only after Atlas and Zeus had mentally slapped him out of his stupur. "As, ah, riveting as this conversation is," he stepped between the two boys- er, boy and man? "we really need to start this meeting."

Batman did not clear his throat because he'd not lost his voice in the first place. "He's right. Everyone take your seats."

Part 2

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