#this is about JGY but it is also about how nobody can say anything about Novel NMJ without someone insisting | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

symphonyofsilence · 1 year

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does Jin Guangyao play a villainous role in Wei WuXian’s story? yes. but is he also the Narrative’s special boy? also, yes.

I don’t remember the post, but the fact that Wei Wuxian, and by extinction, the narrative sympathizes with Jin Guangyao has already been brought up. He draws a comparison between himself and JGY when the crowd suddenly turns against JGY in Lotus Pier and wants WWX to deal with him, and again when the other Sect Leaders led by Sect leader Yao assume that the Guanyin statue is made to resemble JGY himself ‘cause he’s a narcissist, and when people are saying nasty things about JGY in a tavern after his death.

but another way in which the narrative sympathizes with JGY is that every time JGY is shown doing a shitty thing, it’s immediately followed by him being shown in a situation in which he is a victim, or has done something good.

he paralyzes Qin Su after she finds out some horrible truths about him and hides her in the creepy room where WWX finds JGY’s sworn brother’s head? A chapter or an episode after that we see him being trash-talked and cast out by other Nie soldiers when they’re drinking the water he brought, while he’s doing thrice the work they’re doing. we see him cleaning the battlefields and helping the commoners after battles, we see him voluntarily do the work of the servants as a deputy general when they lack staff, and pour people tea, while they rudely clean their cups when they take it from his hands (which NMJ does nothing about), we see him loyally arguing with LXC that he can't leave NMJ for his father’s sect after all NMJ has done for him, and learn that he has saved LXC. CQL shows him in his Meng Yao Era more. We see him repeatedly receive scorn when all he gives others is curtsey and smiles, we see beforehand the Nie Captain be an absolute bitch to him so I'm sure nobody in the audience regretted his loss, but even then we immediately get that jumping in front of NMJ and taking a stab to the chest to save him, and the teary banishment scene that cancels the "guy is now officially a scheming murderer" out.

He's being a bitch to NMJ in the Nightless City? He kills Wen Ruohan & turns out that he has been bravely spying for the Sunshot campaign all this time and they owe him their victory. But even then, he apologizes to NMJ, kneels down, and surrenders himself.

He's protecting Xue Yang? You have him explaining to NMJ why he can't go against his father's wishes, and how he's scared of everything and everyone because he was never given the luxury of safety, status & power, so he can practice that power freely. In the end, NMJ offends his mother and kicks him down the stairs (which he's well aware is a trauma for JGY). Which honor-bound ancient man wouldn't have killed the man who disrespected his mother and kicked him down the stairs? What would have NMJ done had this been done to him? But even then, in the book, the narrative does even more to make JGY sympathetic, LXC comes to NMJ to calm him down, and he says that JGY's in a difficult situation right now. His stepmother beats him & his father doesn't listen to anything he says anymore. Otherwise, he wouldn't have talked back to NMJ. & after that, NMJ's qi deviation happens when he drops eaves on this conversation between LXC & JGY:

I mean if you've tried to murder him thrice, shoved him down the stairs, & called him a whoreson, taken any opportunity to scold him, & you don't like it when he talks back to you, at least let him talk behind your back. He's not even lying or being disrespectful or anything.

He retaliates against WWX & LWJ’s attack by showing WWX as a villain and the way he has killed NMJ comes to light? a few chapters later WWX is surprised that JGY hasn’t visited LXC to demand a search but to tell him that he has prevented everyone from searching the CR and thinks it’s best if LXC, whenever it’s convenient for him opens the doors of the CR so JGY can get this search over with and shut the other sects up. And reassures him that he won’t let LWJ’s reputation be tarnished in any way. (At the stairs of Jinlintai, JGY knew fully well that LWJ was doing what he was doing because he was in love with WWX, as we learn at the Guanyin temple, but he loudly suggested that LWJ is being deceived in front of the crowd to save LXC's brother reputation.) The Donghua even has a wartime flashback from a young Meng Yao saving LXC, feeding him, hiding him, washing his clothes, getting beaten up by the Wen soldiers to keep LXC safe, and even then bringing back food for him with a smile.

He takes everyone hostage, twice (his hostages are children the first time) and is at the peak of his villain moment? You have the whole Guanyin temple thing happening. (which, personally for me, was what really elevated him from an interesting character to my poor little mew mew in my eyes.)

When JGY kneels down, WWX feels uncomfortable. He feels embarrassed on his behalf:

the same effect of inducing pity & sympathy for him is achieved in the show by somber music swelling in this scene, reaction shots, slow-mo, and a wide-shot of everyone in the temple as JGY kneels down to make him look especially small, while almost 2/3 of the shot is of the candles of the Guyanin temple. in the exposition scene when LXC kneels down to hear JGY out, the statue of Guanyin is between them. THE LOCATION OF ALL OF JGY TRAGIC EXPOSITIONS IS A GYANYIN TEMPLE! The temple of the bodhisattva of mercy who is considered to be the physical embodiment of compassion!

And the sympathetic reaction shots when he talks about JGS continue throughout the scene.

then we learn that he had to marry Qin Su because she was already pregnant and he didn’t want QS & JRS to have his and his mother’s fate and that the reason they had to rush things through like this and conceive a child was that JGS might have further caused problems for their marriage because he really disliked his son. and that if a political fall-out happened between Jin & the Qin clan, JGY would get the burn of it. (still a shitty act, but you can’t help but understand where he’s coming from & pity him), he goes on about his father kicking him down the stairs of Jinlintai on his birthday while celebrating JZX’s birthday, we learn about his childhood in the brothel, about JGS saying that he could save Meng Shi but he didn’t ‘cause she would be too much trouble, and that their son wasn’t worth mentioning, we see JGY & SMS deep connection, the show gives us some very good Xiao Shushu & A-Ling moments, & even though it’s been always clear & is especially clear during the whole Guanyin temple scene, we see truly see the depth of love, respect, and loyalty JGY has toward LXC.

We see him in the Villainous Friends chapter telling Xue Yang that he can vandalize people's shops and restaurants for no reason, only under the condition that he doesn't wear the Jin uniform. But it's immediately followed by the mention of the bruise on his head given to him by his stepmother because she can't vent her anger on her cheating husband, who JGY has to retrieve from brothels every night to ensure his safe stay in Jinlintai for another day. We see him massacre the He sect, and right after that, he goes to retrieve his father from the brothel and hears those awful things and you can't help but sympathize with him.

Because what is really important is that you understand Jin Guangyao. There are about 14 chapters in the book and 4 episodes in the show of JGY explaining himself while crying on the floor because it's less about "Jiggy eVIL" & more about look what the society who turned his back on him & his mother when they needed their help, and sneered at them when they tried to improve their situation, and never forgave JGY for being born has done to this man to make him do such horrendous deeds. (And his sword's name is Hensheng. Meaning "hate to be born". They made him never forgive himself for being born either.)

So by saying that X & Y has happened to JGY, and so what he does is for self-preservation, nobody's JUSTIFYING his genocides, & nobody's denying that JGY had a choice in everything he did. Even if his other option was to accept his place, sit down, shut up, and suffer in silence, NOT murdering a whole sect that includes children by doing experiments on them is the better option. The point is that it's not the point. JGY's atrocities are only means in the story to tell the cautionary tale of a classist, cruel society. The things that JGY has gone through cannot be erased from the conversations because "JGY EvIl. Periodt." The Narrative doesn't want the reader to do that! It's specifically structured to put the reason JGY's got to this point on the forefront every time he does a crime. The fight with NMJ's fierce corpse ends as quickly as it begins. The Climax of the story is mostly JGY's monologues. 14 chapters of monologues cannot be dismissed as JGY gaslighting LXC & shedding crocodile tears.

in a story that has Wei WuXian as a protagonist, and literally starts with the monster the society has made of him through rumors and has this theme going on through the rest of the story, especially with JC, and baseless accusations are the first thing that happens when JGY's secrets are out in the Lotus Pier, and then ends with society making a monster out of JGY after his death through rumors when Sect Leader Yao speculates that the statue's face is modeled after JGY himself (which WWX especially comments on), and in the tavern when people made such crude remarks that even those who were participating in the conversation felt uncomfortable, I think it's clear what and who the real villain is.

MXTX could have written people talking about literally any real atrocity that JGY has done, but instead, they talk about what he hasn’t done and read the worst out of his every action in life.

And actually, with everything that JGY has been through, he’s not even the worst case that could come out of his situation. He did have good intentions. For all his genocides, unlike Xue Yang, he didn't actually want to see the world burn. He did help the innocent common folk. He helped them during the sunshot campaign, and with the watchtowers, he fought against systematic corruption, and he treated everyone with respect. He rescued LXC and QS. We don’t know how many others he has personally saved. It's that the means he had to use to have the power to help the poor was incredibly dirty because he was playing an unfair game that was especially designed against him. (I'm not saying helping the poor was his only objective when he tried to gain his father's approval and a secure place in Jinlintai for himself. Though it's sad that he had to fight for these things at all.) The best he could honorably do was be NMJ's deputy general, which didn't save him from being bullied and people cleaning the cups they took from his hands. He knew that if he tried to help the innocent without having the political power to do that, he would end up like WWX. But what he didn’t know was that he would end up like that if he, unlike WWX, played by the rules of the game and compromised his morals anyway. There was no winning for people like them.

Dismissing the good that JGY has done, the real desire he had for helping the poor, and what he’s been through cheapens the character, cheapening JGY’s character to a one-dimensional Marvel villain, and dismissing the commentary that he represents on society as a whole is a disservice to the story. And that’s a crime cause the story is great.

his fall from grace, the heinous acts he had to commit to find himself the slightest bits of safety, security, and respect wouldn’t be that much of a tragedy if he didn’t want to be good and do good for people.

Then there is JGY's death and the framing of it. Here is a wonderful analysis by @sapphicdalliances of why his death wasn't justice and that was the point, how he died because of an act he didn't commit, and here are great analysis by @thatswhatsushesaid & @crithir about how his death is described as a gut-wrenching horrible scene framed through his horrified nephew & ward's eyes, both in the book and in the show, how it didn't bring the Nie brothers any closure either, and how through the lenses of LXC and JL, and by JC’s & WWX’s reaction we see his death as a tragedy.

His death is because of a dishonorable trick. His last act in life, pushing LXC away is an act of love and of forgiveness. In the CQL before that, he pushes Jin Ling out of danger, too.

As said in the aforementioned posts, after it, we don't see a victorious Nie Huaisang or Wei WuXian. In fact, neither of them is victorious.

WWX, and by extension, the narrative blames NHS for his scheming & risking innocent lives. WWX is especially appalled by NHS' treatment of Meng Shi's body. He points out that JGY, being a big liar with a considerable criminal record, will be forever accused of lying, no matter what. While he immediately after brings JGY's last genuine act toward LXC as proof that JGY couldn't have been lying.

In the CQL, he straight-up calls NHS the devil with the coldest tone he's ever had towards NHS.

NHS for his part doesn't seem victorious either.

Dare I say he even looks like despite years of scheming he was not ready for it when JGY pushes Shuoyue deeper inside his own chest. (Who would he be acting for at that moment? Nobody's looking at him. And he’s sweating!)

And I think there's a "no, he didn't" in his last "I don't know." To LXC (at least in the show) when he's insistently asked whether JGY was going to attack LXC or not and he insistently answers "I don't know". It's a confirmation without confirmation.

And then in, IMHO, one of the most beautiful and nuanced scenes, NHS finds A-Yao's hat, in the book, he bends down, picks it up, and quietly goes away (and that's the last we see of Nie Huaisang), in the show he wipes off the dust on it, and his hand finally gets bloodied, literally & metaphorically despite trying his best to not do his dirty work himself. And we get a flashback of A-Yao's childhood that I always assumed we're seeing through NHS because maybe JGY had told him that story. Not only does the order of the scene, combined with NHS' deep in thought look seem like it but also NHS cleans JGY's hat when in that memory A-Yao's mom tells him that he needs to take good care of his hat.

And that scene is especially beautiful because the show went out of its way to show their close relationship pre-time skip. And we see NHS keep A-Yao's principal by cleaning his hat when JGY himself is too dead to do that. Even when the reason for his death is NHS himself. And by NHS getting his hands bloodied while cleaning the hat, and staring at it with a deep, nuanced look, that combination of care & hatred is shown in that scene.

I think he feels empty. He's spent years after years planning this thing. It was his only drive. Now it's over. And it wasn't a grand, victorious moment. It just...happened. and it was something that needed to happen, in his eyes.

And he did love his san-ge for a long, long time before the betrayal came to light for him. And then he hated him for a long, long time. But at that moment with JGY's bloodied hat in his hand? I think that's the moment when love and hatred have both run their passionate course and they've finally reached each other in the middle and collided and ran out of strength and intensity and separate, clear meaning and they just take their exhausted leave together, leaving only a trace behind.

And most prominently we see a devastated LXC and JL. We see Jin Ling's flashback of when his Xiao Shushu gave him his spiritual puppy. We see him being the only one who could cheer JL up when he was down for days.

We see JL choosing to keep loving him despite everything.

His loss is felt and the memory of his good deeds keeps coming back in JL's narrative:

The Narrative doesn't just sympathize with him. The Narrative mourns him.

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mxtxfanatic · 2 years

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You know what though? I do very much so feel bad for Lan Xichen in how his upbringing fucked him up. Like, I know I’ve made quite a few posts about how he knew about Jin Guangyao’s crimes but was able to ignore them by saying that jgy “must” have had a reason to commit them, and @/motivationisdead just made a fantastic post about how lxc witnessed at least two attempts on jgy’s life by Nie Mingjue but also shrugged those off, but all of this really ties back to his parents’ history and his clan’s unwillingness to let anyone know the truth of the matter.

Like, imagine growing up where your father is in seclusion so you never really meet him, and your mother is imprisoned because everyone says she murdered a clan member and your father saved her against the clan’s will. Nobody, not your uncle or elders or mother, tells you why she committed the murder, and you never see your father to ask. On top of that, you are witness to your clan lying about the circumstances of your mother’s marriage into the clan as well as her imprisonment (also dubbed “seclusion” to the public) despite this very clearly being against the clan rules. Then your mother dies and you are still a child and anything you may have had the thought to ask her as you matured can now never be answered because your clan has proven that they will not be honest or forthcoming with the truth.

But you love your clan, the people who raised you and taught you and brought you up to be the adult you now are. And you love your mother who was always kind and fun and gentle and loving with you and your brother. How do you consolidate these two conflicting ideas, that your clan known for its righteousness would imprison a woman for life against her will, removing her children from her care to only see them once a month, and your mother who, for all of her caring and kindness, is a murderer? Well, Lan Xichen dealt with it by simply refusing to ask those necessary questions, even when he gained the power to do so, so that he did not have to destabilize either image in his mind. He makes the very clear decision to never seek out the truth, so that both his mother and his clan are in the right and good.

If you can just neatly package everyone’s actions into “they had a reason, so who am I to question or judge?” then every action can be justified and no person is truly ever in the wrong or culpable for their wrongdoings. This is Lan Xichen’s life philosophy until Guanyin Temple, and this is why 3zun was such a fraught dynamic from his end.

#mdzs #i know it would defeat the purpose of the details being intentionally ambiguous #but i really want mxtx to explain wtf was happening with the lan sect and madam lan #human metas mxtx

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aoxue · 9 months

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Let's give you some for your man Jiang Cheng uh CHENGYAO?? Chengqing. Cheng. Lan. Imagine (song lan)

Ask game

Ah, my man! Let me preface this by saying that what follows is largely about CQL!Jiang Cheng.

Ship: CHENGYAO

Ship it? Not… really? It's amusing but I don't really spend time considering it seriously

1) Why don't you ship it? In thinking through this, a few things, I guess. I think it's because there's a single point that gives these characters any sort of deeper connection than just being work colleagues who see each other at conferences occasionally: coparenting Jin Ling. Which is substantial! I think they could have funny and potent divorcee energy, which might be funnier if they never were in a relationship. Or it could be nice if they got along really well, actually -- until JGY's shadow activities come to light, JC explodes, and nobody has a good time. I also just feel more strongly about Jiang Cheng (and other characters in this ask) than I do about Jin Guangyao, which makes it harder to get invested in the ship.... I also think the draw of 3zun permutations seems a little more obvious for JGY. Still, it's not a hard no!

2) What would have made you like it? Again, it's not that I dislike it, more the of compelling cases I've seen made for them. (I know they're out there; I haven't spent much time looking.) So seeing them stuck in more scenarios together, in canon or in fic, probably. Exploring more layers of connection besides just Jin Ling. I do not have the additional mental energy to do all the imagining myself lol

3) Despite not shipping it, do you have anything positive to say about it? Like I said, I think there could be some fun and interesting dynamics! JGY's amicable, smooth approach to social situations could be a really nice counter to JC's temper. Both of them are younger brothers who are very aware of their shortcomings in their fathers' eyes (one of them dealing with that considerably more and more harshly than the other).

---

Ship: CHENGQING

Ship it? I do…

1) What made you ship it? Again, CQL-verse -- but they really tried to make it something, and it landed, for me. Jiang Cheng's little looks of admiration and fondness at Gusu summer camp…. They both carried around that silly comb for a silly amount of time, and it meant something to them, and they could have been something if they weren't in the roles they were in the time they were.

2) What are your favorite things about the ship? They end up on different sides of a war, but they have so much in common. The profound love and dedication to their brothers and their clans. Having to be aware of how others perceive them and their families at all times. Both clearly driven and talented at what they do. And it's the things that make them similar and drawn to each other that ultimately keep them apart. Neither one will abandon their clans, as much as they want to keep the other person safe, and the world they're living in forces them to choose one or the other. :/ I also love a strong woman who could keep Jiang Cheng and his temper in check, whom he adores. What can I say

3) Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship? Maybe less of an unpopular opinion and more a critique of the ship itself, but yeah, it'd have been nice for JC to show more gratitude to her and Wen Ning. I get why he couldn't DO more to help them, but like. Say hi and thanks while you're visiting Burial Mounds, maybe. Show her beloved brother a little more respect.

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Ship: CHENGLAN (? songcheng??)

Ship it? LOL NO I SUPPOSE NOT

1) Why don't you ship it? They... live in different worlds with different priorities and people who are important to them! In CQL, Song Lan is a cool role model to bright-eyed teen JC, and to older JC, he's a reminder of more simplistic days that now seem sour; in MDZS, Song Lan is just some talented kid to him? I think a little teen hero crush on SL from JC might be the most interesting and cutest of these, but… Song Lan is not a man who gets into a relationship unless he's really serious about it, to me. It wouldn't go anywhere. He is also spoken for lol

2) What would have made you like it? Xiao Xingchen not existing, idk

3) Despite not shipping it, do you have anything positive to say about it? There could be some really interesting explorations of both of these guys being on the receiving end of secret nonconsensual organ/core donations from people they love a lot. Also being the (near) sole survivor of having their whole sect/temple wiped out. I don't know, maybe they could get acquainted and develop something post-canon. Who knows

#lxc is the obvious choice for a postcanon sl x sect leader ship bc his trauma is so recent and he's also just so kind and nice #jc is way pricklier but... maybe not impossible?#dj now look what you've done #(this will not go anywhere)#my top 3 jc ships are chengqing. chengNING. and chengsu #he could also be single forever and that would be just fine (ace jc rights)#asks #aoxue.txt

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plan-d-to-i · 3 years

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I've seen the idea shared a lot that "jiang cheng was holding on to Chenqing bc uwu he miSsed WWX 🥺" so to clarify, in the same way JGY is holding on to Suibian, jc was holding on to Chenqing as a war trophy and in his case more importantly as bait because he was convinced that if WWX were to return he would not go for the sword he stopped using but he'd definitely seek out his flute:

"Xue Yang: Give him the sword in exchange for the flute. It’s long since Wei WuXian stopped using his sword, while Suibian sealed itself and nobody can pull it out. What’s the use of keeping a fucking piece of decoration?”

Jin GuangYao, “You really ask me to do the impossible, Young Master Xue. Do you think I haven’t tried? How could anything be that simple. That Jiang WanYin has already gone mad. He still thinks Wei WuXian hasn’t died. If Wei WuXian returned, he might not search for his sword, but he’d definitely come for Chenqing. And so, he would definitely not give up Chenqing. A few more words of mine, and he might blow up." (Villainous Friends Extra)

jc wants to lure WWX and kill him as he's been hunting him for THIRTEEN YEARS. So in the temple at the end it's not surprising jc has Chenqing on him. Considering how obsessed he has been with tracking down WWX and as Chenqing was his strongest lure why would he have let it out of his sight all these years esp when cultivator's sleeves are magical storage space (it's free storage space!). & because I've also seen this wayyy to often -No it's not like a horcrux- it's not draining him of energy or joy to have it on his person lmfao. He only gives it back to WWX as a last resort, because they're all in mortal peril battling NMJ's corpse and NOTHING else is working. jc has always been happy to use WWX as a weapon. He's not returning it out of the goodness of his heart or because he's a changed man, or as a love letter to WWX lmfao.

In the Guanyin Temple the situation with NMJ's corpse is already immensely precarious. NMJ is attracted to JGY's blood and by extension Jin blood meaning -Jin Ling's.

"Now that Nie MingJue had become a fierce corpse, his resentful energy was of course highest when directed at his enemy, Jin GuangYao. However, fierce corpses didn’t tell people apart through their eyes!

Jin GuangYao was quite close to Jin Ling in terms of bloodline. To creatures of darkness, the blood and breath of both these two humans seemed somewhat familiar, and those in a state of disorientation would find it even more difficult to tell the two apart. Right now, blood poured from Jin GuangYao’s lost arm. With weak breaths, and he was almost half dead, while Jin Ling was still alive and jumping. Nie MingJue’s dead, thoughtless brain naturally held greater interest in him." (107)

Even with everyone pooling their strength to control NMJ's corpse it's not successful:

Lan WangJi commanded Bichen forth to attack straight at Nie MingJue’s chest. As expected, the blade stopped as soon as it landed. As Nie MingJue looked down and saw the glittering sword, he roared and reached for it. Lan WangJi immediately summoned back Bichen, which flew into its sheath with a loud clang. Nie MingJue ended up empty-handed. Right after, with a turn of his left hand, he flipped out the Wangji guqin and placed it on his palm. Without any hesitation, he strummed a stream of notes. Lan XiChen returned Liebing to his lips again as well. With a wave of his hand, Wei WuXian sent out over fifty talismans flying towards Nie MingJue, but before they even got close, they were ignited by his resentful energy and burned to ashes in the air!

Lan Wangji is using Wangji, Lan XiChen is using Liebing, Wei Wuxian's flute is broken so he's either whistling or throwing talismans and Wen Ning still has to intervene and stop NMJ's punch that would've killed jiang cheng (and then probably Jin Ling) w his body.

Finally WWX manages to wrestle it under control after it puts a hole in Wen Ning, when it's once more distracted by NHS and JGY. And if difficult as it's been to control so far if it kills JGY it will be even worse:

After he killed Jin GuangYao, his killing intent would definitely become stronger, and he’d be more difficult to subdue!

So NMJ has already "smashed three of the cultivators into a scarlet puddle of flesh", punched his way through Wen Ning to get to Jin Ling, he's just punched his way through SuShe and is about to go after JGY once more. Once he Rocky Balboas him we know that he'll be even more powerful, and one of his next targets will most likely be Jin so MXY or Jin Ling. Or most likely one and then the other. Meanwhile nothing is having any effect on NMJ's corpse anymore... when FINALLY jc decides to throw WWX his flute.

Nie MingJue turned around after he pulled his fist back and stared hungrily in his direction.

The harsh, stern expression on his rigid face held a sense of judgement that was no different from before he died. Even his tears had been scared away as Jin GuangYao turned to Lan XiChen for help, his voice trembling, “Brother…”

Lan XiChen turned the direction in which his blade pointed, while Wei WuXian and Lan WangJi sped up their melodies as well. But the effects of the whistle had already been overcome. It would be much harder than before for it to take effect again.

At this point, somebody on the side suddenly called, “Wei WuXian!”

jc NOW returns the flute when he has no other choice and finally NMJ can be subdued.

Lan WangJi nodded. No more words had to be exchanged as the notes of the guqin and the flute sounded in unison. The former was like a frozen river and the latter like flying birds; one suppressed while the other lured. Under the duet, Nie MingJue’s body wavered before it was finally half-forced to move its steps away from Jin GuangYao. (Chapter 108)

Like this is not jc just casually letting go of all his resentments and returning Chenqing to WWX as an act of trust and goodwill. This is jc doing what he's always been comfortable doing- using WWX as a weapon. Naturally, he's not going to ask for it back at the end, when it's already been revealed in front of the others that he has WWX's core and WWX just saved them all. WWX asks as a passing courtesy and then he's gone bc as he's said in the temple jc is in his past.

Wei WuXian took the flute. Remembering that Jiang Cheng was the one who brought it, he turned over there and commented casually, “Thanks.” He waved Chenqing, “I’ll… be keeping this?”

Jiang Cheng glanced at him, “It was yours in the first place.”

After a moment of hesitation, his lips moved slightly, as though he wanted to say something else. However, Wei WuXian had already turned to Lan WangJi. Seeing this, Jiang Cheng remained silent.

jc gets it. The end.

#really tired of the chenqing is a love language bullshit #Yunmeng NOs #I removed the cut /Keep Reading since it's not that long xx #mdzs #Wei Wuxian #Nie Mingjue #Wen Ning #Lan Wangji #jiang cheng #canon jiang cheng

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no--envies · 3 years

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In my opinion, one of the reasons JC went crazy after WWX’s death and started venting his own anger and hatred on every demonic cultivator he met, regardless if they were guilty or innocent, is that he couldn’t stand the fact that he hadn’t managed to deal the killing blow to WWX. After all his effort in leading the siege and using the information he had on the Burial Mounds to plan the action and convince everyone else to follow him, he wasn’t even the one who actually killed WWX. WWX died because one of his cultivation techniques backfired and he was torn to pieces by his own ghost army.

I think JC couldn’t accept this. After everything he had done - and thinking he was justified in hating WWX for all the perceived wrongdoings he believed he was a victim of - WWX had managed to surpass him once again. Nobody was able to kill him, not even him.

We know JC’s reaction in the aftermath of the siege because JGY and XY directly comment on it in the extra focused on them:

Xue Yang, “What about his flute? Can you get me Chenqing?”

Jin GuangYao shrugged, “Not Chenqing. Jiang WanYin took it.”

Xue Yang, “Doesn’t he hate Wei WuXian the most? Why would he need Chenqing? Didn’t you also get that sword of Wei WuXian’s? Give him the sword in exchange for the flute. It’s long since Wei WuXian stopped using his sword, while Suibian sealed itself and nobody can pull it out. What’s the use of keeping a fucking piece of decoration?”

Xue Yang sniggered, “A mad dog.”

(Chapter 118, ExR translation)

Whatever JC had tried to achieve by leading the siege, he wasn’t able to achieve it. If the only thing he had wanted was to punish WWX for his deeds, he would have been satisfied with his own role in WWX’s death. I don’t think killing WWX was the only thing he wanted, though. He was probably trying to prove something, to himself and everyone else. He wanted to prove that he could surpass WWX for once, and that WWX had been wrong all along in choosing to put himself at risk to help others instead of listening to him. He wanted WWX to admit it was all his fault.

After a while of silence, Jiang Cheng asked, “You’ll stay like this from now on? Got any plans?”

Wei WuXian, “Not at the moment. None of the group dares go down the mountain. People don’t dare do anything anything to me when I go down the mountain either. It’ll be fine as long as I don’t stir up trouble on my own.”

“On your own?” Jiang Cheng sneered, “Wei WuXian, do you believe that even if you don’t stir up trouble on your own, trouble won’t come and find you? It’s often impossible to save someone, but there are more than thousands of ways to harm someone.”

Wei WuXian replied as he ate, “A man with strength can defeat ten with skill. I don’t care if they have thousands of ways. I’ll kill whoever comes.”

Jiang Cheng spoke in a cool voice, “You never listen to any of my opinions. One day, you’ll come to understand that I’m the one who’s right.”

(Chapter 75, ExR translation)

JC had always tried to convince WWX to abandon his path. Since he couldn’t outshine WWX in any way, he wanted to at least prove he was right in the path he had chosen, that choosing to help others at the expense of oneself ultimately wasn’t worth it. But WWX wasn’t swayed in the least. He kept walking resolutely on his single-plank bridge in the dark, regardless of what anyone else thought.

WWX was aware of JC’s mentality: he knew JC wouldn’t willingly put his own reputation at risk to help him protect Wens if he could avoid it. This was one of the main things that divided them since they were teenagers: their values and outlooks were simply too different, it was only a matter of time before their choices made them take completely diverging paths. WWX was fine anyway, he could take care of himself - this mindset could be seen as too overconfident, but he wasn’t completely wrong. He knew he could protect the Wen remnants even without relying on anyone else, since he managed to do it for two years before everything crumbled at Qiongqi Path.

In the end, Jin Zixun ambushed WWX accusing him of something he hadn’t done, and everything spiraled down so quickly he couldn’t do anything to prevent it, until he lost control of his demonic cultivation and killed Jin Zixuan. The sects’ suspicion towards him turned into open hostility and everyone was immediately ready to consider him an actual threat to them all. After the bloodbath of Nightless City, WWX was labeled as the scourge of the cultivation world, an enemy that should be eliminated to guarantee everyone’s peace and safety.

At first glance, one could think JC was right and WWX was wrong. But if this was really what the novel is trying to tell us, why was JC unable to move on for thirteen years, while WWX was immediately ready to start a new life and leave everything in the past after he was brought back? Even when JC managed to capture WWX and confronted him, WWX didn’t have anything to say to him.

The cup was steaming. Before he had taken a single sip, Jiang Cheng suddenly hurled it at the floor. He lifted the corner of his lip slightly and spoke. “You—you don’t have anything to say to me?”

[...]

“I don’t know what to say to you,” Wei Wuxian replied sincerely.

“So you refuse to repent,” Jiang Cheng said in a low voice.

In their past conversations, they had frequently tried to sarcastically undermine each other. Wei Wuxian thus replied without thinking, “Similarly, you haven’t improved a single ounce either.”

Jiang Cheng’s answering smile was brimming with fury. “Fine. Then let’s see which of us truly hasn’t shown an ounce of improvement.”

(Chapter 24, Fanyiyi translation)

I think this exchange is very interesting: WWX and JC are no longer bickering or teasing each other as they so frequently did in the past. What had once been a complicated relationship with genuine affection beneath it all, now retained only the semblance of it. There’s no more warmth, no more anything worth trying to repair. While JC is still adamant about using WWX as a scapegoat to avoid reflecting on his own mistakes, WWX has long since moved on. He doesn’t even feel resentment towards JC, he just wants to live his new life freely.

JC is an interesting foil for WWX, their interactions show how fundamentally incompatible they are and both of their character arcs highlight one of the main themes of the novel: the importance of letting go of all the grudges and negative feelings and remembering the good things, since only then one can truly be free. This is something WWX knows perfectly well:

Wei WuXian propped his arm on Lil’ Apple’s head, spinning Chenqing in his hand, “My mom said you have to remember the things others do for you, not the things you do for others. Only when people don’t hold so much in their hearts would they finally feel free.”

This was one of the only things he remembered about his parents.

(Chapter 113, ExR translation)

#mdzs #mdzs meta #jiang cheng #wei wuxian

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vrishchikawrites · 3 years

Text

LAN XICHEN AND JIANG CHENG:

JC stans want Jiang Cheng to end up with Lan Xichen because he is the First Jade of Lan, while Lan Wangji, who is Wei Wuxian’s husband, is only Second. For once in his miserable life, Jiang Cheng will get the better end of the deal than Wei Wuxian, right? But the thing is, as far as the narrative goes, nobody can beat Hanguang-jun other than Wei Wuxian- his own brother included. We are repeatedly given evidence that Lan Wangji is stronger than Lan Xichen, is more of an expert at the guqin than Lan Xichen, is more skilled in Clan Techniques than Lan Xichen, is more righteous than Lan Xichen, etc. etc. Nobody but Lan Wangji could have survived the 33 whip lashes, fought 33 well-trained Elders while also protecting his dying beloved, undertaken dangerous night hunts in desolate areas with no expectations of repayment, and end up Hanguang-jun. When one hears of the name ‘Lan’, one thinks of Hanguang-jun, Lan Wangji, the Second Jade of Lan, and then, Lan Xichen, his brother, the First Jade. Lan Wangji did have more freedom than Lan Xichen, but it is not that much more, and thus we can attribute his values and his morals as his own. Where does Xicheng come in? We know that Jiang Cheng does not care about pesky qualities such as honour or integrity, to say nothing of his homophobic tendencies, but if he were to become a “disgusting” cut-sleeve, he would not settle for anything but the best, which Lan Xichen is not. Jiang Cheng is also extremely jealous and vindicative, easy to offend and anger, and can absolutely never handle being below anyone. Lan Xichen might not be as talented as his brother, but he is still leagues better than the “Wielder Of His Own Damn Sword”, Jiang-Zhongzu. They would not mesh well together. But we know all this. Let us talk about Lan Xichen. Rulers should be good to their people and their primary strength should lie in being able to detach themselves from their personal feelings in kingdom-related matters and take a professional approach. In the book’s context, a Sect Leader should be cold and practical in the matters involving the Sect. Jiang Fengmian fails to do this with his wife, and ends up getting most of his Sect killed due to his cowardice. Lan Xichen does this with A-Yao. As Sect Leader, Lan Xichen’s warmth causes less diplomatic incidents, since he is good with pacifying and mollifying prickly Sect Heads, but he can be easily swayed by weakness, real or feigned, and such beliefs work to his disadvantage. One more thing I would like to point out is that Lan Wangji, after losing the love of his life and being whipped 33 times (with a Spiritual Weapon) for treason, only remained in seclusion long enough to heal his body. If he could function in such a painful situation, all the while caring for an orphaned child and watching his brother happily interact with the person most responsible for, why could not Lan Xichen? He wasn’t even physically impaired! Oh boo-hoo, my most trusted friend of 20 years betrayed me and killed my Sworn Brother? Yes! Yes, he did, and it was a most traumatising thing to do, but he did not do it without your own help and encouragement! It is not Lan Xichen’s fault for being taken by a Master Manipulator, of course, but it is his fault for being passive and taking the easy way out 2/3 times in order not to upset his Sworn Brothers and the rest of the elitist Cultivation World! There are metas that state that once Lan Xichen is given confirmation of ill-will and misdeeds, he does not hesitate to choose the path of righteousness and conviction, but it is the time that he takes to obtain such confirmations is what irks me. He makes no moves of his own, does not go out of his way to investigate events he himself was suspicious about until his brother encourages (read: forces by showing unignorable evidence) him to, and spends most of his time after the Siege sitting on his hands (other than rebuilding his Sect, I will give him that) and entertaining A-Yao! *Sigh* This is quite a cruel take on him, and if we view him through the same lens we do

our favourite characters many of his faults will fizzle out quickly, but I just think he should not be let off as scott-free as he currently is being let. If I have misunderstood something, or mentioned anything wrong, please do not hesitate to correct me! It will help with my understanding of his character and help me write better fics.

Dee - This was a submission not an ask - my reply under the cut off

I try not to say much about LXC and maintain a neutral POV on him because he is, from what I read in the novel, a good character. Not perfect and certainly not as wise as he's often made out to be, but good. Honestly, to me he comes across as someone who is somewhat naive, unaware of his own prejudices, but willing to pursue the truth when prompted. He also seems to be a bit stubborn and is very confident in his own judgment. I believe all of that can be attributed to the fact that he's a Sect Heir and a Sect Leader later. He needs to have that solid belief in his judgment to lead.

To me, LWJ and LXC present interesting parallels. Both loved (platonic in LXC's case, love is love) people from lower social classes, both were confronted with somewhat unsavory characteristics. The parallels are very striking, tbh.

LWJ loved a morally strong man - LXC loved a morally weak one.

LWJ's love for WWX enlightened him - LXC's love for JGY blinded him.

LWJ took WWX to task on every mistake - LXC covered up or made excuses for JGY's red flags.

WWX's taught LWJ to challenge and question everything - JGY taught LXC to trust blindly and accept excuses.

LWJ learned to fight, even if it meant disrupting peace - LXC learned to look the other way in order to maintain peace.

It wasn't until LXC was pushed by LWJ and WWX that he took action but he still took action. Arguably, it would've been just as painful for LXC to suspect JGY as it would've been LWJ to suspect WWX. When you love someone and their character sinks to the gutter, the hurt is immeasurable. It is nearly the worst betrayal you can face. I don't blame LXC for wanting to avoid it.

Also, LXC had a lot of reasons to act the way he did. As readers, we have the benefit of hindsight but when people are confronted with difficult situations and insufficient information, they act differently. So yeah, it is a bit dissatisfying that he doesn't get called out for some of this foolishness, but honestly, it is a minor thing.

As for LXC and JC, I agree. It is definitely a way to one-up WWX with the 'better' Lan. We don't really know how skilled LXC is and how he can stand against LWJ or WWX. I'm rather certain he's stronger than JC at any rate. JGY was able to fight and defeat JC but he had to trick both LXC and LWJ into sealing their powers. His cultivation is strong. He's just not as sharp and intelligent as LWJ and WWX are but they're exceptional.

#submission #anti jiang cheng

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gloriousmonsters · 2 years

Note

character ask game 💚🤍🖤 - so uh, talk to us about Lan Sizhui? 😁😏

one aspect about them i love

Honestly I did not spend that much brainspace on LSZ before writing trust me as though I were your enemy, which is a very *cough* specific and premise-based take on his character, so... speaking from my brief newfound interest in the character, I love the untapped potential of his character? Most of what we see is very surface level--not to say his kindness and proactive Good-Boy-ness isn't genuine if it's not backed by the correct impulses, I think on one hand he genuinely values being considerate and careful and kind (and him being the only Lan junior who tries speaking gently to 'Mo Xuanyu' when he's just acting deliberately 'crazy' still gives me feelings. i, like wwx, have the 'such a nice kid! how tf did the Lan sect spit HIM out?' reaction 😂)

...but on the other hand, 'Lan' Sizhui has no real choice but to be a Good Kid. He's kind of adopted into the Lan family, but his main point of adoption is Lan Wangji, and it happened during the years LWJ was thoroughly destroying all of his Good Boy rep within (parts of, at least) the sect--something I thought about but didn't manage to work thoroughly into the fic was that LSZ probably deals with a lot of spillover dislike by, say, the 33 elders that were severely wounded by LWJ. And then there's all the shit he'd just barely remember... In conclusion, LSZ pretty probably grew up with the impression that Something Bad happened when he was a kid but nobody will talk about it, and dealt with feeling like he was on Thin Fucking Ice with a significant portion of the Lan elders without knowing why. Perfect recipe for a kid to repress any 'bad' feeling or behavior he might ever have!

So... what's under that surface? Especially when he starts learning about the truth of everything that happened at the end of canon, and learns where he actually came from?

Fun to think about.

one aspect i wish more people understood about them

I am not familiar enough w how people usually characterize him to really speak on this...

one (or more) headcanon(s) i have about this character

something that I did decide on during writing is that while he's not disliked by many people in the younger generations, he really doesn't have any friends except for Lan Jingyi. He doesn't get close to people easily, so it takes someone as enthusiastic and bad at reading subtlety as Jingyi to hang in there and earn the position :P

one character i love seeing them interact with

Tbh I'm not immune, his interactions with WWX and LWJ when he's a little kid hit me right in the heart. It's especially adorable in CQL, when he's sitting in LWJ's lap and you can see LWJ getting baby fever in realtime. They may not be the best guardian-ish figures, but his connection to both of them is still obviously important to him, and seeing the beginnings of it is still painfully sweet.

one character i wish they would interact with/interact with more

Honestly there's a lot I wish here! I'd like to see something of him traveling with Wen Ning (I've heard there's a movie, but also that it sucks, and based on Fatal Journey i believe it); I'd like to have seen more one-on-one interaction with LWJ when he's older, instead of always just being part of the Group of Juniors. After writing this fic, I'm also wishing that he'd ever really interacted with SMS, lol.

one headcanon i have that involves them and one other character

Separate from any fics i may or may not be writing < <.... I think he had a good, if not at all close, relationship with Jin Guangyao, and looked up to him a little bit (lsz: wow you're repressing EVERYTHING and you're doing it so well i wanna be you when i grow up). He felt a little guilty about it because while LWJ never said anything specific, he didn't seem to like Lianfang-zun much, but whenever LSZ saw him (at conferences and meetings in Jinlintai, or during JGY's frequent visits to the Lan sect) JGY was always super nice and friendly, and jokes aside was modeling a type of poised strength that was very different from LWJ's uncaring-of-social-consequences conduct that LSZ, to say the least, did not feel like he was capable of.

(jgy, on his end, is having a 'wow what a nice kid how tf is he someone adopted by that rude boy lwj' moment)

#lan sizhui #character meme #paradife-loft

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canary3d-obsessed · 3 years

Text

Restless Rewatch: The Untamed, Episode 25, part one

(Masterpost) (Other Canary Stuff)

Warning: Spoilers for All 50 Episodes!

Holy crap, Episode 25! We’re halfway through! *Cue Bon Jovi*

Hunt Invitation

After taking a nice long break to watch Word of Honor pick lotus pods, Wei Wuxian and Jiang Yanli return to stressing over the shitshow that is the post-Sunshot cultivation world. Jin Zixuan has come to invite them to the Phoenix Mountain Hunt, with a special invitation from his mother to Jiang Yanli. Jiang Cheng reacts to this in a mature and reasonable manner, while Wei Wuxian...doesn't.

On the surface, Jiang Cheng has matured in recent months; much more than Wei Wuxian, with his secret burdens, has. But it's only on the surface, as we'll see later in the episode, when Jiang Cheng's insecurity will take the reins.

Jin Zixuan is adorably pleased by Jiang Yanli's acceptance of the invitation. Wei Wuxian is less pleased, but sort of tries to suck it up.

Jin Zixuan kind of undercuts the romance of his errand by asking Wei Wuxian for the Yin tiger amulet as soon as Jiang Yanli is out of earshot.

As always, Jin Zixuan makes an impression by being the best Jin currently in existence, but the Jins are terrible. JZX is working to advance his dad's ambitions, and as such he is currently Wei Wuxian's enemy.

(more after the cut)

Opening Ceremonies

There's a bunch of cultivators arranged for the opening ceremony. Later someone will say that this is more than 5 thousand people. Ok, sure.

As I've said before, it's best to think of it like a theatre production and assume the other 4,900 people are offstage or, you know, painted on the backdrop.

The young lead cultivators from the four main clans are standing together. Nie Huaisang is trying out some new body armor.

The clan leaders are seated up on the stage, along with Jin Furen and Jiang Yanli. Unfortunately Jin Furen doesn't seem to have a personal name that I can discover. Her title Fūrén ( 夫人) means she's the primary wife of the head of the family, according to this excellent meta.

So “Madame Jin” is a decent translation...if you're French? I feel like instead of English subtitles including borrowed words from French (”Marquis” in NIH), Greek (”Water of Lethe” in WOH), and other European languages, we could try borrowing Chinese words instead. Jin Zixuan's mom is titled, not named, Jin Furen. Since we don’t know her actual name, I'll call her that and abbreviate it JFR.

Wei Wuxian's childishness continues at the opening of the hunt, as does Jiang Yanli's encouragement of his childishness. I know she's had a rough couple of years, and it's understandable to want to baby her little brother out of a sense of nostalgia. But it's not good for him, and she shouldn't do it; she should encourage him to be more mature, just as she does with Jiang Cheng.

War Crimes Contest

Jin Guangyao says they're going to have an archery competition, and they're going to liven it up by endangering some prisoners. These prisoners are Wens in Wen cultivator uniforms, meaning they're not the noncombatants that were being hunted down earlier. But they’re still helpless people in chains.

There are three different reactions when the Wen prisoners are brought out. All the Jins are pleased, or neutral. All of the Jiangs, including Wei Wuxian, are upset.

The Nies and the Lans, what we see of them, are a little shocked, but not obviously upset. Based on those reactions, it seems like this is a maneuver that in-world is considered shocking and cruel, but not necessarily unethical or immoral. Shocking, cruel displays of power are pretty normal in this world; remember when Wen Chao lit a Lan cultivator on fire just to say hello, and nobody complained?

This whole scenario, of course, has been designed to provoke Wei Wuxian. One major goal of this event, and the whole reason for wanting Wei Wuxian to come, is to get the Yin Tiger amulet. Making him lose his shit in front of 100 5000 cultivators is a good step toward compelling him to hand the amulet over.

We see Jiang Cheng and Jiang Yanli both signaling Wei Wuxian to keep it together, and he takes a step back and tries to chill.

Meanwhile, Jin Zixuan seems annoyed by all this, and goes to take a shot at it, making it clear from his demeanor that this is easy and JGY is making a show of nothing.

He hovers in the air and makes a perfect shot, pleasing most of the crowd and impressing Jiang Yanli.

Then his cousin Jin Zixun taunts the crowd, challenging anyone to do better. This presents a bit of a problem for Wei Wuxian. For the sake of the Wen prisoners, Wei Wuxian should just take this taunting and let the contest end, if no-one else is willing to take a shot. But for the sake of the Jiang Clan’s status, and his continued control of the Yin Tiger amulet, he needs to put the Jins in their place.

Every Day is Blindfold Day

This moral dilemma is resolved with an abrupt tonal shift, where the humanitarian concerns of all parties seem to vanish. Wei Wuxian flirts embarrassingly with Lan Wangji and then goes as far over the top in besting Jin Zixuan as it's possible to go.

The flirting hits differently, incidentally, when you edit Jiang Cheng's annoyed reaction out of it:

Lan Wangji doesn't seem embarrassed by Wei Wuxian's request, despite it happening in front of 100 5000 of their fellow cultivators. He looks Wei Wuxian straight in the eye for longer than necessary before turning away; it’s not exactly stern disapproval. We’ll get very used to this look, in Wei Wuxian’s second life.

Fortunately, Wei Wuxian carries a blindfold with him wherever he goes, (gifset here), and he is such a good cultivator he can hit 5 parallel targets simultaneously without even holding his bow straight or tightening the string.

(OP fixed the angle of the bow for this gif, which is why everyone is standing on a hill in the background).

Everyone is pleased by this shot except Jins Guangyao and Zixun; even the Jin cultivators are clapping, and Madame Jin is presumably this happy any time Jin Guangyao’s plans go wrong.

With that they start the hunt. Jin Zixun challenges Wei Wuxian to do the whole hunt blindfolded. Wei Wuxian agrees, but the censorship committee said no, apparently, so we don’t get to see that.

Flute Hunting

We do get to see Wei Wuxian luring monsters into his nets by being too sexy for his robe, too sexy for his robe, and playing the flute.

We also get to see Jiang cultivators looking puzzled while random monster roars happen in the woods around them. We do not get to see any monsters, which is probably just as well.

Jiang Cheng is annoyed and concerned, muttering "I told you not to overdo it" which means he didn't, you know, tell Wei Wuxian NOT to do this, just not to do it quite so well. Jiang Cheng knows what Wei Wuxian’s abilities are and he is making use of him, as he should, but he doesn’t have the courage of his convictions.

Tree Confession

Wei Wuxian sees Lan Wangji and starts to say hi, but then he has a desaturated flashback to Lan Xichen telling him to back off, so he stops himself. But then Lan Wangji comes over to talk to him.

Lan Wangji starts off talking to him about his latest anti-resentment musical discoveries, and Wei Wuxian pushes back, even calling him Lan Wangji, but gently. Wei Wuxian asks "who am I to you?" and Lan Wangji turns the question right back at him, then waits a looooooong time, eyes downcast, while Wei Wuxian thinks of a serious answer.

Wei Wuxian says "I used to treat you as my zhījǐ" --which, as we’ve discussed before, is variously translated soulmate, confidant, intimate friend--with a strong meaning of "the person who truly knows me." Lan Wangji says "I still am." Coming from Lan Wangji, who NEVER says how he feels about Wei Wuxian or about anything, really, this sounds a lot like a confession of love.

It definitely takes the form, visually, of a love confession, as Lan Wangji speaks, then gazes at Wei Wuxian while he waits for a reply. Wei Wuxian's reply is this:

I don't think Wei Wuxian is oblivious (I'm speaking strictly of CQL, not MZDS, as always with these posts; they are different works). I think he loves Lan Wangji back, and knows it. But Chenqing and everything it represents are between them.

Lan Wangji is quite literally NOT his zhījǐ any more, because he doesn't truly know Wei Wuxian right now. He loves him desperately, but he doesn't know about his core, and hasn't accepted his cultivation method. So Wei Wuxian answers his confession by showing him Chenqing, effectively declining to accept his still-conditional love.

Snake Measuring

Next we get terrible hetero courtship in the form of Jin Zixuan finding snake discharge on the ground and talking to Jiang Yanli about comparative snake measuring. Seriously: that is the actual conversation that they are having.

Jin Zixuan boasts for a bit, and then awkwardly tries to ask Jiang Yanli on a date. When she turns him down he gets mad, because he's a typical heterosexual dude even though he's secretly a delightful person...very, very secretly. Jiang Yanli, for her part, can't string a fucking sentence together to save her life whenever he's around, so she's not helping their mutual understanding.

Lan Wangji attempts to hold Wei Wuxian back from beating Jin Zixuan’s ass yet again, but eventually JYL wants to leave, JZX tells her to wait, and WWX intervenes. Why doesn't Jiang Yanli have a maid or Jiang cultivator with her while she's on a date, incidentally? These kids are confused about whether they're doing feudal patriarchy or whether they're doing modern social life.

Jin vs. Jiang

Wei Wuxian jumps in between Jiang Yanli and Jin Zixuan, which JZX objects to. Jin Zixuan has no fucking business objecting and Wei Wuxian is 100% right, at this point. As soon as WWX shows up JZX should hand her off to her Shidi, bow, and leave her the fuck alone. Instead, he draws his sword on Wei Wuxian, and kind of on Jiang Yanli since she's right behind Wei Wuxian. Fortunately, Lan Wangji blocks him.

This instantly blows up into a Jiang-Jin Clan conflict, with Jiang Cheng unfortunately absent since he let his unmarried sister go off in the woods alone with the son of the Cultivaton world's most famous lecher. It looks like it’s a personal conflict, but since Jin Zixuan already told Wei Wuxian directly that Jin Guangshan wants his amulet, any arguments between them are part of a larger power struggle.

Cousin Jin Zixun comes running up to start shit. Wei Wuxian pretends--I am SURE he's pretending--not to know who he is. The dude hassles Wei Wuxian every time he sees him; Wei Wuxian is a troll, and right now CJXZ is butting in to something that doesn't concern him. Rather than argue, Wei Wuxian insults him by telling him he’s not memorable.

Jin Furen shows up with several maids and cultivator dudes in tow, which is the proper way for a highborn woman to wander around in the woods. She also brings Clan Leader Yao, because if it's Wei Wuxian Blaming Hours, Yao is going to be there.

I initially found the deep friendship between superhot Yi Zuyuan and dumpy Jin Furen implausible, but then I remembered that my lifelong bestie is a smokin' hot redhead with impeccable fashion sense, while I am a roly-poly nerd. Friends don’t always match. Also, Jin Furen's actress, Hu Xiaoting, looks like this:

...so she is actually hot in real life. Not as hot as Zhang Jingtong (who plays Yu Ziyuan) but literally nobody is as hot as Zhang Jingtong. Don't @ me, you know I'm right.

This is a heck of a long scene, so we’ll pick it up in part two!

Soundtrack: Livin’ on a Prayer by Bon Jovi

Writing prompt: Newly-divorced, cold-hearted CEO Yu Ziyuan buys an apartment next door to newly-divorced, warm-hearted pastry chef ...uhh let's call her Jin Dàngāo (蛋糕), sure. She can name her business after herself.

They discover their daughter & son are in the same college class, and so they meet up over coffee....several times...trying to matchmake their hopeless, hapless kids, while bonding over their own terrible (former) taste in husbands. Who will Cupid strike first, the kids or the moms?

#the untamed #the untamed gifs #wangxian #restless rewatch the untamed #canary3d-original #my gifs

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ibijau · 4 years

Note

“I’ve got a sick sense of justice, but you knew that.” 3zun fic? Where things work out between them, somehow, and yet JGY still kills JGS the same way and defends that choice to LXC and NMJ (Or JZX, if he's alive)? Can go full on JGS was stealing his women's energy, hence their sickness/deaths!

warning for mentions of death, rape and murder. Yay, it’s a happy one :D

Nie Mingjue storms into the cell, only for Jin Guangyao to look up and smile at him, as if he were welcoming him into his quarters, rather than locked up and in chains. He smiles just as peacefully to Lan Xichen when he follows their lover inside, pretending not to notice the other man's obvious distress.

"I hope Da-ge and Er-ge will forgive me if I do not stand and bow to them," Jin Guangyao calmly says, rattling his chains.

Nie Mingjue stares at him, taken aback.

Even though they have reached a tentative peace between them, and Jin Guangyao often makes efforts to be more open with them than he is with anyone else, he still is the same person he always was. When he gets in trouble, he makes himself pathetic before them, almost on instinct. Sometimes it annoys Nie Mingjue, but other times it feels almost like a joke between them, as long as Jin Guangyao has that twinkle in his eye to show he knows he won't be taken seriously.

To see him this calm and detached is unsettling. Nie Mingjue can only wonder if it has something to do with that large bruise on the side of his head. Going by the colour it is at least a day old. No cultivator of Jin Guangyao's level should have let this last this long.

"Ah, this," Jin Guangyao notes, feeling their gaze. "Zixun was not very happy and let it be known. I am sorry to present myself before you in such a state, but my powers have been sealed, and I could not do anything about it. Please, just avoid looking at it."

That makes Nie Mingjue frown. If Jin Zixun is behind one bruise, he's ready to bet there are more, hidden under Jin Guangyao’s clothes. He forces his mind to drift away from the worry he feels, because the real problem today is…

"Did you do it?" Lan Xichen asks, something wavering in his usually calm voice.

Jin Guangyao placidly looks up at him.

"What do you think, Er-ge?"

Lan Xichen trades a glance with Nie Mingjue.

What they think is that Jin Zixun, who uncovered the plot against his late uncle, is not the most reliable man in the world, and holds a grudge against Jin Guangyao since that near fiasco with Wei Wuxian at Jin Ling's hundredth day party.

They think also that he did bring convincing evidence. The most critical one is the testimony of a woman who took part in the murder of Jin Guangshan. She says she did not see the man who paid for her services, but she would recognise his voice. She also did see Xue Yang, and they all know the little creep respects no one except Jin Guangyao.

They think that Jin Zixuan is desperately trying to prove his half brother's innocence, but finding it difficult.

They think that Jin Guangyao has killed his superiors before.

They think he promised he wouldn't again, and they both made the choice to trust him.

And Nie Mingjue thinks, also, that although they've disagreed on means and motives, Jin Guangyao never strikes unprovoked, which he says out loud.

The tenderness in Jin Guangyao’s eyes as he hears this is nearly unbearable.

“Da-ge, are you really asking for my side of the story?” he asks in disbelief.

It might be sincere. It might be feigned. Nie Mingjue never knows with him, just as he suspects Jin Guangyao never knows what to expect from him.

“We know your father was not… the kindest of men,” Lan Xichen says gently, kneeling down next to Jin Guangyao to send some spiritual energy into him and help him heal. Jin Guangyao sighs in relief, but keeps his eyes on Nie Mingjue even as Lan Xichen continues speaking. “You have let us know about some of the things he’s done, A-Yao, and I’ve long suspected there’s more you never told us. If he did anything to deserve such an end…”

“Of course he deserved it,” Jin Guangyao cuts him, still looking at Nie Mingjue. “You both know it as well as I do. He deserved it whether I had a hand in it or not. He was a selfish man. He only joined the Sunshot Campaign because he hoped to become what Wen Ruohan had been. He only took me in because his true son, forcefully kept from the heat of the action, failed to garner glory for Lanling Jin. And I won't get into the details of everything that happened with Wei Wuxian."

"But none of these things are why you killed him," Nie Mingjue retorts, suddenly convinced that Jik Guangyao really did it.

Once, it would have filled him with rage to realise this. Back when he first understood what sort of a person his efficient and soft spoken friend was, when he saw Jin Guangyao murder his own captain… But since then, Nie Mingjue has learned to forgive, at least somewhat. Because when Jin Guangyao killed Nie Mingjue’s men in Nightless City, he took care to only murder those who once derided him for his background, to lightly wound the ones who never mocked him.

It was still wrong, those were still good men, but Nie Mingjue, who had been burning for years with his hatred of the Wens, understood that better than he ought to have done.

So there is no anger as Nie Mingjue too kneels down next to their lover. Only disappointment. In himself, for wanting to excuse this most awful crime. In Jin Guangyao, for not coming to them this time, when he thought something was wrong. They had listened about Wei Wuxian, they would have listened about this too.

"Some brothels offer specialised services," Jin Guangyao says, the smile on his face shifting from loving to cold and polite, the way it used to be around his father. "I suppose this doesn't surprise you. Someone with money can always get what they want in this world."

Both Nie Mingjue and Lan Xichen nod uncomfortably.

"Some of those services offered are of a rather different nature," Jin Guangyao goes on, his eyes growing distant. "They are difficult to perform, cannot be repeated, and cost an obscene amount of money… not to speak of the moral cost. It takes a certain kind of man to purchase such services. Believe it or not, even Xue Yang found it distasteful. For all the wrong reasons, but still, I think Da-ge and Er-ge will agree that it takes a lot to shock someone like Xue Yang."

Lan Xichen takes their lover's hand, trying to comfort him, but Nie Mingjue freezes. He is suddenly reminded of certain rumours, gossip so foul that it had to be exaggerated. He's always refused to pay it any mind, knowing well there were horror stories about him as well, as there always are against powerful men.

He can't escape it now.

“It’s not hard to find human cauldrons, if you know how to look for them,” Jin Guangyao states in a voice devoid of any emotion, staring somewhere in the distance. “And some men will always look for an easy way to improve their cultivation, even if it means raping and killing a girl for it. There are addresses, and certain euphemisms. These days, you would ask to see a Wen girl. I’ve learned that a few years ago, people called them educated women.”

Nie Mingjue only frowns at that comment, but next to him Lan Xichen gasps in horror, squeezing Jin Guangayo’s hand.

“Your mother…”

Jin Guangyao blinks a few times, and forces himself to look at Lan Xichen. It appears to take him great effort. Nie Mingjue wonders if it is the topic that causes this, or if the blow to his head caused more damage than is visible.

“No, don’t worry. She was just actually educated. It didn’t mean the same thing in Yunping as it did in Lanling, but my father found her attractive enough for his other purposes, I suppose.” Jin Guangyao looks away again, his face growing harder. “Others were not as lucky. It is all too easy to get what you want, with enough money.”

“You should have told us,” Nie Mingjue says. “If you had come to us with proof…”

“My father is not so stupid that he would have left proof,” Jin Guangyao hisses between clenched teeth, still staring at the wall. “Even he would have had trouble justifying doing such a thing to augment his power. I only found out because I went to fetch him with Xue Yang at a brothel one day, and heard him discussing in detail his next… purchase. Xue Yang happened to be knowledgeable about certain euphemisms we were hearing, and thought it entertaining to explain to me. After this I started looking. It’s funny what you find, when you look for it. It wasn’t proof enough to openly attack him, not with my background. But it was enough to be sure. And then…”

Jin Guangyao chuckles darkly, his eyes finally meeting Nie Mingjue’s.

“I’ve got a sick sense of justice, but you knew that,” he says with unnerving calm. “Xue Yang was on board because he thinks that sort of thing is cheating. Torturing the dead and cutting them from their reincarnation doesn’t phase him, but he knows it could have been him, if he’d been born a girl. And so we did what had to be done. My father died the way he lived.”

He pauses a moment, taking in the expression on his lovers’ faces, from Lan Xichen’s horror at that confession to Nie Mingjue’s anger that once again, this took clever man made all the wrong choices.

“Nobody else would have dared to stand against him,” Jin Guangyao adds, smiling feverishly, his gaze on Nie Mingjue. “But I’ve always been one to do what others wouldn’t. Someone has to get their hands dirty, Da-ge. I’ve never minded doing it when my turn came. I wonder if you will, now that you know the truth? You’ve always been such a champion of justice, always telling others to be righteous. Let’s see what choice you make, now that justice isn’t such an easy thing to decide.”

#jin guangyao #nie mingjue #lan xichen #3zun #mdzs #not super happy with this one #I think jgy is probably pretty ooc here oops?#jau writes #today sucks I just needed to get something done #Anonymous

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symphonyofsilence · 6 months

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i feel like mdzs doesn't have a happy ending at all, or like doesn't feel "complete". wwx runs away from the past but is reminiscing constantly and that never gets solved. the whole premise of gossip and mob mentality also doesn't get solved because jgy was guilty and so it was justified?? like... i don't know how to feel about this book. is it badly written or purposely incomplete? are the main couple so nonsensical in their displays of love because it's commentary or because it's actually romantic?

I agree that it doesn't have a happy ending. The only character that I can think of that got an actual happy ending is Mianmian. And maybe LWJ. WWX is happy and satisfied at the end of the novel on the surface but just as you said, he keeps reminiscing and he didn't get closure for all of the considerable trauma he went through -up to and including dying. And he clearly wants to go back to Lotus Pier. I think it's supposed to be a bittersweet ending.

I think the gossip and mob mentality never gets solved because realistically it will never get solved. All it can be is addressed and warned about. And I think where we get this is precisely when JGY was guilty of some sins but what the people gossiped about was exactly what he wasn't guilty of. Immediately after his death, people started to gossip about how he was so narcissistic that he made a statue of himself to be worshipped. While that statue was actually his mother's. WWX here notes that:

But there was no use in saying all that. Nobody knew with more clarity than Wei WuXian that nobody would care and nobody would believe him. Anything related to Jin GuangYao would be given the most malicious conjectures and passed through the mouths of the crowd

WWX draws parallels between himself & JGY the moment the crowd turns against JGY & asks WWX for help, too. Then in the inn, WWX overhears people speculating about why JGY left Sisi alive. And this goes so far that even people who were gossiping eagerly at that table feel uncomfortable. But the crowd still goes on shamelessly. Noting that nobody knows who they are here. Indicating that they know what they're doing is shameful, but they don't care. Even the phrase "what goes around, comes around" which at the beginning of the story was used for WWX by the people at the inn, is used for JGY too at the end.

But we're given a glimpse of hope for the future of society through the next generation. Children who saw the notorious MXY and trusted him accepted his help and advice, and eventually accepted him, Children, who gave the Yiling Laozu and the ghost general a chance to prove themselves and when they did, they changed their minds and defended them. Children who started shipping Wangxian before WWX himself did-or knew that he was gay. Through JL helping MXY escape from JC even if he was still weary of him because of the previous scandal that got him kicked out of the Jin Sect, giving him a second chance, supporting his relationship with LWJ, overcoming his internalized homophobia, and JL who saw that even if JGY, WWX, and WN gave him reasons to hate them they also gave him reasons to love them, and chose to not choose hate, and chose to mourn JGY, JL who when scolded for mourning JGY by the most notorious gossiper of the old generation in the story he told him off.

I do agree that the story is sort of incomplete. But I think it's incomplete in a complete way-...I'm not making any sense. what I mean is that I think it's narratively complete, but the story of the characters still goes on. But they each do get a closure, for better or for worse. and that's where we leave them. Right after they get their closures. But what they will do with the rest of their lives is left unsaid. But it didn't need to be said. The main story that the book told; the Sunshot Campaign, The 5 great sects, 3 Zun, Yi City Arc, and Wangxian all came to their ends. no subplot was left without a resolution and no character was left with an unknown fate. NHS's years-long revenge plot came to fruit and he saw the demise of the man who killed his brother, that was the end of the 3 Zun and NHS's only goal for many years and he achieved that, but now he's left with the dusty hat of his san-ge, and a sect that he's more or left driven to ruin, and none of his family and friends. He will come to be the next Xiandu, but he will be the loneliest social butterfly. LXC finally found out the truth about JGY's deeds and how his other sworn brother got killed, and he chose to still love JGY, he chose to die with him, and when he was saved by JGY in the last minute, he knew that his love was returned. and now he's the only one left of the 3 Zun, and with the knowledge that A-Yao would never move against him. Maybe one day he can go back to be Lan-Zongzhu, maybe one day he can wield Shouyue and not see A-Yao's blood on it, maybe one day he can celebrate his brother finally getting together with his beloved, maybe he can still not end up like his father, but not today. LSZ now knows about his Wen heritage, he now has an undead biological family member & he will reconcile his Wen and Lan heritage and honor what remains of his long-gone sect. Along with Wen Ning who now has a last-living family member, and will try to find his new purpose in life...or death. SL goes around the world to continue his quest with XXC now with XXC's sword and the hope to one day see his reincarnation again. JL has almost all the truths and he has decided what to do with it, He will not choose hatred & anger, he will give people second chances. he will mourn what's to be mourned and move on with his life. Being a sect leader at his age is not easy and he's still struggling and stumbling & he needs to learn to ask for help more. but he's doing his best and he has his uncles and his friends to help him. JC now knows what WWX has done for him, why he needed to do what he eventually came to do, how he honored their sect, and why he left, even if I think WWX didn't correctly communicate to him that he loved JC personally and what he did wasn't only out of duty, and JC with his insecurity and unshakable belief that he's unlovable wouldn't reach this conclusion, he more or less got closure and he can now step in the path of healing. He who was continuously after WWX in both halves of the story in the end stopped JL from following WWX and said "Let everyone go back to where they belong." He would go back to being Jiang-Zongzhu and JL's jiujiu and since what he most cares about is his sect and family I think as long as those two are fine he would be content, if not necessarily happy, and maybe one day, he and WWX will reconcile, too. And Wangxian have each other. WWX has someone who he knows will catch him if he jumps down from a tree. and LWJ will not let thousand-year rules dictate to him what is wrong and what is right, won't see the world in black and white, won't let his sect stand between him and happiness, and will love someone flawed freely and untamed, and flawed. And maybe one day WWX will go back to Lotus Pier and drink Lotus Wine with JC and know that he had always had and will always have a home and a family there.

The ending of MZDS is I think above all, realistic. and in reality, life goes on. and every ending is a new beginning. we left the characters at the end of the story but there is a whole universe still going on inside the book where the characters will go on with their lives after the storm, and they will live on inside our minds as well. I think the way their stories are not entirely complete is actually a very incredible way for the characters to forever live in our minds. For instance, if JC told WWX about his sacrifice the Yunmeng Shuangjie fully reconciled and went back to what they were we wouldn't have this much collective brainrot as we have now. And realistically, WWX's and JC's relationship couldn't go back to what it was that quickly, it needed a whole book of its own.

It's also one of the reasons that I think WWX's issues being unresolved is intentional. BC realistically people stick to the coping mechanisms they know and if WWX thinks that repressing, ignoring, running away, and pretending that everything is fine has worked so far for him, then he wouldn't let it go. Especially since overconfidence is also one of his character flaws. He knows best. (so much that he even makes decisions for other people. And assumes their feelings and thoughts without ever asking them about them) If he thinks it's fine then it's fine. And the way he had to face his repressed emotions about the core transfer when JC made him talk about it for the first and only time, how he quickly turned away from JC after the Guanyin Temple before he could say anything, and how he kept repressing his emotions and yearning for LP & his remaining family (he stops himself before asking more about JC & JL from the Juniors in the extras), and is maladjusted in the CR show that MXTX hasn't just forgotten about it. She does see it as an unresolved issue. And when MXTX truly wants to give her characters growth she will do it. [Spoiler for TGCF & SVSSS] like how Shen Yuan finally comes to embrace his feelings for LBH & his own identity & his emotional- openness and breaks away from the way the system wants him to act and becomes his true self. And the way Xie Lian finally lets go of his guilt over Wu Ming and learns what he told HC is also true for himself, too ("what matters is you, and not the state of you.") And he gets free from his shackles. He has a real, genuine talk with MQ & he reconciles with his two best friends. He even forgives Jun Wu. And everyone except Beefleaf and Junmei gets a happy ending.

about Wangxian...well, I honestly don't know what's with all this romanticizing non-con in the romance genre. I don't really think it's in the book to be criticized. What MXTX does is that she acknowledges that those are wrong things to do with LWJ being distressed by what he's done when he kisses WWX without his consent, and WWX feeling guilty after he kisses LWJ when he's drunk but not enough to stop doing that and then feeling guilty again when he does the do with him when he's drunk after that (until LWJ just fully goes for it without asking for consent or paying any attention to WWX's protests AGAIN but now skips the guilt phase), Fengqing being horrified by HC's stalking and obsession and HC feeling ashamed, too, and LQG & SQQ being horrified by LBH's obsession, stalking, imposing and non-con advances. But then it all gets solved by the good ol' "jokes on you they're into that". (Except for SQQ I think) So I guess those are there in the story to, as what some with those specific kinks would say, spice things up.

And as for the lack of communication, MXTX does satirize it in SVSSS where LBH's advances are seen as murder attempts by SQQ but I think in MDZS it's there to create drama and slow-burn and highlight the depth of LWJ's love when LXC finally explains to WWX that all this time LWJ has believed that WWX knows that he loves him, has rejected him & his flirtings are only mocking his feelings but still has chosen to dedicate himself to WWX & follow him around everywhere for the rest of his life (and we know this kind of devotion and following one's loved-one everywhere and helping them whenever necessary but never undermining their decisions is how MXTX depicts true love with HC saying to XL "I'm forever your most devoted believer", SQQ saying to LBH "this time, wherever you go, this master will accompany you." And SQH saying to Mobei Jun "My king, please let me follow you the rest of my life!". Usually, there are supporting characters who are also loyal and loving towards the MC and used to always follow and help them (JC, FX & MQ), but due to some other concerns, they had to leave the MC. But the love interest's priority is always the MC & nothing can set them apart.) the lack of communication is very in character for both of them as both of them are people who would rather (literally) die than talk about their feelings. And WWX just DOESN'T understand when people show their love for him with acts of service. So I'd say it depicts two flawed people in love with each other.

#mdzs #cql #the untamed #wei wuxian #lan wangji #wangxian #asks

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midnyghtmadnes · 3 years

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Thoughts

So... I finished SVSSS. Gonna just stream out my thoughts. Will be long cause I wanna cover all my final opinions. Then I’ll shut up about it lol.

So, all in all, the novel was enjoyable and fun. Definitely can't say I have the same emotional investment in the characters as I do in MDZS though, except SY, he's my favorite.

To start, I guess this is where fanfics will come into play, but I want more SY and Airplane interactions. They're the only two that can truly understand the other's situation and I think that’d make for a lot of interesting and fun interactions. Though at the same time it's also funny how they have that understanding but their current relationship is basically just like, not a love-hate relationship. But a.. somewhat camaraderie I'll help ya out maybe if you need it-but I also don't particularly like you, relationship. Still, I am falling onto the Cucumberplane wagon (not in a shippy way though).

As for MBJ and Airplane.. I just wish the novel went into the status of their relationship after everything that happened. SQH was constantly stressed out by him and seemed to have had his share of beatings from MBJ. I saw shipping stuff with them as I was reading it and I was like.. ehhhh? At that point the only connection I knew was that MBJ was the one who was supposed to kill him, so I was like ?? Where did that come from. By the end of the extras, I wanna say I'm on board with it lol, but I just wish we saw more.

Tianlang-Jun and Zhuzhi-Lang... :( I love them and am really sad for them. And yes, I do constantly forget that ZZL killed Gongyi Xiao (who I liked a lot), but come on. He's snek Wen Ning and you can't tell me otherwise. I also actually like Shen Jiu's character. Which is kinda funny thinking about it, cause for example I know many ppl find JGY to be a sympathetic villain, and while I can understand, I still hate him lol. But SJ, who feels very similar to JGY in some ways, I find him really interesting and want to explore him more (that's what fanfics are for ayyy). Funny how all the antagonists of this story caught my eye lol. I didn't care for any of the villains in MDZS in terms of nuance (not that they were poorly written, but they just weren't the Type™ I fall for). But SV managed to get me to want to know more about all of them.

Bingqiu final assessment.... complete indifference. It wasn't as terrible as it could've been, and the extras did make it better, but idk. I flipped flopped a lot as I was reading regarding whether I was okay with it. The 50s chapters, no. Then it got better. Then chapter 80 happened and I was just.... it was genuinely painful getting through that chapter lol. I was constantly pausing and just.. collecting myself. Then the extras and I was like, hmmm it seems.. ok I guess. But I still think it's not the healthiest relationship. You can’t tell me his spiel in chapter 79 isn’t still a total guilt trip. Xin Mo exacerbates his negative emotions, it doesn’t make them up. He’s also constantly jealous even in the extras, making comments of suspicion on the slightest things and just wanting SQQ’s attention for himself. His whole world revolves around SY, and that’s just not a healthy thing for any relationship. It’s undeniably obsessive, and while I don’t see LBH acting on his jealousy, I think that’s only because “it’d make Shizun sad” and not because it goes against his morality. I think LBM is just as capable of doing messed up stuff (murder, torture, etc.) as LBG.

I also just feel like there's something that just doesn't connect between SY in the whole novel, and SY in the extras. By chapter 78 he still did not seem particularly reciprocative of LBH's advances. And even within the extras he's very no-touchy and anti-PDA. He tends to refuse LBH’s requests for intimate moments (until the crocodile tears guilt him into doing what LBH wants) and overall is easily embarrassed, like he's not confident in this relationship. I think at the least more lines of buildup should’ve been added, particularly in moments where it was just the two of them.

And you know what also kinda bugs me about it? I dislike how much the story pushed on that SY was confidently straight since birth. If you want to convince me that the initially ‘straight’/uninterested character ends up falling for another guy, just don’t push it so hard in my face contradicting that. Wei Ying flirted with girls, cool yeah. But the novel never gave the impression he was completely closed off to the idea. With how WY is written, I can totally see him being bi. But SY is more like, well I somehow ended up raising the ML as gay but hey that’s not so bad I guess, at the last minute. I can't say I ship LiuShen either, but I can definitely see the appeal when the canon alternative may easily not float your boat. Nothing beats Wangxian in my heart though 💕

As I expected, am sad with how the relationship with Cang Qiong Mountain ended up. I mean I guess it wasn't necessarily on bad terms, but basically his other disciples are left without their shizun and the sect's whole familial relationship is scattered. I guess it's because I appreciate Wangxian staying in the Cloud Recesses, having this space of theirs and the Jingshi that they can call home. I read the fanfics that have LWJ making WY a lotus pond out front and just their beautiful domestic post-canon life. I love that they can go out night hunting with the juniors. They can go out and travel, just the two of them, when they want. They could retire one day if they wanted. But they'll also always have a family to come back to. LQR begrudgingly accepting WY in time. The bread and butter that is Yunmeng bros reconciliation. Bingqiu.. doesn't really have anything like that. For instance, Liu Qingge and LBH are on terms that I don't feel could ever be recuperated the way WWX and JC could. I don't think Bingqiu could ever stay at CQM in complete comfort. So that's just a little sad.

Also is it just me who, when reading, would always imagine TLJ with short hair, even tho nobody ever has short hair in these novels lol.

Anyway lol, I think that about covers everything I can think of. If you got this far, you the real one ✌🏼

#svsss #scumbag villain #scumbag self saving system #shen qingqiu #luo binghe #liu qingge #shen jiu #yue qingyuan #luo bingmei #zhuzhi lang #tianlang jun #mobei jun #shang qinghua

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alice-in-wonderart · 4 years

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I really like your writing and i was hoping you could do what you did with lxc jgy and nhs and i was wondering if you could do that with the juniors thx

OHMYGOSH, so many people are requesting UWU. ❤️ When I said the Juniors get the most love around here, I wasn't joking! (which of course is great, our lovely boys deserve the love) A day after making a post about having 3 similar asks, appeared a wild 4th one, so here we are, killing 4 birds with one stone! From what I recall, the boys are 16 (legal in my country) but for the sake of being politically accurate and tastefully uncreepy, I'll still age them up ~ This was quite difficult to write, since I'd never even so much as considered writing anything remotely un-soft for the boys, but I hope you ike it anyways. Somehow the softest hcs turned out to be for XXC too 🤣

Enjoy the spice, my lovelies! ❤️

P.S. Thank you all for being so kind, you guys make writing a true pleasure ✌️

P.P.S I know it took me forever to write this! i want to apologise for that, since university started, writing has become a luxury and quite frankly, writing nsfw for the juniors was nearly impossible to do 😵 Await more content in the *hopefully* near future.

Jin Ling

My gosh, getting him to undress would be difficult. For real, even after a thousand years of being in a relationship with you, he'd still be embarrassed when it comes to physical touch of any sort. Not to say he wouldn't want it, he just has to go through a semi-tsundere mini meltdown first. But worry not, it would only take him a minute to get over it.

Jin Ling? More like Jin Long. (I'm sorry) He may not be the girthiest of them all, but let me tell you - he takes great pride in his length.

He may act tough and macho, but underneath all that hot-headedness is somebody, who absolutely loves being coddled. More often than not, he'd let you take over the reigns, but believe me he won't go down without a fight. He is the absolute dictionary definition of a bratty bottom. In fact he the brattiest bottom. You want him to undress? Undress him yourself if you're so eager. But in reality, he'd be ready to indulge you in absolutely everything you wish.

Jin Ling is a sucker for praise. Tell him how good he is, praise him and he'll become putty in your hands. There's nothing he loves more than hearing you moan his name out in utter bliss. Knowing he's the one who brings you so much pleasure really strokes his ego, so to say.With Jin Ling, gentle gestures and kind words can get you very far.

He gets surprisingly dominant and demanding when jealous. The one sure way to get him to pound you into the mattress is making him jealous. It really only takes a random unsuspecting boy to chat you up the wrong way and you'd be in for the dicking of a lifetime. (as an aftermath, following a metric ton of complaining and passive agressive anger) He would absolutely mark up your skin as well - a precaution.

Sometimes, he might MIGHT get jealous of the other Juniors. Maybe you'd spent more time with them, or payed them more attention. Sometimes he'd be at work and miss out. Then, you'd have to remind him, that no matter what, only he gets to see you sprawled on his bed, his name on your lips, and tje sweet smell of sex in the air.

Speaking of work, you would be his best stress relief. After a long day of boring sect business, returning home and getting to ravish you would be his ideal evening, although he would never admit it. During those moments, where exhaustion would get the best of both of you, yet sleep would not come, passionate night of lovemaking would be the remedy for all your problems. And with those burning emotions in his heart, such nights would be the most memorable.

Lan Sizhui

You'd think Lan Sizhui would be the purest, most innocent of the Juniors, and you wouldn't be wrong, but at the same time you wouldn't be right either. Overtime, he'd transform from this sweet, gentle lover, who always makes sure you finish first, to this super experimental, utterly intoxicating beaST, who still makes sure you finish first. The more he gets accustomed to your body, the more confident and daring he'd become.

He's been pretty touch-starved for most of his life, so getting intimate with you would take some readjustment from him. Every single touch would excite him, every gentle moan would make his heart melt. And this sensitivity of his would, in turn, seek intimacy even more. He'd want nothing more than to hold you close and make you shiver in delight, to hear his name escape your lips and have you all to himself.

He'd be absolutely willing to experiment. Anything you'd want to try, he'd love to try with you. Here is a good time to say, he's also a pretty versatile switch. Whether you'd want to set your own pace and ride him to oblivion, or let him tie you up and make you see stars all depends on your mood. He loves it all and is a natural in both.

In fact, having you tied up with his ribbon (seems it runs in the family) is one of his favourite sights. To him it is so beautiful and delicate, yet at the same time it's his way of being possessive, of showing the world that you are his lover, that you belong to each other.

This boy has STAMINA. We all know the Lans are a force to be reckoned with, that underneath that sophisticated demeanor, polite gestures and snow white robes there is pure strength, acquired over years of training. That strength allows Sizhui to last for ROUNDS. If you're lucky enough (and away from Gusu) he could go nearly all night long with little effort.

One thing you found out completely by accident was his love for bitemarks..on himself. As long as he could hide them with ease, the moment he feels teeth on his skin, it's game over. And he wouldn't verbally admit it, but the sounds he'd make and how he'd move to give you more access to his skin is a perfect enough sign.

He isn't too rough per se and would much prefer lovemaking over straight up fucking, so quickies aren't all that common. He wants to take his time with you and explore your body. He'd nearly always rather wait until the bed at home is an option.

In general, sex with a Lan is like sex with an elf - beautiful, breathtaking, memorable. Lan Sizhui is no exception, though he'd go to great lengths for you. After all, there's nothing better than seeing you fucked out, drowning in pleasure.

Lan Jingyi

This boy, my gosh, this boy. Out of all the Juniors, this boy is the most dominant one. And when I say dominant, I mean he is the only one, who comes with all the jazz - bondage, teasing, roleplay, you name it - he'll do it. He is lowkey the kinkiest, who'll do nearly anything just to get you off. And honestly, he takes great pride in that.

His sex drive is that of a goddamn rabbit. There is rarely a moment he wouldn't want to be buried between your legs. His motto is "the more the wetter better". For that reason, being away from you for long is his worst nightmare. Not being able to hold you? To kiss you? To make love to you? Blasphemous. So, the moment you two see each other, after some time of being away, he'd be all over you. Of course, sex is far from being the only thing on his mind, but it it's a giant plus, which he wouldn't want to miss.

Lan Jingyi is a sucker for legs, no matter what length, especially thighs. He loves feeling you wrap your legs around him, or squeeze his head between your thighs. He is a firm believer, that this is the best way to go. Nine times out of ten, whenever you two are making out, his hands would be all over your legs. He just can't help himself.

Out of all the juniors, since he is the most experimental, so with some coaxing he might agree to a threesome. Of course, that would be much later in your relationship, when your mutual trust is hard as a rock. (and not only that) Though, he'd want to pick the 3rd person involved! (most likely Sizhui)

He would absolutely introduce food in bed. Actually, that would happen completely accidentally. It would all start with a handful of loquats, which you'd bring to him while away on a trip together. You'd feed each other the lush fruits between heated kisses, enjoying each other's company and he'd realize, that he could combine 2 of his favourite things - you and food. From that moment on, he'd try out all kinds of food - from sweet to salty, deserts, fruits and everything in between.

He would absolutely want to get you off somewhere in Gusu. The very idea of doing something so dirty and profane at a place with so many strict rules would turn him on to no end. And the thrill of potentially getting caught would be like a catalyst to him. The library pavillion? The cold springs? Just let it be in Gusu. His own chambers just aren't satisfying enough, they aren't risky enough.

He would quickly get addicted to you and your body, and when that happens - there is just no going back. Though I doubt you'd want to.

Ouyang Zizhen

Ouyang Zizhen is quite the catch through and through. There is nobody quite as cheeky as this man right here. As the proud, versatile, daredevil-esque boy that he is, he would love to tease the everloving god out of you in every single way possible. But the moment you tease him back, he'd be in shambles. He would totally sneak inappropriate touches whenever in public, but run a hand up his leg under the table while having dinner, or perhaps a friendly get-together, and suddenly his cheeks would go beet red and he'd go through a mini existential crisis.

Your long, heated nights together would become his reckoning. He'd never truly admit it, but goddamn, he'd become so addicted, to the feeling, the excitement. Especially when it comes to having sex in public.

Speaking of, while he wouldn't openly talk about your adventures in bed, he'd absolutely drop little hints about it in piblic, whenever you're freshly fucked and easy to tease. Intentionally letting himself look more disheveled than usual, pointing out any "little marks" showing on your skin and of course - that knowing smirk of his. And believe me, he fully expects payback.

The other member who might, MIGHT agree to a threesome would be Ouyang Zizhen. He is a curious man, who would like to try anything you have to offer, though jealousy could be a side effect. He'd want to have a say in who'd be the 3rd person. And while having two women succumb to his every beg and call is a very well-hidden desire of his, at this point he is so invested and in love with you, that such thoughts are out of the question.

The one thing that gets him riled up in bed is wax play. What started as "lighting a candle to set the mood right" ended up being one of the most passionate, lust-ridden, nights of his life. He loves how wax drips down on your skin, peeling off of your every curve. He'd get different kinds of candles, with all kinds of fancy textures amd smells, just to watch the expensive wax drip all over you.

Teasing is his go-to. He is a master of teasing. And his specialty is edging. He could prolong your orgasm, get you to practically beg for release, all while he's hard as a rock and still keep edging you. And his mouth is his secret weapon.

He'd learn how to play your body like a violin, all to leave you begging for more. He could go on for hours. And he would. Because of that, the orgasms would be godly. And he takes great pride in that as well.

Xiao Xingchen

This man is the dictionary definition of soft. His kisses are sweet, his touches are caring and his sex is phenomenally passionate. Intimacy is important to him, since he hasn't had the chance and desire to reveal himself before many people. (except you, that is.) No, he isn't just a soft lover. He is THE soft lover.

He is the king of love-making. To him, your pleasure comes first and there is nothing he loves more, than to hold you close and feel your body on his.

He generally prefers to bottom and leave the reigns in your hands, so he could just hold you close and enjoy your body to its fullest, but occasionally he'd absolutely be down to switch it up and spend hours loving you deep into the night. (his words, not mine) Knowing you are there, on top of him, riding him into oblivion, he'd almost wish he could see you. But then, he'd run his hands down your body, hear your angelic voice and immediately lose his mind into pleasure once more.

Lovemaking is his absolute specialty and gentle passion is HIGHKEY his forté. Each sweet touch of his, every choked breath, every heated kiss is so full of love and desire, you could drown in it. He wears his heart on his sleeve and whenever you end up tangled in the sheets, he pours all of his emotions into bringing you ecstasy.

He is extremely touchy, since that is his way of seeing you. He loves to just glide his hands over your smooth skin, exploring every curve, enjoying the warmth of your body against his. His fingers are long and nimble, so he uses them to his advantage. And somehow, every time he touches you, he finds something new to love about you. Because of that, being tied up is a little specific with him. He would let you do it, but only occasionally, since that would leave him completely at your mercy WITHOUT being able to feel you.

He is absolutely a fan of boobs. Big, small, size has never mattered. He loves the warmth, the softness and the fact, that whenever he lays his head on your chest, he can hear your heartbeat.

Whisper in his ear amd he's a second away from breaking. Moan his name and he's a goner. His ears are pretty sensitive, so hearing your voice and feeling your breath would turn him rock hard in record time. Call it a voice kink, call it obsession, whatever it is, it's the surest way to make him nearly beg for your touch.

Xiao Xingxhen is a gentle, yet madly passionate lover, who is ready to give you the stars. And once you get undressed for the first time, he'd find himself so utterly in love with you, he'd get nearly obsessed. And while extremities are not his thing, it wouldn't be uncommon for him to gently lead you away to your shared bed, whenever out on a stroll, just to undress you and kiss your breath away.

Thank you for reading~

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coffintownkids · 3 years

Text

Alrighty! Ch. 32 is done and such brings an end to the 朝露 arc. I’m sure y’all remember the cute scene in The Untamed/CQL when WWX comes across a group of kids playing make-believe about the Sunshot Campaign. This is the chapter where that takes place. However, as previously mentioned, we’ve actually never met pretty much any of the characters involved first-hand. So this is again slowly filling the readers in about how the world perceives all these characters.

I couldn’t decide what part I liked best...So you get the entire scene! Very long post beneath the cut.

*EDITED* @weishenmewwx was nice enough to help me fix a couple of errors. Thank You!!!

The group of children stopped chasing it, then gathered together to start seriously wracking their brains over it, “What do we do since no one shot down the Sun? It fell by itself, so who’s the Leader now?”

One of them raised a hand, “It’s obviously me! I’m Jīn Guāngyáo and I killed the greatest villain from the House of Wēn!”

Wèi Wúxiàn sat on the inn’s front steps and watched on with great pleasure.

In games like this, there was boundless high regard for the Chief Cultivator Liǎnfang-Zūn. Of course, everyone would welcome playing that role the most. Although his background made people too embarrassed to speak of it, it was precisely because of it that him climbing to the highest position made people gasp even more in admiration of his achievements. During the Sunshot Campaign, he had acted as a spy for a number of years and had been a natural at it. He had run around in circles deceiving the entire Wēn Sect of Qíshān both inside and out, having them divulge countless secrets without even realizing it. After the Sunshot Campaign, he was fawned over in every possible way with terrific amounts of cleverness and an extreme variety of methods. Finally, he took the position of Chief Cultivator and became the person fully deserving of ranking first among the multitude of cultivation Houses. Such a life can be called legendary. If was playing, he would also want to try out for the part of Jīn Guāngyáo. Picking this little boy to be the Leader was just common sense!

So JGY is super well-liked by everyone, or so we’re led to believe at this point in the story. It’s mentioned in the novel very early on that he is JGS’s bastard, but it’s definitely pretty much glossed over and this certainly makes it sound like nobody cared about his “embarrassing” history. (We will come to learn this is, in fact, bullshit.) BUT, WWX does seem to think quite well of him.

Fun language bit about the “fawned over in every possible way with terrific amounts of cleverness and an extreme variety of methods.” The sentence uses 百般, 千般, 万般 to show the increase of how much praise got heaped upon him as 百=100, 千=1,000, and 万=10,000.

My other takeaway, which I think the show did a pretty bad job at conveying, was the passage of time and that JGY was actually with the Wēn Sect for years.

Moving on.

Another one of them protested, “I’m Niè Míngjué and I’ve won the most battles and have had the most captives surrender to me. I should be the Leader!”

‘Jīn Guāngyáo’ said, “But I’m the Chief Cultivator.”

‘Niè Míngjué’ raised his fist, “So what if you’re Chief Cultivator. You’re also my sān-dì, so you won’t see me running off with my tail between my legs.”

As expected, ‘Jīn Guāngyáo’ was rather well-suited at getting into character. He hunched his shoulders and ran away.

Sān-dì (三弟) just means third brother. AKA JGY was the youngest within 3zun.

Then another kid said, “You’re the one that died young.”

Since he had chosen to be a certain cultivation head, he naturally had been looking forward to being said cultivation head a little bit. ‘Niè Míngjué’ got mad, “Jīn Zixuān, you died earlier than I did. You had an even shorter life!”

‘Jīn Zixuān’ was unconvinced, “So what if I died younger? I was ranked Number Three!”

“Being ranked Number Three just means your looks were ranked Number Three!”

At that point, one of the little boys seemed tired of both running and standing, so he slowly walked over by the steps and sat down by Wèi Wúxiàn. He waved his hand like he was some sort of mediator and said, “Alright already, there’s no need to fight about it. I’m the Yílíng Lǎozǔ, so I’m the most awesome.”

Wèi Wúxiàn, “……”

He glanced down and, sure enough, the little kid was carrying a little branch at his waist that was probably meant to be Chénqíng.

There was actually a child pure enough to not bother arguing about good and evil. He was only debating the value of combat abilities and had willing taken up the honor of being the Yílíng Lǎozǔ.

Another kid said, “No way. I’m the Sāndú Shèngshǒu and I’m the most awesome.”

The ‘Yílíng Lǎozǔ’ rather understandingly said, “Jiāng Chéng! What can you do that’s better than me? When haven’t you lost to me? How is it a good idea for you to say you’re the most awesome? Aren’t you embarrassed?”

‘Jiāng Chéng’ said, “Hmph! How am I better than you? Do you remember how you died?”

Wèi Wúxiàn’s faint smile got wiped right off his face once his meaning sunk in.

It was like being jabbed with a highly poisonous needle without warning and it sent faint prickling pain throughout his entire body.

Oof. That is a lot.

The ‘Yílíng Lǎozǔ’ next to him clapped, “Look at me! On my left is Chénqíng, on my right is the Tiger Seal. Plus I have the Ghost General. There are none beneath Heaven that are my equal! Hahahaha…” He had a stick in his left hand, a stone in his right, and was laughing hysterically, “Wēn Níng, come out!” A kid in the back of the crowd raised his hand and weakly said, “I’m here…that’s…I want to say…during the Sunshot Campaign, I didn’t die, either...”

Wèi Wúxiàn felt that he couldn’t not interrupt.

He said, “Fellow cultivators, can I ask you a question?”

The children had never had an adult take part when they played this game before, let alone one that didn’t scold them and was completely serious about asking them a question. The ‘Yílíng Lǎozǔ’ was giving him a strange and guarded look as he said, “What do you want to ask?”

Wèi Wúxiàn said, “Why don’t you have any people from the Lán Sect of Gūsū?”

“We do!”

“Where are they?”

The ‘Yílíng Lǎozǔ’ pointed at a kid that hadn’t opened his mouth to say a single word from the start, “That’s him.”

Wèi Wúxiàn looked at him and, sure enough, he was completely fine-featured and looked like a charming child. He had a clean, white string wrapped around his forehead to serve as his head ribbon. He asked, “Who is he?”

The ‘Yílíng Lǎozǔ’ disdainfully curled his lip and said, “Lán Wàngjī!”

…Great. This group of children grasped his essence. If you’re playing the part of Lán Wàngjī you really ought to shut up and not talk!

Then suddenly, the corners of Wèi Wúxiàn’s mouth began to curl again.

That little poisoned needle got pulled out and he didn’t know what cranny it got tossed into, but all the stinging pain had instantly been swept away. Wèi Wúxiàn said to himself, “It’s both wonderful and strange. He’s such a stuffy person. Why does he always make me feel so happy?”

*yelling* Why does he make you so happy, WWX? Any guesses?

I’ve seen this translated as “boring” instead of “stuffy” so I’ll explain a bit. The word used is 闷 (mèn) which can be read as boring, so that’s not wrong. But, it’s a little more nuanced than that. It can also mean something “sealed tight” or “suffocate” or “shut indoors.” Like how a hot room without circulation can be called “stuffy.” But in English, we can use stuffy to mean someone that’s kinda old-fashioned and very stuck on being prim and proper. Which certainly is someone people might consider “boring”! I just didn’t think “boring” alone really captured it though.

Of course, this is when LWJ finally emerges from his Fortress of Solitude (after needing time to get through his Gay Panic.)

When Lán Wàngjī came downstairs, he saw Wèi Wúxiàn sitting on the steps and sharing a steamed bun with a group of children. Wèi Wúxiàn was eating his bun while directing two children that were back-to-back in front of him. “……There are currently countless Wēn cultivators before. They’re all armed and they’ve got you completely surrounded. Keep your eyes sharp. Yes, just like that. OK. Lán Wàngjī, pay attention. This isn’t the current you during peacetime. You’re covered in blood! Your killing intent is so heavy! Your expression is so fierce! Wèi Wúxiàn, get a bit closer to him. Aren’t you going to twirl your flute? Let’s see you twirl it one-handed. Have pizzazz. Do you know what pizzazz is? Come let me teach you.” ‘Wèi Wúxiàn’ made an “oh” sound and handed over the thin stick he was carrying. Wèi Wúxiàn rather skillfully and swiftly twirled ‘Chénqíng’ around between two of his fingers, causing the group of kids to whoop with excitement.

Lán Wàngjī, “……”

He quietly walked over and Wèi Wúxiàn saw him coming, so he brushed off the dust from his backside and called out his goodbyes to the kids. It had been so easy to just stand up and walk along the road with a smile. It was oddly like being drugged.

Lán Wàngjī, “……”

Wèi Wúxiàn, “Hahahahahaha, I’m sorry, Hánguāng-Jūn. I ended up sharing the breakfast I bought for you with them. I’ll buy more for us in a moment.”

Lán Wàngjī, “Okay.”

Wèi Wúxiàn, “How about it? Weren’t those two kids just now cute? Who do you suspect the kid with the string around his head was imitating? Hahahaha…”

He was speechless for a moment, then Lán Wàngjī ultimately couldn’t help saying, “……What exactly did I do last night?”

It definitely couldn’t have been anything simple. Otherwise, why did it make Wèi Wúxiàn keep laughing???

Wèi Wúxiàn kept waving his hand, “No, no, no, no, no. You didn’t do anything. I was just being silly, hahahahahaha…Alright, ahem, Hánguāng-Jūn, I swear I’ll talk business.”

Lán Wàngjī said, “Go ahead.”

Apparently WWX missed his calling and should have gotten into theater!

And poor LWJ is still panicking.

So now they’re off to Shǔdōng and we’ll be starting the Yi City arc next.

#mdzs #ctk reads mdzs #mdzs translation #my translation

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xiyao-feels · 3 years

Text

Part Two: Claims about NMJ and NHS

Intro - Pt 1 - Pt 2 - Pt 3 - Pt 4

NMJ

1) NMJ wished to protect NHS from cultivating with the sabre as a youth.

I don't think he tells us this in quite so many words, but it seems implied by the flashback scenes: his giving NHS the paintbrush, the bit where he takes 修刀 and gives NHS 修心, and course him literally telling NHS that whatever NHS wishes to do, he'd support it.

As far as I can tell there's no evidence of this. Now, to be fair, we don't see them as children in MDZS, but there is not as far as I can tell any sign that NMJ has ever done anything but strongly desire that NHS work on the sabre. Indeed, even at Hejian during Sunshot, the reason he overhears MY and LXC's conversation is because he is bringing NHS' sabre to LXC so that NHS will not be able to escape practicing with it. He certainly does not renew any kind of commitment to allowing NHS to do what he wills before his death. In CQL, we see rather less, but as far as I can tell there doesn't seem to be anything that contradicts MDZS on this front.

2) In his heart, NMJ carried significant doubts about the righteousness of Nie cultivation practices, including both the sabre-curse-inducing sabre cultivation and the practice of balancing the sabre spirits via corpses in the wall

This is quite central to the movie. It's arguably implicit in his desire to protect NHS from cultivating with the sabre, but beyond that, he is clearly extremely uncomfortable at NHS' moral challenge of Nie practices and believes at least partially that NHS has a point; moreover, it's implicit in his confessions to NHS in the tomb:

The Nie family's ancestors created this family foundation with great hardships. Unexpectedly, it was cursed by the sword spirit. I practiced swordsmanship hard and thought I could find a way to solve it, but I just followed the same old disastrous road of the ancestors.

And of course, his moral arc in the movie is about embracing those doubts and rejecting Nie tradition.

There is as far as I can tell no evidence of this in MDZS or CQL; in fact we don't learn anything about the Nie burial traditions in scenes where NMJ is still alive, and he never shows any doubt about the wisdom of sabre cultivation.

3) NMJ used to be "intelligent and wise"; it's due to the effects of the sabre curse that he is "moody and brutal".

We're explicitly told this by NHS at around 32:50: "Da-ge, look at you now, you have changed. When you were young, you were always wise and intelligent. Ever since you practiced swordsmanship, you've become moody and brutal." It's also backed up by the childhood flashbacks. The sharp distinction between NMJ and sabre-curse-affected-NMJ, shown by the way sabre-curse-affected NMJ is visually marked out, also helps suggest this.

Now, in MDZS and CQL, this…is complicated. Again, in MDZS, we don't see him as a child—the earliest we see him is still well past the time he began practicing sabre cultivation. And in ch 26 NHS does indeed suggest that sabre cultivation causes increasing irritability; it certainly seems plausible, indeed almost necessary, that he had less of a temper before he started practicing, and for that matter we see his anger grow worse as time goes on.

Nevertheless, we never actually see any trace of a calm-tempered NMJ in the text. Even by the beginning of Sunshot, his reputation as an angry man is firmly established. Consider the Nie men's reaction to his anger at their shit-talking MY, in the cave:

The entire cave was in a muddle. Everyone knew ChiFeng-Zun’s personality—the more one tried to explain, the angrier he was. Seeing that they probably couldn’t escape punishment and would have to tell the truth, nobody dared to speak a word.

Even his friend LXC says to MY, “MingJue-xiong has quite a fiery personality. It must have been truly difficult for you to have earned his approval.”

And NHS, who very much loves his brother even as he is also to some extent frightened of him, is never shown pining for the halcyon days of yore. Narratively speaking, sabre-affected NMJ is the only NMJ we know. I think…this is something a Nie brothers spinoff could theoretically do something interesting with, but the way it's presented in their relationship is all wrong.

In CQL, the evidence is much the same or just not shown. NMJ generally seems less angry (though even so, we see him be angry at the Nie men for mocking MY (in subjective CQL-Empathy, but still), at WWX for saying maybe let's not kill XY immediately, at JGY for having killed the Nie cultivators, etc.), and if anything his relationship with NHS seems better than it is in the novel, although this too is well after he's begun to practice sabre cultivation.

4) NMJ respects NHS' interests

When picking NHS to lead the other team in the tombs, NMJ tells us that NHS knows most about astronomy in the Nie, and NMJ clearly considers this valuable.

If NHS did actually have significant knowledge of cultivation, NMJ would probably respect that. However, this is what NMJ has to say about the interests NHS canonically has (ch 49):

Nie HuaiSang was absolutely delighted. He greeted Jin GuangYao again and again as he grabbed the fans in haste. Seeing how his younger brother reacted, Nie MingJue was so outraged that he almost found it amusing. He turned to Jin GuangYao, “Don’t send him those useless things!”

In a hurry, Nie HuaiSang dropped a few fans on the ground. Jin GuangYao picked them up for him and put them into his arms, “HuaiSang’s hobbies are quite elegant. He’s dedicated to art and calligraphy, and has no propensity for mischief. How can you say that they’re useless?”

Nie HuaiSang nodded as fast as he could, “Yes, Brother is right!”

Nie MingJue, “But sect leaders have no need for such things.”

In CQL, I believe we just don't see enough to say, although given that again, NHS' isn't actually studying cultivation, it seems likely NMJ' attitudes are much the same.

NHS

1) NHS is profoundly morally motivated

NHS is immediately and hugely upset with the practice of using corpses in the walls, explicitly on moral grounds, even though it was the practice of their ancestors, and even once he finds out that they're not (usually) Nie men, but evildoers.

Having been told by NZH that the blades need the corpses to suppress their aggressiveness: "But isn't that just sacrificing people?" "Zonghui, the Nie family have always been righteous. If we give sacrifice to it with life, we will become evil."

And then, to NMJ: "Wait. Let me ask you. Why is here called the Sword Sacrifice Hall? What is to balance sword spirit? I didn't understand before coming what exactly Sword Sacrifice Hall represents. I know it now. This is not balance but sacrificing flesh and blood!"

NZH: Second Young Master, you misunderstood it. Those corpses belong to evil men. The Nie family's ancestors had uses their bodies to balance the sword spirit. We also follow the ancestral instructions."

NHS: (to NZH) Evil men? (to NMJ) Aren't they human beings? Are you qualified for deciding their fate?

NMJ: The sword spirit is extremely dangerous. Generations of the Nie family all balanced the spirit in this way.

NHS: Even if they were wrong, you also follow their way?

In MDZS…I went over the chapters where he shows up, and I'm not actually sure we ever see him express a moral sentiment? I could be missing something, but it doesn't seem to be any kind of fundamental part of his character.

This is his reaction to WWX's first suggestion of demonic cultivation, when they're studying at CR (ch 14):

After thinking for a few moments, an expression of envy and yearning appeared on Nie HuaiSang’s face, “To be honest, Wei-xiong’s words were quite interesting. Spiritual energy can only be obtained through cultivation and taking great pains to form a golden core. It would take I-don’t-know-how-many years to do, especially for someone like me, whose talent seems as if it was gnawed by a dog when I was in my mother’s womb. But, resentful energy are from the fierce ghosts. If they can easily be taken and used, it would be beyond wonderful.”

And—granted this is several years down the line and NHS is keeping up his cover, but when NHS is explaining the sabre tomb to LWJ and WWX in chapter 26, he doesn't seem to have any problem with the practice. In fact, he tells us that he participated in choosing corpses for NMJ's sabre:

Nie HuaiSang was already shocked speechless. Wei WuXian inquired, “Who chooses the corpses that the Nie Sect uses for the Saber Hall?”

Nie HuaiSang replied with a glazed expression, “Usually, the past sect leaders chose and stored them when they were still alive. My brother passed away at an earlier age. He didn’t have enough, so I also helped him choose some… I kept whichever corpses that were complete with all limbs. I don’t know about anything other than this…”

In CQL...mmm. I rewatched all the pre-Sunshot scenes with him in it, and I do think he comes across as, at least, less amoral. We don't have the gee wouldn't demonic cultivation be nice scene, and you could definitely interpret him as being worried about the granny at Dafan, or even the temporary-puppets; he says you have to admire Songxiao's integrity and elegance as they depart; and while we don't see him be part of the initial 'maybe we shouldn't just immediately execute XY squad,' he does go da-ge after NMJ seems irritated at WWX, and after NMJ throws MY out he goes in and is like but why!!!! That said, in both cases where he challenges (and I use the term rather loosely for the da-ge after NMJ is irritated with WWX), he immediately backs down faced with NMJ's opposition. I really don't see any sign of the character who is so morally motivated and so sure of his own correctness he challenges NMJ, /in front of all their men/, and keeps up the challenge despite NMJ's consistent opposition.

2) NHS isn't really interested in JGY's gifts

At no point is he shown delighting over or interested in anything JGY gave him (except of course the flute for treating his brother), and in fact when JGY says that after the journey he will give him gifts he replies "San-ge, I am not afraid of difficult journeys. I'm not craving for toys either." On the contrary, gifts are associated with /NMJ/, who gave him a paintbrush as a child.

In MDZS, we see him explicitly delighted in and interested by JGY's gifts. In ch 49, we see him going over a dozen gold-lined fans, which turn out to be gifts from JGY; when JGY mentions he's going to play a song for NMJ, he expresses interest and mentions "the limited edition" JGY gave him "last time," and then when NMJ shouts at him to go to his room he runs instead "to the living room for the presents that Jin GuangYao had brought him;" when JGY shows up at Qinghe after the stairs incident, NHS "beamed as he got ready to go to Jin GuangYao and see what presents he brought this time." Considering how little time they have together on the page, the gifts show up a great deal.

In CQL, we mostly don't see a lot of NHS and JGY's interactions after JGY's legitimation but before NMJ's death, so it's impossible to directly say. However, he is at least shown to delight in and greatly value beautiful things (see at least the fan flashback in ep 35).

3) NHS is motivated by a desire for his brother's respect and the respect of their men.

This is the argument JGY uses which finally settles NHS on going along on the journey, around 14:30: "Both of you are pillars of the Nie family. You should work together. You can also prove yourself." See also his pleasure with himself at solving the puzzle quickly in the tombs; it's not a purely self-satisfied pleasure, but rather, "It seems I'm not useless" (27:35ish). When NZH replies, "Second Young Master, you are definitely not useless. It's just because everyone has their own will," NHS gives a firm little nod. NMJ's respect for NHS' skills and interests is also made central to their relationship.

In MDZS, NHS really doesn't seem to be motivated by people respecting him. Consider, again, what he says about WWX's idea of demonic cultivation (ch 14):

A golden core was a core formed by cultivators after they had cultivated to a certain point. It can store and control spiritual energy. After the core was formed, the cultivator’s level of cultivation would increase at a rapid speed, and become better and better. Else, they would only be a low-end cultivator. If disciple from a prominent clan forms the core at a later age, it would be a disgrace to tell other people of it, yet Nie HuaiSang didn’t feel ashamed at all. Wei WuXian also laughed, “I know, right? No harm comes from using it.”

Even during Sunshot, he's slacking off, using the excuse of having forgotten his sabre. (ch 48)

And then in ch. 49, after NMJ burns his things:

Nie HuaiSang roared at Nie MingJue, “Saber, saber, saber! Who the fuck wants to practice the damn thing?! So what if I want to be a good-for-nothing?! Whoever that wants to can be the sect leader! I can’t learn it means I can’t learn it and I don’t like it means I don’t like it! What’s the use of forcing me?!”

I'm not necessarily saying he wouldn't enjoy it if NMJ respected him, and certainly it seems a fair read that he would like it if NMJ yelled at him less. But by and large, he just doesn't show any objection to being thought of as useless, even before his Headshaker cover—and there's a reason that cover worked, after all.

In CQL...well, again, he doesn't really show any sign of objecting to being thought useless, as far as I can tell.

4) NHS knows about the sabre curse

JGY explicitly says so at about 13:05: "You know his sickness. He didn't do it on purpose." Moreover, if NHS didn't know, the offer of flute-playing wouldn't really make sense.

In MDZS, NMJ explicitly hasn't told NHS at least as of JGY's visit after the stairs, and there's no indication he told him between then and when he qi-deviated. Indeed, it's JGY who thinks NHS should be told, while NMJ rejects this (ch 50):

Jin GuangYao, “Brother, these days you’ve been stricter and stricter towards HuaiSang. Is it the saber spirit…?”

After a pause, he continued, “Does HuaiSang still not know about the saber spirit?”

Nie MingJue, “Why would I tell him so soon?”

In CQL, we're not told either way; this being the case I tend towards defaulting to MDZS unless I have a specific reason to think otherwise.

5) NHS, though bad at fighting, is skilled in cultivation theory

Again, JGY says so, at around 13:19: "You are good at Daoist magic" (and NHS seems to accept it). Moreover this is continually backed up by the film, with NHS making good use of it in the tomb, and then of course in the last scene having put together the true effect of the corrupted passage.

There is no indication of this in MDZS. He's interested in art and beautiful things, but he struggles with the Lan lectures. When JGY defends NHS' interests, he mentions art and calligraphy, and says his hobbies are elegant; he makes no mention of any kind of cultivation theory. As WWX himself notes, thinking back (ch 21):

In the past, Wei WuXian and Nie HuaiSang studied together, so there were a few things he could comment about this person. Nie HuaiSang wasn’t an unkind person. It wasn’t that he was not clever, but that his heart was set somewhere else and used his smarts on other areas, such as painting on fans, searching for birds, skipping classes, and catching fish. Because his talent in terms of cultivation really was poor, he formed his core around eight or nine years later than the other disciples of the same generation as him. When he lived, Nie MingJue was often exasperated by the fact that his brother didn’t meet his expectations, so he disciplined him strictly. Despite this, he still didn’t improve much.

I'm not saying he couldn't have developed in this direction after NMJ's death, but there doesn't seem to be any indication he was skilled in that way beforehand. Again, there's a reason his cover as "totally useless person" works as a cover.

In CQL, again, we don't really see any evidence of his skill with cultivation. NHS is shown flipping through his book for the answer to the executioner question LQR asks WWX; he doesn't show any evidence of significant cultivation knowledge on the road trip section (although he is shown to have a good memory for things he's actually interested in, and you could argue he has good instincts!); his wish at the lantern festival is that he passes his studies at the Lan. I just don't see it.

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#fj negativity #long meta #anger burned in his heart #we can't change places #more than one tag could contain

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hishoukoku · 3 years

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(And we already know that both of us disagree with this, but I'm a little shit and want you to rant about Xue Yang

Also I think there is someone out there with this wrong opinion)

Xue Yang is an irredeemable character and his actions cannot be justified.

I'm not copy pasting that phrase, just:

strongly agree | agree | neutral | disagree | strongly disagree

Oh so we're doing this?

That sentence feels like I'm in the Xue Yang tag bcs bitches can't tag for shit... xD

Okay sit down this is becoming a Xue Yang meta:

I've seen so many people say this shit about him, even people who seemingly like him but refuse to justify his actions and preface it with "feeling problematic tonight, might stan Xue Yang"

I said in the other ask, but his highly traumatic past didn't allow him to rationalize past taking what he's owed from the people who wronged him.

It’s highly apparent from when he was a child that he lives a very precarious existence, he's had no one all his life to teach him, protect him, care for him, feed him. <- seriously do people consider this ? it's important.

The tragic event from his childhood also destroyed his willingness to ever put his trust into anyone. He was a tiny gullible child who didn't have anything and was suddenly offered the opportunity to have what he wanted, in his innocent mind: simply candy, given that he follows orders.

So when Chang whatshisname suddenly offered him that opportunity he suddenly felt a sense of self, like someone noticed he existed, only to have his very first high hopes (and finger) crushed alongside his ability to place his trust into anybody but himself.

Because surprise, nobody cares if you live or die unless you're part of an esteemed cultivation clan.

His bitter pride in being a lonely delinquent and nothing more also roots in that, he calls himslef the only thing he knows he can trust to be, his own person who can forcefully take what he needs.

So, without ever considering placing his trust into someone else, he makes up his mind that he can't get anything unless he takes it forcefully from the people who wrongly have it, that includes the Chang clan's lives. Why even bother to reason, when his world and innocence was fucked while he was only a tiny child looking for candy?

Meeting JGY and working with/for him was his first chance at cooperating with others because he found someone to relate to. JGY's shitty unfair upgringing and the necessity to always act fake, both intrigued and disgusted him(at first) - why not take what you deserve instead of faking it? (I feel like they influeced each other a lot in this regard, with Xue Yang himself using deceit and a disguise instead of his usual deadly approach) But he finally had a partner in crime, albeit he was painfully aware he would (again) outlive his usefulness in Jinlintai, he made the most of it.

Then, it's very much clear during the entirety of Yi City, how much Xue Yang realized what he never had, yet again learning:

Affection, compassion, a home, love.

Even then, when it's blatantly obvious how infatuated he is with XXC people still hate him for..lying? Please.

What was he supposed to do?

He never wanted to hurt XXC. He's fully aware of his reputation and status so he couldn't have come clean about who he was.

But for the first time he realized, maybe he can place his trust in someone if he can safely hide his own identity and blisfully ignore everything other than what's in front of him.

If his entire goal was to use XXC just to make him kill a bunch of villagers than he coulda easily told him the truth or made him do it by force.

Yet he didn't, at that point he finally learned to discern his emotions and he was aware of how infatuated he was with XXC and he took it for granted as he finally fucking deserves to. He gave into loving someone and allowing someone else to care for him.

I believe both Guangyao and Xingchen gave him a sense of purpose into doing something for someone other than himself, and Xue Yang learning that despite always fiercly believing he's allowed to be selfish, proves that he's far far from "irredeemable".

Imma stop here, because I can rant forever.

From this ask game:

https://hishoukoku.tumblr.com/post/663955861660680192/please-send-me-unpopular-opinions-on-mdzs

#ishidareplies #ask game #for fucks sake imma cut the next bitch who says that #bcs there are plenty trust me #ty for this opportunity<3 #this became a xue yang meta?#im annoying as fuck when i rant and i spiral into the same topic #im sorry for the length of this #and for the possibly incoherent ideas #i love xue yang but who doesnt know that yet #mdzs

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