May 31
summary ~ on the last day of your senior year living together, you're still fighting your feelings for your roommate jungkook. before you can fully move out and move on, he makes a pretty significant scheduling error. #and there was only one bed
genre ~ fluff, smut / roommate!au, college!au, bit of crack/fake texts
wordcount ~ 5k
warnings ~ smut (18+), blowjob (oral: m receiving), nipple play, marking, penetrative sex, cumplay (sort of oral: f receiving), jungkook just goes hard as expected BUT IT'S SOFT? this is just super cheesy and cute with some hopefully hot smut
a/n ~ surprise oneshot! and they were roommates? and there was only one bed? this is all my fave tropes wrapped into one, i had a ton of fun writing it and i hope yall enjoy :')
~ read on ao3 ~
You walked up to your apartment door just as a boy from the class below you walked out—with a wave, a "see ya, Jungkook!" and what appeared to be the last piece of your roommate's bedframe.
"You...sold...your bed?"
"Well, sort of. I borrowed it from that guy for the year while he was studying abroad. So now I'm giving it back to him. Since I'm staying in the city for my new job, though, I wish I could have just kept it. Now I have to actually buy one," Jungkook lamented.
"I mean, okay, but why didn't you just wait to give it back tomorrow when we move out?"
"What do you mean? Today's move-out day. I was just waiting for my brother to get off work to help get all my stuff out of here. I was kind of wondering why you hadn't packed up more, but you've always waited til the last minute to pack for things." Jungkook grinned, recalling your friend group’s spring break trip.
Momentarily distracted by his dig, you defended yourself quickly before returning to the subject. "Hey! At least I always get it done in the end. Better than packing too soon and accidentally giving away your bed a day early. Your new lease doesn't let you move in til the first day of June, right? It's May 31st."
Jungkook's pretty doe eyes went comically wide. "31st? There is no May 31st. It's June 1st. Because yesterday was May 30th. Right?"
"Oh my gosh. You're joking. You have to be joking," you tried not to laugh as you pulled up your Google calendar. "Here, look," you turned the phone around to him. "May 31st."
"Shit," he breathed, pushing the soft shock of hair back from his frozen face. "What did I do?"
You took your phone back, already distracted by your texts as you reassured him. "Don't worry, it’s funny but it's no big deal, I'm just messing with you. You can sleep on the couch for tonight, you'll be fine."
Jungkook grabbed your wrist, making you look up from your screen in surprise. In sitcom-esque slow motion, he swiveled his head sideways and you followed his gaze to the living room, realizing—
"The couch was his too. I gave it back."
"Oh my gosh," you muttered, shaking your head down with a smile. Feeling a little braver on your last full day as roommates, you finally gave Jungkook the warning that had almost slipped out plenty of times over the year. "Jungkookie...you're really lucky you're so cute. Otherwise you wouldn't get away with nearly as much as you do in life.”
"I..." Jungkook dropped your hand, grinning at the usual nickname but unsure how to take the half-compliment. "I'm so sorry. I can't believe I forgot about a whole day, I usually double-check my calendar. I can just take the floor for tonight, I guess? I'll go unpack my blanket again. Sorry, I don't want to be an inconvenience."
"No, no," you cut him off—against your better judgment, but determined to ignore your superficial attraction to him to be a good friend and roommate. "Don't be ridiculous, just sleep in my bed. I mean, if that's okay with you of course. It'll definitely be more comfortable than the floor." He nodded rapidly, eyes still wide but mouth perfectly flatlined like an emoji. "Okay then. No worries. Let's eat, I got us takeout for our last night but it's getting cold."
At the mention of food, Jungkook made a beeline for the plastic bags hanging on your arm, and soon you were back to normal—well, sort of. Eating slightly reheated noodles on the living room floor instead of the couch, you giggled over one last Friday night K-drama episode together and reminisced over all the best memories from your year as roommates. You missed the coziness of your couch more than you thought you might, or maybe you just missed the snuggles you'd shared in its corner on countless nights like this one.
Jungkook had always been cutely touchy with his close friends, but it had taken a while for you two to get comfortable. You had to admit you'd gotten spooked when you first met him, disappearing behind your door after a quick "hi, nice to meet you!" and furiously texting your friend and former roommate Jin in distress. He hadn't warned you the new guy he'd found for your apartment was, in your own words, "stupid hot." Jin had laughed you off, saying it hadn't even occurred to him because he just saw his former soccer teammate "JK" as a kid. To be fair, it probably truly had slipped Jin's notice—he barely believed anyone who told him how objectively attractive he was. But Jin was a good enough friend to both you and Jungkook that he took charge of dissolving the initial tension, immediately bringing y'all over for a "double housewarming" dinner party at the cute new place he now shared with his fiancée. (Thank goodness he'd finally listened when you'd told him she found him attractive. Even if it cost you a roommate of two years, you'd happily take credit for that relationship.) That first invitation had felt suspiciously like a double date, but Jin's cooking and hosting skills broke the ice nicely enough. After that, it only took a few more dinners and video game nights to initiate you into their casual rhythm of hair ruffles and backhugs.
Currently, Jungkook had his arm around you to offer a neck rub while you rested your head on his shoulder, hoping he couldn't feel your pulse beneath his fingers. "Ah, you're going so hard," you half-protested.
"I always go this hard! You never complain," he shot back with a teasing grin.
"Nah, come on, you're gonna leave a mark or something. At least check," you lifted your head, sweeping your hair aside. "Is it all red like Jin always gets?" you joked.
Facing away, you had no way of seeing it, but Jungkook's face had gone red too. "Uh...no, it's fine, it's fine." He glanced back to the TV and turned it off, noticing the episode had ended. "Sorry though, I didn't mean to hurt you. I'm gonna go shower and get ready for bed."
"Hey, no, it's okay!" You tugged on his shirt as he got up, wanting to reverse whatever you’d done to make him seem so uneasy. "I'm not actually hurt or mad at you or anything, I was just messing with you. Again." You smiled lightheartedly, and his face broke into a soft nose-scrunch at the reassurance.
"Okay, good. I was gonna shower anyway though—so uh, see you in bed I guess?"
"Yeah same, see you in bed," you laughed, trying to maintain the ease in your facial expression until the moment he left the room, upon which your internal monologue immediately turned into "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa."
You couldn't help thinking about Jungkook in the shower. And not even in the usual way that you couldn't help thinking about Jungkook, in the shower. As much as you hated to admit it, Jin was probably right about your feelings for your sweet, dorky roommate going beyond just physical attraction, or friendship. Jungkook was kind, respectful, smart, athletic, artistic, funny, really hot, and you already got along well enough to live together: he really was the ultimate boyfriend material. You were both pleasantly moderate introverts. He shared your same favorite dramas and brand of instant ramen. Even your parents loved him—wait, did they want you to date him too? A strict follower of every social rule that dictated not dating roommates, coworkers, best friends' exes, exes' best friends, etc., you had simply never allowed yourself to consider the possibility until now. You played back your conversations with Jin over the year and considered the sheer amount of the funny stories you told him, or situations where you asked for his advice, or surprises he'd helped you plan, or simply glowing, grinning descriptions of something new you'd noticed, that all ended up being about Jungkook. He'd never even had to bring him up. Damn Jin for being such a good listener.
~
Almost an hour later, when you were already in bed, Jungkook politely knocked on your door. He always took long showers, and tonight you couldn't decide whether you were thankful for the extra time to prepare yourself or even more stressed from the extra time to overthink.
"Come in," you called quietly. Jungkook shuffled into your room, toe-socked feet making their way to the side of the bed you'd rolled over to clear for him. Cautious, he climbed in, and you stayed safely facing away from each other for a while, winding down for the night on your phones like you both normally did in your separate rooms. So spaced out that you couldn't even detect Jungkook's additional body heat, you felt the chill of the air conditioning instead and kept adjusting the blankets to try and achieve maximum insulation.
Jungkook eventually spoke his first words since he'd entered. "Am I hogging the covers? I'm sorry."
"Oh no, you're totally fine, if anything I'm taking up more than you. I'm just always cold, so I usually sleep in, like, a three-layered burrito. But it's fine! Really, no worries."
To your surprise, Jungkook rolled over, propping his head up on an elbow to look at you. "Well...I...we could..." he started, swallowing when you turned to face him. "I mean, you could wear socks! Like I do!" He pulled a foot out from under the sheets and presented it to your face, cackling.
"I think the fuck not," you snorted, shoving the foot away and falling slightly on top of him as you both lost your balance in giggles. "You couldn't catch me dead in your weird-ass socks."
"That's the secret, though!" he insisted. "That's how I stay warm."
"You are warm," you realized. One of your hands had ended up on his chest, the other arm tucked in the side of his torso, and both were burning up. You supposed you'd settled into similar positions on the couch before but you'd never noticed just how much of a human furnace he was. Maybe it was because he hadn't been wearing his toe socks.
Neither of you said anything for a second. You could feel his heart beating at a slightly elevated but respectable rate, and while you wanted to pull away, if only to spare your own nerves, you also...didn't. You were too scared to stay like this, but too scared to move too. Jungkook seemed similarly stuck, blinking down at your hand on his chest, but eventually he unfroze to reach over it and drag you fully onto him by your shoulder. You simply let him handle you, not making any additional moves but silently enjoying the heat he seemed happy to provide. His hand spread over your back to press your torso to his, radiating heat through your thin t-shirt, and you suddenly grew self-conscious that you were braless. But of course you were, who wears a bra to bed? You were fine. This was fine.
"Are you okay? Is this warmer?" Jungkook asked, as gentle as his touch.
"Yeah! Yeah, this is fine," you responded, the answer muffled by your mouth's placement all too near to his neck. You could sense the heat coming off his skin from there too, but it contrasted with the mild coolness of his still-damp hair. It smelled faintly of floral shampoo, and the scent suddenly amplified all your nerves as the implications of how close he was hit you from head to toe. Even the soft fuzz of his socks brushed your bare legs, now intertwined with his. You weren't exactly small, but the warm solidity of Jungkook’s body under you made you feel fully enveloped by him. Though he'd shared a fair amount of skin with you through the course of your friendship, the intimacy of sharing your bed took every touch to another level, and being pressed so flush against him felt unbearable. You couldn't possibly process a whole year of pure pent-up physical attraction right now, much less any other feelings that may or may not have grown with it, especially when you knew he had no reason to feel anything back. And you were roommates. You just needed to sleep it off and then you could both move, and move on, in peace. Hopefully the odds of ever being stuck in a bed with Jungkook again would go way down after tonight.
Not bothering to get up and turn off the weak string of lights above your headboard, you just slowed your breathing and attempted to drift off to sleep. Pretending the deeper breaths weren't so you could get a better whiff of his soft, flowery hair, you laid still for several minutes, successfully ignoring your body's instinctual response.
Eventually, though, it became impossible to ignore his.
~
Jungkook wasn't that hard, okay. He wasn't a teenager; he thought he could control himself around you enough by now that he could just enjoy this last night without giving anything away. He almost felt bad when you invited him into your bed, sensing your reluctance and knowing it was his own fault that you'd had to offer in the first place. But he knew you wouldn't have asked if you weren't truly okay with it, and that confidence gave him the tiniest swell of hope that maybe you were a little bit more than okay. While Jin refused to give away any real insight into what you thought of him, he'd been teasing Jungkook for six months about his crush on you, eventually convincing him to try making your friendship into more once you both graduated and moved on to different roommates. He had just been planning to bring it up in a much better way than the semi that you could definitely feel against your thigh. You had both been silent about it for over five minutes, though, long enough that he could cross his fingers that you were already asleep. He probably didn't have to worry about a thing.
~
"Jungkook?"
You had finally worked up the courage to stop pretending you’d fallen asleep. You felt him freeze up under you—the defined abs that covered his tiny waist tightening, solid chest muscles contracting, and his thighs tensing to trap yours between them, all at once. You froze too, attempting to speak again but no sound coming out.
"_____, guess what!" he blurted to cut you off. Which was good, because you had absolutely zero plans for what to say after that.
"What?"
"It's after midnight," he said, jolting up to point to the digital clock on your side table. "It really is the first day of June now. So, according to the lease, we're officially no longer roommates. Crazy!"
"I mean...yeah," you affirmed, confused. "But also, we're literally sharing a bed right now. In the same room. So until that changes, I would probably still call us roommates." A little too amused by your own clapback, you raised your head to peek into his wide eyes and smiled, a big one that scrunched up your whole face.
And his dick twitched. Yeah, there was no way you could not notice that.
Before you could even finish your gasp, Jungkook spoke again. "I like you. I'm sorry. I like you. I didn't want to say anything while we were roommates because I didn't want to make you uncomfortable, and I definitely didn't mean for this to happen, I'm sorry. You can totally not like me back and it's fine. I'm sorry, I really didn't mean to tell you like this, I just...I like you. A lot."
Shocked into silence for a second, but galvanized by his unnecessary apology, you responded without thinking for once. "Don't say sorry. You don't need to apologize, it's okay. Oh my gosh, I had no idea. I really had no idea. I, uh, I think I like you too? Shit, okay, I thought you were really hot from, like, the day you moved in, and eventually it became more than that but I didn't want to make anything weird because, yeah, we’re roommates, so I pretty much tried to ignore it all year. But then Jin made me realize that you're basically all I think about—or talk to him about, shit, I must have been so annoying—"
"Jin? JIN?" Jungkook grabbed his phone from the side table and wasted no time in blasting off the last meme in his camera roll. You propped yourself up in his arms, both giggling at Jin's quick shot back.
Looking at him now, a big cheesy smile on his face even as he stirred under you, still a little hard, you nodded as if fully understanding for the first time. "Yeah. I like you too."
As he set down his phone and brought his hand around your back again, his smile faded into a smirk. "Wow."
"Yeah...wow," you echoed, nervous and awkward again. You felt your face grow warmer as he looked slowly to your lips, then back up to meet your eyes.
"Can I kiss you?"
Blinking, you shifted your weight back down onto him, bringing your face close enough to hear his intake of breath as your hips brushed his dick. "Can you do more than that?"
"Fuck," he whispered. "Yes."
Jungkook snaked one arm down to your ass and one arm up your back to the nape of your neck, holding you close as he kissed you for the first time, fiercely. He didn't waste another minute hesitating now that he knew you had both wanted this for a year. Passionate but not aggressive, he teased the seam of your mouth with the tip of his tongue and you instantly opened for him, gliding your tongue over his smooth bottom lip as his flicked up to the sensitive roof of your mouth. Squeezing your ass to guide your hips down in small circles against him, he tensed his other hand slightly into your hair and you moaned at the competing sensations. Jungkook broke away to absorb every beautiful noise you made as he discovered you, heavy eyes finding yours before he rolled over to pin you to the bed and bury his face in your neck. He smiled into your skin when you moaned again from the satisfying pressure of his full body over you, and carefully rolled his hips into yours as he covered your jawline in tender kisses. One of your hands carved through his thick hair. As you dug the fingertips of your other hand into his prominent back muscles, you suddenly realized you were both still fully clothed and you really, really did not want him to be. Tugging his t-shirt over his head and throwing it aside, you paused before letting him do the same.
"Wait. Take off your socks. I can't believe I didn't make you do that before any of this. I really just almost had sex with someone wearing toe socks. Kill me," you whined over-dramatically.
"Come on, that would have been hilarious. What a first-time story!" Jungkook said earnestly. "Sure you don't want me to leave them on?"
"Please take them off. Please," you only half-jokingly begged.
"You wanna take 'em off for me?" he teased, wiggling a foot in front of you.
"Fine, whatever it takes!" You flung his sock across the room, reaching for his other foot below the covers to get rid of the other one.
He fell on top of you, giggling again, but as soon as you shut him up with your lips he snapped out of it, eagerly deepening the kiss while his warm hands traveled up under your shirt. Smoothing over the curves of your torso and reaching up to firmly grasp your breasts, he moaned into you and you whined back as his thumbs brushed your hardening nipples. He was incredibly physically precise, each movement graceful yet sharp and intentional. You felt deeply lucky to experience this dimension of him, the most perfect and natural expression of his contradictory nature. Equally loving, giving, overachieving, and sensual—with a side of weird socks and Gen Z meme literacy—that was your Jungkook.
"I can't believe this is happening," Jungkook murmured as he pulled your shirt over your head. "I can't believe I get to see you like this. You're so—ohhh." He trailed off, taking in the fully naked glory of your top half for the first time. His head immediately ducked to your chest, sucking dark bruises into the low-lit hollow of your breasts. You squirmed under his hold on the dip of your waist, whimpering, but the grip of your hands in his shiny black locks let him know you didn't really want him to stop. Grinding against his now rock-hard dick, you eventually couldn't take the friction anymore and reached down to try and pull off both of your pajama pants at the same time. Jungkook just laughed.
He paused to help you out, rolling off of you to take care of his own sweatpants, and you kicked off your pajama pants and underwear as Jungkook slowly let his erection spring free above his waistband. You'd never thought a dick could be pretty before, but it honestly made sense that his would be as perfect as the rest of his body. "Fuck," you swore softly, mouth watering. Jungkook raised an eyebrow at you, and you scrambled to lick the tip as if on instinct, eliciting a much more emphatic "Fuuuuuck!" from him. He spread his legs to let you crawl between them, holding tenuous eye contact as you smirked at his sensitivity. Teasing a single finger up his shaft, you followed its path with your tongue and he let out a deliciously high, shaky moan.
"Please," Jungkook choked out when you approached him, lips pursed. He praised you breathlessly as you tightened a hand around his length and began to sink down. "You feel so good already. Fuck." Closing your eyes, you hollowed your cheeks to accommodate his generous size and dipped your head, sucking him in as far as you could go. He was so responsive, you learned what he liked quickly, and savored each whimper as you stroked his balls gently or swirled your tongue over his slit. You licked all the way from his head to the base and he cried out. Bringing a hand to the back of your head, he didn't quite hold you down, leaving enough slack for you to move if you wanted to, but you submitted to his touch and stayed a second with nearly his whole length in your mouth. And then you swallowed.
"Stop! Stop, please, or I'll cum." He pulled you off by your hair, bringing your forehead to his as you realigned your bodies. "You're so good for me," he professed warmly. "I wanna be good for you."
"Then fuck me," you surprised him by answering bluntly. "Please, I want you so bad."
Jungkook groaned, arching his hips up against you and coating his dick in your wetness. Bringing himself back under control, he pinned you under his thighs and reached down to open you up with a finger. You felt so much more relaxed with him than you had with any previous boyfriend or hookup, and he slid into your entrance fairly easily. You moaned right away when he brushed his thumb over your clit, and he responded with a muttered "Fuck it, you’re so wet already," pulling his finger out and stroking it up your folds as he lined up.
"You're on the pill, right? For your periods," he confirmed.
"Yeah, of course. You really think I'd let you hit it raw otherwise?" you shot back teasingly, trying to hide how touched you were that he remembered from a few months ago, when he'd driven you to pick up your prescription since your car was in the shop. That was your Jungkook.
"No," he said sheepishly. "You're smart."
You smiled up at him fondly, ruffling his hair. "You're smart too. And sweet. And hot. And your dick is enormous. It's kind of unfair."
"Unfair!" he protested. "How can I be unfair when you're perfect?"
"Perfect? Shut up," you dismissed him. "Now I know you're lying. You cheeseball."
"I'm not lying! You're perfect for me."
"Oh, so you're just a hopeless romantic. Where did that come from? What am I getting into?" you fussed playfully.
"Okay, we can make fun of each other later, like always, but right now can I just get into you?" Jungkook pleaded, directing you back to the task at hand.
"Oh my gosh. I can't believe this, you're worse than Jin. That was actually pretty impressive—" Surprised, you half-laughed, half-admired his wordplay, but were silenced by both his lips and his first few inches gliding into you.
Not yet breaking your kiss, just absorbing your moans into his mouth as he stretched you out, Jungkook eased himself all the way in. He drank in every detail of your body's response to keep careful track of your comfort. You tilted your ass up against him, absorbing the fullness of his big dick immersed in your walls, and he froze. "Pretty impressive?" he whispered.
"Jungkook," you breathed back in pure pleasure, too overwhelmed to sass back.
"Can I move?" he asked sweetly.
"Fuck. Yes."
Jungkook's brows narrowed as his eyes turned darker, and he snapped his hips up into yours once, twice, before setting a fierce pace that had you crying out with each stroke. He hadn't lost touch on your clit the whole time, and he began to circle his fingers to pleasure you there too, building up an almost unbearable tension throughout your whole body.
"Fuck...fuck! Jungkook!" you chanted. His eyes overcame their fluttering to meet yours. Jungkook stilled, then ground down on you in one big, slow, circle, drinking in your blissed-out expression.
"Harder?" he whispered. Jungkook loved a challenge.
"Sure, harder. Why the fuck not," you keened, high-pitched and desperate. He could split you in half at this point, leave you unable to walk for days, and you'd love it.
Jungkook made a small, delighted noise at your eagerness, kissing you quickly before flipping you over and positioning you on all fours, sheathing himself in you again. He ran his hands along your torso to clutch your breasts from underneath, holding himself up against you with solely the strength of his thighs and his core. Pulsing his hips into you carefully, slowly, to let you get used to the deeper angle, his fingertips skimmed your nipples tantalizingly, warming you further. He dropped one hand to prop himself up and slowly traveled the other down to your center. The lustful, elated exhale you let out when he rubbed your clit made him snap his hips forward, tilting you into the bed before you could engage your thighs to push back against his. Your continuous moans encouraged him that you were enjoying this just as much as him, loving how he remained fully attentive to your pleasure while pounding into you to pursue his own high. He fucked you like a high-intensity workout, pushing his unreasonably built body to its limits of speed and strength. You couldn't help wishing you'd taken him up on more of his offers to hit the gym together, but he seemed to get off on your breathlessness, wanting to give you his all and push you past your limits too. His fingers working as quickly as his hips, heat swelled up inside you, and when you felt sure that the tension in your core was about to break, you turned your head to cry out to him.
"Jungkookie, Jungkook—nhngh, I'm gonna cum."
"Ahhhh," he moaned. "Me too, _____. You feel so amazing, ahh—you're so perfect for me." The praise warmed your heart and your core, and soon you came around him with a long, drawn-out whine. He fucked you deep through each spasm, sending you into hot, heady overstimulation as he shuddered and emptied himself into you. When you finally collapsed under him, legs sore and shaking, he pulled out of you gently and lowered his lips to your lower lips with great care. Jungkook meticulously kissed from your swollen clit to your entrance, soft as a whisper, and you breathed out in overwhelmed bliss as his tongue emerged to tenderly nudge every drop of his cum into your opening. The gesture of aftercare, just as soothing as it was inexplicably hot, bloomed an affection within you that almost made your heart hurt. You rolled over, stretching your legs out, and he looked up at you from between them. His hair was a beautifully sweaty mess, and he smiled in sweet satisfaction with your wetness adorning his chin. That was your Jungkook.
"Don't go anywhere," he said softly, kneading your thighs with his hands.
"Well, I have to do the whole pee-after-sex thing. But after that, where would I go? There's only one bed in this apartment now," you couldn't help teasing.
"Hey! If I hadn't given away my bed, none of this would have happened," he complained cutely, pulling himself up to big-spoon you. “Just stay with me.”
"I will. I know," you murmured back. "And I'm so happy you did." You shifted back, closer against him, and he buried his face in your neck.
"You know, I was gonna miss being roommates so much," he said thoughtfully. "But I'm so okay with not being your roommate now if I get to be your...your..." He grinned into your shoulder, suddenly too shy to say it.
You turned to face him, holding his pink cheeks in both of your hands and kissing his nose. Knowing this would be just the first intimate moment of many made you both flush with an easy, sweet joy.
"My Jungkook. You're my Jungkook."
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Ep 06 Transcript: xXBr0kenStarXx
Episode 6
PAZ: Welcome back everyone to Stairway to StarClan, a Warrior Cats reread pawdcast. I'm Paz.
JULIAN: I'm Julian.
LIZ: I'm Liz.
PAZ: And we are in an exciting, I guess, finale episode today because we're finishing Into the Wild. Went for a pretty good clip through it, and we're at the end, and, um, I think we'll do more of like, full on like, post book. What's the word?
JULIAN: Like a recap, like, revisitation of the book as a whole?
PAZ: Yeah, our full impressions of the book, post book, later, but I'm just gonna say before I do the summaries that this was a good book. And I had a lot of fun.
JULIAN: Yeah!
LIZ: It was. I mean, it was my first Warriors book ever and I think-- I'm in it now. I'm invested. If this got me at like 12, 13, 14, I would have been the Warriors veteran at this point.
JULIAN: It's never too late.
LIZ: No, it's not. You're right.
PAZ: I mean, it's still quarantine season. No one's gonna judge you for getting into Warrior Cats right now.
LIZ: You think I wouldn't go to like a super-- you know, back in 2019, I wouldn't have gone to a super hip cafe and pulled out of my artisan bag like a Warrior Cats book? Like yes, I have my oat milk latte and read my book Into the Wild right in front. Oh, would you like to join me? Hello, I see you're a fellow fan.
PAZ: Yeah, that's how it goes.
LIZ: Yeah.
JULIAN: Oh, to sit in a cafe.
PAZ: Ah, truly. Well, no cafes in the wild. Just death.
LIZ: That's the saddest thing I've ever heard.
PAZ: So let's get into these chapter summaries. Okay, so this week we read chapters 22 through 25, which is kind of like the end of the book, a lot of action and drama. So chapter 22 opens with Firepaw and Graypaw returning to ThunderClan territory after they saw Ravenpaw off. Firepaw goes back towards ThunderClan camp hoping to pick up Yellowfang's scent before the storm ceases entirely.
Her trail leads into ShadowClan territory, and Firepaw grows worried that maybe Yellowfang was a traitor. Graypaw smells kit blood in ShadowClan territory and they find Yellowfang nearby. The two apprentices attack her and accuse her of killing the kits and Spottedleaf, but Yellowfang's genuine shock at the news convinces Firepaw she is innocent.
Yellowfang explains that Clawface, a ShadowClan warrior, stole the kits, and she was trying to get them back. She explains how Brokenstar has been stealing kits and forcing them into warrior training much too early. He also killed ShadowClan kits and then accused Yellowfang of killing them, which was why she was banished. Firepaw promises Yellowfang they'll all rescue the kits together, and the three hide as a ThunderClan patrol approaches.
Chapter 23 opens with Yellowfang deciding to go and convince some old ShadowClan warriors to help and Firepaw deciding to try and convince the ThunderClan warriors to help rescue the kits and also to not attack Yellowfang. They part ways, and Firepaw and Graypaw go out to meet the ThunderClan patrol, which is headed by Whitestorm rather than Tigerclaw, who was ordered to stay back at camp. Whitestorm is much more level headed and open to hearing Firepaw out and agrees to hear Yellowfang out as well, and they go back to their meeting place.
Yellowfang soon returns with three other ShadowClan warriors who want to get rid of Brokenstar. They report that ShadowClan is in shambles, with the old and sick starving and countless kits dying. Yellowfang laments that Raggedstar died in a warrior patrol ambush and that his son has become evil. The cats come up with a plan to lure Brokenstar out into the open by having the ShadowClan cats bring Yellowfang in as a fake captive. Then ShadowClan and ThunderClan cats will attack Brokenstar and his guard once they're out.
In chapter 24, the cats make their way to the ShadowClan camp. Yellowfang and her friends go in and signal the ThunderClan cats to come in, and a fight erupts in the camp. During the fight Firepaw off faces off against Clawface, the cat who killed Spottedleaf, and nearly kills him in his rage before Whitestorm stops him. Then Firepaw sees Yellowfang fighting Brokenstar, who reveals to Yellowfang that he killed his father Raggedstar. Yellowfang is overcome by grief and stops fighting, and Firepaw jumps in to attack Brokenstar before he can kill Yellowfang. Brokenstar says Firepaw won't be able to kill him because he has nine lives, and retreats from the camp with the rest of his warriors.
The ShadowClan warriors who remain that were not loyal to Brokenstar promise to rebuild the clan and keep Brokenstar away. The ThunderClan kits are rescued and Whitestorm promises to leave ShadowClan and peace for one moon, and Yellowfang decides to return to the ThunderClan camp.
In the last chapter, chapter 25, the ThunderClan group returns to the camp, and Frostfur is overjoyed to see her kits back safely. Tigerclaw is angry that Yellowfang has returned to the camp, and Firepaw insists that she is no traitor. Graypaw suggests they look at the fur between Spottedleaf's claws, which turns out to be brown fur of Clawface, and not Yellowfang's gray fur. Tigerclaw still accuses Yellowfang of taking the kits, but Firepaw fiercely defends her and Whitestorm backs him up. Bluestar then formerly asked Yellowfang to become ThunderClan's medicine cat, which she accepts.
Bluestar then asked where Ravenpaw is, and Firepaw says they found his body in ShadowClan territory, where he had been killed by ShadowClan warriors. He promises to tell Bluestar everything later. Tigerclaw pretends to be upset by this news and gives some empty words about regretting the loss of Ravenpaw. Bluestar then declares that it is time for Firepaw and Graypaw to be given their warrior names, which is a ceremony that she conducts. Graypaw is named Graystripe, and Firepaw is named Fireheart. Fireheart thinks about how grateful and happy he is to be in ThunderClan. Tigerclaw then hisses a threat to Fireheart to not tell Blueheart-- Bluestar.
LIZ: I know.
PAZ: Oh my god, these names, they're tripping-- bleagh. There's too many consonants. Fireheart tries to go and speak to Bluestar, but she insists that he follow the traditional silent vigil following his warrior ceremony. The book ends with Fireheart and Graystripe sitting together on their vigil. As Fireheart locks eyes with Tigerclaw across the camp, Fireheart thinks to himself, if he was destined to oppose Tigerclaw, then so be it. And that's the end of Into the Wild.
LIZ: I hope I see you. It's on sight.
PAZ: That really was the--
JULIAN: Again, ShadowClan has got to get better SEO on their names.
PAZ: Oh my god. There's like, Clawface. Clawface?!
JULIAN: Well, and Raggedstar was the good one.
PAZ: I mean, maybe they're just like punk, but like, come on guys.
LIZ: Yeah, that means they have like a whole bunch of like little babies that are just called like, Clawkit and Brokenpaw.
JULIAN: Bustedkit. Like someone please get like an image consultant or something in for ShadowClan.
PAZ: Their medicine cat is named Runningnose. Like come on, guys.
JULIAN: Well, and the one before that, the competent one, was named Yellowfang, which also doesn't fill me with confidence.
LIZ: Yeah, both of the medicine cats have names that say, I have allergies that I can't take care of, and I have dental problem that I can't take care of.
PAZ: Oh gosh. ShadowClan.
LIZ: I mean, just, it loops around somewhat to kind of be like cool again, because if you see like a little baby kitten that's called like, I don't know. Clawevil, something something.
JULIAN: Scorchedkit.
PAZ: Oh, gosh.
LIZ: That's just a little punk baby now.
JULIAN: Is ShadowClan the Hot Topic of clans?
PAZ: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like out of all the clans, yes. And I guess they think the names are really cool, but that backfires on them when they're evil because then it just, you know, seems a little on the nose.
JULIAN: They edged all the way into an authoritarian dictatorship.
LIZ: No.
PAZ: Yeah, ShadowClan was having a real bad time.
JULIAN: Yeah, God.
LIZ: They need to be in like a little farming commune now.
JULIAN: Yeah, all the elders.
PAZ: Yeah, I love that there was just like this reveal-- this totally off screen father murder plot happened. Seemed very dramatic.
JULIAN: We said it was Hamlet and turns out it was Hamlet.
LIZ: But Hamlet was evil.
PAZ: It just was happening in ShadowClan. Oh gosh. Yeah. It was also very funny that there was a ShadowClan cat named Ashfur because that's the name of like a major character later. I was like, hello?
LIZ: Is that the same one?
PAZ: No, cuz this one's a fucking old ass bitch, I don't know.
LIZ: Oh.
JULIAN: Yeah, they seem to reuse names sometimes.
PAZ: Which makes, I mean, sense. There's only so many combinations, I guess.
LIZ: It happens in real life.
PAZ: Maybe, maybe Ashfur is just like the like, I don't know, Jake of Warriors names.
LIZ: The Susanclaw of Warrior Cats.
PAZ: Ashfur is just your John Doe.
JULIAN: Yeah, if I search Ashfur on the Warrior Cats wiki, I do get a disambiguation page.
PAZ: Speaking of characters who show up later, I think one of the kids was Cinderpaw.
JULIAN: Oh yeah. Definitely.
PAZ: Yeah, that was a cute little like cameo before she shows up for real in the next book.
JULIAN: God, there was one bit, before they actually even go into ShadowClan, Graypaw goes something about like, "my mother warned me about the stench of ShadowClan many times." And I'm like, Are y'all good?
PAZ: No, they're so xenophobic. To the point when anybody who's not them is smelly, apparently.
LIZ: I have some news for them. They're all stinky cats. They're just rolling around in the dirt and hunting wild animals and never having baths, except for maybe RiverClan.
JULIAN: They all have ass ticks.
PAZ: They do. They definitely all have ass ticks.
LIZ: And fleas. And their medicine is mouse bile and spiderwebs. I don't think they're walking around smelling like Bath and Body Works or anything.
PAZ: No.
JULIAN: No.
PAZ: Rolling in garlic too, apparently.
LIZ: Oh yeah.
JULIAN: Maybe they just like-- at this point, none of them can smell very well because everything is so stinky around them at all time, like nose blind.
PAZ: That's kind of how I felt when I was on excavation, and like all we could do is take bucket showers.
JULIAN: Oh god.
LIZ: No.
PAZ: I was like, I'm sure I smell horrible right now. But we all are dirty. It's fine.
JULIAN: Yeah. Eugh.
LIZ: Cats can be so stinky, too. Even housecats. There's a point where like they just become stinky. And you have to help them.
JULIAN: Although I will say this for Graystripe. If all the cats have been like eating like roadkill and like getting sick, they may in fact be stinky.
PAZ: That's true.
JULIAN: It's not their fault but.
LIZ: No.
JULIAN: I also can't believe that none of the other clans seem to have noticed that ShadowClan has like been all slowly starving, question mark?
PAZ: Right? Okay, maybe at the gatherings like Brokenstar only brings his like best warriors, who presumably get to eat more, so maybe nobody noticed.
LIZ: That's true.
PAZ: I mean, that makes sense to me.
LIZ: They did note also at the last one that like the warriors that he did bring were like, pretty young looking and also kind of skinny, which is because they're also--
PAZ: Yeah, the apprentices?
LIZ: Yeah. They are young and skinny.
PAZ: Yeah, they're babies apparently.
JULIAN: Fucking, okay, chalk up another war crime. That's child soldiers.
LIZ: Oh my god.
PAZ: Oh yeah. ShadowClan has that one down.
LIZ: This cat's a war criminal. Violated the Geneva Convention.
PAZ: Yeah, okay. ShadowClan, not only do they have child soldiers, they are taking hostages, too.
JULIAN: Yeah.
LIZ: To turn into child soldiers.
PAZ: Yeah, that's some pretty big war crimes if you ask me.
LIZ: How do they conceptualize this as cats?
JULIAN: I mean, they seem pretty upset about the child soldier thing. Like they're all like, Oh, he's been training kits as young as three months old.
PAZ: Yeah. No, like the normal cats aren't happy about that.
LIZ: Oh, no. Yeah, for sure. I mean, like, hey Brokenstar, how did you come up with this idea? Where did you get it from? What the fuck, my dude?
PAZ: Yeah, he's kind of twisted. He's a little twisted. He's kind of a sicko.
LIZ: He's real fucked up.
JULIAN: Brokenstar in his Invader Zim tshirt. I'm a little different.
PAZ: Oh no.
LIZ: Screen name, xX, Brokenstar with a 0, xX.
PAZ: Yeah, he's so comically evil. Like, like, way more than Tigerclaw. Like Tigerclaw is like kind of cool and conniving. This guy's just fucking like-- not even like Skeletor. He's just evil.
JULIAN: Like he's not even sneaky about it. He's just like, what's up? I'm gonna torture children.
LIZ: Tigerclaw is like the evil regent in every story. But Brokenstar is just like laughing maniacally on top of like a hill where he's on a throne of bones. And he's like, yes, I will make a soup out of the children.
PAZ: God. Again, if you look at the map in the book, ShadowClan territory is right next to Carrionplace.
JULIAN: Jesus.
PAZ: Which is like, great. I think maybe ShadowClan needs new-- maybe they should just go somewhere else.
JULIAN: Yeah, have they thought about moving?
LIZ: Hey, maybe they could all just be barn cats.
JULIAN: I'm like, do the cats ascribe to the miasma theory of-- just in general?
LIZ: Where are they at in their phase of society?
PAZ: They don't know shit about germs.
LIZ: No.
JULIAN: Because it seems like even if you don't understand germs, you might understand that those are bad vibes coming from the Carrionplace and you should...
PAZ: Right?
JULIAN: The vibes are really rancid.
LIZ: What about their humors? They're gonna get all messed up.
PAZ: Too much black bile or whatever. I think we're looping back into Hamlet. We've done it again.
JULIAN: I think-- yeah, we've done.
PAZ: Shit.
JULIAN: Welcome to Staircast where every episode we loop back around to discuss Shakespeare.
LIZ: Finally, my degree comes in use.
PAZ: But poor-- I don't know. I'm just trying to figure out what happened chronologically. It's all kind of, a lot of action going on. But like poor Yellowfang.
JULIAN: Yeah. She seems to have really liked Raggedstar.
PAZ: Yeah. Yeah, she's very, very upset to hear he was murdered by his own son. But I also mean like, poor Yellowfang. Like, even like Firepaw gets a moment where he's like, oh, maybe she is evil. Like, leave her alone.
JULIAN: Yeah. No one trusts her.
LIZ: And she's getting like, jerked around so much. Like she was basically like, welcomed before cause of like a huge act of bravery, specifically involving children, like saving children. And then she got cast out immediately. And the same thing is happening again. And like, that's good, but also like, how-- she must be thinking like, well, is this one gonna stick? Fuck if I know.
PAZ: Yeah, right. I guess maybe now she's like, if I'm the doctor, they probably won't kill me.
LIZ: She was the doctor last time, too.
PAZ: No, she wasn't. She wasn't the doctor. Spottedleaf was still there.
LIZ: No, no, in her clan anyway, like in ShadowClan.
PAZ: Well, that's cause Brokenstar is a sicko.
LIZ: That's true. Tigerclaw isn't a sicko but he's a real nasty guy.
JULIAN: The sicko versus nasty guy dichotomy. Oh, another one of Brokenstar's crimes I'm finding here is he also like forced out all the elders and made them hunt for themselves.
PAZ: Yeah, what the fuck?
JULIAN: Which is just like, well, fuck you. You took the one good thing about this fucked up cat society.
PAZ: That was real fucked up.
LIZ: They have already such a hard time like conceptualizing sharing and like mutual aid. So let's make it worse.
PAZ: No, I mean, like, they got that mutual aid. It's just in very clearly defined borders is the issue. But Brokenstar said, fuck that. Brokenstar said, we're going full authoritarian, baby.
JULIAN: It does sound like ShadowClan has some-- I mean, maybe ThunderClan has it too and we just haven't seen it yet because Bluestar is a girl boss. But like, it seems like they have some fucked up ideas about leadership already because Yellowfang is like, oh, no one could stand up to Brokenstar cause Raggedstar was his father, and his word is law. And it's like Well, great. You've reinvented monarchy.
LIZ: Oh no.
PAZ: Yeah, like is ShadowClan just doing like rules of succession? Like cause I don't think--that's not how it's supposed to work, even though it feels like that. There's a real nepotism problem in ThunderClan coming down the line.
LIZ: Ooh, good.
PAZ: I think we'll see but um, but yeah, like ShadowClan just straight up has like their first son succession rule going on or whatever.
LIZ: And it's definitely not supposed to be like that. And like the whole word is law thing, that is-- like we see pretty early on that Bluestar at least consulted like the other members of the clan on pretty important decisions. She's always like, what do you guys think? And I would like your input on this, right?
PAZ: Yeah. I think we do get to see more of RiverClan and WindClan in the upcoming books. Definitely WindClan I think comes up in the near future.
JULIAN: Oh yeah. No, they definitely do.
PAZ: But yeah, I'll be interested to see what they got going on in their leadership structures. Also, I think Firepaw should have committed a murder.
LIZ: Yes.
PAZ: He's allowed.
JULIAN: Yeah, that was like in the heat of battle. It's justified.
PAZ: Right? These cats killing each other constantly. Just let him have it.
LIZ: He can have some like conflict about it later, but you know, I think he should do it for the drama.
JULIAN: Oh, I do have a quick question. Hey, how the fuck does Graypaw know what kit blood smells like?
LIZ: That has never popped up before.
PAZ: That's a great question, actually. Yeah.
JULIAN: Like very specifically like the blood of kits. Excuse me?
LIZ: It was so alarming when it popped up because it was like oh, like did one die? Is this just like a bloody scene? No. It's like just the scent of it, right? Like around?
JULIAN: Yeah. And like when we do find the kits one of them was like-- like a couple of them were like kind of scratched up. But.
PAZ: Maybe like in the camp the kits get like, I don't know thorns in their paws or something. Who knows?
LIZ: How do you pull those out if you don't have thumbs?
PAZ: Your teeth.
LIZ: That sounds like it hurts.
PAZ: Well yeah, probably.
JULIAN: I mean, it hurts when you have thumbs, too.
PAZ: But this series does also not stray away from child death. So don't worry about that.
LIZ: They're just little guys though.
PAZ: Yeah, but they're warriors. They're out in the wild. And anything could happen.
LIZ: (crestfallen) I see that now.
PAZ: This series is like the opposite of video games where like the children are invincible and you can't kill them. The children here are very killable.
JULIAN: Yeah, I would say children die like a lot in a series that is meant for children.
PAZ: Uh-huh. I'm kind of amazed that all of these kits survived, actually. Good for them.
LIZ: Yeah, there's a pretty good survival rate in this book. I can't wait to see that just decimated.
PAZ: I feel-- just like from knowing general knowledge about what happens in the first series, I think it gets real bloody near the end.
JULIAN: Oh yeah. Yeah, it does. Um.
LIZ: I guess it's not called Peacetime Cats.
PAZ: Yeah, it is kind of wild to be like rereading this as an adult, and be like these are like so graphic for kids novels. I mean, kids like love that shit, but.
JULIAN: Right. I don't know if I like-- if I remember it being in this book, but there's definitely like in later books, like explicit descriptions of like cats getting their throats torn out, and like, cats getting like disemboweled. And like--
PAZ: I feel like there was a bear trap or something at one point.
LIZ: Oh my god.
JULIAN: Oh god, the bear trap. Oh, God, that was awful. Yeah. And like kids do eat that shit up.
LIZ: Oh, for sure.
PAZ: But usually, it's not like in the kids media. It's usually like you sneak in and like watch or something you're not supposed to. This series is just like, fuck it.
JULIAN: Yeah, gloves off. Ugh. Speaking of kit death. Firepaw completely forgot to mention that Ravenpaw was dead until like, they got back to the camp and like, did a lot of other exposition.
PAZ: Oh my god, that was so funny.
JULIAN: Like he didn't even remember to act sad when they met the ThunderClan patrol. He was just like, Oh, this is fine.
PAZ: Oh my god, yeah.
JULIAN: And then when they get back to camp, it's like, oh, by the way, real sad. He's dead.
LIZ: It's his limited object permanence. He's just a little guy.
PAZ: There was a lot going on. But yeah, he's uh, he failed in his great like, subterfuge plan there, I think.
LIZ: He did the best he could as Firepaw.
PAZ: Yellowfang was just giving him a look like, uh, excuse me?
JULIAN: Yellowfang has the only brain cells in this entire, like society of cats.
PAZ: It really feels like that.
JULIAN: And then later on Firepaw-- after becoming Fireheart, when Tigerclaw threatens him, is like Bluestar has to know about Tigerclaw's treachery. And it's like, yeah, she would have if you hadn't forgotten to tell her.
PAZ: I know. You could have told her when the witness to the murder was still in the camp. But no. Oh, God. Yeah. And then he says something like, Tigerclaw isn't a problem to be solved in a day. I'm like, it could be. It really could be. I don't know.
LIZ: Mm, I think the sooner you solve it, the better, too.
JULIAN: Like it's only going to take longer the more you let him get his claws in.
PAZ: Haha. Yeah, though. But, but it was also very, like, Whitestorm like, is the cat who like comes out to help in the ShadowClan battle, specifically because Bluestar is like Tigerclaw is too bloodthirsty, so he'll have to stay in camp. And I'm like, Bluestar, why didn't you just make Whitestorm the deputy?
JULIAN: Right?
PAZ: Hello?
LIZ: Yeah, he's like, right there. He's doing great.
JULIAN: He's right there. He's like, very chill.
PAZ: Yeah, he seems like a real nice, nice guy. But I guess if he have been a deputy, he would have gotten fucking murdered instantly.
JULIAN: Yeah. I guess it's good.
LIZ: Maybe she did ask and he was just like, no.
JULIAN: No, I don't want to die today.
LIZ: I'm good.
JULIAN: That's the secret. You got to turn down the promotion or they make you do more work.
PAZ: Yeah, he just wants to go like, take some sunbaths, like he doesn't need that deputy business. It also like boggles my mind that nobody investigated the murder scene with Spottedleaf before. Like, if you can just look at like fur color and rule out suspects, I feel like you should do that right away, maybe.
JULIAN: Yeah, I mean, they had just found out the kits were missing. So tensions were kind of high.
LIZ: They need to have more jobs aside from doctor, president, evil vice president, soldier, and mom.
JULIAN: Are you suggesting that the cats need to have cops?
LIZ: Noooo, oh I take it all back.
PAZ: No, just like forensic scientists.
JULIAN: Okay.
LIZ: Alright.
JULIAN: That's fine. I mean I guess if you think about it, they're all kind of cops already.
LIZ: Noooo.
PAZ: They got that multipurpose job title. Also going back to the Ravenpaw thing, that lie was like, also just terrible in general because everyone saw the three of them leave together. So it's like, Firepaw, are you gonna make up a story like at some point you got separated and that's where Ravenpaw got killed? Like, it's just-- the holes in this story are enormous.
JULIAN: He like straight up doesn't even come up with a story. He just goes, Ravenpaw is dead. Oh, no, he does come up with a story. I'm sorry. I'm rereading it.
PAZ: It's just not very good.
JULIAN: They found his body in ShadowClan.
LIZ: On the other hand, Tigerclaw can just say whatever shit he wants, and that's fine with everybody.
PAZ: That's true.
JULIAN: I mean, if we think of Firepaw as like, exemplar of the average cat intelligence in this clan, it might not be that hard.
PAZ: Yeah.
LIZ: What a grim prospect.
PAZ: Well, you know, apparently nobody liked Ravenpaw. So I guess they don't really care enough to think too deeply about it.
JULIAN: God.
LIZ: So sad.
JULIAN: Including, like his siblings.
PAZ: I know, fuck his siblings.
LIZ: His siblings fucking suck.
JULIAN: I hope he's having a great time getting those Barley smooches.
LIZ: Good for him.
PAZ: Yeah, there's like a line. Oh, yeah, it's like after Tigerclaw pretends to be sad about Ravenpaw. Firepaw is like, "what would Tigerclaw say if he knew that Ravenpaw was safe, far beyond the forest, catching rats with Barley?"
JULIAN: Good. It's what he deserves.
PAZ: It is what he deserves. Not deal with any of your shit.
LIZ: Get out of the horrible, wartorn, militaristic cat society.
PAZ: Also, like, I guess Ravenpaw is also like, only five hours away from also being a warrior.
JULIAN: What do Sandpaw and Dustpaw think about this? Because they're older, right?
PAZ: Oh yeah, that's true. Probably pissed. Maybe they became warriors offscreen. I don't know.
LIZ: I don't know, a lot's happening. Maybe they did. They're just not part of like, the main friend group. So, they went patrolling or something together.
PAZ: Here's some trivia though about Ravenpaw. Tara says that if she could have made Ravenpaw a warrior, she would have named him Ravenwing.
JULIAN: Aw.
LIZ: Aww.
PAZ: So that's his warrior name that was never realized.
LIZ: That's very cute.
PAZ: That's a good name, I think. We love and support Ravenpaw here.
LIZ: We do.
JULIAN: He's our little guy.
PAZ: He's our little guy and he's a member of our community. So we have to support him.
LIZ: Absolutely.
PAZ: Yeah, but then once again, that does raise the question, though. How does like Bluestar come up with these names? Does she just have like a list she pulls from, like?
JULIAN: I mean she does like have a line to StarClan, it seems like. Maybe they're giving her the names.
PAZ: StarClan has that Warriors Cat name generator up there. They're clicking away at it. You know, if I was leader, I would absolutely having to give people their names. That's too much pressure for me.
JULIAN: I mean, I think she picks pretty good ones. Like Fireheart and Graystripe are pretty solid.
PAZ: No, they're good. I'm just saying if I was a cat and a leader of a Warrior clan I would not be good at it.
LIZ: I mean, not good in the way that they would like, but would there be-- if it was me, would there be a lot of cats named like Oatmilk and Jeremy? Yes.
PAZ: I'd be the one naming people Fuzzypelt.
LIZ: They should be honored.
JULIAN: I dub thee Susanclaw.
LIZ: Yes.
PAZ: Susanclaw is extra funny because someone pointed out in the later books that there are cats named, like Bellaleaf I think is one of them. There's cats that basically get names that are Susanclaw in canon, so.
LIZ: No, no, no, no. You don't understand. That cat's Italian.
PAZ: Oh, okay. I see. My bad. But you know, I do appreciate this series like promoting the idea of like, name changing being simple and easy, and like, just swapping, like how you refer to someone. I don't know.
JULIAN: Yeah, no, it's nice. Like, the cats have names that change throughout their lives like, as their roles in the clan change. Like even when they become elders, sometimes they get weird names.
PAZ: Sometimes the name changes are questionable, but. But yeah, I mean like, it's because it's part of this like cat society lore mythos. But I don't know, I think it's nice for children to see that concept at least, like changing names not being like a big deal, so.
JULIAN: Yeah.
PAZ: Nice to have.
LIZ: Yeah, the scene at the end is like, very sweet because they just changed their names, and like both of the cats are like swelled up with pride. And everyone just immediately starts chanting both of the new names, and it's great. Like that's a wonderful little scene to have there.
PAZ: Yeah, it's very heartfelt and touching.
JULIAN: Yeah, I legitimately really do like all of the like Warrior Cats little rituals that they have.
PAZ: Me too.
JULIAN: Like all the religious stuff is cool, but also just like the life of the clan and like, you know, the stuff that they do to mark people's passage from like kit to apprentice and apprentice to warrior is neat.
PAZ: Although the fucking vow of silence thing really fucked Bluestar over in this case, because she's not getting to hear vital information.
LIZ: I know.
JULIAN: Yeah, I don't have anything else for the rest of the-- or for the book.
PAZ: Yeah, a lot of it was mostly like action. Um, and ShadowClan being cartoonishly evil, or I guess just Brokenstar being cartoonishly evil. Um, let me just look.
LIZ: Hey, did you know that if you google Ravenpaw, one of the suggested additional words is Ravenclaw-- sorry, Ravenpaw sad?
JULIAN: Oh. Oh, no.
PAZ: Makes me sad.
JULIAN: Hey, how come Fireheart gets two moms and Ravenpaw has none?
PAZ: Yeah, that's not fair.
JULIAN: Ravenpaw, who needs the most moms.
LIZ: He does. What the fuck?
PAZ: Can Ravenpaw get like any parents? Any parents at all? Oh, god, it's okay. Ravenpaw can go hang out with the cows and sheep.
LIZ: They're his moms now.
PAZ: Yeah. Oh my god, I do-- I can't stop thinking about that fanart I saw where the artist very specifically made it so Ravenpaw and Barley were in a trap neuter return program. Everytime I think about it, it kills me. Nothing but respect for that artist and taking a strong stance.
JULIAN: God.
LIZ: I think we have to describe this art a little. It's just a--
PAZ: No, it's very nice art. It's very, very sweet.
LIZ: They're just like sleeping on a windowsill, and then the tag underneath is like, by the way.
JULIAN: I think it's because they have like the little ear corner taken out.
PAZ: Yeah. I would not even have made that connection if not for that helpful clarification in the tags. Well, I hope they're having a good time over there in that barn cause shit's still going down in these woods. Yeah, I don't know. That was a good arc in the first book. Yeah, I don't have much else about these chapters.
LIZ: Oh, one last thing I guess. Just like a nice scene. When Yellowfang and Firepaw are like meeting up again, she says something like, you were looking the wrong way the first time I met you too.
PAZ: Oh, yeah, that was very cute.
LIZ: It was. That's her son now.
PAZ: Yeah, I like their relationship a lot.
JULIAN: Yeah.
PAZ: That is his mom now.
LIZ: Yeah, at some point like, he says like, in the-- he didn't say in the dialogue, but in the text it's like, oh, he's so happy because like the cat that he had grown to love is going to join his clan. Aw.
JULIAN: That's his mom.
LIZ: That is his-- boogie woogie woogie, you're my mom now.
PAZ: His two moms. I think Yellowfang is a better mom, though. I'm gonna pick sides.
JULIAN: She's certainly a smarter mom.
LIZ: Yeah, you need at least one mom who can like do the taxes and know when assassination plots are happening.
JULIAN: Yeah. It's important for a household to have clearly, like delineated division of labor.
PAZ: Exactly.
JULIAN: And Bluestar's job is look cool and get visions.
LIZ: Tag yourself, which one are you? Don't worry, the visions are tax deductible. They do work together.
JULIAN: Well, as we know, if it's a religious organization, it can be a non-profit.
PAZ: These cats don't need to discover taxes.
LIZ: Wait, if a cat had a mortgage, it would be a meowgage.
[laughter]
PAZ: Thank you.
JULIAN: Thanks.
PAZ: I think with that, I think we can move on to hear from the authors themselves.
[meow]
Um, so I figured to celebrate us finishing the first book, we could look at some interviews from the authors about the series and like the conception of the series, because I don't know, I think it's interesting, kind of how it came to be. So I think we look at the one on the Warriors Cat official website first, because it's kind of short. So this is a post from Vicky Holmes, who I think is the-- I don't know if she's one of the authors or editors.
JULIAN: I think she was one of the like original Erins.
PAZ: She was, but I'm not sure if she was an author or like the overseeing editor. So this is just like a post on the website about the origins of like, the Warrior cats and its world building. Great first paragraph here that ends with this inspiring sentence. "Writing really is all about harnessing the fish and persuading them to whisper their stories to you." Thank you, Vicky.
LIZ: I love that.
JULIAN: Vicky, why are you writing about cats and not fish?
PAZ: Yeah, so she goes in a bit about like the conceptions of the series. She says, "many of you know that Warriors began with a request from a publisher for a book about cats. They didn't mind what form the story took, just that it would appeal to a ready made nation of cat lovers. The earliest worldbuilding tried to establish the elements that are needed for any good story: characters from different backgrounds, a strong sense of location, lots of potential for conflict and resolution." I think that's so funny that the publisher was just like, write some shit about cats. People love that.
LIZ: Were they wrong? Were they wrong?
PAZ: No, they were right.
JULIAN: They were right.
PAZ: I don't know if the Erin Hunters need to go so hard, though. But they did. And thank you for that.
JULIAN: Oh, this is interesting.
PAZ: Do you want to read the next paragraph, or?
JULIAN: Oh, yeah, sure. Um, "it was decided quite quickly that we would focus on a tame kitten joining a band of feral cats who lived in a forest. These cats would be divided into clans that sometimes fought and sometimes united against a common enemy." We have yet to see that, but. "There would be a town or at least a clutch of modern houses next to a broad expanse of woodland and moor, and some spiky stone hills in the distance where the cats could visit an old mine for quasireligious purposes. A rough cast list was drawn up, and we came up with the idea for composite names that would change according to the stage of life that the cat was in: kit, paw, etc.
At first the four clans were called RiverClan, WindClan, ShadowClan, and StarClan. This would be the clan that our hero, the tame kitten joined. He would be treated as an outsider until he did some heroic things. And then at the first book, indeed the only book, he would be made the leader of StarClan." Whoops.
PAZ: Yes, that's another interesting piece of trivia is that they initially planned for it to be one book, like a single book. They were not expecting a series, really. And I don't think they were expecting to go beyond the first series once it became a series. So that's quite funny.
LIZ: Look at where they are now.
PAZ: I know.
LIZ: People love cats.
PAZ: The publisher was right. There is a ready made nation of cat lovers. Yeah, I didn't know that trivia about StarClan initially just being a regular clan.
JULIAN: She goes in a little later to talk about it was they chose ThunderClan because the territory is bounded on two sides by the Thunderpaths, which is fun.
PAZ: Um, Liz, do you want to read some of the next one?
LIZ: Yeah, I'll read the next part. "It was at this point that the development of Warriors became my responsibility. The stories were proving hard to nail down, and as I was a very new and inexperienced commissioning editor, it was a chance to test my creativity on a project that didn't have an established audience. I had absolutely no idea what I was getting myself into for, dot dot dot..."
PAZ: "Given that nearly 20 years have passed, it's a bit difficult to remember exactly what order things happened in. But I know that I soon realized that StarClan would be a much better name for the ancestors that my living cats worshipped in the night skies. This meant I needed a new name for the fourth clan. RiverClan lived near a river, WindClan lived on the windy moor, ShadowClan lived in the pine forest. So it seemed logical that ThunderClan whose territory is bounded on two sides by roads should be named after Thunderpaths, which meant that at this point, I didn't foresee an origin story in which each clan was named after its founding cat." Which I think is what they've retroactively done now.
JULIAN: Really?
PAZ: Yeah, yeah. I think there's like ancient cat history, quote, unquote, "ancient," because the cats. There was like Thunderstar or whatever.
JULIAN: Oh, the last paragraph is great. "I had a very rough map drawn on a scrap of paper, names for my clans, and a starting place for the story, Rusty the kitten feeling bored with his life and wondering if tales of wild cats in the forest were true. It was time to harness some bigger fish and follow Rusty's adventures into the woods."
LIZ: Aw.
PAZ: Aw.
LIZ: I love the continuing fish metaphor. It's very good.
JULIAN: It's very good.
LIZ: Also, just going back to the previous paragraph about names, ShadowClan lived in the pine-- why is it not PineClan? Or even ForestClan?
PAZ: I don't know, I guess those weren't cool enough. I guess also, they probably just said we need an evil clan.
LIZ: That's absolutely true. But in the universe as a cat, why would you do this to yourself?
PAZ: They're just goth and punk. What can you do?
LIZ: You're right. Gotta respect that.
PAZ: So yeah, that was a very recent article. I think this was posted like a week or two ago. But I have another interview from the old Warrior Cats forums, which were obliterated in 2016, I think.
JULIAN: Tragedy.
PAZ: This is the interview with the Erins from 2010. So this is-- God, this is 11? God, this is 11 years old now.
LIZ: Old enough to start middle school.
JULIAN: This is older than my brother.
LIZ: Oh my god.
PAZ: Jesus.
LIZ: Also this is--
PAZ: But there's-- oh.
LIZ: Oh, no, just want to say it's on archive.org. Thank goodness for that.
PAZ: Yeah, you have to access anything from the old Warriors forums through Wayback Machine, which is very frustrating. But I'm glad some of it is archived. Yeah, so there's some interesting Q&A stuff in here. This first question. Shademint's coming in with some, some weird gender ideas.
LIZ: Right from the start, too.
PAZ: So the first question is from Shademint. And they say, "the rule for medicine cats to not take on a mate, does that go for male medicine cats, too? They wouldn't exactly be stuck in the nursery nursing their kids, they could still work. But are they still required not to take on a mate?" Somebody want to read the Erin?
JULIAN: Oh, yeah. "Hi Shademint, a male medicine cat could still work. But just because he can't give birth to cats wouldn't make him any less distracted. He would still be focused on the raising of his own kits and by his mate's needs. Plus a medicine cat must treat all the cats in his clan fairly. Could you imagine how difficult it would be for a medicine cat to treat his own sons and daughters after a battle, and maybe have to make them wait for treatment after other more seriously injured warriors?" Nice save by the Erins.
PAZ: The Erins were like, we support equal shared labor from the parents, so.
LIZ: That's a very graceful answer, hopefully teaching this-- I'm assuming-- 12 year old boy, that if you're a father you should also parent your child.
PAZ: Yeah, Shademint was like, Why don't they just be absent fathers? What's wrong with that? I also like this answer for other reasons, ignoring some future stuff. But you know, that's a little foreshadowing for our readers in the know.
LIZ: Just a fun hint for me, I guess.
PAZ: Do you want to read the next question?
LIZ: Yeah. Two. "Hi, Erin. I've been wondering, how did three of you meet? I think about it a lot. Please reply. Thanks." From Lilybreeze.
PAZ: And they reply, "Hello, Lilybreeze. This is Vicky here. So I'll answer from my viewpoint. Before I started in Warriors, I worked as an editor of children's books. Kate and Cherith were established children's authors, who were interested in working with me on a project. Kate started first on Warriors. For book 3, I realized that we needed another writer on the team in order to deliver the books fast enough, so I invited Cherith to join because I knew she loved cats, and even more importantly, would be able to write in the way that sounded like a combination of Kate and my style.
Meanwhile, Tui Sutherland, the fourth Erin who wrote Secrets of the Clans and some of the Seekers books, was the editor at HarperCollins Children's books who worked on the finished Warriors manuscripts. After the early seasons, Tui left to write her own books, and I quickly asked her if she could join the Erin team as well. So the short answer is I knew each of the other Erins through work, and now consider them to be my friends. The other Erins have never met, partly because they live so far away from each other."
LIZ: What?
PAZ: They're in the UK. They probably live like an hour and a half away from each other.
LIZ: That's so far, geez.
PAZ: An impossible distance.
JULIAN: Y'all have trains.
PAZ: "But we all correspond by email." End answer.
LIZ: Amazing.
PAZ: This is so interesting to me. I don't know if this is like common in publishing to do this shit, but like, what a wild way to to start your book.
LIZ: Okay, I have some thoughts. One, you know, there's three of us. We could totally-- listen, we love cats. I mean, the Erins can use the competition.
PAZ: Oh no.
JULIAN: We're gonna start a competing series of collaborative cat books, in which the cats of CrabClan learn about socialism. And our pseudonym will be Terran Punter.
LIZ: Wait, hold on. Terran Gather.
JULIAN: Holy shit, I'm sorry. This is completely unrelated to the wiki or the sorry, the interview. I went on to the Warriors wiki because I remember there being seven Erin Hunters, and the other three joined after this interview. "Gillian Philip is a former member of Erin Hunter team. As of June 2020, she's no longer with the Erin Hunter team due to her conduct and demeanor and actions on her public Twitter account. The nature of her comments resulted in her being stripped of her work."
PAZ: Oh my God.
LIZ: What?
JULIAN: Jesus.
LIZ: What did she do?
PAZ: Was she like off being like a TERF on Twitter?
LIZ: Oh no.
PAZ: I just assume any British person's doing that.
LIZ: Yeah, you know, that's--
JULIAN: I mean, it's June so I wonder if it was like some--
PAZ: Ooh. That's fascinating.
JULIAN: --Black Lives Matter bullshit.
PAZ: You know, like, I love to see that she was just fucking kicked off entirely.
LIZ: You should have some, you know, immediate action.
JULIAN: She was a TERF. I found the results.
LIZ: Oh, man.
PAZ: Yeah, I assume any British lady who gets in trouble for something is just being a TERF online. But wow, that's really nice to hear actually that they punted her to the curb.
LIZ: Immediate fuck off. Good.
PAZ: Yeah, unlike some other British TERF authors who still have a platform
LIZ: I can't possibly know who you're talking about.
PAZ: No, I don't know. I don't know who it could be.
LIZ: Also, I do want to draw attention to like a cute little part in this answer, where Vicky's saying like, I worked as an editor of children's books, and then it says in parentheses, "(I still do, in fact, in between being one of the Erins.)"
PAZ: It always sounds like they're a band. But yeah, that's a fascinating way to write a book to me. But I think it's worked for them, so
JULIAN: Oh, they talk a little bit more about the process in the next answer.
PAZ: Yeah, I can read out that question. "Hi, Erin. I can't believe that I'm actually talking to the person who created all those awesome books that I buy and read EVERY NIGHT!!!" Three exclamation marks, all caps.
JULIAN: Aw.
PAZ: Parentheses, "(when I can, that is.) How long does it normally take to write a book?" asks Spottedfang?
LIZ: That's adorable.
PAZ: Very cute.
JULIAN: I can read the answer. "Aw, thank you, Spottedfang. There are certainly plenty of books to read, aren't there, if you read them slowly. Take note, those of you who are very proud about being able to read a whole book in one day. It takes about two months to write the storyline for a new book, which includes details of what happens in every scene, plus some suggestions for dialogue and character development. This is Vicky's job. The final storyline usually takes up half the length of the entire book.
Then the storyline goes to Kate, Cherith, or Tui, who have about three months to write the first draft. Then the manuscript comes back to Vicky, who spends about a week or so carefully going through it, checking that it all sounds like Erin, and that the story works as she imagined. Sometimes she asks whoever wrote it to do a bit more work on it. But if all the words seem to be in the right place, she sends it to the editor at HarperCollins. Erika for Warriors, or Sarah for Seekers. They go through the manuscript and ask for changes or additions to be made to make the book as perfect as it can be. Sometimes Vicky does these changes. And sometimes she asks Kate, Cherith, or Tui, whoever wrote the first draft, to produce a second draft. Then it goes back to the publisher ready to be turned into a book. So the entire process takes about six months in total, although we are always working on two or three books at once, so that we can produce more than two books a year." Jesus, they turn them out.
PAZ: That is crazy.
JULIAN: Wow.
LIZ: That is a lot of books.
PAZ: That is such a tight writing deadline.
JULIAN: Yeah, I mean, I guess like if Vicky is doing the storyline. And then she does a storyline, and then one of the authors has three months, she can be doing another storyline during those three months.
PAZ: Yeah, that's true.
JULIAN: But God.
PAZ: Yeah, and I mean, I guess it works because you already have like, established worldbuilding, but oh my gosh.
LIZ: It feels like a good like process. Like if you have someone to map out, you know, the the basic planning and everything, and you already have that set of rules from your universe. And then you can just pass it on between people who are also very familiar with it. Like it sounds like they have a good clip going.
PAZ: Yeah, I mean, it seems to have worked, so good on them, I guess.
LIZ: I wouldn't want to do this twice a year, but this sounds like something fun to like, try.
PAZ: Yeah.
LIZ: Just, um, what do you call it a thing where like-- this isn't the same thing, but it's like a group of people. They write like one section of a story and then like they pass it on to the next person.
PAZ: Exquisite corpse?
JULIAN: Oh.
LIZ: Yeah. Like, kind of like that, but a little more organized. I don't know. That sounds fun.
PAZ: Yeah.
JULIAN: Yeah. I've liked like what I've done, just like collaborative like fic or whatever, in the past. It's been fun. It's a nice challenge to kind of fit into someone else's style.
LIZ: Yeah.
PAZ: Yeah.
LIZ: It is cute that they refer to it as the Erin style.
PAZ: I'll be curious to see if I can like notice when a book switches a writer. I think we learned early in this interview, the first three books were all one author, so. Do you want to read the next question, Liz?
LIZ: Question 4, "hey Erins. Do you have any guidelines or rules when naming Warrior Cats? When I first started reading the series, I heard something about how you were breaking your own rules for creating warrior names. Are there any, or is that just a fanbase thing?" From Hawkclaw20.
JULIAN: Hawkclaw has clearly fallen afoul of the Susanclaws of the world.
PAZ: I can read this. "Hi, Hawkclaw. Well firstly, we can only create names from words that cats know about. So you're unlikely to find a leader with the name Ferraristar." Why not? "A warrior's name comes in two parts, either or both of which can reflect something about the cat's appearance, personality, or habits. For example, fur, claw, heart, or stripe, or something about the natural world like fire, bramble, or cloud. You can also have colors or something descriptive, such as tall, red, or swift. So Hawkclaw is a perfect example."
LIZ: Aw.
PAZ: "These are the basic rules by which we have followed throughout Warriors, although you might be interested to know that in the very first book, Tigerclaw was originally called Hammerclaw."
LIZ: Oh my god.
JULIAN: [singing "Can't Touch This"]
PAZ: "Until someone pointed out that cats wouldn't know what a hammer was." Oh my god.
JULIAN: How far into the prep process do you think they got before they were like, oh fuck.
PAZ: Hammerclaw.
LIZ: No, they finished the entire first draft and they were like oh, fuck, we need to Control-F hammer.
PAZ: Oh my god. Hammerclaw's a much less intimidating name. It's so funny.
JULIAN: Yeah. I'm very glad they made that switch.
PAZ: Yeah, oh my god.
LIZ: That's so funny. He just sounds like a guy on YouTube who like makes stuff.
PAZ: Some like weird like blacksmith YouTuber is...
LIZ: Yeah, he's a guy with a beard silhouette as his icon. That's what it is.
PAZ: Oh my gosh. Okay, question 5. "Are greencough and whitecough actual sicknesses, only with different names? If so, what are they?" Basilstar.
LIZ: That's such a cute name, Basilstar.
PAZ: Extremely cute.
JULIAN: I know. "They certainly are real, Basilstar, although we haven't based them on a specific illness like pneumonia. Whitecough is a chest infection: coughing up clear fluids, feeling tired, but still able to eat or drink. And greencough is a severe chest infection: coughing up green fluid"– yuck– "and feeling too ill to move, let alone eat or drink. This is why so many cats who catch whitecough end up developing greencough if it goes untreated.
PAZ: Nice little bit of--
JULIAN: Bit of lore.
PAZ: --medicine lore.
JULIAN: I think whitecough/maybe greencough come up like in one of the next books, like pretty soon.
PAZ: Yeah. Next question, I think is about the Seekers series, so.
JULIAN: Yeah, a number of the next ones are. Although right after it is--
PAZ: Yeah, I think seven is Warriors.
JULIAN: Number 7.
PAZ: Do you want to read that, Liz?
LIZ: Yeah, question 7. "Okay, StarClan gives clan leaders their names and nine lives. They lose their lives to sickness and wounds. But what about age? Let's say a leader gets really old. Do they die over and over again?" From Foxcloud. There's a second question in the same number. So I'll read that, too. "What happens if a leader dies of natural causes on their first life? Do leaders lose all their lives if they die of natural causes on their first life? I REALLY want to know." And that's from Moonstar99.
PAZ: These are such big brain questions I never even considered.
JULIAN: Foxcloud has raised a horrifying possibility.
PAZ: I know.
JULIAN: Which is that like you get old. You like get old enough to die and then you just speed run dying nine times.
PAZ: Oh God.
LIZ: That's terrible.
PAZ: I feel like someone must have written like a horror story like that.
JULIAN: Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. I can read it.
PAZ: Okay.
JULIAN: "Welcome to the Ask Erin pages, Foxcloud and Moonstar. In the natural world, animals rarely get to die of old age. They're more likely to die sooner than their domestic counterparts due to the harsh lives they lead."
LIZ: Oh my god.
JULIAN: "Without medication or a reliable source of food."
PAZ: Oh my god.
JULIAN: Yeah, Erin.
LIZ: Uh-huh.
JULIAN: You put them in the woods.
LIZ: They can't get vaccines there.
JULIAN: "Even very old warriors usually die because of something else, such as a disease, or hunger, or extreme cold. Leaders are even more likely to lose lives because they take part in most battles, and would go without food or medical treatment for the sake of a clanmate in greater need. So it would be unusual for a leader to make it to a very great age with more than one life remaining. If they became very weak, say from being unable to eat or because their kidneys were failing--"
PAZ: Oh god.
LIZ: Oh my god.
JULIAN: "--I think they could return once. But after that, more than one thing inside them would fail, and they would lose successive lives very quickly."
LIZ: Holy shit.
JULIAN: This is horrifying.
LIZ: Holy shit.
PAZ: This is so scary.
JULIAN: This is so scary. Erin! Erins!
PAZ: Oh my god. I love that they just admitted like, yeah, like wild cats just fucking drop like flies. But it's okay because they're cool.
JULIAN: These cats eat it constantly.
LIZ: They jump from oh, from death in battle to their kidneys failing.
PAZ: Yeah, I feel like there is a cat that dies of kidney failure.
LIZ: Oh my god. You know how you can, you know, mitigate that. I have a suggestion. Take them inside to the vet.
JULIAN: Take them to the cutter.
PAZ: Not dying of kidney failure is a small price to pay for not having balls.
LIZ: We'll take the balls, but we'll take the other stuff too.
PAZ: Oh gosh.
LIZ: Who wants to read the next one?
JULIAN: I can read it. Number 8. "I heard this question during a book signing, and I'm curious. Will there be an albino cat sometime in the series? I think it would be really cool if there was. It would make the book really interesting." Starshine.
PAZ: "Hi Starshine, we are definitely considering an albino cat. But we're waiting for the right story to come along so its unusual coloring can play a central role." Um, to my knowledge, this has not happened yet. So sorry to Starshine.
LIZ: Aw.
JULIAN: Also, what do they mean by albino cat? Because there are like white cats in the series. I know like albino cat and white cat are different.
PAZ: I guess they just have like cool red eyes and bad vision. I don't know.
LIZ: I also think that cat can just like, be. Just let that cat be in the story.
JULIAN: It doesn't have to play a central role.
PAZ: I think Starshine may have an OC that they want.
LIZ: Starshine is like, here's my G-- no, no, sorry. Here's my Hotmail address.
PAZ: Do you need another Erin?
LIZ: I know in several years, you're going to be kicking one out and I will-- I'll probably be at an employable age by then, so.
PAZ: Okay, well, sorry to Starshine from 11 years in the future. That didn't happen, as far as I know. So the next Warriors question is number 10, which is--
JULIAN: I think this is also the last one.
PAZ: Ah, I think there's one more we got to read.
JULIAN: Oh, you're right.
LIZ: Oh, I see it, yeah.
PAZ: Number 10. "How popular is Warriors?" From Pigeonheart.
LIZ: I can read that one. "That's kind of tricky to answer, Pigeonheart. As popular as the readers make it is the truth. New books always make the top 10 on the children's bestseller charts in America when they're first released, which is a good sign that a series is doing very well. In the UK, only the first series has been published. So the books are less well known."
PAZ: What?
LIZ: "Although they have some dedicated fans. Warriors is much better known in America, and hundreds turn up wherever I tour. Yet in the UK, where I'm from, the popularity is more, dot dot dot... subdued. That said, my very first UK event in October 2009 was a big success. So watch this space."
JULIAN: That's wild.
PAZ: Why is only the first series out in the UK?
LIZ: That's so crazy.
PAZ: That's so confusing.
LIZ: I mean, it's worldwide now, so.
PAZ: Yeah, it is, but okay, then. Once again, the mysteries of publishing, I do not understand them.
JULIAN: You would think that I would have like a better grasp on how publishing works, given like that we know folks who work in publishing. But I do not.
PAZ: I have no idea, no.
JULIAN: It is a mystery to me.
LIZ: All I've learned from that is that publishing's real fucked up.
PAZ: Yeah.
JULIAN: Yeah.
PAZ: Basically. Okay. There's one last question we must read.
JULIAN: Oh, yes.
PAZ: Which is number 12. "Will you write about horses? Yes, they live in groups (herds) and they'd be different from Warriors. Horses aren't exactly really like cats, but they could travel their home every so often. Horses would be a very neat idea, and I'd rather like to see a series about it sometime. Sincerely, Willowfern, parentheses, (your number one fan.) Smiling sunglasses emoji."
LIZ: Oh my god.
PAZ: Incredible.
LIZ: Julian, would you like to read this beautiful answer?
JULIAN: Oh, yes. I would love to. "Are you a horse lover too, Willowfern? We have considered writing about horses because they are such beautiful, intelligent animals. But we were concerned that horses tend to run away when anything exciting/scary happens."
PAZ: Oh my god.
JULIAN: "We need our heroes to sprint towards danger, not vanish over the horizon in a cloud of dust. Also, cats have tiny paws, which are handy for harvesting and using herbs, whereas you can't do much with a big clumsy hoof. However, never say never. Maybe when we've written about some other animals, we'll find a way to bring horses into their own series."
LIZ: Looks like someone didn't watch Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron.
JULIAN: This is such a funny like reason for not writing a horse book.
PAZ: I know.
JULIAN: A very popular genre.
LIZ: Yes, they're fucking cowards and don't have thumbs.
PAZ: This is just like a big own on horses.
LIZ: Oh my god.
PAZ: Horses can never be warriors.
JULIAN: Can't pick up grass, fucking cowards.
LIZ: Wait, warhorses were a thing.
JULIAN: Yeah.
LIZ: More than cats, you could say.
PAZ: Oh, God.
JULIAN: Like horses fight each other all the time.
PAZ: Yeah, I bet they do.
JULIAN: Yeah, I guess they didn't want to get into like the sexual dynamics of like...
LIZ: Nooo.
PAZ: Oh gosh, no.
JULIAN: Stallions.
PAZ: Oh no. Also, I will say like if horses break a leg they're just goners. They're like, bye-bye, so I guess that's another downside.
LIZ: I read a lot of horse books when I could have been reading Warriors Cats books. That's so-- yeah, you sprain your ankle? They just shoot you.
PAZ: Yeah. Did anyone else here ever read Misty of Chincoteague?
LIZ: Yes.
PAZ: Yes.
JULIAN: Yes. In fact, I was Misty of Chincoteague for Halloween in third grade.
PAZ: Oh my god.
JULIAN: Um, it was great. Everyone thought I was a cat. Because it turns out if you dress up like a horse, you need to have like some sort of back situation. Or people are just like, oh, you have pointy ears. Cat.
PAZ: That's incredible. I loved those books.
JULIAN: I was really upset that A, no one recognized that I was a horse, and B, no one recognized that I was specifically Misty of Chincoteague.
PAZ: Oh my god.
LIZ: I would have recognized you. You should have gone to my school.
JULIAN: Thank you.
PAZ: Yeah. Could have banded together. My very fun story about that series is I did get to go to the pony run on Assotague as a kid.
LIZ: Oh my god.
JULIAN: Oh, that's so cool.
PAZ: Yeah, I think it was probably like 12 or 13.
LIZ: The perfect age for it.
PAZ: It was so cool. And I would go again as an adult, so.
LIZ: Yeah, sounds like a cool place to go. My personal experience with that book is I loved it so much. I kept it in my lunchbox every single day I was at school.
JULIAN: Aw.
PAZ: That's adorable.
JULIAN: I was really worried that this story was gonna have like a tragic ending.
LIZ: No.
JULIAN: Like you were gonna spill something awful on it.
LIZ: It does kind of. Yeah, I spilled like some salad dressing on it.
PAZ: Oh no. I think my mom gave me her copies of the book from when she was a kid.
LIZ: Aw.
JULIAN: Aw.
PAZ: Yeah. So I think if Willowfern needs a horse series, just go read Misty of Chincoteague. Well, yeah, that was the end of the Warriors questions in that interview. I think it's very nice that they did like interviews of the, like 13 year olds on the forums.
JULIAN: Yeah.
PAZ: Yeah. The writers, like from what I can tell, seem pretty like, engaged and supportive of the fan base, which is nice to see.
JULIAN: Yeah, the first paragraph of that Vicky Holmes interview was her talking about like, one of the best things is seeing how many kids write their own fiction in the world of the books, which is really sweet.
PAZ: Uh huh. And, um, the official website does like, like fanart, like spotlights and like, features a lot of fanart with like credit, of course, which is very nice.
LIZ: Yeah, from the the first page that we looked at, that's, you know, on the current website, like, right in the middle of that writing thingy is a banner with some deviantArt fanart with little credit. And another fanart of the I think ancestor cats with some credit, also on deviantArt. So it's sweet.
PAZ: Yeah. That's nice to see. Yeah, I mean, that was it for this section. I am hoping we'll be back next week with a more in depth like book wrap up retrospective episode. So look forward to that, probably. And then we'll be moving on to Fire and Ice. I think I accidentally called it Ice and Fire in the last episode. So apologies. I know what books we're reading.
JULIAN: Outed as a fake fan.
PAZ: Yeah. Sorry. You're gonna have to cancel me now. I'm also announcing my resignation from this podcast.
JULIAN: Oh, no.
LIZ: No.
PAZ: For my unforgivable crime. But yes, that's the update. Very happy we finished Into the Wild. Had a great time. And I'm very much looking forward to the next book.
JULIAN: Hell yeah.
PAZ: And once we figure out what-- we'll probably announce what chapters we're reading them, in the next episode.
JULIAN: Yep. And that will be on our Twitter, which is @staircast.
PAZ: Yes. And, as always, if you have any questions or anecdotes, you can send them in to
[email protected]. I think maybe every few episodes, we'll kind of dive in there and take a look if we have anything and answer them. And thank you so much again, everyone, for listening.
LIZ: Oh, one more thing, because we are now on Spotify. Right?
PAZ: Yeah, we should be on Spotify. And we're also on Apple Podcasts and Google Podcasts. So if you listen there, go check it out. Also, I guess leave a review if you want. I don't know.
LIZ: You know, we're just vibing.
JULIAN: Yeah.
LIZ: Yeah.
PAZ: Yeah, I guess that's all the housekeeping.
JULIAN: Thanks for listening. And also, this has been really fun to do with y'all.
PAZ: Yeah. Thank you so much for listening, and for doing this podcast with me. It's been very fun. And I hope everyone who's been listening has been having lots of fun too, because that would be the best thing to get out of this is for everyone to have lots of fun.
LIZ: Thank you for taking me on this journey with you.
PAZ: Yes. I'm excited.
JULIAN: Thank you for coming on this journey. It's so fun to talk about this with someone who like hasn't read the books before.
PAZ: Yeah, I'm really glad we could get a initiate here.
LIZ: A noob.
PAZ: A noob, as they would say.
JULIAN: (with a funky accent) Your fresh perspective.
PAZ: Okay, well, I think that's gonna do it for us. And we'll see you all again next week, and until then, may StarClan light your path. Bye.
JULIAN: Bye.
LIZ: Bye.
[outro music]
PAZ: We clap.
LIZ: Podcast wrapped.
PAZ: We finished the first book!
JULIAN: Time.is. I know. [claps]
PAZ: It really has been so fun. Thank you guys for doing the podcast.
JULIAN: It's been really really nice. I've loved doing this.
LIZ: It's fun. I knew I was gonna have fun with the book, and of course you guys, but I got way more into the book than I thought I would.
JULIAN: Oh, I'm so glad.
PAZ: Me too. I'm back in it. Yeah, I forgot how much I liked this series.
JULIAN: Same.
LIZ: It's real good!
JULIAN: They're just funky little guys.
LIZ: That's the thing.
JULIAN: I'm really invested in all of their emotions
PAZ: Yeah, we haven't even hit the real like romance drama aspect of these books yet.
JULIAN: Oh God.
PAZ: Oh, it's gonna pop off. It gets wild.
LIZ: Paz has been showing me, like these characters way ahead of me that I'll never remember by the time we get there, but all these women cats just going apeshit, and I'm like yeah, I'm ready for this.
JULIAN: It's good.
PAZ: There's definitely some apeshit women.
LIZ: Oh, wait. We should also just clap before it gets too far.
JULIAN: Yes.
[meow]
PAZ: [typing] Okay, cat psychedelic substances.
JULIAN: You're gonna get put on so many watch lists.
PAZ: "Behavioral effects of LSD in the cat." What?
JULIAN: Who is giving the cats LSD?
PAZ: B. L. Jacobs, apparently. They fucking gave these cats LSD.
JULIAN: Why would they do that?
PAZ: "We talked to a scientist who gave LSD to cats back in the 70s."
JULIAN: Okay, back in the 70s it was a little easier to do shit.
PAZ: But no, I don't know if this was-- okay, yeah, this article was published in the 70s. I just notice. In the news article reporting on this, they have a picture of a cat, and the caption is, "photo of a presumably sober cat via Flickr."
"Reporter: So what do cats look like when they're on acid? Did they seem to have good trips?
Dr. Barry Jacobs: With a dog, I could have told you, right? Because he'd be wagging his tail and have a big smile on his face. The one thing I can tell you definitively is that none of them seemed fearful, meaning we studied cats for years in my laboratory. And what a typical fearful cat would do is crawl into the back of the cage. These are all done in cat cages, you know, big large, where they can move around, but nice and clean.
None of them crawled to the back of the chamber, and stood there looking at you in a fearful manner. That didn't happen. Some of them ran around like crazy people bounding around. Can I say that they were happy? No, I can't tell you about happiness. But they certainly seemed-- can I say they enjoyed it. They were really bounding around as opposed to having behaviors that looked fearful. And a lot of them stared for long periods of time."
JULIAN: Oh my god.
PAZ: They gave these cats acid. Oh god. "So why were they licking their paws so much? Maybe-- and this is a guess, maybe has something to do with increased sensitivity through their paws? That is, they felt something crawling on their paws, which would be very consistent with hallucinatory-like interpretation.
JULIAN: Oh no, the poor cats!
PAZ: "After the study was published, did you get any backlash from animal rights groups? No. This was a long time ago. Once we--" no. Well, um, we know that now.
JULIAN: Incredible.
PAZ: Aw.
JULIAN: Yeah, it's really sweet.
PAZ: No, I was looking at Ravenpaw trivia on the wiki. And it says--
JULIAN: Oh, I thought you were talking about the art that Liz linked.
PAZ: The art's also very cute. But the wiki trivia says Ravenpaw is revealed to be one of Vicky's two favorite cats because he is quote, "shy, says dumb things under pressure, and is much happier living outside the clan rather than the middle of a busy community governed by rules."
JULIAN: Aw.
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