#where Jacques is abusive because he only loves himself | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

frankiistein · 2 months

Text

ok so some more thoughts related 2 last time

breadavota consistently does this writing choice of glossing over extreme events and "watering down" emotional aspects, examples from the top of my head:

- the whole thing with jacques where he superficially acts like a self-absorbed unappreciative bitch living his spoiled princess life, a perception reinforced by how were told life outside the court sucks but were rarely shown glimpses of in what ways

pushing the point that jacques parents loved him and didnt abuse him, even the bonus animatic of his childhood ("quiet") shows other village kids like him instead of the stereotypical bullying, he had friends in college, people on the jesennian court tried to be nice to him etc., jacques already few itneractions with people who arent media are intent on portraying him as this whiny little baby that i think its easy to skip over the implication that jacques is generally powerless in their society

- the nature of the experiments done on bon and the personal relationship they had with jacques and media as parent figures and how that affects their style to parent bien

- biens own experiences growing up in exile and how that lead to his weird incestuous obsession with bon

- ava traumadumping how media usurped her and entirely skipping the ending of her story where she describes the recursive panopticon

- the spinal cord surgery event which we dont see at all, we just know it happened-and interestingly enough the sarbien scenes right after all hide bien showing only sars pov

- receptions "birth" and the implications of their dependence/loyalty on media

- literally all of bread's pre-trial existence

hiding backstory stuffs not a unique choice at all ofc but when paired with how alot of the story is sliceoflifey or at times written with this... detachment? like metaphorically the camera is far away from the scene, 4 me i think it gives off an interesting atmosphere. its like a portrayal of mentally ill or traumatized ppl where instead of the "nicer" portrayal of delving into their internal feelings and contextualizing their maladaptive behaviors with clear presentations of the trauma that made them that way, alot of the characters are just unpleasant.

al niente, the sarbien scenes and it always rains also add a layer of complexity to the decision to gloss over certain "major" events: the dominant one is portrayed as sympathetic or at least their emotions are delved on, and theyre always written in a monologue style where they are talking to the person theyre dominant over and that person doesnt say a single word in the text.

we get an entire monologue of bon grieving bien but also subtly insulting him, as if bons loss of bien is more tragic for than it is for bien himself even

sar treats bien "kindly" but has this condescending ableist subtext to all their interactions

and it always rains is probably the one i like the best. in a story where people get cut in half onscreen and where supernatural magical alien monsters exist one of the most uncanny chapters is as "mundane" as media drowning jacques in a bathtub. and the writing style of that chapter, the surreal dreamlike way of writing where its not fully clear whats happening (if media didnt explicitly say they were in the bathroom it might be hard to tell that what hes even doing to jacques), his unawareness that hes killing someone because hes in this trancelike states of being preoccupied with a vague feeling of "love", the way jacques, like bien, never says a word or has their pov explicitly shown

like, the story doesnt completely remove those characters hinting at what went "wrong" or how they try to cope with it. but the story frames them in such passing ways that its easy to gloss over if ur not obsessing over every line like i am lol, and again the story is able to do this so effectively by using character monologues or a snarky narrator that words those attempts at seizing control of their own lives in a funny but dismissive way

i think like a duck does this best by framing jacques as a funny quirky schizo and the narration being biased to medias pov

jacques desire for real food is about his eccentric beliefs in the Psychic Differences Between Real And Object Porridge, wanting to be the best-dressed person in the grocery store is silly childish conceit and also media thinks its attention whoreish but in a #niceguy way, being concerned about having chips in his brain is stupid and irrational never mind the fact he lives with a guy who does in fact put chips inside of people (its like their whole thing lol!!!), eating the free samples when media isnt looking is idiotic of him

i think all the other me/ja interactions are like this too but they all have this strong tone of jacques being a mentally not-all-there child and media being like a pseudo-parental figure with a bias of making jacques look stupid, irrational and immature

this especially:

the story "slips" by admitting jacques acts thid way because his minor harmless quirks r rly the only control he has in his life, and then immediately stupidifies him again by sarcastically saying hell act like a rational adult by pretending to be dead

its not just jacques but a good number of the characters: the story hints to some traumac it builds up the idea that were gonna tell u what it is then... it immediately backtracks into how stupid and irrational they are for acting that way

this separate observations r disjointed asf ikik but taken all together they give 2 me this unique atmosphere of the harms and abuses the characters facing as "realer" and somehow more justified, where the victims of not just other characters but the world they live in itself r framed by the narrative as pathetic childish idiots for no "real" reason, where acknowledgment of their sensitivies is done in passing and portrayed jokingly, its a story that simulates the experience of being an outsider whose struggles are treated as "invalid"

and the multimedia and metafictional format of the story is great for this: the way important emotional points are relegared as bread crumbs that are shoved into a wholeass diffetent website, the story as embodied by the narrator doing all that shit above (even the whole thing w/ the footnote of "this is totally part of the story and not a recap where we infodump 2 bread bcuz i cant be assed to show her learning things naturally"), and a good amount of text being done as quick flashing in the videos or written in rpp's signature disorganized schizospeech where half the words arent even real

its a story about the alienation of being a mentally ill/trauma victim but an unsympathetic "problematic" one, and the framing of the story embodies that: its not a heros journey where the story invites you as a reader to "immerse" in the story and see urself in the characters shoes and learn to empathize with them, its one where "settings" are characters and on a meta level the story as the setting itself is also like a "character" who frames the people in it as these irrational things. even the marginals themselves who are universes with inhabitants-the characters are the worlds and the people inside of them are invisible and unable to grow w/o parasitizing on someone else

breads the protagonist whose own comic is mostly about whats happening to everyone else, biens the antagonist who has no reason to be, the herald of the apocalypse is stuck ina house in the middle of nowhere, anthony gets traumatized and we barely even see that because he immediately gets turned into a character that acts more like a robotic husk than a human being, the literal god of the story is somewhere (but who tf knows) and Most Beloved Local Princess Best Dressed In The Grocery Store Most Important Woobie Character is functionally a pet of the one who adores him the most.

even media, arguably the most developed character (and fittingly at that considering the concept of marginals being viruses and "narratives" that steal the spotlight from the story of the living universe) is sometimes subject to this treatment, where we "know" being a marginal is unpleasant but we see him mostly just... lusting over jacques, the desire to make his entire world one Very Familiar guy if it means not having to look at or think about anything or anyone else around him including the responsibility of being an alien president

bread wants to CHANGE HER NAME bien wants to COLLECT MERCH AND PLAY ON THE PIANO jacques wants to HAVE TEA PARTIES AND LARP BEING DEAD media wants to GET MARRIED AND LIVE IN DOMESTIC BLISS and shit even sar "lets do big cosmic goals together" is out there fucking roleplaying christmas in poland

the repeated thematic symbolism of characters experiencing the world "as it is" but those perceptions feeling foreign and insignificant, of things being seen out of "the corner of ur eye" instead of facing them headon, where a marginal is a manifestation of unpleasant memories they try to repress, replace and gaslight themselves into being About Other Things, etc. etc., where every character is simultaneously Just Some Guy but also THE GUY

breadavota is weak if you try to view it as a typical narrative of how characters go from a to b but man is it good as a overall experience of being a Schizoism Simulator. its a story where every character cant face the feelings and experiences they have in the past so they turn those feelings into objects and punt them into space.

fittingly in a story about marginal notes, escapism and the eyes of reality itself unable to watch the world around it head-on the "bonus stories" propel the narrative in a way the "main plot!" doesn't quite

impending apocalypse? nay. jacques goes to the grocery store for the first time

#the most schizoid schizotypal to ever #breadavota #long post

3 notes · View notes

bestworstcase · 1 year

Note

Something about the Penny discourse and whether she'd come back or not and whether it'd be an affront to the themes of the series if she didn't makes me think that part of the issue is that people treat the themes in a very black and white viewpoint.

If the Gods are wrong, then everything must be utopian and Penny MUST come back permanently.

If Penny doesn't come back, then the Gods are right and RWBY is ruined and going against it's themes.

Except, RWBY's themes have NEVER been that black and white, because a recurring theme I've noticed is that making the world a better is not mutually exclusive from the fact that the world can sometimes just suck and bad stuff will still happen anyways for reasons outside of one's control.

And the reality is that the antagonists and villains fit into this as well, because a recurring element is that many of them are PARTIALLY correct. Not completely right, or totally wrong, but PARTIALLY correct or wrong.

The Gods are correct that Salem should learn to accept that Ozma was dead, but the problem is that they use it as a means to enforce their control over humanity for their own egotistical indulgences, and are shown to be willing to abuse that power when they are slighted.

Adam and Sienna were correct that the Faunus are in a bad position and deserve better, but the former twisted the ideology into a means to satiate his own ego and bloodlust.

Ironwood was correct that Ozpin was hiding the full truth and preventing his allies from being able to properly fight against Salem, but he was looking at things from the perspective of an arrogant fascist egomaniac who viewed himself as being the only one who could be the hero, despite all the evidence pointing to the contrary.

Jacques was correct that Ironwood was becoming a tyrant, but he was only doing so out of his own self-centered greed.

And so on and so on.

The ultimate point I get from the series is that defying the odds and making the world better doesn't suddenly make the villains and cynics completely wrong; it's just that we shouldn't allow the cynics and villains to be the one who get to define what is right and wrong, and that our efforts to improve and progress the world are not rendered in vain just because misery and pain still happens regardless of what we want to occur otherwise.

And frankly, I'd argue that Penny ALREADY proved the Gods wrong.

She came back from death TWICE. That is HUGE. That is OPEN DEFIANCE of the Gods' bullshit.

It's just that reality is still reality. She made a poor decision in coming back to fight with her friends despite barely recovering from her ordeal with the virus, and it doomed her.

But she still DID defy her fate, and that's not irrelevant just because she ultimately died in the end. Her existence, as tragic as the ending may be, proved that the Gods were full of shit, and that the Gods shouldn't be allowed to dictate terms for what THEY think Life and Death is.

The big problem I think is that people fundamentally refuse to value anything that isn't an absolute victory or an absolute loss. Even when they want a gray situation, they still subconsciously stick it into purely black and white frameworks in order to keep things comfortable and straightforward.

mm. the argument that penny coming back again is a necessary refutation of the gods [and sometimes of salem, a line of reasoning that i find baldly absurd] is interesting to me for how it demands the presupposition that death itself is evil; that the gods are wrong for having created a world where things are mortal. and that’s a critical misreading of rwby’s core thesis. death is simply… an ending, and life goes on; grief is a kind of love and can bring comfort and strength as well as sorrow. immortality is explicitly a curse, explicitly a means of torture—the gods are not cruel because they allow death to exist but because they murder people and withhold death to punish salem. it is their deliberate, malicious violations of the natural cycle of life and death that makes them evil.

this is not a story where bringing someone back from the dead is necessarily a good thing. nor is it a story where the desire to do so is bad, or deserving of punishment. it’s a story about grief and the obligation of compassion for grief. to say a character must be brought back from the dead to prove the gods wrong [or to spite salem, christ alive] is to miss the point.

the story structures major character deaths as classical tragedies for a reason. and then people go “well they can’t let penny stay dead after everyone tried so hard to save her, that’s just sad” like the entire point of classical tragedy isn’t to say “in the end, they fell, but they still tried, and it matters that they tried, and it matters that they were here.” it’s like going to a musical and complaining when the characters sing gjshdjbk

more.. generally yeah the fandom has a dreadful habit of trying to apply the moral logic of fairytales to a story that is overtly critiquing the moral logic of fairytales, and similarly of presuming that moral correctness innately correlates to ideological correctness in a story that explicitly handles morality and ideology as discrete and often contradictory beliefs, and being completely unable to parse what rwby is doing with its villains as a consequence.

#but yeah transhumanist readings of rwby are HYSTERICAL

18 notes · View notes

aspoonofsugar · 2 years

Note

So, I keep seeing some takes on Em and Merc that seem to me as good victim and bad victim and I am scared this is where their story is going!

Hello anon!

I share @hamliet's thoughts on the matter, as for now. However, you give me the chance to explore some ideas that may be interesting thematically and structurally. I'll start from something hamliet said in her post:

If anything, Emercury’s story has the potential–deliberate or unintentional–to deconstruct the concepts of “good vs bad victim.”

The idea of the murder kids deconstructing good victim and bad victim is super interesting to me and - either intentionally or unintentionally - there are some elements that may suggest this is the case.

GOOD VICTIM VS BAD VICTIM

A morality trope about the often arbitrary distinctions writers make between certain sorts of victims. If a character in fiction has a problem or ailment or social situation, and the creators intend him to be sympathetic, the character will have acquired the problem in the most socially acceptable way. If the character isn't sympathetic, then he will have contracted the illness through "your own damn fault".

This definition by TV Tropes explains rather well what this trope is. It is the idea some victims are "better" because they express their victimhood in a more acceptable way compared to others. In some stories this ends up with only the good victim gaining sympathy, while the bad one is punished and condemned.

As per every trope, it can be executed well. Exploring how 2 people process their abuse and pain differently and how one may recover, while the other spirals out can be interesting. The important thing is to do so with empathy and with as little hypocrisy as possible. For example, even if it can be triggering... I like Zuko and Azula's arcs in ATLA. Zuko finds redemption, while Azula is defeated. However, Azula's arc is very interesting psychologically and I at least think it is executed with empathy. The story makes clear Azula is a victim as much as Zuko is. However, she is never able to get help or to truly face her feelings, so she has a bad ending. She is not portrayed as a monster, but as a person with glimpses of good in her that are never capitalized on. This makes her very human.

Now, RWBY plays with this trope, as well. For example, our abused heroes are all more sympathetic/likable than our abused villains. Blake and Weiss escape abuse by choosing to become huntresses, while Emerald, Mercury and Cinder lash out at the world because in pain. Despite this, I am so far rather happy of how RWBY is exploring victimhood.

For example, it is true Weiss and Blake are superficially "good victims", but they still show ugly sides specifically because of their abusers. Weiss is initially cold, entitled and racist. Blake instead is trying to find redemption from a life as a terrorist. These sides of the 2 girls are not explored much because both are already moving in the right direction by the beginning of the story. However, they are still present.

Similarly, RWBY lets its characters process trauma and abuse differently. For example, the Schnees' reactions to their family situation are contrasting. Willow and Winter both close off in opposite ways. Willow does so passively, while Winter actively. Willow stays, but is unable to help her kids, while Winter leaves, but still tries to help Weiss. Both put distance between themselves and their loved ones as a reaction to Jacques's abuse. Weiss and Whitley instead try to be like Jacques wants them to be. Initially, Weiss plays the part of the perfect Heiress, while Whitley presents himself as shallow, two-faced and ruthless. Despite this, all characters are shown empathy even if they make mistakes and have unlikable traits.

In short, so far RWBY has done a decent job when it comes to abuse (and this is true for CEM especially). Still, how do Emerald and Mercury come into this and how do they play into the good victim vs bad victim dychotomy?

BAD KID AND WORSE KID

Emerald and Mercury are both "bad victims" strictly speaking. They have gone through traumatic experiences in their childhood, but they still choose to hurt others out of love (Emerald) and fear (Mercury).

Despite this, there is a tendency in fandom (at least apparently, like... never trust internet and loud voices) to consider Emerald more likable/better/less guilty than Mercury. This tendency seems superficially supported in-universe too.

For example, the protagonists themselves are shown to prefer Emerald over Mercury while interacting at Beacon:

Ruby: That's great. Uh. Why don't we all go and get a victory food together?

Emerald: Oh, gosh, that's so nice of you, but my teammates are all kind of… (looking back at Mercury as he sniffs the inside of a boot, looking perplexed after he does so) …introverted. Really socially awkward.

Yang: Ooh, yeah, I could see that.

Similarly, there are some hints in openings:

In volume 6 the murder kids are shown looking in opposite directions (Em Hazel's, while Merc Tyrian's). What is more, Em is somber, while Merc smiles a little.

In volume 8 too Mercury is shown as a part of Salem's inner circle and he is smiling in a mean way.

However, one needs to simply look at Mercury and Emerald's interactions and actions in-series to realize that these are simply superficial red herrings, as for now.

No matter how much Mercury tells Emerald, the audience and himself he is happy where he is. It is clear as day, he is not. He is deeply scared.

Emerald's progress instead has been possible only because she has received a ton of help and has been much luckier than Mercury.

Let's explore these idea sand let's start with the way Salem has handled the 2 kids after Cinder's disappearence in volume 6.

STEALING ASSETS

It is implied Salem dislikes Cinder's tendency to collect "assets":

Salem: Hm, you certainly do enjoy collecting assets.

She clearly wants Cinder to be isolated, so that she can be under her complete control. What is more, she in general likes to abuse and completely drag into servitude everyone around her. Love, trust, personal wishes. Everything must come after her:

Salem: It's important not to lose sight of what drives us: Love, justice, reverence…But, the moment you put your desires before my own… they will be lost to you.

The same goes for the murder kids and Salem's interactions with them in volume 6 are meant to convey this. The moment Cinder is weakened and away, Salem immediately closes in on Emerald and Mercury and targets their bond with Cinder. She specifically starts with Em because she is the most fervently loyal to the Fall Maiden:

Salem: Emerald… I want you to tell me whose fault this was. Now.

Emerald: Cinder! We failed because of Cinder…

This whole interaction is a way to implement control on her subordinates. Hazel, Emerald and Mercury have failed, but their whole conversation with Salem is really not about their failure. It is a way for her to break them and bring them under her thumb even more. Hazel is not the reason they lost at Haven, but him being ready to take the blame is considered unacceptable. Either Hazel or Mercury could very easily tell Salem Cinder is the one at fault. However, Salem explicitly asks Emerald. She already knows Cinder is the one responsible, but she specifically wants Em to confirm it as a way to make her betray Cinder.

These are all abusive tactics because all of Salem's relationships are abusive. Not just Ozpin or Cinder, but all the other members of her inner circle are her victims. They need to adore her and can easily be punished for the most trivial thing if Salem feels like it.

Volume 6 is where she starts to extend her manipulative claws directly on the kids because there is no Cinder to mediate anymore. The result is that she incites different reactions into them:

Emerald: I just… Cinder was the only family I ever had. She cared about me, taught me things… But without her here, I don't know if what we're doing--

Mercury: You may not like it here without Cinder, but I think I'm right where I'm supposed to be!

Em who can't be abused through fear alone starts to have doubts. Merc instead who has been brought up by an abuser adopts his coping mechanism to become who his abuser wants him to be.

In any case, Salem has a pretty solid grip on both by this point. However, things start to change in the Atlas arc.

TAKEN AWAY

The moment Emerald and Mercury leave Monstra's belly they start different opposite journeys. On the one hand Emerald takes the path of redemption. On the other hand Mercury follows Tyrian in what is probably going to be a a horrible spiral of abuse.

What is interesting, though, is that both kids show very little agency for such pivotal moments in their stories. In a sense, rather than them making a choice, it is more like them being taken away by people on opposite sides of the conflict.

Mercury is literally dragged away by Tyrian and pushed on an airship he is not driving. In stories and dreams not driving a car or some other vehicle is symbolic of not being in control of where you are going. That is clearly the case here. Mercury has clearly zero agency in what is happening. What he does however is to fake control. This is his default coping mechanism. He discovers Salem wants to destroy the world and, before he can process the information, he is taken away and trapped more. So, he deflects the truth and moves forward on the path decided for him.

Emerald is instead encouraged to leave, protected and finally saved by Hazel. She is framed not as a heroine or as a villain making a decisive choice to gain redemption. Rather, she is presented as a child in need of understanding and protection. She is not the one taking the initiative to confront Oscar about the Lamp. She is not the one choosing they should leave. She does not take the most risky part in the operation. Finally, she makes no sacrifice. These are all actions took by Hazel, who is clearly the protagonist of the Witch Episode. Emerald is instead just a tag along.

In short, the kids are presented superficially as taking opposite paths. However, this "choice" is actually pretty much determined by others, at least partially. This is important because the authors could have made their respective decisions more resonant and poignant if they wanted to. They could have framed Mercury as in control (and not as an abused child) the moment he chooses to make a step further in his villanious path. Alternatively, they could have made Emerald more active and more pivotal in Hazel's redemption. For example, Em could have been the one freeing Oscar, they could have been confronted by Hazel and could have convinced him to interrogate the Lamp. This dynamic would have changed basically nothing on Oscar and Hazel's side of the story. Oscar would have still gone through Em and Hazel, while Hazel would have still defected and saved Em in the process. The only difference would have been to make Emerald more of an active part in her own defection.

However, this does not happen and Em and Merc seem much more like 2 abused kids that get better and spiral because of the context around them. Em is helped and saved, while Merc is trapped and isolated. This brings a series of interesting questions. For example, would have Emerald been able to escape if she were the one dragged away and trapped with Tyrian? Would have Hazel saved Merc too if he were the one on Monstra by the time he defects?

CHARACTERS, NOT PACKAGES

Obviously, I don't mean Emerald and Mercury could have been swapped and the story would have been the same. They are shown to specifically have opposite coping mechanisms and opposite reactions to the situation they are in. These behaviours bring different consequences that are independend from the context around them.

Emerald has always shown the most remorse over CEM's actions and she has always been more open about her feelings. This makes it easier for her to think about leaving the moment she realizes Cinder does not care. Mercury has instead always been more guarded and repressed, preferring to ignore his own feelings to avoid hurt. So, it is obvious that partly it is their different behaviours that make so they end on different paths.

What I wanted to highlight, however, is how much of their respective situations is also influenced by others. Emerald is scared of Tyrian and Salem, just like Mercury is. The moment Tyrian appears she cowers away in fear. Similarly, Salem touching her is enough for her losing all willingness to struggle. This is not because she is a coward, but it is the result of abuse. The same goes from Mercury, who lets himself be dragged away by Tyrian with no resistance. At the same time, both kids trust Hazel to an extent because he has been protecting both since Haven.

In short, Salem has been abusing both kids, Tyrian has been terroryzing them and Hazel has been protecting them. However, in volume 8 Emerald is taken away from Salem's clutches, while Mercury slips deeper into them. Similarly, Tyrian isolates Mercury, while Hazel sends Emerald away with her peers. At the same time, this outcome also makes sense with their respective arcs and reactions. Emerald finally sees Cinder for who she is and is rewarded. Mercury instead keeps repressing who he is and is punished.

As for now, there is a good equilibrium between showing Em progressing and Merc stagnating and making clear how she is given a lot for very little and he is given disproportionate retribution. This mix makes it difficult for me to believe they are just going for a good vicitm vs bad victim dynamic, especially when one considers the structure of their individual arcs.

EMERALD - REDEMPTION ARC OR ARC WITH REDEMPTIVE ELEMENTS?

Emerald's arc is just beginning, but some people are already criticizing it because it does not perfectly fit the classic redemption arc structure, which is described in this great post. However, I am gonna argue this is simply because Emerald's arc... is not really a redemption arc, but rather a positive change arc with some redemptive elements.

What does it mean?

Generally speaking, redemption arcs are always positive change arcs aka stories where the character has a positive transformation. However, redemption arcs are also a specific kind of positive change arc defined by well... redemption. By this I mean that a character getting redeemed is usually the very climax of the arc / a huge turning point and it usually happens close to the end of the story/ storyarc/ character story.

For example, Zuko and Catra get redeemed in the very last season of their respective shows. Moreover, for both getting redemption is a huge part of their stories. To Zuko it means overcoming his pride by giving up his royal status and leads to his relationship with Aang to change completely. To Catra it means to finally become selfless in her love for Adora, which in turn leads to the 2 of them ending up together. Notice also that for both Zuko and Catra their bond with respectively Aang and Adora is a major part of their characters. Zuko is Aang's pursuer since ep 1, while Catra is Adora's love interest.

When it comes to Emerald, this is not true. She finds redemption/is accepted into the main group at the beginning/in the first half of her story. Moreover, she has no special connection nor role in RWBYJNR's arcs and is starting just now to develop a bond (hence a narrative role) with Oscar. However, the 2 characters key to her story are not really the heroes, but rather Mercury and Cinder.

This difference has also consequences on a structural level. These are the phases of a "classic redemption arc" applied to Ilia's arc.

Initial crime - Ilia spies on Blake and stabs Sun while running away

Worsening of the crime - Ilia ruins the Belladonna's conference and takes part in a plan to kidnap Blake and kill her parents

Reckoning - Blake goes to meet Ilia and confronts her over her actions. Later on during their fight Blake keeps trying to get through to her.

Refusal of the reckoning - Ilia keeps refusing Blake's words and fights her

Suffering - Throughout the whole volume Ilia is shown doubtful, regretful, confused and in pain. This comes to a climax in her fight with Blake.

Acceptance - When Blake mentions her parents, Ilia starts becoming less assertive. Similarly, after Ghira saves her she is shown to have lost all willingness to fight.

More suffering - After the fight is over, she is desperate and starts crying.

Selfless sacrifice - She stunts the last standing man of the White Feng finishing the fight. This counts as a sacrifice because in this moment she is choosing to give up and to accept her arrest if it means the Belladonnas are safe. Later on, she is also the first one to answer to Blake's call in juxtaposition to her previous disturbance action towards Ghira.

Forgiveness - Ilia is forgiven by Blake, Sun and the Belladonnas.

Ilia's arc follows the basic structure. She has also a final redeeming moment in the Battle of Haven, where she disables the bombs and saves everyone. Let's highlight that the above structure does not go in the way of a classical positive change arc. Ilia starts the story believing a lie (Faunus can fight for equality only through hate and violence), but by the end she has learnt the truth (hate is not an answer and even if difficult one must fight to break the cycle of violence).

Emerald's arc instead does not exactly follow this structure. It seems to initially, but at one point there is a key step missing. To be specific:

Initial crime - Emerald together with Mercury helps Cinder to kill Amber

Worsening of the crime - The Fall of Beacon and all in between

Reckoning - She has 2 linked to 2 different flaws. Firstly, the famous "it is almost sad" comment. Secondly, Mercury telling her at point-blank Cinder does not care

Refusal of the reckoning - She keeps following Cinder no matter what

Suffering - All her scenes in Evernight, her crying at the battle of Haven, her crying while protecting Cinder from Penny

Acceptance - Once again she has 2. Firstly, the one on the Monstra Bridge, where she realizes Cinder treats her like Salem treats Cinder. Secondly, in Atlas underground where she sees people and children in danger because of the war

More suffering - She loses Hazel and is almost tortured by Salem

Selfless sacrifice - SHE LACKS ONE

Forgiveness - She is accepted into the main group after her attempted apology. Yes, obviously there might still be conflict (hopefully), but from what we have seen RWBYJNRO have all been pretty quick to welcome her.

Obviously, the key step which is missing is that of the selfless sacrifice. This moment is super important not just in redemption arcs, but in character arcs in general. That is because it is a climatic moment. Usually, the sacrifice is linked to the character flaw and to the want vs need. For example, Zuko sacrifices his position as Prince and his honor to do the right thing and go help Aang. Catra instead overcomes her selfishness by saving Glimmer. She helps Adora not to have something in exchange, but because she genuinely loves her and wants her to be safe and happy. Let's highlight that both Zuko and Adora are also tested again in the finale. Zuko sacrifices himself for Katara, while Catra sacrifices herself for Adora.

Emerald has so far sacrificed nothing for others. Neither has she been truly tested on her main flaw, which is her dependence on Cinder. She will probably be later on as it is possible her sacrifice will happen in the future. In this case, though, it is possible this climatic moment is not really a part of Emerald's redemption, but rather a resulf of it. Specifically, it arrives after she is forgiven and has reconciled with the main group.

This kind of structure is really nothing new for RWBY. It is actually the series "abusive survivor arc tm".

The survivor is able to escape the abuser, like Weiss and Blake in the White and Black trailers.

They find a healthy environment where they can grow stronger, like team RWBY and Beacon for Weiss and Blake.

They meet the abuser again and temporally regress, like Blake running from Adam and Weiss obediently following Jacques home.

They realize they are now stronger and can face and defeat the abuser. This happens with Blake defeating Adam and Weiss overcoming Jacques.

Emerald is now at the very first step of this journey. She has finally found the strength to leave Cinder and is now in a much healthier environment. She'll grow stronger from now on and will eventually be able to confront Cinder. This is the trajectory her story is taking and it is very similar to that of Blake and Weiss's. The theme here, much more than redemption is the breaking of the cycle of abuse. At the same time, Emerald has not only an antagonist to face (Cinder), but also a person to save (Mercury). Mercury is who Emerald might have been if she ended up stuck in Salem's inner circle instead of being saved. Just like Weiss's goal is to save her family (and not to renegade it) and Blake's to help the Faunus (and not to give up on them), Emerald's final objective should be to help Mercury out of the cycle as well.

MERCURY - AN IGNORED GOAL AND A REPRESSED WANT

Mercury's arc is a little behind Emerald's. However, there are still interesting consideration to make about it.

Firstly, if we consider it as a redemption arc in nuce, then he has gone through:

Initial crime - Same as Emerald

Worsening of the crime - Same as Emerald

Reckoning - Merc too has 2 and. Just like Em's, the first is about his personal journey, while the second is about the general conflict. Firstly, Tyrian spells out to him that he is just a scared kid. Secondly, Tyrian confirms Salem wants indeed to destroy the world. Let's highlight both times the reckoning is started by Emerald confronting Mercury, even if then it is Tyrian that drives it home

Refusal of the Reckoning - He chooses to follow Salem's orders despite Emerald's warnings

Suffering - Like Emerald, he has started this the moment he stepped in Evernight. However, it is clear his fun trip with Tyrian will drive this point home even more

Secondly, if we consider the "abusive survivor arc tm", then Mercury is clearly an inversion of it:

He kills his father, but instead of being freed, he gets trapped psychologically

He finds Emerald and Cinder and instead than a healthy environements ends up in another violent and abusive dynamic

He is now with his main abuser once again. Sure, Marcus is dead, but Tyrian is a clear step in

Basically, while Blake, Weiss and Emerald are given a chance to grow into a different environment, Mercury is negated it and keeps spiraling because of this. This arc too is not unique to him and can be called the "stuck with bad parental substitudes arc tm". It is shared by Cinder, obviously, but also by Winter (Jacques + Ironwood). Interestingly, all these characters seem to have a negative force and a positive force fighting over their souls. To Winter she must choose between Penny or Ironwood's philosophies. Cinder will have to choose between Salem and Ruby's. For Mercury, his 2 key characters are clearly set up to be Tyrian (abusive father step-in) and Emerald (who he might become and only loved one).

That said, when it comes to Mercury's story, the very interesting part comes by considering its set up. To be more specific, is Mercury's arc set up as a change arc or as a steadfast arc? Given the fact Mercury is introduced as a negative character, he can either stay steadfast (so remain negative and even spiral more) or grow and turn into a positive character.

I am gonna argue Mercury's arc is set up as a positive change arc because of this:

Mercury: And when I unlocked my Semblance, he stole it with his! "This is a crutch!" "This makes you weak!" He told me I could have it back when I was strong. So I got strong, but I never got it back!

Mercury's missing semblance is a perfect character goal. A character goal is something needed in an arc. A character has a want that is represented by a physical goal. In order to reach the goal and fulfill the want, the character struggles with a flaw. Sometimes this basic structure gets complicated by the need vs want conflict. The character's want is not really what the character needs, so in the end they give up the want in order to get the need and reach true happiness.

For example, Emerald and Cinder's arcs are variations of the want vs need structure. Emerald wants to have a true family, which gets concretized in 2 conflicting goals. On the one hand what Emerald pursues is a relationship with Cinder. On the other hand what Emerald should pursue is a relationship with RWBYJNRO and Mercury. Cinder is the family she wants, but the others and Mercury especially are the family she needs. Similarly, Cinder wants to be powerful (want), but what she needs is to accept herself for who she is, so that her personhood and humanity are affirmed and recognized (need). This is all obviously linked to a want she is repressing that is her desire to be free. She tries to reach it through power, but she can only get it through choice.

When it comes to Mercury, his set up goal is to try and get his semblance back, which is clearly linked to the want to be himself instead than his father. However, what's interesting is that so far Mercury has done nothing to pursue this wish. He is not serving Salem because she has promised him he can get his semblance back, for example. Similarly, this detail of his background gets revealed only in volume 6. Think of how Emerald's desire to be loved by Cinder and Cinder's thirst for power are instead presented immediately in Beginning of the End, which is CEM's pivotal episode. This does not happen to Mercury, who tells the audience about his missing semblance only when prompted and provoked by Emerald. This is because Mercury has clearly given up on his want in favor of his need. Basically, his arc can be read as an inversion of the classical needs vs wants arc. He does what he needs to survive (he obeys Salem/Cinder/Marcus/Tyrian, kills and hurts others), but by doing so he has completely repressed what he wants. This explains why he is the most passive of CEM. Obviously he is passive, he is telling himself there is nothing he really wants! Except clearly there is or he would not have brought his semblance up with Emerald. Similarly, he would not care about Emerald so deeply if she had not come to be a part of who he is and what he wants.

It is obvious that Mercury will be at one point asked to choose between surviving (basic need) or truly being himself (his repressed want). This choice will probably be framed with him having to choose between his (fake) safety and Emerald. By choosing her, he will actually be choosing himself and living.

TWO SIDES OF A BAD VICTIM

Emerald and Mercury's arc being an exploration of good victim and bad victim played straight would be detrimental for both their stories.

Emerald's positive arc would be shallow because of how luck and help she received in juxtaposition to Mercury. They are presented as a set, are guilty of the exact same crimes and are similarly abused and victimized. It would actually also be potentially distasteful if the one saved is the girl with a powerful semblance (so abled), while the boy whose semblance is stolen (so disabled) gets left behind. Like, it is not even a secret Emerald's powerful semblance is actually one of the reasons why she is accepted so quickly into the group. Oscar comments on how useful her power is and Weiss uses it to trick Ironwood.

Mercury's negative arc would simply be a waste of set up in 90% of the cases. Why setting up an objective Mercury is not even pursuing? It would be different if by pursuing it he were to spiral, but so far Mercury has been incredibly passive in his "villanious path" (differently from Cinder, for example). Sure, things may change in future volumes, but for now he is clearly framed as a lost child rather than a cruel villain.

Finally, having 1 kid getting redemption and the other 1 spiralling and dying would not work for the greater narrative and for what Emerald and Mercury represent in it. They are clealry meant to be 2 sides of the series most relevant bad victim:

Emerald and Mercury's arcs are meant to comment Cinder's and to show what she needs to eventually do to free herself from the cycle. Her whole arc is probably gonna be a combination of Emerald and Mercury's. Because of this, both kids need to find redemption for Cinder to have hers. Sorry, but there are really not exceptions here. Cinder is the 2 kids' authority figure, who fails and abuses them. For her to get redemption, while one of her kids does not would be like Jacques getting redeemed while Whitley or Winter do not. It is not impossible to pull off (like everything in writing), but RWBY is rather direct when it comes to foiling, character hierarchies and framing. Emerald and Mercury are framed as kids more directly than Cinder is, they have killed no major character, they are not abusing people below them. Hence they are getting redeemed before Cinder herself.

#rwby #rwby murder kids #emerald sustrai #mercury black #asksfullofsugar #anonymous #just some blubbering on structures #which obviously is not perfect #but it let me touch and think about interesting structures #rwby meta

51 notes · View notes

constantvariations · 1 year

Note

Hi, it's the same anon. We see Jaune and his sister's relationship before the trip to Atlas. It's warm. They fool around. Also, Jaune without hatred or aggression tells Ruby he has 7 sisters. Compare this to Weiss. We learn Jacques is bad not even from Weiss. We find out it is Blake who is talking about SDC. In v1 we are shown motivated the characters to go to Beacon and what their relationships are with their families. We see the difference between the Weiss and Ruby families. We are immediately given to understand Jacques is a bad person. We are given to understand that part of Yang's family is fractured and she loves Summer as her mother. But she keeps looking for Raven. We see Summer is dead. We see Summer was a good mother. We see who Ruby got her inspiration from. Ruby has a favorite uncle. Even Blake tells us very little information about herself. Yes, she grew up among the White Fang and went to protests. But she still has privileges. They talk about the problems of the faunus, but do not show them. We know there is a White Fang. They have protests that have gone too far. But we don't see any racism toward the fauns. Even in the most racist kingdom, we don't see racism. We see an unfortunate example of racism when the heroes just show up in town. And that's it. That's just it. There is a faunus among the Ace-Ops and no one cares. No one makes racist comments. Although Marrow's portrayal of himself is very racist. They made him a dark-skinned dog/wolf on purpose, didn't they? And they kept trying to show us how good he was. He was getting into all the timeline they had. He was a very handy tool when they decided to make James evil. Jaune doesn't talk about being forbidden to train. Jaune just went along with the crime. Blake had a reason for running away. Jaune had no reason to run away. He's just a fantasist. He didn't even know anything about the aura. Aura is a hunter's most basic skill. I wouldn't be surprised if they told us that Jaune had an abusive family all along and was forbidden to look at guns because he was a boy.

Hello again, anon! I have no idea what draws you to my blog in particular for these, but I am pleasantly surprised

Jaune’s family is mostly an enigma. Yes, we see him and Saphron (honestly I forget she exists 99% of the time) and it is a saccharine sibling dynamic, but they never mention any of the other sisters. No names, no shared memories, nothing beside the fact that Jaune and Saphron are the only ones not living at home. (Ngl when I first heard that my immediate thought was that it was a cult family and these two were the only ones to escape. It’d be a really cool subplot imo.) I think there’s a single off-handed line about Jaune’s parents in one of the early seasons, but I don’t care enough to check. Either way, there’s no concrete evidence as to the web of dynamics in the Arc family

I can’t agree with the assessment that Blake, in talking about the SDC as a whole, is the one to introduce the idea of Jacques not being a good person. A company isn’t a person. That’s like trying to pin all of RT’s own scandals on one person instead of acknowledging it’s a massive mess with dozens of participants. It’s still Weiss who talks about Jacques as a person when she tells the group that his anger at business gone bad made for a difficult childhood, and it’s through her story that we learn more of who he is as both a father and a businessman

I’m not entirely sure the purpose of the comparison between the RWBY families. It circles back to your issues with Blake and the White Fang, but I don’t know how the two connect. Unless they weren’t supposed to? It’s difficult to read long asks when there’s no paragraph breaks between topics

The racism in RWBY is poorly implemented because its writers were and are cowards about their world. They want the aesthetics of deep themes and adult topics, but have no idea about how to actually do that. What we end up with is la croix racism, where bigotry looks like high school bullying (Velvet getting her ears pulled, Robin calling Marrow “Wags,” some drunkards being mean to Blake)

When you make peace with the fact that RWBY is written by people who have no idea what they’re doing, you’ll have way more fun with this series. It won’t erase the bad writing, the promises of representation that they backpedaled on, the inherent bigotry throughout the show, BUT it will give you enough distance from the Watsonian universe that you can pluck the parts of the show you like and run away with them in your imagination

That’s why there’s so many rewrites - and the especially fun thing about that is how every individual’s experience/interpretation will dramatically change how they rearrange RWBY. No Remnant will look exactly the same as another and I think that’s beautiful

#rwde #ngl anon im v curious abt what prompted these messages #im not usually the person people send whole ass essays to lol but i do enjoy replying to them #you also seem v invested in blake jaune and weiss #specifically in dragging both blake and jaune at weiss's feet #you aint gotta justify your love of weiss my guy. shes a fun character. love away #and honestly im always down for jaune hate so long as its accurate #idc how many times crwby say jaunes not an author insert. yes he is. hes a manic pixie dream girl #why bother hating on shit thats entirely speculation when the show is like. right there #blakes just disappointing through and through #she was my fav until v4 rolled around ;^;#i miss that sarcastic deadpan bitch #who is this new girl. i dont know her #thanks for asking #anon hours

1 note · View note

fishyfod · 3 years

Text

Winter & Yang Parallels and Contrasts

A comparison of Winter Schnee and Yang Xiao Long, and how they are shaped by their society and circumstances.

Or a thinly veiled excuse to gush about two characters I like

[gif by 5by5brittana]

This is split into four parts:

Pre Volume 1 backstory and characteristics

Relationship with younger siblings

Parallel Journeys between V1-5 and V7-8

Rough Speculation for Volume 8

Spoilers for RWBY V8 E1-7. Under the cut because this turned out very long.

Also, take this with a grain of salt? I wrote this for fun. This really is just, me going off the deep end.

I. Childhood and Upbringing

Winter and Yang are both the eldest children of their respective families, and have spent most of their lives growing up in the shadows of their legacies: the Schnee name and the fallout of team STRQ. These legacies are tragedies, and for better and for worse Winter and Yang are in the unique position where they also know the before, the brief time their families were whole (at least on paper). As their families broke apart, Winter and Yang have felt the need to fill the parent role for their younger siblings (more on that later).

This is the curse of the parent-sibling*, in which the lines between adulthood, childhood and parenthood are all blurred together when one is still a child. Winter grew up as Willow and Jacques’s facade of a marriage slowly fell apart and Willow turned to alcohol, leaving Weiss and Whitley under the care of Jacques - a manipulative abuser - and someone had to step up between him and Weiss and Whitley. Klein, it should be noted, was the exception to the rule, as most staff reported to Jacques. Yang never had Raven, she lost Summer and for a while Taiyang after he shut down - someone had to take care of Ruby. Qrow just couldn’t be a full-time replacement to any of them

* [I believe the professional term is “parentification”.]

[RWBY Official Manga Anthology Vol. 4: I Burn]

This is Winter and Yang’s own personal tragedy, and as inspiring as it might seem from the outside - a mature, responsible child that helps parent their younger sibling - it is not at all healthy for the child in question. It does not matter if things might’ve improved later, the damage has already been done. Parent-siblings tend to become caretakers as well, and this manifests in both Yang and Winter, albeit in very different ways.

Which leads me to the next point, which is to emphasize the differences in both of these scenarios. The expectations from the Schnee name are very much a product of high-class society and Atlas superiority, which is very different from STRQ’s private falling out. Winter is roughly 7 and 10 years older than Weiss and Whitley, so she’s about 12 when Weiss (5 at the time) would become more aware of Jacques’s behavior, 17 when Willow began drinking. Yang was about 6 when Summer disappeared and the trek to the woods happened, and it is unknown for how long Taiyang shut down. Willow became seriously depressed just before Winter left for Atlas, whereas Taiyang eventually got back on his feet. Winter was abused by Jacques, Yang was abandoned by Raven.

Winter’s speech often involves doublespeak with hidden meanings, a strict deference to decorum, and a fair share of veiled (or unveiled) insults. She is closed off, and rarely engages in open physical contact. In private with her siblings or close friends, she tends to be softer, and may hug or pat on one’s shoulders. She has learnt this behavior in order to navigate Atlas society and quell her father whilst protecting herself and her siblings. Unfortunately, Klein appears to be the only staff to put the children’s needs before his servitude to Jacques, so even Winter’s interactions with Weiss and Whitley are soured by this prim, and at times, hurtful behavior; even then appearances must be kept. This is why Winter doesn’t act like a typical “Mom friend”, and why her need to take care of others manifests differently: in her conscience and willpower to protect others. Hence, she trains to become a huntress, the personification of protection, a way to help despite her difficulties expressing that need more conventionally.

Yang is open and outgoing, an easy conversationalist and very physically affectionate with her peers. She is upbeat, and also tactful at the same time. Why? Some of it has to do with her severe abandonment issues, making her more prone to bask in her connections to others. Equally important are the experience and circumstances she had growing up. She grew up in Patch, a relatively small community that is at best middle class. She had Ruby - only two years younger - to entertain and to teach, and in such a small household that also means many chores and mundane responsibilities to take on. By all accounts, Taiyang made enough of a recovery from his depression to parent well enough, and seems a fairly affectionate person himself. With all this encouragement and learnt skills, little hinders Yang from caring for Ruby and others openly and proudly. Ergo, Yang acts like a “Mom friend”.

These are Winter and Yang’s main personas, one uncaring and one unreserved. It is only natural that away from prying eyes or when put on the edge, they drop the facade and act contrary to it. For example, when Winter is angry or provoked, she lashes out and loses her composure. Usually, when Yang is angry she acts quite cold and restrained in her anger, and tries to project an unaffected persona. Alone with those she loves, Winter is more open and talkative, where Yang allows herself to be melancholic.

Yang may be open and candid, and could even be described as wearing her heart on her sleeve, but she is extremely reticent when admitting weakness or sharing her own personal grievances. Which is incredibly like Winter, though she is also taciturn in general. They have a tendency to avoid creating truly personal connections with others. They’re both used to putting on mask of strength and reassurance, and are quite adept at controlling their emotions (to a point). This is a defensive mechanism - they emulate the adults in their lives (who know the values of keeping up appearances) since they do not believe they will be taken seriously otherwise. They have internalized that no one will act on their behalf unless they offer something in return. By acting quasi-maternally to their younger siblings, they continue this act because it’s how they think a responsible adult should raise children.

[RWBY Official Manga Anthology Vol. 2: Mirror, Mirror]

The “practice” in home on their sisters developed in them the belief they should put others before themselves, even outside their family. Selfless as it may be, without moderation this behavior could be quite unhealthy. The lack of concern to themselves makes them feel lost and without purpose, with low self esteem and self-destructive tendencies.

Winter gives up the luxury of the Schnee inheritance for servitude in the army, a perfect place for someone who believes herself expendable. She says her personal feelings don’t matter, and is willing to throw down her life for others. Sounds familiar? Yang wants to become a huntress, which conveniently allows her to help others while drifting along life with no true purpose. She has very low self esteem initially, and her semblance literally benefits her taking hits for everyone else.

Intertwined with this, is a desire to find purpose, and to find value in oneself. They seek independence and a sense of control. For Winter, this meant training in the Atlas Academy and abdicating the title of Schnee Heiress. She remembers well when she could no longer rely on her father’s allowance. For Yang, it’s having a bike of her own and going out at night. She becomes protective of her appearance and long hair.

It’s worth noting that particularly a physical aspect of this independence - fighting - was something taught to them by the neglectful parents. Taiyang taught Yang to fight hand-to-hand before Beacon, and the hereditary nature of the Schnee semblance means Willow was most likely Winter’s first mentor.

Part of this behavior is also a need to escape the situation at home. With Winter that goes without saying - Jacques is abusive. Yang wants to leave the home she held together when she was a child; note her desire to travel the world, and her attempts to distance herself from Ruby so she won’t have to be relied upon even at Beacon.

In a sense, they’re both searching for the same thing - a parent to replace the ones who failed them. Ironwood and Raven both offer to be their replacement parent, at the cost of asking the children to leave with them to a new home, the one they’re leading and ruling. This doesn’t fix their family problem, and personally I believe neither Winter nor Yang full-heartily saw it as a solution, but they were both desperate enough to find anyone - anyone at all - that would take a weight off their shoulders and put them first. Yang searches for Raven, hoping she’ll find in her a mother despite everything. Fortunately for her, Qrow saved her from running after Raven prematurely. Unfortunately for Winter, James’s close friendship with Jacques meant he has known her from a young age, had observed how Jacques manipulates her and her family, and eventually offered himself as a savior from her situation at home. He had subtly groomed her into thinking the military - and more importantly, himself - was her only option to escape Jacques.

Despite this major difference, some similarities between Yang and Raven’s relationship and Winter and Ironwood’s relationship persist: the bandit lifestyle Raven offers Yang is militant and violent, similar to Ironwood’s army. Yang’s learnt conditional trust in authority would fit quite well with a bandit hierarchy built on perceived strength. Winter’s authoritarian outlook lends itself quite well to rise up in the ranks of the military.

Lastly, I’d like to point out the “inherited” philosophies of their respective replacement parents:

Raven’s philosophy: The weak die, so the strong survive on their own.

Yang’s philosophy: If I am not strong, I am weak and will be alone.

Ironwood’s philosophy: Every sacrifice is worth the cause.

Winter’s philosophy: I am not worth anything, so I can be sacrificed.

They’re all destructive mindsets, but the children inverted the implied destruction caused to others into their own self-destruction, in concordance with their shared need to put others before themselves. Part of the children’s progression will be to rise above these philosophies.

II. Yang & Ruby vs. Winter & Weiss

In the previous section I explained why Winter and Yang both act quasi-maternal and how it affected their growth and character. Now let’s examine their primary familial relationship, with their younger sisters Weiss and Ruby.

The simple truth is that much of what I said about Winter and Yang’s childhood is equally true for Weiss and Ruby, which could be explained quite easily - there’s only so much a child can do to replace adults. The important distinction is that for Weiss and Ruby someone did put them above everyone else, and that’s Winter and Yang. Consciously or by instinct, the elder sisters wanted to provide the younger sisters the safety they felt robbed off, and to give them the opportunity to grow and live as children like they couldn’t. In turn, the younger siblings put them on a pedestal and idolized them.

It is heavily implied Winter acted as a buffer between Jacques and Weiss, and was her confidant. Note how fluently they communicate their true thoughts to each other by hiding them in sneers and insults, yet drop all pretense in private and speak clearly what’s on their mind then. Winter worries about Weiss’s health and well-being, and isn’t interested in her studies and ranking; this is a deliberate choice to belie what Jacques instilled in Weiss, to put her happiness before her image. Winter mentored Weiss’s semblance training and is her harshest critic. She was Weiss’s main motivator to rebel against Jacques, and advised her to cut ties with the Schnee name like herself; she warns her of the futility in trying to reason with their father on his own terms. Winter encouraged Weiss to follow in her footsteps as a huntress, and also in her decision to figure herself out independently.

Yang, in her own words, was the one to hold everything together following Summer’s disappearance. She protected Ruby from feeling loveless and alone as she herself felt, by putting herself there where Taiyang couldn’t be. She gave her attention, she read to her and hugged her. She played with her and entertained her, and went along with every joke and scheme Ruby wanted to make. She enables Ruby to let loose and have fun, to take pride in her accomplishments and to stand up for herself. It’s important for Yang to show her support and pride in Ruby as frequently as she does, most likely to compensate the times Tai couldn’t. Among her family, Ruby goes to Yang when she is worried and afraid. Yang truly was Ruby’s best friend growing up.

Note how both Winter and Yang instilled values in Weiss and Ruby that are better than their own, and encouraged them to be better than themselves. They want them to actively search for happiness, although they themselves seem incapable of following the same advise - Winter went to a thankless job with little reward, Yang is afraid of forming friendships that are not just surface deep. The younger, prodigal sisters are assertive and have set themselves clear goals and ambitions in contrast to their elder sisters, who both prefer to follow and dedicate themselves to others.

[gif by deshieart]

The idyllic picture I described here is not complete. Winter and Yang may have significantly improved Weiss and Ruby’s childhood, but in their limited power as children - or perhaps their simple human limitations - there are blind spots in their relationships. There are issues the younger sisters have separate from the ones the elders tried to shield them from.

Winter still grew up in Atlas and under Jacques, and she is not immune from the dangerous influence of both. Early on, Weiss seemed to believe in similar ideas, and part of that behavior is due to Winter’s influence. Although Winter’s escape from home is understandable, it must’ve left some Weiss bitter being left behind. Winter forwent the Schnee name, where Weiss wants to change it for the better, and part of me can’t help but think Weiss’s conviction was affected by Winter leaving home.

As she grew up, Yang had two main caretakers - Taiyang and Qrow - who both experience difficulties addressing and sharing their problems openly. Yang, in turn, learnt not to share her own issues and put on a reassuring facade. She compartmentalizes, keeping her issues separate from what she shared with Ruby. But children are more perceptive than we might think, and Ruby must have picked up on Yang’s behavior and took it in. Ruby has her own version of keeping to herself - she ignores her problems and represses, avoiding the issue altogether with seemingly no healthy outlet. [x]

The narrative of the show tends to juxtapose these relationships against each other, cutting from one to the other and comparing them side by side, parallel or anti-parallel. The most obvious contrast is in their warmth: in Volume 3, Winter and Weiss are polite and reserved even privately, having lunch at an outdoor cafe. Yang and Ruby are loud and brash, playing video games and ribbing each other with their uncle. Winter pushes Weiss to confront Jacques directly, Yang seems content to support Ruby’s initiative by following her.

In volumes 4 and 5, the narrative matches the sisters in opposites: it is Yang and Weiss that are bound home and want to leave, and Winter and Ruby fighting in Mistral. Yang and Weiss overcome their personal struggles, and view their sister as their salvation, but end up finding each other first by chance (incidentally, Yang “returns” to Raven at the same time Winter returns to Atlas back to Ironwood). Meanwhile, Winter and Ruby become aware of Salem and the larger war at play.

When they are united with their sisters, this trend continues as Yang initiates the hug with Ruby and stops her nervous blabbering, and Weiss hugs Winter to stop her alarmed frenzy. Yang and Weiss reassure Ruby and Winter of their well-being.

[gif by sirianhewigxiii]

Come Volume 7, Winter returns as a full-time character and we see how after their respective reunions, the sisters return to their preestablished roles. Winter and Yang support Weiss and Ruby in their decisions and actions, listening to their younger sisters as they did before. Now, however, the sisters are on a more even footing: Weiss is now free of Jacques like Winter, Yang acts more assertive like Ruby. As a result, the relationship is less one-sided. For example, though Winter is not as doubtful of Ironwood as Weiss, she listens to her input and divulges a secret to her, showing that despite having differing opinions they begin to see each other as equals. Yang goes along with Ruby’s plan to hide Salem’s immortality from Ironwood (and even takes it a step further when she reveals Amity to Robyn), but she’s not afraid to tell her she doesn’t feel comfortable with that decision. It’s a step up from what they had before.

In the finale of Volume 7 and the premiere of Volume 8, the bonds between sisters are challenged, and they separate from each other. Winter chooses her loyalty to Ironwood over her trust in Weiss, Yang chooses her conscience over her innate trust in Ruby. Mind, these situations are not completely the same: the split between Ruby and Yang is pragmatic and they still view themselves as united, the split between Weiss and Winter is ideological and they are on different sides of the conflict.

I’ll leave my speculation what will happen to the sisters in the latter half of Volume 8 for the last section.

II.V - Winter & Whitley

A brief aside about Whitley, would be to ask if what I said about Winter’s relationship with Weiss could also apply to Whitley. The answer is of course no, Whitley and Winter clearly have an entirely different relationship here. Frankly, pinpointing its exact nature more precisely is difficult, since the center of the Schnee narrative is Weiss and we have little interactions between the Schnees that don’t involve her. I cannot offer you a definite reason as to why the difference exists, but I have a few guesses.

I’ll assume what we see of Weiss and Whitley in volumes 4 and 7 is similar to what Winter and Whitley had, and take into account Weiss’s statement that Whitley never really liked Winter (or her). As Willow pointed out to Weiss, Whitley was left alone with Jacques, and began imitating him and emulating his hurtful behavior. Jacques took him under his wing, when Willow was at her worst, Winter away, and Weiss in the process of leaving. Deep down he understands he was being abused by Jacques, but with the cards stacked against him his damaging attitude becomes clearer - and particularly, the likely reasons he resents Winter and Weiss for.

[gif by chittychittyyangyang]

So how come Weiss and Whitley turned out so different, and how does Winter factor into this? For starters, I’ll point out again that Winter’s influence on the Schnee household is very limited, and that humans tend to make mistakes. For her to gloss over Whitley, or to presumably ignore him, could be due to several reasons. Perhaps connecting with someone 10 years your junior was just too difficult. Maybe Jacques intervened more often with Whitley, seeing as he was younger and impressionable.

It’s difficult to tell what exactly happened here between Whitley and Winter, and I don’t think specifying here is helpful. I’ll sum up by saying that however their relationship turned sour, I lean towards the reason being human error rather than malicious intent. Family situations tend to be complicated.

III. Yang & Blake vs. Winter & Penny

Here I want to talk about more subtle parallels between Yang’s journey throughout volumes 1-5 and Winter’s journey in volumes 7-8.5. The major comparison here would be between Yang and Blake’s relationship, and Winter and Penny’s relationship.

Before I begin, I’d like to stress that although Bumbleby is clearly romantic in nature, here I’m more interested in their development separate from the romantic aspects of it. As such, it’s not my intention here to argue in favor of romantic Winter/Penny, though I have nothing against it. I view it more as a platonic relationship with some familial undertones.

I explained in the first section how Yang and Winter keep people at arm’s length, so it’s natural to wonder about the exceptions to that rule, their relationships with Blake and Penny respectively. When they meet their new partners, Yang and Winter seem mostly set in their ways, with no real tangible goal beyond wanting to help others where they can. To them, Blake and Penny are a breath of fresh air, determined and purposeful, and they’re challenged by their perspective.

To me at least, how Yang and Blake interact during Beacon is quite similar to what we see of Winter and Penny’s relationship in volume 7. It starts off as a working relationship, but the continuous presence around each other has lead it into easy affection. It’s a give-and-take of differing personalities finding common ground, though here the more apt analogy would be Yang/Penny and Winter/Blake. They begin feeling safe with one another, opening up and sharing intimate details about themselves, and the other’s opinion and well-being matter to them. They even work well together as fighting partners.

[gif by chittychittyyangyang]

Yang tells Blake about Raven and her complicated family life, partially in an attempt to stop Blake from overworking herself. After Winter’s outburst at Jacques, she shares with Penny her vulnerability regarding her family, and tells her she can’t let her emotions take control of her. Neither Blake nor Penny accept their lessons at face value, and question those beliefs. Was Blake’s determination really like Yang’s quest to find Raven? Are Winter’s emotions truly a hindrance and Penny should follow suit? Still, their disagreements don’t stop them from caring about each other, as we see when Yang hugs Blake and Winter holds Penny’s hands.

Blake is a faunus rights activist who fights for what she believes in, and Yang admires her for it, and is also subtly inspired by her. Penny is dedicated to her role as the Protector of Mantle, and Winter is endeared by her devotion to the cause. In both cases however, this beautiful aspiration is soured by Adam and Ironwood, who use Blake and Penny’s noble efforts for their own gain.

Next both relationships experience a “falling out”. Yang fights to save Blake from Adam at the end of Volume 3, and sacrifices her right arm trying to protect Blake. At the end of Volume 7, Winter and Penny fight Cinder, and Winter sacrifices her body (and purpose as a Winter Maiden) for Penny. We have Yang and Winter, defeated and critically injured, left behind by Blake and Penny, both running away from their controlling abusers Adam and Ironwood.

There’s an interesting tidbit here about their natures as characters, as both “falling outs” hammer on a shared flaw between the couples. Yang and Blake are both afraid of putting their trust in someone else, one is afraid of being deemed unsatisfactory and the other afraid of hurting by association. Winter and Penny are both self-sacrificial, the former thinks her opinion and thoughts are worthless, the latter wishes to put all the weight of the world on her shoulders. The finales and aftermaths of volumes 3 and 7 are a cruel display of these flaws.

Yang and Winter are both injured enough to require a replacement for parts of their bodies, a robotic arm and an exoskeleton. The supplier of both limbs is Ironwood, who projects himself onto both women, “rewarding” them for selfless acts of heroic sacrifice like he sees himself. He saw Yang’s fight the the tournament, criticized her harshly for it, then heard about her noble sacrifice and told her he wishes she’d return fighting soon. He groomed Winter to be his second, scolds her when she disobeys him, and after her injury emphasizes her importance to him. It seems to me that Ironwood attempted to make Yang indebted to himself like he managed with Winter before.

The process of recovery for both women is difficult, and in Winter’s case rushed. On a purely physical level it could be argued they have recovered from their injuries, as both eventually return to the field after their recovery. If we consider their emotional state, things become trickier; though Yang was at first offered a fairly lengthy recovery period on her own terms, in Volume 4 her main motivation to recover is not for herself but for other’s sake - appeasing Tai and worrying for Ruby. Similarly, Winter’s recovery is overshadowed by Ironwood’s orders and the current situation’s time constraints.

This behavior on Yang and Winter’s part is not so strange to me, when I consider Taiyang and Ironwood’s roles in their lives. Because of Taiyang’s issues when she was a child, Yang learnt to put others before herself, particularly when it concerns Ruby and Tai. Yang’s recovery becomes less about herself and more about others after Tai subtly insults her intelligence and her “moping”. I view this as falling back into old habits, Yang learning that if Tai is put through too much then she’s taken too much space (she puts on her arm after overhearing Tai saying he has to stay to take care of her), and must compensate by putting Ruby (and in a sense Tai) first.

[gif by sister-ilia]

After accepting Winter to the army, Ironwood acts as some form of surrogate father to her. Winter looks up to him because he offered her safety from Jacques, and looks for his approval constantly. Look at her reactions when she’s scolded by Ironwood for misbehavior. Ironwood offered her asylum in exchange for subservience. When Winter is in her hospital, he first reminds her how reassuring it is to have her on his side, and then proceeds to kill a councilman for disagreeing with him. It’s an indirect threat against Winter, one carefully cultivated throughout their working relationship in the military.

Regardless, the physical recovery is only part of a larger process Yang and Winter have to go through. Volume 5 made it quite apparent Yang suffers from PTSD and emotional trauma from her fight with Adam, and Blake leaving triggered Yang’s fear of abandonment. She faces Raven for the first time, and is haunted by Blake’s mere mention. She struggles against the past - the parent she wanted to put hope unto - and the future - the hope she has in Blake.

Winter faces similar struggles in the first half of Volume 8 parallel to Yang in Volume 5. She is traumatized by the fight against Cinder, most likely with PTSD as well, and Penny leaving as she did has shook her inner beliefs. For the first time, we see her visibly struggling to adhere to Ironwood’s orders with ease, and she’s deeply concerned for Penny’s well-being. She is torn between her loyalty - to Ironwood, the parent she put her trust in - and her moral compass - to Penny, who challenged her to follow her feelings.

Coincidentally, RWBY chose to portray Yang and Winter’s stress with a shaking fist, where they were injured. Having said that, Winter displays many similar physical ticks like that before her injury, but the deliberate focus on the same tick as Yang is too great for me to ignore.

Both of these struggles are also marked by a decisive choice to take action and be assertive, which is remarkable where these two are concerned. Yang forms the plan to find Ruby via Raven and refuses her offer to join the tribe. Winter forgoes Ironwood’s orders to bring team JYR to custody, and instead relies on them to save Oscar from the Whale.

Yang’s recovery does not in Volume 5 either (nor does it end in Volume 6 for that matter), but at the moment Winter’s parallel arc is unfinished. I’ll speculate about this a bit more in the next section.

IV. Rough Speculation

So when I say rough speculation, I mean it in two different ways. One, is that I’m mostly focused on characters arcs, and they’ll be fairly abstract. Two, is that I’m fairly sure most of these parallels are accidental and not intended, so I don’t hold much hope any of these will come true. Instead, think of these as “if I wanted to make these parallels intentional, how would the story proceed next?”

One parallel I do think is intentional is between the sisters. It is the first time we observe both relationships put into the test, and the outcome of this split will obviously change the sister’s dynamic with each other. How will these two relationships compare to one another by the end of the volume, I do not know, the current arc isn’t finished yet. I can only comment on how I want and hope these relationships will proceed. Currently, I see the physical split between the sisters as an opportunity to reevaluate themselves independently of the other’s influence. And, I think this change will be positive for all of them.

Though it’s obvious Yang’s choice deeply affects Ruby and will contribute to her expected breaking point, I think Ruby will come out stronger at the end of it. Yang’s choice to take charge herself is obviously very important to her growth as a person. Given how RWBY framed their split around a mutual understanding both sisters’ viewpoints are correct, I don’t think their reconciliation will be one-sided - they will come to understand where the other is coming from, and their relationship - and team RWBY - will grow from it.

Despite the difference in circumstances, I think Winter and Weiss will echo this development as well. Jacques may be mostly neutralized, but the Schnee family won’t be miraculously healed because of it. At the moment, Weiss is facing that reality now with Whitley and Willow, and I think her arc this volume will lead her to begin healing her family in earnest. Winter will almost definitely leave Ironwood, and for the first time in her life she’ll be free from someone seeking to control her, free to follow her conscience. It will also give her an opportunity to reconcile with her family without Jacques’s influence, which ties in quite nicely with Weiss’s arc - Weiss pulling her family together, Winter letting herself be pulled to them. Weiss and Winter’s bond will come out stronger, and the Schnees will finally have a chance to heal.

[gif by wnterschnee]

You might’ve noticed I put a lot of emphasis on when and where Winter and Yang make choices for themselves, because I think these moments are vital for them to grow as a person. Starting with Volume 5, there’s a been a slow progression where Yang asserts herself more often, which culminates in her decision in Volume 8 to break away from Ruby with her own objective. Like her, Winter in Volume 7 quite often disagrees with Ironwood’s plans, yet follows them anyway because of her loyalty to him. This loyalty is no longer enough to sway her in Volume 8 when she starts disobeying his orders.

Again, I’m comparing two unfinished arcs, but I’m excited to see where this development will lead us. Having Winter and Yang parallel each other like so would really hammer home how similar these two can be beneath the surface. If at some point it involves more direct contact to drive each other, that’d just be icing on the cake. For now I’ll enjoy that their only personal interaction with each other is Yang telling Winter “[she’s] still just following orders?”, followed by a glare - hopefully this preludes a future conversation between them talking about this exact point.

I’ve already touched upon predictions related to the first two parts of this analysis, what about the third? Here we can go a bit wilder, because we already know what happens to Yang (and Blake) in Volumes 5 and 6. How would I mirror Volumes 5 and 6 with Winter (and Penny)? When I think of Yang’s recovery arc, two major scenes at the ends of Volume 5 and 6 come to mind.

The first is her confrontation with Raven in the Maiden Vault, an incredibly powerful scene where Yang properly confronts Raven and calls out her cowardice. One of the reasons it works so well is how difficult it is to realize Raven’s place in Yang’s life is not clear cut; Yang hates her for abandoning her and shirking her responsibilities as a parent, yet there is still love between them. Raven’s reaction itself is both an admission of care when she concedes to Yang, and also another failure on her part by leaving her off with the responsibility, running away again. In simpler terms, Yang reluctantly confronts someone she cares for deeply, yet isn’t on her side.

Who would be the Raven to Winter in a parallel scenario? One possibility is Ironwood, who holds a similar position to Winter as Raven did to Yang. Ironwood is an almost paternal figure to Winter, but he’s making wrong and dangerous choices, and Winter seems to realize it as well. He used her and exploited her, but also offered her safety and stability. Even after Winter defects, I don’t think Winter will want to fight him physically (if she’s capable), and would probably attempt to sway him with her words. Admittedly I don’t foresee Winter’s attempt at non-aggression to be successful like Yang, so it might come to blows anyway.

A second possibility it to put Penny in Raven’s place. Given that Penny’s also Maiden like Raven, and she’s on her way to the Atlas Vault, there’s some potential thematic parallels. Given their established relationship, I think neither would want to confront each other physically, and would rather talk instead. It’s possible here Winter and Penny will switch metaphorical roles, and it might be Penny that gives Winter the final push towards the heroes sides. It’s also possible, given Penny’s hacked plot line, that Winter will instead have to sway Penny back from whatever the hacking did to her. The last interpretation would also fit in quite well with Winter and Penny’s arc focusing on personal choice and feelings winning over.

The other incredibly important scene in Yang’s arc is the Bumbleby vs. Adam fight. Blake and Yang finally liberate themselves from Adam, Blake’s abuser and Yang’s personal enemy, and they defeat him by working together. Yang is freed of her personal demons, Blake of her literal demons, and in the aftermath of his death they mend their relationship. Their trust in each other won over strength.

[gif by sister-ilia]

If a parallel scene to the Nevermore fight would exist for Winter and Penny, I can think of three characters that could fulfill Adam’s role. Cinder already set her eyes on Penny and is fairly likely to fight her again, and in their previous clash injured Winter. It matches fairly well plot-wise, but I don’t think Cinder is enough of a personal villain to either Penny or Winter to match the same gravitas as Adam. For similar reasons, Watts, Penny’s “puppeteer”, can also fill Adam’s proverbial shoes in this imagined scenario, but I fear he’s too inconsequential overall.

Or, it could be Ironwood in Adam’s place. Ironwood seeks to control Penny (like Adam did with Blake), and acts as Winter’s personal demon (like Adam was to Yang) by continuously conditioning her to repress herself. Like the Nevermore fight, there’s a motive for them to avoid killing him, but given Ironwood’s current state of mind he might push them to that edge in self defense. Even if Ironwood’s defeat would not involve death, it would be a liberate Penny and Winter, freeing them from his control once and for all - but a Pyrrhic victory all the same. I’ll admit, this might be my favorite way to defeat Ironwood.

Coda

I’ll emphasize one last thought regarding these character arcs - it is my strong belief character progressions, and healing arcs in particular, do not have a clear and set timeline. What I outlined here are not endings, but steps in the way. RWBY seems to agree with my train of thought, and with Yang in particular we see this in her current arc: yes, she has progressed immensely from Volume 3, but the healing process does not simply end, even if it may seem that way on the surface. I approach Winter’s character in the same manner; I have high hopes of her character and as a person, but change is an ongoing process, and I’ll treat it as such.

Thanks for reading my analysis! I know it’s a bit long and messy, I’ve had to skim through some ideas that could be expanded upon, so send an ask my way if you’d like me to elaborate on anything.

Other interesting reads:

Kali-tmblr’s essay regarding siblings relationships.

Tumblingxelian’s review of Yang’s Volume 4 arc.

Petracore’s review of Winter’s Volume 7 arc.

Theseerasures’s comparison of Winter and Yang.

Schneefamilyincorrectquotes talking about Schneeblings.

#Winter Schnee #Yang Xiao Long #RWBY Analysis #long post #RWBY8 #RWBY #my posts #fishy.analysis

176 notes · View notes

osir-ethria · 3 years

Text

.... Debating on whether or not I should do something other than the Schneeblings...

Well here’s another thing about them anyway.

Whitley loves fashion and designing with a much more creative aspect to clothing. Jacques however found out and called it far to feminine and that he should be focusing business and other things (minus fighting).

Winter would always let Whitley choose the dress she would wear to business meeting with Jacques and tell him about the guests reactions and how many compliments she got because of his choice. She did this in the form of a letter that Klein would hand Whitley because if she was seen anywhere near Whitley he would be reprimanded by their father. She’d first give him a list on what the event was about, how she was to be represented, and if Jacques was there to enjoy himself a little or purely just business.

This helped Whitley with his look when he went out on formal events and got to choose. (This is me saying please change his outfit for once. Maybe inspired by Weiss?)

Even though Winter never directly told Weiss but Whitley was the one who designed her outfits minus the Volume 7 one... I’d have to say Weiss looks good but like, the pounds of hair in that braid is unnecessary. She has a lot of hair but why make it not proportional to the rest of the head. Other than that she actually picked up a few things from Whitley just by studying what she’s been wearing.

After the half of the group that got to Vacuo arrives at the main kingdom they need new gear. The Atlas gear is going to give them a heat stroke. They are trying to decide what to do and they see an obviously emotionally unavailable Winter write a few things down, hand it to Whitley, and tells him to go all out.

Later she explains the whole fashion thing with them and tells them that if they’d trust him with their outfit designs to just list necessities, color schemes, any requirements that’ll help with how they fight, and what style of clothing they are comfortable or uncomfortable with. When Whitley receives these papers from the group he starts crying, they aren’t seeing it as weird and actually trust him with it. Remember, Jacques hated this side of Whitley.

Whitley works with Pietro to design the new gear and everyone loves it. Comfortable, looks good, and does its job. I also remember that the Schnee dust company doesn’t only have dust mines in Atlas even though it was the majority, there are some all over Remnent. (This is from the World of Remnent episode Rooster Teeth did about the Schnee Dust Company.) The Schnees however stay with the refugees instead of going somewhere else so they can help them. They also have enough money to help provide for the refugees like buying tents, getting food and water, and any other necessity. Whitley gets a good feeling from helping and not keeping it all to himself.

Whitley better ask Winter to train him or Winter forcefully teaches him because she can’t handle losing another sibling. This is just with a sword he hasn’t gotten his semblance yet.

He’s smarter than a lot think he should be, the only thing that’s stopping him from being a huntsman is how young he is, like I would prefer if he was around Oscar’s age, and he’s not of the physical or aura capability of a huntsman. You could argue Jaune was like that but Jaune was of the age to go to beacon, had a weapon, and was physically fit to the point he could play it off as maybe going to the school. The only thing he was lacking was skill which was remedied by Pyrrha.

Whitley hasn’t had any of that but I wouldn’t doubt that he’d be a good fit. I can imagine him trying to use his left hand but it doesn’t work out so he forces himself to switch and it works but he wanted to use his left hand for that. He’s not as nimble as Weiss but more so than Winter so he’s slowly forming into a mix. Best part would be he keeps his sarcastic attitude and teasing only being serious in serious situations.

I think all Schnees are brutally honest with everything but understand and feel bad when they hurt someone who hasn’t done anything bad to them or has gotten on their nerves. If they are misunderstood for what they say and they know it wouldn’t be easy to understand said topic they go soft and attempt to explain, Winter and Penny at the Schnee manor in Vol 7.

I also like to think that each of them are slightly gifted in the others area of art. Whitley is better with design, art, and visual concepts.

Weiss is better musical and hearing as well as being able to take quickly to anything she was forced to learn by Jacques or genuinely wanted to know. Weiss and Whitley also share common interest in design from a mathematical stand point because it gets their motors going which was derived from Jacques trying to control them and force how they think, what they do, and what’s going on.

Winter is more about art through movement. She taught Weiss how to dance and is probably the only person who could stand a chance against Yang with Martial Arts. With her being the most controlling of her emotions she could easily do acting which she was forced to do while in school before Atlas Academy.

Whitley learnt how to play the piano from Weiss with videos Klein recorded where Weiss explained how to play. This was an assignment by Jacques to prove she was practicing but Whitley caught them once and asked Klein if he could see the videos. Jacques thought he had the natural talent for the piano, nah he just practiced a lot with Weiss’s help.

Winter hasn’t listened to any of Weiss’ personal songs. By personal I mean the RWBY soundtracks. I head canon that those songs are Weiss describing their journey and how she believes their friends, enemies, and family feels.

I like the idea that Weiss’s songs were used as protest. Now Winter has heard a few she just never put two and two together that that was Weiss singing since she always had a soft pitched opera voice. Well not until she heard someone in the refugee camp blast This Life Is Mine which included the more opera segment. That broke Winter. The idea was on a head canon post but I forgot the name and I’ve liked to many posts to the point I doubt I’ll find it.

Whitley got two copies of Weiss’s songs, using a bit of money for himself and Winter there, and as a bonding activity between them and if they ever feel stressed listen to her music and voice. This is how Whitley realized that Jacques had been lying to him about his sisters just abandoning him and not caring for him at all that they left him, but rather Jacques pulled him away from Winter to ensure he wouldn’t end up like Weiss. This Life Is Mine hits close to Whitley as for Winter as much as she agrees with Whitley that it hits close she knows that Weiss’s song Path to Isolation hits more for her.

Weiss had managed to submit War, Until The End, and Fear to the people who published her songs before everything the evacuation using Pietro. Pietro questioned why and she just gave a quick summary, not explaining everything but just enough. Those publishers got though the portals and with the help of Whitley and the Schnee money got Weiss’s ‘final’ track out.

The songs are played everyday which was new for the Atlesians that survived compared to the survivors in Mantle. No one expected Weiss to be so defiant and see how abusive Jacques was to her and which they can assume the rest of the family. How they weren’t picture perfect.

......... I should stop now. Written to much again. I’ll most likely try to find the post with the idea that Weiss’s song were used as songs of retaliation in Mantle. If I do I’m going to reboot it so here me go, deep diving.

#Schnees #rwby whitley #whitley schnee #rwby winter #winter schnee #rwby weiss #weiss schnee #head canons #sad stuff #Whitley should become a hunter in the future change my mind #winter was so busy and absolutely detested Jacques #schneeblings #they are multi-talented and I don’t take criticism for that #rwby #post rwby vol 8 #rwby vol 7 #rwby vol 9 head canons #I’ve gotta find that one post

57 notes · View notes

hypo-critic-al · 3 years

Text

Korean Frankenstein musical is quite good!

(MY SUBJECTIVE REVIEW)

After two musical adaptations, which are Frankenstein: a new musical and Frankenstein metal opera, I have discovered, not a secret of life as Victor did, but another very nice adaptation of Frankenstein! It’s name is "프랑켄슈타인 뮤지컬" or simply "Frankenstein musical".

I was watching Frankenstein a new musical stuff on YouTube when I stumbled across a Korean Frankenstein video with English subtitles. Maybe I can give it a watch, I thought...

And oh dear, I wanted more!

I don’t understand a single word of Korean but thanks to a few subtitled songs and Google Translate on my side I got to understand some parts of a plot.

Before I explain the plot I have to say that this is a very interesting and fresh take on the book. If you want to know my thoughts on it and what it is about, then you can read further.

(SPOILERS)

(warning! This story talks about murder, abuse of all kind, suicide intention, incest marriage, and other topics that may be triggering and unpleasant for you. You are free to scroll past this post if you want to avoid reading about these. Thank you.)

(The photos used in this post are from various sources, productions, actors etc. They are used to illustrate and show how the musical looks like. I don’t profit from using them.)

THE SCRIPT: Overture plays and we see a man in a lab leaning over a body on a table. Voice of a man and woman try to stop the said man from doing anything further but then a lightning struck outside of a lab and a body on a table sits up.

The whole story begins here:

It’s 1815, Napoleonic Wars are coming to their end, we meet one Henry Dupré: soldier surgeon and body grafter. He values the life of the others, it’s so precious to him that he doesn’t heal only soldiers from his side, but also his enemies. For this, a crime of espionage, he is to be executed and shot.

However, at the last minute, a soldier from higher ranks stops this. It is no one else than Victor Frankenstein. Victor takes Henry to his lab where he presents him his research and a reason he saved Henry: to create a strong, perfect, possibly immortal human soldiers from dead bodies.

Henry is sceptical at first, he doesn’t want to play God, but later agrees and joins this experiment.

The war has ended, the lab is closed before they could finish their project, so both of them are coming to Victor’s hometown: Geneva. People are celebrating the end of the war at the castle of their Mayor Stephen, Victor’s uncle. People are dancing and chatting and soon they start to spread rumours about Victor. Victor’s older sister Ellen and her cousin who also is Victor’s fiancee Julia are trying to prove rumours wrong but it’s too late. Victor leaves the event and goes to Frankenstein’s mansion.

Meanwhile, Julia is sad at the fact that Victor is cold and ignores her, but she still has hope that he will love her like he did before the war.

Henry and Victor continue their experiment in the old Frankenstein’s mansion, but Henry sees that people of Geneva don’t like Victor and hate the name of Frankenstein, so he asks Victor’s sister Ellen about it.

She then tells him a story of their family:

When they were children there was an epidemic. Their mother got ill and their father, a doctor, was unable to cure this sickness. He was so desperate that he started to believe in alchemy and the medical practise of the Middle Ages. Their mother died and young Victor, full of grief and denial, dug up his mother’s body and secretly tried to bring her back to life. Superstitious people, seeing that Frankenstein’s father used strange medieval remedies and seeing the grave of his wife empty, start to think that Frankensteins are witches. They burned down their castle and while escaping, Victor’s father sacrifices his life to save Victor.

Ellen and Victor go to live with their uncle Stephen and their cousin Julia and since then Victor is obsessed with life-creating. Once, he tried his theories and reanimated dead Julia’s dog, who became savage and feral afterwards.

Uncle Stephen doesn’t like Victor and decides to send him to study abroad. He then became a soldier and we know the rest of the story.

Victor is unable to reanimate a body, it seems that the brain cannot withstand the electric current and he needs to find a fresh brain. While drinking at a bar with Henry, Victor’s butler Runge, who was helping them with their experiment, tells them, that he has promised money to a mortician if he provides them recently dead body. However, it seems that a money-blinded mortician killed a young boy whom Victor knew and now wants more money in exchange for the boy’s brain. Victor lost his temper, killed the man and escaped. Henry takes the blame and is soon to be executed.

Runge, Julia and Ellen know the truth about his experiment and Victor’s crime but they doesn’t want to lose him. He tries to tell the court that he is a killer, but Stephen denies it, saying Victor is insane and ill after the war, so the court dismisses his testimony and Henry is sentenced to die under a guillotine.

Victor asks Henry in jail why he sacrificed himself and Henry says that Victor must live to fulfil his dream and that he must finish his experiment in a memory of him.

After his death, Victor takes Henry’s head and uses it as a last part of the Creature whom he brings to life. Runge and Ellen are amazed to see the reanimated Creature but Victor is crazy, he believes that he resurrected Henry.

However, they see the Creature move around weirdly, trying to come closer to his creator. This freaks Runge out and he attacks him, thinking the Creature wants to strangle Victor. Monster tried to defend himself, bit the butler’s neck and Runge died.

Frustrated Victor, seeing that this isn’t his Henry but feral Creature, wants to shot him but the Creature escapes the lab.

Three years later, Victor and Julia are celebrating their wedding. He is still anxious and thinks about Creature. Mayor’s servants then rush to him, announce him that his uncle, Mayor Stephen, has disappeared.

Victor distances himself from guests and that’s when the Creature appears before him.

Monster, who read Victor’s diary, which was in coat which Creature have grabbed before his escape, blames Victor for Henry’s death, he argues that he didn’t want to be created, left alone and later almost killed. Then he tells his story to scared Victor:

The Creature was running from Victor and after some time he found a village. He couldn’t overcome his hunger and decided to eat a dog. Turns out that the dog was of Eva, the wealthy owner of a fighting field and she sends her arena warriors to capture the Creature.

(This is where Google Translator began to fail, so I had to deduce things. When there is something I couldn’t understand, I put a question mark after it.)

The Creature sees Catherine, a servant in said fighting field, being attacked by a bear(?). He kills it and Eva, seeing Creature’s amazing strength, doesn’t punish him, instead she enlists him to her fighting arena as one of the gladiators.

Creature’s whole purpose is to fight with other fighters. Eva and Jacques, Eva’s husband, are constantly punishing and verbally abusing him.

The only person that shows sympathy for Creature is Catherine, who is also abused by her masters, fighters and other people from the arena, to which she was sold at a young age. She cleanses his wounds and she dreams of escaping away, to the North Pole, where there are no people to abuse her. Creature is fascinated by her story and wants to run away, too.

One day Fernando, creditor of the arena, promises that he will free them out of debt if the Creature wins against his fighter. He then approaches Catherine, promising her freedom if she adds strange medicine to Creature’s water. She is blinded by a promised freedom and does so.

The Creature is defeated in a fight, but Fernando’s plan is revealed and Jacques announces that the next day Catherine will die in the arena.

Monster is left alone, miserable, angry, longing for love and thirsty for vengeance and revenge upon his creator, he sets the arena on fire and finds Victor in Geneva.

Creature here ends his story and announces that this is the beginning of his revenge and escapes. Victor learns soon after that his uncle was killed and the court blamed his sister Ellen for murder. He arrives too late, Ellen is already hanged.

He then takes her body with intention of reanimating it, his lab is however destroyed by a Creature. Victor pleads Creature to kill him, but the Creature laughs, telling him that revenge is not over yet.

Day, when Victor feels the Creature would come he gathers people with guns in front of his house to kill Monster as soon as he appears. Suddenly, they hear Julia’s scream inside the house. Victor knows who to blame, and cries, asking why the Creature killed her and not him. Creature, who is standing near Victor tells that if he wants to avenge his dearest ones, he can find him in the North Pole.

While running there, Creature is regretthing his sins and while looking back at his life he finds a young boy lost in the woods. He calms the crying boy by telling him a story of a man who fought against God by creating life. The boy is curious and says that the Monster in the story is the Creature telling him this tale. The creature is annoyed by further questions, pushes the child into the water and continues his path to the Arctic.

Victor, from the last strength, reaches the Creature and fights with him. Creature stabs Victor’s leg with a knife and Victor shoots the Creature. Creature then says that because of a leg injury Victor won’t leave the Arctic and by following him to the Arctic he basically just punished himself.

The Creature dies, saying that justice was done and calls his creator "my friend". Victor sees that he is the one responsible for his tragedy, he was successful in revenge but at the expense of losing everything, and calls his creation, the last thing that somehow cared for Victor Frankenstein, his friend. He then slowly dies with his Creature in his arms.

—————————

Whew! This took me longer than I wanted to. First my draft got deleted, then again...

This musical wasn‘t directly sticking to the source material, but it is referencing it pretty often. For example, character of Henry Dupré was inspired by Henry Clerval, Julia=Elizabeth, Ellen is falsely acussed of murder as Justine was, instead of burning down a cottage of DeLacys, Creature burns down a fighting field etc. And is Runge a parallel for an Igor? I think he is.

Victor and Creature stay pretty similar to the book. Victor’s actions are affected by his pride, he doesn’t care about morality, God, etc. His actions may come from love of those he lost (his mother, Henry...) but he is careless and revenge blinds him that he slowly destroys himself. He may fight against God, but he faills to take responsibility.

Also, how could he think he would revive Henry by stitching his head to a creature’s neck? That’s dumb! Victor, I know you want your boyfriend back, but that is awful.

The Creature wants to be loved but instead he is hated everywhere he goes. He reads Victor’s diary and is mad at him, he doesn’t see that although Victor tries to make strong corpse soldier but he doesn’t know the thought process behind it and a fact that Victor tried to revive Henry by making the Creature.

So the Creature shows him a simple revenge plan: Runge attempted to kill me – I killed him. You are resposible for Henry’s death – I kill your uncle. You are responsible for my creation – Ellen dies. You tried to kill me and abadoned me – I kill Julia. Now if you wanna take this further and destroy yourself even more, come to Arctic.

And Victor does. And monster uses the same logic later, too. They both thought of stopping this chase to Arctic stuff but they were blindly following their rage for one another which resulted in their death.

I can’t judge things further because I didn’t watched full show.

But the music is pretty much fantastic! Just epic. I don’t care very much for flaws If a musical has great music.

Also if you look at actors, singing, dancing, costumes... I feel like a lot of money went into this musical. And a lot of money have returned from tickets. I think I read somewhere that this is considered the best original Korean musical in Korea. Because other musicals that are this popular are Broadway musical productions.

This may be a clichè for someone but I truly enjoy smart double acting roles. Not the ones like: okay, we don’t have enough actors, let’s make this one play another role. No, not like that. I like those meaningful ones. Kinda what Hamilton did. Here it is too. You see, it is obvious that the actor playing Henry plays later the Creature. A person whom once Victor adored is now a person whom he hated the most. And actor of Victor plays role of Jacques in second act. Isn‘t this cool? A person who rejected him is now a person abusing him. Every named character plays another role similar to the one in first act. I think Eva is played by actress of Ellen, Ellen stands by Victor’s side and agrees with everything he says. That’s also Eve’s relationship with her husband Jacques, played by actor of Victor. Soft, loving Julia is Catherine here. Actor of Runge plays the role of Jacques’ servant. Etc., etc.

One thing I didn’t like much was a difficult story. I know that Korean audience may have different taste, but to me, a Western listener, it was a bit confusing plot. They added unnecessary stuff to it, changed some things and sometimes it’s really confusing. (Hey! That’s what Jekyll & Hyde did! They left only key things from the book and changed everything. And this musical is comparable to J&H then. It’s not Frankenstein: a new musical that is similar to J&H, it’s this! This is a Frankenstein adaptation that follows the story path of J&H. That’s interesting.)

And I didn‘t mind this, but couldn’t they left the names unchanged? Why couldn’t Victor’s fianceé have a name Elizabeth? And why you have Jacques and Eva? You could have one character, only Eva for example. Jacques is just here, slapping the Creature (the only reason for having them both is their double acting roles, which I understand). And there is Ernest erasure as always. And no Robert Walton, too! They cut this character. The more I look into it, the more I feel that this musical was made by someone who liked Jekyll & Hyde.

(END OF SPOILERS)

To sum up, this musical appears to me as a nice, original take on the original book. It has interesting parallels to the book, references it throughout this show, and takes inspiration from Frankenstein movies. It feels like a blow of fresh air.

The music is very likeable. If you like Wildhorn-ish kind of stuff like I do, then this is, I don’t know, it feels more complex and confident than what I am used to. Maybe you won’t like it, maybe it becomes your favourite musical, this is just my opinion.

And don’t get me started on singing, acting, costume design, sets, choreography... it’s beyond perfect and I think that the West musicals should take notes.

I have talked about some stuff a bit more in a spoiler section but I have to say it here too, this musical has a very interesting take on Victor/Henry relationship that later affects Victor’s actions and his relationship with the Creature. It’s very heartwarming and creepy at the same time.

I think my sole obsession for countless days (I haven’t listened to anything else than these since last March) that are Frankenstein: a new musical, and Jekyll & Hyde musical have a new opponent. New March, new me (It’s still just Frankenstein tho).

So, pros and cons:

PROS:

-good music

-good acting

-good singing

-referencing the source material

-nice take on Victor/Henry relationship

-I like reasonable double acting roles

-simply it’s good

CONS:

-name change of main characters

-no Robert and Ernest (I know, but not even Walton is here!)

-tiring and long story

-unnecessary/bland female characters

-foreign language

I rate this musical 8,25/10. I still haven‘t seen it whole, so I can’t really judge it objectively.

I assume there is no full recording and I can’t find a script either. If anyone has an English or Korean script/bootleg, please, let me know : )

Here is a recording of a few songs performed at a musical press conference, you can set an English subtitles if you want to know the words:

youtube

Here is a link to the full Korean album, not all songs were recorded on the album:

And here is an animatic that makes me cry ;-;:

youtube

I apologise for bad grammar, stupid reasoning and other things.

I hope you didn’t mind me sharing this musical with you, I like this show and I haven’t seen any people talk about it in Frankenstein (book/musical/etc.) fandom, so I made this post to share it with you.

Have a nice day : D

90 notes · View notes

avengerscompound · 3 years

Text

It’s You and Me - Chapter 10

It’s You and Me: A Hawkeye Fanfic

Series Masterlist PREVIOUS //

Buy me a ☕ Character Pairing: Clint Barton x F!Reader

Word Count: 1758

Rating: E

Warnings: Mentions of past abuse, some kinda sexual stuff (though it’s light and probably pg movie worthy), some of this is canon comic stuff - so you may have already read it.

Synopsis: You and Clint Barton go way back. Since you joined the circus as a child, he took it upon himself to keep you away from the people who really wanted to hurt you. For years the two of you danced a line between dark and light.

When he chooses light the two of you go your separate ways.

Fifteen years later he tracks you down. Those feelings the two of you shared never went away, but now he is not only an Avengers but a single father. Can the two of you make it work after all this time when your lives have gone in such different directions?

A series told in flashbacks and current day.

Chapter 10: Then

Clint ran through the circus looking for Eden. He’d been in town getting some things when he’d spotted the paper. The words ‘Art Dealer Murdered’ were splashed over the front page, with a photograph of the man Clint recognized from when he’d had the meeting with Tiboldt and a picture of some of the missing art. He knew it had to do with the circus. That someone from here had killed him when they’d tried to steal the art. After what you had said about Eden potentially being involved, he was terrified that someone was her.

“Anyone seen Eden?” He called as he ran through the carnies setting up the tents for the show tonight.

He spotted Bruto the Strong Man hammering in some of the larger poles and rushed over to him. “Bruto,” he said, slightly breathless. “You seen Eden around?”

Bruto thrust his thumb over his shoulder. “Check Tiboldt’s trailer.”

Clint nodded and ran towards the orange trailer that had the large banner advertising the circus on the side. “Eden,” he called. “Tiboldt - you guys in there?”

The door opened a crack and the thin weasley face peered around the corner. “What do you want, Barton?”

“Where’s Eden?” Clint asked.

Tiboldt narrowed his eyes. “What… do … you… want?”

Clint thrust the paper forward, right into the Ringmaster’s face so he could see the headline. “This is the guy you were talking to a few days ago!”

“Really?” Tiboldt said, playing coy. “I talk to so many people when we do our shows…”

“He was the museum guy - we were gonna do some children’s charity gig for him?” Clint questioned.

Tiboldt chuckled drily and handed the paper back to Clint. “Apparently, we won’t be now.”

Clint scowled, taking it. “Where’s Eden?”

Tiboldt pushed the door open so that Clint could see inside. Eden was sitting at the dressing table, naked except for a small towel wrapped around her waist. She turned, obviously startled that the Ringmaster would give her away. “Clint!” She yelped. “I…”

Clint fumed. He wanted to yell. To fight Tiboldt. To do something to express how angry and hurt he was right now. Tiboldt was the boss though and he was stuck. He’d been sleeping with Eden and they’d gone and murdered someone together and Clint was just some dumb sucker.

He spun on his heel and stormed off.

He’d made it halfway down the big top before Eden came chasing after him, the towel only barely wrapped around her. “Clint! Wait!” She called. “It’s not what you think!”

“Yeah?” He snapped, tossing the paper into the air. “‘Cause I’m thinkin’ you’re with him when you said you were my girl -” he loosed an arrow at it and shot past Eden’s head, pinning the paper to the wall of the trailer she was standing next to, the arrowhead piercing the picture of the murder victim through the head. “- and you helped him commit murder!”

“You…” Eden stammered. “You really think I would murder someone?”

Clint faltered. He didn’t know what he believed. He loved Eden and had loved her for a while now. But seeing her naked in that trailer only days after you had warned him about what was going on, he wasn’t sure if he could trust her. “I - no… no, I don’t…”

She approached him running her hand up into the back of his head and leaning into him. “As for Tiboldt and me - please - I was posing for a new trailer poster.” She looked into his eyes and tilted her head. “No one touches me - you know that. No one but you.”

She opened her towel, and wrapped it around him, bringing her naked body to his right out in the open in front of everyone. Heat flushed Clint’s skin and every coherent thought left his head. He kissed Eden deeply and hungrily the only thing even remotely resembling a coherent thought was the deep animalistic hunger he felt for her.

That night as you and Clint got ready for the show, he’d all but forgotten the incident from earlier and the murder of the art dealer. You were fussing with the horses as he checked his equipment.

“Five minutes ‘til showtime!” Tiboldt called. Clint flexed his bowstring and the bow snapped. “Ah, nuts!” He cursed and looked around, while Tidbolt called out the run list. “Anyone got a soldering iron?”

You shook your head while the other performers ignored him. “Hurry, Clint,” you said. “We’re first.”

“I’ll be quick,” he agreed and ran out the back of the tent. Eden was coming in from outside. She was wearing a bikini that would match her flesh if it wasn’t covered from neck to toe in intricate tattoos. “Eden, baby, I need a soldering iron,” he said.

“Oh, I got one, Clint,” she teased.

“You do?” He said, completely missing the teasing in his desperation to fix the bow before curtains up.

“You wanna know where I’m keeping it?” She smirked

Realization dawned on him. Of course, the woman who was basically naked didn’t have a soldering iron on her. “Oh,” he said.

“Try one of the storage chests, you big dope - the purple one, I think,” she said.

He rushed down to where the storage chests were but instead of one, there were three purple chests, each identical to the other. “Aw, man…” he whined. “Eden… three of them are purple!”

“Two minutes!” Tiboldt called.

“C’mon…” Clint muttered, opening one of the trunks. Sitting on top of the chest was the painting from the paper. It had been Tiboldt, just like he’d thought. Which meant it was probably Eden too.

His heart sunk. He didn’t know what to do. It was one thing when it was just stealing - but murder? How could he stay with the Circus knowing they were doing that?

“Ladies and Gentleman -” Tiboldt called, his voice amplified over the big top. Clint cursed again and began digging for the soldering iron in the other trunks.

He’d well and truly missed his queue when he reached you. Eden was out on the floor working her contortionist routine. “Where have you been?” You asked. “You missed your queue.”

“I’m sorry!” He said and came over close to you. “I was fixing my bow and I found a painting… one of the missing ones. They killed that art guy.”

You frowned. “Shit.”

“Did you have anything to do with it?” He asked.

You held up your hands. “I swear I didn’t, Clint. I thought about it, but I knew if they had that over me, then they’d have control of me.”

“You think Eden did?” Clint muttered.

You looked around and pulled Clint behind the horses more. He tried to see what had got you spooked and noticed Tiboldt watching you both. “I don’t know. Maybe,” you whispered. “You should ask her that.”

Clint’s shoulders sagged. “I might get us a motel room. Maybe if she’s away from the circus she’ll tell me.”

You shrugged. “Maybe.”

“Hawkeye, Sugar. You already missed on queue, you better get this one,” Tiboldt snapped, appearing around the front of the horses.

“Yes, sir!” You said, getting on your horse.

Clint did the same and waited for his queue. You leaned over to him. “Clint, what are you gonna do if she did do it?”

Clint shrugged. “I dunno. I dunno if I can stay here. Would you come with me?”

“Where would we go?” You asked. “We ran away to the circus, what’s after that?”

“Welcome to the ring, the man who can’t miss, Hawkeye!” Tiboldt announced, interrupting Clint’s train of thought. He spurred his horse on through the curtains. Not that he was sure what he was going to do, but if he turned everyone in, there was no way that the answer could be this anymore.

You sat next to Clint by the payphone in the street. He’d done what he’d said. He’d taken Eden to a motel. They’d gotten dirty and then clean again, and while they showered he’d asked her about the murder. She denied the murder but not the theft and then got mad at him for not trusting her. Clint had gone to bed feeling sick to his stomach and the next morning he woke well before Eden, come back to the circus, and got you.

“You really gonna do this, Clint?” You asked.

He shrugged. “I dunno. They killed someone. That guy has a family. Friends. They deserve some kind of closure.”

You nodded. “The circus will be done. What will we do?”

“Go on the road together,” Clint suggested. “The act won’t be quite as good without the horses and the clowns, but we could do a pretty good routine. Maybe some solo work too.”

“Maybe if you do it anonymously they won’t know it was you,” you suggested.

“Eden will know,” he said. “So will Tiboldt. This is gonna burn us. I already got my leg busted because I threatened to turn them in once.”

“I guess… make the call, and we go back and … pack our things?” You said. “If we can get as much of our stuff as we can, we won’t need to start from scratch.”

“You’re really going to come with me?” Clint asked.

“Clint,” you said softly, lowering your eyes. “I know you don’t know exactly what happened to me before I joined the circus, but when I joined, and Jacques said I needed to take those pictures - he said that he wouldn’t touch me. That it’d just be some naked pictures and that’d pay for my upkeep. I didn’t like it, but … it was like levels, you know? When someone keeps breaking your bones, and then a different person says, come here I’ll bruise you, but I won’t break your bones, you go because compared to the broken bones, the bruising feels like heaven. And you… you said you’d protect me from anyone hurting me at all. And you did. You kept Jacques away from me and you gave me a way to protect myself. And you’ve never expected anything from me. I kept expecting that one day you’d be like ‘well look what I did, now you owe me so open up those pretty legs of yours’ but you didn’t. So yeah, Clint. I’ll go with you because it’s you and me. You’ve always got my back, it’s only fair I have yours too.”

Clint looked at you and smiled sadly. “You and me,” he said and patted your thigh. “Okay. I’m gonna do this.”

// NEXT

#clint barton #clint barton x reader #hawkeye #hawkeye fanfic #fanfic #fanfiction #reader insert #it's you and me

69 notes · View notes

stannussy · 2 years

Text

The last duel is SUCH GOOD MOVIE WTF

TW: R*pe allusion and yeah the movie has scenes of it so thread carefully.

Lord, it's so well researched as well as keeping things fresh from three perspectives but laced with the narratives the medieval times breed? (Like Jean's point of view seeing himself as the loving husband and dashing knight that fights to only protect his wife it feels fair tale-y, out of a book.) AND THEN you got Jacques which is the point of view of a forbidden love story where the no's at his sexual advances are to keep face but Margarite enjoyed it, it reads like Don Juan's tale (but anyone which is even mildly aware of women's societal status KNOWS even on this story still gross, not as guttural but still abhorrent) for Jacques is a lascivious woman that got what she wanted and then blame him for it bc she needed to keep status, especially when the baby was growing. AND THEN

We get Margarite, which is explicitly THE TRUE where there's no grand trope or narrative but the raw reality of begin a woman on medieval times, begin property, just a baby making machine altho she ordered the land's rental books, never taken consideration in consideration not in her own privacy and when she wants to be good to Jean, he's still brutish, not putting even a little bit of effort and sees her as beneath her altho on his POV he's vision he is presented as been nothing but loving to her and the outrage for the abuse she went through. Like even he knows that's bad but not enough brains to connect where he is also affecting her, never him affecting her. she has been nothing but good to him and even comparing her to his late wife when she herself wants a baby. It's no wonder it's so gut wrenching after her point of view starts she suddenly is proposed to a man, that came with tricks into her land and she's only heard in passing and very bad things too. Then he abuses her and it's horrible and she just gotta deal with the trauma by her own and suffer further more because of her husband's ego, not only demanding he himself lay with her afterwards but then out her at scrutiny and then basically gamble both of their life's without even mentioning anything to her, he took things out of Margarite's comfort because of his ego.

I'm glad the ending wasn't dragged out torture porn of Margarite's suffering I've got some critism of the r scene itself but the point of grace is that at the end there's a semblance of justice, (medieval times some cases got settled by duel, whoever wins it's by God's grace since he knew which one was right) also the fighting techniques??? ON POINT AS SO THE WEAPONS AND THE HELPING HANDS AND IT'S SO ACCURATE AND IT'S SO WELL RESEARCHED.

#the last duel #ITS SO COOL #still like said its so good #i got critisms of THE scene

2 notes · View notes

nexyra · 3 years

Note

James Ironwood, for character ask? 👀

Aaaa thank you so much for the ask ♡ More rambling incoming !! Sorry for the wait btw, I've been both pretty busy and tired ;;

If you hate James Ironwood and don't wanna hear one good thing about him tap out now please ღ

My fav ship(s) for the character

I am not a super big shipper when it comes to James, but there are still some I like more than others soo here goes :

I think Ironwitch is a pretty good one. It's not necessarily a ship I'd search content for but I think these two would work well together ! Glynda is stern and honest and a no-nonsense kind of woman. She has the strenght to stand up to James when he slips or gets too stubborn when faced with the high stakes. At the same time, we've been shown that she cares for him and she knows he's only trying to do what's best for people. She has faith in him but also the ability to stand at his side as an equal. She seems to be the more steadfast of Ozpin's circle : loyal, you know you can trust her, and she will not crumble. This is the kind of personnality that I think James both admire and feel safe with. And the other way around, I think James is a good match for Glynda too. On a day to day basis, he's serious enough to not annoy here, but he's also a softie in some aspects and that's a nice combination to smooth out Glynda's edges.

Ironqrow is a completely different dynamic. The "we're annoying each other" dynamic is not one I'm particularly interested in usually xD But these two certainly had strong & interesting moments so it's a pretty valid ship !! Despite how they might butt heads because of the difference in their upbringing they (prior to V8) clearly trusted each other with their life. Even if Qrow jokes about shooting himself if he had to be one of James' man, when everything goes to shit there is no doubt in his mind that James wasn't responsible. Similarly, while James talks of shooting Qrow for his misbehaviour, when push comes to shove and we meet a tired Ironwood, run ragged by the pressure he's under... the only thing he does is hug him and reiterates how glad he is to see him. So again, they clearly have a lot of faith and trust in the other, and that's solid ground for a relationship.

My least favorite ship(s) for the character

Same spiel as always, shipping kids and adults is a big no from me; so any ships between Ironwood and RWBYJNOR can qualify here. That said, among the less uncomfortable ones, here are those I don't really like

This one is again because I love their relationship but platonically only, I'm talking of Winter Soldier. The reading I like best is not that Ironwood is Winter's Jacques 2.0, nor that he groomed her; but that he was an important father figure in her life. Protective and caring, who tried to help her escape with what he knew. I don't see James recruiting Winter as a way to gain a strong ally. But rather that Winter wanted to detach herself from her family name, and make something worthwhile of herself all on her own. And that the military is what Ironwood knows and understand, so naturally it's a career he'd see as a good path. Just like Winter then proposed it to Weiss. I like to think they care about each other a LOT and they're their own tight family in between the lines, even if professionalism might throw a wrench into it. For short I love them together but not romantically please =)

I don't know if there's a ship name for this, but Salem x James Ironwood would be a big nope from me too... In general, let's just assume I ship Salem with nobody because abuse.

My fav & least fav platonic relationship(s) for the character

Fav platonic relationship would be (have been because we dont talk about V8?) with Winter. Fooor the reasons I've explained above I suppose x) I (again) love the trust they had in one another and the quiet support.

There was also his relationship with Oscar that I really liked during V7, although it has been soured a bit by the (valid) reading from some people that Ironwood sought out Ozpin a lot through Oscar, and given his identity issues it is not ground for a greatly healthy relationship. Their interactions were still very intersting though ♡ I consider Oscar to be the kid who went at trying to appease James' fear or make him reconsider his decisions the best way. There was true understanding and hope for a working relationship here. I do feel that Oscar put in more work than James however (emotionally) and I wish there had been pay-back instead of a gunshot.

For my least fav relationship ? Probably Robyn or Watts ? Robyn was always very antagonistic toward Ironwood since their priorities are so different. And I overall just don't really like her after V7 so there are very few relationships with her I'm interested in (the exception is her ship with Fiona I think it's cute). Meanwhile, Watts is just a petty asshole hell bent on ruining Ironwood because he didn't pick his project. I'm not very interested in hate relationships, and since theirs wasn't deeply explored anyway, it's even more the case here. Their fight was great though, one of my favorite RWBY fights !

My favorite thing about the character

Well this was completely proven wrong by V8 buuut as of V7 I liked that he was a deconstruction of the military general (dictator) trope. Sooo you can guess how i feel about V8 X) In general among RWBY, several of my fav are fav BECAUSE they look like one trope but also have key differences that from the get go make the character stray away from said trope. For example I'm not a fan of the princess tsundere archetype at all, but I loooved Weiss in V1 BECAUSE she was extra-willing to listen and change her mind, and you could very easily tell that it was her upbringing speaking more than herself in most occasions.

Similarly, I wasn't a big fan of Ironwood before V7. I didn't hate him you know and he wasn't lower than most characters in my Tier list but I also didn't particularly care. But you know what ? I've aaaalways had a really soft spot for the "angsty angry traumatized teen". And RWBY made the mistake of extending that soft spot to "tired adults trying their best" (only to repeatedly beat them up/make them villains after making me care about them but what can you do uh)

Soo in general, I loved that Ironwood was trying so hard. I loved that he was tired and in over his head but learning and listening and trying to do good and be better despite his fears. I liked that he told his entourage about Salem and was loyal. I liked that he cared about helping the people above his own image and the way people perceived him. I liked that you could tell this was a terrible situation all around, and his decisions WERE questionnable but we could SEE that he meant WELL and was genuinely trying so hard despite how scared and tired he was.

My biggest criticism for the character

Well this won't be a surprise but in general I just wished he had stayed a morally grey character we were allowed to feel for instead of a cartoon black villain. I didn't need James to be THE Hero or anything like this despite some accusations levelled at those who like him. Him becoming one of RWBY's antagonist is honestly fine by me ! It is interesting. But I'd have preferred they kept him ambiguous and trying in his own way. (And smart because V8 Ironwood was dumb af)

I can be a tad overprotective of his character since he's just... so despised, so I think that I have inadvertently distanced myself from any of his flaws... somehow like "people are already yelling all of them so I don't need to add to this shit show" you know ? skjfkd But I KNOW he has them and it would still have been good to develop his flaws, just... not like that

But yea I'd have liked it if V8 Ironwood DID diverge from RWBYJNORQ and became an antagonist but not an iredeemable villain. LIKE,, we redeemed Hazel and Emerald and IRONWOOD is where the writers draw the line by saying "nope this one is rotten" ?? What ?

When was their writing at the peak according to me (ex : best season)

V7 definitely ! Ironwood carried V7 so hard haha. His character was fleshed out and given nuance and made to struggle and evolve and I loved him in that volume.

A song I think fits them & why

Hunger • Monsters & Men Human • Rag'n'Bone Man Way down we go • Kaleo Beekeeper • Keaton Henson Thistle and weeds • Mumford and Sons Castle of Glass • Linkin Park It's all so incredibly loud • Glass Animals

A headcanon to make up about them

His metal parts impact his metabolism so Ironwood is terrible at holding his alcohool and very little manages to knock him out. He's a workaholic. His low tolerence for alcohool is a great tool whn friends need to put him to sleep.

His joints crack and hurt in the cold, his metal parts as well and they are an hassle in the sand. James like to keep his room temperature warmer than the average atlasian because of this, otherwise he has to spend 30 min every morning simply unwiding muscles to move around efficiently.

He's not a good singer but has a nice low voice for telling stories. If he had kids, he'd probably avoid lullabies but compensate with bedtimes stories.

What I would change about them if I was making a re-write

As always, I'm kind of reflecting along the way as I write this, and one thing I'm thinking right now is... Doesn't it take away from the atlas arc message ITSELF to just pile up so many "standard bad guy" stuff on Ironwood ? Like, I wanna ask... why do we hate him ? Is he an antagonist because he lets fear get the best of him ? Because he's a classist who doesn't care about Mantle like some fans argue ? Because he's too stubborn and wants to be THE hero ? Because he doesn't listen to others ? Because he abandonned Mantle ? Because he kills peopke left and right ? Because he wanted to bomb a city ? I think you might see where I'm going with this : his status as villain is kind of messy. V8 just kept piling-up flaws and villainous actions onto Ironwood with no concern for whether this was a lenght he would go to (using the certainty that he would go to any lenghts to enact his plans), ,or whether these were one of the initial flaws/failings that led to his "fall" as an antagonist. What lesson is Ironwood supposed to learn ? Personally the very first time I yelled at my screen "No ! Why would the writers choose that ?" is when Ironwood shot Oscar. When answering criticism against medias, many people tend to look at it only through the lense of "well it makes sense in universe" or as if there were no other ways for the story to devolve. But at the end of the way, everything in a story is a choice from the writer even if it is influenced by the characters' personnalities. If I took the scene where Ironwood shoots Oscar, someone might tell me "he's crippled by his PTSD, he COULD do this." Maybe, that's a reading I can somewhat understand at least. But the writers have the power to NOT put his character in such a position. When I saw the wreck that was V7 finale, I ranted to my bestfriend about it and at no point did i say "why did Ironwood do that", I said "why did the writers make him shoot Oscar, the only point narratively would be to make irredeemable" Aaaand that's what they went for and I obviously didn't care for it. So if I had to rewrite it; I would have kept Ironwood's "mistakes" more focused. If he's wrong because he wants to abandon Mantle, because he's (understandably) scared and doesn't want to take risks; then stay focused on that. It's what makes RWBY leave, and out of all his V8 actions that's really the only thing RWBY needed to tell the whole world he wasn't an ally anymore apparently. - Don't make him shoot Oscar point blank, instead Oscar can simply fall because he flinches away from Ironwood's outburst; and a distraught/guilty Ironwood can decide that he doesn't have the time or capacity to help because of the tense situation. (Killing and not saving someone don't hold the same moral weight at all). - Don't make him kill people left and right or bomb cities, maintain the flaw of Ironwood struggling with his PTSD and his fear and not being able to take risks. - Don't paint him as a black villain, and eventually write V8 in such a way that RWBYJNORQ show taking risks might lead to a bigger victory, which was the volume's theme anyway. For example, following Oscar's destruction of the whale, a growth can occur that would bring back together the two anti-Salem factions : Oscar's risk put Atlas out of harm's way, which leads to Ironwood seeing that maybe there WAS a way to save Mantle as well as Atlas despite Salem's presence and he might have jumped the gun too quickly because of his fears. I'm not sure, I haven't thought about this extensively honestly but I hope you see what I mean. I think it would have been more focused & more in-character to focus Ironwood's failings on his fear; and the fact that he cares for the people and the greater good sometimes at the cost of the individuals. The idea that by sacrificing individuals too much you forget the people you're fighting for in the first place, could have been interesting to dig deeper into. Keep to the idea that Ironwood is somewhat disensitized to the individuals suffering for the sake of the greater good, instead of making him just

callous & uncaring.

My guess for their MBTI/Enneagram

I think pre-V8 Ironwood was an unconventionnal ENFJ. Aka, the type of character no one would type ENFJ because they go by stereotypes and Fe stereotypes are just enneagram 2 everywhere (aka nice, kind, helpful) whereas Ironwood has an enneagram tritype very common among xxTJs so that's what he looks/behaves like, but the way he thinks (what's best for the people, ethical values derived from an Atlasian upbringing) align more with Fe cognitively I think I'm going with ENFJ 6w5 1w2 3w4

Starting from V8 though, Ironwood veered clearly into ENTJ territory (types aren't supposed to change but I wouldn't say RWBY is the most consistent media when it comes to characters' personnalities)

One aspect that I think would be nice to delve deeper into ?

I understand why they didn't care to, but it'd have been interesting to get a few backstory hints for Ironwood. How did he lose half his body ? How did Oz recruit him ? Or some pieces about his upbringing ?

#rwby #james ironwood #james ironwood canoncrit #rwby thoughts #rwby rewrite #rwde #ask me stuff #enneagram #mbti #v7 spoilers #v8 spoilers #pro james ironwood

18 notes · View notes

silvokrent · 3 years

Text

RWBY Character Analysis: Pietro and Penny Polendina

Up until now I’ve been keeping quiet about my opinions on the newest volume, in no small part because my personal life has been one absurd setback after another, and I haven’t had the energy to engage in fandom meta. If you do want to know what my current opinion of RWBY is, go over to @itsclydebitches blog, search through her #rwby-recaps tag, and read every single one. At this point, her metas are basically an itemized list of all my grievances with the show. I highly recommend you check ’em out.

Or, if you don’t feel like reading several hours’ worth of recaps, then go find a sheet of paper, give yourself a papercut, and then squeeze a lemon into it. That should give you an accurate impression of my feelings.

In truth, I have a lot to say about the show, particularly how I think CRWBY has mishandled the plot, characters, tone, and intended message of their series. And while I enjoy dissecting RWBY with what amounts to mad scientist levels of glee, I think plenty of other folks have already discussed V7′s and V8′s various issues in greater depth and with far more eloquence. Any contribution I could theoretically make at this point would be somewhat redundant.

That being said, I’d like to talk about something that’s been bothering me for a while, which (to my knowledge) no one else in the fandom has brought up. (And feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.)

Today’s topic of concern is Pietro Polendina, and his relationship with Penny.

And because I’m absolutely certain this post is going to be controversial and summon anonymous armchair critics to fill my inbox with sweary claptrap, I may as well just come out and say it:

Pietro Polendina, as he’s currently portrayed in the show, is an inherently abusive parental figure.

Let me take a second to clarify that I don’t think it was RWBY’s intention to portray Pietro that way. Much like other aspects of the show, a lot of nuance is often lost when discussing the difference between intention versus implementation, or telling versus showing. It’s what happens when a writer tries to characterize a person one way, but in execution portrays them in an entirely different light. Compounding this problem is what feels like a series of rather myopic writing decisions that started as early as Volume 2, concerning Penny’s sense of agency, and how the canon would bear out the implications of an autonomous being grappling with her identity. It’s infuriating that the show has spent seven seasons staunchly refusing to ask any sort of ethical questions surrounding her existence, only to then—with minimal setup—give us Pietro’s “heartfelt” emotional breakdown when he has to choose between “saving” Penny or “sacrificing” her for the greater good.

Yeah, no thanks.

If we want to talk about why this moment read as hollow and insincere, we need to first make sure everyone’s on the same page.

Spoilers for V8.E5 - “Amity.” Let’s not waste any time.

In light of the newest episode and its—shall we say—questionable implications, I figured now was the best time to bring it up while the thoughts were still fresh in my mind. (Because nothing generates momentum quite like frothing-at-the-mouth rage.)

The first time we’re told anything about Pietro, it comes from an exchange between Penny and Ruby. From V2.E2 - “A Minor Hiccup.”

Penny: I've never been to another kingdom before. My father asked me not to venture out too far, but... You have to understand, my father loves me very much. He just worries a lot.

Ruby: Believe me, I know the feeling. But why not let us know you were okay?

Penny: I…was asked not to talk to you. Or Weiss. Or Blake. Or Yang. Anybody, really.

Ruby: Was your dad that upset?

Penny: No, it wasn’t my father.

The scene immediately diverts our attention to a public unveiling of the AK-200. A hologram of James Ironwood is presenting this newest model of Atlesian Knight to a crowd of enthusiastic spectators, along with the Atlesian Paladin, a piloted mech. During the demonstration, James informs his audience that Atlas’ military created them with the intent of removing people from the battlefield and mitigating casualties (presumably against Grimm).

Penny is quickly spotted by several soldiers, and flees. Ruby follows, and in the process the two are nearly hit by a truck. Penny’s display of strength draws a crowd and prompts her to retreat into an alley, where Ruby learns that Penny isn’t “a real girl.”

This scene continues in the next episode, “Painting the Town…”

Penny: Most girls are born, but I was made. I’m the world’s first synthetic person capable of generating an Aura. [Averts her gaze.] I’m not real…

After Ruby assures her that no, you don’t have to be organic in order to have personhood, Penny proceeds to hug her with slightly more force than necessary.

Ruby: [Muffled noise of pain.] I can see why your father would want to protect such a delicate flower!

Penny: [Releases Ruby.] Oh, he’s very sweet! My father’s the one that built me! I’m sure you would love him.

Ruby: Wow. He built you all by himself?

Penny: Well, almost! He had some help from Mr. Ironwood.

Ruby: The general? Wait, is that why those soldiers were after you?

Penny: They like to protect me, too!

Ruby: They don't think you can protect yourself?

Penny: They're not sure if I'm ready yet. One day, it will be my job to save the world, but I still have a lot left to learn. That's why my father let me come to the Vytal Festival. I want to see what it's like in the rest of the world, and test myself in the Tournament.

Their conversation is interrupted by the sound of the approaching soldiers from earlier. Despite Ruby’s protests, Penny proceeds to yeet her into the nearby dumpster, all while reassuring her that it’s to keep Ruby out of trouble, not her. When the soldiers arrive, they ask her if she’s okay, then proceed to lightly scold her for causing a scene. Penny’s told that her father “isn’t going to be happy about this,” and is then politely asked (not ordered; asked) to let them escort her back.

Let’s take a second to break down these events.

When these two episodes first aired, the wording and visuals (“No, it wasn’t my father,” followed by the cutaway to James unveiling the automatons) implied that James was the one forbidding her from interacting with other people. It’s supposed to make you think that James is being restrictive and harsh, while Pietro is meant as a foil—the sweet, but cautious father figure. But here’s the thing: both of these depictions are inaccurate, and frankly, Penny’s the one at fault here. Penny blew her cover within minutes of interacting with Ruby—a scenario that Penny was responsible for because she was sneaking off without permission. Penny is a classified, top-secret military project, as made clear by the fact that she begs Ruby to not say anything to anyone. Penny is in full acknowledgement that her existence, if made public, could cause massive issues for her (something that she’s clearly experienced before, if her line, “You’re taking this extraordinarily well,” is anything to go by).

But here’s the thing—keeping Penny on a short leash wasn’t a unilateral decision made by James. That was Pietro’s choice as well. “My father asked me not to venture out too far,” “Your father isn’t going to be happy about this”—as much as this scene is desperately trying to put the onus on James for Penny’s truant behavior, Pietro canonically shares that blame. And Penny (to some extent) is in recognition of the fact that she did something wrong.

Back in Volumes 1 – 3, before the series butchered James’ characterization, these moments were meant as pretty clever examples of foreshadowing and subverting the controlling-military-general trope. This scene is meant to illustrate that yes, Penny is craving social interaction outside of military personnel as a consequence of being hidden, but that hiding her is also a necessity. It’s a complicated situation with no easy answer, but it’s also something of a necessary evil (as Penny’s close call with the truck and her disclosing that intel to Ruby are anything to go by).

Let’s skip ahead to Volume 7, shortly after Watts tampered with the drone footage and framed her for several deaths. In V7.E7 - “Worst Case Scenario,” a newscaster informs us that people in Atlas and Mantle want Penny to be deactivated, despite James’ insistence that the footage was doctored and Penny didn’t go on a killing spree. The public’s unfavorable opinion of Penny—a sentiment that Jacques of all people embodies when he brings it up in V7.E8—reinforces V2’s assessment of why keeping her secret was necessary. Not only is her existence controversial because Aura research is still taboo, but people are afraid that a mechanical person with military-grade hardware could be hacked and weaponized against them. (Something which Volume 8 actually validates when James has Watts take control of her in the most recent episode.)

But I digress.

We’re taken to Pietro’s lab, where Penny is hooked up to some sort of recharge/docking station. Ruby, Weiss, and Maria look on in concern while the machine is uploading the visual data from her systems. There’s one part of their conversation I want to focus on in particular:

Pietro: When the general first challenged us to find the next breakthrough in defense technology, most of my colleagues pursued more obvious choices. I was one of the few who believed in looking inward for inspiration.

Ruby: You wanted a protector with a soul.

Pietro: I did. And when General Ironwood saw her, he did too. Much to my surprise, the Penny Project was chosen over all the other proposals.

Allow me to break down their conversation so we can fully appreciate what he’s actually saying.

The Penny Project was picked as the candidate for the next breakthrough in defense technology.

Pietro wanted a protector with a SOUL.

In RWBY, Aura and souls are one of the defining characteristics of personhood. Personhood is central to Penny’s identity and internal conflict (particularly when we consider that she’s based on Pinocchio). That’s why Penny accepts Ruby’s reassurances that she’s a real person. That’s why she wants to have emotional connections with others.

What makes that revelation disturbing is when you realize that Pietro knowingly created a child soldier.

Look, there’s no getting around this. Pietro fully admits that he wanted to create a person—a human being—a fucking child—as a "defense technology” to throw at the Grimm (and by extension, Salem). Everything, from the language he uses, to the mere fact that he entered Penny in the Vytal Tournament as a proving ground where she could “test [her]self,” tells us that he either didn’t consider or didn’t care about the implications behind his proposal.

When you break it all down, this is what we end up with:

“Hey, I have an idea: Why don’t we make a person, cram as many weapons as we can fit into that person, and then inform her every day for the rest of her life that she was built for the sole purpose of fighting monsters, just so we don’t have to risk the lives of others. Let’s then take away anything remotely resembling autonomy, minimize her interactions with people, and basically indoctrinate her into thinking that this is something she wants for herself. Oh, and in case she starts to raise objections, remind her that I donated part of my soul to her. If we make her feel guilty about this generous sacrifice I made so she could have the privilege of existing, she won’t question our motives. Next, let’s give her a taste of freedom by having her fight in a gladiatorial blood sport so that we can prove our child soldier is an effective killer. And then, after she’s brutally murdered on international television, we can rebuild her and assign her to protecting an entire city that’s inherently prejudiced against her, all while I brood in my lab about how sad I am.”

Holy fuck. Watts might be a morally bankrupt asshole, but at least his proposal didn’t hinge on manufacturing state-of-the-art living weapons. They should have just gone with his idea.

(Which, hilariously enough, they did. Watts is the inventor of the Paladins—Paladins which, I’ll remind you, were invented so the army could remove people from the battlefield. You know, people. Kind of like what Penny is.)

Do you see why this entire scene might have pissed me off? Even if the show didn’t intend for any of this to be the case, when you think critically about the circumstances there’s no denying the tacit implications.

To reiterate, V8.E5 is the episode where Pietro says, and I quote:

“I don’t care about the big picture! I care about my daughter! I lost you before. Are you asking me to go through that again? No. I want the chance to watch you live your life.”

Oh, yeah? And what life is that? The one where she’s supposed to kill Grimm and literally nothing else? You do realize that she died specifically because you made her for the purpose of fighting, right?

No one, literally no one, was holding a gun to Pietro’s head and telling him that he had to build a living weapon. That was his idea. He chose to do that.

Remember when Cinder said, “I don’t serve anyone! And you wouldn’t either, if you weren’t built that way.” She…basically has a point. Penny has never been given the option to explore the world in a capacity where she wasn’t charged with defending it by her father. We know she doesn’t have many friends, courtesy of Ironwood dissuading her against it in V7. But I’m left with the troubling realization that the show (and the fandom), in their crusade to vilify James, are ignoring the fact that Pietro is also complicit in this behavior by virtue of being her creator. If we condemn the man that prevents Penny from having relationships, then what will we do to the man who forced her into that existence in the first place?

Being her “father” has given him a free pass to overlook the ethics of having a child who was created with a pre-planned purpose. How the hell did the show intend for Pietro to reconcile “I want you to live your life” with “I created you so you’d spend your life defending the world”? It viscerally reminds me of the sort of narcissistic parents who have kids because they want to pass on the family name, or continue their bloodline, or have live-in caregivers when they get older, only on a larger and much more horrific scale. And that’s fucked up.

Now, I’m not saying I’m against having a conflict like this in the show. In fact, I’d love to have a character who has to grapple with her own humanity while questioning the environment she grew up in. Penny is a character who is extremely fascinating because of all the potential she represents—a young woman who through a chance encounter befriends a group of strangers, and over time, is exposed to freedoms and friendships she was previously denied. Slowly, she begins to unlearn the mindset she was indoctrinated with, and starts to petition for agency and autonomy. Pietro is forced to confront the fact that what he did was traumatic and cruel, and that his love for her doesn’t erase the harm he unintentionally subjected her to, nor does it change the fact that he knowingly burdened a person with a responsibility she never consented to. There’s a wealth of character growth and narrative payoff buried here, but like most things in RWBY, it was either underdeveloped or not thought through all the way.

The wholesome father-daughter relationship the show wants Pietro and Penny to have is fundamentally contradicted by the nature of her existence, and the fact that no one (besides the villains) calls attention to it. I’d love for them to have that sort of dynamic, but the show had to do more to earn it. Instead, it’ll forever be another item on RWBY’s ever-growing list of disappointments—

Because Pietro’s remorse is more artificial than Penny could ever hope to be.

#rwby #rwby volume 8 #rwby spoilers #rwby thought dump #my posts #i speak #rwby meta #pietro polendina #penny polendina #james ironwood #arthur watts #ruby rose #rwby worldbuilding #rwde

53 notes · View notes

kitkatopinions · 3 years

Note

The baby boy himself, Whitley!

(for the ask meme)

Whitley is so my baby, I love my child so much. I’m realizing I say ‘I’m really excited for this one’ for like every character I get for this ask game, but it’s because I’m having so much fun! These take a bit to write, but they are honestly so interesting to me, so as an fyi, if anyone does have any character they want to ask my about, but thinks they might be too late, or I might be uninterested, I’m still totally interested! It just might take me a bit to answer. :)

My top three ships for the character

Whitley/Oscar is my top ship for this in canon currently. It works best if Ozpin could somehow be separated from Oscar (which is theoretically possible I guess,) but yeah. Farm boy vs rich boy, they look cute together, their personalities could vibe, and they’re both snarky, but at heart caring and compassionate. Whitley/Mercury. I mentioned this in my Mercury ask, but I was writing a fic with @why-i-hate-rwby-now where Whitley and Mercury were thrown together and had to work together to escape their abusers, and I just kind of started shipping them while writing it. O.O Also Whitley/Penny is cute as heck and I could totally see her grounding him and also making him loosen up, while Penny thinks he’s funny and interesting.

My three least favorite ships for the character

Whitley/Blake. I don’t understand this ship, Blake just feels like more of an adult atm compared to Whitley - a literal child. (Yes, I realize I ship Whit with Merc, but A. I thought Merc was sixteen while I was writing that fanfiction and he acts kind of on the young side, while Blake has been acting ‘as an adult’ and being treated ‘as an adult’ for two seasons at least while directly talking to Whitley, and has always been more of a mature character for her age anyway.) But on top of that, Blake seems to treat Whitley like an in the way child and is kinda judgey to him, while Whitley barely seems to notice her. Whitley/Henry Marigold just feels bad. And Whitley/Yang. Again, Yang has been written as a nineteen year old demanding to be treated as an adult (though I wanna say she’s less mature than Blake) but also Yang is a hotheaded character and has been acting pushy lately, and that’s fine as a character flaw, but I feel like it just puts me off her for Whitley especially.

My biggest criticism for the character

He’s treated like he’s not a victim??? Like, his abuse and neglect and even his struggles are just... Not really gone into or acknowledged very much, Weiss acts like he has to prove himself before she can show him the slightest bit of sympathy or affection when she’s his big sister, his relationship with Jacques is glossed over and he isn’t given closure there, Willow’s neglect isn’t really acknowledged seriously, Winter seeming totally disinterested in him doesn’t feel like it even matters, Weiss is treated as blameless in her and Whitley’s problems. And the writing kind of frames Whitley as having gotten a redemption, when the worst things he did was be a bit of an asshole while in an abusive situation as like a fourteen-fifteen year old with no aura or glyphs or fighting ability. Emerald and Whitley’s volume 8 arcs should not be comparable! Emerald is a full on murderer and was still willingly working with Cinder to attack people as a nineteen year old woman, and yet she and Whitley are treated very similarly by the narrative (helping one person and then that ‘making up for’ their ‘past mistakes’ and then them just being on the good side and carrying the team’s actions until the pathways arrive and they both go to Vacuo. To be clear, I think this framing was too much for Whitley since he never even needed a redemption at all imo, and not enough for Emerald, the literal murderer of Penny who was just recently willingly helping Cinder try and murder Penny once again.) Whitley should’ve been treated as the child he is, he should’ve been treated as the victim he is.

My favorite thing about the character

His potential dynamics, but specifically with Weiss. He and Weiss both had almost the exact same upbringing, only Weiss actually had more support, but guys... The way the two of them coped had similarities, but were also very different. Weiss hid behind anger and sternness, Whitley hid behind peppiness and smiles. Weiss copied Winter, Whitley copied Jacques. Weiss was always afraid of people putting on acts around her, Whitley was constantly putting on acts as a means of survival. Each of them are plagued by jealousy, pettiness, judgmental behavior, and they both have good qualities that are similar, but they both are too prejudice against each other to see those good qualities and need to learn to understand where the other is coming from. Weiss is a fighter, but a follower, while Whitley seems to have a bit of a ‘fawn’ tendency, but plans and enacts schemes under the table (even if it doesn’t have to be, like with Nora! Whitley’s instincts were to just figure out how to help Nora and then go off and do it alone without telling any of the obviously antsy people with guns what he was doing - after he was spying on them lol.) I just love the possibilities that exist with two characters that are so similar, but so fundamentally different. Also I’d love to see him resentful of Winter and snarky and passive aggressive with her, and Winter not really getting the problem, and Weiss having to mediate between them. Idk, there are so many possibilities of amazing interactions and connections Whitley could have with the others, and he could be a really new, good viewpoint if he was allowed to flourish. And maybe became kind of a ‘guy in the chair’ more permanent part of the team. Like, I know we don’t need more character bloat, but let me dream!

A headcanon I have about them

Before Weiss lost her inheritance, Whitley was sort of tasked with learning everything but being head of the company, like he was learning the financial side of things, the technological side of things, ordering, inventory, scheduling, all about Dust and mine operations... And Whitley’s naturally academic and a fast learner, so he absorbed a lot of it. But yeah, I think Jacques was trying to train Whitley up to be a sort of always available PA of Weiss’s that could handle anything she didn’t want to do / was too busy to do, and that was something Whitley really resented too. His skillset was essentially being crafted around helping Weiss, but never learning how to actually manage the company itself and severely lacking in the social side of things, like he’d never be able to make a proper speech. Also, like pretty much everyone I think he plays piano and writes his own music compositions (which in my headcanons he subconsciously writes to include vocals only for him to then get bothered that even his music seems influenced by Weiss. XD) Also I know this is three headcanons, but if he had been trained to fight, he would’ve used duel pistols and would’ve eventually developed a ‘born out of trauma’ semblance.

What I would change about them if I was making a re-write

I’d just allow his status as a victim to be recognized and for him to have the sympathy I feel his character deserves. I’d have him and Weiss both framed as having contributed to their bad relationship, but Weiss - as the sister four to five years older than him - would be the one who makes the first moves towards repairing it, proving she has changed enough to put aside her pettiness and be there for the brother she does truly love. I’d also get Willow away from him, or at least let Whitley be angry and distant and not have their relationship fixed over the course of an in-universe day. This is why I say there should’ve been another Atlas season, which I think is what I’d do when it boils down to it. With every plot point coming fast and then being pushed on the back burner for the next plot point, there’s no time to focus on any of it or to give the character’s sufficient growth from it. So then things like Willow having her hand glued to Whitley’s shoulder feels very ingenuine, because their ‘growth’ was so rushed. So yeah, I’d really just add an extra season and let Weiss recognize that Whitley is also an abuse victim, make her be the one to start making steps to be there for him, and let things like his relationship with his mother come slower and not be an easy fix. Also I’d have Winter acknowledge that she has a brother more regularly and have her actually care about him, even if she hasn’t shown it well at all.

What I I think of their character allusion and what (if anything) I would change about it

Whitley has no assigned character allusion and his name doesn’t offer very many hints, since it literally just means white meadow/field snow, but it’s easy enough to assume that like Weiss and Jacques - Snow White and Jack Frost - Whitley’s character allusion has something to do with the cold. I agree with the general opinion that he’s connected to ‘the Snow Queen,’ and is likely meant to be Kai, a once kind hearted boy who gets a piece of a magic mirror in his eye that only lets him see the bad in people and gets kidnapped by the snow queen. His best friend Gerda goes on a quest to save him - encountering a land of eternal summer and a talking crow amongst other things - and temporarily forgets him due to an enchantment, but then finds him almost frozen over and saves him by crying on him and through the power of her love that literally makes people and nature bend to her will, Gerda rescues Kai and dislodges the mirror piece from his eye so that he can be cheerful again. Pretty in tune with how the writers wrote things. I don’t mind this, but if Whitley is meant to be Kai and Weiss is meant to be his Gerda, there were two missed opportunities here that could’ve been great. One, Gerda is reminded of her love for Kai whenever she sees red roses, and Ruby and Whitley have a few similar mannerisms and kind of similar coping through their ‘cheery exterior’s’ even f Ruby’s lost all her sass and Whitley’s never had her spazzy, dorky, rough around the edges traits. I think it would’ve been cute and make for a more interesting dynamic if Weiss had mentioned to Ruby in volumes 1-3 that Ruby reminds her of her brother, and if it had made Weiss both harder on Ruby (since she and Whitley are estranged and he does drive her crazy a lot lol) but it also made Ruby all the more endearing to her and is one of the reasons they could be friends fairly fast despite Weiss’s early animosity (since she loves her brother and the traits he shares with Ruby compliment hers.) The next missed opportunity I can think of is that everyone thinks Kai is dead in the Snow Queen for a bit, but Gerda doesn’t believe it and goes looking for him instead. You could easily fit this into a narrative where everyone else has given up Whitley as a lost cause, but Weiss won’t believe that and is determined to help and to get close to Whitley again, which is what I think I’d want to go with. But also, a Whitley death fake out? That could be very good and very emotional. And it’d be easy omg. Weiss could think the Hound has killed him sometime during the fight (even if just for a moment,) but also if Whitley had been the first one to fall in the void instead of going through to Vacuo O.O

Idk if we’ll ever get his character allusion confirmed, but if it isn’t someone from the Snow Queen, I feel like the whole fandom will say “What?!” at the exact same time. XD

10 notes · View notes