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mxtxfanatic · 1 month

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Book of the Week: The Villain has Something to Say

Author: Mo Chen Huan (莫晨欢)

Genre: cultivation, rebirth, transmigration, danmei

Rating: E

My Synopsis: If you’ve ever thought to yourself “man, I wish wwx really had killed all those annoying cultivators at Nightless City,” then boy do I have a book for you! A mix between 2ha’s Mo Ran and mdzs’s Wei Wuxian, main character Luo Jianqing has double the trauma and double the hate as the heavens’ literal least favorite child: the villain! Watch as he defies fate by being reborn, immediately scheming to kill the transmigrator protagonist (the heavens’ actual favorite child), and trying to uncover what went so wrong in his first life as to cause his shizun and secret crush, Xuan Lingzi, to sign off on his death.

My Actual Review: Ok, so usually I absolutely hate when I read reviews that compare random danmei novels to mxtx works as a selling point, but Luo Jianqing really does give Wei Wuxian vibes in how charismatic he is, his personality, and his behavior around Xuan Lingzi, once they get together. Before that, though, he gives a lot of Mo Ran 1.0 as he tries to deal with the hurt of betrayal in the face of his shizun who he thinks hates him but also would obviously not remember said betrayal since it, for all intents and purposes, never happened. Despite all this, though, Luo Jianqing still feels like a unique character, and the story develops into a unique plot where the characters are trying, for the sake of the fate of the world, to rebel against the will of the heavens that has decided that only one (1) person deserves the entirety of all the good fortune in their entire reality, past and present.

I’m adding some content warnings for: grooming (maybe???), incest (maybe???), attempted sexual assault, and some slight dubcon between the main couple due to an aphrodisiac that doesn’t go all the way. However—and I say this knowing full well that it probably won’t make sense if you haven’t read the book—the first two content warnings for this book don’t really have… content? For instance, yes there is incest in the book, but it consists of a character constantly mentioning it to make the main pairing feel better about their “incestuous” shizun-disciple relationship. When you meet said incestuous characters, nothing about their interactions connote a romantic or sexual relationship. The incest reference could be removed and nothing about the story would change. Same about the grooming: for most of the story, we go into detail about how Luo Jianqing was raised by another disciple—which is vital information about his relationship with said disciple—the main pairing don’t get together until he’s 50, and before that, their relationship is completely chaste as far as we’ve seen. But then the author throws a random curveball near the end about the LI being in love with him “from before” he was 17. There is no character conversation about this. It is referenced nowhere else ever again. It could be wholly removed from the story and nothing would change. Take from that what you will.

Pretty sure the translation I read—though complete—was an mtl. Everything was still understandable, and I was able to get through it while still enjoying the plot and characters, but the constant grammar mistakes were annoying.

Translation: incomplete but currently updating

#human promotes #the villain has something to say #and he sure af says it!#love this book to bits #i simply choose to remove that ‘I’ve always loved him’ bit from my brain #it does not exist #wholly unnecessary addition #it’s like the author woke up one day and realized the dynamics weren’t ‘toxic BL’ enough for them #wild af #otherwise a solid book tho #love going back and rereading the massacre arc #and imaging this is nightless city smh

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jin-zixun · 10 days

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You know what? Kinda fucked up that WWX & co put so much fuss into not letting JGY get away, like even just to run away, but then with NHS it's just... Nothing. Crickets. One line telling him off for being bad and he just gets to go home. No one even cares about all the people NHS killed. I mean no one cares about all the people WWX killed either but he did die.

And then they still lock JGY in that coffin!!!

#and then they make nhs chief cultivator?#after throwing the entire jianghu into turmoil?#I think that's not actually text though so...#that's something I guess #nie unfriendly #at least in cql they have to kill jgy bc of the curse #and i guess su she causes the nightless city massacre which like ok #but they still let nhs go!#I mean fine but be consistent let jgy go too!

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symphonyofsilence · 5 months

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Ok, so I saw someone on Twitter (No, I'm not calling it X) applauding Wen Ning for explaining the golden core situation to Jiang Cheng since otherwise, JC would never stop making WWX's life hell for the rest of his life and saying that it's good that JC now knows about it thanks to Wen Ning and that "without Wei Wuxian, Jiang Cheng would be nothing." And aside from everything else in that statement (like okay, yes, thanks Wen Ning for finally telling JC the truth, but the way Wen Ning made that revelation, blaming JC and berating him for the information THEY intentionally withheld from him, and the surgery they did on him without his consent and with active deceiving since they knew he would never consent to it was...let's say, less than ideal. Like...WN, my sweetest boy, JC is the victim here. You're the cute little culprit. You don't get to yell angrily at him about this specific thing. And the way it implies that JC justifiably asking WWX for an explanation for the whole, you know... killing their BIL and then starting a massacre at Nightless City that accidentally resulted in their sister's death & the orphaning of their nephew is making WWX's life hell. And the way this tweet reduces Jiang Cheng to his golden core. without his golden core, Jiang Cheng was still the heir to the Yunmeng Jiang sect and a son of the Meishan Yu sect, and a resilient, brave, strong, foresighted, smart, & capable man and a charismatic, diplomatic and overall good leader, thank you. And no, don't start with "he was wilting away without his golden core". He was forcibly put into a coma and not given any time to handle the issue. Those few days practically were nothing to him. It was like he had JUST been rescued from the LP every time he woke up. He dealt with many shitstorms afterward and kept going. Having a breakdown after calamities is the normal thing to do, JC just gets the hysterical woman treatment by everyone.) I would like to say that, without Jiang Cheng, Wei Wuxian would have been dead. Not in episode 16/chapter 59 but in episode 14/chapter 55 in the cave. And NHS would have no reason to bring back WWX. You'd have a total of 14 episodes to watch and 55 chapters to read.

#the untamed #mdzs #cql #mo dao zu shi #chen qing ling #the grandmaster of demonic cultivation #wei wuxian #jiang cheng #yunmeng shuangjie #twin prides of yunmeng #twin heroes of yunmeng #wei ying #jiang wanyin #wen ning #my two cents

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lazycranberrydoodles · 10 months

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its prosecutor jiang wanyin!!!! oh fuck!!! / gifs + au rambling below the cut / follow for more mdzs x aa crossover stuff :3

all the gifs i made (poses traced off franziska):

hes so similar to franziska when you think about it. theyre both deeply insecure tsundere adoptive younger sibling of successful main characters. who carry whips. something something edgeworth choosing death and wwx actually dying also

his share code is HWFEFF if you wanna use him in a trial! you can't share backgrounds but heres the scenery from the donghua i used.

the easiest way to put custom stuff into objection.lol is to send it in discord and then use the link from opening it in your browser :)

a whole lot of AU stuff

the art im making is for if mdzs was an ace attorney game, playing from WWX's POV to solve various mysteries/cases over the course of the plot. so this scene would be from turnabout goddess, which would loosely cover the dafan mountain mystery.

cases include:

Turnabout Revenge (Mo Manor, quick introductory first case)

Turnabout Goddess (Dafan mountain, the good times flashback)

Turnabout Saber (the man-eating castle (omg hiii nhs))

The Blind Turnabout (Yi City arc)

Turnabout Deviation (the Koi Tower conference, Empathy on NMJ ala turnabout memories or beginnings. opening cutscene is his qi deviation)

The Blood-Soaked Turnabout (second Burial Mounds siege, flashbacks: Xuanwu, Sunshot, YLLZ, Nightless City massacre)

Turnabout Lotus Seeds (testimony about JGY, tree scene, golden core reveal, bathtub scene. opening cutscene could be JGS' death but that would make it canon rather than ambiguous)

Turnabout Confession (Guanyin temple)

the problem with splitting novel!mdzs into turnabouts is that flashbacks are a huge chunk of the book but they don't have mysteries/ cases to solve so they've gotta be lumped together with present day stuff. imo? many of the flashbacks would likely have to be abridged so they could be retold ala DL-6, SL-9, or the fourth grade incident, where characters talk about it over some pieces of art. this is really difficult when theres a metric ton of unspoken, complex, and signifcant history between every character lmao

there's not as much of a problem with the cql timeline but i have not finished it. so.

the opening cutscenes in ace attorney always show the murder and/or the murderer plotting. the first cutscene of the game would be MXY summoning WWX, muttering about getting revenge on his family (it would also be good for him to mention the yllz being dead because that's how the novel starts.) cut to WWX's POV as he wakes up covered in blood and the investigation segment begins.

for investigations of monsters (goddess, saber, etc) the cutscene would be a scene of some poor throwaway cultivator getting their shit wrecked.

it would be cool to make a breakdown for JGY but again I need to review that scene cause I don't know who I'd base him on. maybe Vasquez or Dahlia.

tell me your thoughts!! i'm working off of a mdzs summary/ skimming the novel because i don't remember it too well so if i get anything wrong please yell at me

Jin Ling's sprites & Nie Huaisang's sprites / masterpost

#PLEAAAASE send it to me if you do actually use my animations in a case🥺#here im adapting mdzs to aa gameplay rather than making a mdzs AU where they are lawyers #so jiang cheng is not a prosecutor in this hes just angry. and on the right side of the screen #that man has not graduated law school but then again no one in ace attorney has either #the names are based off of how ace attorney cases are either named after a distinctive item/location (bigtop bridge samurai etc)#or the main emotional/character type thing that happens (goodbyes reminiscence farewell)#the mdzs/aa au where the stories get blended (ie my tags on the nhs post) is very interesting but i would have to think about it very hard #and i dont want to . i would rather think about what the court record would look like (its full of severed limbs)#MDZS' EXPLORATIONS OF MORALITY MAKE ME CHEW ON ROCKS #urrgh i got carried away writing this post & wrote a couple hundred words comparing aa and mdzs' attitudes towards morality & public opinio #i could write an essay on this topic tbh.#can i call this an au? its the same story in the same universe just in a different format. hmm #mdzs #aa #art #mo dao zu shi #ace attorney #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #cql #the untamed #jiang cheng #jin ling #objection.lol #flashing image tw #pixel art #animation #my art #franziska von karma #i guess??#mdzs aa au

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pakhnokh · 1 year

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Wei Wuxian not knowing about the Lan Forehead Ribbon in "House of Gentians"

What LWJ says in this part is the HoG-verse assumption regarding WWX not knowing the meaning of the forehead ribbon. The idea/opinion is mine, it's how I see it based on my reading, so it might not be true! But this is the setting for HoG nonetheless.

Please take into consideration that this is me explaining the technical behind the scenes of my thought process to make these pages. I base my work on the novel and what is written there only. This is not me trying to explain the novel, but only what I, as a creator of an AU, thought that I can use for it to work.

So please, read till the end and if you have your own insights to share, do it!

So what is the explanation for Wei Wuxian not knowing the meaning of the ribbon and finding it out in canon? We have 2 versions.

Novel version (also Manhua and audio drama): WWX doesn’t know the meaning of the forehead ribbon, and the cause is unknown. He learns about it from the Lan juniors in his second life.

Donghua version: The source of information about the ribbon is the Lan rule book, and WWX copied that part wrong. Only in his second life, when he flipped through LWJ’s notes, he found the mistake and the correct meaning written by LWJ.

I believe donghua had its own reasons to bend the plot this way (especially since censorship laws would forbid presenting the meaning of the ribbon so straightforwardly fearing the possibility of hinting on wangxian relationship, so showing it as one second shot of a notebook with tons of text was a good choice on their part to both deal with the censorship and still maintain the main idea).

HoG-verse follows the novel, therefore it does not assume that WWX knew, or could know the meaning of the ribbon from the Lan rules. We don’t even know if it’s IN the Lan rules. According to the novel, WWX had to copy about four fifths of the entire Lan rule book, see here:

And we do know that WWX remembered quite a lot of the rules, as he says to Jin Ling in the temple:

(In fact WWX is shown as someone with good memory, especially of things he read. He excels in his class in CR showing that he knows a lot of stuff compared to his classmates, he remembered phrases he read once from Wen Mao’s book,and he remembers the Lan rules he copied many times).

I also don’t think he has “selective memory” cause the only times WWX was shown as forgetting something (as far as I recall) is the times he was feverish (Tulu Xuanwu cave, forgetting the song the LWJ played to him) and devastated/not caring about what’s going on around him (after the massacre on Nightless City, after his Shijie died, didn’t remember LWJ saving him and confessing to him).

In both cases, he eventually remembers. He remembers by himself the song LWJ played in the end of the novel, and about the events of Nightless City, when LXC tells him about what happened, he admits that his memory is clouded:

Meaning he eventually recalls the things he forgot. This is opposed to his reaction when he finds out about the Lan ribbon from the Lan juniors. It’s really something he hears for the first time. If WWX really copied this from the rule book and forgot, he should’ve remembered it at this point, but he’s too surprised, excited and embarrassed.

PLUS, if WWX had copied the meaning of the forehead ribbon from the Lan rule book, I don’t think he would forget it. He always thought the Lans to be strict, boring and uptight, so such a “juicy” piece of information would by no means go unnoticed by him. He’d use this info to tease the hell out of young LWJ hahaha…notice how he is surprised that the Lans could have a romantic side:

ANYWAYS this is just to show that the donghua version isn’t exactly possible in novel-verse.

In fact, in the novel, WWX does know only one meaning of the forehead ribbon, or maybe its purpose:

Maybe THIS was what he read in the Lan Rule book, but it’s still not as in the donghua, where he eventually came to know that the ribbon is supposed to be given to one’s fated other. If this knowledge about the ribbon being a tool for self-regulation was what he learned from the Lan book, then he is still left in the dark because he suspects there is another meaning to the ribbon and he just doesn’t know it:

According to these parts, it doesn’t seem that WWX knew and forgot, but that he really didn’t know the whole story behind the ribbon. Again, his reaction is very strong:

Again, this is different from him realizing that his memory was clouded after the events of Nightless City. This is REALLY something he NEVER knew. Anyways back to the conversation with the juniors, where WWX finds the truth, LSZ tells that:

Apparently this meaning of the ribbon is something that was passed down the generations. We don’t know if it was passed down by script or orally, or both, but it is something that has turned into a custom for the Lans.

And since it is a major custom in such a major sect such as theirs, I believe that it was known among other sects too.

There’s the opinion that this meaning of the forehead ribbon was known to Lans only, but I personally don’t think so, because the Lans themselves had no problem of telling about it to outsiders.

Recall the text I added before where JL says to WWX that he learned its meaning:

And also, LSZ and LJY have no problem revealing it to WWX, who they still think is Mo Xuanyu at this point.

Also, in his first life, back on Phoenix Mountain, it seems that LXC was willing to tell WWX the meaning:

(ok this is personally my head canon but I think that LWJ stopped LXC from revealing the meaning of the ribbon because he kinda lowkey wanted WWX to continue touching/asking to touch it, and was afraid that by learning what the ribbon means, WWX would feel ashamed and stop. I mean, if I was LWJ and my crush would constantly touch or ask to touch the object that is supposed to be given to my fated other I’D DEVELOP HOPES AND THINK WHAT IF THIS IS FATE??? And eventually I’d want it to become true. :’) )

Anyways back to the matter at hand, the Lans seem to have no problem telling others what’s the meaning of the ribbon is. I also don’t think that taking one’s ribbon off has an immediate sexual association. IT CAN HAVE, AND IT IS, but it’s not the main idea of it, in my opinion. It’s an object that’s supposed to be given only to the other’s beloved no matter in which situation. Meaning, that the moment they are together, or wed, the moment they know they love each other, then it gives the fated person the validity to touch the ribbon. If it had a solely sexual association then I guess this scene wouldn’t happen:

LWJ enters a wine shop without his forehead ribbon, and WWX plays with it. You can say that this is them acting SUPERRRR shamelessly, but I really believe there’s nothing so scandalizing about it. LWJ feels comfortable giving him the ribbon because they are finally together. WWX accepted his feelings, and therefore, LWJ can take it off and give it to him, and (correct me if I’m wrong) nowhere is it mentioned that it’s something that’s supposed to be done only at the couple’s private chambers.

(That’s also why I felt confident enough to have LWJ remove his ribbon and tie it on WWX in front of everyone at the inn, even though it DID have a strong meaning of letting go of self regulation, but in my eyes this was possible also because WWX is his beloved one, even though his feelings aren’t returned yet.)

ANYWAYS it seems that the Lans have no problem telling about the meaning to outsiders, because (in my eyes) there’s really nothing TOO sensitive about the fact that the meaning of the ribbon is that you can give it only to your loved one. I don’t think it’s THAT grave to be kept a secret from the world. On the contrary, in a world such as theirs, which is built on honor and respect to customs and traditions, I guess it’s important for others to know about such a custom, if only so that they’d know not to touch the ribbon accidentally or on purpose, to avoid offending the Lan member. (I don’t know if it’s true but in my eyes the Lans make this ceremony of giving their ribbon to their loved one on their wedding hehehe so yeah, I do imagine that if outsiders attended a Lan wedding, they’d see this custom happening).

And as I believe happened in all periods of our real world, that there were books and records written about history, cultures and traditions of peoples, the same exists in MDZS verse. I believe that there would exist books and records about the history and customs of different sects, and I think that it's not impossible that the meaning of the Lan forehead ribbon is also mentioned briefly somewhere in a book about the Lan Clan/Sect, or elsewhere.

And this finally brings me to this page of HoG that LWJ asks Wei Wuxian this question. WWX wants to know the meaning of the ribbon for the first time, after so many times of touching or wanting to touch it.

I think that younger LWJ didn’t even KNOW that WWX doesn’t know the meaning of the ribbon. Hell, in his eyes it could have been just another malicious prank done by this shameless boy who has no respect. Maybe only later did LWJ realize that WWX really didn’t know the meaning.

Hearing WWX’s question finally being asked, LWJ isn’t ready to answer him yet. He gave him the ribbon, yes, but it was something he did as a statement to his Shishu and others. As I mentioned before, he didn’t give WWX his ribbon during their wedding, nor after it. Because he knows that WWX doesn’t return his feelings and that this marriage isn’t really out of love.

That’s why he isn’t willing to answer his question right away. Instead, he just teases WWX by answering with a question of his own. And since WWX brought their past, with how he touched his ribbon and was rejected, LWJ also brings his perspective on the past - like, how could you do all that, and not even know what’s the meaning of what you do?

LWJ was a student with WWX in cloud recesses and heard how he answered all questions correctly and fast. WWX was outstanding compared to his classmates, showing that he did some reading. LOL as I was making this there was this picture of WWX’s room running on twitter, and I really loved that private library/study corner he had there with tons of books.

It was clear that WWX did read about the cultivation world, including random sects’ history, traditions etc. This is where I’m sure that such a book would exist about the Lan Sect too.

And LWJ asks him if he didn’t read anything about the Lans as he was reading about all other sects. What’s the answer to that? In HoG-verse, I guess WWX missed this information somehow. He really didn’t know the meaning of the ribbon from any source, and he still doesn’t know.

BUT HE’S GONNA FIND OUT I PROMISE HEHEHE SO….there you have it! This is HoG’s version of dealing with the forehead ribbon matter, where WWX stayed alive and dared raise the question before HGJ himself.

ANOTHER IMPORTANT NOTE

I need to clarify one more thing, guys. This isn't me stating an idea about the novel, this is me sharing my thought process in order to make my AU work. Let me explain:

Even if the info about the Lan ribbon is written in the rule book, I couldn't be sure about that because it isn't specified in a clear manner. The only certain source for that is the donghua, which, as I'm sure you can understand, I can't use since it made many changes to the original story. I couldn't be sure if the info about the ribbon in the Lan rule book is a canon possibility or a donghua way of dealing with the plot. So, I DO NOT OPPOSE the idea that the info is in the Lan rule book! But I just needed clear evidence to work with.

LWJ was not about to answer WWX's question in that instant. He wanted to ask him back - just how come he didn't know?

So imagine me having to think about the text (and believe me I put a lot of thinking hahaha), I couldn't make LWJ say "Didn't you copy it in the rules? How could you miss it?" because again, I couldn't be 100% sure it WAS in fact canon that it's written in the rules.

So I made the decision to make him require about WWX's studious character which does 2 things:

based on my assumption that some knowledge about the Lan ribbon was available to the public because it seems to me that the Lans themselves are surprised that WWX doesn't know. imagine that this is like others know not to offer alcohol to the Lans so to not offend them. I'm sure that some basic knowledge about the ribbon was available to the public too, again, from courtesy reasons.

LWJ asking WWX this is my way of making it show that his character DID notice and DOES acknowledge WWX's intelligence. their studying in Gusu days was a chaos of LWJ avoiding WWX or giving him the cold shoulder. >This< LWJ however takes that unfortunate past experience and by this slight sarcastic reply shows WWX that he in fact noticed and appreciated WWX's smart and studious character.

So once again I stress out the fact that this is me creating this idea (which can be untrue!) out of technical reasons to make not only the AU in general work, but also THIS SPECIFIC moment of LWJ answering WWX without telling him the meaning.

#house of gentians #mo dao zu shi #wei wuxian #lan wangji #wangxian #mdzs #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #Lan Sect #Lan Forehead ribbon #LONG POST

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veliseraptor · 2 months

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Top five spiciest untamed opinions!

man, I've been in my own little corner of fandom for long enough that I feel like I struggle a little to parse what is spicy of my opinions and what isn't, but here's a go at it

The Untamed is a show with complex, morally grey characters that's telling a slightly different but not inherently inferior story. Maybe I'm just a bit defensive about this, and I have with time come to appreciate a lot of things about the novel over the way they play out in the show, but The Untamed was the first version of the story that I fell in love with and I think at least some of the criticisms of it overstate the degree to which it morally simplifies the story. I think, whether because of requirements of censorship or other reasons, that the moral messiness of the story is subtler, I don't think it's absent, and while Jin Guangyao in particular falls victim to a pretty intense villain edit the narrative still has plenty of sympathy for him (even if the audience, all too often, does not). I think it's telling a slightly different story (as others have discussed), but I think it's a strong adaptation that still works with the underlying themes of the text.

However, that being said, The lessening of Wei Wuxian's culpability, as in the introduction of the second flautist, weakens his character. I feel like the character of Wei Wuxian as we see him in The Untamed still has the recognizable flaws of the character from the novel - I think the degree to which they're sometimes claimed to be toned down is overstated, which I think I've written some about before. He's still at least a little arrogant, causes problems, has a definite temper, and doesn't always respect other peoples' choices, among other things. But what The Untamed does do is remove some of his culpability, or at least temper it - both for Jin Zixuan's death and the massacre at Nightless City, which are two moments that contribute to a strong tragic arc in the first life, which makes for a more powerful (imo) arc in the second life. Removing, or at least lessening, Wei Wuxian's culpability for Jin Zixuan's death and Jiang Yanli's death makes him more a victim of circumstance than of his own human flaws, and at least for me, a character who is doomed by their own flaws is a far more compelling one than one who just happens to fall victim to outside forces. It makes him, I would argue, more passive and less of an active force, and I think the culpability for those two deaths - and the loss of control that causes it - makes for a more powerful narrative than that of a man who is victimized by someone else's actions.

Jin Guangyao was a good Chief Cultivator. I see people talk about him as though he was corrupt and evil and just plotting all the time, but the Bad Things™ he does mostly happen before his tenure as Chief Cultivator and, even taking those into account, have a limited impact on the world at large (with the exception of Nie Mingjue's death, but even that I would argue has more personal repercussions than broader political ones). As far as his responsibility for the cultivation world at large, we have no evidence prior to his downfall that he is negatively perceived by people, except for the fact of his birth/origins.

this is more MDZS-related than Untamed specific, but: MXTX deserves praise for writing "problematic" and messy queer sex, but it's just not hot. I don't have a whole lot to add on this one, but one of my least favorite parts of some corners of The Untamed fandom are people who are thoroughgoing MXTX antis who are quick to cry about the ~problematic~ aspects of Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian's sex life (which, honestly, I think are overstated a lot of the time, as is the weirdness of the sex scenes); however, in my opinion, the sex scenes as they stand just aren't very sexy, and I don't think that's intentional (as it arguably is in SVSSS). The sex scenes may be a shortcoming in the text, perhaps, but not the one certain people think it is.

this is again a stronger argument in the novel but I think it's present in the show as well: Jin Guangyao and Wei Wuxian are "there but for the grace of god" foils, but not in the sense of Jin Guangyao being "Wei Wuxian if he made bad moral choices" but in the sense of "who Wei Wuxian could've been if his circumstances were different." I've definitely written about this before and how much it drives me nuts the way people treat narrative foils in this story in general as Goofus and Gallant style duos, but this is a specific one. I think Jin Guangyao is an example of a story that runs alongside Wei Wuxian's, but ends in a different place, and I think the story isn't saying that he ends in that place because of something inherently worse about Jin Guangyao, but because of the way his circumstances happen to diverge from Wei Wuxian's in specific key ways. In some ways his ending is even a near beat-for-beat rewrite of Wei Wuxian's death, and Wei Wuxian receives the grace of a second life not because of any inherent merit, but actually because of his bad reputation. I think this goes for Xue Yang, too, actually.

I absolutely know I'm forgetting things and there are probably things back in my bitchy opinions tag that I could dig out, but here's at least a few that came to mind.

#conversating #maester of spreadsheets #lise has opinions #none of these feel so bitchy they need to go in the bitchy opinions tag but just in case i think i'll #lise's aggressively bitchy opinions about irrelevant and unimportant matters #lise memes #top five meme #the sad queer cultivators show

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wutheringskies · 8 months

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Jin Guangyao and Wei Wuxian aren't the same.

Jin Guangyao is one of the best written characters I've come across. A villian that doesnt look like one, doesnt act like one, is likeable, has strong motivations and a defined personality and extremely fun to read fanfics about. But what I dislike is the role that fanon gives him; specially his role in the story with allusions to Wei Wuxian, casting Jin Guangyao as someone similar to Wei Ying. The "poor children turned to forced villains" trope. This meta is about WHY that's NOT true.

The humiliation of his mother didn't give him the right to burn down an entire brothel. (personally, I found it satisfying but). The desire of acceptance from his father was a motivation for his crimes, not a factor that validates those crimes. Often, Jin Guangyao is treated as the counter part of Wei Wuxian. They both share only three similarities, however:

1. Both came from low backgrounds and struggled a lot in their childhoods. Meng Yao had food, but witnessed constant humiliation. Wei Ying had nothing, and then got tangled into the fucked up dynamics of the Jiangs.

2. Both were found to be much different than what people believed them to be. Wei Wuxian was supposed to be evil, hateful, a murderer who kills just to satisfy his blood thirst and need for power, a monster. Jin Guangyao was supposed to be the guy who worked hard and rose to the top, humble, kind, honest and pure of heart.

3. Both had their reputations destroyed from targeted rumor mill.

That is all.

Other than that, Jin Guangyao is NOT at all similar to Wei Wuxian by any measure. He had to do bad things because he desired power, and to gain, power in a corrupt world, you need to be even more corrupted. He killed all those who looked down upon him (not bodily harm him). He clenched his teeth and killed everyone who protested against him or questioned him. He silenced everybody before they could silence him. He isn't SOLELY responsible but he only played the cards that would bring HIM benefit, not the cards that were righteous, or good, or kind.

Wei Wuxian never desired power, was willing to give up a limb for the safety of his sect. When has he ever raised his sword or his flute if not in self defense? When has he ever attacked first and when has he ever killed an innocent? The only innocent he's most directly responsible for is Jin Zixuan and that was too, in an ambush, where he was asked to back down.

Not just that, everyone is always talking about the Nightless City massacre but never about the Burial Mounds Seige 2.0 where all of the cultivators WOULD have DIED, if not for Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian.

If your reasoning behind justifying Jin Guangyao's actions and murders is the "intention" then you come across as hypocritical if you condemn Wei Wuxian for the Nightless City massacre, ignoring everything that led to it. His prowess in cultivation, his natural genius, and his terrifying powers that he built himself even after losing a core are not crimes that he should be punished for, but he was. Because he's supposed to be just the son of a servant. How dare he be so powerful? So many attempts on his life were made and he survived them all. So many attempts to summon his soul, and they didn't work.

Is surviving a crime? For the Jiang Cheng stans who always thrust the survivor narrative onto JC, this is a question for them. Was Wei Wuxian wrong to have survived incidents in which he was being attacked? Should he have died for doing absolutely nothing wrong, other than having a different voice? For standing against a structure that always prioritizes one being above all, being the ultimate voice that cannot be questioned?

Here I'm going to quote some parts from the ExR translation of Villanous Friends:

He Su, “What was the irresistible trend? What was stirring up trouble? Jin GuangShan wanted to establish the position of chief cultivator only to imitate the QishanWen Sect in being the only ones at the top. Do you think all the world is ignorant? You frame me like this only because I spoke the truth!”

When you really succeed, all of the world of cultivation would see the true face of the LanlingJin Sect. Do you think killing me alone would put you eternally at ease? How wrong you are! We, the TingshanHe Sect, teem with talent. From now on, we’ll unite and never surrender to you Wen-dogs of another skin!”

Sounds familiar?

After a few laughs, he continued, “Sect Leader Jin, let me ask you something else. Do you think that, because the QishanWen Sect is gone, the LanlingJin Sect has all right to replace it?”

Wei WuXian added, “Everything has to be given to you? Everyone has to listen to you? Looking at how the LanlingJin Sect does things, I almost thought that it was the QishanWen Sect’s empire all over again.”

Wei WuXian, “Did I say something wrong? Forcing living people to be bait and beating them up whenever they refused to obey—is this any different from what the QishanWen Sect does?”

These were voices that questioned the greater powers. This is what happened to these voices:

Jin Guangyao: That’s not the way to go about things, is it? The TingshanHe Sect rebelled and schemed to assassinate Sect Leader Jin with all its forces before it was caught red-handed. How could that be called without a reason?”

Flashback to Wen Chao, asking if the disciples in the Xuanwu Cave were rebelling when they protected Mianmian who was asked to be the live bait of a monster.

Also, flashback to Wei Wuxian standing up for the Wens and being called a rebel when he stood up for the Wens who were being used as live baits to strengthen the Jin.

The ones over there cried, “Brother! He’s lying! We didn’t, we didn’t!”

Flashback to Wen Ning "losing control" at Koi Tower probably due to Xue Yang's invention. But the point to be taken away is that Sect Leader He Su's younger disciples, who are harmless, are framed as murderers. A position similar to what Wei Wuxian was put into.

He Su, “Utterly nonsense! Open your eyes and fucking look! There are nine-year-old children here! Old men who can’t even walk! How could they rebel against anything?! Why would they assassinate your dad out of nowhere?!”

Funny how the evils of society comprised of old grandmas, uncles, a toddler, a doctor, a fierce corpse, and a cultivator with no status, no core, no money, no voice living in a cave with a pool of blood, digging the Burial soil to grow some potatoes.

And not those who were sitting on their thrones, reveling in riches and ordering people around.

Jin GuangYao, “Because you made a mistake and committed murder, Young Master He Su, while they refused to accept Koi Tower’s conviction of you, of course.”

"A mistake" reminds me of the incident at qionggi path. Even if Jin Zixuan hadn't died that day, they would've kept cornering Wei Wuxian until he'd have no other choice but to go on the offensive (which is what he did.)

Turns out even being sooo powerful that he could shake mountains, he eventually died.

Yet, at such a place, nobody would listen to his protests. Sitting before him were two villains who already treated him as though he were dead. What they enjoyed was precisely his dying struggle. Smiling, Jin GuangYao leaned back, waving his hand, “Hush him up, hush him up.”

"You shut them in live?"

Xue Yang turned around, curling his lips, “Wei WuXian never used live humans, but I wanna try.”

So, Xue Yang is an actual demonic cultivator who's protected by the Jins, murdered 2 entire clans and this is the third one and godness knows how many more. Absolutely very few people give actual fucks about what cultivation methods to employ. The one who really cared was perhaps, Lan Wangji.

Jin Guangyao as you can see isn't being "forced" to kill people because he's of lower birth and nobody accepts him :(

He's killing people to silence those who speak against his and his father's (and they both are one and the same entity. he's acting on his father's orders which he could've disobeyed and run away but he would lose his sect reputation and standing.)

Why does his reputation and standing mean more than the lives of all these 70 people ?

Were they trying to kill him? No.

Did they attack him first to the point he would lose his life? No.

Would they have thrown him into a whore house? No.

Let us please not compare Wei Wuxian and Jin Guangyao.

MXTX wants us to know what's said and told may not be right. Wei Wuxian isn't fond of the techniques that are used to confirm Jin Guangyao's demise. He's critical of how nobody else is concerned. He's unsure of what NHS's motivations are - does he now want complete power? or did his plan only extend up to his revenge? He's critical of how only yesterday people were all over this guy and today they hate him. Critical of how society works on what is favourable and not what is true.

But he's not SUPPORTIVE of Jin Guangyao. He's sympathetic to people turning onto you, but not empathetic towards Jin Guangyao. He believes Jin Guangyao to be a cruel man.

Those are two different things.

Nobody knows better than Wei Wuxian how it feels to be set up at every step:

1. Firstly he was used as a punching bag for Madam Yu and an emotional one for JC throughout his childhood

2. The Wens completely played him up, setting him as the cause of LP's fall.

3. Then, he was played by the Jins and the cultivation world until his death by validating JC's jealousy against him, by villianizing him and estranging him, by setting up the ambush, by sending JZX, by making false promises, by not checking for validity, by controlling Wen Ning, by setting up the seige parade, by getting JYL there, and finally the seige. (even after his death disrespecting his all)

4. He was brought back to the world on the revenge plans of NHS and tossed like a tennis ball from the plans of NHS and JGY. Yi City arc? children would've died -> NHS. Burial Mound seige 2.0? everyone would've died -> JGY. if LWJ wasn't with him at every step of the way, Wei Ying would've once again been in such a spot. Without any status or authority he would've gotten no help, no aid, and been villianized once more. He would've been stabbed and captured with nobody to save him. He would've made himself the bait without anybody to fight the monsters off.

Each of us have individual capacities and also, each of us have the one thing we cannot let happen:

1. Wei Ying can't let injustice prevail and sit by the side doing nothing

2. Jin Guangyao can't take in being stripped of power and being a lowlife again.

Those are two very different things. JGY made every decision he could to escape his grand fear, which was personal. I don't condemn his motivations personally cause I find them hot. Similar to how I find his character hot. Yet, he's not the hero on the opposite spectrum. He's not the lowlife who was killed because people can't handle people from lower birth statuses being on the top chairs for making decisions - but that is also true - but is not the reason behind his tragedy. Not the sole reason and also not the most important reason.

The most important reason is as it is said: he believes himself to be different and values his life over others, similar to Xue Yang. Their personalities vary greatly, yet his "true" friends were Xue Yang and Su She. (He showed glimpses of the truth and of his reality to LXC. So, he's hiding the truth and LXC doesn't wish to dig deeper anyways thus not a true friendship.) One wished to take revenge in extremely unfair shares, a clan for a finger. A clan for a son. The entire cultivation world could die but he couldn't be badmouthed or put on trial or killed. The other - Su She, wished to be recognized by those who he equally hated, despised and considered arrogant and also was jealous and envious of. So, these two traits - great desire for revenge onto everyone who's ever said anything mean about him, and the desire for power. You may argue how this developed from his childhood trauma but you can't argue that this justifies his cold blooded crimes because it doesn't. Another thing I'd like to add is that, his friendship with Lan Xichen also shows his personality; not wanting to take the messy, big path (such as showing up to your own death planning party, or planning a death party) and his relatively calm nature. Yet just like the friendship it is fragmented and fake; a composure that is stuck onto the cold, and hot brimming desire for power.

There was one character who had to kill a large number of people or would have no other option left and it wasn't Jin Guangyao. There was one character who was hated by society solely because of his background and his desire to protect people and it wasn't Jin Guangyao. There was one character who had to give up everything for what he believed in and it wasn't Jin Guangyao. There was one character who ended up being the indirect reason for the passing of loved siblings due to the unjust society.

and it wasn't Jin Guangyao.

(but there were two characters who had confirmed sex before marriage. one of them was Jin Guangyao)

#mo dao zu shi #mdzs #mdzs meta #wei wuxian #jin guangyao #xue yang slaughtered 2 clans and was protected by the jins #xue yang #cultivation world bullshit #jin zixuan #wei ying #burial mounds #wen remnants #my meta #my thoughts #my essays

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piosplayhouse · 1 year

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I love it when people are like wwx shouldn't be called a mass murderer because he only killed people during war :(( if you do that then ALL the characters are mass murderers!! like A. nightless city massacre B. yes everyone else who fought in the war and killed a lot of people in mdzs is also a mass murderer

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maria-taiwin · 2 months

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Honestly I will always think that the whole sequence of events (temporarily saving Wei Wuxian in a cave after Nightless City massacre - fight with Lan elders who wants wwx dead - returning a delirious wwx back in burial mounds with the unarmed Wens remnants there - returning back alone to Gusu to accept punishment - and then the shock for wwx's death) from LWJ's pov doesn't make sense. It only makes sense for plot convenience (lwj has to be alive in wwx's second life) but rationally? I only see gaps.

I already discussed this topic. And read many brilliant meta, but such meta required a lot of mental gymnastics because they were interpretations "over the lines". If I only look at the canon text I have still this mindset, I can't help to see nonsense in such sequence of events and yeah maybe being described poorly from an outsider doesn't help. Sorry I love this novel but this sequence of events was... meh.

#mdzs #lan wangji #wei wuxian #wangxian #the untamed #cql #I tag also the adaptations because I saw discourse over “this doesn’t make sense” scenes #and I want to point out this gap #at least to me it is #mdzs lwj #mo dao zu shi #lan xichen

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essekknits · 2 months

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In the Jiang Yuan AU, I just realised what the rumour would be once A-Yuan gets in touch with Lan Wangji, because obviously Lan Wangji would want to be part of the kid’s life.

Once the little Jiang heir starts spending more and more time in Cloud Recess, especially around Hanguang-jun, the rumours would start that while his father was a Jiang disciple, his mother was actually a Lan disciple, some rumours go as far as claiming her to be part of the main clan bloodline. Rumour has it the two met on the front lines of the war and eloped, hiding the elopement and the pregnancy from the rest of the world for fear of disapproval from their families (the Lans especially, as the Jiang disciple wasn’t main family, despite the sworn brotherhood between him and the clan leader), with the mother leaving her clan to save face.

The mother is said to have died in the Nightless City massacre, called back to protect the world from the tyranny of the Yiling Laozu, and the father died in the burial mounds, as was well established in the past. Sect leader Jiang, being the only one who knew of the child, took him in as his own.

As you can imagine, a certain fan enthusiast had a hand in spreading the story around, maybe for the child’s protection and maybe for his own amusement.

#jiang yuan au #lan sizhui #lan yuan #a yuan #lan wangji #wei wuxian #mo dao zu shi #nie huaisang #jiang cheng

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korpikorppi · 1 year

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The Untamed costumes: Lan Wangji's outfits

Bonus:

Just in time to celebrate his birthday (January 23rd), here's a compilation of the venerable Hanguang-Jun's outfits (and... a not-outfit) 🩵.

The episodes where each outfit is seen in and links to individual costume posts I've made this far:

Episodes 3-8 (during the Gusu Summer School) (costume post)

Episodes 8-11 (from embarking on the Yin Iron Quest to the Wen attack on Gusu) (costume post)

Episodes 11-14 (during the Wen Indoctrination and the Xuanwu cave) (costume post)

Episodes 18-24 (during the Sunshot Campaign and aftermath)

Episodes 25-29 (from Phoenix Mountain Hunt to Qiongqi Dao to Burial Mounds and aftermath)

Episodes 30-33, flashbacks in 1, 43 & 46 (from Jin Ling's celebration to Nightless City massacre)

Episodes 1 & 2, 33-45 (from Mo residence to Yi City to 2nd Siege of Burial Mounds)

Episodes 45-50 (from the meeting at Lotus Pier and the golden core reveal to Guanyin Temple)

Episode 50 (as Chief Cultivator in Cloud Recesses)

Bonus from episode 33.

A couple of related extra costume posts:

the Lan head ornaments

the blue-stoned jewellery worn with outfits 2 and 9.

the waist ornaments

#theuntameddaily #character costumes #character costumes: lan wangji #the untamed costumes #lan wangji #lan wangji's costumes #the untamed #cql #guzhuang #mine

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poorlittleyaoyao · 3 months

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is jgy different in the books than in the untamed? sorry if u haven’t read them im kind of just assuming u have even tho i haven’t lol but i was wondering if his characterization has any major differences like how wwx in novel vs untamed they sort of sanitize him and take away any culpability and honestly some of his edge. just curious if there’s any major differences in his characterization between the two

I'm not the best person to answer because I've only read the first two volumes of MDZS. Short answer: Yes, he is different, and in fact gets the reverse of WWX's treatment: Drama JGY is more overtly villainous than Novel JGY. However, IMO it's a little more complicated than that!

(Novel enjoyers, please chime in if I'm forgetting or misrepresenting anything.)

A lot of JGY fans greatly prefer the novel and feel that The Untamed did him dirty, because a lot of the show's plot changes that make WWX look better make JGY look worse. Jin Zixuan's death is the most glaring one: in the novel, WWX really does lose control of WN because he overestimates his abilities, and it's a tragic accident. JGY and SMS's implied involvement in the Massacre at Nightless City also doesn't happen in the novel; that, too, was a devastated WWX wreaking havoc and/or losing control. The novel also establishes that JGY is subject to abuse within Jinlintai, so there's an element of duress that one can read into his actions under JGS. Novel NMJ behaves more aggressively towards JGY than he does in the show, so his murder doesn't have the same tinge of malice. (The novel timeline also has JGY and LXC meeting before JGY and NMJ, all during Sunshot, so there's that.) Additionally, the novel tells us that JGY is genuinely a very good leader once he's Chief Cultivator and has implemented policies that have improved the lives of regular people and contributed to political stability. We're also told more about his childhood and his love for his mother, and we learn that his relationship with QS is a tragic love story (he doesn't know they're related until after she's pregnant) rather than something he went through with anyway. So in the novel, he's got a lot of positive things going for him that censorship didn't allow to carry over into the show for fear of having too much moral ambiguity.

HOWEVER!!!

The thing about the novel (and why I don't vibe with it as much) is that it's very much WWX's story, whereas The Untamed spends wayyyyy more time with its supporting cast. You might've noticed that I said the word "told" a lot in the above paragraph, because... well, that's what happens. We're told things about JGY, but we don't see him as much, especially since the novel is focused on the post-timeskip era with the stuff in the past coming through non-linear flashbacks. You don't get to see Meng Yao being Just A Little Guy very much before he becomes the Kitten Thinks About Nothing But Murder All Day meme. Now, you also don't hear dramatic music telegraphing HEY!!! HEY!! VILLAINY IS AFOOT!! HEY!!! every time JGY does literally anything, but you do have everything filtered through WWX's unreliable narrator monologue, and he is out there saying some truly wild shit. (You also get less Xiyao. Like, it's there if you want it to be, but The Untamed really went all-in on that.)

For me, the show works better, because I am a sucker for corruption arcs where you see glimpses of the character before they start the atrocities. Seeing him be Just A Little Guy making the saddest meow meow faces when people were mean to him kept me from totally losing sympathy for/interest in him once things start getting squicky, because I had evidence that he wasn't always like that. Meanwhile, JGY's first big scene in the novel is the confrontation with QS (which already makes my skin crawl and is somehow WORSE in novel form), and I was just like "wow, this guy sucks" even though I knew the story and all the extenuating circumstances already. For others, the novel works better, because "first impressions and society's opinion are unreliable" is a major theme, so the reverse reveal combined with the fact that he demonstrably tries to improve people's lives as a leader is less expected and more satisfying.

So yeah! JGY is different, but the ways in which he is different are due to storytelling methods as well as to plot changes!

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