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our-lesboy-experience · 20 hours

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hiii!!! so uh, this is sorta about 'contradicting' (?) identities in general, but i only recently found out about, like, lesboys and gaygirls and all of that, but what is it exactly? like how does it work? or is that weird to ask? i'm trying figuring myself out but a lot of stuff i've seen doesn't exactly... explain it (or explain it well), and while i guess i do get why, it's just kinda hard to understand it myself for my own identity

also, probably a question you get a lot in a hating way, but isn't the definition of lesbian nonman loving nonman? so then how does lesboy work? like is it for people with more complicated gender identites, like fluctuating genders and bigender? just genuinly confused, my apologies...

sorry for not getting to this sooner- been busier lately and didn't have the time to collect everything I needed to respond!

About what it exactly means to be a lesboy or a gaygirl ('turigirl' is the more common term, 'turi' meaning turian, another word for gay attraction to men. so I'll be referring to it as that from now on), there isn't exactly....one right way to call yourself such. it really depends on the person, but I can give you a basic definition and a list of common reasons someone may call themselves such

im gonna put a read more because this ended up being super long so sorry

lesboy is a term for any lesbian who may have a connection to manhood and/or masculinity. turigirl is just the opposite of that, a gay person (mlm/nblm) who may have a connection to womanhood and/or femininity. common reasons I've seen are:

being multigender or genderfluid

being cusper/in between trans and cis gnc (in between trans man and cis gnc woman, in between trans woman and cis gnc man)

being a system who uses lesboy/turigirl as a collective identity or when identities blur together

a person who uses man/boy or woman/girl as a means of masculine or feminine gender expression but not actually identifying as such

being a trans man/ftm or a trans woman/mtf who still identifies as lesbian or gay for personal reasons

those are far from all the reasons, everyone has their own unique experiences, but the gist is these people may have some sort of connection to manhood/womanhood while still having a queer attraction. personally, I'm multigender, genderfluid, and transmasc. lesboy I find is a nice label to express being both my bigender self and being a lesbian, as it forces people to acknowledge both without separating the two. it's cute and makes me feel validated!

as for "nonman attracted to nonmen" definition of lesbian......it has its issues. it's received criticism all around from all sorts of lesbians in the community. this definition is very new - it emerged only in the recent years, and someone on twitter had date searched it and found it didn't even really exist before 2019. and having that as the one and only official definition that every lesbian has to abide by, when lesbian is a centuries old word with so much history behind it, is a bit ignorant. people who are multiple genders or ftm or bi being lesbian is not even remotely new, going back decades upon decades, and it never stopped existing too. It's a bit weird to have a whole new definition that doesn't include all sorts of lesbians that have been here for so long and just tell them they're not welcomed anymore, right?

that's not even close to the only issue there is with it. it's been disliked for centering lack of attraction to men, or defining lesbian in relation to men, rather than who we're actually attracted to. putting nonbinary people in a new binary of either being "men or nonmen," which not all feel comfortable putting themselves into. especially when considering a definition of gay being "nonwomen attracted to nonwomen," man-woman bigender people are simultaneously excluded from being both lesbian or gay. It inherently overlaps with mspec identity ("attraction to nonmen, which is more than one gender" and "any orientation that involves attraction to more than one gender" kinda obviously overlap), despite people insisting that a lesbian can never be mspec. people have found multiple loopholes in it, (which I can elaborate on if someone wants me to, for the sake of trying to make this as short as possible), and lastly, and term "nonman" (and nonwoman) were found to have existed before to describe the degendering of black people in society. this isn't the only source I've seen for this, but sadly I can't exactly find it (or find it without going back to that hellsite called twitter and I'm not doing that to myself)

oh and as the link points out, defining lesbian by these words also ends up excluding a lot of two-spirit people from ever identifying as lesbian, myself included. which is also really racist. I don't know how you're gonna end up excluding a whole cultural gender that's common for indigenous americans to describe themselves with and try to prove it somehow isn't racist, to be honest

and lastly, some surveys/polls have shown that the definition isn't the most widely accepted by lesbians as people make it out to be. there's this simple poll that someone posted asking how lesbians felt about the definition that received 1,529 responses, and 61.1% of voters said they disliked it. comments gave lots of reasons I've stated already. there was another survey put out that received 211 responses that for any lesbian who had a genderqueer or unique relationship with gender, and one of the questions asking opinions on the "nonmen loving nonmen" as a definition. the average among the group was slightly negative (average 2.838), and reported that the group who tended to feel the most positively about it didn't consider themselves to be trans, with the other positive leaning group considered themselves to be somewhat cis. the group that felt the most negatively sometimes considered themselves to be trans. and of the multigender participants, the average opinion was 2.255 (more negative than the overall average). When concluding, the original poster stated, "When divided by gender, the only groups to feel positive about this definition were "not trans" and "somewhat cis" participants. Multigender participants felt especially negative about this definition"

all of this shows that this definition isn't nearly the best for everyone who considers themselves a lesbian. I know it's been a way to include nonbinary people who are lesbian in it's definition, but I think it really misunderstands why nonbinary people are included in lesbianism in the first place, and just assumes that all nonbinary people aren't men and fails to recognize that multigender/genderfluid people are nonbinary too. and it's not like lesbian has to only have on definition- it can definitely have multiple and depend on each person's experience with it. if someone personally defines them being lesbian around being a nonman attracted to nonmen, and takes pride in not being attracted to men, that's totally fine. what becomes a problem is forcing all lesbians to define themselves like this and make it the standard, or else they're "not real lesbians." it is ahistorical and ignorant to require this or else you'll strip them of their lesbian status, and is really at the end of the day, lesbophobic. especially as a requirement that primarily exists in online spaces. im sure the lesbian who is not at all connected to these circles doesn't particularly care about strict requirements or whether someone is a "nonman" or not. in conclusion, it is not the best nor most accepted definition of lesbian, and deciding which lesbians are valid or not based solely on that definition is pretty exclusionary and ends up policing a lot of lesbians, myself included

#lesboy #turigirl #lesbian #gay #multigender #genderfluid #mspec lesbian #asks #tw exclusionism #tw queerphobia #lesbophobia #I can definitely elaborate on some points if asked #I do have some thoughts I've never shared before

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queerbatting · 1 year

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people need to realize that dissolving the lines between gender also means dissolving the lines between sexuality. you cannot say gender is fake and then say sexuality is strict and rigid.

there are multigender/genderfluid people who are lesbians and gay men at the same time. there are mspec lesbians/gays/straights who have a complex relationship with gender and their sexuality. there are gay men who are women and lesbians who are men because male isn't the opposite of female.

"conflicting" labels are a part of many people's queer experience, because the human experience isnt simple enough to be put into neat perfect categories. if you truly support trans/genderqueer people, you need to accept the fact that gender and sexuality is complex and there will be people whose identities you don't understand

#queer #mspec gay #mspec lesbian #mspec straight #lesboy #multigender #turigirl #veldigirl #sexuality #lgbt #lgbtq #critter chitters

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transonlyspace · 4 months

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moonshinedyke · 7 months

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I am literally fucking BEGGING you all to also acknowledge the racism behind the terms "non-man" and "non-woman" and how they're used in queer definitions.

Black and Indigenous queer people have literally been talking about this since the definition was COINED but there's literally NO acknowledgement of this when pointing out why "non-men loving non-men" and "non-women loving non-women" are shitty fucking definitions to force on a whole community.

"Nonman" and "nonwoman" are terms that have been historically used to describe the degendering of black people in society. And words can obviously be used to mean different things- we don't have to stop using these terms altogether. But forcing these terms on a whole community of queer people is really fucking antiblack.

Not to mention that it blatantly degenders a lot of 2S lesbians and gays as well. It basically tells them that they can't be 2S and as a lesbian or gay at the same time, because then they would be "contradictory." I seriously hope I don't have to explain how racist it is to exclude a large portion of Two-Spirit people from your queer label because they don't fit into your neat little white gender binary.

Like these definitions aren't bad to use for yourself personally- but stop forcing them on all lesbians/gays. And if you're advocating for why these shouldn't be used as the most prominent definition, PLEASE acknowledge the racism aspect of it.

#gaytekeeping #racism #mspec lesbian #mspec gay #lesboy #turigirl

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eggdoesthings · 4 months

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Begging people to get normal about the way multigender people label their attraction

#egg has thoughts #multigender #bigender #pangender #polygender #trigender #lesboy #turigirl #fagdyke #gaybian #lesgay #Sapphillean

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thehealingsystem · 1 year

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It's so wild to me that as a community we're still so hostile to multigender and genderfluid people existing in gay and lesbian spaces.

You...are aware that people who are both men and women are allowed to be gay, right? And lesbian? Their other genders doesn't cancel their connection to womanhood, or manhood, or whatever else they id with. They are allowed to be gay despite their fem-alignment, and they are allowed to be lesbian despite their masc-alignment.

It comes from these weird online spaces that the standard to be gay or lesbian is to be a "non-woman" or a "non-man," which is inherently transmultiphobic and...extremely ahistorical. And completely misunderstands nonbinary identity. So if you're both then you just don't belong anywhere I suppose.

#they treat these people as abnormal when really shoving anyone into categories of non-women and non-men is fucking #completely out of touch with how identity works #like i saw a demiboy lesbian flag and the comments are just FILLED with teenage queers getting so mad for no reason #saying shit like im in your walls or your father left you or whatever #please this is so CHILDISH grow UP #multigender #genderfluid #gay #lesbian #lesboy #turigirl #queer #lgbtq #just a he/they transmasc nonbinary boydyke lesbian VERY tired of this nonsense #actually erasure of multigender experience and that one of our genders will cancel out the other #made me very resistant to the fact that i may still be connected to feminity and girlhood #even though i am undoubtedly am #transmultiphobia

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antisocialbimbo · 9 months

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Shoutout to the coolest motherfuckers around

- AMAB (trans/enby) lesbians

- Masc presenting transfem AMAB ppl

- Lesgays / Gaybians / Fagdykes

- AFAB intersex transfems

- AMAB intersex transmascs

- AFABS who are transfem anyway and AMABS who are transmasc anyway

- Transmascfems / Transfemmascs

- ALL transneutrals

- Mspec gays & lesbians

- Lesboys / Gaygirls / Velaurians

- FTM mothers

- MTF fathers

- Neopronoun users

- Xenogender users

- MTF Femboys and FTM Tomboys

- Loveless aromantics / Romance repulsed aros

- Aplatonics / Aplatonic spectrums

- Lesbians with Bfs

- Gays with Gfs

- She/Her Gays

- He/Him Lesbians

- Any enby who uses he or she pronouns

- Transsexuals

- Invisibly disabled queer and trans people

- Visibly disabled queer and trans people

I LOVE YOU ALL SO SO MUCH PLEASE NEVER STOP BEING YOURSELVES 🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤

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thexspiral · 17 days

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"We need more weird queer people!"

Yall can't accept lesboys and turigirls

Yall can't accept mspec gays and lesbians

Yall can't accept cistrans people

Yall can't accept FtMtF trans women and MtFtM trans men

Yall can't accept intersex people who aren't cis or trans

Yall can't accept transfemmascs

Yall can't accept gaybians

Yall can't accept neurogender people

Yall can't accept loveless aros

Yall can't accept aplatonics

Yall can't accept xenogenders

Yall can't accept cis non-binary people

Yall can't even accept straight trans folks.

#scott rambles #queer #queerpunk #lesboy #turigirl #mspec gay #mspec lesbian #cistrans #ftmtf #mtftm #intersex #transfemmasc #gaybian #neurogender #loveless aro #aplatonic #xenogender

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murielsbottombitch · 9 months

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the progressive leaving people's body when they hear about mspec gays, he/him lesbians, she/her gays, multigender people, oriented aroaces, xenogenders or any other "weird" queer label:

y'all care so much about queer people until we aren't queer in a way that aligns with your binary world view

#mspec gay #mspec lesbian #mspec vincian #mspec veldian #he/him lesbian #she/her gay #turigirl #lesboy #bigender #multigender #xenogender #aroace #oriented aroace #angled aroace #queer #lgbt #image comes free #genderpunk #amatopunk

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everyponie · 6 months

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Give me all the strange queerness!! I want lesbians with beards, femmes with top surgery, gay men with boobs, bears in dresses!! I want it all!!

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sapphic-boy · 1 year

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ppl are literally so shitty about multigender people particularly boy+girl multigender ppl and i dont think they even realize it

saying boys cant be lesbians excludes us

saying girls cant be gay dudes excludes us

saying you cant be straight and gay or straight and lesbian at the same time excludes us

saying "non-men loving non-men" and "non-women loving non-women" excludes us

saying lesbian and gay are inherently inclusive of nonbinary people while also saying lesbians cant love men and gay dudes cant love women excludes us

having "men dni" or "women dni" on ur nblw/wlw and mlnb/mlm blogs excludes us

#bigender #multigender #nonbinary #lesboy #turiagirl #turigirl #straightbian #straightgay #androgyne

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doomsdayradio · 5 months

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i love you mspec lesbians and bi lesbians and pan lesbians and omni lesbians and ply lesbians and abro lesbians and mspec gays and bi gays and pan gays and omni gays and ply gays and abro gays and mspec straights and bi straights and pan straights and omni straights and ply straights and abro straights and abros and gaybians and lesboys and trans man lesbians and turigirls and trans woman gays and enbyhets and aplatonics/aplspecs

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intersexfairy · 1 year

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i love when men. especially when trans, gnc, and nonbinary men. i love men and the way they exist.

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mogai-flaggot · 3 months

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BUTCHBEAR ; for those who identify with both the butch and bear labels. this can be self-described however the identifier pleases, and represents queerness in masculinity and self-love.