#here for all the interpretations of their queerness and celebrating how many people feel seen by them 💜

[foolishlovers]

something something about finding a community in the good omens fandom that celebrates queerness in so many forms, something about finding yourself in characters on screen that teenage you never thought would see the day, something about sharing this experience with people who are just as moved by the queer love story about an angel and a demon, something about the significance and impact of that story that isn’t just fictional

#just babbling but i love this fandom 🤧 #here for all the interpretations of their queerness and celebrating how many people feel seen by them 💜 #good omens #foolish talks

[queenofthearchipelago]

The good omens fandom has been disappointing lately, and I don't mean because of Neil. I mean because of the small pocket who lashed out at Neil not long ago.

For those reading my post out of context, let me explain quickly that Neil has always said, very specifically so, that Aziraphale and Crowley are not men, and therefore are not gay. That being gay is a human thing, and angels and demons generally don't even really understand it. (This is not a direct quote from him, but I've read this sentiment from him a few times.) And in response to that, I've seen popular members in this fandom respond in harsh anger because they feel that when Neil says these things, that it comes from a place of internalized homophobia that he's been holding onto like his life depends on it for the last 30 years.

If I may gently offer a different perspective... and please do not come for me, I really genuinely do not want to interact in debate or argument, I simply want to lay out how I see this, and lay it down as a kinder perspective for those it may help.

Neil (and Michael and David) have always used incredibly vague language to determine who and what exactly Aziraphale and Crowley are to each other. The only consistencies are that they are an angel and a demon and they love each other, they're in love with each other.

If it comes to answering any questions more specific than that, like if they're gay, then the answer is that Aziraphale and Crowley are not men, they're supernatural beings.

This is not coming from a place of bias, this is coming from a place of protecting the fandom.

This fandom is such a diverse and beautiful place. I see many people who headcanon them as being gay. I also have met people here who headcanon them as lesbians. As being trans. As being asexual. As gender fluid. As being every different type of orientation and identity possible. The theories and headcanons on who and what Aziraphale and Crowley are, is just as varied as every single person in the fandom.

And that's so important.

For a group of people who know what it feels like to not have representation on screen... for some since the book has come out more than 30 years ago and for some who have only come into this fandom with show 5 ish years ago, you guys know how important representation is.

I can't help but feel that some of this frustration and anger towards Neil for not blatantly saying that it's a gay love story comes from a place of wanting their version of Aziraphale and Crowley to be deemed superior to the others at the cost of erasure of the orientations and identities possible in everyone else's headcanons.

It's a queer love story, whatever that means to you. Before the first season aired, Neil directly said that no one was trying to take your version of Aziraphale and Crowley away from you. And do we not all read the same blog? I see posts from this man celebrating how different members of his readership, young and old, find representation and comfort within this story he AND TERRY PRATCHETT made.

I do wonder if you would treat Terry this way. I sure hope not.

We're never going to get Neil Gaiman saying these characters are gay, because it would crack the very rare and delicate and beautiful thing that's been created here. A couple of characters in a deeply loving relationship where you the audience get to decide what their relationship is? Where you get to decide their gender, because they literally don't have one? A story where the characters could genuinely, canonically, be like you because there's nothing inside the story saying that aren't like you? Where that freedom to interpret is part of the very foundation of the characters?

What other story would you guys be getting that from? Because I don't see any others like that on any bookshelf I've scanned recently.

Neil isn't going to ruin that for you.

And even if he did, he's also directly said that his stories speak for themselves. He isn't Word of God. Neil doesn't pretend that extra information he brings on Tumblr dot com actually adds anything to the story we all watched. That stands on its own, anything extra he may say or not is up to us to decide if we think it's canon or not. Do you, yes you, very specifically YOU... do you care about Word of God? Do you care about Author's Intent?

These are choices you make as a reader, as a viewer of intelligent television.

Aziraphale and Crowley are whatever you want them to be. They're in love. They always have been. And whatever that means to you, is yours and you can have that and share that and no one (not even Neil Gaiman) is ever going to take that precious thing away from you.

So write your fanfics and draw your fanart and participate in roleplays and take your comfort and guard your peace.

It's supposed to be safe here.

#I might delete this later #good omens #thoughtsfromthequeen

[ashtonisvibing]

"I kissed a boy, and I liked it"

Fandom: Jacksepticeye Egos

Alternate Universe: None? (Jackie isn't a hero in this universe)

Ship(s): Marvelsepticeye

Character(s): Jackieboy Man, Marvin the Magnificent

Warning(s): Alcohol, Sexual Actions(?)

Originally Published: Aug. 30th, 2023

Author's Notes:

so, you guys ever heard of that way better cover of "i kissed a girl", by jupither where it's instead gay (mlm)?

yeah so what if that but it's marvelsepticeye? but also minus the "hope my girlfriend don't mind it", only cuz i feel like it tbh. jackie's single here. and it's more loose inspiration (just the "kissing a fellow guy and getting confused by liking it" bit)

jackie thinking he's straight as a ruler until BOOM, hot guy comes walking up to him at a club

turns out he's very much not straight-

uhhhhh please note that i have NOT written people making out in... a while, so this might turn out like complete shit, and i apologize for that. but hey, can't get better if you don't start somewhere, right?? just be lucky i'm not turning this into a smut piece like i'm thinking of doing, the cringe levels with that writing would be off the charts- unless you guys would be fine with that then i dunno, part two maybe??? you'd have to watch a guy try to fumble around trying to describe sex LMAO

also, you might notice me using masculine terms for marvin. while yes, (my fanon interpretation of) marvin uses they/them pronouns, they're also just totally cool with masc terms! they're fine with any terms, i just sort of default to masc terms with them lol. but don't you worry, i'm not misgendering them, they just got that fun gender where they don't care.

okay, that's it, let's see some guys kiss!

jackie: he/him

marvin: they/them

Full Story:

Clubs were always too loud and too bright for Jackie to enjoy them like everyone else. He could barely stand to look at the flashing lights, and the music was so loud he couldn't hear anyone. That was ignoring the multiple conversations he could hear around him. He couldn't make out a single one, there were too many speaking at once. And that didn't help when someone tried to talk directly to him. It was like their voice became blended with the sea of others. The only safe spot to keep him from developing a migraine was the bar, but even then he'd need noise cancelling headphones to keep the voices from overstimulating him. It didn't help that he also got weird looks from the other bar patrons because all he ordered was a glass of water. He just hated the taste of any alcohol, no matter how much added mixings you might put into them.

The only reason he was even here tonight was because a friend of his wanted to celebrate their birthday here. And despite knowing that clubs were a sensory nightmare for him, they still begged Jackie to come along, even claiming that he was "trying to ruin their birthday". He... Really didn't understand why he still hung around his friends. They never really seemed to respect his boundaries, and he'd laid those out several times for them. He didn't have his car with him but he could easily just call a cab and leave, and he doubted any of them would even notice. They were too absorbed in the dance floor. That's how these club outings always went.

He was just about to pull out his wallet to pay for his water when someone sat down next to him. A man, seemingly a few inches shorter than himself, with long lavender purple hair tied into a loose braid. There were patches of burn scars on their face, hands, and neck, and those were the only ones that could be seen thanks to their long sleeved black dress and tights. Honestly they looked like they were somewhat dressed for Halloween with how much of a witch-y vibe Jackie got from their outfit. And god, were they gorgeous. Jackie didn't need to be queer to recognize that. They had such an elegant and mysterious aura to them, and he took one look and just wanted to know more about them. He wanted to know everything about them.

"So, what's a hot guy like you doing all alone here, hm~?" The person practically purred as they looked over at Jackie, a soft and playful smirk on their lips. Now that they were facing him, Jackie could see that the four card suits were drawn onto their forehead in a diamond layout. Or maybe even tattooed? Their eyes were also a vibrant blue and purple, seemingly glowing in the slight darkness that the bar area provided. But the strangest part of all was their voice. It was a heavenly sound to Jackie, almost hypnotic by how it pulled him in. But it also sounded so... Clear. Like every other voice was immediately drowned out the moment they spoke. But that didn't seem possible, maybe Jackie was just so curious about this person that he could push past the conversations for once.

"Just enjoying a glass of water. And considering leaving." Jackie yelled over the music and voices so the other person could hear him, just in case the noise was too much for them as well. But they just simply laughed and quickly ordered themself a drink; a Bramble, no ice.

"No need to yell handsome, I can hear you loud and clear." They chuckled softly, leaning an elbow against the bar top. "But then again, wonder what other ways you could yell~"

That caused Jackie's brain to just stop all trains of thought it had. Oh, okay, this guy was flirting with him. He didn't really know what to think right now, he'd never had anyone besides women flirt with him. And he never expected to actually... He quickly shook his head in the hopes he could clear his head and make his bright red cheeks fade back to their usual paleness. He didn't know why he suddenly got flustered like that, this had never happened before.

"So- Sorry, you've got the wrong guy, I'm straight." Jackie mumbled a little as he took a sip of his water to try and calm himself down. And to try and ignore how weird it felt to say that. A bad kind of weird. "I'm sure there's plenty of other guys that would love someone like you trying to get into their pants.

The mystery person simply hummed as they took a sip of their own drink now that they had it, swirling it absentmindedly in their hand. "Really now? Never seen a straight guy blush that hard over my words. But hey, what's one quick fuck? Or will that hurt your masculinity too much?"

That got Jackie to nearly choke on his water. He coughed a few times to get his throat cleared before looking back at the other. "Look, I don't know who you are, but you're being a little bit of a dick. I'm sorry I'm the first guy who didn't wanna fuck you, I guess." Oh wow, someone who actually bit back. The other person had to take a moment before just... Smiling, extending a hand to Jackie. Their fingernails were painted a crimson sparkly red.

"Marvin, they/them. Pleased to meet someone who actually has a back bone." They chuckled a little. Jackie looked at the hand held out to him like this was a trick. Marvin had just insulted him a second ago. But he still shook it nonetheless, albeit with slight caution.

"Jackie, he/him. Please to meet someone who spits venom, I guess."

That got a laugh this time from Marvin. "Sorry about that. Sometimes I forget to hold my tongue, it gets me into so much trouble you see." They leaned their head on their folded hands, propped up by their elbows. "But you must admit, quite strange of someone so straight to become so easily flustered, especially with no alcohol. I hadn't even reached my peak."

"You just- Caught me off guard, that's all." Jackie quickly looked away from the other lest his returning blush be shown. He hated that Marvin wasn't really wrong. There was something about them that sparked a feeling in his heart, one he'd certainly never felt before, not even from any women he'd been with. And it was scary. There was nothing wrong with being attracted to other genders, obviously. But he never liked change, even now. Change was unpredictable, he couldn't rationalize it. He didn't know if this was temporary or meant to last, this new feeling.

Marvin only gave a little nod in response, finishing their drink and pulling out the money needed to pay for it. "I'm not one to be lied to, darling. I can read people all too well." When they looked at Jackie, they didn't have a flirty smirk or a condescending look. Just a small smile that actually seemed genuine. "But hey, you clearly don't want to be here. Overstimulating, I'm assuming. You've been wanting to leave for a while. Why not leave with someone you can talk to? Nothing more than that, I promise." They chuckled a little and stood from their stool. "I know when I need to keep my hands to myself."

Okay, at the very least they weren't trying to invite him over for any sort of sex. He thought it over for a few moments. It scared him so much, not knowing what this feeling in his chest was. But at the same time... He wanted to know more. He wanted to discover who Marvin was, even if just for the night. Maybe he'd be able to figure out this feeling if he went. And it wasn't like his friends- No, not really friends. It wasn't like the people he came here with would care. He could just block their numbers if any of them tried contacting him. So with a shrug he stood up as well, placing his pay under his glass and putting his jean jacket on. "Alright, lead me to your place, then."

That brought a smile to Marvin's lips. As said they could easily read people like they were open books, and Jackie posed no challenge. They could see that curiosity now showing in him, over both themself and what happened with himself earlier. And that's why they invited him over: To hopefully help him learn something about himself, in whatever way they needed. Marvin didn't say a word, just taking Jackie's hand and quickly leading him outside and into the alleyway next to the club. Jackie just let himself get towed along. Maybe their car was parked behind the building. But when they stopped halfway through the alley he got confused.

"Um, I don't think this is where we can get a car from."

"Oh trust me hun, we don't need a car." Marvin chuckled. "Just for some privacy." They then held a finger up in front of them, and as they drew shapes in the air those same shapes appeared in front of them both, glowing a soft teal. And once they were done drawing they tapped the middle of the shapes, causing them to glow brighter until they revealed a living room. A portal right into a living room. Jackie backed away a little. There was a portal, right in front of them.

"What the fuck...??" Was the most he could muster. Marvin only chuckled before they stepped in and disappeared into the still image, their hand poking out a second later and beckoning Jackie to follow. He knew, logically, he should be running. He should be trying to wake himself up, there was no way he wasn't sleeping right now. But his curiosity was so peaked right now that he really didn't care. He needed to know what the fuck was currently in front of him. So he decided to take the hand poking out from the portal, just in case something might go wrong, and let himself walk through. And he was in the living room that the portal displayed. And no limbs were missing or suddenly a different color, nor were his clothes suddenly gone. He stepped through and was perfectly safe. And now standing pretty much chest to chest with Marvin, who was letting soft giggles that they couldn't help.

"Pretty good for someone who's never seen magic before, I was fully expecting you to have run off on your heels." Marvin giggled, unknowingly intertwining their fingers together. Just something about how their slightly smaller hand fit into Jackie's so nicely... It had a cozy feeling to it that he wanted to keep for as long as he could.

"Holy shit, that was actually magic..." Jackie ran a hand through his hair before letting out a soft laugh. He actually just experienced magic. Magic, that shouldn't be real, yet there it was. Maybe he really was just dreaming right now. He didn't know when he could have run into someone like Marvin in real life, but that didn't matter. For the moment he just let himself believe without turning to logic and reason. Just to let himself have a little bit of wonder for once. "That was magic, you just used magic."

Marvin found it adorable how excited the other was over such a discovery. Some simply didn't believe them, no matter how many tricks they pulled. Others just ran away out of fear. Jackie was the first to react so positively, and with such joy as well. They were thanking their lucky stars that they met this man tonight. "And I can pull off a lot more than just portals, hun." They giggled softly and tugged at Jackie's hand that was still in theirs (the realization of it making Jackie blush), guiding him to the U shaped couch and sitting him down in the middle. "I'm going to go make myself some tea." They said as they walked out of the room, presumably to the kitchen. "You want any?" They called out.

"Oh, uh, no thanks. More of a coffee guy personally." Jackie responded. And now that he was alone in the room he had the chance to look around and observe all of the surface level things. The living room had a very dark magic vibe, having a dark blue, purple, and red color scheme to it. Against the wall in front of him was a television stand with the standard things: TV, internet box, blueray player, as well as several movies stacked in the side cubbies of the stand. A coffee table stood in the middle of the couch with a stack of moon shaped coasters off to the side. Silk drapes and glow-in-the-dark stars hung from the ceiling to give an even more magical vibe. There were two shelves on either side of the TV that were filled with books, photos, and various knick knacks. He wanted to get a closer look at the photos to see who or what was in them, but he didn't want to be too intrusive. He didn't know how much of their private life Marvin wanted to give out to a complete stranger.

After a few minutes Marvin returned with their tea, sitting down next to Jackie and setting their cup down atop one of the coasters. "So, what do you think?"

"Um- About what?"

"About my living room, silly." They laughed softly, which pulled a sheepish blush to Jackie's cheeks. "Obviously you were looking around at it. But you don't seem like the type to snoop in other people's drawers so I trust you."

"Well, it's... Definitely you. I- If that makes sense." Jackie shrugged a little as he took a quick glance over everything. "Like, when I look at you, this is definitely what I can expect from a living room. At the very least." He rubbed the back of his neck once his eyes returned back to the person across from himself. "Sorry, that probably makes no sense."

Marvin just chuckled and picked up his tea, taking a sip now that it was a little cooler. At least not so hot that it would burn their mouth off. "It's actually the best reaction I've gotten. Every other guy I've brought home has told me it's so dreary, that I need some color or whatever. I suppose it's a good thing that they were all one night stands."

"So what, picking up guys from bars is a common occurrence for you?" Jackie laughed softly. He already knew the answer for that if their interaction at the bar was any indication of how the magician acted around other men. "But I've never been one to judge people on their taste in... Whatever. I guess unless it's, like, genuinely harmful or something. But this just looks like a vampire threw up over everything." Marvin had to keep themself from laughing lest they choked on their tea. Thankfully they got it down and just turned into a coughing fit. Jackie immediately bolted up in his seat when he noticed, rubbing the other's back in a poor attempt to help a little. "Shit- Are you okay?? I- I'm sorry, I didn't mean to almost kill you."

"No, no-" Another couple of coughs interrupted Marvin's sentence. "Don't worry, you're fine." They chuckled a little before clearing their throat to try and get rid of the tickling feeling now sitting there. "Sorry, I didn't mean to scare you. Nearly choked on my tea from laughing."

Jackie let out a small breath of relief. Admittedly he was scared that maybe the magician would have been upset at him for making a joke while they had tea in their mouth. "Well, it would've been a hell of a way to go then." He let out his own little chuckle, earning a small laugh from Marvin.

"Truly would have been one of the stranger possibilities. But to answer your question, yes. But you're the first one to not push me against the wall and shove a tongue down my throat so... You at the very least have class." And now it was Jackie's turn to nearly choke, but this time it was on air and out of complete surprise. He needed to get used to Marvin's bluntness over everything, even intimate details like that.

"I- I mean, there's also the obvious bit of me being straight, so of course I wouldn't do that."

"Denial doesn't look pretty on you, hun." The magician hummed as they took another sip of their tea.

"I-" Jackie was about to protest. But the words got caught in his throat, and he really had to consider if it was worth it to just... Keep ignoring this feeling in his chest over the person next to him. He didn't know how long it would last... Maybe he could get some answers. "Is it really that obvious...?"

"With how much you bring up your lack of gay, yes." Marvin chuckled a little, earning a sigh from the other, who was running his hands through his hair.

"I just-... I've never felt this way about any other gender." He leaned forward to rest his elbows on his knees, his foot tapping out of a need to do something. He always got like this when having important talks, and this was very clearly important. "But then you come along and... Not to get too personal, but suddenly I've got this want to pull you in and make out with you. And I don't even think it's cuz you present femininely, but I don't know what else it could be besides... Apparently I'm gayer than I thought!" He did little jazz hands as he exclaimed. "And obviously, there's nothing wrong with that. But when you think you're one way your entire life and suddenly something happens and you're now something else..."

"It can be really scary, yeah." Marvin interjected, looking down at the scars on their hands. "I get that, trust me. Maybe a little more than you." They then shifted themself so that they could be closer to Jackie's face. "But you've got the urge to make out with me? Well, why not go for it then?"

Yeah, Jackie really needed to get used to that bluntness.

"Wh- Because I've literally never met you before tonight??" He backed away a little when he realized just how close Marvin had gotten. His cheeks were now red and he was looking at literally anything but the magician in front of him. And there was that urge again. To grab this person by the face and see what their lips tasted like. And he really couldn't push it down now. "I'm not going to just kiss a stranger without permission."

The magician then gave a shrug and a playful smirk in response. "I give you permission then. Go on. You don't seem like the kind of guy to try and take advantage of me, not in this state anyways. That and I could easily overpower you with a quick spell. But let's see if maybe this feeling is a one off thing. And if it is, no need for a sexuality crisis."

Okay, Marvin was really opening the floor for this. They were fine with Jackie experimenting with them. He was... A little thankful for that, honestly. At least he was experimenting with someone he probably had a genuine interest in. And so, he gave a nod for confirmation, leaning back in to Marvin to rest a hand on their cheek.

"Just, um, let me know if I do anything wrong. First kiss with a guy and all that."

That got a laugh out of Marvin. "I don't think it's any different than kissing a woman. But I've never kissed a woman, so who knows. Just... Do whatever feels right." They couldn't help as they bit their lip a little from anticipation. Jackie wasn't the only one who'd been having strange new feelings towards a complete stranger. The magician had felt a pull towards the other this entire night, something they hadn't ever felt towards someone before. They wanted to do so much more with this man, and for once they weren't even thinking about sex. To even just lay in his arms seemed like it would be a blessing. Jackie only gave another nod, taking a few seconds to prepare himself before finally connecting their lips.

Cherry. Marvin's lips tasted like cherry. He hadn't noticed any lipstick, so maybe this was lip balm. It was a surprising taste, he would've never associated them with cherries. But he loved it all the same. He loved this kiss all the same.

It remained slow at first, with Marvin making sure they let Jackie control the speed the entire time. They didn't want to possibly go too fast and overwhelm the other, no matter how much they wanted to. Jackie's lips on theirs felt like a breath of fresh air. Like they could finally breathe after having waited all night. And when Jackie wrapped an arm around his waist to pull them closer they were quick to respond with an arm around his shoulders, their other hand reaching up to undo his hairbun and tangle their fingers into his hair. And that pulled a hum from Jackie that nearly sent shivers down their spine. Oh if that simple hum caused such a reaction who knows what the other sounds that Jackie had would do to them.

Unfortunately the kiss didn't last for much longer, as Jackie pulled away for air, leaving them both staring at each other as soft pants left their lips. "So... How was that...?" Marvin spoke softly once they caught their breath enough.

"Good... Really good..." The other spoke just as softly. He didn't want to break whatever atmosphere had been created.

It only took a second for Marvin to be pulled back in for another kiss, much to their pleasant surprise. But this one was much harder, needier than the last one. It nearly turned the magician's brain to putty from the rush of emotions they were getting. And Jackie felt all the same, plus so much more right now. He didn't know why he kept himself in denial for so long if this is how amazing the kiss would feel. It didn't even matter if this was only his first with a guy, it was enough for him to know he wanted it all from Marvin.

A soft noise of annoyance and displeasure came out of him when it was Marvin's turn to pull away. But it was only to place a hand on his shoulder and push him back against the couch, now straddling his hips as the kiss resumed. Evidently the magician was a touchy one. Jackie's arms and shoulders weren't left alone from Marvin's hands. Those hands found themselves moving down to the other's torso, and with a hitched breath and slight arch of his back they were given permission to slip their hands up his shirt to keep feeling around. Jackie was a sensitive one when it came to touch, the magician was learning. His back was almost painfully arched into their hands, and they were sure that if they weren't making out right now they'd be hearing loud moans and whimpers from the other.

And Jackie managed to get some revenge for it. All it took was a little nip at their lip and a slip of his tongue for Marvin to become weak in his arms. Not like Jackie wasn't practically the same way, he was glad that his brain hadn't been turned to mush from all that he was feeling. The way their hands trailed over every inch of his chest, all of the soft moans he was managing to pull from them, the knee now pressing itself and rubbing a little against his crotch.

He was quick to pull away at that new feeling, gently pushing Marvin's knee away a little bit. The magician hadn't even realized what they were doing, but they were filled with dread with how fast the other stopped them. Maybe they'd completely ruined this now. "Shit, I'm... I'm sorry, I didn't even realize... I was moving too fast..."

Jackie shook his head at that as his grip tightened around the magician's waist, taking a second to catch his breath. "No, you're good, I... I just got thrown off is all.." He chuckled a little, his eyes now meeting Marv's. And theirs looked quite happy that they hadn't ruined anything. "But if we're going that far I think a bed will be better than the couch, yeah~?" Oh stars, help Marvin. That voice was enough to drive him up the walls.

"Yes, please~"

#ashton is writing #marvelsepticeye #jackieboy man #marvin the magnificent #jacksepticeye egos #jse egos fanfiction

[lost-technology]

Vash - Asexual Icon?

Okay, controversial hot-take ahoy!   This is NOT a anti-shipping post.  I freakin’ love shipping. It’s awesome!  I used to be big into Vash x Meryl back in my old OG fandom days.   However, I read something on here (because this is tumblr, of course) about Vash being a queer icon, as in some notation on how in Trigun Stampede the director was cited as saying that he made Vash kind of like “both the female lead as well as the male lead” - as in, male, but having some traditionally feminine traits, hence why he looks more “bishounen” than he did in other iterations.  He has some “ship-fodder” moments with various other members of the cast - commenting on Wolfwood’s “kind eyes” and, of course, my VashMeryl heart soared at a certain scene in Episode 11 - those who’ve seen it know the one.   So far, in this version, there’s no clear canonical shipping with Vash.  In the other iterations, there was never any canonical shipping with him (the only canon ship is the OG anime having Wolfwood and Milly “eat sandwiches” together).  He never “ends up” with anyone.   Some fans think that he’s heterosexual (well-argued in the OG anime due to his flirtatious behavior toward some female characters - the old late 1990s trope of “let’s make the hero a bit perverted for humor” that was popular at the time). I’ve met yaoi fans who were convinced that he’s one-hundred percent gay (despite the pervy toward attractive women behavior). Bisexuality can be very well-argued for him, especially in Stampede as noted above, also the “every character in every fandom is bisexual or pansexual in fandom” rule that people seem to have unless a character as a specifically stated sexuality.   But has anyone besides me ever thought of Vash as an...asexual?   (In this essay I will...)  Consider Vash’s general character through the franchise when it comes to romance and / or sex:  Stampede incarnation:  Has a few moments that can be interpreted as flirty or budding feelings toward both Wolfwood and Meryl, however, nothing clear.  His most significant relationship is familial - his grief-filled relationship with his toxic brother.  This seems to be what this anime is about.   Trigun Maximum incarnation: Never has any clear shipping with anyone, although there are interpretable moments, same as above.  I remember that moment of pretending to be unconscious to avoid the attentions of prostitutes and being ashamed of his scars in the manga, same as in the OG anime. Nothing else of note.   Classic Trigun Anime: Vash plays the flirt with pretty women.  He goes into that common Late ‘90s Flirty Shounen Hero trope for anime heroes of the time.  This seems more or less tossed in by the anime writers and director.  As the anime becomes more serious, this is generally forgotten in a “Vash has too much on his plate for the romance-stuff” and it’s an action anime, not a romance anime... And the same shame of his scars... the same scene with the sex workers as noted above. (The context for the scene is that a town is celebrating because Vash saved them all and some of the men in the town set up with the local brothel ladies to show Vash a good time as a reward.  Vash pretends to have drank too much and passed out, couldn’t be roused - to the disappointment of the brothel workers.  He gets up as soon as they leave and wonders “could I be regretting it? Maybe just a little)?   The scene is generally interpreted as him not wanting to take advantage of the women in the situation.  (Although, honestly they were eager)...  Well... it seems to me that Vash might not be as interested in the old bang-bang as some fans would like him to be (and are perfectly within their rights to fanart and fanfic to their hearts’ content).  Even the “flirty” Vash of the OG anime seems to be doing it as part of the fake-stupid / silly behavior that he does to throw people off-guard.  And where it seems to be genuine behavior, well... I still think asexuality is a valid interpretation because, speaking as an asexual, myself, many of us “do things that we think we are supposed to do” because society tells us that people are supposed to do certain things.  Some of us never learned what asexuality even was until fairly late in life and went through various ���supposed to” behavior even when we weren’t really feeling it before we discovered ourselves.   This is common throughout the queer community - the gay person raised in a community that is hostile who will try to date the opposite sex, someone thinking they are straight until they discover that they really are bi, and etc.  This happens to asexuals, too.  I had a boy-band member crush when I was 12, just like all “normal girls” did.  It took a while for me to figure myself out - that I wasn’t really “normal” and that it was okay.   Therefore, I see even the “Let’s make him pervy for comedy” written with clearly heterosexuality in mind of the OG anime as compatable with an asexual interpreation of Vash.  He was just doing the “I am a normal human” act!   Do keep in mind that I am arguing for “an asexual interpretation for the sake of fanwork / fan-fun” for Vash NOT based on his artificial human nature / his status as a plant, but just, individually, as a person.  

#vash the stampede #trigun #trigun maximum #trigun stampede #vash #asexuality #asexual #asexual vash #variable character interpreations #a real asexual having asexual thoughts on fandom

[alarrytale]

For me, all the signs are there with Nick that he's queer but I'm still a bit hesitant because he was quick to point out that he was straight when I think that if he was closeted he could have just not commented on his sexuality or refused to comment on it, and he also follows some women and likes half dressed pics of them but they tend to be fashion and pop girlies, I'm unsure how much weight social media holds when it's so public and if he is closeted he's hardly going to like pics of half dressed men. But having said that, there are more signs for me that he is queer. He looks queer for one thing. His flamboyance and mannerisms. He has a lot of queer friends. His knowledge about lgbtq+ history. Women seem completely comfortable around him and he seems like one of the girls, a bit like Harry. I'm still hesitant because we haven't really seen him around women who are really flirty or whatever and whether or not he responds positively to it. But as of this moment there are more signs for me that he is queer than not. Women don't tend to be that comfortable around straight guys, they're comfortable around queer men because there is much less chance that they'll come onto them. There's also the fact that Nick's current fanbase is mostly queer women and they're always making gay jokes about him, similar to Louis' fanbase. Obviously queer people are great at recognizing other queers. I think they go along with the 'straight' thing because he has said he is straight and there is a real purity culture on twitter where you need to take a celebrity's words for it. So they play off the gay thing as a joke. But I think most are questioning. There's some het Harrie type fans thrown in there too due to PH and tioy. Many gay men seem to think he's one of them, like Sh*wn M*ndes I guess, and sometimes it's wishful thinking but when they pretty much collectively think a guy is gay then I tend to believe them as they recognize their own. So I guess I'm leaning towards queer but not fully convinced yet. I do get the feeling that he holds back a bit, like Louis.

Hi anon,

This is a really good summary. I agree with most your takes and share your views. I'm also still a bit hesitant, cause there is still room for us interpreting things wrong.

I'm going to play the devils advocate here a bit. I haven't really seen him having sexual chemistry with neither men or women? (off screen that is). I'm seeing a very tactile, vulnerable, open and soft man who befriends and clings to both men and women. He looks very comfortable around both (little to no intimacy boundaries), but i'm getting a friends vibe and not attraction. He seems very respectful of women. He didn’t even flinch while resting his head on that female crew members boob. She didn’t either. I still feel a need to observe him more. We haven't seen real signs of flirting, sexual chemisty nor signs of attraction.

There is still a chance he's just very comfortable with his sexuality, and in touch with his feelings and his masc/femme sides (he's spoken openly about this), someone who's an ally and who rejects gender norms. Straight men like that are few and far in between. He's just so open and transparent with who he is, and it's throwing me off lol. He's not acting like someone who's in the closet. He seems too happy, free, genuine and confident. And, from the small parts i've seen so far, i don't see clear signs of lying when he speaks about identifying straight or his past girlfriends. But then again, i'm used to H and L who are really bad liars. Nick is a better actor. I just think he'd hate lying about being straight or having no same sex experience. Some days i'm leaning towards bi/pan. It would make the most sense in theory for me. But that doesn’t totally fit either. If you are right, and he does hold back a bit (or backtracks) then I think we'll see it with time. (He did unfollow that girl account yesterday after fans found out and it supported their 'one of the girls' theory.) It seems to me like he's pulling himself away a bit as he now found mainstream fame. That i recognise from H and L. We might see more signs of closeting in the near future.

Tldr; i'm still undecided. My heart says queer, but my brain says wait and observe more before concluding.

#this got long #sorting my thoughts #long post #nick galitzine

[sixty-silver-wishes]

If I could pick your brain for a bit, i was wondering if you had any cabinet of dr caligari theories on why alan doesn't seem to have a "real life" counterpart in the framing device/how he actually died or if he was even real at all. I have my own pet theories, but i love the way you disect and analyze the movie so i wanted to ask ^-^

I’ve thought about this a lot, and there are a ton of theories and interpretations I’ve heard, but to me, Alan represents lost innocence. He may have been based off a counterpart or just a construction of Francis’ imagination, but looking at this from both a postwar perspective and a psychological perspective, I feel this is the interpretation I like best.

Before WWI, many soldiers had never actually seen war, and so eagerly enlisted, only to be faced with a level of violence and brutality on a scale so wide that WWI was deemed “the war to end all wars”- of course, until WWII. Alan, similarly, is eager to go to the fair, where his fate will be decided. We don’t see very much of him, but from what we do see, he’s energetic, optimistic, and in love (and whether that’s with Jane, Francis, or both is up to interpretation!). When he asks Cesare how long he has to live, he does this with enthusiasm. Again, I’ve seen multiple interpretations of why this is the case, but from this angle, I think it lines up with the concept of young soldiers in WWI, eagerly marching to their deaths. (My friend has an interesting theory that Alan was a trench buddy whose death Francis felt responsible for, and I’ve also seen theories that Francis is queer, and Alan is his ideal man. I like both of these theories, and there’s a lot of angles you can go with here.)

From a different, more abstract perspective, I think Alan can represent Francis’ lost innocence. It’s never explained why Francis is in the asylum (Hans Janowitz, one of the screenwriters, didn’t even want the asylum scene added in, but it was added to soften the film’s anti-authority themes. Nonetheless, I think the asylum scene can also support an anti-authority reading, but that’s another post.) but due to a number of shared elements- for example, “Caligari” being the asylum director in both scenarios- I personally believe that Francis had some sort of traumatic experience and couldn’t process it properly, and projects his own experiences onto the people around him in order to cope. In Francis’ head, he gets to be the hero, the brave investigator to make sense of a chaotic, nonsensical world.

And yet, he still can’t save Alan. If anything, Alan has to die, or else the rest of the plot can’t happen.

Perhaps Alan represents Francis’ own mind before a traumatic event. Again, he is bubbly and carefree, before being suddenly cut down. We can also recontextualize him asking how long he has to live in this way, perhaps with his death representing the moment Francis’ innocence (and possibly sanity) was shattered. While this isn’t always the case, traumatic events can be flashbulb memories, where people remember the exact date and time they took place. With this in mind, “tomorrow’s dawn” may symbolize the moment of the event, in which Francis’ innocence is destroyed. He spends the rest of the film trying to solve Alan’s murder, maybe to give himself some catharsis- if he cannot save his own innocence, at least in his head, he can avenge it.

Also, this is strictly headcanon territory, but I hc Alan as a poet. This not only provides some contrast to Francis’ logical, at times aggressive, personality, but from a postwar perspective, adds a layer of symbolism in terms of WWI being the death of the Romantic movement. The fact that he’s killed by Cesare, whose costuming and movements suggest Expressionist art, can also symbolize the violence of WWI giving rise to Expressionism, which pushes human emotions to the extreme in a stylized, unnatural way as a response to the war, and the end of Romanticism, which celebrates the beauty of the natural world and human emotion.

#the cabinet of dr. caligari #headcanon #film analysis

[omniversalobservations]

From Donald and Goofy To (Possibly?) Luke and Yoda, Is "Kingdom Hearts 4" Losing What Makes Crossovers So Appealing In the First Place?

It’s 2022, and crossovers are everywhere. From Fortnite to Space Jam 2, media corporations have learned to play nice with one another in the name of epic money-making. It helps that a few of those corporations now own all of the other ones — and there is no media company more notorious for that accomplishment than Disney, the proud owner of Pixar, Marvel Studios, Lucasfilm, 20th Century Fox, and more. Perhaps that’s why the announcement of Kingdom Hearts 4, and the rumor that Star Wars characters could show up in the game, feels bittersweet.

It doesn’t help that Kingdom Hearts 3 did not exactly recapture the magic. Maybe it was because Sora and his friends sailed into the uncanny valley during the Pirates of the Caribbean section; maybe it’s because Elsa performed “Let It Go” in its entirety rather than cutting out a chorus or two and letting us be on our way. Or maybe it was because the landscape of pop culture has changed so much since the first Kingdom Hearts game came out back in 2002. These days, Sora has a much bigger villain to fight: the exhaustion that people everywhere have begun to feel toward crossover events in general and those from Disney in particular.

It didn’t used to be this way. Back in 2002, Kingdom Hearts was a revelation — a never-before-seen example of corporate collaboration across movies and video games. In a talk at DICE 2010, Disney exec Steve Wadsworth and his colleague Graham Hopper looked back on Kingdom Hearts’ legacy, with Hopper noting it was “so radical” for Disney and Square Enix to mash up their characters that many staffers worried internally that the result would be “an abomination.” Why would Disney have agreed to something like this, they wondered? Cloud Strife and Donald Duck, in the same game? How the heck was that going to work?

Here’s how Kingdom Hearts pulled it off: The game’s hero, Sora, ventures into a wacky multiverse of Disney and Final Fantasy worlds. He’s looking for his best friends Riku and Kairi, who’ve disappeared into the multiverse as well, even as it’s being overtaken by a mysterious darkness. Along the way, Sora befriends Donald Duck and Goofy, meets Aerith and Squall, and finds out his friend Kairi is a Disney princess (and, therefore, a damsel in distress in need of his rescue — it was the early 2000s, after all). Meanwhile, Maleficent has manipulated Riku against his friends, allowing for a conflict and eventual resolution between Sora and Riku that inspired decades of queer fanfiction. In the end, Sora and his pals unite to fight back against the darkness, which turns out to be manifestations of their own self-doubt and unhappiness. Their triumph is best summed up as love conquering all. It sold like gangbusters.

[...]

Kingdom Hearts felt like fanfiction. Specifically, it felt the way fanfiction felt in the 2000s; back then, fan-created works explored groundbreaking, risky ideas (like queerness), but they were also on very shaky legal ground, often mocked by authors who didn’t like to see their characters re-interpreted by fans. Nowadays, fanfiction is seen as a celebration, or even embraced as free marketing by media creators; this dovetails nicely with the current corporate slate of crossovers and multiverses. Everything is Kingdom Hearts now — but it didn’t used to be.

It’s hard to even imagine current-day Disney as an underdog, but in the early 2000s, the company was in the midst of an infamous slump. Disney’s partnership with Pixar had resulted in huge successes, like Toy Story in 1995 and A Bug’s Life in 1998, but Disney’s own animated films were underperforming. This led to strife between Pixar and Disney as the former increasingly carried the latter; the situation didn’t resolve until 2005, when longtime Disney CEO Michael Eisner got ousted and replaced by Bob Iger, who reportedly repaired Disney’s relationship with Pixar. This also led to Disney’s formal acquisition of Pixar in 2006.

The conception of the first Kingdom Hearts game happened during that rocky time period for Disney, at the very beginning of the year 2000. According to Kingdom Hearts director Tetsuya Nomura in an IGN interview, it all began when Square Enix game producer Shinji Hashimoto had a chance meeting with some Disney executives in an elevator. Whatever Hashimoto said to them, it worked, leading to the creative agreements necessary for the game to start development in February 2000. The game would take characters from Square Enix’s Final Fantasy series and mash them together with Disney icons, like Donald Duck and Goofy, but also characters from more modern animated movies like The Little Mermaid and Tarzan.

Back in 2000, crossovers were often difficult to negotiate on any massive scale. The closest parallels on the gaming side would be fighting games like X-Men vs. Street Fighter in 1996, or Nintendo’s Super Smash Bros. in 1999. These games felt like the best of fanfiction and “who would win” debates — gifts for players who’d spent years imagining what it would be like if their favorite characters met one another in battle.

Disney had a similar story with Who Framed Roger Rabbit? (1988), a movie in which Disney and Warner Bros. cartoon characters traded quips with one another, alongside live-action actors. This resulted in sequences like a piano battle between Disney’s Donald Duck and Warner Bros.’ Daffy Duck, with the latter hypocritically mocking the former over his “speech impediment.” That gag is only possible because both corporations allowed their characters to not only appear but to make fun of one another — as well as the animation industry itself, given the film’s larger critique of show business. Roger Rabbit was an expensive risk, but it paid off, in both box office returns and critical acclaim.

[...]

I actually like Kingdom Hearts 3, but maybe that’s because it reminds me of a past that’s long dead. Sora’s unyielding, boyish optimism in the face of impossible odds used to inspire me, even as a cold-hearted 19-year-old back in 2005. And the fact that Mickey Mouse was and still is supposed to be a bad-ass is never not going to make me laugh. Whenever I watch compilations of ridiculous clips from Kingdom Hearts, often shared by people attempting to mock the series, I roll my eyes because those people don’t understand that everyone who loves these games knows they’re ridiculous — and that’s the point. You can’t not laugh at Donald Duck standing next to Cloud Strife. It’s funny as shit. It rocks!

Except it also sucks. Or at least, it does now. It sucks because at some point, every major corporation realized that crossover fanfiction was a concept that could be monetized to hell and back. Modern-day crossovers don’t exist for the sake of showing audiences something more about who these characters could become if they had the chance to visit one another’s worlds. Instead, today’s crossovers seem designed to inspire a sense of recognition and little more than that. As Cameron Kunzelman put it in his analysis of Space Jam 2: “Tweety Bird ends up in The Matrix. The Road Runner and Wile E. Coyote hang out in the Fury Road universe … The problem here is not simply that the references happen, but that the references are made possible by a system of intellectual property concentration that encourages us to value things in terms of how much recognizable content is in them.”

Source: Polygon

(image via YouTube)

#video games #Final Fantasy #Star Wars #multiverse

[ialwaysknewyouwerepunk]

perfect now - a close reading

only pure and true love for this one. it’s soft and sweet because the one he wrote it for is and needs cheesy uncool romcom soundtrack-worthy affirmations and it’s the most wonderful thing oh my the flurries 

some album booklet art for your viewing pleasure

((just a warning for below: while the lyric analysis was kept fairly neutral and close to the words and their meaning, more and more parallels did ensure me larrying out by the time the analysis kicked off so if you’re not into that, you can skip this one!))

⟼ check out @bluewinnerangel​ ‘s magnificent post with all the parallels to 1d/h&l bc it’s exhaustive and was a source for mine <3 thank you again for your service <3 bc this song really is a fanpiece of every song that has been important to them throughout their career so far, whether they wrote it or not, and it’s honestly kinda impressive

SUMMARY

you’re sad and i love you so much i will do anything to make that undone but while you’re sad know that i sill very much love you and you’re also strong enough to conquer all of this on your own but i’ll be by your side anyway

lyric breakdown ft. the many parallels, incl. little things, through the dark and wmyb

what this says about louis, his partner and the relationship he is in

never gonna dance again frenzy

identity 

louis is a marvellous majestic sonofabitch basically <3

walls, track 10

～ little things “you still have to squeeze into your jeans, but you’re perfect to me”

You don’t feel pretty and it’s hard to miss

You don’t feel pretty and it’s hard to miss

later lyric: “like a neon sign” - i see through you trying to hide away your insecurities

I wish that you could see my point of view As someone staring back at you

“you” is also staring at him, but perhaps is too insecure to realise how mutual the adoration is

i wish i could get you out of your own negative spiral and give you a look at yourself from my perspective

～ wmyb “everyone else in the room can see it, everyone else but you” 

～ wmyb “right now i’m looking at you and i can’t believe you don’t know you’re beautiful”

～ little things “you never love yourself half as much as I love you, and you’ll never treat yourself right darling but I want you to. If I let you know, I’m here for you, maybe you’ll love yourself like I love you”

On Friday night when we’re all out I turn to you and you’re looking down And you don’t wanna dance I know you love to dance You never stop given half the chance

heavy echoes of kmm again, but the opposite: the “nightmare on the dance floor” doesn’t want to dance

when “you” is confident rlly not being subtle with who i think that is, they love to dance <-> tpwk “feeling good in my skin, i just keep on dancing”

“i know you love to dance” = i know what you love bc i love you

“given half the chance” 

～ tpwk “giving/given second chances”

given a chance tattoo, making another appearance (see below for more tattoo meltdowns)

Just keep your head up, love, keep your head up

term of endearment <3 

～ dlibyh

this album is full of encouragement to keep going and as much as it gives me life it ruins me 

Don’t hide away, don’t ever change

“be happy, proud”

～ “just hold on”

“pick someone who’s supportive”

Keep your head up, love, keep your head up Don’t look away, don’t look away

don’t look away from me

～ through the dark “and I can see your head is held in shame”

Cause everybody’s looking at you now, my, oh my

they have the stage to themselves / new career paths they’re doing on their own

could also mean ppl they’re going out with are looking at them, which “you” interprets as sth negative, which makes them self-conscious, while they’re actually admiring them bc they steal the scene

～ wmyb “you’re turning heads when you walk through the door”

I guess some queens don’t need a crown And I know why Even when your tears are falling down Still, somehow, you’re perfect now

“you” is royalty to louis, to put it simply 

they don’t need something on their head to make it known to everyone else - they’re a queen and everyone knows it

gendered: female - also used in drag contexts - the only time L has used any gendered word to identify his partner on the entire album (more on this below)

～ steal my girl "she's been my queen since we were sixteen" can't believe i forgot this one thank you @mortalenemiestolovers for reminding me!!!

～ falling

～ through the dark “you tell me that your tears are here to stay”

You never do, but if you asked me to I’ll tell the truth lying next to you

“you” never asks for affirmations directly, but by saying shit like their pants are too tight make it clear enough to L that they do need to hear once in a while that it’s not true

Cause you’re the only one when it’s said and done You make me feel like being someone 

Good to you even at your worst

～ always you

i love you so much you are a force of life to me, and even when you hate me i want more

～ drag me down “If I didn’t have you there would be nothing left, the shell of a man who could never be his best. If I didn’t have you, I’d never see the sun. You taught me how to be someone” (sung by louis first, harry second) 

～ through the dark “even if you scream and shout, it’ll come back to you and I’ll be here for you

You steal the scene and it’s unrehearsed

reference to working on a stage - their natural presence wins everyone over - that charisma is never manufactured

Don’t you wanna dance? Just a little dance I’ll never stop given half the chance

L keeps encouraging them, will also not pass by any chance to dance with them

Every insecurity, like a neon sign, as bright as day If you knew what you were to me You would never try to hide away

“it’s hard to miss”

L sees through them trying to hide their insecurities, pretend to be strong

～ through the dark “but I know you were only hiding”

SYNTHESIS

Perfect Now is not a fan favorite and I am so not here for that discourse, so please do not pester me with negativity about this chocolate drop of a song. 

As others have pointed out, the parallels with other songs written by Louis, Harry or for One Direction are extremely present. Especially Little Things is echoed loudly, but there’s so much more to be read, as you’ve seen. These are songs that are clearly near and dear to Louis, bc he wrote them or bc performing them was special, like with Little Things and What Makes You Beautiful. A lot of the same emotions come back in Louis’s writing, so much so that you can’t help but see the larger story behind it all. Throughout Walls you can hear him singing about not giving up and holding your head high despite hardships, and if you look back at his earlier writing, it’s always been there. Through the Dark is an early and striking example of this style of Louis song: you’re sad and i love you so much i will do anything to make that undone but while you’re sad know that i sill very much love you and you’re also strong enough to conquer all of this on your own but i’ll be by your side anyway 

basically through the dark’s chorus:

Oh, I will carry you over Fire and water for your love And I will hold you closer Hope your heart is strong enough When the night is coming down on you We will find a way Through the dark

It is very clear that Louis is faced with a partner - I can freely say it’s Harry now right? are the antis gone by now? i think so - that struggles with his body, with his identity, with how he wants to present himself vs how opinions on that might push him down and dampen his spirit. Louis, always the supportive boyfriend, then tries his best to make him see the light, while keeping that space for his sadness, his struggles, or their joint struggles. Accept the sadness but don’t lose your heart to it.

I’ve linked @bluewinnerangel​ ‘s post at the start of this post, but I need to stress how good it is once more as I also shamelessly insert a screenshot from it here bc it makes me feel a lot and summarizes perfectly just how deeply Perfect Now is woven into the history of their lives, relationship and especially “you”s/Harry’s personal struggle with their identity/body/confidence...

Because yes, i absolutely think these tattoos are being echoed in the song. “Never gonna dance again” as a lyric and then as a tattoo on Harry’s legs like shackles around his ankles represents the sensation of shame, of being stuck, bc of your desires, bc of your sexuality. Obviously we can never know why Harry got the tattoo, as in what experience pushed him to choose those lyrics or what exactly he recognizes in himself, but it’s safe to say it’s about the struggles of being queer and navigating relationships with that identity and with others.

Most importantly, the sense of shamelessly dancing, dancing like no one’s watching, dancing together with your lover, as a celebration of self, life, love, is the key here. Harry got that tattoo ages ago, at a time when he undoubtedly felt way more stuck. When he couldn’t dance freely the way he wanted to and with whom he wanted to. Perfect Now is a reminder to him, an encouragement to still dance if he wants to, no matter what people say or think. Significantly, then, Harry’s own Treat People With Kindness heavily features that same sentiment, but in an extremely positive light: i have found a place (in life and in myself) where i feel like i have given and was given second chances and now i dance bc i finally feel good in my skin.

Louis has obviously been there from the start, or at least from when or before Harry properly started experimenting with/questioning how he likes to present and how he identifies as. Before he ever dared to consider pulling on a pair of women’s skinny jeans, never mind a ball gown. Louis has seen him limit himself as well as being limited by others ofc and has always seemed to have been there, with a secure hand on Harry’s back, to encourage him. Even at a time when boys wearing nail polish or skirts was unthinkable. Just remember how much encouragement Harry needed when growing out his hair; Louis literally joined him. yes this might make me cry okay i need to stop bc i’m going off track and this is just becoming a larry breakdown while i was trying to hype up this beautiful song. 

What I’m trying to say is: Louis has always seen all of Harry. He’s always had his back, no matter what. He’s loved every part of him. And now, on a completely gender neutral album, in the sweetest, softest song off of the entire thing, Louis puts in the word “queen”, and that is so very deliberate it makes me want to scream. It’s Louis confirming his love again and again while affirming the multitudes contained by Harry, including everything involving his gender journey. brb crying

It’s a raw Louis, an honest, sweet, kind, loving partner, and both of them are fucking lucky to have each other, and I also wish that all of us end up in a caring and wholesome relationship like that. I truly do.

#wow i thought this one was gonna be easier #i always do why do i think that??? #every time i look closer into l's lyrics i see more depth #this is all just a perfect mushy mess so it's on brand for me #perfect now analysis #lyric analysis #my posts #parallels

[ladychlo]

Hi, I don’t know how old the post was because, tumblr, but I saw your post about how real people can’t queerbait and 100% agree in general but how do you think this applies to celebrities who are obviously marketing themselves but are also, real people?

Hi anon, I'm gonna try to break it down for you, and if anyone disagrees with me or has another take on it, please feel free to share it with me. well first of all the term queerbaiting is originally elaborated to critique the marketing techniques of some production companies that use homoerotic subtext to attract a queer audience using clues and hints only to deceive them afterward and throw the "no homo" at the end. you're not gonna find the term in a formal Dictionary but it was commonly used by fandoms in sites like LiveJournal here is Fanlore definition:

Queer baiting (or queerbaiting) is a term used to describe the perceived attempt by advertisers or canon creators to draw in a queer audience and/or slash fans by implying or hinting at a gay relationship that will never actually be depicted. "Queerbaiting" is most often — but not always — applied to television and film.

and this is one by Ilana Masad for the guardian:

Queerbaiting is a term that exists mostly in fan communities and refers to the writers or creators of a world (whether of a movie franchise, a book series, or a TV show) using injections of homoeroticism and romance to draw an audience seeking LGBTQ representation, while not alienating a wider audience who may not want to see a gay relationship depicted.

the harmfulness of queetbaiting is that it perpetuates heteronormativity, it shows it purposefully as if it was some kind of a misunderstanding, a joke on how queer audience is "delusional" to think that a character can be queer and basically invalidate queer reading.

queer reading is "an interpretation of discourse. It is not about finding a subtext created by the author, but rather about relating the text to the queer experience. It is, mostly, a reading from a critical point of view."

in a cis-normative and a heteronormative society, we were taught to assume straightness and cisness are the default. So whether you want it or not, you have expectations that a certain person -artist or not- is CisHet. so when that artist starts hinting otherwise, your expectations are distorted and they're contradicting the normalcy and ofc you're not gonna assume "oh they're not straight, cool" but you gonna assume they're using it for profit, dismissing the possibility of them just being queer.

the world is not queer-friendly, most social structures are inherently cis and het normative and actually in so sooo many cases is actively queer erasing. take for example bi-erasure, bisexual folks are basically under this queer erasure, and they are more seen for their "heterosexual" side which is bullshit because they're not straight they're QUEER!!

as much as you cant assume an artist is cishet you can either put them in the same level as the industry as a whole. Queerbaiting and Pinkwashing are not used for individuals, an individual is a human being who feels anger, terror, pain, love, who can think and so much more. that's why humans are by nature and culture complexes and nuanced, and can't be just reduced to mere profit. you should also see if they have sufficient advantages, resources, or power within the system to come out basically!!

assuming someone is queer is not "disrespectful" nor is it "wrong". while the definition of queer coding is also linked to the fictional characters writing. Queer coding itself as self-expression under systematic oppression is not new!! expressing one's sexuality and gender through clothes and artistic choices is something you can trace back looong long time ago, this blog made by a lesbian dress historian is VERY interesting. She analysis lesbian history through the lens of clothing and fashion!!

assuming a person might be queer coding through clothes and fashion choices, through their art and artistic creations is not something "bad", you're not delusional!! you're reading situations and relating to them. AND homoerotic interpretation is not wrong or negative.

Personally (you can disagree with me on this if you want) If someone tells me that assuming people are queer by their clothing choices or mannerism or choice of expressions and language and how they present social façade is queerphobic I will STRONGLY disagree because, self-expression through these things is a very very defining part of Queer Community, they re an important side of queer culture and as in the blog I linked above, it is very common and important for queer folks to find ways to code their appearances to express who they are in a system that does not represent them and to get noticed by people from their community.

Patterns in behavior intentional or not intentional is a real thing.

this video might help as well: The Evolution Of Queerbaiting: From Queercoding to Queercatching

reference to this

#sorry anon for the wait i had to make a cuppa tea #queerbaiting #queercoding #queer representation #queer reading #harry's image #louis' image #queer

[arotechno]

re: Moses Sumney

Originally, I wasn’t going to say anything, because I have a significant audience and I didn’t want to put a spotlight on something if nobody was paying attention to it. But I’ve seen more and more about this, so I decided to say something.

I am not going to boost the original post that’s going around that seemed to start all of this, because I think it’s disingenuous and I don’t want to spread it around any further. In fact, I may regret bringing this up at all, but I digress. For context: some folks have recently learned that Moses Sumney, who wrote the album “Aromanticism”, does not explicitly self-identify as aro. Many are upset about this, and feel that by invoking the name of aromanticism as his album title and leading people to believe that he identified as such, he is profiting off of the aro experience in some way, or using us for his aesthetic.

I deeply understand the frustration I am seeing re: Moses Sumney right now. It is incredibly disheartening to see that a celebrity you thought shared your identity doesn’t, and I think people’s discomfort with Sumney using the title of Aromanticism and leading people to believe he was aro is warranted. While he never explicitly identified himself as aro, naturally people are going to assume as such when you allude to those experiences so heavily and name your album after it. I think all these feelings are valid and I don’t want anyone to feel like they aren’t allowed to feel pissed or let down.

However: I would strongly caution us against this kneejerk reaction some folks seem to have had to cancel Moses Sumney over this. The original post I alluded to frames Sumney’s actions as exploitative in some way, as though he were intentionally profiting off of the aro community somehow. Here are my thoughts on the matter:

1. The aro community is not exactly in a position right now where talking about us really earns you any clout. Regardless, Sumney has stated that he turned down opportunities meant for queer artists because he does not identify as queer. I believe him; it’s certainly okay if you don’t, but to suggest that he has profited off of being perceived as aro seems unsupported to me, given that many critics and reviewers of the album have willfully misinterpreted it anyway. There are very few interviews with Sumney, to my knowledge, that seem to entertain the possibility that he might be aro as anything positive.

2. While it is understandable to be upset with Sumney for not being clear about whether or not he identified as aro when the album was released, it is unfair to expect him to use the labels we would like him to if he does not want to, even if the experiences he has described are tangentially similar to our own. This is particularly important given that Sumney is a Black man, and as he himself has stated, Black folks are often not given the same agency over their identity and orientation that white people are. Especially when he is a public figure--Sumney is a Black artist who deviates from the heteronormative standard, regardless of how he labels himself (something he himself has explained), and thus he was always going to be boxed in and picked apart by media outlets looking for someone or something new to sensationalize for clicks. At the end of the day, while being a celebrity, he’s still just a person, and he doesn’t owe anyone constant corrections or explanations of his identity or the use of labels he does not want to use.

3. “Aromanticism”, the album, was deeply influential in the aro community at the time of its release in 2017 and remains as such for many to this day. Many arospec folks resonated with it in some way or another, and frankly just seeing someone in the public eye acknowledge the very existence of aromanticism and create art related to aro or aro-adjacent experiences was groundbreaking for many of us during a time when the word “aromantic” hadn’t even been added to the dictionary yet. And that’s something else important to note--even if Moses Sumney doesn’t identify as aromantic, the experiences he talks about in interviews and alludes to on the album are aro-adjacent ones. To that point:

4. I understand that many feel like their identity has been used as an aesthetic. Even if that wasn’t Sumney’s intent, I think it’s valid to feel that way. But if we don’t allow anyone who doesn’t explicitly self-identify as aro to even invoke the name of aromanticism in their art, we will be hard-pressed to find anyone willing to talk about us at all. Maybe I would feel differently if we were in a place where talking about aro issues was the latest trend and Sumney could truly profit off of us, or if the album was a complete willful misrepresentation of aro experiences. But I don’t think either of those things are true, and I am troubled by the fact that an album that has been lauded as a piece of iconic aro media is suddenly being cast aside as exploitative and bad simply because Sumney doesn’t actively share our identity labels (a fact that was publicly accessible long before this, just for what it’s worth, though I don’t blame anyone for not knowing that).

Again, I want to reiterate that I don’t intend to invalidate anyone’s feelings on the matter. I share some of those sentiments myself. But Sumney’s work (both on the album itself and in interviews and statements he has given surrounding it) to challenge amatonormativity should not be discounted. Personal feelings about Sumney’s handling of the situation notwithstanding, the release of the album was in and of itself a net positive for the aro community. I personally don’t think him not identifying as aromantic discounts that in any way, and I fail to see the issue with that.

tl;dr Please don’t take anyone’s interpretations of Moses Sumney’s words and actions as gospel (including my own!). “Aromanticism” is an album that resonates with many aro experiences, written from his own experiences, and its positive influence doesn’t disappear once people realize that Sumney isn’t aromantic. By all means, feel however you want to feel about it and about him--but I would discourage anyone from jumping to conclusions about Moses Sumney’s intentions and cancelling him/his work because of it.

#aro #aromantic #aro community #moses sumney #long post #op #sorry i'm not putting a read more on this because i have decided it's required reading

[thetiredstuff]

oh same here, I've blocked dozens and dozens of destiel blogs over the last few days. basically anyone wishing death or other horrible things on jensen (and jarpad, I mean, I dont like the guy either, but that is going way too far), anyone fantasizing about and plotting ways to make jensen suffer, anyone claiming he is a rabid homophobe, anyone hoping to destroy his career... and all the people gleefully celebrating that "everyone" has turned on jensen now because they've always hated jensen and always knew he was a horrible person etc.

I absolutely cannot stand that kind of gross mob mentality and I find it hilarious that they all think they're the most woke and progressive people in this fandom, when they don't have a shred of kindness and consideration between them. they're the ones who would have called for people to be burned at the sake in the middle ages (and I've literally seen them wish for exactly that for jensen and jared) and they don't even realize it.

Yeah exactly this! I also agree about the wishing (severe) bodily harm. My stance on my presence online is: would I say it to their face? And I would absolutely say all of what I've said to jp's face. But I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I wished bodily harm on someone. I'd rather they see some consequences for their actions.

Although, I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't disclose that I definitely sometimes wish for people to step on Lego or maybe fall down some stairs. Not badly but ya know. But that's the bad person in me.

But yes people have definitely gone off the rails with what happened this past weekend.

And I am sick of people coming for Jensen every chance they get. The loved calling him "fruity", which already irked me to death because that is an insult that is still not been reclaimed by the queer men it's been used against and almost all of the peopel using that insult as a "joke" had no business using it in the first place.

And then when he doesn't dance exactly like they want him to, they turn on him in an instant. Literally everyone says stuff they are not supposed to say, or puts their foot in their mouth, or encounters situations where they should have said something but didn't. Because we aren't perfect. Humans are not perfect.

But seeing how humans react to missing the mark, to putting their foot in their mouth, to not standing up when needed, to saying something they shouldn't have, that is incredibly important. And the context.

People keep coming for Jensen over his "open for interpretation" but guess what? He literally cannot confirm nor deny how Dean feels about Cas. Why? Because we never saw in the show how Dean felt.

The contracts that they signed basically boil down to: the show has ended so you cannot add to the existing material. You cannot add something of dialogue, or feelings, or stories about your character. You cannot speak in the name of your character. Which is why Misha had to stipulate during his panel "THAT THIS IS NOT CANON" He yelled it very loudly before answering about Cas in Heaven.

So technically, yes, Jensen can answer the question if he stipulates that what he is about to say is not canon. But it could jeopardize any projects with WB or in the SPN universe down the line. And it could jeopardize his potential career if he doesn't take contracts seriously.

What counts to me is that over the years, there have been so many queer fans who shared their interactions with Jensen and all of them have been positive. Haven't seen a negative one yet. Besides that, we've heard about his commitment to LGBTQ+ organizations. He doesn't do it for PR because the only reason we know about it is because those organizations or those in attendance reveal it later on.

And now he's started up a company with someone who is making waves for LGBTQ+ talent in Hollywood. Moreover, in every article mentioning Chaos Machine, it mentions the LGBTQ+ efforts of this person. A press release only ever reveals the most important information. The fact that her LGBTQ+ efforts have been mentioned in every single article means that this was not only in the press release but was high up in it as well because the information higher up in a press release is the most important one.

And about progressiveness: you cannot progress if you are not given the chances and space to do so. Being progressive is learning and unlearning. It is messing up constantly and trying to do better and educating yourself.

From the tidbits we've heard of Jensen, he genuinely seems like a nice guy. A little too nice towards jp if you ask me because he should have been facing consequences a long time ago but it is what it is because Jensen isn't the only one who is around jp's orbits so that responsibility shouldn't be solely placed on him (especially not since it seems like he no longer considers jp a friend)

Jensen has shown his willingness of learning and has altered his answers before after learning new information. People also seem to forget that he is shy. Like he might sing on stage and be an actor but he is a shy dude. He doesn't like solo panels, although he has clearly gotten a lot better at, but if you don't like solo panels, you also don't like due panels because the problem isn't being alone on stage, it's that he is shy and seems to get anxious.

Having to be perfect while being shy or anxious is literally an impossible situation. And I'm really fucking sick at all the Jensen-is-a-homophobe stuff.

When I got into this fandom, the Jensen-is-a-homophobe-stuff was so omnipresent, I genuinely thought for a second he was and it gave me just a ton of sadness. Not because I parasocialized with him but because I loved the show and I don't want homophobic actors play my favorite characters.

Jensen just can never catch a break. People are just lying in wait until he puts a toe out of the perfect mold and then the minefield they've layed around him explodes with the most vile stuff you can imagine. I'm sick of it. Also hilariously hypocritical how so many people are saying the most vile stuff about Ackles when a ton of them keep on following someone who is phobic against at least two queer identities within the LGBTQ+ community.

sorry this is so long, i kinda pop off when it comes to this subject lol.

#jensen #anon #ask

[nonbinaryresource]

hi. i wanted to ask whether or not it’s ok to take comfort in a person that has not officially come out as trans but has included many forms of gender expression in their work? i’m trans and when i listened to this artist’s work (harry styles - she & fine line) i connected with the songs immediately? i found a lot of people in the community who too connected to the songs and interpreted the lyrics as a struggle with one’s gender identity. at first i was against calling harry trans because i thought it was wrong, but then after reading master posts i discovered that he constantly portrays gender in his work (using the trans flag on his album cover; being ok with his friends referring to him with she/her, miss, ‘sue’ instead of ‘harry’, and sis; his obsession with babies and especially wanting to get pregnant; relating himself only to female artists; etc.) and now i’m really confused. it feels comforting as a fan to relate to him and i, and a lot of other fans from the community, sometimes refer to him with he/she/they instead of he/him (he never said his pronouns are he/him). is that wrong? every time my (trans) friends and i refer to him with pronouns other than he/him or tell people not to assume he’s cis as he never specified that, other (usually cis. a trans fan called me transphobic and told me to stop seeking validation from cis white men.) fans will start calling us transphobic and delusional and attacking us to the point we had anxiety attacks over it? i’m just really confused right now. i don’t want to misgender anyone but i don’t understand why relating to someone who, from their actions, could be part of the community is wrong. i’m not out to anyone irl and sometimes i wish people caught on to the little things i do and recognise that i am part of the community. i don’t understand why people keep shutting down the idea the harry could be trans when he never said he was cis and was ok being referred to as she.

he has previously said that there are no lines between what's masculine and what's feminine for him anymore. i'm sorry this is so long and thank you

(You also sent in the song lyrics - thanks for the easy reference! - but I’m clipping those for length reasons.)

Disclaimer before I dig in: I am not a Harry Styles stan, I know very little about him, most of what I am going to say specifically about him is stuff I researched about specifically to answer this ask. I want to speak mostly generally to your question.

Okay, so you posed a pretty succinct, straight forward question. “i wanted to ask whether or not it’s ok to take comfort in a person that has not officially come out as trans but has included many forms of gender expression in their work?“ However, there’s also a lot of context to this ask that makes things not so straight forward, and there are several distinct issues touched upon here I want to delve into. But it seems a good a starting place as any to start with the direct question you asked.

Yes, of course it’s okay to find your own meaning in art and role models and relate to art your way from your perspective based on your experience. In fact, that’s nearly the entire purpose of art! And it makes sense too, that we as social creatures would look up to and be inspired by celebrities, artists, mentors, role models, etc. Feeling connected to and less alone because someone in the spotlight plays with gender presentation like you might or want to makes a lot of sense!

However, we have to remember that A) sometimes art is just art, and B) someone being in the spotlight doesn’t mean we actually know or understand them or are/should act familiar with them.

As an example, a couple years back, Will Jay released a song called “Never Been in Love” that pretty much exploded with aros and aces and became a bit of an anthem for a lot of us. Many wondered if he was aspec himself and there was a lot of queries about it (and I saw quite a few blogs reminding folk that they were allowed to relate to the song even if it meant something different to Will Jay or he wasn’t actually aspec). Earlier this year, he released the song “Lies” where he admits that he was writing songs he thought people would relate to and he actually had been in love even before writing “Never Been In Love”. That should do nothing to diminish how meaningful the song was to people, though! If we related to the song, we related to the song, and if it was meaningful and made us feel seen and understood, that’s great! A lot of times, art is personal, but sometimes art is just an exploration.

This concept applies even more to people themselves. It is soooo easy to idolize and romanticize people you’ve never actually met and really only see the persona they want you to see. Yes, they share personal information with the world and they experience a general lack of privacy that makes you feel like yeah, you really know who they are. But how can you really, personally, intimately know someone without interacting with them, chatting with them, getting to know them one on one? It’s fine to have role models and feel represented by and relate to a celebrity - just do not lose sight of the fact that what you’re feeling is personal feeling on your own end. It’s not something that this celebrity has actually built with you.

To put this another way: it is fine to headcanon fictional characters, but it’s not okay to headcanon real people.

Now, what I’m building up to here is that there are a lot of assumptions I am seeing - from both sides - that we cannot truly know because all we know is what Harry [or anyone] chooses to share with us. I’d like to break this down by going through some specific points.

at first i was against calling harry trans because i thought it was wrong

Okay, there are two sides to this.

1) It is wrong to apply a gender label/descriptor to someone without their permission.

2) In a cisnormative society, “cis” is the default gender label/descriptor to apply to everyone, and that’s equally wrong, so I get why it feels like a rebellion of the system to go “well, there are Reasons they could be trans, so I’m just going to go ahead and call them trans”.

We should get away from automatically labeling everyone as “cis”. However, the way we fix this isn’t to just decide we get to apply whatever label/descriptor to someone we want.

If someone hasn’t clarified or specified their gender (and you can’t/it isn’t a good or safe idea to ask them), it’s the safest bet to go by what they seem to be majority being called or what you can find of them referring to themself as.

In some cases, when someone seems to be specifically avoiding labeling themselves or uncomfortable with labeling themselves, it may be most comfortable for you to also avoid labeling them just as much as possible.

being ok with his friends referring to him with she/her, miss, ‘sue’ instead of ‘harry’, and sis; his obsession with babies and especially wanting to get pregnant; relating himself only to female artists; etc.)

It’s worth considering - is this something for friends only? Or is it open to fans and other public sectors?

Usually if something is for friends only, it’ll be kept out of public eye, but if only friends are doing this, is this something that is only being shared with you or is it something you’re entitled to as well?

Aaaaaaaaalso, it has to be pointed out that it’s binarist and cisnormative in it’s own way to equate different names/pronouns automatically with being trans or being a specific trans identity. Wanting to get pregnant? Do you know how many cis women I’ve heard go on and on about wanting a penis so they can pee standing up (like... all of them anytime we’re outside or camping)? Plenty of cis people use pronouns you might not expect! You don’t have to be trans/nonbinary to use multiple or ‘atypical’ pronouns. Cis people are allowed to use other pronouns as well! They’re allowed to have names typically associated with other genders! Not all gender nonconforming or genderqueer people/people queering gender are trans! Not everybody exploring their gender nor gender presentation is trans!

not to assume he’s cis as he never specified that

It’s great to not assume someone is cis! But that doesn’t automatically make them trans.

i don’t want to misgender anyone but i don’t understand why relating to someone who, from their actions, could be part of the community is wrong.

Do you specifically, absolutely need to gender someone in order to relate to them?

i don’t understand why people keep shutting down the idea the harry could be trans when he never said he was cis and was ok being referred to as she.

I’ve only recently seen a tiny bit of this ‘discourse’ around on twitter, but what I see is a few issues/points:

A) It’s not up to us to claim someone as trans if they have not come out as trans. Coming out is an extremely personal choice and should be up to each individual. “Claiming” them is basically dragging them into something that very well may be not theirs. And if it is theirs, why would you want to steal that moment of getting to determine and declare that away from them?

B) We are all so done with cis, able-bodied white folk being prioritized above the rest of the queer community!!! There are actual, legitimate, out trans people that can be your trans role models and they’re being shoved to the back of the closet in favor of a privileged, white Schrödinger’s Trans. Let’s uplift our actual community instead of getting stuck on someone who may or may not be a part of community - and may not even want to be a part of it!

All that being said, I do want to say something really quickly on Harry himself because it ties back into the assumptions we’ve been talking about. Harry’s sexuality has long been a question on fans and journalists minds, and Harry has pretty consistently made it clear that he’s not really interested in labels or boxes. Harry’s gender is not something that has been asked about, talked about, or answered on much. And his comment on masculinity and femininity? Let’s remember that, like pronouns, masculinity and femininity don’t automatically or inherently relate to one specific gender or not. And, quite frankly, it is faucet of toxic masculinity and cissexism to equate a gnc man/man in a dress with being trans. Men are allowed to wear dresses and makeup and heels! Men are allowed to be soft and nurturing and to cry! Cis or trans, men are allowed to be these things, and arguing that they’re trans simply for doing or being any of these does continue to enforce dangerous and strict views of the gender binary.

Okay, it feels like I kinda put you through the wringer, so I want to go back and reiterate: it is 100% valid to relate to and feel connected to/inspired by someone on the basis of their presentation and gender exploration. It is not valid to claim ownership over their identity because of this. It is possible for two people to experience same or similar things and yet come to different conclusions about themselves!

If Harry Styles as an icon is important to you, I’m glad you can have that! But not everyone will or has to share your connection, and the only one actually qualified to speak on Harry’s gender is Harry himself. Harry could be trans, but it’s his right and his right only to claim that label. Any assuming we do is just that: an assumption. And I want you to be careful with your own feelings getting too attached to the image of Harry you’ve built up in your own head only to potentially have them shattered if Harry decides to speak on things and it turns out his feelings don’t mean what you thought.

Your identity is valid regardless of how Harry Styles feels or identifies. You feeling validated and seen and represented by Harry’s actions is valid regardless of how Harry Styles feels or identifies. It’s great to have role models and be inspired by people, but remember that at the end of the day, you need to be able to rely on yourself to keep up your ego and determine your sense of self.

~Pluto

#long post #mod pluto #identity #role models #discourse #gender #gender binary #cisnormativity #cissexism #mod tera #Anonymous

[phynali]

more spn discussions, just skip this post y’all

 @queerbluebird​ thanks so much for engaging with my post/reply! i really enjoyed reading your response and i have a long reply here.

i’m responding to your post/reply here rather than reblogging it because honestly that thread is - so long. so very long. 

so first - 

i agree there is a difference between entitlement and what i would call, not promise, but instead “narrative follow-through”. A story that completely lacks narrative follow-through does end up feeling disappointing, or frustrating, or rage-inducing, depending on what’s happened. to me there’s a fundamental difference between critiquing a story based on follow-through and bad storytelling (which your post aims to do), versus say, creating hashtag campaigns about a character being silenced because and spreading conspiracy theories about a bad dub (among other things honestly).

and also - queerbaiting totally sucks, we definitely do agree on that.

where we disagree, i think are these two core points:

i do not see the narrative build-up that demands a follow-through. i do not see supernatural as having built up to the story that many destiel shippers seem to think was there, and no one has ever been able to point out to me any actual textual reasons that do craft that narrative build-up  

i fundamentally do not believe that destiel was ever a queerbait. queerbait involves active intent on the part of creators to tease a ship or queer representation in order to draw in $ from queer audiences without ever making it canon, so as not to alienate straight audiences. so, refering to point 1., i do not see the canon text as having laid the groundwork for a queerbait and those romantic tropes, at least not at any point in the past 7 years. and beyond the canon, the writers and producers and jensen ackles all indicated dean was straight, and that they were not writing a romance. if anyone queerbaited the fans, it was misha collins who kept teasing the possibility, and personally i would argue that was irresponsible of him. but that’s a different discussion altogether and tends to piss people off when it’s framed as such, because misha means a lot to them and it hurts to see the man who validated their feelings get criticized for the manner in which he validated them. so i’m gonna leave that aside.

beyond that, I want to engage with some of your specific quotes:

Supernatural loves to say “wait for it.” And I don’t think it’s entitled to feel betrayed if an author uses their story to say “wait for it” in order to convince you to stick with their story and then delivers the opposite after you do.

May i ask, where was the “wait for it” with destiel? this ties in directly to the queerbaiting. i indicated in my post/reply that while i see it from cas, there’s been little to no hint of any reciprocation of feelings from dean, and if anything the past 7 or so years have driven the point home that it isn’t happening. i personally am not able to see the “Wait for it” and that was the point of my question. without the “Wait for it”, i also can’t see the queerbait. 

I asked for specifics and while i totally get not having the spoons, you provided a few:

(off the top of my head for Dean though, the mixtape, his response to Cas’ death at the end of 12, subsequent grief arc, and reaction to Cas’ return in the front half of 13 rank highly. His reaction to Lucifer’s prank call in 15x19 might rate, but maybe just because it’s so recent.)

not trying to be unkind here, but i quite genuinely don’t see any of these examples as framing cas and dean in a romantic light, or as hinting at a “what if”. the mixtape is like.... okay, maybe. i had read that as being symbolic of something else, but i can see wanting to read it from a shipping lens. (i don’t however think i’d read it as baiting or “what if” - it was quite textually not framed that way. shipping, 100%, but canon build-up, not for me).

for the other examples -- grieving for someone you consider family? and being happy when they come back? that’s not shippy to me. i mean - contrast the grief he showed over cas’s death compared to his grief over, say, mary? or, less extreme, charlie? and nothing compared to how off the rails he goes when sam is dead or he thinks sam is. so i -- i just can’t see those as creating a narrative that demands a follow-through. and when your friend who is dead calls your phone? of course you hop to the door - i don’t know what is romantic about that. sam would’ve hopped just as quick if “cass” had called his phone instead.

and look - i see what is fun to ship about all that. if i shipped it, i’d be happily collecting these moments with a smile and grinning to myself about how cute they are and much they mean. but shipping it vs. it being romantically framed in the canon are two fundamentally different things. shipping doesn’t imply narrative buy-in or deliberation from the creator.

moving on, you also spoke at length about 15x18:

15x18 made the sort of statement that drew back even people who did exactly what OP said they should do, turning off the TV years ago. It wasn’t a quiet “if you’re still watching, keep waiting,” so much as a shouted “hey we’re gonna do this thing, watch this!”

i guess destiel fans vs. those of us who don’t ship it really see this as fundamentally different. because you discuss that moment as one which requires follow-through, and say that if this were heteronormative m/f love declaration, there would be that expectation of follow-through. not necessarily reciprocity, but more - more conversation, more acknowledgment, more something.

(i mean - if there was more, but that more was “hey i love you too but only platonically, sorry man” would that be better?)

but no - i actually just... disagree with your point on that front. i can see why you feel the way you do and i acknowledge that it can be read as the start of a conversation. to me though -- and clearly, now that the finale is out, how the writers saw it -- that was actually the end of a conversation. the end of, like you pointed out, 12 years. a 12-year conversation that ends in a gorgeous declaration of love, and specifically how love isn’t about being together, it’s simply about being - it’s about the fact that you love someone, and that feeling alone is the most beautiful thing in existence.

to me, that declaration can only be written and interpreted as an ending.  a sacrifice, a declaration, and a goodbye. so - while i kind of expected seeing more people in episode 20 and realize that didn’t happen largely due to covid - i’m not disappointed we didn’t see cas, because that culmination of his narrative (and then knowing he was with jack, after, rebuilding the heaven that he rebelled against and finally completing his narrative circle by fixing all the problems with it alongside the good god he sought to find all along) is kind of perfect. 

and i genuinely don’t think if cas was in a female vessel this entire time that that would change. maybe some audience members would feel differently, but i think many of us would see it for the end it was nonetheless. there’s plenty of stories with m/f ships that are one-sided and that character sacrifices themselves for the person they love, so i don’t see why this would be any different (except the bury your gays issue, but that’s a whole other and very real conversation about media tropes).

moving on to the series finale.

As many people have pointed out in praise of 15x20, Sam is the absolute most important thing in Dean’s life, his priority above anything and everything… And yet there, at the actual end of the world, Dean ignores Sam’s call and instead cries over the loss of Castiel. Dean’s loss of Castiel plays in tandem with the loss of literally the whole world. But we’re not to take that as a promise that Castiel means more to this story, or to Dean, than a couple seconds of wistfulness after the dust settles?

I... yeah. i don’t see what this even is arguing. that dean taking a minute to himself to grieve his best friend, who just died in part because dean decided to go hunt down billie (who was literally dying anyway). he’s hurting. there’s nothing about this that’s a promise - it’s an end. it’s grief. it’s the horror of losing someone you care about, and the silence that comes after. it’s fundamentally human in it’s pain. and we, the audience, are invited to grieve with dean.

so I mean - of course cas means more to this story. of course he’s meant more than a few seconds of grief, after 12 years. but just because that’s the last time we see him on screen doesn’t mean we don’t value his story, and celebrate how it too came full circle.

You mention cas as a sort of avatar for a different potential ending for the brothers, and highlight him representing:

An ending where higher powers stop yanking them around and they get to actually live in the life they’ve built for themselves.

So while i never considered cas an avatar for that, i do think we all wanted the brothers to have their freedom. “finally free.” so we can agree on wanting that end. but we disagree on whether it was delivered, i guess? because i feel it was.

you also talk about what you and many other fans conceivably wanted a happier ending to look like. can i -- i’m going to be totally honest. i have not seen a single person who’s critiquing the end saying “i just wanted sam and dean to grow old hunting together with their dog until they retire together and die of old age.”

would that be satisfying to those who are mad about the end? i personally don’t think so, but maybe my opinion is being coloured by the most vitriolic fans i’ve seen. if sam and dean got to have the life they wanted free of chuck, and dean didn’t die, and they kept going (or retired and opened a bar together!). maybe sam still had a kid, but again because romance wasn’t the point, the wife wasn’t important and they left her blurry still so we could interpret ourselves if she was a wife or a co-parent or a surrogate or what. maybe dean has a kid too, with a similar question-mark-wife. maybe we get a few images of them having a holiday with jodie and the girls. and then getting to heaven together in old age, greeting bobby with a beer, and going for a drive.

would that be an end that wouldn’t cause fandom uproar? i would enjoy it, soft an slightly discordant as it would be to me. i prefer the ending we got, bittersweet and heartbreaking though it was, but i wouldn’t be taking to social media to yell about it if we got a softer epilogue, so to speak.

on the other hand... would that still not be enough, at least not for so many of the angry fans? i’m genuinely unsure. it seems to me that so much of the ire is about destiel itself, even if people are pretending it’s about more and other things than that. not everyone, but like, a big portion of them. which leads me to believe that nothing short of dean and cas at least interpretable as together is what they wanted. if every other single thing about the existing finale was the same except that cas was the one to greet dean instead of bobby, and even with the same basic dialogue, without discussing the confession, but they have a lingering smile, and dean leaves to drive and wait for sam with the promise he’ll see cas later - 

if everything else stayed the same except who greeted dean, i genuinely don’t believe i’d be seeing almost any critique of the finale on my dash. maybe i’m cynical, but that’s where i’m at.

which is part of why i really struggle to believe that people are engaging in good faith when they critique the finale. because i feel like if it offered them either a) everything they’re purportedly asking for but still no cas and zero hint of destiel, vs. b) every other thing they claim to hate stays the same except there’s a wink and nod to destiel - i believe they would take the wink and nod. 

   On to some other things you raised:

But how can you know to walk away from a tragedy if the tragedy says “the end won’t be a tragedy, keep watching” right up until it ends in tragedy?

Oh i Get this. I hate thinking i’m consuming fun media only for it to rip my heart out at the end. i’ve literally - well, i’ve had a very unpleasant and distressing experience of this, actually. so i get it. also the opposite: i sometimes feel disappointed when i’m consuming media that is gripping and intense and painful, but then the end is too easy, too soft and happy?

BUT - supernatural never pretended it would have a happy end? the end was so. much. happier. than i ever expected. the Swan Song end was going to have Sam in hell being tortured by lucifer for eternity. according to something i read which i am fundamentally too lazy to link because who knows if it would have turned out this way but -- kripke was apparently going to have Dean jump in the cage with him at that end, if the series ended on S5? the ‘horror’ ending. completely devastating sacrifice for mankind (sam), and completely devastating sacrifice for his brother (dean). just -- oof. even if that wasn’t the plan and the series would’ve ended as the episode did - sam was still in the cage and cas was off waging war in heaven and dean was living every day knowing he was alive and his brother was being tortured.

i’m sorry if you thought you were watching a happier show. i know how much that hurts. that doesn’t mean the story was actually that happy though. sometimes, it’s on us as consumers to acknowledge we were misreading the media. i’ve had to do this. it’s hard, it hurts, but it helps you consume things healthier. i’ve had to do this growing recently, and i’m better off for it.

regarding the specific manner of dean’s death - that’s really not what my post was about and i’m not gonna address it here. i’ve talked about it elsewhere and so have others, and @lovetincture‘s original post spelled it out beautifully, in how human it was. i have feelings on how and why i loved dean’s death, and why it was the absolute opposite of what Chuck’s ending was and what he wanted (no blaze of glory), but i’ll leave those for another time.

They cast aside all the relationships they’ve built. [...] They lost/walked away from the life and home they built in the bunker. Dean got a season 1 death. Sam got a season 1 life.

I feel that there is a very huge difference between regression and progression when it comes to cyclical storytelling. And that difference seems to be missing from the ongoing discussions i’ve seen about this in fandom.

Coming full circle to season 1 does not at all mean that the development is ‘undone’ or that the story has regressed or that anything has been lost or destroyed. It can mean that, if the storyteller doesn’t know what the hell they’re doing, but in this case i don’t (personally) feel it’s a fair critique.

Dean’s death might parallel his s1 not-quite death from Faith, but the s15 result of that death is night and day. Dean is no longer alone. Dean does not go up to a lonely heaven filled with bittersweet memories, where even his canonical soulmate and him have wide gulfs between the memories they fill their shared heaven with. Dean dies a hunter, but he dies a hunter who literally saved earth and changed heaven and gets to spend eternity with his brother, side-by-side and together without all the pain and miscommunication, and he gets to see his family and loved ones too. he died having literally made the world so much better.

even without that though?

his story comes full circle, but dean’s character development isn’t about his death, it’s about the fact that in the first several seasons dean could hardly admit he cared without acting like his teeth were being pulled. he was too afraid of abandonment to ask for someone to be by his side. he was too afraid of rejection to let anyone in. and in the end? he asks sam to stay. he tells him that he loves him. he pours his heart out and says all the things that 15 years ago were stoppered in his throat, words trying and failing to claw their way free but his hurt and fears were too deep.

dean is free.

the point of dean’s story coming full circle to season 1 parallels was specifically to highlight this incredible development, not to undermine it. he is different. he is free. 

god it makes me tear up just thinking about how happy i am for him despite how gutted i was by that scene??

(i could write a similar analysis for sam, about how he left for stanford to escape his life and how his finale life montage bits were the opposite of that, but honestly this post is long enough already).

Destiel is loosely a part of that promise in the sense that Castiel is a part of that promise. The symbol of free will

You make a super interesting argument about Cas being a symbol of free will. I don’t have much to say about it, because I’m gonna mull it over, because I think it’s kinda cool and I’ve never thought about it.

That’s - all i’ve got. thanks again for engaging. i’m happy to continue the convo if you have questions or want to reblog/reply 

(though my followers might hate me omg, i’ve been spamming long spn meta posts for weeks now, it’s just been so confronting to see the ongoing fan reaction on twitter and how divided it is...)

#spn meta #supernatural #supernatural meta #spn #fandom discussions #uhhh what do y'all want me to tag this #it's not wank? #it's an open discussion which i like a lot #hmmm #discourse #i'll just go with that #destiel #kind of #this won't show up in the ship tag because that's not in the first 5 tags so i'm safe i hope #don't wanna be a dick and put this in the ship tag #long post #long post for ts #sorry if there are typos it is almost midnight and i am sleepy

[bisluthq]

It’s your kaylor historian here who still can’t remember my log in details to my KH account 🤦‍♀️ (so please make sure this anon just in case it isn’t... I fear them 👀)

Karlie’s tea post before masters heist:

Ok so I can’t remember who posted first and don’t feel like looking, but taylor posted a selfie and captioned it “Friday calmness” and we (kaylor fandom) had been speculating taylor was going to come out as bi on the last day of June / 🌈pride month🌈 since she’d been doing so much stuff that could be seen (and was) as queer coded. We celebrated the “Friday calmness” thinking it was like a ‘calm before the storm’ with the storm being her coming out.

I think Karlie posted after taylor, but am not 100% sure. Karlie posted a selfie with a cup with a caption like “what’s the tea” and the fandom, thinking they were still together, collectively lost our shit. It looked to us like Karlie was playing off Taylor’s post. (I’ll admit, I didn’t think kaylor were still together, but that weekend I was thinking ‘I can’t believe I doubted them!’ Lol)

*there were also rumours that the YNTCD video and single were delayed a couple of times and meant to be released sooner and serve as a soft coming out, but that taylor kept changing her mind about it and is also why she kept the tracklist length under wraps, because she wasn’t sure if she’d go through with it. She was way more vague than ever before. There were also rumours she had a rolling stone cover planned that she was going to come out in but it was scrapped —— I can’t even remember where these “she’s actually coming out” rumours originated anymore and I can’t remember if people had legit sources and gossip or if it was fan fiction planning, but it was mentioned outside the kaylordom too, so take that as you wish.

Then came the masters heist.

Now, to understand the thought process of Kaylors at the time, you have to remember that we thought Karlie & Taylor had a secret romance, Joe was a beard, Josh was a beard - but since he comes from a crime family who have done a lot of bad things (to put it lightly) and are stupidly rich, Josh had Karlie trapped in such a tight contract and has so much blackmail material that Karlie was forced to fake marry him against her will - remember, it was only meant to be a photo shoot for a Vogue wedding spread showing what wedding fashion was available, it wasn’t meant to be a wedding! But josh had his team leak the photos and instead of saying it was all for a photo shoot, Karlie had to say she was now married. <- that was the narrative and thought process within the fandom.

So the fandom thought 🛴 and Josh conspired to announce the purchase of big machine/ taylor’s masters which would derail her coming out plans. The fandom thought Karlie had no idea it was happening. Scooter and Josh were worried Taylor was going to come out, which would ultimately out Karlie since there were so many rumours about Kaylor already, and it would then out Josh and ruin Josh’s image, making it look obvious to everyone that Josh and Karlie were just beards, but kaylor was real. To avoid tarnishing Josh’s hetero card, scooter waited until the end of June to announce he bought taylor’s music for maximum impact.

(Never mind that someone spent $300M to keep a client in the closet) that was how we interpreted the situation (kept writing the fan fiction) and that it was a blow to taylor and a huge betrayal from scooter to Karlie because now they had extra leverage / ways to hurt Karlie.

So yeah. It was a very sad time. This also is why some kaylors think hoax lyrics point to their everlasting love “my best laid plans” = tay ready to come out end of June “your sleight of hand” = scooter tricking Karlie when he bought the masters and any information about taylor that Karlie mentioned innocently was used against them, “my barren land” = taken on a new meaning since Karlie announced her pregnancy, but initially it was seen as the land that was meant to be blooming with love was left barren and empty because of the masters incident delaying her coming out.

It sounds absolutely ludicrous, but the only way to understand how it was easy to rationalise is to understand how adamant the fandom was/ is that Josh and joe are just beards, Karlie is locked in a contract, and taylor is trying to free the both of them. If there were any truth to this at all, it is nothing short of ghastly situation for Karlie and paints taylor as a Nobel warrior trying to save her princess from the tower 🦸🏼‍♀️👸🏼 ....

Karlie had what I think was a scheduled post cause it was ad content , but otherwise was unusually silent on social media for a week + after the announcement. We thought they were grieving together.

——-

Now for Emily Poe. Ok so I really didn’t do my research - I thought Emily was only one or two years older than Taylor, so it never even occurred to me that the idea of that relationship would’ve been extremely predatory and badbadbadbad. I regret not doing my due dillihence when I was part of a fandom that consumed this theory. So Emily theories have been around since Taylor first had gay speculation. Part of this was because of some funny photos like that one where taylor is standing next to a truck that says “...gay Texan” and emily and a guy in the band I can’t think of his name were pointing to taylor and smirking. It’s a funny photo. I can see my dumb teenage self making similar jokes long before I knew my sexuality because LOOOOL GAY was a thing back then. There’s the video taylor made for Emily where she held up the “we love you emily” sign and she went to everyone she toured with including brad paisley to hold up the sign and make heart hands and just be extremely cute - platonic or romantic - both seem plausible - and cute as hell! The video was set to the dashboard confessional song ‘stolen’ which is basically just the lyric “you have stolen my heart” over and over again. This video got renewed interest when people went back and looked back at the you belong with me video. The idea of taylor and her make love interest holding these a4 sheets of paper with “I love you” written on them seemed familiar. The story of how YBWM came about was that Taylor heard her guitarist on the phone with his girlfriend and his gf was yelling at him for something seemingly insignificant/ the gf was painted out as high drama and her guitarist seemed miserable every time he spoke to her for a while. So Taylor had the idea of a song about a girl thinking her friends girlfriend is horrible, but turn it into a love story where the two friends get together - classic romantic comedy trope - she took the idea to Liz Rose and it was one of the last songs written for Fearless and specifically made to be upbeat and preppy because taylor thought the album was lacking that vibe. If you take the story Taylor said inspired the song and swap it from her male guitarist (who she also said she had no feelings for), and change it to her female fiddle player, the story behind the song can be the same, just tweaked to be hetwashed. Emily was a cheerleader and had a boyfriend when she toured with taylor, so it’s easy enough to take those things at surface value and think there was some truth to Emily. Also the two biggest gaylor rumours pre swiftgron came from comments on a gossip site/ forum. One was that ‘Emily was fired after she was caught relieving taylor of stress’ and how ‘emily was interested in law, but this incident cemented she had to leave the band but the swift team gave her money so emily wouldn’t sue for being fired on a sexual harassment issue’ (of course, knowing the age difference, we know this would NOT be the case at all) and it is speculated it inspired taylor to write breathe because she was so sorry for how things ended. They were inseparable and then after her birthday, never seen together or mentioned each other on MySpace again.

The other comment was that taylor ‘was a pillow princess in high school’ and that she was happy to receive but not give because she wanted to maintain her virgin status and thought if she reciprocated it would make her gay — the comment was something like that.

Of course it would’ve been incredibly easy for idk, some random on the internet who has never even met taylor to say those things.... but it was taken as gospel by the gaylor truthers.

People who looked further found a girl they believed was Taylor’s high school gf, her name started with L... but I never really believed it so I don’t have the greatest knowledge of that one. It seemed ridiculous to me she had a 3 year gf as a teenager and not a single person from her high school - or anyone who knew her alleged gf - ever spoke about it publicly??? That would be a lot of NDAs and payouts to keep silent, but a lot of other people believed NDAs and hush money was spent, so yeah... 🤷‍♀️

She also had some fruity MySpace posts which seemed to help the case for gaylor, but imo, it also falls under the ‘teenagers on the internet are dumb especially when social media was brand new and thank god myspace doesn’t exist cause I don’t want to see my old one ever again’ category.

Sorry for the essay, I felt I had been summoned and wanted to give background on the fandom. When I log back in I think I need to change my bio, I’m not really here to talk kaylor , but the fandom. Cause it’s really sad what that narrative within the fandom has become and heartbreaking what that narrative has done to fans, especially queer kids trying to figure themselves out. I couldn’t see how toxic it was for a long time, I’m happy I’m out of there now. but I think it helps to understand how the fandom thought and saw things as to how easy it was for things to spiral to the state it’s in now.

As old T used to sign off, - lovelovelove 💜

Brilliant post thanks KH!

#nat talks the konspiracy

[lgbtqia-representation]

Marginalization within the LGBTQIA+ Community

Sexuality has and always will be a hotspot of discussion for everyone because of how central it is to anyone’s life; so then why is it that certain communities are still ostracized? Within any realm, there are people who perfectly fit into the bubble and others who seemingly never fit into it. While the LGBTQIA+ community, even by its ever-extending name alone, strives for inclusion there are sadly some aspects that are still less accepted within it, and even more so within society. “Pride, the one place that is supposed to be a safe haven for people of all sexual orientations is all too often a place where they must battle the same misconceptions that they encounter among heterosexual people.” (Allen)

Bisexual

Despite ironically being part of the original acronym “LGBT”, bisexuals have never really been part of it. “That June 2018 YouGov data shows that 20 percent of Americans now identify as something other than “completely heterosexual” or “completely homosexual.” That would amount to about 65 million people—a population approaching the size of California and Texas combined.” (Allen)

This community is large and vastly growing in representation each year at Pride events worldwide. Yet ironically the community faces two starkly different complications. First, the idea that bisexuality is simply a phase. People constantly assume that the individual claiming to be bisexual is simply indecisive about their own orientation. Even mass media like “The L Word”, a lesbian central TV show with hints at bisexualism, makes comments along the lines of, “Pick a side”. While the show has all sorts of other redeeming qualities, comments sadly are still highly remembered and affect the community.

Secondly, building off the first part, that because they are “just a phase” there is not a community for them of likeminded individuals. A bisexual is heavily affected by interpretation. For this example, we will assume the bisexual is a woman. If she shows up to an event with a current female partner, it is assumed she is lesbian. Whereas if she shows up with a male partner, she is assumed to be straight. In no situation does the individual get properly identified as a bisexual. This leaves them as dissociated from the community as a large based on who they are currently dating. “This hunger for representation from what is, in fact, a statistical majority of the LGBT community speaks to the fact that bisexual people face discrimination both from within that community and from the world at large.” (Allen)

Organizations like #StillBisexual work to connect the community through inspiring stories that shine a light on real issues from real people within the bisexual community.

The Asexual Spectrum

Before we delve in, if you feel you don’t know too much about asexual spectrum here is an amazing source that breaks down the different forms attractions/connection and how they relate to a person’s sexuality. Check it out here!

The LGBTQIA means asexual, not ally, like so many assume. This is just the tip of the iceberg of the issues they experience. Asexual means they are not sexual attracted to any person. This plays an important role in spreading awareness of the different types of attractions that are fundamental aspects to each of us people. Below is a wonderful depiction of the different types of attraction:

So, as you may have assumed from the title, asexuality is not a one and done sort of deal in explaining, rather it is a spectrum. This spectrum encompasses levels and frequency of attraction and desire to engage in sexual behaviors. On one end, a person would never want to have sex, whereas on the far other end, they would love to be having sex constantly. Within the middle area are the more normal sexual attraction tendencies. When looking at the asexual area of the spectrum other forms of attraction can affect how much someone may want to have sex.

Due to the lack of sexual desire, a lot of asexuals face rejection from the LGBTQIA+ community on the grounds that they do not want to have sex. However, this realm of the community still strives for all the same aspects as any other member: inclusion in media, destigmatizing of their sexual habits, and a desire to connect with likeminded individuals.

“Sex positivity is a long overdue movement meant to celebrate sex: Everyone should be able to have it, whenever and with whomever they want. But for some people that means maybe never with maybe no one.” (Khosla)

Demisexual

Within the realms of asexuality is demisexuality. This sexuality focuses on mental attraction and established relationships. The stereotype behind this sexuality is that of falling in love with your best friend. This is completely since friends are the only options for who they can feel attraction to. Without pre-established friendships, common interests and connections, or past histories together, a demisexual will feel nothing for someone.

This sexuality just like the others of this section face their biggest issue in the form of misunderstandings. Many people sadly assume that this is the same thing as “wanting to wait for the right person”. The issue with this is that as a person with a normal sexual attraction level, a person will look sexually appealing, whereas for demisexuals they do not. There is no sexual attraction and interests in any way until the emotional bonds are established.

“And from one demisexual to another, I will tell you this: we will not have our knight in shining armour, and that is okay. I will have some peace of minding knowing that the aforementioned knight is not a raving lunatic/serial axe-murderer masquerading around as a knight.” (Narasimhan)

Pansexual

Pansexual is one of the more complex sexual orientations while also simultaneously being the easiest in concept. Pansexuality and bisexuality are often used interchangeably which is not correct due to some very specific nuances. “Bi” derived from Latin means “two,” in the case of sexualities they mean the two standard gender options of male and female only. In contrast, a pansexual can be attracted to literally any person, any gender identity, and any gender expression. Pansexuality is specifically not rooted in the binary that bisexuality is rooted in.

As easy to be seen, with so many assumptions made about this sexuality it is hard to feel accepted into the community. They are constantly facing struggles about what their sexuality even is especially because it confronts the binary standard of sexes and gender expression. Overall, this sexuality is simply being attracted outside of the confines of societal binaries.

References:

Allen, Samantha. “Why Bisexuals Feel Ignored and Insulted at LGBT Pride.” The Daily Beast, The Daily Beast Company, 23 June 2018, www.thedailybeast.com/why-bisexuals-feel-ignored-and-insulted-at-lgbt-pride.

“Asexuality, Attraction, and Romantic Orientation.” LGBTQ, lgbtq.unc.edu/resources/exploring-identities/asexuality-attraction-and-romantic-orientation.

“Bisexual Health Facts.” Still Bisexual, stillbisexual.com/education/.

Boog, Isa. “What Is the Difference between Being Asexual and Demisexual?” Quora, 4 Sept. 2018, www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-being-asexual-and-demisexual.

Khosla, Proma. “How the Queer Community Can Embrace the Asexual Spectrum.” Mashable, 26 June 2019, mashable.com/article/sex-positivity-asexual-demisexual-community/.

McNamara, Brittney. “This New Discovery About Bisexual Teen Girls Is Troubling.” Teen Vogue, Teen Vogue, 26 May 2017, www.teenvogue.com/story/bisexual-teen-girls-depression-suicide-ideation-young-women.

Narasimhan, Harshita, et al. “What Is Demisexuality, You Ask? Here's A Quick Primer.” Feminism in India, 7 June 2018, feminisminindia.com/2016/10/24/demisexuality-quick-primer/.

“Pan Pride All Day Long.” Facebook, www.facebook.com/panpridealldaylong/.

“Pin on Pride.” Pinterest, www.pinterest.com/pin/855754366679055022/.

Rosenblum, Karen Elaine, and Toni-Michelle Travis, editors. The Meaning of Difference. 5th ed., McGraw-Hill Education, 2008.

“Still Bisexual.” Still Bisexual, stillbisexual.com/.

Thomas, Sophie Saint. “What's the Difference Between Pansexuality and Bisexuality?” Cosmopolitan, Cosmopolitan, 18 Dec. 2020, www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/a20776748/pansexual-vs-bisexual-differences/.

Images:

Krishnan Rajagopalan, Lyndon A. Taylor 30 Apr 2020, et al. “The Evolution of LGBTQ Inclusion: Building Cultures of Greater Acceptance and Stronger Communities.” The Evolution of LGBTQ Inclusion: Building Cultures of Greater Acceptance and Stronger Communities | Heidrick & Struggles, www.heidrick.com/Knowledge-Center/Publication/The-evolution-of-LGBTQ-inclusion.

#lesbian #gay #lgbtq #lgbtqia #bisexual #pansexual #asexual #aromantic #nonbinary #transgender #pride #demisexual #genderqueer #genderfluid #queer #demiromantic #rainbow pride #intersex #biromantic

[lya1989]

Peace

An analysis

It’s been a while (months) since I gave my 2 cents on Taylor’s songs. There’s two reasons to this, either the song was pretty straightforward in its storytelling or there are analysis that expressed the same ideas I had far better than I ever could. But I was looking at the annotations and interpretations for ‘peace’ recently and found myself having different takes on it.

Disclaimer: This analysis is written by a queer person so if you’re not into that bye (why are you even on tumblr in the first place)

First Verse

Our coming-of-age has come and gone

Suddenly this summer, it's clear I never had the courage of my convictions

As long as danger is near

And it's just around the corner, darlin'

'Cause it lives in me

No, I could never give you peace

The first line immediately sets the timeline/age of the ‘characters” of the song, assuming it’s Taylor and her lover. Coming of age defines as the journey where a youth turns into an adult (around 17 - 22?) This time frame fits nicely into all of her songs that allude to high school imagery eg MAATHP, the love triangle of folklore (which can be viewed with a queer lens as well) and It’s Nice To Have A Friend.

Summer gives more insight on both time and events as well. Many teenagers use the summer break to find love (aka james and the august girl), and in this song, the character “I” who we assume is Taylor, can’t commit to her convictions. Cruel Summer perfectly describes the scenario as if this verse is written in the aftermath of it. CS has a lot of “dangerous” words like ‘knife’, ‘bleed’ and ‘devil’. And the phrase “the worst thing” connects both CS and betty together.

But the thing is, it’s not clear as who is the dangerous one here. Taylor first says that it’s near, which could mean her lover. But then she says goes on to say that it’s lurking around both of them, which suggest a third party Lastly she says it lives inside of her. From these lines I take away that Taylor is afraid of the power her lover has over her, hence they are “dangerous”. She’s also afraid of what others may think about their relationship (eg. media, paparazzi and haters), which are all “dangers” to them and their love. Thirdly she’s afraid of herself for her lover, scared that she might hurt them due to her lack of courage and the inability to give them peace.

“It’s just around the corner” gives me close friends that live close together/in the same neighbourhood (or beside each other like you belong with me mv). It’s very much the friends/best friends to lovers trope, where it’s all about the yearning and the realisation that you are in love. (As a queer woman I can relate to it very much, the reality of this trope is falling for your straight best friend which is why I project all my wishful thinking into the trope)

Anyways, talking about friends got me thinking about INTHAF which is gay. I made it gay - Hayley Kiyoko

All of these interpretation for just the first verse. Whew

Chorus

But I'm a fire and I'll keep your brittle heart warm

If your cascade, ocean wave blues come

All these people think love's for show

But I would die for you in secret

The devil's in the details, but you got a friend in me

Would it be enough if I could never give you peace?

The entire chorus draws connections to the songs in reputation and lover.

He built a fire just to keep me warm - Call it what you want

Ocean blue eyes, looking in mine - Gorgeous

I, I loved you in secret - Dancing with our hands tied

Remember how I said I'd die for you? - False God

Devils roll the dice - CS

It’s nice to have a friend - INTHAF

(also You’re my best friend - You Are In love, which is the epitome of the best friend to lovers trope)

I want to quickly point out that the relationship depicted in DWOHT is the total opposite of peace. In peace, the relationship is seen as public, which means everyone knows. People make speculations whether its true love or just a publicity stunt. But she confirms that its true love with her claims of willing to die for them. (Which is ultimate noble move in a love story) In DWOHT their relationship is secret. The only indication the public have of their relationships is them ‘dancing’/being seen together.

In the last line she subverts the idea of having peace/privacy in a relationship. As a celebrity, she’s aware that her love life will be out in the open for everyone to poke and prod and she worries that it’ll scare her lover away. So she turns the lack of peace into a ‘positive’ thing, as if we’ll make it an adventure to climb over together, as long as you are willing (to be with me).

(Also, Victoria’s Secret fashion show anyone?)

Second verse

Your integrity makes me seem small

You paint dreamscapes on the wall

I talk shit with my friends, it's like I'm wasting your honor

And you know that I'd swing with you for the fences

Sit with you in the trenches

Give you my wild, give you a child

Give you the silence that only comes when two people understand each other

Family that I chose, now that I see your brother as my brother Is it enough?

But there's robbers to the east, clowns to the west

I'd give you my sunshine, give you my best

But the rain is always gonna come if you're standin' with me

Youareboththebestfriend did an analysis on how the song may be written in her lover’s (karlie) perspective, which does make alot of sense in the second verse, as if Taylor and her are communicating with each other in songs using verses as secret messages.

I know that east and west are about the men in this song, but

Dive bar on the east side, where you at?/Third floor on the West Side, me and you - Delicate

You’re the West village - False God

I want to point out that many took ‘give you a child’ very literally, as seen in how tabloid speculate Taylor being pregnant. (which is far more a stretch than my interpretation) but then again who knows, maybe Taylor do want to have a kid with her lover as a new chapter in her life.

But I’m here to give you an alternative. ‘Give you my wild’ could be Taylor saying that she’ll have moments where she’s ‘mad/crazy’ or any other emotions which is perceive as negative, like throwing a tantrum. With this in mind, connecting this phrase with ‘give you a child’ suggest that she may at times act like a child, whether in terms of innocence or naivety, or outright ‘a brat’.

(being a queer woman, I’m taught and I learned to grow up quickly, to be mature, if not ill get hurt. Because of this, I tend to act childlike as i grow up, as if reclaiming my lost childhood. Idk if anyone else feel this way as well but- there are alot of social issue which shapes this process eg gender roles, infatilisation of women etc its a mess of contradictory methods of oppression)

All my walls, stood tall painted blue - Everything has Changed

You can hear it in the silence - YAIL

Rosé flowing with your chosen family - the 1

Trust him like a brother - CIWYW

All of this songs talks about either young love that stems from friendship or the idea of chosen family (which lgbt people can relate to because not many of their biological ones accept them for who they are)

The juxtaposition between sunshine and rain is also important to note. (one year younger me did a small, brief, cringey compilation/analysis of the rain imagery Taylor used in her previous songs here) In peace, rain leans towards the negative side, the inevitable darker moments she brings due to her fame that will affect their relationship. It’s almost a warning for her lover to brace themselves for the storms.

Chorus

But I'm a fire and I'll keep your brittle heart warm

If your cascade, ocean wave blues come

All these people think love's for show

But I would die for you in secret

The devil's in the details, but you got a friend in me

Would it be enough if I could never give you peace?

Would it be enough if I could never give you peace?

Would it be enough if I could never give you peace?

We have the chorus once again, but this time with repetitive questions. We see the same style of writing in Out Of The Woods and Delicate, which are interpret it as Taylor being nervous/anxious about their relationship, and whether her lover will continue being her lover.

In conclusion/TLDR: maybe it’s easier to understand the song if the sentence was “Would it be enough, if i could give you everything but peace?”

#taylor swift #gaylor swift #kaylor #queer analysis