MCU fans: okay so it would be nice if Loki had some self love ya know, he’s been through enough
Marvel: okay so we’ll create room for a ship between themself and a very different but still a version of themself.
MCU fans: …
MCU fans: wait a minute…
In this household we stan Lokius and love a SIBLING LIKE dynamic between Loki and Sylvie
Not a Sylki shipper, but can we talk about That Scene?
Like I'm a Lokius shipper and from the first minute of 1x03 I was calling Loki and Sylvie the chaos twins, but I know how to read when a scene is building up to a romantic moment. It's obvious. The camera movement, the music, the acting- it's pretty clear. So when Loki started saying "All I want" I sort of rolled my eyes and waited for him to say some cliche "All I want is you" bullshit.
But he didn't
Instead, what did he say? "All I want is for you to be okay."
Which is just...
That's selfless love. Pure, selfless love. He's not thinking about himself even though he is because she's technically him and so this qualifies as him finally finding self-love but that's for another post or about what he wants. He's not trying to "win" or "gain" her. He just wants her to be okay. Which is the most selfless kind of love there is.
This Man Deserves Better Fans
Being an admirer of both the Loki show and Tom Hiddleston as an actor, I get exposed to some hot takes from fellow ‘fans’ complaining about the series.
I don’t understand how folks can claim to be a fan of someone and then actively create false narratives to disparage that person’s work, but it seems to happen a lot here.
One instance from today is a post (with hundreds of likes) which alleges that the executives on the show actually had to remind the writers to focus on Loki. The poster then goes on to expound on how terrible the show must be because of how ‘concerning’ it is that the writers needed to be told time and time again that Loki should be the focus.
Sounds terrible right?
“What awful writers!” chant the comments. “How disgusting!” they cry. “That’s why the show is terrible!” they howl.
But it’s not the truth...
The OP posted this screen shot from head writer Eric Martin as evidence of their claim:
That’s right, everyone. Can you believe it?
Those idiot writers had the sheer ignorant, awful, audacity to try focus more on Sylvie...
...in one episode.
I hate to break it to Tom Hiddleston ‘fans,’ but the writers wanting to provide more background on the secondary protagonist is not cause for an fan revolt. It’s actually good writing.
(Personally, I would have loved to have seen more about Sylvie’s backstory. Is she also a frost giant? Is her mother actually a good version of Hela? Did she have siblings? etc.)
But then again, that would be putting more focus on a female character. And folks here don’t seem to like that at all.
Seriously. Do you think these same angry fans would make these complaints if the show gave us more of Mobius’s backstory? Or would they be begging for even more mustache time? What about a cameo from Thor? Would they be okay with giving men (and potential male love interests) more screen time? I think we already know the answer to that.
When folks choose to retroactively hate a show because they don’t like a female character, there’s no winning with them.
Reduce Sylvie’s story time and 'fans’ hate her for being a bland love interest
Increase her story time and they hate her for taking the focus off of Loki
Make her strong and she’s a Mary Sue
Make her vulnerable and she’s dead weight
They don’t seem to realize that they are twisting the truth to actively and vocally trash the hard work of a real human being they claim to support. Sorry not sorry, but:
Tom was fundamental in creating the show and completely on-board for the way his show turned out.
Like the romance or hate it; it was Tom’s idea. He’s wanted a love story with the Enchantress since at least 2013:
He is an executive producer and was instrumental in getting the show made and getting the series to focus on his romance with the Enchantress. He literally conducted hours-long lectures for the writers and other actors about his vision for his own character, and molded and shaped the story and characters from the very beginning.
How do I know?
Because unlike the single time he joked that the show only took 5% of his ideas, he’s consistently talked about how he enjoyed having so much say in his character and the show. Like this from Tumblr:
If you didn’t like how much Sylvie or romance features in the show, I have some terrible news for you:
The man you claim to admire and support -Tom Hiddleston- he succeeded in making his dreams for his character come true. I hate to be the one to tell you that all of his hard work shaping the show paid off and Loki is the highest rated and most acclaimed Marvel series ever. And please accept my condolences on the fact that Tom’s already excitedly planning out the second season...
...and it’s gonna be full of Sylvie:
In all seriousness, if you really are a fan of Tom Hiddleston, you should at least be happy for him and let his work speak for itself.
His portrayal of the character is so compelling that he’s been brought back from the dead three times. He’s so good at it that he got his own show! He was finally able to have the on-screen romance that he’s dreamed of for almost a decade! He got to fundamentally shape his own series, and that series is the most viewed and highest rated Marvel show ever made!
He’s had incomparable success with Loki! You should be proud of him! Happy for him! Thrilled for him!
Instead, you’re dreaming up false narratives to trash on the series and actively disparaging the culmination of a decade’s worth of Tom’s passion and hard work.
I’m not saying you have to love the show, but just because the story didn’t turn out exactly how you want doesn’t mean it’s bad. There are valid criticisms about the series and about any piece of media.
But spreading deceitful, derogatory rubbish about an artist’s work is terrible behavior for someone who calls themselves a fan.
Okay We Need to Talk About Variants
No Way Home Spoilers
I am NOT participating in Loki/Sylvie discourse here. I don't particularly care where you fall on the line with it. I don't love it just because I don't think it services either character, but I digress.
People have created this idea that variants have the same exact DNA. Why? This is never stated to be the case, people just decided that this was a rule in the multiverse when it was never actually stated and there is clear evidence that variants CAN differ in DNA.
Now, SOMETIMES variants clearly have the same DNA. Look at our Main Loki, The TVA Loki, and President Loki. They clearly have the same DNA.
And again, look at our Strange and Strange Supreme, same person and likeness, hell, Supreme is played by Cumberbatch in the trailer for MoM.
These variants clearly have the same DNA. But look me in the metaphorical eye and tell me these 4 characters all have the same DNA.
Unless you want to tell me that a white woman, a black man, and an Alligator are genetically identical, it is very clear that they are NOT identical in DNA.
"They are shapeshifters" okay fine, whatever, then explain Throg and main universe Thor, they are not shapeshifters to our knowledge, are THEY identical?
No Way Home extends this.
This is a less drastic example but they are clearly 3 different men, 3 different sets of DNA.
Peter 3 says he always wanted brothers, but that really in no way confirms how close their DNA is. Thor and Loki in the main MCU call each other brothers despite being completely different species. They are brothers through circumstance and choice, not blood. Peter 3 very well can be referring to them as his brothers in that way. Again, was the show saying they are genetically brothers? Is Peter 3 just wanting a connection to people close to him? You can't actually argue that definitely as there is no definitive answer, it devolves into "nuh uh" very quickly.
Also, this film alone introduces tons of variants of each other without actually showing us. By canonizing the Raimi trilogy, the Webb Duology, and the Venom Duology, we get a SHIT ton of variants that clearly are not genetically identical. Three Mays, two Bens, two Normans, two Harrys, two Gwens, two Eddie Brocks, hell even the Venom Symbiote itself is very different from Spider-Man 3 to Venom. The only same actor throughline is JJJ in the Raimi and Watts films.
In terms of DNA, there is no set rule one way or the other. Sometimes variants are identical, sometimes they aren't.
I believe a safe rule is that if two variants are played by the same actor (or look/sound alike actors such as Tony and Nat in What if) they have the same DNA. But if they are different actors, they do not have the same DNA. It is impossible to argue how CLOSELY the variants share DNA such as Loki and Sylvie because we can't literally see their coding, but the two, by this rule, are different at least to some extent. It's easier to argue that Croki is more distinct from Sylvie than it is TVA Loki and Sylvie but really it's just arguing with whatever your headcanon is on how close their DNA is because we don't know. Are TVA Loki and Sylvie close enough to be siblings? God I sure hope not, considering this:
But we cannot know for sure. If the uncertainty on that means you don't like it, fine. If the fact they aren't confirmed to be identical and you trust we wouldn't be served literal, DNA based incest, whatever.
Please, just, understand how DNA and genetics works, please.
Loki 2021 was not a queerbait. As of now, Loki is a canonically bisexual & genderfluid character. Sylvie is also a bisexual character. Them being in a het-presenting relationship does not make them any less bisexual or queer. Claiming otherwise would be biphobic. Period.
Okay, now lets address the elephant in the room: Loki and Mobius' relationship. Were we baited with a mlm relationship? Well, no. At no point and i repeat, at no point was there any hint that something other than the platonic relationship is being established between Loki and Mobius. There was a shameless queerbait in TFATWS that really disappointed me. I literally ship Sylki for the same reason i ship SamBucky, there are a lot of similarities between their dynamics.
On the other hand, Loki and Mobius' relationship was intentionally framed to be read as having the son-father dynamic. Loki and Sylvie never had a sibling-like relationship. Their scenes were framed romantically form the very beginning. Denying this would be weird. Loki and Mobius, however, did have a familiar-like relationship. Mobius is like a father Loki never had. This is how their relationship was written, directed and this is how the actors played it.
Yes, they had some good chemistry but it was not the romantic or sexual kind of chemistry at any point and this comes from someone who ships Hannigram, Ineffable Husbands and Spirk - a pairing from 60s, played by the straight actors who probably played their characters as straight, yet, Spock and Kirk's bond could be easily interpreted as being more than platonic. Compared to several queer-coded pairings, Loki and Mobius' bond is not especially profound.
This is not me saying that L0kius should not be shipped, or me undermining the importance of their friendship. They indeed had an impact on each other and got along pretty well, however, i would not say Loki and Mobius really had deep any interactions, meaningful yes, but nothing especially "epic".
Assorted Sylki headcanons:
Loki is genderfluid, and goes by multiple prounouns, but I’m not sure about Sylvie. Perhaps she is fluid as well, or maybe she’s cis, agender or a trans woman. My current head-canon is that she is AMAB and uses she/they prounouns.
They are both bi/pan (duh), though I headcanon Loki as gray-aro and possibly poly. Once again not sure about Sylvie.
They have a lot of the same hobbies. Both being huge fans of literature, history, science and the arts.
This leads to lots and lots of deep and nerdy conversations.
Ultimate power couple. Could probably take down Thanos by themselves if they teamed up. They laugh together, they fight together, they teach eachother magic and learn some together as well.
I feel like they would develop some healthy competition here. They love eachother enough to be more proud than jealous if one learns something faster or is more natural at a specific skill.
They totally fight for Mobius’s attention. Mobius is just very happy to have two Loki variants in his life to study. (And be besties with of course)
I’m not saying they adopt kid Loki, but I’m not not saying it either...
They have thier ups and downs but always come back to eachother. They are literal soulmates, after all.
They still ask eachother if they’re okay.
Loki writes her poetry and reads and/or sings her to sleep. She likes to give him massages or use her enchantment to soothe him.
They love slow dancing, though it takes a little effort to get Sylvie onto the dance floor in public. Their song is “if you love me” by Brenda Lee.
He tells her everything about Asgard, reteaches her Asgardian, tells her about the life she could have had. She tells him tales of things she’s seen and he could only dream of.
Then Loki takes her to Asgard. She gets to meet his family. Perhaps they even manage to go back and meet hers.
Loki helps Sylvie trust again, and teaches her how to have fun and be vulnerable. He is the only person she will cry around.
Sylvie helps Loki love himself and opens him up to life paths and ways of thinking he isn’t used to.
I don’t think they’ll have thier happy ending, as much as I want them to. As much as they deserve. So when they are inevitably parted, they console themselves with the knowledge that somewhere, sometime, they are eternal.
But even eternity isn’t forever. In that eternity, they die hand in hand.
They cause a LOT of trouble at family gatherings and similar events. They crashed Sif and Valkyrie’s wedding. The heros, Dr. Strange in particular, are fucking fed up with them. The Peters love them.
Everyone is weirded out by their relationship but still somehow ships it. They receive lots of teasing and “go fuck yourself” jokes, as well as the odd “stop touching yourself and concentrate.” Thor definitely finds it weirdest.
Sick of people assuming they’re related, Loki and Sylvie start playing along and introduce themselves as siblings just to see the horror on people’s faces when they’re caught kissing.
But sometimes they’ll use illusion projection to have some (Ahem) fun in public and/or avoid being walked in on.
Matching outfits. Enough said. Honestly if we don’t get to see both of them donning the full costume in season two...
They shape shift into eachother sometimes to either annoy other people or annoy eachother. On a smaller scale, they’ll sometimes switch their hair colors or headpieces for a laugh.
Trick tournaments. They know eachother so well that is nearly impossible to lie to the other. So they make a challenge of it. They compete to see who can prank or fool who first. The winner gets a...ahem...special treat that night. They’re both incredible actors, so these games get intense.
They tease eachother constantly. This banter can get quite mean, but they both know it’s out of love.
These two have two kinds of sex: tearful, tender lovemaking, and the wildest kinkiest shit conceivable. We’re talking shapeshifting, consensual enchantment, illusions, knife play, and some of the strangest and most messed up foreplay you can imagine.
Some of their faves include King and Queen (on Asgard’s throne), twincest (you know they would), conjuring an illusion they’re fucking in front of everyone they know...walking around in public appearing naked to eachother but clothed to everyone else...
It’s also very good sex. They know exactly what the other wants and how. And they have a lot of it. Everywhere. And in the strangest places. You can’t even imagine the situations they’ve been caught in.
Oh and they’re both switches. Sometimes he’ll dominate her and she’ll finally trust someone else to be in control. Sometimes she’ll peg him. Remind him just how powerful she is, as if he needs reminding.
Loki does this all the time, but sometimes Sylvie will change up her genitals for a twist. Or her species.
When it’s rough, it’s rough. Scratching, screaming, roughhousing, biting. Lots and lots of biting.
When it’s tender, it’s tender. Loki whispers softly in asgardian. Sylvie admits things she never has before. They trace patterns on skin. Kiss tears away.
Absolutely. I get that maybe Loki- quiet and sensible Thor- loud and brash is probably too simplistic as we then go on to learn more about them, and that's more how they are in certain circumstances, but again, that wasn't dreamed up, we saw it with the interaction with Laufey. And I'd also argue Loki is very sensible with Sylvie in the finale in the same way. He isn't always chaotic like new canon likes to depict him, again, depending.
right, and not just Laufey, but pretty much all the early scenes in the movie--Loki is quiet at Thor’s coronation while Thor eats up the attention. Thor and Odin yell at each other in the vault while Loki just watches them and says nothing (which I think was probably the scene were I first strongly identified with him as a character, so...there’s that), maybe because it’s safer and he doesn’t want to get yelled at too, maybe because this is going more or less like he wanted/expected, maybe some of both, but it always strikes me that he’s completely silent and the other two don’t even notice. this dynamic is normal for them. at least to some extent, Loki is the quiet one who ends up in the shadows, overlooked; Thor is the loud, bright sibling who demands everyone’s attention. (then of course you have the bit where Thor throws a literal tantrum and overturns a whole feast table, and Loki is there not doing that.) the same thing happens in the Observatory right before Thor’s banished, too--Thor and Odin yell at each other, Loki is silent and overlooked in the background, definitely freaked out this time, except here Odin actively silences him when he tries to say something. that’s all very much canon! it’s reflected again in Ragnarok, even, where Loki doesn’t get a single line of dialogue in the final cut of Odin’s death scene (although that time Odin takes notice of him anyway, which indicates Odin at least learned something from all this, even if it was way too late).
but again, I think new canon can be completely complementary. it’s possible to compare the two and go, okay, for starters we can assume that by the time of Thor’s banishment, the whole Odinfam had settled into some pretty entrenched toxic patterns of behavior in their relationships with each other, to the point that none of them even fully realized there were problems until the problems spectacularly blew up in everyone’s faces, and the way Loki acts is partly a product of that environment. as much as he genuinely loved Asgard, it had become pretty stifling and toxic for him, and his behavior changes when he’s taken away from everything he’s ever known--
but also, there are still a lot of throughlines in his behavior. this post shows a lot of them, and it doesn’t even hit everything. we see a lot more of Loki’s chaotic side in the show, true, but he’s also pretty consistent in things like...preferring diplomacy and/or guile over brute force (pickpocketing Mobius instead of continuing to try attacking him, trying to talk to the variant in Roxxcart, the thing with the old woman, the thing on the train, trying to persuade Mobius in episode 4), or at least on some level thinking about people who tend to be forgotten in these types of fights (specifically offended that three “space lizards” control the fate of trillions of people, seems upset about TVA agents not knowing they’re being lied to, “they’re going to let these people die,” recognizes the massively bad consequences to everyone if they make the wrong choice in episode 6) or wanting to think things through at least a little before taking irrevocable action with a completely unknown outcome (everything in the Citadel, like you said; in some ways Pompeii is an example of this in the opposite direction, where he acted impulsively in part because he was certain he was right), or being a giant fucking nerd (I mean this was pretty much just a headcanon before! and I think we can all agree that now it is in fact canon!). it shows up in different ways, sometimes in ways that do seem kind of jarring, but a lot of his underlying attitudes are pretty similar. that’s why I’m still pretty comfortable thinking that it’s possible to make all of it work together, really, because it mostly does if you look for those throughlines.
Things I don't like about Slyki:
It feels rushed
I think Loki and Sylvie work better as siblings with the way they act, both combativly and friendly
Saying they're bi but still giving them a romance the hets could overlook bc it "passes" annoys me (and before anyone screams biphobia, I'm happy to break down my feeling about this in a similar context of why sexy clothes can be liberating for irl people, but still sexist as hell and not empowering at all in fiction bc it's still a writer's choice to portray them that way,)
Loki's arc is supposed to be about learning to love himself and grow, not learning to love an iteration of himself from another timeline and still not learn things about himself bc of it
The actors' chemistry is just straight up not there for me in a romantic sense. The Lemantis scene literally made me go "oh god please don't. Okay thank you yes comfort without romance, thank u bbs." and Loki's thing right before he was pruned didn't feel genuine. Whether bc it was a trick or just, again, a chemistry thing, idk, but it felt very Not Good to me.
Not 100% a Lokius shipper (why does everything HAVE to have romance?) but the way Loki and Mobius play off each other feels more flirty and like it could go somewhere than Loki and Sylvie
Again: Why does everything have to have romance???
Reasons I will still absolutely fight you if you try and say Sylki is a "bad ship":
"It's incest!" Literally how. They are the same person from entirely different timelines, and entirely different individuals bc of it. Like that's the whole point. Look me in the eyes and tell me Croki is also the same person and therefore "basically siblings." Also I know y'all still shipping Thorki. Y'all ain't slick. (And I'd argue that's not incest either but I digress,)
"It's selfcest!!" ... yeah? Why is that bad? Go read some opinions about Loki x Jotun Loki that have been floating around since 2011 and get back to me. That's like a Whole Thing. Plus Idek why selfcest would be bad bc it hurts literally no one, but go off I guess
"It's queerbaiting!!" Look okay I get it, and as said above, I'm not a fan of how they're handling Loki's queerness bc the ship is total Het Comfort Food, but a bi person being in a relationship with someone of the opposite gender does not suddenly make them straight. Also Loki is canon genderqueer, even in the MCU now. His relationships can't be anything BUT queer. Die mad about it.
"It's not gay like in thought it was gonna be, so it's bad!!!" ?????¿¿? Get over yourself??? I'm a little disappointed too, but how about we don't fetishize queer/mlm relationships so much, hmm? Take a deep breath and go outside for half an hour. Let a bee land on you. Bc guess what. Even if it was Lokius/Loki² with another male presenting Loki, it wouldn't be a "gay" ship any more than Sylki is "straight" . The boi isn't cishet.
Anyway I have a lot of feelings about this ship (that I don't even like??) and I love Sylvie so fucking fight me
Okay, I'm gonna go for a discussion post here, and hope I don't regret it. Anybody can chime in with their thoughts, as long as you're coming in the spirit of respectful, creative discussion. No hate here.
This is my official I Love the Characters of Loki and Sylvie but Do Not Ship Them in the Slightest post.
There are two factors to this for me: the first being their demeanor/behavior/body language with each other,and the second being my interpretation of the Variants' relationships to each other.
Delving into the second point first, the show is very ambiguous about exactly what the variants are to each other. I posted my thoughts on this a while back, so I won't get into all that again, but I think there are multiple perfectly valid and understandable ways of viewing them. For me...the best way I can describe it is a sort of parallel universe clone situation, but where the core matter is something metaphysical or supernatural rather than genetic. Think Willow and wishverse vampire Willow in BtVS. The world they're in may give the base matter very similar or very different shape (on a spectrum of Alligator Loki to President Loki in terms of how closely they resemble our Loki) but they are, at the heart of it, the same.
And that, framed as a romantic relationship, doesn't work for me. There's nothing inherently wrong with or immoral about it, but it weirds me out. That's just my reaction. For a little more context,I also don't like fics where a character is magically doubled for a kinda sorta not-really threesome with their partner. This is a flavor I'm not into. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, but it's still a hard pass for me.
Circling back to the first point, there's Loki and Sylvie actual interaction with each other, which at no point sells them to me as falling in love. Prior to Mobius raising the possibility, nothing in their interaction suggests to me that they are developing romantic feelings for each other. I am one of those that gets heavy sibling vibes off their interaction in "Lamentis," followed by a moment of beautiful, poignant connection in the opening of "The Nexus Event" that in no way reads to me as romantic. It could have if the rest of their interaction read that way -- but it didn't. So when the scene with Mobius talking about them falling for each other rolled around, I was legitimately going "wtf is he talking about?" And that final moment in the throne room of the Timekeepers, just before he's pruned, Loki reads to me as testing a theory, while Sylvie looks apprehensive. Before he starts talking to her about "this is new to me" Loki actually narrows his eyes in thought. Him reaching out to put his hands on her shoulders doesn't play like the lead-up to a passionate moment so much as an uncertain attempt to recreate their moment of connection from the beginning of the episode, because minutes before, Mobius posited that their connection, whatever it is, could destroy the TVA.
In Journey Into Mystery, what struck me most about the blanket scene is how rigid they both were, Sylvie in particular. They only touch at that one point on their shoulders. Sylvie looks uncomfortable for part of it and distracted for the rest. Loki...I can see what I could kinda buy as puppy love/infatuation on his part, kind of, if I squint, but even then that read takes effort on my part. And her "maybe" is not convinced or convincing. I feel like she's trying something on and finding it ill-fitting.
And the kiss in the finale feels, one hundred percent, like pure distraction to me. Their body language emphasizes the space between them; her hands grab but are poised to push away, not to draw closer. Neither of them melt into it; they stay, as with the moment under the blanket, very stiff and self-contained.
I love them both. I think she's a great addition to the universe, and I enjoy their chemistry -- but I don't get true love off them.
Now, anyone is welcome to share thoughts, but keep it polite and respectful.
Spiderman: NWH Spoilers...
Spoilers under the cut, just in case you haven't gotten the chance to see the movie yet:
Andrew referring to his, Tobey's, and Tom's Peters as "brothers," with him being the middle child who is working through his trauma from what happened with Gwen by helping his younger brother (Tom's Peter) out is so fucking funny to me.
It's just because, THIS is what I thought the whole variant thing would play out. With it being sort of a family dynamic or a mutual understanding of sorts.
Not whatever the hell Loki did with their so-called "queer representation."
I don't know if it's because I'm an aroace who would rather want a sibling-like relationship with an alternative version of me because they would understand things in a way others couldn't, but I just can't help but go, "Oh boy..."
Look, I like Loki, I enjoyed Sylvie's character too, but oh man does the whole relationship make me uncomfortable. Like, if they were trying to push "Loki can only love himself, oooh what a narcissist" then, okay?? I guess?? Then it just misses the point of all the character development Loki goes through??
On top of that, with their claims of a canonically bisexual and genderfluid Loki going down the drain, it doesn't give the ship a good look. If anything it's a "he was a boy, she was a girl, can I make it anymore obvious?" bullshit writers pull to move the story/plot along (again, that could just be me being aroace and sick of this troupe). It's just...disappointing.
Anyways, I find that bit of difference between these two groups of variants oddly amusing.
I have more thoughts on the whole Sylvie and Loki ordeal but I'll probably leave those for another day...
Heya! So some things I wanted to say 😀
First of all, Thank You for your anti-Sylvie posts, I need more of those and they make me happier. I couldnt figure why Loki series felt off from ep 3 and these anti-Slyvie posts helped in that.
Yk, when she was first introduced, I was put off by her ugly blonde hair (no hate to Sophia tho) but I wanted to give her a chance cause she might have been the Enchantress.
But then it all went downhill faster than you could say 'Yikes'. And then the entire series became about her. Her motives, her trauma, her everything. I was excited to see our Loki explored but the series let us down. Horribly.
I got pissed at the fact that Kate Herron put her Fem!OC. Like are you kidding me?! There is a fucking reason why it is MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE not Y/N Reader insert universe!!
Also, what I noticed in Loki was (and a lot of others might have also seen this) that why did Loki turn into a noob all of a sudden from ep 1 to ep 2?! Like in my opinion, seeing those videos would have shaken him up but not do a 180° turn on his character in a span of what? 3-4 hours? Bro, what kind of crack were they smoking while writing the script?
(Okay, this got long 😅)
We’ve been talking a bit since you sent this ask, but I’m gonna answer it anyway cause I like ranting lol.
I think I was one of the few people that got excited when I first saw the behind the scenes pics with Sophia, because I thought she was going to be Amora. And!!! I’ve wanted Amora in the mcu for SO LONG!!! And then I thought she might also be a different version of the enchantress (like Sylvie Lushton in the comics) and maybe that’d be cool cause she’d play basically the same role, right? Or even if she was Lady Loki (which I was kinda iffy on cause I didn’t like the blonde either lol) lol that would’ve been ok because then they’d have to address his gender fluidity!
But somehow they managed to bypass all of that, and create a mash-up of all those characters that somehow had none of the positive traits of any of them. She doesn’t act like Amora at all, and doesn’t have any of Amora’s lore. She doesn’t have any of Sylvie Lushton’s lore, either. And she also doesn’t further the genderfluid thing, because she’s a completely different version of him despite being the same person (which is so needlessly confusing oh my god). I just…. How did they manage to screw up this bad??
And then on top of the fact that her character just failed fundamentally, there’s also the issue with her completely overtaking the entire plot, stealing time that could’ve been spent on Loki’s characterisation and instead using it to explain her backstory, turning loki into an ooc mess that cared about nothing besides the girl he fell in love with after meeting her 3 days ago……. I’m just very irritated with her.
I wanted so bad to like her despite her characterisation, but I honestly don’t even care for the sibling dynamic fics about them, cause I just dislike her that much lol.
And honestly it wasn’t even after the time theatre thing that he changed so drastically. He was standing on a rock trying to subjugate like 3 random Mongolians for literally no reason like 2 minutes into episode 1, which… What?
There are definitely a lot of positive things about the series (I kinda wanna do a post on that, just as a little breather) but, man, there are a lot of negative things.
Loki receives an unexpected visitor. This is set in my Everybody Wants You modern AU.
PART 1 PART 2 PART 4 PART 5 PART 6
Normally, Loki was a morning person. However, after spending the night getting smashed on cheap booze, and being made fun of by his siblings, he really didn’t appreciate being rudely awoken by someone ringing his doorbell at the crack of dawn.
Trying to shake the sudden and unwanted desire to throw up, Loki crawled out of bed and stumbled to his front door.
He swung open the door and snarled, “Who are you and why the fuck are you—Mobius!"
Loki stared at him for a moment before stepping out and shutting the door quickly. “What are you doing here?”
Mobius raised an eyebrow. "Hello to you too."
“What are you doing here?” Loki repeated, crossing his arms over his chest. After the last two weeks, he was more than a little angry—and hurt.
"I thought we could grab breakfast," Mobius said.
"Breakfast? No explanation, you just show up and want to take me to breakfast?" His tone was becoming nasty, but Loki couldn’t stop. It fucking hurt. To be fair, they had never been attached at the hip and they’d gone longer than two weeks without seeing each other. But this time it felt…different. "Two weeks, and not a word and you just expect me to accept that?"
Mobius averted his gaze. "Loki—"
"No. Don't you Loki me. I want an explanation. I thought we were friends." Loki was aiming for reproachful, but his voice came out all wrong, whiny and pouty. What was it about Mobius that reduced him to a total child? It was seriously baffling.
“Sorry, I was just dealing with something,” Mobius said.
“Something,” Loki said flatly, deeply unimpressed. What was so important that Mobius totally ignored him for weeks?
"Leave it Loki, please. Can we just get breakfast?" Mobius's intense gaze practically pleaded him to agree. It was the kind of intensity that was hard to deny.
Loki nodded with a crooked smile, and said, “Okay." Whatever Mobius's reasons were, and there must be something, he would share it with Loki eventually. Loki had to believe that.
"Thank you," Mobius said, and gave Loki a small smile that made his chest warm.
Mobius raised his eyebrows, looking faintly amused. "But, you might want to get dressed first."
Loki flushed. “I just woke up,” he said, rather defensively.
Mobius smiled, his eyes full of mirth. "Let's go inside. I'll make us coffee while you grab a shower. You look like you need it."
Loki beamed, a wave of relief washing over him. Mobius was looking at him, smiling at him, with fond exasperation and amusement. It immediately made the last two weeks of silence seem like a distant memory. Nothing serious had changed between them. It couldn't have if Mobius could still look at him like that.
Mobius narrowed his eyes. "“Whatever you’re plotting, stop it."
"I beg your pardon?"
"You're grinning like an idiot. That usually means you've got some kind of mischief planned. If you put salt in my coffee one more time, I won't be held responsible for my actions."
Loki chuckled. "I promise you, Mobius. I have nothing devious planned." Was it ridiculous that he’d missed being on the receiving end of Mobius’s good-natured ribbing?
Loki went to open his front door, then remembered Thor and Sylvie. "Shit! Uh… I have guests." The last thing he needed was Thor and Sylvie interrogating Mobius while he was in the shower. The two of them would likely scare him away, and he had only just got him back.
“Right,” Mobius said, his tone difficult to read, before falling silent.
The silence stretched, becoming uncomfortable.
Loki chewed on his lip, feeling confused by the sudden strange tension. His and Mobius’s friendship had always been easy. It had no place for weird silences.
At last, Mobius said tersely, “Another day, then.”
“Um…sure,” Loki said, with an awkward half-smile. Shit, he had no idea what was wrong with him. He’d never felt this awkward and unsure in his life. What the hell was going on?
Then Mobius turned and walked away.
Just like that, without so much as a goodbye.
Ugly disappointment churned in the pit of his stomach. After weeks of Mobius’s absence, this wasn’t the reunion he’d had in mind.
Were they even friends anymore?
Was Mobius really sick of him?
Hating how insecure and upset he felt, Loki cut off that train of thought.
Wrapping his arms around his stomach, Loki went back inside and immediately crawled back into bed.
"Screw him, and his weird behaviour," Loki mumbled into his pillow. "I don't need him." Maybe if he said enough, he would actually believe it.
I don’t care about DNA
So it's probably a terrible idea to post this, but it keeps taking up space in my brain that could be used to plot the next chapter of my story. Also I’m waiting for roadside assistance to come change the tire on my car. So here we go.
I'm a Sylki shipper, and I don't care at all if they have the same DNA or not. It does not matter to me. It matters to antis because they want to invalidate the ship. For you other Sylki shippers out there, maybe this post will help you also not care what the antis say about Loki and Sylive's DNA, because as soon as you examine the concept to carefully it all becomes absurd.
The first and most important reason I don't care is that a romantic and loving relationship is totally valid even if there are no biological children. It doesn't matter if it's a m/f couple who choose not to have kids or any kind of couple straight or queer that can't have biological children. Children do not validate a relationship.
But okay, for the rest of this post, let's assume that Sylvie and Loki have exactly the same DNA. They still are not siblings. They were not raised together, and they don't have the same biological parents. They are the children of two different men called Laufey, who also happen to have the same DNA.
And I know at first glance that may seem to indicate they are siblings, but here is the thing. If Loki's Laufey and Sylive's Laufey have exactly the same DNA, and that makes two people siblings, it means both Laufey's are also brothers. So now, not only are Loki and Sylvie siblings, but they are also first cousins on both their mother's and father's sides. So without doing anything, Loki and Sylvie are already about as inbred as a person can be, especially because so are their parents and their parent's parents, and everyone else in every timeline.
You can't draw cross-timeline family trees without complete and utter nonsense happening.
So they are not siblings.
Okay, but what if you are a Sylki shipper and you'd like a story where they have children. Welcome to the beautiful world of fanfic. There are two obvious answers, adoption, or a Modern AU, where they are just ordinary people because self-cest is not a thing that exists in the real world.
But what if you still want them to be their MCU selves and have kids? Here's where things get fun. If they have the same DNA, then any child either of them has with a third party is exactly as genetically related to Loki as to Sylvie. So go wild. This is perfect for an OT3, because no one is left out of being related to the child.
Is that not your thing? What about the story where Loki and Sylvie try to convince Tony Stark to be a sperm donor? Or the story about them interviewing women to be a surrogate?
Also, they are gods, so let's talk about mythological stories for a moment. We don't know what it means to be a God in the MCU. In the first Thor movie, there's the implication that the Asgardians just have more advanced technology, and so to humans, it looks like magic, but that's clearly not the case. Thor is the God of Thunder, not the God of Hammers. He doesn't have some sort of device that lets him summon lightning the way Stark uses his lasers/beam weapons. There is something innate to Thor's being that allows him to bring storms. Does that mean he has lightning DNA? No, there's no such thing.
And Loki is a shapeshifter. Does he even really have the same physical form the rest of us do? Our physical bodies are partially the expression of our DNA. So does that mean that Loki's DNA is as mutable as his form? The mythological Loki had a child as a horse, so that Loki must have had horse DNA.
Okay, I said I would assume they have the same DNA for the rest of this, but clearly, that makes no sense when you think of them as Gods and mythological beings.
So let's end on some weird sci-fi stuff that I can't help thinking about. If we pretend (because you know it's all make believe) that they are ordinary biological organisms with DNA they still aren't human. They are Frost Giants, and we don't know anything about Frost Giant biology. Loki says he was "created by a Frost Giant." Not by two. Probably he's just showing the male bias of his culture because a moment later, he credits Odin with being the one to raise him. But maybe not. Maybe he's hinting at something he knows about Frost Giant biology. Possibly they reproduce asexually? Who knows. It's up to the writer to decide.
Also, for those afraid that Loki and Sylvie will accidentally conceive an inbred child, I feel like I have to point out that birth control does exist in the MCU. I feel like Sylvie uses something (probably not the pill, how would you keep track of when to take it while time traveling?) because she couldn't let a baby slow her down as she ran from apocalypse to apocalypse.
But also again, she's a Frost Giant, there's no way they live thousands of years, but about every 28 days, the females become fertile. If they had the same reproductive cycle as humans, Jotenhiem would have been overrun with Frost Giants, and there would have been no elbow room.
Also, fun fact, human females are atypical. Unlike most other animals on earth, we don't let our potential mates know when we are fertile. We don't even know. Some animals go into heat, some animals have very specific mating seasons, just to name a few examples. So maybe Frost Giants know precisely when they are fertile, making it easy to avoid conception. (Bonus fact, menopause is also very rare. We only know about five species that go through it.)
The point is if you want to worry about DNA and sci-fi, then go crazy with it. They are not terrestrial creatures, and so there's no reason to think their reproductive systems are the same as our human ones.
And the thing is, Marvel/Disney is never going to tell us about their DNA. They don't care. The MCU isn't that kind of science fiction. The fact that they allowed them to be a cannon romantic couple makes me believe that the official stance is that they do not have the same DNA. Actually, I suspect the official view is that Marvel/Disney does not care. Regardless Loki and Sylive's genetic makeup is whatever the writer of a given story wants it to be.
And that's the point of this long ridiculous post. It does not matter. If you want to ship Sylki, then do it. Please don't feel bad about it. Don't feel like you have to justify the ship based on weird DNA arguments. Because the more you get into them, the weirder they get. If you don't like the ship, that's fine, but don't moralize about the DNA of imaginary gods from different timelines.
i feel like one of the things that's interesting to me about the Large Amount of Loki Ship Wank is, the idea that "a man and women (or two genderfluid people presenting as a man and a woman) look at each other and instantly are in love" is one of the criticisms I've seen,
and I can see where it's coming from, to a degree, but because I don't actually agree, it's sparked a lot of messy bisexual indecisive thoughts on: the idea of shipping, romantic tropes/shorthand, what makes a ship compelling, etc. So I'm gonna share em.
warning: discussions of a selfcest ship
does the idea of Sylvie and Loki move fast? yes, I'd say. they have a few conversations during one-ish episode (in which many people evidently interpreted them as "sibling like". I did not, personally.) I wasn't expecting romance, not at all, but they did immediately discuss their experience with love, and Loki did serenade her so, y'know. I was surprised to see it acknowledged in text, but not shocked either.
Maybe I wasn't surprised in part because,
marvel does kinda have a history of using Romo Shorthand to shoehorn het relationships into every product ever, Right? I would say so. Obviously shipping isn't an objective thing, but I've never been impressed with most of marvel's romantic writing. Het-wise (because I have never been under the impression my gay ships will actually go canon), I was mainly rooting for Clint and Natasha, and it was the one thing that didn't happen. I liked it because they seemed to have a real bond, a friendship, a history together, and so on. And they were intriguing! they were both enigmas, it made me want to know more about their relationship from the amount we saw- neither of them even had a solo movie, and I was still more invested than any mainstream MCU canon romance ever. Sobs
To be fair, I am generally also neutral/cool with Pepperony, and I like the idea of MJ and Peter, I think that's because in both cases there's some time spent establishing them, but neither of them are things I'm super duper compelled by. They're just okay. I did, however, stan Jemma and Fitz from Agents of SHIELD quite hard, again, because they were friends! lab-mates! plus, they had pining, and it was good.
A least a few of marvel's (mainstream MCU blockbuster) ships are not born out of demonstrating they have a prior relationship and building it up from friendship/connection, but are somewhat whirlwind romances where the characters get a few moments to moon over each other, then Marvel falls into the trap of relying on tropes and cues to build what a romance first, and a friendship second? or perhaps not at all. And, it's not like a modern Disney princess movie or romcom where they meet, have a Spark/Connection and then go on a journey together, learning about each other and themselves through the process. No, for some of the main MCU "romances", the het couple get a few moments sprinkled throughout the shooting and fighting and KABLAM action, and kiss at the end.
And like, I know they are superhero movies so, like, don't go to the circus and expect not to see fighting and shoot-shoot KABLAM but like. but they're the ones who keep writing (het) romance into most of their products. It doesn't need to be in all of them. Maybe in some cases it'd be better to dedicate those few extra minutes to the platonic relationships that matter. I find MCU is, historically, better at writing compelling platonic relationships (and platonic relationships between men that, if they were het, would absolutely be romances!! but ugh we're not getting into that-)
I'm someone who loves romance & character driven stuff, so I (usually) like them to work a little bit harder for the romance, not just a look and a kiss. Build up that relationship! talk about yourselves! show me you're friends, that you have each other's backs, and show me longing gazes and little jokes as you fall for each other!!!
So I definitely, fully understand why people dislike those rushed-feeling, always het romances. I do, too.
But, I'm lowkey (lol) on board with Sylvie and Loki. Even after only 2ish episodes with them interacting. Mind you, I'm also on board with Loki and Mobius. I like the idea of both. Indecisive bisexual, here.
If hate fast, cheap, shoehorn romance, why like Sylki? For me, because of the discussions they had, and their potential dynamic. What I saw in their interactions was Loki, the main character, immediately intrigued by the idea of an alternate universe version of himself. He was relying on and trusting her more quickly than he might otherwise. They have interesting and unique personalities- She's had an extremely different life than he has, he goofs off to cope, she's cranky and bitter. That's a fun dynamic.
They're also quick to open up to each other, not just looking at each other and signaling interest for no other reason, but talking about things that matter to them, their history, what it means to be themselves, how they define themselves etc, which is a pretty deep and signifcant topic.
As well, this being a tv show and not a film, they miiight have the potential to develop their relationship further, if that's the direction they're going in. I long for a relationship that doesn't end with the "i love you" or The KissTM, one that's depicted without shoehorned overblown drama, fighting, etc. One that is part of a narrative and grows with the characters!! Now, I'm not getting my hopes up. I don't know if they'd get that far with Sylki, seems like kind of a long shot given the track record here, but a girl can fuckin dream, eh?
Even if I've been historically unimpressed by most of marvel's het ships, I feel like they have more potential and more basis than I've seen in other romantic ships. Also, helps I have no longstanding Loki ship that's competing against, we only had Lokius for like two weeks before Sylvie was introduced.
But... you also like Lokius? yeah, I contain multitudes. And, I will argue that Lokius and Sylki have, like, a similar amount of in-text backing, and both have neat potential. Loki's been (perhaps surprisingly?) vulnerable with the both of them, seems to like them both as people, and as confidants, and wants both of them on his side. He seems to believe in both of them, for whatever reason, and I think his faith in them is going to bode well for him and be instrumental in the plot.
I personally kind of get the vibe Loki's interactions with Sylvie are a bit more romantic in nature than with Mobius. Additionally, Mobius seems at least a bit romantically interested in Loki (he really did come across as jealous, anyway lol). However, I don't really get the vibe Sylvie has been acting romantically towards Loki.
So I see the canon standing at: Mobius likes Loki, Loki likes Sylvie, Sylvie is tired of this TVA shit.
Unless.... Loki's potential feelings towards Sylvie are a total fakeout, which also wouldn't be a shock, to me. I know people have pointed out, different writers/actors/directors have commented but I'm not paying much attention to that, I'd rather finish the show first and form my own opinion. even if they're not canon, I think either ship would be fun to play around with.
In conclusion: the biggest brained thing marvel could do is throw out the idea of love triangles and canonize poly Loki who falls in love with Sylvie and with Mobius and they're all like "well we're already all variants going against this Time Regime might as well date who we want" . or i guess let them be single ppbbbbtt.
And finally, I'd like to reiterate that shipping is subjective, our likes are subjective. The dynamics I find interesting are not necessarily what other people find interesting, and that's okay!! we all take different things from the narratives presented from us. and it DOES suck when something we liked, or we saw, goes unexplored in the narrative, especially when it's in favor of something we didn't like or don't find compelling (speaking from just so much experience) .
But, such is the nature of getting invested in stories, especially ones created to appeal to a very wide audience. They're never going to cater 100% to what we individually want unless we're writing them (and even then, writing is a hard creative process and doesn't even always turn out how one might expect, like any other artform).
my advice is: take what you want and leave the rest (while not trying to enforce your Best Version Of Events on others via replies/dms/comments on their works, etc)
thanks for coming to my tedtalk!!
Hey what did you think of the Loki show? I don’t like that they could have essentially made that show with any character, nothing was really unique to Loki specifically.
This could be a can of worms for some people, but for me, the Loki show had both a lot of positives and an incredible amount of negatives.
In my opinion, so the show was slow at the start, it kept to what we would have expected. It gave us a good general basis of the TVA and what they stand for and what they do. It begins quite quickly to imply it's not all it seems and I think that's good. The stars were introduced. Mobius and Renslayer are very well cast and depicted especially, B-15 gets added depth in later episodes. I also liked the idea of "it takes a Loki to catch a Loki" too, it added something to it. I also liked the idea of seeing some of the variants of Loki. The edition of the Tour de France Loki was something I could not stop laughing at as a cycling fan. Even having a lady!Loki and mixing it with Sylvie from the comics was okay to me. Because of the show, we now have images of different Loki's and different scenarios that Loki can be in that we never had before so if nothing else I am incredibly grateful for the visualisation of this.
I liked that we got to see some more of Loki's abilities though not as frequently as I would have liked to have seen them.
To me, my personal favourite episode was episode 5. Classic Loki actually caused me to cry. Richard E Grant played him perfectly. The other variants from that episode were brilliant too. Kid!Loki was also fantastic and you can see that the actor wanted to do him justice. The knowledge that he followed Tom around is fucking adorable.
But of course like everything it's not perfect and there are a few things I'm not personally loving about it.
Firstly, I want to say that Sophie was amazing. Her facial expressions and her attitude were incredibly "Loki-esque". Even a lot of her methods would be what you would accuse of being very on point for a Loki. The only issue I have is that she seemed to become the central character and not Tom Hiddleston's Loki which was what 99% of us tuned in to watch. They damaged OG!Loki to bring hers up and I never like that in a show/movie when it is done for shitty reasons. OG!Loki and Sylvie Loki could have been central characters that conflicted and worked together so well. OG!Loki has worked with those he disliked in the past, this too could have been done. I did not get the lovers vibe. I felt they had an incredible sibling dynamic, they really, especially in the Lamentis episode. I also didn't get the "Lokius" ship either, but whatever makes people happy.
I do actually look forward to seeing what happens in the next season. I am sure I read somewhere Herron is not coming back and I honestly think they need to get some writers on board that have at least read some footnotes on Loki's appearance in other movies but it has a lot of potential. I cannot wait to see if he has more to do with Dr Strange., they would be an interesting longer-term onscreen pairing.
Ok I'm just idea dumping straight out of my brain here but modern/no powers AU where Thor, Loki, & Hela are siblings (Loki's still adopted but they were all raised together) who've been estranged since their mother's death & then have to awkwardly come back together for Odin's funeral (I'm thinking he's like a CEO or something in this so there's business empire questions at stake also).
I imagine Thor is like "well he made some mistakes but he was a wise man and a good father"
And Loki's just over here like
Whereas Hela acts like she'll be professional about stuff during the ceremony and then out of nowhere just gives an entire speech about how much she freaking hates Odin and Loki is like "DID NOT EXPECT THIS BUT GO OFF" while Thor gets very upset.
Heimdall is there but he isn't loud about his opinions of Odin, he's professional publicly and is a lot more concerned with keeping things civil than who's right or wrong, but in private he admits that the business (and the family) most likely only ever stayed together because he went against Odin's wishes.
And I think Loki is very conflicted because he didn't see the worst OR the best of Odin and he pretends he doesn't care about his approval but actually he really does and he never got it.
And they all think they want to inherit Odin's position but actually they all have different emotional reasons for finding a need to compete, none of which are "I would genuinely do well at running a huge corporation and be happy" but tHAT WON'T STOP THEM FROM FIGHTING OVER IT
In the end they all have to figure out their differences and decide how to move on as a family.
Thor has to understand that the man he idolized really wasn't so great, Hela has to let go of her bitterness enough to actually move on, and Loki has to figure out what he wants other than just what he was deprived of.
ALSO Sylvie is there and she's Loki's bio sibling who grew up totally separate from all of them and is like "don't know any of you and I'm only related to one person here but I'll stay for the drama I guess" because Thor organized a lot of this and he was like "hey, Loki has another relative we were never in contact with, I should invite her so he has some bio family to hang out with" and it's a m i s t a k e because together they are DOUBLY chaotic, especially because Sylvie brings her girlfriend Val who (small world) used to be a higher-up in the company but left due to personal reasons years ago and also shows up to the funeral with booze
I imagine it's like a week-long thing where they're all stuck in a hotel or a private mansion together and the funeral is on like the 2nd day after everyone flies in and then after that it's just figuring out what to do business-wise, which Sylvie literally does not need to be there for but Valkyrie's like "nah I have opinions now. I'm staying" so Sylvie does too, and once they all figure out how not to hate each other she actually kinda doesn't mind having something resembling a family around even if they're a mess, bc even though she did okay in life and found a great partner she was orphaned young and spent a lot of her childhood running away from foster homes, so she's really not used to having a tribe, per se.
Anyway a lot happens, other associated rich people are offended, people cry, people laugh until they cry, people get drunk and say stuff they didn't intend to, but it ends with the the three Odinson siblings deciding to just live their lives as a family and not a business, Sylvie being basically adopted into the fold, and of course Valkyrie getting the position ✨
It's like a weird angsty dark comedy I guess?? But sometimes heartwarming??? Idk. Also if anyone wants to write this, feel free, but credit me pls and most importantly LINK IT, I WANNA READ MY OWN IDEAS LOL
Hey so I can't stop thinking about Loki kiss as in why was Kang the conqueror included? This was weird enough for me that I measured the time of the kiss (about 9 seconds) and I measured the time that Kang was included (about 3 seconds). During about one third of the sylki kiss we could watch kang watch them kiss. Sylvie kisses Loki, they move and the camera moves with them but then, instead of stopping on them front and center, it includes blurry Kang. Who's just sitting there. Watching them. Was that supposed to be awkward/funny? Or dramatic bc Kang is so dangerous (even if he really doesn't seem to be)? Or make the whole thing just this bit weirder? Like it just makes no sense to me?? What was that about? (im asking here bc i genuinely would like to know the reason but anyway feel free to ignore me and release yourself of this ughh)
inatshej asked: Okay um I'm sorry about my previous ask about loki kissing scene. I just realised that kang was visible to foreshadow the ending where Sylvie still decided to kill him. That even if things seem to be going in the right direction (LOL if you ship sylki MAYBE), something bad can still happen, and happens. So yeah sorry xD took me a few hours to figure it out by myself tho xD
(just an heads up, if anyone is wondering why this question interests me, is because I was posting about LOKI during its runtime, in case you missed it) [FINAL THOUGHTS HERE]
** SPOILERS FOR LOKI **
Hahahah no worries at all!
Here's my thing about Si1ki: I have no problem with the ship (I mean, I ship Sherlock with himself sometimes, so I would be a hypocrite if I shat on the ship), but I JUST DON'T SEE IT; it felt REALLY forced. I understand the metaphor they were trying to go for (you need to love yourself before others) but like.... the WHOLE "romance" felt weird. Mobius, ON SCREEN, even said it was "sick and twisted", so like, once he said that, I couldn't unsee it, and I think that was the problem: You on screen still acknowledge it, yet you still go with it.
Almost like Disney is more okay with anything else than they are with queer relationships. But I digress.
Please note I am speaking from a Loki X Mobius bias, so take what you will from my thoughts. It felt like they really were gonna go there. But I'm the clown in believing Disney, after canonically confirming Loki's bisexuality, would go there. It's performative activism, and Disney, heaven forbid, have a story with a male and female lead and NOT make them romantic interests... It's SO TIRING. Because up until the weird... THING in Episode 4, I had high hopes they were gonna go the BFF's / sibling dynamic, but yeah, the romance felt REALLY forced and weird, and the kiss even moreso.
I don't think she really liked Loki "That Way", and used Loki's confused feelings against him. I say that because she REALLY showed NO interest in the whole thing they had in Episode 5, and he's just SO desperate for love and companionship that I think he is will take what he can get. The Lokius Hug in E5 felt REALLY genuine, like two people who care and understand each other, and two people who – if nothing else – share a platonic Philia love for each other. AND they had a chemistry that shined on screen. I don't FEEL that with Loki and Sylvie. They care about each other, that's all I really got out of it.
If they were writing a romance, I PERSONALLY thought it was poorly written and executed even worse. The kiss was cringe, didn't make the romance "more real" and didn't give me the same vibes that the hug did, and it SHOULDN'T do that if it was well written. BUT I've never been in any serious relationship ever, so what do I know. Maybe I'm just too ace to "get the clues" but even movies where I KNOW that the main characters are supposed to be together, I feel the chemistry. I love both Tom and Sophia as their characters, but the "romantic" chemistry wasn't there.
Anyway, just my own gripe about it all.
BUT YES, your second ask in regards to Kang being there is also how I took it, and the kiss was a distraction. He knew what she was going to do; he studied her character all his life, he KNEW she wasn't going to just NOT do it. She never had the love of her family, and bitterness and resentment is all she knew. She didn't get to go through the character arc / development that our 2012 Loki got to, and HONESTLY? I think it's because she didn't HAVE someone like Mobius who believed in her. And Loki knew that, and unfortunately, his verbal trust in her came too late.
That said, I think we'll see her again, but I don't think she's gonna ever be a "good guy"; she'll be a morally grey character like MCU Loki was, and will probably go out in the same way, somehow.
I do like her, I just REALLY felt like the whole romance was shoehorned in by some top exec at Disney who thought it wouldn't be successful without one.
LOKI EPISODE 6 SPOILERS AHEAD!!
Please scroll if you do NOT want spoilers!
(Also scroll if you do not like reading about people's opinions)
Let me preface this post by saying that Loki has been my favorite character since before his debut in the first Thor movie.
If you have read the comics then you know that Loki's character is inherently queer. It is a core fact about him.
Let me also say that every artist interprets things differently when making someone else's work their own. I would be the first to say that no interpretation of art is incorrect, however every representation of queer characters isn't. As a queer person I have always latched onto Loki's character. He was a character I could empathize with and could see myself in even before the confirmation that he was bi in episode 3.
To cut to the chase: I prefer blatant homophobia over covert homophobia.
For those who have seen my other posts, I am a fan of Sherlock which is notorious for it's mishandling of queer characters (ie Irene Adler) and it's blatant queer-bating. Sexuality and gender identity are fluid. A label is not a fixed thing. However, in media it's better to be simplistic and aware when it comes to representation.
I have long been disavowed of my naive hope of having true representation in media, and ESPECIALLY from Disney.
Not only is Sylvie and Loki's relationship (in my opinion) morally incorrect, but it also makes no sense from a story and character standpoint.
We have seen that up until this point, Loki has trusted no one and had not allowed his emotions (such as his love for Frigga and Thor) to affect his goals. How is it that for a character that truly trusts no one, and hates himself that he can fall in love with someone else, let alone himself in under 24 hours. Let us not forget the fact that he was willing to destroy an entire race, (the frost Giants) his race to prove his fealty to Asgard. Loki has never accepted his true identity, has never accepted the love of his family, but can accept and fall in love with a variant of himself in one day.
It makes me wonder, if Sylvie were male presenting or looked like Loki would people still be okay with this relationship. I have had people tell me that this development was the natural next step in their relationship, which is baffling to me.
Loki has always craved love. He craved love and acceptance from Thor and Odin. He always wanted to feel like he belonged. To me it was the only natural thing for Loki to fulfill his want for familial love with Sylvie.
He has always had a tumultuous relationship with Thor, and it would have been beautiful for him to have a healthy sibling relationship with Sylvie. To have the relationship he could never have with Thor.
I am not dumb. I knew that Disney would NEVER have a blatant and proud queer relationship (Mobius x Loki), but I never expected then to prefer heterosexual selfcest over homosexuality. I would have preferred Loki to stay single.
To end, I would like to say that this episode was disappointing and more hurtful to the LGBTQIA+ than helpful.
(As always, this is just my opinion and you are ABSOLUTELY entitled to disagree with me. BUT, this is a hill I will die on.)
okay I’m sorry but I don’t wanna see any Sylvie/Loki shipping out here like - they definitely had some kind of tension but I felt absolutely. zero. chemistry. between them. and there’s a big difference between tension and chemistry. not to mention it’s a little weird if they’re the same person (they’re possibly not??? but who knows with marvel???), even if that’s not the case though I felt nothing for these two characters together. I think there’s an understanding between them, but I will cringe so hard if they turn this into a romantic relationship. I see them more as siblings - like Sylvie understands him in a way that Loki wishes Thor could’ve.
⚠️ Loki ep4 spoilers ⚠️
I saw 2 (contradictory) opinions about why Sylvki would be okay (I promise, after that I stop talking about it).
But, they are not the same person!
That is true, we can't deny it. They have different personalities. But if you talk about DNA... I am sorry to break it to you, but from what we know, Sylvie strayed from the Sacred Timeline when she was between 10 and 13 (if the asgardians grow the same way we do). She had been on Asgard for a long time, so her birth wasn't the Nexus event, so she was born as Loki. Therefore, she has the same DNA (or asgardian equivalent) and the same parents as Loki.
So even if they are not the same person, they are more like two siblings or twins that never met each other than two people who have nothing in common.
It is because Loki is a narcissist, it is logical that he loves himself!
Well, as I said before, even if they have the same DNA and are 2 variants of the same person, they are not the same. They have different looks and personnalities. It is not self-love. Loki would be in love with another version of himself, maybe a version he finds better, I don't know, but he doesn't love himself.
And yes, it could be logical that he loves Sylvie. But loving and being in love are not the same thing. He can love her without it being romantic. Do you know lots of people who are in love with themselves? Love doesn't have to be romantic and self love is never romantic.
And, finally, if the variant didn't look different from the Loki we know, would it still be okay? If it was exactly the same person Sylvie is, but with Tom's face, would it be fine? Because, Sylvie and Loki don't have the same face, but they could. He could have met another Loki who looked like him. If your argument is that it is logical he falls in love with himself, would he fall in love with that variant? Would you still find it okay?