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goddessofwisdom18 · 17 days

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your favorite character being largely disliked by both the stans and the antis is actually so devastating. where am i supposed to go

there are three main opinions about mor in this fandom:

1. she’s fine bc she’s feyre’s bestie but you don’t really care about her personally (probably bc she’s queer because the stan girlies used to LOVE mor when moriel was semi-canon. i remember. i was there)

2. she’s fine but annoying bc she ~lead azriel on~ (main opinion on the acotar subreddit). never mind that if this was true, it would be as a result of a retcon, because again, pre acowar, moriel was going to be canon. sarah made mor sapphic because we were asking for more lgbt characters. (again. i was there.) and besides, i frankly don't think it is true, because azriel is the fucking spymaster with a million chances of knowledge at his fingertips and mor spent 80% of her time at a gay bar so idk how he couldn't have fucking known?

3. or she’s the fucking worst because she was. idk. mean to nesta. you know who else was mean??? and people love that about her because it's a result of trauma, it makes her flawed and relatable? literally nesta T_T this is not anti nesta i just don’t get it.

4. she's the fucking worst because she… supposedly lied about eris? ?? i'm not even going to begin to unpack this. why y'all IMMEDIATELY take the man's side and think what he's saying is bible… i don't fucking know. learn to decenter men in your life my friend. sometimes women ARE telling the truth even if they're basic or pick mes or whatever.

mor’s traumatized as hell and definitely has as much to back up her occasional cattiness as nesta had to back up her literal life long bullying. but few people will give her a feminist reading. few people will analyze how sarah wrote her story or what that means. few people will even give her credit as a real villain. she’s just an annoying pick-me bitch and that’s the end of it.

think about the lack of grace rhysand gives nesta. think about what that might mean for mor, to whom rhys (and his friends) was a sort of savior, because her life in the hewn city was that bad that somehow dealing with rhysand is better. that was who she grew up with; that was what she was taught to see as good because at least it wasn’t keir.

not to mention that her life is shaped around her survival via her desirability to males. ESPECIALLY as a sapphic woman can you imagine what that would do to her psyche?

but no. no fan posts about her. no headcanons. nothing nada. just me and the mor week posts and the occasional obligatory stan reference bc she's part of the main cast.

i understand being annoyed bc of the double standard in canon between her and nesta's heavy drinking, but even then i see posts all the time about "i would love rhys if it weren't for the narrative's worship of him!" and none for mor because she's just a ghost. she's nothing to anybody. despite being A MAIN CHARACTER!

not to mention but like. generally positioning yourself perpetually in opposition to the paradigm rather than just having values whether they're popular or not is not a great way to go about things. i completely understand liking eris regardless of what he's done - i am a tamlin stan despite the fact that he was very well abusive in acomaf - but the fact that there are antis out there who are so convinced mor is lying, or who want sarah to write that storyline, is so digusting to me. women in groups you don't like, political sides you don't like, women you think are annoying - they still deserved to be believed. don't give into respectability politics. come on now.

#im sorry i know this is so stupid #i just like. im so tired.#i've literally loved her since acomaf came out and as much as i was upset about the way sarah handled her coming out i was sooo happy she #was sapphic bc i'm bi and she was already my fave! so like! omfg!#but there is no content out there for her and it drives me insane. i feel so lonely.#morrigan #pro mor #pro morrigan #sjm critical #anti sjm #anti eris #pro inner circle

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thefirstknife · 2 years

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have you seen the biphobia going around about eris? its super fucking gross

Sorry, forgot about this ask in the middle of all the other stuff that's been going on. If I understand it correctly, this is about the ongoing discourse about the ship between Eris and Drifter. I'll go a bit in depth about this because it's been gaining traction recently.

I've definitely seen some biphobic sentiments, yeah. People are really weird when it comes to bisexuality and this fandom is not any different, unfortunately.

The thing to remember, however, is that there is no canon for Eris' sexuality. There is a lot of speculation, but she has never been confirmed as any sexuality. I personally believe she must be some form of wlw, due to the sheer amount of her close relationships with women; Ikora, Mara, Sai Mota, Eriana-3, the Awoken in general (who are a matriarchal society) and so on.

A post with some details on this + links to other posts about it. Not linked here, but this has been further explored in the Witch Queen Collector's Edition book where Eris explicitly says she felt an "emotional debt" to Mara, that they had some tensions in their relationship that "remained private," and that when Eris was wounded, Mara "treated the wounds in what I interpolate was a moment of reconciliation and perhaps genuine tenderness between them."

I find it hard to believe that Eris is not wlw. However, that could mean many things. She could be a lesbian, she could be bisexual/pansexual, she could be ace or aro or both with a preference for women, or biromantic or... You get the idea. We ultimately have no idea and we're only left with speculation.

More under for length:

Some people insist that she must be a lesbian and only a lesbian and that any other interpretation is wrong. I disagree with this! There are so many other options that people should be allowed to explore and we shouldn't insist that she is canonically and objectively one thing when we don't really know. Until there is an unambiguous canonical proof for her sexuality, everyone should be allowed to HC her as they please, as long as they're not entirely erasing her closeness with women.

The same applies for people insisting that she is canonically bisexual. We don't know! I see her as bisexual (mostly because she's my blorbo and I see my blorbos as bisexual). I don't have any hard proof that she is and neither does anyone else. Canon doesn't say either way.

While some people tend to have a visceral reaction to the possibility of her being bi which I would definitely classify as some form of biphobia, there's a difference between people just being biphobic and people expressing their disdain for how Eris' in-game interactions are now largely revolving around men.

As I've said above, Eris has always had incredibly important and close relationships with women. It doesn't matter which type of a relationship they are (platonic, romantic, queerplatonic). Eris has always been heavily surrounded with other women and relied on mostly women with her interactions. Some people are reasonably upset that this has been slightly pushed aside in favour of Eris interacting more with Drifter and Crow and Zavala, rather than women.

She wasn't present at all in Season of the Lost which Bungie explained as them being limited with how many characters can be active in a given season. This is reasonable to me, someone will have to be cut. I do think that cutting Eris from Lost was a mistake however, and that they should've at least kept some of her content in lore, if not in gameplay and cutscenes. It was one of the most crucial turning points that involved her long-time antagonist (Savathun), her long-time friend (Mara) and the people she feels closely connected with (the Awoken).

In Witch Queen, Eris was there, but her appearance was fairly limited and didn't involve a lot of interactions with Ikora, which is odd. Mara showed up again and had no interactions with Eris, again. Eris was mostly interacting with Zavala and Crow and, finally, Drifter who by far gets the most screentime with Eris and has been getting it since Arrivals.

From what I've seen, people are mostly upset about this sudden shift with Eris being mostly paired up with men in lore and gameplay, while her ties to women are either cut entirely, reduced significantly or kept for special lore pieces and then not brought up again for an extended period of time. I've not seen many instances of people just vehemently disagreeing that Eris should never be with a man and that it's impossible for her to be bisexual. Even if she is bisexual, her relationships with women should still matter and not be pushed aside.

Another thing that people have an issue with (me included) is the way some of her lore with Drifter is presented. I don't mind if the plan is for them to be romantically involved. I would be more than happy if my two faves were both bi and were together. The problem I (and others) have is that there's been significant backtracking in the lore between Eris and Drifter since they first interacted in Arrivals.

In Arrivals, they first meet when Drifter is ready to pack and leave the system due to the Pyramids arriving. He always said that it was what he would do when the Darkness comes knocking again. He has always been adamant about being ready to skip town when the main threat returns. Drifter is notoriously afraid of everything and traumatised. He was 100% ready to leave. Until Eris came to ask for his help.

The two sit. They speak. They listen. Linkages forged in Light and Dark of traded secrets as the Derelict hangs in orbit around the Earth. Pacts are made. Soon, there is only the silence of knowing left between them.

They connect. Deeply. They share incomprehensible traumas that have been going on for centuries and they're both people others distrust because of how close they are to Darkness, despite their best efforts to use that closeness to help.

Obviously, since it's their first time working together, things weren't smooth. They sometimes annoyed each other. Contact event dialogues from Arrivals and Prophecy dialogues often had them bickering over their different methods and approach to the threat; Eris is serious, Drifter tries to deflect with humor. It annoys her that he's joking, it annoys him that she is constantly doom and gloom. This makes sense, since it's their first time working together. It takes time to adjust.

In Beyond Light, they work together again and things are smoother between them. They still have their differences, but Eris admits that he is a good ally, a valuable member of the team, that his perspective brings a lot to the table and that they both understand the need for balance. Again, this makes sense. They've worked together for months at this point.

We don't hear from them a lot in the meantime, but we do get some minor hints. For example, Eris seems to have picked up on Drifter's habit to end sentences with "Trust." This would imply that they kept on communicating and that they've been friendly.

It's very strange when they get the spotlight again in Season of the Haunted and they are... bickering again. I thought they moved past that for the most part? It's been 2 years! In the Eidolon Pursuant set, Eris is uncharacteristically distrustful of Drifter, a man whose help she bet on to save the system from both Savathun's interferences and the Darkness itself. She even believed that Drifter would feed her rotted screebs, for some reason, despite the fact that they must've shared meals while working together on Europa. She is surprised when he tells her he wouldn't do that to her and that he is a good cook. She would've reasonably known this?

In this season, they've been bickering again on comms in a very childish way. They keep calling each other derogatory nicknames, despite knowing the other doesn't like them. Their relationship tends to jump all over the place from deep respect to childish bickering and back. It can be jarring. In comparison with the first lore I linked (Whispering Slab), it's so incredibly odd to hear Drifter mocking Eris for "calling him" when she is literally just speaking on a public communication.

Drifter simply isn't like this? And it shows in the lore tab from the seasonal lore book, titled "TRUST" as a callback to Drifter's catchphrase which Eris picked up on. He respects and trusts Eris. He is comfortable around her and minor jokes at his expense (and at hers!) are fine. He respects her space and her orders. He also thought of her and her expertise first to help them with relics.

I appreciate this type of an interaction that makes sense with how long they've been working together. It also makes sense with their personalities; Drifter really isn't the type to continue aggravating someone he respects and Eris isn't the one to tolerate someone being openly aggravating to her. She very clearly disliked Cayde for how he acted with her and she never backed down from her disdain. Drifter is similar in that he tends to use (and overuse) humor to deflect from his pain and trauma, but he doesn't do so when the other person is someone he likes and respects. He is especially not like that in private settings.

A lot of people dislike the way Drifter and Eris sometimes act like the classic trope of a toxic m/f relationship where they have to tease and hate each other because they're actually in love. It's immature and goes against their characterisation. I completely understand people who dislike the ship because this dynamic is being presented in lore sometimes and very often in fandom. That dislike is not inherently biphobic and it has merits especially when lore also cuts all of Eris' relationships with women in order to put Drifter in the center and have him being mean to her. It just makes no sense that Drifter would do this and that Eris would tolerate it. And it also makes no sense that she would ignore her close connections with Ikora or Mara in order to spend time with a man who is mean to her.

However, sometimes people go too far with it and instead of criticising these aspects, they simply criticise the idea of Eris liking a man. Even if their reasons are all I've mentioned above, the way a critique is framed can make a difference between that critique being reasonable or biphobic. Eris can like whoever she wants and her relationships with women aren't less valuable if she likes a man as well.

I definitely wanted to make a comprehensive post about the issue because some of the criticisms of this relationship are valid, especially when that relationship comes at the expense of us not getting more lore on a much more established friendships and relationships in general that Eris has with female characters. I think people wouldn't mind the focus on her and Drifter in the lore if we also got some new lore of her and Mara or Ikora.

It's important to understand what aspect of this people have a problem with, because for the most part, it's NOT simply about Eris possibly being bisexual. But also, people should be careful with how they phrase these criticisms because it can definitely be read as biphobia.

#destiny 2 #eris #drifter #long post #ask #me when i get an ask: is this a good opportunity to write an essay? well yes of course #i've seen a lot of stuff on this tho so it bears being repeated #we don't have any canon on what is eris' sexuality so everybody can only have their headcanons #please don't claim she is only one or only the other. we don't know.#some people see her as a lesbian and some see her as bisexual. until we know more there's no way to tell.#there are also legitimate reasons to dislike the direction of drifteris. but also please be mindful of how those reasons are worded #there's a LOT of stuff around where bisexual people in m/f relationships are seen as 'lesser' in lgbt+ circles #and it's just gross. not to mention that drifter is actually legit bi/pan #so if eris is too they are bi4bi #but also bungie pls write them normally. we don't need the childish bickering to prove a man and a woman might like each other #being mean to one another is not attractive. also get rid of the slur

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