#feyre and rhys are characters who are so full of themselves | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

merymoonbeam · 1 year

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With all due respect, I’m not the one who needs to get a life. There is a large amount of gwynriel fan art - especially of that scene where Azriel rescues Gwyn. However, there has only been one creator who has depicted Azriel as shirtless. And, of all the countless (!) gwynriel shippers, only a select few people have made comments calling the scene ‘passionate’ (keeping in mind that for many, English isn’t their first language…)

And, even if you do have an issue with how this particular scene is being portrayed by some people in the fandom - why can’t we simply have a conversation about it? Especially given that the people elriels are ganging up on (who are real life people - not fictional!), could very well be SA survivors themselves. But instead, and as always, the default mode for elriels is aggression and hostility. I actually used to ship elriel myself, but couldn’t stomach being part of a community that is full of so much hatred.

You are also incorrect in saying that the comparison I made is like “apples and pears.” Literally just google search ‘Feyre and Rhys Under the Mountain’ to see COUNTLESS art pieces of Feyre dancing over Rhys’s body, or any other scene from the first book (which was incredibly traumatic for Feyre, and something that Rhys himself acknowledges was awful) but is instead made to look like this super sexy scene between the two of them. I’ve seen art of Rhys twisting Feyre’s broken arm as he winks, or art of Rhys drugging Feyre, and kissing her as tears fall down her face in disgust. Yet, I don’t hear the same outcry. As far as I can tell, gwynriels aren’t producing art of Gwyn being assaulted… yet there’s a myriad of art pieces of Feyre being assaulted (which is then also romanticised! By other elriels too!)

As for your point about Gwyn (potentially) being a morally gray character - sure, no one’s denying that. Anything is possible in SJM books. But, the lightsinger theory, by extension, suggests that Gwyn is lying about her past. It’s also in poor taste to suggest that the character who has endured extreme sexual violence is ‘luring’ Azriel as a means to get between him and another girl. If elriels care so much about how Gwyn’s SA is portrayed (to the extent that they’ll go after gwynriels who don’t paint it in a way they deem appropriate), then why doesn’t that apply to your theories as well? Or even how you all talk about Gwyn online…?

Do you care (or even listen) when gwynriels and other people in the fandom have spoken out about how so much of the discourse elriels engage in is actively harmful to SA survivors (and spreads a really gross and incorrect rhetoric?) Or, is it just another chance to dog pile on, and demean people in the fandom who just so happen to have a different shipping preference to you…?

let's go bit by bit again shall we...

TW: SA

With all due respect, I’m not the one who needs to get a life.

you are the one who is sending me anon defending the romanticizing of Gwyn's SA...so yeah. get a life.

There is a large amount of gwynriel fan art - especially of that scene where Azriel rescues Gwyn. However, there has only been one creator who has depicted Azriel as shirtless. And, of all the countless (!) gwynriel shippers, only a select few people have made comments calling the scene ‘passionate’ (keeping in mind that for many, English isn’t their first language…)

so you accept that you guys use that scene to show "gwynriel"? the scene that didn't happen in the book but you are altering the scene to show gwynriel? Did I get that right?

there is so many of that scene where azriel is naked. I see them daily. Like come on... don't lie. He is shirtless in nearly 90% of them.

and english being their or any ones second language doesn't give them the right to be careless about their language. English is my second language and I use Google translate when I don't know a meaning of the word or to check if I'm correct about the meaning and use it correctly. So get out of here with that mindset. they can use Google translate like me or any other translator. that is not an excuse to use that word or doesn't give them any right to be so careless. and passionate is not a hard word to know like...it is a word I learned early on when I started learning english so...

Especially given that the people elriels are ganging up on (who are real life people - not fictional!), could very well be SA survivors themselves. But instead, and as always, the default mode for elriels is aggression and hostility. I actually used to ship elriel myself, but couldn’t stomach being part of a community that is full of so much hatred.

the fact that when elriels speak up about a fanart being triggering for SA survivors beeing seen as ganging up on a real person is...just weird.

And there is this stigma that when a person is from a country or from an ethnicity or have some type of trauma that doesn't mean whatever they do or say about that situation is right. When other people who is from that country or ethnicity or have that trauma as well say that thing is wrong or triggering it should be listened not get their comments deleted or get blocked. and this case that artist is deleting comments and blocking people who is spoken about that art being triggering or any other situation closer to this.

and I don't see elriels as hostile sure there is bad apples in every fandom but where is your standart against gwynriels who bullied artists out of the fandom or bullied people to closing their accounts or people who got ban from gwynriels reporting their fanarts? Why are we not talking about that? if there is 3 elriel bad apples there is 100 of gwynriels bullying elriels left and right. but bc of their numbers they are more heard bc they are louder. when we raise our voice about something, we are shown as "ganging up on the artist or whatever".

I googled. only saw one. other fanarts are with either the twins nuala and cerridwen or Feyre as alone. and those other fanarts with feyre sitting on rhys' lab is from acomaf lol. Get that right.

and if there is anything else I have never seen them.

I’ve seen art of Rhys twisting Feyre’s broken arm as he winks, or art of Rhys drugging Feyre, and kissing her as tears fall down her face in disgust. Yet, I don’t hear the same outcry.As far as I can tell, gwynriels aren’t producing art of Gwyn being assaulted… yet there’s a myriad of art pieces of Feyre being assaulted (which is then also romanticised! By other elriels too!)

I didn't see it. and if you did why are you not talking about it in your blog? coming to me using this to defend romanticizing gwyn's sa...LIKE ???????

I only saw one fanart of Rhys' holding Feyre's arm and it was done way before I joined the fandom. What do you want me to do about that? Go talk about a fanart that was done years ago when I didn't have any clue who sjm was?

and the issue is not about gwyn's assult being show...it is Gwyn's trauma is being used as a way to get a point for gwynriel. Literally this is what I'm trying to explain but you don't get it and trying to justify it to me by using Feysand fanarts that I can't seem to find.

lying about her past? lmfao. Lightsinger theory doesn't say or show that. I don't get it. WHAT? I'm confused. It is a theory to explain why she is glowing when she sings or shadows singing in answer to her breath like nesta's power did. that's all about it. where did you get that for real?

maybe it isn't to get between the girl and the guy but there is an another reason. literally you guys made yourselves believe that gwyn is a love interest for azriel and when we theorise she could be a lightsinger you are saying we are making gwyn be in between azriel and elain. lol no. That's not it at all. it is just that we are theorising why this girl glows when she signs and all those singing reference in the bonus. I can literally give two shits about gwyn coming in between azriel and elain.

do you mean when we said Gwyn might not be ready bc she hasn't shown anything about being ready and at the end of the book went back to library which is the place she went in the first place bc of her trauma and Gwynriels started assuming about her being ready and drew her in extreme sexual positions(I'm talking bdsm and all) and other SA survivors also talked about how we shouldn't assume she is ready and then we were made villains bc gwynriels twisted our words to "elriels say gwyn can't have sex bc she is SA" if you are talking about that...READ THIS AGAIN. I explained. you are not the one who is dog pile on for shipping another "couple"...we are.

Okay. Bye now.

#anon ask #I'm done.#wtf is this.#I'm not answeing anything after this...bc what is this??????#TW SA

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stargirlfeyre · 11 months

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“Thank you so much for this. Lucien is my favorite, I’m waiting for his book. I get that Feyre felt betrayed by him for not stepping in more, but he was trying. He really did try to steer Tamlin in the right direction, but he was walking a fine line between her and his best friend who was really the only family he had. The mistrust they treat him with in WaR and then Feyre’s ugliness toward him in ACoFaS really made me not like her. This poor guy can’t catch a break.”

“There are many reasons that Feyre is my least favorite character now, but my number one reason is the way she treats poor Lucien. That just sealed the deal for me in this run through. I would never expect for someone I knew for .2 seconds to sacrifice themselves for me after I murdered and skinned their friend, much less get MAD at them for not doing it. Ugh.”

“Omg YES I'm sorry but he experienced horrific trauma, had his friend murdered, risked everything to help Feyre UTM, was tortured for helping, and then was for whatever reason expected to put his life and world at risk to get her away from his best friend?? All for someone he BARELY knew. And now, his whole life is in shambles, he was taken away from the place he knew, and is treated like crap for what? Not sacrificing his life for some a girl he owed nothing to? I'm just over the Lucien mistreatment 😭😭 I wish I didn't reread this bc now I dislike Feyre and Rhys”

“I forgot about the Andras part but that makes it even worse!! He knew Feyre for like 2 seconds before UTM and he STILL tried to help her even tho she killed and skinned one of his friends. Rhys mentioned before how some of his questionable actions were for the sake of his court and people melt over it but for some reason, Lucien can’t do the same. Even when, in my opinion, he hasn’t done anything nearly as bad. It’s just ridiculous how people will absolutely love one character and hate the other when they’re all morally grey. I’m personally not a fan of Feyre or Rhys after SF but I can understand why they did most of the things they did but I will never forgive them for the way they treated and continue to treat Lucien”

“I definitely agree, I made a post a couple days ago about Tamlin because I think even he is treated unfairly by Feyre, Rhys and everyone in the IC. And if I were Lucien, I wouldn't betray the one person who saved my life and took me in for someone I barely knew, for someone who killed my friend and hated everything I was just a couple months ago. Not to mention, he did try to help at one point and got shut down by Tam immediately. Idk why he was expected to give up everything for somebody he wasn't even friends with, let's be real.”

Just a little taste of why I could give 0 fucks about Feycien..His whole fanbase is trash minus the few Tamlin and Feyre stan’s that still simp for him. This is a new post full of comments JUST like these ones. This is a daily thing for Lucien stan’s just like Nesta & Tamlin stan’s Feycien girlies..Like him no matter what but his fans could give two fucks about Feyre

“Feyre’s ugliness toward him in ACoFaS really made me not like her. This poor guy can’t catch a break.”

“but my number one reason is the way she treats poor Lucien.”

“then was for whatever reason expected to put his life and world at risk to get her away from his best friend??”

“I made a post a couple days ago about Tamlin because I think even he is treated unfairly by Feyre, Rhys and everyone in the IC. And if I were Lucien, I wouldn't betray the one person who saved my life and took me in for someone I barely knew, for someone who killed my friend and hated everything I was just a couple months ago.”

Oh these people are fucked in the head. They can’t be serious. For all their talk of “not babying the inner circle because they’re centuries old and they should have been more knowledgeable about how to handle Nesta” they sure do love to blame a 19 year old girl for the actions of centuries old men. These are the same people who say anything Nesta says or does to the inner circle shouldn’t be taken seriously by them because “she’s a 25 year old child🥺”

“Poor Lucien” this nigga isn’t a baby. What’s this obsession with infantilizing him? They say we infantilize Feyre by calling her Nesta and Elain’s “baby sister” (even though she is. Feyre is the youngest making her the baby of the family) but they’re out treating this 300+ year old man like a child who’s been wrong by the world.

“And if I were Lucien, I wouldn't betray the one person who saved my life and took me in for someone I barely knew” do these people realize that they’re admitting that they would sit back and watch someone be physically abused if they’re friend was doing it? They’re seriously it a “betrayal”?

The saddest thing about this is I know a lot of the people behind the accounts saying this are women. Grown ass women at that.

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nikethestatue · 2 years

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It's very weird that those stans always end up finding anti g*yn/g*ynriel & anti vals posts even if the post is tagged correctly. One just can't talk about how they don't like these characters in peace without them throwing a tantrum over it.

We can't dislike g*yn or even make a theory about her being a LS because she's a victim, we can't hate l*cien because he's been through so much but they can hate on elain, feyre, mor and rhys (all of whom are survivors) all the time.

Also where's this sexual tension and chemistry between e/ucien? Elain can't stand him and they call this romance lmao

I think that Gwynriels are really deluding themselves when they think that SJM couldn't make Gwyn a negative character. Just like she could potentially do with Elain.

'Always bad'--probably not. Somewhat bad? Totally. Enchanted. Possessed. Influenced. Absolutely.

This think that her SA is like a cart blanche--she is infallible and could never be made into anything other than a perfect person. SJM pretty much takes almost every messed up character and makes them even worse, before she makes them better.

Tamlin was abused--he is still a dick.

Dorian was possessed.

Danika died and turned out to be a liar, who couldn't tell her own BF anything about what she was doing. Even that she was mated.

Tharion--sold his soul to a witch.

Lucien was physically and sexually abused--still was willing to use force on Feyre and bring her back to his abusive friend Tamlin.

Manon was abused, but ended up killing her own sister.

Chaol--severe parental abuse and still was a dick to Celaena.

Eris--abused, still a dick.

Even Merrill--hangs out in the Library, full of abused women, still a dick.

Rhys--severely abused, but some of his methods are questionable at best.

I can go on and on.

There is a reason SJM is making Gwyn an LS. And if her fans think it's because she is going to be singing duets with Azriel, that would be very incorrect.

It's okay to be grey and interesting. No one wants to read about 'perfect' characters.

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bookofmirth · 2 years

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hi!!

I've seen a lot of posts lately that say Feyre is an unreliable narrator. And usually that Nesta's perspective is more true or more reliable. Can I have your thoughts? Because while Feyre's perspective is one interpretation of events, I never thought she was actually unreliable so now I'm not sure

Hello!

Yeah, the idea that Nesta herself, as a character, is more "reliable" than Feyre, doesn't make sense to me. I can't help but wonder if people are using this as another "here is why Nesta is better than Feyre" argument, since people gotta be pitting them against one another.

(I haven't really been on tumblr the last 4-5 days so idk who is making these arguments or what they are like, just to preface this. I also got some new nails so typing on my laptop is fun!)

Characters could be unreliable for two reasons:

They don't have all the information or have been lied to, or

They are intentionally misleading the reader

#2 isn't true, I think we can all agree on that, while #1 was true for both Feyre and Nesta. Neither of them are trying to lie to the reader, and neither of them have the full truth at any one time; all of us are always inherently restricted to seeing the world through our own perspective.

The main issue here is the voice acotar is written in. Feyre's books are written in first-person, which inherently restricts us to knowing what she knows - although, really skilled writers can still tell the reader more than what the character knows, without the character actually knowing it. Eleanor Oliphant Is Completely Fine is one of those books. Anyway, SJM has written Feyre in first person in a way that makes her knowledge of the fae world limited. That doesn't make her unreliable in the sense that she is lying to us, she just doesn't know things. And for acotar-war, that works - we get to learn about the world as Feyre does.

acosf was written in third person close. That means that we are not limited to what Nesta experiences and knows. That is not necessarily better, it's just different. That also doesn't mean that what Nesta feels and experiences is necessarily "more" true. It's just that the scope of what we know is wider.

Think of it like this: first person is like watching a movie in full screen. Third person close is like watching a movie in widescreen. It's not that we are seeing things completely differently, we just get more from third person close, including things that the main character might not notice themselves. Maybe a better comparison would be watching acotar through Feyre's GoPro, where Nesta's book was filmed in widescreen. They are both the truth, it's just that acosf gave us more.

I wonder, are people trying to say that Feyre is biased? Because that doesn't make sense either... we are all biased to some extent. Nesta being more critical of the IC doesn't make her smarter, or more savy, or whatever. It's just a function of who she is and the way that she encountered the Night Court. If she saw the IC as people who had saved her from an abusive romantic relationship, she would have the same positive view of the IC as Feyre does.

Sorry this got long, I just can't help but wonder - do people think that Nesta being critical of the IC is inherently better? Because criticizing something/someone, or seeing flaws, doesn't necessarily mean that someone has thought more, or been more objective. Maybe the IC has problems, but um. Hello, hi, the Autumn Court? Spring Court? idk, this idea that finding flaws makes someone a critical thinker drives me crazy because it's just not true.

We all come to things with our own perspectives. There is no avoiding it. And I just don't see how we could say that Nesta's perspective is more true - it's just her perspective, which yes differs from Feyre's perspective, but do we really expect a sister-in-law to view her sister's husband in the same way her sister does? Cuz yikes. Weird. Just because Feyre loves Rhys, doesn't make her view of him untrue. If we were to accept that, then we'd also have to say that Nesta's view of Cassian is "untrue", etc. When the irony is that those feelings come from our "biased" perspective in the first place! Of course we see people we love more positively than people we dislike, but that doesn't mean we are blind to who they are, or lying to ourselves about them. Maybe we offer them more forgiveness or grace than we would offer other people. But again, that doesn't make our perspective "wrong" in any way.

#acotar #nesta archeron #feyre archeron #acosf #ask #anon

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hellacioushag · 3 years

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acotar characters as animated good guys

this is dumb af, enjoy.

rhys: jack frost (rise of the guardians)

both hot af, both have painful pasts resulting in losing a loved one(s), both appear to be cold and flippant, but deep inside feel the need to make the world a more beautiful and wonderful place to be. jack constantly struggles through his movie to be seen for who he truly is and rhys felt that same pain until he and feyre healed together. 15/10 they can nip my nose anytime.

feyre: robin hood (robin hood)

my girl feyre is the living embodiment of robin hood. she knows what it’s like to have to fight for survival so now she’s always looking out for those in need. both kickass archers, both say eat the rich, and both would risk their necks for their true loves. 14/10 feyre and robin hood can fucking get it.

amren: archimedes (sword in the stone)

archimedes and amren are both wise and gruff sidekicks. they see everyone else as children barely able to speak full sentences and have no problem laughing in at their shenanigans. 12/10 would let them lecture me for hours

cassian: flynn rider/eugene fitzherbert (tangled)

flynn falls in love with rapunzel after being beaten with a frying pan and dragged into enemy territory so she can watch the lanterns, not realizing if caught he would for sure to arrested and killed. what other himbo would risk everything he is for a woman who would beat him up on the regular? 15/10 no one does it like my bois flynn and cassian.

nesta: anastasia (anastasia)

ana and nesta both have sass for days, neither would run from a fight, and both end up being the hero of their own stories. ana and nesta also have that tough outer exterior that only becomes softened when they grow to love and trust their significant other. 16/10 would fight a zombie sorcerer for you any day

elain: aurora (sleeping beauty)

i love both elain and aurora, but we barely know either of them let’s be real. aurora has maybe 18 minutes of screen time in her entire film and now we’re 4.5 books into a 6 book series and know little to nothing about what makes elain tick. 12/10 they both deserve better than underwhelming development and fuck bois.

lucien: hercules (hercules)

while lucien is a lot more clever than the himbo hunkules they both know the pain of feeling like they don’t belong, both have secret daddy reveals, both may not be very smooth but are sweet as fucking pie, and both would go to hell and back for their true loves. 14/10 would fight a hydra for both and that is the gospel truth.

azriel: elsa (frozen)

both elsa and azriel do not deal with their emotions and instead bottle them up until they explode out in a force of power beyond their control. like elsa, azriel needs to learn to love himself before trying to get with anyone. he needs to deal with his trauma and pain, he needs to heal. 11/10 i’m never letting go

gwyn: rapunzel (tangled)

gwyn and rapunzel both lived very sheltered lives and desire the strength to take those first steps from their confinement and face the world with all it’s unknowns. they both have so much joy and wonder about life. while naïve about some things they have both proven they are determined, brave, and true. 18/10 you are my new dream

mor: mulan (mulan)

mor and mulan and both fierce warriors who struggled to be able to be their authentic selves. they would do anything to protect their loved ones, even if it put themselves in harms way. honorable, kind, and fierce they are the strongest gals i know. 14/10 they are a girl worth fighting for

emerie: moana (moana)

these girls do not need a man to save them. they are strong, fierce, and compassionate women. they didn’t always have strong support systems, but both girls persevered and followed their own path. both moana and emerie are brave and kind and know they do not need to be anything other than themselves to get the job done. 13/10 these girls know the way to my heart

helion: tinkerbell (peter pan)

both the hottest in any room, both full of sass, both full of light and clever plans, and both will die if they don’t get enough attention. 14/10 clap if you want to smash

tamlin: derek (the swan princess)

derek is the OG tool. 2/10 derek walked, so tamlin could run.

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psychee92 · 3 years

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Why ACOTAR 5 Is (Without a Doubt) Elain’s Book

Warning: This post will be a long one, and will analyze the series as a whole (including ACOSF). As you read it, please consider taking your shipping goggles off, as none of this has anything to do with shipping and everything to do with character development/plot/the overall narrative of the series/good storytelling. Thank you!

Main points:

Elain’s role in the ACOTAR series

Elain’s character evolution throughout the series

The foreshadowing in ACOSF (+ bonus POVs)

The overarching plot

SJM’s own words

The ACOTAR Series and Elain’s Role

We have multiple interviews of SJM saying that Nesta and Elain’s role started off as a fairytale trope: that of the evil sisters. Then, Nesta surprised her when she decided to go after Feyre in ACOTAR, and the rest is history.

The sisters went from being a trope to being an instrumental part of the series. In ACOMAF, they were a link to Feyre’s human life (a final thread that she needed to let go of), as well as a means to an end (first, by being a bridge between the IC and the Queens, and then, as leverage, or weapons that were used against Feyre in Hybern). The final scene in ACOMAF was the catalyst for everything that happened in ACOWAR—and everything that is yet to come—but, most importantly, it also opened the door to two new character arcs/journeys—two new protagonists.

The protagonist exists as a sympathetic device to drive a story. To be effective in this role, they are usually there from the inciting moment to the end.

The similarities between their journey and Feyre’s are astounding: human made into something that she was raised to fear; coming to terms with trauma; letting go of the past; accepting her new condition; and the list goes on and on.

Now, who had more to lose by becoming fae?

And who lost more than anyone else?

Elain lost a future.

She was happy, content, in love.

Then, everything was ripped away from her in the span of a few minutes.

She was turned into something she had been raised to fear, something that her own fiancée had been raised to hate.

And, if that wasn’t enough, she was also forced into a bond neither her, nor Lucien, wanted. Mated to a man who participated, even if unknowingly, in the loss of her life—of her future. A man who did not know her, want her, love her.

This, right here, is good storytelling. It sets the stage for what is to come—for Elain’s future story and character arc.

ACOWAR is centered around repercussions:

For Elain, this book is one of healing, at least on the surface. SJM built the foundation of Elain’s journey, evidenced by:

Elain hitting rock bottom

Erasing any hope of a future with Graysen

Severing the last thread to her human life (with the death of her father)

This book also emphasizes Elain’s vital role in future books by:

Making her powerful (a seer)

Making her instrumental in the war against Hybern (due to her visions)

Having her save both, Nesta and Cassian (the protagonists of ACOSF)

Creating a connection between her and Vassa (and, ultimately, between Lucien, Vassa, and Jurian)

Having her introduce the next big bad (Koschei)

Hinting at her being the only one who can locate the one thing that can kill Koschei (the onyx box)

So, when you add everything that we know from ACOMAF and ACOWAR, what do we have? Potential.

We also have a character whose journey has been building since ACOTAR. The most significant hint is the constant use of the “dirty hands” imagery in reference to Elain. But more on that later.

Once the ACOTAR series wrapped up, we learned that, while Feyre and Rhysand’s journey was over, Sarah had more stories to tell—specifically, Nesta, Elain, and the ICs. As such, ACOFAS had two purposes:

To wrap up Feyre and Rhys’s story.

To introduce the future plot/main conflict and, with it, the next couple.

ACOFAS, however, also served to set up the stage for future protagonists, as well:

We saw some progress in Elain (her keeping busy with gardening and baking, her still having bad days, her friendship with Nuala and Cerridwen, and her slowly finding her place within the IC)—all of this was brought up again in ACOSF.

We got hints about Azriel and Elain’s growing feelings for each other (a storyline that was present throughout ACOSF, and confirmed in Azriel’s Bonus POV).

We learned about Azriel’s estate—Rosehall.

We got Mor’s POV, and learned some new things about her which will probably factor into her future book.

Again, SJM spent time focusing on Elain, fleshing out her character (while still giving Nesta and her journey center stage), which only solidifies the fact that she will be getting her own story soon.

It’s interesting to note that Azriel was not given a POV like Mor, and had very little character development (in comparison to Elain).

Now, let’s look at ACOSF. We have:

New conflicts—with the Queens and Beron

A new villain—Koschei

An overarching plot that connects the conflicts with the villain—the alliance between Koschei, the Queens, and Beron

A secondary, but related, plot—Vassa and, with her, the Band of Exiles (Lucien and Jurian)

Potential weapons—the Made objects

A potential solution—the onyx box

What do all of these have in common?

Elain.

She is directly tied to both, the Queens and Beron (and the Autumn Court). She’s had ties to Koschei since ACOWAR (she was the first to tell the IC about him, after getting visions about him). Her visions, in turn, led to the introduction of Vassa, which created a link between them both (and Lucien, because of their mating bond). She is the only one, apart from Nesta, who can find the Made objects (and a 4th one was introduced in ACOSF). She is also the only one, apart from Nesta, who can Make an object. Finally, she is the only one who can locate the onyx box (an image she’s been seeing since ACOWAR).

As a seer, Elain is arguably the most valuable character in the NC. She has been having visions about both, Koschei and Vassa, since ACOWAR.

Most importantly, however—her journey has been hinted at since ACOMAF:

Her role in future books having already been established, what about Elain as a character, as a protagonist?

Let’s begin by looking at what a character arc is:

While main characters might face big challenges, character arcs have to do with internal, personal change. Characters will find their strengths and weaknesses tested over the course of the story—so that by the time they arrive at the story's end, they are a changed person.

When the protagonist overcomes external obstacles and internal flaws in order to become a better person, it becomes a hero’s journey.

At its core, this arc is made up of three points:

The Goal: Every character needs to have a goal. It might be to fall in love. Or it might be to make as much money as possible. Either way, their journey will be hindered by...

The Lie: A deeply-rooted misconception they have about themselves or the world that keeps them from reaching their true potential. In order to reach their goal, they’ll need to acknowledge and overcome the Lie, by facing…

The Truth: While the character may have their own plans, the positive change arc has its own goal: self-improvement. This is achieved when they learn to reject The Lie and embrace The Truth.

Now, let’s look at what we know about Elain:

The Goal: To defeat Koschei/the Queens/Beron.

The Lie: That she doesn’t have what it takes. That she is not as strong as her sisters. That she is the weak link, too gentle and sweet to get her “hands dirty.”

The Truth: That she is just as powerful AND capable as her sisters, and that she can do anything she puts her mind to (find the 4th object, discover the location of the onyx box, fight against Koschei/the Queens/Beron).

We already see SJM start to break down the Lie in Feysand’s Bonus Chapter:

This is followed by Feyre saying:

So not only is Elain not afraid to get her hands dirty, she’s also not afraid of getting hurt in the process.

ACOSF is filled with moments that hint at Elain becoming just as powerful (if not more so) than her sisters. She has a very important role to play in future books, because she is the only one who can locate Koschei’s box and the 4th object. Her visions have been instrumental in the series so far, and there is a big hint that she might have more than just seer abilities:

Powers. Plural.

It makes sense for Elain’s book to be next. SJM has been scattering crumbs for her story since ACOTAR, and she is the character who would add the most to the plot—the only character who can move the plot forward.

You cannot ignore all the foreshadowing:

= a literary device that writers utilize as a means to indicate or hint to readers something that is to follow or appear later in a story.

Clear foreshadowing in ACOSF (it would take too long to list all the passages in previous books, as well):

These are just a few examples but, for me, the one that gives it away is this passage (that can easily be overlooked) in Feysand’s Bonus POV:

SJM is basically telling us that, once Nesta’s journey ends, Elain’s will begin.

And it makes sense!

This series is about the Archeron sisters. About human women turned fae.

The first three books were about Feyre. The fourth about Nesta. It would not make sense to skip Elain, only to return to her story in the final book. Why?

Because, in order to defeat Koschei, all three sisters need to have reached their full potential. All three need to be healed, and strong, and fully in control of their lives and powers. You cannot cram everything into one book: Elain’s healing journey/character arc, Vassa’s own journey (because there is no way that SJM will NOT write a Swan Lake retelling—just look at her Pinterest board!), finding the 4th object, finding the box, and, ultimatly, defeating Koschei.

Feyre had a whole book to heal—ACOMAF

Nesta had a whole book to heal—ACOSF

Elain will have a whole book to heal, as well.

No other character adds as much value—or has as much untapped potential—than Elain.

Also, there is no way that SJM will postpone telling her story in favor of a male character (Azriel). If you’ve read any of her books, you know that it is always the female characters that eclipse the male characters.

Also, if Elain will become dark or even a villain (temporarily), then this will take place in her own story, and will not be used as a plot device for angsty!Azriel or for another couple to make sense/be pushed together.

If we look at the pattern in ACOTAR, we have:

The first book ends with a happily ever after. The MC has defeated the big bad and has walked off into the sunset with her LI. There are hints about a future conflict, but nothing is fleshed out (in ACOTAR, Feyre’s bargain with Rhys + a potential conflict between the courts and with Hybern).

The second book is all about development (both, character development, in the form of the MC’s healing journey, and plot development). The scene is being set for the final conclusion (the war/battle), and everything that takes place serves to bring the characters closer to the main conflict resolution. The book ends on a false happily ever after (Feysand’s mating bond, having what they need to annul the Cauldron’s powers), followed by a cliffhanger (the sisters turning fae, Feyre returning to the Spring Court).

The last book is centered around defeating the big bad and ends on a happily ever after for (almost) everyone involved. It brings the main players together in a final showdown that ends with good ultimately defeating evil.

If we are to look at this pattern, then:

ACOSF - Ends with a happily ever after (Nesta has healed, reconnected with her sisters, found her place in the IC, and has a family outside the IC—Gwyn, Emerie). She has defeated Briallyn, but the biggest threat—Koschei—has barely made an appearance, and there is no ending in sight.

ACOTAR 5 - Elain’s healing journey. Finding the 4th object. Knowing exactly what has been happening behind the scenes with Beron, the Queens, and Koschei. Finding the 4th object and uncovering the location of Koschei’s onyx box. Cliffhanger: Koschei has been freed/has found a way to free himself.

ACOTAR 6 - The journey to find the onyx box or a way to destroy whatever is inside. The repercussions of Koschei’s freedom. Vassa’s story coming full circle. Now that all three Archeron sisters have reached their full potential, they will most likely join forces/powers to hold off Koschei long enough for Vassa (because she NEEDS to have the killing blow) to finish him off.

This post is already long enough, but here are some honorable mentions that I haven’t spoken about because I wanted this to be a mostly character-driven argument:

The mating bond—Elain needs to either accept it or reject it, and I cannot see this happening in the last book because it would lose its effect (considering that they need to defeat Koschei in this book)

Elriel—The unresolved feelings between them need to be addressed/dealt with.

The Blood Duel—There is no way this isn’t happening. SJM wouldn’t mention it without it playing some sort of role in Elain’s book.

I might make another post (because I still haven’t addressed everything I wanted to), but Elain’s book is (without a doubt) next.

As a reminder: SJM has recently said that writing about characters that are hated/disliked is something that she loves doing. I think it’s safe to assume that, given the recent wave of hatred/dislike towards Elain, we are in for an epic journey.

#acosf spoilers #acotar 5 #acotar theories #elain archeron #pro elain #badass elain #elriel

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algumaideia · 3 years

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SJM treatment of Tamlin and why it is wrong

You know, she treated Tamlin so bad that only because of that I became his stan. That is literally the only reason why I am pro Tamlin. Just that.

First, Tamlin did abused Feyre and Lucien in the second book. This is a fact. So don’t say that I’m here trying to appologize an abuser because I’m not. Actually the story that I wanted for Tamlin is that Feyre kicks him and go do whatever because I don’t care about her, Tamlin feels sad then goes after her, she says how bad he was and etc, Tamlin feels depressed because he realizes she is right, Lucien brings the Tamlin out of his depressive state through the power of friendship, Tamlin tries to be a better person, Tamlin becomes Tarquin’s friend, they both rebuild their court together. You see, my character arc for him has a part where he acknowledge he was being abusive(something that Rhys never did cof cof).

Anyway let’s start with why SJM treatment of Tamlin was wrong.

I don’t know if my post needs it, but just in case. TW: abuse, ptsd, trauma, depression, sjm bad writing.

Ptsd, trauma and abuse

You know, at the same time that I know Tamlin’s abuse was wrong and horrible I also want to ignore it because, besides the negligence, it was just bad writing. What do you mean by bad writing? Well, let’s compare Tamlin’s ptsd with Kaz and one of my main characters. Why am I going to compare ptsd when I am talking about abuse? I am going to do so because Tamlin’s abuse is caused by his ptsd. Other point, I know it is imature, but I’m very insecure about my writing and compare SJM writing with mine makes me feel better. I’m sorry about that.

Kaz passed through a horrible experience and because of that he has extreme touch aversion. But the trauma and ptsd didn’t change his personality, they weren’t responsables to make a good kid become a rough boy that is the leader of a gang. The circunstances did it (I haven’t read the second book yet, no spoleirs). Of course that the trauma changed the way he interacted with people but what made him change was the fact that he was a lonely child with a heart full of hatred and desire for vengence living in a place full of thieves and gangs. Now Jafari, my main character, also lived a traumatic experience. He has nightmares, triggers and intrusive thoughts. However, the “basis” of his ptsd is that he ignores and avoids his emotions, his grief and his trauma. He doesn’t like conflicts, he is passive, he doesn’t deal with things, he just let things solve themselves. And that’s why his ptsd is based on him avoiding dealing with what happened and trying to process what happened.

Tamlin’s abuse and ptsd is based on three things: anger, neglect and being controlling. To be fair the neglect and controlling part makes sense, but I still have problems with them. Now the anger is so weird. I don’t remember Acotar pretty well but during all the time Tamlin was UTM he had control over his actions and feelings. Amarantha wanted to hurt him by hurting his love and his friends, she was also problaby sexually assalting him. Tamlin saw Feyre being tortured, suffering and being sexually abused and he never showed any reaction because he knew if he did that Amarantha would make everything worse for her. Considering that how his ptsd and abuse is he having no control towards his anger? It makes no sense.

In the first book Lucien insults and makes fun of Tamlin all the time and Tamlin has no problem with it. Not only that but his court has no ranks, not like Rhys’ court cof cof. But now Lucien can’t give him even a suggestion that he is almost killing his only friend who survived during Aramanthas reign? Sigh That’s my problem with Tamlln being a control freak. And I aslo have the feeling that SJM only put it so then Rhys could say it is your choice all the time.

About the neglect, Tamlin was trying to rebuilt his court, was dealing with his trauma and there was also the fact that Feyre wasn’t safe since other High Lords would be mad with her for having their powers. Tamlin neglecting Feyre is logical. But people forget that Feyre was also neglecting Tamlin. As I said I don’t remember Acotar pretty well but I think that Tamlin asked how Feyre was at some point, but Feyre never did that. She was all: ohhh Tamlin knows that I am throwing up and having nightmares why he does nothing? Tamlin isn’t sleeping well too, but he never asks me how am I doing. You want to blame Tamlin for his negligence towards Feyre? Good, do it, you are right. But Feyre did the same thing. She NEVER EVER even thought to ask if Tamlin was okay, or acknowlegded that he was also suffering.

At least Tamlin tried to communicate with her, Feyre never did that. For example he gave her paints so then she could start painting again. And this was good, Feyre was depressed and that is why she didn’t painted. One thing that depressed people do sometimes is to avoid doing things they know will make them happy. Feyre was doing that. And this was also Tamlin trying to communicate with Feyre and she just ignored it and then was angry because he didn’t know that she couldn’t stand the color red, but Rhys knew. This is so wrong.

1. Rhys only knew that because he invaded her mind and discovered something she wasn’t confortable talking with anyone.

2. She never told about her problem with the color red with Tamlin. She never talked with him. How was he supposed to know?

3. This was the perfect opportunity to talk about that with him, but she didn’t.

Tamlin's ptsd was ignored through the whole series, he was treated as the worst person ever when Rhys who did the same things was treated as the best person in Earth and his logical actions were treated as stupid.

Tamlin’s “illogical” actions

You know, there is a lot of memes that say how Tamlin was stupid to think that Feyre would like to come back to him after spending sometime with Rhys. Yeah, how dumb! Why he would think that he love of his life would like to come back to him after being kidnapped by the guy who sexually abused her for months, the guy who joined Amarantha for no reason, the guy who has been known for torturing people and having a court full of miserable fae. Hahaha so dumb!! She even sent him a letter saying she didn’t want anything with him, and he was stupid to go after her anyway. I mean, the guy known for being a psycho that kidnapped her was also able to control minds so why wouldn’t he believe in the letter? Hahahaha. *Sigh*

A lot of people criticize Tamlin for colecting taxes in Acomaf, like how could he? People first, where do you think all Rhys money came from? His work? Second, it was the first time he did it in 50 years and he postponed it a month. He was trying to get everything back to normal. Besides taxes are an important part of a governament, it is from them that the governament can make things, like hospitals, better streets(at least they were supposed to do so). SJM didn’t make it clear what a HIgh Lord job is. She said that Tamlin job is to protect the Spring Court, but in every other moment it is implied that High Lord are likes kings so I don’t know. Anyway this makes perfect sense, congratulations to Tamln.

Then he allies with Hybern and people act like he did that to take Feyre back form Rhysand. How dumb! Hahaha. He did that to save his people. The Spring Court was in a delicated position, he lost a lot of his friends during Amarantha reign and they were problaby responsable to protect the Spring Court. The agreement would protect this people, got Feyre back and made him able to spy Hybern. And this is more than Rhys did. He only tortured people to protect a hidden city, nothing more.

In the war meeting he had the all the right to be angry, but it wasn’t nice to say that about Feyre. I won’t say anything more because I could write a whole post about how wrong this meeting was.

And finally he helped to resurrected Rhysand and it was put as an amazing thing. But it was nonsense. Why he helped the guy who kidnapped his love and manipulated her? Why he helped the guy who sent his love to destroy his court? Why he helped the guy who allied with Amarantha for no reason? Why he helped the guy who is known for being a monster for years? Specialy condering that this guy could get his powers. And after that Rhys decieded to visit Tamlin and make him more miserable than he already us. But that’s ok because Rhys is the best male. Not only that but Rhys now is visiting Tamlin oftenly in Acofs apparently. This makes me so ANGRY.

This was my messy post.

Best regards,

Me.

Ps. Sorry for writing makes sense and its variations too much, but that is because I don’t know English that well so my knowledge is very limited.

#anti sjm #sjm critical #anti acotar #anti acowar #anti acomaf #anti feyre #anti rhysand #anti feysand #tamlin #lucien #lucien vanserra

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offtorivendell · 3 years

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Azriel will train Elain in self-defence; a theory cum headcanon

Please don't share or screenshot this post without credit.

Disclaimer: rude double entendres above and below, mature/NSFW themes and quotes are shown and discussed; 18+ only.

One thing we've learnt over the course of the ACOTAR series is that the Bat Bros consider it imperative that their loved ones are capable of defending themselves from danger when required.

Rhys, Cassian and Azriel all trained Mor in the basics themselves, before she travelled abroad and learnt more.

They were all involved in different aspects of Feyre’s training, both magical and physical.

Cassian and Azriel were behind Nesta’s initial fitness work, then her training to become a Valkyrie. Cassian also gave Nesta a dagger, along with a few quick pointers, in ACOWAR.

This leaves us with Elain Archeron who, while she is yet to train - at least openly, for the reader to see - was handed the dagger Truth-Teller, by Azriel, in ACOWAR, and during ACOSF was noted as likely having received some sort of stealth training from either Azriel, or Nuala and Cerridwen, as well as actively planning to reacquaint herself with her powers.

How far has she got with all of that? We'll have to wait for her book to find out, but I do have a theory...

While a good spy (of which there are more varieties than just those who wear black and sneak around stealing items of national importance) shouldn't get caught - hence it's significant that Elain is noted as both possibly having lessons in stealth, and successfully sneaking up on multiple family members - they should be able to escape potentially risky situations, either through use of their charm, wit and wisdom or, if all else fails, physical and/or magical self defence.

This isn't exactly an 'Elain will be a spy' post, though I do think it likely she will become involved with the Night Court’s intelligence work in some capacity, but to do that, she will most likely still need to learn how to defend herself, so... this is a prediction post, with a side of headcanon, as to how Elain will learn to fight in close quarters.

Roses grow thorns, afterall.

Azriel, who hates hand-to-hand combat - and the inevitable face full of someone else's sweat - will train Elain Archeron in self defence (and probably enjoy it).

The scene below appears to hold a hint of foreshadowing:

Not only did we learn that Azriel prefers "swordplay" over hand-to-hand combat - though Nesta and Cassian already used that joke in ACOSF - we also learnt the reason why: Az doesn't like getting a "face full" of someone else's sweat. Additionally, and most of all, importantly, Elain was conspicuously left unmentioned by Cassian, when he remembered Feyre’s initial hesitance around Azriel, when compared to Nesta, which leads me to believe that she never was; this fits in with what we saw of their first meeting in the human lands (ACOMAF), when Feyre noted Elain finding reassurance and comfort in Azriel's actions.

So, I posit to you that the last Archeron sister to be trained in physical defence will be taught by Azriel himself (potentially with help from Nuala and Cerridwen), who, coincidentally, won't mind getting a face full of her, sweat or otherwise. His bonus chapter proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Look at the parallels between the two scenes:

"Hand to hand" vs "hand to fist."

Azriel was more than happy to let Elain get too close/so close.

Something was to his taste/he wanted a taste of something.

Mentions of his eyes rolling back.

Elain "made no move to leave," whereas most people "run from" Azriel's stillness.

Of course, that could all be coincidental, but I find it interesting that yet another scene with Azriel, especially one that noted a specific aspect of his character and history, has ties to his bonus chapter with Elain.

Now for a quickie Elriel training headcanon...

Azriel: Pins Elain to the wall, smirks. "Get me off, then we can break for a drink and a snack."

Elain: Smiles sweetly, licks Az's neck, lightly touches his wing.

Azriel: Eyes closed, fists clenching either side of Elain’s head. "Not what I meant, but okay." Picks Elain up and winnows into the shadows.

Link to the headcanon posted separately.

If you enjoyed this, please consider reblogging. 💜

#elriel #pro elriel #elain archeron #azriel shadowsinger #pro elain #pro azriel #spy elain #death and his lovely fawn #fanged beast and trembling fawn #acotar #acosf #acotar theory #acotar headcanon #acotar 5 predictions #azriel theory #elain theory #elriel theory #azlain #spy couple

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talkfantasytome · 3 years

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'Twas Never Meant to Be - An Opinion

I have a lot of thoughts about this, and really need to get them out. So, let's talk about Elain and Azriel.

First off, I want to warn you, this post is a beast. Like, over 7.5k words beast. It just kept going. I'm sorry, but I didn't know what to take out and, honestly, I didn't want to spend a lot of time heavily editing it. Tread knowingly. I will not be offended if anyone chooses not to read it, or not to read it all.

Secondly, I want to say that this post is not meant to be a pro-Gwynriel or pro-Elucian post. Regardless of my personal ships, I want to explain why I, personally, do not believe Elain and Azriel would be right for each other. And these reasonings go far beyond "because I'd prefer them with someone else". In fact, these beliefs and feelings are first and foremost in my mind when considering all three of these ships, and any feelings I may or may not have on other ships are always second to my belief that they would not be right together. I will do my best to keep Gwyn and Lucien out of the comparison, unless using them as a way to point to something that would be wrong between Elain and Azriel - versus stating any reason why the other would be right.

The first two reasons I will share are ones I have been holding on to for quite a while, and have only become stronger with more content (Silver Flames). I have, personally, not seen much around these two thoughts, but recognize that they may be out there already, as there is no new thought under the sun. So, here goes:

Step Away From the Characters

Honestly, my first reason really has nothing to do with the characters themselves at all, but it's something I can't get out of my head. It's a personal thing, I know, as everyone might see it differently, but I can't help but feel like the three brothers ending up with the three sisters would be too perfect, too convenient.

I know that it's a shit argument when talking about an SJM book, and the more I read about the series, and the more books that come out within it, the more I recognize this. It makes me sad. But personally, I can't get behind this storyline, this ending that is so perfect it makes my skin crawl. It's not how life works, and it doesn't really make sense. If it were three adoptive sisters, as the bat boys are, it would actually make more sense, because it would stand to reason that you would have a two groups that mirror each other. That one girl who mirrored Rhys, let's say, then befriended to the point of sisterhood ones that mirrored the boys that Rhys befriended to the point of brotherhood. But Nesta, Elain, and Feyre are sisters by blood, not by choice, and so it isn't an automatic that they would be that reflection to the boys. And even though the boys lived together, and weren't fully brought together by choice as much as Mrs. Rhys's mother, they still chose to stay together and be brothers.

We have never, not fully, seen the Archerons make those same choices. These boys live together (or used to), work together, truly share their lives. The Archerons don't. The girls were disconnected before becoming Fae, and they are still disconnected after it. You see it more clearly with Nesta, of course, trying to stay away from the group, stay separate. But you see it with Feyre and Elain too. You see how Elain practically gives up on Nesta, and how Feyre discredits and dismisses Elain as anything more than just a kind soul who likes to garden. You can't, for two seconds, convince me that the Archerons have as similar or as bonded relationships to each other as the bat boys, and that alone tells us that we should not expect them to mirror the boys.

I would also like to note, looking back at the characters for a second, that it has been observed by others how Feyre and Nesta do seem to have similar energies a lot. On top of that, you could argue that Nesta mirrors all three bat boys in one way or another. It's one theory as to why she and Rhys struggle so much with each other, because they're too similar. And, you can't convince me that Az and Nesta don't share a bond because of their own similarities. Nesta's fire was cold as ice. Rhys once observed Azriels rage as an 'icy rage'. I don't think I need to mention how Nesta mirrors Cassian, but it's there too. So, the fact that she would be the sister who ended up with a mate from the Night Court, one of these three brothers, just made a lot of sense. But Elain, who is so different from her sisters, she doesn't have that same energy. It's not a bad thing, but it helps make sense why she would be the one with a mate from outside this Court.

Beyond this, however, I still struggle with the three and three come together concept. And that's coming from someone who actually has, within her family, a story of two brothers marrying two sisters - my great grandparents (or great great, I can never remember). So, I know stuff like this does happen, though admittedly my only experience is with two and two, and naturally I do believe that the likelihood of the full group being with the full other group goes down with each additional number. Regardless of that, though, it is an author's job to tell a story that we can connect to, and having such convenient and perfect endings makes it difficult to do just that. Because life isn't like that.

So I struggle with the concept of this. Like I said, the more I get to know these books, this series, the more I understand that this is not a great argument for why Elain and Azriel aren't endgame considering how other things have played out, but I still think it's a good argument for why they shouldn't be. However, I would also say that the argument that they will end up together because it's three brothers and three sisters is completely off base and illogical, for reasons I've mentioned above. What is the purpose of that? How does that drive the plot and the story and world? How does it connect us to them better? It doesn't. All it does is be just a convenient little bow that has no true purpose, unless there is true purpose as to why each sister ended up with each brother. And I don't really see a purpose as to why Elain would end up with Az except that they're both the last sibling, and that they currently like each other. But that doesn't mean they're right for each other, and I don't see how them being together will spur the story and the world forward the way Feyre and Rhys did, and the way Nesta and Cassian can and/or will.

As someone who dabbles in writing, I have thought about these types of things, and I'm always adjusting plans and thoughts when I realize I've gone into that too perfect la la land, and I'd like to believe that all writers do that. SJM has had some convenient endings, but I will say I've not yet felt like any ending was just too perfect. The closest was, of course, ACOWAR. But even then, you still had threads, misunderstandings, questions, and things you weren't happy about. Yes, the ending felt a bit perfect, but we still lost the Bone Carver, Mr. Archeron, the Suriel, etc. There were still things that made it less than completely perfect. And much of what was done in the ending did move this story forward, and provide the opening for what we are now getting. And, in the same vein, I like to think that SJM would recognize how this would be too much. But, I don't hold out a lot of hope on this reasoning alone, it's really just something I had to get off my chest.

Share Life With Me

This next point is huge for me, in my mind. Again, it is based off of my own personal opinions of some characters, as well, so I do understand that some people may not agree with this argument. That's fine, but you will not sway me.

It all comes down to one thing. What does Az want?

In the Az POV chapter we are finally told, out right, that he does want Elain. But, my question - does he really?

I have been thinking about this since long before Silver Flames, since we all knew Az had a crush, but it wasn't as cemented until Silver Flames came out, and we saw how Nesta and Cassian would develop as a couple. Because, and here's the kicker, I don't believe Az actually wants Elain.

Yes, you read that right. I know he thinks he wants Elain. I know he believes she's kind and beautiful. And I recognize that there was a sexual tension there - I'm not blind. But I don't believe that Elain is the end goal Azriel is actually looking for.

I believe that she is a representation of that end goal.

This mostly comes down to his conversation with Rhys, his belief about the Cauldron:

"The Cauldron chose three sisters. Tell me how it's possible that my two brothers are with two of those sisters, yet the third was given to another." He had never before dared speak the words aloud.

Okay, first - Az, please see point above. Also, I can't help but feel like SJM put that in here almost to show that this isn't actually a valid argument.

Second, let's dissect that argument for a moment. Now, perhaps Az is just trying to find what he considers a more 'objective' reason for why Elain should be his, why they should be together. However, if that were the case, then why would he have never dared speak those words aloud? Most likely because he knows it's not a solid argument, and logical Az knows this. But this is 2 AM, you just stopped me from kissing the girl I fancy Az, and he definitely is not being his most logical self.

It's also not a logical or good argument because of one simple word. Given. "…the third was given to another." Az, you're better than this. I truly want to believe you're better than this. I understand that the mating bond is weird, and inherently at least slightly sexist, but that doesn't give any male the right to really look at it that way. Especially when you consider the explanation that the mating bond will be present between two perfect equals. This is seen in ACOMAF when Feyre can't believe Rhys would be her mate, because that's what it would mean, that she's his equal. This also paints Elain as an object, which, no matter what anyone's feelings are toward the character, is not okay. She is a person. A fictional one, but still a person, she cannot be given unless she chooses to give herself. The Cauldron simply dictated who it believes is best for her, and vice versa. I'm not saying the Cauldron was right, or that she and Lucien would be good together, but that's what the mating bond is. To argue that the Cauldron was wrong because two brothers got two of the sisters, but the third was given to another is inherently wrong, because Elain cannot be given away.

It also shows that maybe Az really isn't truly seeing Elain for who she is, if he is thinking of it this way. I do believe that Az is a feminist, or, at least, more of a feminist than most of the males in Prythian (which, sadly, doesn't seem to be saying much). So I don't believe this is a comment based on a sexism in Az we haven't seen yet, I truly don't. I believe that it is a comment made by someone whose judgement is clouded, and who is, as I stated earlier, using Elain as a representation of what he's really looking for. He seems to idolize her, put her on a pedestal, believe that she is all light, all good. (Az, please see my previous post on that little nugget.) He objectifies her not because he truly believes she is an object, but because she has become a symbol in his mind - she is not the person Elain to him. She is the one he should have, the one who will bring him what he wants. Note I didn't say the one he wants. Whenever a person puts another on a pedestal the way Az has with Elain, whenever someone idolizes them, or believes that said person will fix all of their woes, they are subconsciously objectifying them. That being is no longer seen as a true person, with all the flaws and struggles and ugly parts. They are something else. And those types of feelings about another person never end in a good relationship, because at least one side is always expecting too much from the other, and they rarely learn to cope with what they didn't expect. And, for the record, you should never really be 'coping' with your partners flaws, but that's a conversation for another day.

Beyond being not a truly logical argument, and showing us how Azriel has actually objectified Elain in his mind, I also believe this statement gives us insight into what Az actually wants. He could have said a number of things to express a belief (or desire) that the Cauldron was wrong. He could have talked about his feelings for Elain. About how he thinks their personalities are too compatible for them to not be rightfully mates. Pretty much, he could have said something about Elain, and how they are right together because of who they are.

But he didn't.

Instead, Az brought up his two brothers and their mates. How they each got one, so surely the third should be his. And why did he do this? Again, maybe 2 AM Az who had lost his logic just thought this was an objective reason. But I think there's more to it than that. I think he brought up those other relationships as a way to point toward what it is he really wants. Because that's what's on his mind. It's not that Elain is perfect for him, that she is everything he could have ever hoped for in a female. It's that she is the sister of his brother's two mates, and he wants what his brothers have. So, clearly, that must mean that it's Elain who can give him that.

Again, Az, please read my first point. Because that's not a guarantee just because they're related.

Now, I imagine most people are saying, "Well, duh. We all know he wants what they have. He said so earlier on in the chapter." And he did:

Azriel couldn't stop it. The envy in his chest. Of Cassian, and Rhys.

So, it's not new. But, this argument he provided highlights that so specifically. He wants what his brothers have. Not a mate, per se. No. What they have.

But, wait, a mate is what they have. What are you saying?

Yes, a mate is what each of them have. But, as we know, not all mates are perfect for each other. Rhys and Feyre, and Cassian and Nesta are both examples of how right the mating bond can be. But, let's instead look at what they both have, in points, instead of just saying they have a mate. Here are, from my interpretation, the main common aspects of these two relationships:

Love. Sure, Nesta and Cassian hadn't said it yet. But, yes, they love each other, they're just both stubborn and scared and maybe not ready to say it.

Heavy sexual attraction and chemistry. This may not always be the most important piece of a relationship, but it's blatant in both of theirs, and it's clear that Az wants that as well. Which is fair.

Friendship. It's hard to see it at times, because these books are so much about the romance, but I do believe that both couples are truly friends who like to spend time together. Who can have fun together. We don't get to see this enough - and I do wish we saw more of it - but it is there. It's there when Cassian throws his head back laughing at something Nesta said. Or when Rhys is thrilled when sassy Feyre appears. And yes, it is in part the mating bond, making them want to be near each other, but they still enjoy that time together. Mates who aren't right for each other wouldn't.

True partners. In these two relationships, they are more than just each other's mate, lover, friend. They are and/or are becoming partners. In their relationships, Rhys and Cass have found a female who they can share their lives with. Completely and fully. In Feyre, Rhys has found a High Lady, a female who is his true equal, who can rule the Court with him. They work together, plan together. And Rhys can come home at night and tell her everything about his day. In Nesta, Cass has found someone who, I believe, will grow to command with him. Likely female units, but she is still mirroring Cass in that way. She may not become his true equal in terms of being Commander of the Night Court, but she would still be his partner. He will still be able to strategize with her, the two working together to determine where each unit will go. He will command the Illyrians, and by his side she will command the Valkyries. And he can come home, at the end of the day, and tell her everything about his day.

It's this last piece that I want to really dig into, because that is what separates Rhys and Cassian's relationships from others we have seen, in my opinion, and thus that is what Az wants. It's not just a mate, he wants what his brothers have, a true partner who he can fully share his life with. Because that is what makes their relationships so special.

And, in the end, I do not believe Elain can be that for him.

I am not trying to discredit Elain, or say that she is simple, or that she can't do anything but garden and be a housewife. No. That is not my point. I do think, however, that what it would entail to be a true partner to Az is something she does not want to do. And that is okay! It is okay for her to want to garden and bake. It's okay to not wish to be involved in all of the plotting and planning and little missions and quests that the Inner Circle does. It's okay to not want to train. To be happy as you are.

But she can't do both. She can't be a true partner to Azriel and remain as she is. Now, perhaps she does want more, and I have misread her. It's possible, I am not infallible. However, she hasn't ever truly shown us anything that tells me otherwise. And, no, I don't believe her offering to find the Dread Trove in Silver Flames counts as I don't believe she offered to do so out of the goodness of her heart or because she wanted to do it. I believe she wanted to prove Nesta wrong. (Again, you can see this in my previous post.) So, to be a true partner to Azriel, she may have to change everything that she is. And that's not fair to her.

And, even if I am way off on a lot of this. Even if she does want to do more for the Night Court. There is one thing that we have learned about Elain:

She does not wish to fight, she does not wish to train.

I'm sorry, you can't convince me otherwise. Not when she has had ample opportunity to do so in the year, year and a half since Hybern, and still hasn't. It was different with Nesta, who was dealing with a lot of other things, but Elain has been, for the most part, fairly healthy. Her not training is her choice because of who she is.

Again, this is okay! I am not insulting Elain for this, not at all. I get it. I don't particularly love working out - the main exercise I get is from rock climbing twice a week, that's it. So I get it. However, you cannot work with Azriel and not be trained, not know how to fight. Even if Elain could be silent, or infiltrate courts easily, and learn secrets, you need those skills, even if it's just a fallback to ensure you can escape should something go wrong. But it also helps to understand these types of things, to understand battle and politics and everything else. It's not about whether she can do this, it's about whether she wants to do this, and I'm not sure she does. So she would either have to change who she is, and be unhappy to become Az's partner, or she wouldn't be able to be that. And, admittedly, if she were unhappy, he still wouldn't have what his brothers have.

However, on top of that, I also don't know if Azriel would let Elain be his true partner. Think about when they're at dinner, talking about how Nesta needs to scry, and how they'll have to rely on Elain if she doesn't - what Azriel says.

“There is an innate darkness to the Dread Trove that Elain should not be exposed to.”

Sidebar - I've not seen anyone talk about how Cassian was absolutely in the right for defending Nesta. So I did. You can see my soap box here.

Now, back to the point. This is one example of how Az is constantly trying to protect Elain from, well, kinda everything. So, even if Elain did want to do all of those things, would Az even be okay with it? He obviously can't stop her from training or anything like that - and if he tries should she ever want to, he's dead to me. But, would he really share his life with her? Tell her about those 'unspeakable things that sullied his hands far beyond their scars'? I don't believe he would. I don't believe he could truly handle her working with him because, again, he has put her on this pedestal of beauty and grace and goodness (that she may not have). And the things he does are not good, at least not by his standards. He wouldn't be able to truly include her until he started to look at her as her own person again, which I also don't see happening. And, even then, he still wouldn't want to share with her all he'd done, believing her likely to judge those things, to be too pure to even hear about them. Regardless of whether that is true or not about Elain, it would hinder him from being able to have a true partner in her. When Azriel comes home at night, he would not tell her everything about his day.

Love Yourself, Az

This, I know for a fact, is not a new revelation. I have seen a lot about this, and have seen some posts that even helped me along with this as well, but I can't not address Az's shadows. I would link to the first post I saw about this but, admittedly, I can't find it. So, just know, I'm not the only one thinking this, and I recognize that some of this may come off as similar to others, but I couldn't not talk about this because it just feels so important.

Elain sucked in a soft breath that whispered over his skin. His shadows skittered back at the sound. They'd always been prone to vanish when she was around.

It wasn't until the Azriel POV chapter that I fully understood what lay behind the fact that Az's shadows would retreat around Elain, when we get a direct comparison to how they react to Gwyn's breath:

"How was the party?" Her breath curled in front of her mouth, and one of his shadows darted out to dance with it before twirling back to him. Like it heard some silent music.

Before this, I didn't realize how bad a sign it is, for his shadows to retreat. I just thought they did that when he was around someone he was attracted to, almost as a sense that the other person lightened him up. But, with this comparison, and in general what we see from Az when around Elain, I see just how wrong I was. His shadows hiding isn't a sign of him lightening up - no, it's a sign of him retreating more into himself, trying to be something that he isn't around that person, in the hopes that they'll accept him if he is.

In the end, it's toxic.

He can't be who he truly is around Elain. That's not something that will lead to a healthy, happy relationship. He may have the girl he thinks he wants, but he won't have the relationship we all know he is desperate for. Whereas, around Gwyn, we see his shadows reach out to another person, jump out, dance with her breath, sing to her. He is able to fully embrace who he is around her. He will be able to be himself with her, love himself with her. And whether or not Gwyn is the right person to him, what this tells us is that Elain can't be that person. That she, like Mor, would be toxic to Az.

On top of that, I can't not point out the word usage here.

While I did observe this on my own, I am not the first to point it out - pagesofmoonlight talks about this in detail, about the usage of the term 'skittered' in regards to how the shadows retreat from Elain. It's not just a general hiding, or even a 'lightening' of Az, as I once thought. It's a gut reaction to her, her breath. They run from her. When I read that word, I literally picture a wave of something, and the shadows seeing it and running from it in fear.

Similarly, in comparison, with Gwyn's breath, the shadows 'darted' out to it. That, also, is not just a general they reached out to it for warmth or contact. Now, they darted - that is a very quick move, often done with a need or desire to get to where you're going as quickly as possible. The shadows needed or wanted to be with that breath, so they darted to it.

Like I said, this post isn't meant to be promoting one ship over Elain and Azriel. But what Gwyn provides here is a comparison, is a sign of what could and should be, whether with her or another person. Even if she isn't endgame, she shows us this problem between Elain and Azriel.

Home is Where You Shine

This entire post, which has become MASSIVE, has been very focused on Azriel, and why Elain is not right for him. But I want to touch on a reason why Az isn't right for Elain.

Azriel is a part of the Night Court. It is his home. It is where he belongs. He fits here, it is right for him. He can and does fine here. I don't think anyone can deny this. But Elain - she does not.

First, let's look at when Nesta is in the Spring Court.

Nesta’s throat constricted, and she surveyed the swaying cherry blossoms overhead. Elain would love this place. So many flowers, all in bloom, so much green—the light, vibrant green of new grass—so many birds singing and such warm, buttery sunshine. Nesta felt like a storm cloud standing amid it all. But Elain … The Spring Court had been made for someone like her.

I'm not saying Elain will end up in the Spring Court, but I do believe it is telling that Nesta would think about another court this way. We've not, to my recollection, really ever seen another character think about how well someone would fit in a different court. Feyre did, if I remember correctly, mention enjoying other courts at times, thinking they were beautiful, but never did she think about how right someone within her court would be in a different court. Because no one else in the Inner Circle would fit so well in another court. For whatever reason it is, everyone else is perfectly suited for the Night Court, and they can handle it.

It takes a lot to be a part of the Night Court. The masks they all wear, the reputation they have, the responsibilities that fall on their shoulders. It's not an insult or an attack on any character to say that they may not fit there, that they may be more in tune with the beauty of Spring, the warmth of Summer, the light of Day. And Elain, who is gentle and kind and not one to pretend to be what she isn't - likely because she's never felt the need to - I can understand how it would be hard.

Secondly, and I know it's a point of contention, and a well-discussed piece of Silver Flames, but I do want to talk about the Solstice Ball, and Cassian's observations.

Elain in black was ridiculous. Yes, she was beautiful, but the color of her long-sleeved, modest gown leeched the brightness from her face. It wore her, rather than the other way around. And he knew the cruelty of the Hewn City troubled her. But she hadn’t hesitated to come. When Feyre had offered to let her remain home, Elain had squared her shoulders and declared that she was a part of this court—and would do whatever was needed. So Elain had let her golden-brown hair down tonight, and pinned it back with twin combs of pearl. He’d never once in the two years he’d known her found Elain to be plain, but wearing black, no matter how much she claimed to be part of this court … It sucked the life from her.

I will try not to go too far into the information about Elain in the black dress, as it's been discussed a lot from both sides, though I do think it is telling, because Cassian isn't just saying it's the one dress. It's very specific about how Elainin black was ridiculous, not that dress. It may seem shallow, but in the end, black is a crucial color in the Night Court, and that type of symbolism is often used to depict things just like this. It would not be the first time, and it certainly won't be the last that a writer uses color this way. However, I have seen a number of posts about this, on both sides, and I do understand both arguments, even if I disagree with one because I don't think it's meant to just be a skewed POV.

I would like to note, however, that the main argument I've seen is that there was once another time Elain was described in a dress that did little to complement her, but it's a very different description. That other time, it's mentioned specifically that the dress and color/shade of the dress did little to complement her 'sallow skin'. First of all, this is specifically discussing how the color didn't work with her skin, not how the color 'drained the life out of her'. Secondly, I would say it is very important to note that 'sallow' means "of a sickly, yellowish or lightish brown color". It is not discussing her skin as it typically is, but how it is when she was in the midst of her own depression after becoming High Fae. It's not that the dress didn't complement her, it's just that it didn't help make her skin look better than the sickly state it was currently in. Whereas, in this reflection, Elain is healthy, and still the black is draining her. Not the dress, not the shade - black. Point blank.

It's also important to recognize that this isn't meant to insult Elain, I believe it is a symbol of how she doesn't shine in the Night Court, how this court could potentially 'suck the life out of her'. Yes, it's just a dress. Yes, there's a chance they wanted her to look plain, but I don't believe that.

They were always going to have Nesta dance with Eris, and they all knew that, despite Elain's beauty, and no matter how lovely she looked, Eris would gravitate to Nesta. He'd already shown interest in her, he'd already become intrigued. He looked at Elain first, I believe, to get a look at his brother's mate. Because he wasn't looking at Elain with interest. No, it was an 'assessing gaze'. There was no reason to make Elain look plain. In fact, there was every reason to make sure she looked just as beautiful as Nesta. Think about what Cassian said just before this:

Both sisters wore black. Both walked behind Rhys and Feyre, a silent indicator that they were a part of the royal family. Had mighty powers of their own. They’d planned it that way, wanting Eris to see for himself how valuable Nesta was.

Why would they want her to look plain, considering this? They wanted Nesta and Elain to walk in the procession behind Feyre and Rhys, as a sign, a symbol. Yes, they wanted Eris to see and understand how valuable Nesta was, as it is said, but they didn't want Elain to look any less valuable. First, doing so would have made Nesta look less valuable by comparison. But, on top of that, I highly doubt they had any fears that Eris would prefer Elain - if they believed Eris about Lucien, then I think they'd believe that Eris wouldn't wish to take away his brother's mate. In fact, I imagine Eris would more likely help Lucien with Elain - but, that just be my Eris stan status coming out.

What is clear is that it was purposeful that they put both Nesta and Elain in black, as a symbol that they are a part of this family. My guess is that they found a dress for Elain that did her the most justice, and that she was comfortable wearing but, in the end, black just doesn't work on her. And is that fact not telling when that is the color of the family?

While this was in draft mode, I also found this post from yazthebookish, who goes deeper into this, and how it wasn't just Cassian who observed how ridiculous Nesta looked in black. So, for those who want to talk about how it is a skewed perspective, there were actually three that made this observation, and I absolutely agree that SJM wouldn't shove this in there solely to say that they purposefully tried to make sure Nesta outshone Elain. As they pointed out, Nesta is gorgeous in her own right. Cassian met her and Elain together, and he was instantly drawn to Nesta. As I mentioned earlier, Eris has been intrigued by her since long before this - see the High Lords meeting in ACOWAR. Helion would gladly get into her leathers, and while I'm aware that's not saying much, his focus on her is slightly higher than you see it on others he would also slide into bed with. She doesn't need Elain to dull herself down to shine.

I also think the one observation about how the black 'wore her' matters. It makes me wonder more about this court, both the general Night Court, and the people in the Inner Circle. Is the court wearing her? Is it sucking the life out of her? Is this why we don't see as much spine from Elain? We got some in this book, but it was all in an attempt to prove she belongs to this court. Something she feels the need to do, as we see in Cassian's reflection:

When Feyre had offered to let her remain home, Elain had squared her shoulders and declared that she was a part of this court—and would do whatever was needed.

…but wearing black, no matter how much she claimed to be part of this court … It sucked the life from her.

First of all, just quickly, I want to mention the ellipses before it says 'it sucked the life from her', and what came right before that. Is Cassian talking about the black? Or is he talking about being a part of this court? I don't have the answer, just food for thought.

I can't help but notice that Elain seems to feel the need to constantly prove, declare, and claim that she is part of this court. She has to push her way through, and while I know it's in part because so many people try to protect her, I think it's more than that. I believe Elain wants to be a part of the Night Court, but in the end it's not suited to her, and so she has to force her way in, when even Nesta, who everyone has been so displeased with, manages to fall in much easier. It's not because they don't like Elain, that's obvious. I believe it's because, in the end, they all see it.

It reminds me a lot of Tywin Lannister's quote from GoT (TV series, I won't read the books until George RR Martin finishes them):

Any man who must say, "I am the King", is no true king.

Could you not adjust this to: "Any person who must say, 'I am part of this court', is not truly part of this court."

I don't think Nesta has once said that. Feyre, maybe, but not in the same way as much as in letting certain people outside the court know. But, to have to say that within the court - it signifies that either you, yourself, don't believe yourself part of the court, or that maybe you aren't truly. Or that you are, but you recognize that maybe it's not the right fit, even if you really want it to be.

In the end, while I don't think Elain can't fit or find a nice life in the Night Court, the final point is that she doesn't shine in the Night Court. And that's not the same as saying she fully doesn't belong. But, shouldn't home be a place where you shine? Where you can be everything you are, and it is absolutely right? Isn't that what Nesta found in Silver Flames, in the House, with Cassian, and Gwyn, and Emerie,…and the House? She didn't have to be anything other than who she was, with any of them, and she still found a place that not only provided her comfort, but where she could truly shine. And she's found it in the Night Court, as well.

Elain hasn't. And maybe that's just because we haven't seen her story play out yet. I'm not so stuck up to believe there's no way I could be wrong. In fact, what bugs me the most about a lot of posts around these different beliefs is the use of 'when' instead of 'if', because no one wants to admit that, at this point in time, no matter what side you're on, it very much is an 'if'. None of us know what SJM has planned. All we can do is use the information we've been given to make as educated a guess as possible. This is mine, and SJM may prove me completely wrong, and that's okay. She may end up giving Elain a more similar arc to Nesta, and show how she develops and grows into someone who flourishes in the Night Court with Az by her side, and should she do that, I hope it's in a way I can understand and not something poorly developed and difficult to grasp.

A Mate is A Mate is A Mate

I won't talk too much about how she and Azriel aren't mates and how that automatically means they couldn't work. It could, in concept. I won't address the theories about her ending up with multiple mates. I do not agree with these theories, as they conflict with the canon we have. Until SJM puts out canon information that can explain a contradiction to what we've been given, any theory that truly contradicts the canon provided I will not consider, whether I like it or not. Multiple mates is not a thing. Being able to sever the mating bond so that someone can have a new mate is not a thing. I do recognize that females can reject the mating bond, and I am not saying whether or not I think Elain should or shouldn't do this with Lucien. Nor am I saying that having a story where someone does reject the mating bond to see how that plays out wouldn't be great.

I will point out, however, that it is often discussed as a thing females do. Females reject the mating bond. Males who have a female that rejected the mating bond grow incredibly uncomfortable, and they truly struggle.

...there will always be a ... tug. For the females, it is usually easier to ignore, but the males ... It can drive them mad.

I'm not going to include all the stuff about males thinking their mate belongs to them. Grow up, Prythian. Get with the program. But, considering this, considering the other pieces we get, I do not know if a male can be with another person, truly, in a loving relationship if he has a mate. Maybe one day, years and years and years after the rejection. Or maybe, if his mate doesn't fit his preferences - if that is a thing (and honestly, we don't yet know the status of same-sex mates, but if they are a thing - please let them be - then I have a harder time believing that those who have specific preferences would end up in a mating pair with the wrong gender).

I am not saying this to say that Elain and Lucien should be together. I am saying this because, considering all these things, right now, canon information essentially tells us that, should Az find his mate, he will go to her, need to be around her. Think about Cassian when Feyre asked why he bothers with Nesta:

Because I can't stay away.

Think about how Lucien couldn't help but try to find Elain, despite direct orders of being told not to. Or about how the second Rhys heard Feyre say 'no' in her mind to Tamlin, he was there to take her away. They just can't help it. The mating bond has a stronger pull on males.

And, maybe Az would be able to deny the bond. To reject it himself, who knows. But, based on everything we've been told, that would be incredibly difficult. And, considering how much he wants what his brothers have, would he want to?

Obviously, there is reason to believe Az does have a mate, and we've met her. And I know some people disagree with this. I would be interested to hear any theories about why he and Gwyn aren't mates, so long as they don't involve Elain. It's not that I have anything against her, it's just that those arguments don't actually point to Gwyn and Az not being mates, just that the person believes Elain and Az belong together regardless, which is not an argument for why they're not mates. But if there are any reasons or signs found in the books and canon information that distinctly point against Gwyn and Az being mates, then I'm open to hearing those points. And, as I mentioned, I do not entertain any canon-conflicting theories, such as the multiple mates one.

As it stands, though, I do think we have been directed toward the idea that Gwyn and Az are mates, and can believe that the mating bond will snap into place. Once it does, I have a hard time believing Az will actually be able to stay away. And that, even if Gwyn ends up rejecting that bond, I don't know that he'll be able to be with Elain after it, knowing Elain isn't his first choice.

Final Thoughts

Like I said earlier, I'm not against Elain rejecting the mating bond, or anyone doing so. I will say this, though - how much more powerful would it be to have someone reject the mating bond not because they wish to be with someone else, but just because they do not wish to be with that person? Is it not more empowering to see a female (or male, if they can do it) choose to be single, and live their life as they are solely because they just do not wish to be with that person? Instead of it being more of an, 'well, it's just, I'd rather be with him'. Sadly, I do not think Elain is set up to be that person. Gwyn could, potentially, be, though I'll admit I don't believe it, considering the attention Gwyn pays to him. But I do think it's worth noting that, in my opinion, the mating bond can be rejected even if there is not another male in the picture.

However, despite all the questions and uncertainties, until we get answers, this is my personal view, based on what I've seen in the books, and how I've interpreted it. I personally feel that, regardless of who I hope ends up with whom, SJM has placed a number of clues and hints to show that Elain and Azriel aren't meant to be together, that they wouldn't be right together. And that, if they were to be together, the relationship would likely be unhealthy, and potentially toxic.

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This post is also not meant to insult or attack Elain in any way, nor Azriel. Nor am I trying to insult or attack those who ship them together. We are all welcome to our own opinions. I promise to respect yours, please respect mine.

#acotar #acomaf #acowar #acofas #acosf #sarah j mass #azriel #elain archeron #nesta archeron #cassian #feyre archeron #rhysand #gwyn berdara #lucien #gwynriel #elucien #anti elriel

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acourtofthought · 1 year

Note

Taking into account that we have two more books (acotar 5 and acotar6). What plot do you think each will be focused on? couple + romance + background plot

I'm sorry it took me over a day to respond, yesterday was CRAZY for me. I can't remember the last time I moved nonstop all day long.

I know what I'm about to write doesn't line up with other Eluciens and Gwynriels or even what SJM herself said recently about CC3 being the next release but in my mind, and considering the crossover having now been introduced, this is where I see the next two books going:

I know most think Gwynriel is next but for some reason I still struggle seeing it.

There's a back of the book interview being shared which tells us where SJM was at with this series a few years ago:

At one point SJM had no clue who the third book would be about. She knew the first was Nessian's, she knew who the second was about, but not the final one. In ACOMAF, Elucien became Mates then we were left with a will they / won't they in ACOWAR. ACOFAS set up for the upcoming spinoffs and in it we have many hints as to Elain's developing powers (her stealth like behavior) and Feyre encouraging Elain to get to know Lucien though she claims she has no interest in a Mate or a Male. Mor also talks about Elain and Lucien needing time to figure themselves out before they'll be ready to deal with the bond. In the back of the book interview we see that SJM did a bunch of research for Elain’s book. If she knew Nessian was first, and always knew an Az book was second, why would she claim she had no idea who the third would be about while doing research for Elains book? In my opinion, Az had not had the same build up and as many unresolved storylines as Lucien and Elain so again, it seems like she wasn't always 100% certain Az would be getting his own story until closer to when she wrote SF.

I also think it makes more sense for an Elucien story to come after Nessian because theirs will probably involve less of the IC than we're used to seeing. If you think of TOD, it took us to new parts of the TOG world and only had mentions of Aelin and the gang. Chaol and Nesryns journey's were still important because the relationships they made were vital to the war in the final book which is when we returned to the others. Elucien feels similar to me. That the ties Lucien has to other Courts and the relationships they build on their travels will be necessary to the war in the final book. And an Az book being the last book will bring it back full circle, back to the IC. Gwynriel will be the main characters of that one but it can't be denied that you can't have a final battle without Feyre and Rhys being heavily involved (and Nessian). Gwyn and Az will have the closest relationship to these characters. And a final battle would make sense from a warriors POV rather than Eluciens.

As far as plot, I think Eluciens book will be next. Not only from what I've stated above but also the fact that the Feysand Bonus Chapter says "let's help one sister before we help the next" and Nesta places Elain's rose carving on her father's headstone "as the marker of beauty and good he tried to bring into this world". Tell me the fact that this being on the last page of SF doesn't seem like foreshadowing that her book is coming up?

Quick takes for plot as I've written longer posts on this and don't want to bore you with having to reread through it all:

I think Lucien will still be stationed in Spring and Elain will either felt drawn there by the Mothers voice, the drums of Fire Night or Rhys will figure out a reason to send her that way. I think Elain will not only be an owl shifter but have healing powers which will be important in helping her heal the lands of Spring and restore the faith to its people. I'm seeing a Great Rite scene with Elucien and I also see them traveling to the continent with Jurian to defeat Koschei and free Vassa. I see Lucien discovering that Helion is his father and everything that goes along with that (his relationship with Eris, his mother, Beron). I'm sure Elain will have some minor confrontation with her sisters though I don't imagine anything dramatic because she doesn't seem to hold major grudges with them and she has already apologized to Feyre for the past. And I see both Lucien and Elain overcoming any past feelings for their lost loves.

Then I see Gwynriel being the final book. I think Gwyn will discover she is a Siren of some sort and that will initially upset her because she'd worry that having a power like could be too tempting. For me, canonically sweet Gwyn needs a touch of darkness to really be an equal match for the darkness in Az so maybe she's bothered by the fact that she wants to use her power for revenge and that won't seem priestess like to her. I think Az will show her that it doesn't matter if you have darkness inside of you, that you are still "good" as long as you're making the choice to only use it against those who harm your loved ones. I think his helping Gwyn realize that will also help Az understand the same about himself. I think his journey will involve his past issues with the Illyrians and I think their story will also involve Eris taking over Autumn, Az and Eris's past with Mor, and I think Gwyn will find Narben. And of course, the final battle against the Asteri who will make their way through the portals and land in Prythian.

#pro elucien #elucien #elain archeron #pro gwynriel #gwynriel #azriel acotar #gwyn acotar #acotar lucien #acotar elain #acotar theory #sarah j maas

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foxybananaaaz · 3 years

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I’ve commented on a few posts now expressing how Lucien is an incredibly important character, but I don’t think I’ve done a post specifically about why.

I want to explain it all in full, without feeling like I’m being a nuisance in clogging up comments of posts because of the stupid character limits in replies.

So consider this post it.

I’m going to put all my thoughts on this in one large post, so I(and others if they want too) can reference back here.

Any thoughts and additions to this post is not only welcomed, but encouraged.

So I’m going to start. (I’m putting it under a read more as I plan on writing a lot for this, so yeah)

Still here? Awesome! Thanks!! Let’s just jump right in.

So I’m going to start off by expressing how I genuinely don’t know why people can’t or won’t understand that Lucien is the very character you do not want to piss off? He is basically holding all of the cards without realizing it. Not that he would intentionally start a fight.

There is a war brewing amongst the Courts of Prythian. This is heavily hinted at, especially throughout Silver Flames. Ever since Eris mentioned wanting to kill Beron and his reasons why, we have known there is war on the horizon.

While we believe that Beron will be the cause of this war, what starts it, as he marches on Spring, and human lands as well, for more territory for Autumn, I believe this to be a total red herring.* I believe this because I completely think that this war will be started because of Lucien.

No I don’t believe Lucien will actively start this war, but I believe he will be the cause of it. And I think it will come from the Blood Duel so heavily hinted at during Azriels bonus chapter for Silver Flames. But before I explain why, I’m going to explain just how this could happen to begin with.

Lucien Vanserra is a character, that is the political key to having a positive link with four out of seven courts, as well as the human lands. Lucien Vanserra alone has deep personal ties with these territories, where as everyone else is unable to attain themselves.

(1) Starting with where he was born, Luciens connection to the Autumn Court is easy to understand. He was born a son of Autumn. He was raised as Berons son. His mother is the lady of the court, and the only one of his brothers who carries any kind of good will towards him is set to become High Lord when Beron dies. Lucien, though he despises the Autumn Court is very, personally, deeply linked with it.

(2) Then Lucien moved to the Spring Court after Jesmindas death. He fled here, seeking refuge, and he received the refuge he sought. Tamlin could have given Lucien a place to live and left it at that. He didn’t have to become friends, or even take Lucien as his emissary. But he did. And in his time in the Spring Court, Lucien and Tamlin became really close friends. They became best friends. He spent hundreds of years as Tamlins best friend. They may not be as close anymore, but that does not erase the deep, personal ties to the Spring Court he has.

(3) Then after leaving the Spring Court, he went to the Night Court. His friend Feyre lives there, as does his mate Elain. While there isn’t a centuries long personal tie with the Night Court, the fact that Elain willingly chooses to live there keeps Lucien tied to it, for the simple fact that Elain is his mate. Rhys knows this(and I’ll touch on that in length in a little bit).

(4) After he can feel he isn’t overly welcome in the Night Court, how he makes Elain feel uncomfortable at the moment, he leaves. At this point, Elain is the ONLY thing keeping him there, as his once close friendship with Feyre is now extremely rocky, near nonexistent. So he leaves to the Human Lands, so Elain is comfortable. In these human lands, he forms close friendships with key humans, Jurian and Vassa. Jurian leading armies, and Vassa one of the Mortal Queens. Lucien is close friends with them, lives with them. Lucien isn’t just “staying with these humans” because he is actively living with them.

(5) This leaves his personal connection to the one place Lucien is completely unaware of, and quite possibly the one place and person that would be the hardest loss for Rhys, should things go horribly. Lucien is completely unaware of a deep personal link with the Day Court, as Lucien genuinely does not know that Helion is his father. Helion is unaware of this connection as well.

This is five major territories that Lucien alone holds very deep and personal connections with. Having Lucien allied to you means you have found political gold. Rhys knows this. Rhys is aware how politically important Lucien is, and he is shown to do what he can to hold onto Lucien as long as he can. He showed that he is actively trying to hold onto Lucien during Azriels bonus chapter.

Rhys catches Azriel and Elain almost kissing on the night of Solstices. He catches them kissing when Elain still has the mating bond with Lucien open, and fate undecided, also while Lucien is currently under the very same roof. While Rhys personally could have gone about stopping the kiss in a better way, we are very lucky it was Rhys who saw it and not Lucien.

I have seen people comment on how Lucien being biologically Helions son, means he has no right to enact a blood duel. This could not be further from the truth.

Yes it is true that Lucien is Helions biological son, this truth does not erase the fact that Lucien was raised in Autumn Court, as Berons son, with Autumn Traditions. The entirety of Prythian, with the exception of Lady Vanserra, Rhys and Feyre, believe Lucien to be a true son of Beron and Autumn, and would expect nothing out of sorts if Lucien enacts a blood duel for his mate. He has every right to call on that duel.

But just because Lucien himself has every right to enact a Blood Duel for Elain, does not mean he will. Everything in his character so far, says he would very much not do this. Despite how it has to hurt him, he has done everything he is capable of to make Elain as comfortable as possible. He moved out of not only Velaris, but the entire Night Court. He only shows up due to business and holidays. The only time we have seen him actively try to engage with Elain during his visits, is when he gives Elain her solstice gifts. He even mentions to Cassian that he doesn’t only come to the Night Court for his mate. Lucien is 100% giving Elain all the space she needs. He would not enact a blood duel, if Elain and Azriel end up together. He’s shown to fight against the mating instincts before with Greyson, so they, while fierce, wouldn’t make him fight.

When Rhys brings up the topic of the Blood Duel to Azriel, it is with hopes to steer Azriel away from Elain, but Azriel admits that he is not only aware of this possibility, but believes he would win it. A duel to the death, Azriel shows readiness, willingness, and confidence that he will fight in it, and win.

I personally don’t think Azriel would win. Yes, he has been training in the art of battle his whole life, he is not more powerful than Lucien though. Lucien is believed to be Berons true son, because the fire power from his mother is so strong, it showed up and is very active within Lucien. He also has the pure power that only comes with being the direct Heir of a High Lord. Lucien is extremely powerful. So even if he does not enact this Blood Duel, he would not lose just because Azriel is skilled in the art of battle.

I 100% believe it will be Azriel who initiates this fight, which is why I believe that we are lucky it was Rhys that stopped the kiss. I believe Azriel would start the Blood Duel, which would then be the breaking point, having Lucien explode in such a large display of light, revealing his power to its true extent, and revealing his true parentage to the world.

Remember when I mentioned above, that the Day Court and Helions connection to Lucien, could quite possibly be the most catastrophic to Rhys? Let me explain that.

So if Azriel enacts this duel, he starts it, causing the truth to be revealed. Helion and by extension Day Court has been Rhys’ longest and closest ally amongst the Courts. But if it comes out that Lucien is his son, while he is in an active Blood Duel, with an Illyrian Warrior, who also so happens to be Rhysands brother? Helions going to have opinions. He is going to be angry.

This could cause a catastrophic fall out between Night and Day, because if it is revealed that Rhys not only knew the truth about Lucien and Helion, but didn’t do more to keep Lucien safe, that will very much not go well for Rhys. All ties and alliance between Night and Day would crumble.

Rhys’s already unstable and rocky relations with the Autumn and Spring Courts would also fall apart. Tamlin, having been waiting for an excuse to fight against Rhys, stepping in because his former best friend actively in danger, would join in any fight against Rhys. Beron who had been itching for a war regardless, would step in, not for Luciens benefit, but under the guise of such. “He isn’t my son but I still raised him as my son, and you deliberately put him in harms way.” In sense. Vassa being a Mortal Queen, and Jurian leading the Mortal Armies, would step in if needed.

We have four territories now suddenly turning against the Night Court and by extension Rhys and Feyre. A war has been brewing, and this very Blood Duel could be the very single cause of this war.

Remember, Lucien is political gold. Even within the Night Court. Nesta, the current most powerful Fae living on this planet, the sole person able to control the three Dread Trove items, could very well turn against Rhys, siding with Lucien, as she believes Azriel and Rhys didn’t stop this Blood Duel from starting knowing it could severely impact Elain. (HIGHLIGHTING THIS PARAGRAPH BECAUSE THE ELR*IELS STOLE THIS SOLE PARAGRAPH AND THOUGHT THEY DID SOMETHING AGAINST ME)

People who ship Elain and Azriel, rather, the toxic people who ship them sorry, and want Elain and Azriel to have this forbidden romance, implies they rather Elain leave Lucien and the Mating Bond in limbo, forget him, let him suffer, unable to find someone else. These people who so want a “forbidden love” show how they truly do not understand the absolute chaos and how cataclysmic this “Forbidden Romance” trope can be.

This isn’t just “Oh Luciens feelings will be hurt.” No. We are talking possible out right full on war. And this war won’t stop once Elain publicly makes a decision either. There has been build up for a huge fight between Tamlin and Rhysand. There has been build up for an, incredibly more interesting, immense fight between Beron and Helion.

Let’s also not forget why Mor is on the continent. She is trying to get the Fae territories over there to go with peace and sign treaties. Treaties in hopes to prevent war. Those Fae Territories would also come into play should there be war, they aren’t open to signing the treaties yet.

This is messy. This will not stop easily. This will be horrible. Beloved lives may be lost. Alliances broken forever. Pure chaos and full on war.

All for the “Forbidden Love” trope.

The toxic Elain/Azriel shippers who want the forbidden love trope regardless, show that they either do not understand the ramifications that come with it, or just don’t care.

Lucien is not some side character with no weight. Lucien is the only Heir of Day. He is also a former best friend of Spring, and half son of Autumn. He has formed really close friendships with the Human Lands, and his mate currently lives in Night.

No I don’t think he would start a Blood Duel with Azriel for Elain, he would find a way to live with Elains choice if she chose Azriel, but that doesn’t mean Azriel wouldn’t start the duel. That doesn’t mean Luciens ally’s wouldn’t step in. That doesn’t mean war won’t happen.

Dont act like you care about the fact that Elain has a choice, only when it benefits you and your ship. Both ships are valid. Stop shitting on Eluciens and by extension Lucien just because we have key points in our favour. We don’t do that to you.

Whether you like it or not, Lucien is one of the most important characters in this series. You can not deny that his political ties, that he alone holds, makes him one of the most powerful and influential players in all of Prythian.

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Use this post and the points I’ve made for yourself if you want. If I have missed any key points don’t hesitate to let me know. I feel very passionately about this.

* Red Herring :: something, especially a clue, that is or is intended to be misleading or distracting.

#Luciens powerful #he stopped Cassians mate induced rage with only two words #calm down #and cassian came out of his rage #he didn’t even try #he’s a powerhouse #plus he’s fucking important #don’t deny it #lucien vanserra #lucien spell cleaver #elucien #elain archeron #elain/lucien #lucien x elain #anti e/riel #anti elriel #Elain has a right to choose Lucien

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