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#queerness in television
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Punishing the queer characters and heavily queer coded relationship in IASIP with death or the annihilation of their relationships is like killing Villanelle in Killing Eve to me. I can see what they would be going for, wrapping up a story about terrible people doing terrible things, but I fundamentally disagree that self-righteous narrative punishment has a place in these types of stories at all.
The concept of narrative punishment becomes complicated, too, when you have a blatantly queer narrative. Killing Eve, for example, was about Eve's corruption and it would've been more subversive if her and Villanelle had either ended up as 'murder wives' or eternally homoerotic rivals. Punishing them with Villanelle's death just as they got together after seasons of dancing around each other was... comically predictable in all the worst ways. Hannibal understood this I think, probably because the creator was gay himself, and Will and Hannibal's deaths are a question mark they plunged into together rather than a certainty dictated by a self-righteousness that's out of place within the context of the story.
In the context of IASIP, these characters serve the purpose of exaggeratedly pointing to all the ways our current society can obliterate self-development, especially if they were already different in the first place, or mentally unwell, or raised by frankly terrible people and didn't have the capacity to develop any processing skills. IASIP says, "The society we live in created these individuals and now you have to deal with them." The way in which they're broken means that the only real relationships they can hold onto is with each other, it's a bit too cruel to want it ripped apart or away from them, even buried as it is in toxic masculinity, misogyny, and internalized homophobia.
That's why punishing Dennis with a Deeless, Macless, and Charlieless existence doesn't appeal to me as an ending at all. The satire uses all of them to make a point about the structures we exist in that shape us and any lasting individual punishment overrides the commentary they made about how manufactured the characters are. Furthermore, punishing Dennis like this specifically as his queer subtext is made textual after a frustrating 16 season struggle to finally accept this part of himself (and this part of Mac) bombs all that progress entirely. Once again the queer guy loses, the society that shaped him wins. It's a pretty bleak treatise on humanity in general and I'd rather live in a ending where they get to be their terrible selves together.
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bookshelfdreams · 6 months
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That is certainly - a statement.
What about Jim, who both metaphorically and literally discovers a path for themself beyond what they were raised to be? What about Pete, who learns to overcome his toxic masculinity, his posturing and self-importance? What about Ed, whose entire story is about deconstructing the performance that is expected of him?
What about, oh, idk, our main fucking character Stede Bonnet, whose arc starts with him literally breaking out from the hetero marriage he was forced into despite never fitting in? Who tries (and initially fails) to build a community where he can be himself? Whose entire story is about discovering his own queerness! He starts out not even able to put a finger on WHY his marriage made him feel so suffocated, and then journeys through s1 until he reaches the emotional climax - "His name is Ed"!
Contrast that with Izzy, who has to be dragged into a supportive community kicking and screaming. Who rejects care and compassion, even at his worst, who has to be forced to accept help. He receives the leg and calls the crew a homophobic slur for it, ffs. Only after that, only when people refuse to let him push them away, is he able to poke his nose into something approaching positive human connections. And that's a powerful narrative, sure, in it's own way; but it's hardly the Ultimate Queer Experience, and it's definitely not the "only queer arc".
And Izzy never lets go of the old ways. He never abandons the Blackbeard-era pirate lifestyle for something more positive, not fully. And that's okay, because ultimately, his arc isn't even about himself.
It's about Ed.
Ed keeps repeating toxic relationship patterns, and Izzy is a part of that. He's linked (on purpose, and I wish it had been done more explicitly) to Ed's father; because Izzy represents the poison that was instilled in Ed from a young age, and that has become so entrenched in his system that he can't imagine a life without it. He keeps Izzy around despite being hurt by him because Izzy is predictable, and in that, is safe, even though he hurts Ed; at least it's a hurt Ed is familiar with and can rely on.
When Izzy slowly changes it's to show that Ed is growing beyond the little voice in his head telling him to reject softness, that he can never be loved, that We're just not these kinds of people. If Izzy can evolve from someone spitting boyfriend at Ed like it's a slur to someone congratulating him on getting laid by that same person, Ed can overcome his inner demons telling him the same thing.
That's the point of Izzy's arc. And this is why he has to die, because Ed can never be truly free as long as Izzy is around. So Izzy goes, quietly, peacefully, and releases Ed of the poison; apologizes to him, tells him I was so wrong, and I am so sorry, because that's what Ed needs to hear to move forward.
And that's such a kind, positive way to end the story of Izzy Hands.
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i think the second you start putting together a list of the writers and what their gender/sexuality identities are for the sake of proving the ofmd writers room isn’t as queer as you think it should be you’re already in too deep. the fact that an izzy fan did all that AND went even FURTHER and just openly assumed everyone was cishet if they couldn’t immediately find evidence otherwise is beyond parody. i can’t even find it in me to be upset or anything i’m just amazed at how little self-awareness some ppl have. how do you type all that up and post it without ever stopping to think “wait is this a shitty thing i’m doing” like babe what is WRONG with you
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forsapphics · 1 month
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Roberta Colindrez as Nico in season 3 of Vida (2018 - 2020)
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im-not-just-one · 1 year
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Warrior Nun Writers: God is a woman (possibly evil), Jesus is bisexual chaos, give that Nun a gun
The Sapphics: ....go on
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angelsdean · 5 months
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I need people to understand how S&P (standards and practices) works in television and how much influence they have over what gets to stay IN an episode of a show and how the big time network execs are the ones holding the purse strings and making final decisions on a show's content, not the writers / showrunners / creatives involved.
So many creators have shared S&P notes over the years of the wild and nonsensical things networks wanted them to omit / change / forbid. Most famously on tumblr, I've seen it so many times, is the notes from Gravity Falls. But here's a post compiling a bunch of particularly bad ones from various networks too. Do you see the things they're asking to be changed / cut ?
Now imagine, anything you want to get into your show and actually air has to get through S&P and the network execs. A lot of creators have had to resort to underhanded methods. A lot of creators have had to relegate things to subtext and innuendo and scenes that are "open to interpretation" instead of explicit in meaning. Things have had to be coded and symbolized. And they're relying on their audience to be good readers, good at media literacy, to notice and get it. This stuff isn't the ramblings of conspiracy theorists, it's the true practices creatives have had to use to be able to tell diverse stories for ages. The Hays Code is pretty well known, it exists because of censorship. It was a way to symbolize certain things and get past censors.
Queercoding, in particular, has been used for ages in both visual media and literature do signal to queer audiences that yes, this character is one of us, but no, we can't be explicit about it because TPTB won't allow it. It's a wink-wink, nudge-nudge to those in the know. It's the deliberate use of certain queer imagery / clothing / mannerisms / phrases / references to other queer media / subtle glances and lingering touches. Things that offer plausible deniability and can be explained away or go unnoticed by straight audiences to get past those network censors. But that queer viewers WILL (hopefully) pick up on.
Because, unfortunately, still to this day, a lot of antiquated network execs don't think queer narratives are profitable. They don't think they'll appeal to general audiences, because that's what matters, whatever appeals to most of the audience demographic so they can keep watching and keep making the network more money. The networks don't care about telling good stories! Most of them are old white cishet business men, not creatives. They don't care about character arcs and what will make fans happy. They don't care about storytelling. What they care about is profit and they're basing their ideas of what's profitable on what they believe is the predominate target demographic, usually white cis heterosexual audiences.
So, imagine a show that started airing in the early 2000s. Imagine a show where the two main characters are based on two characters from a famous Beat Generation novel, where one of the characters is queer! based on a real like bisexual man! The creator is aware of this, most definitely. And sure, it's 2005, there's no way they were thinking of making that explicit about Dean in the text because it just wouldn't fly back then to have a main character be queer. But! it's made subtext. And there are nods to that queerness placed in the text. Things that are open to interpretation. Things that are drenched in metaphor (looking at you 1x06 Skin "I know I'm a freak" "maybe this thing was born human but was different...hated. Until he learned to become someone else.") Things that are blink-and-you-miss-it and left to plausible deniability (things like seemingly spending an hour in the men's bathroom, or always reacting a little vulnerable and awkward when you're clocked instead of laughing it off and making a homophobic joke abt it)
And then, years later there's a ship! It's popular and at first the writers aren't really seriously thinking about it but they'll throw the fans a bone here and there. Then, some writers do get on the destiel train and start actively writing scenes for them that are suggestive. And only a fraction of what they write actually makes it into the text. So many lines left on the cutting room floor: i love past you. i forgive you i love you. i lost cas and it damn near broke me. spread cas's ashes alone. of course i wanted you to stay. if cas were here. -- etc. Everything cut was not cut by the writers! Why would a writer write something to then sabotage their own story and cut it? No, these are things that didn't make it past the network. Somewhere a note was made maybe "too gay" or "don't feed the shippers" or simply "no destiel."
So, "no destiel." That's pretty clearly the message we got from the CW for years. "No destiel. Destiel will alienate our general audience. Two of our main characters being queer? And in a relationship? No way." So what can the pro-destiel creatives involved do, if the network is saying no? What can the writers do if most of their explicit destiel (or queer dean) lines / moments are getting cut? Relegate things to subtext. Make jokes that straight people can wave off but queer people can read into. Make costuming and set design choices that the hardcore fans who are already looking will notice while the general audience and the out-of-touch network execs won't blink and eye at (I'm looking at you Jerry and your lamps and disappearing second nightstands and your gay flamingo bar!)
And then, when the audience asks, "is destiel real? is this proof of destiel?" what can the creatives do but deny? Yes, it hurts, to be told "No no I don't know what you're talking about. There's no destiel in supernatural" a la "there is no war in Ba Sing Se" but! if the network said "no destiel!" and you and your creative team have been working to keep putting destiel in the subtext of the narrative in a way that will get past censors, you can't just go "Yes, actually, all that subtext and symbolism you're picking up, yea it's because destiel is actually in the narrative."
But, there's a BIG difference between actively putting queer themes and subtext into the narrative and then saying it's not there (but it is! and the audience sees it!) versus NOT putting any queer content into the text but SAYING it is there to entice queer fans to continue watching. The latter, is textbook queerbaiting. The former? Is not. The former is the tactics so many creatives have had to use for years, decades, centuries, to get past censorship and signal to those in the know that yea, characters like you are here, they exist in this story.
Were the spn writers perfect? No, absolutely not. And I don't think every instance of queer content was a secret signal. Some stuff, depending on the writer, might've been a period-typical gay joke. These writers are flawed. But it's no secret that there were pro-destiel writers in the writing room throughout the years, and that efforts were made to make it explicitly canon (the market research!)
So no, the writers weren't ever perfect or a homogeneous entity. But they definitely were fighting an uphill battle constantly for 15 yrs against S&P and network execs with antiquated ideas of what's profitable / appealing.
Spn even called out the networks before, on the show, using a silly example of complaints abt the lighting of the show and how dark the early seasons were. Brightening the later seasons wasn't a creative choice, but a network choice. And if the networks can complain abt and change something as trivial as the lighting of a show, they definitely are having a hand in influencing the content of the show, especially queer content.
Even in s15, (seasons fifteen!!!) Misha has said he worried Castiel's confession would not air. In 2020!!! And Jensen recorded that scene on his personal phone! Why? Sure, for the memories. But also, I do not doubt for a second that part of it was for insurance, should the scene mysteriously disappear completely. We've seen the finale script. We've seen the omitted omitted omitted scenes. We all saw how they hacked the confession scene to bits. The weird cuts and close-ups. That's not the writers doing. That's likely not even the editors (willingly). That's orders from on high. All of the fuckery we saw in s15 reeks of network interference. Writers are not trying to sabotage their own stories, believe me.
Anyways, TLDR: Networks have a lot more power than many think and they get final say in what makes it to air. And for years creative teams have had to find ways to get past network censorship if they want "banned" or "unapproved" "unprofitable" "unwanted" content to make it into the show. That means relying on techniques like symbolism, subtext, and queercoding, and then shutting up about it. Denying its there, saying it's all "open to interpretation" all while they continue to put that open to interpretation content into the show. And that's not queerbaiting, as frustrating as it might be for queer audiences to be told that what they're seeing isn't there, it's still not queerbaiting. Queerbaiting is a marketing technique to draw in queer fans by baiting them with the promise of queer content and then having no queer content in said media. But if you are picking up on queer themes / subtext / symbolism / coding that is in front of your face IN the text, that's not queerbaiting. It's there, covertly, for you, because someone higher up didn't want it to be there explicitly or at all.
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oddwomen · 6 months
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1986
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sarnie-for-varney · 7 months
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YOU AIN'T SLICK
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little-cereal-draws · 4 months
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In a strange way, Izzy's speech to that nose prince guy is even better now. They can cancel ofmd, they can cancel every queer show they have, they can erase them from digital existence and leave them to rot in a vault, but that won't stop us. We'll remember the shows, we'll make more queer art, we'll tell more queer stories, we'll move away from them and start our own platforms if we have to. Nothing they can do will stop us because we're fucking pirates
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padawan-historian · 2 years
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Just in case anyone needed a reminder . . . corporations changing their logos to rainbow colors and making a "Happy Pride Month!" post on social media does not conceal the fact that these entities continue to fund antiqueer policymakers, profit and promote imperialist industries that perpetuate environmental racism and gentrification, sponsor "minority development and programs" that reinforce the white savior complex and civilizing [assimilationist] mission, exploit BIPOC culture and queerness in advertisement, resist collective organizing and union representation of their workers, and defend their capitalist interests all while claiming that "it's okay to say gay!"
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agneswarda · 1 month
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golden girls is so amazing i even made a powerpoint
(I copy-pasted the main text under the cut. unfortunately, I can't find the time for a proper alt text. life is stressful rn)
-Picture it: Miami, late 80s/early 90s. four 60+ women
-living together.
-Sure, they talk a lot about (straight) sex
-but what we see on screen is their dynamic. Their deep friendship. Their love also they often act quite gay with eachother. amazing
-Did i mention they are old. They are old and deal with getting sick and aging. A lot.
-But their life isn‘t over. They might not be related. But they are family, and they are here for each other
-These four women are the Golden Girls.
-You are in for a treat. A 7 seasons 25 episodes long treat
Introducing the girls: Dorothy Zbornak
-not to be a lesbian but omg
-Tall soft butch
-quick-witted
-sarcastic
-her voice *swoons*
-would make numbers on tumblr
-> her idea of a good time is being Alone wiht a book in her room
-> Huge dorky nerd
- Being vulnerable is not her strength but when she is It‘s amazing. Soft. makes me cry
Introducing the girls: Blanche Devereaux
-slutty
-sexy
-selfish
-sensitive
-Sensual
-Did i mention slutty
-And proud of it
-All these things are her strenghts as well as her weaknesses
 -She is actually quite complex
Introducing the girls: Rose Nylund
-Sweet
-Loving
-Kind
-caring
-Everyone says she‘s Dumb
-I think she might just Be neurodivergent?!??!!!! With her special interest
-Being St. Olaf
-The place she comes from
-Has amazing st olaf stories for everything
-Can also be a judgy bitch sometimes
Introducing the girls: Sophia Petrillo
-SHE WOULD MAKE NUMBERS ON TUMBLR
-„You're a funny little gnome, and we feed you too much.”
-This quote describes her perfectly
-It’s Dorothy who says it to her
-Who is incidentally her daughter
-Trickster energy
-Don‘t know if she is gay. But she commits crimes
-It‘s her way of dealing with old age
-And all the limitations it brings
-The show would just be half as funny without her
But op. Is it really this good. It‘s so old
I will admit: not everything aged well. Be also prepared for:
-it‘s v white. If they have characters of color, they sometimes work well. And sometimes it‘s embarassing to watch bc harmful stereotypes (not often but yeah. It happens.)
-Bodyshaming: the girls tease each other about their height, weight etc. and sometimes it can really become a lot/too much.
-Rose is so often the butt of the joke for not understanding situations. I think a lot of neurodivergent folks can relate. And it can hurt to hear the same old mean comments again and again
BUT
-This is a series which was never afraid of complicated topics
-First and foremost: the queer advocacy and topics were and still are amazing. The found family of it all alone.
-Also: death,being sick, being disabled. Getting old. Not performing the gender The way one would like to (anymore) (so. yes. Dysphoria. In a way). The financial aspect of it all. These are important topics which are treated with humor (of course) but also with respect
-it‘s a kind show which has its heart in the right place
-And i mean
-4 old women who are „just“ friends living together, supporting eachother?
-That shit is still revolutionary in the year of our lord 2024
So give it a chance!!!!11!!!!!111
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I will keep posting this video until people stop nohomoing queer interpretations of a narrative. There's no crisis of male friendship. It's the most explored relationship in storytelling.
When did a major ship between two male main characters become canon? What happened when they did? I can count on one hand but I'll use Queliot as an example. Quentin and Eliot slept together– they couldn't speak about it and it was handwaved as just a friend thing. They had a son together– they couldn't speak about it and it was handwaved as just a friend thing. The moment the story was allowed to stop tiptoeing around what Quentin and Eliot felt for each other beyond friendship, Quentin died.
Hoping two main characters with a homoerotic friendship don't become canon either because you want to punish their fans (petty and hurtful) or to sanctify male friendship (?) isn't championing queer narratives. Pretending television storytelling doesn't do this particular type of nohomoing time and again with their sexually ambiguous main characters relationships is willfully blind and not championing anything.
Where are the lines between friendship and romance anyway? I don't think they're as defined as people seem to want them to be. M/F romance is allowed to explore this question all the time but the moment a popular male ship is on the verge of potential realisation there's such a sudden concern for sexualizing male intimacy.
Here's the thing though, romance doesn't have to include sex to matter and sexual relationships can be unromantic in television storytelling.
What's more romantic, Quentin and Alice having sex then immediately sniping at each other or Quentin and Eliot's relationship amounted to the beauty of all life? Using Buddie as an example, what's more romantic for a man who's afraid of being used and abandoned, the time Taylor negged Buck into sleeping with her then immediately leaving or the time Eddie legally made Buck a key part of his and Christopher's life?
I get that fandom projection can be overbearing and if you ask me, "do you think Buddie becomes canon?" I'd say... not in my experience. A lot of their homoeroticism can be retroactively explained because of Buck's canon bisexuality and I don't think US television is brave or bold enough to make that kind of statement with two male main characters. However, if you ask me what I thought about Buddie in relation to the narrative journey I've seen play out for their characters? Then I'd say it's one of the best relationships on the show and they make the most sense together given their particular needs, fears, and anxieties around romantic relationships. To not want that kind of queer narrative catharsis out of spite is honestly alien to me.
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dandralanee · 24 days
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🎬 Auditions on auditions on auditions…
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bluebeewings · 1 year
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I think one of my favorite genre of queer characters is the one were they weren’t intended to be queer when they were created but the acting, subtext etc, made the writers explore the character’s sexuality and we organically see them coming to terms with themself. It makes the viewer recontextualize every previous scene with the character and is also a great example of how transformative a show can be within itself. Korra and Asami, Mac (maybe the best example there is), Todd Chavez… I’d even include Tom
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jstor · 1 year
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Here's another great Open Access book on JSTOR for y'all:
The Queer Fantasies of the American Family Sitcom by the admirably named Tison Pugh. We can't decide whether we're more excited about the Brady Bunch or Hannah Montana!
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thebroccolination · 1 month
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OMAR RUDBERG: ON HIS OWN TERMS
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Omar Rudberg just made a post on Instagram confirming his queerness for what appears to be the first time expanding on his sexuality in more depth than before while expressing his gratitude for Young Royals and all that it’s meant to him. (EDIT: Unclear if Omar would use “queer” to describe himself currently, so I’ll go with “unlabeled” unless he states otherwise.)
It’s such a graceful and eloquent post, it’s clear that he’s had time to consider every word.
Even better, he’s twenty-five, well experienced in life, and by all appearances, he’s chosen to share this side of himself from a place of comfort and confidence.
And as soon as I finished reading, I thought, This is what every person should have: agency.
Whether it’s one’s sexuality or gender or identity or self-expression, everyone deserves to have the dignity of choosing when and how they share these aspects of themselves with the world.
I only know Omar through Young Royals and his posts on Instagram, but he’s always seemed very self-possessed and compassionate. I remember when Kit Connor was relentlessly harassed into coming out at eighteen, Omar and Edvin were vocally supportive of him and the nonsense he was put through.
I’m glad Omar could do this on his own terms. He seems lovely, and with his wealth of talent and drive, he’s sure to be the focal point in a thousand ways on a thousand stages.
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