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wolfish-trickster · 6 days

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Choso Kamo NSFW alphabet

A= Aftercare (what they’re like after the act)

After the very first time he would have no idea what an aftercare even is tbh XD. He would even be surprised how messy and full of fluids a good fucking can be. After several rounds he would get pretty exhausted so all he would want to do is fall asleep with yoj not caring how sticky either of you are (and honestly after what he did to you i feel like you wouldn't care either). But after few nights he realized that cuddling nice and clean after the act is way better. It took him some time but eventually he got there.

B= Body part (favorite body part their own or their lovers)

His favourite body part on you would be your neck and chest area. Nice to look at, nice to touch, to kiss, to feel the blood pumping under your skin, to paint bruises on etc.

As for himself he likes his physique a lot. Especially his thighs. And how much you like sitting on them.

C= Cum (anything that has to do with it)

(idek what to write here so here goes) his cum is milky white, thick, and the first time he came (like first time in his entire life) he played with it as if it was a slime. Out of pure curiosity he tried lickjng it to see how it tastes but he quickly spat it out and rinsed his mouth. He much prefers the way you taste, and how your juices look compared to his.

D= Dirty secret (Pretty self explanatory)

Before you guys started going out and after he made his research (more on that in the E part) he used to imagine what it would feel like to have you all to himself. It would happen only when he was bored tho. His mind would wander to you, how cute you looked that day, what it would feel like to hold your hand, to hug you, wondering if it's okay to hug you when he sees you next time and he doesn't even know how but all of these cute innocent thoughts always turned into him imagining you and him doing stuff he saw people do in porn. And he's imagining all that with a completely straight poker face.

E= Experience (do they know what they’re doing)

Exploring the human side of his for the very first time in his life meant he was a virgin when he met you. Once he started having feelings for you he asked around a bit to understand what's going on with him. Yuji had to explain the whole dating thing to him and recomended him some movies. In one of them there was a dirty scene. Again, he understood nothing so he had to go and do a small research (he watched porn XD). After the two of you started going out and after you brought up sleeping together for the first time he had to go back to do his reseach a little more thoroughly, to know what to do to make yoh and him feel great.

F= Favorite position

No matter where it happens it must happen while facing eachother. After trying several positions in the past Choso has always tried to flip you so you could face him before you or him came. He also likes it when he can feel your bare breasts touching his chest while you hug him.

G= Goofy (how serious are they)

Not very goofy I'm affraid. Sex is deeply intimate for him and he just doesn't feel like cracking jokes during it. It's a moment when he becomes one with you. Granted if something funny happens like for example him going so hard you guys crack bed he will chuckle but otherwise not much of a joker between the sheets.

H= Hair (grooming habits)

He trims at most. After watching porn during his research and seeing how bald the actors are down there he bought a razor to try it out on himself, ended up bleedjng on several different places. And even after doing it properly there was just something off about that feeling. So in the end he just decided to trim twice a month or so.

I= Intimacy (in the moment romantic or rough/dirty)

Hands down the biggest romantic in the world. Praises you, caresses you, kisses every damn inch of your skin he can reach. If he feels like it's too much for you or if he sees you making a weird expression he stops and asks you if you're okay and if you want to continue. The most romantic thing he does though is the way he asks to have sex with you: he just takes your hand, kisses the back of it, leans his forhead against your and asks "may i?" (homeboy copied it from one of the movies Yuji gave him but still, heart eyes mutherfucker)

J= Jack off (do they masturbate and how often)

Not too often. Only when you're not in the mood or if you're far away. Or when he has a dirty dream and wakes up in the middle of the night with a boner in his pants and you blissfully unaware in your dreamland. As much as you told him it's okay to wake you up whenever it happens he just doesn't have the heart and uses his hand instead.

K= Kink (kinks what they like possibly unusual)

As funny as it sounds he has made a list (again it was part of his research) for you guys to try and see what each of you likes. So far he really enjoys it when you praise him. He doesn't want to admit it to you yet but he's really into you being covered in liquids. It can be anything: his cum, your cum, chocolate, spit, whipped cream, blood (only counts for period blood, he blames his cursed technique for that one), etc.

L= Location (where they like to get it on)

Anywhere as long as it's in your house. He's an introvert. Enough said.

M= Motivation (things that makes them tick/turn ons)

You tracing his veins could be a turn on for him. Just imagine sitting on a couch, watching a movie, holding his hand and mindlessly dragging a finger over his veins up and down. Then you would look down on his croch and see a tent...

Another thing that could turn him on is you sitting on his lap and feeling your body on his dick. Even if you're not moving or doing anything to make it hard, it will still go hard.

N= No (turnoffs or absolutely won’t do)

Mommy or daddy kink. Something he didn't even include in the kink list. He is a family man alright but with boundaries. Even after explaining it to him he would still say it's basically incest even if it's just pretending. Also age play could be a big no no but you guys haven't gotten to that one yet. Even though i feel like he wouldn't be into that one either. He wants to be with a responsible adult just like he is. Plain and simple.

O= Oral (receiving or giving and how skillful they are)

He doesn't care that much. Some days he likes to give more than receive and would flat out refuse if you offer giving him head and some other days he won't even let you breathe with how fast he slides his cock in and out of your mouth.

As for his head giving style: baking with you gave him enough training. You know these hand machines mixing the ingredients. The ones with detachable thingies. Fuck it, these one:

Yup, licking those clean everytime you guys baked together gave his tongue enough training to drive you mad. So much so that everytime you see him lick one of those clean again makes you wet. He completely Pavloved you XD (science joke sorry)

P= Pace (how fast they are and how long they last in bed)

That little tease. He likes to switch between agonizingly slow, savouring the moment, making sure to feel every spongy part inside you, slowly exploring new and new spots to hit to make you see stars. And a moment later he is slaming inside you so hard you won't be able to sit properly the next day. He tends to speed up when he feels like either you or him are about to come. He does it subconsciously though. Once he tried to go slow the entire round and it took so much of his willpower he couldn't go any longer after both of you came.

Q= Quickie (do they prefer fast and hard)

When he is extremely, and i repeat, EXTREMELY horny and both of you are very busy or just in a hurry he will pull down your pants/lift up your skirt and quickly do the deed, usually standing up.

R= Risk (do they like to try new things)

He wants to try everything at least once. Of course, there are some things he would never even think of trying (aforementioned mommy and daddy kink or age play) and there are other things he would want to try but is too affraid to hurt you (exploring his blood kink beyond you being on your period with knifeplay or something like that but ultimately decides against it in fear of seriously injuring you)

S= Stamina (how many times they can go and how long each round lasts)

Not being entirely human has its benefits. If he takes 10 minute breaks after each round he can go an entire night, which is rare but it still happens. Otherwise your usually love making session lasts around 1-2 hours. 3 if you beg hard enough ;)

T= Toys (are they game for using sex toys on themselves or lovers)

Doesn't see the point in toys tbh. Didlo? Why using something plastic when he has the organic? Handcuffs? His hands are big enough to hold your wrists in place. Blindfold? Can't see your face. Nipple clasps? He's scared it might be hurting you. Whips? Hell no. Flesh light for him? Why bother, he has you. Vibrator? Eeeh he might agree to that one if you bring it up.

U= Unfair (how do they tease or do they enjoy suspense themselves)

Doesn't tease much. Whenever he tries to tease you it won't last for long because he himself will give in XD.

Like he has been fingering you for quite some time now and really wants to tease you more but his own hard on is achjng too much for him to bare so he throws out his plan out the window and finally sinks deep inside you (to both of yours delight).

V= Volume (are they loud, what sounds, and do they talk)

Low grunts or growls is what he usually does. Again, he's an introvert, he doesn't like bringing too much attention. He much more prefers pulling noises out of you.

W= Wild card (random sincannon of any sort)

Let me tell you a story of Choso's first jack off. When he first met you you were training with other sorcerers and long story short he got a glimpse under your skirt. His dick got hard for the very first time and had no idea what it meant or how to get rid of it. He tried poking it and found out it feels good when you touch the head. Even better when you touch the entire thing. But his palm wasn't big enought to cover it all so he tried going up and down. He kept doing it for a while but didn't feel as good as before. Then he thought back to you when you and all of a sudden it felt amazing again. In fear of that feeling disappearing again he sped up his stroking and came all over his hand plus the place he was hiding at to deal with it.

So tldr you were the reason behind his first cumming.

X= X-ray (what’s down below in dem pants)

Big enough to bring you pleasure but not too big to cause you pain. I would say good 20 cm when erect with a slight curve upwards and a pretty visible vain on one side.

Y= Yearning (sexdrive level)

Before you his sexdrive was low to nonexistent. After he felt pleasure for the very first time he was all in. Well, to a level. After your first night together he wanted to do it every night, but soon found out that on some nights the events of the day simply exhausted him too much for anything. I would say that after he "got used to" sex and it was no longer a new thing for him his sex drive turned from horny rabbit to a moderate healthy one. Doesn't mean he won't fuck the life out of you on some nights tho...

Z= Zzzz (do they sleep after if so how quickly after)

Very fast. After he drains his balls he is so exhausted that sometimes he doesn't even want to pull out and wants to stay connected with you while sleeping. But, as i already mentioned, he found out it feels good when both of you are clean afterwards so he will force himself to not fall asleep long enough to clean both you and him and then once his head hits his pillow and pulls you into his arms he's gone.

#choso x reader #choso kamo x reader #choso kamo smut #choso smut #jjk choso #jjk smut

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sirenjose · 5 months

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Thoughts and Theories about "Identity Switches"

This will cover current Identity Switches (up to Hunter Norton/Fool's Gold), as well as their connections between the Identity Switch and their normal version, motivations, personalities, backstories, etc... as well as some discussion about the plot of the main story and the Oletus Manor tragedy (including my theory regarding Jose's father's potential involvement in that event).

Regarding the topic of Identity Switches, it'll be easier to answer questions about those as Netease releases more, but for now we just have Novelist/Nightmare, Alice/Memory, Professor/Luchino, Weeping Clown/Joker, and now Norton/Fool's Gold (though we'll likely get Melly's hunter version sooner than later as well).

With Orpheus, we've known for awhile how he's talked about having multiple personalities or whatever, but the form he takes as “Nightmare” isn't real. So far, it doesn't seem like the rest of the Identity Switches (Memory, Luchino, Joker, Fool's Gold) are "real" either, at least in the sense as being those being their appearance in the real world and such.

"Nightmare" seems to have formed as a result of his trauma and the aftereffects of the tragedy that killed the DeRoss couple (Alice's parents) who he was close to.

I think Novelist's S-tier Essence, with Hollow, and that essence's backstory does the best job showing this, especially with Alice as Source of Evil's shock and disbelief that Orpheus as Hollow is the one behind everything she's seeing.

Hollow himself literally states he wants "revenge" during his essence trailer, as well as the rest of his lines during his trailer.

He used to be kind but his heart hardened after what he experienced, and he's no longer as trusting. He also now seems to primarily see the flaws or "sins" first and their good parts second (which i at least personally think is also visible from the way he writes most everyone's 3rd letters, which usually tend to depict the character in a negative light). He wants people to "repent" (with him seeing himself as the person making these "sinful souls" repent).

This idea of him focusing on the evil in people and wanting them to "repent" I think could be reflected in Orpheus aka Nightmare as the manor owner. I think it's best shown in Bane’s letter, where he see themselves helping this happen, but also from those same letters, we eventually see them begin to question Orpheus the same way Source of Evil did.

The best example being Bane in William's 4th letter, where we see his doubt beginning to show due to failing to understand why Orpheus would include an innocent like William in his experiments.

Based on Bane's 4th letter, where Alice talks about Bane missing by the time of the final game, it is possible it is because he begins to doubt that he might've disappeared.

Bane and Burke worked for the DeRoss couple before the tragedy, after which they worked for Orpheus as the new owner. They're people who are close to Orpheus, so if even they are questioning Orpheus' actions, along with Alice at least as Source of Evil, with Alice being Orpheus' childhood friend, that should show just how much he changed.

Sorry it took me so long to reach here, but I think this is what is reflected in Orpheus when he takes the form of Nightmare.

The reason he looks like a bird connects to how birds are stated to be what Orpheus' likes. The gas mask Nightmare wears, which we saw during Time of Reunion, may connect to the drugs Orpheus developed and is using (and how we see him messing with gas in Darkwoods during Time of Reunion).

Nightmare's finger being a pen connects to Orpheus as a writer, a "novelist", while the music notes on his arm can connect to the Nightingale's song and the piccolo we saw being used during Time of Reunion to open the gates of the manor, and how Alice says during Ashes of Memory that the nightingale's song can open all the doors in the manor. We see Orpheus playing the piccolo during Novelist's release trailer too (as well as bandits who come in and kill Alice's parents during the live action trailer for ToR).

Then there's his name, which his rumor seems to explain the meaning of "Perhaps known only to 'Orpheus', this nightmare of his memory".

Finally there's how Nightmare is essentially a raven. This can relate to how the raven is sometimes seen as a bad omen, which fits with Orpheus' change after the tragedy.

So, at least based on Novelist and Nightmare, we can see his Nightmare is a combination of things related to Orpheus himself, his past, but also an emphasis on the... darker side of his personality. Many of the other hunter Identity Switch's we have I think are similar. Their hunter versions seem to put a spotlight on the darker aspects of their character and thus also why I think they tend to be depicted as inhuman, as a way to emphasize how they aren't how they normally are, except these dark parts which are normally hidden internally are now reflected externally in their appearance, and show them as monsters normally or exaggerated versions of their normal selves to mirror their inner darkness, but if that darkness was cranked up to the max.

Joker in a way is similar to Orpheus. Both used to be kind people but changed drastically after going through painful experiences. For Joker, this was the pain and humiliation he was forced to subject himself to day in and day out for the audience's amusement, the pain Sergei caused him, both physical by the acid, and the mental due to Joker's ruined face now preventing him from playing his role in Hullabaloo anymore, not to mention more emotional pain as Sergei was with the girl Joker loved, made more complicated when Joker learned Sergei was abusing her, whatever happiness Joker felt at Margaretha coming to him for comfort because of that abuse, complicated further as it was this event that made Sergei hurt Joker. And even more as Margaretha may not have loved him back, but Joker still cared about her. Put everything together, and it should make it easy to understand why Joker did eventually reach his breaking point, which was the day he killed Sergei, took his face, and then (likely) killed everyone else at Hullabaloo that day, which is the tragedy Mike refers to in his backstory, and is the thing motivating him to go to the manor.

Joker looks the way he does I think at least in part to represent Sergei, or at least maybe how Joker saw Sergei, but also combined with maybe how Joker wishes he was. Compared to Weeping Clown, Joker is much bigger and stronger. But he's also always happy and smiling, which is what Joker wants, what he's been unable to do for so long (just read Joker's deductions, I think it makes this apparent enough).

Moving on to Luchino, I think he's potentially the easiest to understand his Identity Switch/hunter version. His deductions and backstory make his interests clear, as well as how far he'll go for his research. Professor's trailer and backstory tell us in a way he sees his hunter version as "evolution" and stepping over the "last of my boundaries", while his current state (with Professor) is "a small price to pay on the path to truth". His rumor and summaries put best when they basically say Luchino's hunter version an emphasis on his "exploration into forbidden areas" or him going into "territories of taboo".

Maybe Luchino's most recent (4th) letter can give us a bit more insight. It says he is "I've spent my nights suppressing the inhuman desire within me and battling against that 'instinct'". Maybe, compared to his hunter version, this could help show that Luchino's hunter version, like the others, is still an emphasis on a character if they went all the way to the extreme and focusing on their darker traits. Based on his following comment in that letter about "understanding of humans", this could be what his real goal is.

Next I'll mention Alice and Memory. Memory we know is entirely because of Orpheus. It is how he views Alice. Or, to put another, it is what he wants to see. If we go back to Hollow's trailer, he says he wants to "rebuild paradise", which so far I think is the easiest thing to understand regarding what Orpheus is doing and why he has done everything he has.

We know he was torn up by guilt over the tragedy based on Alice's letter to Orpheus in the 2nd anniversary package, where she says "Please don’t blame yourself for father and mother’s death". I think this can even connect to a line by Burke in Bonbon's deductions, where Burke mentions "Since he got back from his 'real' parents, that brat lost various valuable items again... He tried to take full responsibility for it, but such tolerance and protection will only feed their greed".

There’s also how, based on Time of Reunion trailers (live and otherwise), cutscenes, and even Hollow’s essence (S19 E1), at least to me it seems to be implied that it is Orpheus’ fault the bandits got into Oletus Manor to kill Alice’s parents.

The farmer looking people we saw in the portrait during Time of Reunion and during Ashes of Memory when Orpheus is talking about his past may be Orpheus’ “real” parents, the ones Burke mentions during Bonbon’s deductions that Orpheus may be taking valuables from the manor for, which implies Orpheus’ real parents were likely “greedy” people.

During Orpheus’ story in Ashes of Memory, he refers to the man as a “forest ranger” the DeRoss couple hired. This actually can fit with Burke’s deductions, where he talks about the DeRoss couple “bought their own staff” for the manor, after which he says there was “a strange boy in this annoying group”. Orpheus being the son of forest rangers the DeRoss’ hired would explain why he appeared when the DeRoss bought their staff, which could include forest rangers, as we know Bane used to be a forest ranger hired to work on the “hunting grounds of Oletus Manor” (those grounds being the Forest of No Return, as that’s where we can find Bane’s cabin) according to his backstory. Though Bane, unlike Orpheus’ real parents, was loyal to the DeRoss couple.

Orpheus in his story says this forest ranger (likely his real father/parents) “colluded with bandits” (during that scene we see the forest ranger dropping some coins, likely to imply he hired the bandits), the same bandits that killed the DeRoss couple and “ransacked the manor”.

We know from Burke’s and Bonbon’s deductions, as well as from Time of Reunion, that the “key” to get into the manor was a piccolo, likely combined with having to use it to play the nightingale’s song as Alice says during Ashes of Memory.

We see Orpheus playing on this same piccolo in Novelist’s release trailer. We also see the bandits playing on this piccolo during the live action trailer for Time of Reunion. During Ashes of Reunion 2, as Alice is walking through the Muse Corridor, we see the lines “How did they get inside?!”, implying it shouldn’t have normally been possible, likely due to the security we know Burke installed for the manor.

If the piccolo was the key, we know that must be how they got in. How did they get it? Well, we know Orpheus has been taking valuables for his “real parents”. We also know he’s held and used the piccolo before. Maybe Orpheus knew about it from getting close to Burke, who does say right after first mentioning Orpheus in his deductions that the kid “showed great interest in my studio” and “I can always see his clothes or shoes sticking out from the corner”. It’s also possible Orpheus was able to learn about it or get his hands on it due to getting close to the DeRoss couple, especially once Alice was born and he got attached to her.

If Orpheus did help the bandits get into the manor, potentially by giving them the key, that would parallel Hollow’s essence trailer well, as we see in that trailer the young, still innocent Orpheus reaching his hand out to the shipwreck survivors, with the very next scene being these same people attacking the manor.

It would also explain Orpheus’ guilt and why he blames himself for Alice’s parent’s death according to Alice’s letter in the 2nd anniversary package.

Now why do I say all this (besides the fact I think as I talk and couldn’t help going on a tangent as I think about other things)? Orpheus is the one who sees Alice as “Memory”. “Memory” is just as her name says, a memory of the past. Alice looks just like she did back then. Back when things were happy, before their “paradise” was destroyed by the events of the tragedy. Hollow does say he wants to “rebuild paradise”, which reflects his desire to go back, to “look back” if you will just like Orpheus in the actual Greek myth, an action that causes him to break his promise to Hades and thus lose Eurydice.

Orpheus is unable to see Alice as she currently is. He is unable to move forward. He is unable to get past the guilt Alice mentions in her letter to Orpheus. In that same letter, she tries to tell him “You’ve already done everything in your power to save them; my survival is proof of this”. This can connect back to the words we saw in Ashes of Memory 2 when Alice is in the Muse Corridor. We hear someone saying “Take her and run. And don’t turn back”, followed soon after by someone asking for where the kids went (Orpheus and Alice), with the last line we see and hear being Orpheus who says “Don’t be afraid we’ll meet again”. This last line likely is a reference to how Orpheus helped ensure Alice’s survival as she mentions in her letter, potentially him trying to hide her from those looking for them (if they were found, it is possible they would’ve been killed like their parents. Though Burke and Bonbon’s deductions imply they were found, it’s possible timing and exactly who found them was important to ensure their survival).

But based on the first lines in that letter, it seems Alice (in the present, likely during the final game) so far has failed to get Orpheus to stop what he’s currently doing. We know she’s trying to stop him based on the shock and disbelief Source of Evil expresses during her essence to Hollow’s actions, as well as during Novelist’s release trailer as we see a lady holding Memory/Little Girl telling Orpheus to “Stop it! End all this now”.

Orpheus is incapable of stopping himself from focusing on the past, on revenge, on getting back what he once had. His pain and desire is too great, potentially to the point he was willing to use the drugs on himself as Alice in her letter to Orpheus says “regardless of whether you can or cannot remember”. Drugs to help him forget, to ease his pain, but also the same drugs that cause characters to hallucinate seeing others differently, such as seeing Orpheus as Nightmare.

Siren Song is the drug that causes hallucinations. We see Alice, right after she sniffs the bottle, to briefly hallucinate seeing Mary and Nightmare.

I also believe this is the same drug that was used on Jose’s father, Joaquin, and his crew the day they disappeared, depicted in Jose’s 1st letter. They mentioned things that the “cannons couldn’t kill”. The reasons the cannons didn’t kill anything was because the things they saw weren’t real. However, unfortunately for them, their actions still had consequences, which was why their ship likely sunk and why Jose, who waits for his father returns, never sees his father again, and why the Queen assumes Joaquin made off with her treasure and so punishes the Baden family.

(I also still believe in my theory that Jose’s father and crew were the shipwreck survivors depicted in Hollow’s essence in the Season 19 Essence 1 trailer who later may have ended up being at least some of the “bandits” that Orpheus’ real parents “collude” with aka hire or pay off to attack the manor, steal its valuables, and kill many of those inside, including Alice’s parents. We know Jose mentions his father changed course due to a storm in his 3rd deduction, while his 4th and 7th imply the “loss of most of the crew” wasn’t because they were fighting pirates, and instead because “the nightmarish waters had swept them away”. We know from deduction 2 that Joaquin’s change of course took them through an area “not recommended for sailing”. Therefore, the “nightmarish waters” and “loss of the crew” could imply they shipwrecked just like we saw in the Season 18 Essence 3’s (Source of Evil) and Season 19 Essence 1’s (Hollow) trailers. We also can make a good guess the large ship at Lakeside may connect to Jose’s father due to the items on the ship, including a map of the Mediterranean, where we know Joaquin was sent the day he disappeared, a paper with the same symbols as are on White’s compass, a Teru Teru Bozu doll, which is for praying for fine weather and can relate to the “nightmarish water” or the original storm that made Joaquin change course, a picture from Jules Verne’s Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea of a sailor being grabbed by a giant squid, and a nighttime picture that looks very similar to the images from Wu Chang’s backstory trailer. This could imply Jose and his father have been here before, and if his father participated in the attack on Oletus Manor that killed Alice’s parents, that could explain why Jose is so traumatized after they return from this voyage based on Jose’s panic attacks stated to be worsening as well as explain why Jose says in his 7th deduction that the “nightmarish waters” swept away both his “companions” as well as their “conscience”, which implies they did something bad based on the implications from lacking a conscience, especially when we know Joaquin saw this voyage as so important he refused to turn back due to a storm and instead changed course through an area not recommended for sailing. If they did shipwreck, causing them to potentially lose all their cargo, that’d risk Joaquin’s reputation and his desire for fame and fortune. So he would be the type who’d be willing to fall to the lengths of attacking and stealing from a manor to potentially regain what he lost. This would explain why Jose says whatever happened “awakened the demons flowing through the Badens' blood” as well as the Queen’s “wealth” they were said to have “protected” and returned with after the voyage, which is what earned Jose’s father the fame and fortune he always wanted. And again, it would explain some of the other sarcastic lines in Jose’s deductions including “Redemption: A sin the gods can't forgive, but a king can”, which can tie to how Orpheus as Hollow says in the trailer for his essence “Only a sinful soul does as it pleases” and “Revenge! To hell with the gods!”. This idea could also explain why Orpheus in Jose’s 3rd letter calls Jose a “gift” from a “friend who passed away” that Orpheus “treasured” to use in his experiment, so much so he was willing to pause the experiment when it looked like Jose’s mental state was deteriorating too much. The “gift” from the “friend” that “passed away” can be a sarcastic way to refer to Jose’s father.)

Speaking of the drugs that cause hallucinations, I want to go back to Joker. Remember how I said Orpheus is the one who sees Alice as Memory? Well I think it’s possible Margaretha is the one who sees Weeping Clown Joker as Smiley Face Joker. We know drugs weren’t used on Mike, Joker’s 3rd letter implies the same it seems based on “But even without the influence of drugs, Subject 8-0-3's emotions still moved uncontrollably toward the extreme”, for Violetta it was twice said that it “wasn’t the plan to use medicine” on her, and Murro like Mike has “?” for the 2nd spot of his serial number, which usually implies the character didn’t have the drugs used on them. In which case, Margaretha was likely the 1 to hallucinate Joker’s Identity Switch. And it makes sense too as Margaretha knew a lot about Sergei, ran away with him, but also experienced his abuse. We know from Margaretha’s 3rd letter that, due to the drugs, she mistook Joker as Sergei for a time. That could explain Joker having an appearance that may have a resemblance to Sergei. It could also explain why he’s as big as he is. It could be in part tied to her fear of Sergei due to his abuse.

That then leaves us with Norton and Fool’s Gold. We already got a good bit of information about him from his Design Notes video by Netease. His name itself comes from Norton’s 1st letter from Benny, as well as how the “strong contrast between his outer appearance and inner self” fits well with how Fool’s gold aka pyrite looks similar to gold but is actually iron.

After this part is likely the best answer to your question regarding what an Identity Switch is (https://twitter.com/IdentityVJP/status/1723176218563149901):

“IDENTITY characters and their bodies are somewhat similar to the concepts of id and superego. Or, it can be said to be the difference between the perception of other participants in the game and the person's own perception.

As for character design alone, when we select an IDENTITY character, we tend to enlarge his or her most prominent tags.

Norton's most notable tags were hard work, reticence, being weighed down by life, having no choice but to endure, suppressed anger inside, and ambivalence created by ambition and desire.

We showed one side through Survivor Norton and hoped to show another side through 'Fool's Gold.'”.

After this it further explains why he has a stony appearance, which they say involves his occupation as a miner and how he had been “losing his humanity”. This was why they made the hole in his chest, to show the mining accident damaging “more than his body. When he lit the fuse, his morals, social norms, and appearance of good nature were completely shattered”.

As we said, the Identity Switch/hunter versions are essentially an emphasis on their negative traits which are turned up to the max in this version of themselves. Sort of like how a ONCE skin is a what if something about their story changed, Identity Switches/hunter versions are like a what if the worst or extreme parts of a character were cranked up way more than they actually are.

With hunter Norton, going back to his design notes, it describes this version of Norton being someone that was “reborn in the collapsed mine”, while the hole in his chest involves him “no longer needing the lungs that had been in constant pain before, and that he had been given a new lease of life!”

At least for me personally, another visual for this being a version of Norton with his darker traits magnified is how Norton’s usually crooked smile is now instead a full smile. Norton in his survivor version has a crooked smile to emphasize his name as well as his 2 sides, 1 being his “gloomy and depressed” side (the sad Norton desperate to escape poverty and depressed at his inability to do so no matter how hard he works) while the other is his “avaricious” side (the one affected by the “magnets” said to have “disturbed his brain”).

Fool’s Gold having a magnetic pickaxe he can throw and recall, as well as dash towards, is a reference to Norton’s magnets, the ones he made after he took a chunk of the meteorite from Golden Cave after the mine collapse before managing to dig himself out.

Fool’s Gold/Hunter Norton is a version of Norton that has his greed and willingness to do anything to escape poverty turned up to the extreme. This is a version of Norton no longer in pain from black lung, a version no longer letting himself be abused by his coworkers or employers, a version where his darker side won the inner/mental conflict in Norton, which is depicted in his backstory trailer when we see him holding his head in pain and see both survivor Norton and hunter Norton at the same time (to even better show this is a conflict between survivor Norton, aka his better/good side, and his hunter version, aka his worse/bad side).

An even easier visual and proof of this conflict being part of at least normal, survivor Norton comes from Norton’s 2nd letter. The author is Norton, but he’s also talking to himself, trying to convince himself to accept the job and to kill the female he was asked to kill for the monetary reward he was offered. The fact he has to try to convince himself shows Norton needs convinced aka he hasn’t decided completely if he will go through with it or not, or at least he’s having 2nd thoughts, which again also helps to show survivor Norton and hunter Norton are different (that hunter Norton isn’t necessarily the real version, it’s a what if his darker side was magnified).

There is also the chance the eye in Golden Cave is involved in all this. The Famitsu article already suggested the magnets may be messing with his head, magnets made from the meteorite that came from Golden Cave, where the large eye is. We even see similar fiery eyes appearing as effects with hunter Norton’s S-tier Infernal Skin. I do think there’s a chance hunter Norton is a version of Norton controlled or manipulated (more than normal) by whatever the meteorite and the eye in Golden Cave is.

(I have discussed the idea of the Golden Cave eye being Cyaegha before: https://www.tumblr.com/sirenjose/731920677136924672/golden-cave-eye-cyaegha-theory-updated?source=share).

While I’m thinking about it, I do wonder if we can say Orpheus’ and Norton’s Identity Switch’s/hunter versions are different from the others. I say this as Orpheus has already been said to have multiple personalities, while for Norton he’s already been said to have 2 sides and we’ve already seen him arguing with himself in his 2nd letter. In a sense, I wonder if we can say their hunter versions are “real” in a sense, just that the ones we see in game are now actually (externally) visible and magnified more than normal.

Though speaking of the 2 of them, going back to you wondering if it could relate to the Identity Switch being someone more willing to follow the manor owner or supervising the games, we see Norton during Ashes of Memory 2 seemingly working with Norton. This is based on how Alice encountered Hunter Norton while chasing after Orpheus (the black figure she was initially chasing after), then she is knocked out by Orpheus while Alice is running from Hunter Norton, who we know is actually Norton based on his reflection in the puddles. After this, we then see Norton using the Hydra drug on Alice, with Orpheus likely nearby considering we hear him questioning if the drug is working as Norton is giving it to her. Norton is only officially announced to arrive at the manor the day after that scene takes place. The other bit making it pretty evident Norton is likely working with Orpheus is how we see Norton in the secret basement/cellar that no one besides Orpheus (and Alice now due to her investigation, but none of the other participants at least normally are shown to know anything about it) knows about, not to mention how he knows about Orpheus’ drugs that he likely wants to keep secret from everyone, especially the other normal participants, as them knowing would likely ruin his experiments.

So Norton (or the others really) I don’t think was turned into a hunter/got an Identity Switch because of a “punishment”, nor has he done anything I believe to warrant a punishment, especially with him seemingly being someone directly working with the manor owner rather than just 1 more game participant.

The hunter versions for Orpheus, Joker, and Norton seemed to have formed due to pain (especially over a long period of time) and trauma (powerful experiences). Memory is due to Orpheus’ desire to go back to when things were happy. Luchino I’m less confident about, but maybe we’ll get a better idea as we learn more about his game. It’s possible he could be because of his obsession. It could also be because someone hallucinated him that way similar to Margaretha to Joker and Alice to Norton, which is a combination of knowing or being told about the person and seeing them as more extreme than they currently/actually are likely due to fear. So far though, drugs seem to be the main cause, though not all hunters are just hallucinations (like Leo), but it’s hard to say without full confirmation by Netease how much of each hunter is hallucination and how much is real. We can make guesses, like Bane for example seems mostly real, but who knows if they might surprise us and show their real version is a bit more toned down, like they did for Joker and Luchino.

(As for the question about detention, I don’t believe it’s ever explained in detail, so I think it’s fine to imagine or explain it however you may want. My best guess is maybe it can be explained sort of like adrenaline. Kind of like how the last week before a season ends is called Final Push, I think when the last cipher machine is decoded, it’s like the “final push” to the end. For survivors, this is to escape. For hunters, it is to eliminate everyone. Survivors “borrowed time” talent, which is when they heal when the last cipher pops, has the text “To what end will the last gleam of hope lead?”, which connects with this. Hunters’ detention on the other hand has the text “What's the hurry? Stay here forever”, which I think could help back up by guess that survivors may be more “adrenaline”, while for hunters it may be more… something like bloodlust? The desire to eliminate them all before they can escape. If you want to imagine it as a loss of whatever humanity they had, even if temporary, I think that’s fine ^_^; !)

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fractualized · 6 months

Text

Alright. Let's break down this "oh" of an ending. NEGATIVE NANCY, COMING THROUGH

Spoilers, ho!

Ending a story is hard, if they're long or short. Whether you wrap up key threads or leave them open, you want some kind of takeaway that puts a period on things. Even in comics, where we know these characters will go on and on, ideally a story will end in a way that just... fits. Even amateur fic writers have loads of WIPs just sitting there because exactly how to end this damn thing eludes them.

I don't know if Rosenberg had an ending in mind when he started The Man Who Stopped Laughing. I don't know if he decided he'd figure it out by the end of it's year-long run. I don't know if DC Editorial lets people do that; it sounds insane, but if you've been paying attention to their current level of editorial "oversight," which I imagine is supposed to make concurrent titles mesh together reasonably well, I wouldn't be shocked if they let people wing it. Or, more likely, perhaps DC Editorial swooped in and made Rosenberg change the ending he had planned and that's why the result falls flat.

In any case, after 11 issues of enjoying myself, I'm left feeling deflated.

But let's start where #12 does, with the Joker who's been told he's John Keyser, a toxin'd henchmen that the real Joker made into a doppelganger for funsies. He approaches a hotdog vendor.

I'm stuck on "Hello. I've been looking for you"?? I didn't catch that on my first read. Joker has a favorite hotdog vendor? lol

Shut up, Waffles!! All we have is your word for it!!

In any case, hey, Keyser Joker has already been Jokering this long, so yeah, why not keep going? And why not with help from poor woobie Jason, fresh from nearly getting himself killed in Gotham War?

Bruce did not fix Jason at the end of Gotham War, so his adrenaline is still triggering fear in his brain. But Keyser Joker has a solution for that!

It's a tiny dose of Joker toxin to take the edge off of Bruce's programming. Joker makes a point of saying that the effects are only temporary, though. (And like, I assume this is just the quick-fix solution Rosenberg came up with to pull off his own ending when told Bruce's plans for Jason over in the other titles.) Jason is skeptical of this "help," naturally, but Keyser Joker brings up their matching interest: getting rid of the other Joker.

Jason, why you gotta ruin Albert's good time? 🙄

Cut to Red Hood dragging a clown henchman through the streets of Gotham.

But "his" face being blacked out and some of the dialogue clue the reader in: things aren't what they seem.

DERAIL TIME: what is up with this batmobile?

Like from some other angles, it looks sportier, but in most of the panels it looks like an old Buick? lol ANYWAY.

With the flaily way this person jumps off the bike and runs, I was sure that this was Keyser Joker and we might see Batman interact with him. Alas.

It's Ravager, who survived last issue's explosion. She's helping Jason 1) distract Batman and 2) get Albert out of harm's way, far from Keyser Joker's plan.

Naturally Keyser Joker is planning something more destructive than he's led Jason to believe. Also like…

The idea that Keyser Joker really is this John guy, not the real deal, is still not sitting fucking right with me. Seeing him here in another costume, with a goofy death train with mismatched eyes just like his, it feels like a signal that he actually is Joker and Waffles is either lying or mistaken somehow. Like compared to the other Joker, who we haven't seen in a costume? Who left Gotham for weird reasons? I really thought there was going to be a reverse reveal.

And since it doesn't come, I guess it's a good time to mention that! There is no reverse reveal of who the real Joker is. Things get a little muddy later, but…. hrm. HRM.

That said, the other Joker does something pretty dang Jokery: he shows up in a dirigible with his face on it.

Killer Moth and a bunch of clown goons (that aren't supposed to be available because of Gotham War but WHATEVER) attach the dirigible to the train and it's pretty chaotic!

I love when villains are like, "Look I may kill people, but an endangered gorilla?! Get outta here!" 😂

Jason also arrives in style.

I guess he was observing Ravager's distraction?? Which feels like it defeats part of the purpose of having her do the distraction. But then he couldn't have this cool entrance in which he bludgeons people with a motorcycle. Trade offs!

Meanwhile, Real Joker makes it to the front of the train to confront Keyser Joker. One of Real's goons offers to shoot Keyser, but Real Joker wants to make this personal and kills the poor hench so he can do it himself.

Jason coming in like YEEEEEAAAAHHHHH 😎

Then he gets the bad news.

Keyser is as casually suicidal as your average Joker! Also "Real" Joker never acknowledges Red Hood's identity, afaik. It's always Keyser Joker. Details like this got me thinking that reverse reveal was coming, AND YET.

That aside, next comes a fun comedy beat.

Real Joker going right for the hair!

Jason isn't going to let this be the end of it, of course, and once again Killer Moth must suffer at his hands.

Jason shoots so many clowns. Just never the one he wants. 😞

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaait wait wait. You're telling me that Bruce knew about the imminent TWO JOKERS situation. But he decided to prioritize a report of Red Hood dragging a clown through the streets. When in the same breath he's saying there are other people coming to the scene with him, so he obviously could've sent someone else? On the same day Batman #139 is like "oooh Bruce is totally onto Joker now"? This is what you're telling me?? Augh.

Well, we can't rely on Batman right now, clearly, so it's up to Jason.

Meanwhile, Keyser Joker has told the other one that he actually does have a secret way off the runaway train safely. After they fight some more, the tune starts to change.

Alright so, this "deal," which would sort of start them back at square one, doesn't bother me because obviously it's on shaky-ass ground and one of them is definitely killing the other before this issue is over. What does bug me is the "franchising" line, for two reasons:

1) Is this supposed to imply that Real Joker is the one who was behind Joker Incorporated in the Batman Incorporated issues, not a third one?

2) I was just SO SURE it was another indication we were getting a reverse reveal. Joker absolutely does not love the franchising idea. That's kind of been the point of this whole series. The genuine Joker in Keyser Joker's hallucination/memory said that having two Jokers around is stupid. HRRRRMMM.

Anyhow, they leave the train together, though the escape plan is literally just jumping off, which has more issues than they bargained for.

So do you think, assuming the Gotham War writers actually communicated at least a little, that Zdarsky asked Rosenberg what he needed Jason for at the end of TMWSL, and Rosenberg was like, "oh I need him to heroically crash a toxic blimp and almost die?" And then Zdarsky was like, "er, I need him to heroically fly a plane into a magic meteor and almost die?" And then they just shrugged and closed the Zoom?

But yeah, the blimp crashes, and I'm sort of confused because I thought that earlier Bruce was saying that even if the toxin gets into the water, it'll still make it's way to the city. So for one thing, it's still exploding in the air and it's still gonna drift. And the parts that dissolve in water are still gonna drift. There's a part to the equation missing here.

But these two are just thrilled at the excitement.

Until the sudden yet inevitable betrayal.

BUT WHO WAS JOKE

Shortly after this, Ravager shows up with Manhunter, who also survived last issue's explosion. (It just doesn't come up at all. Like it doesn't have to, I guess, but it's just weird that there's not a word or wound about it.) Ravager dives into the water looking for Jason, because she instinctually knows he did something grand and dumb. She finds him among the clown bodies and brings him to shore.

Nothing can kill this man! He came back from the dead with nine lives! And also maybe that Lazarus resin from TFZ is still helping, I dunno.

Elsewhere along the shore, what's left of both Jokers' crews find themselves waiting in the same spot for the Joker they expect to be triumphant.

You know what. I'm soured on Waffles now. Leave him.

And then, from the water…

And that's it. That's how it ends. With a sort of snide cop-out?

Like, it's Joker's POV, so yeah, you could say the dickish tone is just him. But following this story for a year, and then seeing it end with simply the old "you'll never know which Joker prevailed," it doesn't feel clever or whatever this is going for. It just feels obnoxious.

Honestly, it feels like the same takeaway as freaking Three Jokers. 😐 That it doesn't matter who Joker is. All the lead-up to this, where maybe we get a tiny bit of depth and development, even if just in this story, eh. Doesn't matter! We're ending this with blah payoff.

On the other hand, the part of about about there being more questions, about this ending not being tidy, makes me think that this is leaving open the possibility that Keyser Joker actually was the real one. After all, we don't get a flashback to the actual events. The events we see are part of a hallucination, and Keyser never said he had clear memories of being the real or the fake one. He just went from assuming he was the real one to taking Waffles' word for it that he was the henchman.

Also, Keyser Joker was always the Joker giving narration. And the narration boxes for the Final Joker at the end remain in his style. So it seems like we actually have a huge indication of which Joker prevailed-- unless we're meant to assume that if the other Joker prevailed, he merely took over the narration.

I mean, this is what we have. So if I can just choose what I want to believe, I'm going to believe both that Keyser was actually the real guy and that he won. But it puts a real sour taste in my mouth to be super engaged with a story and wanting an ending that says something about Joker's character… and the ending is just that one murders the other and you don't know who, neener neener. It's anticlimactic. It's a predictable direction that I thought SURELY Rosenberg wouldn't go in. It feels like a dick move.

And... what else is there to say? So ends my year of consistently buying a comic, I guess. Nothing else has really grabbed me like TMWSL did, though City of Madness looks promising. After the multiverse and Gotham War stuff, I'm not about to start picking up Zdarsky's Batman. #139 had plenty I should enjoy, but it's soured by Zdarsky deciding to bring a canonical take to the three Jokers concept for some ungodly reason.

A new three Jokers take feels extra stupid after a year of a story about two Jokers. And the second Joker in TMWSL isn't even taken into account in Zdarsky's story. Based off that #135 scene, it really looks like he's going to say that Darwin Halliday accidentally copied TKJ Joker somehow. lmao Why. Why do we have to do this. Why can't this just be one of the things that gets retconned away. I just want my murderclown to be fun.

I need to get back to my list of unread older comics. Or read One Operation Joker! I didn't think I was interested, but I think a random goofy premise is actually just what I need.

#the man who stopped laughing #joker #spoilers #my jibber-jabber #sorry for being a downer

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tumblingxelian · 23 days

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Honest question, what do you think a well-written "Jason lives" story would look like?

Like, if Death in the Family still happened, but Bruce saved Jason before it was too late, then odds are there would still be consequences resulting from how BADLY the Joker brutalized him.

Hmm, OK so with your starting premise and utilizing my knowledge of comics to come but also the fact that if Jason lived then certain ideas and plots would be nixed... While all still colored from my perspective, here is my general take:

So, first, rather than Bruce saving Jason I'd say Jason actually manages to save himself, either because he released his mother or managed to half talk her through disarming the bomb.

I know the original splash page has Bruce pulling him from the rubble but that makes zero sense even by comics standards, he and Sheila should be charred corpses.

So, the bomb is disarmed or they managed to get out cos he released Sheila and Bruce arrives to whisk Jason away to medical treatment with Sheila keeping his head above water.

The exact next sequence is harder to make sense of at first, but here's the thing. The original comic could let Joker get away with learning who Jason was behind the mask because he 'died' soon after and then 'came back'. He also initially mistook Tim for Jason. So, given his state of mind it can be... Tacitly tolerated that he never deduced or used Bruce's identity.

Here, that's a bigger issue and so I will say that to keep the tracks covered as much as they can...

Sheila is kept in custody because while Bruce is furious with her, she did keep Jason alive & separating them seems like a bad idea, though she is to be closely watched by Leslie & Alfred.

Unfortunately, the intel she gave him on Joker's plan was slightly false and she used her time to slip away to go after the clown herself, intent on a redemption arc.

There's messages, misunderstandings, truths revealed and another arrest that doesn't last, before Joker is once again in a helicopter trying to escape but this time with Sheila who shoots him, but he shoots her back as he lays dying and the helicopter crashes.

They cannot find Joker's body but Sheila stayed above long enough to die later, musing on where her life led her, the importance of getting a chance to do something, and that Jason is a real good kid, better than she or Bruce deserve.

This is deeply tragic, mostly conceptually and philosophically, but still.

This is enough to make Bruce sort of ease up on Jason, but at the expense of becoming more overprotective in general. Which is hard to argue with as Jason is doing physical therapy and Dick has a broken leg.

So the drama for the ensuing period is Bruce trying to bench key allies and family ETC, so he can keep them safe while still running himself more ragged, but not quite as terribly as his suicidal spiral in canon.

He also has ideas on sending Jason to a semi boarding school to try and keep him out of super heroics. If he succeeds, this plan will still fail and likely ends up forming the nexus of Jason's own mini team with Eddie and Rose. But also would fail to keep him out of Gotham sufficiently. Still he may be at Brentwood some of the time so one can justify solo Batman stories & some more school time adventures for Jason.

But before all that happens, we have a new player in the field.

The Spoiler!!!

That's right, into the arena is the one, the only Stephanie Brown. She's here to spill the tea and kill her dad, and maybe protect her community on the side.

Best part?

Bruce either does not know who she is at first, or has zero jurisdiction over her and can't gain any without revealing his identity or attacking a teenager for trying to help and she is slippery regardless.

Basically, one of the people who helps crowbar Bruce back into tolerating help is Stephanie basically keeping her original give no fucks about Batman attitude and doing her own thing.

Their relationship is likely a bit contentious and back and forth, far more hands off, not quite mentoring, but also less outright toxic than canon.

She & Jason probably have a thing and bond over some shared and different history stuff, but I don't see it being the mainstay relationship.

Young Justice is likely found eventually under similar circumstances, though Stephanie likely gets to be a member this time, as do Eddie & Rose.

I think the team would be less, Kon, Kid Flash & Robin and more like a cycling mass of active or present members, dealing with an overseer.

Basically a comic series to throw lots of different personalities power sets and problems together and see what dynamics emerge as popular.

After that, less sure.

My ideal is Jason goes to university or maybe has to stay with Young Justice or some other area full time and adopts his own hero persona while Steph gets a run as Robin alongside Cassandra as Batgirl.

Otherwise most major storylines, save one's reliant on Jason being dead, still happen. Steph likely has a less horrible time as Spoiler, but is also maybe always and forever more overtly on the outs so she might not get Robin as she might not want it. (Though maybe during No Man's Land...)

See what I mean about the plot drift?

War Games may still happen but probably with a very different, though not inherently better cos Bruce's plan was dumb, resolution.

Also Joker does return, sadly, and there's always likely a hovering question as to whether he knows the truth of their identities but its never confirmed, or isn't until he dies again.

#Bat Clan #Batfam #Batman #the batman #Bruce Wayne #Jason Todd #robin!jason #Stephanie Brown #the spoiler #robin!steph #Death in the Family

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cuephrase · 1 month

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Of the DC comics you've read so far, what would be your top recommendations for people to check out/what have you enjoyed the most?

when i tell you i have been thinking about this all day- i have been thinking about this. all. day.

so disclaimer, as of writing this, i have only read 31 runs from start to finish and 18 arcs/events outside of those runs. on top of, everything i've read so far has been strictly robin-centric, so dick, jason, tim, and damian. (i have read all of steph's robin appearances lol, but i haven't gotten to reading material for her, like say batgirl 2009, yet.) i've also decided not to rec from any run i'm currently reading, so for example, you won't see any batman: gotham knights recs here. because i'm most well-read on the robins, i'm only going to rec for them.

also, i'm going to operate under the following assumption: you've got a basic knowledge of the robins. none of these are where i would necessarily recommend anyone start reading about the boys, but i do think they'd be pretty interesting if you're already somewhat familiar with them and don't want to commit to reading whole character backlogs. does that make sense? i hope that makes sense.

alright, let's do this!

DICK GRAYSON

oh god. this one is actually so hard because he has so much great stuff, but then also i have like a love/frustrate relationship with so much of it. like for instance, i really enjoyed The New Teen Titans, but also lowkey can't stand space adventures so whenever that went down i was like 😀👍. but okay. hmmmm.

i have two preboot recs, with explanations + caveats.

devin grayson's mob!dick arc, so Nightwing 1996 #99-100, 107-117. caveats: it doesn't really get to finish playing out/wraps up weird because of editorial changes/infinite crisis. but!! it's a super interesting look at how dick handles...failure. how he values himself in light of that failure.

tomasi's run, but specifically #147-153. (listen, i love the dick and tim moments in 'freefall' but the whole eternally pregnant lady thing was too weird.) this is classic, hyper-competent dick, okay? he's such a bad-ass. and an idiot- bro literally flops his severely injured ass over the bars of his glider and rides it UNCONSCIOUS back to the batcave. i can't with him. poor alfred. anyways, he deals with two-face, always a good time. and then at the end, as a treat, he cries because bruce is dead. so fun!! what was my caveat here? oh yeah, he has a girlfriend. i don't remember her name, she serves like...very little purpose, the whole relationship is very minor/background okay, but like it was so unnecessary. he can be single, dc, it's okay.

for post re-boot, just read tom taylor's run!! it's the best thing ever!! zero complaints!!

HA. yeah, just kidding. that run is very like/frustrate for me lol. oh man i'm struggling here. it's not all bad okay, i'm just really picky, and i haven't re-read any nightwing n52 and onwards since my first foray into comics (8 months ago) so my memories of these are the foggiest and i'm not sure how i feel about all of it in light of what i've read now. yk what, i'm just going to...not rec anything. sorry!!

JASON TODD

his comics either go so hard or they're absolute ass, why is there no in between. istg, i can't figure out why writers struggle with him so much?? well. i mean, i do have theories. but you didn't ask for those!

pre-boot:

detective comics #569-574. robin!jason in the hands of writers who like him is so much fun. which, don't get me wrong, i don't flat-out hate how starlin writes him, but i think you get a more well-rounded view of jason as robin when you also see him in 'tec. jason and bruce tangle with the joker, scarecrow, + mad hatter, and all of those adventures are...idk if they were intentional foreshadowing okay, but reading those and knowing where the story goes? oof. especialllllly #574. caveat: #572 is pretty light on jason, but he is great when he's on panel!

reboot:

probably a very basic answer but rhato rebirth (2016) #1-13, annual #1. i abhorred n52 rhato so i almost skipped rhato rebirth since it was still written by lobdell, but i'm really glad i didn't. i really enjoy jason's relationship with bizarro + artemis, but especially with bizarro because i think jason struggles a lot with feeling like a doomed creation, so yk, parallels. i want to say more but i know i'll get too wrapped up in discussing jason so i'm just going to stop myself.

i actually really enjoyed task force z, too. i think about tfz #8 so much, jason is such a manipulative little shit and i love it. he's so- i can't. i can't get into this rn, it deserves its own post(s).

overall for jay, i need people to read something other than utrh/lost days/b:ul 1-6. i love those, i do, but they aren't the only good pieces of jason content!!

TIM DRAKE

MY BELOVED!!!!!!!!!! in my heart of hearts, i just want to rec his whole robin run lmao. dick was my intro, okay, he is why i decided to start reading comics, but tim, specifically his robin solo is why i'm still reading comics. hooked me fr. and young justice 1998, ugh love. but it has been a minute since i read these as well, so hmm. okay okay okay

pre-boot:

batman: prodigal. short version, tim is robin to dick's batman. super fun. there's a solid amount of dick and bruce angsting too, which, love. tim is honestly just thrilled that jpv is out of the batsuit and even happier to working with dick. very cute.

robin #46. listen. they're all superheroes okay, they all feel pressure to save people. but tim...losses get to him. the amount of times that he gets shoved to a breaking point and then...gets back up. keeps going. *screams*. anyways!! this is not tim getting back up, okay? this is him being shoved way, way down. it's so good.

teen titans 2003 #20. tim's dad has died. he shows up for his weekend at the tower anyways. he is not okay. that's it, that's the pitch. i did not like...mmm at least 80% of this run okay, but a few of the issues HIT and this was one imo.

reboot:

*deep sigh*. look. tim is not tim for like basically all of n52, although there are moments here and there were he feels like himself. i did not like his 2023 solo, the best parts of young justice 2019 imo are the character designs, (except for his drake costume, what was that omg), and i haven't read any rebirth batman/'tec yet. except for zdarsky's run. which. tim is good there! but yeah, not really a whole lot of material to work with + very limited reading experience atm.

DAMIAN WAYNE

god, i love this kid. nature vs. nurture fascinates me, and so much of his story digs into that on top of trying to figure out who he is apart from all of that. i will say, i'm not a huge talia fan and by that i mean, i have no idea who she is "supposed" to be, like i have no frame of reference for that atm, so if you are a huge talia fan these recs might not hit for you because from what i've observed from her fans she is not well portrayed a whole lot since becoming his mother? i think one of the things that is normal is dick absolutely disliking her though, which cracks me up. there's this older batman story (batman #322-335) where bruce works with talia and dick goes running to selina and i was so entertained. what were we talking about? oh! damian!

preboot:

batman and robin 2009 #10-12. damian is struggling, with a lot of things. the fact that bruce might be alive, what that means for him and dick, and his mother's puppeteering. there's this line that kills me: "can't you just love me for who i am? not what you want me to be?" and the thing that gets me, is the use of who vs. what. because he could have said, "not who you want me to be", but he doesn't

reboot:

batman: shadow war. this is post-alfred's death, and honestly, most damian stuff post city of bane is pretty juicy, but there's this specific moment in shadow war: alpha #1 that had me speechless. just like 😧 i love bruce, but that man has some of the most chronic foot-in-mouth disease. oh but fair warning, for whatever reason they don't draw dami's mask connecting?? it's so- it drives me nuts.

JUST FOR FUN

these are just two issues that i enjoy for the brother content!

nightwing 1996 #25. dick and tim's relationship makes me ILL. *ahem*. this issue is mostly just super cute and fun, (there's like 0.2 seconds of angst when tim asks dick if he ever thinks about jason 😭) and i adore it sm. fun fact, it's actually one of the first comics i ever bought!

batman 2016 #16. unfortunately, tim is not here for this, but duke is! jason and damian's interactions in the background of bruce's Very Serious Speech are excellent. bruce is so dramatic and his kids are so unserious.

what i've most enjoyed

i've enjoyed the majority of what i've read, even titles/events i wasn't particularly looking forward to but had on my tbr for whichever character. i'm going to break down most enjoyed into two catergories, arcs that i loved top to bottom and then the guilty pleasures. this is not an exhaustive list, just what immediately came to mind.

top to bottom

bruce wayne: murderer?/fugitive. shocker, ik. but it's just, it's just so frickin good. i've said before, and i'll say it again, gotham war could NEVER. this right here is peak batfamily drama. the tension? the mystery? the angst? i knew nothing going into this okay, and truth be told, when i started it i was like "oh joy. another event." because i was just trying to read the 1996 nightwing run, but i'd committed to reading in full all the events it crossed over with. but i was invested so quickly. and like, i loved how the narrative supported the possibility that bruce was the murderer, because like, you know there's no way, but the more that comes out the more damning it is, and so you're like really dying to know what actually happened and i feel like the reveal was satisfying.

batman: city of bane. i'm going to cautiously put this here, because there might have been something i didn't like but i cannot recall it for the life of me right now. something about me is i love when the heroes lose. infinity war, empire strikes back? love. and ik bruce takes back gotham, but they lose alfred, okay, they lost. i also didn't expect to like this arc, i decided to read it because i wanted to know how alfred died. and first of all, i was shocked, even though i knew it was coming because i expected it to like happen towards the end. but nope. just *snap*. and then later when bruce is back in the manor and is confronted with alfred's body and his good-bye message? oh. my. god. i was bawling. despite my penchant for sad narratives, i don't tend to cry that much, but this got to me so bad. like i had to pause because i couldn't see. amazing.

red robin. his cowl is so ugly, but i really do love the run. i see a lot of discourse about it and also a lot of...interesting fanfic takes, so i don't really talk about it a lot here because it feels like most people are kind of tired of hearing about this run, which fair. i really enjoyed it as a sequel to his solo robin run. tbh, i almost put this in the guilty pleasure catergory, because there are a couple things i don't totally love, but like if the others are 10/10, this is 9/10.

young justice 1998. i love this comic so, so much. i don't even know what to say, i get so overwhelmed with joy when i think about this comic. nothing has hit the same way with this group since either, which is a crime. i need a title with this team so badly.

guilty pleasures

these are all runs/events i know some/most? people cannot stand and i totally get why, and i have problems with them, so i'm probably never going to rec them in good conscience but also like i can't lie and say i don't like them. these are not recs, okay? okay.

robin war. is it a hot mess? yes. but there is not a whole lot of canon content out there with all the boys working together, okay? so much of that event had me banging my head into a wall, but for me, there were a handful of pearls in there. i mean honestly, if i listed out pros and cons the cons list would be way longer but those pros are very precious to me.

batman and robin: eternal. very similar reasoning overall to robin war. plus cass finally came back!! i missed her. i love robin!dick and batman content, and the kids working together. this is probably my least favorite guilty pleasure though, okay, it's on thin ice.

grayson. listen, i love janin's art sm. i'm pretty neutral about spy stuff, so like i don't engage with it a whole lot. meaning, although i've heard it's tropey af in regards to the genre, i'm not familiar enough with the genre to be like trying to dig my eyeballs out with blunt spoons at the cliche of it all. the constant sexualization of dick got old super fast, and her name may have been helena but she wasn't- my list of dislikes is lengthy. but idk, i had fun with it. and imo it does have some genuinely great moments, i love dick in the desert with the baby, the ache i felt when dick wanted to come home and couldn't get ahold of bruce, issue #12 stabs me in the heart- the dick and dami reunion? stoppppp. i feel like this run and the ric grayson era are dick's most out there lmao

so yeah!! thank you so much for this ask, i had sm fun answering it. if you have any recs for me, feel free to drop them :)

#dick grayson #jason todd #tim drake #damian wayne #nightwing #red hood #red robin #robin #dc comics #i almost included a fave panel from each rec but i didn't want the post to be even longer #cue answers #anon asks

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lazycats-stuff · 1 year

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Jason Todd x male!reader

REQUEST: Ya it has to do with Jason Todd x Joker's son meeting in a club and alcohol heats things up between the two, maybe they had feeling for the other but ignored it? Also, PART 2 is here

This request was made by xweirdo101x, one of my followers. Thanks for the idea and let me know if this is okay. I may or may have not taken this in another direction...

The club was loud, packed with young people who were either dancing or drinking until the point of passing out. Jason simply sat at the bar, drinking his drink and enjoying the distance from the wasted crowd on the dance floor.

Not even Jason knew why he was here. It was spontaneous, seemingly out of nowhere. He didn't have anything to do tonight in regards to patrol. He didn't have any criminals to take down tonight. But he was slightly restless, so what better way to make that restlessness than going to the club?

It was little over midnight and Jason still wasn't able to get rid of that restlessness. He sighed and took a long sip of his drink. The alcohol burned, but it went down smoothly. He licked his lips and glanced around the club, a habit he couldn't get rid off. Although, a good habit and necessary for his... Profession, a term he always used loosely. There was no profession like his family's.

His head throbbed from the vibrations and now he wondered why he even came here. Upscale and posh clubs are not his favorites. So what drew him here? Who knows... And he maybe needs a night off...

He took another sip of his drink, finishing it. He called a bartender over, asking for a refill. The bartender nodded and started working on a refill. Jason took another glance at the crowd, eyes widening slightly once he saw a face he never thought he would see here. It was (Y/N), Joker's son.

He still remembers the shock he had when he found out. And Bruce was caught completely off guard too, he looked like he was going to have a stroke. That was the first time he saw Bruce drink. They did more research on (Y/N) and it turned out that he had nothing to do with Joker and it seemed like Joker knew nothing about (Y/N).

Jason checked him out. His (H/C) hair, his (E/C) eyes that shone differently underneath the club lights... And his body was just- Jason sighed and took a sip. No. That is the son of the man who tortured him, broke him... He can't think that way about him. Innocent or not, involved or not, he shouldn't think so about (Y/N).

He looked up to the ceiling for a moment, hoping for a sign. And sign came. The sign was (Y/N). He sat down next to Jason, completely unaware of Jason chaotic train of thoughts. What did fate have in store for him tonight?

He looked at (Y/N) from the corner of his eye. The photo that they found while investigating doesn't do him any justice. It should be a crime to be this pretty.

Jason blinked a few times. What the hell did he drink? How strong was this alcohol that it made him think that way? He looked down at the bottom of his glass, looking through the liquid.

You know what, what the hell. If something happens, then so be it. Another sip to ease his nerves.

" You come here often? " Jason asked the man next to him.

(Y/N) chuckled in response, turning to look at Jason.

" Really? "

" What? " Jason feigned innocence. " It's a classic one. You can't go wrong with a classic. "

" You are right, but the amount of times I heard that line is astounding. If I had a penny for every time I heard that, I would be filthy rich. " (Y/N) joked, taking a sip of his drink.

" Well, I was going to offer you a drink, but I don't even know your name. " Jason said, tilting his head.

" (Y/N). And you? "

" Jason. " He answered, calling a bartender over to order a drink. Jason order, guessing by the drink that (Y/N) had ordered before.

" So Jason, what brings you here tonight? I just can't see you as a guy who goes to clubs. " (Y/N) asked him, leaning back into the bar chair.

" And you are right. I felt... Restless tonight. " Jason trailed off, taking his glass, never taking his eyes of off (Y/N).

" And you? " Jason questioned (Y/N) now.

" I think I needed a night off, just to let loose and have fun. I had a stressful week at work. "

Jason hummed, nodding and then took a sip of his drink. He knows (Y/N) worked in a big company. It made him feel weird, knowing so much about (Y/N) and yet he doesn't. He felt like he was on a mission, like he had to take him down. He didn't like it. Forget don't like, he hated it.

" Can I ask where you work? Or is that considered creepy? " Jason asked, smirking a little.

" A shipping company. It's boring, but it pays well. You? "

Jason nodded. What was he going to say? I am Red Hood, a masked guy who runs around and beats criminals? Yeah, not happening.

" I work in security. "

" Would you believe me if I thought that you worked in that line of work. " (Y/N) said chuckling.

" Is it the muscles? " Jason joked, taking a sip.

" Well, yes and no. Yes, you need to be strong and in shape to work in a security, but the no part was from your gaze. You looked like you were... How to put it... It looked like you were on guard, like you can't really relax. "

Jason stared at (Y/N), tilting his head. (Y/N) was right. No matter where he is, he can't relax. He is always on guard. Curtesy of Batman and his training.

" How about we go dance? " Jason asked (Y/N), desperate to change the subject.

" Sure. "

They stood up, moving to the dance floor. The DJ has put on something heavy and sexy. (Y/N)'s back was on Jason's front, with Jason putting his arm around his waist. They grounded against each other. (Y/N) truly let loose, grinding against Jason's front. And Jason... Maybe he has to let loose to... Maybe he needs to learn how to let his guard down for a moment, just for a moment to enjoy life.

Just maybe...

Jason allowed his hands to wander down (Y/N)'s body, moving with the rhythm and the beat of the music. They danced like that, not caring for anything in the world. Jason closed his eyes, feeling the beat and (Y/N)'s body shape. Maybe it was the alcohol, but maybe it was the atmosphere and maybe it was (Y/N)...

Either way, he is going to let loose. Truly let loose.

(Y/N) turned around in Jason's arms, wrapping his arms around his neck. He was smaller then Jason, almost by a head. Jason kept his arms around (Y/N).

The smaller male stood up on his toes, almost wanting to kiss Jason. Jason thought for a moment, before saying fuck it to himself. He leaned down, capturing (Y/N)'s lips. They were soft and he pushed his tongue into (Y/N)'s mouth. (Y/N) was compliant, allowing Jason to take the lead.

Jason didn't expect to find himself kissing the Joker's son. Far from it. He should have stopped when he asked to dance. He really should have.

He moved from (Y/N)'s lips as if they burned him. No, he can't do this. This is a mistake, probably the biggest one of his life.

" I can't do this, I can't... " Jason said to himself, turning from (Y/N) and essentially running from the club, not breathing until he was far enough from the club. What in the actual hell?

What the fuck?

He rubbed his face and sighed. What did he do to himself? No, WHY did he do this to himself? Why? He needs to get home, he needs to get to the the apartment and just... Forget about (Y/N). He truly needs to do that.

Maybe even go on patrol...

Jason shook his head as he walked back home. It was dark, the only light being the street lights. If only he could hide in that darkness, away from this situation. If only.

#jason todd x male reader #dc x male reader #dc comics

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goldenbloodytears · 28 days

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Do u think Danny would be okay with having his SO be his partner in crime. I feel like it really depends but I think he would be open to it as long as like he was still the one calling the shots you get me? Been thinking about this one all day 😭

An ask in my ask box! Oh boy! Thanks Anon :) So this is actually a concept I've been toying with for a while in relation to the magnum opus fanfic I've had brewing in my head for five years. Gonna put a read more since this got long thanks to my rambling; warning for brief mention of partner murder.

Edit: changed some wording for clarity.

I don't think he would react well to an SO knowing his secret in a regular situation unless he was dead certain this person isn't going to betray him. So, obviously, becoming his partner in crime is going to involve blackmail. If his SO accidentally or purposefully kills somebody? Does some other crime or horrible thing they don't want revealed? That's going to be used. I think there's also just the inherent threat of personal harm... But I don't see him doing that unless pushed into the situation--I think if something did result in the death of the SO he would be sad about it... like very angry sad. Look what you made me do kinda. Like somebody just took a toy away from him. I don't really subscribe to yandere style headcanons for him personally, but I definitely think he is possessive.

Anyways back to my point... I think Danny would enjoy having somebody know. I think it must be lonely and a little isolating the way he lives... and humans are social creatures.

I think when it comes to his SO acting as a partner in crime, doing murders... my personal headcanon on the matter is he's... rather into it? I don't think he would go out of his way to influence somebody into murder/violence (what is he? his old man? lol) but I think there's a kind of... appreciation for a display of strength like that. Even if it was an accident. He's gonna clean the blood of them and it's the most sensual experience he's ever had--his head is gonna SPIN! I actually think he would be completely caught by surprise, like discovering a kink you didn't know you had (I mean that's exactly what it is, let's be real) He's been formed into this person to be okay with violence and it's not something he really gets to share/experience with people. He's not a veteran so he can't share "war stories" of his experiences, the closest he would get to this kind of thing for the average person is maybe hunting... but there's a keen difference in hunting a human than, say, a deer? I think having an SO as a partner in crime would be... like toxic good for him... I'm assuming the SO is a willing partner in crime. I can see him really enjoying somebody gassing up his ego (totally tempted to make a Harley/Joker comparison here). HOWEVER, I do think he would be an absolute pain in the ass about his works, his stories... I don't see him sharing Ghost Face with somebody, so it would be convincing him to either change gears to something else, or putting up with that.

One change I could see happening is having the SO, if they have writing chops or come from a journalism background, taking over the paper-writing/reporting aspect. The original background in-game (not the tome) mentions that some of the articles he's kept were not written by him, so as much as I feel like this is still an imperative part of his modus operandi, it's clear he still takes a nice fat dopamine hit for the sake of his ego from other people writing about him too... and therefore I could see him being flexible with it, because if the SO is his partner in crime, he can still influence what they write--he just doesn't have to work double shifts anymore LOL

Is it too cracked up to make a joke about Danny and his partner-in-crime SO getting a house in some random town and posing as a totally normal man and his spouse by day but then murdering people by night? IDK you decide. I'm kinda just picturing that one song by the Mountain Goats.

#danny johnson #dbd ghostface #dead by daylight #ghostface #danny jed olsen johnson #headcanons #ghostface x reader #ghostface x oc #ghostface x you #partners in crime AU

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that-ari-blogger · 2 months

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Witch Side Are They On? (Young Blood, Old Souls)

Hero and villain are nebulous terms, the definitions of which can be taken to mean literally any character. Although, almost everyone knows one when they see one. It's a vibes based classification. Nobody is trying to argue that The Joker is a paragon hero (except some people), for example.

Certain characters break from the mould, with some protagonists displaying more morally challenged motivations or methods, some villains being redeemed, and some "morally grey" heroes ending up being written as power fantasies and you can usually tell when that happens.

I find the classification of characters rather redundant, as people have a habit of being complex. Sure, I have met people who fit stereotypes to a tea, but they are the exception not the rule, and the more you get to know someone, the less tropey they seem to you.

So, instead, I would like to examine the actions that The Owl House frames as evil, as well as the point at which the series decides a character is no longer redeemable.

Let me explain.

SPOILERS AHEAD: (The Owl House)

Because good and bad are subjective, and this is the internet, I am going to define heroic and villainous actions in this context as "behaviours that The Owl House presents as desirable and undesirable" respectively. Knowledge, expression and kindness are heroic in this context, and willful ignorance, cruelty, and repression are villainous. Ok?

These themes are really well emphasised by the light and dark motif going on. Luz's name literally means light, and she is very much associated with that concept through her magic.

Compare that to Belos, who has managed to spend the entirety of the series up to this point either in literal shadows or figurative ones. We haven't seen him outside in the daylight; we haven't even seen what he looks like yet. The man exists in darkness.

What I mean by this, is light reveals, shadows conceal. A light can bring hope, show you the way out, or let you glimpse the beauty of an artwork, if someone keeps you in darkness, your eyes will adjust eventually, but you won't be seeing the full thing.

Now, here's a question: what exactly is Lilith's motivation? The flashback gives her a history, and shows her actions and sacrifices, but it doesn't redeem her by any stretch of the imagination.

Lilith made a sacrifice for power. She has been chasing Eda because of Belos, and we will get to that. But the curse was her own misdeed, and I think its fascinating how the concept of willful ignorance plays into that.

"I thought it would just be for a day."

Now, I don't know what was on that scroll. Maybe it came with a sticky note that says, "guaranteed 24-hour magic removal or your money back". But, it takes some serious mental gymnastics to decide that the thing you wanted to do because you wanted to do it with someone was worth sacrificing that someone to achieve.

And when the curse turned Eda into the beast, it never occurred to Lilith to tell anyone. I think providing evidence of the magic that caused it might have helped to fix it, but Lilith kept it a secret.

Also, if you see a system that outcasts your closest family member and TURNS PEOPLE IT DOESN'T LIKE TO STONE, and you devote yourself to upholding that system "because of all the good it does", you are deliberately ignoring some major factors.

So, Lilith engages with the theme on two fronts, she keeps the world in the dark about her own actions, and she actively ignores things about the world she is in, and that is the key here. Lilith is presented as highly intelligent and rational, but someone the clever should surely notice some things that she very much doesn't. Which leads me to believe that she is either unintelligent and rational, or intelligent and irrational.

I don't think Lilith is a villain in the series, entirely. I think she is an antagonist, and thematically opposed to the heroes. But the motivation for the specific acts of antagonism are, fundamentally, altruistic. She wants to heal her sister. The problem is that being motivated by guilt and compassion doesn't square with the actions she has taken to get to this position. So naturally, she ignores the incongruities until she runs face first into them, and her redemption comes later through her actions and decisions to seek out and understand.

Belos plays an interesting role in this as well. I mentioned in my previous post that Belos manipulates her agency out from underneath her, and I stand by that here for two reasons. 1) Belos is the system she has bought into. He has directly and intentionally, through propaganda, convinced a world that wild magic is bad and that sacrifices must be made. 2) He found a woman who was conflicted about her actions and saw a way to get rid of the most powerful witch in the boiling isles.

So, Belos too features the theme of wilful ignorance, imposing it on the boiling isles, and making use of Lilith's blind spot to further his own goals.

I've mentioned Belos' restriction of expression in the past multiple times, but there is one more of the core themes that the emperor engages with, and I think the way in which he does that is rather funny. Belos is cruel, and it is constantly tripping him up.

So, what spur's Lilith's redemption? She gets shown her actions are wrong immediately after performing them, so it can't be realisation. So, what is it that prompts her to reconsider her life choices? What causes the leader of the coven heads to bail? Lilith backs out of the coven system because Belos is a jerk.

Belos could have kept the manipulation going. He could have said that he tried and failed to heal Eda's curse. He could have said that Eda attacked him and left him no choice. But instead, he decided to gloat.

"Ah, taking her to the healing ceremony?" "I will not be healing her." "But, you, promised me." "Don't be so naïve, Lilith."

This isn't even the only time the man's desire to gloat self-sabotages him in this episode. So, let's get to that fight scene.

"Okay, I'll play."

I feel the need to point out that Belos wins the fight part of this scene hands down. I recommend UnholyBasil's excellent video on this scene, but suffice to say, anyone with the power to instantly quadruple the animation budget for a moment is a terrifying threat, and Belos is definitely that.

Up until now, the emperor was just an ideological roadblock. The antagonist has been the coven system and the Emperor's Coven that want to restrict magic. Belos has simply been the guy at the head, the one Luz must symbolically defeat.

But now, Belos barely has to lift a finger, and Luz is on the back foot. She can't even touch him. And that is the key to why the ending of the fight is so cool. Belos is untouchable, emotionally and physically, so Luz does both. She puts a crack in his armour, not enough to defeat him, but enough to break the facade he has put up and make him look like an Undertale character.

Remember what I said about self-sabotage? Well, it happens again here. Here is someone who is trying to kill Belos, someone with magic that he has seen. And he decides to waltz up to her and present his face as a target, just because he wants to needle at her mind, the man would have succeeded had he been intelligent.

That is my takeaway from Belos. He is an eejit with delusions of grandeur. Don't get me wrong, the man is a decent manipulator, but his inability to look past himself and his need to be cruel repeatedly puts a dampener on his whole mastermind shtick.

Also, he didn't think to check for the obvious glyphs on the side of the suitcase he was given, he just assumed he had won and didn't feel the need to make sure. Are we sure this guy is clever and not just charismatic?

Now, I haven't talked about Luz or Eda much, and I think it's time to rectify that.

Lilith's character design is a mirror of her sister's. She is restricted in her dress, and perfectly symmetrical. Eda meanwhile is unkempt and wild, with the torn outfit making her look unbalanced and volatile.

The Clawthorn sisters also have a Red Oni, Blue Oni motif going on between them, a trope about characters with a duality to them that has shades of colour symbolism and mythology thrown in for spice.

According to TV Tropes:

"The Red Oni is associated with passion, wildness, and defiance. The red oni character is often more brawny than brainy, extroverted, enthusiastic, determined, and filled with a zest for life. They are also much more likely to break conventions and rules than their counterpart."

Meanwhile:

"The Blue Oni is associated with serenity, control, and observing authority. A Blue Oni is more intellectual, proud, traditional, introverted, and cultured."

I those two don't sum up Eda and Lilith respectively, I don't know what does. And if you have been paying attention, the colour symbolism there appears in the designs of the two. Lilith bears more cool colours, with the blueish hair, eyes, and gem, while Eda scraps all subtlety and just wears red and orange.

So, Eda and Lilith represent two ends of the spectrum, chaotic and lawful. But its notable that when Lilith gets redeemed, she doesn't lose the logical, heavily rationalised mindset, she loses the restrictions. She ends up being free to be whomever she wants, and that person doesn't have to be as overtly wild as her sister.

Luz and Belos, however, are extremely similar characters, with one Luz and Belos, however, are extremely similar characters, with one main difference. One is kind, one is cruel. In terms of character mechanics (how they approach problems), that is the main difference. The rest of their actions come as a result of this dichotomy. Both have a form of main character syndrome, for example, but where Luz wants an adventure and to save the world, Belos wants to remake the world in his own image.

I'm not saying they are identical, or that they are the same character, I am saying that they are similar except for the most fundamental of points, derived from this difference of kindness vs cruelty. All of the lessons that Luz learns but Belos ignores, come from selflessness, all the differences come from expanding out this over and over again until you get a hero and a megalomaniac.

They are both charisma-based artificers, but they have different alignments, and that has led to them making different choices, and leading different stories that have clashed with each other. They started in a similar place, but because of the one difference, their paths diverged wildly.

Final Thoughts

Belos is a villain who would be right at home with Wiley Coyote if he wasn't so terrifying and megalomaniacal, because he cannot stop bringing about his own downfall in spectacular fashion.

I wanted to find the Tolkien quote about evil destroying itself for this post, but instead I found something that sums up The Owl House really well.

"You have to understand the good in things, to detect the real evil."

Tolkien was a man who fought in both the first and second World Wars, including the battle of the Somme, and yet he was a profoundly optimistic man, as well as being a realist. His most famous work is about someone small accomplishing a great thing against all the odds because evil cannot comprehend the simple acts of kindness.

That, transformed by generations of nerds, has resulted in The Owl House, where a villain, by dint of being clad in gold, can only shine by reflecting the light of the protagonist. And he cannot comprehend the simple kindness of community, and harmony.

Light, do not faulter.

Next week, I am diving straight into the next season, with Separate Tides, and the introduction of the woobie, so stick around if that interests you.

Previous - Next

#rants #literary analysis #literature analysis #character analysis #what's so special about...?#the owl house #toh #toh belos #the owl house belos #emperor belos #the owl house lilith #lilith clawthorne #toh lilith #young blood old souls

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distort-opia · 1 year

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I always wonder how does joker manage to hold up in a fight with batman, hes usually depicted as a lanky guy, so how does he hold up going against the super buff tall man that bruce is?

That's an excellent question, and one comics have never been very keen on answering. Joker's fighting prowess tends to be what the plot needs it to be, but overall he's indeed been shown as capable of holding his own against Batman... when he actually puts his mind to it. Most of the time he enjoys getting the crap beaten out of him, so there's plenty of instances where Joker doesn't look like a challenging opponent. However, Joker's fought more people than just Batman, and he's been shown to be a good fighter.

With Joker's backstory and past being a mystery for so long, it's tough to say how exactly he came to be a skilled fighter. Now that the The Killing Joke backstory is canon (as per Flashpoint Beyond), one wonders how the broke comedian ended up being able to eventually last against Batman in a fight. My theory on this is rooted in my personal timeline of Joker's past, which is an amalgamation of multiple comics that have dealt with his origin stories. People tend to think "well, if TKJ is canon, then Zero Year or Streets of Gotham can't be true", but I believe all these stories do ultimately fit together. I've got a bigger meta post on the subject of Joker's past here, but the bottom line is-- there's canon support for Joker having lived on the streets and (unwillingly, and then possibly willingly) being part of the mob. After being placed in the foster care system, it's likely he continued being active in gangs and engaged in other criminal activities like robberies.

So, I think Joker learned how to fight in his youth out of necessity. After running away from home, he grew up in a very hostile environment. It wasn't something nearly as structured as Bruce's years of traveling and training with various masters; most likely, Joker had to learn how to fight in order to survive and protect himself. Although it's possible he did have some kind of training, if he grew up in such close proximity to gangs. Maybe that's how he got so good with knives.

It thus makes sense that Joker had a decent fighting background to begin with, and as the years went by he got better and better. I haven't gotten around to making a second part to the meta about Joker's past (yet), but what follows is that, after being placed in foster care, Joker eventually tried to have a normal life. He finished highschool, he went to university and graduated, then got a job at ACE Chemicals. He married Jeannie... and then everything went to shit again. To be honest, I like this because it makes a lot of narrative sense, and tragically so. Unlike Bruce, Joker never had a normal life, or a normal family. He started out as the opposite to Batman, once again-- in poverty, with an abusive and hateful family that he either killed or ran away from. So eventually he tried to have a family of his own. He tried to be happy and stay away from crime, but following his dreams was impossible without money and resources, so he went back to it... and then Jeannie and his unborn child died. No wonder he broke. And after falling into the acid vat and becoming Joker, he also gained what's undoubtedly a very high pain tolerance, and some kind of metahuman durability (because he's survived so many lethal situations it's ridiculous, at this point).

So! If you combine masochism, high pain tolerance, a street fighting background and a complete lack of fear, you get Joker's hand-to-hand combat style. He's got this advantage over his opponents as well; he doesn't get scared, and pain doesn't stop him the way it would most people. He's thus very unpredictable.

It has to be said though, that Joker doesn't like getting his own hands dirty. He has goons, people that do the hard work for him, sidekicks. He uses laughing gas, acid sprays, hand buzzers, he uses guns and other long-distance weaponry a lot. As a character, Joker was never meant to be a match for Batman's bulk and fighting prowess-- the point is exactly that he isn't, and yet still manages to win. At his core, Joker is more of a mastermind, a brilliant manipulator with heaps of charisma; hand-to-hand combat is rarely his method of choice.

#asks #batman #batman meta #joker #joker meta #my meta

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littledead-ridinghood · 2 years

Text

okay, on my last meta I said Bruce has made Jason cry before and shown a lack of remorse for the fact as he does in the webtoon, and @tumblingxelian asked if they could see my "crying Jason" folder for their comic analysis videos (which go watch them!!! They're very good and break down misconceptions of characters usually focusing around Talia Al Ghul, Jason Todd, and Stephanie Brown). Specifically, the ones where bruce makes Jason cry. There's a 10-panel limit so this will be two parts split up between part one: Adult Jason and Part Two: Child Jason. These panels are either because Bruce made him cry or Bruce is in relation to the problem of why Jason is crying (think Lost Days which will be in the next part).

---------

Red Hood: Outlaws webtoon; episode 10, "Like Father, Like Son"

Shockingly, this is not the interaction that sparked so much controversy over the last couple of days. People are more so focused on Jason's Robin portrayal and the modern version of "he's another speck of dirt that belongs in the sewer" dialogue (no that's not what bruce said in the webtoon, for transparency, but that's what the toddler quote reminded me of. Bruce, when really mad at Jason always circles back to him being "dirty" and a "destined criminal" which I can write a whole think piece about if anyone cares(please)). As I said yesterday, I have had and still have no plans to read this story, the summary never interested me when announced and now I'm scared, so, grain of salt, people!

Roughly, Bruce and Jason get into an argument over the outlaws incompetently breaking laws. To which Bruce treats Jason like how a sexist pig of a man treats a woman when upset (i.e. "are you on your period?") It isn't later revealed until the end of the story (about 6-7 panels later) that yes, Jason was in fact crying underneath his helmet for the majority of his interaction with Bruce.

Classic Under the Red Hood monologue. Bruce didn't make Jason purposefully cry here, he, they, are both just....really goin' through it. Jason is crying, Bruce can't even look at him out of guilt and shame. I don't think this one needs much explanation, Jason would rather die than live with the Joker continuing to wreak havoc, and if Bruce doesn't do it, that's fine, he will, but if that bothers the man then he's gonna have to kill his resurrected son (spoilers: He does)

Remember, folks! We end this monologue with a flayed open and dead Jason!

This one I didn't realize Jason was crying because the panel's so small on the actual page until a different person pointed it out and I was like "Holy Fuck He Is! *screenshot*"

This one comes from Event Levithan (2020) where Bruce asked for Jason's help with the mass killings that have been going on around the world until Bruce reveals his hand and accuses Jay of being the mastermind behind the whole plot. The idea that Bruce was going off of was that Jason was blacking out and doing it out of grief over Roy's demise or something. Not a strong case. But, yes, this takes place in the continuity when Jason is Super DisownedTM. When Bruce finds him I'm pretty sure Jason says something along the lines of "I'm surprised you want my help" (it's been a minute). Once again, Jason's fully prepared to ignore his emotional grief and work placidly with Bruce's team. He just wanted to help Bruce on this case before Bruce once again takes that trust and shatters it (Ex: Batman and Robin N52 #20, iykyk). You can see the dark tear on the black part of his mask when he realizes and questions Bruce about what he actually wants with him. Bruce then sends his detective team off to apprehend Jason, who escapes because even if this story has super janky dialogue and unclear art, at least we get competent Jason.

This is from Jason's White Knight spin-off. Total Elseworld, but the theme carries over, Bruce, this time in relation, making Jason cry. The dude's kinda fucked up from being tortured for, what is it here, 3 months? Jason gets tortured a lot, kind of a multiversal constant for the man. You know that trope in sportsball movies where the guy's like "I could've gone pro if not for XYZ injury and my dreams were shattered. Don't end up like me. Don't play this game; it's a waste of time!" before becoming the gruff reluctant mentor to said child? That's Jason's characterization here, but, hey, at least he acknowledges he needs help. Again, Jason is only the sanest bat because he's the only one, elseworld and canon, who I've ever seen remark on the fact that their person is so entirely messed up, sick in the head, and needs help. All the other bats are like "I'm Fine!" when they're clearly not fine. So, A for effort. Again, very UtRH monologue, more so having a breakdown in relation to bruce rather than bruce causing it. He looks so young and forlorn in the second to last panel, and so alone in the last :(

This is Scott's interpretation of UtRH in RHatO V1. Very pretty Jason, not what happened. This was not a scene, and the rest of this scene completely contradicts Jason's main goal in UtRH, but I can't resist a crying Jason panel. He's debating shooting Bruce, he won't, but this one, ONE, panel of Lobdell's UtRH retcon does, I feel, accurately represent Jason's feelings during his Lost Days/UtRH phase. Think of him putting the bomb underneath the Batmobile. He says he wants Bruce to die, but every time he has the ability to do it, Jason is hit with these overwhelming feelings of "No, I *Don't* want Bruce to die! I just want him to understand!" That's why UtRH is so intriguing to read because yes, Jason primary goal is to control crime because a utopia of no crime is impossible. Yes, he's also an 18-year-old who died alone, came back alone, and didn't legitimately regain his ability to function until late 16-early 17 with the whole new trauma of the pit. You gotta find that sweet spot of morality & philosophy juxtaposed against feelings & trauma. Very Man vs. God. Yes, he brought Gotham's criminal world to his knees. Yes, to Jason, he literally died like 18 months earlier whereas everyone else got a nice 3 years to process his death and move on.

Bonus classic "Jason is clearly devasted but not crying" panels:

Hey! remember earlier when I mentioned Batman and Robin N52 #20? Ya, that's this one! I love using it in metas because I feel it's often forgotten about. This is after the Death of the Family arc where the Joker says he cut off the bats' faces with a razor blade and was going to force feed it to them as well as Dick forced to go undercover by Bruce (everyone else thinks he's dead), and Damian's death arc. In RHatO V1, the clown almost kills Jason again via acid to the face, so he's in a coma having unreliable narration within fever dreams until he has a heart-to-heart with subconscious Bruce. He wakes up and has a heart-to-heart with Real Bruce where they bury the hatchet (Jason took all the blame for everything in their relationship (Bruce! slit! his! throat!)). Later, when Bruce drops Jason off in front of his murder location, that whole interaction reads Very emotionally manipulative and prime-y (which is why I can take neither the hug with dream or real Bruce with love. Again, bitchful Killjoy. sorry). I could talk about this forever! He's so heartbroken! On the next page Jason says "how he was ready to put everything behind him." and that he "was done looking back." Anyway, they fight. Jason throws the first punch and kinda sorta halfway misses and Bruce responds with a whammy to the jaw. Hitting him into the dirt in the same spot the joker did. It comes to light, implicitly, that Bruce didn't even want Jason there to reveal his murder, but because he knew it would trigger Jason to lash out at him. He was using Jason as a tool to punish himself. Jason commits mental suicide after this; enter: amnesia arc.

Again, no tears. But they're implied.

I wanted to put the entirety of RHatO V2 #25 here, but, because that is not possible, instead y'all get this third of a page where Jason's literally given up and dropped into unconsciousness to which Bruce finally stops beating him. ahhh family, you know, dragging them around like trash because you think they did something but also have a shit tone of pent-up anger over your failed wedding and the scapegoat just happens to get caught in the crossfire of everything, and oh! Look! It looks like you beat your kid to death with your bare hands! Oh My God! Jason predominantly doesn't fight back during this, hardly even defends himself. Jason doesn't cry when he's taking or taken hits. He just rolls with them. Whether he thinks he deserves it, taking the hits for someone else and wants to be a strong protector, and/or he grew u getting beat around a lot so he's used to it/doesn't want to give [them] what they want/knows it'll only make it worse/etc etc. (*whispers* he's a child of severe abuse).

Jason is characterized as someone who is super smart, logical, and pragmatic, but he also acts with his heart a lot. He wears his helmet because as much as he tries to hide his true feelings, he has never been able to consistently hide them from his face and sleeve. Jason gets pulled in multiple directions by who he is and by what a bat is supposed to be, and I don't mean that just kill or no kill. That is not the only line that isolates him from the other. Part is due that the majority of the bats joined and formed in the wake of his death, but also a lot of his internal working seem very not bat-stereotype no matter how much his external is. I will always go back to his freedom of emotional expression on this as it's such a huge part of his character that other bats constantly rag on. For another example, for as many trust issues he has and as many times his trust has been broken, Jason, as opposed to many of the other bats, consistently puts himself back out there to trust people again and again, even if it's the same people who have abused that trust. Jason continues to try to fix things with Bruce, he continues to help people who have tried to kill him before, multiple times even (Think Duela and Suzie Sue), he tells his non-superhero friends who he is (think isabella in V1 who really wanted that openness from Jason and he gave it to here), and he continuously places complete and utter absolute trust in the teams he runs with. Artemis even said, roughly, in V2, that "as much as he tries to pretend he doesn't, Jason cares a lot. Takes every hit to the heart." And that's just a whole long-winded way of saying I like that Jason cries a lot because that emotional rawness of overwhelming emotion is really cathartic to read. I've read metas and commentary on it where people complain that Jason cries too much and it makes him pathetic and weak. I disagree. Jason has always just been like that, and this segues into Part Two! Child Jason crying about Bruce

#i'm proud of that ending lead into the next part #bruce wayne #jason todd #jason todd meta

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halfagone · 7 months

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Hi Halfa! What's 3 DC fics you'd think would be interesting to include DP characters/tropes into?

And what's 3 DP fics do you think'd be interesting to include DC characters/tropes into?

(This isn't a ploy to fish fic recs, psshhhhhhh, noooooooooo)

Hello Anon! :D Don't take this the wrong way but I am giddy with excitement right now because I've been talking about this with friends and I am just squealing now that I get to ramble about it.

Now just to clarify, I'll probably use tropes more so than specific fics, because for one, I don't want to step on any author's toes. And two, I like those fics as they are and do not want to dirty them with my grubby hands. However! I can still give fic recs so you can get an idea of the kind of AU I'm talking about here. lol Not that you're fishing for them ofc, no not at all

(Added a Read More because apparently I have a lot of fic recs. :D Total: 17 (if I mathed right, that is))

DC Fics, Now With a Splash of ectoplasm DP

Stray Tim AU

He's technically also known as Catlad, but like- I prefer Stray (as if that isn't obvious by my Stray!Danny AU XD), but that's neither here nor there. In this AU, if the name didn't explain enough, he apprentices underneath Selina as her apprentice. Depending on the author's choice, it's either as a young child or after he leaves the Batfamily for one reason or another.

An example of this AU: timcat by drakefeathers. This fic actually got recommended to me earlier today (you know who you are) and it is so cute. He is so baby and I love him.

2. Reverse Robins AU

Now this is an AU I've talked about frequently, but for good reason. There are so many ways you can write this idea- Hell, can you imagine a Demon Twins AU with Reverse Robins- Hold on a sec, let me add a WIP to my spreadsheet...

Okay, back. Anyways, where was I? Oh right, REVERSE ROBINS! In this AU, Damian is actually the oldest Batkid, and Dick is the youngest. Depending on the AU, Dick can even be an ex-Talon, so just keep that in mind~ Almost unanimously, Tim is the Batkid that died instead of Jason, and becomes the Red Hood (sometimes he was Joker Junior in this AU as well which is... uh. If you look into those fics, make sure you read the tags religiously.)

An example for this AU: and oh, my heart (how can i face you now?) by weareallstardustfallen. And this fic is *chef's kiss* It's in Damian's POV, it's a gloriously long one-shot. I cannot recommend this enough.

3. Jason Todd Goes Home

There are multiple interpretations you can do with this AU. Sometimes he doesn't become Red Hood, sometimes he doesn't get dipped in the Lazarus Pit, it all really depends on what you want to do with it. I've technically written a fic with this idea, where Danny actually finds Jason and helps him claw out of his grave, subsequently returning him home. That fic is what was lost, found again. Five chapters, completed.

There are fics where Tim actually finds Jason first! Here's one called best laid plans by Valkirin. Highly recommend. Tim finds Jason first but then the League of Assassins find them too. >:3

On a different, yet similar note, we have a fic where Talia is actually a decent person and brings Jason back??? After dunking him in a Pit??? You love to see it. This one is Verdant by Cerusee.

DP Fics Now With DC Packing

Field Trip to the Ghost Zone

There are a decent number of these fics out there if you know where to find them. I feel like this one is self-explanatory, but basically- Danny's class takes either a planned or impromptu trip to the Ghost Zone. Very rarely does his secret identity survive the fallout. Now imagine if we put Damian's class on the school bus.

Some Gothamite kid, probably: "I don't remember The Magic School Bus going like this."

Marsalias' (in)famous Mortified is definitely one of them up there. They actually wrote a second field trip fic not long after completing Mortified, which is called School Bus in the Ghost Zone. So if you're in the process of reading Mortified, or maybe you can't commit to a long-form fic right now, this one might be for you.

Deathcomes4u also has two field trip fics you can read. One of them was for this year's Phic Phight called The Gloves Are Off. He-larious fic, cannot get enough of it. Also includes some very fun DP headcanons! The second is called The Trip. You're gonna want to read the tags before you explore this one, but what's up so far a very thrilling read.

There is also Stranded With My Class, but this one is on FF.net so you might want to turn on ALL your adblockers before you venture into that site.

2. Death Day :3

I've written a chapter about this in lex luthor's ascent but it's part of a larger plot so I hope no one feels pressured to read it. But in general this fic idea can be very heavy, BE CAREFUL if you explore it. You can have DC characters react to Danny's death day, you can give Jason or Damian or Cass- or pretty much any resurrected DC character you like- a death day. Spread the whump and angst, that's how we show our love.

Here is an example, also from Deathcomes4u: Anniversary. I really enjoy how this author writes the background characters as well. It's got a splash of humor and the Everlasting Trio makes me all soft. :')

Death Day Evolution by gamma_radio has some great worldbuilding and lore added to the concept. I love how they tied Danny gets new powers in this fic, and you gotta love the Cryptid Danny Fenton energy. XD

3. Partial Identity Reveals

Now this one is more self-indulgent for me, but I'm allowed to do that. XD I would've put simply Cryptid Danny, but it encompasses a little more than that in most cases, which is why I kept this title for it instead.

These are fics where Danny is revealed or shown to be Off™ somewhat, but in most cases they don't know the full extent of his secret identity. Most of the time it's just his powers or that he's not fully human, what have you. I love a good bombastic identity reveal, you know, but something about the subtler ones are more inspirational, if you will. lol

I think this is the type of AU that would suit a Batman detective story much more, and allows the DC characters more time and interaction into this new world- if you will- rather than throwing them straight in it. Does that make sense? I hope that makes sense.

Shots Fired by RedGhost1010 is an exceptional fic (I believe this author is also the person who writes Stranded with My Class, mentioned earlier, just uses a different pen name on Ao3). However, please read the tags for it before you do. This fic can be triggering for some people. They also write what is probably my favorite Bad Parent Jack and Maddie fic, which is called Humans and Ghosts. Another one you probably should read the tags for. But please check out their other fics; I enjoy so many of them, but unfortunately not all of them fit this fic rec description. :\

Finally we have It's Like Time Stops by anthrop. I cannot tell you how many times I reread this fic way back when. It's a very tasty Outsider POV fic that gives a view into how things changed after the Accident, and it's a good study into how his classmates would have perceived it.

Whooo... that's a lot of fic recs. I hope you got some new things to read out of it at least! Have some fun, but make sure to take care of yourself and avoid the fics that just aren't for you. No one will blame you for it. <3

#halfagone replies #fic recs #SO MANY holy cow #when did i read all these things?#the world may never know

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batpham-discord-highlights · 2 years

Text

Some T-Odd Relations

Source: #ghosts-and-bats

This is how I imagine if other bat kids saw Danny for the first time. Each of them will be like, the very first time everyone knows about Danny. This is based on Danny looking like Jason.

Dick saw Danny in Jason Todd memorial park with another girl (Jazz)

Dick (during family dinner): looking at Jason with sus eyes

Jason: ...what?...Firefly jetpack exploding is not my fault...

Dick: Do you have a child that we don't know about?

Bruce: chokes on his food

Tim saw Danny at a coffee shop order his signature coffee.

Tim (in a bat cave working on a case with Jason): i guess Harvey was innocent on this one after all.

Jason: Yeah

...feel bad for punching him in the scar side

Tim: Yeah.....oh also I think you got cloned.

Jason: EX FKING CUSE ME!??

Ooop—

Mind if I write a oneshot based off of this?

Damien meets Danny in the Gotham Dog Park, walking a very green looking dog....

He follows them want to ask what breed the dog is but they disappear around the corner

Damien during training session with Jason

Damien: Todd you should keep your reproductive liquids in check

Jason: trips his step and get kneed by Damien

Go for it XD. Credit me tho. XD.

reproductive fluids

Always do!

Duke saw Danny in a school library, but he mysteriously vanishes in one of the isles.

Duke: looking at Jason during a family movie night

Jason: Something on your mind buddy?

Duke: ....yeah nuh it couldn't be you, he was too young..

Jason: 🤨

Cass and Steph saw Danny at a shopping mall with another red hair girl (Jazz)

They are in a kitchen watching Jason make cupcakes for them.

Cass: ...👈 🤰 👨‍🍼

Steph: Nuh I don't think so, the kid look the same age as that girl.

Jason: What are you two on about?

Steph: Oh just a potential child of yours on streets of Gotham.

Jason: trips and drops the cupcakes

alfred being dragged into this as well

Just everyone thinking that’s his kid

Bruce runs into Danny at Gala (Vald drags him to it)

Bruce: brain short-circuited as he watches a younger Jason in a suit

-Somehow, he made it back home after being non-responsive according to Alfred-

Bruce: looking at Jason in the library as Jason was reading his books

Jason: Heck you want old man??

Bruce: ....Am I a grandpa?...

Jason: accidently tears a page from a book

Jason never runs into Danny but he did run into Phantom during his patrol

Jason: watches a kid makes a joke out of Joker and his goons Damn, this kid good...better shoo him out before Bats gets here

Selina meets Danny at a cat cafe.

Selina: pulls out her phone and calls her Husband (Selina and Bruce is married screw you, I want Bruce to be happy) Hey Bruce...honey...are you sure Jason is still single. Watches Danny leaves the cafe yeah...I see you met him too? Yeah...yeah...just saw him at the cafe I regularly go to...yeah...you should get the papers ready for Jason...tell Alfred to call the guy too.

I-

This is so perfect lmao

Poor Jason

Nice

Alfred meets Danny during grocery shopping. Danny helps Alfred with carry the stuff across the street.

Alfred thanks and walks back home.

Alfred: looks at Jason as try to sneak a cookie you know i don't mind having a little version of you running around Mater Todd.

Jason: drops the cookie

bruce meeting Danny on patrol

Even better if it’s Crime Alley near where he originally met Jason

Lmao he didn't respond on the comms for a good amount of hours even tho he still does patrol

Crime alley kid round two electric boogaloo

If Jason doesn’t adopt “his kid” then Bruce will

Barbara and Batkids ; Bats why weren't you responding???? We were worried.

Bruce : ....Jason has a kid and I am a grandpa...

he finds Danny near the batmobile

XD. Doesn't help Jason's case

Screw it im making it homeless baby Danny let’s heccin go

Reveal gone wrong

Danny was just trying to take a pic of the batmobile.

He socked Bruce in the stomache as he got spooked by Batman

Them having a tire iron to defend themselves

Either that or a crowbar

Or a thermos

(Tire iron cause that’s what Jason had had when he first met bats)

Crowbar for obvious reasons

Or a thermos!

jason coming face to face with Danny and wondering just who this kid is

Danny : ....Dan?!

Got Danny Nightingale cause of fentonightingale

[Danny : ....Dan?!]

O rip

Mini heart attack if he’s out of costume

Yeah XD.

Danny coming back to an apartment where he is staying.

Video call Jazz and his two bffs.

Danny : Yo guys saw someone who looks like Dan

So like what is Danny to Jason

Some random kid XD

Jason ironically doesn't see the resemblance

I mean like

Is he Jason's little brother? Son? 5th cousin twice removed??

Nothing

It's that case of 7 people in the world who look like u huh

He just looks like young Jason with a different hairstyles

[Got Danny Nightingale cause of fentonightingale]

Would be funnier if he went with Todd

Nightingale as a hero name

👁👁

Hecc ye

Todd can be Maddie’s maiden name

Gil

my only complaint is that Dan has long hair in a low ponytail and Jason has short hair and the white stripe

so he wouldn’t be that look alike

what is Danny was an attempt of a Clone child by the League of Assassins?

Gil

also we only see Dan in ghost form, danny never saw him as human

[what is Danny was an attempt of a Clone child by the League of Assassins?]

like he has Jason DNA, was rapidly aged with fake memories, now ages normally

fake memories of being a toddler*

he was raised normally after being dropped off to the Fenton’s

Gil

ok and then the Fenton’s just adopted a grown kid out of nowhere?

and are their memories altered as well?

and jazz?

probably

same with Sam and Tucker, I guess?

Gil

why not keep the clone and train them themselves (the League, i mean)

to create the perfect weapon yadda yadda

he probably had training before getting dumped

I like the idea of it literally all just being a coincidence better

No one would ever believe it, but somehow, it's still true

Or Maddie could be, like, second cousins twice removed from Jason or something

Her mom's maiden name was Todd and Danny had a really good relationship with his grandma, so he took in her name when he had to run

Grandma Todd got some lucky chances and worked her way off the streets

Willis was her older half-brother's grandson

And Jason and Danny just happen to have unnaturally close DNA matches because ectoplasm is just recognized as a new, unique allele

ooo

ye true

A covert DNA test reveals matching ectoplasm levels that make the bats think Jason's spawn

Ooooh that sounds good!

Oh same brain

Gil

ok that's fun

Yesss more misunderstandings!!!

>:D

My DNA class is finally having real world applications lol :dick_laugh:

The bats end up peer pressuring Jason into adopting what they think is his spawn.

[Her mom's maiden name was Todd and Danny had a really good relationship with his grandma so he took in her name when he had to run]

That’s legit how I’m doing it lmao

[The bats end up peer pressuring Jason into adopting what they think is his spawn.]

"take responsibility Jason"

Danny: I'm not responsibility, nor am I his

Jazz supports the adoption of his brother and Danny knows that there ain't anyway out of it

"i fOUnD HiM nEAr tHE bATMobILE, like that's an inherited trait, Bruce." - Jason

Bruce directly after- "For all I know it is"

“Have you seen this family?”

Oh Jason, getting misunderstood so badly

They think he's denying it so much b/c he's embarrassed or something

"It's okay son, we all make mistakes"

Honestly, seems legit

Jason gets all offended

"Hey, don't call him a mistake"

because that's a mean thing to say

"how could u be so embarrassed about your own son jason!?"

“Yeah I know you do, have you seen Damian?”

but they think he just admitted to it

Grem

Dick, Tim and Damian on the other side of the room having a meltdown

The 3 of them "We are uncles?"

you can't escape fatherhood now Jason >:)

How old are Jason and Danny tho

Danny is tempted to yeet himself back in time to avoid this mess, but ClockWork thinks it's funny and says no

Would be really funny if damian was younger than danny

Grem

Maybe Jason has 24 and Danny 14, but looks like he has 9

So Jason got a girl pregnant at 10!?/j

[Maybe Jason has 24 and Danny 14, but looks like he has 9]

as someone who at 14 was called an 8-year-old, i can vouch for realism

[So, Jason got a girl pregnant at 10!?/j]

it would look like 14 or 15

they're all very concerned when they find out Danny's true age

or think he's lying

Grem

[as someone who at 14 was called an 8 year old, i can vouch for realism]

I'm speaking from experience, i was 13 with the face of a baby

because obviously he was born after Jason was in the pit

blame it all on Talia, man

[I'm speaking from experience, i was 13 with the face of a baby]

ah, im just very short

Maybe they think Lazarus is radioactive and causes weird age shenanigans

Grem

[they're all very concerned when they find out Danny's true age]

Maybe they think he was put in a tank to grow faster or something like that

or that the pit cloned Jason when it brought him back

Danny having to pull out All the school records to prove that he did exist since birth

Oop

jokes on him the Fenton’s didn't file any or his birth certificate

a Steven universe situation?

Grem

He gets Jazz to testify that he indeed has 14

[Steven universe situation?]

Possibly

[Steven universe situation?]

more like they just forgot to after having the kids at home and no one pressed for records b/c it's the Fenton’s

[“Yeah, I know you do, have you seen Damian?”]

This leads to a fight that distracts from the whole supposed baby-daddy situation

Jazz has kept extensive documents on her little bro she can in fact testify

Jazzy coming in clutch lmao

Also, Danny and tucker were like attached at the hip so he can also vouch

Jazz was the one to fill the-

JAZZ CAN FORGE HER PARENTS SIGNATURES

[Steven universe situation?]

Intense confusion

Grem

And now they think she was mind controlled and those memories and papers are fake

Ooop

[JAZZ CAN FORGE HER PARENTS SIGNATURES]

This just makes then sus of the papers lmao

More and more convoluted misunderstandings

Eventually Danny just accepts it and gives up

Jazz snapping and saying that she’s the one who raised Danny and accidentally making things worse

Jazz frantically pointing "I RAISED THAT BOY

Grem

Now, it doesn't matter if he is or isn't Jason's son, they will adopt him

The Bats are worried for their safety

Danny actually being Jason’s half sibling

Through like their mom or smth

Grem

I think the 2nd cousins once removed is funnier

Ye me too

But the drama

DRAMA WITH THE HALF SIBLING SHENANIGANS

So Jason ends up adopting his half sibling/2nd cousin who everyone thinks is 9 and nothing they do can prove that he is not 9

Grem

After discovering that they are brothers, maybe they think that Maddie is curse and all her offspring will die and comeback

And Jazz is a little worried for her safety

[So Jason ends up adopting his half sibling/2nd cousin who everyone thinks is 9 and nothing they do can prove that he is not 9]

What is one more problem child

Danny keeps insisting he isn't a child, then youngblood comes along and that's all the proof needed against his claims

... what does Vlad think about this

Vlad doesn’t have a valid opinion

he's jealous

:dick_laugh:

#ghosts and bats channel #batman #danny phantom #danny fenton #dc x dp #bruce wayne #dick grayson #tim drake #damian al ghul #jason todd #batfam #jazz fenton #tucker foley #misunderstanding #miscommunication #complicated family relationships

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