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☆ 2006 Paley Television Fest

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Official name: 23rd William S. Paley Television Festival Location: The Museum of Television & Radio (The Paley Media Center), John H. Mitchell Theatre, Los Angeles, California Time: Saturday, March 4, 2006, 7:00pm (GMT-7) Panelists: David Bushman, Peter Johnson, Kim Manners, John Shiban, Jensen Ackles, Jared Padalecki, Robert Singer, Eric Kripke Last episode: 1x16 “Shadow”- 2/28/2006 Next episode: 1x17 “Hell House”- 3/30/2006

Question Index: 1- (10:30) SPN Origins (Kripke) 2- (12:20) Sam and Dean Motivation (Kripke) 3- (14:10) Firsts Impressions "J2," Auditioning Sam and Dean (Kripke) 4A- (16:03) Auditioning for Sam and Dean (Jared) 4Aa- (16:53) SPN Appeal (Jared) 4B- (19:22) Auditioning for Sam and Dean (Jensen) 5A- (22:09) SPN Start (Manners) 5B- (26:04) SPN Start (Shiban) 5C- (27:34) SPN Start (Singer) 6- (31:04) SPN Mythology/Formula (Shiban, Kripke) 7- (34:18) Pre-Finale Thoughts (Kripke) 8A- (35:38) Location Significance- John in Sacramento (Shiban) 8B- (36:12) Location Significance- Lawrence Kansas (Kripke) 9- (36:58) Fear "Paranormal"- (Manners, Shiban, J2, Kripke) 10- (38:54) Continuity Mistake "4 years vs 2 years at Standford" (Kripke) 11- (40:39) Network Censorship "Gore"- (J2, Kripke, Singer) 12- (43:56) Paranormal on Set (J2) 13- (46:09) Network Censorship “Sex” (Kripke) 14- (47:19) Pre-series Sam and Dean (Kripke) 15- (49:06) Samulet (Jensen, Kripke) 16- (49:54) Special effects, Gag Reels (Jensen, Jared, Manners) 17- (53:15) Religion “Jensen,” Dean Winchester cellphone # (Jared, Jensen) 18- (55:39) Impala 67 (Jensen, Manners) 19- (56:15) SPN Music (Kripke, Singer) 20A- (58:41) Acting Advice “Start” (Jared) 20B- (1:00:08) Acting Advice “Start” (Jensen) 21- (1:01:02) Props "Alcohol" (Jared, Jensen) 22A- (1:02:14) Favorite Scene (Manners) 22Aa- (1:04:12) Acting Challenges “Shadow” (Jensen) 22B- (1:05:00) Favorite Scene (Shiban) 22C- (1:06:14) Favorite Scene (Jensen) 22D- (1:07:34) Favorite Scene (Jared) 22E- (1:09:18) Favorite Scene (Singer) 22F- (1:10:18) Favorite Scene (Kripke)

(transcript below the cut)

(*if you notice any mistakes in the video transcripts please point them out thanks*👍)

(0:00)

David Bushman is standing alone on stage in front of a mic reading off a script.

Bushman: Um, hi, everyone. My name is David Bushman. I'm television curator at the Museum of Television and Radio. And I want to welcome all of you to the museum's 23rd am-annual William Paley television festival. (thumbs to his right)

That clip that you just saw is from “Route 66,” which is one of the shows that, um, the creator Eric Kripke of, um, of “Supernatural,” um, often cites is one of his influences and that explains why we picked it. (thumbs to his right) That's part of our collection. We have 120,000 television and radio, uh, programs in our collection. And I would encourage all of you to visit the Museum in Beverly Hills, and in New York w-when you're there.

Um, tonight we're really excited to be honoring “Supernatural” which was named one of the top five new series of 2005 by Entertainment Weekly. “Supernatural” is aaa- a vibrant fresh exciting show that combines all sorts of genre elements: family drama, comedy, suspense, and on top of that it just scares the hell out of you. (audience laughs) I really want to thank Warner Brothers for all they did in helping make this night happen, particularly the PR department Holly Ollis and Winson Seto. Thank- thank you very much.

Um, what we're gonna do tonight is we're gonna, um, introduce right up front the cast and the creative team, our panels for the evening. Introduce them very briefly. Um, Eric is going to say a few words about what you're going to see. Then we're gonna.. watch an episode of the program, which Eric will talk about. Then we'll bring the panelists back up. I'll ask some questions and then you guys are on. So, start thinking of questions now. Okay?

(1:35)- first introductions

Bushman: Um, so, let me start with the panelists’ intros. First, uh, one of the producers of “Supernatural,” please welcome Peter Johnson.

Audience claps and cheers. Bushman looks to his left. Johnson walks on to the stage. Bushman meets him and shakes his hand. Johnson waves then goes down the stages stairs to sit in the front row. Bushman returns to the mic.

Bushman: Uh, next we have co-executive producer and director Kim Manners.

Audience claps and cheers. Bushman walks away from the mic. Manners enters on stage with his hands fiddling with his pants’ pockets and walks off the stages stairs to sit in the front row.

Bushman: Next we have co-executive producer and writer John Shiban.

Audience claps. Shiban walks out on stage waves to the audience and goes down the stairs to sit on the front row.

Bushman: Next, he plays Dean Winchester. Please welcome Jensen Ackles.

Audience screams and claps. Jensen walks out on stage and waves. He then jogs down the stage stairs to sit in the front row.

Bushman: Next, Sam Winchester. Please welcome Jared Padalecki.

Audience screams and claps. Jared speed walks out on stage, but walks passed the stairs a bit. He grimaces then bends down to look for the stairs while laughing a little, and then jogs down the stairs to sit in the front row.

Bushman: Next, the executive producer and director, Robert Singer.

Audience claps. Singer comes out on stage and waves to Bushman. Then he walks down the stairs to sit in the front row.

Bushman: Finally, the man whose vision, uh, created “Supernatural,” is the creator, executive producer, and writer. Please welcome Eric Kripke.

Audience cheers and claps. Kripke walks out on stage. He waves to the audience then walks to Bushman and shakes his hand. Bushman walks off stage and Kripke takes over the mic.

Kripke: Hey everybody. (audience responds back) Thank you so much, uh, for coming. Uhhh, it's a little, uh, overwhelming and- and amazing, uh, quite frankly.

This is to my knowledge, I mean, the first gathering of any “Supernatural” fans anywhere. So, thank you to you and give yourself (audience cheers and claps) a round of applause.

Uhm, just quick story from the set of “Supernatural” ‘cause it just happened last night. Uh, which is they were, uh, they shoot up in Vancouver. And, uh, they were shooting up at Stanley Park or about to begin production which is a-a public park up in Vancouver. Um, and, uh- uh, we're about to start filming when they got a call that, uh, there was a man about 100-200 yards from the film company, uh, with a handgun and, uh, they called, you know, Jared and Jensen. Said, you know, “Don't come to set. There's a man with a handgun.” And- and they shut down the whole production for two hours. They called in the police. They called in the SWAT team. Uh, they stormed-

This is all true. (laughs) (audience laughs) Very true. This all just happened last night. Uh, they all stormed Stanley- you know, SWAT teams storm Stanley Park, uh, looking for this man with a gun. Uh, and it turned out to be a, uh, member of our special-effects crew. (audience laughs) (laughs) So, good times from the set of “Supernatural.”

Ehahm, anyway. So, uh, I'm supposed to introduce the episode. So, let me- let me do that. Uh, the episode we're showing tonight is, uh, “Scarecrow.” Uum. (audience claps) (nods) All right, “Scarecrow” fans in the house. Uh, “Scarecrow,” uh, was written by the, uh, very brilliant, uh, John Shiban. Uh, (audience claps) so, round of applause for John. And it was directed by the very brilliant Kim Manners. (audience claps) (clears throat) Um, and so the reason, uh, we chose “Scarecrow” is we sort of felt it was, uh, just a good mix of sort of everything that the show is about.

Um, you know we think there's really some good drama between the brothers. We think there's some good comedy. Uh, we think there's, you know, good mythology about Dad and this is the char- is the episode that introduces Meg which people online had problems with (audience laughs) I seem to remember.

Um.. and, uh- And it's, you know, just, we think a-a scary, uh, damn good episode and- and- and based on a-a good series of, uh, you know, very fun urban legends about scarecrows. And so, I'll stop rattling on. Enjoy “Scarecrow.” We'll talk after. Thank you (audience claps)

Kripke goes off stage. Video fads to black.

(5:57)- second introductions

Visual comes back. Audience is clapping while Bushman walks on a lit stage with seven empty chairs and three round coffee tables each with bottle waters on top.

Bushman: Um, are there any “X-File”fans out there in the audience right now? (audience cheers and claps) It’s, uh- Every time I see this episode I feel like shaking Dean and saying, “What are you doing trusting the cigarette-smoking manager.” (audience laughs) (looks down to read his script)

Um, I'm going to bring our panelists back up on stage. Um, our first panelist is co-executive producer and director on “Supernatural.” He's directed nearly 300 hours of television, including 53 episodes of the “X-Files” which he also produced. Please welcome Kim Manners. (audience claps and cheers)

Manners walks on stage from the front row. Bushman shakes his hand and directs him to “move all the way down, please.” Manners follows the direction and sits on the farthest chair from the stairs.

Bushman: Our next panelist is a co-executive producer and writer on “Supernatural.” He began his career as a staff writer on the “X-files,” writing or co-writing over 20 episodes, and eventually serving as executive producer. He was also co-creator and executive producer of the “Lone Gunman” and supervising producer of “Harsh Realm” and is written for and produced “Star Trek Enterprise,” “Threat Matrix,” and “USA Network's Frankenstein.” Please welcome John Shiban. (audience claps)

Shiban walks on stage from the front row. He nods at Bushman and briefly holds a hand out to the audience and then walks to sit beside Manners. A stage assistant stands behind his chair to help Shiban with his clip-on mic. The footage then switches goes back to Bushman reading his script.

Bushman: Our next panelist portrays Dean, (audience squeals and claps) (laughs) wisecracking older Winchester brother. Before “Supernatural” (laughs at audience still chuckling) (one audience member briefly screams) Before- (laughs) Before “Supernatural” he was familiar to WB viewers is Jason Teague on “Smallville.” (audience squeals and claps) I don't know if I'm going to get through these intros. (audience laughs) He had a recurring role on “Dawson's Creek” and was a regular on “Dark Angel.” He- (audience claps and cheers) (smiles and laughs) He received three Daytime Emmy nominations for his role on Days- (audience cheer) (briefly laughs, lowers his script and then looks audience) Pl-please welcome Jensen Ackles. (Audience screams, cheers, and claps.)

Jensen waves at the audience as he walks on stage. He shakes Bushman’s hand and then goes to sit beside Shiban. He shrugs at Shiban and Manners. Before he sits down he takes off his leather jacket and says, “For you Jared.” The audience laughs. Bushman laughs and then looks back down at his script.

Bushman: Um, our next panelist portrays Sam, the rebellious- (audience screams) (Bushman and the audience laugh) rebellious younger Winchester brother. Before “Supernatural” he was best known as Rory's boyfriend Dean on Gilmore Girls. (audience screams) His- (laughs) His- (laughs) (audience laughs) His film credits include-

Audience member: I love you! (audience laughs and Bushman smiles)

Jared: (from his seat) I love you!

Bushman: (increases dialogue speed) His film credits include: “House of Wax,” “Cheaper by the Dozen,” “Flight of the Phoenix.” Please welcome Jared Padalecki.

Jared walks on stage and shakes Bushman’s hand. And goes to sit beside Jensen. Jensen holds out his hand to Jared, which claps it before he sits down. The audience laughs. Jensen shakes his head and then thumbs at Jared, who’s scratching his head. The camera goes back to Bushman.

Bushman: Our next panelist executive produces “Supernatural” and directs episodes of this series. Formerly- (audience laughs) (glances at the panelists) Uh, formerly vice president of NBC drama development. He later teamed with Daniel Blatt to produce films and TV series including “V the final battle” (audience woo’s) and Stephen King's “Cujo”. On his own, he has executive produced “Midnight Caller,” Lois Clark- “Lois & Clark the new Adventures of Superman” (audience claps and cheers) and “Reasonable Doubts” which he also created. Please welcome Robert Singer.

Audience (or possibly J2 screaming) screams, claps, and cheers. Singer walks up the stairs and shakes Bushman’s hand while walking to his seat beside Jared. Singer mimics a repetitive smacking motion with both hands towards Jared and Jensen. The audience laughs. Singer and Jared shakes hands before he sits down. The stage assistant gets Singer’s attention. J2 are smirking. The camera goes back to Bushman.

Bushman: Um, our final panelist today is the creator of “Supernatural,” in addition to executive producing and writing for the series. His previous TV credits include the WB series “Tarzan.” He also wrote and co- (Jared? woo’s) -produced (audience and Bushman laugh. The audience claps and cheers.) He also wrote and co-produced the feature film “Boogeyman.” (audience starts cheering) Please welcome Eric Kripke.

Kripke walks up stage and shakes Bushman’s hand. Then he walks to his seat beside Singer. Bushman then goes to the last seat at the end and waits for Kripke’s mic to be clipped on his jacket by the stage assistant.

Bushman: Okay. I'll start with a few questions before (gestures at audience) we open it to you guys. Eric the first one would be for you.

•(10:30)- PaleyFest06;Q1 – SPN Origins (Kripke)

Bushman: I'm just kind of curious how- how this the idea for this series, um, the genesis of it. And-and how it evolved from concept to, uh, what we see on the screen.

Kripke: Um, I, eh- For a really long time I wanted to do a show about, uh, American folklore and urban legends. (Bushman nods) Sort of (gestures) kind of a subject that, you know, even back to elementary school I've been, you know, kind of obsessed with.

As a matter of fact the very (bounces his pointer finger out) my very, very first TV pitch when I first started in town when I was 23- (shrugs) 24 was a-a-a (gestures) urban legend show and I kept (gestures) trying different versions of it and kept getting Smackdown. (audience giggles and Jared smiles) Um, I tried to do it as an anthology (taps his pointer) and then I had this idea of like a (gestures) bunch of reporters in a van, like “Scooby Doo” style. (audience laughs) A-all these sort of terrible ideas.

And then, uh- And then I was, you know, working with Warner Brothers and- and- and just come off of, uh- uh, (fake coughs) ��Tarzan.” And- (audience laughs. Jared laughs.) (Kripke laughs) And, uh- and they said, you know, “What do you- What- What show would you want to do?” And I said (gestures), “Well, an urban legend show.” And they said, “Well, what- what's the concept?”

And I had this (gestures) really long elaborate storyline that I'd spent weeks and weeks on, uh, on about (gestures) a reporter. Um, and it was almost exactly (laughs and gestures) “Night Stalker.” (audience laughs) which was hilarious. Um, and, uh- and, uh, they- they (tilts his head) kind of looked at me and they were like, (shrugs) “Nah.” (audience giggles) There’re like, you know, (shrugs) “Any other, you know?” (shrugs) “What else?” and I said, “Well” (mimics writing) Because I-I'd literally scribbled it my notebook the day before, which was- I said, “Well, you know, it could be like Route 66. Like two guys on a road trip.” And they're like, (stop gesture) “We love that do that.” (Jared and audience laugh) And I-I- So, just kind of came out of nowhere, and just sort of, uh, developed from there.

And- and it turned out to be just the- the right, uhh- You know, the right way into this show. Because they can just drive it- You know, the boys can just drive in and out of a different horror movie every week, so. (audience chuckles)

•(12:20)- PaleyFest06;Q2- Sam and Dean family motivation (Kripke)

Bushman: Did you- Did you, um, at that point know w-in terms of characters who those two guys were? I mean, how did the whole this whole family element, which is so important to the show. I mean even, you know, um, you know, Jared says to-to the girl in this episode, uh, “I've got to go back because it's my family.” How did that whole family aspect-

Kripke: Um, just you know you- you write what you know. And- and I'm from a very, uh, close-knit, (Bushman clears his throat) uh, family and I have a (gestures) big brother. Um, and, uh you know, and I have, you know, a lot of, you know, really great friends and s- and just you know sort (gestures) of the way guys talk and the way they communicate without (gestures) ever really communicating anything. And.. (audience laughs) (smiles)

Um, and, uh- So, (gestures) it just kind of- It- it kind of grew- grew out of that. And, uh, so I knew I wanted to do, you know, uh- You know, in terms of characters, I knew I wanted you know the- the little brother to, you know, (gestures) be conflicted and have a lot of, you know, a lot of the angst and problems which I (gestured to Jared) threw right to Jared. (audience laughs) (J2 smile. Jared nods and clears his throat)

Um, and I wanted a- and-and- I wanted a big brother just be a total smartass. (audience laughs) I mean, that's how I started you know? (Jensen smiles, chuckles and turns to his right. Jared nods and then claps Jensen’s knees. The audience laughs.) Um, and— (Bushman: mm) and so you know and-and-and- it's- and it's, you know, w-w-with a show like this it’s, you know, the, eh, with the genre and it's sort of out there it's-it's- it really needs like a grounding influence. And so, to ground the show into family and elements of family. Um, and that (gestures), you know, that care that these brothers have for each other, uh, (Jared offers to pour Jensen water in his glass. Jensen gives him a go ahead gesture.) really helps us because these two guys. (audience giggles) (Kripke stops and looks at J2 and J2 are biting their lips)

Shiban: They hug. They hug.

Singer and Kripke look at Jared. Jared smiling makes to put the water bottle behind his chair, but then sets it on the table. The audience keeps giggling. Kripke: Oh. Bushman: He’s pouring him a glass of water. (Kripke looks at Bushman) (mimics pouring water) He’s pouring him a glass of water.

Kripke: Yeah. (gestures) Because these two guys, I mean, the- (J2 are silently laughing) the relationship they have. I mean sometimes we have, you know, (Jensen scratches behind his ear. Jared is biting his finger and silently laughing and then Jared slaps Singer’s thigh) good subject matter and sometimes, you know, we don't. Um, (laughs) (audience, J2, and Singer laugh) but the- but the- the relationship with the brothers- these two actors always sees us through, so.

•(14:10)- PaleyFest06;Q3 - first impressions “J2”, auditioning for Sam and Dean (Kripke)

Bushman: Did- Um, were you familiar with their work? Um, or did you just bring in a ton of actors to audition for the roles?

Kripke: Uh, we, uh, auditioned everybody in town. Um, as you always do kind of on these pilots. (Bushman: uh-huh) Um, my, uh, my wife was quite the “Gilmore Girls” fan. So, (audience laughs) (Kripke looks at Jared) I, uh, I knew, uh-

Jared looking around at the audience. Audience laughs and claps. Jared points around the audience. Then smiles and laughs.

Kripke: (laughs) So, uh, I knew, uh, I-I knew Jared's work. And Jensen, uh, our director David Nutter, (Bushman: uh-huh) who directed the pilot, um, knew Jensen from, uh, (looks over at Jensen) either- Was it “Dark Angel?” From.. (Jensen: mhm, yeah) And he knew him from “Dark Angel” and so, uh- (gestures to the audience) “Dark Angel!” (gestures to Jensen) Jensen in Dark Angel!

The audience claps and cheers. Jared woo’s and claps. Jensen gives the audience two thumbs up. Jared then goes to drink his water. Jensen looks down chuckling.

Kripke: And, uh- So, when we were, you know. (Jensen scratches his forehead. Audience member laughs.) When we were casting the characters it was- it was David Nutter who said, you know, “We have to- we have to fly down Jensen.” Who was up shooting “Smallville” at the time. So, he wasn't really in the- in the- in the pilot pool. And, you know, (shakes head) thank God we did. Because he walked- eh-uh (holds up his hands) Actually the story, which was funny, is Jensen walked in the room and-and met with us and-and-and David and Peter Johnson and I. And-and we talked to him and talked to him and we walked out the door and we looked at each other we were so exciting we're like we found and we found Sam.

Audience ohs and laughs. Jensen raises his eyebrows and nods. Kripke looks over at the boys.

Jared: I didn't get flown down. I had to ride myself (Kripke laughs: Yeah. Yeah.) Soo. (Kripke: And, uh-) I just wanted that to be known. (laughs) (Jensen is looking down smirking)

Kripke: And it- and it was- and so, you know, these things just kind of form as-as puzzle pieces come together. And it wasn't until we met Jared that we're like, “Well that's Sam!” And we're like, (Jared chuckles) “And then, you know, Jensen could be Dean!” And then, it all just kind of, you know, it all kind of came together from there.

Bushman: That’s real interesting. Well, how about you guys, Jared and Jensen? Can you tell the story of-

Jared: (thumbs to Jensen) I’ll let Jensen take that one.

Bushman: from your, um-

Jensen: Uh (points to Jared) you go ahead. (scratches the bridge of his nose)

Jared: (swipes hand in the air) Oh, Jensen (laughs) (Jensen: Oh no) that’s- that’s totally you. (pets his pants leg) What was the- (Jensen: honestly.) (looks at Bushman) What’s the- What’s the exact question?

Bushman: the question is-

The audience laughs. Jared rolls his tongue laughing and then turns his head down to scratch his hair. Jensen is smiling.

Jared: W (laughs to Jensen) I can-

Jensen: (to Jared) Is it a (briefly throws his hand up) spelling Bee? (Jared laughs and looks back at Bushman)

Bushman: Can you, uh, Can-

Jared: Can you use the word in a sentence?

Kripke: Spell. Spell leopard.

Jensen: Yeah, can you use that in a sentence? (straightens his shirt)

Jared: Leper?

Kripke: Leopard.

Jared: Leopard.

•(16:03)- PaleyFest06;Q4A- Auditioning for Sam and Dean (Jared)

Bushman: No, no, no. The question was, uh, Can you talk about the audition process from y-your perspective.

Jared: Well, it’s interesting, actually for me, hearing it from Eric's perspective. Um. I, uh, I’ve obviously been working with Warner Brothers for “Gilmore Girls.” And, um, the five years prior to doing the show I worked on Gilmore Girls to sort of developed a relationship with, um, some of the people at the Warner Brothers offices.

And I had kind of heard about a few of the pilots coming out. And I read this one in particular and I really enjoy the- the characters. And it really struck me as something that- I remembered hearin’ sort of (gestures) once in its breakdown of like it's (gestures) kind of a supernatural. It’s called “Supernatural” (Kripke laughs). And I was thinking like great (briefly throws up hand) “Charmed” or “Buffy,” (audience laughs) which are all great shows, but not the show I wanted to be a part of, you know? I didn't want to do “Roswell” or “Charmed” or “Buffy.” And then, when I read it I was like wow this is- this is very interesting and- and so much more than just like, “Ooo, scary show.” So-

•(16:53)- PaleyFest06;Q4Aa- SPN Appeal (Jared)

Bushman: what- what, uh, appealed to you about it?

Jared: Well, I sort of, uh, I grew up son of an English teacher. So, she was always big- and she would actually taught heroes myths and legends. So, I was familiar with mythology and sort of, uh, the Joseph Campbell taught, teachings. (turns to audience) The taught-teachings of Joseph Campbell. (audience laughs) And, uh, (Kripke chuckles) (scratches head)

Singer: Didn’t- didn't rub off that she was an English teacher. (Jensen mimics closing a film clapperboard)

Jared: It didn’t rub off. (looks down smiling and claps) (Kripke laughs)

Shiban: Yes. (Singer clears throat)

Jared: Uh, yeah. It didn't. It didn’t. I just work till 4:30 this morning in Vancouver. So, I’m a little worse for ware.

Bushman: It’s kind of interesting that you mentioned Joseph Campbell, cuz there's a little bit of “The Reluctant Hero” in your character.

Jared: Very much. I mean there's more than- there's so much more than just the Reluctant Hero. I mean, when you get into the archetypes they're sort of- each script is just bursting at the seams with archetypes and (briefly throws his hand up), you know, last thing I think these people want to hear is me going to a (Bushman chuckles) explanation of- (Audience laughs. Jensen fakes snoring) (briefly throws his hand up) I love the script. (turns to Jensen) I love the character. (shakes Jensen’s leg)

Bushman: Did, uh, so- (Jensen mimics waking up with a shout)

Jared: (leans towards Jensen rotating his pointer finger in the air) We're doing a- we're doing, um, a answer-

Jensen: (shrugs and frowns) I’m awake (reaches for the water)(audience laughs)

Jared: Okay. (turns back to Bushman, smiling and scratching his head)

Bushman: So, uh- Well, so your agent sent you script and you were- you were auditioning for Sam all along?

Jared: Uhh, right. (hits his knee) Right. I guess- I guess w-where the- where the process.. or how the process- where it was when it reached me was: read the script, see if you like the character, see if you like the script. (gestures) It was sort of like do you, you know, do you mesh with this- (gestures) Do you feel you could mesh with this script. And I felt I could and so I went in (thumbs towards Kripke) and I- and I met some of the guys, and I re-met Nutter and.. you know, sat in an office with- Who was it Kripke? (Jared leans forward than back to see Kirpke)

Kripke: (leans forward than back, in response Jared starts rapidly leaning back and forth) It was, uh, Me, Nutter, Peter Johnson we were at the-

The audience laughs. Kripke then notices the movement and starts mimicking Jared. Singer hunches down. Jensen starts laughing to himself while looking away.

Kripke: Wonderland. Offices. (Jared and Kripke stop. Audience laughs) And, uh.. Uh, yeah. And he- he came in and he had at such energy and- and just so, uh, (gestures) lived the character. (gestures) Just so was the guy. You know, it's a (gestures) cliche to say that but he really was. So, it was- it was an easy choice.

Bushman: (to Jared) And did you feel real good about it coming out?

Jared: Uvh, well (push his hair behind his ear) yeah. I-I-it was- it was b-by no means that short process, you know? I mean, that was sort of the beginning of a week or two week long (gestures) finding of scripts and characters. And I think the scripts are still being rewritten. I remember I'd seen a script and they’re like, (gestures) “This is changing. You know. Read the script, but (gestures) that's nothing to do with this.”

Kripke: (laughs) Right. Yeah. (audience laughs)

Jared: “It’s gonna change so much.” (gestures towards Jensen)

Kripke: (nods) This is true.

Jared: Which is much like it- it is nowadays. You know, (Kripke: Yeah) we get a script and they're like, “Okay, we're shooting this in a week, but it'll be a completely-“ You know? (audience giggles) (gestures) It’s just like- it-it can always can get better. And- and everybody's always working hard (flings his hand) up to the very last second, you know? Till they call action. (points up) People are working here. People are working in Canada. Just, you know, sprinting.

•(19:22)- PaleyFest06;Q4B- Auditioning for Sam and Dean (Jensen)

Bushman: Okay. (Jared nods) Jensen, what was your experience?

Jensen: (resting his head on his fist, briefly points to Jared) Pretty much the same.

Jared immediately fake sleep-snores and leans his head on Jensen’s shoulder. Kripke and the audience laugh. Jensen smirks. Jared sits up, laughing, and reaches for his water.

Jensen: Uhhh

Jared: Well said Jensen.

Jensen: (rubs his chin, laughs, sits up) Yeah. (rubs his hands) Uh, w-well, (thumbs to Kripke) like-like Eric said, they- they had originally brought me in for, uh, for the role of Sam. And, uhm, I- I knew David Nutter very well. Uh, I-I worked on, uh, testing for some- a number of pilots, um, before that. So, I-I felt very comfortable with him and with his recommendation to me coming in. And he feel good about it. (gestures) And I had a conversation with him on the phone before I come- before I came in and just he kind of gave me a spiel about Sam and, uh, (rubs his mouth) and what he thought. And- and then I read the script. And-and I was just like, “W-what about Dean?” (audience laughs.) “I liked Dean.” (audience laughs) “He's funny.” (audience laughs)

And-and, uh, it's- but (gestures) I, you know, I study for Sam. And-and I went in there and I actually kind of studied for (rubs his tear duct) Dean a little bit too just in case. And, um, I went in there and I read for Sam. And-and, uh, like Eric said. And they were like, you know. They were pleased with it. And then.. went home that evening and got a phone call and he said, “Well, uh- uh, there's this guy, Jared, uh, Pada- Pada- something-” (audience laughs)

Jared: I said Pada-something.

Jensen: (nods) Pada-something. (Smiles)

Jared: Pada-something

Jensen: and uh (grins)

Jared: Pada-some- (laughs)

Jensen: “And-and-and they really ar-are liking him” (gestures) “for-for one of the brothers.” And I'm like, “Okay.” So, of course I look him up online (audience laughs) and I'm like (throws up his hand) “He’s- he’s-“

Jared: (to the audience) He thought I was hot. (audience laughs and claps)

Jensen: He’s- (Jared laughs and scratches his head) “This guy's smoking hot.” (Jared leans back and laughs clapping his hands) “I can't play his brother and-“ Uuum, no. And-and-and- and then they said- (Jared facepalms) they'd said, “But would they like to bring you back in for Dean.” And, I of course was.. very excited about it and I came back in. (Jared clears his throat) And-and I was thrilled. So, uh, (gestures) that's kind of how it all. (gestures)

Bushman: Sut- So by the time you guys actually performed together you had already had the parts. They weren't auditioning-

Jensen: Well, no. We hadn't- we didn't have it- we didn't have it (gestures), uhh, officially.

Jared: (leans forward, to Kripke) Did we? (Jensen leans forward)

Kripke: No. We had-

Jensen: We had to do the-

Kripke: We were the on- (nods his head towards J2) they were the only actors we brought in to network. Because we- (gestures) You have to have a network audition.

Jensen: Formality of the network.

Jared: It’s usually a really terrifying process of (Jensen: Yea.) sort of (Jensen: Yeah.) these guys and gals at you audition with all year long. And it's five people that you're very, very afraid of, sitting in the room with you going for the same part. (Looks at Jensen) And when we got there it was like, “Hey.” “Hey.” “Where's everybody?” “Uh, there is nobody.”

Jensen: “Just you and me pal.” (audience laughs)

Kripke: Right. (briefly turns to Bushman) Yeah.

Jensen: And, uh-

Jared: We started (mimics writing) typing numbers down on a page- (shakes his head) I’m just kidding.

Jensen: Yeah, well (gestures) we went in and-and-and (scratches tear duct) that was yeah that was the first time we actually met. (gestures) And then we (gestures) (Jared: mhm) did a scene together, uh, for a- a-a roomful of executives and, uh, that was that.

Bushman: Okay.

Jensen: (points at Jared) and we’ve hated each other ever since. (reaches for his water) (audience laughs)

Jared: (nods) Yeah. (turns to Jensen) I poisoned your water, so.

The audience laughs. Jensen pauses and stares at his cup. Audience laughs. Jensen inspects his cup by slightly tilting it. He shrugs, takes a drink, and then sets his cup back down on the table.

Kripke: It’s a little unnerving. (Jared laughs)

•(22:09)- PaleyFest06;Q5A- SPN Start (Kim Manners)

Bushman: How about everyone on the panel? Kim, we could start with you and Ben. Talk about how you became involved with, uh, Supernatural.

Manners: I read for Sam. (most of the panelist and the audience laugh)

Jared: (throws his hands up) did everybody read for Sam or?

Manners: Well, David Nutter, who directed the pilot, is a good friend. He did season 1 of “X-files” And, uh, he called and asked if I would do a favor and, uh, come in and do one episode. Because I was kind of semi-retired after X Files. Uh, (nodding) very semi-retired. (audience laughs) And I, uh, came in did a show, uh, called “Dead in the Water,” uuh, enjoyed myself fell in love with, uh, (points to J2) Jan and Dean or is it Sam and Dean? (Jared and audience laugh. Singer pours himself some water.) Uhm, and I was driving home to my home in Missouri and they called me and said, uh, “We want you to come on as a part of the team.” And I turned around and here I am. So.

Jensen: Thank God.

Manners: And I’m having a good time.

Jared: (nods) Yeah. Thank God.

Manners: Yeah.

Kripke: Yeah, I don't know what we’d do without Kim up there. He's unbelievable.

Shiban: (nods) Yeah.

Bushman: Kim, uh, John.

Manners: I know whatchu do, you get another guy. (most of the panelist and the audience laugh)

Shiban: No, there is no other guy.

Jensen: No.

Kripke: Not true. No other guy.

Jared: There's no other guy.. named Kim.

Manners: (nods) Yep. (audience laughs) (points towards Jared and then clears throat) You know if this whole thing fails you guys can go right into stand-up. (audience laughs)

Jensen: Yea. (nods) (Jared claps his hands laughing) (points at Jared) I don't want to stand up to him another time. (audience laughs) I got to stand up on apple boxes all the time. (audience laughs)

Jared: (scratches ear) I'm pretty lazy. I’d rather sit. (Manners and audience laugh)

Bushman: John how did you-

Jared: (points to Jensen) Meanwhile! What-what (Shiban: Meanwhile?) what he- want he- what he doesn't know- what he didn't know about this whole process is that after we had him direct, uh, the- I guess it was our fourth episode we had: (counts his fingers) “the Pilot” (Jensen: yep.) with David Nutter, “Wendigo” with David Nutter, “Hookman” with David Jackson, (Manners: and then) and then (points at Manners) Kim came in.

And immediately I think from day one we were on the phone with everybody. (Manners takes a drink) (gestures) We were on the phone with (thumbs to his left) Peter and (points to Eric) with Erik and saying, “This guy is incredible.” (gestures) “Sw-Who is this guy?” (Manners sets his glass back down) And David Nutter had sort of given him this very.. sort of mysterious.. “You'll love Kim,” kind of sentence (audience giggles) at the very beginning.

Because we were going over this list of seven dir-

Jensen: Yes, the Jedi (waves his hand)

Jared: Very Jedi. (audience laughs) Yeah it was like-

Jensen: You’ll love him.

Jared: (mimics reading a script) “Who is Kim- Who is this guy?” “Oh, (waves hand) I knew him from this.” (mimics reading a script) “Who is Kim Manners?” (nods and waves hand) “You'll love Kim Manners.” (audience laughs) And sure enough, we were like, (double takes) “What?” And, um and he- and he- (his mic clip falls off) came on. And he was just incredible. (picks up mic by hand and talks directly into it.) And he was just incredible. (Jensen takes off his mic and hands it to Jared) And um, (nods to Singer) Can I- (reaches for Singer’s mic) Can I borrow? (audience laughs)

Singer: Sure. Yeah (But Jared doesn't take it and takes back his hand)

Shiban: Wow.

Jared: And, uh, (hands Jensen back his mic) And so we- w-we, uh, we basically begged and pleaded (J2 attach their mics back on to their shirts) to get him, um-

Manners: (fake mourning voice) A job! (throws his hands up) (Shiban pats his back) Just a job. (Jared: A job.) It’s all I wanted. (audience laughs)

Jared: He was hungry. (Manners laughs while rubbing his brow) He was, you know. He kept trying to bite my arm. (audience laughs) I was really worried about him (laughs).

Bushman: Yeah, I don't want to embarrass Kim, but what was so incredible about him?

Manners: about- (Bushman: about-) Who?

Jensen: Well, I-I think that- I think that, uh-uh, Jared and I just- w-we just responded well to him. I mean, he-he directed in a fashion that-that, uh, we really liked. And, uhm.. You know, it was kind of a set where guys could be guys. (thumbs at Manners) And he wasn't someone who-who directed, you know, behind a (throws hands up) screen with a (makes a phone hand gesture) telephone somewhere in LA, and was like, you know, (gestures and mimics a LA director) “Do it over and over. And then a closed up and a close up and let's get out of here and move on in the next set.” He was- (Singer reaches for his water) he was in there.

And-and you know a-a story about another, uh, episode that he directed, “Bugs,” uh, (Manners shakes his head) this was a-a scene where we had to get in (Manners mimics putting a gun in his mouth. the audience laughs) to a room with-

Manners: (turns to Jensen and waves) s-sorry.

Jensen: Yeah, no that’s-

Jared: It’s alright.

Jensen: I mean, ah, you know we get in this-this tiny little room with 65,000 bees and, uh, (Jared: ?Billions?) (gestures) the whole camera crew and (gestures) the sound crew (Manners laughs. Shiban smiles) and (gestures) then everybody's got (gestures) full bee outfits on. (audience chuckles) Then they're like, “Alright, Jared, Jensen, hop on in.” (audience laughs) And, uh-

Jared: And don't swat them, ‘cuz it makes them angry.

Jensen: And, Yeah. And I'll-and I’ll give it to Kim. He said, “You know what? If-if you guys don't have bee suits on. I'm not either.” And he went in there with, uh, (Jared: Right.) shorts and a t-shirt and a monitor.

Kripke?: Wow.

Jensen: And sat down on a box and directed us from inside the room (Manners silently laughs) with bees crawling all over our faces. (Manners and Shiban nod)

Kripke: Woah.

Jensen: It's just- it's-it that- it's that kind of relationship with Kim.

Bushman: Okay.

The audience cheers and then claps. Shiban and Jared clap. Manners briefly salutes two fingers to the audience.

•(26:04)-PaleyFest06;Q5B- SPN Start (John Shiban)

Bushman: John, how'd you get involved?

Shiban: Uh, I was going through the, uh, annual ritual of staffing season. Uh, I had a-a pilot that didn't go. So, I was available and reading all the pilots and taking meetings. And.. and read the script. Aaand loved it. Uh, and met Eric and loved him.

Kripke: Awww. (audience aw’s)

Shiban: Annnd- (smiles) I know. Aaand-

Kripke: John’s my guy. (audience laughs, Shiban, Jared and Manners smile)

Shiban: Yeah, it’s that. It’s true. Um, and, uh-uh, eh- there are a lot of- Uh, you know, I spent a long time on the “X-Files” and, uh, (gestures) I’m-I'm offered a lot of.. (gestures) scary television shows every year. It's like, (gestures) “Will you do this. Will you-“(Bushman: Yeah) And this one just struck me right away. Ehh, especially (gestures) when I finally saw the- the-the cut of the pilot.

Because it had those two things that I think (briefly pets his beard) you need to have a successful show like this. One is a great franchise, (gestures) which is the engine that runs the show. The idea that the two brothers on the road trip with a very personal agenda, eh-uh, is just great. And you can imagine- I can see instantly five years of suffering for these guys-

Jared nods. The audience chuckles. Jensen dramatically throws his head back. Jared smirks and nods. Kripke?, and audience laugh.

Shiban: And, uhhh, episode after episode. Uhh, and the second thing honestly is- is, uhh, is casting.. and chemistry. And chemistry is something you can't (rubs his hand) manufacture. And these guys have it. And they're so great to write for and they're so fun to write for.

Jensen slowly looks at Jared. Jared with a pressed smile, looks back. Audience woo’s and laughs. Shiban shrugs. Jared moves his face closer and puckers his lips. Audience laughs. Jensen shakes his head no and points to the audience. Jared stops halfway and looks down laughing to himself, and then looks up scratching his nose with a big smile. The audience laugh and clap. Shiban and Manners are smiling.

Jared: Worth a try. Worth a try.

Shiban: Yeah. (Jared chuckles) So, I said, “Yeah. I'm coming up.”

•(27:34)- PaleyFest06;Q5C- SPN Start (Bob Singer)

Bushman: Okay. Bob, how about you?

Singer: (Jared laughs) (gestures to J2) I-Can I just watch them, I don’t. (J2, Manners, and Audience laugh) Uubm, t-they had actually made this pilot. And, uh, I saw the pilot and, uh, really liked it a lot. And I think, uh, what the studio wanted was, um- (gestures) After they saw it and I got picked up, and the studio one point probably said to themselves-

Singer holds up his hands but then stops when audience starts laughing, raising an eyebrow.

Jared: (laughs) Just keep it (unintelligible)

Kripke: (opens his hands) You can't get anything done.

Jared: I can’t- (sets down his glass and then repositions himself)

Singer: (gestures to J2) This is what it's like to direct them too. (audience and Kripke laugh) Uhh- uh, the studio said, “Well, we-we-we can't give ff-40-plus million dollars to Eric Kripke.” And-(shrugs)

Kripke: (laughs) Yeah. (Jared laughs and claps his hands) Very true. (laughs)

Singer: And let him run wild. So, they said, “What we need i-is” (shrugs) “You know, some-”

Audience laughs. Singer stops and briefly looks to his right and up. Audience laughs. Singer rubs his chin and closes his eye laughing to himself. Kripke scratches his lip, looks at Singer, and laughs.

Singer: (shakes his head and then looks up at Kripke) This is so hard. (rubs his brow) (Kripke, audience, and Jared laugh)

Singer leans and reaches over and briefly covers Jared’s face, then returns to his original position. Jared laughs. Jensen is holding a glass of water and reaching for another.

Shiban: These people are very tired.

Jared: Yeah. (laughs)

Singer: Um. So, they thought they needed some, uh, you know, uh, a-a-an experienced hand to guide the young man through these rocky waters. (Jared laughs) The young- the young man of course felt what do I need this old fart for. (Jared and audience laughs)

Kripke: No way. (Singer laughs) He-

Singer: Um, anyway (gestures) we met and we met a number of times. And, um, finally our-got comfortable enough with me for, uh, for us to join up and, uh-uh, partner on this thing. And, um, (shrugs) it-it's interesting because I mean we are sort of from different generations. (gestures) And we approach, uhm, (gestures back and forth) drama in kind of a different way.

Um, but (gestures) as we sort of work together we found (gestures) that we always we really arrived (Kripke nods) at the same place even though kind of the methods (gestures) are a little different of how we get there. And it's a-

Bushman: Can you explain what you mean when you say that (Singer sits up) coming from different generations you approach drama in different ways?

Singer: Well, I don't know if that's a generational thing but I'm very, eh..

Kripke: Sober. (audience and Singer laugh) (Shiban?: And uh) compared to the drunk.

Singer: (nods) There's that, yeah.

Shiban?: (?low court?)

Singer: Um…eh- t-t-this is so boring, but, um, (audience giggles) for, um- I-I-I kind of come in (waves his hand) everything from a character standpoint of view. It’s-it's all about character to me. And I'll kind of (gestures) let the plot work itself out given (Kripke nods) what the characters are-are gonna do.

And what I'm interested in the scenes is how.. that, you know, it drives the plot. But I'm most interested in how the characters react to it. Umm (scratches brow) and-and-and so the (laughs) stories I do (wiggles his hands up in the air) to tend to get a little like-like this but (shrugs) the character stuff is probably interesting.

Eric really works very, very hard on the stories, um, and gets the plot down. And knows that once his plot is good the-the character stuff will come naturally to that. (Kripke nods) So, we sort of go-go like this (Kripke nods) when we're in the room together. And we’ll arrive at that place which both things are serviced. And-and-and I think you- we’re really sort of one voice now (Eric nodding: mhm) that we-we rarely disagree on stuff. And it's a- (shrugs) You know, I've worked alone for a long time, so it's kind of really cool to have a partner. (shrugs)

Eric: (looks at Bushman and nods) Yeah. And (points to Singer) tah-tah blow smoke up his ass for a minute. (audience laughs) He brings a depth, uh, and-and maturity of care- of character of just depth to the drama that I could not do, you know? It-Me on me alone like is “Boogieman.” (Bushman and audience laughs) And.. and.. and like all of a sudden with him like, you know, we have a-a show where you have these characters that are psychologically rich and true and-and-and- and Bob is-is behind huge amounts of that. So, uh, we- (shakes his head) this show would not succeed, uh, at all without him. So.

Singer: Aw.

Kripke: Aw.

Audience aw’s. Singer leans over and rests his head on Kripke’s chest. Kripke holds him for a sec.

Jared: Aw. (Audience claps)

Shiban: Come on give him a kiss, would yah?

Singer: (turns towards J2) You guys can do it. We can do it.

Jared: No, it’s alright like that.

Jensen: Hey. Hey.

Manners: You guys wanna mow the lawn?

Jensen: Yeah. Around the curtains?

•(31:04)- PaleyFest06;Q6- SPN Mythology + Formula (Shiban, Kirpke)

Bushman: Let me ask one more question before I- before I open this up. But this is for the writers mostly. Um, which I guess is Eric and John. But, um- you know, Eric, you've been quoted, um, as saying that, uh, you know this show differs from a lot of the other, uh, suspense or supernatural shows that you (Kripke nods) say there, because you don't want to get involved so much in those long drawn-out stories or-or the mythology so much as you just- I don't know whether these are accurate quotes but you want to, um, just focus on scaring people and on the- on the urban, uh, folklore and-and so on and just scaring people.

But, um, I think I-I- speaking for myself, and-and maybe some people out here too, I find the mythology, uh, with the-the kids with their mom.. (Kripke: mhm.) and their dad, and, uh- um, you know, one of the really compelling parts of this story. So, um, I'm wondering how you just- an-an-and, you know, you start to see even with the last episode that-that (Kripke nods) aired last Tuesday. You're starting to see you guys are coming back to that. (Kripke nods: mhm)

Um, and I'm wondering how do you decide when it's time to sort of veer away from what “X-Files” used to call the “monster of the week” story and come back to the.. mythology of the show. So it's really for John and Eric. How do you decide when it's time to do that or-

Kripke: John?

Shiban: Uh, two things I made a lot of painful, uh, hair-pulling discussions and arguments and when should we when shouldn't we. But part of it is driven to, by just the nature of television you want to save some of your big.. moments for sweeps. And so you kind of.. work the season around that. Works a actually a very nice five or six episodes that are.. (finger quotes) “non-mythology” and then you can- you can pull the Mythology back. And, uh, and, uhh, again do the nature television. You want to end the season with some- something astounding.

And, uh, (gestures to Singer) also going to back to what Bob was saying, eehh, the mythology is all about character. It's all about.. what the boys are going through and family. (shrugs) And, so that's where we are going to head when we want to do something spectacular. So. (Singer drinks his water)

Kripke: Yeah. we- we had a- we have. And surprisingly have stuck to it. We have a, uh, a-a m-mythology plan for season one. We also have, y-you know God willing a pickup, we have mythology plans for season two and season three. But.. we have this plan of where the story goes in-in- (audience starts cheering) Yeah!

Shiban: On the CW. (Jensen is holding out a hand)

Kripke: On the CW!

Jensen: (to Shiban) When do we get to see this? (Shiban whispers to Jensen)

Kripke: Um, and-and so, you know, it was sort of the plan, which is the first.. (Jensen elbows Shiban while laughing, then Shiban keeps whispering to Jensen) seven ur- sev- about, really, the first seven (Jensen throws his head back and softly laughs) episodes you wanted to be the self-enclosed stories so you could kind of pick up new viewers. And then you start threading in a little bit more mythology.

But I think it's a balance. Because, I mean, it's my own just, you know, kind of personal taste, which is- I mean, I like a- you know, I want a satisfying story every week too. And-and um, you know, I mean “Lost” is (waves hand) an untouchable show. I mean, it's an- it’s-it's a (waves hand) brilliant and unbelievable show, but I-I- I find the endless mystery, my own, taste frustrating.

Bushman: mhm

Kripke: And- and if you're going to give ongoing mystery- (audience claps) Alright, people who believe. And, if you're going to give ongoing mystery, at least give, like, a rollicking badass story… apart from it that can have a beginning middle and end. And you can be satisfied. And the good guys can win. And you and you can have the experience being told a story. (waves hand) And then, you know, thread in the ongoing mystery.

So, I think it's-it's-it's keeping a lot of different plates spinning. And it's not- it shouldn't be any one thing er-or another.

•(34:18)- PaleyFest06;Q7- SPN Ending, Pre-finale thoughts (Kripke)

Bushman: Do you know where the story ends?

Kripke: Um, I do actually. Yeeeah.

Bushman: Does anyone else on this panel know where the story ends?

Singer: Yeah, but we tell you, we have to kill you.

Kripke: Yeahh. Yeah. (Audience and Bushman laugh. Jared smiles) I mean, it's hard it- because you never know when you're gonna get cancelled or if you're gonna go, you know, 37 years like “Gun Smokers” (audience laughs) Or something. (Jensen chuckles)

Shiban: Oh, god. Please.

Kripke: But, uh.. Yeah.

Jared: Oh no.

Manners: The boys are in walkers. (mimics walking in a walker)

Jensen: (gruff voice) Sam! (audience laughs)

Kripke: Yeah. (nods) Right. (Kim laughs) (laughs) They’ll finish up the season and then they'll slowly die.

Jensen: Yeah. (laughs)

Audience laughs. Jensen is scratching his forehead smiling. Jared is drinking his water.

Kripke: And, uh.. So but-but yes we have, you know, really a-a-a fi- if-if I could somehow find out what the last season was going to be, or-or a five, six year plan, I mean, I sort of know that, you know, the-the final, you know, battle as it were t-that all shapes up. And, uh- But yeah, you know, it’s sort of-

Bushman: We’re gonna have to wait.

Kripke: Yeah.

Bushman: Okay. Let's take some questions from the audience. (holds hand over eyes and looks at the audience) Um, I'm gonna.. to call on two people, um, first question, a second question. Please wait for the mic, because this event is being taped, so we need to be able to hear you.

Uh, (points to the back of the audience) okay there's one all the way in the back over there, and (points his other hand towards the left of the audience) then there's one in a green shirt right down here.

(points to the green shirt again) We can start down here with the green shirt and then go to the back question.

•(35:38)- PaleyFest06;Q8A- Location Significance: John Winchester in Sacramento (Shiban)

Fan: Sorry, I had to take out my gum. Hi, um, I'm- Let me just say, I'm originally from Sacramento so I w-I wanted to know if there's any significance with their dad, John, being in Sacramento twice or just random or.. spoilery or.. Shh

Manners?: Joohn.

Kripke: You wrote it, John. Why did you use Sacramento? (audience laughs)

Fan: It’s-

Shiban: I don't want to give it away, yet. (Kripke? laughs)

Jensen: So, yes there is.

Kripke: No there’s-

Shiban: (points at Jensen) I'm gonna tell you either. (Jensen throws his hands up)

Jensen: I want to know.

Kripke: Yeah. Why?

Shiban: After. After.

Jensen: Ah, thanks a lot.

Singer: Tickets for a Sacramento Kings (Jensen: Yes.) game. Eh. (shrugs) (J2 laugh)

Bushman: So, their-their- the answer is that there is, but you're not gonna say what it is.

Shiban: Exactly.

•(36:12)- PaleyFest06;Q8B- Location Significance: Lawrence Kansas (Kripke)

Bushman: Okay. And speaking of location is there any significance to Lawrence Kansas? That it started in Lawrence Kansas?

Kripke: Um-

Shiban: (points to Kripke).. I’d have to give that to him.

Kripke: Uh, I would say, well, uh-uh i-if anyone does a, uh-uh, w-

Jared: In other words, yes.

Kripke: Yes. (audience laughs. Jared and Manners laugh.) There-there is and-and the-and the one thing I'd say is, because we tend to be really research oriented in our show (Bushman: uh-huh) and about American urban legends and there's a- there's a very famous, uh, urban legend, uh, near Lawrence Kansas. Um, that, uh-

Bushman: That somehow factors?

Kripke: Yeah. (to the audience) You know, if you guys go home and do Google searches on Lawrence (Bushman: Right) Kansas and stuff will come up. (nods)

Bushman: Okay. (points to J2) Do you guys know what it is.. Jared and Jensen?

Kripke: I don't think I've ever told you.

Jared: (looks at Jensen) Y-yeah.

Jensen: Uh, yeah.

Jared: Good gosh. (blows)

Jensen: Yeah. Yeah. Of course. (nods and leans back to rub his chin) (Bushman, Kripke, and audience laugh)

Jared: I haven’t decided when I'm gonna tell Kripke what it is.

Jensen: Yeah. (audience and Kripke laugh)

Jared: I’m mean, honestly. Tell him, “Hey, uh-

Bushman: (laughs) Okay. In the back all the way.

•(36:58)- PaleyFest06;Q9- Fear “Paranormal” (Manners, Shiban, Jensen, Jared, Kripke)

Fan: Hi. Uh, I just want to say I'm from Texas too. So.

Kripke: Wooo!

Jensen?: (J2 raise their hands) woo! (audience laughs)

Fan: Anyway I had a question, um, for everybody. What urban legend or folklore really does scare you guys?

Kripke: (points to Manners) (Manners shrugs) Kim?

Manners: Um, mm- nothing scares me. (audience and Shiban laughs)

Jared: That's true.

Manners: I direct television.

Jensen: Yeah, I believe it.

Manners: And I- so (shrugs) (audience laughs) You know, if-if you- if you can live through that nothing scares yah. (shrugs) Really.

Shiban: Good answer.

Manners: Yeah. Well, it’s true. (Shiban laughs) What scares you John? ..Late scripts? (laughs)

Shiban: You do- Yeah. (audience laughs) Yeah. You do. Yeah. When you call me and say, “Where's the damn script?” (audience chuckles) That's frightening. (audience chuckles. Shiban and Manners take a drink)

Bushman: Any-any urban-

Shiban: (bumps Jensen’s arm) What about you guys?

Jensen: (shrugs) I-d-I'm dealing with him all season man. (Kripke and audience laugh) I’m scared of them all. (Kripke: All of em.)

Shiban: What about those bees?

Jensen: Yeah, bees that’s what I’m s-

Jared: You know I have a c- I'll- I’ll say something. I- uh, my daddy used to make me watch a show called, “Shadow Man,” or something, when I was growing up. And it was about a shadow that lived under this kid's bed. And, uh, he was sort of- (audience giggles) What's that? (audience giggles) (Jared smiles) And anyways and, uh, (audience laughs) it was his buddy.

Shiban: And he’s here tonight.

Jared: he wasn’t very popular in school. And so the shadow man started kind of getting all the bullies for him. And then one day came another.. kid’s shadow man got- (sniffs) Yeah it’s probably not as scary as it seems. (laughs, ducks and scratches his head) (most of the panelist and the audience laugh) (hides face behind his jacket)

Kripke: (thumbs to Singer) You wanna? You?

Singer: (laughs) Go ahead. (audience aw’s)

Kripke: (gestures to the audience) Someone has to give her a straight answer. (Jared: Y-yeah.) Hook-Hookman freaked me out when I was a kid. The killer with the hook. All the different stories of the killer with the hook of, uh, you know, the-t-the “Aren't you glad-” “Aren't you glad you didn't turn on the light?” I thought was really cool. And there's, uh, (gestures) the licked hands. If you ever heard the licked hand, which is a really cool one. (briefly looks down) And um, so (gestures) like that- that was always, you know, really sort of- sort of freaky for me.

Bushman: Okay, let's take two more questions. (points to the audience) Um, we'll get this one down here and there's one all the way in the back. Right- right next to you. Right… (points) Go ahead.

•(38:54)- PaleyFest06;Q10- Continuity Mistake “4 years vs 2 years at Stanford”

Fan: Um, in the pilot we know that, uh, when Sam wanted to go to college John told him to get lost. And he's in as presumably his fourth year because he's interviewing for Law School. Um, but d-he says that he hasn't talked to Dean in two years. Is there an answer to what happened two years ago? (Kripke is smiling and looking down at the other panelists)

Jared: Uhhh, y-you mean does that-

Kripke: I-I actually-

Shiban: Eric.

Kripke: (looking down at his lap) I have an answer to that. (nods) (audience laughs)

Fan: Do we get to know?

Kripke: Well, I know you're supposed to.. You know, (gestures to Shiban) do what Shiban does (Shiban nods) which is kind of go, “you'll find out.” (audience laughs. Shiban smiles and nods) But, uh, fact of the matter was is, uh, it-ii- (gestures) you know, these things happen so fast and furious. (mimics writing) And you’re- and- and that it was actually a mistake. (audience giggles)

Shiban: Oh no. (Shiban whispers to Jensen and then Manners)

Kripke: We-we wanted it-d.. Jared is or Sam's character supposed to be a junior in college and starting the interviewing process for, uh, the interviewing process for law school. (Jensen whispers to Shiban) And, uh, so hasn't seen him since he left- So he spent his freshman year and his sophomore year away from Dean and hasn't seen Dean. Then this is beginning of junior year. (briefly looks at the panelists) This is.. fall of junior year.

So, it's been technically two years as he's beginning (gestures) th-the process. But, because, I think.. Because what happens, eh.. You know, you guys, you know, the-the you know- (gestures) I’m-I'm-I’m lying, (audience chuckles) like, sort of putting it all- Eh, because what happened 22 years ago he-he was slightly older than a junior should be. So, no one sort of bought that he was a junior and, uh, (Jared smiles. Audience giggles) so there's a (gestures) lot of discussion of these two “lost years.” And you’re just- and I just like, (hunches down covering his mouth) “he he.” (shrugs) “Like, just a mistake.” (panelists and audience laughs)

Jensen: (?Hey, uh, I really wanna back this.?)

Shiban: That’s right (unintelligible) (Jensen laughs)

Kripke: But hold on let me give the real answer. “You'll find ouut.” (Jared and audience laugh)

Shiban: (gives him a thumbs up) Now you're talking.

Bushman: Okay. In the back.

•(40:39)- PaleyFest06;Q11- Network Censorship “Gore” (J2, Kripke, Singer)

Fan: Are there any stories about, uh, t-the show being too scary. Like, do you do trade-offs with the network? Like, they say, “Well, you can have two seconds of this, you know, bloody face, if you do this or that.” (?:mhm)

Jared: Yeah.

Jensen: Yeah, we’ve run into a few-few times that season- this season. (looks at Kripke) Haven’t we?

Kripke: You talking about Night- The Night- the.. On Nightmare was the first time.

Singer: (looks at Kripke) Oh right. Yeah. Yeah, you get into strange dis-discussions of, um, “Can we not see the decapitated- decapitated head (rolling gesture) roll?” (audience and Kripke laugh) And then you start arguing about, “Well.. can it do a half a turn?” (audience and Kripke laugh) Then say, “Okay. You can do a half a turn but the blood gush can't be for two seconds. It has to be for once sec-” Uh- um, so those are ongoing discussions, but a-a-actually the network's been great. We really push the envelope (Kripke: Yeah) in-in every sense. And, uh, they let us get away with more than I thought they would.

Jensen: There was also the, uh, when-

Jared: The gun rig.

Jensen: Yeah, the gun rig with me when I- uh, when Dean was shot in the head.

Kripke: Yeah. The- Night-Nightmare- The episode “Nightmare” was the first and only time that we’ve ever had issues with standards and practices. And so, everything else they just were like, “Give us more.” And we- again we were shocked by that. But there-the-the- there's a scene where, it's a- it's a vision it doesn't really happen, but where Dean gets his brains blown out (gestures brain splat) (audience giggles) in “Nightmare” (audience laughs) and-and… (Kripke briefly looks to his left) And we actually rigged it. And we thought, like, you know- We rigged it so-

Jensen: Yeah, the rig was awesome.

Kripke: Yeah. You-you rigged it so (mimics the shot going through his forehead) the shot actually goes into his forehead and-and the blood explodes out the back (laughs) (audience laughs) on to the wall. And we're like, (makes an excited gesture) “Haha, this is our lead and we're just, you know.” But and-and-and- and network was like, “No way.”

Jensen: Yeah, this giant- this giant backpack filled with, like, grapes and-and corn syrup (audience ughs) and, uh, and- and it was this tube (partial turns and gestures at the curve of the back of his head) just kind of coming right- right out of the back and, uh, from the head on. And I had a little button in my hand. And they just yelled action. (mimics the scene) And, we timed it with a gunshot, and I hit the button, and gave reaction, and the whole wall went splatium.

Shiban: Yeah.

Kripke: Heheh

Singer: By the way-

Jensen: It was an awesome rig, but then they ended up having to cut to (box gesture) just the splat (Kripke nods) and then back to me with the hole in the head.

Singer: (point to his center forehead) Back to him with a hole. (Jensen: Yeah) But, the, uh, the director of that episode is here tonight, (pointing at the left side of the audience) sitting next to my wife as it is.

Jared: Where is he?

Kripke: Phil Sgriccia.

Singer: And- Phil Sgriccia.

Jared: Phil! (claps)

Kripke: Really good job. (audience claps)

Jared: Wooo!

Kripke: Stand up!

Singer: And, uh, when I looked at those dailies, uh, and I called Phil and I said- he said, “How are they? How are they? Is-” You know, because (swipes at Manners) Kim can tell you all us directors are.. so self-confident (Manners laughs) that we don't need constant approval or anything. (audience chuckles) Um- uh, he said- I said, “They're great, Phil. But what the hell are you doing?” (audience chuckles) And he said, “Well, you know, they look at that and they'll give me all the rest of the stuff.” So (gestures) (J2 and audience laugh)

Manners: We actually play a game with BSP broad-broadcast standards and practice where we cut the show and we cut it way too violent. (Kripke chuckles) So then they come in they go, “Well, you have to take out four frames of that shot.” And you go, “Oh god, not four frames.” “Yes, four frames.” So you take it out, but you always knew that you didn't need those four frames. (laughs) (audience laughs) So, we kind of stack the deck. (audience chuckles)

Bushman: (points) Okay, there's a question over there in the corner. (points) And there's one back there. Over there too.

•(43:56)- PaleyFest06;Q12- Paranormal on Set (J2)

Fan: Oh, okay. Um, well, we've had the question about what urban myths scare you. But for those of you who are actually on set regularly, has there ever been… you know, a blood splatter or that freaky scarecrow or anything that just really creeped you out just to be around on set even though you knew it was plastic or, you know, karo syrup or something?

Jared: I know one- and just one time randomly we're, uh, we're filming “Skin” the episode where (points at Jensen) he's a shapeshifter. (audience giggles) And we're inside this house- this brilliant house. (audience claps) Yeah. (Jared looks at Jensen and claps) It was a great episode. And, um, we were inside this house. And just this clock on the wall just up and leaned over and fell off. Just this round clock no one was near it. No one was (mimics hammer) hammering on the wall outside. It just kind of fell off and everybody sort of looked around. But instead of kind of going, “Who did that?” we're all just were like, (mimics scene) “Ignore it and go back doing business.” (audience laughs) Just tried- decided to not look into it any further. (audience chuckles) The way real brave people do it (audience laughs) this round.

Jensen: So, the, um, the show “Asylum,” uh, was.. (Jared: Oh, yeah.) Um. (Audience claps) (nods) Yeah. (claps) that was- that was shot in an actual abandoned, uh, mental institute and so.. Uh, the-the halls and the rooms and-and we're all very used at one point. (audience giggles) And-and, uh, you know, it said that-that-that- (gestures) the crew says not to go up to the fourth floor (?entrance?). (audience giggles) And, you know, don't-

And-and I remember we broke for lunch. And, uh, I thought I'd be (gestures), you know, clever and take a shortcut (nods then shakes his head) (audience laughs) I’d-I came down a stairwell and went into one door and it was just a (gestures) long dark hallway, because the-there's (Jared chuckles) no lights on. The only lights on it are what the-the film crew puts out. And, uh, that- I was like, (mimics looking back and forth in the hallway) “Well, it's not that long.” (audience laughs) “I can make it.” (audience laughs)

That freaked me out. (nods) (audience laughs)

Bushman: Okay.

Manners: (points at Jensen) Dean W-Winchester, ladies and gentleman.

Jensen: Yeah. Thank you. (Jared and Shiban clap. Audience claps and cheers)

Kripke: Goodnight. (Jensen bows) Afraid of nothing. (Shiban takes a drink. Jensen laughs)

Bushman: In the back over there. Yeah.

•(46:09)- PaleyFest06;Q13- Network Censorship “Sex” (Kripke)

Fan: Now that there's a new network that you're probably going to be moving to, the CW, are they gonna and loosen up and give us a little more NC-17 like we got the Jensen storyline the other week. (audience giggles and some woo)

Shiban: Bob? (Jared chuckles)

Jensen: I'm confused. (audience laughs)

Audience member: Next episode!

Fan: Sex.

Audience member: Sex.

Jensen: What?

Fan: Sex.

Audience member: The sex.

Jared: Oh right.

Jensen: Aaahh. (audience laughs) (adjusts his position, shrugs) How can I forget. (audience laughs) (leans forward to look at Kripke) Thank you for that, man. (audience laughs) (Jensen shakes his head, leans back and hides a laugh behind his hand)

Kripke: (briefly holds his hands up) Sure… Happy birthday Jensen.

Jensen: Yes. (nods)

Jared: (laughs) Happy birth-

Kripke: Um, yyou know, I mean, CW is huge on full frontal male nudity. (Jensen is looking down hiding his mouth behind his fist. Jared chuckles into a laugh and then claps and goes to take another drink. The audience screams and cheers.) Well, uh, I think there's a lot in store. (gestures) Stay tuned! (Jared laughs while drinking his water. Jensen laughs) (shrugs) You know, I mean, we'll give ‘em- you know, we'll give ‘em love interests and (Jared coughs) love stories as it's appropriate.

Jared curls up and coughs behind his arm. Jensen reaches over and pats Jared’s back. Audience laughs. Jared folds over and continues coughing. Jensen with his arm on Jared’s back, makes a “come here” motion towards the audience.

Jensen: We're gonna need it. (Kripke laughs)

Jensen continues to pat Jared’s back. Jared sits up, looks around and coughs one last time behind his fist.

Bushman: Um, okay. Uh, we’ll (points) take one there and one in the middle.

Jared: (wipes his eye and then his forehead) Oh jeez.

Bushman: (points) One down here and one in the middle. (nods) Yeah. Yeah. You just-

•(47:19)- PaleyFest06;Q14- Sam and Dean pre-series (Kripke)

Fan: Hi. Um, first of all thanks so much for being here. Um, if you guys are always like this, can I come work on your set? (laughs) (Manners laughs. Audience chuckles)

Jared: (throws his hands up) Yeah.

Fan: uh-

Jared: Thank y'all guys for being here. This is-

Jensen: Yeah. Thank you. (claps)

Jared: Yeah.

Manners: Thank you! (panelists clap)

Fan: No bother.

Jared: Honestly.

Fan: Um, so we came into this story, uh, when the boys are already adults. And I know there's a lot to explore in the future, but I was wondering about the past. Um, because I know that.. there's a lot of speculation about what their childhood (Jensen nods) was like growing up, (Jared nods) moving around. How much Miller time dad was doing. (Jensen nods: mhm) (Jared smiles. and audience chuckles) And how Sam and Jess met. Stuff like that. So, I was just wondering, um, if you were gonna explore that aspect of their lives?

Kripke: We just- Uh, it's funny you say that. We just yesterday, uhh.. Actually (points to the front row) I think, uh, I'm talking to Brad, who's at the network. I think you're getting a cut on Monday. (audience giggles) Um, of-of an episode that, uh, not only do the boys in-in present day, you know, deal with a creature, but, uh, (gestures) it's a creature they dealt with in the past. (gestures) And there's extensive flashbacks to, uh-uh, Sam and Dean. And John is there, you know, as the boys (•video skips•) children and dad and you get to see a, uh, an element of-of what their past was like or what their childhood was like. (Jensen nods)

Um, and it was- I really happy with how it turned out. And it- You know we won’t- We wanted to try it once. And I think it'll be happening a lot more. (gestures) Because there's this great (Manners and Jensen are leaning forward, looking at Kripke) 22 year window of-of what happened. And-and-and that's- there's a lot of story there that you can- you can flesh out. (nods then shakes his head) So, I think we're definitely to go there.

(nods and gestures) Because it's coming up in, uh, (briefly looks up) I think, uh, April, that episode. And it- I was really pleased with how it turned out. So, yeah. We’re really doing it-

Jared: Another positive is that if little Sam and little Dean filming, big Sam and big Dean are sleeping

Kripke: (laughs) Yeah. Right. (Jensen smirks. Audience laughs. Jensen holds up two thumbs.) (Jared: Soo-) So, there's that.

Jensen: This is good. This is good.

Jared: So, keep pushing yeah (rocks fist)

Jensen: Yeah, keep pushing.

Jared: Keep pushing.

Kripke: Yeah.

Jensen: (nods and raises eyebrows) Flashbacks.

Jared: Very important. (laughs and scratches back of his head) (audience chuckles)

Bushman: Okay. (points) There was a question there in the middle.

Fan: (off mic) Um, Dean always wears this like- (audience giggles)

Kripke: Aw.

Audience member: What?

•(49:06)- PaleyFest06;Q15- Samulet (Jensen, Kripke)

Fan: Oh, okay. (voice cracked giggle) (Manners laughs. Kripke smiles) Dean always (laughs)- Dean always wears a certain necklace does it mean anything?

Kripke looks down at Jensen. Jensen is leaning on his knees looking back.

Jensen: (to Kripke) You gonna hang me out to dry on this?

Singer: Oh yeah. (Jensen looks down. Jared laughs. Audience laughs.)

Kripke: I mean we can’t s- I mean it does but we can't…say.

Jensen: (looks at fan) Yeah. It-it-it does have significance and it- it’ll..(rubs his brow) it- but it we can't talk about it.

Kripke: Yeah. (laughs) (audience laughs) (Jensen rests his head on his hand)

Shiban: It's from Sacramento.

Jensen, Kripke, and the audience laugh. Jensen pats Shiban’s shoulder.

Bushman: That's a great question, though, that you picked up on that necklace. So. (Kripke: Yeah.) (Jensen nods. A few of the audience give woo’s.) Um-

Fan: (off mic) I always notice weird stuff. (audience giggles)

Bushman: Okay. I'm trying to spread ‘em out. Uhh. (points) You got somebody back there? Okay. (Points) And then this woman down here in the red shirt… (points) But go ahead in the back first.

•(49:54)- PaleyFest06;Q16- Special effects, Gag Reels (Jensen, Jared, Manners)

Fan: Um, I thought I heard you guys m-mention on a show one time you guys do green screen, blue screen, that kind of thing for special effects. Is that gotten a lot easier for you to do and kind of.. You know… fake it? (laughs) (audience laughs)

Jared: Yeah.

Fan: And, um, and the second part to the question was, uh, when the DVD set comes out are you guys gonna have a lot of.. behind the scenes jokes, cuz yeah this is funny. (audience laughs)

Jensen: We, uh, we-we actually just had a film crew on set with us, uh, this past week doing behind the scenes stuff for the DVD. (nods) So. (audience cheers and claps)

Um. (gestures) Going back to your first question the green screen and, uh, and stuff, we.. we do, do a lot of-

Jared: You-

Jensen: (leans back and looks at Jared) I said doo-doo. (Jared presses his lips. Audience laughs.)

Manners: He said doo-doo. (Jared smiles and shrugs)

Jared: He said doo-doo. (shrugs) (Jensen looks at the audience and briefly raises his eyebrows) (chuckles)

Jensen: (licks his lips and leans forward on his knees) Uumm.

Jared laughs. Manners laughs. Jared then throws his head back, laughing, and claps. Jensen closes his eyes and bits his lips. The audience laughs.

Jensen: We do (gestures) work a lot with- (Jared snorts)

Manners: Doo-doo. (Jensen looks over) (shrugs) (J2 laugh)

Jensen: (quickly sits back and points at Jared) Jared you can take this one. (Jensen stares at Jared with a smirk)

Jared: (laughing) Yeah. (sits up with his feet on the table) Uumm.. (claps his knee) as Kim and Jensen were saying, we doo-doo. (audience laughs) And, uh- No. We do- it was- it was- (puts his feet back on the floor) I guess it was a big learning process for everybody. Just- You know, it's-it’s a very interesting.. sort of task to be given to- Especially these kind of crazy either emotional sequences or these crazy physical sequences when they're like, “Alright. Now, um, you're in the woods.”(Jensen nods) “And, uh, you know, it's dark, and it's scary, and you're hearing things.”And then you look behind you and there's just this (gestures) big blue wall with (gestures) tape (audience chuckles) And, you know, a couple crew guys standing back there smoking cigarettes. (audience laughs) You know, cursing and.. showing off tattoos (audience giggles) And so it's-it's- it's, uh, I think I've- (briefly looks to his right, then gestures to the audience) speaking for myself, I-I hope I've gotten more of a hang of it.

Jensen: Aside from just the actual green-screen of it that w-we can just be in a normal set and-and they're going to, um- visual effects will-will then put in something (Jared: Right.) like, uh, “Phantom Traveler” with the, uh, (gestures) the smoke that would come out of the vents (Jared: Right.) and-and stuff like that. That's not something that we obviously see. Um.. so we have to pretend that it's there. And that there's no real green screen work going on there.

But, uh, there's also an episode coming up (thumbs to Manners) that Kim directed called, uh, “Shadows.” And we deal with, uh- (audience starts murmuring)

Kripke: Yeah, it just aired.

Shiban: It aired (?)

Manners: (to the audience) Well, what happened in “Shadow-” Did you see-

Jensen: (adjusts his seating position) I haven’t seen it. (audience and Kripke laughs)

Manners: (points to Jensen) He loves my work.

Jensen: Yeah. That’s right. And we hadn’t- (nods)

Manners: Uhh, If you remember the shot wheree Meg did the high fall (gestures)… (audience’s says yes) (shakes his head) they hung her six feet off the ground. And she was.. (gestures to his belt. Clip on mic falls in his lap) picked- Wah- we call it picked, with two wires on her hips. And she was looking up at the cabin or doing this (looks up and clawing at the sky). (looks down and pats for his mic.) Hello. (audience chuckles) (picks up mic from his lap) She was looking up at the camera doing this. (claws at the air with one hand) (audience laughs) And she just laid back and (leans back) she just laid out and flattened out. And they dropped her visually w-, uh, with the computer seven stories. She never went anywhere. That was all just.. in one place, I guess. True story. (clips mic to his jacket)

Jensen: And then when we ran up to the window.. she wasn't even there and we were actually staring at a.. a big.. red X.

Manners: yeah. (audience laughs)

Kripke: So, Jensen, does that mean that you guys actually have to act? (audience gives mixed reaction)

Jared: No, no, no. I'm actually not here right now.

Kripke: (chuckles and then to the audience) Oh, I’m kidding.

Jared: We're actually in Canada. (gestures) This is- this is-

Jensen: These are our body doubles (Jared and Singer chuckle)

Kripke?: yeah. (Jensen nods)

Bushman: Yeah, over here.

•(53:15)- PaleyFest06;Q17- Religion “Jensen,” Dean Winchester cellphone # (Jared, Jensen)

Fan: Um, actually I have two questions. The first one is, Jensen in a past interview he said you were a Christian. I was wondering is it hard to do this kind of show like.. having that background?

And the other question is in an episode, I don't remember which one it was, you gave the phone number what you're trying to reach your dad you're like, “Give me a call this is my number.” But whenever you call you can- you- y- it says, “This is Dean Winchester.” And it says, “Leave your coordinates.” Did you ever hear- like, you- Can you actually voice ‘em on there? Did you hear like- Did you have a lot of fans leaving messages at that number? (Jensen points to Kripke) Because it wasn't a five, five, five number.

It was very small to pick up on, because my sister and I we watch it- She watches it her place. I watch it at mine. (audience giggles. J2 smile.) And I was like “Did you see the number?” She's like, “Was it a real number?” And so anyway that was my question. (Jensen gives a one-handed shrug and then looks at Kripke. audience laughs)

Jared: If you want to actually call him it's 800-Wet-Legs. (Kripke laughs and audience laughs) So, that’s- this is- (Jensen leans over to talk in Jared’s ear)

Kripke: Don’t- don’t give out his number. (Manners laughs)

Jared: Oh, he changed- Oh, you changed it. (audience chuckles) Oh, scratch that. Scratch that. (scratches his head)

Jensen: Um, (readjusts his position) I’m lost.

Shiban: What was the question?

Jensen: What was the- what was the question? (picks up mic from lap) Wha?

Jared: Something about-

Manners: (leans over) You're a Christian!

Jared: (?subliminal worshiping?)

Jensen: (clips his mic back on his shirt) Uh, Yes. Okay. Uhhh, (gestures) Your first question. Uh, y-yes I-I was raised, uh-um, with a very religious family. (gesture) And-and in that, uh-um.. I mean, (open hands) what I do this is, you know.. W-we.. This is acting. (gestures) We're telling stories. I’m-I'm- I portray a character. Um, you know, does my grandmother cringe sometimes? (nods) Yeah. (smiles) (audience giggles) Um, but at the end of the day I'm-I'm, you know, it's- it's something that I'm cool with.

Uhh and, uh- and then as far as the- the-the phone numbers (gestures and looks at Kripke) and I think there’s even websites- there's a-a-

Kripke: Yeah. Yeah. When they called-

Jensen: (looks at fan) Email.

Kripke: Yeah, every so often.

Jensen: There’s actually been a (looks at Kripke) huge response to it.. from what I know.

Kripke: Yeah. Yeah. We got a couple. Wuh-uh- I listened- I mean we couldn't listen all of them, but there’s was a couple thousand voicemail messages. (audience chuckles) (Jensen: Yeah.) of people who called. And-and, uh, I mean I listen to you know maybe, you know, thirt- twenty or thirty of them.

Jared: (to Jensen) Two thousand (Jensen smiles)

Kripke: But some of our hilari- They're like, you know, (dramatic voice) “Sam and Dean! There- there's a ghost in my attic!” (audience and Jared laugh) “You have to come quick!” (Shiban coughs) Those are- those are my favorites.

Jared: (laughs) That’s funny.

Jensen: (scratches head) That's awesome. (audience giggles. Jared laughs)

Bushman: Alright, uh- (more hands in the audience are raised)

Jared: Woah.

Jensen: Woah.

Jared: Wow. (audience chuckles)

Jensen: Yes.

Jared: Can you do that again? (Jensen and audience laugh)

Bushman: Um, take one all the way in the back up there. And one right here in the front.

•(55:39)- PaleyFest06;Q18- Impala 67 (Jensen, Manners)

Fan: Hi. (Bushman: ?second?) My son and I are really big fans. And you guys are great. And I want to know what kind of car it is you drive. It's- it's great.

Jensen: It's a, uh, 67 (Jared?: Impala) Chevy Impala. (J2 nod. Audience cheers and claps)

The audience starts yelling out, “Metallicar!” Jensen smiles. Kripke laughs. Jensen laughs. A few more Meallicar response are said.

Jensen: The Metallicar.

Manners: They’re gonna sell well.

Jensen: Yeah. (shrugs) There it is. And we've got about- (looks around)

Manners: We've just bought our fifth one.

Jensen: (nods) Fifth one. We got about five of them. Yeah.

Jared: that's why you can't find him on eBay. Cuz we’ve been buying- (audience laughs) (Jared takes a drink)

Jensen: Yeah. We have them all. (nods)

Jared: (while drinking) mhm (sets down glass)

Bushman: Right there.

•(56:15)- PaleyFest06;Q19- SPN Music (Kripke, Singer)

Fan: Okay so let's talk about the music.

Jensen: Yeeesss. (audience and Jared clap)

Fan: Yes. Yes. Alright, I grew up in the 70s. I grew up on the mullet rocks. So, yeah. Let's talk about where the inspiration.. came from with that.

Kripke: That.. That was something that was r-really important to me, uh, coming into the show, coming into the pilot. Um, you know, I'm from a small town in Ohio and (gestures) this is the music I listen to. And I was a huge, huge Zeppelin fan. And.. and-and so, ehhh- You know, and so, uh, (gestures) when it came time to write the pilot I-I- and-and produced it, it was- it was so important to me that it had that music. And- and not have, you know, (gestures) all-all due respect to my beloved Network, not half the music that's usually on that network. (audience chuckles)

Um, and-and it was so important to me. (gestures) I was so like rabid about it that in the original draft of the pilot I even wrote in the- in the script. (mimics writing) I wrote, “Cue music. And you can take your anemic alternative pop and shove it up your ass.” (audience laughs, claps and cheers. Manners and Shiban laugh)

And, uh.. and the r- and the reason I wrote the scene when they're in the-in the pilot

Jensen: (? It’s how I knew??) (Jared nods and laughs) (briefly raises his eyebrows)

Kripke: they have the scene where they're talking about tapes and he's like, you know; ac/dc, you know, uh, Motorhead, Metallica. And the reason I wrote that in is I said, “Well, if we shoot that and it gets from the pilot then we have to use my music.” (audience laughs) (frantically gestures) “Because it's already in the- it's already in the sh- it’s in the show and they can't, you know. They can't put in some, you know, Sarah McLaughlin in the- in the- in post.” (Manners laughs)

So, uh- So I- You know, this is- y-you know- (turns to Singer) And we’ve-we've had a great time I mean in-in- with, you know, Phil also in post-production and with Bob (gestures) of figuring out these songs. And coming in one morning and being like, “Oh! Billy Squier! What about Billy Squier?” (Singer chuckles. The audience laughs.)

And, uh- and I think it's like a real signature to the show. And-and is-is the real- (gestures) plus it's Midwestern. You know, it's like two guys in- (thumbs to J2) from Kansas in a muscle car. (shrugs) And this is the music they listen to. So, um, but it's- I- I mean I- I love it. There-there was- The other night was Joe Walsh “Rocky Mountain Way” (Jensen nods) and I'm just laughing my ass off. (audience laughs) “Yeah! I Rocky Mountain Way on The WB! It’s-“ (Jensen and audience laugh)

Singer: It also, uh- It also spreads. Because one of the editors, uh, said to me- And he's a very hip guy and really good musically. (laughs) He- I walk into his room. We were going through songs. I said, “Well, do this song. Do this song.” (unintelligible) Two days there I walk in, he goes, “Do you know Bad Company's really good.”

The audience cheers and claps. Kripke laughs. Jensen nods and smirks.

Bushman: Okay. Let's take two questions from the middle. One- (points) One over there and (points) one on the other side. (points) O-on this side and then (laughs) one on that side.

•(58:41)- PaleyFest06;Q20A- Acting Advice “Start” (Jared)

Fan: Hi, I'm an inspiring actor. And (giggles) I wanted to know-

Singer: We’re sorry. (The audience laughs. Kripke laughs then aw’s)

Fan: I wanted to know, um, how hard was it for you two to get started acting? (Jared looks at Jensen)

Jensen: (gestures to Jared) Go ahead. (audience giggles)

Jared: Uuh. Alright, I'll feel this. I-It’s a it's not the first time I've actually heard that question and I'm- I'm so at a loss for what to tell you. (scratches knee) I have a very interesting story. When I was in high school I won a contest to being on the Teen Choice Awards. (some of the audience laughs) And hold trophies and give them to Freddie Prinze Jr. when he got (audience laughs) “Best Hottie of.. the World”

Jensen: Pretty much went downhill since then. (audience laughs)

Jared: It’s basically gone down, yeah. (Kripke laughs) Yeah, and I just- (laughs) I rode on Freddie Prinze's coattails. (audience giggles. Jensen smirks) No. Um, and I- and I met an agent at the, uh, at the show. I met a manager actually. And-and, Dan Spilo, I'm still with to this day, sitting with my girl Sandy over there. Um, he- we- (gestures) We started kind of talking over the phone with sides. And he had faith in me and I was going back to high school. And I've mommy that's a teacher and a daddy that was an accountant. (audience giggles) And they were like, “He's finishing high school. He's finishing high school.” And I was like, “Why can’t I go act? Why can’t I go act?”

And anyways, I flew out for about a week during pilot season. And I booked a pilot and then I used that money to go out during the summer. So, I had a really kind of crazy interesting story, but I have a lot of buddies who are, you know, much more talented and-and more committed than I am that are still struggling to make it. So, uh- It's a- It's a.. tough, tough industry but just, you know, keep working hard and keep making yourself better. (nods)

•(1:00:08)- PaleyFest06;Q20B- Acting Advice “Start” (Jensen)

Bushman: Jensen how did you get started?

Jensen: Um. Well, I mean like Jared said there's- there's really no set formula, uh, for- for.. how we, you know, we've gotten to where we've got. Um, mine was kind of a (throws up hand and shakes his head), um, sheer luck thing as-as well.

I was, uh, doing theater in Dallas and I happen to have a-a (throws up hand) talent agent from- from LA sitting in and came up to me afterwards and gave me his-his.. (throws up hand) pitch and I said, “Nah, you're full crap.” (Bushman and audience laugh. Jared smiles.) I told him to bugger off. (audience chuckles) And, uh, h- And then he went up to my-my folks and kind of gave him their pitch as well. And I guess they seemed a little bit more interested in a-

And so a few years later after his, um, persistence I-I finally said, “Ah, maybe I'll go out there for a couple of months and check it out. See if he's, uh- See if he'll talk the talk.” And, uh, I came out. And-and started working right away and that was about eight or nine years ago.

Bushman: Mm. Okay. So, question on that side.

•(1:01:02)- PaleyFest06;Q21- Props “Alcohol” (Jared, Jensen)

Fan: First of all, um, “Shadow” was a kick-ass episode. (audience claps followed by J2 and Shiban clapping) And I want to thank you all for that one, cuz it's awesome.

But let's get down to, like, what really matters. What alcohol do you guys like to drink? (audience laughs. Kripke and Singer look at J2.)

Jared: What alcohol do you got? (Kripke shakes his head with opens his hands at the audience, and then laughs with the audience)

Fan: Because I see a lot of beers and stuff in the episode. And it's always my thing to place what y'all are drinking. So, I was just wonderin,’ you hard guys? You light guys?

Jared: (laughs and then claps. Jensen smiles at Jared) Uh, my mom would kill me. (audience laughs) Umm-

Jensen: Yeah, can we cut the tape like right now? (audience laughs)

Jared: Yeah, could we? We were rolling. Check. Check. Actually (Jensen adjusts his position) one of the funny things about the, uh, about the beers is our-our prop master, Chris Cooper, um, he's.. some of the (gestures) (a clicking noise is made) beer labels they're always fake labels. (audience laughs) (Jared looks up) God?

Jensen: (?somebody get?) a staple gun. (audience laughs)

Shiban: (?Give me a minute.?)

Jared: And, uh, (chuckles) They're always fake labels and it usually have some do with the city that we're filming that episode in. You know like if we’re in Texas it'll be like, “Lone Star Logger,” or if we’re in.. (one person laughs) Minnesota it'll be like, “Timber Wolf Ale” or something (audience chuckles) like that.

But, you know, (looks at Jensen) we’re Texas boys. I- I think-

Jensen: Yeah, we, you know, would probably drink what you imagine a couple Texas boys drink. (J2 smirk. Audience giggles)

Jared: Put in a cup. (audience laughs. Jensen nods)

Jensen: That’s right. (Jared rubs his hand over his face and laughs. The Audience laughs)

•(1:02:14)- PaleyFest06;Q22A- Favorite SPN Scene (Manners)

Bushman: I have a question for you guys. (audience laughs. Jared nods while pressing his lips together. Jensen scratches his ear) Um, I'm curious if, ueh, this is possible to answer this question, if you could pick a scene that you either wrote or acted in or directed that's probably like your favorite scene that you've worked on since this show started and if you tell me why. Um, (Jared?: mm) anybody want to.. take. (Manners gestures at Bushman) Kim go ahead.

Manners: I'll take that, um. (rubs his tear duct) “Shadow,” where the boys finally f- saw their father. Uhh d- (audience claps and cheers) (shakes his head and clears throat) “Shadow” was- u-uh, I'm incredibly proud of because there were four great scenes. The scene where the boys were arming up and, uh, Dean blows at Sam and says, “Why do you think I-I got you out of Stanford in the first place?” “Why do you think I came to get you? Because I want us to be family again.”

And, uh, (Jensen dramatically wipes his eyes with the back of his hand. Audience laughs) I'll tell you Jensen had a tough time with that and we kind of arm wrestled over it. And he- and, uh- (Jensen nods) tooo get him there and, you know, because- because Dean is, uhh, you know, he's got his walls up. And-and to break down that wall for (gestures) just a minute to look in the Dean’s heart was- was magical for me.

And then when they met dad in the apartment, uh, and in the alley it was just- (nods) We worked very hard. (Jensen nods: mhm) (Jared nods) The boys- they- their game of tennis improves 2000% when they work with Jeffrey Dean or somebody like Niki.. (audience woo’s and claps. Jared claps) Aycox. (shakes head and then scratches nose)

You know, we find the nuances and, uh, it-it- in acting i-it becomes the crap that it is and it becomes real (Jensen nods), uh, life. And the words become (points at J2) their own and the emotions become their own and that's special, for me. (Jensen nods then looks at Manners. Manners looks back)

Jared: And not just to say this, but having a great director to.. tell you exactly what to do doesn't.. make it hard. (briefly looks at Manners) So you know (Manners: Thank you.) I think (tilts his head at Jensen) Jensen and I would tell you.. a thousand times every day like.. you know.. “Kim got it out in that episode.”

Jensen: (scratches head) (unintelligible) Yeah. (?That happened?)

•(1:04:12)- PaleyFest06;Q22Aa- Acting Challenges “Shadow” (Jensen)

Bushman: Hey, Jensen. Did you not want to do that scene because you thought that Dean wouldn't.. say that?

Jensen: Umm, yeah. Sometimes I-I- I guess I can be a little protective of just of-of Dean and-and him (open hands) showing emotions. And I, you know, I always, um… A-and as an actor as you grow with a character on the series you- you really- you really kind of become close to it. (gestures) And You- you protect it. (Bushman: mhm) Em, you protect that character.

And, um, I guess that, that was probably what-what- what that was. And, uh, I just didn't- I wasn't (gestures) real sure how.. uh, how much of the layers, uh, to peel away (gestures) in that scene. And I guess in that confusion I just- I-I kind of put up my own barrier. (Thumbs to Manners) But, uh, if there was anybody to get me through it, it was Kim. So, I'm glad he was there.

Bushman: Great.

Jensen: Yeah.

•(1:05:00)- PaleyFest06;Q22B- Favorite SPN Scene (Shiban)

Bushman: John you have a favorite scene?

Shiban: Uuuh, there was a moment in “Skin” that-that I'm.. proud of. And actually it- in the- it sort of says something about how we (sniffs) tell our stories because we're always saying, “Okay, we want to do this type of episode. We want to do this monster. But how would Supernatural do it? How is it special for our show?” And I rremember being in- in Kripke’s palatial office of Warner Bros. (audience and Manners? chuckle)

Kripke: Not so fam- fountains and- (Jared smiles)

Shiban: Yeah. And uh- uh- (The audience, Jensen, and Manners chuckle.) We're (gestures) talking through the story of “Skin,” and the shapeshifter and obviously, you know, there's all kinds of (gestures) shape-shifting that's been done on television and movies etc. And he said, “We got to find our own.” And, uh, we kicked it around and came up with that scene, uuh, where Shapeshifter Dean goes down in the sewer.

And.. and I remember reading a, um- uhh, some online posts some friends send me that someone else (mimics writing) -a fan was watching the show and giving her impressions as she watched it, (mimics typing) “Oh my god! Dean's taking his shirt off!” (audience laughs. Kripke smirks) and then followed immediately- followed immediately by, “Oh my god! He's taking his skin off.” (Jensen and the audience laugh) I knew then that we, you know, we had it. (Jensen takes a drink) And I was very- I was very pleased with that.

Jensen: (places his glass down on the table) Oh, the things we do.

•(1:06:14)- PaleyFest06;Q22C- Favorite SPN Scene (Jensen)

Bushman: Jensen, you have a scene?

Jensen: Uuum.. (smacks lips) Yeah. I-I- one of my favorite, uh- um, it's not really a-a- a full scene but it's-it’s more of a shot. Um, and it was in, uh, it was in “Dead in the Water” (scratches arm) with, um- (points at Manners) Kim directed. Um, where I-I saved the little boy out of the lake. (nods) Uuh (some of the audience aw’s and then giggling) and coming- coming up out of the water. Uhm, and that was- It was just- It was, you know, slow-motion shot. It was very emotional, coming out with water and it was- That was really neat, um, but the build-up to that shooting it was, uh, (Manners chuckles) was really- (chuckles) (audience chuckles)

Uhhh, I had this 10 year-old boy in my hand and I'm keeping both of us (mimics holding the boy while swimming with one arm) afloat with one- one arm, uum, (rubs his chin) because I came with my feet (mimics holding a foot) because I got two divers holding my feet below me who were about to pull me under. And-d (one hand shrug) , you know, I-I'm fine. I grew up swimming in lakes and j- and all my life. But tah.. to have that sensation of somebody pulling you under water, um, especially when you've got the life of a-a 10 year old, you know, little actor in your hand and-and you're trying to keep him afloat. And he's got to play dead it was just- (shakes his head and rubs forehead) (audience murmurs) It was, uh- (looks up at Bushman) it was a little overwhelming. And.. and it was definitely unforgettable.

But, uh, we got through it. (throws up hand) We get- and it turned out to be an awesome shot. (thumbs at Manners)

Bushman: That's a great story.

Jensen: Yeah.

•(1:07:34)- PaleyFest06;Q22D- Favorite SPN Scene (Jared)

Bushman: Jared?

Jared: uhh, you know what? I've had some time to think while.. (Kripke chuckles) (scratches head) (audience chuckles) they've answered their questions. And I'm gonna go back to, uh, a scene in “Wendigo” that we did at the very, you know, (throws hand up) second episode of the year and I member there was just such (gestures) a long period of time between the “Pilot” and “Wendigo.” It was.. What? From m-March-April till July. (Kripke: mhm)

And, uh, there were so many (gestures) questions in my head when I found that we were getting picked up. Like, what's gonna happen? Where are we gonna start? Like, how do we.. start? How do we finish? How do we continue this story that we started a pilot with so many things going down? How do we.. keep the momentum going?

And there was this one particular scene that, uh, (points at Jensen) Jensen and I did on stage where he's got (gestures) dad's journal he's saying this is what it's about (Kripke nods) and Sam is saying, “I got to find Dad.” And I remember we, uh- We had a huge day that day. We had like eight or nine (turns his head towards Jensen) pages of dialogue. (Jensen nods) And, uh, Jensen and I realized we had to do the scene. We're like, “Oh, crap.” (J2 turn towards each other) Like, (laughs) “W-what? Let’s go memorize this in my trailer.” (gestures) We sat down in my trailer. And there was an acting coach that I-I work with whenever I can, named Karen Thorpe, up there with us. (Kripke nods)

And, uh, you know he kind of pushed and prodded me a little bit. (throws up hand) And I don't know what he did to Jensen. (audience laughs) But, uh..

Jensen shakes his head. Jared makes a grimace. Kripke? Giggles. The audience laughs. Jensen smiles into his hands. Jared smiles and scratches his head.

Jensen: I don’t want to talk about it.

Jared: It was noisy.

Jared and the audience laugh. Kripke laughs. Jared claps and then looks down, hiding his face behind his arm and scratches and combs his hair.

Jensen: Never again.

Jared: That’s between y’all and the wall. (audience laugher and ughs?) But, anyways we ended up- we ended up kind of getting the scene and-and putting something there. (scratches leg) And I think, um, it was one of the first times I ever felt like (throws up hand)… um, I was- I was hopefully doing what Kripke wanted, you know? Like, I think, like, I felt like, “You know, I think this is what Eric was envisioning.” Like, I really felt, for some reason, there's one of those times when you finish a scene and you're like, “Wow. I don't know where that came from but.” (shrugs) “I don't know.” (Kripke nods) “Whatever.”

Kripke: I remember seeing the dailies on that too. Uh, we were just through the roof. It was incredible. (Jared pats his knees with his fingers)

•(1:09:18)- PaleyFest06;Q22E- Favorite SPN Scene (Singer)

Bushman: Bob?

Singer: Um, I think, um, my favorite scene is a really quiet scene. And It's at, um, is at the end of the “Faith” episode. And-and (gestures) that whole episode was really about (Kripke nods) (gestures) I think, very… topical for today about what's.. what's real faith. And, uh, Julie Benz comes in has a, uh, scene with Jensen. And, uh, Jensen says to her, um, “I-I'm not much for praying, but I-I'll pray for you.” (Jensen nodding: mhm) And (gestures) she said, “Well, that's a miracle right there.”

And, uh, (gestures) I-I thought that, that kind of- I-I thought that was really sweet. I thought it was incredibly well acted, um, with both Julie and Jensen. And-and I thought that, um, I probably.. If people were listening, I think that probably was our.. You know, our finest moment to, uh, say something semi political and-and be, um, on the right side of that. (shrugs) I just hope it affected people the way it affected me. (audience claps. J2 and Shiban clap.)

•(1:10:18)- PaleyFest06;Q22F- Favorite SPN Scene (Kripke)

Kripke: Um, I-I (slice gestures) agree with.. all of those. All those are incredible scenes I would also add, uh, the scene when, uh-uh, Dean first calls his father in “Home” and tells him that “Come to Lawrence” and just the way that Jensen was able to try (gestures) to put up those walls, but the walls kept breaking down and that was amazing. (gestures)

But all those amazing scenes aside, (gestures) everyone's given such classy answers. (audience giggles) I have to say that when the when the dude stuck his hand the disposal in-in “Home”. (j2 and audience laugh. Jensen claps) And-and then the monkey starts clapping and- and (mimics camera) we had that shot beneath the sink and you could actually see all the goo come out. (audience ew’s) And I said I- and we shot it in dailies. I said, “They'll never let us use that.” And we used it. And, uh, it's- it's more probably- than any other scare sequence in the show. (Manners laughs) It's the one that people watch (Jensen: Yeah) (mimics viewers cringing and blocking the scene from their eyes) And they just- they can't even, you know, keep their eyes on the screen. (gestures to himself) And, you know, to me that's sort of the fun at getting the effect out of the audience. (to Bushman) So, I'm going to say the (gestures) garbage disposal scene in the “Home.” (audience laughs and claps)

Bushman: It's great because that explains what Bob was talking about before with the two different approaches to dra-

Kripke: See. (gestures) There you go.

(1:11:24)- closing

Bushman: Alright. (to audience) Okay, I want to thank you guys. You guys have been a great audience. (audience, Manners, Singer, and J2 clap)

Kripke: Can I say-

Bushman: Uh, also, uh, Before you go! Before you go! Don't go yet. I also (two security personnel walk on stage) want to thank Er- First of all Erik's got something to say.

Kripke: (holds up hand) Well, I just wanted to say, uh, we have a lot of, uh, the people who work in- on “Supernatural” in the audience. And I want a round of applause for them for this unbelievable season. (audience and panelists cheer and clap) All of them have done such a- They’ve all.. (gestures) They’ve all murder themselves to-to (gestures) bring you this show. And-and we couldn't do it without any of them. So- so, thank you to them. We-(gestures) it's-

Audience member: Are we getting (?pics off?)

Bushman: I- I also want to thank (gestures to panelists)-

Kripke: Hope so.

Bushman: I want to thank you guys, all of you, for.. not just being here tonight, but also for the great work that you're doing.

Jensen: (bows head) Thank you. (audience claps and cheers)

Bushman: And you’re obviously touching our cords. Thank you very much.

Singer: (nods) Thank you.

Kripke: Thank you. (audio cuts)

Jared’s clapping. Jensen is taking off his mic. Shiban is clapping. Manners is sitting up. Four security personnel walk and stand in front of the panelists, along with a woman and two stage assistants. The panelists all take off their mics and stand and mingle with the people on stage. The audience is also standing and exiting. Video fades to black.

#spn #supernatural #paleyfest 2006 #spn transcript #jared padalecki #jensen ackles #eric kripke #robert singer #kim manners #john shiban #peter johnson #david bushman #2006

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the-conversation-pod · 18 days

Text

Spring Grab Bag Part 1: Genre Shows

And we're back! This week we're talking about all of the shows that blended other genres with BL, including mystery, horror, and science fiction. Because only NiNi and Ginny watched everything, we brought Shan and Ginny back to the booth to cover all of the shows. Today we're talking about how Playboyy failed us, 7 Days Before Valentine landed in a specific niche, our reactions to Dead Friend Forever, and the different things we walked away with from Love for Love's Sake.

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:00:00 - Welcome 00:01:15 - Grab Bag Part 1: Genre Shows 00:02:31 - Playboyy the Series 00:18:42 - 7 Days Before Valentine 00:29:35 - Dead Friend Forever 00:50:03 - Love for Love’s Sake 01:13:39 - Outro

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @ginnymoonbeam as transcriber, and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

00:00:00 - Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re your drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

00:01:15 - Grab Bag Part 1: Genre Shows

NiNi

We're literally doing it live, Ben. [Ben laughs]

Shan

Great start. [Ginny and NiNi laugh]

NiNi

We’re keeping that in! We're absolutely keeping that in! [Shan and Ginny laugh]

Go on ahead, Ben.

Ben

And we're back! This week we are doing our Grab Bag episode. We will be talking about quite a few shows. But first, we have guests.

NiNi

Say ‘hi’ Ginny and Shan. Say ‘hi,’ Ginny.

Ginny

Hello!

NiNi

Say hi, Shan.

Shan

Hi, people!

NiNi

Like Ben said, we're here to do a grab bag. Actually, we're here to do two grab bags. It's a two-parter, fun times. The first part, we're gonna talk about a bunch of genre shows. It's gonna be fun. We're gonna have a good time. It's always a good time when Ginny and Shan are with us.

Ben

Today we are talking about Playboyy the Series, 7 Days Before Valentine, Dead Friend Forever, and Love For Love's Sake. You may use the timestamps we provide to jump to your relevant section.

NiNi

Look at Ben being a good cruise director. I love it.

00:02:31 - Playboyy the Series

Ben

We begin with Playboyy the Series. Since I did not watch this show, NiNi or Ginny, would you like to describe Playboyy for the people, or do you want me to describe it based on my three episodes’ experience?

NiNi

I feel like this is all you, Ginny, go.

Ginny

Playboyy is a show that tried to be about the complex lives of sex workers and people exploring new thresholds of kink, and instead was simply a hot mess that devolved into several different directions. Did not say what it intended to say—or perhaps intended to say horrible things, we’re not clear on that—and disappointed nearly everybody. How's that?

Shan

Very well done.

NiNi

That is it in a nutshell. Ginny and I watched this to the end. Shan quit. Ben quit way earlier.

Shan

I wanna just give myself credit for hanging in there for a long ass time. I think I made it all the way to, like, episode 9 or 10 before I had to stop.

Ben

I'm just gonna own it right away. I quit at the end of episode 3. I said this is not for me, and I have nothing nice to say. I'm gonna just leave now.

NiNi

You really did. We're here to talk about the genre BLs of the season. And Playboyy technically counts as a, I guess, murder mystery? But ugh. Okay, I'm invoking The Shipper.

Shan

[gasps] Wow.

NiNi

I know we said we're never going to talk about this again, but I am invoking The Shipper.

Ben

Proceed.

NiNi

What a hot fucking mess this was. This show wanted to be about so much and in the end ended up being about nothing. It's offensive. It's sensationalist. I found it bad in a particularly banal, uninteresting way, and I'm mostly upset because when it started—it wasn't great, but it had some ideas. And then those ideas just completely fell by the wayside.

Listen, guys, I am the sex in story person. This was right up my alley. I don't know if you've ever seen the phenomenal classic Shortbus. Ginny was like, ‘this is giving me Shortbus,’ and I was like, ‘ohh tell me more, I’m seeing it.’ That was maybe episode 4, and by episode 6 I was like, I don't know that it's giving Shortbus.

I thought it was saying something about sex that it actually wasn't saying because in the end it's all about monogamy and the power of love. Which, yeah, okay, it could absolutely be about that. But that's not what it was sold as. I can't even continue on it. Ginny, you have to take over for me, it's just bad. I don't like it.

Ginny

What you said is key because it wasn't sold as being about monogamy and the power of love. And it's fine for a show to be about that, but if a show is going to give you a bunch of seamy underbelly, kink, sex work, highly stigmatized sexual topics, and then it's gonna come around and being like, but actually monogamy and the power of love is what it's all about, then you are only further stigmatizing those topics. If you put them in, and then you don't land on a positive note with those topics, you're just reinforcing what everybody already thinks about them.

That is not what the show was sold to us as, and I'm furious about it because I want to see more material that deals honestly with some of the more difficult sexual topics and the more controversial areas of sexuality. This show promised us that, and then it ended up being like, ‘buuut if you're in true love, then all problems are solved, and the kinkiest people are somehow also the evilest, oops, we don't know how that happened.’ And it's just infuriating.

NiNi

I'm not even gonna get into what Playboyy is actually about, because in the end, it doesn't matter. I'm just gonna be straight. There are people who enjoyed this. I was not one of those people.

Ben

I have a couple of questions I'd like to ask so we can unpack some stuff here. Let's go around the table, starting with Shan.

When we all signed up to watch Playboyy originally, what were you hoping for based upon the initial promotional materials?

Shan

Oh, this is such a loaded question. Now I have to invoke Only Friends.

So, Playboyy and Only Friends share a writer. Only Friends, as was very thoroughly discussed on this podcast, also ended with a message reinforcing monogamy and the power of love in a show that claimed to be about something else. And so I went into Playboyy, actually really eager to see another work from this screenwriter, because I wondered if maybe some other things had happened on that show that got in the way of this message that he has been claiming to be trying to put out in the world.

And so I expected, based on the promotional materials, based on the way the folks behind the show were talking about it, I expected this to be very much a sex and kink positive show, very much a show exploring the many different ways that sex and sexual relationships can evolve, can look, trying to also shine some light on the lives and experiences of sex workers. All of that was part of the promotion of the show, alongside the murder mystery aspect. It was never clear to me going in how much about each of those things the show would be. It seemed to be trying to tackle a lot, so I was interested to see how it would weave those things together. And it just didn't really, and it didn't do a lot of those things it was claiming to be doing.

Ben

What about you, Ginny?

Ginny

Very similar to Shan, I expected and hoped for a lot of showcasing of sexual diversity, and as NiNi said, I was hopeful in the first episodes. She and I hung on so long trying to defend what the show might be trying to do. It did look like it was trying to show somebody who was averse, maybe to touch, maybe was asexual, maybe had trauma, we weren't clear. That was an interesting thing to explore. People in sex work for various different reasons. People who were very clear about their kinks and interests.

And I was hoping for a mature, in-depth exploration that didn't treat sex itself like it was this shocking new frontier, that sort of accepted this is something that's a part of many people's lives and can be treated with seriousness and playfulness at the same time. I did not expect the plot to hold together because there were simply way too many characters, but I at least wanted the core messaging and character development around sexuality to be consistent and interesting and positive. And the longer the show went on, the worse it got in all of those respects.

Ben

So going in, I was expecting there to be some really fun examination about masculine sexuality, and then very quickly I realized the show was doing porn setups as basically just a joke? They weren't really doing with that what we thought they might be. Like, they're introducing porn setups to talk about the inherently artificial nature of porn and the lack of genuine connection happening for men who are projecting their expectations of sex onto the false notions they might be getting from adult content. And that is not what happened. At all, so. I left very quickly because I was like, I don't need this. And I thought their sex ed 101 messages were deeply muddled by some of their own unfortunate choices.

Speaking of unfortunate choices, let's go around the table again. What was the unfortunate choice that this show made [laughs] that pushed you over the edge and either quit it or decided you hated it by the end?

Shan

I gave it a long time. I really tried with this show. I tried to read some of these deeper themes and messages that both makers of the show and people watching the show were claiming were embedded in the work, and I couldn't find it. I think it was kind of a slow trickle for me of things that just kept adding up, but what might have really been the snapping point for me was what they did with Zouey's storyline. Someone who was maybe sex averse or sex repulsed. I was very much looking forward to development of that as he fell in love with somebody and was trying to work through that. The way that the show resolved that storyline—his falling in love with somebody just made it go away. He just suddenly was fine with sex one day, just like that. That's all it takes, apparently. And then even further down the line in the show, they undid it even further by completely retconning his entire issue and changing the source of it from the beginning.

But that moment when they just showed him just suddenly, magically being fine with sex through the power of love after what had felt like a setup of a serious sexual dysfunction issue that he wanted to work through, it just felt so disrespectful to me. It was a moment where I was like, ‘Oh, nothing this show is doing matters. It doesn't take any of it seriously. I was silly to trust that it did.’ That was just kind of it for me. I was like, I can't do this anymore. I'm out.

Ben

Ginny?

Ginny

There wasn't one moment. It was just a slow decay of trust and interest over time. I think the storyline between First and Soong—first of all, it was badly acted.

Ben

Is First the thermometer boy?

Ginny and Shan

Yes. [both laugh]

Ben

Yeah, that's—spoiler alert!

Shan

Was that your moment, Ben?

Ben

—that's why I left. [laughs]

Ginny

I hung in with them well past the thermometer. That story could have been really interesting about the complexities of a dom-sub relationship that also has a very real financial angle. They keep being drawn to each other for reasons I did not understand, and the show did not really justify. It could have been such an interesting exploration of a really complex power dynamic, and instead it was just two people taking turns being mean to each other and then senselessly coming back to each other with no kind of nuance or complexity. So frustrating.

Ben

NiNi, did you have a breaking moment with this show that you recall?

NiNi

There are so many moments where I had to push through, like the toe sucking incident, I had to push through. There was a dog food incident, I had to push through that, as well. When I was over it, though, was, the main character is supposedly pretending to be his twin brother, and there were hints along the way that maybe there was no twin and there was maybe a disassociation happening there as this person tries to come to terms with their self-image in the wake of having kinds of sexual experiences that he enjoyed but didn't think he should. And there was a lot to unpack there. But then they showed the twin brother’s dead body, and I was just like, ‘Okay, no, this show is shit.’ I was over it at that point.

I stayed till the end because as I said to everybody, I wanted my complaints to be specific and comprehensive. But yeah, that was it for me in the end. The fact that they sold it as some sort of psychological deep dive and it ended up being not even a bog standard murder mystery with a cartoon villain.

Ben

I'd like to follow up with something Ginny mentioned in her response. You talked about how this show was a slow betrayal of trust for you. Let's talk about this creative team.

So with Cheewin and Den, this is their second outing together. How are we feeling about Den and Cheewin as a creative duo?

Ginny

I don't trust Den anymore, which is a shame. He's very, very vocal on social media about the shows he's doing and the way he talks makes it sound like he's coming from this forward thinking, sex positive, ‘Let’s push the boundaries’ way. But then the two shows, as Shan mentioned, Only Friends and Playboyy, just felt so regressive in their ultimate messages, and in how they treated their most boundary pushing characters. So I—with much regret because I was very excited about him as a new voice and a new presence in the scene—fully do not trust him anymore.

Cheewin I have more grace for because he's got a much bigger resume and he's made some things that I really loved. Secret Crush on You is one of my shows of all time. Why r u? is also a favorite of mine. I am watching Deep Night and I'm curious to see what he's doing with Den's involvement maybe less in this story side of things.

Ben

I'm glad for your answer. I've been dealing with my own version of BL burnout for a while. As you all have gotten here in real time on this show, so I am currently not watching Deep Night, so I've been curious about your reactions as we get deeper into that. I'm tired of getting disappointed around the 50 to 70% mark of these shows and then being grumpy for a month as they stumble their way to the end. I’m about to be like NiNi and just binge shows after they're done.

NiNi

It's a technique that I highly recommend for a lot of shows, actually. Not every show, but a lot of shows.

Ben

Shan, you traditionally used to like to binge shows after they were mostly done. You started watching live because you unfortunately met me.

Shan

[laughs] It's all your fault, bestie.

Ben

Where are you currently on Den, Cheewin, and your general vibe with showrunner teams that have let you down, and engaging with future work?

Shan

I really agree with what Ginny said about Den and Cheewin in particular. Cheewin has a long history. I've really loved some of his work. I've really disliked some of his work. I think that's how it's always gonna be with Cheewin, he's a little bit hit or miss. He tries things and it doesn't always work. But I'm willing to come into each of his new projects with benefit of the doubt to see what he's trying to do.

With Den, I'm much more wary after these couple projects back-to-back. I'm always wary of creators who speak so much on social media outside of their work to try to shape opinions about it rather than letting the work speak. That has been a wariness that I've had around him from the beginning because he's been very vocal about his active projects, trying to shape and define the fan response to them in a way that I find a bit off-putting. With these projects in particular, I feel like he's been really trying to claim a mantle that he is not actually owning and earning with his work. So yeah, similar to Ginny, I don't really trust him anymore. I will not be live watching any more shows that he's writing, and I'll be waiting to hear from other folks that I trust about whether or not I should be even venturing into them at all.

NiNi

I'm going to give it a 0 which I never give shows. I was actively offended and I don't want to talk about it anymore.

Ben

Ginny, you have any final thoughts about Playboyy you wanna share?

Ginny

No. I want someone to make a good sex show, that's all.

Ben

This show is going to get a DNF from The Conversation. We did not finish it. You don't need to either.

NiNi

And with that, let's move on.

00:18:42 - 7 Days Before Valentine

NiNi

The next show we're gonna talk about is 7 Days Before Valentine. Wait, so which one of us watched this, was it just me and Ginny?

Ben

Yeah, just you and Ginny. I'll talk a little bit about it and then I'll let you two take over. We jumped onto 7 Days Before Valentine because Punnasak Sukee was running this project. We all know him from 180 Degree Longitude Passes Through Us, which is a favorite of mine. So we were really excited to see additional work from him. He was adapting someone else's work this time.

The initial premise is about this guy named Sunshine, who is an aspiring actor who has a kind of ugly breakup with his boyfriend, who's now seeing someone else. He meets this supernatural being which is able to grant him a wish to erase someone from existence in order to help him reunite with his boyfriend. He gets seven days of attempts to erase someone, and then the world resets, and he progressively erases different people who he believes are the person responsible for why he and his boyfriend didn't work out.

I ended up not finishing the show because I was struggling with it as a weekly watch. NiNi came behind it late and watched it basically in two or three sittings and seemed to have a much better experience with it.

I want to go to you first, Ginny, because I think you live watched the whole thing.

Ginny

I did live watch the whole thing, and I do think that NiNi did it better, because I think it was better suited for a binge. Obviously, we know going in that this guy is not gonna end up thinking that erasing somebody every night is a great thing to do, like, that's a horrific premise. His journey of really internalizing what he's doing and the horror of it is slooow to unfold over 10 weeks or so. It moves too slowly. I think it actually would have been a better show with shorter episodes. I think the episodic breaks are where they need to be, but I think that each episode could be tighter and brisker.

NiNi and I both also read the source novel. I don't know how much we want to get into that, but I think we both were fascinated by how much the adaptation team added and enriched the very simple core story. It was a beautiful show, I think NiNi will talk a lot about that. The sort of root of this man who's lonely and has felt like he's had one person who loves and is a partner to him, abandon him and his desperation to get that back, being slowly replaced by his attachment to this other person who's locked in this weird Faustian situation with him.

There was some good meat in there and some really good scenes played out. So I am glad I watched it. I think I would have enjoyed it better on a binge and I think it would have been a better show if it had been, just edited more tightly and moved faster through this character’s realizations.

NiNi

I think that's mostly how I felt about it. So I did watch it on a binge and I remember when we were discussing it saying that it felt like being in the theater for some really experimental play. Just sitting in the dark, thoroughly enjoying watching this thing unfold, not knowing where it's going but having a real good time. That's how it felt to me going through it, it was a little trippy. It was deep and interesting in the places that it needed to be deep and interesting. I liked the rhythm and meter and cadence of the dialogue. I don't speak Thai, but I do sing, and getting rhythm and meter, you could kind of feel the way that it was written, the kind of poetry, maybe, that it was meant to evoke. I was thoroughly enjoying this soothing rhythm of how it was written.

The set design is outstanding. And then there's some stuff happening on like TVs and signs and all kinds of things in the background that was just crazy fun. It's a very moody, atmospheric kind of piece. It's sorta kinda like folklore or fairy tale, something supernatural. I had a really great, engaging time with it. I truly enjoyed it. I thought it was beautiful to watch.

I also agree, Ginny, that it feels long, but then when you go through it, you're like, well, what would they cut? Where would they cut? Everything that's there feels like it needs to be there, and then the things that you're thinking, well, maybe they could shorten this or that. They add to the atmosphere of the piece in such a way that helped me immerse myself in the work. Like, there's some lull portions of it where it's just a character singing or, like, Sunshine doing the monologue from Macbeth. Maybe they could have cut this, but then when those things are happening, I'm literally glued, I can't turn away from them.

It's definitely not BL, it's very experimental work that I personally enjoyed, but it's not a traditional narrative at all.

Ben

Shan, did you watch this show at all?

Shan

I did not. When the show started airing, I still hadn't watched 180 Degree Longitude Passes Through Us. So I remember when you all started this show live, asking whether I should watch it. And you, I think Ben, are the one who told me no. ‘No, I want you to watch 180D first.’ And as I was working through that binge, you all were continuing with 7 Days Before Valentine and kind of realizing, oh, this is not really holding up the same mantle as that show. So I ended up never diving in and then the final reviews of the show were pretty much mixed. It didn't feel like something I needed to prioritize to watch. I still haven't watched it. I'm not sure if I will.

NiNi

The only similarity really between 180D and this is that they both feel theatrical, but they feel theatrical in different ways. 180D is not anything like 7 Days Before Valentine.

Ginny

I think what you said about this feeling kind of folktale- or fairytale-esque was spot on, NiNi. In contrast to 180, which is all about these really deep, complex character interactions, all these characters felt very archetypical, and we were kind of watching these archetypical themes play out. In a way that was quite effective for a lot of it, but yeah, very different story strengths than 180 had.

Ben

So since the two of you finished the story, do you have any comments on the arc that Sunshine and Kyu go through over all of the resets they do together?

NiNi

I mean, I think here is where we would actually do like a little bit of novel comparison. The novel is so much more simplistic. There is so much less happening in the novel on a narrative standpoint. Kyu is not a character that gets his own arc in the novel. Kyu is just a character that shows up every night, gives Sunshine his wish, who he's gonna erase, and then disappears. Whereas in the show, Kyu is a fully fledged character in its own right with his own arc, and it is suggested, as well, his own Kyu?

I enjoyed Sunshine's arc in the show, a very lonely character who is sort of figuring out that he doesn't need to grab onto this one person and hold on to them super tight and be terrified if that person leaves him. Basically kicking and flailing to save the relationship once it's over. The way that that arc plays out, the way that Sunshine learns over the course of the seven nights. He starts with, ‘oh, we'll just get rid of the new guy, that'll bring him back to me’ and then he goes deeper and deeper and further and further out trying to find the ripples of how his relationship went wrong. Until, I think, it's the sixth night he asks to have himself erased? And then by the seventh night, he just wants Kyu to be happy. It’s really so well done.

Ginny

I think the nicest little storyline is around Sunshine realizing the importance of community. You see him initially very fixated on ‘I need this one person to come back to me’ and as the story wraps up and everybody's restored, you see him starting to see these other relationships with people who are in his life because of his ex, but also maybe care about him, who he could have some kind of community with. I think that was one of the most important character growth lines of the show, specifically with the ex's friend, and realizing that maybe the way he had seen her and his relationship to her had been very clouded by his own self-image and assumptions about people seeing him as somebody who should be discarded.

NiNi

What did you think about the Mephistopheles-esque character? Because he wasn't in the book.

Ginny

Oh, he was my favorite. The liquor and flower shop, so much fun. Every scene. There were a lot of scenes in the show that I was kind of bored during because again, I think they were just not paced very tightly, but every scene with this liquor flower shop owner, I was riveted. He was so engaging and dynamic as a atmospheric character, he brought so much richness.

Ben

What did the two of you rate the show?

Ginny

I gave it a 7.5. I think it's worth watching if the premise interests you, if you like great theatrical settings or cinematography. It was beautifully shot. And if the sort of Faustian theme and things like that are interesting, definitely worth a watch.

NiNi

I gave it an 8.5. I think that because I binged it, I had a slightly different experience and there were some things in the pacing that maybe I enjoyed slightly more because of that. I don't think it's for everybody, but if you like Faustian stories and you like experimental storytelling, I think it's a good one.

Ben

It's getting an 8 with an asterisk.

NiNi

I think that's fair.

00:29:35 - Dead Friend Forever

NiNi

So next up, we are going to be talking Dead Friend Forever. Be On Cloud’s, horror-slasher-thriller.

Shan, you pick up this one. Tell us what Dead Friend Forever is about.

Shan

Dead Friend Forever is, I think, maybe the first attempt in the genre to do a long form horror story. One of, actually, the big discussion points about this show is exactly what genre it lives in and what it's trying to be. It ended up blending a lot of different horror sub genres. It did some good mystery work. It did end up having a couple BL love lines, but that didn't follow the normal beats because of the genres it was living in. I think ultimately, it is the story of a teenage boy who was harmed by many people and the fallout of that.

Ginny, I feel like you know more of the lore behind the show and kind of the build up to it. Do you want to add to that?

Ginny

So this was a showcase for Be On Cloud’s new stable that they first brought in through their reality show The Hidden Character. And then this was the drama that a large number of these new guys got to star in. So some of the storytelling choices, there were some scenes that I felt like, oh this is really just for your resume reel, isn't it? But that said, it was well constructed. It was, I think, a good choice to make kind of the slasher genre that lets you have a lot of different characters with very vivid personalities that let these new actors demonstrate their talent without taxing them too hard on too much complexity.

I really enjoyed this show. I have some notes, but overall, I thought it was fantastically well done, and especially as a way to launch about half a dozen new faces into the scene. And also a way to launch the cooperation between Be On Cloud and Sammon, the very beloved writer of Thai BL suspense. Her skills and Be On Cloud’s orientation and vision seem to be a really good match, so I'm excited to see her writing and their production team do more together.

Shan

I think actually finding out that she was the writer is the thing that finally sucked me into this show. [laughs] I jumped in, I think after episode 8? I kept hearing how good the writing was, and then I think Ginny told me that Sammon was the writer and I was like, ‘Oh! Let me get in there.’

I'm with you, I want them to do a lot more collaborations in the future because she is one of the stronger writers, I think, working in Thai BL, and they are one of the stronger production houses, so it's a really nice pairing.

Ben

I was watching this weekly with you all and then we got to the end of episode 4, and the teaser indicated a flashback and I was like, ‘I saw The Untamed. I'm not spending 27 episodes on that.’

[Ginny laughs]

Shan

Oh not The Untamed catching strays! Rude!

NiNi

I will allow it.

Ginny

We're gonna get so many notes.

[Shan and Ben laugh]

Ben

Look, I enjoyed The Untamed, but it was so ridiculous. And I just was not in the mood because I am not that keen on horror. As a black person who was raised in the South, I do not need to watch horror to trigger my fight or flight instinct for fun, so. I'm not that keen on the genre. It does not do much for me. I find that I can really only give about two-ish hours to a slasher concept before I get tired of it and need to walk away. And that happened to me with Dead Friend Forever, ‘cause we were in it for about four episodes, which was about three-ish hours, and I was like, ‘I'm done. [sigh] I'm taking a break.’

And then Shan, after episode eight, was like, ‘This show is very good. So, jot that down.’

Shan

I was like, ‘I'm so sorry, bestie. You're gonna have to finish it.’ [laughs]

Ben

I was like, “Goddammit!” [laughs]

Shan

It was really good!

Ben

I enjoyed a lot of the character writing. When they decided to delve into the horrors that these boys had inflicted on Non, played by Barcode—who was really good in this show—the show decided to really full commit to it. Holy shit!

NiNi

Like it was Korean level, how deep they got into the bullying.

Shan

Yeah. Like, they did not hold back, they really went for it.

Ginny

Everybody wanted to see all of those boys die by the first flashback episode. Everyone was like, nevermind!

Shan

Kill ‘em all.

Ginny

Whoever’s out in the woods, killin’ ‘em? Get ‘em all.

Shan

Here's another axe.

Ben

I think they did a good job in illustrating the ways that boys just choosing to be a little bit shitty can snowball. There were a lot of points in the flashback where one person not being a coward or not being cruel could have saved all of them from the disaster that befalls them. It's important that we understand, like, why all these boys need to die if we're going to watch them all get brutally murdered.

Speaking of the brutal murder portion of it, let's talk about the final episode and the bloodbath we got. Let's start with our favorite deaths. Who is the most bloodthirsty of all of us? It's definitely Shan.

[NiNi laughs]

Shan

There's no contest.

NiNi

It is 100% Shan.

Ginny

100%.

Shan

The highlight reel of deaths, which was my favorite? I really liked Fluke and Top kind of taking each other out together. So these are both characters who had been antagonists throughout the show. Top had been the most overtly aggressive antagonist throughout the show, he was just horrible, annoying, like you could never see why anybody would ever like that kid. And Fluke had been the bystander who saw everything happening, didn't actually do any of the perpetration directly, but also never intervened and never tried to make any of it stop.

In their final scenes before their deaths, they were both standing in the same place they had always been: denying their accountability, saying, ‘I refuse to accept blame, I refuse to apologize, I refuse to die,’ and then they got into this little battle with each other and ended up going over the banister. They had already both been grievously injured, Fluke’s injury probably being my favorite. He ended up stabbing his own eyes out, which I thought was just such an appropriate poetic ending for him before then falling to his death.

Ben

Ginny, you were a huge fan of this show the whole way through. You're up next. Who was your favorite death?

Ginny

My favorite death was New. I think he's the last confirmed death because it's left sort of vague what happens to the last few guys. What I love is that he's been on this big revenge chorus and as far as we can tell, he's been doing everything. He overdid it. He caused the deaths of two people who weren't at all involved. Narratively, he needs to die, but he goes through this whole cycle of, ‘is this what Non would have wanted? Non, did I let you down again?’ He's got huge guilt on him.

He's been shot. He's bleeding out. He sees Non come to him and sort of say, ‘yes, big brother, you did a great job destroying all these people who destroyed me. Thanks for that.’ So it's this very cathartic and almost sweet moment, even as he is dying. And I really liked it.

Ben

NiNi?

NiNi

Whoo, so, in my view, the people who most needed to die didn't. Or maybe they did, who knows. But the death that I found most satisfying…Por dying slowly in the background while everything is not about him, given that his need for the spotlight pushed almost everything that happened. I thought it was really elegant that he just literally gets dumped on a couch and basically forgotten to die.

Ben

Because I'm last, I get to cheat. My favorite death was Fluke because all he did was watch people be cruel and do nothing to help, and he was driven to insanity and stabbed his own eyes out. I thought that was excellent, really good thematic death for that character. A+.

But my favorite death in terms of playing with genre themes has to be Tea stabbing White to death. A lot of folks in the discourse were hoping that he was gonna be the Final Girl.

Shan

It's me, I'm folks! I did not want White to die!

Ben

[laughs] I didn't think that boy deserved to die, but I thought it was appropriate. And he died in a really fucked up way.

NiNi

Genre-wise, it was definitely appropriate that he died.

Shan

It was a totally fair storytelling choice. I'm not mad at the show about it, but I'm really sad.

Ben

Oh, but we do have things we're mad at the show about.

Shan

We sure do. [laughs]

Ben

Let's talk about that bullshit ass final 10, 15 minutes [Shan dramatically sighs] with Phee and Jin.

NiNi

Phee and Jin and technically Tee, but let's focus on Phee and Jin.

Shan

Phee and Jin are the bigger problem here.

Ben

Who wants to go first? [brief pause] Oh, good, I'll go. [laughs]

NiNi

Oh no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no friend. I am going to go first, okay.

Shan

I was gonna say, NiNi’s gotta go on this one.

NiNi

Because let me tell you, Jin was the living worse because Jin was the Nice Guy. Jin just thought that his friends could be shitty as hell to Non forever, and as long as he smiled at him and was sweet to him and he put enough quarters in the Non machine that maybe Non would fuck him. And then when Non—trigger warning—when Non ends up being assaulted by his tutoring teacher and Jin sees that, what does he do? Does he try to stop it? Does he try to comfort him? Does he try to help him? No! He records it and puts it on the internet to ruin Non’s life. He needed to die, bloody, and he did not die bloody for me to see. And I was upset by that.

Now Phee. I have words for Phee because your man is basically run out of town on a rail by these losers. You are all set to get revenge with his brother, and then one of them slangs you the dick and you're done with the whole revenge thing? Really, you gave up on the revenge? Are you serious right now? You ain’t hard. You ain’t bad. You ain’t serious. You're really trying to protect Jin? After everything? You know what he did!

Ugh, I can't even. Phee and Jin needed to die bloody so that I could see. That did not happen. The psychological horror of whatever the story is saying happened with them at the end—that they never left the house, that they’re trapped in there—I don't care. I needed to see them die bloody. The end.

Now you can talk, Ben.

Ben

Thank you! [NiNi laughs] I'm just gonna say it straight up, I fuckin’ hated it. I feel like that was where the BL aspects of it got in the way of the horror aspects of it. It feels like the show didn't want to show them dying horrible, bloody deaths because they were the primary BL pair? And I was not that keen on them doing the whole, ‘they didn't make it, but here's a little bit of fluff for the people who need that so that they can check out from facing that reality.’

I didn't like it! I wanted to see them also die bloody, painful deaths. They hedged. They showed Jin also being affected by the toxin that New inflicted them with when he was taking a knife to his hand, but they didn't finish it. And I was grumpy about it.

Shan

I agree with both of you and I think it's a shame because, I thought that what the show was doing with Phee through, like, episode nine was so interesting and so smart. Phee cared about Non, but he had also ended things with Non before he disappeared. He thought that Non had been cheating on him. Things didn't end with them in a good place. So he kind of reluctantly came along with New into this plan to get revenge on these boys who had ruined Non’s life.

That whole arc that played out was honestly some of the best mystery writing I've ever seen. It was so masterful, the reveals were perfect, the pacing was awesome. I was so hype about this show. And then around episode 10 is when they started pulling their punches on Phee and it seemed to me to be related to this Phee and Jin stuff. It started with Phee and Jin finding out the roles they each played in Non's life and his downfall. I expected that to be a big moment of realization for Phee, like ‘oh, this boy that I've been interested in was the person who filmed Non being assaulted and put it on the internet.’ Like, that should have been a very, very big deal for him to find out that Jin is the person who did that. But it wasn't. Phee didn't care, really. He had a very brief reaction and then moved on and continued protecting Jin but it didn't create a fracture in their relationship at all, which it absolutely should have.

That for me is when the writing of the show started to falter, and when I started to feel like, like you said, Ben, there were some other influences external to the show interfering with the story revolving around Phee and Jin being a popular BL ship and them not wanting to bust them up. And then that also led to, I think, this weird choice with the ending to imply that Phee and Jin survived and got to be happy. ‘Oh, but maybe they didn't. Maybe that was a dream and they're in the woods. But we're not gonna show you. We're gonna leave it open. Shippers get to interpret it the way they like. The horror fans get to interpret it the way they like. Everybody wins.’ But, when you make those kind of weaselly, non-choice choices, nobody wins.

Ben

At the end of episode 11, they dropped that axe, and then they panned over to it and I'm like, ‘oh boy, I can't wait to see somebody get fucking chopped up with that fuckin’ axe.’ And no one got fucking killed with the axe! I am so disappointed.

NiNi

Ginny, what about you? Where did you get off, so to speak?

Ginny

It didn't feel ambiguous to me so much as it felt like a classic horror movie gotcha. You think they got out free and they're fine and they're all happy? ‘Whoops. Nope, they never left the woods.’ I think if they’d landed on that just a little bit harder, if for example, we'd seen a hand pick up that axe and drag it along the ground and then cut to black.

NiNi

Oh, that would have been so good.

Ginny

Right? I think it might have been wenkexingapologist who suggested that so I don't want to take credit for it, but lovely, my alternate ending. I do think because the ending was so brief and we don't actually see them back there, as Shan said, it leaves a little room for people who really wanna believe in Phee and Jin's happy ever after to believe that. And I think that's a bit cowardly, although I do understand the market forces that maybe led them to do that.

I also would have really loved to see, like, a full character devolution the way that we got with Fluke very appropriately poking his eyes out and Tee stabbing his new innocent love. I would have loved to see that kind of character-driven end for both Phee and Jin, so I'm a little disappointed in that. But my real quibble with the ending that we got is just that they didn't land quite hard enough on it for me.

Ben

I don't like a psychological ending to a slasher when I'm in a slasher I'm expecting my bloodlust to be sated. I don't wanna think through the horror at the end of a slasher.

NiNi

[laughs] Gotta agree.

Shan

That's fair. My only other real strong critique of the show is, given the way that White died, given that he was a victim in the end, I was frustrated by how underwritten he was relative to all the other characters. We just never got to know him. We didn't understand what motivated him. We didn't understand why he liked Tee. We knew he had nothing to do with what happened to Non, and that was intentional, he was meant to be an innocent victim in this. But I would have liked to know him better.

I think where my frustration with this really came bubbling to the surface is he had a hallucination at the end, just like all the other boys. And he was hallucinating boils on his skin and we never knew why. We never got any backstory to explain why his specific fear was centered on this visible disfigurement, this idea that he was going to be rejected because he was dirty, quote unquote. We can fill in some guesses. A lot of folks have put forward theories, but we shouldn't have to put forward a theory for that, all the other boys had hallucinations and fears that were very clearly tied to what we knew about them and what they had done. We didn't get anything like that for White’s. They wanted him to be part of it, but we never knew enough about him to understand what brought him to that state, and why those were his fears, and that felt a little lacking to me, in the end.

Ben

So, final ratings. NiNi?

NiNi

I ended up at an 8.5 because I just thought that it was egregious that I did not get to see Phee and Jin die bloody, A. And B, I also thought that the way the show was structured was really good, but, I think that it may have been more effective for the flashbacks to have been interspersed with the present day rather than being a section on their own in the middle.

Ben

Ginny?

Ginny

I also gave it an 8.5. It was so tight and so well written, did almost all of what it set out to do. Did pull its punches a little at the end. Did weaken story-wise over the final three episodes. That's why it's not higher, but I did really love and appreciate it.

Ben

Shan.

Shan

I gave it an 8 for the same reasons basically that NiNi and Ginny just said. I think it was an excellent show for 9 episodes and then I think it kind of weakened in the final arc. I give a lot of weight to the ending of a show like this and I think having to leave on the bum dissatisfied note at the end of a slasher is just kind of a bummer.

Ben

For the reasons Shan gave, I gave the show a 7.5. Release is a huge part of horror storytelling and not giving us release after three months pissed me off. I don't want to give the show a 7 ‘cause that feels disrespectful to how well executed this whole project is. My primary feeling with Dead Friend Forever is dissatisfaction when I think about it. I should be reveling in the bloodlust at the end and I did not get that feeling.

NiNi

[laughs] I know, right? One thing I did enjoy at the very end is everybody hallucinating baby Barcode basically coming for their asses.

Ginny

That was so good.

NiNi

Barcode had such a great time playing that character.

Shan

We shouldn't leave this segment without talking about how good Barcode was in this show.

NiNi

He was amazing.

Ben

They let Barcode play off of a lot of different characters in a lot of different ways, particularly with some of the fantasy scenarios. And I'm really excited for future work from him.

That averages out to 8.125. We'll give it an 8 from The Conversation. Recommended if you want to watch a long-ass horror experience with the caveats that we have some consternation about the ending.

00:50:03 - Love for Love’s Sake

NiNi

Let's head on to the main event for this episode: Love for Love’s Sake. Ben, you got this one. Take it away.

Ben

Finally, a show I watched properly the whole way! We've been here for an hour and 20 minutes, talking about shows I either quit or started late!

Love for Love’s Sake is a Korean BL. A 29 year-old man wakes up in some sort of strange world where he is back in high school, dealing with some sort of game interface telling him he has to go make his blorbo happy. The show initiates from him meeting with an old friend who's a writer who asked him to beta read his book. And he was pissed about this het nonsense, going, “Why does this boy have to be sad and suffer in other people's happy ending?” His friend goes, “Well, they're adapting my book into a game. If you could, would you make him happy?” And then he passes out drunk, because that's what happens in Korean shows, and he wakes up in the fantasy world, and now he's got this game interface telling him to do stuff. And his mission is: Make Cha Yeo Woon—his blorbo—Happy, or Die. As the show goes along, the game gives him different rewards, sends him different quests. And this gets complicated by some reveals we get late in this, but let's pick up there with the initial conceit.

Shan, you watch this live with us. Let's talk through the live watch experience of this. I was very familiar with this type of storytelling, where someone dies in our world or whatever and then wakes up in another world and has to deal with the fantasy conceits of it, particularly around gaming and such. And also I've played a lot of fucking video games. So a lot of this stuff was super legible to me right away and I did not need a lot of handholding. But you expressed some frustration early on with this.

NiNi

Just so that I understand when Ben teaches me Japanese terms that I remember them. Is this what they would refer to as ‘isekai’ Ben?

Ben

This is what we would call isekai.

Shan

Look at you, NiNi.

NiNi

Thanks! I learn things every day.

Shan

The live watch of this show was extremely fun. A lot of the discussion week to week was about like, what exactly is going on here? Because the show didn't want to tell us. [laughs] I think what might have frustrated me a bit in the beginning was not understanding fully the rules of the universe, which as we get to the end becomes clear why that was. There was a purpose to that in the storytelling. It's not always that easy to tell at the beginning of a show how confidently the story is being told, and like how intentional all the choices are versus what's just a misstep.

But the show, I think, was confidently told, like it knew what it wanted to do and what it wanted to do, ultimately, was leave a lot of room for interpretation in what this game world was, why it worked the way it did, what the choices of the characters meant, what the characters themselves even were. So I thought it was great as a live watch, honestly, and I'm really glad that we watched it that way. I got a lot out of those weekly discussions where we would all unpack what we thought was going on, the questions that we had, things that we noticed as we were trying to figure out what this world was about. An early moment in the show that just gutted me and, like, had me clutching my chest and like in it—no matter what—was when Myung Ha was in the game he would get these scores over the heads of people to see what Yeo Woon—what was it called, Ben? The attractiveness score or the like score or something like that?

Ben

It was the score about his affection level; how much Cha Yeo Woon liked you.

Shan

Right. So because his original mission as we understood it was to make Yeo Woon like him, he would see where his affection level was sitting—it was always hilariously low. And then he unlocked this new power to be able to see how Yeo Woon's affection level was sitting for other people as well. The score was very low for everybody, but then we see that the lowest affection score that Yeo Woon has for anybody is for himself.

Ben

I screamed.

Shan

It was a knife straight into the heart, like, oh my God, this poor boy. And you just fully understood him in that moment. It was done so craftily through this established power that Myung Ha had the way that the show moved on from it quickly. Like, I'm not even sure how deeply Myung Ha even processes it as the player in that moment. It was just so artfully done, and I was like, “Oh, this show knows what it's about.” It really instilled confidence in me from that point forward that I was along for a ride here, and that the things I didn't understand, it was because I wasn't supposed to understand them.

Once we clicked into that, the experience of watching each set of two episodes each week, having deep discussion about them, and unpacking them along the way was such an awesome way to watch. It's not that it's bad in a binge, but I think it's one that really benefits from stopping to think between installments and let your mind wander and process all the different things that it threw at you.

Ben

With that in mind, I want to ask Ginny, because NiNi's been very busy. But, Ginny, you generally receive through the grapevine what's going on with the project, even if you're not really watching it at the moment. What was it like for you seeing this show engender such positive brainrot in people, and then going into it yourself fairly spoiled for some of the big reveals?

Ginny

It was a totally different experience. The main reason I didn't watch it live is that Korean BL is real hit or miss for me, so I always let you guys go into it first, and then tip me off if you think I might like this one. Around episode 6, I was like, “Hey, should I watch this?” And Shan was like, “No, just wait till it's all over.” But yeah, I was seeing a lot of hype. It was clearly making people think a lot. And then it was really cool watching the conversation turn.

I didn't realize right away what was happening, but it was clear that this was getting really existential all of a sudden in ways that people hadn't necessarily been anticipating. Seeing people suddenly less up in their heads about what exactly is going on and more like, “Oh, I'm suddenly hit with all these emotions about all of these ramifications of what I've learned.” And then I did, not intending to, pick up the gist of the big reveals, and so I went into it kind of knowing what it was going to be. So, I had a very different watch experience from those of you who watched it live.

It was a good watch experience. It might have been better for me because I was immediately looking out for all of these little indications and all of these deeper ripples of meaning. For me, it was more like I know what we're getting to, so as soon as I saw that, I knew what it meant. Which was also a good experience, just a different one.

Ben

From this point on, listeners, we are going to discuss major reveals and spoilers about the end of this show.

I have a personal family experience around drowning, and so when we saw Tae Myung Ha's eyes in that sequence when he kept, like, teleporting around the world, because of all of the water sounds we have been getting in the show, I was like, “Oh no… I'm not gonna put that out there.” But I very much felt it coming. This show ends up being about Tae Myung Ha’s suicide, and we end up in an uncertain place about what all we're experiencing with him.

Shan

We started this show thinking that it was a game. And recognizing that the show was dealing with some heavy themes, recognizing that there seemed to be an element of Yeo Woon being a stand-in for Myung Has's need to develop self love. And I don't think we realized how literal that was going to get. It was heavy to realize this character that we had gotten invested in…was gone.

Ben

In her notes, NiNi has a comment about The Good Place relative to this show, so I want to come to you now, NiNi. You went into the show with us basically telling you, “We know you're busy, but in no uncertain terms you must watch [laughs] this show. We will not be telling you about it on the podcast. You will be watching.”

NiNi

So, I actually went in unspoiled, but I did binge it after it was over. It played with genre in away you start up thinking that it's a sci-fi thing where he's trapped in the game, and it ended up being this sort of existential, heavy magical-realism thing. When the game starts malfunctioning is when I realized it all was not quite right in terms of how we were processing originally what the show we thought we were getting is.

In the beginning, it's cool and fun to look at the show as a video game and try to be like, “Oh, there's the NPCs, there's dead pixels, there's the background map." Yes, Ben, I do know game things. Thanks. All the little video game elements of the story. You're picking up on all that and you're having a good time. In the meanwhile, it is giving you flashes of these things. Like, it's giving you that flash of Yeo Woon being the person that he hates the most. The game malfunctioning in little bits and pieces, things like that. You're getting all these hints, but you're not putting them together until something big and catastrophic happens. It's so well done. I was having such a good time with it, and then I get to the end and you realize exactly what's happening, that this is all…it's the gods playing dice, right? It's them saying this is the way that we have decided that you deal with your afterlife.

Ben talked about my note about The Good Place. For me, that's what it was. It was about Myung Ha having to find a way to accomplish the things in death that he didn't accomplish in life, of death not being an ending, of death being an opportunity to still learn and grow, and maybe have a life afterward. Whatever it is that you have to learn to take with you into the next life. Basically, it's Myung Ha learning to pour so much love into himself that he can feel it either in his afterlife or in the next life.

And that idea of death not being the end; people found it bummed them out. I found it really comforting.

Ben

I really want to get into how everybody received this project and the major feelings it engendered in them that they walked away with. Ginny, where are you sitting with this resolution of the show and how you're carrying it forward with you?

Ginny

Good question. It left me feeling, I think, less sad than it might have left you. NiNi compared it to The Good Place. I found myself thinking a lot about The End of the World With You, which is also about characters wrestling with the desire to die—the theme that I often am wary to engage with in stories. But I found both of these to be very affirming and loving towards those characters, while also saying, “What if you made a different choice? Not because it's the natural or the easy thing, but because there's reasons to do that.”

For Tae Myung Ha to turn his focus away from meeting other people's needs and say, “Actually, what if your happiness mattered? What if you gave yourself the love and care that you want to give to this character that you see yourself in?” is such a resonant theme. I came away not needing necessarily to know how I interpret the characters final state or status, but feeling like I'd been gently led through this experience of “Love yourself more. Work to make yourself happy instead of walking into the sea.” It was a very life affirming watch experience for me, although it did have this deep melancholy around it also.

Shan

One of the things I really like about the ending of the show is that it is so open for interpretation. There are no two people who have the exact same interpretation of what the ending means. People took what they needed from it, I think, and what they preferred to believe, and the show left it open for people to be able to do that. I ultimately didn't actually receive this show as a BL or a romance at all.

Important note here perhaps is that I am an atheist and I don't believe in the afterlife. And so for me, this was a show about something really tragic that happened, and maybe being able to be given this small chance to find self love. I don't think Yeo Woon is an actual person that Myung Ha fell in love with. I think he is a representation of Myung Ha's own self and his need to learn to love himself. And so I did find it quite sad and quite melancholy, but in a way that I thought was just so lovely. Such a lovely way to deliver that message about the importance of self love, about the importance of trying, about not giving up. I really loved it. I find it beautiful.

Ben

It's the rare instance where a show ends ambiguously, but the audience is not fighting with each other over the interpretation. As the resident Sad Boy of the podcast team, let me tell you: I chose the saddest interpretation possible for this.

NiNi

[Ben and NiNi laugh] Of course you did, bestie. Absolutely you did.

Shan

You sure did. Even sadder than mine, somehow. [laughs]

Ben

I was talking about the end, and Shan was like, “Damn, Ben shit. [laughs] “You live like this, girl? Shit!”

I was really caught up in the character of the nebulous writer, the God figure, and author of this world, seemingly. I like the idea of someone who clearly cared about his friend not really knowing what to do with his friend's tragedy, and trying to find a way to remember him kindly. I think that's where I connected to, less so in Myung Ha's final moments or afterlife, but more in the grief that the people in his life have to live with after his passing. I like the idea of somebody immortalizing a friend of theirs in an experience where the player is asked to please make him happy.

NiNi

This is why you're the melancholy boy, because I didn't even go there.

Ginny

Yup! [laughs]

Shan

One of the really interesting live discussions that we had was around the role of the game creator—a lot of speculation about who he was, this idea that he was a friend who would lovingly created this place for Myung Ha. And I was like, “No!” because why would a friend force these cruel choices on someone he was trying to help? The cruelest choice that I think really stands out for people in the game is when Myung Ha is forced to choose between saving his grandmother or saving Yeo Woon, and that was a big point of focus for a lot of the speculative discussion.

Who put him in this game and for what reason are we talking about God-like figure who is putting him through trials? Are we talking about a friend who's trying to give him a path to self love? One of the things that I love about this show is that there are so many things like that throughout where you could focus on a thing that happened, or something that was going on in the background, or like an interaction, and you could unpack it and come up with so many different interpretations for it that could be true. The show is just loaded with stuff like that and so many details.

Once you know where the ending is leading, if you go back and watch it from the start, or just think back, there are clues the whole time about the drowning. There are water sounds from the first episode. You can hear water when Myung Ha is in like a certain state. The place that he is talking with this author in is in some kind of otherworldly dimension that never connects to anything else in the show.

NiNi

He always looks wet, his bangs are plastered to his forehead. He always looks like he's soaked.

Shan

They definitely knew what they were doing the whole time, and the show is just loaded with these small details that the production baked in. It's just so well done.

NiNi

The show is basically a Rorschach test. It's so interpretable. It’s hard to do that in a show. It is an incredibly difficult balance to maintain.

Ben

That was part of the fun I had chatting with everybody. Shan was talking about the back and forth we're having where she really rejected my interpretation because she thought a lot of the choices in the game were cruel.

NiNi

I'm on Shan’s side. I think it's a cruel and whimsical God.

Ben

And I was talking about how ugly grief can be sometimes, and how sometimes some of that will come out where you get mad at them. I like that a big part of the resolution from Myung Ha is to reject the bullshit choice of choosing the boy he likes or his grandmother. That seems like the kind of frustration that somebody who's listened to a friend who's suffering fall into a really negative spiral over something that is not a correct way to place things against each other, like an either or in their life. And I interpreted that as sort of a…externalization of their frustration about that kind of stuff.

Shan

And I remember liking that interpretation, Ben. Not really a denial of the cruelty, but like an acknowledgment that sometimes we're cruel to people we love because of our own frustration. I really ended up liking a lot of different interpretations of the show, even if I didn't share them. I really enjoyed reading people's thoughts about it.

Ben

I really like that part a lot. I really loved that everybody took something from this and it was appreciable. Someone gives you their interpretation and you just go, hmm. And then you sit with it for a bit. And there's not a ‘I agree’ or ‘disagree,’ you just receive what that person is connecting to, and you've learned a little bit about somebody else as a result. We didn't talk a lot about the side characters, but I liked Cha Woong Ki in this because he was very funny on Boys Planet, and I really liked what Oh Min Su did with Chun Sang Won, because that boy was a very fun version of queer, and his crush on Tae Myung Ha but we'll get no satisfaction from it.

Shan

[laughs] I remember Ben being very disappointed that we never got to meet Kyung Hoon's boyfriend in Canada.

Ben

Right! We never met the Canadian. I'm so mad. I'm like, “That boy doesn't exist!”

Shan

Yes! And I said, “Ben, you're not allowed to meet the Canadian partner. That's the joke!”

NiNi

That's literally the joke. You go to a different school. You don't know them. That's the joke.

Ben

Yeah, but you showed me—what's that show—Goblin? We went to Maple Nation! We can go find him!

Shan

I do think maybe one of the consequences of the way the show ended and how that absorbed our attention is that the side characters got maybe a little bit of short shrift. Who are they? Are they players in the game? Are they characters in the game? Are they real? They kind of got lost a little bit, but those performances were great, and I really liked the dynamics between the characters inside the game.

NiNi

So ratings, let's start with you, Ginny.

Ginny

I gave it a 9. I thought it was really excellent. Beautifully done. A really good experience. As a story, it's not something that I want to go back to.

Ben

Shannon.

Shan

I also gave it a 9. I do think that there was some fuzziness here and there. It was short, and there were maybe some shortcuts that had to be taken because of the time that they had. It didn't quite get to the 10 level for me. It's a strong recommendation with a big trigger warning caveat about some of the really heavy content that it gets into, and I'm leaving it at a 9.

Ben

NiNi?

NiNi

So, I gave it a 9.5, and the reason that I gave it a 9.5 is I often come to this show and to our watches in the spirit of “let things play out and see what happens.” Because of doing this show, I have become a long view kind of person, and so, on an episode-by-episode basis, I now tend to give things a lot more latitude as being links in a chain. I am always the one here being like, “Okay, it did this, but you don't know what they're going to do next. Let's give it some space.” And I think that this show, I think more than any other show that I've watched, has really rewarded that way of processing it for me. The fact that I let it play out, and let it play out, and let it play out, in the end, it tied everything back up that I had noticed.

Ben

I gave the show a 9. It ends ambiguously and the audience does not have consensus. I think that is a totally fine choice, but considering how heavy this show was, I don't know how I feel about how much of the audience just walked away only connecting to the BL romance arc of it, and so it's a 9 for me from a recommendation standpoint. I have to gauge the viewer when I'm recommending it to them, because I don't know that the viewer ends in the same place with the show, and I'm not entirely certain where the show even wants us to land. I think it's fine for the show to turn that mirror back on us at the end as a completely valid choice, but it complicates it as a recommendation.

NiNi

It’s 9 from The Conversation.

Ben

I think a 9 is a valid recommendation from us. It is a worthwhile show to watch if you are okay contemplating suicide and the social impacts of that.

NiNi

Well...should we end on a joke after that?

Shan

[laughs] I was gonna say! Maybe we should not end on such a sad note. [NiNi laughs]

01:13:39 - Outro

Ginny

I am really excited that we're getting more and more genre BL. It's something that I've been eager to see. Me and NiNi probably are the most forgiving viewers. I love seeing shows take wild swings, even if they end up kind of missing. So my feelings overall are: Bring it on, bring us some wacky combinations, give us some things that make us incredibly moody. Let's expand this media world and give us BL with all of these other genre flavors added. I love it.

Shan

I'm agreeing with Ginny on that. I think it's cool to see BL venture outside of the basic middle of the road romcom model that it started in and really try out some new stuff and its storytelling. I do appreciate when shows are going to go into genre that they have a firm grasp on the genre that they're playing in, and that they try to meet the standards and expectations of those genres. I think the shows that we discussed today—mostly—really came to play in the genres that they were in, put together some really interesting, provocative stuff, gave us a lot to think about. And I'm really excited to get more of that in BL.

NiNi

I really enjoy good genre blend. All genres have their own conventions, and I enjoy when people who are writing in those genres are playing with the conventions, and they understand them, and they know how to bend them and twist them, and maybe even in some cases break them. It's interesting watching BL experiment with that—to different levels of success, granted. But I like watching it happen though.

Ben

What I really like about genre blending and BL is it gives these creators a chance to really say something, and there was some of that here. I think the Playboyy team had things they wanted to say, but they made a goddamn mess of it. I walked away from Dead Friend Forever and Love for Love's Sake with a lot that I was thinking about in response to the narrative and the events that the shows wanted to unpack. And even though I didn't manage to finish 7 Days Before Valentine at the time, I was with them for this examination of Sunshine’s character, and the nature of his relationship, and the selfishness at the core of his character and unpacking that.

This was a really cool experience beyond just, “There's two pretty boys. They smile a lot. There's some juice. They're going to kiss.” Which was a really nice change of pace. Despite the sort of mixed responses we may have had here, I really enjoy that the space exists enough to allow the people who have the money to let people try to do stuff like this.

NiNi

Okay, and on that note, that is going to wrap us up on this Genre Grab Bag. Next up in Part 2, we're gonna talk about some Japanese BL.

We out. Say bye to the people—in chorus—1, 2, 3.

Ginny and Shan

Bye.

Ben

Peace. [Ginny laughs]

NiNi

Oh, my God, y’all are so bad at this.

#playboyy the series #love for love's sake #dead friend forever #7 days before valentine #ben and nini's conversations #podcast #the conversation #lgbtq #on art #spring series #thai bl #bl series #korean bl #Spotify

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resowrites · 1 year

Text

Hot Seat - oneshot.

Summary: Henry is interviewed about life post-The Witcher…

Characters: AU!Henry Cavill, Wife!OC, Interviewer

Warnings: fluff, banter/British humour, nondescript OC body type/appearance, hastily written/lightly proofread.

WC: 2817

A/N: This is something a bit different so I hope you all enjoy. Not that I should have to point it out but as with all my work, it’s pure fiction (as in completely made up) and not in any way meant to reflect reality. As ever, let me know your thoughts - R x

My work must not be copied, reposted, or translated elsewhere. Likes, follows, reblogs and comments are thoroughly welcome and appreciated! Gifs/pics not my own. I hope you all enjoy and thanks for visiting!

Hot Seat - oneshot.

My first thought upon starting my interview with Henry Cavill is that I must have got my lines crossed. Instead of the 39-year-old Jersey-born actor, the featureless wall on the screen in front of reveals a woman. She quickly introduces herself and apologises for his absence. "Our puppy got into a multipack of toilet rolls and is still wreaking havoc, but he'll be right with you." This, as it turns out, is his partner Ollie. The 33-year-old financial advisor (she politely asks me not to give her full name as apparently "the people who care already know it"), has been with the actor for the better part of a decade though it's seldom publicised. They're occasionally pictured together but Henry, known for being one of the more private Hollywood actors, has given away few details about the relationship.

This, however, doesn't stop her from graciously chatting with me while we await his arrival. Having a son with her name, I ask if it's short for something else. "No, just Ollie. My parents were fans of Laurel and Hardy," she says with a shrug. So she's not actually Olivia? "Nope, though I suppose it could have been worse, they could have called me Stan," she replies drily. I tell her my wife and I are expecting a girl in the summer. "Oh how lovely - don't give her a boy's name." Duly noted. I then ask after Kal, Henry's longtime canine companion, and she assures me he's still alive and kicking. So what prompted the puppy? "Anniversary gift," she says between sips of water, though she doesn't give a name or clarify who gifted who. Moving on, I ask if she has any tips for interviewing Henry. "Talk slowly," comes her immediate response. It's not difficult to see how he fell for her, big twinkly eyes and a throaty laugh betray a quick wit that's similar to his own. I venture to ask what it's like being in a relationship with him. "Agonising. I mean his looks alone, I'm at a loss," she deadpans before another laugh. And the fame? "Honestly, it's not something I really think about. Our day-to-day life is very normal."

As if on cue, Henry enters the room with a large and very fluffy puppy trying to wriggle free of his arms. His eyes flash briefly with concern but she gives him a reassuring smile, thanks me for my patience, and wishes me well. She then pats Henry on the chest, tells him to behave himself, and disappears with the puppy in tow. The screen now fills with his impressive frame though his demeanour is infinitely milder - if slightly harried. "My apologies John. Akita's - can't live with them, can't live without them." Much has been made of the peaks and troughs of his Hollywood career. At one point in the early aughts, he'd missed out on multiple high-profile roles (Henry Cavill: Hollywood's unluckiest actor?) Finally bagging Superman in 2013 with Zack Snyder's Man of Steel, he proved capable of big returns and even bigger popularity (Henry Cavill: Superman for a new generation).

In 2013's Man of Steel (image credit: Warner Bros.)

This makes news of his recent departure from both Netflix's The Witcher (ostensibly because of creative differences), and DC's Superman franchise (due to the recent hiring of James Gunn as the studio's creative leader), all the more stupefying. But whether or not he really is Hollywood's 'unluckiest' actor, this isn't a term that reflects his life outside of the job, something which definitely marks him out from his contemporaries. In addition to a much-protected relationship (neither he nor his publicist confirms the status of it despite appearing to wear a wedding ring), he hails from a loving family and has a close-knit group of friends. He withdrew from a recent project (for reasons unrelated to the project itself), but is now in talks to appear in and produce an adaptation of Warhammer 40, 000 after Amazon recently secured the rights to the popular tabletop game.

In 2019's The Witcher (image credit: Netflix)

It's actually not the first time I've met Henry. Our paths once crossed some years ago in a hotel lobby though this brief encounter was part of a jam-packed press tour. Today's meeting isn't scheduled for a considerably longer time, but there's more than enough to discuss. A colleague did however warn me that despite a more ingenuous nature, he can make for a difficult interviewee. For the first part of our interview, I would be inclined to agree. Though pleasant, his answers border on glib and this is perhaps unsurprising given the recent twists and turns of his career. Happily, he warms up as our fourty minutes go by and on this occasion, is more revealing about life away from the cameras…

J: First thing's first, are you watching the Six Nations (an annual international men's rugby union competition)?

H: Yeah, it's been dismal though (England won just two out of five matches)… doesn't bode well for the World Cup does it?

J: No it doesn't. Now I know you can't say much at the moment about more recent as well as upcoming projects, but I wanted to get your take on the development of IPs for modern audiences. More than ever it seems a rather precarious business…

H: I think that's a fair assessment. There's lots of competition and only a finite amount of resources, so balancing what audiences want against the financial gains is tricky.

J: So what's the solution?

H: Are you trying to get me into trouble (laughs)? It depends. I mean, you can experiment a bit more with big projects. But for niche ventures, I think it's probably better to lean on the source material and fanbases already there.

J: But do you think there's a general fatigue with certain genres at the moment?

H: Perhaps, but that's why it's all the more important to look at the project as a whole. More often than not, if a project sinks it's on the project, not the audience.

J: Surely events such as the pandemic have had a huge impact though?

H: Yeah, definitely. But I don't think it's that difficult to produce big and/or successful entertainment because if anything, the need has never been stronger. It may just require studios to slow down a bit and think harder about each stage of development.

J: Do you feel more at peace with your career these days?

H: I would say so. I mean it's not an industry you ever feel secure in because that's not really the nature of it. But I still feel the same rush and excitement. I think there's a tendency to forget that actors act for the same reason people enjoy consuming our work. We like to escape and have fun as well.

J: What has it taught you about yourself?

H: Well for one it's bettered my patience (laughs). There's also nothing like acting to improve your physique (laughs).

J: Do you still feel the same pressures to look and perform a certain way?

H: I mean to an extent it's just the expectation and I completely respect that - if you're spending millions bringing, say, Superman to life, whoever plays him must at the very least, look like him.

J: And what are your thoughts now that that franchise will be moving ahead without you?

H: Well, for one, I'm not as devastated as everyone seems to think (laughs). I had a blast making those films and I was looking forward to expanding on what was created but the workouts were something else. As were the press tours (laugh).

J: Would you say that's one of the biggest drawbacks now for actors?

H: I suppose. I mean who honestly wants to be hooked up to a lie detector and asked leading questions (laughs)? I find it a bit unfair at times. I'm not suggesting for one minute that actors aren't immensely lucky or privileged. Of course, what we do is comparatively easy. But the amount of exposure will always be a double-edged sword, no question.

J: You've said in the past you're not a huge fan of social media, do you think it's essential to what you do?

H: Perhaps not essential but it's undeniably very useful. And I have no issue in sharing parts of my life with those who find it interesting. But I also don’t see the harm in a bit of mystery, there's no need to upload and share absolutely everything.

J: More male stars are speaking up about the double standards in how they're treated by fans and the wider public. Are those sentiments you share?

H: Yes and no. I mean most of the time it's harmless and of course very flattering, but I think it's always best to put others at ease rather than risk making them uncomfortable. Of course, everyone has different ideas on how to do that (laughs) but as the old saying goes, do unto others…

J: I imagine it's different when that attention is also directed at those closest to you?

H: Oh absolutely. My friends and family didn't sign up for that but luckily they're good-natured about it.

J: It seems the lines are becoming more and more blurred though…

H: Yeah, and that's a shame. But it's also why you need to be prudent about how much of it you elicit and engage in.

J: But do you take issue with the amount of gossip? I imagine it's hard knowing it's out there when there's not much you can do about it.

H: I try and look for the silver linings, I mean if people are that invested it means you at least have some relevance still. Besides, I have a very happy, successful life outside of what I do and that makes all the difference.

J: I am curious to know how you've managed to make that work…

H: Well I don't want to give the impression that it's easy because it's not. Spending so much time away from the people you love is easily the worst thing about this job and it's something I'm always trying to improve.

J: You're also approaching 40, has that caused you to stop and take stock?

H: Thanks for the reminder (laughs). Nah I'm in a good place about it actually. Well, for now… (laughs).

J: Are there any roles, in particular, you still wish to play?

H: Not really. I think most people see me as an action star and I'm happy to remain so. It seems to be what I excel at though I've also enjoyed branching out into more comedic roles. More of those would be nice.

J: So you've no burning desires for the future? What about regrets?

H: I wouldn't say that (laughs). There's some stuff I've yet to get around to, as for regrets I've very few.

J: Such as?

H: Well, some of the films I've made for starters (laughs). Although that's not really fair as there's always something to take away from those experiences.

J: What about personally?

H: Um (pauses), nothing springs to mind. I wish I'd met my better half a lot sooner. But we've been together for over seven years so I can't complain.

J: If I remember rightly you'd just started seeing each other the last time we spoke.

H: That's right! God, where's the time gone?

J: How were the lockdowns for you both?

H: You know, as scary and traumatic as that time was, I can honestly say it reaffirmed to me that I'd made the right choices.

J: Did she feel similarly?

H: Perhaps not at first (laughs).

J: You certainly seem to share the same sense of humour. You know she introduced herself as the maid?

H: (Looks around) I hope you didn't fall for it… (laughs). And she's far more warped, trust me. She's just better at hiding it (laughs).

J: Care to give some examples?

H: Oh God, where do I start (laughs)? To be honest I'm not sure I can without making her look completely mad… though that wouldn't be an unfair assessment (laughs) (slight pause). She's a nightmare to text. Her idea of messaging me usually involves repeating a word until I manage to guess what on earth she's on about (laughs). I was in London a few days back and I messaged her asking how her morning had gone and she just kept responding with the word 'log' (laughs). So there I was, in a meeting with my business manager, trying to figure out at the back of my mind what she meant. Did she want to log a complaint (laughs)? Was I supposed to bring home a chocolate log? Did we need more firewood (laughs)? Turns out she'd just tripped over one while walking the dogs. See? Mad (grins).

J: My wife's like that but with GIFs.

H: Yeah, I get those less often but to maximum effect (laughs). Like I remember when I was getting fitted for the suits I wore in The Man from Uncle. I sent her a picture of my favourite and she immediately winged back a gif of Sterling Archer (from FX's 2009 animated sitcom Archer) (laughs).

J: Is she indifferent to what you do?

H: It's not that she's indifferent, she's just not taken in by it and thank God because it helps keep me sane.

J: So she likes to keep you on your toes?

H: Oh yeah, our life's never dull (laugh). The last time I was away filming, I'd stupidly warned her beforehand not to go anywhere near this rare Warhammer figurine that a friend sent me. So cue the photos of it in the dust container of the Dyson, at the edge of Kal's food bowl as his face was in it… she even sent me one of it in the washing machine just as it was filling up with water. That one warranted a phone call (laughs).

J: Oh dear. Did it survive?

H: Annoyingly it was absolutely fine… she's done worse (laughs).

J: Such as?

H: Er, well there was the time I was in New Zealand shooting the helicopter sequence for Mission Impossible: Fallout. I've talked about it before so I'm not going to rehash it but the conditions were extreme so everyone was pretty miserable. What made it worse was that a few weeks before, she'd broken her hand - the story of how she did that is actually funnier than the one I'm about to tell—

J: What happened?

H: … No, I can't say. She'd kill me (laughs). Anyway, being halfway across the world I couldn't get back to her and was in a bit of a state about it. So to cheer me up, one afternoon she sends me a video of her at the physio's office and in it (laughs)… she's wearing one of those old-fashioned prosthetic split hooks (laughs). What's amazing is how she somehow managed to rope the physio in, like as soon as he comes into the room she puts her phone down so as not to film him (laughs).

J: Where on earth did she get a split hook?

H: I know right? She told me Etsy but God knows… apparently the physio provided the arm it was attached to (laughs). So there I was, suspended above the Southern Alps, laughing the hardest I've ever laughed in my life.

J: Did you show it to Tom Cruise?

H: Oh yeah.

J: And what did he say?

H: She's a keeper (laughs). I'd play it for you but it got deleted when I changed phones a little while back.

J: Well, that's disappointing. What happened to the hook?

H: When I finally came home we had some champagne to celebrate and when I went to the drawer, I found she'd chucked it in there with the bottle openers (laughs).

J: Are there any more stories you can share?

H: Yeah, but I think I've said enough (laughs).

J: What makes the two of you such a good match do you think?

H: She's got a long fuse which certainly helps (laughs). We were just meant for each other (shrugs).

J: Did it feel that way quite early on? I know it did with my wife.

H: Oh yeah, almost instantly. When you know, you know.

A week after we meet I receive a gift at the office - a box of homemade cookies (which are heavenly) and a beautiful baby blanket. Accompanied is a note which first apologises for the gift's tardiness 'Henry ate the first batch,' thanks me for a good interview and then encourages some skepticism of the tales told as 'they're only mostly true.' Either way, I concede that he is indeed a lucky man.

Enola Holmes 2 is on Netflix.

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#henry cavill #henry cavill fandom #henry cavill fanfiction #henry cavill x reader #henry cavill imagine

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sims4bradshaw · 4 months

Text

Presenting: Warlltwork™ - Bradshaw Interior Furnishings Co.'s newest production!

download + more pics under the cut like always :D

Made some artwork bcus I feel like no matter what, I never have enough! They're recolors of the butterfly wall art cus I've always loved that item. Hope you enjoy!!! PLZ Lmk if you have any issues! Also ik the name is sorta silly .... but what are sims items names if not a little silly 🖼️

INFO + PREVIEWS: I split this up into three different parts, so there are 3 different files.

The first part is geared more towards illustrations and stuff like that. It has 13 designs and 39 swatches total. The second one is fabric art. It has 15 designs and 45 swatches total. The third is photographs, it has 17 designs and 51 swatches total! The reason I split them up is because it's too many swatches lol. They all cost 65!!!

DOWNLOADS: ZIP DOWNLOAD (DROPBOX) - zip file with all three parts PSD DOWNLOAD (DROPBOX) - a photoshop file with the frame colors and set up so you can make your own! like i said, this is just a recolor of the basegame butterfly wall art but if you don't wanna make it plain and all that u can just use my template. If you do use it and end up posting it I'd love a tag <3 but no pressure. PATREON

ARTWORK ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS: Peach artwork by Allec Gonzales on Unsplash Girl with Cat by Zedekiah Belknap (public domain/via wikimedia commons) archive.org stock image CD-roms flyn-hawn on eBay (flower embroidery) common threads on eBay/crewell (hot air balloon)

@alwaysfreecc @sssvitlanz @maxismatchccworld @public-ccfinds @mmfinds <3 thank you to anyone who decides to download

#sims4bradshaw #mycc #sims 4 maxis match #sims 4 cc #sims 4 buy cc #2024

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lovelyladyabsinthewrites · 11 months

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Love Song for a Vampire Pt.33

Pairing(s): Edward Cullen x Wolf!Reader, Jacob Black x Witch!OC

Warnings:none

Words:3864

Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Part 7 Part 8 Part 9 Part 10 Part 11 Part 12 Part 13 Part 14 Part 15 Part 16 Part 17 Part 18 Part 19 Part 20 Part 21 Part 22 Part 23 Part 24 Part 25 Part 26 Part 27 Part 28 Part 29 Part 30 Part 31 Part 32 Part 34 Part 35 Part 36 Part 37 Part 38 Part 39

You're awaken in the early morning hours by sharp taps on your window.

Unable to ignore them anymore, you groan and roll onto your side. You had summer school in four hours. What could possibly be important enough to ruin your good sleep? You'd certainly have to give an earful to whoever it was that woke you.

Pulling up the shades of your window you see Quil and Embry outside.

Reluctantly you open your window. "What are you guys doing?"

"He's here."

"They're here."

They both seem to talk at the same time. There could be many connotations to who they could be referring to. A member of the Volturi was the first to pop in your head before you whisper out "Who?"

Embry holds onto you with his warm eyes. "Evita's friends."

Friends. As in plural.

You shut the window without another word so you could hastily get dressed and join them. Scrawling a note and leaving it on the kitchen table, you explain to your parents in case they wake up before you get back that you would still go to school regardless of what was going on.

The three of you weave through the trees deciding to go the back way. At this hour, it would be odd for someone to find three kids running through the streets. Your phone had died which explained why you hadn't known the news as soon as it happened. Quil and Embry though received a text from Sam that called for immediate action. Anyone whom the wolves aren't familiar with had to meet the pack. This served to familiarize the newcomer's scent for future reference and also to check them out and see if they are trustworthy enough to even pass through our land.

A familiar aroma of magic makes your brain feel tingling. They feel it too as you notice Quil actually stumbles a little bit from the heady sensation.

As you got closer, you bumped into both Leah and Seth on their way as well as Collin who was tiredly rubbing at his eyes. No one spoke. Too excited and in a hurry to reach what Seth had once called HQ. Which for your pack it basically was. All pack and most elder meetings took place there.

The two newcomers sat on either side of Evita inside of the living room. A boy and a girl. They both appeared weary from their travels but have a hand on Evita's lap. Dieufel, who you guess is the boy, is hastily wiping his eyes with his free hand; uncaring of who spotted his stray tears. "She was a warm spirit."

They must have been talking about Letizia. The wolves remain quiet until the guests are ready to introduce themselves. Dieufel was the darkest of the three witches sitting on the couch and already you could feel wisps of power wafting off of him. Just sitting there his presence was an enchanting enigma.

Dieufel had to be in his early twenties, exuding an aura of both mystery and vibrancy. His eyes the color of deep onyx holds a glimmer of ancient wisdom that you'd never seen on a face so young. Thick, dark lashes frame his dark eyes that add a touch of allure to his already striking features. Short, dreaded hair like tightly coiled springs are dyed a lighter shade of brown. His attire seems to blend seamlessly with his persona speaking of his connection to both the modern world and the ancient realms of magic. He has quite the elegant speech pattern that reminds you a little of how Edward spoke. He was proper when introducing himself. "Thank you for taking care of Evita during this time." He'd turned to Sam to say. "For your good will, we will join your cause although it sounds like quite the dangerous objective."

Skin as rich and warm as the finest mahogany, Dieufel inclines his head toward the other female on the opposite side of Evita. With this action you catch the sparkle of a gold earring hanging from one of his lobes. "This is my cousin Nadege."

Good looks must run in the family. Nadege smiles brightly at everyone and stands, almost towering over even Sam himself. Her cheekbones were high and fine, emphasizing her large olive green eyes. Her hair gave off a dark purple sheen, weaved into complicated braids that you admire as she moves to enthusiastically shake hands with the perplexed wolves. Nadege greets everyone with a warm, heavily accented 'hello'. "We've flown so far to meet you all! Once Evita called, we took to the sky immediately."

A few members were perplexed by her overall bubbly attitude but smile. It was always a joy to meet non-volatile supernatural beings.

Her features were expressive as she goes on to lament "Oh we were terribly broken to hear that brise took our Leti from this world. You know it killed another one of us just last year too."

As if used to hearing his cousin's ramblings, Dieufel gently puts a hand on her arm to draw her attention. "Kouzen, kalme ou. You'll scare them off." This earns him a rueful glare from Nadege who apparently didn't like being interrupted.

Sam chuckles. "It's alright. The pack is glad to have you here as well. I'm sure Evita has caught you both up on our situation."

Dieufel nods. "Yes she did. Can't say I've ever encountered anyone from the Volturi specifically."

"I didn't even know who they are." Nadege pipes in.

He rolls his pretty eyes but overall ignores her little comments. She reminds you of a chirping bird. Turning to Evita, he adds "I learned about the Volturi when staying with your family. The traveling witch who had stopped for a respite told us about them. So much power concentrated like that is bound to lead to disaster."

Evita nods. "Yes. I have finished one ward to prepare for their arrival."

"I can tell." replies Dieufel as he eyes her still exhausted face.There's color back in her face but the blue, bruise-like shadows are still stamped underneath her eyes. Overall, Evita's energy is lower as well which would tip off anyone who knew he well enough. "And how many more do you need?"

It wasn't necessary to reply. From the sour expression Evita scrunches her face into, Dieufel learns that the quantity was more than three. He hisses out a sigh at the workload ahead but isn't angry. Of course he'll do anything for his adopted spirit sister. Plus Evita was young and still didn't have much control over her magic. She could only summon a small amount of it at a time. Not like Leti who would have been able to create two wards in one day though it would definitely debilitate her for the following week.

Nadege speaks more in that fast language you don't understand, nudging her older cousin with her sharp elbow. Her long, full lashes flutter when she narrows her light colored eyes at Dieufel. "We can make up the rest. Or are you weak?" She teases with a goading smirk and hands on her hips. Lips, dark and glossy, curl in a devilish upward flick. A few of the wolves chuckle at her boldness. Even Sam's body jerks in a silent laugh at their familiarity. A connection that was similar to the pack. Blood was not what tied them, but genuine respect and affection. It reminds you of the relationship between the older wolves: Sam, Jared and Paul. They were brothers in all but genetics. You considered them your own older brothers, guiding and protective.

A giggle leaves Evita and she leans against Dieufel's shoulder comfortably. The first familiar touch she's had in a while. You're happy for her and notice her face soften and finally relax. She must have been on edge since her sister left home.

"Of course we will help." Dieufel says with a lazy smile. He pats Evita's head and makes the top curls bounce in reply. "But I don't know their specific powers, like your Edward's mind reading." The last part is addressed toward you.

"He's told me. I can easily have him write down the members he knows and their special abilities. The Volturi will have many of them on staff." You remember Edward telling you that they've spent hundreds of years collecting vampires with special powers. And damn did you want to hope that maybe, just maybe, you'll be able to keep the Volturi at bay. They could be strong enough to keep them out forever. That would be too perfect. Your life had proved anything but perfect the past several months. You didn't expect it to be.

That makes the others of your pack bristle. What other powers could be out there that they don't know about? Mind reading and seeing the future had been quite the shock to many. Too much maybe.

Brady and Collin exchange slightly anxious glances, knowing that this kind of talk was feeling a lot like a preparation for war. Wolves they were, but baby fat was still evident on their faces. In about a month it would be gone, chiseled away into manhood. Sam would make sure in that time that they would be ready for battle if it called upon them. They'd been kept away from Victoria's army, but they wouldn't be spared from fighting the Volturi. Barely entering high school in two months, your heart goes out to them. At least you had been granted time to enjoy the beginning of your high school years. There wasn't much to enjoy but you could claim that it had been your own.

Dieufel ponders for a second before nodding. "Alright. What is the deadline?"

Wolves anxiously peer at one another. The answer wasn't ideal.

It made Nadege's eyes round from what Sam told them. Which was "Anytime now."

Credulously, Dieufel shoots his dark gaze at Evita who shrugs and speaks Spanish. Dieufel exchanges his own words in her native tongue and you could hear the worry in his voice. Evita switches to English when she notices several pairs of eyes on her. "Besides, we might have another pair of helping hands soon enough." At that, Evita flicks her eyes over to you. Now the pack's attention centered on you. You'd grown used to it by now. Being the one to freaking imprint on a vampire will do that to you though.

You address the room, more so Sam to fill him in. "Evita says Bella has potential to wield magic."

Jared and Paul are comically confused. "Bella Swan?"

Ignoring the whispers spread through the room, Sam uses his authority as alpha to bring people back to attention. Dieufel and Nadege look thoroughly impressed. When the room is once more quiet, Sam asks Evita "Is it possible for her to learn?"

Dieufel stiffly nods. "Yes. . . it's possible but I do not recommend crash courses in magic. More than anything it is an artform which one should take the most care with. Your intentions may be good but if you are not properly trained, it can blow up in your face."

"Bella can do it." Insisting and also wanting to have Bella's back, you tell them what Jake told you. How smart she was and even got a spot in the high school's AP sciences and math. "She really wants to help."

You never expect Leah to agree with you. "The very least she can do is try it out." Better yet, Leah looked Sam straight in the eye with equal determination. "This is her fault after all."

Sam does a good job not to gawk at Leah addressing him as she hadn't so much as looked at him since the whole Emily drama.

He takes Leah's interest seriously although he is suspicious about her motives. Silently Sam consents with a nod. "You're right. The least any of us can do is try. (y/n), can you get into contact with Bella? Or would you rather-"

He knew it may be awkward for you to talk to Bella considering you were the reason why her and Edward broke up. "I don't mind. I'll call her after I get out of class."

That way everyone could have a rest before the real work began. **

Leah was the first one to leave. She didn't know what possessed her to be so vocal about Bella trying her hand at magic. Maybe it was because she wanted Dieufel to look at her and really see her.

A fluke, she'd put it to when she first saw Dieufel. Of course she would be attracted to him, he was gorgeous and his eyes would make any woman envious of his perfect lashes. The speeding of her heart was just one of intense attraction.

This wasn't-this couldn't be imprinting. Leah refused to even compare it to what she was feeling.

In order to not rise any suspicion, she'd managed to keep her features calm . She couldn't let anyone else know. Wasn't the reason why they kept Jacob's imprinting a secret to protect Evita and not cause added stress? Damn. Why him? Why now? Leah felt her steady descent into mental decay. She felt raving mad.

Feet stumbling to the forest line, Leah runs for it. Home. She needed to get home. That was a safe place. At least it used to before her father died. Now she fell into one waking nightmare after another. Blindly groping in the dark for something to anchor herself to so she wouldn't be swept up in the void. Everything was out of her control. What little control she had. When (y/n) imprinted on Edward, Leah half worried that she would imprint on a blood sucker too. Her and (y/n) were anomalies among the all male wolf pack. Even in the wolf's history there had been very few female warriors who inherited the gift of the moon.

She'd prayed to whoever would listen that she would never imprint and lose that freedom in picking her own partner. Her heart wasn't healed yet from Sam. Being in any kind of relationship was not of importance to Leah.

Leaning against the trunk of a tree to catch her breath, Leah felt absolutely fucked. Everyone would know the moment she transformed thanks to the stupid pack telepathy.

You slunk back into your bed. You had two more hours before you had to be up and ready for school. Only a few more days then you could attend to the business of protecting La Push and Forks. Bella managed to get good grades all while dealing with murderous vampires. What was her secret, you wonder to yourself. Many of the wolves hadn't been so lucky.

There was no point trying to sleep. Meeting Dieufel and Nadege wired you up. You'd wanted to stay but were reminded that they too were tired from their travels and would need all of their energy. Fair enough. Amped up like when you first met Evita, you suppose it's the magic of their being that energizes you so.

When the time came, you grabbed your backpack and let your dad drop you off at the rez' high school. You did your best to try and pay attention. Someone simply wouldn't let you though. Embry was just as excited as you were about the new arrivals and all the 'cool shit' they would do. Several times the both of you were hushed by the instructor forced into school as well. From years of goofing off in class, you and Embry were masters at passing notes subtly that neither of you were ever caught. He wrote of his doubts that Bella could actually do magic like them. She was the most helpless thing out there and to think that she had power all along was a little more than upsetting to him. But how could she have known though? You argue back. This back and forth helps to pass the time until you're both racing out the doors, grateful to be done for the day.

You wouldn't waste time stopping by your place to drop off your backpack. Embry followed your line of thinking and keeps pace with you. During your snack break that they allowed you, you'd texted Bella to meet you at Sam's. She'd replied that she'd be there. A quick text had been sent to Edward as well to keep him up to date on what was going on. He said he'd let Dieufel and Nadege settle in before bombarding them with his own family.

Neither you or Embry were expecting to find the tribe elders lined up at Sam's front door. You frown looking from one withered face to another. They looked upset. Sam was bravely facing off against them, keeping his voice level so you couldn't hear the words exchanged.

Paul pulls away from Sam's side to greet you. "Head in through the backdoor."

"What's going on with the elders?" Embry inquires while keeping his focus on the older men.

He grimaces and runs a hand through his short black hair. "They don't like the idea of three witches here. They're worried that the magic they're doing will attract more outsiders. More danger for everyone else."

Not allowing you to say anything else, Paul ushers both of you around the back of the house and through the screen of the back door. It led into the cozy but cramped kitchen where Quil was already there with Seth, Brady, Colin and Nadege. The boys were completely enamored with her, that was clear. And you wouldn't blame them. Like her cousin, Nadege was stunning and her personality added to her overall attractiveness. She was friendly and laughed without restraint at something Quil had said while placing an innocent hand on his forearm.

You notice Quil's ears turn a vibrant pink hue. Oh, he was smitten with the witch. He had a stupid grin on his face that was painfully obvious. The second hand embarrassment wasn't too bad since Nadege didn't seem to notice. When she saw you, her eyes crinkle and attention now directly at you. "(y/n)! I don't think I got to meet you before! Evita told me about you." Okay, maybe you were a little smitten with her too now. She was just so warm and pretty you couldn't help your brain going stupid in front of her.

Was this part of her magic? Maybe it was just her natural charm over people. Her reactions appear genuine though.

"It's nice to meet you too." You earnestly grin. She was such a warm person.

"I was just telling your pack brothers how Dieufel and I flew all the way over here. They weren't aware we were shapeshifters too!" She chuckles and you notice her prominent dimples.

"R-Really?" You'd never another animal shape shifter before. Surely Evita would have told you.

She nods. "While our family has always had magic in our blood, we also have another advantage. From as far back as our lineage goes, our ancestors have been able to turn into red-tailed hawks. Much like your own wolf warriors, our animal forms are larger than the actual species."

You were baffled. That was definitely something worth mentioning from Evita. A reminder that the world was so much larger than you could ever imagine.

Brady was beyond thrilled at the information and looked damn near giddy at the prospect of the great big world you were living in. They didn't see the potential danger that you and the older members saw. With such a large world, there were bound to be bigger creatures that could kill you. While you were definitely in recovery from your encounter with Xiomara, you weren't near cured enough to subdue the chill that seized the base of your spine and had you remembering those dark and evil eyes. They continued to haunt you, her claws were branded into your cheek. Three cruel lines that curve from the height of your cheekbone to the curve of your jaw. You remember your mother crying when she first saw them. The despair that she couldn't hide. She could have lived all her life without seeing the evidence of the reality you lived in.

If you were a better daughter. . .

No. You couldn't dwell on your own insecurities. You don’t have to keep going back to that place.

Going back to that vulnerable time with Xiomara did not serve you any purpose. You knew you had to move past that point in time although it was the one you held tightly in your memory.

A bit breathlessly you ask "Can we see?"

Nadege's smile widens; her limbs elongate and bones shift, her clothes become large as her body morphs to accommodate her changing form. Feathers sprout from her skin, first small and downy, then they grew larger and more vibrant with each breath she exhaled. Her arms stretch into wings adorned with fiery red feathers that blend with cream and brown feathers. Traces of her human self fade. The ground seems to retreat beneath her, and she instively spread her newly-formed wings, ready to take flight. Exhilaration washes over her as she looks down to you and the other boys. Dish towels flutter against the breeze she kicks up with her massive wings. She'd easily transformed into a majestic red-tailed hawk, master of the skies and dancer of the wind.

You're surprised how elegant she was, avoiding bumping into the ceiling fan and anything else that could get caught in her wingspan. She'd been beautiful in her human form; utterly breathtaking in her animal form. She shows off a bit, aware of the universal beauty she possessed.

"Forgive my cousin." Dieufel's voice comes out with a bit of a laugh to it. "She has always been known to be quite the bit of the showoff."

Hawk-Nadege shrieks at him and dives for his face but Dieufel easily reaches out and grabs her by her thin bird legs. She continues to half-hearedl thrash against his grip. It wasn't tight enough to hurt her but forbade Nadege from escaping his grip. She was more so annoyed than angry.

The spell breaks over Quil and the other young wolves as they blink away the dream-like filter that had been lowered over their vision.

Nadege's beak attempts to peck at Dieufel's cheek but he's aware of her tricks and keeps her at a distance. You can't help but laugh at how expressive Nadege was in her hawk form. The others, broken from whatever charm she had over them, bust out laughing.

You still couldn't believe how easily Evita and her friends merged into the pack. Already it felt like you had known them for years. They introduced so much more of the world to our small pack. Paul, from standing near them didn't even seem to mind the different knowledge that they brought with them. He laughs along with everyone else as the large hawk squirms and fights against Dieufel's hold.

In this light moment there was hope for the future. Something you desperately held onto. Hope would be your anchor.

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ciaossu-imagines · 2 months

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Day 3 prompt 3 nr 39 for varia squad, thw vongola tenths and if you want also the millefiore?

Of course, my dear! Thank you so much for the request and I hope you’ll enjoy my thoughts, even though I know they differ quite a bit from yours on some of the characters!

What is the most common source of arguments with the character’s life partner(s)?

Tsuna and Ryohei’s most common source of arguments with their respective partners actually run quite a bit along the same lines. Both of their partners will have issues with accepting the fact that both of these men will hide a lot from their partners. In both cases, these men believe they’re doing the right thing. In their minds, they want to shelter their partners from the harsh realities of mafia life and they don’t want to make their partners worry or hurt. But the fact of it, coming from the side of their partner, is that it will make their partner feel as if these men don’t trust them or see them as weaker and just something to be protected and set aside from the rest of their lives. It’s nearly impossible to keep a relationship alive when one party feels as if the other sees them as less than or if one party feels like the other doesn’t trust and respect them. Tsuna and Ryohei do have their points, but they’ll also need to realize that their lovers have valid points too. They’ll have to put themselves in their lovers shoes and realize how they would feel in that position and there is hope that both men are capable of getting better at communication, but it won’t be a natural or quick thing for them and finding a partner who will stick around and wait for them to improve is going to be a struggle. On top of this issue with Ryohei, I do feel like his partner will also have some issues with just how much he enjoys fighting, with how often he comes home with his body broken, cut up, badly injured.

Gokudera, Yamamoto, and Chrome’s most common fights with their respective partners all come down to the same issue – their partner never gets to feel like they’re the priority. Each of these characters are people who would put other things above their partners. Chrome really will, even as she gets her own life, her own friends, a romantic partner, all of it, put Mukuro and the Kokuyo Gang above anything else in her life. If Mukuro needs her, she is going to him, no discussions needed and nothing her partner will say will change that. She doesn’t see why her partner cannot accept this, especially as they know how precious Mukuro and the Kokuyo Gang are to her. To her, Mukuro is the only reason she had this second life, this chance to actually be with her partner, so how can they sit there and complain about the times when she has to go and help Mukuro? Do they not realize that without him, she would not be there with them in the first place? She’s not a scream and fight kind of person though and most arguments her partner has with her regarding the subject are shut down just by Chrome walking away, telling them she will be back and hoping that they will come to their senses by the time she returns.

Gokudera’s case is obvious. I will always say that, because of how long he spent with nothing and because of how Tsuna took him in, gave him family and friends and a purpose in life, that Tsuna and the Vongola family will always be his priority. If Tsuna needs him, he will go, and it’s not just Tsuna. If any of the family are in trouble and he is close enough to lend a hand, he is going to do so. It might mean that he sometimes has to cancel plans with his partner, it might mean that occasionally he will be gone from them for significant chunks of time. But he always comes back to them, doesn’t he? He does the best he can for them, doesn’t he? And besides, they’d known this about him from the start, he’d never hidden it. It was part of why he'd never really ever wanted a serious romantic relationship, but he couldn’t help falling in love with them, with how they’d snuck past all his walls and barriers. Couldn’t they admire his loyalty to his precious people and realize that he’d protect them with his life as well? Why did it always need to be this big fight? However, the truth is that his partner has valid points as well. It’s a horrible feeling to never get to feel important to the person you love the most. It hurts to be stood up or cancelled at the last minute, it hurts to never get as much quality time as you need and all of that on top of always worrying about Gokudera’s safety, because he does share the Mafia life with them, they do know the dangers. Unfortunately, I really don’t see Gokudera ever being fully willing to do much to compromise on this. He is who he is, he lives how he wants and needs to and his partner will have to find ways to accept him as he is, accept his life and his family, or there’s absolutely no hope of a future together.

Yamamoto has always had ambitions and goals and things he wants to do with his life. He wants to continue to play baseball, and I do think he does achieve his ambition of playing professionally, even just for a while. He has the Vongola and his family there, along with his father, that he wants to protect, cherish, and love. He has his sword and his determination to continue on the flawless, invincible Shigure Soen style. His relationship with his partner is just one of the many, many things going on in his life. It doesn’t mean that he doesn’t love his partner because he most certainly will. He deeply loves his partner, they’re the light of his life and are incredibly important to him. However, there’s other important things in his life and he needs them to understand that because his life will keep him busy. He’ll be on the road with his team and they’ll either need to be willing to uproot their life and travel with him or trust him to be away from them for so long. His family, of all varieties, are equally as important to him as his lover is and he’s going to do his best to make sure everyone’s needs are met, but that also does mean that sometimes he needs to prioritize and that can leave his partner feeling neglected. He hates when it happens but he’s only one man and tensions can run high on both sides. Once the initial flare of anger has faded though, he is someone who is willing to listen and communicate and the one most willing to find compromises.

Lambo’s biggest source of fighting with his partner? Believe it or not, it’s because Lambo grows up into someone who is a major flirt and likes to fancy himself a bit of a ladies man. He would never stoop to out and outright cheating, mind you. To him, such an act of utter betrayal and disloyalty is disgusting, but he does have a bad habit of flirting with both genders, if the person seems into him, flirts and flatters him, or is just really gorgeous. I also think Lambo has a really bad habit of, once he gets comfortable in a romantic relationship, stopping flirting with his lover. In his mind, there’s no reason to compliment them as much, to flirt and be super playful. That kind of stuff is for courtship and to let them learn how magnificent he believes they are and how much he loves them. Once they’re in a committed relationship for a bit, he figures his partner knows that without him having to do much to show it. It just…slips his mind. So, it’s no wonder for his partner to be hurt by him flirting with other people, especially if they’re not getting that kind of attention and it’s easy enough for his partner to get insecure. However, the good thing about Lambo is that, after there’s enough arguments with his partner, he’s really going to be able to accept that he’s probably fucking up somewhere and he’ll honestly be willing to listen to them if they want to tell him what they need. He honestly will need to hear it to realize what’s going on and once his partner lets him know that they need him to show them appreciation and once they let him know they need him to perhaps tell those flirting with him that he’s taken, he’ll try his best to work on it. He won’t ever stop flirting with people, it’s just a part of his nature, but he will try his best to make sure his partner knows he appreciates them, finds them beautiful, and would never jeopardize his relationship with them.

Hibari and Byakuran have the same issue with their partners. That is, obviously, that both men have serious commitment issues that will cause arguments in any relationship they get into. In Hibari’s case, he can’t stand the thought of being tied down to any one person or any one thing. He wants to be able to do what he wants, live how he wants to live, fight who he wants to fight, and go where he wants whenever he wants. He doesn’t want the absolute responsibility for another person. While he could be capable of entering a romantic relationship, it’s going to be a challenge and everything about it will have to be dictated by Hibari’s whims. It’s something he will make clear from the get-go. There will be no marriage, no happily ever after’s with children and happy families. That’s just never going to be something he wants, no matter how much he loves the person. Though fights are sure to arise from this issue, Hibari will shut them down right away or will just plain out walk away from his partner, sometimes for quite some length of time. His attitude, his way of living his life, is absolutely inflexible and he’s not going to consider, even for a moment, changing anything about it for his partner’s sake. Compromises aren’t his style so his partner will have to accept him as he is and be willing to live a life without those ideals of marriage, children, etc. If they can’t, he will make it clear that it’s best for both of them if they walk away from the relationship before either grows more attached.

In Byakuran’s case, he is honestly very changeable as a person. Even after Yuni helps him open up his heart, he’s someone who really does have a problem connecting with humanity. She opened up his heart after all, she didn’t take away his special powers. He’s already lived a million years and life is in some ways very boring for him. He’s a person who lives and acts entirely on his own whims and he can’t settle into one thing for any long period of time unless it’s something entirely new and potentially exciting. In his other lives, he’s done the whole marriage and kids and forever love kind of things. He knows the experience, it’s no longer novel. Because of this, and his own issues with indecision and tendency to wonder if the grass is greener on the other side, he has no desire for big commitments, like getting engaged or married, and there is a huge potential for him requesting an open relationship at some point during his time with his first, and most important partner.

Mukuro’s main source of arguments with his partner are actually two-fold. One is the most obvious potential for arguments, which is Mukuro’s habit of lying or telling only half-truths, obscuring his real goals, feelings, and motivations. The other is that he’s actually a rather poor communicator when it does come to himself. He’s completely emotionally closed off, with big strong walls separating him from people and that’s not something that will change throughout the years. While he definitely is capable of love and affection for others, letting them truly and completely in is something impossible for him. This can make forming true and lasting romantic relationships really difficult. It’s hard to always feel like your partner doesn’t trust you or that they’re keeping a distance from you and it’s understandable for his partner to bring it up every now and then, to try to communicate how it makes them feel to him. However, Mukuro is not someone who takes even mild criticisms well and it will turn into a verbal fight most of the time which results in him telling them to leave. His relationship will be very on-off for that reason unless his partner allows him to get away with everything.

With Xanxus, there is really no common source of arguments with his partner. The fact is that Xanxus has a really horrendous temper, even as he matures. Though the maturing does mean he gets a better grip on his temper, he still has that nasty temper that is always ready to explode, set on a very hair-trigger. The worst of it is that there’s no telling what will set his temper off. There’s the obvious things that his partner should never speak of in front of Xanxus (mentioning his defeat at the hands of Tsuna, suggesting that maybe he make up with Timoteo, criticism of any kind), the problem is that things that won’t upset Xanxus in one situation or on one day will at another time. His temper is unpredictable, even to him, so literally anything can cause fights with his partner and, unless they’re willing to face his wrath (and have excellent dodging skills) or unless they learn how to read his body language and control their own behaviour based on that, Xanxus’ partner is going to have to learn to live walking on eggshells really because he will not change.

Squalo’s most common sense of arguments with his partner is really a very obvious one. Squalo’s line of work and his lifestyle is an unconventional one and it’s one that he completely devotes himself to. His goal is to become the Sword Emperor and to serve Xanxus and nothing will stand in the way of that, even falling in love. His work is dangerous; he will come home injured, sometimes with bones broken, in horrible conditions. He will have to be away from his partner because of work, or even through choice, for considerable lengths of time at points. Much like some of the others mentioned, Squalo lives the way he likes, and he has no plans on changing his job, his hobbies, or how he lives in any way because in his mind, he is living the right way. Everything he does, in his mind, is the right thing and anyone who disagrees with it is in the wrong, which is a hard mindset to argue with. Because of that, arguments with his partner can get bad and in the end, his partner is going to have to learn to cope with his work with the Varia, with his ambitions as the Sword Emperor dragging him around the world, and with his devotion to Xanxus. None of these things will mean that Squalo won’t love his partner, but if they cannot handle living with those things, then the relationship is doomed.

Levi, Bluebell, and Daisy all have very similar topics and issues as the most common source of arguments with their respective partners. Levi has extreme jealousy issues and will be a very possessive partner. He struggles quite badly with his own insecurities, some of which are rather extremely felt. Because of this and because of the amazing (and often good-looking) men he’s around, he’s always scared that his partner is going to wake up and realize they can do better, and that insecurity will lead him to being jealous of any other person that his partner gets close to. What if they take his partner away? That fear and insecurity also drives him to want to keep his partner with him. In his mind, he’s as good as out of sight, out of mind to people and he’s scared that, between other people and not always having a lot of time with his partner, that they will forget about him or replace him. So, Levi can pick fights, accuse his partner of cheating or of caring about any other person in their life more than they care about him. He’ll pick arguments when he’s feeling insecure about everything, and he will try to separate his partner from friends that he feels they like more than him or that are too good-looking. He wants his partner’s life to almost revolve around him, because other than his work and his boss, Levi’s entire life will revolve around his partner. It is abusive, it is unhealthy, but he just can’t seem to stop himself.

Bluebell also gets extremely jealous. She wants to be the center of attention for her partner. They should be looking at her, complimenting her, playing with her, spending their time with her. She doesn’t want them to like anyone more than they like her and because of this, she will pick fights with not only her partner, but any of her partners friends that they bring around her. She’ll get really rude at those times – the only exception to this is her partner’s direct family members, who she will respect as she believes family is a very important thing. It won’t matter how many times her partner brings up that this is too much, that her rudeness is unfair and embarrasses them or that her partner can’t take it. Bluebell won’t change her actions and she honestly does assume that they’ll never leave her no matter what she does, because the two of them are in love.

Daisy, meanwhile, when they fall in love, is someone who wants to ‘own’ their lover. They want their lover to be theirs in entirety. Daisy’s lovers life will have to grow to be entirely based around their relationship with Daisy, around Daisy themselves. To Daisy, they do love their partner, but they feel entitled to their partner in all ways and might at times view their partner as a toy. Because of this entitlement, arguments with Daisy will really get their partner nowhere. They will either be used as a toy or they will have to try to leave Daisy, which comes with its own unique set of problems and troubles because if Daisy’s partner thought Daisy was possessive during their relationship, that’s nothing compared to a dumped Daisy.

Lussuria is someone who really is never fully satisfied. He has a problem with, even if he’s in love with one person, always wondering if the grass is greener on the other side. A true romanticist in his own way, Lussuria dreams of the perfect partner and the moment one of his relationships starts to show imperfections, he can get too focused on those and start wondering if there’s something better out there. He might even be easily tempted to cheat, even just emotionally or through paying male escorts. This can obviously affect his partner’s self-esteem, their trust in him, and their whole relationship and there will be numerous fights about it. Unless his partner leaves Lussuria or stays but opens up the relationship, this will be a continuing fight as no one person will ever be able to live up to Lussuria’s dream partner.

Both Belphegor and Zakuro have the same issue that causes the most arguments with their respective partners. Similar to Xanxus, both of these men have extreme tempers and serious anger issues. Belphegor’s temper is not only unpredictable and nasty, but it’s very violent and that extends to when he loses his temper with his partner. He throws temper tantrums, and he really doesn’t think anything of physically hurting, even attempting to murder, his partner when he loses his temper. This is obviously not going to sit right with his partner, but there’s really no talking to Belphegor and, if his partner tries to leave him before he is done with them, Belphegor will seriously make every effort to kill them in as brutal a way as he can. There is no fix for this issue and it’s something that just comes with a relationship with Belphegor. Honestly though, his partner should have seen the hints of how unhinged this man is before they decided to get together with him. Zakuro’s temper isn’t that bad. It’s more that he just gets angry really easy. He won’t physically hurt his partner, but he’s going to be violent and intimidating. There will be at least one hole in the drywall of their apartment from where he put his fist through a wall when he was angry. He really probably doesn’t even mean to scare his partner as much as he does; it’s just that Zakuro gets all consumed in his anger and can’t think at all. He’ll always apologize for his anger afterwards, promise he’ll do better next time, but the next time comes and it’s the same thing again. I think the only thing that would seriously make him attempt to change, to seek help with his anger issues, was if his partner were to leave him over it.

Both Irie and Spanner have bad habits of getting much too into their work and their passion projects. They will forget even the basics of sleeping and eating when they get in the zone, until those urges become undeniable. So, it’s really little wonder that they completely forget about their partner as well. They will forget dates or plans, standing up their partner because they don’t even think to message them to properly cancel. They will forget special occasions. They just won’t be around for their partner to support them. It’s no wonder, and very understandable, for their partners to sometimes get upset about this, especially if it continues on for weeks, as it sometimes can. Both men would feel absolutely horrible about making their partner feel bad and they will honestly try to apologize and do better, but they keep repeating the same patterns over and over because how into their work and their passions both men get are just huge parts of who they are as people.

Kikyo has the most boring source of arguments with his partner, the most mundane. The truth of the matter is that the thing he’ll fight with his partner the most about is finances and financial stressors. Kikyo, despite his extravagant appearance, is actually really financially smart. He’s a saver, not a spender, and he’s careful with his money. Part of it is really needing the security of knowing his bills will all be paid, that he and his partner will have the money needed to survive and thrive. If his partner has a habit of spending money on things, even if they can afford them, that Kikyo considers unnecessary, it will definitely spark arguments. Honestly, the two of them need to find a nice compromise between the two, and there’s definitely the potential for both of them to get there, but it will be after plenty of arguments around the subject, as Kikyo is proud and does believe that he is right in everything.

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