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#coping with narcissistic abuse
anne-bsd-bibliophile · 5 months
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"Nobody's perfect" is such a common phrase, but depending on how it is used it can be very toxic.
I grew up in a very religious Mormon community with strict standards. For as long as I remember, I was told that people sin every day and so we have to repent of our sins every day as well. That's what "nobody's perfect" meant to them. Instead of the phrase being used to console or encourage, I mostly heard it as a way of passing judgement. "So-and-so is great, but nobody's perfect. They have plenty of shortcomings they should be working on as well." Many of my family, friends, and neighbors did everything they could to hide their own "sins" while looking down on others for whatever "sins" they must be committing, because everyone apparently sins every day.
And that's what I grew up believing. I thought I had to be perfect, because the goal was to get through the day sin free, or at least that's how I saw it. If I did everything I was told to do by my parents, teachers, and church leaders then I would be considered a good person, right? Actually, when I was a little older I learned that my unconscious thoughts were apparently full of sin as well! And my human desires were also sinful. And anything I did purely for myself was considered selfish. I remember being taught multiple times that there were good, better, and best uses of my time. Reading a book for fun was good, reading a book to learn and improve myself was better, and reading scriptures was best. So now I had to feel guilty for my unconscious thoughts I couldn't control, my body doing what it was built to do, and I had to feel guilty for having any fun or putting myself first.
As an adult I realized all of what I'd believed to be true my entire upbringing was bullshit. There is absolutely no way any person could avoid "sinning" if everything about me was considered wrong the way they made it sound. And because I wasn't perfect, because "nobody's perfect", I was made to feel like I had to make myself into as near a perfect being as I could manage in order to deserve even a morsel of acceptance or praise. But even that little bit of value I'd earned for myself wasn't worth anything because I would be reminded again and again that "nobody's perfect", meaning I'm not perfect, meaning I hadn't really earned anything in the end. All this made me feel like I was worthless and I couldn't do anything to change that.
Everything changed for me when I started learning about emotional abuse. My father was a diagnosed narcissist and he was very good at being emotionally abusive, so I had to learn how to deal with that. While I was reading about narcissistic abuse, I also realized that the religion I grew up in used the same tactics. I learned at church that everything about me was sinful. Literally. The list of sins in endless. I eventually realized that if you twist anything a certain way you can make it look like a sin, which then gives you a reason to look down on anyone who is committing that "sin." So no matter how "good" I was, I would never be good enough to anyone who was looking at me through the lens of "nobody is perfect because we are all sinners."
I remember sitting in church next to my mom one day when a woman who lived down the street was speaking. She was describing how she always felt like she wasn't good enough, she belittled herself and her accomplishments, put herself down, and made a public display of how guilty she felt and how that was why she was so humble and could feel closer to Christ. I looked at my mom and whispered, "It sounds like she's been emotionally abused." From the typical Mormon perspective, what this woman was expressing showed how humble she was. But now I could recognize that from another perspective what she said showed signs that she was a victim of emotional abuse.
Alan Watts said it better than I ever could: "Christianity institutionalized guilt as a virtue." I was taught to feel guilty even for just existing in order to make me feel indebted to God at church and my narcissistic father at home. Once I recognized how toxic that way of thinking was I couldn't bring myself to even pretend I was religious anymore. Now my way of thinking is more along the lines of, "Nobody is meant to be perfect, which is what makes everyone perfect in their own way." Instead of needing to be good enough, I'm learning to recognize the inherent value in everyone, including myself.
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Please, if you can, take a moment to read and share this because I feel like I'm screaming underwater.
NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) stigma is rampant right now, and seems to be getting progressively worse. Everyone is using it as a buzzword in the worst ways possible, spreading misinformation and hatred against a real disorder.
I could go on a long time about how this happened, why it's factually incorrect (and what the disorder actually IS), why it's harmful, and the changes I'd like to see. But to keep this concise, I'll simply link to a few posts under the cut for further reading.
The point of this post is a plea. Please help stop the spread of stigma. Even in mental health communities, even around others with personality disorders, in neurodivergent "safe" spaces, other communities I thought people would be supportive in (e.g. trans support groups, progressive spaces in general), it keeps coming up. So I'm willing to bet that a lot of people on this site need to see this.
Because it's so hard to exist in this world.
My disorder already makes me feel as if I'm worthless and unlovable, like there's something inherently wrong and damaged about me. And it's so much harder to fight that and heal when my daily life consists of:
Laughing and spending time with my friends, doing my utmost best to connect and stay present and focused on them, trying to let my guards down and be real and believe I'm lovable- when suddenly they throw out the word "narcissist" to describe horrible people or someone they hate, or the conversation turns to how evil "people with narcissistic personality disorder" are. (Seriously, you don't know which of your friends might have NPD and feels like shit when you say those things & now knows that you'd hate them if you knew.)
Trying to look up "mental health positivity for people with npd", "mental health positivity cluster bs", only to find a) none of that, and b) more of the same old vile shit that makes me feel terrible about myself.
Having a hard time (which is constant at this point) and trying to look up resources for myself, only to again, find the same stigma. And no resources.
Not having any clue how to help myself, because even the mental health field is spitting so much vitriol at people with DISORDERS (who they're supposed to be helping!) that there's no solid research or therapy programs for people like me.
Losing close friends when they find out, despite us having had a good relationship before, and them KNOWING me and knowing that I'm not like the trending image of pwNPD. Because now they only see me through the lens of stigma and misinformation.
Hearing the same stigma come up literally wherever I go. Clubs. Meetings. Any online space. At the bus stop. At the mall. At a restaurant. At work. Buzzword of the year that everyone loooves loudly throwing around with their friends or over the phone. Feels awesome for me, makes my day so much better/s
I could go on for a long time, but I'm scared no one will read/rb this if it gets too much longer.
So please. Stop using the word "narcissist" as a synonym for "abusive".
Stop bringing up people you hate who you believe to have NPD because of a stigmatizing article full of misinformation whenever someone with actual NPD opens their mouth. (Imagine if people did that with any other disorder! "Hey, I'm autistic." "Oh... my old roommate screamed at me whenever I made noise around him, and didn't understand my needs, which seems like sensory overload and difficulty with social cues. He was definitely autistic. But as long as you're self-aware and always restraining your innate desire to be an abusive asshole, you're okay I guess, maybe." ...See how offensive and ignorant that is?)
Stop preventing healthcare for people with a disorder just because it's trendy to use us as a scapegoat.
If you got this far, thank you for reading, and please share this if you can. Further reading is under the cut.
NPD Criteria, re-written by someone who actually has NPD
Stigma in the DSM
Common perception of the DSM criteria vs how someone may actually experience them (Keep in mind that this is the way I personally experience these symptoms, and that presentation can vary a lot between individuals)
"Idk, the stigma is right though, because I've known a lot of people with NPD who are jerks, so I'm going to continue to support the blockage of treatment for this condition."
(All of these were written by me, because I didn't want to link to other folks' posts without permission, but if you want to add your own links in reblogs or replies please feel free <3)
#actuallynpd#signal boost#actuallyautistic#mental health awareness#narcissistic personality disorder#people also need to realize that mental health professionals aren't immune from bias#(it really shouldn't come as a shock that the mental health field has a longstanding pattern of misunderstanding and mistreating ppl who ar#mentally ill or otherwise ND)#the first therapist i brought up NPD to like. literally pulled out the DSM bc she could barely remember the criteria. then said that there'#no way I have it because I have low self-esteem lmaoooooo#anyway throwback to being at work and chatting with a co-worker. and the conversation turning to mental health. and him saying that#he tries to stay informed and be aware and supportive of mental health conditions & that he doesn't want to be ignorant or spread harmful#misinformation. and then i mentioned that i do a lot of research into mental health stuff and i listed a bunch of things. which included#several personality disorders. one of which was NPD.#and after listening to my whole ass list he zeroed in on the NPD and immediately started talking about how narcissists are abusive and#he knew someone who had NPD and how the person who had it had an addiction and died from the addiction in a horrible way and he#was glad he did#fun times#or when i decided to be vulnerable and talk abt my self-criticism/self-hatred bc i knew my friends also struggled w that and i wanted to#support them by sharing my own coping methods. and they both(separately!) started picking and prodding at my npd through the lens of stigma#bc i'd recently opened up to them abt having it. they recognized self-hatred as a symptom and still jumped on me for it. despite me#trying to share hurt vulnerable parts of myself to help them and connect with them.#again..... fun times
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nothing0fnothing · 8 months
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being like this and living with someone who doesn't understand is so hard.
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turns-out-its-adhd · 8 months
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When you forget how badly they treated you and start to miss them, and reach out only to get a bunch more abusive shit from them again.
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The difference with the disorders of ASPD, psychopathy and NPD versus the 150-something other disorders in the DSM is that they function completely differently because they are PERSONALITY disorders and not regular disorders.
Personality disorders cause dysfunction with opinions, feelings, observations, empathy, perceptions and relationships. The way they see every event, instance, and conversation is coming from a distorted perception. They can be aware of this distorted perception but one of the main symptoms of these disorders is a lack of self-awareness and always believing one is right and never wrong, which is very common with cluster b disorders. Self-awareness is also a spectrum, not black and white as many people get wrong. They're not just "different" with their opinions and perceptions (everybody has different feelings and opinions) but they're maladaptive and unhealthy.
ASPD and NPD major/common symptoms from research (not just taking from the DSM I've been researching them for a decade now): revenge-prone (often from distorted perceptions but can certainly be from a non-distorted perception), entitlement issues, lack of empathy toward others, manipulation, deception, exploitation/supply-seeking, victim-complex and can't see fault in ones own behaviors chronically so- meaning they see themselves as perfect and don't take accountability for any little mistakes or wrongs, love-bombing then devaluing cycles which causes Stockholm syndrome, projection, possessiveness in relationships, extreme jealousy and envy issues in relationships or with peers, poor and abusive relationships.
While something like ADHD has issues with attention, focus staying on one task that isn't scary or bad, just distressing for the disordered individual. Anxiety disorders have symptoms like overthinking, feeling jittery or on edge, feeling distressed about the future, etc. Other disorders have issues with normal things that only distress the individual suffering from said disorder, they're not dangerous.
However, people with ASPD and NPD have symptoms that make them dangerous to themselves AND others, causing distress to both themselves AND others.
Yes, people with ASPD and NPD are certainly distressed as well from the consequences of their actions and lack of ability to love another person, thus making relationships unfulfilling. But they bring distress to people around them as well and just as much if not worse.
ASPD, psychopathy and narcissists are vindictive as a PERSONALITY trait and if you do your research properly - revenge as a maladaptive personality trait is a hallmark of ASPD and psychopathy, not just a one time thing like a 17 year old girl getting revenge with her best friend on her cheating partner (teenagers are impulsive and dumb they'd be more prone to this behavior than adults). But with personality disorders it is a pattern of behavior. And their revenge-seeking is an epidemic in the world of psychological abuse survivors because that's often what psychological abuse survivors complain of is the cluster-b persons vindictive behavior towards them for unrighteous reasons, that the cluster b thinks is righteous but thats the distortions and delusions they have. And part of that maladaptive trait is along with the lack of emotional (sometimes cognitive) empathy they don't have that line in the sand they won't cross, meaning they don't have limits on how far they're willing to hurt people making them inherently wrong for their behaviors.
Neuroscientists psychopathy and ASPD:
Dr Keel
Dr. Raine
Dr. Robert Hare 
Dr Kevin Dutton
Books: 
Handbook of psychopathy
Hervey Cleckley's original 1940's checklist that Hare basically admitted the PCL-R is based off of.
Npd:
Dr kernberg
Dr. W. Keith Campbell
Dr. Kraig malkin 
Dr. James Masterson
Dr Steve reed
Dr Elinor Greenberg 
Dr. Marie-France Hirigoyen, a psychoanalyst
There is a lot of what you’ve said that I agree with. ASPD and NPD do indeed cause symptoms distressing to themselves and others. People with ASPD and NPD can act harmfully. Jealousy does play a large role in NPD (I’m not so sure in ASPD since this is a disorder largely based off apathy).
I have NPD and I’m acutely aware of the distortions in my world view. I know that that’s unusual. I’ve had years of therapy and several times of radical acceptance to get to this point. Egotypicals still perceive things in ways that surprise me from time to time but generally I have a lot of self awareness and I’m very interested in psychology and the concept of society.
I have very low emotional empathy (although my cognitive empathy works very well if I have the energy) and yet I disagree with you saying that cluster b’s “don’t have limits on how far they’re willing to hurt people making them inherently wrong for their behaviours”. There are so many things wrong with that statement.
The first is the not having “limits”. I have limits. Perhaps they’re implemented more by rational thought than emotional (like others) but they’re still there. I have a set of morals that I stick steadfast to and I’ve been told by many people that I am a person who holds my values and morals close and guards them tightly.
The second is “willing to hurt people”. This might come as a shock but that’s not a specific cluster b trait. Anyone and everyone are willing to hurt people. Neurotypicals do it all the time. Neurodivergents do it all the time. Everyone does it all the time. For example, you are willing to hurt a group of people with personality disorders by sending an ask that deliberately frames them in a negative way. A simpler example is asking what you would do for your loved ones. Would you steal, fight, manipulate, break the law? All of those classify as “willing to hurt people”.
My third issue is that you say cluster b’s are “inherently wrong for their behaviours”. What behaviours? Who’s wrong?
If I take that as I assume it was meant to be intended, what you meant was “cluster b folk are wrong and will always be wrong in their behaviours because of the previously mentioned reasons”. I just disproved the previously mentioned reasons so that point is moot. You’ve just taken a few traits of a disorder, spun a negative portrayal on them and decided that that means cluster b people as a whole are completely untrustworthy and unforgivable in every aspect.
If I was to take a different view on the statement, I could interpret the meaning as “people who willfully do harm are inherently irredeemable”. That’s a more solid point but one I would dispute anyway. That ends up tipping more into the moral quandary of questions such as “would you steal bread for your starving family”. I would say that no one is inherently irredeemable. Certain acts may be unforgivable but people themselves are not irredeemable.
People who willfully do harm with malicious intent over and over again (the ones “without limits”) are indeed not good people. However, assuming that the only people who do that or the only people capable of doing it are cluster b is not a good view nor a correct one.
Anyone can be a bad person. Anyone can do bad things.
Another thing you mentioned is vindictiveness. I wouldn’t phrase it like that. For all intents and purposes it’s very similar but it’s much easier to understand is describing it as the fight response. Cluster b folk are more inclined to the fight response. When they perceive threat, they lash out, which can cause harm to themselves and others. It’s something a lot of people do however cluster b’s take it to an extreme.
It’s not a petty grudge and it’s not a relentless pursuing of someone. It’s a matter of hurt and survival instincts.
There’s been a lot of focus on the damage disorders do to others and far less on the damage it causes the person themself. And for those who are trying to cope better and hurt less it’s much harder for them as it becomes easier for people around them.
At the end of the day, you have sent what’s effectively a list of “proof” that cluster b’s are inherently harmful and that’s that (although you completely failed to mention BPD and HPD).
I want to prove that you’re wrong. No one is inherently harmful. No one is beyond hope of at least trying for better. ASPD and NPD (and BPD and HPD) don’t cause people to be awful people. They make mistakes, they mess up and they try to heal just like everyone else.
I can acknowledge how my actions hurt people and work on them and be a good person. Anyone can. I can take accountability for hurting someone even if I don’t accept I was wrong.
Personality disorders are morally neutral and it might be harder for me but I can create healthy, caring relationships.
If you won’t accept the idea that we can then that’s not our problem. That’s something I sincerely hope you educate yourself on and get over.
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valcaira · 1 year
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omw to destroy "empaths" with my EVIL and DEMONIC and DRAINING narc energy
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lovesick02 · 2 years
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vizthedatum · 5 months
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I just broke up with my therapist and am on a waitlist for another therapist in the same practice.
My therapist was really great - she was the first therapist I'd ever had who specialized in narcissistic abuse. She is helping me find a better fit elsewhere. I need to talk to someone who serves a neurodivergent population (in addition to being LGBTQIA+ affirming and versed in trauma and such).
I have felt frustrated because I think that I have never received support for my late-diagnosed autism.
I need autistic support... in addition to trauma support.
To be quite honest, in my personal life experience, I think my autism and ADHD are at the roots of my childhood abuse, school bullying, constant cycles of burnout, and tendency to be in narcissistic relationships (well, in addition to me being primed for being a codependent due to how my parents have treated me - it is no secret that most people's attachment traumas and codependency come from how they've been shown love and support as a child - I was groomed to be prime narcissistic supply!)
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writingskaska · 9 months
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After being raised by narcissistic parents, one of my coping mechanisms became „being easy“. To always be convenient, to never worry anyone or challenge the people around me so they would have me.
Being a people pleaser is lonely and realizing the damage that has been done is dreadful.
But healing is a process. So this poem was my attempt at stepping out of my little cage.
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GOOGLE STOP TELLING ME HOW TO “SPOT THE SIGNS OF” AND “ESCAPE” A COLLAPSED NARC WHEN IM LOOKING FOR NARC CRASH COPING SKILLS CHALLENGE
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greenevergreens · 4 months
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What happened to you isn't your fault, but how you deal and cope with it is your responsibility.
It doesn't matter what you went through, how bad it was, how long it lasted, how badly it messed you up, if you were born with the mental illness(es) you have or they were caused by trauma, you DO NOT get to use that as an excuse to hurt others.
Grow up, mature, and deal with your shit.
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anne-bsd-bibliophile · 10 months
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Emotional triggers are crazy. I just figured out today that just telling someone "no" immediately makes me nervous and I prepare myself to be yelled at, blamed, ridiculed, etc. I realize now that being raised by a narcissistic father who was emotionally/verbally abusive and had to have everything his way caused me to be scared of telling someone "no."
For example, something as simple as being asked "Do you have Diet Dr. Pepper?" When I have to tell them "No, all I have is Diet Coke for diet drinks," it scares me half to death. But when someone asks, "What sodas do you have?" it is so much easier for me to answer. Then I feel like I can be helpful and try to find something they like instead of have to tell them I don't have their favorite drink.
I get that most people probably won't take it out on me when I don't have what drink they want. But I grew up in a household where if I told my father that something wasn't his way or that things hadn't turned out how he had hoped I knew I would be blamed and he would do whatever he could to push the blame on me:
I, a five year old at the time, wanted to eat the fudge that I bought with the money I earned? But my father does so much for me and it is selfish not to share with him.
My sister came home after curfew? Well, if I had been a better older sister she wouldn't feel the need to rebel like that.
I don't like to eat cereal because I hate milk? But liking cereal with milk is normal and I can't possibly be abnormal so my father forced me to sit at the table until I had eaten every bit of cereal and drank every drop of milk in the bowl. (I found out years later that I'm lactose intolerant and that's why I hated milk so much growing up.)
I couldn't respond to a text right away because I was at work? Well my father was paying for my phone at the time so I had to answer right away or else he would threaten to disconnect it.
I wanted to tell my family about my day at dinner? But my sister had so much to say and my father didn't want me taking up her valuable time boring her by talking about my day.
My mom took me out to lunch? My father couldn't afford for my mom to be taking me out to eat and I must be trying to get her to divorce him. It was only okay for my father to take people out to lunch, and that's only if they "treated him right" and "deserved for him to pay for their food."
I like watching anime? Then that must be why I can't get a date and I must be watching hentai or (heaven forbid) I must be lesbian because otherwise I'd find a nice religious boy to marry and I wouldn't have time for things like anime.
I wouldn't agree with him that detox baths would literally suck fat cells from his body and make him lose weight? Well, I was a disrespectful daughter and my father threatened to never let me see my mom again.
After growing up in a situation where it was normal for me to be blamed and criticized for every little thing I did, it became a natural response for me to try to anticipate what people around me want to hear and want me to do. If I do or say anything "wrong" then I prepare myself for immediate and severe emotional punishment because that's what I grew up with constantly. I automatically assume everything I do is "wrong" until I realize no punishment has come, and then I can breathe a sigh of relief and hope that I did something right.
That's why dealing with people is so exhausting. That's why my social anxiety is so bad. I hadn't realized until this evening why I'm always so tense and nervous. I was talking to someone about weird habits we have from childhood that helped us survive in tough situations when it hit me that I say "yes" and try to please people to survive. That's why I relate to Yozo in No Longer Human so much: I'm terrified of humans, too. Only instead of playing the clown and trying to make them laugh, I'm trying to please them and make them happy so they won't get mad at me.
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z34l0t · 6 months
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nothing0fnothing · 7 months
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The number of times I've caught myself in the middle of telling myself how worthless, unlovable, dislikable and embarrassing I am is too many. It's almost every day.
And sometimes I correct myself and say "I am not unlovable" "I am allowed to make mistakes" "I have grown and changed since then."
Sometimes, I just wallow in the shame.
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craycraybluejay · 6 months
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Me if I ever get a really bad psychotic episode and think my friend is a hulking scary monster so hit them with a chair: whoops, had a psychotic aggression moment after being psychotic this past month. Might want to find a better way to keep myself and other ppl safe in case it happens again
Some people: no!111!!1!! That's just regular aggression!!!1!1 stop talking bad about psychotics!!1!!!!! It was ur fully lucid and self aware choice to hit ur friend with a chair!!1!!!! Literally there's no such thing as psychotic aggression1!!!!1! Kys op!!
#narcissistic abuse#discourse#mental illness#actually psychotic#actually schizospec#literally yes mental disorders can drive u to do bad or stupid things. why do you think people seek help for them.#because theyre sad sometimes?#even low grade depression or anxiety can make you suicidal. and being suicidal can make you careless and stupid bc u stop caring ab shit#so like. maybe stop pretending mental disorders cant drive u to harm ppl and start addressing how to stay safe#and make sure others r safe around u#me if i say i got mad jealous bc of adhd related rsd and was mean about it bc adhd related impulsivity#people: OH NO UR SAYING THAT ADHD MAKES PPL ASSHOLES GO DIE RN#literally. go away. mental illness is an illness and not a quirk. bad shit happens. people do bad shit to themselves and others driven by#disordered behaviour and thought patterns#and you know what helps prevent this? talking about it honestly and spreading awareness so we can all get the kind of help and coping skills#that we need. so those who need meds or therapy can. so ppl can realize#'hey i felt super offended over this thing someone did that wasnt about me and hurt them! thats a pattern for me!'#'maybe i should talk about it with a therapist that specializes in stuff like that or try to use calming coping methods-#to calm myself down when i get really angry and see if it's worth hurting someone over!'#please take a moment to reflect#who are you helping by denying the disordered nature of mental illness
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redflagbreakfast · 1 year
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Death threats for writing my life stories about my dealings with abuse and narcissism. How lovely, yet expected, considering the demographic. I’m definitely receiving way more heat than support, however, it just feeds fuel to my internal, blazing fire.  It makes me really feel like I’m a lot more alone than I had originally thought with what I’ve survived.
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