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Quotes about John Lennon’s sexuality

This is just a reference post for convenience, not an analysis (but I’ve added some comments here and there). This is extremely long with a lot of quotes! And where there's smoke there's fire, imo.

John's (internalized) homophobia: Starting with this topic to provide context & contrast to the rest of this post

At the party the boys’ old friend Bob Wooler, the Cavern emcee, made a crack to John about his holiday. John, who’d had plenty to drink, exploded. He leapt on Bob, and by the time he was dragged off Bob had a black eye and badly bruised ribs. I took John home as fast as I could, and Brian drove Bob to the hospital.

I was appalled that John had lashed out again. I’d thought those days were over. But John was still livid, muttering that Bob had called him a queer.

Cynthia Lennon, John

[Bob Wooler had] insinuated that me and Brian had had an affair in Spain. I was out of me mind with drink. You know, when you get down to the point where you want to drink out of all the empty glasses, that drunk. And he was saying, ‘Come on, John, tell me’ – something like that – ‘Tell me about you and Brian, we all know.’ And obviously I must have been frightened of the fag in me to get so angry. You know, when you’re twenty-one, you want to be a man, and all that. If somebody said it now, I wouldn’t give a shit.

John Lennon, John Lennon: For The Record, Peter McCabe and Robert D Schonfeld

“The Beatles’ first national coverage was me beating up Bob Wooler at Paul’s 21st party because he intimated I was homosexual. I must have had a fear that maybe I was homosexual to attack him like that and it’s very complicated reasoning. But I was very drunk and I hit him and I could have really killed somebody then. And that scared me… That was in the Daily Mirror, it was the back page…”

John Lennon, talking about a (one sided) fight he had with Cavern DJ Bob Wooler at Paul’s 21st birthday party in 1963.

Everyone in Liverpool knew that Epstein was gay, and some kid in the audience screamed, ‘John Lennon’s a fucking queer!’ And John – who never wore his glasses on stage – put his guitar down and went into the crowd, shouting, ‘Who said that?’ So this kid says, ‘I fucking did.’ John went after him and BAM, gave him the Liverpool kiss, sticking the nut on him – twice! And the kid went down in a mass of blood, snot and teeth. Then John got back on the stage. ‘Anybody else?’ he asked. Silence. ‘All right then. “Some Other Guy”.’”

Lemmy Kilmister, White Line Fever: The Biography. (2004)

“Victim in 1961 was one of the first British films to deal properly and thoughtfully with the subject. Dirk Bogarde welcomed the opportunity to play the homosexual barrister, and there were some very tense scenes between him and his wife, Sylvia Syms. In one scene, Dirk Bogarde lifts his garage door at the back of the mews to discover that someone has painted graffiti about him on the wall. The Beatles were sitting together at a Cavern lunchtime session and John Lennon, who was talking to Paul and George, was making biting remarks about Victim, which was on at the Odeon. I knew by then that Brian was what he was, and I thought, ‘Well, I am surprised at John, who is 21 and a young man of the world.’ He was making such nasty, puritanical observations, but I never said anything as they didn’t know that I was listening.”

Bob Wooler, c/o Spencer Leigh, The Best of Fellas: The Story of Bob Wooler. (2002)

If somebody is going to manage me, I want to know them inside out. He told me he was a fag.

I like “Honky Tonk Woman” but I think Mick’s a joke, with all that fag dancing, I always did

I think its concept is revolutionary, and I hope it’s for workers and not for tarts and fags.

I don’t know about the “history”; the people who are in control and in power, and the class system and the whole bullshit bourgeoisie is exactly the same, except there is a lot of fag middle class kids with long, long hair walking around London in trendy clothes

I don’t dig that junkie fag scene he lives in; I don’t know whether he lives like that or what.

Casual homophobia in Lennon Remembers (Notable for the increase in homophobic language post-primary scream therapy, here is some interesting speculation about how these two things are related)

The violence that had been building inside John Lennon all night came bursting out the moment he left the studio. It struck so fast and unexpectedly that it stunned May Pang. She recalled that John was walking unsteadily toward the parking lot when suddenly he cast a drunken look over his shoulder at Jesse Ed Davis. Running over to him, Lennon gave Jesse Ed a passionate kiss on the mouth. Not to be outdone, Jesse Ed grabbed John and kissed him back. Lennon screamed, “F****t!” — and knocked Jesse flat on his ass.

The Lives of John Lennon by Albert Goldman (May Pang, describing an incident during the recording of Rock 'n' Roll in 1973: p.564)

It turned into a full-on fight. John was incredibly strong! He got me in some kind of a hold behind my back that I could not get out of, like a full nelson. And he started to kiss me on the mouth! He was laughin’ and kissin’ me on the mouth. I was strugglin’ to git away and I couldn’t git away. Then he stuck his tongue in my mouth. God! So I bit him. Bit him on the tongue. That pissed him off. So he grabbed the marble ashtray that we couldn’t break and banged me on the head. Knocked me cold.

The Lives of John Lennon by Albert Goldman (a direct quote from Jesse Ed Davis about a different night: p. 576-577)

Alternatively, he could be openly supportive:

Why make it sad to be gay? Doing your thing is O.K. Our bodies our own So leave us alone Go play with yourself – today.

A poem submitted for Len Richmond and Gary Noguera's Gay Liberation Handbook, on 30 May 1972

John spreading rumours: John (and Yoko) had a propensity for intentionally spreading rumours about his sexuality, with many people claiming that he found it funny. Multiple people refused to believe his own words about his experiences or willingness with men.

John told me he had had a one-night stand with Brian, on a holiday with him in Spain, when Brian had invited him out, a few days after the birth of Julian in 1963, leaving Cyn alone. I mentioned this brief holiday in the book, but not what John had alleged had taken place. Partly, I didn't really believe it, though John was daft enough to try almost anything once. John was certainly not homosexual, and this boast, or lie, would have given the wrong impression. It was also not fair on Cynthia, his then wife.

Hunter Davies, The Beatles: The Authorised Biography (updated edition, 2010)

John himself said he finally allowed Brian to make love to him “to get it out of the way.” Those who knew John well, who had known him for years, don’t believe it for a moment. John was aggressively heterosexual and had never given a hint that he was anything but.

Tony Bramwell, Magical Mystery Tours: My Life With The Beatles, 2014

John roared with laughter at the rumours that began afterwards. Typically, he encouraged the stories that he and Brian were gay lovers because he thought it was funny and John was one of the world’s great wind-up merchants. He told me afterwards in one of our frankest heart-to-hearts that Brian never seriously did proposition him. He had teased Brian about the young men he kept gazing at and the odd ones who had found their way to his room. Brian had joked to John about the women who hurled themselves at him. ‘If he’d asked me, I probably would have done anything he wanted. I was so much in awe of Brian then I’d have tried a night of vice-versa. But he never wanted me like that. Sure, I took the mickey a bit and pretended to lead him on. But we both knew we were joking.

Alistair Taylor, With The Beatles, 2003

Years later, John finally came clean about what had happened: not to anyone who’d been around at the time, but to the unshockable woman with whom he shared the last decade of his life. He said that one night during the trip, Brian had cast aside shyness and scruples and finally come on to him, but that he’d replied, “If you feel like that, go out and find a hustler.” Afterward, he had deliberately fed Pete Shotton the myth of his brief surrender, so that everyone would believe his power over Brian to be absolute.

Philip Norman, John Lennon: The Life, 2008

The next night Elliot [Mintz] took us out with a friend of his, Sal Mineo, and we all went to a gay cabaret/discotheque. John was oblivious to the gay ambience. He was curious about everyone’s sexuality and liked to gossip about who was sleeping with whom, whether they were gay or straight. John made no judgements about homosexuality but was really curious about who was and who wasn’t gay.

He knew that his appearance at a gay club might start rumors about his own sexuality, and it made him laugh. He told me that there had been rumors about him and his first manager, Brian Epstein, and that he usually didn’t deny them. He liked the fact that people could be titillated by having suspicions about his masculinity. Then I was the one who was laughing. “How could anyone believe a man who likes women as much as you do is gay?” I told him.

May Pang’s Loving John (1983).

Q. Have you ever fucked a guy?

A. Not yet, I thought I’d save it til I was 40, life begins at 40 you know, tho I never noticed it.

Q. It is trendy to be bisexual and you’re usually ‘keeping up with the Jones’, haven’t you ever… there was talk about you and PAUL…

A. Oh, I thought it was about me and Brian Epstein… anyway, I’m saving all the juice for my own version of THE REAL FAB FOUR BEATLES STORY etc.. etc..

John Lennon self interview for Andy Warhol’s Interview Magazine (November 1974).

John: Yes, all your best friends let you know what's going on. I was trying to put it 'round that I was gay, you know-- I thought that would throw them off... dancing at all the gay clubs in Los Angeles, flirting with the boys... but it never got off the ground.

Q: I think I've only heard that lately about Paul.

John: Oh, I've had him, he's no good. [Laughter]

John Lennon, interviewed by Lisa Robinson for Hit Parader: A conversation with John Lennon (December 1975).

“It’s great,” Ono laughs. “I mean, both John and I thought it was good that people think we were bisexual, or homosexual.” She laughs again.

“Uh, well, the story I was told was a very explicit story, and from that I think they didn’t have it [sex],” Ono tells me. “But they went to Spain, and when they came back, tons of reporters were asking, ‘Did you do it, did you do it?’ So he said, ‘I did it.’ Isn’t that amazing? But of course he would say that. I’m sure Brian Epstein made a move, yeah.”

And Lennon said no to Epstein?

“He just didn’t want to do it, I think.”

Yoko Ono: I Still Fear John’s Killer by Tim Teeman for the Daily Beast (13 October 2015).

Over dinner the Wenners learned the secrets of the Beatles kingdom from Ono, who would often suggest to Wenner that John Lennon was gay. “She’s always hinted that there was some gay component to John,” said Wenner, “but in a vague or generalized way, like, ‘Isn’t everybody gay?’ Or, ‘I always told John he was gay.’ ” (She also told McCartney this theory after Lennon died, which he didn’t believe.)”

Joe Hagan, Sticky Fingers: The Life and Times of Jann Wenner & Rolling Stone Magazine. (2017)

On the other hand, he supposedly hated the rumours:

Claims have been made since that Brian and John had a gay relationship. Nothing could be further from the truth. John was a hundred per cent heterosexual and, like most lads at that time, horrified by the idea of homosexuality.

It was a holiday John came to regret because it sparked off a string of rumours about his relationship with Brian. He had to put up with sly digs, winks and innuendo that he was secretly gay. It infuriated him: all he'd wanted was a break with a friend, but it was turned into so much more.

Cynthia Lennon, John, 2005

And I just went on holiday. I watched Brian picking up the boys. I like playing a bit faggy, all that. It was enjoyable, but there were big rumours in Liverpool, it was terrible. Very embarrassing. Rumors about you and Brian? Oh, fuck knows—yes, yes. I was pretty close to Brian because if somebody's going to manage me, I want to know them inside out.

John Lennon, Jann S. Wenner, Lennon Remembers, 1970

Unfortunately, certain Liverpool acquaintances (who had no way of knowing that there was a kernel of truth to their allegations) wouldn't let John hear the end of it. All in good fun, no doubt, but John was still too enamored of his macho self-image to take lightly any inference that he was anything less than 100 percent heterosexual.

The Beatles, Lennon, and me - Pete Shotton

John's comments about his sexuality:

It’s just handy to fuck your best friend. That’s what it is. And once I resolved the fact that it was a woman as well, it’s all right. We go through the trauma of life and death every day so it’s not so much of a worry about what sex we are anymore.

John Lennon, interview w/ Jonathan Cott for Rolling Stone: Yoko Ono and her sixteen-track voice. (March 18th, 1971)

I just realized that [Yoko] knew everything I knew, and more, probably, and it was coming out of a woman’s head. It just sort of bowled me over, you know? And it was like finding gold or something. To find somebody that you can go and get pissed with, and have exactly the same relationship as any mate in Liverpool you’d ever had, but also you could go to bed with him, and it could stroke your head when you felt tired, or sick, or depressed. It could also be Mother. And obviously, that’s what the male-female – you know, you could take those roles with each other.

John Lennon, interview w/ Peter McCabe and Robert D. Schonfeld c/o Peter McCabe and Robert D. Schonfeld, John Lennon: For The Record. (September 5th, 1971)

It’s a plus, it’s not a minus. The plus is that your best friend, also, can hold you without… I mean, I’m not a homosexual, or we could have had a homosexual relationship and maybe that would have satisfied it, with working with other male artists. [faltering] An artist – it’s more – it’s much better to be working with another artist of the same energy, and that’s why there’s always been Beatles or Marx Brothers or men, together. Because it’s alright for them to work together or whatever it is. It’s the same except that we sleep together, you know? I mean, not counting love and all the things on the side, just as a working relationship with her, it has all the benefits of working with another male artist and all the joint inspiration, and then we can hold hands too, right?

John Lennon, interview w/ Sandra Shevey. (Mid-June?, 1972)

I was on holiday with Brian Epstein in Spain, where the rumours went around that he and I were having a love affair. Well, it was almost a love affair, but not quite. It was never consummated. But it was a pretty intense relationship. It was my first experience with a homosexual that I was conscious was homosexual. He had admitted it to me. We had this holiday together because Cyn was pregnant, and I went to Spain and there were lots of funny stories. We used to sit in a cafe in Torremolinos looking at all the boys and I’d say, ‘Do you like that one, do you like this one?’ I was rather enjoying the experience, thinking like a writer all the time: I am experiencing this, you know.

John Lennon, Rolling Stone, 1980

I was thinking, if only I could get out of Liverpool, be famous and rich, that would be great. I’ve always wanted to be a famous artist, you know? Possibly I’d have to marry a very rich old lady… or man, you know… to… to look after me while I did my art. But then Rock & Roll came and I thought ‘Ah, this is the one’, so I didn’t have to marry anybody or live with them, you know?

John Lennon interview

There was even some discussion, albeit not very serious, of whether he should stick to his own gender. “John said ‘It would hurt you like crazy if I made it with a girl. With a guy, maybe you wouldn’t be hurt, because that’s not competition. But I can’t make it with a guy because I love women too much, and I’d have to fall in love with the guy and I don’t think I can.’”

John Lennon: The Life

I look at early pictures of meself, and I was torn between being Marlon Brando and being the sensitive poet – the Oscar Wilde part of me with the velvet, feminine side. I was always torn between the two, mainly opting for the macho side, because if you showed the other side, you were dead.

John Lennon, December 5th, 1980

“John believed in my work as an artist wasn’t accepted in part because I am a woman. He got angry when people said about me, “She’s not a woman, she’s a female impersonator.” John said to me, “If I had been gay and gotten together with a guy who was talented like you, after ten years that guy would have become famous as an artist in his own right. Maybe we should come out and say, ‘Actually, Yoko is a guy.’ Maybe that will do it!”

Yoko Ono, interview w/ Jon Wiener, c/o Jon Wiener, Come Together: John Lennon In His Time. (1984)

In this intense, intimate and revealing original cassette recording of a private conversation in 1969 between John Lennon and Yoko Ono, the couple speaks primarily about Yoko’s past relationships, her music and art, and their random views on sex, love, promiscuity, and homosexuality. […] [Lennon] adds that he had never met an attractive woman that had sexually aroused him to any great degree.

Description of the 45-minute audiotape auctioned in 2009 by Alexander Autographs.

Yoko's comments about his sexuality:

“Well, that’s another thing. John and I had a big talk about it, saying, basically, all of us must be bisexual. And we were sort of in a situation of thinking that we’re not [bisexual] because of society. So we are hiding the other side of ourselves, which is less acceptable. But I don’t have a strong sexual desire towards another woman.”

Did Lennon have sex with other men?

“I think he had a desire to, but I think he was too inhibited,” says Ono.

“No, not inhibited. He said, ‘I don’t mind if there’s an incredibly attractive guy.’ It’s very difficult: They would have to be not just physically attractive, but mentally very advanced too. And you can’t find people like that.”

So did Lennon ever have sex with men?

“No, I don’t think so,” says Ono. “The beginning of the year he was killed, he said to me, ‘I could have done it, but I can’t because I just never found somebody that was that attractive.’ Both John and I were into attractiveness—you know—beauty.”

Yoko Ono: I Still Fear John’s Killer by Tim Teeman for the Daily Beast (13 October 2015).

"As mild and oblique as the comment was [Paul's "You took your lucky break and broke it in two" line from "Too Many People"], it seemed to cut John to the heart. On top of the questionnaire inside theMcCartney album and the lawsuit, it was like the tipping point between a divorcing couple that turns love into savage, no-holds-barred hostility. Indeed, John's wounded anger was more that of an ex-spouse than ex-colleague, reinforcing a suspicion already in Yoko's mind that his feelings for Paul had been far more intense than the world at large ever guessed. From chance remarks he had made, she gathered there had even been a moment where - on the principle that bohemians should try everything - he had contemplated an affair with Paul, but had been deterred by Paul's immovable heterosexuality. Nor, apparently, was Yoko the only one to have picked up on this. Around Apple, in her hearing, Paul would sometimes be called John's princess. She had also once heard a rehearsal tape with John's voice calling out "Paul ... Paul ... " in a strangely subservient, pleading way. "I knew there was something going on there," she remembers. "From his point of view, not from Paul's. And he was so angry at Paul, I couldn't help wondering what it was really about.""

Philip Norman, John Lennon: The Life, 2008

I’m sure that if he had been a woman or something, he would have been a great threat, because there’s something definitely very strong with me, John, and Paul.

Yoko Ono, Revolution Tape, June 4th 1968

Friends & acquaintances comments on his sexuality:

I realised I was probably bisexual; there was nothing to be ashamed of in this – John Lennon had reputedly spoken to mutual friends of his own experiments.

Who I Am: A Memoir, Pete Townshend 2012

PAUL: There were lots of people asking cheeky questions, and they were always saying, “Well, why–have you ever tried homosexuality, John?” You know, they always used to ask all that kind of stuff. I remember John saying to them, “No, I’ve never met a fella I fancy enough.” And that was his kind of opinion. You know, “I may go–I may be gay one day, if some fella really turns me on.” He was–he was that open about it. But as far as I was concerned, I slept in a million hotel rooms–as we all did–slept in a million places with John, and there was never any hint of it.

December 24th, 1983: interview with DJ Roger Scott

“And you, Icke?” asked Paul. “Who’s your favourite author?” “Henry Miller. I think he’s very good,” I said. In that moment John suddenly looked over at me. Until then he had been watching Bettina, the bar lady, rinsing glasses and tidying up the bar, with his typical somewhat blasé expression. Our discussion hadn’t seemed to interest him much. Now he was looking directly into my eyes. Quietly and without taking his eyes off me, he walked around the whole counter over to me, planted a kiss on my mouth and went back to his spot. At first, I was quite surprised and didn’t know what to do about it, then I found it rather funny and thought little of it. A few days later, it happened again. I happened upon* him in the hallway behind the stage and again he took my hand and kissed me. At some point the thought occurred to me, “man, he thinks I’m gay, but I can’t help him with that.” What was really going on, I don’t know. Maybe he meant the kisses as overtures; he was even treated as a closet case by homosexuals.

Hans-Walther (Icke) Braun (a friend of the Beatles in Hamburg)

"What happened," John explained, "is that Eppy just kept on and on at me. Until one night I finally just pulled me trousers down and said to him: 'Oh, for Christ's sake, Brian, just stick it up me fucking arse then.' "And he said to me, 'Actually, John, I don't do that kind of thing. That's not what I like to do.' "'Well,' I said, 'what is it you want to do, then?' "And he said, 'I'd really just like to touch you, John.' "And so I let him toss me off." And that was that. End of story. "That's all, John?" I said. "Well, so what? What's the big fucking deal, then?" "Yeah, so fucking what! The poor bastard. He's having a fucking hard enough time anyway." This was in reference to the "butch" dockers who, on several recent occasions, had rewarded Brian's advances by beating him to a bloody pulp. "So what harm did it do, then, Pete, for fuck's sake?" John asked rhetorically. "No harm at all. The poor fucking bastard, he can't help the way he is." "No need to get so worked up," I said. "You know I don't give a shit. What's a fucking wank between friends anyway?"

Pete Shotton, Nicholas Schaffner, John Lennon: In My Life, 1983

I think he was trying to find himself a… what he’d call a soulmate. Someone who had as mad ideas as he had. I think he felt that she had the talent… but that’s debatable. But he needed that— he didn’t need a ‘mumsie’ partner at that point. He needed a mate. And I think he actually said, at some stage, in an interview that, you know— She’s the nearest thing to a man — a mate; man — that he’s ever had in a woman.

Cynthia Lennon, interviewed by Alex Belfield for BBC Radio (2006).

Paul wrote to me from the Star Club in Hamburg once, a great letter, it even had doodles on the front of it, but it was stolen. He said that in one of the clubs one night John Lennon ended up with a stunning, exotic-looking woman—only to discover on closer inspection that she was a he, which all the other Beatles found hilarious.

Sue Johnston (actress), The Mirror. (August 23rd, 2011)

Though raised amid the same homophobia as his companions, John seemed totally unshocked by St Pauli’s abundant drag scene; indeed, he often seemed actively to seek it out. ‘There was one particular club he used to like,’ Tony Sheridan remembers, ‘full of these big guys with hairy hands, deep voices—and breasts. But they used to make an effort to talk English. There was something about the place that seemed to make John feel at home.’

In John Lennon: The Life by Philip Norman (2008).

“We’d read all these things about leather and we didn’t have any leather but I had my oilskins and we had some polythene bags from somewhere. We all dressed up in them and wore them in bed. John stayed the night with us in the same bed. I don’t think anything very exciting happened and we all wondered what the fun was in being ‘kinky’. It was probably more my idea than John’s.”

Royston Ellis

In the same book Pauline speculates, sensationally, that John and her brother had a homosexual relationship. ‘I have known in my heart for many years that Stuart and John had a sexual relationship,’ she writes, though she fails to provide any firm evidence. Pauline wonders whether this ‘relationship’ was the real cause of the antagonism between Paul and Stu.

Fab, An Intimate Life of Paul McCartney

Journalist & author comments on his sexuality:

“No, he wasn’t sexually attracted to Paul. Paul was very very pretty, but he actually wasn’t someone who made gay men fancy him. John was much more likely to make a gay man like Brian Epstein because John seemed so straight, there was nothing sort of girly about John at all. But John wanted to be, in his mind, a real artist, that is someone who painted and did sculpture. And he thought that a real artist or he called it a bohemian, should be open to all experiences. He should perhaps have a homosexual experience. Who was around? Paul was around. They used to share beds you know, in these cheap hotels when they would go around with the Beatles. There was never any question of Paul ever reciprocating such a thing, it was merely a thought that according to Yoko had flitted across John’s mind. Now John could use sexuality, I mean he did somewhat play on the fact that Brian Epstein, the Beatles manager, was in love with him you know, but it was just a game really with John.”

Philip Norman interview

"Yet even [John's resentment over Paul announcing the breakup first] does not explain his later remark to Yoko that no one had ever hurt him the way Paul hurt him. It almost suggests that, deep beneath the schoolboy friendship and the complementary musical brilliance, lay some streak of homosexual adoration that John himself never realised. He might have longed to get away from Paul, but he could never quite get over him."

Philip Norman, Shout!, 1981

And any mention of Paul brought a wintry bleakness to her face. 'John always used to say,' [Yoko] told me at one point, 'that no one ever hurt him the way Paul hurt him.' The words suggested a far deeper emotional attachment between the two than the world had ever suspected---they were like those of a spurned lover---and I naturally included them in my account of my visit for the Sunday Times. After it appeared, I returned to my London flat one evening to be told by my then girlfriend, ‘Paul, phoned you.’ She said he wanted to know what Yoko had meant and that he’d seemed upset rather than angry.

Paul McCartney: The Life - Philip Norman.

“If you had a choice, Eppy,” John said, “if you could press a button and be hetero, would you do it?” Brian thought for a moment. “Strangely, no,” he said. A little later a peculiar game developed. John would point out some passing man to Brian, and Brian would explain to him what it was about the fellow that he found attractive or unattractive. “I was rather enjoying the experience,” John said, “thinking like a writer all the time: I am experiencing this.” And still later, back in their hotel suite, drunk and sleepy from the sweet Spanish wine, Brian and John undressed in silence. “It’s okay, Eppy,” John said, and lay down on his bed. Brian would have liked to have hugged him, but he was afraid. Instead, John lay there, tentative and still, and Brian fulfilled the fantasies he was so sure would bring him contentment, only to awake the next morning as hollow as before.

Peter Brown, The Love You Make, 1983

“[John and Janov] talked…about Brian Epstein…‘He knew Brian had adored him, and there was a lot of guilt there about the way he'd depended on Brian yet mistreated him,’ Janov recalls. They talked about John's notorious Spanish holiday with Brian in 1963 and the (to John) insignificant physical encounter that had resulted. The more Janov heard about Brian, the more he longed to have had him as a patient. ‘God, that was a tragic story. There was someone who needed therapy even more than John did.’”

Phillip Normans book, John Lennon: The Life.

Whilst the Beatles had always been marketed as a heterosexual group - in contrast with the Stones, whose image was androgynous - they were sympathetic to the homosexual population. Lennon himself was alleged to have had affairs with both men and women, and although he never openly admitted it to me, his condemnation of Britain as a land which feeds on a homosexual subsculture persuades me at this late stage that he was speaking from experience. I am sure that the break-up of the Beatles, or, more specifically, of John and Paul, must have been more traumatic than any of us suspect.

Sandra Shevey, The Other Side of Lennon

‘OK: John Reid said that when we were in Boston with Elton and John in 1974, he couldn’t resist asking John whether the rumours about him and Epstein were true. This was in response to John having said to John Reid, “You’re the most intimidating man I’ve met since Brian Epstein.” And so John Reid, never knowingly one to miss an opportunity, said, “Did you ever have sex with Brian?” And John said, “Twice. Once to see what it was like, and once to make sure I didn’t like it.” ‘All these years, by the way, I have not wanted to be the guy who declared, “John Lennon and Brian Epstein had sex.” You can appreciate how I feel about this. Do we want the historical record to be accurate, or does John have a right to privacy? And would it upset Cynthia [by now deceased], or Julian? I don’t mind about Yoko, she’d probably think it was a great idea. Bisexuality, wooh.’ ‘Simon Napier-Bell said that both Epstein and John told him they did it in Spain,’ I said. ‘Ah, I’m not the only one. Good,’ replied Paul.

...

But then there were John’s liaisons with David Bowie, which David himself told me about. According to him, it happened on several occasions. He didn’t go into detail, nor did I press him, but he was perfectly open about it. About Mick Jagger, too, I told Paul. ‘Huh. I feel sort of left out,’ said Paul.

Paul Gambaccini, Lesley-Ann Jones - The Search for John Lennon

"That Bowie worshipped Lennon was no secret…They'd met in Los Angeles, [Bowie] told me, during John's Lost Weekend…The crazy pair went out to play, according to David, when John was on yet another break from May [Pang] and far away from Yoko. They gender bendered about, John indulging again that 'inner fag' of his… They later 'hooked up': 'There was a whore in the middle, and it wasn't either of us,' David smirked. 'At some point in the proceedings, she left. I think it was a she. Not that we minded.' By the time they made it back to New York, the ambisextrous pair were 'lifelong friends!"

Lesley-Ann Jones - The Search for John Lennon

Marriage, Divorce & replacing Paul with Yoko:

"I used my resentment and withdrawing from Paul and the Beatles and the relationship with Paul to write 'How Do You Sleep?'

John (Source: Bill Harry, The John Lennon Encyclopedia, 2001)

JOHN: In a marriage, or a love affair – when the seven-year-itch or the twelve-year (note: there is no such thing as the twelve year itch but guess how long J&P were together) or whatever these things that you have to go through – there comes a point where the marriage collapses because they can’t face that reality, and they go seeking what they thought they should be having, still, somewhere else. I get a new girl, it’ll all be like that again; I get a new boy… But for all marriages, all couples, it’ll all be the same again. But what you lose is what you put into that… relationship.

September, 1980

There seem to be certain cycles that relationships go through. And the critical points are at different parts of the different cycles, different points on the – if there’s a straight line, there are different points, you know? And the bit, the new way of talking is like, “Well, why have a relationship? We can just stop and get another one.” But the karmic joke about that is, that any new relationship, presuming you’re lucky enough to find a new relationship anywhere near the relationship that you’re giving up – or exchanging, or walking away from, or have destroyed by inattention or inadvertent or selfishness or whatever it is – that you have to go through the same thing again anyway. You reach the same point.

John Lennon, interview w/ David Sheff for Playboy. (September, 1980)

"I'd like to thank Elton and the boys for having me on tonight. We tried to think of a number to finish off with so I can get out of here and be sick, and we thought we'd do a number of an old estranged fiancé of mine called Paul."

John, introducing "I Saw Her Standing There" at the Thanksgiving show at Madison Square Garden in 1974

You know, John loved Paul. No doubt about it. I remember once he said to me, “I’m the only person who’s allowed to say things like that about Paul. I don’t like it when other people do.” He didn’t like if other people said nasty things about Paul. And he always referred to Paul as his estranged fiancé and things like that, like he did on that [live] record ‘I Saw Her Standing There’ with Elton in Madison Square Garden.

1990: Former Beatles publicist Tony King

TRYNKA: When The Beatles split, did you feel relief? YOKO: No. I always thought, “John won’t be doing this thing with The Beatles and eventually I can do my work too.” That was my plan. But suddenly he’s saying, “I burned my bridge with them, so now it’s you, okay?” I thought, “My God, he was getting the thrill of working with three very strong individuals, and now I have to take all that brunt.” He did put it that way; he was “riding on the boat called Paul, and now I’m going to ride on a boat called Yoko.”

Yoko Ono, interview w/ Paul Trynka for MOJO. (May, 2003)

“. . . I mean, I think really what it was, really all that happened was that John fell in love. With Yoko. And so, with such a powerful alliance like that, it was difficult for him to still be seeing me. It was as if I was another girlfriend, almost. Our relationship was a strong relationship. And if he was to start a new relationship, he had to put this other one away. And I understood that. I mean, I couldn’t stand in the way of someone who’d fallen in love. You can’t say, “Who’s this?” You can’t really do that. If I was a girl, maybe I could go out and… But you know I mean in this case I just sort of said, right – I mean, I didn’t say anything, but I could see that was the way it was going to go, and that Yoko would be very sort of powerful for him. So um, we all had to get out the way.”

Paul McCartney, interview with German tv program Exclusiv, April 1985.

BARROW: She was a very strong influence on John, and may well have been telling him that he could do best on his own, but I still think that on the back of John’s mind would be this sort of fascination with wanting to get back with the first girlfriend, if you’d like [laughs], and it was to get back with Paul that he had so much history with.

Tony Barrow, The Beatles’ press officer

"[Paul] said it was written about Julian. He knew I was splitting with Cyn and leaving Julian then. He was driving to see Julian to say hello. He had been like an uncle. And he came up with 'Hey Jude.' But I always heard it as a song to me. Now I'm sounding like one of those fans reading things into it...Think about it: Yoko had just come into the picture. He is saying 'Hey, Jude' - 'Hey, John.' Subconsciously, he was saying, 'Go ahead, leave me.' On a conscious level, he didn't want me to go ahead. The angel in him was saying 'Bless you.' The Devil in him didn't like it at all, because he didn't want to lose his partner."

John (Source: Playboy, 1980)

SALEWICZ: Well, I always found it interesting the fact that he got – I mean, it seemed too much like coincidence to me, the fact that he got married a week or month after you. You know what I mean? PAUL: Yeah. I think we spurred each other into marriage. I mean, you know. They were very strong together, which left me out of the picture. So I got together with Linda and then we got strong with our own kind of thing. And I used to listen to a lot of what they said. I remember him saying to me, “You’ve got to work at marriage,” which is something I still remember as a bit of advice. I still remember that. Um… And then yeah, I think they were a little bit peeved that we got married first. Probably. In a little way, you know, just minor jealousies. And so they got married. I don’t know if that’s – I mean, who knows… [inaudible] making it up, anyway.

September, 1986 (MPL Communications, London): journalist Chris Salewicz

“If you look at interviews and stuff with John, from around about that time he was in Imagine [documentary] he kind of admits that he’s having problems with himself. So, well, the first thing you do when you’re having problems with yourself is you bitch about someone else. And the closest person was me…He had a real go at me. I personally think it was ‘cause he was trying to clear the decks for Yoko. He’s got a new love, he’s trying to say to her, “Look, baby, I love you. I hate those guys.”

Paul McCartney

"The line [the walrus was Paul] was put in partly because I was feeling guilty because I was with Yoko and I was leaving Paul. It's a very perverse way of saying to Paul: 'here, have this crumb, this illusion, this stroke - because I'm leaving.'" -John

Playboy, 1980

JOHN: And throwing in the line “the Walrus was Paul” just to confuse everybody a bit more. And because I felt slightly guilty because I’d got Yoko, and he’d got nothing, and I was gonna quit. [laughs; bleak] And so I thought ‘Walrus’ has now become [in] meaning, “I am the one.” It didn’t mean that in the song, originally. It just meant I’m the – it could have been I’m the – “I’m The Fox Terrier,” you know. I mean, it’s just a bit of poetry.

August, 1980: John talks to Playboy writer David Sheff about ‘Glass Onion’.

"I started thinking, 'Well, if that's the case [not getting back together], I had better get myself together. I just can't let John control the situation and dump us as if we're the jilted girlfriends.'"

The Beatles, Anthology, 1995

“After we’d done the One To One concert film,” recalled Steve Gebhardt, “I remember John saying to me that the days of everything being Johnandyoko – one word – were over. I was shocked.” Ono completed her record, Approximately Infinite Universe, which was greeted more positively than her previous releases. Lennon did his best to publicise it, writing a personal note to the Capitol Records boss asking him to throw the company’s weight behind it. But in mid-January 1973 Lennon and Ono quarrelled publicly at another party. “I wish I was back with Paul,” Lennon reportedly said.

Peter Doggett, You Never Give Me Your Money: The Battle for the Soul of The Beatles. (2009)

YOKO: I think that it’s like [John] was married to Paul, and now he was married to me… So it was a situation that he didn’t feel like he wanted to go back, really. John had a lot of respect for Paul, and of course, love. But I would think that if the truth may be told, the love was lost on both ways. There were times that Paul did say a lot of strange things about John, so that I know that it wasn’t like Paul loved John but John didn’t love Paul, or John actually loved Paul but Paul didn’t. I mean, it was like a very healthy situation where they outgrew each other’s company. And only until John became what he is now – which is after John’s death that people started to revere John – it became an issue for Paul. Because you have to understand that table was turned many times. One, when John made the Jesus Christ remark, and Paul became virtually a leader. And John turned the table on Paul by becoming a partner with me, probably. But then the thing is, the table was turned again by Paul becoming extremely successful with Wings. So he was doing alright, while John did Some Time in New York City with me, and then followed that with Mind Games or something, you know. 1990: Yoko

“They loved each other more than most couples do, and when they split it was more wrenching than most divorces”

Beatles publicist Tony Barrow on Lennon and McCartney

““I’m sure that in the case of Paul there’s that feeling that I’m the woman who took away his partner – it’s like a divorce.””

Yoko Ono (You Never Give Me Your Money, Peter Doggett)

“On March 12, Paul married Linda Eastman at Marylebone Register Office in London, amid scenes of hysterical grief from his female fans. None of the other Beatles was present. The news reached John as he and Yoko were driving down to visit Aunt Mimi in Poole. Yoko’s divorce decree had become final a few weeks earlier, and, in a resurgence of Beatle copycat, John told her they, too, must get married as soon as possible”

Philip Norman, John Lennon: The life

“Then also we were like married, so you got the bitterness. It’s not a woman scorned this time, it’s two men scorned — probably even worse. And I had to make way for Yoko. My relationship with John could not have remained as it was and Yoko feel secure.”

Paul McCartney, Interview by Duncan Fallowell in the Chicago Tribune, October 14th, 1984

Knowing John so well, I believe that the only reason he picked Yoko was [he wanted] a negative reaction. I mean, it was purely a negative reaction because he couldn’t take any more girls in the world, actually. I mean, he knew that he could have any girl. And the girls, that were nice-looking—he couldn’t stand them. I mean, from morning to night, there were girls not boys—actually, running after them. We used to go to his house and think that we are in peace. Suddenly a girl with a broken leg is jumping over John’s fence to, to get an autograph. It was a pain in the neck. John wanted to be with a woman. But he needed as well very, very much a friend. He needed a male friend. And my opinion is that Yoko, he managed somehow to combine both. He had a fear for pretty women running after him. Yoko was not very pretty, uh, at all, and he replaced a male in his life plus a female.

Magic Alex, All You Need Is Love – Peter Brown & Steven Gaines

Jealousy regarding Paul Mccartney: I wouldn't consider any of this especially convincing on it's own, however John's consistent dislike for and rudeness towards Paul's partners is notable

I was a very possessive and jealous guy, and the lyrics explain that pretty clearly. Not just jealous towards Yoko, but towards everything, male and female – incredibly possessive.

1970 (audio snippet approx 2:06)

In an entry noting McCartney’s marriage to Linda Eastman, Lennon crossed out “wedding” and wrote “funeral”, the Observer said.

Associated Press: Lennon’s resentment of McCartney reflected in book notes. (July 20th, 1986)

Q: I saw that thing in The Observer the other week, about the manuscript of the Apple Beatles biography and the vitriolic comments John made in the margins. I think that shows the sort of pain he was going through. Look, he was a great guy, great sense of humour and I’d do it all again. I’d go through it all again, and have him slagging me off again just because he was so great; those are all the down moments, there was much more pleasure than has really come out. I had a wonderful time, with one of the world’s most talented people. We had all that craziness, but if someone took one of your wedding photos and put ‘funeral’ on it, as he did on that manuscript, you’d tend to feel a bit sorry for the guy. I’ll tell you what, if I’d ever done that to him, he would’ve just hit the roof. But I just sat through it all like mild-mannered Clark Kent Q: When did you actually get a perspective on it? I still haven’t. It’s still inside me. John was lucky. He got all his hurt out. I’m a different sort of a personality. There’s still a lot inside me that’s trying to work it out. And that’s why it’s good to see that wedding-funeral bit, because I started to think, ‘Wait a minute, this is someone who’s going over the top. This is paranoia manifesting itself.’ And so my feeling is just like it was at the time, which is like, He’s my buddy, I don’t really want to do anything to hurt him, or his memory, or anything. I don’t want to hurt Yoko. But, at the same time, it doesn’t mean that I understand what went down.

Paul McCartney: An Innocent Man? (October, 1986)

Q: "But for a while you didn't get along with Linda." JOHN: "We all got along well with Linda." Q: "When did you first meet her?" JOHN: "The first time was after that Apple press conference in America. We were going back to the airport and she was in the car with us. I didn't think she was particularly attractive. A bit too tweedy, you know. But she sat in the car and took photographs and that was it. And the next minute she's married him."

John Lennon Interview: St. Regis Hotel, New York City 9/5/1971

One night John came in and some chick was in bed with Paul and he cut all her clothes up with a pair of scissors, and was stabbing the wardrobe. Everybody was lying in bed thinking, ‘Oh fuck, I hope he doesn’t kill me.’ [He was] a frothing mad person—he knew how to have ‘fun.’

George Harrison, c/o Derek Taylor, Fifty Years Adrift. (1984)

"One time Paul had a chick in bed and John came in and got a pair of scissors and cut all her clothes into pieces and then wrecked the wardrobe. He got like that occasionally, it was because of the pills and being up too long."

George Harrison (Source: The Beatles, Anthology, 1995)

"I remember I had a girlfriend called Celia. I must have been 16 or 17, about the same age as her...we went out one evening and for some reason John tagged along, I can't remember why it was. I think he'd thought I was going to see him, I thought I'd cancelled it and he showed up at my house. But he was a mate, and he came on a date with this Celia girl, and at the end of the date she said, 'Why did you bring that dreadful guy?' And of course I said, 'Well, he's all right really.' And I think, in many ways, I always found myself doing that. It was always, 'Well, I know he was rude; it was funny, though, wasn't it?'"

Paul, Barry Miles, Many Years From Now, 1997

I came for dinner, and I was the only girl there. John definitely didn't like that. He didn't like me being there at ALL. He was mean and sarcastic. As far as he was concerned, I had no business being invited to dinner with the four of them. For him this was an exclusive boys' club. He was purposely making me feel uneasy. At one point, the boys were handing around a scrapbook -- looking at pictures of that first tour. John made some snide comment like, "What is SHE doing here?" I got the idea that he thought Paul was an idiot to take a girl so seriously he'd actually invite her to dinner, when all he really needed to do was fuck her AFTER dinner.

Peggy Lipton, Breathing Out, 2005

Whether it was her cool confidence or her posh accent, something about Jane goaded John to direct his caustic eyes in her direction. “Well. Let’s all play a question-and-answer-game!” He announced a bit too cheerily. Then he turned to Jane. “So tell us, luv, how do girls play with themselves?” Silence. Jane’s eyes widened. Paul, sitting close to her on the floor, put his hand in the air, as if he could wave John’s words back into his mouth. “John! John!” he yelped. “Stop it. You can’t do that.” John just smiled, peering intently through his glasses. “No, you can tell us. Come on. We all want to know, come on.” Paul, looking aghast, shook his head vehemently. “John. For christsakes, John.”

Peter Ames Carlin, Paul McCartney: A Life

JOHN: So it was always the family thing, you see. If Jane [Asher] was to have a career, then that’s not going to be a cozy family, is it? All the other girls were just groupies mainly. And with Linda not only did he have a ready-made family, but she knows what he wants, obviously, and has given it to him. The complete family life. He’s in Scotland. He told me he doesn’t like English cities anymore. So that’s how it is. MCCABE: So you think with Linda he’s found what he wanted? JOHN: I guess so. I guess so. I just don’t understand… I never knew what he wanted in a woman because I never knew what I wanted. I knew I wanted something intelligent or something arty, whatever it was. But you don’t really know what you want until you find it. So anyway, I was very surprised with Linda. I wouldn’t have been surprised if he’d married Jane Asher, because it had been going on for a long time and they went through a whole ordinary love scene. But with Linda it was just like, boom! She was in and that was the end of it.

John Lennon, interview w/ Peter McCabe and Robert Schonfeld. (September, 1971)

Random cute things: flirting etc

I remember we were going down to the studio [...] and there was a great crowd pressing against the car. John was sitting in the back and he said, “Push Paul out first. He’s the prettiest.”

Victor Spinetti, in the documentary You Can’t Do That! The Making of ‘A Hard Day’s Night’ (1995).

We were away. The boys had relaxed. As we walked off to do the next scene, I heard them joshing each other, like schoolboys on the way to class. 'Are those jeans tight, Paul?' That was John. 'What do you mean tight?' 'I can see your suspender belt through 'em and your stockings. You've got ladders in them.'

Up Front: His Strictly Confidential Autobiography by Victor Spinetti

“I could even hear what they were saying off-mike; ‘Oh Paul, you’re so cute tonight.’ was met with the reply ‘Sod off, Lennon.’”

Joan Baez on accompanying the Beatles to their concert in Red Rocks Amphitheatre, Denver. 26 August 1964

To Lennon, [Paul] was "cute, and didn’t he know it," a born performer who was also a "thruster" and an "operator" behind the scenes.

Christopher Sandford, Paul McCartney, 2005

In a late wee-hour-of-the-morning talk, he once told me, ‘I’m just like everybody else Harry, I fell for Paul’s looks.”

Harry Nilsson speaking about John Lennon

HARRY: Someone told me a few minutes ago they saw John walking on the street [once] wearing a sign saying – a button, rather, saying ‘I Love Paul’. And this girl who told me that said she asked him, “Why are you wearing the button that says ‘I Love Paul’?” He said, “Because I love Paul.” [laughs]

February 17th, 1984: Harry Nilsson

PAUL: It’s like, uh, “We have to get back.” “We’re on our way home.” JOHN: Yeah. PAUL: There’s a story. There’s another one – ‘Don’t Let Me Down’. “Oh darling, I’ll never let you down.” Like we’re doing— JOHN: Yeah. It’s like you and me are lovers. PAUL: [reserved] Yeah. [pause] JOHN: We’ll just have to camp it up for those two. PAUL: Yeah. Well, I’ll be wearing my skirt for the show, anyway.

Get Back sessions

PAUL: Okay, “two of us riding nowhere” that’s as if…we’re like…two, but then “we’re on our way home” JOHN: It’s like we’re like a couple of queens. PAUL: Yeah. Well, you know. Well, I mean, that’s… JOHN: We’re a couple of queens… PAUL: That’s just too bad. Unless you want to get Paul and Paula in. Poetic license, John. JOHN: You’re telling me, Paul.

Get Back sessions

#mclennon #paul mccartney #john lennon #the beatles #philip norman's quotes are my favourite #that man deserves an olympic medal in mental gymnastics

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romana-after-dark · 8 months

Text

Guard Dog

Riader!Joel Miler x Dark!fem!reader

Masterlist : Taglist

Summary: Joel attempts to raid the wrong house, and having the Joel Miller on his knees before awakens something in you... and in him.

Content and Warnings: DEAD DOVE DO NOT EAT Dub con on Joel (Is it non con? idk. Idk how im supossed to tag this but it's no where near the violence of tww someone help), references to non con from Joel to other women, gun sucking, fem domme, dark!reader but Joel is also dark soooooo, subby Joel, dead bodies, Nick reference (if you read TWW you know lol), multiple orgasms, overstim, dumbification?

AN 1: This essentially came of two thoughts, me thinking hmmmm how to write raider!Joel in a new way? 2. I want to avenge Little One. Joel did her so dirty and is still doing her so dirty in the dark timeline addition, lowkey wanted someone to get revenge for her. Plus, subby Joel is always a win for Fen and Maura lol

AN 2: Shout outs to @ramblers-lets-get-ramblin and @toxicanonymity for talking me through this idea, esp Toxi for letting me use the gun blowjob bit lololol if you like that concept, I encourage everyone to check out toxi's raider joel Or maybe Jake's part in the chasing series

***********************

Whoever it was, they had chosen to raid the wrong fucking house.

Yes, you were a single woman. Yes you lived alone. But no, you were not helpless, far from it, actually. Whoever it was is lucky they had made it past the set of boobytraps thus far. Actually, it sounded like a few of them had been taken out as it was.

Joel watched in relief as the arrow went through Nick’s skull. Relief it wasn’t him. He never liked Nick that much anyway, real creepy guy. In fact, he didn’t like any of the men that this house had gotten either. It was exhausting, trying to lead a group of dumbasses and whatever the fuck was in here it wasn’t worth it, so Joel attempted to make his exit. Thing was, leaving was proving just as hard as entering was. Whoever lived here didn’t want anyone living to tell the tail. Stepping over the dead bodies of a few of his men, Joel had narrowly dodged more arrows, spikes, darts; the whole lot, until some secret fucking door opened up like a goddamn scooby-doo house and there you were, gun to his forhead.

“Joel fucking Miller, I’ll be damned.”

Joel narrowed his eyes. He didn’t recognize you, but you knew him. That wasn’t surprising, he’d gained a bit of a reputation from raiders, fireflies and regular people. “Who the hell are you?”

You tell him your name, first name at least, and make quick work of taking out the gun in his hand. “Armed with anything else, Miller?” He said he wasn’t, but you knew that was a lie. “Don’t believe that for a second.”

“Then why the hell did you ask?” His texan drawl was prominent, especially when he was worked up.

“More fun to mess with you.” Keeping the gun pressed up to his temple, you press your body against his in turn as you pat him down for more weapons. It didn’t hurt that he was handsome.

“JESUS!” Joel jumped as you grabbed at his ass. “Watch your fucking hands.”

You can’t help but giggle; he thinks he's in charge. “You could be hiding weapons anywhere-” He tenses as you slip your hand between his buttcheeks as much as his jeans allow. “-Can’t be too careful.”

Joel was a brutal man, you heard stories of his rage and carelessness for human life, including women. There’d been many such stories of him forcing himself on women, kidnapping and trafficking… maybe he needed a taste of his own medicine? You take your time on his top half, feeling up every muscle, every bit of pudge, every dip on his broad body. Then, onto the lower. Without hindrance, you grope at his crotch and are very impressed by the size of him; and amused by the way he’s already semi-hard. Men are so easy, it’s funny sometimes.

“This make you excited, Miller? Or does it scare you to be at a woman’s mercy for once? Maybe a little bit of both?”

Joel didn’t look at you, lips pursed in a hard line.

You continue, moving the gun to his pants as you kneel before him to check lower. “I bet this is more your speed isn’t it? Having a pretty woman on her knees?”

The scoff above you doesn’t go unnoticed. “Mighty full of ourselves, aren’t we?”

After taking a knife and a gun that were strapped to his ankle, you stand up, satisfied with your work and the ever-growing bulge in his pants. “I own a mirror, Miller. I know what I got going on.” Degrading won’t work on you. With a nudge, you press him towards your room.

“Yuh gonna kill me?” There was no fear in his voice when he asked. This was a man prepared for death whenever it came.

“We’ll see. Gonna have a little fun with you first.”

Having Joel Miller on his knees for you was a goddamn treat. He looked so good like this, so submissive even if his bratty little face wanted to put on a show.

“It’s natural, you know.” With a glance down, you let him know that you are referencing his half-hard cock. “The adrenaline.” You squat in front of him. “How many girl came when you forced yourself on them? How many felt their bodies betray them? Did you laugh at them for getting wet?”

“I didn’t-”

“It’s humiliating, isn’t it?” Your gun was still out, knowing physically he could probably overpower you still. You weren’t weak by any means, but you also were aware he had far more upper body strength, muscles bulging through the seem of his shirt sleeves. The cool end of the gun prodded at his face as he tried to keep calm; the bob of his adam's apple and subtle rise of his chest was giving away his nerves. It was exhilarating, having a man that many feared, the cause of death of so many men, someone of damn-near legendary status and his knees for you… You couldn’t help the reaction the thrill had in pooling in your stomach. It was natural, wasn’t it? That’s what you told Joel.

Using the gun, you move his face around a bit to really take in his features. Strong nose, curly salt and pepper hair, soft brown eyes and lips you just really wanted to make whimper.

“Your quite handsome, you know that?”

An ironic chuckle. “I have a mirror too, sweetheart.”

You can’t help smiling at him as you straighten back up. “Take off your shirt.”

He rolled his eyes but did as he was told.

“Obedient thing, aren’t you? Bet I could train you, bet that’s what you need, isn’t it?” You slip your hand in your pants, feeling up your own wet cunt as the thrill of power elevates things. “Tired of having to decide, having to lead…” Maybe the adrenaline was getting to you, but you suddenly wish you had a dick to make him suck. You don’t, so you settle for the next best thing. You tap his lips witht he barrel of the gun. “Open.”

Joel hesitates, a slight spark of fear in his pretty eyes as he keeps his lips tightly closed, and that just won't do. You slap his cheek with the gun, and as grunts in pain the seal of his lips pops open.

“Ah-mph” His cry of pain was quickly muffled by the gun being shoved in his mouth.

“Suck on it, cowboy. Act like you fucking enjoy it.”

You don’t think he needs to act. Joel sucks on your gun like he would a dick and you furiously finger yourself to his rhythm. As he closes his eyes, you can hear a low groan emitting from his throat and his hands twitching at his side.

“Touch yourself, go ahead.”

He didn’t need to be told twice, his right hand flying to the seam of his pants and palming at his full erection.

“Good boy, good fucking boy” You praise. “Just an obedient little dog pretending to be a lone wolf. Is that it? You just want someone to tell you what to do, huh?” You release the gun from his mouth and can’t help but grin as his lips chase it.

“Y-yes.” Joel admits, face strained in tension as he kept touching himself. Must hurt, being constrained like that.

“Take it out. Eyes on me.” You guide his face to look up at you with the tip of your gun. “Look in my eyes as you do it.”

As he released himself, Joel did indeed look up at you; he looked up at you as if you made the stars in the sky.

Once his cock was out, all 9 or so inches, you take off your sleep shorts and straddle over him but not yet putting it in. “I don’t think I need this gun anymore… but I think you like it.” When you sink down on him, gun pressed to his ribs as a firm reminder of who was in charge, you hold your breath in order to hear the simple whimpers and guttural groans that Joel tried so hard to hide.

“This is where you belong, isn’t it?” You goad him, eliciting a quiet ‘yes’ from his lips. “Under me, belong to me.”

You are speared on him, his dick spreading you open and stretching you unlike anything you had felt before and you loved it. Every chance you had, you felt his muscles, reveling in the fact such a physically strong man was so mental weak for you and only you.

“Can I cum? Please?” Joel begged for you, pleaded ever, lips quivering even as you kissed him.

“Almost there, baby, almost- mmmm- almost there. You can cum after me, okay?”

Joel nodded quick, tiny nods and hesitantly moved a hand to your hips. He looked up at you bouncing on his cock for permission, and when you nod back he goes to thumb at your clit.

“OH GOD!” You shout, breathless, slick all over your thighs and his pants, his touch sending you over the edge. You cum hard, walls pulsing all around him and he doesn’t ask again before spilling his seed inside you, filling you to the brim.

Your body relaxes, but then Joel throws you to the ground causing you to drop your gun and for a moment you thought he bested you, got you distracted; until he dove right into your cunt with no regard for the lost gun. He didn’t care about beating you, he cared about tasting you. As he desperately licked his cum out of your dripping hole, you tugging at his curls, Joel humped the floor as if he hadn’t just gotten released. You pull him close, riding out another orgasm on his face. When you cum a third time, you have to push him back, the overstimulation from the desperate man’s tongue, lips and beard being too much. When you do, he looks up at you with wide eyes as if he had done something wrong, but you pull up and into a kiss before laying him down on the floor to kiss him some more.

“Not sure if I wanna let go of you, cowboy…” You tease, playing with his hair but keeping him firmly pressed to the ground. “Might have to keep you around, but my little guard dog, how about that?”

Joel’s eyes were glossy, his face so fucked out you weren’t sure he was fully cognizant. “Baby boy too tired to speak? That’s okay, I’ll take care of you too. You be the arms; I’ll be the brains. You won’t have to have a single thought outside me again, okay?”

***********

Part 2 here

LOWKEY NERVOUS BC THIS IS SUCH A DIFFERENT JOEL AND HE DOESNT DO A LOT OF TALKING?!?!?!?!?!??! UNSURE HOW I FEEL

Anyway I do hope to write more maybe? so if you wanna be tagged comment below! I liek the idea of having a joel I can kinda just write stuff about whenever instead of a story and an arch and characters to balance. This is just more casual. and i dont gotta go nuts keepingup with posting like my other stories. Im think a v joel tess kinda vibe where she's clearly leading him

I was supossed to be working on the next part to my Javi P x reader x Santi AU buuuutttttttttttt I couldnt get this idea out of my head. So. here you all go! I'll try and work on that, the dark! TF boys, TWW, and the Will Miller story lol its kinda a lot rn

Please consider reblogging and commenting to support your fav writers <3

@fandxmslxt69 @moriartyyouwhore @hereforthepedrofanfic @alwaysmicado @noisynightmarepoetry @morallyinept @my-secret-shame-but-fanfiction @ramblers-lets-get-ramblin @the-fox-den @not-a-unique-snowflake-blog @k-ra

If you'd like to join the dark! taglist, click here! this is different from my regular taglist on my main account

If you'd like to join only on this tag list, comment below

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mari-lair · 1 year

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Nene and Aoi’s friendship doesn’t change and it is a problem.

Aoi is the first friend Nene makes at the academy, so they have known each other for a while.

Nene is sweet to Aoi, she consistently worries for Aoi well being when she is in danger, and shows great care for her, always going for Aoi when sharing her romantic woes.

The manga shows mostly Nene venting about love, while Aoi engage but never bring up her own problems. Aoi is guarded and rarely vulnerable with Nene, something that over the years, we are told Nene have noticed.

But when Nene says “Sometimes I think that she only gets close to me,” She is severely overestimating how much she understands Aoi, most of her interactions with Aoi are with a friendly persona.

When I say ‘friendly persona’, I do not mean Aoi is faking liking her, her friendship with Nene is genuine, Aoi only have two people she is deeply attached to at the start of the manga, and Nene is one of them. I just mean Aoi always shows off her cute and cheerful side, even when she isn’t feeling like the ‘cheerful girl’ she displays, her approach is always the same.

Her words here are condescending as hell but she still acts cutesy and friendly: It comes off as superficial. And a lot of what she says is pretty fake, just things that people expect a popular girl to say, things we know she doesn’t believe in or relate to:

“It’s all about experience!” “why don’t you date him just to try it out?” as if she ever dated someone, or viewed love and relationships as something to try out and move along, instead of a concept she is scared of.

But no matter how different from her personal beliefs Aoi’s words are, no matter how long Nene have known her, she always falls for the ‘popular girl’ approach.

Nene is confident Aoi is the girl everyone loves: She always pictures Aoi with a cute smile, oblivious in her throne, able to get any guy she wants.

And yet, even with that mental image, Nene doesn’t know what being popular really means.

When Aoi visits the stage, Nene is confused as to why she would ever go here.

Akane is the one who gives Nene an exposition on Aoi, dropping hints that her life is not a sea of roses.

When Nene hears this, she ignores that her friend was put in situations where she was pressured to do things she doesn’t want to, often in isolated places, to the point she constantly need to be protected, or how Akane looks troubled that this is a recurring problem. Instead, she focused on Akane’s devotion.

Nene’s fantasies of popularity are sugar coated, so she subconsciously undermines Aoi’s troubles and focuses on Akane’s behavior, which fits her personal reality that being popular is amazing and “Boys will do anything for Aoi, she is so desirable!”

Attention is attention, and since Aoi gets lots of attention, Nene puts Aoi on a pedestal: Give her a life devoid of issues.

Her view is in part Aoi’s fault. There is truth to what Akane said here:

Nene doesn’t ask about Aoi’s life, or go in dept about her own, but Aoi is the one that consistently plays along, she is the one that keeps the focus on superficial topics and make an effort to only shows Nene her cheerful and cutesy side. It makes their interactions feel empty: there isn’t a single instance in the manga where they have a talk that isn’t about boys, or school rumors, which are always used to move the plot along, not expand on the basis of their established friendship.

There is a mutual lack of interest to change what they have: Nene because she is content with the way things are and see no need for change, and Aoi because she is Aoi.

With Nene’s view of Aoi in mind, the lack of depth in their interactions, and Aoi’s playing along with the cheerful popular persona, I am not surprised Nene didn’t notice there was something weird with Aoi on the Grim Reaper Sacrifice arc.

Of course Aoi is so chirpy and playful after being kidnapped by a demon, nothing can phase her! Of course she knows the exit, that’s a popular girl for you!

The cute and smart Aoi is the only Aoi she knows well, so unlike Akane, Nene fully trusted her words and reasonings, falling in the hole.

Somehow, something as big as this betrayal doesn’t change her view on Aoi.

The only Aoi focused thought we get outside a chapter recap is “Sumire looks like Aoi.”

Which clearly has the “cute girl everyone can’t help but love” in mind.

When she does think about Aoi in the severance/rescue arc is always about the lifespan dilemma, not Aoi’s strange behaviour or why she acted like that. There is no wonder as to how Aoi feels, or if she did something wrong herself to be ‘thrown in the trash’, there is no thoughts at all about this other side Aoi have shown. No reflection.

Her view hasn’t changed in the slightest, just look at the way she talks about Aoi with Katakuri in the red house.

And we know that’s not true.

It was never true.

Nene is still her friend, she may be oblivious to a lot but she has been by Aoi’s side for years, so she knows more about Aoi than an average person would. She noticed Aoi genuinely loves and is proud of her plants.

She also knows Aoi has a crush on Akane and the knowledge made her discard him from being a possible crush option despite once upon a time finding him cute and worthy of dating.

Nene values their friendship more than any crush: Notice how Akane doesn’t show up on ‘Nene’s type’ list at all instead of dropping to ‘not her type’, subconsciously deciding he is not an option. Aoi’s feelings are more important.

This genuine care make the way she refuses to change her views on Aoi very sad.

Nene is so sure they are close and she gets Aoi, that she doesn’t understand that the Aoi she knows, who treasures her and loves plants and can feel distant, is just a fraction of the real Aoi. A very small fraction considering how long they have been friends, yet it’s understandable: Nene consistently covers her eyes when Aoi acts out of her persona and shows slivers of personal problems.

She doesn’t want her ‘universally loved’ best friend Aoi, and the Aoi that threw her in the trash to be the same people. She want thinks to stay the same, simple and sweet. To Nene, the cruel one was a brainwashed fake. That’s it. There is nothing else to it, no reason to think about it.

Which is not true.

We never get hints that imply the drug made Aoi do something against her will. Even after she completely snap out of the drug effect, Aoi owns her actions. She regrets it, deeply, but she also connects with it: She knows herself.

It’s because Aoi wasn’t faking it that she was so scared to apologize to Nene in the first place. She is shaking and anxious because it was her, an ugly part of her she isn’t fond of, but still a part of her: Still Aoi.

Nene saw her more unpleasant side. That terrifies Aoi.

This fear that Nene will hate her once she realizes who she is have been around for a while.

One of the few times Aoi was vulnerable and honest with Nene was in chapter 29, when she assumed Nene avoided her on purpose, because she ‘suddenly’ decided to hate Aoi.

When Nene heard this she is distressed, she doesn’t like seeing her friend sad, but there is no “I wonder why Aoi would think that...?”, no matter how unusual this insecurity is from Aoi’s ‘oblivious in her throne’ image, Nene doesn’t question it. We aren’t shown a single panel of Nene thinking about it.

But we are shown her thinking about the way Aoi makes people’s hearts race, which happened only two pages later, but is something Nene can easily fit into her established view on Aoi.

To Nene’s credit, Aoi is trying to distract Nene from her moment of vulnerability here, but it’s sad that it works so well.

“Is this a popular girl skill?” Aoi's personal mannerisms, no matter how distinct are always connected to that of a “popular girl” in Nene’s head. Is not malicious, but it shows ‘popular girl’ and ‘my best friend Aoi’ are interconnected in her head.

“Is this how you win men over, Aoi?” She doesn’t even suspect that Aoi isn’t a fan of all this attention, that unlike her, Aoi doesn’t want to 'win over’ any of the boys, even after Akane explicitly told Nene this attention is a problem in chap 24.

Aoi is aware of Nene’s simple view of her. It’s why she wasn’t honest in chapter 96.

We all noticed how scared she was of Nene’s reaction, she even flinched when she went to apologize

But Nene doesn’t ask for an explanation of why Aoi did it, she doesn’t address what happened, she doesn’t want to know about any of Aoi’s problems, truly just chalking Aoi’s actions as “Not Aoi” and being done with this to have her cute bubbly friend back;

So Aoi doesn’t address it either.

Aoi is super relieved that she isn’t outright hated.

She doesn’t go over her emotions about the events, you can feel Aoi’s walls coming back: She falls back to her friendly and cute persona.

She wasn’t putting hearts and flowers in her speech before her apology to Nene.

And Aoi may be naturally cute, a girl that enjoys cute clothes and using cute speech, but she never talks with hearts and flowers when she is vulnerable and honest about her feelings.

We can see how her speech ties with her vulnerability best when she talk cutely with Hanako on the far shore train to distract herself from her bleak situation, but the moment she shares her honest view on Akane her tone change, she drops it.

Aoi is genuinely happy that Nene still sees her as a friend, but when she say she is fine on chapter 96, she goes over the events without adding any personal thoughts, and change the topic the moment she finish giving exposition. Something Nene accepts and doesn’t question further.

Once more, she is giving Nene the perfect problem-less cute friend Nene wants, and their talk feels superficial.

Akane behavior changed drastically after Aoi’s rescue (no confessions, no compliments every second, more physical contact, and so on,) because he confronted her, forced Aoi to open up, and listened to what was the problem, what he had been doing wrong, and did his best to adapt accordingly: He took her off her pedestal while still showing her the attention and affection she craves.

Nene’s behavior is exactly the same because she likes what they have, and she refuses to change it: Aoi is the same Aoi as always or “The Aoi she knows” the “popular queen”, so she is also the same Nene as always.

She truly considers Aoi a dear friend, but an unchanging one.

She blinds herself to Aoi’s problems, so she can’t confront Aoi, and Aoi is too cowardly to have an honest talk with Nene that she is convinced could lead to Nene hating her.

They are in a stalemate where Aoi can’t be completely honest with Nene (with far more than Aoi losing feeling in her right hand) and I hope something changes.

#tbhk #toilet bound hanako kun #nene yashiro #akane aoi #aoi akane #jibaku shounen hanako kun #jshk #aoi is a far more dificult girl than people give her credit #notice how only akane give trust worthy expossition on aoi #character analysis

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wd-ghosty · 2 months

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Midnight Serenade

Donnie x reader fic

I really tacky like this concept so I wanted to write about it, so basically you and donnie go on a date. I still new to writing so pls be nice, hope you enjoy <3.

It’s late winter early spring as you’re getting ready for your date, last nights flurry left some snow on your ground so it’s best to bundle up a bit. As you were putting on your shoes, you hear a knocking on the window, “Come in!” your window slides open and a turtle boy whereinga shit ton of purpel crawls in after he threw in a picnic basket.

“I was scared i was gonna be late, but i see you’re not even done yet”

“Scoff! I’m putting on my shoes so i basically am done, what happened to mr. attention to detail?”

“Heyyy i thought you hated ot when i said scoff!?”

“I have no recollection of that conversation,” he rolled his eye at your comment as he sits down on your bed. You get up to go get the drinks from your kitchen. “Common lets go.”

The two of you take a train to Clark st, then walk over to the brooklyn bridge. The two of you trot along the bridge and you’re excited to see where donnie is taking you.

“We’re here,”

“...Donnie we’re still on the bridge.”

“Exactly. You’re good at balancing on polls right?”

You face went white when he said that. You look at the belts of the bridge then you look back at donnie nodding. Your soul sinks in your stomach and the look on your face has donnie rolling around on the groud, kicking and screaming, “I’m just kidding hun.” his hover bike thing pulls up and your melanin instantly comes back.

“If you pull that shit with me again I will hop on your ass like super mario and beat you with your already shitty shell!” donnie went agaps, jaw on the groud, hand on his chest.

“Damn, I didn’t know it would scare you that much?” he laughs off his nevers as the two of you get on his bike. The two of you hop of when you get to the top of one of the tower things inbetween the belts, the city lights illuminating everything around you so you can see perfectly. As you are admiring everything around you donnie starts to set up the picnic blanket, “Wow i didn’t know you’d like it here this much.”

“What do you mean? This is so cool, you act as if you come here regularly.” he looks up at you with a smile, “... you come here regularly don’t you?”

“It’s our new favorite hangout spot, and much more discrete then rooftops.”

"Theres a really busy street right below us. what's the difference?" You sit down across from donnie on the picnic blanket and you help him take everything out of the basket,

"The difference, most people aren't looking up when they're driving. And why would they take their eyes off the busy rode?"

"Mabey they have a death wish?"

"Mabey."

You pull of the heart shaped plates and glasses out of the bag and start to gush over them, “Don’t you just LOVE these cups i got you!?”

“Yeah, i love that, including the heart shaped wicker basket, and pillows, and chocolates… I know that sounds like sarcasm, but i do love it.” as the two of you continue to unpack you see your favorite cookies, and cupcakes.

“Donnie! You didn’t!”

“Why do you sound so surprised like i dont do this all the time?”

“Its because you remembered!”

“It’s hard to forget our favorite things when we always talk about them. Every time we’re hanging out one of us just starts ranting as the other is working.”

“I love that for us, and because of that I know just how much you ACTUALLY like Atomic Lass… that and i check you search history.”

“And I yours… I shoudln’t have done that.”

“I warned you. Anyone who got quezy durring the saltburn bath tub scene, couldn’t handle whats on my laptop.” you laugh a little remebering the first time the two of you watched that, he left the room multiple times.

When the two of you were done setting up you just started talking, about whatever came to your mind. LMK, jupiter jim, the boondocks, anything you guys liked, “oh do you remember when we watched violet evergarden together for the first time?”

“Ofcourse you started crying when the episode about the littel girl came on.”

“Which one?”

“The one with the mom the wrote a bunch of letters for you daughter before she died.”

“That one was soo sad! But it was really sweet, that is what i call motherly love”

“You cry for the dumbest things hun,” he starts laughing at you but you laugh with him, “You wont cry for sad movies whatsoever but the second you relate to a character you start bawling. As far as i'm aware you mother is still alive.”

“It’s not about the dead mother! Its aboutt he dedication to her child!'' Donnie just listened to you rambling on about it, your voice is basically white noise. The amount of times he’s fallen asleep just by being around you is countless, the ease you put him at is unmatched. “and that just pulled all my heart strings!”

As the night went on the two of you purely enjoyed eachothers company, and the sweets donnie brought. As the two of you talked a sertain song came on,

But when the morning comes

We'll burn it down and then

We'll build the world again...

Our love is God.

“I forgot this song was on this playlist,” Donnie trys to skip it but you stop him,

“Remebere when we were fourteen how we did a two person play of the heaters?”

“Yeah what abo- ohhh” donnie gets up on his feet, “you remember the lyrics right?” he holds out his hand for you.

“Ofcourse,” You take his hand as the two of you get into character.

Hi Kurt, it's Veronica

How did you guys know it was always a fantasy of mine to have two guys at once?

Wowuhh... lucky guess?

Well, if you want it to come true, meet me at the cemetery, at dawn

Free pussy!

And we don't even have to buy it a pizza!

Punch it in! Whaat?! Hahaha!

The two of you were both theater kids, singing together mixed with your average acting filled the two of you with joy way back when you were younger. The two of you join hands again as you shift to veronica and JD.

We can start and finish wars

We're what killed the dinosaurs

We're the asteroid that's overdue

The dinosaurs choked on the dust

They died because God said they must

The new world needed room

For me and you

Well your average acting, everytime the two of you sang this song donnie was too realistic. The way he would make your heart throb was supernatural. Despite being cold blooded your were never cold with you touched him.

I worship you.

I'd trade my life for yours

They all will disappear

We'll plant our garden here

He cups your cheek in the palm of his hand, as he kisses you. His hand was warm, everytime he held you, you felt safe. He pulled away from you and continued the song, and you joined him quickly after.

Our love is God

“You missed acouple lines hun.” he pecks your cheek,

“Only because you kissed me,”

“Stop acting like you did’t like it”

“Ugh.” he wraps his hands around you hips and stuffs his face in the crook of your neck.

...I worship you

I'd trade my life for yours

We'll make them disappear

We'll plant our garden here

Our love is God

“I love that song don.”

“I know you do hun.”

I hope you guys liked it! There some references that some people might not get, like the super mario reference, but still. Kiss, kiss, hope you have a good night, day, afternoon or whatever. <3

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picnokinesis · 4 months

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plottier / character focused thirteenth doctor fic recs

Ipseity by WalkerLister (43k, 10 chapters, gen) summary: Eight months since the Doctor sacrificed herself on Gallifrey, and Yasmin Khan is still struggling to move on. However, when she comes across a familiar face who is not acting like herself, Yaz may finally get the answers she has been looking for surrounding the Doctor. However, those answers will be revealed in a way a bit more dangerous than she had been anticipating. //Okay, so no one is surprised that I like the amnesiac!divisioned!13 fic, but in my defence, it's absolutely fabulous. This one was written waaaaay back in mid-2020, so we all knew that 13 was in prison and everyone was pretty sure that Jack was coming back due to some bts detective work, but that was about it - so, for obvious reasons, it doesn't align with ROTD, but it's such a fun one, guys, I love it a lot. Also, y'know, thirteen in a leather jacket and snarling at people? What more could you want?

don't have to make it to the moon by Ymae (28k, 7 chapters, gen/thoschei) summary: After New Year's, Ryan decides to stay traveling in the TARDIS for another little while. Only, the Doctor's rarely alright, and between experiencing the wonders of the universe, Ryan wants to figure out what's happening to his friend, too. //I love Ryan so much. He's such a wonderful character and I always love it when fics focus on him, or have him as the pov character. Unfortunately, fics like that are a bit few and far between, but this is one of them, and it's absolutely fantastic. It really delves into his character, but also his dynamic with the Doctor (especially after he talks to her in ROTD and she admits that she's scared and angry), and it's just auuuuuuugh so good!! And, it's also go some great whump and psychic content, with the Master showing up to cause trouble, alongside some gorgeous world-building, so I enjoy it very very much.

Ghost War by riptheh (25k, 1 chapter, gen) summary: All the Doctor wants to do is pass the time, and help a friendly face. So when a young man with a strange tattoo and a psychic wound shows up, she dives right into the mystery - and finds herself flung far into the future, mindwiped and alone, fighting a war that by all rights, shouldn't exist at all. A war she could help end, if only she could figure out who she is. //Oof, this one. It's absolutely stunning. This author really has a way of taking some absolutely fascinating and mind-bending concepts and just running with it, and just nails it each time. I feel like the less I say about the plot of this one, the better, because it sort of unfolds as you go, but please just trust me when I say that it's absolutely fantastic.

Lifelines by Sue_Denham (40k, 11 chapters, gen, wip) summary: Lifeline: a thing on which someone or something depends, or which provides a means of escape from a difficult situation. Set just after the events of Spyfall, the Doctor has a few things to work through. //Okay this fic is one of my favourites that's been posting over the last year or so - it's a brilliant exploration of Graham and Thirteen, and how different races deal with loss, guilt and death. I honestly think the best kind of sci fi takes concepts that we sort of take for granted, and then shows them in a completely new light. That's what this fic does. Also, Graham is just wonderful for the entire thing - though, as a note, Yaz and Ryan do end up somewhat side-lined, so bear that in mind if you're particularly looking for fics about those two, but I forgive it because it's such a great look at Graham and the Doctor. It feels like a character focused tie-in novel, y'know? Also it's pretty angsty in places, naturally, but that's what I'm here for haha.

Disordered by Echo (44k, 7 chapters, jack/13) summary: Messing with memories is always a risky business. Messing with your own memories, now that's just asking for trouble. The Doctor is very good at asking for trouble. And Jack is very good at finding it. //Ohhhhh okay so. This has been one of my absolute favourite Doctor Who fics for a long while. Definitely the shippiest of this list, but it's so lovely and such an excellent look at the Doctor facing the consequences of trying to get back her Division memories in the aftermath of s12, as well as the relationship between the Doctor and Jack across multiple regenerations. It's just so so good, flowing smoothly from very angsty to very soft, and the Doctor and Jack's voices are just spot on (especially considering that we see different versions of the Doctor, this is a particularly impressive note). Highly recommend!

The Trial of the Doctor by wreckageofstars (20k, 5 chapters, gen/thasmin, wip) summary: Haven is a planet at the edge of time, on the brink of destruction. Ravaged by the Time Lords and a war that time forgot, its people are desperate for justice before it’s too late, and the Doctor might be the only being left in the universe who can provide it — because she was the one who started it. So why can't she remember doing it? //Okay okay so, this one has only recently started posting but I've known about it since about 2020 and ohhhhhhhhhhh my goodness, GUYS. If you're not following this one, you need to be. It's a mix between Doctor Who at it's finest, Kafka at it's most unsettling, and Douglas Adams at it's most absurd, and it's delightful. There's so much in this one, and as always this author is just spot on with all the characterisation - especially Thirteen, who suddenly finds herself being prosecuted for a crime that she can't remember, and is forced into a situation where she's physically incapable of telling a lie. It. Is. Marvellous. Also there's a cockroach lawyer, whom I adore HAHA

lighthouse keeper by BlueLillyBlue (57k, 12 chapters, gen) summary: The Doctor is missing, and the fam is concerned. Featuring Yaz being a badass, Ryan being a cutie, Graham being a granddad, Jack being Jack, and the Doctor's complicated moral code. Also: space prisons, galactic war, the Doctor's time war trauma, the Doctor caring about people in her own weird and repressive way, and, most importantly, Thirteen wearing Jack's coat. //Oh, this one is such a favourite of mine. It's very angsty, so if that's not your schtick then - well, then you're kinda scuppered for all of my recs, to be honest, but this one is a bit on the dark side. Oh, but it's fantastic. Again, this one feels like a tie-in novel, and this author (as I think I've said before) is just incredible at crafting these very vivid worlds and really hard-hitting stories. The situation is pretty dire and desperate, and the Doctor is often faced with the fact that not every plan works out, and sometimes the only choices are bad ones. It's just really excellent guys (also! Thirteen in Jack's coat!!)

angel ellipsis by SleepyMaddy (36k, 8 chapters, gen/thoschei) summary: When the Doctor and Yaz find a planet in ruins, they’re only half surprised to discover the Master is responsible. But when his plan backfires, suddenly they have no choice but to work with him to stop his former allies from tearing the universe apart. It goes about as well as one might expect. //OKAY SO. This one is SO much fun and SO great - in particular, if you like the Master being a tricky bastard, but also getting screwed over by his own plans? You'll love this one. Everything about it is so vibrant and brilliant, and aaaaaahh man it all comes together in such a satisfying way. As with many of the authors on this list, this author just really gets these characters and how they tick, with some absolutely beautiful prose, and it's just such a joy to read.

nothing in the dark that isn't there in the light by river_of_words (6k, 1 chapter, thasmin) summary: Two weeks since Yaz got the most confusing rejection she ever hopes to get and the Doctor seems to have decided to blame Yaz for every single one of her furiously conflicting emotions. At this point she’s sort of asking to get hit. And at this point Yaz is sort of curious to find out what the Doctor is going to say that’s going to make her meet that request. //These next two fics are a lot shorter compared to the others, but I really wanted to include both of them because they're great and SO interesting to me. With this one, it digs into the Doctor and Yaz's relationship in the aftermath of LOTSD, and the ways that the Doctor does not actually talk about anything but does also tell Yaz more than anyone else. It's about the frustration that builds between them and the way that they're still finding more comfort in each other than anyone else. It's also a little feral, which as a thoschei shipper, definitely had a lot to do with why I liked this one haha. Anyway, it's really fantastic - really quick paced and emotional, and packing a LOT of punches with mostly dialogue in a very effective way. Go read it!

we'll do it right by daring_elm (3k, 1 chapter, gen) summary: She's never really noticed Yaz's perfume before. Shoulders relaxing, nausea subsiding, the Doctor inhales again, filling her lungs with jasmine and sandalwood, steel and glowing crystals and her box out of time. She can be back with Yaz within minutes of her leaving. She can save the child, change the foundation of Gallifrey and still return to have a picnic on Soria T4. //Okay so I loooove love love this one because I just adore it any time someone explores the Doctor's reaction to the Timeless Child stuff after the fact, and this one is just so wonderful. The characterisation is just fantastic, and then just the progressive spiral of the plot as we follow the Doctor on a mission that is doomed to fail by the nature of her own timeline. It's about how by trying to change the past, all you do is mess up your present and your future, and I love that a lot. Augh, it's a gut punch and a half - highly recommended!

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your-averagewriter · 9 months

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"She's my wife."

Summary: Miguel thought you and his daughter died and you thought the same about him but when the truth comes out it makes for an emotional reunion of a small family (I changed Gabriella's age so the story would flow better)

Word count: 1.2K

Warnings: grief, kissing

Miguel’s eyes focus on the familiar group in front of him on his screen, a video he’s watched only too many times, so many that he can recite the words you say. He counts down the seconds until you walk onto screen watching your reaction to him and Gabriella wearing the matching outfits you bought for them, Gabriella only being about one at the time.

You walk in the room, your hands over your eyes before dropping them and cooing at the adorable scene ahead of you: Gabriella hugging Miguel as he’s wearing a begrudging smile.

When you and Gabriella first died he would re-watch the videos with tears in his eyes, angry tears but now he just watches them with longing in his eyes.

You, however, did not die nor Gabriella but you were accidentally sent to a different reality, leaving Miguel behind, except you thought he died just like he thought you died. In the other reality you had obtained “Spiderman” powers (through the usual way) and made sure that you protected Gabriella with your life for a few years before you’re recruited by some other Spider people who say they’re from another reality.

The concept of different realities is not a foreign one to you but you didn’t realise that there was a whole organisation called the Spider Society set up.

“Can you go over it again?” You ask, resting your head in your palm, all the science talking making your head hurt.

The Spiderwoman in front of you who you now know as Jessica explains the whole thing to you again, but leaves out the science making it easier to understand and conceptualise.

“And you want me to join?” You ask.

“Yeah, I’ve been monitoring you for a while now and I checked with a couple of colleagues and we decided to invite you. We’ll still have to introduce you to the boss though because we didn’t check with him before talking to you.” She says.

“Okay, I’ll check it out if you can take me wherever it is but I’m not making any promises. And I need to take my daughter with me.” You say, bargaining with the small group.

“That’s totally fine.” She says with a smile, handing me a couple of watches.

“Now?” You ask, surprised about the efficiency.

“Are you busy?” She asks.

“No but I’ll have to get my daughter…” You trail off, moving through the apartment to Gabriella’s room. “Hola, ‘Riella.” You say, using the nickname that Miguel gave her. You give her a brief explanation basically that you had to go somewhere for work and that she had to come as well.

A few minutes later, you emerge from the room holding a young sleepy girl ready to go. It takes another few minutes to fully explain the portal system and eventually you’re flying through the multiverse staring at all the bright colours, careful to hold on to Gabriella.

Later, you step out of the portal next to Jess, opening your eyes to reveal countless Spidermen and Spiderwomen including animals like a Spider Cat? You question, unsure you’re seeing everything correctly.

You’re quickly led through the building by Jess, clearing used to the craziness of this place as she navigates easily. The people here are friendly enough though as the amount of smiles and “hello”s you receive is incredible.

“So, I’m gonna introduce you to my boss, he runs pretty much everything here and he can be a little scary sometimes but don’t worry about it, okay?” You nod, more scared than you were before her reassurance.

She pushes open the door to reveal a slowly lowering platform, a man sat in a chair on the platform. Jess stands in front of mm and it almost seems as though she’s trying to protect you from him which only worries me more.

The platform reaches the floor and the man stands up from the chair not having yet turned around and you can feel my nerves peaking, until he turns around.

Instantly, my eyes widen and I don’t believe I can be seeing things correctly and my reaction is mirrored on his face. I stand frozen to the ground, shocked to my core as I stare at him scanning over his features making sure I’m correct. That’s my husband. My husband who is supposed to be dead.

“So, (y/n), this is-” You interrupt her staring at the man in front of you who’s staring back at you.

“Miguel?” You question quietly causing confusion to arise on Jess’ face.

“Oh, you guys know each other?” Jess asks as you begin to move towards Miguel.

Holding on to Gabriella gently, you walk towards the man who stands frozen. After he registers your movement he mimics it, walking towards you until you meet in the middle him immediately wrapping his arms around you. You never realised how much you missed the feeling of his arms around you until you feel the warmth and safety he provides you with.

“(y/n)?” He says, questioning you with an unstable voice.

“Yeah.” You say, tears gathering and leaving your eyes as you cling onto his large body.

It stays silent for moments although to you it feels like years, thankfully. After these moments you slowly pull myself away from him,

“I don’t understand how you’re alive but I don’t care right now.” You say raising your hand to his face, stroking over the rough “stubble”, but it’s more like he just forgot to shave for a few days.

You smile through teary eyes, looking up at your husband who towers over you. You get on your tip toes but you’re still not tall enough to reach his lips so you wrap your free hand around the collar of his Spiderman suit, tugging him down to your level and smashing your lips against his. He used to chuckle when you had to pull him down to your level but now he’s just happy to be with you in the moment. The videos combined could never live up to the reality of him having you here with him.

His lips are rough and chapped, not how you remembered and his hands are coarse, the time spent without you had clearly not been a good time. It wasn’t for you, desperately trying to protect and provide for Gabriella without Miguel by your side - it certainly wasn’t easy but it doesn’t matter now because you’re together and now no one will be able to change that ever again.

“So, you do know each other?” Jess says and honestly you forgot she was there but you turn to look at her with a small smile.

“She’s my wife.” Miguel says looking up at her and Jess just looks very confused, previously thinking his wife was dead.

You quickly interrupt, moving Gabriella into his arms watching as she slowly wakes up.

“I’m sure she’s missed you.” You say, quietly watching as his eyes seem to shimmer looking at his daughter for the first time in years.

“I missed you two so much, you have no idea.” He says and you can hear the tears in his wavering voice. “I’m never letting you two go ever again.” He says wrapping his arms around the both of you.

AN: I hope you enjoyed reading!

I thought I'd try writing in 2nd person, which do you prefer, 1st person or 2nd person?

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pokemenlovingmen · 1 year

Note

Hey there! I didn't see who you write for on your page, so I'll include a couple of characters in case you don't write for one of them.

Can you do a GN or Male!Reader x either Arven or N, please? Just some cuddles and quality time, because I am pretty sure that's what most of us crave!

Thank you!

-First Anon

Ohhh yeah I know what you mean, cuddly fluff is always what I crave! Hopefully people who come for my content have similar interests, lmao. :) I went with a male reader because yknow… these are some guys I have a man crush on.

But yeah!! Cuddles with dudes I have fictional crushes on!! Pokemon gave me a great gift in the form of two fruity dudes with long hair and familial issues who are my age.

cw: child neglect (given who these are about…)

Cuddling Headcanons with a Male Reader for Arven and N

Arven

🥪 — Arven is hesitant with physical affection at first, just because he’s really not used to it. Like what do you mean… you want to put your arms around him because you love him?? Are you okay??

🥪 — Arven’s always been of the mind that acts of service are the only way to win the love of someone from previous experience, after all working so hard at school and home upkeep always earned praise from his mom/dad even if they weren’t there physically.

🥪 — Given you’re both guys, he’s also kinda shy about the relationship at first. Now, Paldea is one of the most queer-accepting regions you could be in, but it’s still, yknow. Not considered “normal”. People might stare, or say something. He’s no doubt in love with you but the potential negative attention scares the shit out of him.

🥪 — But when he does open up? God, he’s the biggest cuddlebug. He tried physical intimacy once and now he’s addicted.

🥪 — You can hold him, he can hold you, he doesn’t care, just being close is enough. If you’re shorter than him, he’ll usually rest his chin on your head and hum happily. If you’re taller than him, he’ll usually bury his face in your chest.

🥪 — Play with his hair and he’ll die a little bit. If you’re able to see his face, he’ll be wearing the biggest and dumbest smile the whole time. It’s best not to mix this with compliments because you WILL kill him.

🥪 — If you’re a weighted blanket enjoyer, you’ll never need one, because he can snap his fingers and suddenly there’s a massive weighted blanket with legs, a tail and a big furry face on top of you both.

🥪 — So as if you didn’t already have the pleasure of cuddling up to such a sweet guy, you also have his huge dog. Nights are never cold when you’re with these guys.

🥪 — He’s lowkey kind of a house husband of a boyfriend and he likes doing things like cooking meals for you, especially surprising you with breakfast, but that can be hard if you guys fell asleep cuddled up to each other. He doesn’t wanna climb out of this :(

🥪 — He’ll just kind of talk and ramble about nothing in particular while you guys snuggle if you let him. How his day was, how Mabosstiff is doing, compliments and things he loves about you, new recipes, funny stories, all that. Sort of comes to a point where even he doesn’t really know what he’s talking about, he’s just sort of talking to talk because he’s not too fond of dead silence.

🥪 — He’s yours, alright. Even if he was nervous about the relationship at first, Arven’s a happy, happy guy. And he’ll take any chance he gets to cuddle up to you.

💚 — His relationship with touch is complicated. That and the whole concept of cuddling and just having someone’s weight against him.

💚 — I feel like sleeping at night he switches regularly between “literally the thinnest blanket is a constricting prison” to “this weighted blanket isn’t enough I need to be buried alive”

💚 — So you can only cuddle with him on touch-positive days, but N’s fallen into a good rhythm with you and is very communicative of where his boundaries are at at any given time.

💚 — Pokemon have no concept of sexuality, and no social constructs that dedicate one sexuality as more “acceptable” than the other, so neither does he. Not that he’s the biggest PDA person on earth, but he’s not at all nervous about you two openly being together. Yeah we gay, keep scrolling

💚 — If he’s in the mood for contact while you guys are out and about it’ll usually be while you’re sitting, he likes leaning against you and resting his head on your shoulder. I would say that would make the perfect date, taking him on the ferris wheel on a touch-positive day, but who am I kidding, he’d be too fascinated to rest with you then.

💚 — As one could guess by looking at him, he’s LIGHT. You could pick him up and sling him over your shoulder like a sack of potatoes, provided you are tall enough to support all his lankiness.

💚 — You can play with his hair if you want, he’ll undo his ponytail for you, but I can’t imagine it’s actually all that soft. Probably pretty coarse and tangled to be honest, given his upbringing, tending to his hair was never a prerogative. If you can’t stand it being a Rattata’s nest, though, he’ll rather contentedly let you brush it—through he might twitch or squirm a bit, just because the feeling of the brush going through his hair is NOT something he’s used to.

💚 — He spooks you from time to time on his touch-negative days, because you can roll over in bed at any given time and find him just. Staring at you. It’s a stare of pure love, but his eyes do have a kind of naturally vacant look that’s startling at first. Baby you have the haunting thousand-yard-stare of a possessed victorian child

💚 — When he is in the mood for cuddles, he really likes them at night before bed. Specifically right after you shower, because he loves the smell of your shampoo still lingering on your hair. It’s just so completely… you. And he loves that.

💚 — Fall asleep cuddling him and he will become a limp corpse though. An actual ragdoll. Don’t toss and turn too hard or you’ll break him. He’s fragile. And by that I mean if you roll over onto one of his arms he will be stuck there.

💚 — He’ll also chatter on endlessly if you let him, but unlike the sandwich man above, he can be a little harder to understand because he both talks super fast and lays out his words the same as he does his thoughts, which are hard for people other than him to understand. But he knows this, and he’s just happy that you listen, even if you don’t get all of it. And he’s happy to be able to talk, to be heard, to just… say things and not have them carry the weight of the world when he does. Normal conversation is a beautiful treat to him. Oftentimes he’ll talk himself right to sleep, but between being in your arms and getting to speak his mind on all these simple things, he sleeps really easy when he does drift off.

#pokemon x reader #n x reader #n harmonia x reader #pokemon n x reader #arven x reader #arven x male reader #n x male reader #1️⃣

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berriblossom · 8 months

Text

Chapter 2| Pleasure over Power

Ayato x Male Reader

✄----------------------------------

For a long time, Ayato knew when not to get too involved or too committed to something. Relationships can and were temporary, friendships for the longest time were seen as politically motivated relationships and factors of his life and young career as the Yashiro Commissioner. Thoma and Ayaka were the only exceptions. However, he counted them more as family than as friends.

So when it comes to experiences and certain joys of life you can only have with a partner or friend is a foreign concept to him. Even in the department of lustful intimacy, Ayato would only in his dreams wish for such a fantasy to come true, nights where he'd have to resist the urge and irrefutable pleasure brimming in his abdomen, begging for him to just release all these inner desires. But did he?

Not until now.

"WhA~! Wait! S-Slow down a little [name]! Please!" You lapped his tip again, taking his cock fully into your mouth while slowly rubbing circles on his thighs. Ayato fully forgot himself and how much pride he had in himself.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It started when you asked how he ended up in Ritou's red-light town, with the stare you had at him, the way your eyes crinkled mischievously, and how he was flustered. he innocently didn't know anything you were talking about, nor had any idea what he wanted.

"I just needed...I just needed to relax.. that's all. Nothing I wanted is whatever this all is..."

Ayato didn't even touch on the topic of how you recognized him if you spread rumors of him being here? What could happen? What about his position? His sister and Thoma? What would they think of him, what would the other commissioners think of him? Before Ayato could put a pin into those thoughts and his fears for his reputation, you cut him off.

"Do you think you are the first Inazuman official to come here? I mean, the Kanjou Commission is right next door. So what is there to fear dear Yashiro Commissioner?"

You smiled, your voice dripped like the finest honey found deep in the forest of Mondstat, your little chuckle at his small stutters and surprised face. You explained further. "I have seen many people secretly enter that house, and seen many secretly leave it too. Going back to their wives, husbands, children, and clans. Therefore this isn't the first time I've seen such a high official here. though you do give off a different type of desire. A more unknown and hidden one, no? Mr. Yashiro?"

You tilted your head towards him, your thumb still rubbing against his knuckles, they were laced with small knicks and scars from sword practice and training. Ayato remained silent, but the tension between the two of you grew deeper and deeper, the small clasp of waves against the rocks and the peer in Ritou was a pulling reminder of the time and place. Time felt slower here, no wonder people can get lost in it. And Ayato hasn't even done anything yet, not anything exciting for how this place ran.

But he didn't run, rather he just flipped his hand over slowly and shifted his palm to touch and align with yours. His fingers slightly dancing against your palm and wrist, almost as if he was scared you would make a sudden move. But you didn't, rather you just relaxed your hand and let him be a little gentle. It was cute, to say the least.

You huffed out a laugh as you saw his blush growing on the tips of his ears as you hummed and leaned forward a little. You gave him the same little kisses as before, this time they had a little more emotion to them.

"How about I take the lead this time Mr. Yashiro, relax, that's why you're here anyways right? Let me handle everything~."

You stood up and helped him off the beach near the peer back into the house. Now when he walked inside the house, the lights were dimmed. The bartender was gone, and hardly anyone was there. You guided him down the hall into an empty room, it had simple ocean-like wallpaper, a fluffy futon, blankets, and also a sliding closet from what Ayato gathered. No matter what or where he was, he would take in his surroundings first, but now, his surroundings didn't matter.

You helped him down onto the futon, despite him being a slight bit taller than most men, Ayato curled up close to you when you leaned down beside him and pressed kisses against his neck and chin. His hands gripped the sleeve of your plain yukata. Noticing his anxious behavior you kissed his temple and whispered.

"Why don't I just help you relax fully? I won't ask for anything in return, but just for me, for tonight...relax a little, my dear Commissioner. Okay? So relax for me, love."

Ayato hearing the small endearment of "love" made his heart pang but in a good way. He had never had anyone care for him so gently, even being pampered all his life he never had someone take the time to make him feel as loved as possible. No less a stranger he met like an hour ago. The small details of reality settled and crept into his mind as the situation developed more. But he didn't want to think of that. He wasn't the Yashiro Commissioner right now, he wasn't the charming, but unavailable man right now that every woman wanted for herself. Right now he was your sweet precious thing you were helping relax. yes, he was in your care, that's all.

Your hands slowly crept down, giving encouraging circles against his hips, then to the meat of his thighs. You glanced back at Ayato to make sure he was fully aware of what was going on and that he was okay with it. He nodded and bit down on his lower lip. 'Cute' you thought and you gave another kiss against the corner of his lips. The smile you had, he could feel as your mouth traveled down his chest. Your wet kisses against his neck, the open mouth kisses against his chest. Your thumbs press against his nipples and give them slight stimulation.

The soft moans and coos Ayato let out as he melted under your touch were so melodic to your ears. His dreamy eyes glanced down at you, begging for a little more stimulation, his hands helping support him while he leaned back, he was even trying to keep his head up too. He wanted you to see him, and make eye contact, seeing you give him pleasure was such a rich spike of pleasure to him. You kissed down his stomach until you were between his thighs.

Completely laying back, Ayato let you rest his legs against your strong chest. From this point of view, Ayato could see your chest poking out of the small window in your yukata. Your cock was slightly outlined, in the cloth. Ayato felt his eyes continuously drift back to it, he could feel you slightly pressing into him, messing with him. But as you reminded him and teased him.

"Right now isn't about me remember Mr. Yashiro? I just want to help you relax." You gave a small bite to his thigh, that was going to bruise a little later. You missed the small mark, kissing down his thigh you reached the center. Pushing his silk-like cloth away from his mid-section, you kissed the outline of his cock, he was already hard. It was so entertaining to see him jerk at the simple movements. How his voice was wavering from trying to maintain his voice to trying to beg you to do more, please touch him a little more.

Frankly, you were surprised he didn't cum already, he was dripping in precum. Evenly soaking the cloth trapping his cock, you slipped him out of it. His cock slapped against his abdomen with a small "smack" sound. The exposed air to his cock head sends chills down Ayato's spine.

You kissed his tip, pressing it flat on your tongue. Ayato moaned and gripped the bedding so hard, that his knuckles were turning white from the tension, and his flustered expression had changed to pure lust and need. He needed you to touch him, please just let him experience this. He had been waiting so long and patiently. Just please.

Kamisato Ayato was taught never to beg from anyone or for anything. He should demand what he wants or ask in a polite but firm tone. However with how much control over the situation you had over him, over his body. "Please...[Name]...please just please more...please just...touch me more...let me..please..." His soft whimpers and pleas were so quiet it was almost as if a ghost said them. But you heard them, you smiled against his thigh.

"The cute commissioner begging for his release? I guess as his lover for tonight I can't go against his will can I?" You kissed along his shaft pressing your tongue against his tips, rolling your tongue around his tip while you slowly pump the rest of his cock.

Ayato bucked into your mouth a little, moving his hand to hold your head, not gripping your hair, but just gently holding the side of your head. It was so cute how he didn't want to make you choke or make you uncomfortable. Such a gentleman you thought.

But even gentleman crumble, you sped up your pace a little, bobbing your head and pumping his shaft and a little faster. You pulled back a little, moving your hands to his thighs and just taking him fully in your mouth and throat. The warmth and tightness of your throat made Ayato cry out in pleasure., he pressed his hand against your head, trying to gently as he remembered to push it down to push his cock deeper in your throat.

"WhA~! Wait! S-Slow down a little [name]! Please!" You swirled your tongue around his tip again, taking his cock fully into your mouth while slowly rubbing circles on his thighs. Ayato fully forgot himself and how much pride he had in himself. He was so close, so fucking close that you could see how badly he wanted this. Normally you'd tease someone when they were at this point, but cute Yashiro Commissioneer needed his relaxation so you let it happen this one time.

Pushing him deeper into your throat, your throat contracting and fighting around his size, which wasn't just above average to say. You started caressing his balls a little to help the climax come a little closer, Ayato was at this point fucking your throat, chasing his high. It felt so good, so mind-numbing it was unbelievable.

Finally, he let out a loud cry and leaned forward, pressing you against his abdomen and cumming down your throat. You gagged against his sudden movement but held onto his thighs to ground yourself. You exhaled through your nose as you swallowed all his cum, groaning against him as how much of him flooded into your senses. Ayato feeling the vibrations of your throat from your voice sent his aftershocks into overstimulations. His body jerked when you pulled off of him and gave his tip a small kiss. Ayato fell back into the bedding, his chest heaving. You rubbed his thigh, kissing his temple.

"You did so well, do you feel much more relaxed now Mr. Yashiro? Hmm, tell me, sweetheart?" Ayato leaned into your touch, he could still hear the waves crash against the shore outside the window.

"Yes....I feel...much more relaxed..."

Tags: @kiiyoooo , @cassidycampfire , @avatsufaust

Sorry for the late update! I had college work and moving things! Thanks for reading this chapter!

#xoxokuki💜#xokuki blog #kuki's writing #xokuki writes #xoxo💜#ayato smut #ayato x male reader #ayato x you #kamisato ayato #ayato x reader #genshin impact x reader #genshin smut #genshin impact ayato #genshin impact #this is so late my bad everyone

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screemnch · 4 months

Text

Heterotopias, Pathologic, and what they have in common.

In the introductions of these I tend to put completely unrelated life anecdotes, because this isn't an academic paper. With that being said - I do hope to put together the next instalment of the bilingual madness project that I've started, but not right now. I'm in the part of my life where I'm majoring in a subject and a few months of study have granted me the delusion that I actually know things, and I'm taking that and running with it. This little unhinged essay will include the following:

A brief recap of who Foucault is (really brief. Just for the context)

A little less brief recap of his concept of the "heterotopia", an explanation of some necessary concepts and essays on the subject

The examination of heterotopias in game - how they exist within the fictional town on Gorkhon and what that means

Finally, a pretentious talk about video games and specifically Pathologic as a heterotopia, where I might go completely off the rails and lose all my trains of thought at once.

So let's get started.

Who is Michel Foucault?

Michel Foucault (1926-1984) was a French philosopher, critic, activist and damn near everything. There are few topics in my current major where his name doesn't come up. He's had a say in theories of language, gender, sexuality, identity, space, politics, power and so on and so forth. There have also been multitudes of people criticising his ideas, and not without good reason. In this discussion I'm not putting this dude on a pedestal and I don't encourage anyone to base their whole understanding of philosophy on one French guy's opinion. That being said, let's go look at some of his ideas in terms of language and space.

What is a "heterotopia"?

Wikipedia kindly tells me that the word was first used in the preface of an essay called "the Order of Things". In the preface, Foucault compared it directly to the concept of a utopia (which is where the alarm bells go off for any and all pathologic fans). This was preceded by an important discussion of language in terms of relations - the idea that many concepts and things are described and perceived through the lens of comparison and juxtaposition. Think about how one would perceive light by comparing it to darkness. In Foucault's opinion, these relations make up a grid that shapes our perception. These relations are, by definition, also mutually exclusive. That which is a dog cannot also be a cat. That which the language defines as close cannot be far.

Which is why, immediately after that, Foucault says "lol, syke" there ARE things that can encompass these contradictory sites within themselves; a fantastical conceptual instance in which something like that is possible - he calls those things "utopias". In the preface he even calls the road to such a utopia "chimerical". The more common view of a utopia is "a perfect place with no flaws". But in Foucault's writing, utopias are something that rises above our perception of relations and embodies multiple contradictory things at once - which is what makes it perfect. Most importantly, however - utopias have no physical space. They cannot. Our language doesn't allow for something that exists outside of comparisons, especially not when it physically manifests in our world.

This is why, for example, in pathologic, Aglaya Lilich so vehemently insists that the Polyhedron cannot stand. She calls it a utopia, and those things cannot exist, must not exist. They cannot take up physical space. Which is when our good friend Foucault comes back for a surprise round.

See, we were lead to believe that utopias cannot exist, and it's meant to be a comfort - there isn't anything in our perception of the world that shatters our grid of comparisons and juxtapositions and that's wonderful. But we were, all of us, deceived. And we should be scared, because, to quote him directly - "Heterotopias are disturbing, probably because they secretly undermine language, because they make it impossible to name this and that, because they shatter or tangle common names, because they destroy 'syntax' in advance, and not only the syntax with which we construct sentences but also that less apparent syntax which causes words and things (next to and also opposite of one another) to 'hold together'" (this is still from the preface, yeah). In saying this he does not make clear what exactly a heterotopia is, which is why we'll turn to his other works. Namely "Heterotopias" (the introduction to which, written by Anthony Vidler helped me a ton in understanding what the hell this overly verbose dude is talking about) and its later iteration called "Of Other Spaces." I think those were both originally speeches, but I've found them transcribed, and I'm more focused on their meaning anyway. Those two texts are almost the exact same thing, with a few select differences, which aren't exactly relevant.

We get our proper explanation in these essays that I'll sum up to my best ability. A heterotopia is something that takes up physical space, yet has properties similar to a utopia. A physical space that embodies contradictory qualities. One of his early examples of something that is a heterotopia (but also a utopia at the same time, go figure) is the mirror; the false reality in which you are portrayed in a physical space where you are not, because you are quite clearly not standing in front of yourself, makes it a utopia. Yet the fact that by existing it creates a space in which you are technically standing in front of yourself makes it a heterotopia. He also points out a children's playground as a heterotopia. In "Heterotopias" the essay he likens it to children playing on their parents bed, but we could compare it to, say... A sandbox. Children playing in a sandbox is a heterotopia. The sandbox is a physical space, and yet it's also an unreal "other" space that exists in the children's perception. This space, say, a town, is both existent and non-existent. Contradictory.

Foucault goes to say more about the kinds of heterotopias that can exist, and as he mentions them, it becomes clear as to why architects took to the concept so readily. Many of these heterotopias are not just physical spaces, but buildings - theatres, museums, prisons, etc. There are other types of heterotopias - cemeteries, or "heterotopias of festival", but that's beside the point. A prominent example Foucault brings up is the brothel (a place both public and private at the same time) but he states the "perfect" heterotopia to be the boat/ship. Seriously, he calls them the "greatest reservoir for our imaginations" ("Heterotopias") and waxes poetic about how if we didn't have boats we'd be deprived of dreams. But hey, I'm here talking about a video game, who am I to judge.

Architecture, Space, and the Town on Gorkhon

Good old Wikipedia defines heterotopias as spaces that are somehow "other." Which is a good explanation for people who already know what a heterotopia is. As I've explained above, it's a little bit more complicated than that. However when I first heard the definition, my brain went "That's the Polyhedron! That's the stupid tower from that one game I'm obsessed with!" And indeed, it'd be easy to look at Wikipedia's definition of a heterotopia and compare it to the Polyhedron - it's most definitely "other." Even by what we've established here - it's a utopian contradiction that exists in physical space. So is Aglaya Lilich wrong for calling it a "utopia"? Is it actually a "heterotopia"? Would that change anything at all about the events of the game?

Real answer is: I dunno. Out of context of the game's story, it very much would count as a heterotopia (if we treat it as something existing within a real space, not in game space). It would be an architectural wonder, but it would also be a physical space that encompasses multiple things at once. It's made of paper and mirrors at the same time. It's precarious and safe at the same time. You could even bring in a specific type of heterotopia it could be - namely a "crisis heterotopia" (as outlined by Foucault in both "Heterotopias" and "Of other spaces") - a kind that is supposedly phasing out of existence. A place where people go when they are in a state of crisis. This is where debate would no doubt arise, because there are a bunch of types of heterotopias it could be (heterotopia of deviation, for example) and I love that. It's contradictory. It cannot be juxtaposed to other types of heterotopias. It shatters the liguistic definitions we cling to. Meta as fuck and I love that for her.

But also, raining on the parade of "the Polyhedron is totes a heterotopia, y'all" is the existence of context within and without the game. The town on Gorkhon is not a real space, and isn't in a real time. And that is both as a "game space" (a game played by kids in a sandbox) and as a ""game space"" (a game played by us, the players). In this way, concepts can manifest themselves without manifesting, things can exist without existing. The Polyhedron only takes up physical space within the eyes of the dolls, but to the kids it is no more real than the town itself. Within the laws of the game - the Polyhedron never became a heterotopia. It's a concept that the children spoke into existence, a contradictory thing, that also remains within a fantastical "game space". It's only rational that Aglaya would call it a utopia - her meta awareness allows her to see the tower, the whole town, for what it is. And as a utopia, it should not have a physical manifestation within the world that Aglaya can perceive. She is still just a doll, after all, and the world she perceives is physical to her, even if she knows it's just "game space".

I'm not posing either one of these ideas as "the correct one". You can choose to believe that the Polyhedron is a heterotopia, or you can believe that it's a utopia because it's all a game. You can even say that all of this is bs, and all the developers at IPL were trying to say is that perfection is impossible. But I'm gonna keep playing around and talk about another fun thing: the heterotopias are everywhere.

Go back to treating the town on Gorkhon as a physical space again. You may recall in the examples of heterotopias I cited some buildings and spaces that might sounds particularly interesting. A theatre. A cemetery. There's also the idea that heterotopias have a unique relationship with time, in terms of either constantly accumulating time (museums) or emphasising its transience (fairgrounds). This temporal quality may remind you of the Catherdal in marble nest, where it warps time and changes the way it's perceived. In all honesty, when considering heterotopias besides the Polyhedron, my first thought went to the Abbatoir - it's a place where only select few are allowed, where a collective exists both privately and within the eye of society (which is also themselves), that accumulates time from way back in the history of the town. In short, just like the real world, the town on Gorkhon is full of heterotopias. And it's not surprising - Foucault's first principle of heterotopias established in both of the aforementioned essays is that "there is probably not a single culture in the world that fails to constitute heterotopias". Similarly, no longer thinking of the town on Gorkhon as a physical space, the town becomes a heterotopia as well. That is - it's a town within a sandbox during some kids' playtime. Delightfully meta. Let's all get delightfully meta, shall we?

Are video games heterotopias?

I was unable to find if Foucault has ever said anything about video games throughout his life. Technically he has existed at the same as them, but maybe at this point he had lost interest in talking about these spaces. There are multiple articles out there talking about games and Foucault's theories, and the sole reason why I haven't read them for this essay is because I didn't want to go down a goddamn rabbit hole and waste the next 8 hours reading about... Idk, tadpoles or smth. Let's work from the start, shall we?

Foucault clearly states that children playing pretend in a physical space is heterotopic. The place where they play becomes a heterotopia. Jumping off of that we can assume that things such as LARP (which takes place in a select location) is also a heterotopia, with an addition of some rules that the players adhere to. This leads us to considering things such as live dnd sessions heterotopic as well - players are gathered around a table. Their combat map, the physical space the DM uses to create the imagined space - all becomes a heterotopia (yes I made it about dnd, I'm a nerd of many talents). Once we take a step further, towards things like online dnd sessions and eventually video games - an important question emerges: can digital space house heterotopias? I'm sure Foucault would have considered cyberspace itself a heterotopia, if I've understood him correctly so far (and if I haven't... That sucks, cuz we're almost at the end of the essay). Can a heterotopia exist within another heterotopia? Would it be possible to peel away a layer by claiming that the digital screen - our window to the cyberspace, to the "game space" - constitutes as physical space? Is a video game, in that case, a heterotopia as well? And does that mean that by playing Pathologic we are experiencing a heterotopia, within a heterotopia, within a heterotopia? Are you tired of the "h" word yet?

Truth is, once again: I dunno. I like to believe that it is, cuz it allows me to think of Pathologic as something even cooler than I originally thought. Something even more meta. It's interesting thinking about how something that came from linguistics then went into architecture and eventually came to media entertainment. I also really like the implications that come with the significance of this concept in regards to the architect characters present within Pathologic. I wonder if they knew (given how patho is set in a dubious time, so it'd be difficult to establish if them knowing about Foucault's theories would even be possible). In part I just also felt fascinated by many people linking Pathologic to concepts within theatre (like Codex Entry, or that one post on here about Edward Gordon Craig by tumblr user erriga) and got really excited about bringing something similar to the table. I hope it sparks some discussion and brings forth some ideas from other passionate fans. Anyways.

Go read the actual stuff:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/43202545

https://www.jstor.org/stable/464648

(sorry about the links if they don't work. I'm not technologically advanced enough to figure out if smth is wrong before I post it)

#pathologic #ramblings #мор утопия #philosophy #I was supposed to pace myself #But instead I just wrote this whole thing in one sitting

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