#Lets also acknowledge wei wuxian feelings

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

The fascination to make the likes of Shen Jiu, Jiang Cheng, and Mu Qing everything they aren't while claiming to understand everything about their character will forever amaze me. No, you don't actually understand them as they are, especially because what's wanted is your own sense of redemption and what they deserve as way of a reward for their realizations.

Yet their acceptance of their horrid behaviors is their redemption. The bare minimum of acknowledging the cruelty they inflicted and put on to others as well is it. You do not get rewarded, nor should expect to be, for that realization that you have deliberately let others be hurt because of your own jealousy and hate. Realizing is just one part of betterment. The only one that does actively try to make amends and shows some sort of understanding to maintain an actual semblance of friendship that is now with boundaries and understanding of expectations from that, is Mu Qing. He is the only one that reaches out with his apologies to say he wants Xie Lian as a friend despite his jealousy and behavior of the past.

Shen Jiu and Jiang Cheng have no such regrets since their cynicism and self-absorption stays the principal feeling of their regrets. It is not for the sympathy and regret for what others did for them that they're upset, it's the way they know they have no right to disregard the selflessness that Wei Wuxian and Yue Qingyuan showed for them. The reality of having squandered and belittled that because of their own hate, self grandeur, and egoism convinced them it was appropriate and reasonable. Only one amongst these three did have the maturity to admit and willingly want to place the effort into maintaining the friendship he still wanted when saying he was actively wrong and jealous of who Xie Lian was. Shen Jiu still was forever bitter about Yue Qingyuan while also not wanting to think that perhaps Yue Qingyuan was suffering as well. Jiang Cheng still spoke in terms of debts and repayment as if Wei Wuxian was settling to buy off his own life to freedom. They did not want to actively change because they didn't see anything wrong in their own selves.

That is where at least Mu Qing has the opening to do and be better, to be a friend finally to Xie Lian. Redemption isn't meant to be satisfying for anyone but the one who seeks it in their own way. Sometimes it's also disappointing as an outside party that they don't want to change for the better with that realization of identity and still are hateful to the core.

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #svsss #scum villian self saving system #tgcf #tian guan ci fu #heaven official's blessing #jiang cheng #shen jiu #mu qing

[mxtxfanatic]

Alright mxtx fandoms, let’s discuss class distinctions. I see a lot of people who discuss the theme of classism in mxtx works by collapsing all class groups into two categories: the ultra rich upper class who make all the rules and the poverty-stricken lower class who are oppressed by them. However, this is rarely the case in her books. The prime examples I can think of are in tgcf and mdzs.

In mdzs, a lot of people claim that Wei Wuxian and Jin Guangyao come from “similar backgrounds,” but this is most definitely not the case. Yes, Jin Guangyao went unclaimed by his father until later into his adulthood after his mother’s death, but Meng Yao did not grow up poor. Meng Shi was a famed courtesan with high-profile clients before she had her son, and having Meng Yao was a plan for her to be made into a mistress or second wife (which ultimately failed). Sisi was almost turned into a second wife, which is what caused her to be attacked and ruined her looks. Sex workers operated in a weird social space in ancient history where they existed as an industry, but class distinctions between different kinds of sex work still existed/exists and Meng Shi was definitely not on the low end of the scale. Even if Jin Guangyao had never been acknowledged by his father, he still found an honest job as a bookkeeper before meeting Lan Xichen. Meanwhile, Wei Wuxian was a street orphan with no family, money, status, who barely remembered his name, and definitely no benefit of an education due to how young he was orphaned, who was eventually taken in as the companion servant to a local lord-equivalent’s son. Neither of these characters started off as gentry, but they were not of the same class growing up.

In tgcf, Mu Qing is touted as a “poor”/working-class character by a large portion of the fandom, but… there’s no real evidence that he is? I mean, I have no doubt that, given the circumstances of his father’s death and his mother’s eventual disability, he was in poverty at some point, and this seems to be corroborated within the narrative by the fact that he is well-known and loved by the street orphans in the city. However, you cannot tell me that the personal servant to the crown (and only) prince to an entire kingdom is surviving off poverty wages. You’d be better-served making an argument to me about Anne Boleyn being an accurate historical representation of English serfs. Hong Hong’er, actual child living in poverty, is notably set apart from Mu Qing: from his fraying, patched clothes to his dirty hands to Mu Qing’s unwillingness to touch him… Mu Qing is set apart from the upper crust because 1) he is not of nobility but, more importantly, 2) his father was a criminal publicly executed for treason. And #2 is particularly damning for Mu Qing’s status amongst the nobility because Feng Xin, also not from a noble family, is (conditionally) accepted amongst the same elite snobs in a way Mu Qing is not (which makes sense since why would a noble like the son of a man who may have conspired against their rule?). Interesting to note, though, that the only time Mu Qing is unquestionably included in the array of the elite is when Hong Hong’er is being ostracized by the same group (minus Xie Lian). So while Hua Cheng and Mu Qing both had childhoods outside the nobility, Mu Qing was not anywhere near the level of poverty Hua Cheng had to live through.

I feel like svsss escapes this sort of broad-stroke application of class status to characters because most characters really do either fall into one of the two groups or we are not given background information on them at all. We know that Shen Jiu and Yue Qingyuan were child slaves, with the former being bought by a cruel master and the latter being able to escape and join a sect. We know that Luo Binghe, while not a child slave, was a child servant working with his adoptive mother under cruel masters who were directly the cause of his mother’s death. Slight distinction, but functionally not any different in their effects and outcomes. Shen Yuan is said to come from a wealthy family in his world, and Liu Qingge and Liu Mingyan do, as well. All the major demon characters are nobility. The only character we see who does not fit into this distinct divide is Shang Qinghua, but his background only becomes fleshed-out in the extras. Not to say that classism isn’t also a theme, but it’s function is used differently here than in the other two novels (especially since in svsss, we are working with parallels feeding into cycles of abuse and how to break said cycles rather than recreating them into infinity).

So with all this said, I think it may actually help discussions of the classism theme within these different mxtx fandoms to acknowledge and take into account the nuances within the class positions that these characters occupy. Why is it that the functionally middle-class characters, after gaining a crumb of acceptance from the elites, tend to turn against those lower on the rung? How do characters of the same background and class status interact with others of differing status, and what makes their reactions different from each other despite being raised under similar conditions? What is mxtx trying to say about class as a social or even moral divider by adding all these class nuances or (with svsss) lack thereof into her various narratives?

#mdzs #svsss #tgcf #human metas mxtx #just thinking out loud #i may have more to say after I officially finish tgcf again #but this is where I’m at

[admirableadmiranda]

Sometimes it feels like the main message that a lot of people miss in MDZS in their leaps to justify one character’s hatred for another or attempting to remove them from the world because they will never be at peace until that person is completely eradicated, is that it poses a question of “how much blood does it take to satisfy the anger? How much death is necessary to live? How much pain that you want to inflict is truly equal to what you have suffered? Where is the line between justice, vengeance and murder?”

MDZS does not have our modern sensibilities and laws for such a thing, and it’s on purpose. It’s set in a time where there is no emperor or god onscreen to merit out justice or retribution, it’s all in the hands of the mortals. They get to decide how much is enough.

And the thing that so many people miss is that for almost every character (and I will include Wei Wuxian in this with a caveat) go too far at some point. Sure, the desire to kill your brother’s killer is understandable. But what about the people who you harm in that path? Nie Huaisang does end up taking down Jin Guangyao, but the cost is that Qin Su also dies, destroyed even before her death by the reality of what the men around her will stoop to do out of pride and anger, what they will use her for in the process.

Why do I stand so firmly against the people who say that Jin Guangyao and Jiang Cheng had their reasons, that they were right to go as far as they did? Because the text itself does take the time to show us what is reasonable in that world and what is greedy, wrathful, unjustified.

Jiang Cheng has every right to hate the men who invaded his home and killed his family. In the natures of their society it is not wrong for him to step him and take revenge against them. The supervisory camps in Yunmeng were built on the blood of his people. I have no qualm with him removing them from his land, even though it ends in their deaths.

But that does not mean that his righteous war should extend to all who bear the Wen name and that is where the gap comes in. Wen Chao had him tortured and his golden core crushed. By the rules of that world as extolled by Xiao Xingchen when talking to Xue Yang, it is reasonable to take back what was done to him in blood there.

But Wen Ning is not Wen Chao. Wen Ning risked his life, his sister’s life and ultimately ended up contributing to Wen Ruohan’s campaign toppling and ending in dust because when he was offered the choice to either stick by his family or stick by his morals, he chose the former. The Wen’s attack on Lotus Pier was wrong. The lives they took were unjustified. Their actions were deplorable.

By standing up and protecting Jiang Cheng in the way he does, smuggling him back out of Lotus Pier and hiding him away from the Wen who would kill him, he is declaring that his own family is in the wrong, and instead makes a sacrifice that could have had him and his sister killed should Wen Ruohan ever find out about it.

Jiang Cheng knows this. This is where the right of hatred falls flat. This is where his righteous anger becomes a hunger for blood that will never be satiated.

Now I’m not saying that Jiang Cheng should hug and kiss Wen Ning for everything. There are limits to what humans can endure, even ones as good as Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji. But he refuses to ever acknowledge what he knows. He refuses to ever act in kind. He owes a debt and he knows it. And he instead not only refuses to pay it by not necessarily taking them into his lands, but even acknowledging that they did anything. He buries them with their family and his words. He lets his hatred overwhelm all else.

He was not powerless at the end of the war. Far from it, in fact! He had a sect that was still rebuilding its forces, but it had been three years since the start of the war so it can’t be tiny anymore, and he had Wei Wuxian with the Yin Hufu. The only two necromancers in the world, who are powerful enough to hold whole barriers on their own. This is the whole point of the display at Phoenix Mountain. Wei Wuxian is showing the other three great clans and all the smaller clans that it does not matter how many of them they have, Yunmeng Jiang has him and while they have him, they are untouchable. This is a known fact.

Jiang Cheng would have faced no long term retribution from doing anything. He could have simply let Wei Wuxian pull them out of the Jin indoctrination camp and take them through Yunmeng to somewhere else and after some grumbling and some pleading on Jin Guangshan’s part, nothing would have happened. Wei Wuxian is too strong and the other clans are too aware of that. No one was safer than Yunmeng Jiang at the end of the war.

That is why the Jin play off of his jealousy and anger and get him to throw aside Wei Wuxian. It is literally their only option.

This brings me to the other half of my discussion, which is where does the bloodshed end? What is enough spilled blood?

If Jiang Cheng hates Wei Wuxian enough to try to kill him, then this should be a vengeance that ends with Wei Wuxian’s death. Death ends all obligations. We owe no more money, we settle no more debts, we leave the shackles of the living in life and the dead move on as do the living.

So why then is it acceptable that Jiang Cheng spends the next thirteen years killing people that remind him of Wei Wuxian? That the moment that Wei Wuxian does return, his first action is to try and kill him again? That he tortures him multiple times and it is only Lan Wangji’s presence and Jin Ling’s quick thinking that save him on those occasions? By all rights including our modern ones, Wei Wuxian should be free and Jiang Cheng should have moved on in thirteen years. Thirteen years is long enough to raise a child almost to adulthood, but Jiang Cheng clings to a hatred that has had no outlet for that long and continues to try and demand Justice that he has already received.

Where is the line? When is enough? Why does the blood of innocents have to be paid too for the hunger of the mighty? Wen Ruohan subtly assassinated Nie Mingjue’s father, but Nie Mingjue decided that there was only to be death for anyone related to the Wen. They didn’t have to do anything, even if they tried to stop him it wouldn’t be enough. Only the death of every Wen would slake that hunger, and then in death when he is driven only by that hunger, only the death of every Jin. Including the ones who weren’t even old enough to hold a sword at the time he died. Jin Ling is as good as Jin Guangyao for Nie Mingjue to kill. All that matters is that he’s connected. All that matters is that there is another body to feed the never ending hate that fills him.

Xiao Xingchen says that for Xue Yang to take a finger or an arm from the man who harmed him as a child is reasonable. Even to kill him if that is truly the only way to end his hatred. But what is a finger to an entire family? “Because it is mine!” Declares Xue Yang and this is where the crux of it lies. “It is my hatred, it is my anger. It is my right to kill anyone because I am angry and I refuse to let it go.” This is the trait that Jiang Cheng, Jin Guangyao and Xue Yang all share. “I am angry and I am hurt so it is my right to do as I will and no one should take that away from me or I will hurt them too.”

This is why they are antagonists. This is why two of the three of them end up dead. This is why Jiang Cheng staying his hand in the temple and Wei Wuxian’s mercy towards him is the only reason that he survives the end. You can’t ask the world to feed your endless hatred. Eventually you will hurt the wrong person and by the very laws that you and the world have set, will come for you. There is no such thing as bloodshed without pain. There are people who will miss those who are gone. And not all of them will be as good as Lan Wangji. Not all of them will move forward in their lives and ignore you. Sometimes the oriole will stalk you in the shadows, waiting for the moment the praying mantis slips up. The wheel ever turns and those on the bottom eventually rise up.

Now as for Wei Wuxian, we see a different answer on him from the others and this is where his morals really come into play. Cause at first he does exact justice for those lost at Lotus Pier. Steps in which the narrative does not fully condemn him, but suggests lightly that it is the sort of thing that he does not linger in, as well as he himself looks back and decides that maybe he did go too far then. Maybe he did do too much in the name of anger and justice. Three months after the event he is willing to kill and torture Wen Zhuliu and Wen Chao. But three years later he looks at the members of the family that killed his and goes “I do not love you. But this is not right. You do not deserve this. I will not let you suffer this any longer even though your name is Wen.”

For Wei Wuxian, the line ends at the end of war, at the deaths of those who directly caused him the most pain. He does not necessarily forgive or absolve. But he does recognize that there is no sense in continuing the bloodshed or allowing others to continue it out of some misplaced sense of vengeance. He is offered a chance to stop the wheel and he tries. He tries so goddamn hard. He tries until it kills him and everyone else he protects because the anger of the rest is too wrapped up in their self righteousness to examine what is reasonable and what is the cost for what they do.

I do not exonerate the Lan here, but I do point out that they at least actually make an attempt to change things afterwards. We see it in the way that Lan Wangji continues to act in the world. We see it in the way that Lan Xichen stops and reconsiders what he knows of Wei Wuxian, and helps him when the wheel attempts to spin back to where it was before. Where the juniors go out hunting on their own to help people of all kinds. They find weird mysteries and they follow them, they are kind to all. It does not absolve what they have done in the past, it does not make them blameless.

But it is a start. And one that Jiang Cheng has not taken. If he had, we wouldn’t be having these debates and arguments about what is a reasonable enough amount of death and destruction that he can cause on account of his past.

This is where the line is.

Modaozushi asks the question of how much death is enough and concludes at the line “when you continue to court death to satisfy your anger, you will eventually find death standing at your door too.” It happens to Xue Yang, who after killing Song Lan and Xiao Xingchen and A-Qing and everyone in Yi City, finds A-Qing’s ghost leading those who can end his hurting of others for good. It happens to Jin Guangyao who assassinates and hurts so many people that Nie Huaisang finds allies in Mo Xuanyu, Sisi and Bicao, all of whom are willing to help him drag Jin Guangyao to the depths by the chains of his reputation.

Jiang Cheng is offered another chance. Leave Wei Wuxian alone and move forwards with his life. At the end of the book he accepts that chance. It is probably the last one he will get, but he accepts it. This is why he finishes out the book alive no matter how much blood he has on his hands. You can always change your actions until you are dead.

This is the question that Modaozushi posits and answers to all of us and to which I now offer to you when you consider the actions in story. What is enough? How much blood must be spilled before you are happy?

Why does it matter to you that those who are hurt are allowed to hurt without consequence? Where do you draw the line when all of those who caused you pain in the past are buried?

What is the price that you demand for your happiness? When is there enough blood on your hands to be happy?

When do you say “there has been enough death. I will stop this here and now because it is enough.”

Will you be the hero or the antagonist in someone else’s story?

#mdzs #wei wuxian #lan wangji #canon jiang cheng #jin guangyao #xue yang #discussion of antagonists #the cycles of vengeance #long post

[thatswhatsushesaid]

this watershed moment between nie mingjue and meng yao is from cql, obviously, but imo it highlights the fundamental conflict between these two characters in all versions of the canon:

i am once again re-reading the entirety of the empathy flashback chapters because once i start, i just can't stop! there's just too much important information overflowing from this sequence of events! and considering this is the only lens through which we are able to look back at jin guangyao's past as meng yao--and considering how much that lens hates him at this point in canon--so much of what is presented to us as objective fact has to be examined more critically.

so, it bears repeating: all of this is nie mingjue's resentment-addled fierce corpse's recollection of events at least fourteen years in the past, communicated to the reader through two additional filters--empathy, and wei wuxian himself.

Meng Yao had probably carefully worked out how to avoid the vital areas. With both caution and composure, he pulled the sword out of his stomach, producing a string of small, bloody splashes, and pressed the wound—this was all he did to treat it. Nie MingJue, on the other hand, still remained in the posture that he used when trying to help Meng Yao. Half-kneeling with his head raised, their eyes met.

i mean. sure, i guess? this is related to an ask currently hanging out in my inbox that i haven't been able to answer yet (there are so many asks), but i think we really ought to consider just what a life-threatening gamble this was regardless. also painful! it is painful to stab yourself, and then to mash your hand against an open wound to stop the bleeding! why would anyone choose to do something like this unless they felt they had no other choice?

Nie MingJue didn’t say anything. Meng Yao didn’t say anything either. He sheathed his sword, bowed toward Nie MingJue, and sprinted away without looking back.

i've read a few posts criticizing meng yao in this moment either implying or flat out stating that if he can bow and sprint away, he clearly couldn't have been that injured. leaving aside that nie mingjue is perfectly capable of recognizing a serious injury when he sees one, wei wuxian also sees the blood splashing onto meng yao's body and clothes as he withdraws the sword from himself. so, he's hurt. he has seriously injured himself. that he still forces himself to bow before fleeing does seem significant to me. what else could he possibly have said? what would nie mingjue have wanted to hear him say anyway?

He had just acknowledged his mistake and agreed to receiving his punishment before feigning suicide and setting up a trap. Now, he was already long gone. It was probably Nie MingJue’s first time seeing such a shameless person, especially one that had just been the trusted aide whom he promoted himself.

i could live the rest of my life in this sentence (exaggeration. but only slightly), there is so much going on here--first, that wei wuxian feels confident enough in his understanding and interpretation of nie mingjue via empathy to presume that this is nie mingjue's first exposure to such 'shameless' behaviour, because let's be real, how can he possibly know that? like leaving aside the fact that he is the older brother of the jianghu's most dedicated and shameless drama queen, he's been a sect leader for years at this point. beyond that, he is a sect leader during a time of war. mingjue-xiong has seen some shit, ok? i think it is specifically because this supposed shamelessness comes from someone that he himself trusted and promoted, as wei wuxian next points out, that he is so furious.

this part is key, for me, because it emphasizes not the shamelessness (is it tho?) of meng yao's trickery, but that such trickery could be carried out by someone that nie mingjue himself had invested with such trust. he doesn't just feel betrayed by meng yao, though of course that is part of it. his pride has been injured. which makes sense, given the next part of the text:

For this, he flew into a terrible rage, being especially fierce during the Wen Sect’s battles. Even when Lan XiChen had the time to assist Langya, a few days later, his anger hadn’t died down one bit. As soon as he came, Lan XiChen laughed, “MingJue-xiong, what a temper you seem to be in. Where is Meng Yao? Why does he not come and douse your flames?”

i'm not sure i actually want to know what a 'terrible rage' from nie mingjue looks like given what we already know about his brutality on the battlefield. like... this is after he has decapitated wen ruohan's son, wen xu, and made a brutal display of his head and remains to send a message to qishan. meng yao's betrayal has triggered truly unprecedented levels of rage and fury from nie mingjue, something that was already escalating due to his focused cultivation with the sabre, but it results in a man who absolutely cannot handle hearing meng yao's name.

Nie MingJue, “Don’t mention such a person!”

see? (mingjue-xiong don't snap at lan xichen like that 🥺)

Without any exaggeration, he told Lan XiChen of how Meng Yao killed and planned to blame someone else, then feigned death and ran away. After he heard the story, Lan XiChen was also surprised, “How could this be? Maybe there was a misunderstanding?”

Nie MingJue, “I caught him right on the spot. What misunderstandings could there be?”

Lan XiChen thought for a moment, “Judging from his words, the person whom he killed had definitely done wrong. However, he should not have taken his life either. We are in harsh times, so it is quite difficult to determine who was at fault. I wonder where he is now.”

Nie MingJue spoke in a harsh tone, “He should hope that I don’t catch him. If I do, I’ll offer him as sacrifice to my saber!”

(where's a good theresalottounpackhere.gif when you need one)

first: "without any exaggeration" is doing quite a lot of narrative work! even if we accept that what nie mingjue recounts to lan xichen broadly conforms to what wei wuxian witnessed via empathy, what wei wuxian witnessed in the first place was still nie mingjue's recollection of the events as they transpired. wei wuxian did not witness these events himself with his own eyes. sure, i trust that nie mingjue is telling the truth when he shares this information with lan xichen, but he cannot be an objective source of information for wei wuxian--and i think it is significant that wei wuxian doesn't clock this.

second: i think this is why there is an understandable impulse to respond to lan xichen's circumspection with 'hey what the fuck??' when he says 'maybe there was a misunderstanding.' because we are right in the moment alongside wei wuxian, who does not recognize his own bias. and so we end up like, what do you mean, lan xichen! nie mingjue caught meng yao red-handed! wei wuxian-via-empathy told us so! how could we misunderstand any of this when wei wuxian confirmed for us that nie mingjue did not exaggerate any of his explanation?

but lan xichen's thoughtfulness and his instinct to pause, to seek out additional clarification and understanding, are perfectly rational responses given the circumstances, and ideally what he says is something any equally rational person would say in his position. two people he has invested with a great deal of his trust and esteem are at significantly crossed purposes, and he only has one half of the story. lan xichen obviously trusts that nie mingjue is telling him the truth as he recalls it; he just understands, as wei wuxian clearly cannot, that his understanding of this situation is incomplete until he hears the other half of the story from meng yao himself.

However, as though his words turned into a prophecy, during the next few years, it was almost as if Meng Yao had suddenly disappeared, as if he had sunk like a rock into the ocean. No trace of him was left.

Now, Nie MingJue loathed him in the same manner that he had once valued him. Whenever the name was mentioned, he put on an angered face, expressing things hard to explain in speech. When he was certain that no information could be found, he refused to discuss Meng Yao with another person ever again.

i'll wrap this post up shortly because i've already written much more than i initially intended, but i just want to highlight that literal years pass between their confrontation on the langya front and their bloody reunion in nightless city. that is a long time for nie mingjue to spend "loathing [Meng Yao] in the same manner that he had once valued him"--plenty of time for resentment brought on by his sabre cultivation technique to thoroughly sink its claws into his judgment, and his wounded pride.

#mdzs meta #jin guangyao #meng yao #nie mingjue #something i did not touch on in this post but that i really wanted to #is that while i don't disagree that nmj's judgment has been rattled #i don't think he himself wants to acknowledge that it has been rattled #i don't think he has the psychological bandwidth to handle doubting himself and what that doubt could mean for the war and for his sect #and so for me that rage and fury that follows the langya front encounter is a direct response to that doubt #in addition to having his pride injured #injured pride + doubting his judgment = angry murder sabre getting angrier and murder-y...er

[least-carpet]

You know, I was thinking about something you wrote under one of my post about wwx having different feelings about the yunmeng sibs after his return, which is actually correct in the novel imo! But not for cql. Cql!wwx really seems to be missing yunmeng jiang, he's kinder in his thoughts Imo, less bitter. Which is kinda of fascinating because cql!jc is almost exactly like novel!jc in what he says/seems to be feeling. Like, Cql!wwx is seen to be worried about jc's safety during burial mounds 2.0, in a way novel!wwx isn't about novel!jc lmao. I don't have a point lol, just wanted to let you know that imo cql!wwx is quite different and thanks to this, there is much more room for a reconciliation than in the novel lol.

While in the donghua there isn't room for a reconciliation because the donghua is jiang family anti lol.

Whoops, sorry this took me a minute—I started answering it, saved it, and lost it in my enormous hoard of drafts.

I have not watched the donghua but everything I've heard about it is kind of insane, so I believe it!

I vaguely remember leaving that comment and I think what I meant was that Wei Wuxian has different feelings for Jiang Yanli and Jiang Cheng after he comes back—like he thinks pretty negative thoughts about Jiang Cheng, but not Jiang Yanli. On one hand, you can see how their interactions in the present day are pretty contentious and might lead Wei Wuxian to think badly of Jiang Cheng. On the other hand, Jiang Cheng is very reasonably angry about the deaths of his sister and brother-in-law and how that made his beloved nephew grow up an orphan, and Jiang Yanli might have been mad too, if she had survived! It's not unreasonable for both of them to be upset! But it's like Wei Wuxian can't even begin to start thinking about that post-resurrection. I think that's going to take him some time.

I do think novel!Wei Wuxian is deeply resentful of Jiang Cheng, and that really colours what he tells us about Jiang Cheng. I also think his feelings might change if he got some time to actually process any of them, but that would also require him to acknowledge the negative ones which... might take a minute! From what I've seen of CQL, Wei Wuxian does seem less resentful, at least, which might make reconciliation a little easier.

#asks #wei wuxian #jiang cheng #jiang yanli #mdzs + #least-carpet thoughts #yunmeng trio #yunmeng shuangjie

[frogizz]

The Untamed Mind Dump (Spoilers duh)

(I have yet to read the novel for MDZS, and I am on Episode 47 of The Untamed so I want to do another mind dump like last time)

Jin Guangyao, I've been suspicious of him ever since I saw that face of his (I am not calling the actor ugly or anything like that, I can acknowledge its the acting that made him look suscpious not his actual face.) But I didn't excpect for him to be that sick of a human being.

Wei Wuxian being the scapegoat all over again

Damn these people love to gossip

I forgot about Wei Wuxian offering his Golden Core to Jiang Cheng

I miss Jiang Yanli bro

I also miss Wen Qing

At least I have Wen Ning, he is so awesome

I have the firm belief that while Wen Ning and Wei Wuxian are responsible for the death of Jin Zixuan, I know damn well Jiang Yanli's blood is not on Wei Wuxian's hands. Heck, I kind of think even though Wei Wuxian was the cause of Jin Zixuan's death, that that situation was obviously curated from the start, there was no intention to kill anyone that day because Wei Wuxian was doing this all in self defense. (Still sad that Jin Zixuan had to be a casualty).

I legit don't remember Su She before episode 45

The way I had to pause, sit up, stand up, walk around when that lady revealed Jin Guangyao tortured his father like that and what he did to Qin Su??? OH MY GOOOODDDDDDDD

Lan Wanji, you're the best supporter and best friend ever (I know in the novel he's Wei Wuxian's lover but in The Untamed their relationship is still amazing as best friends).

Wei Wuxian is such a great leader and protected those teens well (most of them are teens right? they all seemed kinda young)

I feel so bad for Jin Ling, all of his family's dirty laundry being aired out from both sides because his (defected) martial uncle is infamous for doing dirty tricks and is the supposed one who killed his parents, his maternal uncle being really hard on him, his paternal uncle being absolute scum and him doing things worse than what Wei Wuxian was ever accused for, and then to top it all off, he is constantly bullied.

To add to that, Jin Ling's outbursts are to be expected, he's just like his maternal uncle, really emotional. Jiang Cheng has had his outbursts of anger and aggressiveness (verbal and/or physical) and this could be the only way Jin Ling knows how to express himself.

At first I thought Jin Ling was an arrogant and stupid spoiled brat but I just want to hug this poor kid, the trauma of not having his parents and knowing that they died brutal deaths, the bullying, just everything. Just let him have a nice and warm blanket while snuggling with Fairy for once, please?

Speaking of Fairy, can people stop threatening the dog please? Like, they're such a good boy/girl (Netflix subtitles swapped them at somepoint from he to she and then it so I have no idea).

I WAS CRYING WHEN LAN SIZHUI STARTED TO REMEMBER HIS PAST AND THEN WEN NING WAS TRYING TO CATCH UP WITH HIM BRUH I WAS UGLY CRYING, SOBBING, THEY'RE FAMILY, THEY DESERVE TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER, THE LAST OF THE WEN FAMILY AAAA

I am such a sucker for reunited families, families with close bonds, found families, I don't know why, but it strikes me in the heart in such a painful and joyful way.

Zewu Jun, I always have mad respect for this man and I understand how he needs to make his own judgement and not only trust the words of others, I just can't blame him for that. But man was I afraid that he betrayed everyone by actually being 100% on Jin Guangyao's side knowing everything he did in episode 46, but he looked as confused and weirded out as ever so thankfully he isn't on his side anymore, I love this dude, I'm his biggest supporter.

I'll make each of these things their own post because I have so much more I want to say.

#the untamed #mxtx novels #wei wuxian #jin ling #jiang cheng #wen qing #wen ning #lan wangji #wen yuan #lan sizhui #mdzs #the untamed mdzs #jin guangyao #qin su #su she #meng yao #zewu jun #lan xichen

[wangxianficrecs]

simple love | 簡單愛 by auberjing

simple love | 簡單愛

by auberjing

E, 19k, Wangxian

Summary: “Of course! Zhan, fourth tone, water radical.” Wei Ying traces the correct character before them. His gaze is expansive. Lan Zhan feels it burning through him: knowing, accepting, acknowledging. He's glowing from within, all his messy thoughts and emotions and insides laid bare for Wei Ying’s careful, thorough examination. “Zhan. Lan Zhan,” Wei Ying murmurs. “It suits you.” Or: after a chance encounter with a dashing KTV shaoye, Lan Zhan, a 996 office worker, is left deeply questioning his life and priorities.

Kay's comments: Ah, I've read this story as a thread fic on twitter originally and I'm super happy to see it on AO3 now as well! It's such a delight! In which Wei Ying is a shaoye (male service staff) in a KTV lounge (karaoke/entertainment lounge) to which Lan Zhan is dragged by his new boss. When his boss forces him to drink, Wei Ying manages to save Lan Zhan by drinking the first shot, but the second one he can't decline/can't let Wei Ying drink without both of them getting in trouble for it, so he drinks it and gets knocked out in classic Lan Zhan fashion. Wei Ying then takes him home to sober up and lets him rest there and over the following days, he stays, helps clean the apartment and take care of Wei Ying and Wei Ying's home becomes a safe space for him, where he can think about his life and his job and where he wants to be. It becomes their home. Through Lan Zhan, we also slowly learn more about Wei Ying's life, about the family he had and the pain he carries and ah, it's also very sorrowful and heavy, but so good. This is the kind of story that holds up a mirror for you and you'll have to look inside you and look at your own life and ask yourself: "this is it? Is that OK? What will you do to change it?" and I enjoyed it very much, even if it left my heart aching a little, because there is no shaoye Wei Ying who will save me from my boss ;_;

Excerpt: His hand trembles ever so slightly as he reaches for the glass. “Wait,” a familiar voice says. It’s the shaoye from earlier. Grinning cheekily, he steps between Lan Zhan and the proffered glass. He has a cigarette behind his ear, and his eyes sparkle with good humor. Lan Zhan has never seen anyone more magnetic or attractive in his life. “I'll drink for him.” The shaoye takes the drink from Lan Zhan’s boss’ hand and knocks it back easily. Lan Zhan can’t stop staring. He’s transfixed by the sight of the man’s throat moving, the crystalline slide of liquor down his chin.

Excerpt²: Lan Zhan takes a step towards the front door. There he stops, mind working. The house is tiny — there’s barely enough room to stand, to think, to simply be. The occupant works two jobs, which means they probably have little time to tidy their space, and to relax or recharge in it. Nevertheless, they had still looked after him. Time and effort and care. Priceless things. Things far removed from the world of numbers and sales and contracts. Things that cannot be measured by any known instruments, save the human heart. Thank you, Lan Zhan thinks. And then a beat later, I’m sorry.

modern setting, modern no powers, pov lan wangji, service industry, bar/pub, strangers to lovers, getting to know each other, office worker lan wangji, fanart, past wei wuxian/others, past character death, jiang family dynamics, service worker wei wuxian, jiang cheng & wei wuxian reconciliation, angst and hurt/comfort, angst with a happy ending, grief/mourning, smut, hopefule ending, nude photos, nude modeling, good uncle lan qiren, lan wangji & wei wuxian get a happy ending, @wrecklwj

~*~

(Please REBLOG as a signal boost for this hard-working author if you like – or think others might like – this story.)

#Wangxian Fic Rec #The Untamed #wangxian #MDZS #Kay's Rec #modern setting #modern no powers #pov lan wangji #service industry #bar/pub #strangers to lovers #getting to know each other #office worker lan wangji #fanart #past wei wuxian/others #past character death #jiang family dynamics #service worker wei wuxian #jiang cheng & wei wuxian reconciliation #angst and hurt/comfort #angst with a happy ending #grief/mourning #smut #hopefule ending #nude photos #nude modeling #good uncle lan qiren #lan wangji & wei wuxian get a happy ending #simple love | 簡單愛 #auberjing

[seineko]

ok, let's talk about jiang cheng.

i hate the two extremes that the fandom has when portraying jiang cheng's character.

he's either the best brother the world has to offer or the worst scum of the beings that ever stepped his foot on the planet.

not many actually acknowledge the canon jiang cheng.

(note that i'm neither speaking against him nor for him so take every sentence without any emotion behind it. also, this is written by a person who doesn't like jiang cheng as a character but doesn't hate him - at least most of the time - either, so do with that what you will.)

he lead the siege against the burial mounds in the grief of losing his sister, the person who he loved the most in the world. but it was stupid that he, of all people killed wei wuxian with the reason being wei wuxian killed his sister, when jiang yanli so clearly sacrificed herself so that wei wuxian could live.

he was entirely jealous of wei wuxian since he was a child and has taken decisions in his adulthood with jealousy and envy many times. but it is also important to note that ever since he was a kid he did not have the acknowledgement of his father and all he had in the form of his mother was a person who constantly compared him to someone he wanted to (and to an extent, succeeded) love as a brother, berating him for not being as good and taking put her jealousy and trauma on her child, making him a shell of negative emotions. the latter doesn't, by any means, excuse the former (i cannot stress this enough), but the former cannot be said without acknowledging the latter.

jiang cheng's feelings towards wei wuxian are very complicated for both us as an audience and himself too. he cared for him and wanted him by his side. the fact that he at least cared for wei wuxian is shown when he distracts the wen guards onto himself so that wei wuxian is not caught by them. like it or not, jiang cheng did sacrifice his core for wei wuxian as wei wuxian did for him. and he wanted wei wuxian to be always by his side, it's clear when he speaks about the broken promises between them. but, at a lot of times i felt that he treated wei wuxian as a subordinate more than a brother even though he wanted to treat him as a brother, but he never really realized that he didn't actually treat him the way he did. (correct me if i'm wrong here but this is how i interpreted it.)

jiang cheng is a hypocrite (like a lot of people in this series). he always speaks about wei wuxian's debt to the jiang sect, but he completely brushes aside his own debt to wen ning and wen qing and doesn't even attempt to help them when they're in a dire situation. in fact, he led the siege that killed their family in the burial mounds. lotus pier was fallen and he could not afford to anger the entire cultivation world, but if he holds someone else as to how they should regard a debt, he himself should regard it the same.

fandom has created the divide where either jiang cheng becomes this ray of sunshine for wei wuxian and helps him by turning his back against the entire cultivation world, which is disregarding what his very character is written for, giving into the societal pressure and someone who runs on negative emotions due to his upbringing. or, he is the evil person who doesn't acknowledge the sacrifice made by wei wuxian and demanding that it doesn't matter if he gave his core to jiang cheng because he owes the jiang sect. an action of wei wuxian that jiang cheng evidently has very strong feelings for and sends him into an emotional mess (granted, it doesn't take much for him to go into an emotional mess). and i hate both versions just as equally.

talking specifically about jiang cheng and wei wuxian's relationship, i personally believe that there is no reconciliation. there is an silent agreement that they do not hate each other and an acknowledgement of what has happened between them (silent, because it is never actually spoken about in detail after the mess of emotions that is guanyin temple), but they cannot put what has happened behind them and treat each other like they did during their teenage years, as much as people would love to see that. they can be nothing more than two people who shared a past and cannot be anything less than that either.

wang zhoucheng softened jiang cheng's character for me along with the writing for cql i admit, but it has also made me see things that i otherwise wouldn't have after looking at the sheer bitterness that the adult jiang cheng was in other adaptations.

either ways, i can't bring myself to completely like his character. i dislike his character for a lot of things he did. a lot of actions he has taken without having to bear the consequences of them while every other person of 'lower standing', in their eyes, has to bear the consequences of not only their own but also others has left a sense of bitterness in me that i don't think can ever leave.

there are many other things that i haven't spoken about, but it just pissed me off a bit to always see either 'good brother jiang cheng' or 'scum of earth jiang cheng' and the rarity of the actual jiang cheng.

on a side note, i hate yu ziyuan. she had a powerful core and a husband who would've listened to her but all she did in life was let bitterness consume her to such an extent that she fucked up the life of both her own son and an orphan, even forcing her daughter to take up the role of a mother at a young age. she could've been so much more but she decided to waste her entire life having jealousy and envy over a woman who never actually directly did anything to her, going as far as to abusing the said woman's son (emotionally, if not physically before the lotus pier fell).

i don't have any strong feelings about jiang fengmain's character but he could've done a lot to help jiang cheng by just acknowledging him. he wasn't a good parent and it can never be excused by how shitty his relationship was with his wife.

the only jiang who deserves everything is jiang yanli. precious, precious shijie.

#jiang cheng #jiang wanyin #jiang sect #jiang yanli #jiang fengmian #yu ziyuan #wei wuxian #wei ying #mo dao zu shi #chen qing ling #the grandmaster of demonic cultivation #the founder of diabolism #character study #character discussion #what i feel is #canon jiang cheng #yunmeng jiang #wen ning #wen qing

[wisedawn13]

#xiantober Day 21: Ghost Ladies

There are three ladies.

Wei Wuxian found them one day and communicated with them to see how he could help them move on.

None of them desire to move on yet, they all long to stay by his side. They want to feel safe. They want to feel loved.

All three of them went through their too-short lives, longing for someone to love them and care for them. Their families praised their brothers and all but ignored them.

Wei Wuxian saw their pain and welcomed them easily.

So, they walk with him.

The three ladies stay by his side, chittering away with each other and him. He makes sure to give them attention when they desire it and physical affection when they want. He cares for them deeply.

They are beautiful women taken from the world too soon, he mourns them.

Wei Wuxian wishes he could have known them in life.

The ladies often gossip about anything and everything. Wei Wuxian gladly joins them as he drinks wine. They cuddle up to him, resting their heads in his lap as he caresses their hair softly.

It helps him too.

Wei Wuxian has always been a tactile person. He thrives on physical touch and affection, throwing himself at his friends. Lan Wangji was the person he longed to touch most but also the one he could touch least. Lan Wangji doesn't like touch.

It's different now.

Now, after everything that's happened, Wei Wuxian can't touch people like he used to. He doesn't want to risk them knowing. He can't risk them finding out just how much of him has changed—just how much of him is /gone/.

He misses the easy touching he had with many people.

These ladies help him just as much as he helps them.

The gentle pressure of them against him. The slide of their hair against his palm. It soothes him.

Sometimes, they sing to him when his facade cracks a little too much and they see the pain and sadness beneath.

They sing soft songs to him.

And on days when he's feeling better, they listen to him talk. He tells them all about Lan Wangji. He tells them of how they met, how he teased him and wanted to be his friend. He shares the story of the waterborne abyss and xuanwu of slaughter.

He happily shares his memories of Lan Wangji with his ladies and they listen.

And they tease.

They look at him with cheeky grins and whisper about how in love he must be.

He sighs as he stares out the window, wind blowing his hair. He is, isn't he?

He's in love.

The thought settles in him like it was always there, just waiting to be acknowledged. Waiting to be given a name.

Love.

The ladies watch as he smiles to himself, thinking about how Lan Wangji's hair shifts in the wind.

He loves Lan Wangji. He's in love with Lan Wangji.

And nothing can come of it.

Lan Wangji can't know what Wei Wuxian has done. Not yet, at least. Maybe someday. Maybe, if things change, Wei Wuxian can allow himself to be selfish. Maybe, if things were different, Wei Wuxian could let Lan Wangji in.

He doesn't want to hurt Lan Wangji. He doesn't want to drag him down.

It's all such a complicated mess and Wei Wuxian, unfortunately, can't worry about that right now. But he loves Lan Wangji, and that will never change.

He hopes, someday, he can spend time with him again.

For now, Wei Wuxian has the ladies. Until they are ready to move on.

And one day, Lan Wangji walks by the inn he's drinking at. He isn't the one who notices him, but one of the ladies. She tells him, excited, that the one he loves is below. He laughs to himself at that.

They've never seen Lan Wangji before but they know him so easily purely from how much he has talked of him and described him. So silly.

Wei Wuxian asks the girls to grab some flowers so he can shower Lan Wangji with them, not willing to pass up the opportunity.

They do so with glee. Together, they shower Lan Wangji in flowers and petals until one final flower floats down from where Wei Wuxian is seated and Lan Wangji's gaze lifts to meet his.

Wei Wuxian smiles.

Maybe someday.

Maybe someday he can have more.

----------

Link to thread

#xiantober #wangxian #mdzs #threadfic #mo dao zu shi #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #lan wangi #lan zhan #wei wuxian #wei ying #from twitter #wisedawn13 #fanfic #fanfiction

[dani474]

Jiang Cheng, the Golden Core, and why it's love. [PART 2]

I ended part one by noting that the burial mound siege wasn't the end of their relationship, but it is not the reconnection of it yet either.

Jiang Cheng capturing and torturing people who cultivate like Wei Wuxian, believing they could be possessed by him, is definitely something that would make you think of hatred. So far though, he has not actually come back into contact with Wei Wuxian, neither through the constant spirit summoning or possession trials.

Checking for possession in this moment is especially important, because this is the closest he has been to finding Wei Wuxian since his death. The fact that he's spent the last 13 years doing this is. Unhinged honestly. Even Lan Wangji didn't go out searching for him.

We all know that Lan Wangji knew Mo Xuanyu was actually Wei Wuxian because of WangXian, but Jiang Cheng heavily suspects it’s him due to Wen Ning being the force corpse summoned. 

No matter who might’ve followed WWX’s cultivation methods, summoning WN is probably something no one else has ever tried much less succeeded at. (Later, we learn why, as we learn how Nie Huaisang and Jin Guangyao are both playing their own game, but for now, all we know is that WN hasn’t been seen for at least 13 years.)

Later, we see that Wei Wuxian is scared of dogs, like to the point of potentially being a phobia due to PTSD, and this is what confirms his theory that MXY is still somehow Wei Wuxian even without the possession. Rather than a question of demonic cultivation, this is actual experience with Wei Wuxian's fears, personality, and thought processes.

His emotional state here really shows his conflicting emotions regarding Wei Wuxian and his return, as well.

“Don’t you…have anything to say to me?”

In the novels, it’s noted that Jiang Cheng speaks softly in reply. “You won’t repent, just as expected.”

“And you haven’t improved either.”

I think it's interesting that this^ is what makes Jiang Cheng angry, not Wei Wuxian admitting he has no idea what to say to him. This makes me think he wanted an apology or an acknowledgement in some way, rather than an explanation on how he got his body.

“It’s all your fault that Jin Ling is made fun of like he is now. Don’t you forget how his parents died!” This anger makes total sense, and unfortunately lacks the information around the circumstances that led to Jin Zixuan's death. he's not wrong though, and I'll come back to this.

Wei Wuxian also admitted as soon as he learned it was Jin Ling, that he would've never let someone speak to him that way, so Jiang Cheng's defense here is not one to criticize in general, no matter if the words here are equally harsh.

More than that though, throughout the present period, their interactions are sporadic and limited. Somehow, we go from this tense exchange to one's that begin to unravel more of Jiang Cheng's feelings regarding the entire thing.

When Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian locate Nie Mingjue’s head in Jin Guangyao’s room and attempt to confront him, he is able to attack and force Wei Wuxian to grab his Suiban, leading to his identity being revealed. 

Jin Ling protests here, but Jiang Cheng is visibly unsure, questioning if the possession part could’ve been wrong despite Zidian, because of the sword unsealing itself.

This is his confirmation that Wei Wuxian has returned to the land of the living. After 13 years of searching and torturing people under suspicion (and guilt of demonic cultivation), he's making this face.

In the novels, he’s noted as looking “incredibly upset.” and also that he was “seeming to ponder what action to take.”

Unintentionally, this expression, this moment of hesitation (in a room full of killing intent mid you) reveals just how complicated their relationship actually is. Normally, if you hated someone and had them brought low, you'd take the chance to strike. We see that here with everyone else in the room, later Jin Ling (despite his own messy feelings over it), and later with Nie Huaisang.

Here though, he pauses. Jin Ling had more initiative to harm Wei Wuxian than him.

And at the second burial mound siege, Jiang Cheng led his people into the Den and was willing to consider Wei Wuxian’s theories. It’s unconscious, but he holds that judgment and intellect in high enough regard to actually approach it, rather than dismiss it. When Wei Wuxian makes himself a target, and takes Lan Wangji off with him, Jiang Cheng decides to help too, with no request from anyone. Jin Ling follows AFTER his uncle.

At the end of the fight, when everyone decided to go to Lotus Pier, Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji followed and Jiang Cheng just…didn’t say either way. And when he asks Jin Ling who bullied him, the assumption that it was Wei Wuxian here makes sense in this context specifically. Note that he uses ‘Wei Ying’ in his thoughts.

You can say what you want about Jiang Cheng, but he protects his nephew undoubtedly. Is he perfect about it? No, but I do not expect the same tenderness Yanli could give him. His own experiences with parenting shape the way he responds. Still, Jin Ling tells Wei Wuxian outright that Jiang Cheng has never hit him, and yes, he can be harsh but seems to be trying to avoid belittling him. He is actually looking out for Jin Ling's safety and actively trying to support his cultivation (just not in the best way). Then again, it's hard to change such deeply ingrained responses.

Also, I think that if we're going to call Jiang Cheng abusive (though I personally disagree) for being crass and harsh towards Jin Ling, then we should consider he is an abuse victim and hasn't broken every single toxic trait he's learned. It is not a moral failure, and it actually makes his character more nuanced. So.

Anyways, for the most part, things are ambivalent.

It’s not until Wei Wuxian takes Lan Wangji around Lotus Pier, and they do the tree jump hug thing that things seem remiss. Jiang Cheng witnesses it and sees them going to the Ancestral Hall. More than any of his harsh words towards their ‘friendship’, he’s angry because Wei Wuxian is going without showing respect to Jiang Cheng or even his parents. This is audacious of Wei Wuxian, if only because he didn’t bother to tell Jiang Cheng he’d like to visit the Ancestral Hall. He doesn't live there anymore and their relationship is still very much damaged, so honestly, I can kind of understand being upset about the Ancestral Hall being approached the way it was.

He still blames Wei Wuxian for the destruction of Lotus Pier and Lan Wangji being there is fuel to the fire. Due to his own perceptions, Iang Cheng sees this as a mockery of his parents and their deaths, so I’m not surprised he reacts so negatively. Is it strictly true or fair, no, but it’s also something they’ve never actually talked about. It’s still pent-up between them.

Note that Jiang Cheng only makes a vaguely homophobic comment after Wei Wuxian tells him to shut up (for insulting LWJ). He’s being a dick sure, but this comment was specifically to goad Wei Wuxian into fighting. It’s working. Jiang Cheng’s words after this make me think he’s angrier about the introduction of Lan Wangji to his own parents because of their ‘thing for each other.’ He clearly read the intention of a marriage blessing and I think that’s what’s bothering him the most here. Why? This: “...If you two have any integrity, you shouldn’t have come here and…”

Again. Jiang Cheng points to Wei Wuxian saving Lan Wangji as being the catalyst that destroyed Lotus Pier. This is specifically what he's referencing.

Wei Wuxian strikes first, and then they’re fighting. Which is what Jiang Cheng was looking for. He can’t totally explain why he’s upset, so he argues instead.

Wen Ning decides to tell Jiang Cheng about the Golden Core transfer because he was hurting Wei Wuxian, with his actions but also with the burden of said secret. Jiang Cheng’s reaction to this – the secret itself and his own feelings around it/Wei Wuxian – are pretty justified, and instead of starting a fight later, he mostly shares his true feelings about it. 

Jiang Cheng keeps responding to it with anger, but right here, this is shock and hurt, as far as I can tell. His next words make me believe that: “Lies!” “Lies! All of you are lying to me!” 

Right now, he has no idea what to think of Wei Wuxian. He has no idea what’s really happened and who’s told him the truth. It completely upheaved his current perceptions. He does ask others to try pulling out Suiban. Because he knows, on some level, that WWX’s sword should not be ‘unsealed’ and that Baoshan Sanren should’ve been much more elusive. 

I think the most interesting aspect here is the result of it.

Jiang Cheng does what Wen Ning asks and once he enters the Guanyin Temple, well. Jin Guangyao taunts, throwing his confusion and whirlwind behavior in his face.

His anger here is not at all surprising, considering this is a private issue. The fact that it’s being used against him during this little skirmish is not a good sign for him. It's forcing him to acknowledge that Wen Ning was telling the truth, in a way that even unsheathing Suiban himself can't.

Jiang Cheng is upset here because he’s having all of his accomplishments since the Sunshot Campaign started questioned, diminished, and attributed to Wei Wuxian. Once again, someone is telling him that he will never be good enough, and by mentioning a golden elixir, even implies that he must ‘cheat’ in order to even match Wei Wuxian. Of course, like most people, being compared to someone this way is hurtful, and to have it done repeatedly by so many people who see that other person as more likable and more accomplished, is going to leave deep seated issues.

Still, the moment JGY threatened Wei Wuxian’s life, he was over there to protect him without a thought. JGY was intentionally riling Jiang Cheng up in order to put him in that position. With his ability to read people, he quickly realized that despite any potential anger and hurt, he wouldn’t allow Wei Wuxian to be injured, not when he’s just learned about the Golden Core Transfer. By doing this, he was able to injure Jiang Cheng as he was slower to defend himself.

In response to Wei Wuxian saying “I told [Wen Ning] so many times not to say it!” is anger first. This is probably the most blatant he is about his own insecurities concerning and his own capabilities.

He’s mocking Wei Wuxian’s choice as playing the hero and living up to their sect’s motto in the way he couldn’t.

It’s interesting that Jiang Cheng is overshadowed by Wei Wuxian to the point of viewing himself as inferior at everything; to the point of needing to question who or what he is. This sounded strange to me at first, but subconsciously people recognize that Wei Wuxian’s abilities are higher despite who he is – the son of a servant (or the potential bastard of JFM) according to what’s convenient. Jiang Cheng is lower here because his parentage is “no match” for Wei Wuxian's. The parents aren’t mentioned outright, but why else would a sect heir, and now a sect leader, be pitted against his head disciple and viewed as a failure for not matching up? 

It's the same reason Madam Yu was so angry.

Because failing to match Wei Wuxian is seen as a slight against the Jiang sect. She was angry that Jiang Fengmian kept acknowledging Wei Wuxian but not his own son and heir. It’s why the gossip was so bad, and why it was getting to her. It’s also why Jiang Cheng can't help but be jealous. It's a conflict of status. He feels much lower, but his status is nothing of the sort. Wei Wuxian’s accomplishments are higher and more respected, but his place is much more tenuous. 

This is not either of their faults. It’s the results of classism and parental conflict. The Jiang parent's and their personal strife leads to the belittlement of their children, and the jealousy directed at Wei Wuxian leads to a conflicting position. The son of a servant and a head disciple who should be good, but not better than Jiang Cheng. The son of Canse Sanren who's as well known as Madam Yu, but also brings her disrespect and dishonor in the rumors. Whichever causes the most tension at the time. 

Also, yes, I know Jiang Cheng’s rant in the novel is much more harsh, and his actions more impulsive, but that doesn’t really change anything. People do not act rationally when they are this upset. Some of the things he says in here show how belittled he feels (ex. “You never tell me anything. You treat me like a fool!” and “What am I? Does it serve me right to be blinded by your brilliance?!”)

When Jiang Cheng lashes out here, he’s also questioning their positions, even before he says it outright. He tries to shove Wei Wuxian and we can say whatever about this choice, but to be honest, I very rarely see people who are close peers much less those raised in the same household (whether they’re allowed to consider themselves brothers or not) approach anger or hurt without being a bit of a childish dick about it. Lan Wangji is quick to interfere of course, so Wei Wuxian isn’t actually hurt. 

I already noted why he’s asking these questions. ‘What am I if the son of a servant, even one taken in by my family, can outshine me in everything? How can I live up to that? Why can’t I, when I’m a sect heir? My status is higher than yours, but you are much higher than me.’

Again. It’s not intentional, but it is driven by classism, not just sibling jealousy.  Being so close to one another in their youths makes his perspective on Wei Wuxian's class more flexible than his parents, but it also means the discrepancy between them, and the public opinion is much heavier. It drives those insecurities deeper.

Jiang Cheng going on to mention the deaths that Wei Wuxian caused. It’s no surprise he still blames WWX for being the catalyst in Lotus Pier’s destruction, but I think him bringing up Jin Ling's parents is different. The politics around the Wen’s attacking Lotus Pier are complicated enough that he only mentions his parents rather than the whole sect, as he did in the immediate aftermath of the attack. 

Jin Zixuan and Yanli, though? These must hurt in such a specific way. Wei Wuxian is more to blame for these deaths than the others, because both of them went out into an unsafe situation to help him.

Wei Wuxian was increasingly unstable, his position on its very last leg, and his powers caused the injuries. Yanli is more complicated, if only because she was injured but would’ve survived if she hadn’t stepped in front of a sword strike meant for Wei Wuxian. They chose to protect him, in two different ways. Jin Zixuan was trying to diffuse the situation enough to get Wei Wuxian out safely, and Yanli wanted to calm Wei Wuxian down enough to control the corpses, to get him out of that situation, and more than anything -- she wanted to see him again.

Jiang Cheng’s anger is not unjustified, to be honest. Is it complicated? Yes. Everyone else's actions also caused those deaths. But emotions are not logical nor are they simple. 

And then we get to the crux of the issue, in my opinion. 

This more than anything is why he’s angry. Because breaking it meant Jiang Cheng could not lean on him or count on him for support, which he definitely needed while rebuilding the sect. 

Because it meant his sect (and Jiang Cheng himself, maybe) was not worth protecting. Wei Wuxian did choose to protect ‘outsiders’; he may have done so because it was the right thing to do, because he owed a debt that he couldn’t ever really repay, but it is still a choice that puts the Jiang sect (JC) second. When he asks: “what did you take our family as?”, that is what I hear. 

Jiang Cheng is asking whether or not he should or is allowed to hate Wei Wuxian. LWJ gets in between them and Jiang Cheng decides he can fight if necessary. And to be honest, I can’t help but pay attention to everyone's expressions when he steps closer to Wei Wuxian. Everyone looks so surprised to see he’s in pain, that he’s crying. Everyone takes his at face value, so they miss how much he carries behind all of it.

He’s so angry at Wei Wuxian, maybe even hates him, because more than anything, it hurts.

This is just all that pain and grief coming out. Jiang Cheng lost Wei Wuxian when he broke that promise, and after having lost his parents, then his brother-in-law and sister, that was all he had left.

He doesn’t understand why Wei Wuxian couldn’t tell him these things. It would’ve hurt much less if he knew the truth, I imagine. Because for this entire time, he didn’t have any explanation for Wei Wuxian’s behavior. This, honestly, tells me that he wanted Wei Wuxian to stay. We know Jiang Cheng wanted to protect him, as Yanli did, and now he knows that Wei Wuxian wanted to protect him, too.

When Wei Wuxian apologizes for breaking his promise, Jiang Cheng is upset with himself for needing it. For wanting it. He feels weak for not being able to just hate Wei Wuxian. Because that’s the thing.

Jiang Cheng asked those questions because he struggles to reconcile feeling like he should hate WWX – maybe actually hating him on some level – and still loving him. 

And yes. Jiang Cheng loves him.

He may see Wei Wuxian in a position of both servitude (as his head disciple, regarding the expectations around him being a sect heir, and Wei Wuxian being of a servant’s line) and one of admiration and inferiority to. But they’re close enough to bicker and be tactile as siblings would, but not enough to be considered siblings by anyone else.

They see this causal behavior as one of disrespect, and at Jiang Cheng’s lowest and most politically unstable moments (sunshot and after), he began to see it that way as well. It’s much harder to ignore everyone shouting these kinds of things at you constantly when you have next to no one countering that perception. MianMian and Lan Wangji both tried to stop people from spreading this idea but they couldn’t. Jiang Cheng couldn’t either, and the fact that they fed into pre-existing insecurities makes them very easy to internalize and manipulate. Don’t forget that he’s literally 17-20 when this is mostly happening. 

When Jiang Cheng apologized to Wei Wuxian, and he responded like this, I was questioning if he chose to do it out of obligation.

Why would he say this? Is it because Madam Yu and Jiang Fengmian asked him to take care of their children? Because the Jiang family took him in?

Or because Jiang Cheng accused him of betraying his family? 

Wei Wuxian giving his Golden Core to JC is not something anyone would’ve requested of him to fulfill his obligations to the Jiangs. It was an experimental procedure that hadn’t even been heard of outside of Wen Qing and her family. Wei Wuxian chose to do it because he wanted to protect Jiang Cheng. To protect from his grief and his guilt over not being able to get revenge for their sect. To protect him from feeling inferior. Jiang Cheng was literally at his lowest point and was arguably suicidal. After bringing JC to someplace safe enough for treatment, he’d already fulfilled his duties to the Jiang family. But choosing an extremely risky procedure, to give someone a part of himself that the cultivation world considered near sacred, wouldn’t have crossed any cultivators mind. 

Choosing to do it anyway. How is that NOT out of love? 

It’s just that he didn't tell Jiang Cheng the truth because it would hurt him. And by hurting him this way, making him feel as if none of his accomplishments were his own, he would be dishonoring his obligations to the Jiang parents. 

Wei Wuxian’s own feelings here are more complex. He’s grateful that Jiang Fengmian took him in, so he approaches the Transfer in a way that emphasizes that to reduce the sense of loss. He says as much in the novels:

If he hadn’t been taken in, he’d never have a golden core and would never feel that loss, but he’d never have met Yanli or Jiang Cheng either. So, duty is easier. But this is AFTER.

“If it had not been for Jiang Fengmian bringing him to Lotus Pier, Wei Wuxian might never have crossed paths with the cultivation world. He would never have been conscious of such a mystical and magnificent realm.”

“[...] He’d have had no way of cultivating, let alone a chance to form a golden core. And at that thought, he’d feel a lot better.”

Wei Wuxian wanted Jiang Cheng to live, so he did something that would ensure it, even at the cost of his own health. Regardless of the parents, these three value each other's lives enough to risk their own. It’s shown to us repeatedly. All of these are reciprocal and are done without any need for debt or obligation.

The reason Wei Wuxian says it this way is because he thinks that Jiang Cheng shouldn’t have to apologize for his words. From his perspective, Jiang Cheng believes he should repay the Jiang family, because of how he's been saying these things. 

I say it like that because Jiang Cheng doesn’t like that response. He questions it. To my parents? To my sister? And then Wei Wuxian asks them not to talk about it, to let it be in the past. He’s doing this to protect himself and yet inadvertently implying that he chose to do it because of literally everyone BUT Jiang Cheng. 

It sounds like “I did this to repay your family, not for you.” and that bothers him. But he doesn’t say anything else because Wei Wuxian told him not to. Wei Wuxian said it because he thought it would make Jiang Cheng feel less betrayed. They’ve completely talked past each other and don’t even know it.

He doesn’t look relieved here. Seriously. This is not the face I’d be making if those words relieved me. His face is scrunched and his teeth are clenched. He looks pained. He’s trying to keep the rest of his tears in. 

It hurts him to hear that, but he can't say anything now. 

And with the reveal that Su She casted the Hundred Holes curse on Jin Zixun, Wei Wuxian is rightfully feeling that he was wronged. The moment Jin Guangyao says that, actually, Wei Wuxian would be besieged regardless and would die young, Jiang Cheng gets angry. It hurts to hear, because it ended up being true. JGY knows it and uses that to his advantage, but only after being called the son of a prostitute. (Before that, he's just generally taunting.)

By laying all the blame for Wei Wuxian’s death on Jiang Cheng, he’s hitting a surprising sore point. Jiang Cheng feels guilty over aiding in Wei Wuxian’s death. He knows that the wedge driven between them happened because of his insecurities. And he knows that by allowing the other sects to target Wei Wuxian rather than risk the sect to back him, he pretty much set the stage for Wei Wuxian's death. It took a year, but once there was a ‘reason’, he ended up with no choice but to siege the Burial Mounds. Once again, these things happened due to more than just themselves. They did not have a path outside of this one due to where they both were.

I like the detail that Jin Ling has to hold him back here, but Wei Wuxian also won’t let it slide. He immediately comes to JC’s defense once JGY starts to imply that JC killed him. (He corrected Wen Ning on this, too.)

(Side thing: They both care for Jin Ling. Yes, Jiang Cheng is rude, but he does try his best to spoil and protect him, and when Jin Guangyao takes Jin Ling hostage, he’s upset to the point that he uses the affectionate form of his name. This also causes Wei Wuxian to immediately try to help in response, due to being familiar with Jiang Cheng’s different tones.)

At the end of all of this, Jiang Cheng had wanted to tell Wei Wuxian something just before he left, but didn’t. I particularly like his expression in the manhua. 

“I didn’t get caught by the Wen Clan because I insisted on returning to Lotus Pier to retrieve my parents’ bodies. When you went to buy rations in that small town during our escape, a group of Wen cultivators caught up to us. I noticed them early and left the spot where I’d been sitting to hide in a corner of the street. I didn’t get caught, but they were patrolling, and they would have surely bumped into you while you were getting us food.

So I ran out and lured them away.”

TL;DR

Like most people, Jiang Cheng’s words and actions don’t always match, and they don’t always say what he’s feeling. Can he hurt people with his behaviors, yes. But honestly, this is just how people work and isn't a sign of one-dimensional villainy. He hurts others with his actions and other people’s actions hurt him. It’s just the nature of being involved with others, and especially in loving them. 

Keeping his actions within his relationships in full context is really the only way to understand his motivations, emotions, and why other characters feel the way they do about him. This is about how Jiang Cheng’s insecurities and strained familial relationships influences how he responds to Wei Wuxian over the course of their lives, how politics shaped the fallout, and ultimately why it was not duty that led to the Golden Core transfer, on either side. 

They didn’t tell each other about those sacrifices – ones they made out of love for each other and with little regard for anything else – because knowing would hurt the other. 

Sacrifice as a form of love is a theme between these two. Sacrifice was a form of love between many others too. Yanli, Wen Qing, Lan Wangji, Madam Yu, even. An element of obligation doesn't actually counteract that. Everyone has some level of obligation to the people around them.

Even so. They deal with their issues by pretending they don’t have issues, so of course it builds up. Of course, Jiang Cheng’s personality results in a grudge, but that doesn’t mean it’s all he feels. It’s complicated. I think with people you’re close to, it’s easy to resent them and also love them. I think they love each other, and there’s just so much pain and trauma and communication issues between them that it festers into something ugly. It looks like hate because those pains build until they explode.

I think for someone like Jiang Cheng, it’s so much easier to hate someone than to love them when it’s painful to do so. 

It must have been so much easier to hate the man Wei Wuxian became – the Yiling Patriarch – than it was to remember who that person was, to him. We know that Jin Ling and Jiang Cheng are noted as being similar, and I think Jin Ling’s complicated feelings reflect this point. Jin Ling stabbed Wei Wuxian because of his parents being murdered, but also helped him and didn’t want to see him get hurt, because he came to like the man Wei Wuxian actually was rather than the big scary boogeyman. I think this happened in reverse for Jiang Cheng. Hate the boogeyman to forget the human you knew. 

But, eventually, the truth comes out, and they can’t keep those things in anymore. 

So to me, the Golden Core Transfer, from both ends, was them saying: ‘I want you to live.’ And how can that not be an act of love? Of devotion? We see Yanli’s protection of WWX as an act of love and sacrifice, but not this? Because their relationship cannot be easily described? Because Jiang Cheng is a hard man to work with, or even love? Because acknowledging this level of devotion might threaten the impact of wangxian? Sometimes, for better or worse, we know people who are hard to understand and hard to communicate with, but the love is there and it’s real. And for these two, I think even if the love could not outweigh the tension or the circumstances around them, they tried as best as they could. Because they both believed the other was worth it. 

We know Wei Wuxian has more positive feelings overall towards Jiang Cheng, but it’s much harder to get into Jiang Cheng’s head because he’s not often the narrator. This is on purpose of course, but it also means we can miss intricate details. 

That doesn’t mean it isn’t there though. And that doesn’t mean there’s no love. 

LINK BACK TO PART 1

#mdzs #the grandmaster of demonic cultivation #jiang cheng #wei wuxian #meta #long post #posting these backwards for convenience on my own blog #both of these are fully written and will links added #my post #mine.txt

[ninjakk]

LWJ's POV - Meeting WWX in MXY's body

I've often thought about what LWJs point of view would be during the novel. So I thought it might be interesting to write a little about what I think might be going through his head when he first meets WWX in MXYs body. Obviously this is conjecture, but I will try to base my thoughts on the text as much as possible. Also, as I've read the book many times, I already know the entire plot, so this will come into play as well. Otherwise we'd have no clue what LWJ was thinking, unless you're LXC I guess!

So I think it's pretty safe to assume that our lovely Lan SiZhui, being the exemplary junior he is, reported everything that happened at Mo Village back to LWJ once he arrived on the scene. LSZ probably would have told LWJ about someone controlling the fierce corpses and that MXY went missing once he arrived.

Chapter 8

Lan SiZhui had probably informed Lan WangJi of his suspicious behaviour in Mo Village already. Even so, he had nodded in acknowledgement, probably thanking him for helping out the juniors from the Lan Sect. Without thinking, Wei WuXian immediately returned a salute. When he looked up again, Lan WangJi had already disappeared.

When LWJ meets "MXY" for the first time at Dafan Mountain, he is polite and gives him a slight nod in thanks for helping the juniors back at Mo Village. At this point, LWJ doesn't know "MXY" is in fact WWX, so their interaction is brief. Although WWX does hold eye contact with him as he brushes past him - because he's a minx. So their first meeting is brief and interestingly enough, LWJ is the one to leave first - not WWX trying to get away as fast as he can, as he apparently does later in the chapters. (I personally don't think he tries much at all!)

After JL and the other juniors look like they are in trouble, WWX summons something to help defeat the soul-consuming goddess. To WWX's shock it turns out be WN. Eventually WWX has to play a calming tune to stop WN from developing a killing intent and harming others. WWX clears his mind and a soft song naturally comes to the forefront of his mind.

Chapter 10

To stifle it, Wei WuXian calmed his feelings and assuredly played another melody. The melody had drifted over his mind naturally. It was relaxed and tranquil, contrasting with the bizarre and ear-piercing one from before.

I just absolutely love the second interaction between WWX and LWJ. I can almost imagine LWJ hearing the melody of Wangxian being carried on the wind, floating down the mountain towards him. Calling out to him in a teasing, evocative tone - daring his heart to accept what he was hearing. Evoking so many strong emotions within him, it would have been such a moment of utter turmoil for him. Simultaneously wanting to believe that WWX was back from the dead, as the only logical explanation, and being frightened to let his heart believe such a thing could have actually happened. As no one else knows the song apart from the two of them, he really can't deny it.

We could even go as far as to say LWJ assumes WWX knows what the melody is called. When asked what the tune was called back in the Xuanwu of Slaughter cave, LWJ mumbled something to him twice before WWX passed out. So LWJ may well think, just like he assumes in the cave after the bloodbath of Nightless City, he heard what he said to him back then as well. MXTX likes drawing parallels, so it's not too much of a stretch to assume both apparent 'cave confessions' link up to the some of misunderstandings that surround their relationship.

Chapter 10

Wei WuXian retreated while playing the flute, guiding him to follow. Walking like this for a short distance, they moved into the forest, when suddenly, Wei WuXian caught the chilly scent of sandalwood. Immediately after, his back bumped into someone. With an abrupt pain on his wrist, the flute melody had stopped. Wei WuXian thought, oh no, and turned around to look. His sight collided with Lan WangJi’s eyes. They were light-colored to the point of appearing to be physically cold.

Hearing the music, we can assume LWJ probably got onto Bichen and flew up the mountain as fast as he could. He probably landed in the nearby forest up the top of the mountain and started searching for where the music was coming from. I think he would have been nervous, excited and very confused at this point. The back of "MXY" would have come into view as he edged into the forest, luring WN away from the crowd. Without any doubt, LWJ would have silently walked towards what he now knows is WWX. LWJ then grips WWXs wrist to stop him playing the flute any further.

He decisively ignored the hand that gripped him and raised his arm to continue playing. This time, the tempo was faster, as if it was urging or scolding. His air was not steady and each note cracked at the end, sounding shrill and harsh. Suddenly, Lan WangJi’s hand tightened, almost causing his wrist to break. Wei WuXian’s fingers loosened from the pain and the wooden flute dropped to the ground.

What WWX assumed is LWJ being angry at someone daring to use Demonic Cultivation in front of him, was in my opinion, LWJ trying to protect him. It is even confirmed in the text, that LWJ doesn't pay any attention to WN the whole time he is holding WWX's wrist. LWJ knows that JC is also somewhere around the mountain and that he absolutely hates anyone who mimics WWXs cultivation style. Which I think is why he is trying to stop WWX, to ensure he doesn't attract any attention from JC again. WWX continued to play the flute in order to make WN leave before more trouble ensued. LWJ intensifies his grip on WWXs grip to stop him playing.

Wei WuXian feared that Lan WangJi would chase after Wen Ning, so he backhandedly grabbed him instead. But, surprisingly, Lan WangJi never even looked at Wen Ning once, but stared at Wei WuXian the whole time. The two stood face toface, gripping each other’s arms, and stared.

I love the scene where they are gripping each other's arms and staring into each other's eyes. Whether WWX wants to admit it or not, there must have been some sexual tension there surely?! We aren't even privy to WWX's thoughts at this moment, which is quite interesting. As such, we can only imagine what's going through his head! Probably something to do with LWJ's sexy icey gaze - my personal headcanon! (Never mind WWXs obsession with his eyes - I think I'm developing one! ) On the other hand, LWJ is most likely thinking about how WWX must have seized someone's body, as I'm pretty sure he would not be aware of the technique MXY used.

At this point JC appears and is told about "MXY" summoning WN. JC doesn't need anymore proof, he knows this has to be WWX as WN was summoned - and he was supposed to be ash by now! JC decides to attack WWX with Zidian, in an attempt to whip his soul out of MXY's body.

He let go of his left hand, and a long whip dangled from it. The whip was extremely slender. Like its name, it was a streak of purple lightning which sizzled, as if it had just been taken away from a sky full of storm clouds. He held one side of it in his grip. As it was brandished, it seemed to let out rapid slashes of lightning! Before Wei WuXian moved, Lan WangJi had already placed his zither in front of him.

LWJ instantly protects WWX knowing that his soul will be whipped out of the person's body if it had been forcefully taken. So when WWX is whipped and nothing happens, LWJ (and JC!) are utterly shocked. LWJ is still convinced "MXY" is WWX, because he played Wangxian and no one else has ever heard this song - so he must be perplexed as to how WWX has managed to come back.

LWJ continues to protect WWX to ensure JC doesn't take him back to Lotus Pier and torture him. Personally, I think LWJ had every intention of taking WWX back to the Cloud Recesses this time around anyway - especially to protect him from JC. WWX tries to escape both of them by making them feel so uncomfortable around him they leave him alone. So he uses MXY's reputation as a lunatic and a cut-sleeve to try and scare JC and LWJ off.

Wei WuXian replied, “Which type? Well, I am very much attracted to people like HanGuang- Jun.” Lan WangJi could not tolerate this sort of frivolous and foolish joke at all. If he felt disgusted, he would definitely draw a line between them and keep his distance. Disgusting two people at once—this was killing two birds with one stone! However, as Lan WangJi heard this, he turned around. His face was emotionless, “Mark your words.” Wei WuXian, “Hmm?” Lan WangJi turned back, speaking in a mannerly yet resolute way, “I will take this person back to the Lan Sect.” Wei WuXian, “...” Wei WuXian, “...Huh?”

As we're assuming this from LWJ's POV, we are privy to information we weren't if we were reading MDZS for first time. With that in mind, LWJ is under the impression WWX remembers his confession to him after the Bloodbath of Nightless City. As such, he probably thinks WWX is being flirty and teasing him when he is acting as "MXY" out of gratitude towards him for saving him all those years ago. LWJ continues to protect WWX by taking him back to Gusu. Which I find quite poetic, considering LWJ wanted him to come back with him in WWXs first life.

Later still, WWX is apparently trying to get thrown out of the CR by climbing into bed with LWJ, attempting to 'disgust' him.

Chapter 12

Lan WangJi spoke, “Are you sure that this is what you want?” “...” For some reason, Wei WuXian felt that he should carefully consider his reply. As he was about to curl his lips into a smile, a numbness suddenly came from his waist, and his legs gave out. With a thump, he fell onto Lan WangJi’s body. The curvature of a half-smile was frozen on his lips. His head was at the right side of Lan WangJi chest and he couldn’t move at all. Lan WangJi’s voice came from above him. His voice was low and deep. His chest vibrated slightly as he spoke each word. “Then stay like this for the whole night.”

WWX teasing LWJ is something he has done since his first life, so LWJ probably assumes he's up to his old tricks again. LWJ has matured over the years and has accepted his love for WWX. As such, he can fully embrace WWXs teasing and can now even tease him back! Which is exactly what he does! In fact, I'd say LWJ has gotten very good at teasing WWX. WWX had already met his match with LWJ in nearly every way, but now he is competing for biggest tease as well!

Obviously everyone reads characters and text differently at times, so I'm sure there are many different ways to interpret LWJ's POV. But I just thought it would be fun to share my interpretation of one of my favourite characters.

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #mdzs lan wangji #mdzs lwj #mdzs novel #lan wangji #character pov #my thoughts

[t4tnalu]

i think you’re right you know. wwx let himself be impaled by his own nephew bc he still feels guilty about being complacent in his father’s murder, even if jin zixuan’s death could have been avoided if the cultivation world wasn’t so dead set on persecuting wwx and the wens for the sins of their prior ruler. and no one acknowledges his pain and anger that set his beloved nephew against him and yeah jiang cheng helps him in the fight against jgy but in the end, he still doesn’t understand what wwx has done for him and that losing their parents and sister was just as traumatic for wwx as it was for him regardless of their blood

Yeahhhh like his tendency to swallow his own anger for the sake of making peace will either be to protect his family or to protect himself but I don't think it ever really comes across to Jiang Cheng that way because well. He is truly the Youngest Sibling archetype through and through. Even when he learns and understands what Wei Wuxian and Jiang Yanli did for him he still doesn't really get it.

But then I think Wei Wuxian also has a huge blind spot for Jiang Cheng as well as far as like. Only thinking about protecting him and managing him rather than considering that Jiang Cheng may want to protect him in return. Part of their communication issues for sure!

#like. i think jiang cheng really wanted to protect wei wuxian initially. which is why he wanted him to abandon the wens #but ofc. wwx was never going to do that ever. #asks #mdzs

[trans-xianxian]

🔥🔥🔥 (unpopular wangxian opinion maybe?)

this is kind of an unpopular wangxian opinion combined with an unpopular yunmeng bros opinion but it is my firmly held belief that lan wangji and wei wuxian cannot have a healthy relationship, and jiang cheng and wei wuxian cannot truly reconcile, if wei wuxian does not take jiang chengs side sometimes. I've talked about wei wuxian Rage and wei wuxian Hurt before and I truly believe that wei wuxian both deserves to be angry with jiang cheng, and that it would be Healthy for him to let himself feel any kind of negative emotion towards somebody he loves on his own behalf and not just in defense of somebody else, instead of just shoving it all down

but wei wuxian also needs to be on jiang chengs side sometimes and wei wuxian and lan wangji Need to work on their differences regarding jiang cheng. I very much believe that wei wuxian and lan wangji would disagree on things in general, a healthy and productive relationship of any kind has disagreement - they are separate people, and it would be weird if they agreed on everything or Tried to agree on everything, and, in my opinion, we know that they don't agree on jiang cheng

wei wuxian is sympathetic to lan wangji's frustrations, and probably shares some of them (as I said earlier: wei wuxian Anger wei wuxian Rage), and lan wangji is respectful of wei wuxians remaining love for jiang cheng, but for things not to fester and become ugly there has to be more than a surface level acknowledgement of this, and like I said earlier, for reconciliation to at all be interesting or valuable to me, wei wuxian Has to take jiang chengs side over lan wangji's at least sometimes, and more than that jiang cheng and lan wangji need to know and be comfortable with the fact that wei wuxian agreeing with one of them over the other does not mean he is irrevocably Choosing one of them over the other

I don't think that lan wangji and jiang cheng have to like each other, in fact I am confident that they likely never will, but I Do think that they have to be able to get along, for the sake of both of their relationships with wei wuxian and wei wuxian himself, who does not deserve a second life where he is once again forced to choose what is most important to him and never be able to look back. wei wuxian should be able to love many people and be loved by many people and not be made to feel like he is committing an act of betrayal by making a choice. ultimately I think that it will be far easier for lan wangji to understand this than it will for jiang cheng

#and obviously wwx needs to take lwjs side over jcs too but thats a very popular opinion akhsnxuks #I read a fic once where lwj and wwx had a disagreement about jc and wwx ran off #and when lwj found him wwx was like oooh I'm so sorry I was wrong you were right #like WHAT #NO let wwx unapologetically disagree!!! #like kind of a major character trait but okay #not that he would never concede but like. I think he would have stood his ground abt that #weird to me when ppl are like yean yunmeng bros reconcile #but also wwx doesn't take jcs side on anything and never disagrees w lwjs dislike of his beloved younger brother #like. what #again wei wuxian needs to be angry with jc!!! I firmly believe this!!!! it's important to me!!!! #but whats the point of reconciling both of their anger and both of their mistakes #if wwx Never defends jc or agrees with him #wwx?? who gave up his own golden core for his brother??? who remembered not to hurt him at nevernight even in his blind insanity??? okay #anyway. #ask #anon #lwj #wwx #jc #wangxian #yunmeng bros

[admirableadmiranda]

How to you feel about wwx sort of taking advantage of lwj when he’s drunk re: the kiss? (It’s a genuine question, I’m trying to instigate a fandom war or bash any character!)

Well first off anon, I think that framing it as "sort of taking advantage" already states where your thoughts on it lie. I recognize that you do likely mean to be neutral and are asking in good faith and just accidentally missed the word not, but the way you phrased the question does have a lead in.

Which is really unfair because I wouldn't call either stolen kiss in Modaozushi either one of them taking advantage of the other. They are both impulsive actions, taken then immediately regretted with neither of the kissed party punishing the other in any way.

The Phoenix Mountain Kiss has been done to death, but let's go ahead and talk about the DrunkJi 2 kiss. It might be a bit scattered because I was having some revelations myself about this moment when I was rereading the scene. Namely that LWJ is being a lot more consenting than it first appears.

They are both not sober in the moment. Wei Wuxian was drinking before Lan Wangji joined him, at the end of the scene he discovers that the whole bottle is empty while he's all rattled about it. I would hesitate to call Wei Wuxian drunk, but as someone who has had more than my own fair share of drinks, there is a point where you can still be very aware of your actions, your senses yet your instinct that pulls you back is numbed. And it does not necessarily take a lot of drinking to get there.

They have been playing a very flirty game. Lan Wangji was threatened if he got caught during chase to get licked and his response was to turn around and walk right into Wei Wuxian to be licked. He gets all shuddery and fluttery about it like the flustered maiden he is, but also goes back in for more. He is definitely very drunk, but every sign that Wei Wuxian is getting is not only a level of enjoyment, but actively seeking out more. In addition, this is the second time Lan Wangji has gotten drunk around Wei Wuxian, so it's not like it's a surprise to either of them that he's a bit of a wild child, running around, causing trouble and being a pouty baby when Wei Wuxian doesn't give him what he wants. Lan Wangji choosing to drink alongside Wei Wuxian is both of them acknowledging that this is going to go in interesting directions; Lan Wangji is not going to remember it and he trusts Wei Wuxian with his drunken inhibition free self.

Here's where we get to the first amazing thing I've discovered on rereading this. There is a lot more going on beneath the surface than framing this as Wei Wuxian suddenly kissing Lan Wangji out of nowhere. This whole scene is showing us what their dynamic really was when they were younger and how only now do they have the ability to actually pick up on these confused signals that they were sending each other as teenagers.

Lan Wangji may be drunk, but for the first time, Wei Wuxian is absolutely picking up on what he wants.

As he was pondering, Lan WangJi turned around, his face as calm as always, “Again.”

Wei WuXian, “Again? Again what?”

Lan WangJi hid behind the wooden screen once more and peeked at him with only half of his face showing.

His intentions were as clear as could be—again, you chase, I run.

Speechless for a moment, Wei WuXian obeyed and did it again. This time, having only been chased for a short while, Lan WangJi ran into him again.

Wei WuXian, “You really are doing this on purpose, aren’t you?”

Again, Lan WangJi brought Wei WuXian’s arms around his neck as though he couldn’t understand what his words meant, waiting for him to fulfil his promise again.

These are not the actions of someone who just wants to play. There is a whole other layer going on beneath the surface. A context clue clicks into place for Wei Wuxian and presumably the audience as well, although that latter one I strongly doubt given that I only really caught onto it now myself.

Lan Wangji is not running because he is afraid or because he isn’t enjoying it. Lan Wangji is running because he wants to be chased and caught. He wants to resist up to a point and then give into Wei Wuxian and surrender the need to pretend and protest. Wei Wuxian is teasing him as though he were a playful kid, cause licking is gross at that age and it theoretically should make Lan Wangji run faster. Instead he makes it a few steps, turns around and walks right into Wei Wuxian’s arms.

It is rather an intensely vulnerable scene as I reread it for this. For just a moment, Wei Wuxian lets his guard down because Lan Wangji is asking him for something very different than he might sober and he is responding to that deep attraction within the both of them. He has picked up on that Lan Wangji was a little frightened of the deepness of the emotions within, but also he really does want it. Thus he continues because he for a brief few splendid moments has no doubt.

With his arms around Lan WangJi, Wei WuXian returned to the bed with him, then asked, “You like this, don’t you? Don’t turn around. Speak. Do you like it or not? If you like it, we don’t have to run around every single time. How about I let you have as much fun as you want?”

As he spoke, he held up one of Lan WangJi’s hands, bent down, and kissed between two of his slender fingers.

Lan WangJi wanted to take his hand away again, but Wei WuXian held it tightly, not allowing him to do so.

And then, Wei WuXian’s lips pressed onto his distinct knuckles. Softer than the touch of feather, his breaths wandered to the back of his hand, and he kissed again.

It is easy to forget, especially since the extent of Lan Wangji's strength won't be shown until the Guanyin Temple, about sixty chapters away from this point, but he is very strong and Wei Wuxian is in the body of a normal person who has not cultivated a golden core. The text here in ExR Allure says that Wei Wuxian wouldn't let him pull his hand away, but if he actually really wanted to stop it, he could easily pull his hand away or push Wei Wuxian off. He is not resisting because he doesn’t want it, he is resisting because he is continuing to play hard to get.

He is still being chased, Wei Wuxian is about to catch him.

Lan WangJi couldn’t pull his hand back no matter how hard he tried. He could only clench his fingers together into a tight fist.

Wei WuXian lifted up his sleeves, revealing the pale-skinned wrist, then kissed it as well.

After he kissed, he didn’t raise his head. He only turned his eyes to Lan WangJi, “Is that enough?”

Is that enough for Lan Wangji, hapless fragile maiden being seduced by the man he really, really likes? No, no he would like a little more romancing please.

Lan WangJi pursed his lips, refusing to speak a single word. Wei WuXian finally sat up straight again and continued, his voice unhurried, “Tell me. Have you burnt any paper money for me?”

There was no answer. Wei WuXian laughed out loud and inched toward him. Over the clothing, he kissed where his heart was, “If you don’t talk, I’m not gonna give you any more. Tell me. How did you know it was me?”

Lan WangJi closed his eyes. His lips quivered, as though he was on the verge of confessing.

Suddenly, however, as Wei WuXian stared at those soft, pale-red lips, he didn’t know what had taken over him, but he suddenly went and kissed them.

After the kiss, he even licked them, as though a kiss wasn’t enough.

Wei Wuxian accidentally flips the game here. Lan Wangji is being coaxed slowly here and he is about to give in. Presumably to confess something that he might have wished he was sober to say, but as we’ve ascertained in both this and the previous DrunkJi he won’t speak if he doesn’t want to. Then Wei Wuxian gets a bit caught up in the moment and his lowered inhibitions get the better of him and he suddenly has to kiss Lan Wangji.

And there is no denying it that it is an impulse. He is shocked and rattled by what he’s just done and panics, throwing himself on the ground while Lan Wangji knocks himself out. Now I may be crucified by the purity police, but I’m pretty sure that taking advantage of someone involves some intent to y’know, take advantage of them. Not get caught up in the moment when you’re romantically playing with the guy you’ve been in love with since you were fifteen and get overwhelmed by instinct before remembering the situation and panicking. It throws him off balance so badly that he needs some time to recover from it.

Both of them widened their eyes.

A moment later, Lan WangJi raised his hand. At once, Wei WuXian was startled into realization. He immediately broke into a cold sweat, fearing that Lan WangJi would smack him dead on the spot, and quickly scrambled off the bed. Turning around, he saw Lan WangJi smack his own forehead. He now lay unconscious, collapsed on the bed.

Inside of the private room, Lan WangJi lay on the bed as Wei WuXian sat on the ground. A cold gust of wind rushed inside through the opened windows, sending chills down Wei WuXian’s back. His head finally felt clearer.

He stood up from the ground, pushed the table to where it used to be, then sat down beside it.

After spacing out for a while, he used his teeth to bite at the knots on the forehead ribbon. With effort, he finally managed to open the stack of lumps.

Now that his hands had been loosened, to get over the shock, he went to pour himself a cup of liquor. He held the cup to his lips for a few moments, but not a single drop entered his mouth. Looking down, he finally saw that there wasn’t any liquor in the cup at all. He had already downed the entire pot. Even when he was pouring, he failed to notice that nothing was being poured out.

Wei Wuxian is not exactly at his finest moment here. He might be a little bit rattled. First he has to sit on the ground for a bit. Then he moves the table, sits down and spaces out again. Even the exertion and effort required to untie himself still doesn’t snap him out of it as he still fails to notice that there’s no alcohol in his cup until he tries to drink it. Again, I would not call this taking advantage of Lan Wangji in any way as the very fact that he lost control for a moment and went that far has clearly shaken him up pretty badly.

There are definitely some things with consent in Wangxian, both in them crossing lines and in learning how to communicate with each other. But the fact that people want to blame one of them for their actions when what we get is that one of them makes a mistake and the other both forgives them and they learn from it frustrates me.

I’m not going to say that Wei Wuxian took advantage of Lan Wangji here. I’m not going to say that Lan Wangji took advantage of Wei Wuxian on Phoenix Mountain. I am going to say that they were two people who had no one to offer them guidance who sometimes fumbled a bit on the path to building a lovely, healthy, happy, trusting relationship.

Because sometimes it really actually doesn’t matter that much and people put way too much emphasis on making sure that every action someone takes is the perfect correct action and anything that even hints at maybe not being perfect must be apologized and corrected for. It’s a horribly restrictive way of looking at relationships and to me speaks of people not trusting each other at all.

Wangxian don’t hold any of these actions against each other, why are we?

#mdzs #wangxian #lan wangji #wei wuxian #drunkji #asks #anon #anon asks #consent talk #what is with this need to blame wangxian for their actions #especially considering that wwx's response to finding out that lwj kissed him all those years ago #is to be super happy that it was lwj because he's never wanted to kiss anyone else #lwj's reaction on waking up isn't to wonder what happened or be concerned #it's to tease wwx that he reaps what he sows #they trust each other so much #why do we need to take that away for consent debates

[ot3showdown]

Awesome! I have more propaganda. This one is for a non-canon ship from an obscure fandom. So I'm posting this mostly for fun and to try to get some others to check out the show. I also have the only fanfic for this ship on ao3. Lol 😆

But the chinese historical drama The Wolf has three main leads: Ji Chong, Ma Zhaixing, and Youwen(Langzai), and I love them all.

It features a lead female (Ma Zhaixing) who is in an arranged marriage with a man (Youwen/Langzai) who she used to be best friends with as a kid (he was raised by the wolves in the forest by her house!?) but is pretending that he ISNT that man and/or that he doesn't remember her because his dad is a bad guy and plot reasons. Then she runs away with the second guy (Ji Chong), who is a wanderer but he turns out to be a prince (for the 'good' king on the other side of the war). And then THEY get married, because it turns out she is a lost princess too??? But she doesn't love him as much as the other guy (despite them being besties and him being SUCH a good guy, and he LOVES her). So eventually, he lets her go so she can be with the other guy, and then they all team up to take down the first guy's evil dad.

BUT the reason I ship them ot3 is cus the 2 guys are friends and get along well. Also, they both acknowledge how much the other cares for her. And, like, one half is long-time loves, and the other half is literally married. So I feel like the obvious answer is to just, both date her, and combine the 2 kingdoms into one. Also, there is one scene where im like: oh, the guys have chemistry, too.

This is the scene :

Also Ji Chong is my favorite Xiao Zhan role (yes even more than wei wuxian) and the COSTUMES in the show are so good. They gifs I picked are not good representationz of the absolutely amazing outfits.

Ok thats all. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

OH. the drama. the intrigue. i do wanna check this out now. ive been a little allergic to subbed shows bc of my lack of focus but i wanna make and effort for them this show seems like fun! and they sound lovely :)

#asks #ot3 showdown #ship propaganda

[wuxianxkexing]

My The Untamed hot take. I've noticed that no one really seems to acknowledge the fact that from Jiang Cheng's POV, aside from everything else that he blames Wei Wuxian for doing, he probably also thought that Wei Wuxian and Wen Qing (his crush) had a romantic thing going on.

They both owed Wen Qing their lives, but Jiang Cheng was unable to repay her in her time of greatest need, despite his feelings for her, because of his obligations to his sect. Wei Wuxian had similar pressure to remain loyal to his sect, he was head disciple and promised to both help restore the sect and become famous with Jiang Cheng, plus Jiang Cheng and Jiang Yanli both genuinely considered him to be their brother. From Jiang Cheng's POV Wen Qing was beautiful and amazing (he had to since he had a crush), so it's only natural that he would think everyone else would feel the same way about her, including his own brother. I can almost guarantee that he suspected that Wei Wuxian and Wen Qing were romantically involved. Wen Qing went to Wei Wuxian for help instead of him. She returned his comb. Wei Wuxian left the sect to live in exile with Wen Qing. Why would Wei Wuxian break all of his promises and abandon all of his responsibilities? What force could be strong enough to compell him to do that? It couldn't just be because of a life debt in Jiang Cheng's eyes, because he had the same debt but didn't betray his sect, so it must be true love. A stronger love than he had for Wen Qing anyways. It actually sounds rather romantic.

Also Jiang Cheng never once mentioned anything about his feelings to Wei Wuxian! Which could be interpreted as his way of giving his blessing, because Jiang Cheng isn't the type to normally keep quiet about things that make him mad. In the inside Jiang Cheng probably feels at least slightly betrayed by his brother "stealing" his girl, but he rationally knows that he can't outwardly get mad at Wei Wuxian over it when he didn't even know. Plus who is he to talk when he failed to protect Wen Qing despite his feelings for her? If anything he probably just lets out a bitter laugh when he thinks of it. I don't think it was an easy choice for him make. Jiang Cheng isn't really an idealist, he knows how the world works and he bitterly made the "right" choice the first time and would do it again. Regrettably so, but such is the reality of the world that they live in. They were always fated to be star crossed lovers.

Also it would probably be awkward if they ever have a reconciliation and start talking about Wen Qing.

Jiang Cheng: "What do you mean you and Wen Qing weren't a thing?!"

Wei Wuxian: speechless, wondering why Jiang Cheng would ever think that in the first place

#wei wuxian #the untamed #jiang siblings #jiang wanyin #yunmeng jiang #jiang cheng #wen qing #lotus pier #mdzs #wei ying #burial mounds #wwx #wq #star crossed lovers #hot take #headcanon