#queens' gallery | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

royboyfanpage · 1 month

Note

Hello, please don't take this the wrong way but when I first started getting into comics I really disliked Ollie for how he treated/reacted to Roy and the whole drug thing but many years and more experience later (I know the characters a bit better now and stopped reading bad takes on tumblr) I'm realising that theres a lot more nuance and apparently they've got a really close relationship these days?? So I was just wondering if you might be able to explain that to me because I'd love to get into more arrow stuff (honestly mostly fanficton because lbr comics are crazy confusing and expensive) but I'm struggling to shake the assumptions I made about Ollies character when I was younger

Hi anon! Thank you soooo much for this ask, I've been looking forward to answering it for hours and now I finally have the time. Ollie's one of my favourite fictional archers, and I adore talking about him at any opportunity because he is SUCH a nuanced character. So here's-

Why Oliver Queen Doesn't Suck

Mandatory disclaimer that this is my own opinions, other people may have different interpretations which is totally fine! Ollie's been around for over 80 years, there's a lot of content to read and a lot of conflicting characterisations, so other people may see him differently than me. Also disclaimer that much of this was written from memory. I fact-checked the date of Nixon's declaration of the War on Drugs and the Denny O'Neil quote, but the rest of this was from memory. Apologies for any innaccuracies, both for comics and context.

Now that that's out of the way, lets talk Snowbirds.

In order to discuss Snowbirds Don't Fly, one of the most important things to factor in is context. I understand it can be difficult to see through the historical lense of a time period in which the majority of people on this website, myself included, were not even born let alone reading comic books. However, it's still crucially vital to discuss what was going on in the real world at the time of its publication in order to engage in a rich discussion of the comic. Snowbirds was published the year that the War on Drugs officially began following Nixon's declaration of drugs as "public enemy number one" on June 17th 1971, just under two months before the release of Snowbirds part 1 in August of that year. At the time, drug addiction was very much seen as a moral failing, and the war on drugs focused heavily on the incarceration of drug users (particularly ones that the US Government wanted an excuse to lock away such as people of colour and pacifists against the war in Vietnam, but that's not relevant to Snowbirds.) While Snowbirds was absolutely not a perfect comic, it was created to show a more humanising side of addicts than the usual demonisation seen on the news. In the words of writer Denny O'Neil, “we chose Roy [...] to show that addiction was not limited to 'bad' or 'misguided' kids.” It was created to show that addiction was not a moral failing, and that anyone could fall into it due to circumstances, even someone we've already accepted as 'one of the good guys' for the past 30 years. Roy was used as the symbol of a good kid who made a bad mistake in order to humanise real young people who'd gone through similar circumstances. And where there's a kid, there's a parent, which is where Ollie came in.

Now, I very strongly believe that Ollie was not written to be the bad guy of Snowbirds. Not only was he also an established 'good guy', but he was a symbolic stand-in for much of America at that time, including the people who would be reading it. And, while Green Arrow is very much a character who brings with him a lot of strong political takes, villainising their readerbase would be a step too far. Ollie was a stand-in for the concerned and ill-informed parent, a character who's consumed all the anti-addict propaganda being spread at the time and internalised it. That's why the fact that it was his own ward struggling with addiction was so poignant to the story. Ollie was forced to re-evaluate his worldview after seeing someone who he knows isn't what the media says addicts are struggling with addiction. Snowbirds has such an interesting character arc for Ollie, seeing him struggle to combine the ideas of what he's heard and what he's actively seeing in his mind.

Now, the most infamous part of Snowbirds is, obviously, the slap. Full disclaimer, I am not saying that Ollie is in the right for that. He was 100% undeniably in the wrong for how he responded to Roy's addiction. However, I think a key component of comic books that people tend to ignore is the component of marketing. The writers wanted this comic to sell. It was a very important story for the time, and with the amount of comics being released it was crucial to them that people actually found the comic and read it, especially since it was one of the first comics released outside of the strict rules of the Comics Code. And what would catch readers' eyes more than seeing a superhero hitting his sidekick whilst said sidekick is surrounded by drugs? I'm not trying to discredit the panel, it was obviously a very significant part of the story, but there were external factors at play too.

A lot of the development of Roy and Ollie's relationship is seen in comics released post-Snowbirds, but even in the comic itself there's clear development, particularly at the end. Snowbirds Don't Fly is a character arc for Ollie of him adjusting his worldview in order to grow and better himself after recognising his own biases. And people tend to forget that Snowbirds ends with Roy hitting Ollie back, and what does Ollie do? He listens. He lets Roy get his frustrations out, and listens to Roy's perspective, and he's proud of him by the end of it, proud of the young man he is.

Okay, now that we've gotten Snowbirds out of the way, let's talk about-

Post-Snowbirds

There's a common misconception that Roy and Ollie having a close relationship is a recent development, which just isn't true. While it could've absolutely been explored in more detail, it's clear that Roy and Ollie reconciled post-Snowbirds. The earliest example that comes to mind is 1993's Green Arrow vol 2 #75, wherein Ollie and Roy refer to each other as father and son.

Keep in mind that this was written by Grell who is, at least in my opinion, one of the best references for Ollie. While they did have some issues in the later issues of the run preceding Ollie's death (the causes of the conflict I'm unsure of, they were on rocky terms during Connor's introduction but I don't know why, if anyone has context for that please let me know but that could've just been a choice Dixon made), it's clear to see that Snowbirds was not something that permenantly damaged their relationship. Ollie put in the effort following his actions, to better himself both as a father and as a person, and Roy recognised that and forgave him. Parent/child relationships are hard anyway, let alone under the circumstances Roy and Ollie are under as heroes, and the fact that Ollie actually recognised his own flaws is far more than many parents do.

If we go later, we can see Roy talking fondly about Ollie whilst Ollie was dead in Titans (1999), fondly recalling memories with him from his youth, as well as keeping a photograph of him on his wall.

While Roy does recognise that things with Ollie weren't always perfect, he does also acknowledge the good times between him and Ollie, and it's clear from the way he speaks that he holds a lot of love for him.

Later still, when Ollie returns from the dead, the duo reunite with fondness

One thing particularly that stands out to me is that, at this point, Ollie was missing many of his memories and Snowbirds was still fresh in his mind, with him bringing up Roy's addiction multiple times throughout Quiver as if it happened within at most the span of two years. Despite this, he still embraces Roy and treats him with love, making it clear that Ollie loved Roy even near to the Snowbirds era. There are more instances I could go into in Green Arrow (2001), but I'm running out of free time, so I'd highly recommend reading it :)

Aaaand later still, Ollie openly admits to having fucked up with Roy during Snowbirds.

He admits his failings, and demonstrates that he's got Roy's best interests at heart. He's not being selfish, he's letting Roy have his moment in his initiation as Red Arrow and staying in the background because he believes that's what's best for Roy. And-

He openly states that he loves Roy.

There's more in the current continuity I could reference, but I don't have the time to go through them right now and I'm definitely more familiar with content pre-52 (particularly 1994-2004 is the ten years I'd say I know the best), so hopefully this is enough.

Roy and Ollie's relationship isn't perfect. It has clear ups and downs, which is what makes them so interesting! Oliver Queen is a very loving, yet very flawed man, and to go either way of "evil abuser" or "perfect father" discredits who he is.

Anyway, your faves don't have to be unproblematic to love them. Ollie has a really compelling character arc during and after Snowbirds, and I like him a lot :)

For further reading, check out my masterlist on my pinned post, particularly Oliver Queen's B- Parenting, Snowbirds (1), and Snowbirds (2)

Edit: In the original version of this post, I incorrectly credited Mike Grell for the introduction of Ollie's socialism and giving away his money. While Grell did expand the concept, it was first developed by O'Neil. My apologies for the misinformation.

#tw drugs #roy harper #speedy #arsenal #red arrow #green arrow #oliver queen #snowbirds don't fly #thank you for the ask anon!!!#i will get to your second ask asap #fun fact the only panel i screenshotted specifically for this post was the quiver reunion #the rest were already in my gallery

62 notes · View notes