#seriously dc could not have done worse with teen titans

[arabian-batboy]

So several people have asked me about my opinion about James Gunn making a live-action Batman & Robin movie centered on Bruce and Damian that’s based on Grand Morrison and Tom King runs, I already shared what I thought on twitter, but to summarize it: this is the worst news I have heard while in this fandom and if this movie happens, Damian’s and Talia’s characters will forever be ruined.

As all of you know, movies always have a massive effect on how the general public view comic characters for many years after the drop, even if their portrayal in the movie was a complete 180° change from their usual selfs. I mean look at how much damage the animated movies have done to these characters’ reputation? Now imagine what a live-action Batman movie would do, whatever “The Brave and the Bold” will do to Talia and Damian, it will easily stick to their image for 10+ years and will most likely influence the comics to imitate the movie and change their portrayal in them in a way that align with the movie, again, even if it’s completely different or regressive for their characters.

Then you have all the red flags from Gunn’s statement, first of all he’s influenced by MORRISON’S and KING’S runs? That’s the biggest red flag of them all, because if you like these two characters then you would know that these runs are hands dow the worst possible combination you could pick as an adaptation and somehow Gunn’s managed to choose both of them, seriously all that is left is for him to reference Teen Titans: Rebirth and its over for us.

I have already went on and on about how Morrison’s racist treatment of Talia is the definition of character-assassinations and how till this day her reputation hasn’t recovered yet from it, there might have been some progress lately, but it will all go through the drain if this movie happens because I don’t see Gunn’s, how sings so much praise about Morrison’s run, will bothering fixing the racist caricature that Morrison created, especially since the whole point of Talia in this run is to give angst to Damian’s backstory and portray Bruce as the superior parent compared to her (and don’t let me get started on King’s proud-ex-CIA-agent ass and HIS racism)

So yeah, unless they plan on using another character as the big bad of the movie, which I don’t see happening, because what other character has personal ties to both Bruce and Damian and can be used as an antagonist other than Talia? Then the real Talia is gone forever, she will officially never escape Morrison’s character-assassination (at the very least, they can change her drugging Bruce to her faking a miscarriage like in the original comic, since that part is not REALLY important to story, but I highly doubt it....)

Then we get to Damian......look at all the words Gunn used? Do I need to say more? Some people are actually excited that he claimed that Damian is apparently his favorite Robin, but looking at the way he described Damian here its clearly evident that he likes him for all the wrong reasons, which I would argue is worse than hating him and that he doesn’t understand his nuance or any of his best qualities.

I can already predict what he will do with his character: he’s gonna go look for the whitest White boy in the world, cast him as Damian, immediately drench him in hair gel, then have him act as the most arrogant, stuck-up, obnoxious, disrespectful brat imaginable which in turn will influence the comics to reset his character to that again for the 574th time in a row (and of course you will have fans of other characters going ""look at Damian always being favored by DC per usual!!" without realizing that this is basically a death sentence to his character forever)

Some argue that this is how Damian’s character started out like before he started his development so its alright and to that I say: 1- even in the beginning, his character wasn’t this exaggerated and he still had some redeeming qualities 2- his development happened in a slow and steady pace in stories that mostly had no Bruce 3- he started out as Dick’s Robin and had already established a relationship with every Batfam’s member as well as his place in Gotham City before he got to spend any time with Bruce, which is something the movie will obviously skip.

Also the keyword here is "development."

The problem is that so many people, including Gunn, can't comprehend that Morrison’s Damian is supposed to be Damian at the very beginning of his development, in their minds, Morrison’s Damian is "default" Damian who acts like that all the time and Gunn’s might like Morrison’s Damian just the way he is, so I don’t see him bothering to develop Damian’s character nor do I believe that he has enough time to do so in one movie (lets be real its not like they will dedicate several movies for Damian’s alone) and as an already overly-hated character who constantly get portrayed as a brat that needs to be humbled, a movie based on his fist appearances is the last thing he needs right now.

It will just reaffirm what his haters think, that he was always a rude brat and he will always remain a rude brat and again, this will unavoidably influence the comics to reset his character (which is something the comics have already been doing constantly without the influence of a big blockbuster movie) to the characterization of his first appearance for the millionth time.

Like I said, this is the worst news I have ever received regarding these characters, I know I’m always being dramatic whenever I don’t like the treatment of Talia and Damian, but this is probably it for me. If this movie happens (and I pray it gets canceled/changed to something else in these 3 upcoming years) and it ends up being as bad as I think it would be, then I will probably lose all interest in DC as a whole, my standards were already at rock-bottom, but even I wouldn’t be able to enjoy their characters anymore at this point.

#damian wayne #Talia al ghul

[krikriscomiccorner]

And here we are just before Tuesday ends with another review for some DC drops this week! Batman 101 set us up for some hopeful, different content as the run progresses... Nightwing brings the true return of Dick Grayson, Justice League continues on with the Death Metal tie-in, Robin King is a wacky wild tale of that murderous menace, and Teen Titans was just... well... The letdown of the month. No wins there for anyone.  (As always, all posts on my tumblr relating to blog posts will be tagged KKCC for your convenience in locating the “friend” links -- because Medium charged a premium unless you have that special link!)

#seriously dc could not have done worse with teen titans #lets talk comics #dc comics #batman #nightwing #dick grayson #teen titans #damian wayne #jon kent #justice league #robin king #kkcc

[leonicscorpio]

What your favorite Member of the Bat Boys Says about you: WILD ACCUSATION/ROAST EDITION.

(also disclaimer, this is meant to be a joke. If you send hate I'll only be mildly amused and then contemplate whether to share your hate or delete it based on how much traction I think it'll earn me. I understand these are a lot of y'all's comfort characters but considering the fact no one throws more hatred and criticism against these characters than the fans themselves. I figured why not join in.)

Dick Grayson

You are either inconceivably horny on main for this man, usually stemming from a childhood attraction to him from Young Justice, Teen Titans if you're old, or the Batman and Robin movie if you're even older, and also gay.

Or you're a puritanical hypercritic who wants to burn down DC Comics if they have one more character comments on his ass in a way that would make Frollo from The Hunchback of Notre Dame call you an extremist. AND you're also horny as fuck for him on the DL.

You call yourself the mom friend and secretly hope everyone else will call you the mom friend, but the only person whose life is falling apart worse than yours is Dick Grayson under Devin Grayson's penmanship.

You somehow find a way to hate and nit pick every detail of a comic of one of the most consistently written characters in DC (and that's saying something) and I don't know whether to compliment you or look mildly aghast.

It applies to all the bat boys but how's your relationship with your father? Answer the question. I said answer. The question.

Jason Todd

I have yet to meet a single person who says Jason Todd is their favorite Bat Boy and they weren't some combination of 1. LGBTQIA+, 2. Below the age of 30, or 3. currently dealing with some form of mental trauma/illness.

I understand that a lot of y'all are bitter and upset over the fact Jason had the setup to be the perfect villain to Batman, one who could even outpace the joker. But hearing y'all complain about his characterization every. single. time Jason even makes so much as a cameo is like watching someone trying to mop the Titanic.

Oh, you hate Scott Lobdell? That's a very agreeable opinion nowadays considering all that he's done. By the way, there's a rather large collection of JayRoy and Jaytimas reblogs on your Tumblr dash, can you tell me what that's all about?

As hypocritical as it is for me, a Jason fan with Jason as their profile picture, if someone doesn't tell you that they think Jason Todd is a genuinely awful person after they tell you Jason Todd is their favorite, that's not a red flag, that's literally the most direct metaphor for someone pointing a gun at your face and telling you to run.

Tim Drake

How's the victim complex my friend? No seriously, as much as I love Tim all of the bad things that have happened to him as Robin happened because he fucked around with being Robin and found out that his family was killed because of it.

You either are a brand new infant to the fandom because Tim came out of the closet back in August (although we've done been known for literally decades now) or you've been with this fandom so long that it's self cannibalism and toxicity completely doesn't phase you anymore.

I'd argue that Tim fans are the least toxic of all the fans of the Bat Boys only because DC Comics, up until recently, kind of hasn't touched Tim all that much, so people have kind of shoved him to the wayside.

That being said, the literal shipping wars this literal fuckboy of a vigilante whom everyone swears is their small uwu precious string bean has caused is on par with the ALTA/LOK/V*ltr*n Fandoms.

Damian Wayne

So you hate how people write Damian and you have a literal fight response anytime anyone criticizes Damian because he's a minor? Tell me how's your favorite Damirae/Damijon fanfiction? Answer the god damned question.

I'll give Damian fans their credit because at least 90-95% of them recognize that yes, Damian is a child, but he's one of the most horrific and abjectly abhorrent assholes to ever be written into comics (but that's also a large reason why you all like him)

To the 5-10% who think Damian is their perfect precious murder baby who has done nothing wrong, how does it feel to know you are objectively worse than even the Jason Todd Stans/Kinnies?

I haven't met anyone yet who is a Damian fan/someone who says Damian is their favorite who wasn't chaotic. And not the good kind of Chaotic.

I also have seen someone issue actual death threats to an artist over a characters skin tone exactly 3 times through fandom, for SU fans, for V*ltr*n, and for Damian Wayne.

Duke Thomas

I don't understand how you, a Duke Fan, have stuck with this fandom for so long considering I think he's appeared in like 2-3 canonical comic runs, but like good on you for making the most of it.

Understandably you all are the least problematic of the bunch because again I think there's maybe 2-3 comics where he's featured.

I guess my bigger concern is do you exist? If so would you like to be perceived as a Bat Family fan? Are you sure? Are you certain?

#jason todd #batman #red hood #dick grayson #nightwing #tim drake #robin #red robin batman #duke thomas #damian wayne #i woke up and chose chaos

[yicruz48]

Teen Titans Review: Annual #2 Part 2

August/26/2020

Part 1

This again pushes the narrative of Damian as the angry aggressor with no self-control nor a ability to be conscious of how his own actions hurt other people.

I am not denying that Damian hasn’t been extreme before or has a temper but if written correctly he would have enough awareness to feel guilt for what he did to Emiko and not act so aggressively towards Bruce.  

This is another section of the issue that I feel conflicted about how to feel about this for several reasons: 

-> The things Damian says in these panels aren’t all false : 

I wouldn’t be sincere in this review if I didn’t acknowledge the truth to Damian’s comparison. In the last two years real time the Wayne Manor has become a sort of coffin and tomb. A manor that only carries the echoes of those who used to live there. 

After a while, I could imagine it would be distressing to visit the Manor because it would remind them of the people who weren’t there anymore. 

-> I fear Anti’s will look at these panels and try to justify Damian as a bad person:

I asked my older brother (Who doesn’t know much about comics besides the bit I tell him) to read the interactions in this issue and give me his opinion on them. 

“To me it feels like the writer is trying to show Damian is conflicted and not in the right headspace therefore showing him erupting into a fight with Bruce violently but...I can definitely see how someone who doesn’t like Damian could turn this narrative against him.”  

And I agree with him. As much as dislike these direction in writing for Damian, I do see what Thompson was trying to do here (and since the beginning of the run). It hasn’t been executed well, but he has been trying to get the reader to sympathize with Damian (more than Glass that is). 

And I believe it is trying to show that Damian is at his wits end, not thinking right-well-I mean-Damian hasn’t been thinking right in TT since 2018, but I guess he’s really not in the right headspace. 

But I have the same fear that my brother mentioned, if you look at these same panels through the same lens of someone who doesn’t particularly like Damian you look at this and think is horrible. I can already imagine what they’d say:

“Look at how badly Damian treats his father!” 

Although your supposed to look at this as Damian having a outburst after keeping in it for so long and not being emotionally-neglected by his father.  

“Alfred’s death was hard for Bruce too, Damian needs to stop acting like he is the only one who is hurt.” 

Even though Bruce is an adult and Damian is a teen(a severely-damaged one at that) and you know...BRUCE DIDN’T COMFORT DAMIAN AFTER ALFRED DIED...

And this further expressed in Detective Comics where Damian causally mentions that he is surprised that his father contacted him. 

Like...um...Damian is a 13-year-old boy...are you really telling me Bruce hasn’t contacted his own underaged son especially after Alfred died? 

“Dick just got shot and lost his memories. He didn’t die. Why is he acting like he died?” 

I talk more about Damian’s and Dick’s relationship here. 

But to put it simply, Dick is one of the only people Damian trusts to be vulnerable with. Damian is extremely independent yet depends on him the most. This is expressed many times in the beginning of rebirth (specifically in the Nightwing and Batman comics). Losing that connection is extremely damaging to Damian.

Moving on, I actually appreciated this scene with Crush. I happy that she kept the group from intervening between Bruce and Damian. 

With the track record of how “great” the Teen Titans are at handling situations them getting in the middle of the fight would’ve made this worse. 

Plus I liked that she recognized that this was something personal. So far, I’ve felt like the majority of the Teen Titans have antagonized Damian and it felt refreshing to see Crush realize that Damian’s actions are more personal than they thought.  

But at the same time, I don’t know how to take this. I feel like they also wrote this in order prop her up to be the new leader in the next issues so at the same time it feels a little insincere.  

I already said this in part 1 of the review but I am grateful for the decency DC or Thompson had to give us some personal reasonings for his actions, but again, it doesn’t work as a good trigger nor does it hold the same hype it would’ve if written earlier when it happened, not months after it happened.

One of the only things about these panels that I have to say is  that I saw some people theorizing on twitter that perhaps Damian was expecting to be punished by his father because of how his other brothers have been treated by Bruce. But I really don’t know myself how to interpret it. 

Why is Damian questioning why Bruce isn’t fighting back? 

-> Was he expecting Bruce to punish him? 

-> Was Damian expecting  his father to challenge his new beliefs?

Because Bruce doesn’t really challenge Damian’s beliefs at the end, if anything, it seems like Bruce gives up trying to reason with Damian. 

Which is sad if you look back to this panel in Batman and Robin 2011:

Jumping back on track, and then we have this panel: 

Which is yet again another panel that I feel conflicted about. 

I guess it’s nice Bruce finally told his son that he loves him, but also it’s a little to late now. Bruce should’ve expressed compassion to Damian when he had the chance, and he had a lot chances to do this: 

-> On his 13th birthday.

-> By being more involved in his life. 

-> When Dick got shot to remind Damian he had someone there for him despite Dick not being there. 

-> When Alfred died in front of him. That was most likely traumatizing for him, would’ve been nice to have someone there to comfort him. 

I feel like I keep repeating myself, but again, this four pages are difficult to interpret. 

 “Everything...lead...to...THIS” 

-> I’m taking this as Damian concluding that being Robin (and everything that encompasses including the no killing rule) lead to him losing people he loved and eventually not being Robin.

“You will never truly see me so long as I am in your shadow.”

-> Damian thinking that Bruce won’t take him seriously if he is Robin? 

-> Thinking that Bruce won’t ever truly see who he really is if he is Robin?

“Now I am finally free.”

-> Damian implicating that being Robin was a burden and/or restricted him from doing what he thinks is “right?”  

As a Damian stan the last four pages were the most painful to read. Seeing Damian leave the Robin title frustrates me soo much. 

Conclusions and Predictions:

-> This issue was not as bad as I thought (but still bad): 

For one, I am glad Bruce didn’t beat up Damian. 

I am glad they had the decency to give Damian more personal reasons to go down this path even if it was late. 

-> (I’m gonna start talking about the art more in my reviews) 

Pansica is a very talented artist BUT I personally don’t think he was the best choice to draw a comic with teens. The adults in this issue were drawn great but I feel like drawing teens is not his strong point. 

There was points in this comics were Damian looked unpleasant and I think it was because Pansica tends to be very detailed although a lot detail does a disservice to drawing teens. As a artist myself, I lay off the details when drawing children since it often ages them more if you put more detail. 

Maiolo’s colors are good. I don’t know if it was a conscious decision or not but the dullness of the color really emphasizes the darker vibe of this issue. 

-> Thompson didn’t fail me this issue, he still manage to make me hate Roundhouse more than last issue :)

He also really pushed that unnecessary Emiko X Wallace ship in the middle of this issue. I think the bothers me about this relationship is that they gotten closer because of Damian killing. I really don’t vibe with that.

-> Bruce just suddenly offering a hug after giving Damian death stares at the beginning just confuses me. 

-> Teen Titan’s didn’t ever take Deathstroke go and basically let him go unless he’ll be appearing next issue. 

-> So far Damian sucks as being a villian/anti-hero, he failed both at killing KGBeast and Deathstroke. 

-> Hate that once again, most of the blame was thrown at Damian.

->To Damian, being Robin was the best thing to happen to him.  

It allowed him to see the mistakes in his past(that he was made to do) and work towards becoming a better person...in other words, it granted him an opportunity to redeem himself. 

Not only that, but it granted him the opportunity to honor the people who helped him become a better person (Dick and Bruce).

And even Damian felt like he needed to “prove” that he could be Robin because I think even Damian felt like he didn’t deserve it or wasn’t good enough. 

What this comic has done with him is atrocious and will always be no matter the outcome. 

I have a petition related to Damian here. I would appreciate it if you shared and signed. 

#Damian Wayne #Robin #Respect Robin #Save Damian Wayne #Batman #Bruce Wayne #anti bruce wayne #Deathstroke #Slade Wilson #Teen Titans #wallace west ii #Kid Flash #Emiko queen #red arrow #nightwing #dick grayson #crush #roundhouse #maya ducard #Alfred Pennyworth #dc comics #comics #yicruz48

[cryptocism]

ive been scrolling through ur blog for a while (cuz ur dc opinions are Top Fucking Notch) and i saw what you said abt bart in tt 03 and f:fma and while i totally agree (it killed tt 03 for me lol) im super curious abt how youd do his development if given the opportunity?

I’ve been thinking about this one like A Lot so buckle up this is long: 

it would kind of depend? On whether or not he’d be in an ensemble team like Teen Titans or with his own solo series. 

I understand metatextually why he became Kid Flash in TT, since they needed him to be more mature and a more recognizable character and having him upgrade costumes/codenames is a good shortcut for both. But I’ve already talked about why it didn’t sit right with me. 

So, lets flip the script a little bit - the start of TT would be largely the same. Our boy Bart is on the new Titans team, and things are kind of awkward after YJ disbanded, also Max is gone and Bart’s relationship with Wally is still not doing great. Things are rough, Bart has newfound doubts to deal with, especially now that the world seems to have gotten harsher and everyone seems to have a lot less patience to deal with him. The pressure to be more mature and a recognizable character is coming from other characters now rather than an authorial need: he’s reminded to take things seriously, or that he should know better by now, that he needs to slow down and think more. So Bart decides a change is necessary, and we get the library scene. He reads all the books, he reappears as Kid Flash, saves Tim via bullet catch, disassembles a gun, takes down Slade, etc. etc. Here’s my departure from canon though: it doesn’t work. 

Kid Flash is not a solution, or a magical cure for immaturity. Reading a whole library so he’s miraculously smarter and more mature and capable is, at its core, a pretty naive conclusion. And it makes sense he would think that. But it doesn’t work. He’s still impulsive, distractible, hasty. He can’t put a lid on his own sense of humor. People still think he’s annoying or lazy or careless. And he keeps trying - he knows all this stuff now, he read a whole library! - but he’s still apparently too much the same person as he's always been. And even though he’s trying very hard to live up to the Kid Flash name, it still doesn’t feel like him. Wally doesn’t like it, since Bart is literally just imitating him now, which makes things between the two even worse. And Bart keeps worrying about what’s supposed to come afterwards, since “Kid Flash” is inherently temporary, and while Impulse was only peripherally related to the flash legacy, Kid Flash comes with expectations. 

Bart is trying very very hard to be ‘grown up’ and ‘mature’, but he hasn’t actually learned anything other than a bunch of facts (which are still useful, but) he’s just trying to be who everyone expects him to be. 

And this is what i mean about the ensemble thing, because this arc would be in conversation with the rest of the core four, who are also trying very hard to be people they’re not, but all in different ways. Bart obviously with the codename change, but Cassie, Tim, and Kon all have similar issues, they’re all trying to imitate people. 

Tim is doing his Batman jr. routine, reverting back to the persona he had at the start of YJ. He’s cagey and mysterious and does questionable things without telling anybody, because he’s de-facto leader of the team again, and he has to be better than he is. No more kid stuff, the Titans are serious, he has to treat it like a job, not like a sleepover. And this whole act is putting distance between him and his friends. 

Cassie is trying her hardest to put herself in a support role. Donna’s gone and she has some big shoes to fill (she and Tim could probably bond about that if he weren’t stubbornly trying to brood at all hours of the day) and she’s doing her best to just Be Donna. Cassie and Tim would work better with their team roles swapped, and they both sort of know this - Cassie is naturally charismatic, thinks on her feet, can maintain good PR, and when she’s confident in herself is great at leading. Tim is partial to planning ahead, secrets, and keeping in the shadows, and is better at being a confidant and emotional problem solver among the team (when he allows himself to be open among friends, that is). 

But they’re both trying to fit themselves into what they see as pre-ordained roles: Robin is leader, Wondergirl is a supportive mediator. But Cassie’s got a temper and little patience for people being idiots, and Tim’s not predisposed to spotlights. 

Kon on the other hand has a story that’s less about who he should be and more who he shouldn’t be. The Lex Luthor dad storyline is here (minus the mind control shit, although the threat of it is still brought up) and Kon is doing his level best to do nothing that could be interpreted as something Lex might do. While everyone is doing their best to Not be their own person, Kon has no idea if he ever was his own person. He’s questioning everything he does, wondering if it’s some kind of evil gene showing through when he’s angry or petty or selfish. He’s going through lots of clone angst. 

So they’re all dealing with expectations and who they are or aren’t supposed to be, trying to fit themselves into boxes that don’t suit them and then convincing themselves that this is how it ought to be. Kon ought to avoid feeling or acting in any negative light because any sign of Luthor is a sign of evil, Cassie ought to tone herself down and act like Donna, Tim ought to step up and lead the team and act like Dick, and Bart ought to listen better and be smarter and slow down and grow up and do his level best to just Be Wally. 

Throughout the issues they’d all get a spotlight on their various crises, taking them through complimenting character arcs. Kon would realize through a couple close encounters and chats with ma and pa and talks with his friends and citizens of metropolis that nobody is all good or all bad. Clark can be a real asshole sometimes and Luthor’s actually done a fair bit of good (usually in his own interests, but still we’re gunning for nuance). Turns out he doesn’t have a dark side to be tempted by, he was made from 50% complex person and 50% complex person, just like everyone else. Which means he isn’t destined to be the next Superman, or Superman’s next supervillain. He’s just like, a person. With his own thoughts and feelings that have nothing to do with genetics. 

Tim would wear himself out and hide it from everybody until he killed himself, but it’s only when he sees Cassie also wearing herself out too that his ‘somebody needs somebody’ instincts kick in and they’re actually able to talk about how miserable they both are. Through some trial and error they’re able to figure out a good co-leader system for leading the team, having each other’s backs along the way, which allows for them both being able to help out the other members of their team with their own shit i.e. Kon and Bart’s identity issues. 

Bart is, like Cassie and Tim, wearing himself out trying to be this perfect version of Wally that never actually existed. He actually hates the recognition the new name gives him, because people have expectations for him now, ones he can never seem to live up to. He’s bad at following orders still, which makes him a pretty shit sidekick for Wally, in fact he’s just pretty shit at being a sidekick in general. But, he reasons, he’s supposed to be grown up and responsible now, and responsibility is all about doing shit you hate until you die, so he’s probably on the right track. 

It’s only later, once he gets some support from his friends, who help him deal with things like Max and YJ disbanding and stuff that he’s able to actually sit down and have a heart-to-heart with Wally. Wally confesses that he understands the pressure to live up to a legacy, and how he did his best to just Be Barry when he became the flash. In fact while Bart was trying to live up to Wally and be a good sidekick, Wally was trying to live up to Barry and be a good mentor. Wally’s the one to tell him that Bart’s always done his own thing, and is at his best when he does. They both agree they suck as partners, but maybe they should’ve tried to be family first. And there’s probably a racing metaphor in there somewhere because speedsters love their racing metaphors. 

ANyway Bart returns to Impulse, forging a new path, getting along better with Wally now and hanging out with him just as civilians with no pretense. He learns some valuable lessons about how maturity can’t be learned in a book, and that he’ll get it himself the more he lives and learns from experience. The Titans all get along better now that they’re all sure of their places in the group, and they can all go on just being themselves without worrying about expectations or roles to fill or whatever. 

...If Bart still had his solo series instead though, id actually want it to go in a sort of different direction? The thing about living up to predecessors and trying to be some ideal version of another person works well for the Titans because they can all deal with a similar issue in different ways, but I think it would also be interesting to do the complete opposite. 

Lots of shitty things happened in very quick succession in Bart’s life that he had no control over: Max’s disappearance, having to move in with Jay and Joan (who are nice, but whom he barely knows,) leaving his friends in Alabama, Young Justice breaking up… Basically, things kind of suck for Bart, and all he wants is for them to go back to the way they were. Instead of trying to be grown up or mature or whatever, Bart is resisting every single encroaching thing about coming adulthood. Because all growing up ever seems to mean is that everything changes and either you have to leave the people you love or they have to leave you. 

So this series would focus mostly on that, both in his civilian life; going into high school, not knowing anybody, the few friends he does make are less interested in ‘kid stuff’ and more focused on dating and interpersonal drama, high school itself seems to be geared entirely toward the “what are you going to do with your life” question, when he visits his old friends back in manchester, they’ve all kind of grown up without him. And in hero life; everyone from Young Justice is trying to move on and not talking to each other, his father figure and mentor is gone and he's not really jiving well with the rest of the flash family, and people just seem to have less patience for Impulse now that he’s older. 

Growing up is hard. It’s hard and no one understands. Especially not when you’re also a superhero and have dealt with some quality trauma like losing loved ones and feeling yourself die. So it makes sense that Bart would resist that in every way possible, do his best to pretend like everything is still how it used to be, for once in his life just trying to make everything stay put. He refuses to get rid of his old stuff, he doesn’t want to treat any villainous threats seriously, people in school keep talking about college and jobs and tuition fees and Bart wants none of that, he acts out, refuses responsibility, gets reckless under the pretense that he never used to have to be cautious. 

And this is the part where I’d bring in Inertia, cause Thad was robbed and I want him to have an actual arc that doesn’t end with infant-splosion. Also he can have a good ol companion arc to Bart. Welcome to foils everybody, where two identical boys with opposing life experiences get to thematically compare and contrast with each other as they deal with the trials and tribulations of growing up. 

So, I’m ignoring every appearance Thad ever made after Impulse 1995, picking up instead where his story left off where he swore vengeance on his creators and disappeared into the speed force. And he’s off to do exactly what he said; Thad Thawne II is going to kill his namesake/grandfather/creator - the president of Earthgov. 

But, turns out assassinating the president of a whole fucking planet is a lot harder than he thought - Thad has planned extensively for every moment of his life, so once he starts going off script things predictably go a little off the fuckin rails. Thad fails, obviously. For one because despite how much President Thawne might deserve to die, Thad at this point hasn’t done anything worse than attempted murder, and making him a killer would put a wrench in any kind of redemption arc he could have. Also he’s acting on rage, in a highly emotional state, basically going up against the entire government. Of course he’s going to get caught by the science police and brought into custody. 

Bart, meanwhile is jumping with both feet into any kind of escapism he can find, which involves various time travel shenanigans and lands him in the 30th century. He gets to reunite however briefly with his mom, but the mission he had gets derailed by the appearance of Inertia. 

Every time Bart and President Thawne interact, the president always seems to make a bid to sway Bart to the Thawne side. This never works, which is part of the reason Inertia exists in the first place; a version of Bart that the president could control. When Inertia landed in the 30th century, hell bent on assassinating his creator, the President subdued him and eventually coerced him back over to the Thawne side of the family feud. No longer a rogue agent, Inertia is back to his old self, all about destroying Bart and the rest of the Allens. 

They have a battle, taking place all over the 30th century city, and Bart does his best but Inertia has the entire Earthgov police force on his side, and Bart eventually gets captured. He gets taken to some kind of holding facility, meets with the President who monologues as him while Inertia stands beside him like a good lackey. Then suddenly the speed-inhibiting cuffs or whatever Inertia had put on Bart to stop his speed malfunctions, and Inertia drops the act, now Impulse and Inertia working together to take down the Earthgov people holding them there. 

Turns out as soon as Inertia knew he couldn’t take out the president, what with all the military force President Thawne had on his side, he bided his time until he could. He uses Bart’s help to finally get President Thawne cornered, and the assassination plan is back on track. Except now Bart is the thing stopping him. He makes the argument about how murder bad. Heroes don’t kill, etc. Inertia insists he isn’t a hero. But Bart reminds him that that’s not how Max saw him. 

Inertia hesitates just enough that President Thawne is able to get away, and now the two of them have to make an escape attempt back to the past. Bart insists on trying to take Meloni with them, and they try but ultimately fail somehow (maybe someone has to stay behind to make sure they can make the trip safely, idk. At first Thad is willing to stay behind, since there’s nothing really for him in the past. But Meloni knows that President Thawne would destroy him if he did, and she can’t let harm come to either of her sons - and she does consider Thad her son, just like Bart. She’s had far too little time with either of them, but she loves them all the same. She tells them to take care of each other, and is the first to encourage them to be like, actual brothers.) 

After yet another tearful goodbye, Bart swearing he’ll find a way for them to all be together again, Bart and Thad go back. And they do end up having to lean on each other, because shit’s tough for the both of them. Thad initially wants to apologize and possibly reunite with Max and Helen, and then finds out Max is gone. And Bart has someone who understands exactly what he’s going through. 

Things get a little more lighthearted from here. Bart and Thad don’t get along well at first, since they’re both going through rough times and lots of changes and their first instincts are to lash out at each other. But eventually they form a sort of camaraderie through shared grief, then shared fish-out-of-water experiences. Which evolves into shared inside jokes and video games and comic books and they become slow but steady friends. 

They upgrade into brothers when Bart defends Thad against the repeated (and not entirely undeserved) suspicion he receives from the rest of the Flash family. Jay and Joan take him in, but it’s clear they don’t trust him, and neither does Wally. Bart stands up for Thad, arguing that he’s as much of a Thawne as Thad is, and treating Thad like he’s the next Cobalt Blue is just going to ensure that history never changes and stupid family feuds are forever. After this, Thad starts trusting Bart a little more, and kind of solves Bart’s problems regarding encroaching adulthood with his friendship. Neither of them really had a childhood, and Thad hasn’t experienced 21st century life at all, much less the societal expectations to grow up. So Bart gets to have fun again, and Thad won't judge any of his games or his books or his attitude or interests for being childish or lame because he’s fascinated by the experience of anything regardless of the target audience. 

And from there it's a series about these two becoming brothers and growing up and the different lessons they learn and wacky characters they meet along the way. Thad ironically also puts Bart in a position where he has to take on more responsibility, since even though Thad can imitate heroic actions and is actually pretty good at it, he doesn’t understand what makes them heroic. Bart has to draw on a lot of the things Max taught him and now has to teach them to Thad. 

There’s crossover comics with Superboy, where Bart laments about having to deal with grown up stuff, and Kon gives him a new perspective on the whole “being young forever” thing, since that was a reality Kon actually had to deal with and it sucked. 

Through various misadventures they meet new and familiar characters to give them different perspectives on the whole passage of time thing. Villains who despise children or childish things, villains who embrace it but probably too much. People who talk about growing up as the worst time of their lives, others talking about it like it was the best. Kids and adults alike trying to force Bart and Thad to act a certain way while treating them another. 

The two of them come to opposing conclusions about this; Thad wants to embrace change completely, partly because he wants to experience firsthand all that life has to offer, but also his worldview depends on believing that anyone can change, and anyone can be better, because he has to believe he can be redeemed for all the shitty stuff he did. Bart, on the other hand, knows his life isn’t perfect but thinks, based on recent events, that it’s all just going to get worse from here, and so resists change as much as possible. 

Thad, in his haste to experience everything, sometimes ends up going too far, either burning both of them out, or pushing them into situations that they’re not ready for or are ill-equipped to handle. Bart, on the other hand is so resistant to change or responsibility that he stops them from doing actual necessary things like planning their futures or doing chores or making new friends. This acts as the crux for their main conflict that slowly builds throughout the series, and then in a finale to the arc, they both figure out a way to get Meloni back to the past, and to raise some stakes they have a falling out in the middle of the mission about it. 

Bart accuses Thad of trying to leave him behind, or trying to be the better version of him again, and that old insecurity about Thad replacing him crops up. Thad thinks Bart just can’t handle anything outside his personal bubble and wants to force him to live in the real world. Plus he also feels kind of abandoned by Bart, who often would leave Thad to do the scary adult things on his own. 

Tensions still high, there's suddenly an external threat to deal with - probably president thawne and the science police - and they attempt to continue arguing even while fighting the president. I’m making this up as I go so lets say yada yada big climactic moment it's looking like the two might fail to get Meloni back and they’re both still angry with each other and Bart just… can’t take it anymore. 

He keeps losing people, and the ones he keeps he always seems to screw up with. And at the end of the day he’s just a kid who wants his mom. Is that really so much to ask? So there’s a reversal, a parallel, if you will, of the assassination attempt from the beginning of the series, this time with Bart. Or, because I don’t think many people would buy that Bart would actually ever for real kill someone, maybe he’s finally about to get his mom back, but she doesn’t want to go (since she made that deal with the president that he wouldn’t harm anyone of the Allen family so long as she stayed with him) so he’s trying to force her, risking the lives/well-being of the entire Allen bloodline across all of time. 

This time it’s Thad who has to talk him down, who has to remind him about being a hero, who has to remind him that trying to go back to some magical time in the past where things were better is just going to stop him from learning and growing as a person, and that doing anything and everything possible to get there is just going to lead to Bart doing something he Actually Can’t walk back from. 

Alright but here’s the thing because having Bart be forced to leave his mom again for like the billionth time is tired and overdone, and personally the whole message about heroics involving extreme and damaging amounts of sacrifice can only go so far. So here; Thad and Bart are both right. 

Like on the one hand, yeah, it’s childish and selfish for Bart to want to be with his mom at the expense of literally everyone else in his family. On the other hand, the fact that they can’t be together because some asshole is upholding a stupid grudge is bad and unfair and wrong. The issue needing to be fixed is not the kid who wants his mom, it’s the jackass keeping them apart (and who also wants to kill/imprison people). So Bart convinces Thad that they have to save Meloni, and Thad convinces Bart that there has to be another way - one where they get their mom back and the Allens don’t have to be hunted. 

The whole story would be leading up to the two of them coming to this conclusion; the healthy middle between the two extremes. Where they have the maturity to plan ahead and sort through their differences and figure out the best course of action with the least amount of collateral, but they don’t let go of that adolescent need for justice and fairness - that thing that makes you dig in your heels and say “no. That’s not fair, that’s not right.” 

SO here’s where I’d put the title card: “Bartholomew and Thaddeus Take Down The Government”. How do they do it? No idea! I’m flyin by the seat of my pants here! Do they run for office? Do they publicize the president’s crimes in such a way he gotta go to jail? Do they somehow turn public opinion against him enough to get him out of office? idk!!! And I don’t remember enough about Earthgov’s political situation to put an accurate read on what exactly they might do to disrupt it. 

Either way they don’t kill him, manage to free their mom, and they all go back to the past together. And a new arc would involve the three of them getting settled in the past; Meloni would be a main character now, and hers is a two-pronged fish out of water story where she’s trying to figure out how shit works in the past, with overtones of the struggles of being a single parent. 

And... I’m not going to say any more about that because this is long enough already oof. 

TL;DR I think a coming of age story would be cool for Bart, and having to deal with growing up when he never really had a childhood. Also the comic itself would be aimed at younger audiences, who can probably relate to having a Bad Time in the Teens and wacky hijinks with friends and siblings.

#soapbox #anonymous #asks

[animalpetcel]

Jason Todd and Ships & My feelings on them

(Because a friend dared me to)

JayRoy: I used to ship it, but then I read up on Roy’s post reboot personality and history and I felt too weird about it to continue (But DickRoy looks nicer now)

JayKyle: I read their Search for Ray Palmer series with Donna. The potential is there, but they never interacted beyond that so I don’t have strong feeling for it (Also I love ConnorKyle more)

JayEddie: The two are supposed to be friends & penpals, but beyond that one crossover story they had in Blue Devil #19 & Eddie’s comments in Teen Titans (2003) #42, they haven’t talked about each other or interacted at all. Since DC doesn’t care enough about Eddie to develop his relationships with Blue Devil, Rose Wilson and Jason, this ship remains a rarepair, though if DC decided to use Eddie instead of Roy for New52 RHATO, JayEddie would have eclipsed JayRoy & JayKyle in terms of popularity

Batcest ships: Disgusting. Adopted families are real families.

JayTalia: Also disgusting, she’s his mentor figure, the mother of one of his brothers and is around Bruce’s age. It was a bad idea all around.

JayHelena: Huntress has been stated to like gentler men and is working harder to be a better, non-murdery hero so people who say that they have a lot in common are ignoring Helena’s development and personality to turn her into the “girlfriend heals boyfriend” cliche (which I hate)

JayHarley: Bad idea. Not only does Harley have Ivy, but the only thing those two have in common is the Joker. I seriously can’t even imagine how this would even work

JayBabs: Again, the only thing they share is the Joker connection, and if people hated New52 RHATO because they felt that Lobdell was trying to turn Jason into Dick, JayBabs being canon would just make things worse

Jaysabel: While I have nothing against Isabel Ardila, I have to agree with others when they say that she’s a nothing character. Other than being a reference to Death in the Family, Lobdell has done little to make her stand out against other popular civilian love interest (ex:Linda Park, Iris West & Lois Lane) or even convince the audience that we should support their relationship. I even forgot that she was present in the Alien arc of New52 RHATO and she hasn’t done anything noteworthy in Rebirth RHATO. If Lobdell leaves and DC decides to continue RHATO with a different writer, unless some miracle happens, I have no doubt that Isabel will be forgotten.

Jaytemis: At the time I’m writing this, Jason x Artemis is still a rather new ship, maybe a little over a year or two since we learned that they’re even into each other. I again don’t think that Lobdell did a good job at setting up this relationship, as many RHATO fans before the kiss believed that the were strong friends, and afterwards, I’ve only seen a handful of RHATO & Jason fans support the idea of their romantic relationship, and many (me included) would rather they remain strong friends. It feels like Lobdell is coasting off of Wonderbats fans to support this ship instead of really working on making a believable romance, and I’m not positive that the relationship will start to pick up more traction even after Artemis & Bizarro return. However, while I’m not hopeful that Jaytemis will become a mainstay in Jason’s canon like Dickori, Dickbabs, Timsteph or *cough* Timkon *cough* there is a chance that if another writer wants to continue it after he’s finished, that it could become another mainstay Batship

Update: Upon learning that Jaytemis is Editorial mandate and Lobdell doesn’t actually care for it, I know understand why it feels so forced to me. Yeah, I have no idea if they’ll keep trying to make it happen after Lobdell leaves, but I don’t have a lot of confidence in it.

JayKara: with almost every prominent Batfam member having their own alien (often Kryptonian) friend. (Dick & Kori, Tim & Connor, Damian & Jon and Babs & Kara again) it was only a matter of time until something like this happened. However, I prefer Kara’s more friendly interactions with Barbara, and as of Rebirth, Jay’s kryptonian is (at least for now) a Bizarro clone named (?) Bizz by fans, though who knows if this (at the time of this post) current RHATO team of the Dark Trinity will become a mainstay for Jason’s life outside of the Batfam

JayKorr: Jason x Rankorr (Jack Moore). Mirroring JayKyle, but Rankorr’s philoshphy as a Red Lantern, as well as his storyline revolving around controlling his own rage and need for vengeance, these two can have interesting interactions if they were ever allowed to seriously interact. Jack Moore could be Jason’s boyfriend & reluctant superhero, since Moore does have a desire to be “normal”

JayAugust: If you’ve seen my Twitter, you’d know that I’m one if the many Godspeed fans who want him to crossover with Jason. Often called the “Red Hood of the Flashfam”, August’s belief that killing is a valid option when dealing with criminals, need for revenge since his brother’s murder, and troubled relationship with Barry given a different in the two’s morals (and Barry’s unwillingness to let August go on a Black Hole massacre/August believing that Barry isn’t using his speedster abilities to their fullest and would rather Barry step out of the way to let August do his job), draws some nice parallels between him and Jason, especially when it comes to their troubled history with the mentor figures. And given that every former Robin has their own speedster (Dick=Wally, Tim=Bart, Damien=Wallace), giving Jason one that fits his morals and way of going after criminals (at least pre-New52) would make the most sense.

Honorable mentions go to:

JayBunker: I’ve only seen two people ship this, but if Lobdell was finally allowed to expand the Outlaws (in a podcast interview he mentioned that Bat Editorial has rejected all of his attempts, which is why Rebirth RHATO is full of temporary team-up & why the Creeper is considered to be an Outlaw despite not showing up often and refusing their offer) and decides to make Miguel a more permanent member (and age him up a teensy bit) than I can see it

JayRose: Some believe that this would be the best canon option for Jason, but they haven’t interacted enough for me to be convinced that they’d be the best fit for one another. They’d be really close friends though if not lovers

Bizzjay: This makes me uncomfortable because canon has stated multiple times that Bizz is mostly inexperienced with the mentality of child (before he temporarily became more intelligent, and who knows if that inspires a change in their dynamic until Bizz & Artemis return is issue 40)

Redcrux: After reading Jasontod’s post, I can imagine it clearly and it sound really soft, funny, energetic and cute, the exact way that I like my ships. If RHATO was ever to reintroduce Crux as a full-time Outlaw (and maybe have a retcon were it was another alien like Lobo instead of Starfire indirectly responsible for the crash), I’d love to see him and Jason get closer

#jason ships #red hood ships #jason todd x eddie bloomberg #anti batcest #anti jaytalia #anti jayharley #anti jaybabs #jaysabel #jayisabel #isabel ardila #jason todd x artemis grace #jason todd x kara danvers #jason todd x rankorr #jason todd x jack moore #jason todd x john moore #jayaugust #jason todd x august heart #august heart #jaybunker #jason x bunker #jason todd x miguel barragan #jason todd x rose wilson #bizarro x jason todd #richard grayson x roy harper #jayeddie #redspeed #jaykorr #jayroy #jaykyle

[whetstonefires]

Hey so random ask but, I see a lot of people calling Tim drake sexist, I personally don't think he is but what are your thoughts on that.

Oof. Okay.

Technically I can’t just say he’s not, because as the product of a sexist society he, like any other dude and to a lesser extent any person, has got some passive sexist attitudes baked in there.

It tends to surface in things like, when he went on that first big solo adventure when the Robin comic launched, that started in Paris? And he wound up hunting King Snake with Lady Shiva and this one rogue federal agent, a black man, and he got very decisive. Shiva says something cutting about white men, and she has a point, in that if either of his adult companions of the moment were also white men Tim would probably have been somewhat more conscious of the fact that he was thirteen.

That unconscious prioritization that DC’s sexist narrative tends to favor? That is sexism, and also racism, and it’s valuable to draw attention to it, though not, I feel, to blame it all on Tim because quite often he hasn’t actually done anything, the universe around him has just colluded to make him look good.

(Of course this doesn’t happen much anymore, but back when he was the Main Character it did. Comics is a sexist community in a sexist culture, so of course Tim got some of that muck on him.)

But most of the accusations you see going around are about tearing him down on Steph’s behalf, and that’s...murkier.

Because honestly Tim is less sexist than most of the men in his profession. Significantly less so than Bruce or Dick. I literally cannot imagine Tim talking about a loved one the way Dick used to talk about Kori, or a new acquaintance the way Dick did a lot of the one-episode women from his ‘90s Nightwing solo series. He wasn’t bad to them exactly, he was honestly very normal and probably above average, but the incredible, controlling arrogance and casual sexualization is still hard to get through, sometimes. Almost more so for how much more it comes out when he’s talking behind their backs. And Bruce...well, Bruce and gender is an entire deal I’m not going to try to unpack here.

And I cannot see Tim ever using ‘girl’ as an insult, the way Damian does.

Tim’s interactions with the ladies on Young Justice, for example, tended to be a lot less emphatically gendered than Dick’s interactions with the ladies of the Teen Titans, or even Bruce’s in the Justice League, though there are fewer women there and less casual interaction.

And to a considerable extent this was because the passage of ten years had modernized writing norms, and to a considerable extent this was because his demographic was younger than the Titans and therefore less sexualization was expected of the writers. Young Justice built on some stuff Marvel had been doing with young teams and broke some ground that Marvel has built on even further lately. (Seriously what is with Marvel’s young team books lately they’re incredible.) But there was also that Tim as an individual cares less about gender than most of his family.

(In some ways Jason may care even less, but he also leans really hard into performative masculinity and thought flirting was a reasonable way to interact with older women as a teenager, and he’s been being written by Scott Lobdell for ten years even if I have a hard time thinking of that as canon, so his data is mixed.)

Or take the case of this young freedom fighter (/terrorist) who happens to wear Robin colors, who Tim meets at one point in Europe. Dava. The story creates situations where Tim gets a weird mind-altering stimulant transferred orally to him by Dava, and then from him to Shiva when he’s giving her CPR, and Tim rather notably doesn’t have a single narration box or speech bubble that treats these as ‘kisses’ that he has somehow benefited from obtaining.

Later he crawl-drags Dava’s knocked-out-by-Shiva body out of the middle of the bloodbath Shiva is now staging, because he’s in no state to do anything to stop it, which he hates, and while this is certainly the comic arranging things to put Dava in a damsel status relative to Tim, Tim does not at any point frame it that way.

He is really good about not disrespecting Dava, honestly. It’s an interesting storyline partly for that reason, though it’s not the only time it comes up.

Tim was constantly meeting Troubled Young Women who could kick his ass and whom he respected considerably in most senses, but whom he was able to convince that their particular approach to violence was somehow flawed and needed to be re-thought. Thereby allowing there to be Strong Female Characters but keep the balance of the world in order and not worry the readership, by placing the male lead in a subtle power position even if he had gotten his ass kicked.

It was like. An entire genre. Tied to the way Shiva kept popping in as Incredibly Terrifying Supporting Cast.

This was a major way DC was using female characters in and immediately after the 90s and tbh in some ways it was more progressive than what they tend to do now, even as certain parts of the framing set my teeth on edge.

(Compare ‘Tim on drugs manages to hit Shiva hard enough to take her down because she didn’t expect lethal force from him so he has to do CPR’ to the more recent Red Robin story where we spend a couple of pages with him laying out to her face how she came to town to fulfill a contract on him but he brilliantly out-thought her and she ate the drugged chocolates he sent her so He Wins. Bleh.)

Steph stands out for hanging around instead of being a one-off appearance, and for not really rethinking her life in response to Tim much at all, while also not being a villain.

The crux of the issue is, Tim slid into talking down to Steph on a semi-regular basis, especially when trying to get her to stop vigilante-ing, which he’s getting backlash for some twenty-odd years later, mostly by people blaming him for her narrative deprioritization because it’s more satisfying than blaming DC.

And a major form this takes is declaring him generally sexist.

And the thing is, I’m sure his unconscious view of himself as more competent to make judgment calls because Main Character Demographic did play into the way he approached those conversations! I have never met a dude with any self-confidence whatsoever for whom that wasn’t a factor. Sexism, like racism, is the air we breathe, you have to actively extricate yourself from it and even then it will crop up at odd moments.

Classism played into it, too--especially once he knew she was a C-list villain’s daughter; there was that sense that often crops up in Batman properties that not only does greater access to resources make it safer and less self-destructive for the moneyed class to go vigilante-ing, noblesse oblige means it’s also somehow more just. The old ‘the outsider has a more objective approach’ canard. This was even more subtextual than the gender stuff, but I’m sure it was there.

Intellectual elitism is sort of a subset of both that and gender issues--Tim knows he’s smart, it’s the core of his pride, and Steph is not as smart in the same ways and has not had the same educational opportunites, and there are definitely moments of high-handedness tied to this.

And then there was the territorial aspect; it was official Bat policy to discourage all other Gotham vigilantes, usually in a much more absolute and commanding way than Tim ever tried, not to take them in and train them.

That might have been an option for Bruce if he’d wanted to, but it wasn’t really on the table for Tim unless he wanted to stage an intense campaign to totally disrupt his own life in order to bring this person who introduced herself by hitting him in the face with a brick after he mistook her for a villain into private Bat training and spaces. They’d known each other for a while and been having this argument in various forms most of that time, before they ever dated.

Please also remember that the last time Tim wanted to take a troubled blond under his and Bruce’s wings and show them the ropes and make sure they could do this safely as part of a personal healing process that would help everyone, that person took less than a week after starting to show signs of instability to have a complete psychotic break, beat him into the ground, build a brick wall in the Batcave to keep him out, lock down the computers, and start killing criminals with the knife-hands he added to the Batsuit, while failing to prioritize civilian safety.

This was not that long before Steph’s debut. If I were Tim I would not trust myself to sponsor further new team members either!

All of these things besides the Azrael trauma are directly from Bruce, who is often way more emphatic and more of an ass about them. Robin was mirroring Batman (consider the way he talks to Selina sometimes egad, sometimes it only doesn’t look awful because she’s playing along) and following Bat-policy; it is totally nonsensical to hold Tim accountable for this and not Bruce.

It’s also important to note that Tim wasn’t significantly less condescending to Anarky or the General, who were white guys around his age with roughly his class background whom he was trying to talk out of villainy, and honestly Lonnie’s motives were baller. (The original Anarky was a hacktivist based on a design somebody drew up for the third Robin, but Tim got made instead.) Tim’s entire character design back to his first appearance holds that when he’s trying to talk someone into something he tends to fall into a lecturing approach.

This can be very annoying! The first time he did it to Nightwing he got grabbed and shaken and snarled at. And of course it’s worse when he’s talking down a demographic slope, rather than up one.

I am very aware of how fucking annoying it is when guys do this, even if it is their normal mode of interaction. I have come very near to punching faces over it, when it’s really bad.

Tim doesn’t usually approach that line, but the problem is his writers didn’t seem to know the line was there, so if you’re reading some of his interactions with Steph from the perspective of having that chip on your shoulder already, especially if you’re not immersed in the narrative’s assumption that he is The Main Character, especially now that language norms have shifted slightly so wording that was considered neutral in the 90s is now obnoxious, it can ironically make a deeper impression than the much more blatant and decided sexism going on all around him.

So that’s my take on the situation. Tim has some mild passive gender prejudice which he has never taken enough notice of to seriously compensate for, made more visible by being in a deeply sexist world and by being kind of an annoying person sometimes, and this has been blown wildly out of proportion by people who feel that he and Steph are in competition to be The One Who Was Not An Asshole in that relationship.

This is not a winnable competition. They were both assholes sometimes, and even if you could prove Tim was a terrible boyfriend/person it wouldn’t validate all of Steph’s behavior--she was often forced to behave very badly or stupidly, because back then one of her major narrative functions was as a stick for the writers to hit Tim with.

And the thing is. If you’re going to exculpate Steph of awful behavior because it was ‘just’ the writers being sexist, let alone let Dick off the hook on similar grounds, I think it’s really unfair and messed up to then turn around and hold Tim-the-individual accountable for sexism that mostly wasn’t even situated in him so much as baked into the narrative, though to his benefit.

Like. When sexism (or other -ism) benefits people in real life it can be useful to draw their attention to their systemic advantages if they seem not to get it, but drawing Tim’s attention to his narrative prioritization would be extraordinarily meta (lol somebody write that fic). And in neither situation is it productive or fair (though I do know it is so so tempting) to treat the very existence of someone’s privilege as an offense they have personally committed.

They literally cannot help that. That’s how systemic works.

#tim drake #sexism #comics #robin #batfam #ask #i have spent a ridiculous amount of time on this ask yikes #posting as-is without further revision #hoc est meum #calypsosposts

[smokedcapybara]

looks like my exhausted rambling isn’t over yet but this time I’m gonna talk about Tony Stark and why I hate the direction the MCU went (aside from Black Panther, Gaurdians of the Galaxy, and Ragnarok - but why they’re exceptions might also be touched on)

so, a long while ago I talked about how Young Justice and Teen Titans has been exactly what I needed when I first moved to Bellevue - I would imagine the heroes watching over me, making sure I was safe, or coming to whisk me away so I could join them and become a hero myself

I started watching the MCU movies around the end of middle school/beginning of high school and Iron Man, for me, couldn’t have come into my life at a better time

firstly, my first introduction to superhero movies was the Batman Beyond trilogy which was exactly the opposite of what I needed and almost enough to turn me off superhero movies entirely

and then I saw Iron Man, which was so completely different - it was funny and hopeful and bright - but also... well

around that time I’d constructed a mask to hide all my negative emotions - all my pain and anger and fear, everything caused by the abuse I’d suffered in Texas and my mom and brother starting to lash out more and more - and this mask, well to me it looked an awful lot like Tony Stark’s

and that was what I needed, I needed to see myself in him, to have the reassurance that I could move on from my past and become a better person, that I could have happiness, that no matter what others might think or see neither my mask and what was under it made me an irredeemable person

for the whole first half of the MCU I latched on to Tony, him and Loki were my favorite characters because they represented the two possibilities of what I could become - the positive and the negative, and even the negative didn’t look all that bad once you scaled it down to a small, disabled human from the powerful, magically talented god

(I also liked Loki because it was like they’d taken all my own family issues and lain them out in a way that anywhere I looked in the fandom I’d see people indirectly supporting me through their support of him)

I also liked Bruce, Clint, and Natasha, and all the side characters, they were all relatable in small human ways that I was very fond of

Thor and Steve I struggled with though

for about three years - the three years I lived in Texas - my mother was married to a bodybuilder name James, he was abusive and because of this I was traumatized and spent up until recently automatically scared of any large muscular man

sort of a ‘they have to prove they’re not to be scared of instead of the other way around’ kinda thing, and unfortunately Steve and Thor did not do that in those first few movies

so I projected heavily on Tony and tried not to let my trauma color my opinion of Steve and Thor too much and trusted that Marvel would handle their main characters as well as I was used to from things like, for example, Teen Titans or Young Justice

Age of Ultron was difficult but it had some good Clint moments and the ‘language!’ running joke was fun - I was torn up at the loss of Jarvis, of course

and then Civil War came out

they took the character I projected on and one of the characters my trauma made me somewhat distrustful of and pitted them against each other and somehow, miraculously, I sided with Steve

of course I sided more with healthy communication and talking things out amongst themselves before they take sides and start splitting up but unfortunately there wouldn’t have been much of a movie if they’d done that, would there?

and then

and then, Steve admitted to knowing who killed Tony’s parents and not telling him sooner and got upset at him for being upset

I’d managed to get past my trauma enough to recognize that he was mostly dedicated to being a good person, I’d even managed to get past it enough to side with him over Tony for the better part of that movie

but watching that fight, especially the end where Tony was laying there defenseless, was almost like being retraumatized - having the association of large muscular men as violent and dangerous rebranded into my brain - and the letter he sent at the end pulled up all the less physical aspects of James’s abuse

and so Steve was firmly associated in my head with all of that stuff from my past, and it made it so hard to participate in fandom where suddenly everyone was picking a side and declaring one or the other completely in the wrong

and those who like Steve or believed his side was right decided anyone who liked Tony, or disapproved of how Steve handled the whole situation with Tony’s parents having been murdered, was a terrible person and should be torn down for liking him, they reduced Tony to his mask and declared that he’d never be able to make up for his past - called him heartless and more

and those who supported Tony were just as bad

and there was no room for someone who supported Steve’s argument against the accords but was against his actions in the Hydra base(I don’t remember where it was, I watched the movie once and refused to ever watch it again cause it was too triggering for me)

and while the rift in the fandom has softened, its still there - everyone seems to either hate Tony or hate Steve

and those who dislike Tony have had more and more good reason to as the series has gone on and it hurts

because at some point he stopped being a beacon of hope for me while still being too connected to me

in fact, it’s almost like him and Loki switched places with Ragnarok and everything

(here’s where we touch on why Ragnarok is so much better than most of the rest of the MCU, and is in fact my #1 favorite MCU movie)

by the time Ragnarok came out I had lost my main fictional source of hope for myself - I’d only ever found two characters I related to in that way and on that level: Tony and Loki (there have been many other fictional characters I’ve related to but all either on much smaller scale or just in wildly different directions)

and Tony was quickly becoming worse than what Loki had represented for me, my hope turned sour, my mask indistinguishable from the truth, I was a little lost

I distanced myself somewhat from the MCU fandom, I just couldn’t handle it, it hurt too much

and then I watched Ragnarok

Thor was goofy and ridiculous and silly and a definite hero but in an almost washed up way - like his time had come and gone and come again and he was gonna grab it with both hands while it was there but not take it too seriously this time cause he knew better, y’know?

and that was exactly what I needed to get past the ‘big muscular man’ trigger to see him as a whole Good Person and absolutely love him

and him and Loki’s interactions were exactly what I needed right at the cusp of a change for the better in my relationship with my own brother

and by the end of the movie Loki was happy and accepted and understood (and gay, can’t forget the gay subtext) - while still being himself - and that was definitely what I needed

and then Infinity War and Endgame came out and I still haven’t watched either of them yet but I don’t need to and I don’t want to because I’ve had enough spoiled for me to know that nothing good would come of it

and it makes me so sad and angry

Marvel took this series, these characters, that was so important to me at such a difficult part of my life, that I was so dedicated to for so long, and essentially threw it all away, trashed it, ran it into the ground so thoroughly that I decided not to watch any more unless it’s, like, a Black Panther sequel - and that mostly because black superhero movies need to be supported so more will get made cause they’re important (and because Black Panther was good but, I mean, I feel like the rest of this post does a good job explaining that one movie being good doesn’t mean it’s sequel will be or that you should watch the sequel so the representation aspect makes more of a difference for me rn)

and all because... what?... cause they decided drama and conflict was more important than their main team being a team? cause they didn’t want any spoilers leaked so they lied to their actors? because they were more motivated by making money than telling a satisfying story? cause they forgot not all their watchers are cookie cutter carbon copies of each other and all relate to different aspects of different characters for different reasons?

because they forgot that because this series might be a child’s first introduction to the concept of superheroes they have a responsibility to protect and nurture that child’s faith in the world? that’s the responsibility you take upon yourself when working with those characters, any superhero characters unless your story is undeniably adult oriented, and you need to remember that

superheroes are supposed to be our hope that maybe things can be better, maybe we can make a difference, that’s what got Marvel and DC big and they need to do better to remember it

(I liked Black Panther because it was very emotionally impactful and visually stunning and had great characters and representation - so many different important woman characters as well as most the characters being black! - and just overall was, like, the ideal movie)

(I liked Guardians of the Galaxy 1&2 because it was easily separated from the rest of the MCU in my head and it was fun and funny and leaned very heavily into found family which is my jam and it had an A+ soundtrack and Groot was adorable and amazing and Drax was very autistic coded in a Good way, also Gamora and Nebula gave me similar sibling feels to Thor and Loki which is important to me)

#mcu #marvel #tony stark #iron man #capybarambles

[lydiaandarry]

{The Murder of Alternative Character Design}

Hello there!

    My name is Arabella, but you can call me Arry if easier. You may be looking at the title and feeling a bit confused by it. “The Murder of Alternative Character Design” may be quite a confusing title and leave others wondering what the hell it even means. But that is why I am here to spread awareness about this horrible phenomenon that is going on in recent pop culture. Especially with superheroes. ‘Alternative Character Design’ to me is when a character (usually a superhero) looks different from the traditional standard of the type of character they represent. I can name quite a couple of alternatively dressed superheroes who get made into more traditional wear or boring wear in their live-action debut. So let’s invade the topic!

(The poor costume design recently...)

    I don’t know if you have noticed but the quality of costume design and the importance of comic accuracy has lowered in demand. It seems now like live-action adaptations of a comic book character just throw whatever they can to seem “different” or “out there”. Yet it murders the costume design to begin with. Recently in “Birds of Prey”, one of my favorite DC female characters ‘Black Canary’ has had her main outfit leaked on set. And there are no fishnets to be seen or a bodysuit or anything that represents the character in the comics. I personally love Black Canary for that reason with how different she looks and how she isn’t afraid to wear leather, fishnets and reveal skin, things that could be seen as hooker-ish. She rocks and makes it look stylish and badass. Yet in Birds of Prey, it seems like they went for a more ‘preppy’ approach where nothing about her screams ‘Black Canary’ but perhaps the colors. Even then, black and yellow in DC and especially to non-comic book readers just screams Batman. Netflix recently released a show called “The Umbrella Academy” and I don’t really know much about the comics except that it was created by My Chemical Romance babe Gerard Way who I grew up listening to his music. Even after they broke up. It saddened me to see the complete difference from the comics to the actual live-action adaptation. The art is nearly killed with the inaccuracy as Allison Hargreeves doesn’t have her awesome purple-blue hair. Klaus didn't have his awesome skull shirt, ouija pendant necklace and signature bright orange hair. Diego’s long, blond hair is completely disregarded despite the lack of longer hair on dudes in superhero shows. All of this is disregarded for a more preppy, modern and “up to date” look that kills the character design that made the comics look so different in the first place. And it’s Gerard Way’s creation for crying out loud! He was part of an alternative group! They didn't look nearly as normal as the people in the show look. Even Klaus looks normal compared to how these people used to look. It’s changed for diversity and relatability to other characters but where’s my representation? Where’s my second personality’s representation? And this isn’t just on DC’s end. Marvel does this as well with my favorite X-Men character, Kurt Wagner, a.k.a Nightcrawler. Who seriously wore a Thriller jacket in X-Men Apocalypse. It was the worse outfit I have ever seen on Nightcrawler. Nightcrawler in the comics is basically Gothic. He wears dark clothes, looks kind of scary to the point where people fear him on a daily basis, and has hints of red here and there. The usage of color in Kurt’s design is usually creative and done justice. Now I could understand if they were going for a more X-Men Evolution Kurt but even then, the outfit was better and Kurt is rarely seen as blue in that outfit because when he is blue, it is shown to hardly work with being blue.The colors don’t go well with his skin. Also, his personality is a lot different to X-Men Apocalypse’s but we are talking about character design not writing. And can someone please show Legion FX how to dress punk people? Don’t say David Haller is punk when you hardly dress him as punk.

(Why is this an issue?)

     So, why is this an issue? You may ask me when reading this post. They’re characters, Arry. They aren’t always going to be comic-book accurate. Why are you so upset over all of this? As an artist, to me, character design and clothing choices is just as important as personality. Appearance is the first thing you see of anyone and it can say a lot. You express yourself through your appearance more than you think. When creating a character, I always make sure that I have the character design down pack. It’s my favorite thing to do. I am not against preppier clothing or modernizing things. I understand that this is something that has to be taken into consideration when taking a character and placing them in live-action. There are some things that are too difficult to carry over. But why make a live-action adaptation of something if you are not going to use the version that everyone who reads the comics is familiar with? What’s wrong with having abnormally colored hair? I get that diversity is a hot topic right now and it’s amazing that everyone is getting representation in one way or another. But diversity goes deeper than just skin tone. I have never seen a true alternative like character outside of cartoons that was done right. And I have tons of favorite goth girls in cartoons (Gwen & Crimson from Total Drama, Sam Manson from Danny Phantom, Mandy from The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy, Triana Orpheus from Venture Bros, Jinx & Raven from Teen Titans, The Hex Girls from Scooby Doo, Rogue from X-Men Evolution, Joan of Arc from Clone High, Marceline from Adventure Time, Marie from Ed, Edd, and Eddy.) the list goes on. These aren’t characters you see in live-action though. These aren’t female characters that are even considered in live-action or even superheroes for that matter. And comic books are incredible for the reason that you don’t have to conform to normality. You can make any character you want. That’s why we have such unique characters in comic books and even in cartoons. Justice Friends has a colorful witch named Miss Spell and Valhallen is a metalhead. This is one of the many reasons why Neil Gaiman has been picky and harsh over making his Sandman comics into live-action because Sandman features so many subgenres of styles. Goth and punk, mostly. These characters aren’t represented in live-action adaptations. They are forgotten about or normalized. Kurt Wagner is a background character and they still couldn’t dress him how he is in the comics. The Umbrella Academy normalized its characters a lot in clothing choices. And it’s sad. There are people who dress like this and should be able to see themselves in at least one superhero. Kurt Wagner teaches us that not all goths are gloomy and depressed or dangerous. He’s a goth with a pure soul and good heart. Sandman comics make Death and Dream and Delirium seem normal, like they don’t have to change to be liked or good-hearted. They are who they are. The Umbrella Academy basically showed that you could wear abnormal costumes, have colored hair, have longer hair for a dude and still be an awesome superhero. X-Men has tons of abnormally colored hair characters that rarely make it onto the big screen, they are usually brought to small screen like Blink and Polaris in The Gifted. And in Legion FX, the most evil and villainous character is a punk. David Haller is not a good person on Legion nor can he be considered an anti-hero anymore. He is a despicable being with a god complex. Punks already get the bad rep of being dangerous, angry, and mean-spirited. Do we really need a character in mainstream media to be punk while also had killed multiple people and raped his girlfriend? That’s not progressive, that’s moving backwards. Superboy doesn’t even have his leather jacket, leather gloves and black circle sunglasses anymore with his undercut. He’s just narrowed down to a tee shirt and jeans most of the time.

(How can we change this issue?)

     I am not exactly sure. I know it seems kind of lame to like… bring up an issue and then not offer a solution. I feel like the best way to fix this problem is to hopefully notify costume designers that the world is in need of different styles. Their designs are not “out there” or “different”, as the comic book characters designs were already out there and they completely changed them. I am a huge judge when it comes to costume and character designs in live-action adaptations and I may make a post on why that is. I feel like we need to open our eyes to newer looks. To give some representation to those who dress differently from others. The issues that I brought up are already done and over with. Bad representation for punks as evil and villainous. The Umbrella Academy normalized every character, even Klaus. And hopefully Marvel can give us the Nightcrawler that we deserve as Fox no longer has the rights. All we can do is hope that this comic inaccuracy is a pasting phase and that creators will soon give the outcasts a voice and a chance for better representation. To stop being the villains or bad guys.

     This was a short rant that I felt had to be done and I had to explain some issues. I hope you enjoyed my post and agree with some points that I made. If you have any questions on the matter, feel free to message me. If you like this post and want to see more like this, feel free to follow our Tumblr! And if you liked the post, feel free to reblog and like. I post every Wednesday and Saturday! I will see you on Wednesday. Peace out!

#character design #characters #cartoon characters #dc comics #marvel comics #x-men #rant #the umbrella academy #birds of prey #black canary #superboy #nightcrawler #kurt wagner #alternative #alternative fashion #post #my opinion #my post

[theheavymetalmama]

Soooo...Jason Momoa told a little kid that Superman wasn't in Justice League because he was dead, DC is making a Superman Year One comic with Frank Miller as the author, they're making a two-part animated movie based on "the Death and Return of Superman," and rumors are flying around that Supergirl is going to be in Justice League. Oh, and the Justice League trailer dropped. Your thoughts?

That’s a lot to take it. Let’s start with the big one. New Justice League trailer!

Sorry guys, still don’t like it. Granted, it doesn’t look as bad as the previous trailer made it look, but it still looks massively underwhelming. Hell, the only character presented I even like is Wonder Woman, because she’s the only one who’s been established.

Well, established in a good movie, at least.

The rest consist of a Batman who belongs behind bars just as much as any of his villains and three other characters we’re meeting for the first time fighting a villain that nobody gives a shit about, which could be forgiven if the characters were interesting but again Batman’s an asshole and we don’t know anything about Aquaman, Flash, or Cyborg yet. And am I the only one who cringed at Cyborg’s line? Not the line itself, but the flat, robotic delivery. Good god, they took one of the most expressive and emotional live-wires in comic book history and turned him into Arnold from Terminator 2, but without the charm and charisma.

I’m also not looking forward the role the Amazons play, which appears to be them being in the movie for the sole purpose of Steppenwolf to kill/mop the floor with them. Yeah, take the place and characters everybody who watched Wonder Woman fell in love with and just wipe them off the face of the Earth in their second appearance. No way there’s going to be any backlash from that!

Honestly, I could write an essay’s worth of things in the trailer that irked me, but topping that list are these lines from Batman.

“Superman was a beacon for the world. He didn’t just save people, he made them see the best parts of themselves.”

Let’s forget for a moment that Superman has only been in two DCEU movies and you can count on one hand how many times he was shown in a heroic light. Let’s forget for a moment that Man of Steel and especially Batman v Superman spent more time hammering into audiences skulls that more people in this world are afraid of Superman than there are people who see him as a hero. And let’s forget for a moment that this Superman has spent more time feeling sorry for himself than he ever did being the symbol of hope the movies tried and failed miserably building him up to be.

Let’s instead take into account that these lines are coming from Batman. Oh yeah, Superman totally brought out the best in people. That’s why after the disaster in Metropolis, you took a deep breath, composed yourself, and reached out to him to see what he was really about before jumping to conclusions and-oh wait, no you didn’t, you obsessed over him for over a year and decided to straight-up murder his ass, you fucking hypocrite!

Seriously, what the fuck, WB? You spend two whole movies shitting on Superman, the people who love him, and his legacy, and now you’re trying to save face by saying that he brought out the best in people when you’ve only shown the BAD things that happened because he exists? Fuck off. No, seriously, fuck right off. You have to EARN that shit, which you fucking didn’t because you killed Superman before anybody could connect with him and threw the entirety of “The Death and Return of Superman” right under the bus in the last 20 minutes of a Batman movie! I honestly don’t know what’s worse. That Batman is being portrayed as a stupid and hypocritical murderous asshole, or that said stupid and hypocritical murderous asshole is leading the team that Superman is supposed to be the leader to!

Ugh, FUCK everything! But let’s move on, shall we? Frank Miller is writing Superman: Year One.

The very idea of Frank Miller writing any solo-Superman story makes my skin crawl. The fact that the same guy who turned Superman into Ronald Reagan’s personal attack dog who can’t read and raped Wonder Woman is retelling Superman’s origin story? Ugh. Just thinking about that makes me feel like I need to jump into a swimming pool filled with bleach and then get buried up to my neck in rock salt!

Let’s all just put aside that Frank Miller is a racist and misogynist scumbag who hasn’t written anything good since Robocop vs the Terminator. Let’s instead take into account that the man has been writing comic books for 40 years now and has written Superman several times, and every time he’s portrayed him as stupid, boorish, and incompetent while going out of his way to have Batman humiliate him in some way, shape, or form. Yes, I know, Miller has said that he actually likes Superman and only wrote him that way because the story was from Batman’s perspective and that he actually regrets writing him as a government tool, yeah, I don’t fucking believe him. He’s had dozens if not hundreds of opportunities to show Superman in a positive light and he’s never done it. He’s never done it before, so why would he now? The only time Superman has ever been portrayed with any semblance of who he actually is in a Frank Miller work was in Dark Knight III: the Master Race…you know, the one book in the series that Frank Miller didn’t write! Oh, but he wants to write part IV, so great, he’ll get to shit on Superman one more time before he either retires or his diseased liver and STD-ridden body do him in. “Oh, but Katie, he has cancer!” So? He’s still an asshole!

Well, that was grim. Let’s talk a little bit about Jason Mamoa telling a little kid that Superman was dead.

Okay, in the interest of fairness, I don’t think Mamoa had any malicious intent. I’m sure he was just caught up in the moment and wasn’t thinking straight, especially when he apologized to the same kid during an autograph signing that followed the panel. It was still a dick move on his part, but whether or not he gave it some thought, his fellow cast members told him “dude, that’s a little kid,” or his PR guy said “Look Mamoa, Warner has done a fine job of alienating Superman fans all on their own, they don’t need you helping. Now if you want to shrug off being typecast as an uncouth barbarian you’d better stop acting like one and say you’re sorry!” I’m glad he realized it was a dick move and took it back. I’m sure the fact that WB still wants to convince us that Superman is really dead wasn’t helping either. Speaking of which…

The Death of Superman and Reign of the Supermen are getting animated adaptations.

I have very mixed feelings about this one. On one hand, this was one of the stories I said deserved a faithful animated adaptation. Yes, some aspects don’t hold up anymore, but they can be worked around. This is also not the first time the story was adapted, as “Superman: Doomsday” was what kicked off the string of animated DC movies. But it was also very watered down and may as well have been called “Superman: the Clone Saga.” So the fact that they’re making a two-part animated adaptation should be good news…

Having said that, let’s get real. If they genuinely wanted to make a faithful adaptation of ‘The Death of Superman,’ they would have already. I can’t shake the feeling that the only reason it’s even being made is because Warner and DC realize that shoe-horning Doomsday into the end of BvS only succeeded in alienating Superman fans and they need to save face, not helped by the fact that the last animated solo-Superman movie they made, Superman Unbound, came out in 2013. Everything else since then has been either a Justice League movie or a Batman movie. Oh sure, Superman was in some of them, but the only one where he had anything resembling a leading role was in Justice League: Gods and Monsters…the alternate universe story where Wonder Woman is from space, Batman is a vampire, and Superman is the son of General Zod and his capsule lands on the US/Mexico border right as some refugees are crossing because apparently the writers felt that Superman being an alien just wasn’t quite on the nose enough.

Now I know what you might be thinking. “Okay, so maybe they didn’t make it as soon as you would have liked, but they’re making it anyway so what’s the problem?” The problem is the possibility that they’re making this not because they want to or feel that it’s a story worth adapting, but again just so they can save face for those of us Superman fans who felt alienated at the conclusion of Batman v Superman where the entirety of the story was boiled down to “Lex Zuckerburg creates Nuclear Man 2.0 and Superman gets stabbed to death at the end.” And a movie that nobody wants to make tends to be a movie that nobody wants to see.

That’s to say nothing of the fact that DC animated movies…well, they just haven’t been very good lately. Ever since their Flashpoint film, the movies have ranged from okay to outright bad. Justice League: War sucked, Son of Batman was obnoxious, Assault on Arkham was good but not great, Throne of Atlantis was a snooze-fest, Batman vs Robin sucked, Gods and Monsters was okay, Batman: Bad Blood had a good movie in it that was bogged down by the writers putting Batwoman’s story on the back-burner and insisting Dick and Damian arguing had to be on the forefront, Justice League vs Teen Titans could have been good if they didn’t put the least-interesting character Damian Wayne center-stage for no goddamn reason, Justice League Dark was hot garbage, Judas Contract was lame, and the less said about The Killing Joke the better.

In short…I hope it’s good, but given previous movies and the circumstance, I’m not holding my breath.

EDIT: Forgot about Supergirl apparently appearing in Justice League. I hope she kicks Batman’s ass. It’s long overdue somebody took Batman down a peg and I can think of worse motivations than “You got my cousin and only other member of my race killed,” as well as providing catharsis for Superman fans given he landed a grand total of two fucking punches in the title fight of Batman v Superman. Other than that, I don’t really care. Her inclusion can’t make the movie anymore troubled than it already is.

#Justice League #Superman #Wonder Woman #DC #Batman #Supergirl #DC animated universe #DC extended universe #DCAU #DCEU #Frank Miller #Comicon #movie #rant #please don't suck

[sweettsubaki]

When I read what Geoff Johns said about how they were going through the planning for rebirth,New 52 Green Arrow was specifically not supposed to have a goatee or black canary, so then he ask for goatee and black canary this time- I think superficial traits really is what they're working from. They want the characters to /visually/ resemble their old selves but they don't really care about anything more deeply analytical than a level 2 reading learner book. So for Tim: Steph, Staff, done.

About This

That’s true but….

Ollie in Rebirth actually DOES feel more like an AU version of his old self in that they didn’t just add symbols of his “old self” simply as a “Nostalgia Factor” but rather as actual symbols, reminders of how he could be and Then actually writes him getting into that but still following his own development. The current writer actually did manage to reconciliate his N52 self (If I remember correctly he started working on it in N52) to his preboot self and while it’s not perfect, it’s not amazing, it’s also far from bad. (Though I stopped a few issues ago I think it was issue #10 or #11). Not having the goatee at the time was because he was young again and in a different time and they wanted to use it as an excuse for a new image...My main issue is with how fast his and Black Canary’s relationship went…Other than that, they (even Emiko and Shado) still have a better development in those 10 issues than Tim, Steph and Cass have in Batman & Robin Eternal and ‘Tec Rebirth (Batman Eternal too but I stopped at issue #19 so I don’t feel comfortable judging it since it’s over now).

As for Tim… It’s long so read it under the cut

It’s sad because they actually HAD a way out. Lobdell, despite all his misgivings as a writer, literally wrote in Teen Titans #0 that Tim Drake was not his real name, without specifying what it was, gave him circumstances that made sure it could not be the same character (in addition to a vastly different Behavior/Personality). I’ve said it before and I will say it again, but I actually like the TT#0 Origin story (I mean this Tim’s an idiot but there was actual potential to develop him as a character which was lost in trying to give him Tim Drake props). While I still think that him becoming Bruce Wayne’s ward when under Witness Protection Program is kinda stupid, the ‘hiding in plain sight’ factor can still slightly work if he makes sure to not appear much.This was their way out and, while it’s not that good, it was still coherent (much more than whatever they’re trying right now, seriously Nozaki’s ideas are better options than what they’re giving us now in terms of Tim Drake) and Tynion deliberately chose to ignore it.Really, if they go with their “connections” thing, Tim had so many connections that he was kinda reconstructing, he had a pretty special place in the DC Universe (and I’m not just saying that as a fan, he was literally an oddball who got along with pretty much everyone EVEN when they thought he was crazy), it would have totally made sense for Oz to prevent Tim from jeopardizing anything by making sure he couldn’t form or help others form those bonds and have him captured or misplaced somewhere BEFORE N52. (Also I’m sorry, but out of all ‘Tec Rebirth characters, if they really wanted a symbolic relationship for Tim CASS IS THE ONE THEY SHOULD HAVE CHOSEN DAMMIT, not Steph)But then they retconned his Origin Story so that it’d “make him more like preboot!Tim” except that,as you said, they only changed a few details on a very superficial level. But, to be fair I partly blame the fans for that, because the fans mostly complained about the superficial parts. I remember it was always, “but Tim’s the Detective, not the Tec Support” or “Tim Drake has to be his real name”. But, while those can be valid points, those are details, and changing them didn’t make N52/Rebirth Tim more like preboot!Tim, on the contrary, it actually got N52/R further away from Pre-N52.For one simple thing, why did Tim become Robin ? There are 3 reasons that have to come together for it to happen, you take one away and then Tim has literally no reason to become a vigilante. 1. He has to be neglected by his parents : it gives him the time, but more than that it gives him the need, the want for a family and projecting this on Batman and Robin, making him care about them. 2. He has to have met Dick, be hugged by him and then see Dick’s parents die in front of him : While only seeing his parents die would still traumatize him for years, it’s having been hugged by Dick before hand that made it so personal for Tim (which I kinda tie to his emotional neglect), it’s what started his ‘obsession’, that’s how he recognized Dick as Robin, that’s how he started projecting on Batman & Robin.3. Jason Todd has to die (well really , Batman has to become reckless and Violent) : Because Bruce being violent is what coerced him into seeking Dick, but not only, it’s because he cared for them, they’re the people he projected his “family feels” on.And they’re all linked. You take one away, you take Tim’s reason to be a vigilante away. “Strangely” two of them, the ones that directly concern Tim (both things that gave him a “trauma”) are the ones that Lobdell took away. I don’t know if it was really done on purpose to show it’s a different character but it was there.And in the retconning those thing stayed the same. They just changed the few superficial details (and even then, because even if they made Tim do some detective work, it was still mostly as ‘the tech guy’). So now Tim Drake’s his real name only Drake was his mother’s name (seriously how stupid can they get for their WPP….Also how dumb is the Penguin ? That’s not hiding in palin sight anymore).

But this symbol thing is…They didn’t even chose the best symbol to represent him, because :1. it’s not his relationship with Steph that stands out, it’s his relationship with EVERYONE, Tim’s the one who was on good terms with most non-Batman approved vigilantes (and even some rogues). Because Tim was the Heart of the Batfam & Friends. Steph and Tim only got along for 2 years at most (and in a relationship for 1 year counting only their ‘on’ times)in his 5 years of knowing Bruce until the end of the preboot. They spent as much time not talking to each other since she first appeared than they did getting along.Anyway, Steph was kind of an example of all those relationships Tim made with the “non approved” AND the “approved”. But just having him date Steph ? Without the rest of the background ? It makes no sense as a characteristic other than “Bad TimSteph AU Fanfiction”.(Also there was no build up, when Tim was alive it was mostly a prop to sho how great he is and now it’s only for “feels”, there’s no substance and it’s so obvious I just can’t care about it, like Tim & Cassie in the Young Justice Cartoon have a better build up and their build up is just to stand next to each other for the few episodes they’re in)2. As for the weapon characteristic….Wouldn’t the redbird make more sense ? Tim fanboying over cars and bikes ?, Because those were pretty much the love of his life in the preboot, AND you don’t actually need a history for that choice (it probably still wouldn’t be well written because Tynion’s as bad of a writer as Lobdell to me…in a way even worse) which is not the case for the Staff which only make sense in a certain context but has no place with N52/Rebirth Tim’s history.

And I just….Even in their “superficial” character traits they’re so far from the character….

#DC Comics #Tim Drake #Stephanie #Brown #Tim Drake Meta #It's very hard to focus since I'm watching Hero Corp at the same time (I wrote 3 weird paragraphs before realizing they made no sense) #Anonymous