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oristian · 3 days

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ELUCIEN | GWYNRIEL — MAASVERSE SPOILERS

I tend to see posts and videos from a multitude of people who seem to be reluctant to accept foreshadowing in the ACOTAR books—specifically regarding the endgame couples to finish out the overall series. As this post is simply beating a dead horse down, I find that it is very much needed as a specific group of people lack the capacity to understand the books.

Foreshadowing is not meant to be obvious. There are, of course, cases where it is relatively obvious, but only within the parameters of back-to-back scenes. Foreshadowing is meant to be picked up on, but to be fully understand later on in the story when everything comes to fruition. Examples of foreshadowing include color descriptions, specific use of language, emphasis on certain scenes, emphasis surrounding specific objects, et cetera. If something happens obviously and you can read the scene as-is, it is not foreshadowing.

I see many people who ship Elriel claim that there is buildup across the entire series that foreshadows why they will be endgame. As the books do not support that claim, it is outlandish and a spread of misinformation. Allow me to disprove this theory using the books alone:

— 🌸 ACOTAR: Zero interactions between Elain and Azriel as Azriel had not been introduced as a character yet. This book highlighted Feyre surmising that Elain would thrive within the Spring Court, that her sister enjoyed typical emissary work, and instead introduced Lucien as a character.

— 🦢 ACOMAF: This is the first book where Elain and Azriel met, as is this is where many Elriels like to claim that the Elriel build-up begins. However, this book says otherwise. Elain and Azriel’s first meeting is neutral, quiet conversation to ease a tense situation as Nesta/Feyre/Cassian/Rhys were creating an uncomfortable atmosphere and Elain meant to ease it. This book highlighted how in love Azriel was with Mor and how Elain was engaged to Grayson. Many Elriels also claim that the color of Elain’s dress in this first meeting—being cobalt—is indicative of endgame between she and Azriel. However, cobalt is also the signature color of Grayson’s family crest. Their interactions die out after that first meeting and instead focus on Feysand again. The throne room scene in Hybern also showed the beginning of Elucien and their mate bond, while Azriel was on the floor reaching for Mor. (I go more into this on my Tik Tok page: @oristian)

— 🔥 ACOWAR: When Feyre returns to the Night Court after her month in Spring, she finds that Elain has been within a catatonic state for the entirety of that month and has shown no signs of recovering—that is, until Lucien came along. Elain began eating and moving around once he came and after tugging on the mating bond, her visions first started showing. themselves. Everyone likes to credit Azriel for most of this, but all that Azriel did (take her to the garden) was suggested previously by Lucien. Lucien, who was not able to be alone with her due to Nesta and Feyre. Next, everyone tends to say that Azriel “saw” Elain when he named her power. “What we need is …” Contradicts such a thing. Naming a power does not cure someone of their trauma. Lucien is also canonically the first character to take Elain’s visions seriously and went in search of Vassa, ultimately finding Papa Archeron and creating an even deeper connection into the Koschei plot arc with Elain. This is also where we get the iconic half-step on the stair scene.

Elain is now kidnapped by the cauldron portraying itself as Graysen—Elain wanting so badly to be with her previous lover. This is a scene where many Elriels claim that it is supportive of Elriel being endgame. However, it is within character for Azriel to save someone, especially people close to him. Certainly, Elain being appreciative of being saved and kissing him on the cheek is cute, but that is not enough “foreshadowing” for an endgame. Next, Azriel hands her Truth Teller after Elain refused other weapons. Elain is hesitant and only agrees to take it once Feyre chimes in that she will not have to use it. Juxtapose this with Elain immediately giving it back after the battle is over, not saying a word, and instead falling into conversation with Lucien. Lucien, who is canonically the only character to credit her for assisting with ending the King of Hybern.

— 🌨️ ACOFAS: This is the buffer book that was meant to do two things: Establish Nessian as the next couple for the following book, and establish a clear love triangle between Azriel/Elain/Lucien. Elriels use this book to drive the idea of an Elriel endgame. While this book has scenes between Elain and Azriel, there is unfortunately no foreshadowing present enough to support that claim. This novella emphasizes, from a conversation between Rhys and Feyre, that Azriel may be inclined towards Elain due to her having traits that may remind him of his mother (Freud). We also have Solstice where Lucien brings Elain a gift—a gift that fully reflects her interests—Elain brings Azriel a gift, but Azriel does not bring Elain a gift. Azriel even questioning beforehand if he has to get the sisters a gift at all. Elain’s gift being superficial and more of a joke than anything truly meaningful to them as a relationship.

— 🗡️ ACOSF: The book that ended Elriel. We have this book set up as PRE-BONUS CHAPTER | BONUS CHAPTER | POST BONUS CHAPTER. In the pre-bonus chapter, we have a few scenes between Elain and Azriel that is a glance, or a very small interaction. The infamous scene that Elriels like to use to “prove” that his shadows actually like Elain is the scene where Cassian says that Nesta upset Elain and his shadows seemed poised to strike. His shadows reacted to his anger, not to Elain. Next, the Solstice scene where Azriel refused to be within the room due to the mating bond between Elain and Lucien and Nesta seeing that he was interested in Elain—which is never brought up again, however we do get a scene post bonus chapter of Nesta encouraging Gwyn and Azriel by calling him the “new ribbon.”

The bonus chapter ended Elriel officially as endgame. The chapter is told from Azriel’s POV and documents his lustful thoughts of Elain and how he wants a mate, hurt and confused why his brothers had two of the Archeron sisters and the third was given away to another male. Rhysand even asking Azriel what his plans are after seducing Elain and Azriel having none “past the fantasies he pleasures himself to.” This is also a chapter where Elriels like to claim that Elriel is a forbidden romance. ACOWAR Rhys clearly objects to this being the case. (I have a video on my Tik Tok going over this @oristian) The bonus chapter then moves to Azriel finding Gwyn, his shadows not warning him of her presence at the HoW. His shadows are curious about her and dance with her breath. Azriel then finds out that Elain rejected his necklace—the only Solstice gift that he has gotten her, and one he expressed as “nothing extraordinary”—and the next morning finds him re-gifting such to Gwyn. Azriel can picture her eyes lighting up at the gift and he smiles—this is also where mate language is used to describe the spark in his chest at the thought of her and the glow of the thought. “A thing of secret, lovely beauty.” A line that was used twice—one to describe the necklace, and another time to describe the thought of Gwyn.

Post bonus chapter has zero interactions between Elain and Azriel. The interactions between Azriel and Gwyn are charged and witty. Energetic. This is also where we see Azriel’s siphons glowing darker at the thought of the Valkyries in the Great Rite—the first instance that this has happened.

Next, we go into the last two remaining plot arcs: Koschei and Dusk Court. Both ACOSF and HOFAS have set Nesta up as the driver for the Dusk Court arc, with Azriel as the character to follow. With SJM’s Bloomsbury contract slating her to have two more main books with dual POV romantic interests, the Dusk Court arc book would only make sense having Gwyn and Azriel as the FMC and MMC of that arc. The Koschei arc has been carefully crafted for Elain and Lucien to be the FMC and MMC of that book, with both of them being set up for this since ACOWAR. Elain with her visions of Vassa, the lake, and Koschei’s black box, and Lucien being tied to Papa Archeron and Vassa and the mortals. (I have a video on my Tik Tok that goes more in depth with this @oristian)

— SUMMARY: Elain and Azriel do not have multiple books of foreshadowing, a Gwynriel and Elucien endgame is not fanservice, and the remaining two plot arcs do not support an Elriel endgame. If you have any problems with that, take it up with SJM.

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acourtofmishapandmistakes · 2 days

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A little Rhys & Nyx for your Thursday evening :)

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acourtofelriels · 15 hours

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Elucien challenge: find a single passage from any of the ACOTAR books in which Lucien is referred to with Sun imagery.

#elriel #pro elriel #anti elucien #anti gwynriel #lucien vanserra #anti gw*nriel #anti el*cien #acotar #sjm

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darkest-fantasy · 2 days

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Elriels claiming that if Gwynriel/Elucien are canon that it will be fan service and character assassination.

As if sjm didn’t include mate language at the end of Azriel’s chapter. As if sjm didn’t purposely end that same chapter with Azriel calling Gwyn’s joy and reactions beautiful. As if sjm didn’t change the entire Sangravah attack so that Azriel was actually there and personally saved Gwyn. As if sjm didn’t have Azriel slaughter all the soldiers when he is known for keeping two alive for questioning.

As if sjm didn’t make Lucien the heir of day and the only thing Elain needed was sunshine. As if sjm didn’t make Lucien have so much trust and faith in his mate that he travelled to dangerous territory with no aid or army because of a singular vision. As if sjm didn’t already change Lucien’s mate from Nesta to Elain, and fully said that she couldn’t deny how well suited Lucien and Elain were instead.

But yeah.. it’s fan service.. definitely not two ships that have been foreshadowed through text.

As for character assassination? Yeah because Gwyn and Azriel wouldn’t bring out the best in each other? He is already more confident, secure, and at ease in their small interactions. She has become so strong and confident around him as well.

Because Lucien and Elain wouldn’t be compatible on every level? That the day court wouldn’t be the perfect place for both of them to grow and heal?

But yeah.. its character assassination

At this point, Elriels need to accept that everything Eluciens and Gwynriels talk and argue about is through TEXT. Sarah j Maas has given us all the evidence we need.

Don’t be shocked when it happens.

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xadenviolct · 1 day

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So, in regards to the post here that I just reblogged, I have some MORE thoughts:

Not only do I think the OP did a remarkable job explaining what has been my focus and my "reasons" for elriel since the beginning, but I just want to reiterate that.

There is conflict, there is world-building, there is epic love overcoming all else, there is (potentially?) political fall out...

There is so much STORY that can be done with this pairing.

If someone can please give me such story in any other ship, I'd be down for it.

Because where is the STORY in Elain with anyone else? (Because it's not going to be an Azriel-book. It's not going to be a Lucien-book. The one thing that we can pretty much BET on is that it'll be an Elain book, because the SISTERS have been the focus from the beginning. But I digress...)

So let's say it is definitely Elain's story. Feyre had hers in the first three; Nesta in Silver Flames; it'll be Elain's turn now. Seems fairly reasonable to make such a guess.

Tell me, honestly, what sort of story that would CENTER around ELAIN if the endgame pairing is Lucien? There is no conflict, there is no fall out, there is almost nothing for them to "overcome" in any way.

"Elain accepts the bond. The end." Very, very, VERY short tale.

But a story that would CENTER around ELAIN if the pairing is with Azriel? Boy oh boy do we have story!

Rejected bond and what happens because of it (DOES anything happen because of it?)

World-building and expansion of lore and whatnot (possibly tying in things we learned in other Maas-verse stories?)

A "love more epic than a mating bond" kind of pairing

The importance of one's choice, even in defiance of fate or gods or whatever other power

Political fallout from Elain and Azriel choosing each other--what does that mean with allies? What does it mean with Rhys? With Lucien? Does it affect the courts of Prythian in some way?

Etc. Etc.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

From a purely WRITING perspective, from a purely STORY-TELLING perspective, I cannot see it going any other way for Elain's story.

#ramblings of a mad woman #acotar #sjm #elriel #writing #storytelling #fantasy #fae #elain archeron #azriel

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the-darkestminds · 2 days

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A little disappointed in Azriel for assuming the worst about Lucien and acting like he’s a bad person undeserving of his mate. I honestly think they could’ve been friends if he’d made an effort instead of sneaking behind his back to be with Elain. They both grew up with abusive fathers and brothers. They both have mothers who were abused. They are both illegitimate sons. They were both unwelcome in their own homes. Maybe he isn’t aware of this? But I doubt that. Azriel plz have some compassion.

#sarah j maas #sjm #azriel #azriel acotar #azriel shadowsinger #lucien vanserra #Lucien #pro Lucien #pro lucien vanserra #acotar #acomaf #acowar #a court of wings and ruin #pro elucien #elucien #anti e/riel #anti elriel

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elrielffs · 2 days

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Imma say something...

Elain is my favorite character in ACOTAR.

I know people say we don't know much about her yet but what we DO know I LOVE. The baking, the gardening, what a good person she is, and her hope and the little tidbits we get of her inner secret self--the whiskey, burn in hell comment, and stabbing Hybern--that are also a part of her.

I can't wait to see her bloom in her book and come out of her shell more to the TRUE Elain. A rose WITH thorns.

And it's not that I relate to Elain, I relate to all the sisters in a way but I'm definitely not like Elain. I just think she's such a subversion in the genre and a breath of fresh air.

I do find it interesting that people who love Elain FIRST, mostly ship her with Azriel.

While people who ship her with Lucien, like Lucien first and maybe like Elain (liking Elain isn't required apparently but they need to be together for bby uwuficiation Lucien to be happy.)

#elriel #sjm #acotar #anti elucien #elain archeron #anti gywnriel #sarah j maas #azriel

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ally-writes-many-things · 1 day

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"Azriel's shadows formed cause of his trauma. I don't think it's a good thing that his shadows are out when he is around Gywn"

The only two people that his shadows are hiding from and one broke his heart (I'm not saying that it's Mor's fault. She doesn't owe Az anything).

While Azriel's shadows did come from his trauma. They bring him comfort and he feels safe with them. Them being out around Gywn means THEY TRUST Gywn.

Fuck off with the idea that if his shadows are out he's uncomfortable and doesn't feel safe when the text legit says otherwise.

#sarah j maas #sjm #sjmaas #acotar #a court of thorns and roses #acomaf #a court of silver flames #a court of mist and fury #a court of wings and ruin #acowar #gywneth berdara #gywnriel #azriel

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justthinkinboutbooks · 3 days

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Gwynriel Azriel and Elriel Azriel are not the same character.

That's why we can't agree.

Each side of this ship war has walked away with different interpretations of the shadowsinger and what he needs/wants.

Gwynriel shippers say he wants a mate more than anything.

Elriel shippers say he wants to be chosen more than anything.

Gwynriel shippers say his shadows disappearing is a bad thing.

Elriel shippers say his shadows disappearing means he's happy/relaxed.

And it makes sense that we walked away with such vastly different conclusions. We don't know that much about him. We are all working with limited information.

I'm sure there are many like me who, when they entered the online fandom and were exploring the different ships, found that the Azriel from the ship they weren't as into didn't match their interpretation of his character.

Like, for me, the one of the reasons I don't ship Gwynriel has nothing to do with Gwyn herself. It's because I just don't like Gwynriel Azriel. I don't care to read about a character like that and he doesn't match the Azriel I had in my head as I read the books. (although for the record, I'd still read the book. I just wouldn't be as excited about it)

However, I get that the opposite is true for a lot of people in this fandom. That's cool.

But that's all this is, guys. Like, do we really need to be assholes to each other about it?

#elriel #acotar #azriel #azriel shadowsinger #sjm #elain archeron #gwyneth berdara

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achaoticalien · 3 days

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#a court of thorns and roses #acotar #acotar au #acotar fanfiction #sjmaas #sjm #acowar #acomaf #acosf #nesta archeron #pro nesta archeron #eris vanserra #pro eris vanserra #a court of deceit and decay #acodad polls #the autumnn court

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oristian · 3 days

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LUCIEN VANSERRA | LORD OF FOXES 🦊

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acourtofmishapandmistakes · 3 days

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Cassian: *Running towards Nesta with open arms*

Nesta: *Moves out of the way*

Cassian: Hey! Why'd you move?

Nesta: I thought you were going to attack me.

Cassian: I was going to hug you!

Nesta: Why would you hug me?

Cassian: Why would I attack you?!

Rhys: Plenty of reasons.

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arson-09 · 5 hours

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thinking about the lost potential of feyre/rhysand mating bond but the plot is feyre deciding that FUCK the mating bond. she picked tamlin and no matter what hes who she wants to be with. Tamlin, despite his hate for rhysand is like no i mean, the bond :( and feyres just i WILL break this, my title isnt feyre cursebreaker for NOTHING. Rhysand actually continues to be a villain and no one gets character retconned

does anyone know a good fic with this concept/similar? i know im not the first to think of this

#acotar #pro tamlin #tamlin #a court of thorns and roses #sarah j maas #anti rhysand #rhysand #sjm #feyre #sjm critical #feylin #feylin fic #thry r so shhshshs im working on my acotar analysis and i keep finding little similarities between them #and it makes me ill they were so perfect together #im betting this or something similar was the og acomaf plot before sjm had an acid trip #anti feysand

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greenleaf777 · 4 hours

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The one single time Azriel has ever mentioned or even alluded to having a mate was his bonus chapter about wanting Elain, specifically, to be his mate.

Thats it. Thats the only time.

People act like he sits around the campfire with his brothers lamenting and writing songs about not having a mate. 🤣

#elriel #acotar #a court of thorns and roses #azriel #azriel x elain #elain archeron #acosf #elain x azriel #acowar #acomaf #a court of silver flames #azriel bonus chapter #sjm #sarah j maas

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popnovelspn · 2 days

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Friendly reminder:

Hunt looked a nurse dead in the eyes, with his back bleeding and a painful cringe on his face and said ‘I can still fuck though, right?’

And the nurse had to keep a straight face.

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i-only-see-daylight · 16 hours

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Elain, holding truthteller: I've got a weapon, and I'm... admittedly very afraid to use it!

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