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writingwithcolor · 1 month

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Sri Lankan Fairies and Senegalese Goddesses: Mixing Mythology as a Mixed Creator

[Note: this archive ask was submitted before the Masterpost rules took effect in 2023. The ask has been abridged for clarity.]

@reydjarinkenobi asked:

Hi, I’m half Sri Lankan/half white Australian, second gen immigrant though my mum moved when she was a kid. My main character for my story is a mixed demigod/fae. [...] Her bio mum is essentially a Scottish/Sri Lankan fairy and her other bio mum (goddess) is a goddess of my own creation, Nettamaar, who’s name is derived from [...] Wolof words [...]. The community of mages that she presided over is from the South Eastern region of Senegal [...] In the beginning years of European imperialism, the goddess basically protected them through magic and by blessing a set of triplets effectively cutting them off from the outside world for a few centuries [...] I was unable to find a goddess that fit the story I wanted to tell [...] and also couldn’t find much information on the internet for local gods, which is why I have created my own. I know that the gods in Hinduism do sort of fit into [the story] but my Sri Lankan side is Christian and I don’t feel comfortable representing the Hindu gods in the way that I will be this goddess [...]. I wanted to know if any aspect of the community’s history is problematic as well as if I should continue looking further to try and find an African deity that matched my narrative needs? I was also worried that having a mixed main character who’s specifically half black would present problems as I can’t truly understand the black experience. I plan on getting mixed and black sensitivity readers once I finish my drafts [...] I do take jabs at white supremacy and imperialism and I I am planning to reflect my feelings of growing up not immersed in your own culture and feeling overwhelmed with what you don’t know when you get older [...]. I’m sorry for the long ask but I don’t really have anyone to talk to about writing and I’m quite worried about my story coming across as insensitive or problematic because of cultural history that I am not educated enough in.

Reconciliation Requires Research

First off: how close is this world’s history to our own, omitting the magic? If you’re aiming for it to be essentially parallel, I would keep in mind that Senegal was affected by the spread of Islam before the Europeans arrived, and most people there are Muslim, albeit with Wolof and other influences.

About your Scottish/Sri Lankan fairy character: I’ll point you to this previous post on Magical humanoid worldbuilding, Desi fairies as well as this previous post on Characterization for South Asian-coded characters for some of our commentary on South Asian ‘fae’. Since she is also Scottish, the concept can tie back to the Celtic ideas of the fae.

However, reconciliation of both sides of her background can be tricky. Do you plan on including specific Sri Lankan mythos into her heritage? I would tread carefully with it, if you plan to do so. Not every polytheistic culture will have similar analogues that you can pull from.

To put it plainly, if you’re worried about not knowing enough of the cultural histories, seek out people who have those backgrounds and talk to them about it. Do your research thoroughly: find resources that come from those cultures and read carefully about the mythos that you plan to incorporate. Look for specificity when you reach out to sensitivity readers and try to find sources that go beyond a surface-level analysis of the cultures you’re looking to portray.

~ Abhaya

I see you are drawing on Gaelic lore for your storytelling. Abhaya has given you good links to discussions we’ve had at WWC and the potential blindspots in assuming, relative to monotheistic religions like Christianity, that all polytheistic and pluralistic lore is similar to Gaelic folklore. Fae are one kind of folklore. There are many others. Consider:

Is it compatible? Are Fae compatible with the Senegalese folklore you are utilizing?

Is it specific? What ethnic/religious groups in Senegal are you drawing from?

Is it suitable? Are there more appropriate cultures for the type of lore you wish to create?

Remember, Senegalese is a national designation, not an ethnic one, and certainly not a designation that will inform you with respect to religious traditions. But more importantly:

...Research Requires Reconciliation

My question is why choose Senegal when your own heritage offers so much room for exploration? This isn’t to say I believe a half Sri-Lankan person shouldn’t utilize Senegalese folklore in their coding or vice-versa, but, to put it bluntly, you don’t seem very comfortable with your heritage. Religions can change, but not everything cultural changes when this happens. I think your relationship with your mother’s side’s culture offers valuable insight to how to tackle the above, and I’ll explain why.

I myself am biracial and bicultural, and I had to know a lot about my own background before I was confident using other cultures in my writing. I had to understand my own identity—what elements from my background I wished to prioritize and what I wished to jettison. Only then was I able to think about how my work would resonate with a person from the relevant background, what to be mindful of, and where my blindspots would interfere.

I echo Abhaya’s recommendation for much, much more research, but also include my own personal recommendation for greater self-exploration. I strongly believe the better one knows oneself, the better they can create. It is presumptuous for me to assume, but your ask’s phrasing, the outlined plot and its themes all convey a lack of confidence in your mixed identity that may interfere with confidence when researching and world-building. I’m not saying give up on this story, but if anxiety on respectful representation is a large barrier for you at the moment, this story may be a good candidate for a personal project to keep to yourself until you feel more ready.

(See similar asker concerns here: Running Commentary: What is “ok to do” in Mixed-Culture Supernatural Fiction, here: Representing Biracial Black South American Experiences and here: Am I fetishizing my Japanese character?)

- Marika.

Start More Freely with Easy Mode

Question: Why not make a complete high-fantasy universe, with no need of establishing clear real-world parallels in the text? It gives you plenty of leg room to incorporate pluralistic, multicultural mythos + folklore into the same story without excessive sweating about historically accurate worldbuilding.

It's not a *foolproof* method; even subtly coded multicultural fantasy societies like Avatar or the Grishaverse exhibit certain harmful tropes. I also don't know if you are aiming for low vs high fantasy, or the degree of your reliance on real world culture / religion / identity cues.

But don't you think it's far easier for this fantasy project to not have the additional burden of historical accuracy in the worldbuilding? Not only because I agree with Mod Marika that perhaps you seem hesitant about the identity aspect, but because your WIP idea can include themes of othering and cultural belonging (and yes, even jabs at supremacist institutions) in an original fantasy universe too. I don't think I would mind if I saw a couple of cultural markers of a Mughal Era India-inspired society without getting a full rundown of their agricultural practices, social conventions and tax systems, lol.

Mod Abhaya has provided a few good resources about what *not* to do when drawing heavily from cultural coding. With that at hand, I don't think your project should be a problem if you simply make it an alternate universe like Etheria (She-Ra and the Princesses of Power), Inys (The Priory of the Orange Tree) or Earthsea (the Earthsea series, Ursula K. Le Guin). Mind you, we can trace the analogues to each universe, but there is a lot of freedom to maneuver as you wish when incorporating identities in original fantasy. And of course, multiple sensitivity readers are a must! Wishing you the best for the project.

- Mod Mimi

#asks #multiracial #multicultural #south asian #sri lankan #senegalese #west african #identity #representation #worldbuilding #fantasy #mythology #folklore #fairies #deities #adoption #identity issues #mixed experiences #coding

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whereserpentswalk · 7 days

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People don't realize how liminal it is to be a time traveler. How you don't ever really feel like you're in the time you are. Even when you're in your own time, everything is off, your coat was something you bought in interwar France, the book you're reading on the train is from a bookstore you had to visit in Victorian London, even your necklace was given to you by a Neolithic shaman, from a culture the rest of the world can never know. You find yourself acting strange even when in the present, much less in the past you have to work in.

You remember meeting a eunuch in 10th century China, and having him be one of the only people smart and observant enough to realize you were from a diffrent time. You could talk honestly with him, though still you couldn't reveal too much about your time. And it was still so strange hearing him talk casually about work and mention plotting assassinations. You're not allowed to but you still visit him sometimes.

You remember that the few times you were allowed to tell someone everything it was tragic. You knew a young woman who lived in Pompeii, who you had gotten close to, a few days before she would inevitably die. On your last day there you looked into her eyes, knowing soon they'd be stone and ash, that the beauty of her hair would be washed away by burning magma. And you hugged her, and told her that you wanted her to be safe, and told her she was wonderful and that you wanted her to be comfortable and happy. And you let her tongue know the joy of 21st century chocolate, and her eyes see the beauty of animation, knowing she deserved to have those joys, knowing it wouldn't matter soon. And you hugged her the last time, and told her she deserved happiness. And when you left without taking her it was like you were killing her yourself.

You want to take home everyone you're attached to. There's a college student you befriended in eighteen fifties Boston. And you can't help but see him try to solve problems you know humanity is centuries away from solving. And you just want to tell him. And it's not just that, the way he talked about the books and plays he likes, his sense of humor. There's so many people you want him to meet.

You feel the same way about a young woman you met on a viking age longship. She tells stories to her fellow warriors and traders, stories that will never fully get written down, stories that she tells so uniquely and so well. She has so many great ideas. You want so dearly to take her to somewhere she can share her stories, or where she can take classes with other writers, where she can be somewhere safe instead of being out at sea. She'll talk about wanting to be able to do something, or meet people, and you know you're so close to being able to take her, but you never can, unless she accidently finds out way too much then you can't.

You remember the longship that you met that young storyteller on. You were there before, two years ago for you, ten years later for the people on it. The young woman who told you stories wasn't there ten years later, you had been told why then but you only realize now, her uncle, who ran the ship, had been one of the first people to convert to Christianity in his nation. He killed her, either for not converting or for sleeping with women, you're not sure, but he killed her, and bragged about it when you met him ten years later.

You talk to the storyteller on the longship, ask her about the myths you're there to ask her about, the myths that she loves to tell. You look into her eyes knowing it's probably less then a year until her uncle takes her life. You ask her if you think that those who die of murder go to Valhalla. She tells you she hopes not, she doesn't see Valhalla as a gift but as a duty, she hopes for herself to go to Hel, where she wouldn't have to fight anymore. You slip and admit you're talking about her, telling her that you hope that's where she goes when she's killed. You hope to yourself you'll be forced to take her to the twenty first century, you're tempted even to make it worse, you want to have ruined her enough to be able to save her.

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yellosnacc · 7 months

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Have the uniima or slomen made any mythical creatures? What are they like?

While there are definitely many different mythological beings in the cultures of both, I really felt like showing the sloman equivalent of a dragon.

These beasts go far in sloman history. They can be even found in their cave paintings, often as 'hunting' targets of prehistoric slomen.

Because of how many cultures have named their own beings and how different they are among these cultures, I will not name them here.

You can encounter them in hundreds of legends/folktales with some regional quarks to each. Sometimes they fly, sometimes they lift mountains and shape the world, sometimes they suck people inside their bodies, teleporting them to strange locations (...), and other times they are simple monsters fought by sloman heroes.

Other places these beings are common in are regional flags, blazons of houses or families, house decor, weaponry, some religious imagery, and naturalist books (many groups believe they are real, same with thousands of other mythical beasts), etc.

Their form is not consistent. The number of "limbs" and "fingers" is an exception. Few cultures even depict them with full vertebrate bodies with the whole 4-limb piece being the creature's head.

#art #speculative biology #artists on tumblr #digital art #artwork #fantasy #worldbuilding #speculative evolution #speculative fiction #mythology #alien mythology #slomen #dragon #spec culture #sloman culture #ask #answers

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writingwithfolklore · 1 year

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Creating Mythology

I’m headed back to my folklore roots this week and talking about creating your own myth for your worldbuilding!

Mythology explains something otherwise unexplainable, whether that be a part of the world, a structure, or a part of the human experience. They are typically reflections of society in the time they were created that echo to the present--a foundation of a certain belief or custom. This can be a really intriguing way to bring readers into the history of your world—what will your myth say about the people of that time, what were they concerned about? What kinds of stories did they tell?

Myths are just stories with a simple theme. Remember that this thing is supposed to have lasted across time—when you’re retelling a really old story, how many specific details do you actually remember? Don’t try to fool us with a story that’s too in-depth. Mythological stories are about mortality, or the nature of mankind, the afterlife, religion. A theme your myth may have is: “humans were born from the sea” or “all mankind was originally kind”.

What does your myth explain about the world? Maybe it’s where humans came from, or where a certain religion, custom, ritual, or traditional practice originated, even where a revered creature originated, or where it went. If your world can’t explain something by science, the people in it would have tried to explain it through myth. What things need explaining?

To make your myth believable (or, believable to the world it’s in) we want it to be distant in the past. Think thousands of years old, or at least, no one alive today knew anyone who lived through that time. I would say a good three or four generations old is a convincing minimum for time to have passed, but myths can be (and often are) as old as the beginning of humanity itself. As well, it may be difficult to pin down exactly what time a myth was created.

Your myth should have characters—usually they’d be gods or beings with power over the world, but this isn’t necessary. Maybe your myth is about one really influential king, or just some person who caused a great deal of waves. Nevertheless, whoever they are, think of the impact time has over someone’s reputation. The older it is, the more revered these characters may be.

Lastly, think about how your myth impacts the present. What has the past gifted? What has been lost?

Here’s a good resource: Creating a Myth: 7 Tips for Building a Richer World - TCK Publishing

Good luck! Next we're covering legend and folklore <3

#writing #writers #writing tips #writing advice #writing inspiration #creative writing #writing community #books #film #filmmaking #screenwriting #novel writing #fanfiction #writeblr #creating mythology #myth #mythology #worldbuilding

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iguanodont · 11 months

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How do birgs stylize their artwork to make the subjects seems ‘divine’ or ‘angelic?’ Like how in earthen cultures, wings, halos, golden glows, and sometimes other animal features and extra limbs are added to make something seem ‘godly.’ What’s the birg equivalent to that?

Depends on the culture. The central Twowi religion believes all gods and spirits originate from an “inverted world” that hangs above the material world, and represents this by drawing divine entities with upside down faces. Perfectly round faces also invoke the forms of celestial bodies, considered the heads or eyes of these beings peering through the vaulted ceiling of the sky. Many satellites of the Twowi also use the upside-down head motif, but it is usually only a seasonal aspect of gods that change form and role with the shifting seasons.

Lower right depicts a “moon consort” priest, which I hope to expand on in its own post eventually. Their garb resembles the body of a black avian, and they serve as astrologers and guardians of hibernating clans.

The “centaur” god is a common and versatile figure in Kakroum belief systems, embodying strength, protection, and virility.

#ask #birgworld #mythology #worldbuilding #still figuring out a ‘style’ for Twowi art that I feel satisfied with #ok back to commissions now

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zal-cryptid · 10 days

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How long did it take for Santa and Krampus to go from enemies to lovers? And who initiated the polycule?

In my canon, Nick and Kramps first met in the Alps sometime around the turn of the second Millennium. Krampus was terrorizing a village one day, so some Christian converts called upon the Saint to come and protect the children from the demon. Krampus is technically a nature spirit, not a demon, and so Nick was having trouble figuring out how to stop the beast.

Fortunately, a young Befana was dispatched by Perchta to fetch Krampus and found the two duking it out in the town square. Thinking quickly, she created chains and shackles out of Nick's shadow, which he used to bind him successfully.

Perchta decided that it would be an apt punishment for Krampus to remain shackled to the Saint and be his twisted reflection. Krampus dispised his situation at first, expecting to be treated like some wild animal to be tamed or put on display. But Nick always treated him with respect. He always treated him like a fellow man. Perhaps it was Befana's mediation...perhaps it was Nick's "I could fix him" attitude...maybe it was even Krampus' "I could make him worse" attitude...but something eventually clicked between the three of them.

By the 14th-15th century, their love for each other became apparent. I think...I think Nick would have been the one to admit his feelings while Befana would have been the one to propose a polygamous relationship.

#ask #misfits in toyland #tales of the otherfolk #worldbuilding #lore #santa claus #krampus #befana #perchta #frau perchta #mrs. claus #st nicholas #frau holle #mythology #my art #sketches #comic #polyamory

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aroaceleovaldez · 1 year

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Not to get pedantic (oh who am i kidding that’s most of this blog) but I am genuinely fascinated by the potential applications of the established canon in HoO and TOA that the gods canonically have both historic and regional forms, and can appear as specific versions of those forms and have kids of those specific forms, which influence what powers the kid has/what pantheon they fall under/etc etc (and also the implication that demigods can be born under multiple forms of a singular deity). This is somewhat backed up even earlier in the first series when we’re told that Percy has earthquake powers because of his father being Poseidon “The Earthshaker” (which is Mycenaean Poseidon) - which could also tie into why Percy generally takes leadership roles, is hopping in and out of the Underworld a lot, and is apparently particularly powerful for even just a Big 3 kid, since all that would line up with Mycenaean Poseidon being generally put at the head of the pantheon and also being a chthonic deity.

Now this gets really interesting when we start looking at deities being combined and conflated, because a.) the Romans weren’t the only ones doing that and b.) the Romans had their own gods originally, they didn’t just take the Greek ones and slap a new name on them. They merged a lot with their own preexisting deities alongside adopting worship of deities from other cultures as the Romans spread (and the Greeks also did this), and c.) the ancient Greeks and Romans did exist at the same time.

Like, we know in terms of the Greeks and Romans that if their godly parents are “equivalent” then their demigod children are siblings, just like if Greek demigods have the “same” godly parent then they are also siblings. However, very few Greco-Roman gods are one-to-one, and a lot are like three gods in a trench coat, and then if you want to get into historical forms then you can start running into weird things like “Well, if you go back far enough, these two Greek gods may have originated from the same thing-” and also if we’re talking historical forms, again, the Greeks and Romans existed at the same time! Which means there would be historic forms of godly parents that are both Greek and Roman! So like, where do we go from there? Would Hazel be equally siblings to a child of Plutus as she is to Nico because both Hades and Plutus were conflated into Pluto? Orcus was also conflated with Pluto - does that mean when Nico killed Bryce Lawrence, he was killing his half-brother? (cause then that parallels just a couple chapters later when Will faces off against Octavian-) Are there demigods who, depending on their godly parents’ form(s), are technically both a Greek and Roman demigod? If Hermes and Pan possibly originated from the same god, does that mean all the satyrs are siblings with the Hermes kids? If we want to get into all the nonsense of Dionysus’ origins and Zagreus and Hades, does that mean Nico is technically siblings with Dionysus kids? Does Dionysus joke about this during their therapy sessions? Are some demigods in certain cabins siblings with kids in other cabins but each others’ siblings aren’t siblings depending on what form their godly parents were in?

I have a headache now.

#pjo #riordanverse #percy jackson #chb #camp halfblood #camp half-blood #camp jupiter #analysis #meta #Percy gets tagged for the fun random analysis interjection #listen i think too much about the worldbuilding and how it relates to historical mythology RICK YOU BROUGHT THIS UPON YOURSELF-#i hear ''yeah the gods can appear in historical and regional forms'' and i am already writing stuff about it you cant stop me #listen. there were city-states where the MAIN PANTHEON WAS TOTALLY DIFFERENT #i wanna hear about demigods whose parents are from a *different pantheon format* and how confused they get by the CHB format #also the potential humor of two demigods going ''well technically im your sibling but you're not my sibling'' ''what'' ''nevermind''#also how does deities adopting demigods play into this. how confusing does Jason's family tree get #is it different depending on what form(s) specifically he was adopted by?#also also also - you could totally argue based on linguistics and stuff that Nico 100% never lied to the Romans #(at least about being Greek vs Roman) but that can be a post for another time

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ryin-silverfish · 22 days

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Headcanon: Dragons of the Four Seas

(inspired by a recent discussion with @the-monkey-ruler)

-Although Chinese dragons are water deities, there are dragons who control stuff other than water: Cold Dragons under the Dragon King of the North can freeze stuff, and Bailong Ma used to be a Fire Dragon in pre-novel variants of JTTW.

"Wouldn't it be interesting if the four major lineage of dragons all have their unique side-power, apart from water and weather manipulation?"

-It starts off as this, then spins out of control and becomes one giant worldbuilding exercise.

East Sea:

-The eastern direction is traditionally associated with the Wood element. However, I feel like plant manipulation will be too obvious.

-So instead, they are the master of Thunder and Wind——the trigrams that represent these two things, Zhen and Xun, are both Wood-aligned.

-Their lightning has a notable azure hue, and have adapted the force of Thunder specifically for underwater usage, creating highly potent sonic blasts as well as what basically amount to a sonar spell.

-They kinda consider themselves the archetypal dragon, representative of their kind, and certainly have the attitude to match.

-Like, they claim to be descended from the Azure Dragon of the East, even though the idea that a Divine Beast of the Four Directions, stellar guardian of the entire eastern section of the sky, can reproduce is...dubious at best.

-Don't you mention the time Ao Guang got bullied by Wukong. Or Nezha. Or Huaguang. Or the Eight Immortals. They are very touchy about that. Violently touchy.

-They also have close relations with water-dwelling Yakshas, who act as a sort of elite mercenaries in their military campaigns against other seaborn demons and rogue flood dragons.

-Basically, the proud generals of dragonkind, with a vast weapon collection to match. The dragon king's family also name their kids after Celestial Stems and Earthly Branches, much like the ancient Shang dynasty rulers.

-The East Sea dragons are the only lineage who has an official representative of the Celestial Host stationed in their territory, who's only known by his title, the "Water-dividing General of the East Sea".

-He seems to be an older sort of god, the half-man, half-beast ones who look like they walk out of an illustration of the Book of Mountains and Seas.

-Most of the time, he takes the form of a seal, lounging around on rocks and watching sunrises, and has the personality of a sarcastic old man.

-Whether he's here to keep an eye on them, or they are supposed to keep an eye on him, no one can say. Ao Guang certainly treats him like an old acquaintance, though.

West Sea:

-They are a bit tricky. West is associated with Metal, and the two Metal-aligned trigrams, Qian and Dui, represent Heaven and Marsh...which don't neatly map onto weather and natural phenomena.

-Then I had an idea. What if they have a natural affinity for heavenly bodies? In ancient times, the movements of stars are believed to affect weather, after all, not to mention the sun and the moon.

-This affinity can be figurative——their lineage has a strong relationship with the stellar deities of the 28 Lunar Mansion and Dipper Mansion——or literal.

-Like a natural talent for divination and astrology, predicting the future from the patterns of stars. They are no governors of fate, unlike the actual Star Lords, they are just fate's weather forecast guy.

-This puts them in an awkward position, though: the stellar gods act according to the Jade Emperor's orders, some of which are very much secret and beyond their clearance levels, but the best scions of the West Sea can just infer it from the movement of stars alone.

-Which makes them obsessed with proving their loyalty, as well as enforcing a draconian standard of secrecy, just so they wouldn't get into trouble for knowing something they weren't supposed to know.

-Even more rarely, they can harness the power of astral light. Most of the time, such light is of lunar nature——Star Lord Taiyin also holds sway over the ocean's tides, though it is an easily forgotten power.

-But sometimes, that light comes from a fiery, lively, or ominous star, and the power that results is just as temperamental as their stellar origins.

-Enters Ao Lie, Third Prince of the West Sea, who has highly potent fire powers despite not being a South Sea dragon, and became the subject of some rather tasteless gossips about his parentage the moment it awakened.

-All dragons love their pearls: it's kinda like an ordinary yaoguai's "inner core", an orb of solidified Qi that can be spit out and store separately from the body, but much more powerful and culturally significant.

-Well, the West Sea dragons use their pearls in the same way a Feng Shui master uses their geomantic compass, or a Zhou Yi diviner, their turtle shell and copper coins. The ones left behind by venerable ancestors are especially treasured, believed to lead to clearer insights and more reliable readings.

-Through that lens, Ao Lie's burning of one such pearl is the equivalent of descrating the dead + destroying a priceless, irreplacable supercomputer.

-Intentional or not, to a lineage that is so serious about their discipline, taboos, and absolute loyalty to the Celestial Host, it is enough to warrant death.

-To no one's surprise, they are the diplomats, the inter-department coordinators when it comes to weatherly business. Not just between relevant celestial bureaus like the Thunder and Water Bureaus, but also between local dragon kings of rivers and lakes.

-As a result, the West Sea lineage is the most open to marrying non-oceanic dragons, even though these are often out of practical and political needs.

-That's my explanation for why, in JTTW, Ao Run's nine nephews either guard rivers or work for JE/the Buddha. The West Sea lineage has really turned nepotism into an art form.

North Sea:

-In JTTW, we know that they have Cold Dragons that can chill stuff. It is certainly not too much of a stretch to imagine them as the ice-and-snow specialists, the ones you summon when you are sick of the heat or need to insta-freeze something.

-Historically, the "North Sea" in Chinese texts refer to Lake Baikal. However, I think it is cooler if their palace is literally in the arctic zone, under the ice caps.

-Instead of garden-variety shrimp and crab soldiers, they have lots of cultivated marine mammals. And elite legions of belugas and narwhals and bowhead whales.

-The smallest and most isolationist lineage also carries the grimest duty, as border patrols and prison wardens. Not only is the North Sea a hotspot of rifts that lead to the Underworld, it also conceals the portal to the Evil-Vanquishing Mansion of the North Pole——realm of Emperor Zhenwu, Lord of the North.

-Kind of like the Lord Father of the East and Queen Mother of the West, he is the sovereign of the northern direction and the Water element, as well as the direct superior of Xuanwu, one of the Four Divine Beasts.

-And his job? Subduing demons. The Evil-Vanquishing Mansion is basically a fleet of giant, hollowed-out icebergs, packed to the brim with powerful demons, ghosts, and rogue immortals.

-Any prisoners that make an unlikely escape will emerge into the North Sea, where the vigilant army of the dragon king awaits. However, that is not their main duty; it is the Eye of the North Sea that they swear to eternally guard.

-And the prisoner of the Eye is none other than Shen Gongbao, the infamous traitor of the Chan Sect who was behind most major conflicts in the War of Investiture.

-It was said that, though his body was stuffed into the Eye of the North Sea as punishment, in the end, his soul still gets deified as a minor water god.

-However, if there is only a mindless body left in there, why the need for such heavy security? Only the most experienced elders and veterans are allowed to go into the Eye's vicinity to check on Yuanshi Tianzun's seals, and repeated visit by the same people is strictly prohibited.

-Perhaps, instead of a split of soul and body, deification has split the soul itself: one half is exorcised of all the undesirable qualities, the other left to stew and simmer in them until it mutates into something unrecognizable.

-Such is the rumor among the North Sea's younger scions. But folks will make up anything to pass the time in those long, cold arctic nights, and whatever the truth is, it doesn't matter, as long as the seal still holds.

South Sea:

-Their element, Fire, is directly opposite to the North Sea's; much like the Cold Dragons, the Fire Dragons of the South Sea are heat specialists, creators of droughts and wildfires as well as bringers of warm winds.

-And their fire is a peculiar variant of Earthly Fire. Unlike Heavenly Fires, which draw from the blaze of the Three-legged Sun Crow, or the True Fires immortals used in internal alchemy, Fire Dragons channel the power of earth's flaming veins: that is, undersea volcanos and thermal vents.

-Though they usually display their power in less flashy ways——steam clouds, a playful whiff of sulfur, a blast of warm wind on a winter night, a Fire Dragon fully on the offensive is just like a mini live volcano, unleashing streams of magma and scalding smoke clouds.

-When dragons are mentioned as one of the Eight Classes of Demigods in Buddhism, more often than not, they are from the South Sea lineage.

-Like, the most popular Bodhisattva in Asia, Guanyin, resides in the South Sea. It's all but granted that the local dragons would also be heavily influenced by Buddhist teachings, in the same way their northern kins are drawn to the entourage of Zhenwu.

-Fun fact: the imagery of dragons has appeared in Chinese art since the Neolithic period, but the specific worship of dragons as gods of the Four Seas is a result of Buddhist influence.

-Prior to that, the gods of the Four Seas in the Book of Mountains and Seas are all beasts with human faces, wearing snakes as earrings or standing on a snake.

-And in Sui-Tang era works, some variants merged the Four Seas gods with the Four Directions gods of ancient times, and said that the god of the South Sea was Zhurong.

-A.k.a. the fire god that defeated Gonggong (in the most well-known version of the tale), who, being the sore loser he is, went and knocked over the sky support pillar with his head. Thus, Nvwa's patching of the sky.

-Legends of the South Sea lineage claim that the Fire Dragons draw their power from Zhurong's embers, and their king is descended from the two dragon mounts of the primodial fire god.

-To the outrage of more traditionalist dragons, they often intermarry with Nagas, the serpentine water gods of the Western Lands. Guanyin's dragon girl attendant is born of one such union, between the Naga lord Sagara and a princess of the South Sea.

-Their palace is located inside an underwater volcano, said to be the remnant of Zhurong's great forge. Giant tube worm gardening is a popular hobby among the South Sea nobility; however peculiar it may appear to outsiders, these colorful creatures thrive in the union of Fire and Water, much like the lineage itself.

(Pictures of the Four Dragon Kings come from Nezha 1979.)

(The animated film makes the dragon king of the West a black dragon, and the North, a white one, a reversal of the colors traditionally associated with the two directions——West = White, North = Black.）

#journey to the west #investiture of the gods #chinese dragons #worldbuilding #chinese mythology #headcanon

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t34-mt · 9 months

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maanul folklore: mermaids

mermaids in maanuls ( or poaluk'nau in east, meaning: "one with sea") are not just them but with a fish tail, they're actually quite different from what most mermaid in human culture looks like.

they look like if maanuls went more aquatic, even having an operculum on the back like animals that went back to the sea. they have almost side eyes, a bottom lip (maanuls don't have that), and large palmed hands that are wonderful flippers underwater but on land make them clumsy and only able to wiggle around like a seal would. They own long muscular tails to help them swim, overall maanul mermaids look like them mixed with those strange whale ancestors. Most of the time they are said to be bigger than maanuls, other regions say they're the same size in length. While their size can vary in regions, the look is quite the same in all cultures meaning it's a shared representation that got spread among other maanuls tho the origin is vague, there's a possibility that it was from the south.

In tales, they can hold different roles, such as mysterious guardians in west, annoying but essential in the central north, tricksters and careless in the south, beasts of the ocean to scare kids from misbehaving in the north east and finally, in the east only one mermaid is present in the culture and its a sort of cursed person. now more onto each tale of every region in depth.

the word core will be mentioned a lot, core in maanuls means soul, they see their soul as a round ball that molts everytime they experience a grand event in their life.

Tales from the south: creatures of mischief

In the hottest region where maanuls live, Maanuls tell a story of a troublesome late teenager (18-19 in human years, that's still a minor in their species), whose love for mischief could not be matched by anything, except one, the ocean. The ocean was where they did all of their trickery, such as pulling people by their tail or legs in the water, swimming under canoe to then push them over, blowing water at people by their operculum, and so on. In the water is where they played, where they ate, they lived, they stood so much in the water that people were thinking it was a core of an aquatic animal born in the wrong body. they were like a child who never learned to grow up and have responsibilities, a child who never wanted to have responsibilities or care about what it meant to be a colony member. And what better place could there be to flee than the vast and infinite ocean.

So they prayed on a lone beach, they prayed day and night to the sea while the waves would caress their knees.

And the sea answered, by sending a large wave that came and wrapped around the maanul, absorbing them into the water to transport them back to the sandy beach. When the wave retreated from the black sand nothing was left of the maanul, except a large mass curled onto itself. The thing moved and tried to get up on its legs only to realize its long muscular legs were gone and replaced by short palmed feet, it noticed its tail being strong and muscular perfectly made to push itself in the water, its body was massive and heavy on land, its hands could hold anything anymore. They were now made to be within the waves. The now mermaid started to ungulate their body with little to no grace to produce forward movement, trying to claw the sand to reach the waves faster. Once in the ocean, without a look behind them they left everything they had behind to pursue a meaningless life of trickery. Never to be seen again as a maanul, the colony thought the ocean ate them.

In southern culture mermaids are seen as heartless people who left their family, their colony, and their responsibility behind to live a simple life of mischief. Causing trouble to maanuls' canoes, pushing fishermen to the water, and stealing their food because they are lazy beings. They are said to be previously people who don't care about anyone but their own short-term pleasure. mermaids are said to peak out the waves grinning before chewing on the side of boats.

And while for kids the idea of being a marine animal that plays nonstop can be tempting, parents remind them that mermaids don't care for their dead. Once they die as a mermaid no one will remember them and they will be left to be forgotten within the depths of the ocean mother, and without a proper mourning ceremony they cannot reincarnate and their cycle will end.

Tales from the west: the mysterious singing people

In the west, mermaids are seen as guardians of the sea who speak no words at the surface and choose to not interact with the people of the land.

They are said to have been born at night, out of the "tears" of joys of the first moon when she gave birth to its calf, the so-called "third moon". Each tear that fell into the salty water of the sea became round, resembling a fish egg except that it had no life inside. The eggs sunk into the depths of the sea. But the ocean took pity on those empty eggs that reached the bottom floor. By using cores of lost dead fishermen that haanu didn't pick up yet (she comes at sunrise), the ocean took those lost cores and blew the souls of those previously maanuls onto the empty eggs, making them hatch and reborn as new creatures, mermaids. The new mermaids were said to gracefully all reach for the surface, taking their first breath of fresh air in this new vessel. All gazed at the first moon and its calf for the first time, thus they were born from two mothers, the first moon and the sea.

But the way they were made prevents them from ever participating in the cycle of endless life and rebirth, they are said to be immortal to live along the ocean forever, and while at first it might be seen as nice to live forever, mermaids envy mortals as they can experience the ups and downs of life, learn to grow as an adult physically and mentally, and to laugh and cry. They are aware that they used to be maanuls, but are said to vaguely if don't remember anything from their past. They've forgotten their loved ones, they knew people cared for them at land but they don't know who did. They are sometimes upset that the sea locked them into this state, when upset they are said to be found laying on rocks and the beach like a large earth seal would.

Mermaids are said to sing to each other's underwater, they sometimes sing to comfort the ocean when one of the giant que'arsaeb descendent filter feeders dies. They protect the sea as its now their only home, they are said to jump out of the water and launch the canoe of fishermen who disrespect the sear, breaking their boat and leaving them to drown out of exhaustion. Mermaids are curious of boats and maanul activities, western fishermen think they are good and will always release one fish/crab/any other animal, they caught in from their stack as a treat for the mermaid. Aa they think said mermaid will accept the treat and follow their boat until they're back home and safe, if an accident happen they think the mermaid could bring them back to the beach safely.

In reality, it might be the works of a real-life intelligent marine animal that might bring them near home, but delusional from exhaustion the rare fishermen that are brought back near the beach by that animal will think its the mermaids from the folklore recusing them.

Tales from the central north: unpleasant but essential guardians

the central north believes that 10 mermaids came out of the depths of the world, made by the sea to be its guardian and to keep the ocean in order.

While they are essential to the sea, they are said to be quite unpleasant to meet. They are rude, love to steal food, bump into canoes regularly on purpose, and even splash fishing people with their strong tails or their operculum. It is even said that when they see a maanul hurt themselves on their boat or underwater, they will do a sort of cackle/laugh at maanuls. Mermaids are believed to be the ones who pick up lost jewelry at sea, never giving it back to the owner and keeping it to themselves, piling up their treasures in an underwater cave. That is why maanuls never swim with jewelry on, as they know that if they lose it underwater they'll never be able to find it again.

In reality, this might be the result of a type of crab that picks jewels to decorate its "nest" to attract potential partners, said nests when found by maanuls are then thought to be the mermaid's den. And it is said to be forbidden to pick back your jewelry in it, as it would anger the mermaid so much they might not do their duty anymore. When you lose something at sea, it now belongs to the sea.

Despite their many flaws, they are important and need to be here. As they torment the cores of horrible people till they rot. Central both believe that when haanu at sunrise picks up the core of every living being and throws them onto the world like seeds to reincarnate, she keeps the cores of maanuls who were horrible people in their lifetime in her arms. When she's done with her duty, she throws those maanul cores in the ocean. Mermaids are said to then come and pick them with their jaws, dragging them to the depths were even light cannot enter.

They stack the cores in piles in the abyss and push down any core that tries to rise up to the surface. The cores are kept in the abyss to rot, when they rot they become empty fish-egg-like spheres as the spirit of the person is gone and now forgotten by the world and by haanu.

Then the mermaids are said to hold those empty spheres in their jaws and blow life onto them, using those empty cores as eggs for their species to reproduce. The now eggs are taken care of by the mermaids until they hatch, so the firstly 10 mermaids of the world arent alone, it is said that there are thousands or mermaids roaming the sea, protecting and punishing anyone who would harm the ocean, and tormenting the cores of horrible people in the depths till they rot, till there is nothing left of their soul so they can never reincarnate.

To be considered a horrible person that will be dragged to the abyss you'd have to be terrible to other people, there are many tales that tell children that if they're uncaring with their peers they will end up like this. that they should not only care about everyone in the colony but other life forms and respect the way they are.

Tales from the north-east: Thieves of cores and children

Mermaid tales in the north-east speak about people, who never were mourned by anyone, who no one was there to remember them and sing their song cord. And without proper ceremony mourning maanuls cannot be reincarnated properly, their core were thrown in the ocean by haanu, but they couldn't get a new vessel.

So then their core rotted underwater, forming a black mucus around the core that then transformed into a strange oval fish-like egg. The egg hatches and gives birth to a mermaid, a beast filled with hate and jealousy towards living maanuls due to never being remembered when dead, being stuck in limbo they cannot ascend and join the cycle of death and rebirth, they cannot grow core-wise as they're consumed by hate of how no one remembered them. It leads to mermaids stealing floating cores in the ocean that were waiting to be picked by haanu, they steal and try to swallow them so they could replace their corrupted ones. As if they gain a normal core again they can die and go back to the cycle.

But it never works, and it frustrates them more. mermaids then try to harm living people to harvest their fresh core, as they're desperate to get out of this situation. Children are told to not swim in open sea since they're too young and it's way dangerous, they're told to stay at the reefs and closed lagoons, or else mermaids will grab them with their strong jaws by the tail or feet and drag them to the depths of the world as they desire to kill them and eat their core. They're told that only as teenagers, sub-adult and adults do mermaids not pick on them anymore because they're bigger now and have a stronger core that repels them.

To get out of this state of limbo, only a brave hunter can free them. It is said that they need to slay the beast while reciting a special prayer to truly kill and free the person. Before doing the final strike theywill ask the mermaid what was their name, when back on land the hunter and the colony would need make a mourning ceremony for that mermaid so they can finally be at peace.

Once done, they make a songcord for the mermaid to sing, they will remember the person at the colony so they do not feel lonely, so they do not feel abandoned by its peers like it previously did. Only then, can the rotten core as sea become clear again, free of its hate and out of limbo. At the next sunrise they will be picked by haanu and successfully reincarnated, being part of the death and rebirth cycle once more.

Tales from the east: Rejected by all but loved by one

The east does not see them as guardians as the role of ocean guardian is given to a giant "leviathan" worm. which you can see glimpses of in the chanter clothes of yarey'lu! i will not expand on it as this is a mermaid post, but here's every time the giant ocean worm appeared in this outfit.

The east takes inspiration from the south in terms of how it was created but has its own twist on it overall.

They believe in someone, named poaluk'nau, who loved the ocean so dearly that they wanted to be one with the sea, but still wished to be able to return and see their loved ones.

To the sea they then prayed, brought gifts and food in wooden bowls, and then curled up in front of their offerings asking their wishes to the ocean, to be blessed in a way that their body could tame the waves but still be able to be at land. The waves then came and gently reached to them, firstly to eat and take the offerings and take the gifts, but came back bigger to take and carry the maanul to the water. Engulfing them in its strong currents.

Several hours later, the waves came back to wash up a thing on the black warm sand. A strange enormous leather egg was laid by the sea, it stood still for several minutes. But then movement was seen inside, the egg twitched and suddenly a craw pierced it, creating an opening for the thing stuck inside, the thing slide out of the egg looking like a slimy fish at first. It took its first breath of air, breathing heavily as it realized its body felt heavier. They let their skin and the little amount of feathers they had dry up in the warmth of the sun. Until finally opening their eyes to see themselves, admiring and examining their new vessel, the ocean has rebirthed them to their wishes.

Content and joyful poaluk'nau thanked the sea, excited that their wish was exhausted it clumsily crawled and moved around on the beach like a seal would, searching for their family to show them their new body.

Upon reaching where the colony lived, they started calling for their family. But when said family came and saw poaluk'nau new look they were horrified, calling them a monstrous thing, a beast, crying at why they would choose to do such a thing. The mermaid's heart was shattered as they looked around to see that all the colony members had the same look in their eyes, terror, and disgust. They started throwing rocks, sticks, and even just went sand at them, telling them to go back to the water. Screaming at them to never come back to land.

Paoluk'nau started to ungulate their body clumsily towards the waves, screeching in pain as it was emotionally hurt by being rejected by their peers. No fate could be worse for a maanul than to be rejected by their family and the colony.

So to the waves they dived, they tried to find the ocean's heart for answers, they swam to ask it to change them back. But the ocean's heart was never found, a great sense of abandonment took over poaluk'nau who even felt rejected by the sea as it never spoke to them back again. they swam for day and night at sea, refusing to see land again out of shame and fear.

But on one stormy night, a fisher who couldn't come back in time was wiped by the waves, their canoe was broken, and the relentless waves didn't let them have a sip of air, they thought it was the end as they were sinking down being tormented by the ocean, the moon was barely visible underwater anymore. But the barely unconscious maanul was saved by a strange figure. They gently held them in their jaws, carrying them to the surface as it was swimming towards the far beach. It was poaluk'nau. To the beach, the fisher was carried, and placed on the sand. The mermaid stood against them, keeping the maanul warm for the night.

Only until the sunrise came that the fisher woke up, it was terrified at the sight of the creature next to them. Poaluk'nau started to crawl to the waves at they saw the fisher's eyes filled with the same terror its home colony had at them, but before they could reach the waves the fisher called. they asked for their name.

poaluk'nau was baffled but still answered them, the fisher then gave their name to the mermaid. Once again they asked something else: to meet again at the same spot. They said that if poaluk'nau didn't show up they wouldn't be mad at them, and that they would keep their name in their heart and remember them forever for saving their life. the next day both showed up, and the other, and the day after.

Every night the fisher would come at dawn because the mermaid was waiting for them, they'd stay together until padak rise up. They were great friends, and then developed greater feelings for each others. The fisher didn't care that others could deem poaluk'nau as monstrous, it was a person just like them, with feelings and dreams and the same state of mind. poaluk'nau vessel didn't matter, their core did.

Not handling being separated so much, the fisher asked their mermaid lover if the sea could turn them into one too, so they could be together forever. poaluk'nau said the ocean didn't speak to them since they were rebirth, but maybe if they found the ocean's heart they would be able to communicate to it directly. So to the waves the fisher followed the mermaid, to the water they swam together, searching for the ocean's heart.

Some tales say they found it but the ocean's voice was nowhere to be found, others say that they are still searching it together. It is believed that the fisher was unconsciously blessed by the sea, as they could swim as fast as their mermaid peer, as they could stay underwater as long as them, as they stood together in the endless sea as lovers for eternity.

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as you can tell in those several tales, the ocean is seen as a grand being, and while called a mother it truly has no gender it's an entity with feelings, sometimes gentle and merciful sometimes violent and uncaring. It can take back anyone to its depths as a payback to the resources maanuls take. They almost see it as when the ocean eats someone in its waves it does it to feed their hundreds of children's (the marine animals). Born out of haanu's blood, compared to her the ocean does take part in maanul's affairs. Haanu is grand and omniscient but she doesn't take part in people's lives other than reincarnating every living being that dies and keeping the delicate gears of the cycle of life functional.

reminder obviously, its all tales mermaids arent real in altuyur

Mermaids in kyhuine folklore?

there's none to be found! As kyhuines do not have bodies of water where they live, they don't even know what a fish was until first contact with maanuls in late AOS. The closest thing to a mermaid would be those intelligent sand worms that were once people but that's a streetch

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if you read all of this, thank you so much! took me several hours of my day cause i have a terrible attention span, i hope you enjoyed it. tell me what you thought of this id love to know! I'm literally dying after this

#mythology #folklore #xenofiction #digital art #my art #artists on tumblr #worldbuilding #speculative zoology #maanul #altuyur #2023 #txt #writing #alien #mermaid

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nazrigar · 1 month

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Pantheons - Zeus and the Ruling Family

A surprise Pantheons update! Featuring Zeus and his Olympians (specifically his wife and his brothers).

The theme for this year is Outremer's neighbours, and since Outremer is the biggest faction is the setting, they also share the most neighbours in the Milky Way Galaxy! The first faction of focus is Zeus and his Olympians.

Zeus is the king of the Olympian gods and the leader of the Greek Pantheon. When he was younger, he was much more impulsive and egotistical, more akin to the Zeus of popular perception of the old stories on Earth. Then he warred with Lucifer and his Angels three times and lost all of them.

After a bit of soul searching and some advice and listening to that advice from his family, he decided to try and be a better person, and try to mend strained relationships with his family, though if people needs a reminder he's STILL the law of the land, he's more than willing to show it!

If there's a problem that stumps him and his wife Hera, there's always good ol' reliable Athena to look to!

Hera is Queen of the Gods and Goddess of Marriage and Family. Much like Zeus, she's a much different goddess than the one who made Hercules' life miserable centuries ago. She know tries to use her position as a way to mend in-family conflicts AND those of her subjects.

It doesn't matter if a family is by blood, or found or from community, each one can appeal to Hera for help.

Poseidon is the god of the Sea and of Earthquakes. Big, Strong and Imposing, he feels like he's the only serious one in the family, now that everyone seems to be changing. He's the local curmudgeon who doesn't seem to like that the world around him is changing.

The gods are acting more like mortals in both personality and words. Perseus hooked up with MEDUSA of all people!

Hades is the god of the underworld, and doesn't talk or visits much, as he typically prefers to stay home, a subdimension that's part of a much larger extradimensional realm accessed only by death entities.

Despite this, he's very much enjoying the change he's seeing in his family, and feels more comfortable hanging out. If only Poseidon wasn't such a curmudgeon.

#pantheons #zeus #hera #hades #poseidon #greek mythology #character design #science fantasy #worldbuilding #fantasy worldbuilding #greek gods #my art #nazrigart

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wbqotd · 10 months

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Are there any stories, myths or superstitions about ships in your world?

#worldbuilding #world building #question of the day #writing prompt #mythology #belief systems #travel

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writingwithcolor · 9 months

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Running Commentary: What is “ok to do” in Mixed-Culture Supernatural Fiction?

Dear readers:

Today we are trying something new. To give you some insight into our process in the Japanese moderator section, we are presenting our response in the form of running commentary to show you how we dissect and answer long asks. We hope this makes clear what points are useful and not useful when sending us a query. As always, this is for learning purposes, not callouts. Be prepared: this is a long one.

To summarize: the asker is looking to create a comic drawn in Japanese manga style, and has provided a long summary of the story and worldbuilding which involves a mix of “reimagined” Japanese yokai mythos and cultural symbols from many other sources. They have questions with respect to cultural appropriation, coding etiquette, and “what is and isn’t ok.”

Opening Comments

I know a common advice when it comes to the thing I am about to ask is to talk to people involved in __, but I struggle with opening up to strangers for reasons I'm uncomfortable explaining.

Marika (M): This is already a red flag. If you want to engage with another culture without talking to people from that culture, then research is going to be very challenging. You won’t have members of that culture to guide you towards sources and perspectives they feel most accurately represents public opinion. If I were in your shoes, I might start with tackling my discomfort when engaging with other people, if only to improve my work. If you aren’t ready to engage with a culture and its people directly, then I think you should wait until you are.

I should note, reaching out to the Japanese mod team at WWC does count as engagement, but WWC should not and cannot be the only point of contact because there is no single, legitimate cultural perspective.

Rina (R): Also, you don’t need to “open up” to strangers or talk to them in person to get perspectives. Asking specific research questions anonymously to a forum or on social media requires very little vulnerability. You managed to do it here on WWC. So give it a try!

Anyway, my question basically amounts to the what is and isn't ok [sic] in terms of depicting fantasy creatures and concepts outside of their respective culture.

R: So, the reason why we turn away rubber stamp questions by that ask “is XYZ okay?” is because “okay” & “not okay” 1) is vague and 2) creates a dichotomy where there isn’t one.

When we say something is “not okay,” do we mean:

It’s offensive to the general majority of XYZ group?

It’s contentious among people who ID in the group?

It has a potential to be interpreted in a certain negative way, but may not be a red flag to everyone?

Insetad try asking:

What are the reasons this subject is offensive?

What makes cultural appropriation bad?

When might it be “okay” to intentionally discuss a difficult or controversial topic?

What is your reason for including something that may be interpreted as offensive and can it be sufficiently justified?

What stereotypes or tropes might it be consistently identified as or associated with, and why?

When might it be justified to bring up these tropes?

With That In Mind...

Let’s get into the rest of the ask below.

…a story I've been working on in recent times is largely inspired off the Japanese yokai, and the setting is basically Earth in the far future, as far as when the next supercontinent may form. These yokai, although portrayed differently here, do retain their main characteristics [...] Included in this world are two goddesses of my own creation, primarily representing the sun and the moon. [...] There will be thirteen nations, named and based after the Chinese Zodiac, and the life force found in the living things in this world, called qi, comes in two forms that are always opposing each other but can never fully overpower the other, this being based off yin and yang. They're even directly named this; yin qi and yang qi.

M: This reads more like using Japanese and Chinese culture for the “aesthetics”, not the cultures themselves, which I personally feel falls under cultural appropriation. From a world-building/ coding standpoint, the actual use of concepts is workable, and, dare I say, typical, given how Chinese cosmology influences Japanese culture. However, naming a concept “yin qi” or “yang qi” is the equivalent of naming something “- charge” or “+ charge”, respectively. That you don’t seem aware of this tells me you are pretty early in your research phase. In that vein, we’ve covered translating terms and names from foreign languages in fantasy before. See the following article linked here for our recommendation against using RL terms outright but instead encouraging people to create their own conlangs.

R: Worldbuilding-wise, I think you would have to figure out the chicken-or-egg of the zodiac nations. Did the nations come first, and the zodiac later as an origin folk story (which you would have to rewrite to serve the nation-building narrative)? Did the zodiac come first, and the nations named (most likely re-named) by a political entity? What is the justification? Otherwise, again, it’s a shoehorning of aesthetics.

There is also a third, lesser known god based off of fox spirits and trickery and I imagined he's the patron deity of a family that honors and worships him, but his influence on them has transformed them into Kitsune-tsuki, which I depict as fox-like anthros.

M: Not related to this ask directly, but I have jokingly ranted about how often non-Japanese people prefer using imagery related to kitsune-tsuki in Japanese coded world-building (link). This makes me feel the same level of petty irritation. See my troll answer below for a similar experience.

R: Same. It’s boring tbh.

M: Troll Answer: I get that kitsune-tsuki are very sexy furries, but Japanese folklore has other sexy furries too! These underrepresented demographics also deserve recognition and appreciation!!

The plot of the story is this; modernization has left the goddesses neglected of their worship and forgotten, something that is necessary in this world to stop them from fighting each other. The Moon Goddess awakens first, punishing the humans by unleashing the yokai. Then the Sun Goddess wakes up to fight in humanity's defense…

M: This could feel rather like Shinto-like coding (Ex. the myth of Amaterasu and the Cave, or Tsukuyomi slaying Ukemochi), but something about this scenario feels a bit too binary in terms of themes of good v. evil, light v. dark to be Shinto. The plot also feels more Gaelic/ Nordic in influence for me as a person raised in a Japanese Buddhist and Hindu household. I imagine this dissonance could have been fixed with better guided research.

…but their fighting has caused a perma-eclipse and this world is in danger of ending. The yokai have run rampant; some are loyal to the Moon Goddess, and some aren't, and it lies to the main characters to bring balance back to Midgard. Yeah... the name of this future Earth is Midgard. I debate changing it since it and some other things I will mention sorta feel out of place.

R: Marika, looks like you were right on the Gaelic/Nordic influence /j

Also, worldbuilding question: if the Earth is in the far geologic future, how long has it been since modernization (19th-20th century)? Centuries? Millennia? How long has this fighting gone on for? What triggered the perma-eclipse, and why now? Why is this time depth necessary?

One of the main characters in question is a humanoid woman with wolf features named Ling, and she is a descendant of the dynasty that had first ruled the one of the nations, particularly the one based off the dragon zodiac. She accidentally summons the other main character to this world as she's praying at a shrine, a humanoid with dragon features--I call them drakon--named Angelynn.

[on the names of characters] is it appropriating by not having the world entirely based on [Chinese, Japanese, and Indian] influence? it's a little weird to me how worldwide the creatures are referred to as yokai, implying a strong Japanese influence not unlike how it is today with Western culture being so dominant, yet there are still names like Keith and Kiara.

M: I will give you credit for recognizing you have unconsciously veered towards white-washing/ race-bending: either presenting European cultural influences (drakons, Angelynn, Keith, Kiara, Midgard) as default or utilizing general E. Asian cultural influences and aesthetics for a Western-style story (Ling, qi, Chinese zodiac, yokai). I agree with you that this creates a sense of cultural dissonance. At this point, I’d say you have a clear choice: write a Western-style high fantasy using a background with which you have more familiarity, or get some better guidance on research with East Asian cultures so you can code the story more effectively.

The focus of this story is centered around meeting all these yokai and showing that there's more nuance to them than Ling believes, all while saving the world. But I worry if I'm appropriating these concepts and creatures by 1, drawing from more than one culture--I initially imagined that there would be a mix of Chinese, Japanese and Indian influence because according to a website I am getting the info on yokai from, the yokai in question already draw inspiration from or have been based on something in Chinese mythology or Hinduism [...]

R: Sure, some yokai have Chinese or Hindu parallels as that tends to happen with folk tales. But not all–some are unique to Japan, and some are more modern. Sometimes it’s very political–some people consider the Ainu Korpokkur as being a “Yokai of Japan” despite it belonging to the indigenous culture. It’s up to you to research, untangle, and understand these influences.

The fact that you bring up that the Asian continent has seen a lot of cultural exchange is not a sufficient reason to randomly combine influences for the sake of visual appeal or “coolness.” That is appropriation. These influences must be understood in their historical context so that you know how/why certain things combined or morphed into another, and what makes sense to combine/morph.

M: This also indicates that the character views the yokai as evil/inherently bad, which I would argue is not a typical stance for much Japanese folklore. Again, this shows a deficit in research.

2, reimagining these yokai in a new context even though I have done the research on them, because one thing I kept seeing in regards to cultural appropriation is that it's bad to do that […]

R: Refer above to my note on “okay” and “not okay.” The thing with folklore and fairy tales is that every–and I mean every–folk tale is reinterpreted with every new iteration of it. Reimagining in a new context is what people do every time they pass on a story or tell a story with the same plot or characters. Do not think of folklore as an “original” that is altered and rebooted, but rather a living document that gets added to. Reimagining is not the inherent issue. HOW you reimagine something matters.

So I suppose my question is...if someone were to do research upon the creature they want to use, given they are allowed to use it, and gained an understanding of what the creature or concept stood for, are they allowed to pick it apart and reimagine it? Alternatively, is it ok if it's explicitly pointed out that it is derivative of the original?

It has actually become my biggest fear that I may have internalized something that could both continue to do harm long after the fact and attract the wrong people to me work. I don't wanna let people down!

M: As Rina has noted several times, I think the problem is in trying to ID a set of specific variables and circumstances that make a thing “okay” or “not okay.” I want to recommend that you read my joking response about writing in secret rooms while wearing a disguise (Linked here). Who can you hurt if no one knows what you are doing? There’s a difference between creating for oneself and creating to share.

You have internalized a message incorrectly, but not the one you cite. The goal of many recommendations against cultural appropriation is to avoid causing direct harm to people who have seen their cultures demeaned, discredited and devalued, especially in shared spaces. Assessing cultural engagement, whether we are talking about appropriation, appreciation or exchange is not a measure of personal virtue or a collection of commandment style do’s and don’t’s. Rather, I believe engaging with other cultures is the state of mind of acknowledging that when using these cultures’ in one’s own work, there is value in consulting members of that culture and giving credit where credit is due. This will be challenging if you are only comfortable engaging with all of these cultures in a distanced, minimal capacity.

FWIW, I’ve written stories that probably will offend people from other cultures and backgrounds, but I don’t show them off. I don’t think writing these makes me a bad person, but I also don’t see the need to give unnecessary offense, so those stories are just for me, to be written and read in my own secret room. However, I’m not ashamed of having written them, and I’m also comfortable to “let people down” provided that my own shared work reflects my personal principles of what I consider to be sufficient research and engagement with other cultures, As a creator, my work wouldn’t be mine if I didn’t first please myself. I think the trick to the creator role is deciding what to keep private, what to share and what constitutes sufficient engagement.

P.S.

We’ve referenced the need for research multiple times in this ask, and in some of the other asks that have gone up this week, so we thought this would be a good place to plug a beginner’s guide to academic research created by the mod team.. Look for it soon under WWC’s pinned posts!

#japanese #chinese #fantasy #cultural appropriation #coding #worldbuilding #names #mythology #folklore #fairy tales #asks #running commentary #writeblr

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